GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Harry on January 08, 2008, 01:08:57 AM

Title: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 08, 2008, 01:08:57 AM
Today I started with the first Organ box in the Landscapes series. MDG is running this series for a long time now, and great credit it is to them.
This one is from 1991, and coming from Mecklenburg.
Needless to say I acquired almost all their offerings, and this is the first one that has to undergo my scrutiny, lol.
What are your favourite recordings and recommendations, for I love the instrument dearly!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on January 08, 2008, 08:48:27 AM
What a coincidence, since I was just raving yesterday on the French Composers' Poll about the missing name of Louis Vierne and his six great Organ Symphonies.

C.M. Widor is also a good choice, not to mention Alexandre Guilmant: they all descend from the Franck school and know how to rattle the rose windows!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: hautbois on January 08, 2008, 11:04:54 AM
Durufle is a must! Though i adore Durufle's own recordings of his own works, i find that the organ benefits from digital sound a lot. There is a recording of Piet Kee playing various organ works in the Concertgebouw, and that is wonderful!

Howard
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: hautbois on January 08, 2008, 11:06:15 AM
Quote from: James on January 08, 2008, 11:04:25 AM
And the Helmut Walcha Organ Works DG boxed set (12 discs).
The complete Bach from Walcha is now available on a different label, 10 cds if memory serves me right, and ridiculously priced as well!

Howard
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: FideLeo on January 08, 2008, 11:13:05 PM
Quote from: hautbois on January 08, 2008, 11:06:15 AM
The complete Bach from Walcha is now available on a different label, 10 cds if memory serves me right, and ridiculously priced as well!

Howard

The 10 cd box contains mono recordings made in late 1940s-early 1950s.  The "original masters" version from Archiv itself certainly isn't ridiculously priced - you were probably looking at the  "documenta" version issued by Memoran (sp.?) which may or may not be an authorised reissue.

I will recommend the Francois Couperin Masses played by Pierre Bardon (Pierre Verany).  The historic (18th century) instrument at Saint-Maximin-en-Province is truly sensational - especially the crumhorn and bombarde stops whose combination simply sounds so French.   :D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 09, 2008, 03:17:03 AM
Organ Landscape Pomerania
Martin Rost Organ.
MDG. 3 cd's.
CD 1

Works by Buxtehude/Volckmar/Anonymus 1617/Fischer/Alberti/Anonymus 1650/Ritter/Schmugel/Wolff/CPE Bach/Hertel.

Organs played on: Stralsund/Griebenow/Wartin/Deyelsdorf/Zettemin/Rugenwalde/Gingst.

The second box in this MDG series, and every bit as exiting as the first. Not only many unknown composers, but also Organs of great renown, allthought not often used in recordings. Holger Schlegel, a topnotch engineer made fabulous registrations. I do not know who tuned all the instruments, but it is done to perfection. As are the performances by Martin Rost, this man is a giant amongst his peers.
I am really looking forward to all the boxes laying ready to be played.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 09, 2008, 03:45:20 AM
Theophil Andreas Volckmar (1686-1768)  names to remember in organ composition.
Johan Fischer (1646-1716)
Johann Friedrich Alberti (1642-1710)
Christian Ritter (1645-1725)
Johann Cristoph Schmugel (1727-1798)
Christian Michael Wolff (1709-1789)
All unknowm works for me, and unknown composers.
This series is a real treasure trove my friends.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 09, 2008, 04:25:06 AM
CPE Bach's piece "Aus der Tiefe rufe ich" is a masterwork, lasting only 5:07, but is a revelatory experience.....
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bassio on January 09, 2008, 12:58:14 PM
For Bach,

Peter Hurford's playing is crystal-clear. (though with an eccentric BWV565 .. what a let down)

I also heard the complete recordings by Walcha. I do not know how they compare to others though.

The Goldberg variations on organ will feel weird for a pianist like me.

Any thoughts on Saint-Saens "Organ" Symphony and the Albinoni Adagio for organ and strings, Frank's?
Any other hidden masterpieces?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 11, 2008, 05:00:04 AM
Organ Landscapes.
Pomerania.
Martin Rost, Organ.
CD 2.

Works by: Heinrich Scheidemann 1595-1663.
              Johann Martin Rubert 1615-1680.
              Dietrich Buxtehude 1637-1707.
              Christain Michael Wolff 1709-1789.
              Anton Ludwig Ernst Trutschel 1787-1869.
              Wilhelm Rudnick 1850-1927.
              Max Wagenknecht 1857-1922.
              Georg Scheel 1866-1945.
              Karl Kuhn 1851-1930.
              August Wilhelm Bach 1796-1869.

Organs:   Stolp (Slupsk)
              Saal.
              Gutzkow.
              Patzig.
              Belgard (Bialogard)
              Stolpmunde (Ustka)
              Kenz.

The second disc in this box wirh Organs from Pomerania, and every bit as successfull. Well recorded and perfectly tuned, a wide array of fine organ music is unfloding before your ears. The booklet contains all the stops and pictures of the organs in full color.

             
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Morigan on January 11, 2008, 08:21:33 AM
I can't seem to find a satisfying recording of Pachelbel's magnificat fugues... (now, wouldn't it be easier if I just wanted his go***mn canon in D?)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 11, 2008, 08:24:10 AM
Quote from: Morigan on January 11, 2008, 08:21:33 AM
I can't seem to find a satisfying recording of Pachelbel's magnificat fugues... (now, wouldn't it be easier if I just wanted his !!!!!!!!!! canon in D?)

We could do without the word, if you please my friend.... :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 13, 2008, 05:38:48 AM
Organ Landscape, "Pomerania".

Works from: Flugel/Zingel/Steinicke/Loewe/Grossmann/Sering/Voight/Wenzel/Wagner/ Sumnich/Hildebrandt/Wangemann/Hecht.

Organs from: Greifswald/Steglin/Stettin/Gristow/Koslin/Nehringen/Demmin.

Played by Martin Rost.

CD 3 from this fabulous box in this MDG series.
For me this has the highest marks. 

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 21, 2008, 02:40:17 AM
Organ Landscape Thuringia.

Works by Pachelbel/J.M. Bach/Walther/Heinrich Bach/JS Bach/JC Bach/JB Bach/Kellner/Krebs.

Played on the organs in Romhild/Ohrdruf/Klettbach/Neustadt/Orla/Kornhochheim/Eixleben/Altenburg,

Organs played by Michael Schonheit.

This starts with a fabulous piece by Pachelbel, the Praeludium in d, that amazed me no end, well written it is, very well written indeed, followed by Partita sopra by JM Bach, absolutely stunning in its conception. Imagine 3 discs full of such beauties, and you will understand my enthusiasm. It is a State of the Art recording, and is played by one of the greats in Germany Michael Schonheit, he does his name honour indeed.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Morigan on January 21, 2008, 05:39:08 AM
Great discovery Harry. I'm glad you enjoyed the Pachelbel. I think the time has come to resurrect his awesome work for the organ and to bury the canon. I'm alarmed by the lack of recordings for Mr. P. :(
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 23, 2008, 05:17:02 AM
Quote from: Morigan on January 21, 2008, 05:39:08 AM
Great discovery Harry. I'm glad you enjoyed the Pachelbel. I think the time has come to resurrect his awesome work for the organ and to bury the canon. I'm alarmed by the lack of recordings for Mr. P. :(

True, that is a omission in the recording repertoire. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 23, 2008, 05:26:41 AM
Organ Landscape Thuringa.

Works by: JS Bach/Walther/Vogler/Krebs/Kittel/Rinck/Liszt.

Played on the Organs in: Altenburg/Zella Mehlis, Ortstell Zella/Dornburg/Ohrdruf/Denstedt.

Organs used: Trost/Rossdorf/Rommel/Gerhardt/Ratzmann Brothers/ Peternell


Played by Michael Schonheit.

As Premont said the work by JS Bach, BWV 538 played on the Trost organ is fabulous, but I pretty much enjoyed all what's on this second disc from this box Thuringa. The sound is not so good as on the first disc, but still very good.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on January 31, 2008, 02:56:28 AM
Organ Landscape Thuringia.

Works by: Liszt/Brahms/Topfer/Reger/Keller/Seifert.

Organs from: Ronneburg/Koningsee/Erfurt/Ilmennau/Bad Salzungen.

Performed by Michael Schonheit.


Beautiful sound, played by a master on the organ. All finely tuned organs, with the added bonus of all composers.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on February 07, 2008, 02:33:02 AM
Organ Landscape Transylvania. (Rumania)

Organs from Sibiu/Brasov/Cisnadioara/Somartin/Alba Julia/Cisnadie/Codlea/Medias/Agirbiciu/Seleus.

Played by: Ursula Philippi & Eckart Schlandt.

Works by Paul Richter/Johann Leopold Bella/Rudolf Lassel/Girolamo Diruta/Valentin Greff Bakfark/Daniel Croner/Samuel Marckfelner/Waldemar von Baussern/Ernst Irtel/Hand Peter Turk/Tudor Ciortea.


Another fabulous release from MDG, it which is really nothing wrong. Thumbs up.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Wanderer on February 07, 2008, 02:36:15 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/5060113440310.jpg)

Has anyone heard this recording yet?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on February 24, 2008, 05:30:28 PM
I'm looking for a good recording of the organ music by Nicolaus Bruhns!
Any recommendations? :)

Some candidates I found at jpc:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/5400439002043.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0025091007028.jpg)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203712328.jpg) (http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/04/513204.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hxwfJ3h9L._SS500_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Don on February 24, 2008, 07:13:53 PM
The best Bruhns organ disc I know isn't all Bruhns - also has a few pieces of Hanff that are exceptional.  The disc is Loft Recordings 1012 and performed by William Porter on the Cathedral Organ at Roskilde; the organ was originally built in 1554 and sounds fantastic.  One of my treasured organ discs, and that includes Bach.  BUT, it might not be easy to find.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 06:54:27 AM
I've got a warm spot for Scheidemann's organ music.  Naxos recorded five volumes, vol. 2 by Karin Nelson being the gem of the cycle. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 07:06:49 AM
Another superb Scheidemann organ disc is played by Gwendolyn Toth on the Zefiro label - includes bird stops and some chant.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 02, 2009, 06:06:12 AM
I am just baffled by the fact that Stefan Bleicher has not recorded more organ works by Bach.  I have the following set, which is quite nice in my opinion.  But then I am no expert in Franz Liszt.  Isn't he supposed to be one of the promising younger-generation German organists?


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WP2pujjhL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 02, 2009, 08:57:19 AM
Organ lovers have been talking a lot about the compositions of J.S. Bach, and the various interpreters.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,638.0.html

Let's talk about others & their compositions, too, as well as recordings of their work!
Of course it's allowed to talk about Bach. His work might be well suited for making comparisons. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: 71 dB on May 02, 2009, 12:02:04 PM
CPO label has a wonderful ongoing series of North German Baroque organ works played by Friedhelm Flamme. I have the first 2 volumes consisting works by Nicolaus Bruhns, Georg Dietrich Leyding and Vincent Lübeck. I am waiting for the 3rd volume (Johann Adam Reincken, Andreas Kneller, Christian Geist) to arrive.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 02, 2009, 12:37:31 PM
Nicholas Bruhns composed some nice organ works and I have the following SACD.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/611CHSA105L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 02, 2009, 01:09:53 PM
It's gonna be a CPO thread! ::)

I recently bought the complete organ works of Franz Tunder and Nicolaus Hasse. I think it's part of the Northern German Baroque Organ Works series, mentioned by 71dB:

(http://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/69/1065769.jpg)

But I'm also happy with a Pachelbel CD of the series Süddeutsche Orgelmeister, a production of Oehms Classics.

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/102/1020032.jpg)

I think I'm falling in love with the German organ tradition. Alas, nowadays every love one holds costs money. :'(
Nevertheless: I'll keep your advices in mind!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 02, 2009, 01:19:09 PM
Quote from: Don on February 24, 2008, 07:13:53 PM
The best Bruhns organ disc I know isn't all Bruhns - also has a few pieces of Hanff that are exceptional.  The disc is Loft Recordings 1012 and performed by William Porter on the Cathedral Organ at Roskilde; the organ was originally built in 1554 and sounds fantastic.  One of my treasured organ discs, and that includes Bach.  BUT, it might not be easy to find.

And I missed the chance to visit the Roskilde Cathedral back in spring of 94 when I visited Copenhagen.     :(
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on May 02, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
I've merged with an earlier thread, started by Harry. I do hope nobody is going to be upset or anything... :-X

An excellent idea to revive the organ discussion beyond Bach! :)
I'll follow this thread will interest, perhaps someone will have the answer to my earlier question on comparisons between the various Bruhns recordings?

I'd like to point out that besides the Bach thread there is also a separate (and interesting) thread on Buxtehude (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3769.0.html).

Q

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 02, 2009, 01:48:06 PM
NO!!!!

IT WAS MY IDEA!!!!

O, my mistake. Sorry, Harry.

........

Yeah, thanks Que, for merging the threads. :)
I still consider myself an organ rookie, and probably will be attached to Bach for a while. Hopefully this thread will be filled with interesting posts by organ lovers, from Heinrich Scheidemann up to Messiaen (and the rest).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on May 02, 2009, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Marc on May 02, 2009, 01:48:06 PM

I still consider myself an organ rookie, and probably will be attached to Bach for a while. Hopefully this thread will be filled with interesting posts by organ lovers, from Heinrich Scheidemann up to Messiaen (and the rest).

Well, it seems that we Dutch have a thing with organs.... ;D

And luckily we have plenty of superb instruments around! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on May 02, 2009, 01:58:17 PM
Wonderful, this thread revived. That makes me happy.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 05, 2009, 05:26:30 AM
Quote from: Que on May 02, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
I'll follow this thread will interest, perhaps someone will have the answer to my earlier question on comparisons between the various Bruhns recordings?

Que, I only have the recordings of Helmut Winter on the Coci/Klapmeyer organ at the St. Nicolaskirche in Altenbruch, Germany. I like them a lot, but I can't compare them to others.

BTW, Winter also plays works of Pachelbel on that disc.
Here's the playlist:
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu1230.htm

If you're interested, these recordings were recollected in a 6cd-box set by Harmonia Mundi France, entitled Les Orgues Historiques: labelnumber 2901225.30. I'm not sure if these recordings are still available, though.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 05:51:15 AM
These are all the CD's I have on Bruhns' organ works with the respective labels indicated.  The big boys like the DG and Philips are nowhere to be found ...

Bruhns   Organ Works                Winter/Organ       Harmonia
   Organ Works                Christensen (SACD)   ARSIS
   Complete Organ Works   Flamme (SACD)       CPO

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 05, 2009, 08:23:06 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 05:51:15 AM
These are all the CD's I have on Bruhns' organ works with the respective labels indicated.  The big boys like the DG and Philips are nowhere to be found ...

Bruhns   Organ Works                Winter/Organ       Harmonia
   Organ Works                Christensen (SACD)   ARSIS
   Complete Organ Works   Flamme (SACD)       CPO

And what can you tell us about your personal preferences, in terms of both interpretation and recording sound?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 09:12:06 AM
Quote from: Marc on May 05, 2009, 08:23:06 AM
And what can you tell us about your personal preferences, in terms of both interpretation and recording sound?

I have not played any of these CD's in a while.  My initial impression of Bruhns' organ works was, wow, this fellow composed some nice organ works.  I will have to re-listen to these CD's before I can make any comments ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: 71 dB on May 05, 2009, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 09:12:06 AM
I have not played any of these CD's in a while.  My initial impression of Bruhns' organ works was, wow, this fellow composed some nice organ works.  I will have to re-listen to these CD's before I can make any comments ...

Nicolaus Bruhns was extremely talented but sadly died at age 32. What's worse, most of his music is lost. The cpo SACD is a no-brainer but there is also a brilliant disc of Bruhns' organ works (+3 cantatas) on Tempéraments label (Jan Willem Jansen/Le Parlement de Musique/Martin Gester).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 05, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 05, 2009, 09:58:16 AM
Nicolaus Bruhns was extremely talented but sadly died at age 32. What's worse, most of his music is lost.

Yes, too bad, I listen to his organ music with great pleasure.
I do recall that, after listening to the Helmut Winter recording and after reading Bruhns' biography (being a violin & organ virtuoso), for a moment I thought: well, could he be the composer of Bach's BWV 565? :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
Quote from: Marc on May 05, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
Yes, too bad, I listen to his organ music with great pleasure.
I do recall that, after listening to the Helmut Winter recording and after reading Bruhns' biography (being a violin & organ virtuoso), for a moment I thought: well, could he be the composer of Bach's BWV 565? :)

But there is no dispute as to the exact nationality of Bruhns as compared with Buxtehude.  Bruhns was 100% Danish without a doubt ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 05, 2009, 12:04:46 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
But there is no dispute as to the exact nationality of Bruhns as compared with Buxtehude.  Bruhns was 100% Danish without a doubt ...

I have doubts.  Bruhns was born and died in Germany.  He did have a post in Copenhagen, but I don't know its duration.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 12:10:19 PM
Just dug up this Chandos CD to play.  The Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland by Bruhns is quite nice.  The first movement and the last movement are each preceded by some lovely soprano singing.  It was this CD that first introduced me to the artistry of Nicholaus Bruhns.  This CD is OOP but is available as used on Amazon ranging in price from $53 to $120 ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41P98EQ6BFL._SS400_.jpg)

Unfortunately, the track information is not too sharp and I am too lazy to take my own picture of the CD jacket ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410hStNwhBL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 05, 2009, 12:37:47 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 12:10:19 PM
Just dug up this Chandos CD to play.  The Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland by Bruhns is quite nice.  The first movement and the last movement are each preceded by some lovely soprano singing.  It was this CD that first introduced me to the artistry of Nicholaus Bruhns.  This CD is OOP but is available as used on Amazon ranging in price from $53 to $120 ...

I wonder why those Amazon crooks think they can sell the disc for such a ridiculous price.  Although I don't personally own it, I can listen to it all day long on the Naxos Music Library site.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 05, 2009, 01:52:37 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 05:51:15 AM

Bruhns   Organ Works      Christensen (SACD)   ARSIS
   

Which Christensen?? Jens E Christensen??
Do you know a link to this recording?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 05, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: Que on February 24, 2008, 05:30:28 PM
I'm looking for a good recording of the organ music by Nicolaus Bruhns!
Any recommendations? :)

I own all these (and the P Kee) except the Foccroulle, which is on my wish-list.

Listened to day to the Bruhns / Ghielmi and was not impressed. Most of the playing sounds stiff and unengaged in these ears, and this Ahrend organ in Milano strikes me not as being the best suited medium for this music.
I can listen to the others in the run of the week.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: premont on May 05, 2009, 01:52:37 PM
Which Christensen?? Jens E Christensen??
Do you know a link to this recording?
Thanks in advance.

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/59/595281.jpg)

Amazon does not have a photo ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: drogulus on May 05, 2009, 02:17:44 PM


     This is from Resonance Records, a download from HDTracks:

     (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4734/frenchorganmasterworks.jpg)

     Grison, Jules : Toccata for Organ in F major

     Maurice Duruflé (1902 - 1986) : Scherzo for Organ, Op. 2

     Guilmant, Felix Alexandre : Sonata for Organ no 5 in C minor, Op. 80
     Scherzo

     Maurice Duruflé (1902 - 1986) : Méditation for Organ

     Gabriel Pierné (1863 - 1937) : Pieces (3) for Organ, Op. 29
     no 3, Concert Scherzando

     Samuel-Rousseau, Marcel : Scherzo for Organ

     Jongen, Joseph : Scherzetto for Organ, Op. 108

     Alain, Jehan-Ariste : Choral phrygien for Organ, AWV 76

     Bonnet, Joseph : Pieces (12) for Organ, Op. 5
     no 3, Toccata

     Guilmant, Felix Alexandre : Sonata for Organ no 8 in A major, Op. 91
     Scherzo

     Alain, Jehan-Ariste : Choral dorien for Organ, AWV 75

     Widor, Charles-Marie : Symphony for Organ no 5 in F minor, Op. 42 no 1
     5th movement, Toccata

     Widor, Charles-Marie : Symphony for Organ no 4 in F major, Op. 13 no 4
     4th movement, Scherzo

     D'Indy, Vincent : Prelude for Organ in B minor, Op. 66

     Vierne, Louis : Pièces de fantaisie - Suite no 3, Op. 54
     2nd movement, Impromptu

     Widor, Charles-Marie : Symphony for Organ no 8 in B flat major, Op. 42 no 4
     Finale

     
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on May 05, 2009, 03:36:09 PM
Quote from: premont on May 05, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
I own all these (and the P Kee) except the Foccroulle, which is on my wish-list.

Wow! :) Didn't expect anyone to have (almost) all of them, not even you!  :o   ;D


QuoteListened to day to the Bruhns / Ghielmi and was not impressed. Most of the playing sounds stiff and unengaged in these ears, and this Ahrend organ in Milano strikes me not as being the best suited medium for this music.

Now there is a slight surprise, just listened to his Bach/Brahms disc, with Bach played on the same organ, and kind of liked it! :)  But then Bach and Bruhms are different composers...

QuoteI can listen to the others in the run of the week.

Any impressions you could share wil be appreciated! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 05, 2009, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 05, 2009, 12:04:46 PM
I have doubts.  Bruhns was born and died in Germany.  He did have a post in Copenhagen, but I don't know its duration.

He was German indeed, AFAIK. Born in Schleswig-Holstein, son of organist Paul Bruhns. Pupil of Buxtehude, who helped him to get the job at the Copenhagen Court. Buxtehude was Danish, but some scholars think he was (like Bruhns) born in Schleswig-Holstein (Oldesloe). Anyway, his roots may have been German, since there is a town near Hamburg called Buxtehude.

Quote from: premont on May 05, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
I own all these (and the P Kee) except the Foccroulle, which is on my wish-list.

Please give us a list of baroque organ cd's you don't own. :D

Quote from: Que on May 05, 2009, 03:36:09 PM
Wow! :) Didn't expect anyone to have (almost) all of them, not even you!  :o   ;D

A shameful example of underestimation! ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 06, 2009, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: Marc on May 05, 2009, 09:44:00 PM

Please give us a list of baroque organ cd's you don't own. :D


Well, I must say, that I am beginning to loose track of things. Actually I just realised that I do not - to my surprise - own the Bruhns / Flamme CD, but  I am going to acquire it with my next order together with his Tunder CDs from CPO.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 06, 2009, 05:13:46 PM
Quote from: premont on May 06, 2009, 11:34:46 AM
Well, I must say, that I am beginning to loose track of things. Actually I just realised that I do not - to my surprise - own the Bruhns / Flamme CD, but  I am going to acquire it with my next order together with his Tunder CDs from CPO.

I bet I may have some obscure organ works CD's (not necessarily Bach) you do not have, even though I am no nut of organ recordings.  I currently have only 6 complete sets and have no intention of getting more than another set or two (one of them must be the third cycle by Marie-Claire Alain).  I think my Bach organ works collection is quite balanced considering that I have 1000+ LP's/CD's on various works of Bach ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 07, 2009, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 06, 2009, 05:13:46 PM
I bet I may have some obscure organ works CD's (not necessarily Bach) you do not have, even though I am no nut of organ recordings. 

Of course you have, and probably quite a lot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 06, 2009, 05:13:46 PM
I think my Bach organ works collection is quite balanced considering that I have 1000+ LP's/CD's on various works of Bach ...

Of course.  Each of us thinks our collections are balanced based on our respective preferences.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 05, 2009, 12:10:19 PM
Just dug up this Chandos CD to play. 

Do you grow CDs in your backyard?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 07, 2009, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
Do you grow CDs in your backyard?

These are the CD's on organ works that came into my collection mainly in the late 80's and early 90's that generally have few or no works by Bach ...

North German Organ Music   Leonhardt/Organ   SONY
Early English Organ Music   Preston/Pinnock   Archive
Early English Organ Music, Vol. 1   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
Early English Organ Music, Vol. 2   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
Early French Organ Music, Vol. 2   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
Great European Organs No. 10   John/Organ   Priory
Two Mander Organs   Page/Organ   Priory
German Organ Music Vol 1   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
German Organ Music Vol 2   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
Du Mage, Bach, Franck & Widor   Brandstetter   Thorofon
Organ Music in France & S. Netherlands   Leonhardt/Organ   SONY
A Treasury of English Organ Music   Phillips/Organ   Impressions
Orgues D'lle-de-France/Volume 1   Alain/Escaich   Chamade
Orgues D'lle-de-France/Volume 2   Jansen/Bouvard   Chamade
Piet Kee at Weingarten   Kee/Organ   Chandos
The Arp Schnitger Organ   Leonhardt/Organ   SONY
Historic Organs of Austria   Leonhardt/Organ   SONY
The Organ Encyclopedia Vol 1   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
The Organ Encyclopedia Vol 2   Payne/Organ   NAXOS
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 07, 2009, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Of course.  Each of us thinks our collections are balanced based on our respective preferences.

Not true.  A Bach collection which is made up of 80% of organ works cannot be considered balanced.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 05:21:38 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 07, 2009, 05:00:27 PM
Not true.  A Bach collection which is made up of 80% of organ works cannot be considered balanced.

It can be considered balanced by the person owning the collection.  For example, 50% of the organ collection is on historical organs.

This is nuts - screw balance.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 07, 2009, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 07, 2009, 05:21:38 PM
It can be considered balanced by the person owning the collection.  For example, 50% of the organ collection is on historical organs.

This is nuts - screw balance.

This is new math ...   ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 08, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 07, 2009, 05:00:27 PM
Not true.  A Bach collection which is made up of 80% of organ works cannot be considered balanced.

You seem to think, that mine is, but the share of organ works is far less.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 08, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: premont on May 08, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
You seem to think, that mine is, but the share of organ works is far less.

I just cited some number as an example.  I have no idea about the size of your collection.  I imagine if you have 30 Bach Organ Works (at average of 15 CD's per set) sets and you have 15,000 CD's, your collection is still well balanced. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 08, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 08, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
 

I just cited some number as an example.  I have no idea about the size of your collection.  I imagine if you have 30 Bach Organ Works (at average of 15 CD's per set) sets and you have 15,000 CD's, your collection is still well balanced. 

The correct number is probably about 4000, and ca 20% Bach organ music.

But who decides whether a collection is well balanced or not? Romantic and modern music e.g. is as well as unrepresented in my collection.  Never-the-less the collection is well balanced as to my interests.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 08, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
Quote from: premont on May 08, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
The correct number is probably about 4000, and ca 20% Bach organ music.

But who decides whether a collection is well balanced or not? Romantic and modern music e.g. is as well as unrepresented in my collection.  Never-the-less the collection is well balanced as to my interests.

I am a mathematician by training.  As such, I view my 7000+ LP's/CD's/tapes in classical music from this standpoint, i.e. if my collection is balanced.  I am also an avid investor and pretty much follow the same philosophy in that area as well.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 08, 2009, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: premont on May 08, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
The correct number is probably about 4000, and ca 20% Bach organ music.

Never-the-less the collection is well balanced as to my interests.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 12, 2009, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 08, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
I am a mathematician by training.  As such, I view my 7000+ LP's/CD's/tapes in classical music from this standpoint, i.e. if my collection is balanced. 

Right, but you're the one making the "balance" decision.  Another person might consider your collection skewed.  All I'm getting at is that balance of a record collection is very subjective except for my own collection which is a marvel of equilibrium. 8)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 12, 2009, 04:32:36 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 12, 2009, 04:00:45 PM
Right, but you're the one making the "balance" decision.  Another person might consider your collection skewed.  All I'm getting at is that balance of a record collection is very subjective except for my own collection which is a marvel of equilibrium. 8)

No way in hell my collection can be considered skewed by any fair-minded person since my collection starts with the Renaissance and ends with composers like Sibelius (the very late romantic).  There are 800+ CD's/LP's on piano works alone and a nice collection of operas ... 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 12, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 12, 2009, 04:32:36 PM
No way in hell my collection can be considered skewed by any fair-minded person since my collection starts with the Renaissance and ends with composers like Sibelius (the very late romantic). 

Sounds like you don't have anything from the last 80 years or so - you're skewed. :D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 12, 2009, 06:54:13 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 12, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Sounds like you don't have anything from the last 80 years or so - you're skewed. :D

Buddy, get that calculator out.  Sibelius lived till 1957 ...   ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 12, 2009, 07:05:53 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 12, 2009, 06:54:13 PM
Buddy, get that calculator out.  Sibelius lived till 1957 ...   ;D

Tell me about all the music he composed after the 1920's.  Sorry, but you have a "black hole" in your collection that will only deepen as time moves on.

Of course, I'm only teasing.  I have a bunch of black holes and feel fine about it.  My collection only goes back to 1500, and I have just a small amount of modern music (composers currently alive). 

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: snyprrr on May 16, 2009, 02:50:05 PM
Judging by all your arguing, MY collection is the most balanced, ha!!!

Anyhow, this was the ORGAN thread, right? $:)

I'm curious. I enjoy some of the slightly un-spectacular modern works, the mellower majors, such as Frank Martin's "Passacaglia." Any cds of nice, maybe slightly anonymous sounding, misterioso-type early to mid century organ works of this type? I have the Hindemith which I like a whole lot, but all my other organ cds have either flute, horn, or trumpet. Any major trombone+organ works? I know there's a bunch of cds with that combo. I do prefer the more meditative organ works...though nothing contemporary/new age-y.

And yes, I used to have most of the Hurford/Bach set. Probably had to sell at the time for $$$. Chorale preludes, yea!
I even went down the Messiaen/Bates road, but he seems to spectacular/langorous for me. What are his mellowest works here?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on May 16, 2009, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2009, 02:50:05 PM
Judging by all your arguing, MY collection is the most balanced, ha!!!

You've convinced me, so you win the recognition of having the most balanced classical music collection of all board members.  And little did you know, you have also been cited as the most emotionally balanced person on the board.  8)

With two awards in one day, I'm sure you're elated.  An acceptance speech would not be out of order. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: FideLeo on May 16, 2009, 11:38:29 PM
Black holes suck - organ pipes blow  ;D

currently listening:

(http://www.die-orgelseite.de/cds/SaintMaximinEnProvence_Bardon.jpg)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: springrite on May 31, 2009, 08:52:41 PM
In my collection of 3000 or so, organ is probably the least represented, in that I only have obligatorily collected 2 Bach organ CDs, one Franck, one Widor, one Liszt, two Messiaen, one modern compilation (Ligeti, etc.) and a few odd organ symphonies, none of which I listened to much if at all. Soon I will be listened to them with a bit more attention and see if I can get into them and maybe add to my collection.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: FideLeo on May 31, 2009, 08:54:03 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518lF7HcaKL._SS500_.jpg)

Organists are often not very insistent on HIP when it comes to instruments of choice, maybe because the programme at hand can be too mixed anyway.  Rene Saorgin records 16th and 17th century organ music (from all over Europe) on a 19th-century Piedmontese organ in a French church.  :D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 09, 2009, 01:05:41 AM
Radio archive of a Dutch broadcast corporation:

http://orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=jlvbuCsHtGAkBbC

Yes, the language is Dutch, but on the right one can quite easily select:
- Organisten (organists)
- Orgels (organs)
- Componisten (composers).

Just give it a try, every week a new concert from the past is added to this interesting archive.
Right now I'm listening to Bach's Prelude & fugue in E minor BWV 548, played by Johan Beeftink, on the Schnitger organ of the Der Aa-kerk in Groningen, NL. What an amazing instrument this is! Still in repair though, hopefully there will be concerts again on this organ from appr. 2011 or 2012.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on August 09, 2009, 02:57:12 AM
Quote from: Marc on August 09, 2009, 01:05:41 AM
Radio archive of a Dutch broadcast corporation:

http://orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=jlvbuCsHtGAkBbC

Yes, the language is Dutch, but on the right one can quite easily select:
- Organisten (organists)
- Orgels (organs)
- Componisten (composers).

Just give it a try, every week a new concert from the past is added to this interesting archive.
Right now I'm listening to Bach's Prelude & fugue in E minor BWV 548, played by Johan Beeftink, on the Schnitger organ of the Der Aa-kerk in Groningen, NL. What an amazing instrument this is! Still in repair though, hopefully there will be concerts again on this organ from appr. 2011 or 2012.

Thanks a lot! :)

[Frescobaldi - Canzona Quarta - de Rooij]
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 09, 2009, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: Marc on August 09, 2009, 01:05:41 AM
Radio archive of a Dutch broadcast corporation:

http://orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=jlvbuCsHtGAkBbC


Thanks for this link, Marc. Rodrigo de Sá sent it to me once, but it was lost in a harddisc breakdown.
Many interesting pieces and almost every Dutch organist of distinction represented.

Very interesting is also Helmut Walcha´s Bach pieces, especially his performance of his own arrangement for organ of the six-part Ricercare from Musikalisches Opfer, which he published in score at Peters, but never recorded. I once heard him play this piece at a recital in Copenhagen.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on August 09, 2009, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: springrite on May 31, 2009, 08:52:41 PM
In my collection of 3000 or so, organ is probably the least represented, in that I only have obligatorily collected 2 Bach organ CDs, one Franck, one Widor, one Liszt, two Messiaen, one modern compilation (Ligeti, etc.) and a few odd organ symphonies, none of which I listened to much if at all. Soon I will be listened to them with a bit more attention and see if I can get into them and maybe add to my collection.

Many classical music lovers just do not like organ music, plain and simple.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on November 19, 2009, 10:57:56 PM
Anyone familiar with organist Albert Bolliger and his recordings on the Sinus label, now at bargain prices at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/home/search/-/label/Sinus?page=1)? A series called "Historische Orgeln der Schweiz" seems tempting! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 22, 2009, 08:57:12 AM
Quote from: Que on November 19, 2009, 10:57:56 PM
Anyone familiar with organist Albert Bolliger and his recordings on the Sinus label, now at bargain prices at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/home/search/-/label/Sinus?page=1)? A series called "Historische Orgeln der Schweiz" seems tempting! :)

Q

I own the two CDs, Bolliger has recorded in Denmark. I find him reliable and informed. Maybe not the most individual player, but as time goes by, I am beginning more and more to appreciate musicians without towering ego´s.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on November 22, 2009, 01:29:30 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on August 09, 2009, 02:39:52 PM


Many classical music lovers just do not like organ music, plain and simple.

It reminds them of the death phase. ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 23, 2009, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: premont on November 22, 2009, 08:57:12 AM
I own the two CDs, Bolliger has recorded in Denmark. I find him reliable and informed. Maybe not the most individual player, but as time goes by, I am beginning more and more to appreciate musicians without towering ego´s.

Not towering, alright. I like that statement.
But a strange feller he is indeed: going to Denmark to record historical Swiss organs?
:P
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on November 23, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
Quote from: Marc on November 23, 2009, 09:55:01 AM
Not towering, alright. I like that statement.
But a strange feller he is indeed: going to Denmark to record historical Swiss organs?
:P

According to the site of the Sinus label (http://www.sinus-verlag.ch/) he has done some travelling & recording around - all on historical organs.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 23, 2009, 01:33:30 PM
Thanks for mentioning him anyway.
Recommended by Premont & Que: it could have been worse. :-*

I'll be watching for him, and hopefully listening to him one day. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 23, 2009, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on November 22, 2009, 01:29:30 PM
It reminds them of the death phase. ;D

Yet this blowing instrument is full of life! 8)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on November 23, 2009, 05:35:56 PM
Quote from: Marc on November 23, 2009, 01:33:30 PM
Thanks for mentioning him anyway.
Recommended by Premont & Que: it could have been worse. :-*

I'll be watching for him, and hopefully listening to him one day. :)

Correction: I was informing after him myself! :) 

So I'm with you in the desire to hear something by him. If we are to believe the press quotes on the site, he is at least a very able organist. Mayb I'll try some of the bargain stuff on offer at jpc.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 23, 2009, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Que on November 23, 2009, 05:35:56 PM
Correction: I was informing after him myself! :) 

So I'm with you in the desire to hear something by him. If we are to believe the press quotes on the site, he is at least a very able organist. Mayb I'll try some of the bargain stuff on offer at jpc.

I was blinded by your word 'tempting' and forgot about the verb 'to seem'. ;)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 24, 2009, 01:03:01 AM
My long reply can wait.  The computer crashed and I'll have to re-write and re-scan.
but here's a link to a site with a lot of information
http://www.gothic-catalog.com/
and this one will give you a radio program that can be accessed when you want it
http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/

Favourite organs are the Silbermann at Marmoutier, the Riepp at Ottobeuren and the Gabler at Weingarten.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 24, 2009, 05:03:12 AM
Quote from: listener on November 24, 2009, 01:03:01 AM
My long reply can wait.  The computer crashed and I'll have to re-write and re-scan.
but here's a link to a site with a lot of information
http://www.gothic-catalog.com/
and this one will give you a radio program that can be accessed when you want it
http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/

Favourite organs are the Silbermann at Marmoutier, the Riepp at Ottobeuren and the Gabler at Weingarten.

Thanks for the links, and good luck with the PC!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 24, 2009, 11:17:23 AM
As interesting as the repertoire for organ is the sound of the organs themselves.   There are regional differences, the preferences of the builders, tunings, and the buildings they are in.
Worth getting a sampling:  Bach and Buxtehude on North  German organs, South German organs (Riepp and Gabler), Alsace - Silbermann family (Daquin Noëls are appropriate at this time of year),
the reeds of southern France ( e.g. St. Maximin-en-Provence), the horizontal trumpets of Spanish organs (Covarrubias is particularly impressive)...   then there's the inoffensive quality of most British organs, the flutes of limited range of early Italian, and then....

For repertoire that is sort of decadent look for Charles Ives' Variations on America and Lefebure-Wely Sorties which sound as if they were written for cinema Wurlitzers.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 24, 2009, 11:42:34 AM
Quote from: listener on November 24, 2009, 11:17:23 AM
As interesting as the repertoire for organ is the sound of the organs themselves.   There are regional differences, the preferences of the builders, tunings, and the buildings they are in.
Worth getting a sampling:  Bach and Buxtehude on North  German organs, South German organs (Riepp and Gabler), Alsace - Silbermann family (Daquin Noëls are appropriate at this time of year),
the reeds of southern France ( e.g. St. Maximin-en-Provence), the horizontal trumpets of Spanish organs (Covarrubias is particularly impressive)...   then there's the inoffensive quality of most British organs, the flutes of limited range of early Italian, and then....

For repertoire that is sort of decadent look for Charles Ives' Variations on America and Lefebure-Wely Sorties which sound as if they were written for cinema Wurlitzers.

Good heavens!
You want me bankrupt?
;D

I´ve only just begun, but I´m trying to get the differences. ???

For a start I compare Schnitger & (Gottfried) Silbermann organs as much as I can. Roughly said is this my experience: the Silbermanns sound more granular (=reedy?). Maybe even more balanced (less influence of the praestant/principal stops?).

But I feel quite OK whilst listening to Schnitgers, really. (I´m referring to discs of Bach, Buxtehude, sometimes Pachelbel .... those guys.)

Pleaze, shoot me if I talk nonsense.  0:)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 24, 2009, 11:59:04 AM
It's like railfanning.  There are steam/diesel, freight/passenger, rider/watcher, modeler (subcategories N-scale, O-scale, H-scale)/non-modeler/ephemera collectors etc.  I observed the manias early on and managed to stay interested without getting fixated.   With organ music, watch for sale prices on items that interest you and if you travel try to hear some live.  That will probably require attending church services....(for some a really repellent idea if of the wrong denomination). 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 24, 2009, 12:09:03 PM
Railfanning! Nice comparison!
For years I stayed rather neutral towards organ music, but this year I suddenly got the flu.
Which means I had an expensive spring & summer, and I listened  live to instruments of Schnitger, Hinsz, Huisz and Timpe. All of them North German influenced I guess.

I'd rather not talk about the money spent on discs. :-[

But apparantly I'm charmed by a large amount of organ sounds, although I prefer, say, the 17th/18th century instruments (and the music of that period), or the so-called modern neo-baroque ones. Of the latter, I 'discovered' recently that I very much seem to like the Bernard Aubertin ones, played by a.o. Olivier Vernet & Benjamin Alard. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 24, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: listener on November 24, 2009, 11:17:23 AM
As interesting as the repertoire for organ is the sound of the organs themselves.   There are regional differences, the preferences of the builders, tunings, and the buildings they are in.

You probably already own this outstanding European organ journey, containing among others Helmut Winther´s Bruhns Toccata´s as well as some Spanish organ music played by Francis Chapelet. A must for organ fan´s.

Link:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Historische-Orgeln-in-Europa/hnum/3749757
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 24, 2009, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: Marc on November 24, 2009, 12:09:03 PM

...I 'discovered' recently that I very much seem to like the Bernard Aubertin ones, played by a.o.  Benjamin Alard.

The Triosonatas I suppose. How does he play them?

I know from elsewhere the sound of the organ he plays. A full and relative soft sound, very original, not like anything I have heard before.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 24, 2009, 12:44:41 PM
Got the hm set on CD and some on the original vinyl (kept for the notes and illustrations)
I pulled this (ebs 6012) off the shelf after the last post,  nice recording of the Weingarten organ with a very good annotation.  Bach Passacaglia 582, Aria ..italiana 989, Pastorale 590 and Toccata & F 540, plus a demo track of the "Kuckuck und Nachtigall."   There are recordings that do use the "La Force" stop, a 42-stop C-note.

A lot of organists new to me listed above, I'll look for them here.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 24, 2009, 12:50:59 PM
Quote from: listener on November 24, 2009, 12:44:41 PM
Got the hm set on CD and some on the original vinyl (kept for the notes and illustrations)
I pulled this (ebs 6012) off the shelf after the last post,  nice recording of the Weingarten organ with a very good annotation.

Yes, a good recording of this organ - one of the most difficult organs to record.
I also like Bleicher´s rather serious style.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 24, 2009, 01:05:03 PM
Quote from: premont on November 24, 2009, 12:31:51 PM
The Triosonatas I suppose. How does he play them?

Colourful. :)
(I also added a short message at the Bach organ thread.)

Quote from: premont
I know from elsewhere the sound of the organ he plays. A full and relative soft sound, very original, not like anything I have heard before.

Listening to the Adagio of BWV 525 right now, like a comforting prayer.
Lots of nice pics in the booklet btw, but no list of registration choices (there is a stop list, though). And the registration thing is something that I can't say that many about, and I want to learn more about.
I only had one short (Dutch) introduction/explanation at the Le Picard-choir organ of the Groningen Martinikerk. There are principals (praestants), flutes and reeds (tongue works, literally translated from Dutch to English), that's what I learned. Summarized: the strings, flutes and other wind instruments of the orchestra? O yes, if I remember it well, the Vox humana also belonged to the reed stops. Is this sort-of-correct? ???

What am I asking?
I should make a study of this site:
http://www.organstops.org/
:D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 24, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
The Chandos CD I showed in my first reply above with Piet Kee at Weingarten (CHAN 0520) includes the registrations for each piece.  Walther's Jesu, meine Freude variations concludes with the La Force stop.  Mikes are a bit closer, and there is some nice separation in echo sections but no loss of room resonance.  Kee happily includes 3 tracks to show off the "gadgets" - cymbala/Zimbelstern, 2 carillons and the  cuckoo and nightingale.  2 Chaconnes by Pachelbel, and Bach 534 P&F in f in the programme.
Neighbors above and to the side are out this evening so I can enjoy the 32ft pedal stops.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 25, 2009, 01:00:45 AM
Quote from: listener on November 24, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
The Chandos CD I showed in my first reply above with Piet Kee at Weingarten (CHAN 0520) includes the registrations for each piece. 
That's how it should be.
Although I understand that it's not done with bargain-priced compilation discs/samplers.

Quote from: listener
Neighbors above and to the side are out this evening so I can enjoy the 32ft pedal stops.
;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 06, 2009, 10:36:14 AM
Having lots of listening pleasure lately with the orgue Bernard Aubertin de Saint-Louis en l'Île, Paris.
Bach's Trio Sonatas by Benjamin Alard (check the Bach organ thread).
And now: organ works of Mozart, played by Olivier Vernet and some quatre mains with Cédric Meckler.

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1f0432b003.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Beautiful instrument!
(Though the Alard recording is much warmer recorded, with more space also.)

With Mozart and the organ it's something like what if he had grown older and got a job as organist, f.i. at the Wiener Stephansdom? Considering his works of 1791, including the unfinished Requiem, my guess would be that we wouldn't have to worry about the quality.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Antoine Marchand on December 07, 2009, 03:28:11 PM
Menno van Delft plays "Vater unser im Himmelreich" by Georg Böhm on the Arp Schnitger organ in the Jacobikerk at Uithuizen, The Netherlands.


http://www.youtube.com/v/Md2qlTxG2ng
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 08, 2009, 04:50:30 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 07, 2009, 03:28:11 PM
Menno van Delft plays "Vater unser im Himmelreich" by Georg Böhm on the Arp Schnitger organ in the Jacobikerk at Uithuizen, The Netherlands.

Thanks for posting. :)
Beautiful piece, beautiful instrument!
Constructed by Schnitger, and built (1699-1701) by two of his employees: Rudolf Garrels and Johannes Radeker.
After the last restoration (Bernhard Edskes, 2001): Hoofdwerk, Rugwerk, Pedal, 28 stops, 21 of them are original Schnitgers.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on December 22, 2009, 08:11:34 PM
Nice story in the New York Times - replica of an unplayable historic organ at Vilnius built in Rochester NY

some excerpts
The organ, the Craighead-Saunders, is a unique instrument, not only because of its lovely sound, but also because it is a nearly exact copy of a late Baroque organ built by Adam Gottlob Casparini of East Prussia in 1776. The original stands in the Holy Ghost Church in Vilnius, Lithuania.
The project to build a replica of the Vilnius organ began in 2000 at the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester, but Eastman had long wanted a new instrument for Christ Church. David Higgs, a concert organist and head of the Eastman organ department, had been seeking one for years.

In 1998, Mr. Higgs met Dr. Davidsson, the founder of the Goteborg Organ Art Center in Sweden. The center specializes in reconstructing historic organs and in making sure that restored instruments sounded the way the builders intended and that they properly played the music that was written for them.

Reconstruction is not easy. The technique for building large Baroque pipe organs had matured by the 17th century, but progress since then has put new tools in builders' hands. Entirely new schools of organ-building, performance, composition and taste evolved. These days, organs are tuned differently. Many are bigger, more robust and designed to play different kinds of music. Older organs needed to keep up with the times, so they were modified, sometimes so radically that their original tone could no longer be discerned.

It took four years to make the parts in Goteborg. Meanwhile, in Rochester, specialty cabinet-makers were building a new organ balcony for Christ Church, using lumber salvaged from a 19th-century South Carolina factory. Digital scans enabled the team to reproduce the carvings of the Vilnius cabinet, including the statue of King David above the console. German specialists painted the exterior wood surfaces with 18th-century-style gesso.

The Goteborg Center formed a collaboration with the Lithuanian Ministry of Culture and Mr. Gucas to support Lithuania's efforts to restore the Vilnius organ and make a replica as part of the project.

The team began by measuring everything in the Vilnius organ, including the cabinets and the smallest hand-wrought iron fixtures and nails. Team members made drawings of every fixture, every join, every pipe and every surface. The data were printed out and put together in enormous manuals the size of telephone books.

Then they were analyzed. The team removed the pipes to study the metal composition and to test the acoustics. The Vilnius organ was not playable, so the team could not hear what it sounded like. In fact, the meticulous preparations were necessary partly because the replica was to provide guidance in restoring the original.
The organ arrived in Rochester in 2007 and took a year to assemble. Behind the soaring facade, the interior is roomy and airy like a three-story, walk-in pine closet. Pipes of all sizes leap toward the rafters, but virtually all the moving parts — stop throttles, key action, air valves and trackers — are made of wood and driven mechanically by the power of human hands and feet.

The organ made its debut in October 2008, with four days of lectures, workshops and concerts.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22organ.html?_r=1&ref=science&pagewanted=all
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on December 22, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: listener on December 22, 2009, 08:11:34 PM
Nice story in the New York Times

Thanks for the excellent article, which was a pleasure to read ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 24, 2009, 01:56:37 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on December 22, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
Thanks for the excellent article, which was a pleasure to read ...
Yep. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on February 06, 2010, 12:40:12 AM
Well, this thread deserves a good awakening! :)

I've immersed myself in this disc with music by Michael Praetorius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Praetorius) (not to be mistaken with Jacob Praetorius), an early German Baroque composer and music theorist, contemporary and colleague of Heinrich Schütz.

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/265/BIG.JPG) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Tangerm%C3%BCnde%2C_Stephanskirche%2C_Orgel_%282007-10-19%29.JPG/450px-Tangerm%C3%BCnde%2C_Stephanskirche%2C_Orgel_%282007-10-19%29.JPG)

This disc comprises ten organ compositions from his music collections Musae Sioniae (fantasias on Lutheran chorales) and Hymnodiae Sioniae (Latin Hymns). I think it's brilliant stuff, brilliantly played. The fact that the music consists of heavy polyphonic fantasias on chorales and hymns, drawn to heavenly length does provide an hurdle for the listener to get into the music. But that being said, both composer and performer provide ample variation and colour to keep our attention. If anyone can guide us into this music, it's Jean-Charles Ablitzer (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/ablitzer/) who combines intellectual rigour and grasp of musical structure with an airy touch and wonderful articulation. He is supported by the wonderful organ of the Sankt-Stephanskirche in Tangermünde, built in 1623-24 by Hans Scherer the Younger and Fritz Scherer, which has a beautiful colourful tone, clarity and refinement. One can't get enough organ recordings of this instrument IMO! :)

Interestingly, this recording was made under supervision of Ablitzer himself, Alpha has just issued it! But you won't notice - it's technically excellent. More info about this recording HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-Alpha_114).

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 06, 2010, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: Que on February 06, 2010, 12:40:12 AM
I've immersed myself in this disc with music by Michael Praetorius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Praetorius) (not to be mistaken with Jacob Praetorius), an early German Baroque composer and music theorist, contemporary and colleague of Heinrich Schütz.

Maybe I should draw your attention to a CD with organ works of Jacob Prætorius played by Leon Berben (also on the Scherer organ in Tangermünde) (Ramée).  I do not know if I can recommend it, because the works are even more difficult to access than the organworks of Michael Prætorius. But the splendid organ is well caught and the playing is as far as I can hear - for obvious reasons I have not heard much other organ music by this composer, as this CD as far as I know is the only existing exclusively Jacob Prætorius CD -  stylish.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on February 07, 2010, 01:34:37 AM
Quote from: premont on February 06, 2010, 04:14:16 PM
Maybe I should draw your attention to a CD with organ works of Jacob Prætorius played by Leon Berben (also on the Scherer organ in Tangermünde) (Ramée).  I do not know if I can recommend it, because the works are even more difficult to access than the organworks of Michael Prætorius. But the splendid organ is well caught and the playing is as far as I can hear - for obvious reasons I have not heard much other organ music by this composer, as this CD as far as I know is the only existing exclusively Jacob Prætorius CD -  stylish.

Thanks, I have noticed that intersting disc as well! :) Looks like absolutely mouth watering stuff! ;D (I'm dooooomed.. :-\ 8))
(http://www.ramee.org/images/ram0402cover.jpg)

Info & samples HERE (http://www.ramee.org/0402gb.html).

Also, Ablitzer did a another Michael Praetorius disc - this time with organ adaptations of motets and secular dances - "Auch auff Orgeln" on Musique et Mémoirs (http://www.musetmemoire-prod.com/productions_e.php). That disc features a rare cabinet organ.

(http://www.orgelkunst.be/wcms/uploads/img4b4455f24e3ff.jpg) (http://www.musetmemoire-prod.com/images/image_presprod2.jpg)

Review in French HERE (http://classiquenews.fr/ecouter/lire_chronique_cd.aspx?id=928). (In a Googled "translation" HERE (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://classiquenews.fr/ecouter/lire_chronique_cd.aspx%3Fid%3D928&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.nl&usg=ALkJrhi8iZWfHQul2QfVUptfkgtU2jZzng)).
A review by Johan van Veen HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Musique_Memoire_MMP080901.html).

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 07, 2010, 03:12:36 AM
Quote from: Que on February 07, 2010, 01:34:37 AM
Also, Ablitzer did a another Michael Praetorius disc - this time with organ adaptations of motets and secular dances - "Auch auff Orgeln" ... That disc features a rare cabinet organ.

Fortunately the Compenius organ in Frederiksborg Slotskirke is well documented on disc already, but Ablitzers Prætorius programming is of course interesting. Do you think it is possible to get hold of the his CD without having to execute extraordinary procedures as to payment?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on February 07, 2010, 05:21:22 AM
Quote from: premont on February 07, 2010, 03:12:36 AM
Fortunately the Compenius organ in Frederiksborg Slotskirke is well documented on disc already, but Ablitzers Prætorius programming is of course interesting. Do you think it is possible to get hold of the his CD without having to execute extraordinary procedures as to payment?

Don't know. But I've spotted that disc also at regular French sources like fnac (http://musique.fnac.com/a2789318/Michael-Praetorius-Auch-auff-Orgeln-Transcriptions-de-Motets-et-Danses-CD-album?Mn=-1&Mu=-13&Ra=-29&To=0&from=1&Nu=1&Fr=0), alapage (http://www.alapage.com/m/ps/mpid:MP-91370M3448919#moid:MO-91370M5269611) or CDmail (http://www.cdmail.fr/affich_fich.asp?refcdm=CDM911779).
La Chaumière (http://www.chaumiereonline.com/Musique-Classique/Auch-auff-Orgeln-un-art-de-la-transcription-entre-Renaissance-et-Baroque-549819.aspx) is also a very reliable source for French rarities! :)

Do you have any hot tips on recordings of that particular organ? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 05, 2010, 06:07:57 AM
Maybe this link has been posted before, but anyway: organ lovers might enjoy it!

http://mypipeorganhobby.blogspot.com/

Beginning with vids (+ sound) of Gwendolyn Tóth, playing at the 1531 built organ in Krewerd, Groningen, NL.

In the region, the instrument is known as de skreeuwerd van Krewerd (= the screamer of Krewerd). ;D

Why?, you ask.
I really haven't any clue. :-\

Check it out yourself!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: John Copeland on March 05, 2010, 09:33:55 AM
Has anyone here visited the 'Bruckner Organ' at St. Florestan, if so, do you have nice photo of it you can publish here?  Also, the Linz organ?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 05, 2010, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 05, 2010, 06:07:57 AM
Maybe this link has been posted before, but anyway: organ lovers might enjoy it!

http://mypipeorganhobby.blogspot.com/

Thanks for this great link, Marc.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: John Copeland on March 05, 2010, 11:09:50 AM
Magnificent.  Thank you for that, it's just the vision I needed.

PREMONT thank you for the link, it has everything I coiuld have asked for in this exploration.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on March 05, 2010, 08:30:16 PM
SALE ON THIS WEEK AT GOTHIC

for the benefit of the penurious but obsessive-compulsive...
The March Madness sale is here:
This week, for one week only, all single organ solo recordings are $18.98 $9.98
Double organ CDs are $29:98 $14.98
Triple organ CDs are $39.98 $19.98
Includes new releases!
Offer limited to stock on hand on the labels:
Loft Recordings, Gothic Records, reZound
Offer expires midnight Friday March 12, 2010

http://www.gothic-catalog.com/Default.asp

and oh, do I feel tempted....
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 05, 2010, 11:30:21 PM
Quote from: John on March 05, 2010, 11:09:50 AM
PREMONT thank you for the link, it has everything I coiuld have asked for in this exploration.

Well, I think I shall forward your thanks to Marc.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 06, 2010, 06:23:59 AM
Quote from: listener on March 05, 2010, 08:30:16 PM
SALE ON THIS WEEK AT GOTHIC [....]

Offer expires midnight Friday March 12, 2010

http://www.gothic-catalog.com/Default.asp

and oh, do I feel tempted....
Yes, Gothic has got some yummie issues in their catalog!
For Europeans a.o. though, there's that lazy import tax thing .... but thanx for drawing our attention to this!

Quote from: premont on March 05, 2010, 11:30:21 PM
Well, I think I shall forward your thanks to Marc.
Thanx and you're all very welcome.
Maybe we should all thank the blog owner for that nice informative site! :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on April 02, 2010, 11:31:29 PM
.[asin]B000BTQGXU[/asin]

As Premont commented before, this is an excellent disc. Coming from Froberger's works for harpsichord (see the German Baroque thread) that are very much oriented on the French tradition, this is somewhat of a surprise since this seems to me quite focused on Italian organ music by Frescobaldi et al. Pretty elusive and somewhat austere stuff too, basically a large collection of exercises in counterpoint. Playing by Van Asperen is pretty straight, unfussy. It is on the conservative side but not as much as his teacher Leonhardt. What makes it a success is the flexibility and subtle phrasing, bold at some times, almost transcendental at others. And the warm, intimate, characterful and transparent sound of the  organ of the Basilica S.Martini in Bologna, built in 1556 by Giovanni Cipri. Recording by the German label Aeolus (http://www.aeolus-music.com/ae_en/), that specialises in organ music, is exemplary. A rewarding disc for advanced organ listeners.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 11, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
Lovely little clip about the restoration of the Lohman organ (1817), Village Church, Zuidwolde, NL.
A few days before the restoration started, I played a few Mozart bars on this one .... in an awful manner, of course. :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I05jbWIrCCU
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 11, 2010, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: Que on February 07, 2010, 01:34:37 AM
Also, Ablitzer did a another Michael Praetorius disc - this time with organ adaptations of motets and secular dances - "Auch auff Orgeln" on Musique et Mémoirs (http://www.musetmemoire-prod.com/productions_e.php). That disc features a rare cabinet organ.

(http://www.orgelkunst.be/wcms/uploads/img4b4455f24e3ff.jpg) (http://www.musetmemoire-prod.com/images/image_presprod2.jpg)


I have now purchased this CD and agree that it is most interesting. Maybe the  music might be better chosen and I do not care for the inclusion of a cornet even if Dongois is a great musician. But the CD gives a very fair picture of this unique organ.

Other recordings with the Compenius organ are:

About one third of Koopman´s  four CDs Sweelinck integral for Philips
http://www.amazon.de/Cembalowerke-Ton-Koopman/dp/B00005ND44/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273687323&sr=1-4

One half of a CD by Albert Bolliger (Sinus)
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Albert-Bolliger-Orgel/hnum/4118529

One CD by Per Kynne Frandsen on DaCapo
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/D%E4nische-Orgelmusik/hnum/7742201

One CD by Lena Jacobsson on BIS
http://www.amazon.de/Court-Dance-Music-Renaissance-Baroque/dp/B0000263OT/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273687415&sr=1-2

I think most of these are available at the moment, see links.

Francis Chapelet and Helmut Tramnitz have also made recordings with this organ on Harmonia Mundi France and Archiv, but these are as far as I know OOP.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 11, 2010, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Marc on May 11, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
Lovely little clip about the restoration of the Lohman organ (1817), Village Church, Zuidwolde, NL.
A few days before the restoration started, I played a few Mozart bars on this one .... in an awful manner, of course. :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I05jbWIrCCU

Thanks for this entertaining and indeed lovely clip, Marc.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on June 15, 2010, 10:28:35 AM
ALICE TULLEY HALL NYC 

Pipe Organ Returns to Alice Tully Hall
By JAMES R. OESTREICH
Hiroko Masuike for The New York Times Workers carry one of the organ pipes into Alice Tully Hall.

Skepticism stirred when Lincoln Center spirited the pipe organ out of Alice Tully Hall before the building's renovation in 2006, promising its eventual return. The skepticism only grew when the renovated hall reopened in early 2009 with no sign of the organ.

But Lincoln Center promised all along, and now it has delivered. The 19-ton instrument, 4,192 pipes strong, returned to Tully Hall on Monday morning aboard two semitrailers. Employees of the manufacturer, Orgelbau Th. Kuhn of Männedorf, Switzerland, and Lincoln Center stagehands began unloading the trucks at 8 a.m.

The process started at the hall's loading dock on 66th Street, with smaller pieces at first. Occasionally a recognizable feature — the organist's bench, for example — would float by. Other objects required a bit of explanation: wind chests, wooden frames about the size of small pool tables, each with hundreds of holes on the upper face to hold miniature pipes. (One of these elicited a choice bit of stagehand lingo, as the workers were told to "Iwo Jima it onto the dolly," the makeshift verb evidently denoting a number of brawny backs leaning into a task.) But most of the early cargo remained anonymous, in wooden crates or cardboard boxes.

A little later, the second truck started yielding up organ pipes on 65th Street, where the stage entrance provided a more direct route and easier turns into the hall. The pipes were laid on the floor of the orchestra level, between rows of seats. A Kuhn technician had to caution a stagehand to carry pipes cradled in his arms, not resting on a shoulder, which could leave a dent in the soft metal, an alloy of tin and lead.

Then it was back to 66th Street for the unloading of squarish wooden pipes (the contrebombarde) and the heaviest item yet: the console, looking naked, stripped of its wooden cabinet. The renovation of Lincoln Center, which has continued in the organ's absence, has evidently made a few things easier. When the console was removed, the door of the freight elevator had to be left open, a stagehand recalled, and the instrument rubbed up against the walls. But the renovation has brought a new, larger elevator to the Tully loading area.

The organ, a personal gift to the hall from Alice Tully, was built by Kuhn in 1974 and inaugurated in 1975 by the organist E. Power Biggs. In recent years it has resided in storage facilities at the Adirondack Scenic company in Argyle, N.Y., some 20 miles northeast of Saratoga Springs. It was cleaned and rebuilt there by Kuhn in May.

The various parts are being scattered about the Tully stage, each as close to its ultimate destination as possible. "The bench can go right in place," a technician said. The rear wall of the stage, which has large sliding doors, "remains exactly the same," John Tiebout, Lincoln Center's director of concert halls and operations, said on Monday, though "a small amount of cutting and chopping" will take place behind the scenes.

The reinstallation of the organ will take weeks. The next event scheduled in Tully Hall is the first of three shows featuring the Blind Boys of Alabama on July 12, part of the Lincoln Center Festival. The first performance on the restored organ is a reading of Bach's "Clavier-Übung," Part 3, by Paul Jacobs on Nov. 16, part of Lincoln Center's new fall festival, White Light.
source:
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/pipe-organ-returns-to-alice-tully-hall/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: snyprrr on June 15, 2010, 11:46:23 AM
Contemporary Organ of Notre Dame (Solstice):

Xenakis
Chaynes
Chapelet

Wow! Can I get a witness?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on June 17, 2010, 10:17:07 AM
LONDON,   Royal Festival Hall

The Royal Festival Hall has received £950,000 from the Heritage Lottery Fund to restore and reinstall a grade I listed organ in its main auditorium.

The instrument, which has 7,710 pipes, was installed in the auditorium in 1954 but was removed for renovation work.

The restoration on the organ will be undertaken by Harrison and Harrison Ltd, its original creators.

The work, which is the final phase of revamp of the building on London's South Bank, will finish by 2013.
Organ's anniversary

The organ was known for its open-plan design and eclectic tone. Most of the components of the organ are being stored in Durham.

It will be reinstalled in its original location at the heart of Sir Leslie Martin's concert auditorium in time for the instrument's 60th anniversary celebration in 2014.

Alan Bishop, chief executive of Southbank Centre in London, said: "I would like to thank the Heritage Lottery Fund for their significant contribution to the full restoration of the great organ of the Royal Festival Hall for the next generation."

He said a fundraising campaign would be launched in September to appeal for public support.

Sue Bowers, head of the Heritage Lottery Fund for London, said she was delighted that the restoration will put the "amazing internationally important organ back in its rightful place".

from  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/london/10342262.stm
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: ccar on June 17, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hy9pFg9lZgE/Rd-6CZW7BLI/AAAAAAAAACA/Zy-a6jzVAhs/s320/mafra_convento_1-br.jpg)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eIrNyPm081A/Sxsa12oN0bI/AAAAAAAAAJI/O9bftzK0TaI/s400/Bas%C3%ADlica+de+Mafra.jpg)(http://www.tintafresca.net/_uploads/edi%C3%A7%C3%A3o%2086/Mafra_Orgaos2.JPG)

The Convent of Mafra is a large baroque monastery, built by King John V of Portugal in 1730. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.)
 
The church includes a set of 6 historic baroque organs and 2 carillons, unique in the world. The 6 organs were recently restored and a concert with the complete set was held a few months ago.  This excerpt is only a small aperitif  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on June 19, 2010, 09:07:18 PM
Quote from: ccar on June 17, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hy9pFg9lZgE/Rd-6CZW7BLI/AAAAAAAAACA/Zy-a6jzVAhs/s320/mafra_convento_1-br.jpg)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eIrNyPm081A/Sxsa12oN0bI/AAAAAAAAAJI/O9bftzK0TaI/s400/Bas%C3%ADlica+de+Mafra.jpg)(http://www.tintafresca.net/_uploads/edi%C3%A7%C3%A3o%2086/Mafra_Orgaos2.JPG)

The Convent of Mafra is a large baroque monastery, built by King John V of Portugal in 1730. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.)
 
The church includes a set of 6 historic baroque organs and 2 carillons, unique in the world. The 6 organs were recently restored and a concert with the complete set was held a few months ago.  This excerpt is only a small aperitif  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related)

Nice.     ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Sid on July 12, 2010, 11:08:37 PM
I'm just beginning to get into organ music again, after a long hiatus. I used to go to organ recitals in the '90's here in Sydney. I want to do that again, but every time there's an organ recital on, it clashes  with another concert I want to go to!

Anyhow, in the mean time, I have purchased some cd's of organ music. I especially like the French composers for this instrument. I have got Couperin's two organ masses, a cd of selections from Widor's organ symphonies on Naxos, some of Franck's organ music, some Durufle works, as well as a mixed collection of pieces by guys like Langlais, Boellmann (the amazing Suite gothique), Guillmant, and others. I've also got a cd with some of D. Scarlatti's organ sonatas.

Composers I want to get on cd (& of course, hear live) are guys like Messiaen, Sweenlick, Elgar (the organ arangment of his Enigma) and Alain (heard his Litanies live and it was amazing). I like organ concertos less, though I do have a cd of Respighi's, Lovelock's and Poulenc's efforts in that genre. I really can't stand Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony.

I really like the unique colours of the organ, it is the king of instruments, no less. The breadth and depth of it's sounds can only be compared to a large orchestra, if anything. I also like the harmonies, which can be very rich & subtle. There is much out there for me to discover yet.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 13, 2010, 10:52:33 AM
Another re-discovery of the organ!

Even though I have different favourite flavours, I'm convinced you're gonna have a good time with this renewed journey. Enjoy yourself!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 17, 2010, 01:32:22 AM
Fine new CD of Organ/Choral music:
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on July 28, 2010, 02:13:30 AM
I tought I'd post my first impressions on this right away.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4101380101793.jpg)

Harry wasn't pleased with it at all. I am a bit more positive. But what doesn't help is the recording (from 1979): it creates a very diffuse and overtly bright sound picture which might be responsible for the fact that Felix Friedich's playing comes of as a bit too superficial and glitzy. After my ears adjusted, I found that Johann Ludwig Krebs (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig.htm) was composer that wrote some pretty damn good German "Baroque" organ music: clearly infuenced by Bach but already more forward looking - Krebs was kind of a transitional figure in the Gurn's Classical Corner way! :D More "feminine" music due to the projected "emfindlichkeit" that is quintessential for this musical movement and slightly less intellectually rigorous than Bach.

Felix Friedrich (http://felixfriedrich.kilu.de/) turns out to be an authority on Johann Ludwig krebs, he who wrote several academic publications on the composer. I found out he did a complete Krebs cycle on Querstand (http://www.querstand.de/lang-en/index.html). He fits into the "Music Academics behind the Organ School" with Harald Vogel (Buxyehude) and Gerhard Weinberger (Bach). So competent and very historically correct playing, though he sounds to my ears less "academic" than Vogel or Weinberger.

I would like to explore Krebs' organ music - any suggestions? Anyone heard Friedrich cycle on Querstand, which is probably better recorded?

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 28, 2010, 03:21:51 AM
Quote from: Que on July 28, 2010, 02:13:30 AM
[....]
I would like to explore Krebs' organ music - any suggestions? Anyone heard Friedrich cycle on Querstand, which is probably better recorded?
I have some Krebs at home and I certainly love to listen to his organ stuff. The discs are from Naxos (forgot organist) and Friedrich (forgot label).

I'm at work right now, and tonight I'll be listening to Lorenzo Ghielmi live in the Martinikerk (unlucky me :D).
No Krebs at his programme, but Bruhns, Buxtehude, Sammartini and .... Bach.

But I'll come back on this .... if Premont doesn't beat me. ;)

I guess our Danish connaisseur will say something like I like Krebs very much, but he always makes me longing for the Grandmaster (a certain JS Bach) even more.

Let's wait and see ....
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2010, 03:25:01 AM
Quote from: Marc on July 28, 2010, 03:21:51 AM
I have some Krebs at home and I certainly love to listen to his organ stuff. The discs are from Naxos (forgot organist) and Friedrich (forgot label).

I'm at work right now, and tonight I'll be listening to Lorenzo Ghielmi live in the Martinikerk (unlucky me :D).
No Krebs at his programme, but Bruhns, Buxtehude, Sammartini and .... Bach.

But I'll come back on this .... if Premont doesn't beat me. ;)

I guess our Danish connaisseur will say something like I like Krebs very much, but he always makes me longing for the Grandmaster (a certain JS Bach) even more.

Let's wait and see ....

I will try to be there too, I was just listening to Lorenzo Ghielmi, playing organ on a Frescobaldi disc! ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 28, 2010, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: Marc on July 28, 2010, 03:21:51 AM
I guess our Danish connaisseur will say something like I like Krebs very much, but he always makes me longing for the Grandmaster (a certain JS Bach) even more.

Almost spot on, Marc. To be honest I have never been seriously attracted by Krebs´organ works. Too much copying of Bach´s works, going so far as to paraphrase specific Bach works, and much of it sounding like a collection of Bachian turns in casual order, without the tension and inner logic, which marks Bach´s organ works (do not confuse this with intellectual rigorism!). And many of Krebs´fugue subjects are lame and do not really evolve in the course of the fugue. Accordingly he is sparingly represented in my collection, and I have never considered a purchase of an integral. I own all in all six Krebs CD´s including a few overlappings together representing about one third of his works.  These are two CD´s with Riccardo Doni, the one discussed above with Felix Friedrich, and one each with Gerhard Weinberger (Christophorus), Graham Barber (ASV) and Gerhard Gnann (Naxos). All are competent musicians and do their best to make the music interesting without overdoing it, but - as you write - I can not listen to Krebs without longing for the real thing all the time. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on July 28, 2010, 10:05:00 AM
Interesting, Premont! :)
I guess you are less impressed by Krebs' transitional quality in style. But I do understand what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree. Still, but my impression was that I would enjoy a nice chunk of his music, provided tht it is played by the right organist (expressive, articulated) and on the right organ.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 28, 2010, 12:07:35 PM
I made a mistake: I don't have a Krebs disc with Friedrich, but with Beatrice-Maria Weinberger (Gerhard Weinberger's spouse). It's a copy of Volume 1 of their Krebs-integral for the Motette label.

Here's a Dutch link:

http://www.landgoedgerianna.nl/nieuws/cd-besprekingen/nr.-12-09-motette-krebs-serie-complete-organ-works-gerhard-beatrice-weinberger.html

BTW1: the Ghielmi concert was very fine, with exquisite registrations, especially the final Toccata, Adagio & Fugue in C-Major BWV 564.
I was only slightly disappointed with BWV 622 (O, Mensch, bewein dein' Sünde groß), played a bit too aloof. IMO, Ghielmi didn't get the severe protestant atmosphere of that piece.

BTW2: Harry, were you there?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 04, 2010, 01:43:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/QHWT6kP5AvI

The instrument at the end of the clip is the historic organ of the Martinikerk, Groningen, NL, restored during 1976-1984 by Jürgen Ahrend, after thorough research by Cor Edskes.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Bulldog on August 04, 2010, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: Que on July 28, 2010, 02:13:30 AM
I would like to explore Krebs' organ music - any suggestions? Anyone heard Friedrich cycle on Querstand, which is probably better recorded?

Q

A Krebs organ disc I can recommend without any reservations is William Porter playing the Krebs Clavier-Ubung and two chorales on a Loft disc #1026.  Porter is one of my favorite organists and does himself proud on this recording (significantly better than Gnann on Naxos).  His choice of instrument is the Pehr Schiorlin organ (1806) located in Gammalkil, Sweden.  The recording was made in 2001 and times in at 76:54.

Of course, there is a limit to how much one can enjoy the music of Krebs, but Porter takes me to its upper reaches.
I do suggest listening to just a few pieces at one sitting. 

For those of you who might consider going to the Naxos Music Library to listen to 15 minutes of the Loft disc, it unfortunately is not listed as of today.  However, I'm confident it will be added soon.  FWIW, I love the aesthetic appeal of the cover.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on August 08, 2010, 07:24:05 AM
Quote from: Que on July 28, 2010, 02:13:30 AM

I would like to explore Krebs' organ music - any suggestions? Anyone heard Friedrich cycle on Querstand, which is probably better recorded?

Q

Q,

I have all 6 volumes of Krebs Complete Organ Works by John Kitchen on the Priory Label.  You may want to check them out ... (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=priory+kitchen+krebs&x=0&y=0&ih=5_1_0_0_1_0_0_0_0_1.112_166&fsc=-1)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: pjme on October 27, 2010, 01:04:21 PM
A Belgian organ inCairo – 1914.

Egypt boasts 15 church organs. One of them was built in 1914 ( by Georges Cloetens, in Brussels) for the Heliopolis cathedral, near Cairo.


Modern Heliopolis (Arabic: مصر الجديدة‎, transliterated: Maṣsr el-Gedīdah – literally "New Egypt", is a district of Cairo. The town was established by the Heliopolis Oasis Company, headed by the Belgian industrialist Édouard Louis Joseph, Baron Empain, as well as Boghos Nubar, son of the Egyptian Prime Minister, Nubar Pasha, beginning in 1905. The Baron, a well known amateur egyptologist and prominent European entrepreneur, arrived in Egypt in January 1904, intending to rescue one of his Belgian company's projects in Egypt; the construction of a railway line linking Matariya to Port Said. Despite losing the railway contract to the British, Empain stayed on in Egypt; a decision due to his relationship with Yvette Boghdadli and/or love of the desert.
The Basilique Catholic church situated on Al-Ahram street is a famous landmark in Heliopolis, and it is the burial place of Baron Empain. The many places of worship in the district, including Saint Maron and Saint-Rita church on Beirut street, a Jewish synagogue on Al Missalah street, and the mosques all over the neighborhood, demonstrate that the city has been living in religious tolerance since it was established.

Over the years the organ in the Basilique became silent : desert sand filled the pipes and Heliopolis itself became part of greater Cairo.

Belgian organbuilder Gerard Pels and the Ktesibios http://www.ktesibios.eu/kte%20projecten.html organisation found money to restore this instrument. After more than a year of hard work , the instrument will be playable again.
Ktesibios tries to restaure organs in Arabia and third world countries.
Festive concert on november 12th!




Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 04, 2010, 03:30:55 AM
Repost from the Christmas music thread:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61LmLq11R-L.jpg) (http://www.orgue-saorge.fr/upload/4.png)

Recently got this cute little Christmas CD with organ music.

René Saorgin plays the organ of the Sainte Chapelle du Château Ducal de Chambéry for the first four tracks, and the remainder of the disc - works by Claude Beningne Balbastre ( 1727- 1799) - on the Serassi organ (1807) of the Cathédrale de Tendre (pictured)

The pieces by Balbastre, 12 parts from Recueil de noëls formant quatre suittes, avec des variations pour le clavecin et le piano-forte, cleverly written for organ, as well as harpsichord and piano, take pride of place. Together with another "noël" - a short organ piece on a traditional Christmas theme - by Louis Claude Daquin (1694-1772). Virtuosic and stylish variations on familiar and unfamiliar (at least to me) Christmas themes, which seem just Saorgin's cup of tea. That combined with the historical organs make, as I said, a cute disc - very enjoyable. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: snyprrr on December 04, 2010, 06:28:26 AM
Any favs here?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 26, 2011, 11:57:52 PM
Came accross this, any comments on the composer and the music? :)

Samples sounded pretty impressive.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pqKiXC8VL._SS400_.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/v/y9TJohwbSIc&hl

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 27, 2011, 12:09:44 AM
He's been mentioned in the JS Bach organ thread:

Quote from: premont on May 15, 2010, 06:34:34 AM
Walter Kraft recorded in the late 1950es the organ works of Vincent Lübeck for Vox. Unfortunately it was released (recorded?) only in mono and never - to my knowledge - made its way to CD. An interpretation in the same vein as his Buxtehude set.

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 15, 2010, 06:58:01 AM
... oh, that Lübeck: a man not a city or an organ in that city. I didn't even know his existence until now. Another name to explore. :)

Quote from: Marc on May 15, 2010, 10:26:56 PM
Yep!
Vincent Lübeck (ca. 1654-1740).
Unfortunately, only a small amount of Lübeck's works has survived. His best known composition is a large organ Fantasia on Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ.
He was a.o. organist at the Nikolaikirche in Hamburg, where they had a large Schnitger organ. Here's a quote from Johann Mattheson: This extraordinary organ ... also has an extraordinary organist. But how to praise someone who is already greatly renowned? I only need to give his name, Vincent Lübeck, to complete the whole eulogy.
One of his sons, Vincent jr., also became a well-known musician and composer.
(And the third more or less well-known Vincent Lübeck was this son's grandfather. Are you still with me? ;))
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 27, 2011, 12:36:13 AM
Quote from: Que on March 26, 2011, 11:57:52 PM
Came accross this, any comments on the composer and the music? :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pqKiXC8VL._SS400_.jpg)

Lübeck is one of the most interesting North German baroque organ composers between 1650 - 1700 , along with Buxtehude and Bruhns. His music is however not quite as innovative or inventive as the best music of these two. His complete surviving organ music fills only one CD and consists in one great chorale phantasy (Ich ruf zu dir) and a number of "preludes and fugues" formally in the Buxtehude pattern (freestyle sections alternating with fugal sections). Because of the archaic and sometimes formulaic texture of Lübeck´s works it is obviously difficult for performers to strike a fruitful balance between formal grandeur and improvisatory feeling. The available recordings are not that different. I could live with Berben, but marginally I prefer Bernard Coudurier on BNL.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 27, 2011, 12:44:09 AM
There's also some Lübeck organ stuff on this very nice (but difficult to get) 2-cd:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2r7lg6f.jpg)

Information on these recordings (in German):

http://www.landschaftsverband-stade.de/arp-schnitger-orgel-cd1.html

Unfortunately, most of these issues are (very) limited editions.
Probably there are still some German, Dutch, eBay or MarketPlace related sites that have this one in catalogue (?).

For Dutchmen (and women!) there's always this site:
http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/cd.htm

But who knows: if an interested foreigner writes them a friendly e-mail (info@groningenorgelland.nl), there might be something possible to arrange. But I can't promise anything.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 27, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
Thank you both for the comments! :) :)

Premont, I was about to ask after the organ Coudurier uses (another name I need to explore), but this was self-explanatory:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/08/ciu/fc/70/721bf96642a0a048b9cf9110.L.jpg)

But while we're on the topic: what would you guys get for Bruhns?  :) (Though I do vaguely remember we've touched that topic before)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 27, 2011, 01:16:49 AM
Quote from: Que on March 27, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
[....]
But while we're on the topic: what would you guys get for Bruhns?  :) (Though I do vaguely remember we've touched that topic before)

This is a nice one IMO:

(http://i53.tinypic.com/rm5pjo.jpg)

http://www.amazon.de/Complete-Organ-Works-Bruhns/dp/B000BK539M/

And on this interesting set, Helmut Winter plays (almost) all Bruhns organ works:

(http://i56.tinypic.com/19ms0y.jpg)

http://www.amazon.de/Orgues-Historiques-Chapelet/dp/B000HXDS0Y/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 27, 2011, 02:40:46 AM
Quote from: Que on March 27, 2011, 01:03:36 AM

But while we're on the topic: what would you guys get for Bruhns?  :) (Though I do vaguely remember we've touched that topic before)

About a year ago you asked a similar question, and I did some comparative listening to the Bruhns sets I own (and acquired some more sets), and ended up preferring Helmut Winter´s recording on HM. He plays the old Altenbruch organ and plays in an unfussy, fresh style. No. two was Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen playing on small neo-baroque organs in Northern Germany. If you want, I can redo the test, but it will take some time (about 12 different versions).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 27, 2011, 02:46:44 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 27, 2011, 12:44:09 AM
There's also some Lübeck organ stuff on this very nice (but difficult to get) 2-cd:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2r7lg6f.jpg)


Almost all the organs are well represented in my library, and the organists are as well as unknown to me - this may of course be my fault. And the problems of getting hold of the CD set seems to be very great, so I shall let this one pass.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 27, 2011, 03:59:39 AM
Marc, Premont, thank you both again! :)


Quote from: premont on March 27, 2011, 02:40:46 AM
If you want, I can redo the test, but it will take some time (about 12 different versions).

No need to bother again, this is plenty to go on! Thanks.  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on March 27, 2011, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: Que on July 28, 2010, 10:05:00 AM
Interesting, Premont! :)
I guess you are less impressed by Krebs' transitional quality in style. But I do understand what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree. Still, but my impression was that I would enjoy a nice chunk of his music, provided tht it is played by the right organist (expressive, articulated) and on the right organ.

Q

I have 6 volumes of Krebs' Complete Organ Works by John Kitchen on the Priory label ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on April 01, 2011, 12:40:15 AM
Wanamaker Organ to double in size !

http://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/photos/G-49240-2.jpg
Wanamaker organist Peter Richard Conte today confirmed plans to double the size of the Wanamaker Grand Court Organ, now located in Macy's flagship department store in Philadelphia.  Already the world's largest musical instrument, the new additions will substantially increase the tonal resources available to the talented Wanamaker organist.

John Bishop confirmed that Macy's had purchased The Organ Clearinghouse's entire collection of used organs and pipework to enable the expansion. In the future, the organist can not only select not a wide range of stops, but also a wide range of organ builders.  "You could play an entire piece on just Austin, Moller or Skinner pipes," quipped Conte.

Macy's reportedly made the acquisition on reports that Nordstrom's was getting a pipe organ for its Seattle store.


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 01, 2011, 03:48:52 AM
Quote from: listener on April 01, 2011, 12:40:15 AM
Wanamaker Organ to double in size !

http://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/photos/G-49240-2.jpg

[....]

Seeing a pic like that makes me wanna listen to Viva Las Vegas! by 'The Pelvis' .... (or by the Dead Kennedys ....)  ;)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2011, 04:13:27 AM
I love Messis by that great Danish original, Rued Langgaard. It's full of fantasy, atmosphere and majesty.


(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Apr01/LanggaardMessis.jpg)


Read more about it here:


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Apr01/messis.htm
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 01, 2011, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2011, 04:13:27 AM
I love Messis by that great Danish original, Rued Langgaard. It's full of fantasy, atmosphere and majesty.
[....]

OK. Ordered it at ze library.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2011, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: Marc on April 01, 2011, 11:27:40 AM
OK. Ordered it at ze library.


You won't regret it. It comes coupled with a closely-related piece, like a sort of curtain-raiser, In ténebras exteriores. (I seem to remember you're Dutch, too. Which library? In Rotterdam?)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on April 01, 2011, 10:32:18 PM
more news from Gothic today  01-04-11
Washington National Cathedral announces new plans for the Great Organ

The Washington National Cathedral announced yesterday that it has cancelled its plans to replace the aging Aeolian-Skinner organ with a large new instrument by Casavant.  "We have decided, instead, to purchase an electronic organ from Japan," said Michael McCarthy, Director of Music for the Gothic-style cathedral.  "The people of Japan are suffering from a great earthquake and tsunami, and we felt that it would be best for us to provide them with the work of creating a truly global instrument for our great Cathedral."

Plans for the new organ include an impressively-sized console, which most people believe is the actual instrument, according to Cathedral organist, Scott Dettra. "There are some who still look for pipes, and for them, we will leave a pipe fence in front of the speakers to satisfy traditional needs."  The new organ will have six manuals and 543 stops. A unique feature allows it to be played from anywhere in the room with an Apple iPad.  Cathedral staff also were quick to point out that the new instrument will not use any Japanese auto parts.

See Scott Dettra's new recording of the
Washington National Cathedral Great Organ here

___________________________
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: The new erato on April 02, 2011, 12:12:23 AM
Strangely enough it's the 2nd of April where I live!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 02, 2011, 08:51:05 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2011, 11:48:19 AM
You won't regret it. It comes coupled with a closely-related piece, like a sort of curtain-raiser, In ténebras exteriores. (I seem to remember you're Dutch, too. Which library? In Rotterdam?)

Rotterdam, yes.  The central catalogue. I'm a heavy user. :)

Just curious about this one, you know.

I'm mainly a baroque bloke. So it could be a good, could be a bad experience. Let's wait and hear.

Right now it's Pachelbel I'm listening to, played by Gerd Wachowski.
Probably something completely different. ;)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/sw8wa8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 09:03:11 AM
Quote from: Marc on April 02, 2011, 08:51:05 AM
Rotterdam, yes.  The central catalogue. I'm a heavy user.

Just curious about this one, you know.

I'm mainly a baroque bloke. So it could be a good, could be a bad experience. Let's wait and hear.

I borrowed a lot of music there, too, in the late 1990s. If you encounter any skips on the discs, contact me... I love Bach's organ works. Langgaard's music is very different, but his use of the organ is very inventive... Ik ben benieuwd.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 02, 2011, 09:37:36 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 09:03:11 AMI borrowed a lot of music there, too, in the late 1990s. If you encounter any skips on the discs, contact me... I love Bach's organ works. Langgaard's music is very different, but his use of the organ is very inventive... Ik ben benieuwd.

The organ has grown into my fave instrument during the last two years, like it was during my childhood.
I visited some concerts and also had encounters with 19th and 20th century organ music.

Here's a 20th century piece that sometimes can bring me into musical heaven, if I'm in the right mood:

http://www.mediafire.com/?989lfas9u6lklr2

Jan Welmers (*1937), Sequens. Played by Jan Hage on the König organ (1776) in the Stevenskerk, Nijmegen, NL.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 09:46:30 AM
Quote from: Marc on April 02, 2011, 09:37:36 AM
Here's a 20th century piece that sometimes can bring me into musical heaven, if I'm in the right mood:

http://www.mediafire.com/?989lfas9u6lklr2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?989lfas9u6lklr2)

Jan Welmers (*1937), Sequens. Played by Jan Hage on the König organ (1776) in the Stevenskerk, Nijmegen, NL.


Thanks! I'll give it a listen...


Here the opening movement of Messis, as a foretaste...


http://www.mediafire.com/file/nwime2nm2cm/Flemming_Dreisig_Rued_Langgaard_Messis_Organ_drama_5_Mesis__Drama_i_tre_Afterner_for_Orgel_BVN_228__1_Anskriget.mp3
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 02, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 09:46:30 AM
[....]
Thanks! I'll give it a listen...

Here the opening movement of Messis, as a foretaste...

[....]

Thanks to you, too!
Listening right now .... and enjoying it. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 02, 2011, 12:12:54 PM
Thanks J Z and Marc for these examples which I also have downloaded and intend to listen to to morrow.    :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 02:29:47 PM
@Marc Just listened to Jan Welmers' Sequens for the first time. There are some wonderful sounds in that piece. The playing seems to me to be excellent, too. By coincidence I just discovered that several of my musical friends on Facebook know the organist, Jan Hage! I had never heard of him before you gave me that link...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 03, 2011, 02:22:52 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 02, 2011, 02:29:47 PM
@Marc Just listened to Jan Welmers' Sequens for the first time. There are some wonderful sounds in that piece. The playing seems to me to be excellent, too.

I think Sequens works better as a live experience.
My fist encounter with this piece was during a concert of Jan Hage in the Martinikerk, Groningen. At a certain moment, the entire church seemed to be filled with organ and nothing but organ. That was great!

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg
By coincidence I just discovered that several of my musical friends on Facebook know the organist, Jan Hage! I had never heard of him before you gave me that link...

Yes, he's not entirely unknown. ;)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 03, 2011, 02:32:10 AM
Quote from: Marc on April 03, 2011, 02:22:52 AM
I think Sequens works better as a live experience.
My fist encounter with this piece was during a concert of Jan Hage in the Martinikerk, Groningen. At a certain moment, the entire church seemed to be filled with organ and nothing but organ. That was great!


I recognise this. In 1994, 9 May (just looked it up in my notes), my then wife and I were at an organ concert in Notre-Dame, Paris. The organist, Helmschrott, played one of his own pieces, called Méditation 4. This made an enormous impression. The whole church was flooded by sound, which crashed over you from the heights...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on April 03, 2011, 05:20:28 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 03, 2011, 02:32:10 AM

I recognise this. In 1994, 9 May (just looked it up in my notes), my then wife and I were at an organ concert in Notre-Dame, Paris. The organist, Helmschrott, played one of his own pieces, called Méditation 4. This made an enormous impression. The whole church was flooded by sound, which crashed over you from the heights...

When it comes to performance of organ works,  you western and northern Europeans have it made.  You have the churches and you have the organists.  We Americans have few choices.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 03, 2011, 07:48:08 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on April 03, 2011, 05:20:28 AM
When it comes to performance of organ works, you western and northern Europeans have it made. You have the churches and you have the organists. We Americans have few choices.

We'll keep on uploading some stuff from over the ocean once in a while, Coop. ;)

Don't underestimate your fellow countrymen- and women, though!
I can only speak of baroque organ recordings, but that area is definitely not a European only thing.

Of course, the historic instruments are here in Europe, but I have listened with enjoyment to several American organists, like E. Power Biggs, Daniel Chorzempa, Peter Sykes, Elizabeth Harrison, Joan Lippincott and George Ritchie.
And there are many interesting instruments in the USA, built on historical principles.

But I think it is true that most American music lovers are raised in a culture of equal temperament, which means that there aren't that many possibilities for those who like keyboard instruments tuned in meantone (et al) in 17/18th (or earlier) music.

To be honest though: this tuning and temperament stuff isn't really my thing. This (American :)) musician certainly knows more about that:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on April 03, 2011, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Marc on April 03, 2011, 07:48:08 AM
We'll keep on uploading some stuff from over the ocean once in a while, Coop. ;)

Don't underestimate your fellow countrymen- and women, though!
I can only speak of baroque organ recordings, but that area is definitely not a European only thing.

Of course, the historic instruments are here in Europe, but I have listened with enjoyment to several American organists, like E. Power Biggs, Daniel Chorzempa, Peter Sykes, Elizabeth Harrison, Joan Lippincott and George Ritchie.
And there are many interesting instruments in the USA, built on historical principles.

But I think it is true that most American music lovers are raised in a culture of equal temperament, which means that there aren't that many possibilities for those who like keyboard instruments tuned in meantone (et al) in 17/18th (or earlier) music.

To be honest though: this tuning and temperament stuff isn't really my thing. This (American :)) musician certainly knows more about that:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/

Indeed, I have always enjoyed the performance of Daniel Chorzempa.  In fact, I think Chorzempa may have renounced his US citizenship and re-naturalized as an Austrian citizen - he is of Austrian heritage.  E. Power Bigg's style sounds too old-fashioned to me and I have yet to have any serious listen of Joan Lippincott's performance - listened over the web but own no actual recordings ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on May 10, 2011, 11:12:12 AM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/arthausmusik107508.jpg)

New, and currently on offer at Presto (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Arthaus%2BMusik/107508). Has anyone watched this series?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on May 10, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Quote from: Opus106 on May 10, 2011, 11:12:12 AM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/arthausmusik107508.jpg)

New, and currently on offer at Presto (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Arthaus%2BMusik/107508). Has anyone watched this series?

It would have been most interesting if Helmut Walcha was included in the DVD set as well. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on June 26, 2011, 11:34:03 PM
Repost from the French Baroque thread:

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/27/61/0794881346127_600.jpg) (http://organiste.blogs.lalibre.be/media/00/01/2114977848.jpg)

A 3-CD set with the complete organ music of Louis Couperin (1626-1661). Davitt Moroney plays the organ of the Abbaye de Saint-Michel-en-Thiérache, built by Jean Boizard in 1714.

I hate to recommend hard-to-find items, but this issue on Tempéraments (TEM 316001/3 (1995) is really something.... In 1957 a private collector rediscovered 68 unknown organ compositions by Louis Couperin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Couperin), uncle of François. Only in the early nineties a publication of the works was prepared by Davitt Moroney and in these recordings from 1995 he also premiered the music on recording.

And what wonderful music and what wonderful recording it is!  :o :)I'm still discovering the French organ school, but this is surely the best I've heard so far. Louis Couperin emerges as a tremendous organ composer. Pride of place take the two stunning Cycles de Fugues et Fantaisies that take over half of the three disc. They are preceded by just over one disc of more traditional styled music, mostly in plein jeu. These cycles of fugues outshine even any of his efforts for the harpsichord that I have heard. It seems that before it was a similar, smaller cycle of Fugues et caprices by François Roberday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Roberday) was pointed out of being the equivalent from the French baroque of later examples by Bach. However fine that cycle is (more about it later), Louis Couperin is the real thing. Beautiful are these fugues: subtle, inventive, expressive, delectable and very touching. Couperin was befriended with Froberger and was through him exposed to Italian influences which are clearly noticeable in these cycles.
Amazing how a rediscovery of lost music can change the outlook of a composer and of a whole era. :o

Anyway: all organ buffs take heed if this set happens to come your way!

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 01, 2011, 10:07:00 AM
Dutch organist and advisor Jan Jongepier has died of cancer yesterday at the age of 70. He was well-known and admired for his improvisations and also as a teacher, and as advisor for organ restorations and (re)building.
Another sad message for the Dutch organ world, after the premature death of Ewald Kooiman in 2009.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2ptqy3n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 01, 2011, 10:22:58 AM
The Grim Reaper has been busy - a old friend of my father's died of cancer, too, yesterday.  :(
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 01, 2011, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on August 01, 2011, 10:22:58 AM
The Grim Reaper has been busy - a old friend of my father's died of cancer, too, yesterday.  :(

My condolences.
If you feel like comforting yourself with Bach's BWV 565, check out JSB's personal organ thread.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 01, 2011, 10:42:24 AM
Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2011, 10:37:36 AM
My condolences.
If you feel like comforting yourself with Bach's BWV 565, check out JSB's personal organ thread.


Thank you. Perhaps I shall...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on September 26, 2011, 11:19:42 AM
Inspiring ancient organ music played on an ancient organ:

(http://i55.tinypic.com/fkazrc.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/William-Byrd-Clarifica-me-Composer/dp/B000UTOD5E

Léon Berben plays William Byrd on the organ of the Grote Kerk in Oosthuizen, NL. Oldest pipework from early 16th century, rebuilt in the 2nd half of the 17th century by Pieter Backer. Recently restored by Flentrop organ builders.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Geo Dude on October 05, 2011, 02:36:12 PM
Anyone interested in a contemporary composer's organ works should look into the recording The Music of Dan Locklair (http://www.amazon.com/Music-Dan-Locklair/dp/B0039OC0LG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1317853840&sr=1-1).  It's good stuff.  I'll post some more detailed thoughts once I give it a re-listen.

(http://www.sequenza21.com/calendar/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/DLLoftCDCover110.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Rinaldo on October 05, 2011, 04:24:45 PM
Organ thread and no mention of Petr Eben? Here, let me fix that:

http://www.youtube.com/v/NmbxcTBqJZI

Schiager's cycle on Hyperion (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/c.asp?c=C1122&vw=dc) is tremendous.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on October 05, 2011, 05:23:26 PM
Many thanks for introducing us (or at least me) to Petr Eben!

I came across this performance on YouTube of the last half of Julius Reubke's incredible Sonata on the 94th Psalm.

Anna Schorr, apparently a student in Munich:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7DufAzljZ50


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 06:02:14 AM
Anyone know which organ / church (?) this is?

(http://ru.fishki.net/picsw/112011/24/pics/pics-0073.jpg)

First I vaguely thought "Alp D'Huez" (because of the natural light from above), but that's not it, of course...

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 06:29:42 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 06:02:14 AM
Anyone know which organ / church (?) this is?

(http://ru.fishki.net/picsw/112011/24/pics/pics-0073.jpg)

First I vaguely thought "Alp D'Huez" (because of the natural light from above), but that's not it, of course...



In the internetz, it goes by the name of the "Seven Story Slide at the St. Louis Museum" or something along those lines.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 07:21:24 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 06:29:42 AM
In the internetz, it goes by the name of the "Seven Story Slide at the St. Louis Museum" or something along those lines.

How did you findz it so quickly?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 07:24:14 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 07:21:24 AM
How did you findz it so quickly?

da googlz ma frnd <3
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 07:29:04 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 07:24:14 AM
da googlz ma frnd <3

A googlz meself, but nuh findin' nottin. What search terms did you use?

Incidentally I'm a bit disappointed; I though the bit that turns out to be the staircase was part of the Wurlitzer, in some weird, strange, modern-yet-old crazy fashion.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 07:35:18 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on November 25, 2011, 07:29:04 AM
A googlz meself, but nuh findin' nottin. What search terms did you use?

My input was your picture. :)

http://www.google.com/insidesearch/searchbyimage.html

Quote
Incidentally I'm a bit disappointed; I though the bit that turns out to be the staircase was part of the Wurlitzer, in some weird, strange, modern-yet-old crazy fashion.

My initial suspicion was photoshopping by someone with a weird sense of humour.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 18, 2011, 01:01:23 AM
Organ music lovers! :)

After the (re)discovery of Georg Böhm's wonderful harpsichord repertoire (Mitzi Meyerson's set is still available at amazing bargain price HERE (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Georg-B%F6hm-1661-1733-Die-Claviersuiten-Gesamtaufnahme/hnum/9979369)) I've decided to give his works for organ a try.

Any views on the recordings available?? :)

Just released is a twofer by Friedhelm Flamme. And then there are the two separate discs by Josef Sluys, which on sampling sound pretty good/competitive in comparison.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203750122.jpg)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4011222323422.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4011222323736.jpg)

Then there is a re-releas of a single disc by Foccroulle:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/5400439003194.jpg)

And some dark horses: Mikkelsen on Kontrapunkt and a Naxos series that is presumably in progress?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZtQGYm36L._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61XbxN9q0jL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qB1uvHPQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)


Frankly, I'd wish Leon Berben had recorded it - based on his recent Bach recordings, I would snap that up just like that! :D

Q




Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 24, 2011, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on December 18, 2011, 01:01:23 AM
Organ music lovers! :)

After the (re)discovery of Georg Böhm's wonderful harpsichord repertoire [..] I've decided to give his works for organ a try.

Any views on the recordings available?? :)

Any opinions are welcome! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 24, 2011, 12:57:03 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on December 24, 2011, 12:32:07 AM
Any opinions are welcome! :)

Relax bro.
Last month I switched to harpsichord, vocal and pop music, so .... ;)

Dunno all these issues, a.o. Mikkelsen. But he's very good in Bruhns, so I think you can't go wrong with him. His Böhm is on my (extremely long) wish-list.
The same goes for the Flamme twofer.

Foccroulle is, as always, more than reliable. Always convincing in registration, articulation and phrasing. He's my 'Herreweghe' on the organ. :) And what a magnificent organ this one in Alkmaar is!

The Naxos series is, I'm afraid, not really developing. But this single disc is (again) worthwhile having. Teeuwsen is playing the Reil-organ of the Bovenkerk in Kampen (so not the famous Hinsz), but this is a beautiful intrument, too.

The Sluys discs are very interesting indeed: magnificent organs!

These are my vague memories from about 2 months back (and earlier).
If they're still valid and trustworthy .... dunno.

Merry Christmas to all!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 25, 2011, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on December 18, 2011, 01:01:23 AM
]Any views on the recordings available?? :)

I am on my way through some of these, report after X-mas.
 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 25, 2011, 11:06:09 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 24, 2011, 12:57:03 AM
Relax bro.
...Mikkelsen. But he's very good in Bruhns, so I think you can't go wrong with him.

Do you own his Bruhns twoofer?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 25, 2011, 12:14:28 PM
Dunno about a twofer.
One doesn't need a twofer to perform Bruhns' (survived) complete organ works. ;D

Or are you referring to a combined organ/harpsichord 2-cd set ....?

Anyway: I have this one (recommended!), thanks to the library, or maybe even thanks to some friend .... my memory fails me ;):

(http://i39.tinypic.com/1izdjc.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Organ-Works-Sven-Ingvart-Mikkelsen/dp/B000025ZDH/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 25, 2011, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: Marc on December 25, 2011, 12:14:28 PM
Dunno about a twofer.
One doesn't need a twofer to perform Bruhns' (survived) complete organ works. ;D

As far as I know, Bruhns left no harpsichord works. Sorry. I am confusing Bruhns´organ works with another prominent organ composers works on a twoofer played by the equally eminent Mikkelsen. I´ll let you know more in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 29, 2011, 12:41:23 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 24, 2011, 12:57:03 AM
Relax bro.
Last month I switched to harpsichord, vocal and pop music, so .... ;)

Quote from: (: premont :) on December 25, 2011, 11:04:39 AM
I am on my way through some of these, report after X-mas.

Thank you both, gentlemen! :) :)

And the plot thickens with the recent release I discovered of Böhm's complete organ works by Stef Tuinstra, a name I am familiar with from the complete Sweelinck set.

(http://www.landgoedgerianna.nl//images/stories/Recensie-6/img4ee065797e6c0.jpg)

Samples HERE (http://www.refdag.nl/muziek/muzieknieuws/stef_tuinstra_wil_georg_bohm_uit_de_schaduw_halen_1_605803). More info on the recording and possibility to order HERE (http://www.documuziekproductie.nl/index.php?linkid=160) (in Dutch). Tuinstra plays the big Arp-Schnitger organ of the St. Jacobikirche in Hamburg.

I listened to the samples of a few of the recordings mentioned. Tuinstra seems of the stately and well considered Old School, and I have my doubts of the "orchestral approach" he seeks on that big organ really works... Mikkelsen sounds nice, but definitely not the right organs for me. Josef Sluys (Arts Musici) on the other hand, plays very much the right organs which sound marvelous. I also like his style, though his tempi are still on the conservative side - but primarily his tempi, his registrations are very colourful. Friedhelm Flamme (CPO) ...an issue is that the samples on jpc are too damn short.... ::) The Creutzburg organ from Duderstadt sounds very nice, but is it the right choice for the repertoire? Perhaps our resident experts can tell us more. :) Another thing is that Flamme's playing, which is in full and modern HIP-style, sounds rather comfortable for music in the Stylus Phantasticus style. And if it is one thing I learned from the harpsichord works, Böhm music needs a daring, highly imaginative approach, befitting the style of the music. I haven't listened to Foccroulle yet.

Meanwhile I saw that premont has purchased the CPO-set by Friedhelm Flamme - I can't for your comments! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on December 30, 2011, 10:46:47 AM
Quote from: Cato on October 05, 2011, 05:23:26 PM
Many thanks for introducing us (or at least me) to Petr Eben!

I came across this performance on YouTube of the last half of Julius Reubke's incredible Sonata on the 94th Psalm.

Anna Schorr, apparently a student in Munich:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7DufAzljZ50

That was filmed during the first part of the finals of the Organ Competition at the ARD Music Competition...  The Reubke is one of Sir Simon Preston's favorite organ pieces.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on December 30, 2011, 11:05:45 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 30, 2011, 10:46:47 AM
That was filmed during the first part of the finals of the Organ Competition at the ARD Music Competition...  The Reubke is one of Sir Simon Preston's favorite organ pieces.

Thanks for bring back Cato's post -- I overlooked the video for some reason earlier, but now watched (the footwork, especially!) and listened to the piece (or at least 9 minutes of it). That was one wild fugue to finish it off!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jake on January 30, 2012, 02:02:01 PM
Hi all!

I'm a constant lurker but rarely post. It's a nasty habit I have...

Today, my posting couldn't be helped. A few weeks ago I received the three volumes which compose Naxos' recording of Das Buxheiner Orgelbuch and am quite taken. The liner notes and other sources around the internet hint that there are books of other, even earlier organ music out there. This excites me but I can't seem to find any recordings of them (Google hasn't helped much. Maybe I'm not using the right combination of words). Aside from Naxos' own early French, English and Iberian organ discs, do you guy know of any recordings of really, really early organ music? Curious is all. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on January 31, 2012, 10:21:47 AM
Just a quick reaction:

Here's a nice disc I know, early organ music combined with compositions of Arvo Pärt, played by Lorenzo Ghielmi:

http://www.amazon.com/Tintinnabulum-Organ-Works-Arvo-Part/dp/B00005ASY6

Of course there's the famous Susanne van Soldt manuscript, but that's mainly 16th century stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susanne_van_Soldt_Manuscript

And maybe you can get hold of a copy (library?) of this collection, selected by E. Power Biggs. The names of the compositions published in this book might help you with your search on the net.

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Treasury-Of-Early-Organ-Music/1915718

Good luck!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 31, 2012, 12:03:50 PM
Quote from: planetjake on January 30, 2012, 02:02:01 PM

Codex Robertsbridge ca.1360 is as far as I know the earliest manuscript with music designed for organ (keyboard) It contains just six pieces.
Codex Faenza (early 14th century) contains a number of instrumental pieces - mostly for two voices, which probably at least alternatively was played on the organ.
But I think the Buxheimer organ book is the earliest greater collection of music intended for organ.

Here is a recording of one of the three estampies from Codex Robertsbridge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY_duFIJ5oI

And one of the others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnE2MDqYtLw&feature=related
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jake on February 01, 2012, 06:50:19 AM
Magical! Those recordings are really interesting.

I shall investigate further. Thank you both!

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Geo Dude on February 18, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
This recording is wonderful.

[asin]B000001494[/asin]

I was worried that it would be a bit too simplistic and uninteresting, but that's certainly not the case.  I'll definitely be picking up more recordings in this series. (And the other early organ recordings on Naxos!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Leo K. on February 19, 2012, 06:08:08 AM
Quote from: Geo Dude on February 18, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
This recording is wonderful.

[asin]B000001494[/asin]

I was worried that it would be a bit too simplistic and uninteresting, but that's certainly not the case.  I'll definitely be picking up more recordings in this series. (And the other early organ recordings on Naxos!)

That looks interesting, thanks for the heads up!


My latest acquisition is Leonhardt's Sweelinck recording, which my wife got me:

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/msi/full/1/0000104081_170.jpg)

I have not heard yet, and I'm new to Sweelinck!

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Geo Dude on February 19, 2012, 07:36:31 AM
Make sure to give some thoughts on that recording when you get a chance to hear it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 26, 2012, 09:31:22 PM
I've been playing Daniel Chorzempa's record of Mozart K608, the Fantasia for mechanical organ.

This is one of my favourite pieces of music by Mozart, and over the years I've listened to lots, including transcriptions for piano and winds. Up to now I'd contented myself with E Powers Biggs's brash bravura take on the music. It's fun.

Nothing had quite prepared me for what Chorzempa makes of it. There's a depth of feeling here which goes way beyond what I've heard from others. The central passage is extremely inward looking.

It's an old recording but one which I'd somehow passed over.  Then premont mentioned Chorzempa and that set me thinking about him. I've got to know it through spotify, where there are lots of other K 608s. But this one is really standing out at the moment.

K608 is one of Mozart's darker pieces, like the Masonic Funeral Music and K475. It's a masterpiece.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on April 01, 2012, 10:09:08 AM
(http://www.cdeuroxpress.com/images2/845221000220.jpg)
Having recently gotten into Bach's organ music, I downloaded this for contrast. It is quite a contrast.
It's a very interesting sounding instrument. I'm enjoying this earlier (though not "really, really early") organ music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on April 01, 2012, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: milk on April 01, 2012, 10:09:08 AM
Having recently gotten into Bach's organ music, I downloaded this for contrast. It is quite a contrast.

Next, you should probably try Christopher Herrick or Alain II, for a contrast in sound in Bach.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on April 01, 2012, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: Opus106 on April 01, 2012, 10:43:49 AM
Next, you should probably try Christopher Herrick or Alain II, for a contrast in sound in Bach.
For Bach I have some Herrick, Weinberger, and I bought the integral sets from Foccroulle and Walcha.
Alain II might have to wait. But perhaps I'll get there. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on May 08, 2012, 06:55:58 AM
A programme that interests me very much.

[asin]B007X8ZDZE[/asin]

This original program brings together composers from 4 centuries: from Kerll, Couperin, Buxtehude and the monumental Passacaglia in C minor by J.S. Bach, far into the 20-th century with Reger, Shostakovich and Jan Welmers.

Recorded on the magnificent Martti Pothan organ Kotka Church in Sweden, by young virtuoso Matthias Havinga, whose earlier recording on this organ (Brilliant Classics 94203) with Italian Concertos by J.S. Bach received enthusiastic reviews in the press.


Bach, J S: Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor, BWV582
Buxtehude: Passacaglia in D minor, BuxWV161
Couperin, F: Pièces de clavecin II: Ordre 8ème in B minor: Passacaille
Kerll: Passacaglia in D minor -- Edited by C. David Harris
Mendelssohn: Passacaglia in C minor
Reger: Introduction and Passacaglia
Shostakovich: Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk: Passacaglia
Welmers: Passacaglia

Matthias Havinga (Martti Porthan organ in Kotka Church, Sweden)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JaapT on May 22, 2012, 02:24:56 PM
I recently bought Joris Verdin's 2 discs with Cesar Franck's organ works. They are in general enjoyable, but he plays all works much faster than any other version I know. But I must say that a fast tempo for Final works very well, with a slow tempo the whole point of the works seems obscure. Another organ player who played Final quite fast was Jeanne Demessieux (from the early sixties). I must say I like her version better. Verdin tries sometimes to do a bit too much with music, changing tempos, playing with dynamics, which I find every now distracting.

Anybody else some thoughts on Verdin, Demessieux or other interpretations of Franck's works?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 26, 2012, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Opus106 on May 08, 2012, 06:55:58 AM
A programme that interests me very much.

[Passacaglia / Havinga / Brilliant Classics]

This original program brings together composers from 4 centuries: from Kerll, Couperin, Buxtehude and the monumental Passacaglia in C minor by J.S. Bach [....]

[....]

Heard Bach's Passacaglia this evening in the medieval church of Noordbroek (Groningen, NL). American organist Craig Cramer gave a superb performance on the Schnitger organ there. Plus some other titbits from the baroque period, a.o. by Scheidemann, Buxtehude and Böhm. Cramer was in great shape, probably because I wished him good luck beforehand. 0:)

http://www.organists.net/cramer.html

(http://oi46.tinypic.com/mmarrl.jpg)

I will be in Cloud Country Land for some days now. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Kontrapunctus on May 27, 2012, 12:05:11 PM
This new SACD is quite enjoyable--has amazingly clear sound:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ixRypJK3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Tracklist:

Präludium & Fuge BWV 533
Passacaglia BWV 582
Toccata & Fuge BWV 565
Toccata, Adagio & Fuge BWV 564
Choräle BWV 617, 636, 648, 709, 727, 731
Chaconne aus Partita BWV 1004
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: petrarch on July 01, 2012, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: ccar on June 17, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hy9pFg9lZgE/Rd-6CZW7BLI/AAAAAAAAACA/Zy-a6jzVAhs/s320/mafra_convento_1-br.jpg)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eIrNyPm081A/Sxsa12oN0bI/AAAAAAAAAJI/O9bftzK0TaI/s400/Bas%C3%ADlica+de+Mafra.jpg)(http://www.tintafresca.net/_uploads/edi%C3%A7%C3%A3o%2086/Mafra_Orgaos2.JPG)

The Convent of Mafra is a large baroque monastery, built by King John V of Portugal in 1730. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_National_Palace.)
 
The church includes a set of 6 historic baroque organs and 2 carillons, unique in the world. The 6 organs were recently restored and a concert with the complete set was held a few months ago.  This excerpt is only a small aperitif  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet-yGNW-EA&feature=related)

This is now on DVD + book (http://www.althum.com/index.php?cid=__catalogo&prid=*53EF4C6B6B4650180C9ABB00E24A20481A9356CA), a very worthwhile and interesting concert.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: petrarch on July 01, 2012, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Opus106 on May 10, 2011, 11:12:12 AM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/arthausmusik107508.jpg)

New, and currently on offer at Presto (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Arthaus%2BMusik/107508). Has anyone watched this series?

Got it last December. Loved it; great organists, great music, some absolutely fantastic instruments.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on July 01, 2012, 08:20:30 PM
Quote from: petrarch on July 01, 2012, 12:45:34 PM
Got it last December. Loved it; great organists, great music, some absolutely fantastic instruments.

Thanks for letting us know. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on July 08, 2012, 01:29:57 AM
(http://www.abram.no/vfk%20orgelfacade%20011.JPG-for-web-large.jpg)
On Saturday, I was fortunate to attend Masaaki Suzuki's Sweelinck harpsichord and organ recital at Kobe Shoin Women's University Chapel in Kobe, Japan. I had purchased Suzuki's organ recording of Sweelinck a week before the concert. However, I went into the event feeling sorry I wasn't going to hear Bach and thinking that I would experience enough Sweelinck to last me a while. Even though I was equally surprised by my reaction to the harpsichord and the organ parts of the program, I'll limit my comments to the organ. I'm not musically educated and this is only the second organ concert to which I've been. The first was a performance by Lorenzo Ghielmi at Izumi hall in Osaka. Izumi hall is a fairly large concert hall and the organ there is, I believe, a large German-made instrument (I'm guessing it was built to accommodate many periods of music). I have to say that this was the most memorable classical recital I've ever experienced. Kobe Shoin chapel is small (ovular shaped?) and only accommodates about 250 people. The instrument is described as a copy (built by Mac Garnier) of a 17th century French organ. I was mesmerized by both the sound of the instrument and by Suzuki's performance. I'm not sure how organ aficionados describe it: wonderful clarity; distinct and interesting variety of tones in the registrations? I've never had quite this experience before. It was a powerful experience for me. Perhaps it was the combination of the wonderful instrument, insightful performance and, I suppose, the beauty of Sweenlick's music. During the concert, I was struck by the depth of Sweelinck's toccatas and fantasias. I feel lucky to have been able to experience Suzuki's recital in such an intimate setting on such a beautiful instrument. I hope I have a chance to attend an event like this in the future. I'm guessing that it's rare to see a top-notch performer in such an intimate setting. I'm enjoying Sweelinck a bit more since the concert - although I'd still like an opportunity to hear Suzuki play Bach live on this organ.     
(http://www.shoin.ac.jp/guide/campus/map/img/ind_img02.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 08, 2012, 05:30:26 AM
Quote from: milk on July 08, 2012, 01:29:57 AM
[....]
On Saturday, I was fortunate to attend Masaaki Suzuki's Sweelinck harpsichord and organ recital at Kobe Shoin Women's University Chapel in Kobe, Japan. I had purchased Suzuki's organ recording of Sweelinck a week before the concert. However, I went into the event feeling sorry I wasn't going to hear Bach and thinking that I would experience enough Sweelinck to last me a while. Even though I was equally surprised by my reaction to the harpsichord and the organ parts of the program, I'll limit my comments to the organ. I'm not musically educated and this is only the second organ concert to which I've been. The first was a performance by Lorenzo Ghielmi at Izumi hall in Osaka. Izumi hall is a fairly large concert hall and the organ there is, I believe, a large German-made instrument (I'm guessing it was built to accommodate many periods of music). I have to say that this was the most memorable classical recital I've ever experienced. Kobe Shoin chapel is small (ovular shaped?) and only accommodates about 250 people. The instrument is described as a copy (built by Mac Garnier) of a 17th century French organ. I was mesmerized by both the sound of the instrument and by Suzuki's performance. I'm not sure how organ aficionados describe it: wonderful clarity; distinct and interesting variety of tones in the registrations? I've never had quite this experience before. It was a powerful experience for me. Perhaps it was the combination of the wonderful instrument, insightful performance and, I suppose, the beauty of Sweenlick's music. During the concert, I was struck by the depth of Sweelinck's toccatas and fantasias. I feel lucky to have been able to experience Suzuki's recital in such an intimate setting on such a beautiful instrument. I hope I have a chance to attend an event like this in the future. I'm guessing that it's rare to see a top-notch performer in such an intimate setting. I'm enjoying Sweelinck a bit more since the concert - although I'd still like an opportunity to hear Suzuki play Bach live on this organ. 
[....]   

Sounds like a great experience indeed. Sweelinck's music is fantastic IMHO. In May, I attended a Sweelinck concert in the village church of Zeerijp, on a 17th century organ (by Th. Faber, A.D. 1651), played by Stef Tuinstra, and that was something quite special.

(http://thumbnails78.imagebam.com/20061/19e1b4200605073.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/19e1b4200605073)

This next box is a gem. About a year ago there were several opportunities to get it for a nice price ....

http://www.amazon.com/Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck-Complete-Keyboard/dp/B000065618/

These Naxos discs (with Glen Wilson on harpsichord and James David Christie on organ) are very worthwhile, too:

http://www.amazon.com/Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck-Music-Harpsichord/dp/B0020MSTH2/
http://www.amazon.com/Sweelinck-Organ-Works-Jan-Pieterszoon/dp/B000001409/

Btw, I was lucky to hear Suzuki 3 weeks ago in Groningen, NL, playing the historic instrument (a.o. Schnitger/Hinsz) in the Martinikerk. He played Sweelinck, Buxtehude and Bach (a.o. BWV 768 and 582). Another fine experience!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on July 08, 2012, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 08, 2012, 05:30:26 AM
Sounds like a great experience indeed. Sweelinck's music is fantastic IMHO. In May, I attended a Sweelinck concert in the village church of Zeerijp, on a 17th century organ (by Th. Faber, A.D. 1651), played by Stef Tuinstra, and that was something quite special.

(http://thumbnails78.imagebam.com/20061/19e1b4200605073.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/19e1b4200605073)

This next box is a gem. About a year ago there were several opportunities to get it for a nice price ....

http://www.amazon.com/Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck-Complete-Keyboard/dp/B000065618/

These Naxos discs (with Glen Wilson on harpsichord and James David Christie on organ) are very worthwhile, too:

http://www.amazon.com/Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck-Music-Harpsichord/dp/B0020MSTH2/
http://www.amazon.com/Sweelinck-Organ-Works-Jan-Pieterszoon/dp/B000001409/

Btw, I was lucky to hear Suzuki 3 weeks ago in Groningen, NL, playing the historic instrument (a.o. Schnitger/Hinsz) in the Martinikerk. He played Sweelinck, Buxtehude and Bach (a.o. BWV 768 and 582). Another fine experience!
Perhaps I will have to get to the Netherlands! Thanks for these recommendations.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 08, 2012, 09:19:46 PM
Quote from: milk on July 08, 2012, 12:08:53 PM
[....] Thanks for these recommendations.

How could I forget this one? :)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/30m0kz7.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Psalms-Geneva-Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck/dp/B000J10K64/

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/BIS/BISCD1614

http://www.mdt.co.uk/sweelinck-psalms-from-geneva-organ-works-masaaki-suzuki-bis.html

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144597

Reviews:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/psalms-from-geneva-mw0001857312

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/may07/Sweelinck_geneva_biscd1614.htm
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on July 08, 2012, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 08, 2012, 09:19:46 PM
How could I forget this one? :)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/30m0kz7.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Psalms-Geneva-Jan-Pieterszoon-Sweelinck/dp/B000J10K64/

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/BIS/BISCD1614

http://www.mdt.co.uk/sweelinck-psalms-from-geneva-organ-works-masaaki-suzuki-bis.html

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144597

Reviews:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/psalms-from-geneva-mw0001857312

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/may07/Sweelinck_geneva_biscd1614.htm
Apparently, this is the organ I heard. I wonder if there are other copies of baroque organs in Japan. I'm guessing not many.
This is also the location where Suzuki recorded his Bach harpsichord partitas...but that's off topic. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2012, 02:18:20 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 08, 2012, 05:30:26 AM
[....]
Btw, I was lucky to hear Suzuki 3 weeks ago in Groningen, NL, playing the historic instrument (a.o. Schnitger/Hinsz) in the Martinikerk. He played Sweelinck, Buxtehude and Bach (a.o. BWV 768 and 582). Another fine experience!

Masaaki Suzuki: celebrated conductor/harpsichordist/organist and world famous.
Reitze Smits: not so world famous.
But, IMHO, outclassing Suzuki as (Bach-) organist, this evening in the Martinikerk.
Right now I'm still in 7th organ heaven after Smits' Bach/Brahms recital, with a truly heartfelt Bach (Passacaglia and the Gloria chorales BWV 662-66), ending with two Brahms' chorales and a self-made arrangement of the Finale of Brahms' 4th Symphony. That was awesome!

Two Reitze Smits/Bach links (first short clip filmed in the audience):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-8Srv5AZgs
(only the Toccata-part of BWV 565)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caE6Q3WfYYE
(Concerto in G-Major BWV 986)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Roel on July 13, 2012, 12:49:58 PM
Having been a lurker on this forum for one year and a half, I registered today and write my first post.

I live in Groningen, a few minutes walking from the Martinikerk, and visit organ concerts there regularly. I'm fairly new to classical and organ music after having been a metalhead for 20 years (and I still am)

This week I heard the great organ (Schnitger et al.) in many different ways.
On Wednesday evening Reitze Smits played in an emotional way, from melancholic (Brahms) to extroverted (e.g. Bach Gloria BWV 664).
Today there was a good young organist, who played Sei gegrüsset, Jesu gütig. In some variations he used only one or two stops per manual/pedal. From time to time the organ sounded really raw. The last variation was ecstatic. The (this) organ is truly the master of them all.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bhodges on July 13, 2012, 01:04:58 PM
Welkom, Roel! If you like, please feel free to post a little more about yourself in the "Introductions" section.

You will find (or already have) a number of people here who like metal - and organ music, of course.

Anyway, again, welkom en geniet van jezelf.

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 13, 2012, 01:27:02 PM
Hello and welcome, ex-lurker!

Yes, at lunchtime today the young organist Sander van den Houten gave the Martini reed stops every chance to breathe!

Here you can hear and see Van den Houten improvising on the Hinsz-organ of the Broederkerk in Kampen, NL.

http://www.youtube.com/v/SpC6lB569aQ

Quote from: Brewski on July 13, 2012, 01:04:58 PM
Anyway, again, welkom en geniet van jezelf.

Geniet van jezelf .... sounds like another great translation machine! ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on July 29, 2012, 02:20:51 AM
If  you are not  a member of SymphonyShare (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/Symphonyshare), you may not know that one of the members has hunted down, ripped and uploaded 7 volumes of a Nonesuch LP series called "Masterworks for Organ". And he also has uploaded one from a separate disc called "French Organ Masterpieces from the 17th and 18th Centuries".

I do not wish to post the links publicly, since this practice is generally frowned upon, unless stated otherwise explicitly by the uploader.

Here's what the first volume contains:

Jørgen Ernst Hansen (Frobenius Organ, St. Andrew's Church, Copenhagen)

Buxtehude:  Prelude and Fugue in D minor
Tunder:  Chorale Fantasy:  "Komm, Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott"
Bruhns:  Prelude and Fugue in G major
Kneller:  Prelude and Fugue in D minor
Hanff:  Chorale:  "Auf meinen lieben Gott"
Weckmann:  Fantasie in D minor
Böhm:  Chorale:  "Vater unser in Himmelreich"
Brunckhorst:  Prelude and Fugue in E minor
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 15, 2012, 10:22:58 AM
I saw Olivier Vernet play last night in the cathedral at Frejus, just near Saint Tropez. He played some Lully transcriptions, a Mendelssohn prelude and fugue and some French baroque character pieces (titles like "the devil dances" and "Joshua at Jericho") by a composer whose name I forget and some 19th century pieces, also by composers whose names I forgot. Unfortunately I've lost the programme.

The organ is from the late 19th century. It sounded rather metallic and the bass wasn't specially impressive.

I thought the performance was completely lackluster and uninspired. I'm not sure I liked the music much either. In one of the French pieces -- with a title a bit like "March Storms" -- there was a registration change which was so absurd, so stupid, so inappropriate and so striking -- that it's still painfully echoing in my ears.

This was the first organ recital I've been to since I was a kiddie at school, so clearly I'm not a good judge and all the above is probably rubbish.  But I think it was thoroughly inauspicious.

I noticed that Vartolo is playing in the same organ festival, this time in Cuers, with some Bach and Frescobaldi . His recital is obviously a special event (they're even broadcasting it on a giant screen in the forecourt) Unfortunately I'll be in London at the time of that concert, otherwise I would certainly have tried to catch it.

To make things worse on the walk home (a walk of about an hour) the heavens opened and an extremely violent Mediterranean storm reigned. I was totally drenched and I think I've caught a cold. Fuck!!!!!

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: PaulSC on October 22, 2012, 03:11:17 PM
Here's a potentially interesting new release: Walcha in the role of composer rather than performer; Rubsam in the role of performer rather than barber. The first in a projected series of four volumes...

[asin]B00925TBAE[/asin]
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on November 01, 2012, 06:52:27 AM
nice short article with pictures from the Wall Street Journal -  Wendelen Eberle and Rieger organs
at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203630604578072871859674256.html
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 01, 2012, 09:04:05 AM
This Sweelinck disc is tremendous.

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/566030)

Oh by the way can someone tell be how many Sweelinck records Glen Wilson has recorded? I know the one on Naxos, but is there more?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 15, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
Has anyone read this? Does it go into his musical ideas much? Are there any (other?) good things to read about him, in English or French?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515Um1un1CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 16, 2013, 09:28:29 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on July 29, 2012, 02:20:51 AM
If  you are not  a member of SymphonyShare (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/Symphonyshare), you may not know that one of the members has hunted down, ripped and uploaded 7 volumes of a Nonesuch LP series called "Masterworks for Organ". And he also has uploaded one from a separate disc called "French Organ Masterpieces from the 17th and 18th Centuries".

I do not wish to post the links publicly, since this practice is generally frowned upon, unless stated otherwise explicitly by the uploader.

Here's what the first volume contains:

Jørgen Ernst Hansen (Frobenius Organ, St. Andrew's Church, Copenhagen)

Buxtehude:  Prelude and Fugue in D minor
Tunder:  Chorale Fantasy:  "Komm, Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott"
Bruhns:  Prelude and Fugue in G major
Kneller:  Prelude and Fugue in D minor
Hanff:  Chorale:  "Auf meinen lieben Gott"
Weckmann:  Fantasie in D minor
Böhm:  Chorale:  "Vater unser in Himmelreich"
Brunckhorst:  Prelude and Fugue in E minor

Jørgen Ernst Hansen died about a month ago.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 16, 2013, 10:22:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 15, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
Has anyone read this? Does it go into his musical ideas much? Are there any (other?) good things to read about him, in English or French?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515Um1un1CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

It is in French and deals very little with his musical ideas, but preferably with when and where he played or recorded what. A number of his pupils (and spiritual pupils) write about when and where, they met him. There are some photo´s of limited interest to others than Walcha-philes.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 16, 2013, 08:35:00 PM
That's disappointing. His musical voice is so distinctive in the early records at least, it would be good to have a serious study of his ideas, origins, reception, influence etc.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on March 03, 2013, 04:15:39 AM
Found this through the YouTube channel OrganLiveRecordings (http://www.youtube.com/user/OrganLiveRecordings?feature=watch): http://www.paolocrivellaro.com

I happen to have some tape-recordings of a few old (and less old) concerts that I thought to "digitalize" and put on the web.

What a nice thing to do. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 03, 2013, 04:19:44 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on March 03, 2013, 04:15:39 AM
Found this through the YouTube channel OrganLiveRecordings (http://www.youtube.com/user/OrganLiveRecordings?feature=watch): http://www.paolocrivellaro.com

I happen to have some tape-recordings of a few old (and less old) concerts that I thought to "digitalize" and put on the web.

What a nice thing to do. :)

Yep. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on April 03, 2013, 08:57:34 AM
Jozef Sluys' recordings of Böhm's music on Ars Musici. Are they good selections for a first set? (I see two different covers for both volumes, but I assume the recordings are the same.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 03, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on April 03, 2013, 08:57:34 AM
Jozef Sluys' recordings of Böhm's music on Ars Musici. Are they good selections for a first set? (I see two different covers for both volumes, but I assume the recordings are the same.)

Concerning Böhm´s organworks I prefer Christiaan Teeuwsen (one CD Naxos) and Bernard Foccroulle (one CD Ricercare). Both only recorded about one half of Böhm´s ouvre, but in both cases the most important part, and Teeuwsen´s CD is called Vol.1, so maybe a vol. 2 will follow some day.

Sluys (2 CD Ars Musici), Flamme (2 CD CPO) and Stella (4 CD Brilliant - including the harpsichord music) have made complete recordings. I do not know Stella´s recording yet - it is on its way to me from JPC at the moment.

Sluys and Flamme are competent and listenable, but I do not think they capture the spirit of the music quite as well as Teeuwsen and Foccroulle.  Sluys has for one of the CDs the benefit of the Trost-organ in Waltershausen, which may be almost too colourful for Böhm´s music.

The Danish organist Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen has recorded the complete organworks for Kontrapunkt (2 CD). His playing is rather unimaginative and earthbound and the modern organ he uses is unsuited for the job IMO.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 03, 2013, 09:51:47 AM
Remember Christ Lag in Todesbanden played by Leonhardt in St Petersberg in 2011.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on April 03, 2013, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 03, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
Concerning Böhm´s organworks I prefer Christiaan Teeuwsen (one CD Naxos) and Bernard Foccroulle (one CD Ricercare). Both only recorded about one half of Böhm´s ouvre, but in both cases the most important part, and Teeuwsen´s CD is called Vol.1, so maybe a vol. 2 will follow some day.

Sluys (2 CD Ars Musici), Flamme (2 CD CPO) and Stella (4 CD Brilliant - including the harpsichord music) have made complete recordings. I do not know Stella´s recording yet - it is on its way to me from JPC at the moment.

Sluys and Flamme are competent and listenable, but I do not think they capture the spirit of the music quite as well as Teeuwsen and Foccroulle.  Sluys has for one of the CDs the benefit of the Trost-organ in Waltershausen, which may be almost too colourful for Böhm´s music.

The Danish organist Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen has recorded the complete organworks for Kontrapunkt (2 CD). His playing is rather unimaginative and earthbound and the modern organ he uses is unsuited for the job IMO.

Thank you for your suggestions, Premont. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 03, 2013, 09:05:44 PM
Or Stef Tuinstra, with this 3cd-set:

(http://i48.tinypic.com/etvfd2.jpg)

Fully recommended by yours truly.
Convincing informed and expressive organ & harpsichord playing by this Dutch organist.
Instruments: the Schnitger organ of the Jacobikirche in Hamburg, and the Hinsz organ of the Mariakerk in Zandeweer (Groningen, NL). A few pieces are played on a 1728 Christian Zell harpsichord (belonging to the Museum für Kunst und Gewerbe in Hamburg).

Dutch website:

http://www.documuziekproductie.nl/website/cds/b%C3%B6hm

Might be difficult to purchase outside Europe, though.
But if you're interested, you can always send an e-mail to ask for more info:

info@documuziekproductie.nl

Or to the organist himself maybe?

stuinstra@nnoa.nl
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 03, 2013, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: Marc on April 03, 2013, 09:05:44 PM
Might be difficult to purchase outside Europe, though.

Yes, this was why I did not mention it.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on April 04, 2013, 12:55:26 AM
Ooh, tempting. It's always good to know what's out there -- you'll never know where they might turn up. Thank you, Marc. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on April 04, 2013, 04:49:44 AM
This is music I know nothing about. I wonder if anyone out there has heard this recording. Are you a fan of this music? And how about it as an organ transcription?
(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/015/287/0001528759_500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on April 05, 2013, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 15, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
Has anyone read this? Does it go into his musical ideas much? Are there any (other?) good things to read about him, in English or French?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515Um1un1CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)


My understanding is Helmut Walcha was blind most of his life.  How he became such an outstanding organist is beyond my comprehension ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on April 05, 2013, 10:57:20 PM
Quote from: milk on April 04, 2013, 04:49:44 AM
This is music I know nothing about. I wonder if anyone out there has heard this recording. Are you a fan of this music? And how about it as an organ transcription?
(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/015/287/0001528759_500.jpg)

Venus, organ arrangement by Peter Sykes, as an example, to give you an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_avJDA9EvP8
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 08:24:29 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on April 05, 2013, 06:30:49 PM

My understanding is Helmut Walcha was blind most of his life.  How he became such an outstanding organist is beyond my comprehension ...

André Marchal  was also blind, it's a strange coincidence! 

The book's lovely. It's basically written by someone who just adores Walcha, but the hagiographical element doesn't annoy me too much because there's a sort of naivety, when you read him it's a bit like listening to a child. Not that it's childish -- it's just simple, no agenda other than the enthusiasm he wants to transmit.

A lot of it is just touching - what his house looked like etc. But there's ideas in there too. Here's a rough translation of something from the book:

Quote from: Helmut Walcha : Nuit de Lumière by Joseph Coppey, Jean-Willy Kunz, my translation

Bach's music and the music of those who came before him must, according to Walcha "preserve in its sound something still, calm and concentrated" As an example, he offers the simple recorder, which has limited nuances of intensity. All notes played on an organ offer the same power, and Walcha believes that the intensity of the music resides in this static sonority.


And then he goes on to suggest that these sort of ideas led Walcha to a very purified view of baroque performance practice -- back to urtexts with no dynamic markings, reducing the number of registration changes. That link between an aesthetic conception of early music and Walcha's performance style was new to me. How all this relates to Walcha's actual performance style in recordings is a contentious area I suppose.

Coppey and Kunz get these ideas from a monograph that Walcha published called "The Marvels of Polyphony" which I would like to read, but I just can't find it anywhere in English or French.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on April 06, 2013, 11:34:09 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 08:24:29 AM
André Marchal  was also blind, it's a strange coincidence! 

The book's lovely. It's basically written by someone who just adores Walcha, but the hagiographical element doesn't annoy me too much because there's a sort of naivety, when you read him it's a bit like listening to a child. Not that it's childish -- it's just simple, no agenda other than the enthusiasm he wants to transmit.

A lot of it is just touching - what his house looked like etc. But there's ideas in there too. Here's a rough translation of something from the book:

And then he goes on to suggest that these sort of ideas led Walcha to a very purified view of baroque performance practice -- back to urtexts with no dynamic markings, reducing the number of registration changes. That link between an aesthetic conception of early music and Walcha's performance style was new to me. How all this relates to Walcha's actual performance style in recordings is a contentious area I suppose.

Coppey and Kunz get these ideas from a monograph that Walcha published called "The Marvels of Polyphony" which I would like to read, but I just can't find it anywhere in English or French.

The deaths of Gustav Leonhardt and Marie-Claire Alain earlier this year certainly marked the end of an era for performance of baroque organ works ...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Coopmv on April 06, 2013, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 15, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
Has anyone read this? Does it go into his musical ideas much? Are there any (other?) good things to read about him, in English or French?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515Um1un1CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Is there an English version of this book?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Sammy on April 06, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on April 06, 2013, 11:34:09 AM
The deaths of Gustav Leonhardt and Marie-Claire Alain earlier this year certainly marked the end of an era for performance of baroque organ works ...

How so?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 06, 2013, 04:32:56 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 08:24:29 AM
André Marchal  was also blind, it's a strange coincidence! 
There are many blind organists. Holm Vogel is another example. In Copenhagen there is a school for blind organists, and I think this is a not uncommon occurrence elsewhere.

Quote from: Mandryka
..... a monograph that Walcha published called "The Marvels of Polyphony" which I would like to read, but I just can't find it anywhere in English or French.

It was part of a German book where ca. 20 different musicians each had written maybe 15 pages about themselves, among others Karl Münchinger and Wilhelm Kempff and of course Walcha. It must be more than 30 years since I read it, and I have since long forgotten the title. It was here Walcha wrote about his discovery of the F major invention as a young boy.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 06, 2013, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 08:24:29 AM
And then he goes on to suggest that these sort of ideas led Walcha to a very purified view of baroque performance practice -- back to urtexts with no dynamic markings, reducing the number of registration changes. That link between an aesthetic conception of early music and Walcha's performance style was new to me. How all this relates to Walcha's actual performance style in recordings is a contentious area I suppose.

Certainly. And this is because Walcha´s level of historical information was limited. He created his own style out of the naked score. This does not however detract from the spellbinding effect of his playing, but it demonstrates once again, that Bach´s music works in many different ways of interpretation.

Also Walcha (born 1907) may be considered an important transitional figure between Karl Straube (the Leipzig school) and Anton Heiller and Marie Claire Alain. In a way I find Walter Kraft (born 1905) to be an even more important figure, because his style was much more informed.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 10:31:10 PM
I like that discussion in the book about how, according  to Walcha, baroque music is "still, calm and concentrated", like Gregorian chant, not nuanced in terms of colours and dynamics like Liszt. It made me remember how much I like the later Bach records he made.

Coopmv, as far as I know the book isn't in English.

Premont, I like Kraft's Buxtehude because of its relative calmness and lack of fireworks  (though lately I've been listening to  Vogel more), but somehow I've never got into Kraft's  Bach, I'll have to give it another chance.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 11, 2013, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2013, 10:31:10 PM
........but somehow I've never got into Kraft's  Bach, I'll have to give it another chance.

The Orgelbüchlein - even if scattered over several CDs, some of the Leipzig chorales (fx BWV 656, 658, 659, 660 and 665), Clavierübung III (fx BWV 669 - 671 and 684) and some of the chorale free works fx BWV 543, 544, 546 and 548 might be the ones to persuade you of his style.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 11, 2013, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 11, 2013, 09:07:19 AM
The Orgelbüchlein - even if scattered over several CDs, some of the Leipzig chorales (fx BWV 656, 658, 659, 660 and 665), Clavierübung III (fx BWV 669 - 671 and 684) and some of the chorale free works fx BWV 543, 544, 546 and 548 might be the ones to persuade you of his style.

Well I'm slightly ahead of you in fact because today I was listening to a whole pile of BWV 678, and I was struck by the nobility and the strength of  Kraft. He's definitely moving on my radar for Bach.

By the way I made the Bwv 678 playlist because of two things. One was hearing Matteo Messori's performance, which uses some sort of bell, I don't think it's a cymbelstern, it doesn't tinkle. And the other was reading this comment (unreferenced) in wikipedia

Quote

The pastoral quality in the organ writing for the upper voices at the opening has been interpreted as representing the serenity before the Fall of Man; it is followed by the disorder of sinful waywardness; and finally order is restored in the closing bars with the calm of salvation.


I was interested to see if anyone does anything remotely like Messori (no), or whether anyone brings out this putative disorder (not sure, actually maybe this is a feature of Kraft's reading)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on April 24, 2013, 05:55:01 PM
Is F. Couperin's organ music great?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 17, 2013, 01:11:22 PM
I've started to listen to Gillian Weir's CD of Bruhns. What lovely music, instantly appealing.  Sometimes very noble and comforting, at least in Weir's hands, though you can often hear some very surprising and intesting things in the music, fantasticus style. I'm enjoying what she does. If anyone has any Bruhns records they love then please let me know as I'd like  to explore a bit further.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on May 18, 2013, 06:55:45 AM

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)

Dip Your Ears, No. 138 (Mendelssohn Organ Works)
(http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/05/dip-your-ears-no-138-mendelssohn-organ.html)
QuoteFelix Mendelssohn B. was fond of organs and organ music and wrote idiomatically for the instrument. You
just can't hear it in his other compositions (think Bruckner, for contrast), and since you just about never hear
Mendelssohn's organ music in recital or concert either, that part of his output—limited as it is—remains ignored.
A pity, I suppose, since his organ writing, like so much of Mendelssohn in any genre, can be uncommonly
attractive...
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/05/dip-your-ears-no-138-mendelssohn-organ.html[/url]
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on May 23, 2013, 07:08:36 AM
I've gone from Bach to modern French organ music. I made two purchases tonight:
(http://pixhost.me/avaxhome/8e/d3/000dd38e_medium.jpeg)
(http://boxset.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/durufle_complete_organ_music.jpg)
I've jumped over romantic organ. I feel like I need to get a good sampler of romantic organ works.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 23, 2013, 01:28:01 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 17, 2013, 01:11:22 PM
I've started to listen to Gillian Weir's CD of Bruhns. What lovely music, instantly appealing.  Sometimes very noble and comforting, at least in Weir's hands, though you can often hear some very surprising and intesting things in the music, fantasticus style. I'm enjoying what she does. If anyone has any Bruhns records they love then please let me know as I'd like  to explore a bit further.

One of the first Bruhns sets I acquired was Helmut Winter´s recording for Harmonia Mundi on the splendid Klappmeyer organ in Altenbruch. I think Winter succeded in making this truly phantastic music sound fresh anew. I have got some other sets, but this remains my favorite.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 23, 2013, 11:06:41 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 23, 2013, 01:28:01 PM
One of the first Bruhns sets I acquired was Helmut Winter´s recording for Harmonia Mundi on the splendid Klappmeyer organ in Altenbruch. I think Winter succeded in making this truly phantastic music sound fresh anew. I have got some other sets, but this remains my favorite.

Thanks. i'll get ir just as soon as I'm back in the UK.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Geo Dude on June 24, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ju5bgdRbL._SY300_.jpg)

Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 09:58:38 AM
Quote from: Geo Dude on June 24, 2013, 10:09:03 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ju5bgdRbL._SY300_.jpg)

Any thoughts on this?

Yes. I've sampled it, mainly when I've been exploring different recordings of the same piece. My impression is that these are very extrovert exciting postive-mood buoyant performances, maybe lacking some of the emotional nuances which others have brought to the music.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Geo Dude on June 25, 2013, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 09:58:38 AM
Yes. I've sampled it, mainly when I've been exploring different recordings of the same piece. My impression is that these are very extrovert exciting postive-mood buoyant performances, maybe lacking some of the emotional nuances which others have brought to the music.



Hmm...given the cheap price point on the market place it sounds like it might complement some of my other recordings well.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Geo Dude on June 25, 2013, 11:03:23 AM
Hmm...given the cheap price point on the market place it sounds like it might complement some of my other recordings well.

Which other recordings have you heard?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 25, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 09:58:38 AM
Yes. I've sampled it, mainly when I've been exploring different recordings of the same piece. My impression is that these are very extrovert exciting postive-mood buoyant performances, maybe lacking some of the emotional nuances which others have brought to the music.

I have listened it all through once some months ago- not enough to judge it properly. Extrovert and a bit superficial was my first impression. In between many other projects I am going through the set once more, and my first reaction to the second listening was, that I found it deeper and more nuanced, than I recalled.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Wakefield on June 25, 2013, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 25, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
I have listened it all through once some months ago- not enough to judge it properly. Extrovert and a bit superficial was my first impression. In between many other projects I am going through the set once more, and my first reaction to the second listening was, that I found it deeper and more nuanced, than I recalled.

Do you have his set of harpsichord works? I have read good reviews (one yours?), but the samples have never convinced me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 25, 2013, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on June 25, 2013, 01:44:56 PM
Do you have his set of harpsichord works? I have read good reviews (one yours?), but the samples have never convinced me.

Even here I can not provide more than a first impression, but my initial reaction was more positive than my first reaction to his Bux organ recording.
I recall concepts like nice and melodious, and many of the suites benefit from that kind of approach.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 26, 2013, 02:30:51 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 25, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
I have listened it all through once some months ago- not enough to judge it properly. Extrovert and a bit superficial was my first impression. In between many other projects I am going through the set once more, and my first reaction to the second listening was, that I found it deeper and more nuanced, than I recalled.

Obviously not everyone plays Buxtehude aiming for lots of  emotional expression, but I do think that if you're not going to play expressively,  then you have to have some other way of making the music  sound interesting. Reiner Oster, for example, doesn't seem particularly emotional, but there's tons of nobility in there.

My impression with Stella is fireworks, thrills and sometimes he makes me smile - as if he finds a bit of comedy in the music, a sense of fun in sound-making. I guess each has to decide for himself whether that does justice to Buxtehude.


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JaapT on July 04, 2013, 02:56:57 PM
Mandryka mentioned whether someone had any recommendations the music of Bruhns. In general Foccroulle is the set to consider, he is always stylish and well informed and he plays on what I consider one of the most beautiful organs I know (unfortuately only from records): the Schnitger organ in Norden.

Having said that, my first encounter with Bruhns was his e-moll preludium played by Piet Kee in Haarlem. I still consider the best performance of this work. It is a CD with works from various composers (Bach, Bruhns, Mendelssohn, Kee). You can buy it second hand: http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/cd-s-en-dvd-s/cd-s-instrumentaal/m691932653-piet-kee-at-st-bavo-haarlem.html?c=8c285449651fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr

Yet another recommendation, but not organ: Bruhns' cantatas beautifully sung by Cantus Cölln.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 02, 2013, 11:59:45 PM
I think that the Reincken Rivers of Babylon fantasy here is wonderful, on the Arp Schnitke at St Jacobi.  It ebbs and flows. For the first time I could hear why it was that JSB liked that music so much

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuXUUQVtr4x0Svo4exrIHp7G9leV-EdT5rsXcB0t6VzQKMuoJ0)

I don't say the rest of the record is so good, and it may well just be that the Reincken only sounds so special because it has been so neglected in recordings up to now (I know that sounds awul, and I don't mean to belittle Jean Claude Zehnder's achievement here.) . Jean Claude Zehnder plays the big Bux chorale 210 and I didn't see that that was so interesting.



Anyway that sent me on a BuxWV 210 hunt, all the usual suspects -- Stella, Bryndhorf, Vogel, Kraft. And the ususal results -- with Kraft delivering a performance which is more my cup of tea than most. Less virtuoso fireworks, more depth. But on spotify two major discoveries in Bux210. First Vernet, and then the completely mind blowing, revealing, revolutionary performance from Julia Brown. Slow, noble, natural and  inevitable progress of the music, this for me is great Bux playing. I'm gonna have to hear more Julia Brown, for sure.

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScRndc6eswa1oT6CMT_cFDZ3ufprfbDJT9xfjzrmAGua7ojHdLwA)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on August 03, 2013, 04:42:16 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 02, 2013, 11:59:45 PM
Anyway that sent me on a BuxWV 210 hunt, all the usual suspects -- Stella, Bryndhorf, Vogel, Kraft. And the ususal results -- with Kraft delivering a performance which is more my cup of tea than most. Less virtuoso fireworks, more depth. But on spotify two major discoveries in Bux210. First Vernet, and then the completely mind blowing, revealing, revolutionary performance from Julia Brown. Slow, noble, natural and  inevitable progress of the music, this for me is great Bux playing. I'm gonna have to hear more Julia Brown, for sure.

If you haven't tried Jean-Charles Ablitzer's Buxtehude yet, I suggest you do.  :) As downloads available on itunes, overview HERE (http://www.harmonicclassics.com/albums/ORGUE/).

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 03, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: Que on August 03, 2013, 04:42:16 AM
If you haven't tried Jean-Charles Ablitzer's Buxtehude yet, I suggest you do.  :) As downloads available on itunes, overview HERE (http://www.harmonicclassics.com/albums/ORGUE/).

Q

No, I haven't heard Ablitzer but I can see he's put his Buxwv 210 on youtube so I can listen easily to how he sees the music.

Re Julia Brown, I just saw that there's a review of her Vol 5 on musicweb which singles out her 210 as something pretty special. I just listened for the first time to her play the g minor prelude (148), I like what I hear, this woman has a face, you know. The performances aren't generalised either, she means what she says. Her tempo choices in both pieces suit me fine.

She used a meantone organ tuning, to some stunning effects in both 210 and 148. The more I listen to baroque music the more I think tuning matters big time.

Oh, and by the way, one thing I'd like to hear is Vogel playing the Reincken Babylon Fantasie. It's on this CD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31RQmyPcGdL._.jpg)

Does anyone know if it's the same as this

(http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/data/articles/images/big/b_15.jpg)

which is available here:

http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/index.php?item=cd_s&action=page&group_id=10&lang=NL
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 03, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 03, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
[....]
Oh, and by the way, one thing I'd like to hear is Vogel playing the Reincken Babylon Fantasie. It's on this CD

(http://102.imagebam.com/download/afFZYHI4Mp4g_M1D3YzP6w/26872/268713033/31RQmyPcGdL__.jpg)

Does anyone know if it's the same as this

(http://104.imagebam.com/download/GoqMTca8N2CsGMbIPKyyeg/26872/268713030/31RQmyPcGdLo__.jpg)

which is available here:

http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/index.php?item=cd_s&action=page&group_id=10&lang=NL

I own the second one mentioned, and it's a very fine disc with recordings Vogel made in the 70s and 80s for Radio Bremen. The first disc has got a slightly different selection of compositions played, so I can't tell you if the Reincken Babylon Fantasie is the same recording. Your question made me curious, too. That's why I just ordered that first one (Opera Omnia 1) at the library. Maybe in a week or 10 days I can tell you more.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 13, 2013, 08:30:49 PM
Quote from: Marc on August 03, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
I own the second one mentioned, and it's a very fine disc with recordings Vogel made in the 70s and 80s for Radio Bremen. The first disc has got a slightly different selection of compositions played, so I can't tell you if the Reincken Babylon Fantasie is the same recording. Your question made me curious, too. That's why I just ordered that first one (Opera Omnia 1) at the library. Maybe in a week or 10 days I can tell you more.

No the same recordings. The first one mentioned is from 1991. It's slower, with different registrations. Both performances are a joy to listen joy. So: in either case, no money is thrown away. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on September 15, 2013, 11:17:20 PM
(http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/165/8999165.jpg)
Looks interesting.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on September 16, 2013, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: milk on September 15, 2013, 11:17:20 PM
(http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/165/8999165.jpg)
Looks interesting.


Sure, provided we can figure out what is to be seen on that tiny picture! :laugh:

How is this? ;)

[asin]B00DIGYVLM[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on September 16, 2013, 09:17:34 AM
How is this? ;)

[asin]B00DIGYVLM[/asin]

Q
[/quote]
Indubitably better! ;D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Opus106 on September 16, 2013, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: milk on September 16, 2013, 09:17:34 AM
Indubitably

Way off-topic: I can't read or hear that word without being reminded of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ubVBK3cKanw#t=269). ;D

Now, back to Leighton's disc...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on September 20, 2013, 12:19:37 PM
New release. It is hard to get my head around this: ArsMusici licensing 10 recordings to be sold by Membran in a box set for 13 euros...?? ??? ::) :)

Amazing..... :D

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0885150337936.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/0885150337936.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on September 20, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Niche market recordings will do that sometimes.  And I think any set which includes entries such as "Organ Music for Four Hands and Four Feet" and "Transylvanian Organ Music from the Renaissance to the Present"
qualifes as a niche market recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on September 21, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
Quote from: Que on September 20, 2013, 12:19:37 PM
New release. It is hard to get my head around this: ArsMusici licensing 10 recordings to be sold by Membran in a box set for 13 euros...?? ??? ::) :)

Amazing..... :D

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0885150337936.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/0885150337936.jpg)

Q

I own much of  this already, but the low price justifies the purchase to acquire the rest. Have you got any link to this release?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on September 21, 2013, 11:59:32 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 21, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
I own much of  this already, but the low price justifies the purchase to acquire the rest. Have you got any link to this release?

I guess I'm lucky to own none...  ;D ;) Which ones do you have and are they any good? :)

To me it seems that the Zipoli/Ghielmi disc alone should be sufficient to justify the price of admission. Other than that I see some recitals that should be nice and interesting at the least (1-4, 6 & 9)?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Famous-Organ-Music-from-Europe/hnum/2829815

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on September 22, 2013, 06:41:56 AM
Quote from: Que on September 21, 2013, 11:59:32 PM
I guess I'm lucky to own none...  ;D ;) Which ones do you have and are they any good? :)

To me it seems that the Zipoli/Ghielmi disc alone should be sufficient to justify the price of admission. Other than that I see some recitals that should be nice and interesting at the least (1-4, 6 & 9)?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Famous-Organ-Music-from-Europe/hnum/2829815

Q

I own vol. 1, 2, 4 and 5 (Zipoli is nice music , not that "great" but well played - I payed as much for it as this box costs). Vol. 1, 4 and 5 are excellent, while vol. 2 is somewhat colorless, like most I have heard from Radulescu.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 14, 2014, 08:44:01 AM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/12/29/3610154772912_600.jpg)

Found on spotify, a release made just a couple of weeks ago I think by the Bibliotheque Nationale de France of her 1956 recording of de Grigny's 1er Livre D'Orgue. The performances seem intense and engrossing.

Can someone comment on the Erato recordings that she made? There's a transfer of this early recording made by Qobuz as part of their studio masters series. Has anyone heard it?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 14, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2014, 08:44:01 AM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/12/29/3610154772912_600.jpg)

Found on spotify, a release made just a couple of weeks ago I think by the Bibliotheque Nationale de France of her 1956 recording of de Grigny's 1er Livre D'Orgue. The performances seem intense and engrossing.

Can someone comment on the Erato recordings that she made? There's a transfer of this early recording made by Qobuz as part of their studio masters series. Has anyone heard it?

She recorded the Livre d´orgue by Grigny several times. This link may provide some information:

http://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.eng.rch&org=%22Marie-Claire+ALAIN%22&tit=&oeu=de+grigny&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Search&edi=&nrow=80

I own the Sarlat recording (1967) on LP, and I have owned the Chaise-Dieu recording (1980) on LP but parted with the latter when I changed to CD for good, thinking that the Sarlat recording is much superior. I also own one half of the Poitiers recording (1996) thanks to a kind member of this forum. I have never heard the Paris St. Merry recording (1956).

Actually she also recorded an almost complete Bach integral (we may call it Alain 0 as opposed to Alain I, II and III) on the St.Merry organ, Paris in the 1950es, but this is the first time I have seen any of her St. Merry recordings released on CD. I consider this rather French type organ better suited for Grigny than for Bach, but I have not investigated the topic further, since it would demand a lot of resources, and I believe, that these early recordings are going to disappoint us, who know her later recordings of the same music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 14, 2014, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 14, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
She recorded the Livre d´orgue by Grigny several times. This link may provide some information:

http://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.eng.rch&org=%22Marie-Claire+ALAIN%22&tit=&oeu=de+grigny&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Search&edi=&nrow=80

I own the Sarlat recording (1967) on LP, and I have owned the Chaise-Dieu recording (1980) on LP but parted with the latter when I changed to CD for good, thinking that the Sarlat recording is much superior. I also own one half of the Poitiers recording (1996) thanks to a kind member of this forum. I have never heard the Paris St. Merry recording (1956).

Actually she also recorded an almost complete Bach integral (we may call it Alain 0 as opposed to Alain I, II and III) on the St.Merry organ, Paris in the 1950es, but this is the first time I have seen any of her St. Merry recordings released on CD. I consider this rather French type organ better suited for Grigny than for Bach, but I have not investigated the topic further, since it would demand a lot of resources, and I believe, that these early recordings are going to disappoint us, who know her later recordings of the same music.

Ah. This is the sort of thing I like -- great music and lots of different performances by a fine musician.

I've just ordered this, though I've actually no clear idea of the date of the recording. Nearly all of her Erato recordings of de Grigny have disappeared as far as I can see -- I'l have to wait till they come out again as downloads.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61VEf99yHDL._SY450_.jpg)

In the meantime I'll try to listen to Isoir. I haven't managed to get into the way Verlet plays de Grigny, but I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 14, 2014, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2014, 11:18:21 AM
I've just ordered this, though I've actually no clear idea of the date of the recording. Nearly all of her Erato recordings of de Grigny have disappeared as far as I can see -- I'l have to wait till they come out again as downloads.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61VEf99yHDL._SY450_.jpg)

In the meantime I'll try to listen to Isoir. I haven't managed to get into the way Verlet plays de Grigny, but I'll give it another shot.

The Alain you ordered is the Poitiers recording (1996), her last recording of the work.

I am not a great fan of Isoir - his performance is too polished to my taste. I have not listened to Vernet more than once, so I am in your situation. Among a few others I also own a recording by my countryman Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen on the organ of St. Maxim in Provence. This is one of the most colorful recordings of the Livre I know. This organ is a splendid vehicle for Grigny´s music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 15, 2014, 12:04:58 AM
Quote from: Que on September 20, 2013, 12:19:37 PM
New release. It is hard to get my head around this: ArsMusici licensing 10 recordings to be sold by Membran in a box set for 13 euros...?? ??? ::) :)

Amazing..... :D
Q

  Generally Membran doesn't license anything. In Germany music copyright expires after 50 years, or so I understand from reading about this particular label. Their best stuff is generally 51 years old ;)
   BTW, I'm not criticizing them. I LOOOOOVE membran, and own over 400 of their discs. (the Meister Konzerte 100 CD box is my favorite historical classical box. The 100 CD Modern Jazz is also awesome).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on February 15, 2014, 03:31:44 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 15, 2014, 12:04:58 AM
  Generally Membran doesn't license anything...

They don't license anything... and they're cavalier about stealing other label's remasterings. Shoddy, cheap, and semi-legal.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 16, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 14, 2014, 11:59:25 AM
The Alain you ordered is the Poitiers recording (1996), her last recording of the work.

I am not a great fan of Isoir - his performance is too polished to my taste. I have not listened to Vernet more than once, so I am in your situation. Among a few others I also own a recording by my countryman Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen on the organ of St. Maxim in Provence. This is one of the most colorful recordings of the Livre I know. This organ is a splendid vehicle for Grigny´s music.

I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses. Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen seemed too consistently severe. To take an example, I thought there was more of a sense of mystery in the big five part fugue in Pange Lingue in Isoir than in  Mikkelson.  Isoir seemed more humane, forgiving, loving in the 4 part fugue in the Ave Maris Stella: that seemed to find the necessary emotional contrast with the music which preceded it, and to reflect the hymn's idea of Mary as someone who can "Dissolve the chains of the guilty, proffer light to the blind. . . "  Don should listen to Mikkelsen if he's interested in the music and doesn't know it already, it strikes me as a performance he may well appreciate.

I didn't like the singing on Mikkelsen's recording, which seemed a saccharine. I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

Another recording which I enjoyed was Bernard Coudurier's.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 16, 2014, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 16, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses. Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen seemed too consistently severe. To take an example, I thought there was more of a sense of mystery in the big five part fugue in Pange Lingue in Isoir than in  Mikkelson.  Isoir seemed more humane, forgiving, loving in the 4 part fugue in the Ave Maris Stella: that seemed to find the necessary emotional contrast with the music which preceded it, and to reflect the hymn's idea of Mary as someone who can "Dissolve the chains of the guilty, proffer light to the blind. . . "  Don should listen to Mikkelson if he's interested in the music and doesn't know it already, it strikes me as a performance he may well appreciate.

Maybe I am biased concerning Isoir. Or maybe I prefer this music played a little more severe than Isoir does.

Quote from: Mandryka
I didn't like the singing on Mikkelsen's recording, which seemed a saccharine. I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

A CD with liturgical organ music is an abstraction, which IMO cannot recreate the atmosphere of the past, so generally I do not find singing relevant in this context. One can read the text, if one wants to know, what the music is supposed to express.

Quote from: Mandryka
Another recording which I enjoyed was Bernard Coudurier's.

Unfortunately I only own his recording of the Mass which I have enjoyed (you reminded me of the importance of completing the set with the Hymns).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 17, 2014, 03:03:45 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 16, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses.

I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

There is no singing on the recording by Isoir, which I own, so I wonder, if we are talking about different recordings.

Maybe you are talking about this (if it really is another recording):
http://www.amazon.fr/Les-Cinq-hymnes-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B00005BCWG/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680291&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=isoir+grigny

I am talking about this (Mass):
http://www.amazon.de/Grigny-Messe-Isoir/dp/B000025V1M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-2&keywords=isoir+grigny

and this (Hymns):
http://www.amazon.de/Werke-von-Grigny-Marchand-Isoir/dp/B0000264YK/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-4&keywords=isoir+grigny

These two CDs were recorded by Calliope 1972 on two different organs mentioned on the cover.

My main problem with this recording by Isoir is, that he plays general legato and that often suppresses the counterpoint by highlighting the cantus, making the music sound more homophone. This is particularly the case with plenum pieces and pieces, where the hymn is played on the pedal trumpet stop. This is what I mean, when I write polished, as many of the details are underplayed. His interpretation of the hymns sounds IMO generally better than the Mass, maybe reflecting that the Isnard organ in St. Maxim, Provence has got a better tonal balance than the Clicquot organ in Poitiers.

BTW the St. Maxim organ was also used for the recordings of the Livre d ´orgue by Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen and Pierre Bardon. The latter is the principal organist at that organ, if he hasn´t retired by now.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 17, 2014, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 17, 2014, 03:03:45 PM
There is no singing on the recording by Isoir, which I own, so I wonder, if we are talking about different recordings.

Maybe you are talking about this (if it really is another recording):
http://www.amazon.fr/Les-Cinq-hymnes-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B00005BCWG/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680291&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=isoir+grigny

I am talking about this (Mass):
http://www.amazon.de/Grigny-Messe-Isoir/dp/B000025V1M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-2&keywords=isoir+grigny

and this (Hymns):
http://www.amazon.de/Werke-von-Grigny-Marchand-Isoir/dp/B0000264YK/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-4&keywords=isoir+grigny

These two CDs were recorded by Calliope 1972 on two different organs mentioned on the cover.

My main problem with this recording by Isoir is, that he plays general legato and that often suppresses the counterpoint by highlighting the cantus, making the music sound more homophone. This is particularly the case with plenum pieces and pieces, where the hymn is played on the pedal trumpet stop. This is what I mean, when I write polished, as many of the details are underplayed. His interpretation of the hymns sounds IMO generally better than the Mass, maybe reflecting that the Isnard organ in St. Maxim, Provence has got a better tonal balance than the Clicquot organ in Poitiers.

BTW the St. Maxim organ was also used for the recordings of the Livre d ´orgue by Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen and Pierre Bardon. The latter is the principal organist at that organ, if he hasn´t retired by now.

Ah yes, the Grigny CD I have is indeed different, this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gH3D4MNyL._SX355_.jpg)

Mikkelsen's sound is definitely sharper than Isoir's, and hence I suppose the counterpoint is clearer - the pedals especially seem  more in forcus with Mikkelsen.

Anyway, I've made another de Grigny discovery, the Veni Creator Spiritus played by Marc Schaefer, on the (wonderful) J A silbermann organ in Villingen Church - CD 6 of that Membran big box which was discussed above. One thing that's taught me is how well the music works a suite  (and I learnt from Neu's Muffat how a S. German Toccata is a suite)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 18, 2014, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 17, 2014, 10:56:20 PM
Ah yes, the Grigny CD I have is indeed different, this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gH3D4MNyL._SX355_.jpg)

When and where was this CD (twofer?) recorded? I suppose it is a substantial improvement compared to the Calliope recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 18, 2014, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 18, 2014, 12:55:04 PM
When and where was this CD (twofer?) recorded? I suppose it is a substantial improvement compared to the Calliope recording.

It was reorded in 1992 at the Abaye de Saint Michel in Thiérache. I haven't heard the one you have on Calliope.  It is a twofer, and it includes a motet by Charpentier after the elevation and one by Lully after the Deo Gratis.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 20, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
It's interesting just listening today to Vernet and Isoir (Erato) playng the de Grigny mass - Isoir spirited and bold, and Vernet much more weighty, solemn. It unbelievable music, I feel very enthusiastic about it. I kept thinking of Schnabel and Badura Skoda in the largo of op 10/3 - Schnabel weighty and full of mystical wisdom (Schnabel's Vernet) and Badura Skoda plays it like music written by a young man having a bit of an emotional crisis (PBS is Isoir.) De Grigny was hardly bowed down by the wisdom and cares of age when he wrote this mass, at least not in MY imagination. Anyway, I'm keeping hold of both - both fantastic in their way.

Can you imagine going to a mass and hearing this? I searched the web for someone playing it, the whole thing with a priest and chanting. But no.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Sammy on February 20, 2014, 10:57:26 AM
I have two highly enjoyable sets of Grigny's BK. 1 - Chapuis on Astree (1976) and John Grew on Atma (1997-98).  Both are likely oop.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 20, 2014, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Sammy on February 20, 2014, 10:57:26 AM
I have two highly enjoyable sets of Grigny's BK. 1 - Chapuis on Astree (1976) and John Grew on Atma (1997-98).  Both are likely oop.

I was fortunate to find the John Grew set at Amazon.fr, so trusting your words I ordered it. I also found the Chapuis recording there, but it is much too expensive.

http://www.amazon.fr/Grigny-Livre-dorgue/dp/B00000IACZ/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392931025&sr=1-13&keywords=grigny

http://www.amazon.fr/GRIGNY-Livre-orgue-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B000027OJ9/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392931070&sr=1-2&keywords=grigny+chapuis
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 25, 2014, 08:31:08 AM
I'm finding myself getting increasingly interested in German Renaissance organ music. I can't explain why,  I think the music is strong and emotionally open and forthright, not without contrapuntal and harmonic interest. The CDs I've enjoyed most have been Jaroslav Tüma's recording with music by the Hassler Brothers and Joseph Kelemen's CD of music from the Buxheimer Orgelbuch (I've ordered Ton Koopman's Buxheimer record.) I can listen to the music on Keleman's CD for a long time without getting bored. Also Kimberly Marshall's CD of music by Arnolt Schlick (I've just ordered her renaissance compilation CD called Gothic Pipes) Generally I've  found Tachezi's compilation CDs useful.

Glen Wilson has a fascinating and fabulous recording of music published by Elias Ammerbach. Extraordinary sounds. It would be great to have that music on organ!

Anyway I know this music is rarely discussed here - maybe I'm the only one who appreciates it. But I thought it was worth posting just in case anyone can put me on to some good books or recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2014, 11:34:11 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xvKQRA1bSBg/TekIV3xyePI/AAAAAAAAAGY/pyGhWO8CSSs/s1600/back.jpg)

Gillian Weir plays Roberday on the organ St Leonhardskirch in Basel, by J A Silbermann.

Like Leonhardt and Walcha, she is a serious musician. She avoids shallow musical effects. Her style is measured, noble and somewhat introspective. My bet is that the tuning is not meantone, and hence the dissonances are smoothed out. That may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing. I find the richness and grandeur of the organ not altogether to my liking.

What I will say is that the performance is much more challenging than Chapuis in the same music, just because Chapuis is ready to play for effects and to highlight his own virtuosity. For Weir, that sort of behaviour is unthinkable, anathema. What I'm not yet sure about is whether there's enough content to these fugues to justify her introspective austerity. The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 30, 2014, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 29, 2014, 11:34:11 PM
The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.

So, still on the hunt for perfection.  :) Honestly, I think Isoir did a fine job and got fair value out of these pieces by Roberday. Not suggesting that it couldn't be bettered upon, but performances are thin on the ground..It also might be the case that you have higher expectations of this music than I do? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 30, 2014, 12:23:05 AM
Quote from: Que on March 30, 2014, 12:01:17 AM
So, still on the hunt for perfection.  :) Honestly, I think Isoir did a fine job and got fair value out of these pieces by Roberday. Not suggesting that it couldn't be bettered upon, but performances are thin on the ground..It also might be the case that you have higher expectations of this music than I do? :)

Q

Maybe. Look, I have the recording by Weir so why not try to make sense of what she was doing? Sure, Roberday isn't as great as Frescobaldi or Froberger, and maybe you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  The approach of the musician is sufficienty original and coherent and considered as to be worth trying to understand nontheless.

As far as "thin on the ground" is concerned, he doesn't do much worse in organ music than L Couperin or Titelouze or Attaignant or Lebègue or Louis Marchand does he? I mean, early French music is an obscure little niche.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 30, 2014, 12:57:11 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 30, 2014, 12:23:05 AM
As far as "thin on the ground" is concerned, he doesn't do much worse in organ music than L Couperin or Titelouze or Attaignant or Lebègue or Louis Marchand does he? I mean, early French music is an obscure little niche.

True. But definitely worthwhile!  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 30, 2014, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 29, 2014, 11:34:11 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xvKQRA1bSBg/TekIV3xyePI/AAAAAAAAAGY/pyGhWO8CSSs/s1600/back.jpg)

Gillian Weir plays Roberday on the organ St Leonhardskirch in Basel, by J A Silbermann.

Like Leonhardt and Walcha, she is a serious musician. She avoids shallow musical effects. Her style is measured, noble and somewhat introspective. My bet is that the tuning is not meantone, and hence the dissonances are smoothed out. That may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing. I find the richness and grandeur of the organ not altogether to my liking.

What I will say is that the performance is much more challenging than Chapuis in the same music, just because Chapuis is ready to play for effects and to highlight his own virtuosity. For Weir, that sort of behaviour is unthinkable, anathema. What I'm not yet sure about is whether there's enough content to these fugues to justify her introspective austerity. The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.

In the days of LP I used to own Gilian Weir´s Roberday CD. On the sleve the organ was described as a modern Th. Kuhn organ, and I am sure it was equally tuned. No mention of J.A. Silbermann. The sound was sharp and rather thin, not that ingratiating. I did not like Weir´s at the same time lightweight and serious interpretation, I think she killed the music without offering anything else, so I parted with the disc.

At that time my only acquaintance with Roberday´s fugues - other than the score (it was easier to play the fugues myself than to find recordings) - was a recording of five of the fugues played by Claude Terasse (1965) on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR (same organ Darasse uses for his Titelouze and similarly to this a part of the Vox French organ music encyclopedia LP). All I know about him is, that he was a pupil of Marie-Claire Alain, but he is actually rather good, giving the fugues a well measured weighty and noble air without being ponderous. See PM.

I think Chapuis´Roberday CD on Astrée is out of print since long, and I have not heard it. But I own this:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Harmonia%2BMundi/HMA195760

However I also find this interpretation somewhat lightweight.

I also own Isoir´s recording (Temperaments)  - was not impressed by the first and only listening some years ago, and I also own another recording, which I only have listened to once:

http://www.amazon.fr/Musique-Pour-LOrgue-Roberday-Raquet/dp/B00004VDBN/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1396205081&sr=1-12&keywords=roberday

If you give me some time, I may do some comparative listening, but not until next weekend.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 30, 2014, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 30, 2014, 10:50:27 AM
In the days of LP I used to own Gilian Weir´s Roberday CD. On the sleve the organ was described as a modern Th. Kuhn organ, and I am sure it was equally tuned. No mention of J.A. Silbermann. The sound was sharp and rather thin, not that ingratiating. I did not like Weir´s at the same time lightweight and serious interpretation, I think she killed the music without offering anything else, so I parted with the disc.

At that time my only acquaintance with Roberday´s fugues - other than the score (it was easier to play the fugues myself than to find recordings) - was a recording of five of the fugues played by Claude Terasse (1965) on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR (same organ Darasse uses for his Titelouze and similarly to this a part of the Vox French organ music encyclopedia LP). All I know about him is, that he was a pupil of Marie-Claire Alain, but he is actually rather good, giving the fugues a well measured weighty and noble air without being ponderous. See PM.

I think Chapuis´Roberday CD on Astrée is out of print since long, and I have not heard it. But I own this:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Harmonia%2BMundi/HMA195760

However I also find this interpretation somewhat lightweight.

I also own Isoir´s recording (Temperaments)  - was not impressed by the first and only listening some years ago, and I also own another recording, which I only have listened to once:

http://www.amazon.fr/Musique-Pour-LOrgue-Roberday-Raquet/dp/B00004VDBN/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1396205081&sr=1-12&keywords=roberday

If you give me some time, I may do some comparative listening, but not until next weekend.

Ah yes, the organ. I just checked more carefully and it turns out that it's by Kuhn based on J A Silbermann's  organs.

I've ordered the CD of these fugues that Chapuis recorded because I was impressed by the LP he made, which I found on youtube (the LP is different from the CD.) It's fast, colouful,  played for effect, as you would expect, but still very attractive I thought.

In the booklet Weir writes this:

QuoteWhen I was in Basel I spent an evening playing through a pile of little known music I had brought along. Some of it was by Roberday. I decided to record it there and then. Music of this period is improvisatory and my delight in its discovery brought a spontaneity which enhances this element. . . I like the quirkiness of this composer, and his energy and sophisticated exuberance.

It strikes me that she can tall the talk but can't walk the walk. Spontaneity, energy, exuberance, improvisation -- these aren't concepts which seem to apply to Gillian Weir.  But I'm intrigued a bit by what she does so I won't condemn the CD till I've given it a few more tries.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on April 11, 2014, 11:34:48 PM
Ok guys.....could you help me out on here? :)

I am looking for some really good Gringy discs!

Since the French organ music world is still largely an enigma to me - with its aray of organists hardly known outside of France that record for tiny or miniscule labels that are seldom reviewed in the international press - I really need some guidance.

Knowing me, you'll probably know I am looking for historically informed performances on proper period instruments (HIPPI).  8)

Looking forward to you suggestions! :)

Q

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 12, 2014, 07:37:59 AM
Quote from: Que on April 11, 2014, 11:34:48 PM
Ok guys.....could you help me out on here? :)

I am looking for some really good Gringy discs!

Knowing me, you'll probably know I am looking for historically informed performances on proper period instruments (HIPPI).  8)


Mandryka and I discussed recordings of Le premier Livre d´orgue by de Grigny above, not long time ago.

The first of my two preferred rescordings (among the ones I know) is the first complete recording (Erato LP 1965) by Marie-Claire Alain on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR. But I have never seen this released on CD. She rerecorded the Livre on other organs twice (1980 LP only and 1996/8 CD), but neither of these I find compare(s) to the first recording (I have only heard the Missa from the 1998 recording), even if they still are recommendable.

The other is Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen´s recording for Danish ClassicCD, a colorful and opulent recording. Mandryka finds it to my surprise too severe.

I think that the sets by Pierre Bardon (Pierre Verany) and Bernard Coudurier (BNL) are recommendable too, and recently I acquired a nice set (recommended by Don) by John Grew (Athma), but haven´t heard it but once, which also is the case with the recording of Vernet (Ligia digial), the first impression was by the way favorable.

As I wrote above I am no friend of Isoir´s first recording (Calliope). I have not heard his second on Erato, which Mandryka likes. Grunenwald (Accord) cam be forgotten IMO. I have not heard Chapuis´recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Menschenstimme on April 12, 2014, 08:52:24 AM
I enjoy all of the organ CDs on the Telarc label.  I also have many other organ CDs, including several on the D&G label.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 12, 2014, 09:06:52 AM
Re Grigny, my feelings haven't moved on since the recent discussion here. Like Verlet in the mass (haven't heard the hymns, which isn't on spotify for some reason), liked Isoir in hymns and mass on Erato. I also felt positive about Coudurier. I should say that I like to hear this with some nice chanting, and that aspect is influencing my judgements.

Actually one way my feelings have moved on is that I've found a composer I like nearly as much as Grigny - that's Boyvin. If anyone has any suggestions about his music then I'd be interested.

(I have CDs by Schoonbroodt and Heurtematte. Isoir's Boyvin CD is really disappointing by the way. Haven't heard Chapuis.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on April 14, 2014, 09:28:20 AM
Thanks you guys for all the Grigny recommendations so far! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on May 10, 2014, 05:59:51 AM
Quote from: Gordo on May 09, 2014, 04:06:57 PM
Hey, Que, look at this!  ;D

(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/ES/images_produits/ES/ZoomPE/6/5/6/3487549902656.jpg)

Quote from: (: premont :) on May 10, 2014, 05:11:13 AM
Yes, when listening to this for the first time two days ago, I also thought of Que.

The playing is state of the art, and the newly built organ seems to have taken its model - as to sound - from the Scherer organ in Tangermünde. And what a beautiful neo-North German prospect.

I must say that for a moment I was confusing this apparently new issue with this older (2003) one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5120BdnB39L.jpg).

But thanks guys, for pointing it out to me. The good news is that Ablitzer might have found his new "home" at Ligia. Hopefully there is more to come...

Anyway I encountered a slightly qualified recommendation of the new recording - on account of Albitzer's playing - on this Dutch organ site: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orgelnieuws.nl%2Fl-ecole-du-nord%2F&edit-text=

Do the comments make sense? :) (Apart from the confusing, automated translation gibberish? :D)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: North Star on May 10, 2014, 06:19:08 AM
..And here's a link to the Amz FR product page, complete with samples..
(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/ES/images_produits/ES/ZoomPE/6/5/6/3487549902656.jpg) (http://www.amazon.fr/LEcole-du-Nord-Buxtehude-Dietrich/dp/B00I65234M/)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 10, 2014, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: Que on May 10, 2014, 05:59:51 AM

But thanks guys, for pointing it out to me. The good news is that Ablitzer might have found his new "home" at Ligia. Hopefully there is more to come...

Anyway I encountered a slightly qualified recommendation of the new recording - on account of Albitzer's playing - on this Dutch organ site: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orgelnieuws.nl%2Fl-ecole-du-nord%2F&edit-text=
Do the comments make sense? :) (Apart from the confusing, automated translation gibberish? :D)
Q

Relistening to this to day confirms my first impression. I think the Dutch reviewer is much too strict.

The organ is an outstanding early Baroque North German style-copy, rather Scherer than Schnitger, the flute stops are softer and the mixtures milder than Schnitger´s, and the recorded sound is excellent and well defined. Ablitzers interpretation is expressive and flawless, with well chosen registrations - displaying the instrument very well, and his pace is noble and fluent without any rush (or dragging). His articulation is sufficently detached without too much legato.  This CD is a must have.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on May 10, 2014, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 10, 2014, 12:30:39 PM
Relistening to this to day confirms my first impression. I think the Dutch reviewer is much too strict. [...]

This CD is a must have.

Yay! :)  Music to my ears.... :D Thanks, and Gordo for his comments too. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: listener on August 19, 2014, 01:20:15 PM
I have just enjoyed my first listen to the 'new' organ by Eule in Duisberg's Mercatorhalle on Acousence  21 410.  It is built in the English turn-of-the-century tradition of concert organs rather than sacred ones.  Three 32' pedal stops.
An interesting program, if the period attracts, including the original Symphony for Organ and Orch. by Guilmant op.42 usually heard as an organ sonata solo., Jongen's Sonata Eroica and the Lemare transcription of the overture to Wagner's Rienzi.  The Thalben-Ball Variations on a theme of Paganini are new to me.
Thomas Trotter and Iveta Apkalna are organists with the Duisburg Philharmonic
Detailed notes  and description of the organ are in the booklet.    There are no chorale settings, if that's what you are looking for.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 25, 2014, 02:27:47 AM
I'm going to upload Daniel Chorzempa's Liszt recordings on symphonyshare today. Let me know if you want them but can't get them from there. The performances have never been off LP apart from the variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Sagen. I thought they were worth transfering because they're not too flash, they're even introspective at times, and I like that more than the usual way with Liszt.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on November 16, 2014, 09:45:54 AM
Just to enjoy: Pierre Bardon demonstrating Les Grandes Orgues Historiques de la Basilique Sainte-Marie-Madeleine du Couvent Royal de Saint-Maximin-la-Sainte-Baume, Provence, France, built by Jean-Esprit Isnard and his nephew Joseph Isnard, around 1775.

http://www.youtube.com/v/WlfcuawEUvg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlfcuawEUvg
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2015, 12:46:24 PM
My latest discovery on spotify is Giorgio Questa. Worth hearing - I've been listening to a mass by Jacques Brunel, new music for me, but there's lots of other stuff, including a lot of Frescobaldi and Brahms and the inevitable JSB.

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/dynamiccds687.jpg)

Here's a thread about him on an organ forum

http://www.organmatters.com/index.php?topic=820.0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 22, 2015, 08:56:06 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/434/MI0003434394.jpg)

Listening to this, the thought actually crossed my mind that it's all been downhill since Arnolt Schlick. Nonsense of course, but such is the strength of Kimberly Marshall's advocacy, and such is the integrity, the candour, of the music and the music making.

Anyway what I really want to say is, Arnolt's good. And Kimberly Marshall's neo-early organ sounds good to me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Moonfish on January 22, 2015, 11:03:52 AM
What are your thoughts about this recent compilation of French Organ music performed by Alain?

[asin] B00M8AQZFO[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81C5OO6dCBL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 31, 2015, 10:37:47 PM
(http://www.israbox.net/uploads/posts/2015-01/1421598283_front.jpg)

Bernard Foccroulle plays Weckmann on the restored organ of St Katherine's Church Hamburg.

The registrations are natural, beautiful, and somehow exotic - I'm reminded of the registrations that Kelemen used in his Weckmann CD.  Organ lovers will want this not just for the organ, but also for Foccroulle's conception of the music, which is distinctive not just for it's modesty and seriousness, but also because his legato and long phrasing results in a calm coherent forward movement.

I love Weckmann for some reason.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 13, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Has anyone heard any of the Samuel Scheidt survey on Fagott? Any opinions? Which would be the best one to start with?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 14, 2015, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Has anyone heard any of the Samuel Scheidt survey on Fagott? Any opinions? Which would be the best one to start with?

I own the first 8 volumes, and I have listened to about half of them. The recordings are very interesting from an organological point of view, and as far as I can judge (competition isn´t strong) the playing from a number of different - and to me largely unknown -  organists, is highly informed and also generally inspired.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 15, 2015, 05:28:05 AM
Warning. Prepare yourself for a rave.

This is what Skip Sempé says about Louis Couperin's organ works from the Oldham manuscript

QuoteBelieve it or not, we do not really know for sure whether this Couperin is Louis or another member of the Couperin family. Louis Couperin was a known viol player and organist: it was his brother Charles who had an outstanding reputation as a harpsichordist. Charles Couperin was the father of François Couperin 'Le Grand', which may lead us to wonder if the finest eighteenth century French harpsichordist was actually trained by his father, rather than his uncle? As a further complication of the issue, the organ pieces of 'Louis Couperin' have recently been published, and it has been suggested that the manuscript source of these organ works represents an autograph of Louis Couperin. There is some disagreement on this matter. However, the harpsichord works are so much more interesting on grounds of musical content and finesse of style that I find it hard to imagine that these organ pieces are the work of the same composer. I have suggested that even if Louis Couperin was the scribe, does this lend real certainty as the composer of the music he was transmitting in his own hand? Perhaps we will never know.

And Glen Wilson, in a more scholarly manner, has tried to support his view that the Fantasias and Fugues aren't good enough to be by a master like LC, the paper's on the Glen Wilson website. Moroney was a  defender in performance I suppose, though I've never seen anything on it published by him, he seems to have remained quiet. I have a friend who went to hear Moroney play the music at St Gervais in Paris who says he was so bored he nearly fell asleep.

Up to now, I've known the pieces from Moroney's recording and from Jan Wilem Jansen's. Neither had convinced me that this was interesting music and quietly I sympahised with Skip Sempé and Glen Wilson. I haven't heard Peter Dirkson's recording.

Then I bought this, I took a punt. Result: I've started to change my mind:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/743/MI0003743329.jpg)

What's so special about Beyhurst's take on the music is this: it reminds me of Titelouze. Contrapuntal, yes. But not academic. The function of the music is to effect your soul. And above all, it's an orgy of colour.

And Beyhurst seems to give the works something which seems right at the essence of French early music - the paradoxical combination of raucous vulgarity and refined elegance.

Why should the influences of LC's harpsichord music be the same as his organ music? There's no reason to expect similarities. I'm not sure if LC could have been aware of Titelouze's music or the Titelouze style - but listening to this recording, I'd bet he was.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 15, 2015, 08:34:48 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 15, 2015, 05:28:05 AM
Warning. Prepare yourself for a rave.



Then I bought this, I took a punt. Result: I've started to change my mind:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/743/MI0003743329.jpg)

What's so special about Beyhurst's take on the music is this: it reminds me of Titelouze. Contrapuntal, yes. But not academic. The function of the music is to effect your soul. And above all, it's an orgy of colour.

And Beyhurst seems to give the works something which seems right at the essence of French early music - the paradoxical combination of raucous vulgarity and refined elegance.


Too interesting to pass by, so I ordered the CD at once (from Fnac).  :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 02:14:11 AM
I came across this film showing Michel Chapuis performing at Saint Pons (recorded back in 2006). It is interesting to watch him play.

https://www.youtube.com/v/St6uZxVawcY
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 09, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
I heard Serge Schoonbroot play at Ste Croix in Bordeaux last night, he did some Sweelinck and Chaumont and Grigny and Marchand. The Marchand was particularly impressive. During the concert I kept thinking that I've never heard a musician so talented at making the music sound so fresh, as though it's an improvisation. Other organists may be great at other things, but for using techniques to make the music sound like spontaneous expression, Schoonderbroot is exceptional.

One aspect of this is about transitions. When a registration changes, even when it changes dramatically, Schoonbroot makes it sound really natural.

It also made me think that I'd better do something with my hi fi to get closer to the real Dom Bedos sound at home. Suggestions for amps, speakers, sub woofers etc appreciated.

How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2015, 03:21:32 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71oToODIawL._SX522_.jpg)

What do you really get from meantone?

The disc above has some c17 Dutch style music played on a neo baroque organ (new pipes, old case.) Leonhardt plays it with equal tuning, and Matteo Imbruno plays it with meantone tuning.

Maybe, just maybe, I can hear the difference caused by the tuning. I can certainly hear a difference but  you have to bear in mind that the recording quality is different, and the organists may be using different magic powers in their touch to affect the sound (that's possible, right?) Is Leonhardt's recital "whiter" than Imbruno's? It doesn't sound like that to me in the van Noordt hymn or the Scheidemann Toccata.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 17, 2015, 04:13:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 16, 2015, 03:21:32 AM
What do you really get from meantone?

You know the answer.

One gets almost pure tuning, in contrast to the universally out of tune equal tuning.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 17, 2015, 12:53:04 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 04:13:27 AM

One gets almost pure tuning, in contrast to the universally out of tune equal tuning.

I think I once more shall recommend this book:

Ross W. Duffin:
How equal temperament ruined harmony
W. W. Norton & Company, New York/London
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 17, 2015, 01:02:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
I heard Serge Schoonbroot play at Ste Croix in Bordeaux last night, he did some Sweelinck and Chaumont and Grigny and Marchand. The Marchand was particularly impressive. During the concert I kept thinking that I've never heard a musician so talented at making the music sound so fresh, as though it's an improvisation. Other organists may be great at other things, but for using techniques to make the music sound like spontaneous expression, Schoonderbroot is exceptional.

One aspect of this is about transitions. When a registration changes, even when it changes dramatically, Schoonbroot makes it sound really natural.

It also made me think that I'd better do something with my hi fi to get closer to the real Dom Bedos sound at home. Suggestions for amps, speakers, sub woofers etc appreciated.

How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.

Thanks for these inspiring thoughts. Schoonbroodt´s recordings very much confirm your impressions.

I recall, that you intended a few months ago to attend a recital with Robert Bates (Titelouze/Grigny) in St. Croix. What did you make of this?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 17, 2015, 06:36:38 PM
That Marie-Claire Alain set posted above looks great. I have her Erato set of the complete Bach and now I want this. Has anyone heard it?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2015, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 01:02:12 PM
Thanks for these inspiring thoughts. Schoonbroodt´s recordings very much confirm your impressions.

I recall, that you intended a few months ago to attend a recital with Robert Bates (Titelouze/Grigny) in St. Croix. What did you make of this?

Don't ask. It was a disaster for me. I didn't make it to the church in time >:(
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2015, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 17, 2015, 06:36:38 PM
That Marie-Claire Alain set posted above looks great. I have her Erato set of the complete Bach and now I want this. Has anyone heard it?

I have it. The transfers are good. Unfortunately most of the music in the set doesn't interest me much.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: The new erato on November 17, 2015, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 17, 2015, 08:41:39 PM
I didn't make it to the church in time >:(
But were you married in the morning?

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Me_to_the_Church_on_Time (https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Me_to_the_Church_on_Time)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jochanaan on November 18, 2015, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
...How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.
Yes, the sounds draw us all in. 8)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 18, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 12:53:04 PM
I think I once more shall recommend this book:

Ross W. Duffin:
How equal temperament ruined harmony
W. W. Norton & Company, New York/London

Can you recommend something shorter as an introduction?

Lately I am becoming even more enchanted with de Grigny's work, and am seeking additional recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 19, 2015, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 18, 2015, 10:54:02 PM


Lately I am becoming even more enchanted with de Grigny's work, and am seeking additional recordings.

What have you been listening to?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 19, 2015, 02:10:55 PM
I have an LP on the Telefunken label (probably mid-60s) with  Premier Livre d'Orgue, 1699, La Messe. I am not sure who the artist is--I made a CD of that LP, but now I can't find the LP itself.

I also have a CD by Gerre Hancock, former organist at St. Thomas Church in NYC. This is outstanding BTW:

(http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/630x630/music/785/1135785.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 19, 2015, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 19, 2015, 02:10:55 PM
I have an LP on the Telefunken label (probably mid-60s) with  Premier Livre d'Orgue, 1699, La Messe.

Michel Chapuis maybe. It sounds to me as though you've only heard the mass, not the hymns, so that may be something to think about. Do you want a recording which presents the music a bit like a church service, with some singing interspersed with the organ music?

Just this week saw the release of a new Grigny recording on the organ at Ste Croix in Bordeaux and at the northern church of St Michel en Thiérache , by Marina Tchebourkina. I've just started to listen to it, what I can say is that it's noble and serious and weighty and transparent and colourful and very well recorded.

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/48/01/3760075340148_300.jpg)

Tchebournika has collaborated on a publication on Grigny which looks interesting, I may buy it

http://symetrie.com/fr/titres/l-orgue/293-nicolas-de-grigny-1672-1703



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 20, 2015, 03:28:45 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 19, 2015, 08:51:17 PM
Michel Chapuis maybe. 

You may omit the "maybe".

Quote from: Mandryka
Just this week saw the release of a new Grigny recording on the organ at Ste Croix in Bordeaux and at the northern church of St Michel en Thiérache , by Marina Tchebourkina. I've just started to listen to it, what I can say is that it's noble and serious and weighty and transparent and colourful and very well recorded.

I can only find this available on mp3 download. Do you know if a CD exists?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 20, 2015, 04:19:23 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 18, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
Can you recommend something shorter as an introduction?

The book contains 160 rather small pages, and note that the subject is very complicated.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 20, 2015, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 20, 2015, 03:28:45 AM
You may omit the "maybe".

I can only find this available on mp3 download. Do you know if a CD exists?

Not as far as I can see, they aren't selling a CD from their site at

http://www.natives.fr/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 20, 2015, 09:54:44 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into that CD/MP3 or whatever it is.

I have been listening to more and more pipe organ music as my musical tastes have evolved over the years; the instrument and its literature (even Bach alone!) seem to be a universe unto itself--much more so than any other instrument. It is a place of solace far removed from the innumerable horrors wrought by humanity.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 01, 2016, 09:50:26 AM
(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/06/54/3325480605406_600.jpg)

This is a life enhancing anthology of rare recordings by top musicians on lovely organs playing fascinating music from the Arion label.

Having said that, I have absolutely no idea who is playing what, or on which instruments! I can find a track list, but it doesn't go any further than specify  the titles of the tracks. And as far as I can see there is no cd, so no booklet.

http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/-lart-de-lorgue-vol1/3325480605406#

Added: found it, but is there a booklet?

http://www.grooves-inc.co.uk/brosse-langlais-darasse-beraza-the-art-die-orgel-vol-cornerstone-media-cd-album-pZZa1-1897437072.html

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 01, 2016, 12:27:20 PM
Voilà:

http://www.amazon.fr/LArt-lorgue-Vol-1-Compositeurs-divers/dp/B00005BIBK

For the content: Blow up the backside of the cover.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 14, 2016, 02:40:20 AM
(http://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/3576073081071_p0_v1_s272x272.jpg)

Fabulous Flemish organs beautifully recorded. Guillaume Van Belle (1686)/Nielles-les-Ardres and  Bremser (1646)/ Elzenveldkapel Antwerp. Both meantone. The recording is worth hearing for the organs alone IMO.

Fabulous organist. Makes very good use of dissonances, tasteful registrations, transitions sound natural and coherent, often colourful without being garish.

Fabulous music. I'd heard some of Peeter Cornet's music before on a recording by Koopman, but it didn't impress me half as much as this. A near contemporary of Titelouze, so we're approaching the fons et origo.

http://www.orguescattiaux.org/Liste%20des%20instruments/Nielles/Niellesl.html
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 14, 2016, 03:52:03 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2016, 02:40:20 AM
Fabulous Flemish organs beautifully recorded. Guillaume Van Belle (1686)/Nielles-les-Ardres and  Bremser (1646)/ Elzenveldkapel Antwerp. Both meantone. The recording is worth hearing for the organs alone IMO.

Fabulous organist. Makes very good use of dissonances, tasteful registrations, transitions sound natural and coherent, often colourful without being garish.

Fabulous music. I'd heard some of Peeter Cornet's music before on a recording by Koopman, but it didn't impress me half as much as this. A near contemporary of Titelouze, so we're approaching the fons et origo.

I have also enjoyed this set very much for the reasons you mention.. A nice find that Cornet's music is so substantial.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 18, 2016, 09:20:24 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/073/MI0001073880.jpg)  (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/036/MI0001036900.jpg?)

I would say that both these volumes represent a really interesting and for me revealing slant on Pachelbel. The music chosen is interesting for its counterpoint, the performances are  expressive, rarely flamboyant, never hectoring or brutal, always serious and he's not shy of using the organs' colours. And he uses a couple of lovely  old organs to boot. Payne sounds well at home with this idiom. I couldn't stop myself thinking of earlier music - Froberger and serious Scheidt - Bk 3!

The only piece I knew before was the Aria Sebaldina, and there I think that Payne is not as attractive to hear as (eg) Tüma on clavichord, just because he doesn't find the melancholy which I've been conditioned to expect in this music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 20, 2016, 06:45:48 PM
Just ordered this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F-jwmU1WL._SX355_.jpg)

Should keep me busy for a while, and a hell of a bargain. I am still greatly enjoying her Bach 14 CD set I bought years ago.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on February 21, 2016, 12:33:38 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2016, 02:40:20 AM
[asin]B0021H5HEY[/asin]

Fabulous Flemish organs beautifully recorded. Guillaume Van Belle (1686)/Nielles-les-Ardres and  Bremser (1646)/ Elzenveldkapel Antwerp. Both meantone. The recording is worth hearing for the organs alone IMO.

Fabulous organist. Makes very good use of dissonances, tasteful registrations, transitions sound natural and coherent, often colourful without being garish.

Fabulous music. I'd heard some of Peeter Cornet's music before on a recording by Koopman, but it didn't impress me half as much as this. A near contemporary of Titelouze, so we're approaching the fons et origo.

http://www.orguescattiaux.org/Liste%20des%20instruments/Nielles/Niellesl.html

Thanks for posting that, looks very interesting..and I didn't know the composer. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 28, 2016, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 18, 2016, 09:20:24 AM

I would say that both these volumes represent a really interesting and for me revealing slant on Pachelbel. The music chosen is interesting for its counterpoint, the performances are  expressive, rarely flamboyant, never hectoring or brutal, always serious and he's not shy of using the organs' colours. And he uses a couple of lovely  old organs to boot. Payne sounds well at home with this idiom. I couldn't stop myself thinking of earlier music - Froberger and serious Scheidt - Bk 3!

I have taken this ad notam and am going to order these two CDs with my Next, soon to come Presto order.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2016, 10:53:59 PM
(http://is2.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music1/v4/b5/f6/c6/b5f6c693-c0d7-6ad2-62a3-37865bda03fb/source/150x150bb.jpg)

A  flamboyant Buxtehude recording on a flamboyant neo-baroque organ, Formentelli/Merano (1967). Leonardo Carrieri is a keyboard player to watch out for I think. And the recording is worth catching for the organ alone, especially for people like me who like  astringency.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 05, 2016, 03:16:27 PM
I am looking for a complete box set of Reger's organ music. I have a few of them on Naxos, but would like a complete (or nearly complete) set.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Richard on March 06, 2016, 06:06:10 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 05, 2016, 03:16:27 PM
I am looking for a complete box set of Reger's organ music. I have a few of them on Naxos, but would like a complete (or nearly complete) set.

You mentioned the Naxos series. I presume you've seen this:

[asin]B0145YQF14[/asin]

Both Reger and Fugatto are working on the series as well, but I don't think that either are complete.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 06, 2016, 06:55:02 PM
Thanks, I actually have seen it, and it looks really good (good reviews), but I am wondering whether there is any competition in complete sets. I could not really find any on Amazon.

Have you heard this set?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Richard on March 07, 2016, 04:37:11 AM
Like you I have only heard a few volumes. Naxos used a number of different organists through the series (12? I think). I recall the playing being good and the recording being very good.

The price is right. Still... nineteen hours of Reger's organ music. That would be a test of concentration.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 12, 2016, 10:49:30 AM
Any thoughts on this set?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tAzfqcdXL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 12, 2016, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 12, 2016, 10:49:30 AM
Any thoughts on this set?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tAzfqcdXL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg)

If you can get it for 15 Euro's as I did, it is worth the cost. Not all the content is equally interesting, but among other things there is a fine Bach CD by Andreas Liebig and a fine CD played on North German Baroque organs by Harald Vogel. And the Zipoli CD by Lorenzo Ghielmi is worth listening to. The rest is good and less interesting things mixed together. I on my part find, that Radulescu's Muffat CD is the weakest part of the set, not because of the music but the interpretation is dull.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 12, 2016, 02:25:00 PM
Thank you. Yes, it's 16$ here, and it looked to have some interesting instruments as well as unfamiliar pieces (to me any way).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 14, 2016, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 12, 2016, 02:25:00 PM
Thank you. Yes, it's 16$ here, and it looked to have some interesting instruments as well as unfamiliar pieces (to me any way).

Go for it!

:)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on March 18, 2016, 04:52:07 AM
Quote from: Richard on March 06, 2016, 06:06:10 PM
You mentioned the Naxos series. I presume you've seen this:



Both Reger and Fugatto are working on the series as well, but I don't think that either are complete.

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 05, 2016, 03:16:27 PM
I am looking for a complete box set of Reger's organ music. I have a few of them on Naxos, but would like a complete (or nearly complete) set.

I have some (maybe 5, 6 volumes) of the Naxos. Good stuff. Not great. But what is great in Reger organ works? What makes them work?
Rosalind Haas (MDG) certainly doesn't; have that, too, but it's dry as dust -- a few wonderful touches here and there notwithstanding.
So along came Bernhard Buttmann (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00BN2N9XE/goodmusicguide-20) (I know, unfortunate, isn't it) on Oehms and although I only have v.1 of so far three volumes (each 4 CDs, I think), it just totally blew me away. So much color, so flowery no: fruity... a real joy in the listening!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 19, 2016, 12:02:47 PM
Just to enjoy:

Sietze de Vries: Partita in Baroque Style on Psalm 86 (a prayer for help by David).

Zielman organ, Reformed church Die Kandelaar, Pretoria, South Africa.

https://www.youtube.com/v/mwvgQyyJF3A
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2016, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 19, 2016, 12:02:47 PM
Just to enjoy:

Sietze de Vries: Partita in Baroque Style on Psalm 86 (a prayer for help by David).

Zielman organ, Reformed church Die Kandelaar, Pretoria, South Africa.

https://www.youtube.com/v/mwvgQyyJF3A
Nice organ, the music was OK -- maybe over long. But what do you think of the idea of projecting his hands and feet on a screen as he's playing?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 21, 2016, 08:22:53 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 21, 2016, 10:29:45 AM
Nice organ, the music was OK -- maybe over long. But what do you think of the idea of projecting his hands and feet on a screen as he's playing?

Some organs in NL have a mirror, which means the listener can watch ('reversed') action, though it's often difficult to see, and I've experienced a projector once (in the Der Aa Kerk, Groningen), where one could only see the player's hands.

For me, it doesn't change much and it takes away a bit of the 'mystery', but I heard some younger visitors afterwards who really appreciated it, so I think it's a nice add-on. I guess it will make organ concerts more expensive though, because camera's, projectors et al are not for free.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 28, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
Just received the Cornet 2 CD set (Arnaud Van de Cauter), recommended in this thread, and am enjoying it a great deal. Also, today, I stumbled across this set, which looks very intriguing. Does anyone have this?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TeqjueVgL._SX425_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMUSsrNZL.jpg)

My German is crap (I'm barely an A2 speaker after all my efforts), but I will try to get through this review:

http://de.brilliantclassics.com/2015/12/various-500-years-of-organ-music/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on June 29, 2016, 03:12:00 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 28, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
Just received the Cornet 2 CD set (Arnaud Van de Cauter), recommended in this thread, and am enjoying it a great deal. Also, today, I stumbled across this set, which looks very intriguing. Does anyone have this?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TeqjueVgL._SX425_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMUSsrNZL.jpg)

My German is crap (I'm barely an A2 speaker after all my efforts), but I will try to get through this review:

http://de.brilliantclassics.com/2015/12/various-500-years-of-organ-music/

It is not really a review, but more of a promotion as to why you should buy the set.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 30, 2016, 11:44:14 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Organ-Works-2-DISC-SET-Pamela-Tunder-Ruiter-Feenstra-1900-CD-New-/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/umEAAOSwv0tVb~JA/$_35.JPG)

There is a revolution afoot in stylus fantasticus. Gone are the days when Buxtehude and Bruhns were seen as just writers of bravura. First William Porter for Bruhns, them Hans Davidsson for Buxtehude and now Pamela Ruiter-Feenstra for Tunder present a stylus fantasticus which is sweet, soft, singing, introverted, reflective, rapt, humane, poetic, oneiric, mystical, hermetic, ecstatic, spiritual. Everything but virtuosic in fact. Que - avoid.

The organ, the Göteborg über-Schnitger,  mean-tone, is fabulous of course.

Part of the origin of Ruiter-Feenstra's vision lies in her having gone back to the oldest tablatures to create her own edition -- apparently previous editions were a dog's dinner. In some pieces, the combination of the organ and Ruiter-Feenstra's approach and the authenticity of the versions she uses produces something which is musical magic. An example is Was kann uns kommen un fur not version 1, The Lord is my Shepherd,  with its strange ending.

Are there any secret Tunder recordings by Walter Kraft?

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 10, 2016, 09:56:44 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v1VW4DURL._SX522_.jpg)

Karl Maureen plays the Steigleder variations. The recording is organologically interesting because the instrument, Jörg Ebert/Innsbruck, is very much in the style that Steigleder would have been used to. Maureen is a performer/scholar who has specialised in South German music. There's nothing didactic or academic about his performance.

The performance uses voices and organ. Given the HIPness of the approach, I guess that that means that what Berben does isn't justifiable historically. Tuning is a modified meantone, and is attractive I think.  Karl Maureen prides himself on the historical authenticity of his interpretation. The booklet is exemplary, with extensive discussions of the composer, the music, the tabulature and the organ.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 10, 2016, 05:47:07 PM
Thanks for these recommendations. The Tunder CD is on my wish list--I will buy it soon--and eventually most of the other recommendations on this thread.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 15, 2016, 08:52:43 PM
Discussion of baroque temperament, and organ practice more generally, here.

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=HPSCHD-L&D=0&P=37504


It's an early music message board from Iowa University, if you search you'll find some interesting comments from David Moroney (on L. couperin organ music for example, which taught me that the area of attribution isn't something an amateur should ever get involved in: it's a job for the professionals. Maybe Glen Wilson is an amateur, who am I to say!

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind1109&L=HPSCHD-L&P=R1050&1=HPSCHD-L&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4

And on Fugue,

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind1208&L=HPSCHD-L&D=0&1=HPSCHD-L&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4&P=61909)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 17, 2016, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 05:49:35 AM
(http://www.pieterdirksen.nl/Images/Tundercd.jpg)

Tunder, Dirksen/van Laar,, Groningen.

http://www.pieterdirksen.nl/Recordings/Tunder.htm

There are sample downloads here, which I haven't had the chance to hear yet.

http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/index.php?action=extra&extra=A_downloads_tunder_cd&lang=EN

Bought this issue last Saturday, and did the dishes today whilst listening to it: it's a great disc!
(And so are the downloads.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 17, 2016, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 15, 2016, 08:52:43 PM
Discussion of baroque temperament, and organ practice more generally, here.

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0301&L=HPSCHD-L&D=0&P=37504


It's an early music message board from Iowa University, if you search you'll find some interesting comments from David Moroney (on L. couperin organ music for example, which taught me that the area of attribution isn't something an amateur should ever get involved in: it's a job for the professionals. Maybe Glen Wilson is an amateur, who am I to say!

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind1109&L=HPSCHD-L&P=R1050&1=HPSCHD-L&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4

And on Fugue,

https://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind1208&L=HPSCHD-L&D=0&1=HPSCHD-L&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4&P=61909)

Thanks for drawing attention to these interesting discussions and to the webpage in general, which I did not know.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 17, 2016, 12:07:19 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 10, 2016, 09:56:44 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v1VW4DURL._SX522_.jpg)
Karl Maureen plays the Steigleder variations.

Where did you find this unattainable recording??
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 17, 2016, 12:07:19 PM
Where did you find this unattainable recording??

Amazon in Germany, going for a song! I'll let you have it tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 17, 2016, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 01:01:48 PM
Amazon in Germany, going for a song! I'll let you have it tomorrow.

That would be great.  :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 17, 2016, 10:02:57 AM
Bought this issue last Saturday, and did the dishes today whilst listening to it: it's a great disc!
(And so are the downloads.)

I shall buy it, I thought the phrasing, touch and the intimacy was unusual in Pieter Dirkesn's download.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 18, 2016, 11:27:36 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 01:10:32 PM
I shall buy it, I thought the phrasing, touch and the intimacy was unusual in Pieter Dirkesn's download.

I haven't done a thorough comparison with f.i. Ruiter-Feenstra or Flamme, but I really enjoyed Dirksen's approach, with a nice and delicate use of all kinds of beautiful 'Martini' stops.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 20, 2016, 06:19:19 AM
Quote from: Marc on July 18, 2016, 11:27:36 PM
I haven't done a thorough comparison with f.i. Ruiter-Feenstra or Flamme, but I really enjoyed Dirksen's approach, with a nice and delicate use of all kinds of beautiful 'Martini' stops.

It's hard to order that CD because he doesn't respond to his emails and as far as I can see his website is the only source. Where did you get your copy from?

On the other hand I'm happy to announce that, after a certain amount of argy-bargy, I've managed to order Harald Vogel's Boehm CD.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2016, 08:26:58 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 20, 2016, 06:19:19 AM
It's hard to order that CD because he doesn't respond to his emails and as far as I can see his website is the only source. Where did you get your copy from?
[...]

I bought it in the Martinikerk, in my hometown Groningen.

For another online possibility besides Dirksen's own website, maybe this link (again from the Groningen Orgelland website) might help:

http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/index.php?item=cd_s&action=page&group_id=10&page=3&lang=EN

Btw: their entire catalogue is yummy yummy... in my humble opinion, that is...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 20, 2016, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 20, 2016, 08:26:58 PM
I bought it in the Martinikerk, in my hometown Groningen.

For another online possibility besides Dirksen's own website, maybe this link (again from the Groningen Orgelland website) might help:

http://www.groningenorgelland.nl/index.php?item=cd_s&action=page&group_id=10&page=3&lang=EN

Btw: their entire catalogue is yummy yummy... in my humble opinion, that is...

Yes Groningen Organ Land (that sounds so cheesy in English) works. It didn't  come up when I typed Dirksen or Laar or Tunder in the search box, but if you scroll through the list it's there.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 25, 2016, 07:49:25 AM
Quote from: Marc on July 18, 2016, 11:27:36 PM
with a nice and delicate use of all kinds of beautiful 'Martini' stops.

He really makes the music dance, light and colourful. Very good while doing the washing up.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on July 25, 2016, 10:13:38 AM
I suppose most of the organ aficionados here have already heard that on July 20th (exactly his 81st birthday and coincidentally exactly the day that my [scheduled] CD of the Week post of his Art of the Fugue went up) Andre Isoire died?!

Anyone have favorite non-Bach recordings of his?

Quote from: jlaurson on July 24, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
Latest on Forbes:

Classical CD Of The Week: André Isoir's Art Of The Fugue

(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/07/Forbes_Classica-CD-of-the-Week_LA-DOLCE-VOLTA_Bach-Art-of-the-Fugue_Andre_Isoire_laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg) (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/07/20/classical-cd-of-the-week-andre-isoirs-art-of-the-fugue/#83b634a293d5)
Andre Isoire died the day this was posted. May he rest in peace; I think of him with warm gratitude; he has brought me many hours of listening-joy!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 25, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on July 25, 2016, 10:13:38 AM
I suppose most of the organ aficionados here have already heard that on July 20th (exactly his 81st birthday and coincidentally exactly the day that my [scheduled] CD of the Week post of his Art of the Fugue went up) Andre Isoire died?!

Anyone have favorite non-Bach recordings of his?

Yes, this one - but it never made it to CD:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ISOIR-DARASSE-TERRASSE-world-greatest-organ-france-vol-1-Box-Set-3-LP-VG/350912329747?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37429%26meid%3D4f06b5215f5046f4b378499d5782dee0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D231266176417

Other than that I have never been much convinced by his non-Bach recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 25, 2016, 11:19:57 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 25, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Yes, this one - but it never made it to CD:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ISOIR-DARASSE-TERRASSE-world-greatest-organ-france-vol-1-Box-Set-3-LP-VG/350912329747?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37429%26meid%3D4f06b5215f5046f4b378499d5782dee0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D231266176417

Other than that I have never been much convinced by his non-Bach recordings.

I have the Isoir contribution on this Caliope  CD, or at least I think it's the same

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51n5t05oPvL.jpg)

He recorded Guilain twice, and the second one is worth catching, not least for the organ (L-A Cliquot/Houdan)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fcbo-bC8L._SX450_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 25, 2016, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 25, 2016, 11:19:57 AM
I have the Isoir contribution on this Caliope  CD, or at least I think it's the same

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51n5t05oPvL.jpg)


I own both recordings (the Vox and the Calliope) and they are widely different in interpretation and recorded on two different organs. The Vox is by far the best. Caused by moving-mess I do not have the Vox at hand just now, but I shall send you the entire Vox LP as soon as I have settled myself in my new appartment (may take up to three weeks ).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 25, 2016, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 25, 2016, 11:19:57 AM
He recorded Guilain twice, and the second one is worth catching, not least for the organ (L-A Cliquot/Houdan)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fcbo-bC8L._SX450_.jpg)

Yes, I forgot that one. This is actually a non-Bach Isoir favorite of mine, and now I recall one more non-Bach favorite:

https://www.amazon.fr/Roberday-Fugues-Caprices-Pi%C3%A8ces-violes/dp/B0000634VN/ref=sr_1_14?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1469476277&sr=1-14&keywords=andre+isoir
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 25, 2016, 12:28:50 PM
You guys are going to make me go broke with all these recommendations.

Anyway, I would also be interested in recommendations for recordings (esp. complete sets) of Frescobaldi, Sweelinck, Siefert, Muffat, and Titelouze.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 26, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 25, 2016, 12:28:50 PM


Anyway, I would also be interested in recommendations for recordings (esp. complete sets) of Frescobaldi, Sweelinck, Siefert, Muffat, and Titelouze.

For Titelouze it's easy 'cause there's only one complete organ music. Bates. It's pretty good, the music is not played in alternatim though.

For Feedcobaldi I cannot recommend a complete set with any confidence. If you fancy a really OTT flamboyant organ recording on an outstanding instrument tuned properly then treat yourself to the CD by Edoardo Bellotti. It's quite a thrilling ride.

(http://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/8015203101289_p0_v1_s272x272.jpg)

My favourite Sweelinck is the NM set.

My favourite commercially available Muffat is probably Keleman.

Siefert I know nothing about.

 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on July 26, 2016, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 25, 2016, 11:47:51 AM
I own both recordings (the Vox and the Calliope) and they are widely different in interpretation and recorded on two different organs. The Vox is by far the best. Caused by moving-mess I do not have the Vox at hand just now, but I shall send you the entire Vox LP as soon as I have settled myself in my new appartment (may take up to three weeks ).

Hmm... I know the guys in charge of the rights to either catalogue. I think the Calliope has all been re-issued already; time to stimulate the Vox gentleman into action.  ;)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 26, 2016, 09:45:52 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 26, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
For Titelouze it's easy 'cause there's only one complete organ music. Bates. It's pretty good, the music is not played in alternatim though.

For Feedcobaldi I cannot recommend a complete set with any confidence. If you fancy a really OTT flamboyant organ recording on an outstanding instrument tuned properly then treat yourself to the CD by Edoardo Bellotti. It's quite a thrilling ride.

(http://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/8015203101289_p0_v1_s272x272.jpg)

My favourite Sweelinck is the NM set.

My favourite commercially available Muffat is probably Keleman.

Siefert I know nothing about.



My recommendations are very similar.

Complete Titelouze: Bates (Loft)

Complete Frescobaldi: Most available sets are hit or miss. The safest recommendation concerning the keyboard music is probably Lorreggian (Brilliant Classics).

Complete Sweelinck keyboard music, yes the NM set. Berben and Koopman are both hit or miss.
I own the Glossa set, but have not yet had the time to listen to it.

Concerning Georg Muffat I also tend to prefer Kelemen among the available recordings.
Actually my preferred recording is by Heinz-Markus Göttsche (DaCamera LP), since long OOP.

Complete Siefert: Only one existing recording:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Paul-Siefert-1586-1666-S%E4mtliche-Werke-f%FCr-Tasteninstrumete/hnum/6781657

Not immediately exciting, but serviceable at least.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 26, 2016, 11:11:38 AM
Thanks very much gentlemen! I will look into these.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on July 26, 2016, 11:32:15 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 26, 2016, 09:45:52 AM

Complete Sweelinck keyboard music, yes the NM set. Berben and Koopman are both hit or miss.

What's the "NM" set?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 26, 2016, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on July 26, 2016, 11:32:15 AM
What's the "NM" set?

https://www.amazon.de/Sweelinck-Keyboard-Works-Winsemius/dp/B000065618/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1469562014&sr=1-7&keywords=sweelinck
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: jlaurson on July 26, 2016, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 26, 2016, 11:41:09 AM
https://www.amazon.de/Sweelinck-Keyboard-Works-Winsemius/dp/B000065618/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1469562014&sr=1-7&keywords=sweelinck

Oh, yes. Silly me: I have it!  :D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on July 26, 2016, 01:15:11 PM
Well, definitely yes to the NM set for Sweelinck. Berben is nice but perhaps more attuned to the Baroque idiom.
It's amazing that it is still available (again) at a reasonable price.
The Glossa set I don't know but has a similar line up of performers and might be worthwhile as well....

Also concur with the recommendation of Joseph Kelemen's Muffat set:

[asin]B000BDGBZY[/asin]

I agree that the Frescobaldi sets (Tactus or Brilliant) are not an unqualified succes, though I prefer the latter.
This is an unqualified succes however:

[asin]B000G7EXGO[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 27, 2016, 02:46:21 AM
Quote from: Que on July 26, 2016, 01:15:11 PM
Well, definitely yes to the NM set for Sweelinck. Berben is nice but perhaps more attuned to the Baroque idiom.
It's amazing that it is still available (again) at a reasonable price.
The Glossa set I don't know but has a similar line up of performers and might be worthwhile as well....



I have a friend who thinks that NM and Glossa embody radically different approaches to Sweelinck. The former rather reverential and heavy - an attempt to bring Sweelinck closer to Bach. And the latter much lighter and more lyrical and less baroque.

I have listened to some of the Glossa set but honestly, I don't hear these different ideologies. I really should listen again more closely. I have found NM consistently rewarding I think, and there are bits of it which were real joys to discover for me, like Asperen's contribution, which helped me to see how fabulously alive counterpoint could sound.

But then Winsemius's contribution for Glossa is also very special.

I don't know the other two - Berben and Koopman -- well enough to comment with any confidence at all.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 09, 2016, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: Que on July 26, 2016, 01:15:11 PM

Also concur with the recommendation of Joseph Kelemen's Muffat set:

[asin]B000BDGBZY[/asin]

Q

Just received this set and have been listening for the last few days. The organs--especially the Freundt organ at Klosterneuberg--are astounding. I don't think I've ever heard a more beautiful instrument. I have other (earlier) recordings of this instrument, but they did not make the impression this recording did. I will look for Kelemen's other recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 19, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
(https://cdmarket.s3.amazonaws.com/system/20120417/81338/large.jpg)

This CD by Klaus Eichhorn, which had been rare and hence expensive, is now streaming on spotify and elsewhere.  It shows a particular side of  Scheidt and Scheidemann: full of joy, freshness, innocence, simplicity. Music which seems rooted in gay song and happy dance.

Eichhorn is outstanding at judging  how to move the music on so that the ear is constantly titivated by new ideas - essential because quite frankly, the music as presented is so modest and unpretentious that if you were given the chance to think about it too much you'd be bored.  But you're not given the chance and so boredom ain't on the horizon. It's like you're in an Aladdin's cave of coulours, sounds and tunes: every moment there's a new earful of something delightful. I had to stop myself from clapping and dancing round the room as it was playing.

In truth, it's no surprise that Scheidemann and Scheidt have a happy clappy side, because so does Sweelinck (it includes Scheidt's Frantzösisch Liedgen, based in Est-ce Mars?) But I'm so used to thinking of things like the Magnificats that I was really astounded by this collection.  We're very far from the baroque, far from stylus fantasticus, in this recording.  More like the book of folk songs and country dances. No intimations of Buxtehude and Bach at all.

Cool organ too - just right for the style of play. Someone should record Bohm on this organ - in fact Eichhorn may be just the chap.

I remember someone here, Florestan maybe, once saying he couldn't bear early keyboard music because there's no good tunes. Well, this is the CD - or rather download - for him.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 27, 2016, 02:10:47 PM
OK, have been listening to some Mendelssohn organ music (Vater unser im Himmelreich) lately, and am now interested in a complete set (or outstanding individual CDs)...Thanks.

EDIT: Peter Hurford CD looks very interesting, given how much I like his Bach.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 28, 2016, 11:17:08 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 27, 2016, 02:10:47 PM
OK, have been listening to some Mendelssohn organ music (Vater unser im Himmelreich) lately, and am now interested in a complete set (or outstanding individual CDs)...Thanks.

EDIT: Peter Hurford CD looks very interesting, given how much I like his Bach.

I've got the 3CD-set of Vernet and I like it, even though it's been some time since I last listened to it.

http://www.olivier-vernet.com/fr/discography/felix-mendelssohn-integrale-de-loeuvre-pour-orgue-barenreiter/

https://www.amazon.com/lOeuvre-Pour-Orgue-Songe-mains/dp/B000P7VOY4/?tag=goodmusicguideco
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 29, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 27, 2016, 02:10:47 PM
OK, have been listening to some Mendelssohn organ music (Vater unser im Himmelreich) lately, and am now interested in a complete set (or outstanding individual CDs)...Thanks.

EDIT: Peter Hurford CD looks very interesting, given how much I like his Bach.

There is a  "great" organ recording with the Mendelssohn op 65 sonatas, it is magnificent. But it may not be possible to buy it any more. it is by Gerd Zacher and it includes the Brahms op 122 preludes, equally wonderful, bold and imaginative. The organ, by Karl Schuke in Essen, is magic, and the sound take puts you very convincingly in the body of the church, as it were. If you want I will let you have the files.

Gerd Zacher is a magnificent and creative organist, here, in Bach and in Schoenberg, Kagel and Ligeti.

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/CCYB_050502_SA__41619__01152009120613-5777.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 29, 2016, 07:37:39 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
Gerd Zacher is a magnificent and creative organist, here, in Bach and in Schoenberg, Kagel and Ligeti.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_Zacher
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 29, 2016, 10:22:18 AM
Thanks. I can't find the Zacher anywhere on Amazon.com, but will try .de, .uk, and other sources later on. Among the available recordings, the Vernet looks good, and I would guess the Hurford is quite good as well (although it is far from complete). 

EDIT: Actually I tried different search terms and did find it available on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LC4DBY/sr=1-4/qid=1472494898/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1472494898&sr=1-4
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 05, 2016, 05:44:46 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CbzjaXHjL.jpg)

I dug this CD out because I was interested in exploring Marc Antonio Cavazzoni, Cavazzoni père. I know Liuwe Tamminga's  recording dedicated to the composer, and that left me with the impression that his best work was transcriptions. But here on this extraordinary recording by Sergio Vartolo we have a glorious Ricercar, full of the chiaroscuro that Tamminga's  performances lacked.

Just one thing by MAC. The rest is much more baroque, and is played with intensity, colour, flamboyance. In Vartolo's hands what these ricercari are searching for is variety of affect.

As if that's not enough the organ, Dallam/Lanvellec, is special and rarely recorded as far as I know. I have only two other CDs which use it - English music by Hadrien Jourdin and Froberger by Davit Maroney, and according to France-orgue.fr that's the lot apart from a very rare recording of English music by Kenneth Gilbert - can anyone upload it for me?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 06, 2016, 09:43:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 05, 2016, 05:44:46 AM


As if that's not enough the organ, Dallam/Lanvellec, is special and rarely recorded as far as I know. I have only two other CDs which use it - English music by Hadrien Jourdin and Froberger by Davit Maroney, and according to France-orgue.fr that's the lot apart from a very rare recording of English music by Kenneth Gilbert - can anyone upload it for me?

Th Kenneth Gilbert English music CD at Lanvellec turns out to be cheaply and easily available from here

http://www.skolvreizh.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=23&category_id=10&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3

My copy arrived today, and it is  well recorded, it comes with what looks like a well researched and passionate book on the organ (though that is just a superficial impression from browsing it)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 07, 2016, 01:58:26 AM
I like Williamson's organ music:
[asin]B00J9SEWZ8[/asin]
There is a Naxos CD too.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on October 10, 2016, 04:29:30 PM
These look promising:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514ZbUZnbhL._SY355_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51727ABXtkL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 13, 2016, 09:04:42 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on October 10, 2016, 04:29:30 PM
These look promising:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514ZbUZnbhL._SY355_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51727ABXtkL.jpg)

I like vol 2, stylish modern organ, rare music and Payne's interpretations are good, sometimes more than good.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 13, 2016, 09:24:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 13, 2016, 09:04:42 AM
I like vol 2, stylish modern organ, rare music and Payne's interpretations are good, sometimes more than good.

Yes, vol. 2 contains nice programming and serviceable playing, but vol. 1 is rather forgettable IMO, in part due to weak programming. However Payne would never become my first choice in this music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 13, 2016, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 13, 2016, 09:24:55 AM
Yes, vol. 2 contains nice programming and serviceable playing, but vol. 1 is rather forgettable IMO, in part due to weak programming. However Payne would never become my first choice in this music.

In vol 1 the mass by Gaspard Corrette is not uninteresting I think, but Payne doesn't do it justice.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
Does anyone know if the Walcha "Orgelmeister vor Bach" 4-LP collection was ever on CD? There is a single anthology disc on eloquence but I have not seen any more.

Second question:
Recommend 5 Non-JS-Bach-Organ discs (or smallish anthologies, no huge boxes) you consider essential even for people only moderately into organ music!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 30, 2016, 05:05:44 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
Does anyone know if the Walcha "Orgelmeister vor Bach" 4-LP collection was ever on CD? There is a single anthology disc on eloquence but I have not seen any more.

I've never seen the entire set being reissued.
There once was a 'Buxtehude only' in the DG Galleria series, (probably) also taken from that boxset.

(http://117.imagebam.com/download/JU3TP9r0EyIJQ--IiEZKDw/52356/523551607/0001368576_350.jpg)

https://www.amazon.com/Buxtehude-Organ-Works-Helmut-Walcha/dp/B00000E4C6/?tag=goodmusicguideco
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jo498 on December 30, 2016, 05:24:47 AM
Yes, I saw the Buxtehude disc as well but forgot to mention it. The original anthology seems to have roughly two LPs Buxtehude, two LPs for the rest. The eloquence CD could probably have contained all the rest if they had not included several pieces by Buxtehude. Of course, it is natural to include some Buxtehude as he is the most famous of the bunch but OTOH his music is also far better covered than Boehm, Bruhns, Lübeck etc.

[asin]B00005ND7E[/asin]

LP set on amazon.de: ASIN B00695DUFM
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 30, 2016, 05:45:07 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
[...]
Recommend 5 Non-JS-Bach-Organ discs (or smallish anthologies, no huge boxes) you consider essential even for people only moderately into organ music!

I hope this one counts as a 'smallish anthology'... it's a great collection (6 discs) of historic organs in Spain, France, Italy and Germany, with pieces of f.i. Cabanilles, Sweelinck, Scheidemann, Muffat, Couperin, Frescobaldi, Pachelbel and Bruhns. Organists are Francis Chapelet, Michel Chapuis, René Saorgin and Helmut Winter.

(http://117.imagebam.com/download/922-PGDq0iDjEys6xDOQzA/52356/523556537/2901225.30_G.jpg)

http://www.harmoniamundi.com/#!/albums/1120

And, for a winter's day, this one is perfectly well suited:

(http://117.imagebam.com/download/CNoXdUD1ORK2XlENrv011g/52356/523556552/jb-jvo_s.jpg)

Jacques van Oortmerssen playing Brahms.

https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Complete-Setterquist-Kristine-Church/dp/B0000016GD/?tag=goodmusicguideco
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on December 30, 2016, 09:16:41 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
Does anyone know if the Walcha "Orgelmeister vor Bach" 4-LP collection was ever on CD? There is a single anthology disc on eloquence but I have not seen any more.

Second question:
Recommend 5 Non-JS-Bach-Organ discs (or smallish anthologies, no huge boxes) you consider essential even for people only moderately into organ music!

It was included (3 CDs, I think the entirety of the four LPs) in this
[asin]B01BXNXCK2[/asin]
Of course, that's a solution only if you want at least some of the other stuff in that box (and of course, no liner notes).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2016, 10:37:12 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM

Second question:
Recommend 5 Non-JS-Bach-Organ discs (or smallish anthologies, no huge boxes) you consider essential even for people only moderately into organ music!

The box with 5 organ CDs played by Leonhardt; Alessandrini's 150 years of Italian Music; Payne's 2 CDs for VOX of music from the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book; The box of organ music from the New world with Norbert Broggini and others;  The Sweelinck box on NM.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 30, 2016, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 30, 2016, 09:16:41 AM
It was included (3 CDs, I think the entirety of the four LPs) in this
Of course, that's a solution only if you want at least some of the other stuff in that box (and of course, no liner notes).

And this is why I have passed it by.

Another solution is to digitize the Walcha LPs. I have done this.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 30, 2016, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2016, 10:37:12 AM
The box with 5 organ CDs played by Leonhardt; Alessandrini's 150 years of Italian Music; Payne's 2 CDs for VOX of music from the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book; The box of organ music from the New world with Norbert Broggini and others;  The Sweelinck box on NM.

There is a substantial part of harpsichord music in most of these boxes, though,

Quote from: Mandryka
The box of organ music from the New world with Norbert Broggini and others;

Which box do you think of? I only know one individual CD with Norbert Broggini.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2016, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 30, 2016, 01:21:10 PM

Which box do you think of? I only know one individual CD with Norbert Broggini.

This one

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51G9U%2BF%2BOcL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 31, 2016, 12:12:06 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
Second question:
Recommend 5 Non-JS-Bach-Organ discs (or smallish anthologies, no huge boxes) you consider essential even for people only moderately into organ music!

The NM Sweelinck set is not exactly a smallish collection, but a feast nonetheless....  8) (the Glossa set might be a good alternative)

A selection of other organ discs/ sets I cherish:

[asin]B00022GK4G[/asin]
[asin]B000G7EXGO[/asin]
[asin]B0000245ZA[/asin]
(Or any of the other recordings Andrea Marcon made for Divox)

[asin]B000WPJ7F2[/asin]
[asin]B000BDGBZY[/asin]
(Many other recordings by Joseph Kelemen are gemms)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51sSqaxJxQL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ivY9YO8cL.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 31, 2016, 12:44:18 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2016, 09:41:24 PM
This one

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51G9U%2BF%2BOcL.jpg)

Thanks. I realize that I have ovned this for more than 10 years-
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jo498 on January 01, 2017, 07:43:28 AM
Thanks! Some of them are unfortunately rather expensively oop, others are too much or too specialized for me (I have one Merulo-disc on Aura that is quite strange to my ears and I am not sure I am sufficiently into such early stuff yet).
I have most of Buxtehude's as well as single disc anthologies some of them recommended here. The Walcha I linked above, Ablitzer's "école du nord", one disc of Schoonbrodt playing Sweelinck, one Leonhardt/Frescobaldi, one Tachezi recital (Ossiach) and a few more.

Is nobody interested in 19th+20th century organ music? I got one twofer with romantic organ music but not much really grabbed me therefore I hesitated to get Brahms, Mendelssohn or Rheinberger although I like their non-organ music and the French romantics
[asin]B00004TTIJ[/asin]
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on February 13, 2017, 07:45:42 PM
Bump for the sake of
[asin]B000FFCLTI[/asin]
I have it as part of a Membran box (Spirales), but can certainly suggest this CD as proof that late 20th century composers could still find something to say on the organ.

Works performed
Frode Bitsch
Fantasia on "De levendes Land" pour grand orgue (1994)
Bo Gronbech
Three Liturgical Dances (1981)
Svend Erik Tarp
Four Organ Pieces Op. 87 A-D (1983)
Jesper Madsen
Praetorius Variationer (1983/1989)

Organ used: Poul-Gerhard Andersen organ, Sankt Markus Church Arhus
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 19, 2017, 10:24:19 AM
I'm listening to this one, played on a reconstruction of a 16th-century Niehoff organ like the one Sweelinck played on.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/129/MI0001129545.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I have to say that the opening Fantasia Chromatica is stunning - probably my favorite version, since it uses the full plenum of the organ. I've always thought that the ending of the Fantasia, juxtaposing descending and ascending chromaticism, is one of the most satisfying endings to a piece I've ever heard.

The other fantasies and toccatas are also magnificent - I really like how he starts the D-minor Echo fantasy off with a full plenum, an approach that is rare among organists, but it's a tad bit too fast for my taste.

As for the variation sets, Schoonbroodt seems to have a penchant for "dirty" flutes like quintadenas and plena built on them. I don't know how much I share this penchant, though - I like cleaner flutes and principals.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 19, 2017, 11:17:52 AM
The combination of speed and a slightlly resonant recording ambience is the weakness of that CD, but the sense of spontaneity and enthusiasm is very memorable. I have a few things by Schoonbroodt and I've seen him in concert. There's an excellent Boyvin CD, he's a bit of a specialist in real minor french composers! And I have some Couperin by him but I can't remember anything about it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 19, 2017, 12:38:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 19, 2017, 11:17:52 AM
The combination of speed and a slightlly resonant recording ambience is the weakness of that CD, but the sense of spontaneity and enthusiasm is very memorable. I have a few things by Schoonbroodt and I've seen him in concert. There's an excellent Boyvin CD, he's a bit of a specialist in real minor french composers! And I have some Couperin by him but I can't remember anything about it.

I didn't have a problem with the recording, and thought that it was quite clear even at that speed. I did have reservations about the speed, though, in some pieces.

I also enjoyed his Chaumont on Spotify, and might seek out the other discs. Do please tell me how the Couperin sounds!

His discography (many French composers distributed across different labels, some defunct?)
http://www.sergeschoonbroodt.be/index.php/discographie
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 19, 2017, 11:25:05 PM
I've gone off François Couperin's music completely I'm afraid.

Thanks for pointing out his website, I didn't know he had recorded some Grigny. I've just ordered it.

Schoonbroodt also has a Titelouze CD with some de Cauroy interleaved - apparently there's a connection between the two composers. I like it, it's a fun listening experience not least because the singing is sympathetic and there seems to be a good rapport between organ and voice. And because Schoonbroodt's passion for the music is very palpable in the final verses of the hymns - where Titelouze is at his most inventive. For some reason he's left it out of his discography.

The other French composers he's recorded  don't much interest me at the moment.

Has anyone heard those Bach recordings?


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 20, 2017, 10:23:26 AM
Is it this one? Seems very interesting.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410Q216GMFL.jpg)

I do remember that Ablitzer also recorded a Titelouze disc with interwoven hymns - a friend lent me the disc but I wasn't too impressed by it, and gave it back.

(http://e.snmc.io/lk/f/a/9ead021de7f456561885b9215850d2d2/2294172.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 01:11:19 PM
Have you heard this one?

(http://www.lesmeslanges.org/images/titelouze.jpg)

QuoteDans le premier tiers du XVIIe siècle furent publiés, aux quatre coins de l'Europe, d'extraordinaires chefs-d'oeuvres pour clavier. Les pièces pour orgue de Jehan Titelouze, « Chanoine & Organiste de l'Eglise de Rouën », appartiennent à cette floraison miraculeuse : ses Hymnes de l'Eglise sont imprimées en 1623 chez Ballard (Paris), bientôt suivies d'un second livre consacré au Magnificat ou cantique de la Vierge (1626). Pour célébrer le 450e anniversaire de la naissance du "père de la musique d'orgue française", l'ensemble Les Meslanges a choisi de faire entendre ces pages d'orgue jouées par François Ménissier en alternance avec les voix et autres "instrumens musicaulx" comme le cornet et serpent, instruments indispensables dans les cathédrales comme celle de Rouen au XVIIe siècle. Ce concert aura aussi l'originalité de présenter ce compositeur en relation avec les musiciens de son époque dans le lieu où il a évolué: la cathédrale de Rouen. On entendra ainsi de superbes pages de Henri Frémart, maître de musique à la cathédrale de Rouen puis de Notre Dame de Paris, de Jean de Bournonville qui remporta à Rouen et à Evreux le Puy de Sainte Cécile, concours de musique fort réputé à l'époque...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 20, 2017, 02:28:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 01:11:19 PM
Have you heard this one?

(http://www.lesmeslanges.org/images/titelouze.jpg)

Listening to it on Spotify - initial reactions are very good; the organ is powerful and brilliant and I enjoy the cornetti accompanying the voices.

Now that I think of it, I don't listen to enough French Organ music. The discs that I have and listen to more often are Leonhardt's Couperin and Marchand on the Dom Dedos, an earlier one of his with Bouyvin and Chaumont, and also Titelouze by Bates.

Edit: I'm thinking of getting the Titelouze by Goecke - are you familiar with it?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 10:38:36 PM
 Goecke is Apollo and Bates is Dionyssus.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 10:44:34 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 20, 2017, 02:28:34 PM
Now that I think of it, I don't listen to enough French Organ music. The discs that I have and listen to more often are Leonhardt's Couperin and Marchand on the Dom Dedos, an earlier one of his with Bouyvin and Chaumont, and also Titelouze by Bates.



Four French organ recordings I like are Jan Willem Jansen's Louis Couperin, Gillian Weir's Roberday, Bernard Coudurier's Grigny (both of them) and Freddy Eichelberger's Marchand.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 21, 2017, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 10:44:34 PM
Four French organ recordings I like are Jan Willem Jansen's Louis Couperin, Gillian Weir's Roberday, Bernard Coudurier's Grigny (both of them) and Freddy Eichelberger's Marchand.

Thanks - I'll shamefully admit that the only one I've listened to before is Coudurier, so there's lots to explore here.

Quote from: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 10:38:36 PM
Goecke is Apollo and Bates is Dionyssus.

Nice to know that I've been having strong mead for all this time!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 22, 2017, 10:29:50 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 20, 2017, 10:38:36 PM
Goecke is Apollo and Bates is Dionyssus.

What would you in this terminology call Darasse, Prefontaine, Schoonbroodt and Ablitzer?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 22, 2017, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 22, 2017, 10:29:50 AM
What would you in this terminology call Darasse, Prefontaine, Schoonbroodt and Ablitzer?

Darasse - Iris
Prefontaine - Krishna
Schoonbroodt - Mercury
Ablitzer - He's not God of anything.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 22, 2017, 12:11:01 PM
Just ordered this Vierne Missa Solennelle from Germany. None available in the U.S.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21GF1D0V4JL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 22, 2017, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 22, 2017, 11:53:41 AM
Darasse - Iris
Prefontaine - Krishna
Schoonbroodt - Mercury
Ablitzer - He's not God of anything.

I have to think about this....

Iris (rainbow), do you mean colorful?

Krishna (the creator) do you mean perfect?

Mercury (god of trade) do you mean commercial?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 23, 2017, 07:49:03 AM

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 22, 2017, 03:02:26 PM

Iris (rainbow), do you mean colorful?


Yes

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 22, 2017, 03:02:26 PM

Krishna (the creator) do you mean perfect?



I think Krishna is a bit like Loge in the ring, a sort of uncontrollable and highly spontaneous life force. I think Prefontaine is particularly  flamboyant and wild sounding sometimes, more so that Bates. You can here an Italian side to Titelouze in Prefontaine.

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 22, 2017, 03:02:26 PM


Mercury

Fast. Winged sandals.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 23, 2017, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2017, 07:49:03 AM
I think Krishna is a bit like Loge in the ring, a sort of uncontrollable and highly spontaneous life force. I think Prefontaine is particularly  flamboyant and wild sounding sometimes, more so that Bates. You can here an Italian side to Titelouze in Prefontaine.

Really? I know the Prefontaine set, but didn't bother listening to it after finding the Ad coenam rather indifferently trotted through. Bates takes a similar fast pace, but at least his heavier, reedier registrations give it a sense of grandeur and urgency.

There's something intensely religious in Bates' performance that just reminds me of the atmosphere of Ablitzer's Praetorius.

I'll have to revisit Prefontaine though - there's probably something that I didn't pick up on.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2017, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 23, 2017, 04:17:46 PM
Really? I know the Prefontaine set, but didn't bother listening to it after finding the Ad coenam rather indifferently trotted through. Bates takes a similar fast pace, but at least his heavier, reedier registrations give it a sense of grandeur and urgency.

There's something intensely religious in Bates' performance that just reminds me of the atmosphere of Ablitzer's Praetorius.

I'll have to revisit Prefontaine though - there's probably something that I didn't pick up on.

Yes I'm very glad to have Prefontaine's Titelouze.

Another thing I really appreciate by him, maybe more than his Titelouze, is a sequence of fugues by D'Anglebert, in a recording of music from the Livre de Montreal. These fugues are very much like Roberday's fugues and caprices, maybe they're better, I don't know. I  think I hear the  influence of Frescobaldi in all these composers' organ music  - D'Anglebert, Roberday and even Titelouze.  It's a shame that Prefontaine hasn't recorded Roberday.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 24, 2017, 06:27:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2017, 01:17:43 PM
Yes I'm very glad to have Prefontaine's Titelouze.

Another thing I really appreciate by him, maybe more than his Titelouze, is a sequence of fugues by D'Anglebert, in a recording of music from the Livre de Montreal. These fugues are very much like Roberday's fugues and caprices, maybe they're better, I don't know. I  think I hear the  influence of Frescobaldi in all these composers' organ music  - D'Anglebert, Roberday and even Titelouze.  It's a shame that Prefontaine hasn't recorded Roberday.

Just listened to the Fugues, which I am already quite familiar with. Quite nice!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2017, 09:57:25 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 24, 2017, 06:27:30 PM
Just listened to the Fugues, which I am already quite familiar with. Quite nice!

You mean the D'Anglebert fugues? Do you know any other recordings?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 24, 2017, 10:50:56 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2017, 09:57:25 PM
You mean the D'Anglebert fugues? Do you know any other recordings?

I don't think that I have any other recordings of the fugues with me, but I've heard the fugues before somewhere (a friend? I don't go to concerts in organ-barren California) and really liked them. Thought they were Roberday at first, though.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 25, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
I bet their attribution is problematic.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 25, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 25, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
I bet their attribution is problematic.

Probably not. They were included in his Pièces de clavecin publication, after all.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 25, 2017, 10:33:09 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 25, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
Probably not. They were included in his Pièces de clavecin publication, after all.

Ah, I didn't know that.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 25, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/119/MI0001119615.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Georg Friedrich Kauffmann wanted to be organist in Leipzig's Tomaskirche, but they gave the job to J S Bach instead. His music is attractive enough, easy to listen to, contrapuntally simple but not banal, harmonically unadventurous but far from dull, melodically catchy. I thought this was an entertaining recording  from Maurizio Conti, and I appreciated finding out more about what sort of music was being made in Leipzig in 1723.  The organ he uses, the Treutmann at Grauhof, is very nice indeed.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 26, 2017, 04:45:05 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 25, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/119/MI0001119615.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Georg Friedrich Kauffmann wanted to be organist in Leipzig's Tomaskirche, but they gave the job to J S Bach instead. His music is attractive enough, easy to listen to, contrapuntally simple but not banal, harmonically unadventurous but far from dull, melodically catchy. I thought this was an entertaining recording  from Maurizio Conti, and I appreciated finding out more about what sort of music was being made in Leipzig in 1723.  The organ he uses, the Treutmann at Grauhof, is very nice indeed.

Quite a fun recording, but didn't stand up to many listens for me.
I guess when it comes to chorale-based works, I'm more of a 17th century person - I'd rather listen to a 2nd-rate 17th century composer (e.g. Duben) than a 2nd-rate 18th century one.
I did, however, really enjoy his "German organ music" disc, and also his recent "Bach mirrored" - very lively playing!

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/149/MI0001149985.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://frabernardo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/fb_1611911_bach_croci_COVER.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 27, 2017, 11:47:56 PM
And now for something completely different:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZzFEIwniL._SY450_.jpg)

I have some of these on LP but want to complete my set. Aboot as far from HIP as you can get I suppose; still some unforgettable performances IMO.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 27, 2017, 11:53:53 PM
I just FLAC-ed this LP, hence my re-awakened interest in Dupré. A Cavaillé-Coll instrument is not a Bach organ, but the performances are magesterial, deeply felt, and serene.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hdVg-uFoL._SX300_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 02, 2017, 04:51:56 PM
I'm listening to an excellent broadcast by Deuschlandfunk of Sietze de Vries playing the beautiful Renaissance organ in Westerhusen. Listen to that tinkly mixture stop!
http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/krummhoerner-orgelfruehling-2016-alte-meister-neue.1988.de.html?dram:article_id=376757
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 06, 2017, 05:25:20 PM
Another "Guess the performer" for you guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMNO7VGcyt0

This is one of my favorite interpretations of Frescobaldi's Toccata Quarta, which is also one of my favorite Frescobaldi pieces.
But who's playing it? The title isn't helpful here (and I could care less if nothing is real and everything is an illusion). But at least we know it's played on the 1565 Graziadio Antegnati in Santa Barbara, Mantua.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 06, 2017, 10:40:28 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 06, 2017, 05:25:20 PM
Another "Guess the performer" for you guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMNO7VGcyt0

This is one of my favorite interpretations of Frescobaldi's Toccata Quarta, which is also one of my favorite Frescobaldi pieces.
But who's playing it? The title isn't helpful here (and I could care less if nothing is real and everything is an illusion). But at least we know it's played on the 1565 Graziadio Antegnati in Santa Barbara, Mantua.

Loreggian maybe.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 06, 2017, 11:24:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 06, 2017, 10:40:28 PM
Loreggian maybe.

By Loreggian, I'm assuming that you mean the Tactus Frescobaldi set. The piece on it is played by Vartolo, and it's not the one I'm looking for (no idea which organ it is).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK6seoB9i1A

I looked through the recordings available on Spotify and didn't find it (Unless, of course, I'm not looking).

Edit: Yep, I'm not looking. It's Loreggian, in the Brilliant Frescobaldi set. Thanks! Now tell me - is this set a worthwile investment?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 07, 2017, 12:58:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/dw2lfN_Knn4


Jonathan Giblin, Reincken An wasserflussen babylon, Taylor and Boody Cincinnati. The nice thing about this is that we see the manuscript Bach made under Boehm.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 07, 2017, 01:04:09 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 06, 2017, 11:24:12 PM

Edit: Yep, I'm not looking. It's Loreggian, in the Brilliant Frescobaldi set. Thanks! Now tell me - is this set a worthwile investment?

Well you can hear it all for yourself on spotify. I only know Bk 2. It's more sensual than Vartolo, who is my favourite probably. Not keen on Aymes in Bk 2. Loreggian has some very nice instruments.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 10, 2017, 08:45:15 PM
Flamboyancy could be a virtue.....

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 11, 2017, 05:09:20 PM
I saw Bruhns have been discussed several times but not Lubeck.  I find his compositions quite penetrating while only few of his works have survived. I like the recordings below. The both are virtuoso performances though the Coudurier disc has a better recording sound.  Does anybody know about these organs?? Any opinions?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 11, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 11, 2017, 05:09:20 PM
I saw Bruhns have been discussed several times but not Lubeck.  I find his compositions quite penetrating while only few of his works have survived. I like the recordings below. The both are virtuoso performances though the Coudurier disc has a better recording sound.  Does anybody know about these organs?? Any opinions?

Massive organ nerd here!

The organ in the 1st disc is the organ in St. Ludger's Church (Ludgerikirche) in Norden, Germany. It's an exceptional, but quirkily shaped organ, since the church itself is so strangely shaped and if it were to be placed in a "standard" position, half of the congregation wouldn't be able to hear it!
It started out as a Rennaissance instrument built in 1618 incorporating 16th-century pipework, but was extensively rebuilt by the famous Northern German maker Schnitger (who monopolized organ-building, an industry of scale, in Northern Germany, built Lubeck's organs in Hamburg and Stade, and whom Buxtehude knew well). After being mindlessly altered in the 19th century, it was restored back to full glory by the Ahrends.
Here's a video featuring it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQ2OIMYsjs

Some other excellent recordings featuring it I can think of are Foccroulle's Tunder, Bob van Asperen's Froberger, Leonhardt's disc "Northern German organ works," and of course MDG's series featuring this organ.

The other organ is the Treutmann in Grauhof, an organ that was built later in the 1730's. This is the Central-German (as opossed to Schnitger's Norther German) type that Bach, but not Lubeck, would be familiar with -- compared to the relatively conservative Northern Organs, it has many more string stops and strove for a milder, more colorful sound. It also shows influences of different organ schools; there are french influences and also Italian ones (the Oberwerk, played through the 3rd manual, sounds like an Italian organ!) But this can be a hit-or-miss in Lubeck's works - sometimes, I like the gravitas and color it has, but other times, I miss the screaming, blinding mixtures of a great Northern organ.

Can't think of recordings played on this organ that impress me too much, but Messori's Bach played on this organ is quite nice. So are the few All-of-Bach selections played on it
http://allofbach.com/en/bwv/bwv-615/

As for the playing, Coudurier is quite nice and uses the organ well, although there are some clunky moments here and there. For Vincent Lubeck, I think I like Bocker's double album of his works (May be OOP), or Kelemen, who plays on Lubeck's own Schnitger organ in Stade. (I don't usually tend to like Kelemen, but he is pretty darn exciting in this disc!). Jacques van Oortmerssen has an excellent recording of the C Major Prelude on his recording "The Arp Schnitger organ at the St. Cosmae Church in Stade" on denon.

Flamme's playing can be a hit-or-miss, although I like this Lubeck disc. His Schildt is also pretty cool, too.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2017, 09:52:26 PM
The only Lubeck piece I've explored really is Ich ruf zu dir.

Leon Berben's probably my favourite from commercial recordings, I think it has all the vitality of Coudurier and Chapuis, and I appreciate Berben's extra grandeur and  spirituality. Walter Kraft 's recording probably influenced my expectations of the music. But Kraft's recordings aren't available and anyway the sound's not very good.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 11, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 11, 2017, 09:52:26 PM
The only Lubeck piece I've explored really is Ich ruf zu dir.

Leon Berben's probably my favourite from commercial recordings, I think it has all the vitality of Coudurier and Chapuis, and I appreciate Berben's extra grandeur and  spirituality. Walter Kraft 's recording probably influenced my expectations of the music. But Kraft's recordings aren't available and anyway the sound's not very good.

Berben's mighty fine, but hard to find....

Good news: it's on Spotify! Woohoo!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 12, 2017, 01:57:41 AM
Walter Kraft's Lübeck remains my favorite even if the sound is somewhat dated and mono (Vox ca 1956). Other than this I agree about Böcker and Coudurier. But most of the few existing Lübeck sets are worth a listen, f.i. this:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelwerke-Hansen-S%C3%B6ren-Gleerup/dp/B000ICM2FG/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1489316133&sr=1-8&keywords=vincent+l%C3%BCbeck

If somebody wants to hear the Kraft recording, send me a PM.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 12, 2017, 08:20:24 AM
Thank you for the valuable info. I like the organ Coudurier played.  Kelemen is on Spotify too. Hansen is on YT. I will look for Bocker.

Bocker:  https://youtu.be/19l9ypvsFUA
Hansen: https://youtu.be/Zk17wbZvXeM
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 12, 2017, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 12, 2017, 08:20:24 AM
Thank you for the valuable info. I like the organ Coudurier played.  Kelemen is on Spotify too. Hansen is on YT. I will look for Bocker.

Bocker:  https://youtu.be/19l9ypvsFUA
Hansen: https://youtu.be/Zk17wbZvXeM

I didn't know Hansen, but the organ he used gave me a bad "neo-baroque" aftertaste. Anyone know which one it is?

Funny that Bocker's holding the same post at St. Cosmae at Stade that Lubeck held 300 years ago.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 12, 2017, 06:32:12 PM
They are on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0-pevKlo6lKCYqb_soBMACZN21wOwSHR

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzbGzcWoNFo_fiFRsqRoy7MswsLgYMpG

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeYmSJofT2BcoKl7NrED799a3CSuYZY8X

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNfNpC82zjVigPW6JoeyDrD3Vl5pvyGXe









Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 28, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
Just received the Cornet 2 CD set (Arnaud Van de Cauter), recommended in this thread, and am enjoying it a great deal. Also, today, I stumbled across this set, which looks very intriguing. Does anyone have this?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TeqjueVgL._SX425_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMUSsrNZL.jpg)

My German is crap (I'm barely an A2 speaker after all my efforts), but I will try to get through this review:

http://de.brilliantclassics.com/2015/12/various-500-years-of-organ-music/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 12, 2017, 06:57:05 PM
Any review/opinion on the Great European Organs Series by Kimberly Marshall, Gerard Brooks, etc?  Thanks.

http://prioryrecords.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_66

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 12, 2017, 10:59:59 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TeqjueVgL._SX425_.jpg)

Proper review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Apr/Organ_500_years_95310.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 12, 2017, 11:38:23 PM
This one might be interesting, too: a twofer filled with North German baroque organ music, played on beautiful Schnitgers in the Niedersachsen region. It's a nice selection of works by Sweelinck, Scheidt, Scheidemann, Tunder, Buxtehude, Lübeck, Böhm, Bruhns et al.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/arp-schnitger-in-niedersachsen/hnum/5196053

http://www.nomine.net/arp-schnitger-in-niedersachsen
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 13, 2017, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 12, 2017, 11:38:23 PM
This one might be interesting, too: a twofer filled with North German baroque organ music, played on beautiful Schnitgers in the Niedersachsen region. It's a nice selection of works by Sweelinck, Scheidt, Scheidemann, Tunder, Buxtehude, Lübeck, Böhm, Bruhns et al.

And it can be added, that most of Vincent Lübeck's organ works are included in this twofer.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 13, 2017, 08:05:48 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 12, 2017, 11:38:23 PM
This one might be interesting, too: a twofer filled with North German baroque organ music, played on beautiful Schnitgers in the Niedersachsen region. It's a nice selection of works by Sweelinck, Scheidt, Scheidemann, Tunder, Buxtehude, Lübeck, Böhm, Bruhns et al.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/arp-schnitger-in-niedersachsen/hnum/5196053

http://www.nomine.net/arp-schnitger-in-niedersachsen

The site states that "Harald Vogel, Hans Davidsson, and Prof. Roland Dopfer are the other guarantors for quality, choice of music and appropriate choice of organ stops." Wow.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 13, 2017, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 12, 2017, 01:57:41 AM
Walter Kraft's Lübeck remains my favorite even if the sound is somewhat dated and mono (Vox ca 1956). Other than this I agree about Böcker and Coudurier. But most of the few existing Lübeck sets are worth a listen, f.i. this:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelwerke-Hansen-S%C3%B6ren-Gleerup/dp/B000ICM2FG/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1489316133&sr=1-8&keywords=vincent+l%C3%BCbeck

If somebody wants to hear the Kraft recording, send me a PM.

I would appreciate your review, perhaps negative one, on Flamme work.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 13, 2017, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 13, 2017, 08:05:48 AM
The site states that "Harald Vogel, Hans Davidsson, and Prof. Roland Dopfer are the other guarantors for quality, choice of music and appropriate choice of organ stops." Wow.

Prof. Harald Vogel.
And Prof. Hans Davidsson.

Prof. Prof. Prof.
(Herr Professor. Welcome in Germany.)

Seriously: I have the predecessor of this set (gone OOP now) and it's a great collection.
Dunno why they replaced some of the performances in this re-issue, maybe because Prof., Prof. and Prof. did not agree with the choice of organ stops... :P
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 14, 2017, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 13, 2017, 11:45:40 PM
Prof. Harald Vogel.
And Prof. Hans Davidsson.

Prof. Prof. Prof.
(Herr Professor. Welcome in Germany.)


My former organ teacher once told a story about one of Karl Richter's recordings for DG. Unfortunately the producers name was also Richter and even the engineers name was Richter. So they adressed each other in this way:

Professor Richter (Karl Richter)
Doctor Richter (the producer)
Hr. Richter (the engineer)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 14, 2017, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 14, 2017, 11:51:58 AM
My former organ teacher once told a story about one of Karl Richter's recordings for DG. Unfortunately the producers name was also Richter and even the engineers name was Richter. So they adressed each other in this way:

Professor Richter (Karl Richter)
Doctor Richter (the producer)
Hr. Richter (the engineer)

Did DG ever record Bach's 'piano' concertos with S. Richter, accompanied by the Münchner Bach-Orchester (et al)?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 14, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 13, 2017, 07:26:15 PM
I would appreciate your review, perhaps negative one, on Flamme work.

My greatest concern is about the organ (Treutmann / Grauhof) which I think is an unfortunate choice for V. Lübeck's organ works. It would be natural to choose a Schnitger-type instrument. But the Treutmann organ does not sound really North German, rather somewhere between Thüringean and South German. Generally its plenum seems to have a fat sound, which does not blend too well (this is also my impression from other recordings of this organ - I have not heard it live)  but on the other hand there are a number of nice solo stops, which however generally are of little use in Lübeck's works. I think it might be well suited for Pachelbel. Flamme's registrations tend to be too full and the spacious acoustics are of no help to clarify the details. Otherwise Flamme's ideas about Lübeck's music are not bad, f.i. he displays a relevant sense of the Stylus Phantasticus which is so important in this music. And there can be a lot of drive in his playlng, the effect of which unfortunately is damped by the reverberation.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 14, 2017, 01:00:29 PM
Quote from: Marc on March 14, 2017, 12:12:03 PM
Did DG ever record Bach's 'piano' concertos with S. Richter, accompanied by the Münchner Bach-Orchester (et al)?

Fortunately not.

BTW Karl Richter in München often used a basoon player called Fritz Henker.

Richter means judge
Henker means hangman
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 14, 2017, 02:15:35 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 14, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
My greatest concern is about the organ (Treutmann / Grauhof) which I think is an unfortunate choice for V. Lübeck's organ works. It would be natural to choose a Schnitger-type instrument. But the Treutmann organ does not sound really North German, rather somewhere between Thüringean and South German. Generally its plenum seems to have a fat sound, which does not blend too well (this is also my impression from other recordings of this organ - I have not heard it live)  but on the other hand there are a number of nice solo stops, which however generally are of little use in Lübeck's works. I think it might be well suited for Pachelbel. Flamme's registrations tend to be too full and the spacious acoustics are of no help to clarify the details. Otherwise Flamme's ideas about Lübeck's music are not bad, f.i. he displays a relevant sense of the Stylus Phantasticus which is so important in this music. And there can be a lot of drive in his playlng, the effect of which unfortunately is damped by the reverberation.
I appreciate the insightful critique. I did not know the historical context for organ choice. Largey I agree with your analyses about the organ sound, reverb, and his able execution. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 14, 2017, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 14, 2017, 11:51:58 AM
My former organ teacher once told a story about one of Karl Richter's recordings for DG. Unfortunately the producers name was also Richter and even the engineers name was Richter. So they adressed each other in this way:

Professor Richter (Karl Richter)
Doctor Richter (the producer)
Hr. Richter (the engineer)
Professors do not have to have doctoral degree though most of them at major universities do. In this case, the producer may appear to have a higher positin than KR.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 20, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
How do people think of CPO's Pachelbel organ series?
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Jul14/Pachelbel_organ_v1_7775562.jpg)
It seems that most performances are just solid, nothing amazing or extremely convincing, but I wonder if there are any gems in there.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2017, 02:40:53 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 20, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
How do people think of CPO's Pachelbel organ series?
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Jul14/Pachelbel_organ_v1_7775562.jpg)
It seems that most performances are just solid, nothing amazing or extremely convincing, but I wonder if there are any gems in there.

Yes, I mean no, I mean you're right, even though there are lots of different organists they're all a bit too solemn and earthbound - they never escape orbit and fly to the stars. The second instalment has been released but I have haven't heard it.

(I'm still enjoying Albert Bolliger's Pachelbel.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: ahinton on March 21, 2017, 03:15:46 AM
https://goldrush.uiowa.edu/project/5439

For further information on this historic event and the plans for this music, please write to me at sorabji-archive@lineone.net .
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 01, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 11, 2017, 09:52:26 PM
The only Lubeck piece I've explored really is Ich ruf zu dir.

Leon Berben's probably my favourite from commercial recordings, I think it has all the vitality of Coudurier and Chapuis, and I appreciate Berben's extra grandeur and  spirituality. Walter Kraft 's recording probably influenced my expectations of the music. But Kraft's recordings aren't available and anyway the sound's not very good.

Follow-up: Berben's Lubeck sounds solid and colorful. I love it. Thank you for the info, ladies and/or gents.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 20, 2017, 08:17:05 AM
Not totally uninteresting article here on touch sensitivity

http://www.pykett.org.uk/touchsens.htm

QuoteAttempts have been made for centuries to develop a keyboard instrument having something of the qualities which make, say, a violin seem to be part of the player (when played well, that is).  The unity of the instrument and the performer is demonstrated by the enormous variety of tone colours, dynamics and subtle articulations which almost approach the human voice in expressive power.  The invention of the forte-piano was the first major breakthrough enabling a keyboard player to have direct control over the way the notes are sounded, and the expressive capability of a modern grand piano is elegant testimony to the developments that followed. . . a number of transient effects occur with organ pipes, and that some of these at least are under the control of the performer at a suitable instrument.  Invariably this has to have a mechanical action designed according to sound engineering principles.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 23, 2017, 02:51:16 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/575/MI0003575908.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (http://www.heinrichvontrotta.eu/Seon/_LP/1977-Organo-Norddeutsche-300.jpg)

There's a little recorded choral partita by Scheidemann called Herr Christ der einig Gottes sohn. Leonhardt seems to have had a special penchant for it, because there are at least two recordings, one at the old church in Amsterdam, one at Marienhafe. In addition there is recording from Bernard Coudurier (I think a bit glib, but others may enjoy the simplicity. I enjoy the simplicity, but not when I've not Leonhardt ringing in my head! ) and one from Julia Brown on Naxos (to me the registrations sound unusual, but the performance is "deeply felt")

Leonhardt in Amsterdam benefits from the best organ - the best gravitas - and it inspires him to give a fabulous performance, one that convinces me that the music is a mini-masterpiece. Leonhardt's "deeply felt" like Julia Brown, but Leonhardt's deep feeling is less romantic, if you know what I mean. I think this is my favourite.

The organ in Marienhafe (Saxony) is less imposing, but is maybe a bit more interestingly astringent from the point of view of harmonies (I think that the Amsterdam church organ was equally tuned when Leonhardt made the recording.) The performance he gives there seems slightly more improvised, more flamboyant, more like a precursor of  Stylus Fantasticus - it's interesting to hear the two together, to hear how the musician adapted to the instrument at his disposal.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 30, 2017, 06:08:02 AM
Fun recording by Eric Lebrun. Lively and bright.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 15, 2017, 10:44:23 AM
What are the essential Bernard Couderier disks? I was listening to him play Bach on French organs on Spotify, and, while, very different and interesting, I would not say it is a must-have for my collection. There are many other albums to explore however--which are your favorites?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 15, 2017, 12:44:07 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 15, 2017, 10:44:23 AM
What are the essential Bernard Couderier disks? I was listening to him play Bach on French organs on Spotify, and, while, very different and interesting, I would not say it is a must-have for my collection. There are many other albums to explore however--which are your favorites?

I would say:

Grigny - 2CDs
Lübeck
Bruhns
Scheidemann

They can be found at Amazon.de and Amazon.fr

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 15, 2017, 03:54:44 PM
Thanks. It is too bad they are not available on Amazon.com. Perhaps I will have to bite the bullet pay shipping from Europe, or bite the bullet and settle for MP3s (Why doesn't AMAZON get into the 21st century and offer FLAC!?!?). Maybe I'll be able to find them in Ireland when I visit later this summer.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 15, 2017, 08:26:47 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 15, 2017, 10:44:23 AM
What are the essential Bernard Couderier disks? I was listening to him play Bach on French organs on Spotify, and, while, very different and interesting, I would not say it is a must-have for my collection. There are many other albums to explore however--which are your favorites?



I love the  Scheidemann, the Norden Schnitger is wonderfully recorded and the style is sometimes like chamber music, intimate and lyrical.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 16, 2017, 01:49:51 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 15, 2017, 03:54:44 PM
Thanks. It is too bad they are not available on Amazon.com. Perhaps I will have to bite the bullet pay shipping from Europe, or bite the bullet and settle for MP3s (Why doesn't AMAZON get into the 21st century and offer FLAC!?!?). Maybe I'll be able to find them in Ireland when I visit later this summer.

I did not know, that you live overseas.

The Bruhns and the Grigny are available at Amazon.com: (MP)

https://www.amazon.com/Lorgue-Baroque-En-Allemagne-D/dp/B00008LOPA/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1497606251&sr=1-6&keywords=bernard+coudurier

https://www.amazon.com/Loeuvre-Dorgue-BERNARD-COUDURIER-ENSEMBLE/dp/B00008LOPE/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1497606251&sr=1-5&keywords=bernard+coudurier

https://www.amazon.com/Hymnes-Vol-Cintegabelle-Alternatim/dp/B000025B1K/ref=sr_1_14?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1497606561&sr=1-14&keywords=bernard+coudurier
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on June 16, 2017, 11:32:07 AM
Thanks! I searched for Bernard Couderier yesterday and nothing came up.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 17, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SHcAAOxyXDhSmh0U/s-l300.jpg)

This recording by Wolfram Syré on the label Motette is possibly the best sounding, best engineered, organ recording I've heard. I mean, there may be some SACDs but really this is pretty special!

I wonder if there are any other good things on Motette. Most of their stuff is later music than interests me, but I noticed one thing, a recording by Felix Friedrich in Vogtland.

Wolfram Syré is clearly an outstanding musician, and his website is chockablock with free recordings, but all on midi organs!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 18, 2017, 12:32:49 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 17, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SHcAAOxyXDhSmh0U/s-l300.jpg)

This recording by Wolfram Syré on the label Motette is possibly the best sounding, best engineered, organ recording I've heard. I mean, there may be some SACDs but really this is pretty special!

I wonder if there are any other good things on Motette. Most of their stuff is later music than interests me, but I noticed one thing, a recording by Felix Friedrich in Vogtland.

Wolfram Syré is clearly an outstanding musician, and his website is chockablock with free recordings, but all on midi organs!

I listened to some of his recordings on Contrebombarde, and was mostly less than impressed - most of them had pretty stodgy tempos and execution, and the sheer amount of pieces makes me wonder whether he's looking for quantity over quality here  :(

Although the Tunder disc does seem interesting, judging from JPC sound samples.
How do you think of Foccroulle? He's the one who impressed me enough with the Christ lag in Todesbanden to get me into Tunder.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 18, 2017, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 18, 2017, 12:32:49 AM
I listened to some of his recordings on Contrebombarde, and was mostly less than impressed - most of them had pretty stodgy tempos and execution, and the sheer amount of pieces makes me wonder whether he's looking for quantity over quality here  :(

Although the Tunder disc does seem interesting, judging from JPC sound samples.
How do you think of Foccroulle? He's the one who impressed me enough with the Christ lag in Todesbanden to get me into Tunder.


It was Syré's Christ lag in Todesbanden which made my jaw drop to the floor, when the pedals come in it's like . . . so unbelievably grand and noble.  I like what Foccroulle does with it but I think at the end of the day he's too introverted. There's another thing, Syré handles the transitions more naturally. Basically Syré's Christ lag in Todesbanden is wicked.


(I like Flamme in this piece too!)

I'll put the recording in symphonyshare next week, I've got just 100000MB left to upload to Backblaze so it should be done tomorrow sometime, that'll leave me free to do some sharing.

I haven't heard any of his midi recordings, but he's a bit slow and careful it's true, he reminds me of Götz.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 19, 2017, 04:20:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2017, 09:57:25 PM
You mean the D'Anglebert fugues? Do you know any other recordings?

I dug up Andreas Staier's "Pour passer la melancolie" to listen again, after unfairly neglecting it for a while. Was pretty surprised to hear the 1st fugue on this disc, albeit played on the harpsichord.

Actually I like it better on the harpsichord because everything sounds cleaner and of course freer, but paradoxically the conterpoint is clearer on an organ. On harpsichord it sort of degenerates into an unmeasured-prelude sort of swirl of notes. Or, perhaps I just shouldn't be expecting a nice clean Bach-like fugue out of a French composer?

There's something very Sweelinckian about the fugue, too, that I can't put my finger on.


One random question - between the NM Sweelinck Box (now thankfully on Spotify) and the Glossa box, which one do you prefer?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 19, 2017, 06:15:37 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 19, 2017, 04:20:26 AM
I dug up Andreas Staier's "Pour passer la melancolie" to listen again, after unfairly neglecting it for a while. Was pretty surprised to hear the 1st fugue on this disc, albeit played on the harpsichord.

Actually I like it better on the harpsichord because everything sounds cleaner and of course freer, but paradoxically the conterpoint is clearer on an organ. On harpsichord it sort of degenerates into an unmeasured-prelude sort of swirl of notes. Or, perhaps I just shouldn't be expecting a nice clean Bach-like fugue out of a French composer?

There's something very Sweelinckian about the fugue, too, that I can't put my finger on.


One random question - between the NM Sweelinck Box (now thankfully on Spotify) and the Glossa box, which one do you prefer?

I quite like that performance by Staier, it is a swirl of notes and I like it.

I thought that NM was more consistently satisfying than Glossa.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 19, 2017, 06:20:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 19, 2017, 06:15:37 AM
I quite like that performance by Staier, it is a swirl of notes and I like it.

I thought that NM was more consistently satisfying than Glossa.

I'm curious what you mean by that, because I liked the Glossa more, but am trying to get into the NM.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 19, 2017, 07:56:16 AM
Well there were some things on NM which really had a big impact on me: Asperen and Matter and Winsemius come to mind. Nothing quite got to me in the same way on Glossa as far as I remember, apart from Leonhardt.

I have a friend who HATES the NM, he things it's too solemn, that they play Sweelinck like Bach. And he thinks that Glossa is better and the musicians kind of saw the error of their ways, that's why they rerecorded it. I don't agree by the way.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on June 19, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 17, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SHcAAOxyXDhSmh0U/s-l300.jpg)

This recording by Wolfram Syré on the label Motette is possibly the best sounding, best engineered, organ recording I've heard. I mean, there may be some SACDs but really this is pretty special!

I wonder if there are any other good things on Motette. Most of their stuff is later music than interests me, but I noticed one thing, a recording by Felix Friedrich in Vogtland.

Wolfram Syré is clearly an outstanding musician, and his website is chockablock with free recordings, but all on midi organs!


Thanks for that!  :) Definitely going to check that one out...

Good things on Motette...a superb organ music label indeed...  :)

Personal favourites:

[asin]B000028BTI[/asin]
[asin]B000025ZYI[/asin]
Q


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 20, 2017, 01:41:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2017, 01:21:38 AM

It was Syré's Christ lag in Todesbanden which made my jaw drop to the floor, when the pedals come in it's like . . . so unbelievably grand and noble.  I like what Foccroulle does with it but I think at the end of the day he's too introverted. There's another thing, Syré handles the transitions more naturally. Basically Syré's Christ lag in Todesbanden is wicked.

I've gotten the recording (thank you!  :) ), and am listening to it.

First impressions of Christ lag
The registration is very interesting and he isn't afraid of plena, I've listened to ~6 versions of Christ lag (it's my favorite Tunder piece, aside from the cheeky Canzona!), but this one sounds much rawer and more primitive. I can imagine this being very authentic, especially on the large late-gothic organ that Tunder played. Almost reminds me of Hofhaimer's Salve Regina , perhaps. It's also much more forceful, and you're right Foccroulle lacks cojones when compared to this.

There's something about the articulation here that I love-hate - it's how it's so clear, and even doesn't hesitate to make some breaks as if taking a breath when singing a hymn. I think Wim Winters does that a bit in Bach's partitas.

The notorious chromatic part is marched through without any change in demeanor. Some, like van Laar, soften it with playfulness, or like Foccroulle or Flamme leaven it with a sense of sorrow.
But nope, Syre just plows through it with rather intimidating aplomb and stoicism.

This seems like cold, authoritarian Tunder, one that's never smiles - or errs. More barren tundra than Tunder, even. But I guess it's beautiful in how Brutalist architecture is beautiful.
I like it. Don't know where it places compared to Foccroulle (spotify is down now?!) but it's great in a radically different way. As you say, wicked, perhaps.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 20, 2017, 03:31:50 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 20, 2017, 01:41:36 AM
I've gotten the recording (thank you!  :) ), and am listening to it.

First impressions of Christ lag
The registration is very interesting and he isn't afraid of plena, I've listened to ~6 versions of Christ lag (it's my favorite Tunder piece, aside from the cheeky Canzona!), but this one sounds much rawer and more primitive. I can imagine this being very authentic, especially on the large late-gothic organ that Tunder played. Almost reminds me of Hofhaimer's Salve Regina , perhaps. It's also much more forceful, and you're right Foccroulle lacks cojones when compared to this.

There's something about the articulation here that I love-hate - it's how it's so clear, and even doesn't hesitate to make some breaks as if taking a breath when singing a hymn. I think Wim Winters does that a bit in Bach's partitas.

The notorious chromatic part is marched through without any change in demeanor. Some, like van Laar, soften it with playfulness, or like Foccroulle or Flamme leaven it with a sense of sorrow.
But nope, Syre just plows through it with rather intimidating aplomb and stoicism.

This seems like cold, authoritarian Tunder, one that's never smiles - or errs. More barren tundra than Tunder, even. But I guess it's beautiful in how Brutalist architecture is beautiful.
I like it. Don't know where it places compared to Foccroulle (spotify is down now?!) but it's great in a radically different way. As you say, wicked, perhaps.

Stoicism is a good word. I've grown to like the plenum approach, and like less the more colourful way of playing,
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 21, 2017, 11:21:16 AM
Has anyone heard this one? Dvorak's 9th arranged for Organ?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71AEuiAxbeL._SX355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 24, 2017, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 20, 2017, 01:41:36 AM
I've gotten the recording (thank you!  :) ), and am listening to it.

First impressions of Christ lag
The registration is very interesting and he isn't afraid of plena, I've listened to ~6 versions of Christ lag (it's my favorite Tunder piece, aside from the cheeky Canzona!), but this one sounds much rawer and more primitive. I can imagine this being very authentic, especially on the large late-gothic organ that Tunder played. Almost reminds me of Hofhaimer's Salve Regina , perhaps. It's also much more forceful, and you're right Foccroulle lacks cojones when compared to this.

There's something about the articulation here that I love-hate - it's how it's so clear, and even doesn't hesitate to make some breaks as if taking a breath when singing a hymn. I think Wim Winters does that a bit in Bach's partitas.

The notorious chromatic part is marched through without any change in demeanor. Some, like van Laar, soften it with playfulness, or like Foccroulle or Flamme leaven it with a sense of sorrow.
But nope, Syre just plows through it with rather intimidating aplomb and stoicism.

This seems like cold, authoritarian Tunder, one that's never smiles - or errs. More barren tundra than Tunder, even. But I guess it's beautiful in how Brutalist architecture is beautiful.
I like it. Don't know where it places compared to Foccroulle (spotify is down now?!) but it's great in a radically different way. As you say, wicked, perhaps.

Interesting also to compare what Flamme and Syré do with the massive Was komm uns kommen an fur not. They're like chalk and cheese, Syré static, Flamme dynamic. I shall dig out Ruiter - Feenstra later.

Flamme's organ is anachronistic unfortunately. I wonder why he chose it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on July 20, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
The last week or so I have been going through the Spang-Hanssen set of Buxtehude organ works, and a possibly silly question occurred to me.

When were those "freeform" organ works performed.  All those toccatas, preludes and preludiums, canzonas, pastorales and of course fugues:. Bach was not the only one to write such things.  But when were they played? As mood music while the congregation settled into the pews or left after service? Or while the clergy processed up and back? At little recitals during the week?

What function did they have?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2017, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 20, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
The last week or so I have been going through the Spang-Hanssen set of Buxtehude organ works, and a possibly silly question occurred to me.

When were those "freeform" organ works performed.  All those toccatas, preludes and preludiums, canzonas, pastorales and of course fugues:. Bach was not the only one to write such things.  But when were they played? As mood music while the congregation settled into the pews or left after service? Or while the clergy processed up and back? At little recitals during the week?

What function did they have?

I think that the church (as a building) had a much broader (social) function in those days. Doors were almost always open, one could walk in to relax, talk with other people, make a (business) deal or two. The organist was sometimes there to accompany those social churgoers, and probably to astonish them from time to time, either with free works or with hymn-based stuff (and improvisation). In short: promenade concerts. ;)
Apart from that, I guess that even then organists already organized organ concerts.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jo498 on July 20, 2017, 10:56:34 PM
Buxtehude's "Abendmusik" took place in church although they were basically concerts without a service. At such and similar occasions even long and elaborate pieces could be played.
Shorter Toccatas (or the like) could be played as "intrata" before the church service began and at the end. And while many festive occasions had even choral music (like Bach's cantatas for the inauguration of the new city council, "Ratswechselkantaten") I think that there were other festive services where one would not bother with a whole cantata but be happy about any additional splendour an organ could give to the occasion.
There are so many fairly big organs even in small towns and villages all over (northern/central) Europe. This was a considerable expense for the community, so I think they found many ways to make use of them.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 29, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
What about the older generation of organists? It seems there is very little mention of these performers here. I realize they often played instruments that are not historically appropriate and had styles that are far removed from modern HIP mentality. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of their recordings a great deal

Thoughts and recommended recordings of:

Marcel Dupré (and his student Michael Murray)
Karl Richter
Anton Heiller
Albert Schweitzer
Pierre Cochereau

??



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on July 29, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 29, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
What about the older generation of organists? It seems there is very little mention of these performers here. I realize they often played instruments that are not historically appropriate and had styles that are far removed from modern HIP mentality. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of their recordings a great deal

Thoughts and recommended recordings of:

Marcel Dupré (and his student Michael Murray)
Karl Richter
Anton Heiller
Albert Schweitzer
Pierre Cochereau

??

Check out the Mercury Living Presence recordings of Marcel Dupre' !  He was no slouch as a composer either!

https://www.amazon.com/Marcel-Dupre-Remastered/dp/B0113A5ANW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 (https://www.amazon.com/Marcel-Dupre-Remastered/dp/B0113A5ANW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8)

Michael Murray has some excellent recordings of the organ symphonies of Louis Vierne.

[asin]B000009K3Y[/asin]

Along with Dupre', the "go to" organist in the good ol' days (my good ol' days at least) was E. Powers Biggs !'

I found this recording from the good ol' days of QUADRAPHONIC STEREO!!!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71dfI5qbGFL._SX425_.jpg)

Now on an SACD:

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Biggs-Rheinberger-Concertos-Orchestra/dp/B01N2126KT/ref=sr_1_15?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1501369014&sr=1-15&keywords=E.+Power+Biggs (https://www.amazon.com/Power-Biggs-Rheinberger-Concertos-Orchestra/dp/B01N2126KT/ref=sr_1_15?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1501369014&sr=1-15&keywords=E.+Power+Biggs)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 29, 2017, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 29, 2017, 12:54:42 PM

Thoughts and recommended recordings of:

Pierre Cochereau

??

BWV 686, there used to be a really crazy over the top one on YouTube , here

https://www.youtube.com/v/EFw1QlCM35I
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 30, 2017, 12:39:55 AM
And anyone who can enjoy Cochereau's Aus Tiefer Not may well enjoy Virgil Fox's organ rendition of Stokowski's orchestral transcription of Komm süsser Tod on the Wanamaker in Macy's department store in Philadelphia.


https://www.youtube.com/v/Xje4OYalB5Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on July 31, 2017, 05:08:00 PM
I like baroque works played romantically  :)

Some Sweelinck in St. Suplice. (although a bit fast to be called romantic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyhZaSso414
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 31, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
B@stard probably pours ketchup over his Boeuf Bourguignon  :laugh:

Seriously, I love his videos; he looks as if he's having such a great time. (although so much talking through the music). I would like to get some of his CDs.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 01, 2017, 02:53:50 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on July 31, 2017, 05:08:00 PM
I like baroque works played romantically  :)

Some Sweelinck in St. Suplice. (although a bit fast to be called romantic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyhZaSso414

You know I never realised that fantasy was based on a real hymn tune before, it's a revelation to hear it played with someone singing along like that. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 01, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 01, 2017, 02:53:50 AM
You know I never realised that fantasy was based on a real hymn tune before, it's a revelation to hear it played with someone singing along like that.

I didn't know about the hymm, which one? I thought it was simply the chromatic lament bass.

I've been playing this fantasia a lot lately (on the piano); at lots of places I'm tempted to hum along. It's indeed very sing-able. Easy to sightread, hard to play well.

Some Vincent Lubeck (!) on a Ladegast organ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUgG8B2gbg
(Although I would say that the registration makes it sound more baroque than the organ is)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 01, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 01, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
I didn't know about the hymm, which one? I thought it was simply the chromatic lament bass.


I just assumed it was a hymn, there's some bloke singing his head off at St Sulpice.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 01, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
I know very little about the mechanisms of couplers, but is it possible to couple the upper octaves of a manual to a different manual, while leaving the lower octaves uncoupled--or vice versa? He only plays the lowest manual here, but the other manuals seem to replicate either upper or lower octave notes... Or does he have the pedals coupled to some manuals as well?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 01, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 01, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
I know very little about the mechanisms of couplers, but is it possible to couple the upper octaves of a manual to a different manual, while leaving the lower octaves uncoupled--or vice versa? He only plays the lowest manual here, but the other manuals seem to replicate either upper or lower octave notes... Or does he have the pedals coupled to some manuals as well?

It looks like the pedal coupler.

I'm guessing that the Hymn was because it was played as part of a service? I would doubt that Sweelinck would compose on a Catholic hymn. Never mind, Sweelinck did write quite a few Catholic motets, and the Christmas tune "Een kindeken is ons geboren"

(Not quite related, but I read somewhere, I think in Glen Wilson's liner notes, that Sweelinck may have been a closeted Catholic like Bull and Byrd.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on August 01, 2017, 05:36:31 PM
Wikipedia says he wrote music for Calvinist, Lutheran and Catholic liturgies.

But I am skeptical that a man who spent over four decades as the musician of an important Calvinist church in Amsterdam was a secret Catholic. Catholics in the Netherlands were not quite as oppressed as those in England (like Bull and Byrd), and unlike their English brethren, would have had more opportunity to physically relocate to Catholic territory. And even if relocation was not an option, wouldn't he have at least found another way to make a living?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 01, 2017, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on August 01, 2017, 05:36:31 PM
Wikipedia says he wrote music for Calvinist, Lutheran and Catholic liturgies.

But I am skeptical that a man who spent over four decades as the musician of an important Calvinist church in Amsterdam was a secret Catholic. Catholics in the Netherlands were not quite as oppressed as those in England (like Bull and Byrd), and unlike their English brethren, would have had more opportunity to physically relocate to Catholic territory. And even if relocation was not an option, wouldn't he have at least found another way to make a living?

He wasn't a church organist, but a city organist.
If it were up to Calvinism, all the organs would have been destroyed during the so-called Beeldenstorm, the outburst of destruction of religious images that occurred in (a.o.) the Netherlands half-way the 16th century. Calvinists called the organ "des Satans fluytenkast" (the flute case of Satan). Thanks to city governments, the organs were saved. Sweelinck wasn't a servant of any church/religion, he was a servant for the city government as well as the city organist of Amsterdam.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 01, 2017, 11:41:48 PM
Quote from: Marc on August 01, 2017, 09:26:02 PM
He wasn't a church organist, but a city organist.
If it were up to Calvinism, all the organs would have been destroyed during the so-called Beeldenstorm, the outburst of destruction of religious images that occurred in (a.o.) the Netherlands half-way the 16th century. Calvinists called the organ "des Satans fluytenkast" (the flute case of Satan). Thanks to city governments, the organs were saved. Sweelinck wasn't a servant of any church/religion, he was a servant for the city government as well as the city organist of Amsterdam.

There's a fun article here about the Calvinists' "War on Organs", illustrated with some colorful quotes.
https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=xbRMAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA112&ots=k5r9tS7A-z&dq=des%20Satans%20fluytenkast&pg=PA107#v=onepage&q=des%20Satans%20fluytenkast&f=false

Calvinists initially saw organs as too Popish to be used in church, some going as far as to see them as a form of idolatry. But when congregational singing was introduced, it was hard to make people learn the Psalter tunes. That's why city councils employed people like Sweelinck to play variations on the Psalms while service was not in session so people could learn the Psalter. (alongside with variations on secular songs just for entertainment - like Est ce Mars, which was a big hit in 1615)
Later, in 1640, Constantijn Huygens published an essay advocating the use of the organ to accompany the singing (as opposed to only playing it before and after the service). Suddenly you get large organs like the ones in the Leiden Pieterskerk (one of my favorite Dutch organs  ;D ), Amsterdam Nieuwekerk, or Alkmaar Laurenskerk that could meet these new demands.

Sietze de Vries playing Sweelinck's P.23 on my favorite little organ, the organ in Uttum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVpBUtXep4

Another fun Sweelinck fact is that in 1604, Sweelinck was sent to Antwerp on a business trip to buy the city a Ruckers harpsichord, probably his only sojourn outside Holland. Someone discovered the lid of this harpsichord, and now it's in the Rijksmuseum! https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/SK-A-4947
But I wonder if the soundboard may have made its way into a still extant large French harpsichord or something?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 22, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
(https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music69/v4/ef/e0/68/efe06844-d926-f4c2-0c2d-cc051f209efd/source/200x0w.jpg)

There's a new Pachebel hexachordum (I'm assuming a re-release, as the style of playing seems rather antiquated?) that's very nice on Spotify. Does anyone have more info on the performer or recording? What organ was used in it? Sounds like a Southern German organ correct for Pachelbel's period, but that's all I can deduce.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 24, 2017, 04:49:12 AM
Does anyone know if people used organs to accompany the ordinary of the mass in renaissance times or before? Has anyone heard a mass sung like this?

We have many performances which use brass instruments to accompany the mass ordinaries, presumably partly on the basis of regional practices. But the organ seems a priori a more likely instrument, especially given that there's evidence that it was used in alternatim in the place of sung propers.  Rebecca Stewart has written about this.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
(http://e-cdn-images.deezer.com/images/cover/65af85ba661e91b9918e77597f271283/200x200-000000-80-0-0.jpg)

This contains a very fine performance of Anthoni van Noordt's Psalm 24 by Peter van der Kooy. I don't know what the organ is, it may even be digital. Can anyone find any details about the series? It comes out of Holland and features Dutch organists, it's from a Dutch producer called JQZ, here's their website, but I can't find any details on it.

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_winkel.php?genre=orgel

Anyway this van Noordt is one among the best I've heard of his music - having said that I can only remember hearing Doeselaar!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 24, 2017, 09:00:37 AM
What's the word on this new issue?  :)

[asin]B072ZL9SP7[/asin]

The first recording of the complete organ works by Valeri. 
Gaetano Valeri (1760-1822) was born in Padua, Italy, bred and raised in the "Keyboard School of the Veneto region". A true "classical" composer he absorbed the style of Haydn and Mozart, while still under the influence of the Galant Style of Galuppi, Alberti and Turini. 
Valeri's organ works contain indications of the use of certain stops, which were specific of the organs built in his time in the Veneto, by for instance the famous organ builder Callido. 
Valeri's organ works form a happy mix of the Classical and Galant, strict forms containing beautiful cantabile melodies and lavish ornamentation. 
Italian organist Paolo Bottini chose two beautiful historic organs from Valeri's time, the full specification of which are included in the booklet, which also contains scholarly written liner notes by the artist.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 27, 2017, 12:11:18 AM
Eyeing this new issue:

(https://www.aeolus-music.com/var/shop_site/storage/images/alle-tontraeger/ae11131-muethel-johann-gottfried-complete-fantasies-choral-preludes/45748-1-eng-GB/AE11131-Muethel-Johann-Gottfried-Complete-Fantasies-Choral-Preludes.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 27, 2017, 10:54:44 PM
(https://www.music-bazaar.com/album-images/vol32/1346/1346160/3216344-big/In-Nomine-Les-Harpies-cover.jpg)

A recording with Freddy Eichelberger at the organ of Saint-Savin-en-Lavedan, a finely built modern reconstruction of a long-gone 16th century organ in its original case -- which means a maximum dose of those flatulent little renaissance reeds! Interesting juxtapositions of dignified Rennaissance polyphonic pieces with rather more vulgar-sounding dances, both nicely executed by Eichelberger and his band.

I think the organ is one of the few modern reconstructions I've heard that actually have a "soul", as in that it has character like old organs do.

Interestingly, a panel on the side of the organ sports a rather graphic painting of a man nonchalantly jerking himself off. I wonder why it's there -- perhaps a male version of Sheela na gig, a cautionary image, or just a bit of 16th century French mischief?

Another performance, an improvisation by Sietze de Vries at the same organ, not shy of bells and whistles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIBHK7McF0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:14:42 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 27, 2017, 10:54:44 PM
(https://www.music-bazaar.com/album-images/vol32/1346/1346160/3216344-big/In-Nomine-Les-Harpies-cover.jpg)

A recording with Freddy Eichelberger at the organ of Saint-Savin-en-Lavedan, a finely built modern reconstruction of a long-gone 16th century organ in its original case -- which means a maximum dose of those flatulent little renaissance reeds! Interesting juxtapositions of dignified Rennaissance polyphonic pieces with rather more vulgar-sounding dances, both nicely executed by Eichelberger and his band.

I think the organ is one of the few modern reconstructions I've heard that actually have a "soul", as in that it has character like old organs do.

Interestingly, a panel on the side of the organ sports a rather graphic painting of a man nonchalantly jerking himself off. I wonder why it's there -- perhaps a male version of Sheela na gig, a cautionary image, or just a bit of 16th century French mischief?



Know it well and I like it, I'm sure I wrote something about it here. There's also this (not recommended)

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uuR2FIWyL.jpg)

In France I've seen those sort of pagan images in churches, i remember drunken scenes in Fréjus cathedral.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 01:24:46 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:14:42 AM
Know it well and I like it, I'm sure I wrote something about it here. There's also this (not recommended)

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uuR2FIWyL.jpg)

In France I've seen those sort of pagan images in churches, i remember drunken scenes in Fréjus cathedral.

I've seen that cover before but not the disc. Is it still available? (never mind; missed your un-recommendation)

I really dig those recordings that have ensembles playing with historical organs. Like this one, which I've listened to the samples of but haven't actually gotten. It's with the 1467/1637 transept organ of St. Jacobi, Lubeck. The sound of the Savin organ very much reminds me of the principals of this organ.
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wow1VIOnL._SS500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 02:39:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 16, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
(http://e-cdn-images.deezer.com/images/cover/65af85ba661e91b9918e77597f271283/200x200-000000-80-0-0.jpg)

This contains a very fine performance of Anthoni van Noordt's Psalm 24 by Peter van der Kooy. I don't know what the organ is, it may even be digital. Can anyone find any details about the series? It comes out of Holland and features Dutch organists, it's from a Dutch producer called JQZ, here's their website, but I can't find any details on it.

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_winkel.php?genre=orgel

Anyway this van Noordt is one among the best I've heard of his music - having said that I can only remember hearing Doeselaar!

It could be a re-issue of this disc:

(https://images2.imgbox.com/38/83/YP3gJ4ZY_o.jpg)

http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/13195588
http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/12591718

Btw: I doubt if organist Peter van der Kooy exists. It's probably a mix-up of 2 familiar names: bass Peter Kooij and organist Jos van der Kooy.

Organist (most likely): Theo Visser.
Organ: De Swart/Van Hagerbeer/Ahrend, Hooglandse Kerk, Leiden, NL.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 02:45:38 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 28, 2017, 02:39:21 AM
It could be a re-issue of this disc:

(https://images2.imgbox.com/38/83/YP3gJ4ZY_o.jpg)

http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/13195588
http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/12591718

Btw: I doubt if organist Peter van der Kooy exists. It's probably a mix-up of 2 familiar names: bass Peter Kooij and organist Jos van der Kooy.

Organist (most likely): Theo Visser.
Organ: De Swart/Van Hagerbeer/Ahrend, Hooglandse Kerk, Leiden, NL.

On Spotify they are identical. The part in question is indeed played by Jos van der Kooy.
I remember listening to this disc ages ago and liking it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 02:58:45 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 02:45:38 AM
On Spotify they are identical. The part in question is indeed played by Jos van der Kooy.
I remember listening to this disc ages ago and liking it.

No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)

(https://images2.imgbox.com/86/62/EBXLPlw9_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 02:59:49 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 28, 2017, 02:58:45 AM
No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)

(https://images2.imgbox.com/86/62/EBXLPlw9_o.jpg)

Very odd. I remember it not having Jos van der Kooy too, but the 2nd half of it was tagged with JvdK on Spotify. Error most likely.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 03:00:14 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 02:59:49 AM
Very odd. I remember it not having Jos van der Kooy too, but the 2nd half of it was tagged with JvdK on Spotify. Error most likely.

I think so, too.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 05:51:36 AM
Very pleasant recital, very pleasant organ, very pleasant music. I mean the Leiden one)

I'm listening to it in London, looking out of the window of my study. It's very cold out, and the sky is clear, blue and sunny. There's a log fire going.  In front of my house is a huge Plane tree which has been occupied by a flock of green parrots, birds which are becoming increasingly common here. The scene: green birds, blue sky, the slight smell of burning wood, seems to fit the music nicely.

John Blow's Double Voluntary is unexpectedly interesting, as is the Tomkins Ground.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 28, 2017, 07:16:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:14:42 AM
There's also this (not recommended)
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uuR2FIWyL.jpg)
I do not know it, but why do you write "not recommended"?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 28, 2017, 07:17:58 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 28, 2017, 02:58:45 AM
No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)

(https://images2.imgbox.com/86/62/EBXLPlw9_o.jpg)

Is this recording available in practice? And where?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 08:10:54 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 28, 2017, 07:16:56 AM
I do not know it, but why do you write "not recommended"?

I think he doesn't like it. ;)

Quote from: (: premont :) on December 28, 2017, 07:17:58 AM
Is this recording available in practice? And where?

This is the jqz/tulip website:

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_cdinfo.php?id=9

And this is a Christian bookshop that sells cd's:

https://www.hertog.nl/artikel/TURE185001/z/

I do not know whether they sell abroad, though.
(Mandryka knows how difficult that can be.)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 08:20:35 AM
Oh, and there's this one, but it's out of stock:

https://www.amazon.com/Hooglandse-Kerk-Leiden-Theo-Visser/dp/B001MVYUAC/?tag=goodmusicguideco
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 08:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 05:51:36 AM
Very pleasant recital, very pleasant organ, very pleasant music. I mean the Leiden one)

[...]

Unfortunately Theo Visser had to retire earlier this year due to the lasting effects of a cerebral infarction.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:32:23 AM
You MUST get the Leiden recording Premont, I've played it twice today. You can download it here in the UK, but if they won't let you do it in Denmark let me know and I'll get it for you.

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/leiden-netherlands-hooglandse-kerk-various-artists/8716758003331

The Jean Pierre Lecot CD seemed heavy to me, there's a lot of singing and I didn't think the  voice was appealing. In the Sweelinck Balletto he does something I've never heard before - at the end he makes the sound of a drum beating the pulse more or less, I don't know if it's his feet, a drummer, or some sort of special stop.

(Having said that, he's very good in the du Caurroy.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
Quote from: Marc on December 28, 2017, 08:26:51 AM
Unfortunately Theo Visser had to retire earlier this year due to the lasting effects of a cerebral infarction.

Thanks for letting me know that, I was wondering why there was no more on record from him.

Carpe Diem I say!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2017, 08:41:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
Thanks for letting me know that, I was wondering why there was no more on record from him.

I think there are dozens (and dozens more ;)) of good organists who do not make any record at all.
Just doing their duty during services, teaching, giving concerts.

Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
Carpe Diem I say!

That's right.
(Sitting on my fat ass and listening to music all day. 8))
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 28, 2017, 10:39:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:32:23 AM
You MUST get the Leiden recording Premont, I've played it twice today. You can download it here in the UK, but if they won't let you do it in Denmark let me know and I'll get it for you.

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/leiden-netherlands-hooglandse-kerk-various-artists/8716758003331

Qobuz has sent me a general notification, that the service is unavailable in Denmark.
So I am unable to use it.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 11:18:01 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 08:32:23 AM
The Jean Pierre Lecot CD seemed heavy to me, there's a lot of singing and I didn't think the  voice was appealing. In the Sweelinck Balletto he does something I've never heard before - at the end he makes the sound of a drum beating the pulse more or less, I don't know if it's his feet, a drummer, or some sort of special stop.

(Having said that, he's very good in the du Caurroy.)

I'm guessing it's the wooden chompers that de Vries uses in the latter part of his improvisation I linked?
I mean these bad guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIBHK7McF0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: Que on December 27, 2017, 12:11:18 AM
Eyeing this new issue:

(https://www.aeolus-music.com/var/shop_site/storage/images/alle-tontraeger/ae11131-muethel-johann-gottfried-complete-fantasies-choral-preludes/45748-1-eng-GB/AE11131-Muethel-Johann-Gottfried-Complete-Fantasies-Choral-Preludes.jpg)

Q

Found the acoustic (?) to make the playing sound a bit gauche. But otherwise it's a mighty fine organ.
source: samples on Soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/aeolus-music/sets/johann-gottfried-muthel-complete-fantasies-choral-preludes
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 03:13:28 PM
(http://www.pieterdirksen.nl/Images/lcouperin.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvhcK2TLTPM
Louis Couperin's organ music has been terra incognita for me (as for most French Baroque organ music), and I hope that this recording remedies that. It's on my ipod so I can familiarize myself with it, and I've already made my first runthrough. Haven't noticed many things though.
For those familiar, anything to look for, or opinions on the recording?
Nice Flemish instrument, lightweight but delivers.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 10:55:07 PM
I don't enjoy that one as much as Beyhurst or Jansen in Louis Couperin I'm afraid. It may be a reflection of the choice of the music that Dirksen makes, the organ seems a bit uncharacterful (how much of it is old? ) and the performances are a bit inexpressive if I remember right. But if you notice anything remarkable about it let me know and I'll happily give it another shot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 11:18:01 AM
I'm guessing it's the wooden chompers that de Vries uses in the latter part of his improvisation I linked?
I mean these bad guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIBHK7McF0

Lol, it's the sort of thing which may come off better in the church where you can see it than on a CD where you can't!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2017, 03:06:09 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 10:55:07 PM
I don't enjoy that one as much as Beyhurst or Jansen in Louis Couperin I'm afraid. It may be a reflection of the choice of the music that Dirksen makes, the organ seems a bit uncharacterful (how much of it is old? ) and the performances are a bit inexpressive if I remember right. But if you notice anything remarkable about it let me know and I'll happily give it another shot.
You're right, I looked up the stoplist and only most of the Hauptwerk is original. And indeed a bit of a generic Frenchy organ sound, although I'll admit that I've heard so little French organ music that most of the organs sound the same (unlike Dutch or Northern Germans, where lots of times I can tell the instrument just by hearing it).
I can't claim to have more insights than you (this is my 2nd run) but I have a gut feeling that Dirksen is playing L. Couperin like it's Sweelinck. I'll compare it with his playing in the Glossa/NM Sweelinck later.
But I don't dislike his playing, it's a good contrast to all the extravagant harpsichord performances a la Skip Sempe.

Now, I can't find anything about Beyhurst or Jansen. (although I do know Jan Jansen - is he the one you mean - through a middling Clavier Ubung and a potentially good Trio sonatas) Which recordings are you referring to?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on December 29, 2017, 03:42:01 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/87c923a7a0bf91c473f6874848df21763d383e1e)

Organ: Saint-Michel-en-Thiérache, France 

I believe it's on Spotify, iTunes, etc....
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2017, 06:03:41 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2017, 03:06:09 AM
You're right, I looked up the stoplist and only most of the Hauptwerk is original. And indeed a bit of a generic Frenchy organ sound, although I'll admit that I've heard so little French organ music that most of the organs sound the same (unlike Dutch or Northern Germans, where lots of times I can tell the instrument just by hearing it).
I can't claim to have more insights than you (this is my 2nd run) but I have a gut feeling that Dirksen is playing L. Couperin like it's Sweelinck. I'll compare it with his playing in the Glossa/NM Sweelinck later.
But I don't dislike his playing, it's a good contrast to all the extravagant harpsichord performances a la Skip Sempe.

Now, I can't find anything about Beyhurst or Jansen. (although I do know Jan Jansen - is he the one you mean - through a middling Clavier Ubung and a potentially good Trio sonatas) Which recordings are you referring to?

(https://www.ledisquaire.com/8599-home_default/louis-couperin-1626-1661-henri-dumont-clairs-obscurs-pieces-dorgue.jpg)    (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LEzFzVxTL._SY355_.jpg)

Both may be hard to find, I don't know, let me know if you want them.

There's a debate about whether this music is by Louis Couperin, Glen wilson thinks it isn't, I once saw something Davitt Moroney wrote where he said that there's more secure  evidence that the organ music is by LC than there is that the harpsichord music is by LC!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 29, 2017, 08:08:19 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2017, 03:06:09 AM
[...]

Now, I can't find anything about Beyhurst or Jansen. (although I do know Jan Jansen - is he the one you mean - through a middling Clavier Ubung and a potentially good Trio sonatas) [...]

Jan Jansen (father of violinist Janine Jansen) is the former organist of the Domkerk, Utrecht, NL.

AFAIK, he's not related to Jan Willem Jansen. The latter was a pupil of a.o. Wim van Beek and Ton Koopman. Since already the 1980s, Jansen has been working in Toulouse. I heard him once at a recital in the Martinikerk of Groningen, NL, playing a Renaissance/Early Baroque programme, and I thought he was very good. I guess his Couperin is worth checking out.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 30, 2017, 08:34:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTsEncFYZAI

Franz Tunder's "In dich hab ich gehoffet, Herr" played by Cor de Jong on the organ of the Leiden Pieterskerk. Brisk, but breathtaking playing, love how he starts with the chorale, amazing contrast between the ruckpositiv plenum and the vox humana. Reminds me of Wolfram Syre's Tunder (which I've grown to love).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2017, 10:07:36 PM
Thanks for that. What a noisy organ! i think that's a brilliant, rapid, virtuosic and incisive performance. I love the way he makes the transitions so natural - I especially love the way he makes Tunder's music leap out of the hymn at the start!

I just discovered this Buxtehude/Hasse/Tunder CD on a Stellwagen organ. I'll listen to it properly later today.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G9wAAOSwq19XCuR~/s-l500.jpg)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on December 31, 2017, 12:52:27 AM
And now for something completely different...

(https://images2.imgbox.com/17/59/29UJLXtp_o.jpg)

Organ works of Puccini (sonatas, marches, waltzes), played by Liuwe Tamminga.

Been listening this morning, and it's good fun!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 31, 2017, 05:36:13 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2017, 10:07:36 PM
Thanks for that. What a noisy organ! i think that's a brilliant, rapid, virtuosic and incisive performance. I love the way he makes the transitions so natural - I especially love the way he makes Tunder's music leap out of the hymn at the start!

I just discovered this Buxtehude/Hasse/Tunder CD on a Stellwagen organ. I'll listen to it properly later today.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G9wAAOSwq19XCuR~/s-l500.jpg)

It seems like old tracker organs in general are very clickety-clackety. I heard a concert on this organ last summer played by Erwin Wiersinga and was very impressed.
Another fleet-footed Sweelinck Poolse dans on the organ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNUeFvRv6E
His playing's very Koopmanesque, in a way. I'd like to know what Koopman playing Tunder would sound like.

Have you seen Tomita Kazuki's videos of him playing on the Stellwagen organ? I think they're the finest playing on the Stellwagen organ I know, excluding possibly Jeremy Joseph's or Sietze de Vries' recordings that I haven't heard. (Harald Vogel's Buxtehude on it doesn't do anything for me, surprisingly, although I haven't really seriously listened to it) Also very well recorded; I think it's a very hard organ to record and was surprised how differently the real thing sounded from recordings when I heard it also last summer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bpoSRdCCuw

By the way, how do you think of Kraft's Totentanzorgel recordings on SS? I think they're remarkable, all the mysticism without the kitschy (incorrect expression?) neo-baroque registrations that he uses on later recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquidl.. the finest playing on the Stellwagen organ I know, excluding possibly Jeremy Joseph's or Sietze de Vries' recordings that I haven't heard.

Would you mind to provide a link (or two) ?

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
By the way, how do you think of Kraft's Totentanzorgel recordings on SS? I think they're remarkable, all the mysticism without the kitschy (incorrect expression?) neo-baroque registrations that he uses on later recordings.

What is SS?

And which recordings do you consider later? The ones he made on the great new Kemper main organ around 1970?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 02:03:08 AM
Concerning the Stellwagen organ Sct Jacobi Lübeck these recordings are worth considering:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Die-Orgeln-in-St-Jakobi-L%FCbeck/hnum/7341353

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelwerke-St-Jakobi-Lübeck-Armin-Schoof/dp/B000028BTS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1514804333&sr=1-2&keywords=armin+schoof


And also Walcha's Bach recordings (Archiv 1947) even if they were made before the restoring of the organ by the Hillebrand brothers in 1978.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 02:13:33 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2017, 10:07:36 PM

I just discovered this Buxtehude/Hasse/Tunder CD on a Stellwagen organ. I'll listen to it properly later today.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G9wAAOSwq19XCuR~/s-l500.jpg)

I think Armin Schoof is a very fine organist, but the problem with recitals of this kind is, that the programming is a misk-mask of everything.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2018, 06:51:37 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 01, 2018, 02:13:33 AM
I think Armin Schoof is a very fine organist, but the problem with recitals of this kind is, that the programming is a misk-mask of everything.

mish-mash! in French it's micmac and I guess in Danish it's misk-mask -- it just seems surprising that so many languages have this bizarre turn of phrase/

I'm sure the squid will reply in due course but SS is a rather civilised place which I think you might enjoy

http://symphonyshare.blogspot.co.uk/

(I just did a terrible thing on a French forum where I confused la viole (viola da gamba) with le viol (rape)  :-[ )
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 07:23:04 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 01, 2018, 01:33:02 AM
Would you mind to provide a link (or two) ?

Jeremy Joseph: https://www.amazon.com/Deborah-Florian-Boesch-Ensemble-Delirio/dp/B01NADTV1Y
de Vries: https://www.jsbrecords.nl/product/lubeck/

Is that the Pieter Jan Belder I think it is? I wasn't aware that he played recorder.

Quote from: (: premont :) on January 01, 2018, 01:33:02 AM
And which recordings do you consider later? The ones he made on the great new Kemper main organ around 1970?

I was referring to recordings Walter Kraft did on the original Totentanzorgel in 1941 before the church was bombed out. They're mighty hard to find, Lubeck's city library issued a CD with them over 18 years ago that's obviously no longer available, so PM me (or join Symphonyshare!) if you want them. I think they're quite sensational, even without all the historical significance. The later recordings are the still available Vox Buxtehude set, which is admittedly also not bad.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on January 01, 2018, 09:03:22 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 07:23:04 AM
Jeremy Joseph: https://www.amazon.com/Deborah-Florian-Boesch-Ensemble-Delirio/dp/B01NADTV1Y
de Vries: https://www.jsbrecords.nl/product/lubeck/

Is that the Pieter Jan Belder I think it is? I wasn't aware that he played recorder.

News for me as wel, but so it seems....  :)

http://www.ibizweb.nl/belder/belder_en.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: Que on January 01, 2018, 09:03:22 AM
News for me as wel, but so it seems....  :)

http://www.ibizweb.nl/belder/belder_en.htm

Q

He has made a number of recordings on recorder, among others the Brandenburg concertos II and IV and this;

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7956535--the-art-of-the-recorder
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 09:21:02 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 07:23:04 AM
Jeremy Joseph: https://www.amazon.com/Deborah-Florian-Boesch-Ensemble-Delirio/dp/B01NADTV1Y
de Vries: https://www.jsbrecords.nl/product/lubeck/

Thanks.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
I was referring to recordings Walter Kraft did on the original Totentanzorgel in 1941 before the church was bombed out. They're mighty hard to find, Lubeck's city library issued a CD with them over 18 years ago that's obviously no longer available, so PM me (or join Symphonyshare!) if you want them. I think they're quite sensational, even without all the historical significance. The later recordings are the still available Vox Buxtehude set, which is admittedly also not bad.

I did not know, that there were recordings of the original Totentanz organ in existence, Of course the Buxtehude set (1958) is later in relation to these, but he continued recording until around 1973.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2018, 09:37:47 AM
Here's the BWV 1004 chaconne played on the Groningen Schnitger!

https://www.youtube.com/v/aEArrg7Jp-Y
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on January 01, 2018, 09:47:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 01, 2018, 09:37:47 AM
Here's the BWV 1004 chaconne played on the Groningen Schnitger!

https://www.youtube.com/v/aEArrg7Jp-Y

I like the comment "NO CLARITY, NO DEFINATION, ORGAN NOT THE RIGHT PERIOD FOR THIS MUSIC, IT SOUNDS MUDDY AND MURKY."
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
Quote from: Marc on January 01, 2018, 09:47:36 AM
I like the comment "NO CLARITY, NO DEFINATION, ORGAN NOT THE RIGHT PERIOD FOR THIS MUSIC, IT SOUNDS MUDDY AND MURKY."

BUT THE ORGAN WAS BUILT IN 1692 HOW IS IT NOT THE RIGHT PERIOD FOR THIS MUSIC, LOVELY MUSIC LOTS OF FORCE, LOTS OF GRAVINTAS  :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 31, 2017, 05:36:13 PM

By the way, how do you think of Kraft's Totentanzorgel recordings on SS? I think they're remarkable, all the mysticism without the kitschy (incorrect expression?) neo-baroque registrations that he uses on later recordings.

I just listened to the two Bux pieces, I haven't heard the Bruhns yet, for the first time, I thought that the toccata, Buxwv 155, was fabulous, made my jaw drop.

the later recording of Buxwv 155 takes less time, and I think and isn't in the zone like the earlier recording, he's not in an alpha-state, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on January 01, 2018, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
BUT THE ORGAN WAS BUILT IN 1692 HOW IS IT NOT THE RIGHT PERIOD FOR THIS MUSIC, LOVELY MUSIC LOTS OF FORCE, LOTS OF GRAVINTAS  :)

That's why I like the comment. ;)

About the organ though, more specific: the organ was built around 1450, rebuilt around 1480, expanded in 1542, 1564 and around 1630.
In 1692 Arp Schnitger did a 'grande baroque' rebuilt and added the 32 ft pedal towers.
Further expansion in 1728 (Franz Caspar Schnitger) and in 1740 (Albertus Anthoni Hinsz).

Rebuilt and 'ruined' in the 19th century and in the first half of the 20th century.
Almost destroyed, but, thanks to Cor Edskes, restored and rebuilt back to the '1740 state' by Jürgen Ahrend during the period 1977-1984.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 01, 2018, 09:37:47 AM
Here's the BWV 1004 chaconne played on the Groningen Schnitger!

https://www.youtube.com/v/aEArrg7Jp-Y

Well, Kollmannsperger plays exellent, buiilding this difficult piece up in a splendid way, I am however not that enthusiastic about the arrangement, which in many of the sections sounds rather un-Bachian.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 01, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 31, 2017, 05:36:13 PM
By the way, how do you think of Kraft's Totentanzorgel recordings on SS? I think they're remarkable, all the mysticism without the kitschy (incorrect expression?) neo-baroque registrations that he uses on later recordings.

Now I have listened to the Bruhns and the two Buxtehude pieces. I think Kraft not unexpectedly plays as a young man. I find his later style (Buxtehude 1958) more mature, considered and balanced even if his registrations was a tad too "full". Never-the-less highly interesting to hear how he played in his younger days, where he already was a pioneer as to North German Baroque music.

Concerning the organ I would never have spotted it, had I not known. It sounds not that Baroque to me, This may be due to recording technique with lack of higher partials, and that the organ probably wasn't in its original Baroque state (maybe "verschlimmbessert" in the 19th century), and it sounds conspicuously as if it is equally tuned. I have tried to find specific information about this old organ, but have not been successful so far. Paradoxically the reconstructed Totentanz organ Karl Kemper made after the war - based upon a description of the old organ, sounds more archaic and authentic Baroque to me, and it is also tuned in some modified meantone. Alas this Kemper organ was later dismantled and replaced by a horrible Führer organ totally without style.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 08:56:55 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 01, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
Now I have listened to the Bruhns and the two Buxtehude pieces. I think Kraft not unexpectedly plays as a young man. I find his later style (Buxtehude 1958) more mature, considered and balanced even if his registrations was a tad too "full". Never-the-less highly interesting to hear how he played in his younger days, where he already was a pioneer as to North German Baroque music.

Concerning the organ I would never have spotted it, had I not known. It sounds not that Baroque to me, This may be due to recording technique with lack of higher partials, and that the organ probably wasn't in its original Baroque state (maybe "verschlimmbessert" in the 19th century), and it sounds conspicuously as if it is equally tuned. I have tried to find specific information about this old organ, but have not been successful so far. Paradoxically the reconstructed Totentanz organ Karl Kemper made after the war - based upon a description of the old organ, sounds more archaic and authentic Baroque to me, and it is also tuned in some modified meantone. Alas this Kemper organ was later dismantled and replaced by a horrible Führer organ totally without style.

Built by Johannes Stephani in the 1477, Ruckpositiv added by Jacob Scherer in 1558, Brustwerk and new reeds added by Henning Kroger in 1622, rebuilt by Stellwagen in 1655 (that's the state Buxtehude played it in), altered slightly but not too radically (as in re-tuning, a few stops taken out of use) in the 19th century (I guess all the money was spent on the new grand organ), restored by Kemper in 1937.

A good stoplist here: https://books.google.com/books?id=qSXGOoambNcC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA81#v=onepage&q&f=false

For the sound...
I don't think we could say that the organ is in Romantic state, and if anything it would have sounded shriller than the typical transitional Rennaissance/Baroque organ due to Orgelbewegung tastes.

The "Sister" Stellwagen in the Jacobikirche also doesn't sound as shrill as organs built by Schnitger et al., I think they were aiming for a milder, more vocal sound (not to mention the fact that the Hauptwerk there is all Gothic up to the mixtures!).

But honestly the recording is poor, so we can't tell much at all. It does sound equally tuned (I think organs were restored equally tuned up until the Ahrends) and tuned at A~490 like its sister in the Jacobikirche.

But I do hear some very juicy reeds in there! (the Krummhorn by Kroger?)

I agree with the "young man" comment by the way, I was surprised by the speed at which Kraft took the Bruhns!

Meanwhile, I do think the Walcha recordings in St. Jacobi are interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEQVlGzusWQ
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 02, 2018, 05:41:00 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 01, 2018, 08:56:55 PM
Built by Johannes Stephani in the 1477, Ruckpositiv added by Jacob Scherer in 1558, Brustwerk and new reeds added by Henning Kroger in 1622, rebuilt by Stellwagen in 1655 (that's the state Buxtehude played it in), altered slightly but not too radically (as in re-tuning, a few stops taken out of use) in the 19th century (I guess all the money was spent on the new grand organ), restored by Kemper in 1937.

A good stoplist here: https://books.google.com/books?id=qSXGOoambNcC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA81#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks for this, which also reminds me of the Snyder biography, which I since long have intended to acquire.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
For the sound...
I don't think we could say that the organ is in Romantic state, and if anything it would have sounded shriller than the typical transitional Rennaissance/Baroque organ due to Orgelbewegung tastes.

No I did not mean romantic state, but that it maybe had been repaired with no particular style in mind.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
But honestly the recording is poor, so we can't tell much at all. It does sound equally tuned (I think organs were restored equally tuned up until the Ahrends) and tuned at A~490 like its sister in the Jacobikirche.

There are many examples of unequally tuned more or less optimally restored organs before Jürgen Ahrend,

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
But I do hear some very juicy reeds in there! (the Krummhorn by Kroger?)

Yes, in the middle of the Toccata. I think he plays this section on the Rp using the Trichterregal 8'. I have heard him play this piece in Vor Frelsers Kirke, Copenhagen, and he obviously used the Rp Krumhorn 8', even if the Bv has a suitable regal 8'.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 02, 2018, 01:29:00 PM
(http://direct.rhapsody.com/imageserver/images/Alb.157297306/500x500.jpg)

Finally a good recording for these composers that I've stayed away because of a lack of sympathetic recordings? Played on a very early 16th century swallow-nest organ in Lorris-in-Gâtinais.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2018, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 02, 2018, 01:29:00 PM
(http://direct.rhapsody.com/imageserver/images/Alb.157297306/500x500.jpg)

Finally a good recording for these composers that I've stayed away because of a lack of sympathetic recordings? Played on a very early 16th century swallow-nest organ in Lorris-in-Gâtinais.

Yes, I know it and like it very much, that was the recording that prompted me to explore Kerckhoven and Cornet. This whole period of Spanish Netherlands is interesting and I'd like to know much more about the music it inspired. By coincidence I've just finished reading a fabulous novel about it, called L'Oeuvre au Noir by Marguerite Yourcenar.

Colcomb did an excellent CD of Spanish organ music too.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 28, 2017, 01:24:46 AM

I really dig those recordings that have ensembles playing with historical organs. [/img]

I just thought of this comment while listening to Martin Gester's Steigleder CD - it's very good I think, both performance and music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 05, 2018, 06:46:16 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 05, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
I just thought of this comment while listening to Martin Gester's Steigleder CD - it's very good I think, both performance and music.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of Martin Gester. It seems like he has quite a lot of CDs with him playing along an ensemble with grand organ. I just listened to his Bach and was quite impressed.

Edit: organ playing is a bit too brisk for me
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2018, 09:00:38 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on January 05, 2018, 06:46:16 PM


Edit: organ playing is a bit too brisk for me

In the steigleder I thought you'd think he was too slow! Re his Bach on organ, the one I like most is the violin sonatas with Alice Pierot, but the are quite fast.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 06, 2018, 10:53:39 PM
After a lot of serious organ listening the last two years, I am at a bit of a loss as to where to go now...I have greatly enjoyed the French set (22 CD) from Marie-Claire Alain, the Radio Netherlands set of the complete Sweelinck, the complete Buxtehude (Harald Vogel), along with various single disks (CD and LP) of Tunder, Cornet, Mendelssohn, etc. I will likely pick up the complete Marcel DuPre Mercury recordings soon (anathema around here I guess, but I still like him). I am not sure whether it is time for another Bach set yet... Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 06, 2018, 11:07:08 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 06, 2018, 10:53:39 PM
After a lot of serious organ listening the last two years, I am at a bit of a loss as to where to go now...I have greatly enjoyed the French set (22 CD) from Marie-Claire Alain, the Radio Netherlands set of the complete Sweelinck, the complete Buxtehude (Harald Vogel), along with various single disks (CD and LP) of Tunder, Cornet, Mendelssohn, etc. I will likely pick up the complete Marcel DuPre Mercury recordings soon (anathema around here I guess, but I still like him). I am not sure whether it is time for another Bach set yet... Any suggestions?

Just thinking of earlier music, What you've heard is a bit oriented towards the north, and mainland Europe. You didn't like Frescobaldi so we'll forget Italy. My suggestion is that you listen to some music from Spain and England. Maybe Ken Gilbert's The Golden Age of English Organ Music (if you search you'll see I explain somewhere how to get it) and Odile Bailleux Arauxo. Also some Pachelbel - try Rübsam on Naxos.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 06, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
Just had an idea for you, get Andrea Marcon's Domenico Scarlatti CD

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61dE1oE1kSL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Jo498 on January 07, 2018, 12:12:38 AM
Reger. I hardly know his organ music but in Germany he is considered #2 after Bach.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 12:44:34 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 01, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Well, Kollmannsperger plays exellent, buiilding this difficult piece up in a splendid way, I am however not that enthusiastic about the arrangement, which in many of the sections sounds rather un-Bachian.

Yes, I agree with this.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 07, 2018, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 06, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
Just had an idea for you, get Andrea Marcon's Domenico Scarlatti CD

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61dE1oE1kSL._SX425_.jpg)

Thanks for the suggestions. Despite not liking the Tactus (Vartolo, Lorregiain) Frescobaldi set, I would not rule out further explorations in Italian organ music. The Scarlatti CD looks good. I am not a big fan of the sound of the Spanish organs, tilted as they are to the brass stops. Much of the Spanish music for organ I have heard seemed a bit on the bombastic side. Still, I admit is a small sample, so maybe there are some gems I've missed.

Reger, yes, I have a few CDs and am going to get the complete Naxos set one of these days. His music really takes effort to enjoy, but the effort generally does pay off, in my experience.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: kishnevi on January 07, 2018, 06:06:31 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 07, 2018, 05:31:13 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. Despite not liking the Tactus (Vartolo, Lorregiain) Frescobaldi set, I would not rule out further explorations in Italian organ music. The Scarlatti CD looks good. I am not a big fan of the sound of the Spanish organs, tilted as they are to the brass stops. Much of the Spanish music for organ I have heard seemed a bit on the bombastic side. Still, I admit is a small sample, so maybe there are some gems I've missed.

Reger, yes, I have a few CDs and am going to get the complete Naxos set one of these days. His music really takes effort to enjoy, but the effort generally does pay off, in my experience.

Re
Reger
I have the Naxos set and the Haas set on MDG. I prefer the latter, but not by much. Try listening to samples of both before you buy.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 08, 2018, 10:41:29 AM
Bach's Passacaglia played by Serge Schoonbroodt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KBefZtaHoQ

The art installation reminds me of when I visited Amsterdam last year, since the Niewe kerk had several strange exhibitions going on at the same time, and the Oude Kerk had its floor covered in golden sheets!

But I like it a lot, the "plenum approach" on a romantic organ. Does anyone know of other performances like this?

Although at the end, I think because of the recording you can't hear the manual playing very well.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 08, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 06, 2018, 10:53:39 PM
After a lot of serious organ listening the last two years, I am at a bit of a loss as to where to go now... Any suggestions?

You might try a leapfrog into the twentieth century. I really enjoy Messiaen's organ music. I have the old Weir set below, long OOP but reissued piecemeal on Priory, although Priory's reissues don't seem be in print, either (but check BRO!).

I don't own any other organ discs of Messiaen so I can't compare but there's plenty on YouTube. That's where I got to know Weir.



[asin]B000026D3W[/asin]


Weir also recorded some Messiaen for Decca. I'm assuming this predated the Collins Classics sessions:



[asin]B00HT88XMS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 09, 2018, 12:43:29 PM
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/3pvgr.scms9/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1133-35-2.jpg)

IVe been listening to Hans Davidsson's new recording of Bohm's  Ach wie nichtig. He takes his time, and there's lots of space in the music (can't explain it better), there's often a "chamber music" feel I'd say. His gestures, phrases, are very incisive. Beautifully recorded, organ sounds great, registrations are more complementary and harmonious than contrasting. He goes deep into the music - what I mean is the inner voices are very lively and contribute a lot to the effect. He makes Bohm sound like no-one else, not like early Bach, he's found a Bohm-voice.

It certainly held my attention, it's different,  and I'm looking forward to getting to know the set.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on January 09, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Sounds good!  :)

The set was already on the wishlist.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Baron Scarpia on January 09, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 08, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
You might try a leapfrog into the twentieth century. I really enjoy Messiaen's organ music. I have the old Weir set below, long OOP but reissued piecemeal on Priory, although Priory's reissues don't seem be in print, either (but check BRO!).

I don't own any other organ discs of Messiaen so I can't compare but there's plenty on YouTube. That's where I got to know Weir.



[asin]B000026D3W[/asin]

At $6 I couldn't resist that (even though I already have Messiaen's organ music in the DG set).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 09, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on January 09, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
At $6 I couldn't resist that (even though I already have Messiaen's organ music in the DG set).

I haven't heard Latry on DG (although I may try and YouTube him) but I'm enamored with Weir. So, good catch, I'd say.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Baron Scarpia on January 09, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 09, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
I haven't heard Latry on DG (although I may try and YouTube him) but I'm enamored with Weir. So, good catch, I'd say.

I have to confess I also have Bate.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on January 09, 2018, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on January 09, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
I have to confess I also have Bate.

I've listened to Bate on YouTube. Apparently she had Messiaen's seal of approval for her renditions. But I'd wager she's not alone in that.

I found her playing very worthwhile, and will probably someday pick up her set. What's most attractive about Bate is she and Weir are polar opposites, at least based on my YouTube listening. Bate's organ is bathed in reverb, with a huge range, sounding like it would rattle the roof off its hinges.

In contrast, Weir's organ has a sharper response, with a certain nimbleness to it: the complete opposite of Bate. The two would make perfect contrasting sets.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 09, 2018, 08:55:28 PM
Quote from: Que on January 09, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Sounds good!  :)

The set was already on the wishlist.

Q

Yes it's very stimulating, full of ideas. A slow, staggering approach in which musical lines are deconstructed  >:D
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on January 10, 2018, 10:55:19 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2018, 08:55:28 PM
Yes it's very stimulating, full of ideas. A slow, staggering approach in which musical lines are deconstructed  >:D

Well, that's not how I remember Hans Davidsson's style....  0:)

And it's not like any amount of restraint in tempo or any application of staggering as a phrasing technique (on the contrary) would amount to a post-modern "deconstructed" approach....  ;) IMMO of course.... I'm not an expert.

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 11, 2018, 02:34:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2018, 08:55:28 PM
Yes it's very stimulating, full of ideas. A slow, staggering approach in which musical lines are deconstructed  >:D

Now I get curious. Fortunately the set is in my listening-to pile.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 11, 2018, 08:32:25 AM
Quote from: Que on January 10, 2018, 10:55:19 PM
Well, that's not how I remember Hans Davidsson's style....  0:)




You may be right
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2018, 07:58:34 AM
(https://pxhst.co/avaxhome/f1/95/004995f1.jpg)

CPO's second installment of their complete Pachelbel contains something I've never come across before, some "psalmlieder" played by James David Christie, they're a sort of fantasy based on a psalm I suppose   -- am I wrong to think that no one else has recorded this music? Anyway here they are, and one of them at least is interesting enough (psalm 124 for example, a big set of variations on psalm 130 too, which I bet could be made very attractive.)  I can't find anything on the organ online either, and for some reason I can't download the booklet to see if there is a mention of them.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 21, 2018, 09:24:41 PM
Was just listening to some Purcell anthems today and realized I have virtually no English organ music.  :o  Spanish organ music has always put me off a bit because much of what I've heard seems a bit bombastic and I'm not a huge fan of the brass stops. Anyway, are there any good sets of English or Spanish organ music to be recommended to the curious listener (who loves the 22 CD French set with Marie-Claire Alain)?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 22, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
Well I mentioned Kenneth Gilbert's recording at Lanvellec to you before. In addition you may want to try to hear Christopher Stembridge's CD called Wondrous Machine. Another one to explore is Ton Koopman's recording from Addington Hall, and Colin Tilney at Knoll. For Blow specifically, I like Timothy Robert's CD. Leonhardt recorded quite a lot of Purcell and Blow - later in his career there's some Blow at the Dom Bedos in Bordeaux and earlier there's a whole CD dedicated to these two composers. A more old fashioned style, but nevertheless one I find very rewarding, is Thurston Dart's recording of English organ music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 22, 2018, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2018, 07:58:34 AM
(https://pxhst.co/avaxhome/f1/95/004995f1.jpg)

CPO's second installment of their complete Pachelbel contains something I've never come across before, some "psalmlieder" played by James David Christie, they're a sort of fantasy based on a psalm I suppose   -- am I wrong to think that no one else has recorded this music? Anyway here they are, and one of them at least is interesting enough (psalm 124 for example, a big set of variations on psalm 130 too, which I bet could be made very attractive.)  I can't find anything on the organ online either, and for some reason I can't download the booklet to see if there is a mention of them.

In the index of the booklet the different arrangements of Lutheranian chorales are grouped according to the words of the Psalmes , e.g. Psalm 103: Nun lob, mein Seel, den Herren or Psalm 137: An Wasserflüssen Babylon. In this way the words of the Lutheranian hymn refer to the respective Psalm in the Bible (Old Testament), the former being a paraphrase of the latter.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 23, 2018, 09:12:41 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 22, 2018, 01:15:48 PM
In the index of the booklet the different arrangements of Lutheranian chorales are grouped according to the words of the Psalmes , e.g. Psalm 103: Nun lob, mein Seel, den Herren or Psalm 137: An Wasserflüssen Babylon. In this way the words of the Lutheranian hymn refer to the respective Psalm in the Bible (Old Testament), the former being a paraphrase of the latter.

The organ sound is a bit lightweight in some of those psalmlieder  - this maybe be Christie's approach, or it may be a consequence of the organ. I think a bit more depth and power would have sounded good  in Psalm 124 / 3 for example. The music reminds me a bit of Scheidt - "Da Jesu an dem Kreuze stund" for example.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 03, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
I've just found out that Michel Chapuis died in November last year. I have just one recording by him which I cherish, with music by Dumage and Clerambault, and I like his Boyvin too. I vaguely recall there was someone who posted here saying how much they loved his Bach, I can't remember who. I did recently listen to some of his Leipzig Chorales and remember thinking how secular it seemed, and that in itself makes it an interesting reflection of the spirit of his times in Paris maybe. This is, after all, the 50th anniversary year of May '68!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 03, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
I've just found out that Michel Chapuis died in November last year. I have just one recording by him which I cherish, with music by Dumage and Clerambault, and I like his Boyvin too. I vaguely recall there was someone who posted here saying how much they loved his Bach, I can't remember who. I did recently listen to some of his Leipzig Chorales and remember thinking how secular it seemed, and that in itself makes it an interesting reflection of the spirit of his times in Paris maybe. This is, after all, the 50th anniversary year of May '68!

The Chapuis fan, you think of, is James.

IMO Chapuis' Du Mage/Clerambault CD is the best recording he ever made, far surpassing his Grigny, F. Couperin, L. Couperin, Bach and Buxtehude. I have not heard his Boyvin though.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 03, 2018, 12:01:45 PM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/376ec9ac16883c6cb43f820f6b095aaf4e4781c7)

Well I put on his Leipzig Chorales, and around BWV 657 the thing warms up, I feel as I'm listening to Bach through the lense of Django Reinhardt and the Hot Club de France.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 06, 2018, 11:17:02 PM
Frescobaldi Elevation Toccata played fast on a 18th century Portugese organ with a full plenum! It goes against everything I know (not much) about historical practice, but I like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6UozTUQfVI
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on February 15, 2018, 05:34:51 PM
I had a hankling to listen to Franck's organ music this afternoon. I thought what I wanted was one of the chorales, but it happened to be the Pièce Héroïque, not a usual choice. I listened to 5 interpretations: Germani, Guillou, Murray, Dupré, and Torvald Torén. Not surprisingly to me, the Torén swept the field.

For those of you unfamiliar with the Torén set, it was recorded in 1978 and released on the Lyricon label. It has long been my favourite recording of Franck's works. The performances range from amazing to ultimately satisfying. The recording of the organ in the 2 churches in Stockholm are in the demonstration class with true weight in the pedals, which is uncommon even in the digital age--- a bonus for those of us with full range speaker systems.

While Bach is still my alpha and omega for organ music, I urge those of you fancy Franck and have a turntable to give these recordings a try if you can source them.

There are also later recordings of Torén's Franck that are available to download (http://torvaldtoren.bluemusicgroup.com/), but I have not heard them though I plan to.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 21, 2018, 01:11:11 PM
Are there any recordings with substantial amounts of organ music by Matthew Locke? I have Terence Charlston's CD, and I like it, and I also have Kenneth Gilbert's English music CD, which has a couple of excellent pieces. France orgue lists a couple of interesting looking things, but they seem to have disappeared. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 21, 2018, 05:06:01 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 21, 2018, 01:11:11 PM
Are there any recordings with substantial amounts of organ music by Matthew Locke? I have Terence Charlston's CD, and I like it, and I also have Kenneth Gilbert's English music CD, which has a couple of excellent pieces. France orgue lists a couple of interesting looking things, but they seem to have disappeared.

I do not think he left other organ music than the seven voluntarys from Melothesia (and the two pieces from manuscript sources). Charlston's CD contains them all, but some of them (only a few pr. CD) are contained in the CDs below. OBS that Leonhardt recorded three of the voluntarys.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8035082--organ-music-robert-woolley

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8027741--the-excellent-art-of-voluntary-early-english-organ-music

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purcell-Anthems-Hymns-Locke-Voluntaries/dp/B00Y24FPYQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519264535&sr=8-1&keywords=locke+leonhardt

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7988735--the-elusive-english-organ
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 21, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 21, 2018, 05:06:01 PM
I do not think he left other organ music than the seven voluntarys from Melothesia (and the two pieces from manuscript sources). Charlston's CD contains them all, but some of them (only a few pr. CD) are contained in the CDs below. OBS that Leonhardt recorded three of the voluntarys.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8035082--organ-music-robert-woolley

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8027741--the-excellent-art-of-voluntary-early-english-organ-music

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purcell-Anthems-Hymns-Locke-Voluntaries/dp/B00Y24FPYQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519264535&sr=8-1&keywords=locke+leonhardt

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7988735--the-elusive-english-organ

Thank you, I'd forgotten about Leonhardt.

I played the Pavans and Galiards on Charlston's Byrd CD last night, I like it, I especially like the sound of his harpsichord, the supple rhythms, the way he doesn't pound the pulse out.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2018, 11:01:33 PM
(http://www.grooves-inc.com/images/cover/618/195/f7sh5xjr.j32)

An astonishing recording by Bruno Forst here, relaunced by Brilliant. Clemencic has shown that this sort of matierial can make fascinating  music to listen to.

According to this review of the first edition of the recording, Bruno Forst's notes are good. Does anyone know of Brilliant have issued them in translation?

Quote from: http://www.clicmusique.com/arte-tanger-nouvelle-methode-clavier-gonzalo-baena-frost-p-100350.html?language=enEn 1540 parut le premier livre espagnol consacré à la musique pour instruments à clavier. L'auteur, Gonzalo de Baena, un castillan au service du roi du Portugal, obtint en 1536 un privilège royal qui lui permit d'éditer son ouvrage quatre ans plus tard. Il semble que son œuvre n'ait connu qu'une diffusion très limitée, voire inexistante, l'exemplaire subsistant étant peut-être le seul jamais imprimé. Acquis au début du XIXème siècle par la Bibliothèque du Palacio Real à Madrid, l'ouvrage connut un sort tragi-comique : lors de son inscription dans le registre d'entrée, l'employé distrait ou amoureux, au lieu du titre « Arte novamente inventada para aprender a TANGER « (Méthode nouvellement inventée pour apprendre à toucher - les instruments à clavier -), inscrivit « Arte de TEJER » (Méthode pour tisser) !!! L'ouvrage, classé hors de sa catégorie, disparut jusqu'en...1992, redécouvert par l'organiste passionné de musique ibérique Bruno Forst. Outre une partie théorique, où Baena expose sa méthode (en fait, la mise en tablature de la musique pour orgue, censée permettre même à des non-initiés de pouvoir jouer sans autres connaissances préalables...), sont présentées 45 pièces qui illustrent son propos et constituent la plus grande part du livre. Les œuvres choisies sont essentiellement des transcriptions d'œuvres vocales certainement appréciées par l'auteur, qui révèle ainsi un goût nettement passéiste, la majorité des compositeurs choisis vivant une, deux, voire trois générations plus tôt (tel Ockeghem, né en 1410). Seules les pièces dues à l'auteur lui-même, et à son fils Antonio (vers 1500, après 1562), présentent une musique contemporaine de la publication de l'ouvrage. Il est à noter que l'écrasante majorité de ces compositeurs sont des franco-flamands, reflétant le goût de Charles Quint puis de son fils et successeur Philippe II. Les pièces, disposées dans un but didactique par difficulté croissante, vont de simples duos à une polyphonie complexe à quatre voix. Bruno Forst utilise pour ces deux CDs deux instruments différents, un petit orgue baroque de 1658, situé dans l'église de Brea de Aragon (province de Saragosse), et un instrument de dimensions similaires construit en 2007, mais selon la tradition de l'école de facture d'orgue madrilène du XVIIème siècle, dans l'église San José de Navalcarnero (Province de Madrid). Ces instruments au son clair et précis font entièrement justice à ces pièces méditatives, parfois colorées par les jeux d'anches, grâce à l'exécution nerveuse et précise du jeune organiste. Un régal raffiné pour aficionados. (Jean-Michel Babin-Goasdoué)

This word tisser (weave I think, though I'm not well up in this sort of vocabulary, maybe it's spin ) is amusing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 14, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
Falcioni's recording is not bad, but it is plastic and faceless. Any good recording on Georg Muffat??
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 14, 2018, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 14, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
Falcioni's recording is not bad, but it is plastic and faceless. Any good recording on Georg Muffat??

Confirms by own impressions.

This one is awesome - both sonically as in interpretation:

[asin]B000BDGBZY[/asin]

Also included in this box set, which offers 4 more great recordings for the same price...

[asin]B0788YKWCF[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 15, 2018, 02:38:36 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 14, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
Falcioni's recording is not bad, but it is plastic and faceless. Any good recording on Georg Muffat??

There are not many available recordings of Apparatus Musico-organisticus at the moment. I also find, that Kelemen's recording is the most attractive of these.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 15, 2018, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 03, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
The Chapuis fan, you think of, is James.

IMO Chapuis' Du Mage/Clerambault CD is the best recording he ever made, far surpassing his Grigny, F. Couperin, L. Couperin, Bach and Buxtehude. I have not heard his Boyvin though.
What are you guys' opinion on his recordibg of Lubeck if you have heard? Thank you
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 15, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
Thanks a lot. I ordered the box set.
Quote from: Que on March 14, 2018, 10:49:10 PM
Confirms by own impressions.

This one is awesome - both sonically as in interpretation:

[asin]B000BDGBZY[/asin]

Also included in this box set, which offers 4 more great recordings for the same price...

[asin]B0788YKWCF[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 15, 2018, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 15, 2018, 06:08:24 PM
What are you guys' opinion on his recordibg of Lubeck if you have heard? Thank you

1969 was the time when recreational drugs started to become popular in Paris and this is Lubeck on speed. It was recorded at the same time as his Bach and I think it incarnes the same aesthetic ideas - fresh and vigorous, with very little grandeur or emotional sensitivity.

The Klapmeyer organ was an interesting choice and I wonder if the booklet essay, which are often excellent for Astrée, discusses it.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 15, 2018, 11:11:55 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6138G98RHWL._SS500_.jpg)

I'll just take the opportunity to mention Friedhelm Flamme's Lubeck, which I find very rewarding. He gives us a Lubeck whose music is like a bold exploration of symphonic organ colours. Flamme lets the music take all the time it needs to express a vision of enormous poetry, there's grandeur and emotional sensitivity in spades. The Treutmann organ may or may not be ideal (just as some people (not me!) also have reservations about Chapuis' organ) - but the Treutmann sounds wonderful and is totally complementary to Flamme's profound vision.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 16, 2018, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 15, 2018, 10:43:06 PM
1969 was the time when recreational drugs started to become popular in Paris and this is Lubeck on speed. It was recorded at the same time as his Bach and I think it incarnes the same aesthetic ideas - fresh and vigorous, with very little grandeur or emotional sensitivity.

The Klapmeyer organ was an interesting choice and I wonder if the booklet essay, which are often excellent for Astrée, discusses it.

Yes, I agree very much with this. Other than that I find his approach pretentious and ostentatious - maybe the works had not yet matured in his mind, he was about 40 years old. What bothers me the most however, is the strange and often tasteless registrations (reeds with tremulant or too little 8') he uses, when the music asks for a normal plenum. I think he might have made a much more memorable integral, if he had got the chance some 25 years later.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 16, 2018, 11:29:53 AM
Funny and insightful comment. Thanks a lot.  I will stick with Coudurier and Flamme.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2018, 08:48:47 AM
The description corresponds to what I think about Jean-Yves Thibaudet, a French pianist.
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 16, 2018, 09:22:28 AM
Yes, I agree very much with this. Other than that I find his approach pretentious and ostentatious - maybe the works had not yet matured in his mind, he was about 40 years old. What bothers me the most however, is the strange and often tasteless registrations (reeds with tremulant or too little 8') he uses, when the music asks for a normal plenum. I think he might have made a much more memorable integral, if he had got the chance some 25 years later.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on March 17, 2018, 09:06:56 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 16, 2018, 11:29:53 AM
Funny and insightful comment. Thanks a lot.  I will stick with Coudurier and Flamme.

My favourite:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5125a9ybymL._SY500_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: ahinton on March 17, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Date for the diary...

The term "organ spectacular" has undoubtedly been so widely used as to have become something of a cliché, but it's certainly one that would fit the event taking place on 20 May 2018 in the Great Hall of Hamburg's prestigious Elbphilharmonie, commencing at 18.00, in which the three-movement Organ Symphony No. 2 by Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji will be performed by Kevin Bowyer, the only organist ever to have played it. Completed some 86 years ago, its première did not take place until 2010 and it has received two further performances since; it's one of the most challenging works in the organ repertoire. There will be intervals of c.30 minutes between the first and second movements and c.50 minutes between the middle movement and the finale. The performance is likely to end between 03.45 and 04.00 the following morning. The Theme and Variations middle movement plays for around 4 hours and the fugue that closes the finale alone occupies some 2 hours.

When I say "a date for the diary", that will only be for anyone who's able to get returns, as the 2,000+ seat venue has already been sold out for this concert for almost four months!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 17, 2018, 09:56:14 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 14, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
Falcioni's recording is not bad, but it is plastic and faceless. Any good recording on Georg Muffat??

Saorgin uses a nice old French organ (Malaucène) and  I think the music sounds good. There's a feeling of improvised virtuosity in his recording, as you'd expect from someone who has specialised in Stylus Fantasticus.

Having said that, I agree with the opinion that there's a lot to enjoy in Kelemen's CD.

Has anyone heard Tobias Lindner'a Muffat CD?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2018, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 17, 2018, 09:56:14 AM
Saorgin uses a nice old French organ (Malaucène) and  I think the music sounds good. There's a feeling of improvised virtuosity in his recording, as you'd expect from someone who has specialised in Stylus Fantasticus.

Having said that, I agree with the opinion that there's a lot to enjoy in Kelemen's CD.

Has anyone heard Tobias Lindner'a Muffat CD?
Thanks a lot. I will look for the Saorgin recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2018, 11:10:05 AM
Quote from: Que on March 17, 2018, 09:06:56 AM
My favourite:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5125a9ybymL._SY500_.jpg)

Q
Thanks to the members' recommendation months ago, I listen Berben on Spotify, probably it is my fav now.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2018, 11:56:27 AM
When I was looking for Kelemen's Muffat, I saw these. The north German box set includes Lubeck and Bruhns. Probably I will buy it unless you senior members oppose it. Have any of you checked his Bach set? Any opinion?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 17, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 17, 2018, 11:56:27 AM
When I was looking for Kelemen's Muffat, I saw these. The north German box set includes Lubeck and Bruhns. Probably I will buy it unless you senior members oppose it. Have any of you checked his Bach set? Any opinion?

Kelemen's North German box is excellent.

His Bach CD arrived to me yesterday, I expect to listen to it in the nearest future.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 17, 2018, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 17, 2018, 08:48:47 AM
The description corresponds to what I think about Jean-Yves Thibaudet, a French pianist.

I do not think these traits are reserved for Frenchmen.  :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 17, 2018, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 17, 2018, 09:56:14 AM
Has anyone heard Tobias Lindner'a Muffat CD?

It is in my "awaiting listening" pile.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 17, 2018, 10:33:37 PM
Very good idea to issue north and south German box sets, separately. Hate to sound ignorant, but is the north-south musical difference largely tied to Protestant-Catholic division? Were these North compositions played in Protestant churches, and the south compositions in Catholic churches?   
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 17, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Kelemen's North German box is excellent.

His Bach CD arrived to me yesterday, I expect to listen to it in the nearest future.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 18, 2018, 02:15:58 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 17, 2018, 10:33:37 PM
Very good idea to issue north and south German box sets, separately. Hate to sound ignorant, but is the north-south musical difference largely tied to Protestant-Catholic division? Were these North compositions played in Protestant churches, and the south compositions in Catholic churches?

In fact, I've only ever seen work linking theological ideas and musical style in the case of Bach, maybe the work still needs to be done for some other composers.

Snyder argues that the biggest shaping force on Buxtehude was the nature of the organs he played -- and of course the music that he had heard. The extent to which Frescobaldi's music was known about may have been a bigger influence on organ music style that anything coming from church teaching.

I know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but from my position of ignorance Bach seems uniquely theological/philosophical -- as if his music is sometimes a text in sound, an  articulation of his beliefs. I think this is one of his main areas of genius.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 18, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rd3EuwhJL._SY355_.jpg)

Matthew Owens, Frobenius Edinburgh, Pachelbel, really nice playing, sober and intense and poetic, and a very attractive organ too. It does not sound like equal tuning to me, but I can't be totally sure. Either the selection of pieces, or Owen's performances, or my mood, has me convinced that Pachelbel was a very great writer of organ music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 18, 2018, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 18, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
Matthew Owens, Frobenius Edinburgh, Pachelbel, really nice playing, sober and intense and poetic, and a very attractive organ too. It does not sound like equal tuning to me, but I can't be totally sure. Either the selection of pieces, or Owen's performances, or my mood, has me convinced that Pachelbel was a very great writer of organ music.

The organ is equally tuned. Information here:

http://www.canongatekirk.org.uk/organ/

I acquired Owens' Pachelbel vol.1 (on another organ). Found him a bit earthbound and matter of fact (like so many Pachelbel interpreters - Payne, Christie e.g.). Pachelbel's music is obviously difficult to play in an engaged way, and I have not considered vol.2., but now I wonder if I should download it from Presto.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 18, 2018, 11:15:32 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on March 17, 2018, 10:33:37 PM
Very good idea to issue north and south German box sets, separately. Hate to sound ignorant, but is the north-south musical difference largely tied to Protestant-Catholic division? Were these North compositions played in Protestant churches, and the south compositions in Catholic churches?

Both North German and South German organ composers wrote music for use at services at their respective churches. Concerning the style I think the most influential factor was local composing traditions, more than how the music was used.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 18, 2018, 12:08:05 PM
I ordered 'something completely different' today:

(https://images2.imgbox.com/05/e8/p2CpgWnh_o.jpg)

It's got Stanford, and Kitson, and Wood, and... Widor... and... Bach. ;)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Maestro267 on March 19, 2018, 07:34:57 AM
I picked up a disc the other day that included two organ works by Ligeti: Volumina and Harmonies.

Insane! That is all.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 19, 2018, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: Marc on March 18, 2018, 12:08:05 PM
I ordered 'something completely different' today:

(https://images2.imgbox.com/05/e8/p2CpgWnh_o.jpg)

It's got Stanford, and Kitson, and Wood, and... Widor... and... Bach. ;)

One more BWV 565  played with at least some dexterity   :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 19, 2018, 08:32:30 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 18, 2018, 11:10:31 AM
The organ is equally tuned. Information here:

http://www.canongatekirk.org.uk/organ/

I acquired Owens' Pachelbel vol.1 (on another organ). Found him a bit earthbound and matter of fact (like so many Pachelbel interpreters - Payne, Christie e.g.). Pachelbel's music is obviously difficult to play in an engaged way, and I have not considered vol.2., but now I wonder if I should download it from Presto.

Let me listen to v 1 first. I'll post my impressions here.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 19, 2018, 11:16:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/Tm8lMfr1NIs

It's nice to see the bellows working in this restrained and dignified performance of Lady Carey's Dompe Kimberly Marshall.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 09, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyhZaSso414

I think this has been mentioned on here before, but I have really been enjoying watching this one, although I'm sure some cringe at hearing Sweelinck's music played on a Cavaillé-Coll instrument. I cannot find this one on my Radio Netherlands 10 CD set (Van Doeselaar, Dirksen, et al., purple cover), and am confused about the numbering system/catalog for Sweelinck's works.

(In any case, looks as if Daniel Roth would have been a great teacher. I would love to take lessons from someone like him)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 09, 2018, 09:01:22 PM
Sweelinck numbering is mysterious.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 24, 2018, 05:04:22 AM
(https://dutchbaroquerecords.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Cover-Van-Noordt.jpg)

I just want to alert people that the two Anthoni van Noordt CDs in this set seem fabulous to me: organ, music, voices, sound engineering - all fabulous. The distributors are friendly, anglophone, responsive. The packaging is all in Dutch.

The third CD is mostly music by various van Noordts, one or two pieces by Anthoni but mostly others, and I haven't had a chance to hear it yet properly.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on April 24, 2018, 09:49:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 24, 2018, 05:04:22 AM
(https://dutchbaroquerecords.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Cover-Van-Noordt.jpg)

I just want to alert people that the two Anthoni van Noordt CDs in this set seem fabulous to me: organ, music, voices, sound engineering - all fabulous. The distributors are friendly, anglophone, responsive. The packaging is all in Dutch.

The third CD is mostly music by various van Noordts, one or two pieces by Anthoni but mostly others, and I haven't had a chance to hear it yet properly.

Good to hear!  :)

That everything is in Dutch, I mean...  ;) 

:D

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
(https://www.organroxx.com/theme_organroxx/static/artwork/4c1072f6-e4ad-11e7-ac22-52540026e203.jpg)
Just heard this on the radio (https://www.organroxx.com) My goodness, this is beautiful! Anyone know where I can find this CD?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Alek Hidell on May 05, 2018, 07:19:05 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
Just heard this on the radio (https://www.organroxx.com) My goodness, this is beautiful! Anyone know where I can find this CD?

You might start here: http://www.orgelnieuws.nl/recensie-de-vrolijke-zwanenzang-van-jan-jansen/ (http://www.orgelnieuws.nl/recensie-de-vrolijke-zwanenzang-van-jan-jansen/)

I don't read Dutch, but I let my browser translate the page and it looks like there's a link to order the CD.

Found out something while looking this up. Jan Jansen is the father of violinist Janine Jansen.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 07, 2018, 02:09:23 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/WAONCD-250.jpg)

Perfectly unconventional and beautiful :)
Who would have guessed, Pachelbel, Scheidt, Bruna, Frescobaldi along with some Buxtehude and Bach on a reed organ!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 07, 2018, 05:12:30 PM
As always, great intel. Jansen as well. I will check both the discs. Weird, Toyama is very country. Thanks a lot.
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid link=topic=5263.msg1147909both #msg1147909 date=1525730963
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/WAONCD-250.jpg)

Perfectly unconventional and beautiful :)
Who would have guessed, Pachelbel, Scheidt, Bruna, Frescobaldi along with some Buxtehude and Bach on a reed organ!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 08, 2018, 02:38:33 AM
Quote from: Alek Hidell on May 05, 2018, 07:19:05 PM
[...]
Found out something while looking this up. Jan Jansen is the father of violinist Janine Jansen.

Yep, and there are more musicians in this family. (A.o. her uncle Peter Kooij.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janine_Jansen

Here are Jan & Janine in Bach's BWV 1017 (partly):

https://dewerelddraaitdoor.bnnvara.nl/media/301811

(Apologies for getting a bit off-topic.)

Jan Jansen was organist of the Utrecht Domkerk; his successor is Jan Hage.

These links could be useful:
http://www.domkerk.nl/nl/muziek/cds-en-publicaties/cds
http://www.domkerk.nl/contact-us
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 08, 2018, 03:13:21 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 07, 2018, 02:09:23 PM
Perfectly unconventional and beautiful :)
Who would have guessed, Pachelbel, Scheidt, Bruna, Frescobaldi along with some Buxtehude and Bach on a reed organ!

In my country this instrument is called a psalm bike. I do not think I would stand the sound of it that long, even if Yoko Matsubara plays in an exemplary manner.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on May 08, 2018, 07:23:57 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 08, 2018, 03:13:21 AM
In my country this instrument is called a psalm bike. I do not think I would stand the sound of it that long, even if Yoko Matsubara plays in an exemplary manner.

In my country it's called a harmonium.
In earlier days, probably the most popular calvinist/protestant home instrument. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 08, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
Makes me think of this sort of thing

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/coronationstreet/images/9/91/Mission_service.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150507183013)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 16, 2018, 06:13:17 AM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/376/MI0004376960.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

One of the high points for me of Foccroulle's Frescobaldi CD was the music for organ and cornet, this CD, which is really enjoyable, is more of the same sort of thing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 16, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 16, 2018, 06:13:17 AM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/376/MI0004376960.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

One of the high points for me of Foccroulle's Frescobaldi CD was the music for organ and cornet, this CD, which is really enjoyable, is more of the same sort of thing.
Very good, any information on the organ used in the disc?
How did you think of Foccroulle's Frescobaldi CD, other than the cornetti music?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 16, 2018, 01:53:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Paxp2weMy8

A beautiful portrait of a courtly 16th century organ in Innsbruck played by Reinhard Jaud
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 16, 2018, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 16, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Very good, any information on the organ used in the disc?

I don't. There's an interview with Foccroulle about it here, but if haven't had time to listen to it. It starts at about 1h11m. Foccroulle  talks about two organs, though it's not clear to me if he uses both on the disc, Rome Sta-Barbara, and somewhere called something like  Mombris or Nombrille further south, it's hard for me to make it out exactly.   The commentator says that the booklet for the recording is well researched.

https://www.francemusique.fr/emissions/musique-matin/bernard-foccroulle-et-lambert-colson-nous-conduisent-sur-les-traces-de-la-musique-pour-cornet-rome-entre-1500-et-1700-38150


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 22, 2018, 10:07:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfAtSK9EQ2c

This is a surprisingly good Tunder Christ lag in Todesbanden played on a 1966 Austin organ. Not stellar or magical, but I think it does take a lot to make Tunder work on a typical American organ.
(Sorry for the "inauthentic" spree I'm going on!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 24, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
https://youtube.com/v/hRmK1kW8948

Frederic Munoz has uploaded some interesting material on YouTube, for example this satisfying performance of the Big Reincken fantasy on a modern organ (1987) - but inspired by early organs and  I think it has a characterful timbre. There's a lot of Odile Baillot there to explore, including some interviews. She's very good.

And in a different vein,  this is a rather enjoyable concert of music at Montelimar, another organ from the 1980s, with Fredric Munoz and friend. At about 6,30 there's some chant alternating with organ, French, it works well. I can't identify it, Boyvin maybe. The whole concert is full of fun unidentifiable music in fact, it must have been a super event to have been at.

https://youtube.com/v/L0QisjbxRxo
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 26, 2018, 08:55:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxaJMSAZfcM

Just found out that Piet Kee died yesterday...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 08, 2018, 11:02:39 PM
(http://www.cddiffusion.fr/catalogue/images/6641.jpg)


I've been playing this for a few days and I'm not sure what to make of it. The organ is characterful, but somehow it sounds like I'm in one room and the organ's playing in another. It's also the sort of dusky french character which I'm not used to hearing in Muffat. The interpretations are on the slow side, and I have the impression that it's more a matter of some fabulous moments than of coherent and integrated pieces -- but that's often the case with toccatas. I also have the impression that this is the sort of recording which will grow on you, rather than knock you out on first listening, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway worth having for me given the paucity of interesting recordings of these pieces.

Here's the organ specification -- what sort of temperament is that?

(https://preview.ibb.co/bHwZCo/Pallaud1.jpg)

The CD is unobtainable if you don't know how to get it, amazon and Fnac didn't work.  As far as I can see the only way is to order it is from here


http://www.cddiffusion.fr/catalogue/fiche.php?SID=fTrbqiGd&tc=2&CID=6641


They take a card, they are very quick to send out the order, they are good to deal with.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 16, 2018, 01:02:36 PM
Here's something that sounds nice by a composer I know nothing about, Samuel Marckfelner

https://youtube.com/v/Lvw_TalxJSs
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on June 17, 2018, 05:42:50 PM
Many pages ago, a writer asked whether a sub-woofer were necessary for the playback of organ music, and another answered no, to which the first replied that that saved him a lot of coin.

Having read these pages on organ music at least twice, I note that many, if not most, of you are concert goers (I'm envious of all the instruments you have had the opportunity to hear and the scope of you musical knowledge of the organ repertoire). That being the case, those lovely, deep tones from the open Cs up from 16' pipes must be missed when playing CDs on most speaker systems. Granted, the majority of the music is within the capabilities of those speakers, but the authority of deep pedals is glorious, and I would not willingly be without them and am fortunate to have subs able to produce lows to the E below.

I hope this doesn't sound peevish. It is merely a preference I am willing to afford for the sake of my pleasure.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 17, 2018, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: Elk on June 17, 2018, 05:42:50 PM
Many pages ago, a writer asked whether a sub-woofer were necessary for the playback of organ music, and another answered no, to which the first replied that that saved him a lot of coin.

Having read these pages on organ music at least twice, I note that many, if not most, of you are concert goers (I'm envious of all the instruments you have had the opportunity to hear and the scope of you musical knowledge of the organ repertoire). That being the case, those lovely, deep tones from the open Cs up from 16' pipes must be missed when playing CDs on most speaker systems. Granted, the majority of the music is within the capabilities of those speakers, but the authority of deep pedals is glorious, and I would not willingly be without them and am fortunate to have subs able to produce lows to the E below.

I hope this doesn't sound peevish. It is merely a preference I am willing to afford for the sake of my pleasure.

I'd be curious, elk, if your subwoofer makes the sound of the Leipzig Chorales on this recording acceptable, I find it painful on my ESLs and Gradients. I'm not sure if I just have a duff disc, or whether it's a badly engineered recording or what. Generally I can enjoy recordings on the Groningen Schnitger, it's maybe that Nordstoga is unusually fond of the 32' stop.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JgkAAOSwmwtaJUkX/s-l300.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 17, 2018, 09:27:57 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 26, 2018, 08:55:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxaJMSAZfcM

Just found out that Piet Kee died yesterday...

Yes. I saw the announcement in the newspapers.
Never heard him life, but his recordings are very worthwhile. He was also a knowledgeable scholar (Bach/Buxtehude) and a well-known composer in NL (though less than his father Cor Kee).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 17, 2018, 09:34:23 PM
Quote from: Elk on June 17, 2018, 05:42:50 PM
Many pages ago, a writer asked whether a sub-woofer were necessary for the playback of organ music, and another answered no, to which the first replied that that saved him a lot of coin.

Having read these pages on organ music at least twice, I note that many, if not most, of you are concert goers (I'm envious of all the instruments you have had the opportunity to hear and the scope of you musical knowledge of the organ repertoire). That being the case, those lovely, deep tones from the open Cs up from 16' pipes must be missed when playing CDs on most speaker systems. Granted, the majority of the music is within the capabilities of those speakers, but the authority of deep pedals is glorious, and I would not willingly be without them and am fortunate to have subs able to produce lows to the E below.

I hope this doesn't sound peevish. It is merely a preference I am willing to afford for the sake of my pleasure.

Why should it sound peevish?
It's great to enjoy music the way you prefer it.

Personally, I have thought of buying one, but since I live in a rather noisy flat appartment I've decided to spare my neighbours the E below. ;)
In general: I'm able to accept lesser circumstances when listening to music. It makes the live concerts even more festive and enjoyable. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on June 18, 2018, 05:47:24 AM
Mandryka, thanks for the tip, mention of this recording that is. It is fantastic. Rarely, do recordings of organ music do justice to the low bass. The low pedals here are what drew me to organ music in the first place and what I experience in churches here in London, Ontario, Canada. Admittedly, the low bass may be a bit fat on this recording, but nothing judicious use of tone controls might alleviate. One might use this recording to search for a suitable sub though a dealer might not appreciate the deficiencies it reveals.

Playing back organ music is difficult for most speakers. A simple 2 way system, while sounding awesome on most program material, may be asked to reproduce C1 (double pedal C) at the same time as G4 (G above middle C). The great woofer movement in reproducing the C1 muddies the G4, or the woofer might just flap around rather uncontrollably--- not a very pleasant experience. It is called Frequency Modulation. The benefits of a sub, or subs, are not only extending the bass response of the system, but also reducing FM distortion.

I have been looking for a finer version of the Leipzig Chorales to go along with the Kibbie and Rogg Zurich recordings I have, and this might be it.

Marc, I am lucky to live in a house with a largish recreation room at distance from the living room in which I can play music rather louder than my wife fancies and can generate low frequencies. Ain't life grand?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 18, 2018, 06:08:38 AM
Quote from: Elk on June 18, 2018, 05:47:24 AM
Mandryka, thanks for the tip, mention of this recording that is. It is fantastic. Rarely, do recordings of organ music do justice to the low bass. The low pedals here are what drew me to organ music in the first place and what I experience in churches here in London, Ontario, Canada. Admittedly, the low bass may be a bit fat on this recording, but nothing judicious use of tone controls might alleviate. One might use this recording to search for a suitable sub though a dealer might not appreciate the deficiencies it reveals.

Playing back organ music is difficult for most speakers. A simple 2 way system, while sounding awesome on most program material, may be asked to reproduce C1 (double pedal C) at the same time as G4 (G above middle C). The great woofer movement in reproducing the C1 muddies the G4, or the woofer might just flap around rather uncontrollably--- not a very pleasant experience. It is called Frequency Modulation. The benefits of a sub, or subs, are not only extending the bass response of the system, but also reducing FM distortion.

I have been looking for a finer version of the Leipzig Chorales to go along with the Kibbie and Rogg Zurich recordings I have, and this might be it.

Marc, I am lucky to live in a house with a largish recreation room at distance from the living room in which I can play music rather louder than my wife fancies and can generate low frequencies. Ain't life grand?

Outside of the complete sets (Alain, Foccroulle, Weinberger, Kooimann, Koopman)  I think the Leipzig Chorales to get is this one, the more I listen to it the more I love it.

(https://www.boeijengamusic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/650x650/c02b730cab454942d65375f640b056d1/v/c/vc2500.jpg)

https://www.boeijengamusic.com/nl/j-s-bach-leipziger-choraele.html

Tone controls for Nordstega is a good idea and I shall play around with mine soon.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on June 21, 2018, 08:21:11 AM
Thanks for the tip, though for twice the amount for that set, I might more likely get a complete works like Alain2 or the Foccroulle. What I've heard of the Beekman on youtube pleases me. Alain3 not so much. I've also sampled the Weinberger. Maybe I'm not attuned to HIP performances. I'm tempted by the Kooiman, but find it hard to ante up.

You recommended Zacher's Mendelssohn/ Brahms. I've only sampled the Mendelssohn, but the Brahms betters the other 4 recordings I have of the Chorales. The Mendelssohn sounds good too, but it is competing with Hurford's incomplete CD, which is magnificent. Hurford is often maligned. I'm puzzled because his performances are enjoyable and usually the recorded sound is in the demonstration class. There do seem to be some heliocentric views here, but maybe, they are simply more informed than mine.

Speaking of being maligned and heliocentricity, performances which usually elicit a big yawn from me are those of Michael Murray. However, one, Bach recording he made on a Gabriel Kney organ in St, Paul, Minnesota, bears repeated listening. It is a very well recorded recital on a favourite organ of mine, built here in London, Ontario.

More on Romantic music and beyond on a future post.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 28, 2018, 06:03:38 AM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/45/18/3850126071845_600.jpg)

Interesting recording here I think from Ljerka Ocic. The organ is big and heavy, and she tries to fit the Hexachordum Apollinis on it. She varies touch and ornamentation imaginatively. I don't know whether I like it, but I do know it's interesting.

Well recorded, too well, big thundering bass, this is not a chamber organ so it doesn't easily fit in the living room.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 28, 2018, 10:15:02 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2018, 06:03:38 AM
Interesting recording here I think from Ljerka Ocic. The organ is big and heavy, and she tries to fit the Hexachordum Apollinis on it. She varies touch and ornamentation imaginatively. I don't know whether I like it, but I do know it's interesting.

Well recorded, too well, big thundering bass, this is not a chamber organ so it doesn't easily fit in the living room.


Thanks. Ordered. BTW I can't see any information about which organ, she uses.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 28, 2018, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 28, 2018, 10:15:02 AM

Thanks. Ordered. BTW I can't see any information about which organ, she uses.

Nor could I, but hopefully it'll be in your booklet. She's recorded a lot of music, I briefly dipped into this most unusual recording for example



(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/00/94/3850126049400_600.jpg)

I did find this, and used Google translate to understand it

https://shop.crorec.hr/crorec.hr/vijest.php?OBJECT_ID=830100

QuoteLjerka Očić also celebrated a significant anniversary, 25 years of discographic creation. Branko Magdić, music editor and critic, spoke about the "Sounds of Croatian Historical Organ" and the art work of Ljerka Očić. The value of the notes on the new cycle Ljerka Očić is emphasized, not only because of the artistic value, but also by the fact that the sound of these organs, which are part of Croatian cultural heritage, has been recorded for the first time.

Ljerka Ocic says of these valuable instruments: "My wish was to best present their personality with the music that was born and lived in the times when they were built." The presentation also shows the video of Ljerk's sister Dubravka, who with his picture and text depicted the cross section of our celebrated organist career.

The latest CD "Southern German Organ Baroque" from the edition of the Sounds of Croatian Historical Organ can be purchased online at shop.crorec.hr . . .

Quote"This cycle of sound carriers is conceived as a small chronicle of the Croatian organist tradition, a testimony to the needs of the inhabitants of this country for music that throughout history has lived and spread to the sacred spaces of exceptional beauty, this cycle is designed as a" hommage "to regional features, workshops, their differences, and at the same time subtle virtues, which, with their individual aesthetics, obscure the atmosphere of old times, while simultaneously sound vibration links past the present, "wrote Ljerka Očić.

It is a continuation of the cycle of the CD "Sounds of Croatian Historical Organs" by Ljerka Ocic with the collaboration of Lidija Horvat Dunjko on the album "Johann Sebastian Bach - Book of Annan Magdalen Bach (1725) - Choice".
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 29, 2018, 07:08:20 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sxOQNcF7L._SX355_.jpg)

What looks like another fabulous recording from the great Ljerka Očić, in fact I've only heard G Bohm's nichtig/fluchtig, but I can already tell that it's a completely rethought through performance, and seems to capture that elusive combination of dance and prayer and song. Where Očić is so good is in the variety of attack, which makes the music sound always so fresh. The rest of the CD has music by Cabezon, Byrd, Scheidemann and other usual suspects. Characterful organs in Croatia, I guess all of them old. Well recorded to boot.

There's more by her - a recording of a lot of Frescobaldi, for example.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 09, 2018, 02:50:59 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2018, 06:03:38 AM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/45/18/3850126071845_600.jpg)

Interesting recording here I think from Ljerka Ocic. The organ is big and heavy, and she tries to fit the Hexachordum Apollinis on it. She varies touch and ornamentation imaginatively. I don't know whether I like it, but I do know it's interesting.

Well recorded, too well, big thundering bass, this is not a chamber organ so it doesn't easily fit in the living room.


Additional information about the organ used:

Antonius Weiner 1737 (Fransiscus church of Bv Mary's assumption, Samobor). A relatively small 8' organ with 16 ranks on two manuals and pedal. Most of the pipes seem to be original. Restored by Heferer Company 2005. Tuned a=440,7 and Kirnberger III modified.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 09, 2018, 09:57:45 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2018, 02:50:59 AM

Additional information about the organ used:

Antonius Weiner 1737 (Fransiscus church of Bv Mary's assumption, Samobor). A relatively small 8' organ with 16 ranks on two manuals and pedal. Most of the pipes seem to be original. Restored by Heferer Company 2005. Tuned a=440,7 and Kirnberger III modified.

Thanks, I like that and the Renaissance and Baroque one even more, probably because it isn't as heavy! the latter with music by Byrd and Frescobaldi and Böhm. I shall have to sample her Sweelinck recording soon.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: king ubu on July 10, 2018, 12:35:40 AM
posted this in the upcoming concerts thread, but I guess I'd rather get a reply or two over here:

I'm planning to catch some of the more casual organ concerts run in summer at Grossmünster, right around the corner from my (still fairly new) workplace ... whom should I consider, other than Molardi?

https://www.grossmuenster.ch/documents/142/Orgelprogr-2018Web.pdf

Kay Johansen doing Reubke I should not miss, I guess?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 10, 2018, 09:44:18 AM
(http://www.fagott-online.com/shop/contents/media/39059.jpg)

Alexander Koschel is an organ scholar who records for Fagott and who seems to have made a special study of the Weissenfels Schlosskapelle organ, which to me sounds wonderful. The recording features music by old friends like Scheidt and Pachelbel and Bach, but mostly music by composers I know very little about like J.R. Ahle, J.F. Alberti, G.C. Wecker, J.Ph. Krieger, Ch.G. Witte, J. Kuhnau, J.H. Buttstett, F.W. Zachow, A. Armsdorf, N. Vetter, G.F. Kaufmann. I shall certainly be exploring more of Koschel recordings, I get the feeling there's a lot of buried treasure there.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 10, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 10, 2018, 09:44:18 AM
(http://www.fagott-online.com/shop/contents/media/39059.jpg)

Alexander Koschel is an organ scholar who records for Fagott and who seems to have made a special study of the Weissenfels Schlosskapelle organ, which to me sounds wonderful. The recording features music by old friends like Scheidt and Pachelbel and Bach, but mostly music by composers I know very little about like J.R. Ahle, J.F. Alberti, G.C. Wecker, J.Ph. Krieger, Ch.G. Witte, J. Kuhnau, J.H. Buttstett, F.W. Zachow, A. Armsdorf, N. Vetter, G.F. Kaufmann. I shall certainly be exploring more of Koschel recordings, I get the feeling there's a lot of buried treasure there.

He also recorded vol. four of the Fagot Scheidt series.

By chance I put his new recording and its compagnion :

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8461504--j-s-bach-middle-german-organ-music-of-the-16th-18th-centuries-vol-2

on my wishlist two days ago.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 10, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
Another one on my wishlist is this one with Nordstoga on the organ of St. Johannis, Lüneburg:

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8459934--j-s-bach-toccatas-preludes-and-fugues
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 08, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
How do we make of this Tunder? Played on the Lubeck Jakobi organ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gymz1l7q_-4
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 09, 2018, 04:23:51 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 08, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
How do we make of this Tunder? Played on the Lubeck Jakobi organ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gymz1l7q_-4


Video unavailable, at least to me. Who is playing?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on August 10, 2018, 03:10:58 AM
Johannes Unger. The link worked for me. Nice playing of music I've never heard.

Mandryka, did adjusting the volume level on your subs solve the bass problem on the Nordstoga Leipzig Chorales?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 10, 2018, 03:37:56 AM
Quote from: Elk on August 10, 2018, 03:10:58 AM
Johannes Unger. The link worked for me. Nice playing of music I've never heard.

Mandryka, did adjusting the volume level on your subs solve the bass problem on the Nordstoga Leipzig Chorales?


He (Johannes Unger) is the present organist in Marienkirche, Lübeck.

Strange, that the link doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 04:00:00 AM
Quote from: Elk on August 10, 2018, 03:10:58 AM


Mandryka, did adjusting the volume level on your subs solve the bass problem on the Nordstoga Leipzig Chorales?

Not totally satisfactorily.

I've heard four other recordings on the Waltershausen Trost - Bonegas (Leipzig Chorales), Sluys (Bohm), Messori (parts of CU3) and Kay Johanssen (Neumeister Chorales). They are all much better sounding than Weinberger playing the Leipzig Chorales. I can't say if the problem is my system, my ears, the record engineering or Weinberger's performance. For all I know, the Weinberger recording may be more truthful.

I have just ordered a "new" amp which his come recommended for driving subs. Apparently you need a lot of power (surprisingly for me) and this very powerful studio amp is highly regarded for its bass. I put new in inverted commas because it is very much in my style of "classic" equipment - this

(https://www.prosoundweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OpenCrownDC300Image.jpg)

A Crown/Amcron DC300a

If it arrives (and the vendor is showing some unusual behaviour, so I'm not 100% confident it will arrive) then I'll let you know if things change for the Weinberger.

Mutatis mutandis for Nordstoga's Leipzig Chorales.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 10, 2018, 04:28:53 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 04:00:00 AM

I've heard four other recordings on the Waltershausen Trost - Bonegas (Leipzig Chorales), Sluys (Bohm), Messori (parts of CU3) and Kay Johanssen (Neumeister Chorales). They are all much better sounding than Weinberger playing the Leipzig Chorales. I can't say if the problem is my system, my ears, the record engineering or Weinberger's performance. For all I know, the Weinberger recording may be more truthful.


Truthfulness is a relative concept in the recording of organs, because the sound may change considerably if one changes the listening/recording position in the church. For that reason the Weinberger may be as truthful as the others you mention. You have to be in the church and listen from different positions to judge.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 10, 2018, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 10, 2018, 04:28:53 AM

Truthfulness is a relative concept in the recording of organs, because the sound may change considerably if one changes the listening/recording position in the church. For that reason the Weinberger may be as truthful as the others you mention. You have to be in the church and listen from different positions to judge.

Is there any (near) agreement as to where the best place in the church is? I suspect a center-rear position, and that the performer's location is not a good location for auditing. Just guessing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 10, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 04:00:00 AM
Not totally satisfactorily.

I've heard four other recordings on the Waltershausen Trost - Bonegas (Leipzig Chorales), Sluys (Bohm), Messori (parts of CU3) and Kay Johanssen (Neumeister Chorales). They are all much better sounding than Weinberger playing the Leipzig Chorales. I can't say if the problem is my system, my ears, the record engineering or Weinberger's performance. For all I know, the Weinberger recording may be more truthful.

I have just ordered a "new" amp which his come recommended for driving subs. Apparently you need a lot of power (surprisingly for me) and this very powerful studio amp is highly regarded for its bass. I put new in inverted commas because it is very much in my style of "classic" equipment - this

(https://www.prosoundweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OpenCrownDC300Image.jpg)

A Crown/Amcron DC300a

If it arrives (and the vendor is showing some unusual behaviour, so I'm not 100% confident it will arrive) then I'll let you know if things change for the Weinberger.

Mutatis mutandis for Nordstoga's Leipzig Chorales.

I am looking forward to reading your amp report.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/04/imgL/119142723.jpg)

Cyril Pallaud's Muffat's is like no one else's Muffat. He likes quiet and colourful registrations, and plays rather slowly, the result is that large sections of toccatas sound what I think of as "impressionist" - this, combined with a somewhat distant recording, can make the music difficult to hear analytically. To take one example, the opening section of toccata 3 is an extraordinary - hushed, there's clearly a lot of music going on in the low registers but it's more suggested than confidently declaimed.


For recordings with complete  toccatas or large selections  I have access to

Kelemen
Gottsche
Saorgin
Hasselböck
Pallaud
Ullman
Hester
Tüma
Radulescu


Is there anything else I should hear?

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 11, 2018, 04:15:50 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on August 10, 2018, 01:25:41 PM
Is there any (near) agreement as to where the best place in the church is? I suspect a center-rear position, and that the performer's location is not a good location for auditing. Just guessing.


No, not really. Organs and churches (and taste) differ too much. I prefer to sit relatively close to the organ in order to hear the details. 


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 04:34:00 AM
Presumably when your playing a big organ in a big church, you have to be playing for a particular spot in the audience. What I mean is, the acoustics at audience level must be a factor which determines your articulation, relative timing of the voices (the lower voices reaching the audience after the higher ones - a phenomenon I've had to adjust for when setting up the subwoofers!), tempo  and registrations.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on August 11, 2018, 05:46:58 AM
So much to respond to.

Recordings of the organ vary greatly. First of all is the church. As you are all aware, the smaller the church the less the reverberation. As a listener in the church, the further back from the organ you are the 'wetter' the sound, the more reverberent. Most recording engineers would choose to record an organ fairly close to it, the mic on a tall stand. (I recently attended 2 concerts at the same church, the first in honour of the organ builder, who was in the audience. The organ didn't sound particularly good from my 2nd pew. At the second concert, I sat where the organ builder had sat at the first concert--- what an improvement! It was about a third back along the far wall from the organ. I figured he knew best, maybe even using that spot to voice the organ when it was being built.) I like walking around a church while tunes are played looking for the sweet spot.

Microphone frequency responses are also a major factor in the recording of big pipes. Many have a response slowly rolling off bass which is rather unrealistic on playback, the use of which may be intentional since very few playback systems have response low enough to do them justice and may cause those systems serious grief in the form of distortion (wildly flapping cone to no purpose). In the vinyl age, deep bass reproduction was very difficult to lay down and play back. I have recordings with 15 minute sides because of the effort to cut 32' pipes onto the disc. That in itself is a problem. A cartridge that ca remain in the groove while being asked to track such excursions is another.

Forgive me for adding a note for Mandryka from the thread on Bach on the Organ, I mentioned some cancellation of bass notes because the Gradient subs are dipole, meaning that they produce sound both in front and behind them. You said you use bass traps 1 m behind them. I'm sure they help. However, my point may have been missed. Bass fires omnidirectionlly. Therefore, the output of the rear wave from the subs will cancel some from the front when they are out of phase.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 06:55:11 AM
Quote from: Elk on August 11, 2018, 05:46:58 AM
So much to respond to.

Recordings of the organ vary greatly. First of all is the church. As you are all aware, the smaller the church the less the reverberation. As a listener in the church, the further back from the organ you are the 'wetter' the sound, the more reverberent. Most recording engineers would choose to record an organ fairly close to it, the mic on a tall stand. (I recently attended 2 concerts at the same church, the first in honour of the organ builder, who was in the audience. The organ didn't sound particularly good from my 2nd pew. At the second concert, I sat where the organ builder had sat at the first concert--- what an improvement! It was about a third back along the far wall from the organ. I figured he knew best, maybe even using that spot to voice the organ when it was being built.) I like walking around a church while tunes are played looking for the sweet spot.

Microphone frequency responses are also a major factor in the recording of big pipes. Many have a response slowly rolling off bass which is rather unrealistic on playback, the use of which may be intentional since very few playback systems have response low enough to do them justice and may cause those systems serious grief in the form of distortion (wildly flapping cone to no purpose). In the vinyl age, deep bass reproduction was very difficult to lay down and play back. I have recordings with 15 minute sides because of the effort to cut 32' pipes onto the disc. That in itself is a problem. A cartridge that ca remain in the groove while being asked to track such excursions is another.

Forgive me for adding a note for Mandryka from the thread on Bach on the Organ, I mentioned some cancellation of bass notes because the Gradient subs are dipole, meaning that they produce sound both in front and behind them. You said you use bass traps 1 m behind them. I'm sure they help. However, my point may have been missed. Bass fires omnidirectionlly. Therefore, the output of the rear wave from the subs will cancel some from the front when they are out of phase.

Someone has put me on to a man who does audio room consultancy, if he's not too expensive I may ask him to come and take measurements of my room and advise me about treatment. Unfortunately, as I suspected, the Crown amp purchase is off! So I'm in the market again for a really good sub amplifier - given my system and interest (like, I'm not interested in playing reggae outside!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 11, 2018, 06:57:54 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/04/imgL/119142723.jpg)

Cyril Pallaud's Muffat's is like no one else's Muffat. He likes quiet and colourful registrations, and plays rather slowly, the result is that large sections of toccatas sound what I think of as "impressionist" - this, combined with a somewhat distant recording, can make the music difficult to hear analytically. To take one example, the opening section of toccata 3 is an extraordinary - hushed, there's clearly a lot of music going on in the low registers but it's more suggested than confidently declaimed.


For recordings with complete  toccatas or large selections  I have access to

Kelemen
Gottsche
Saorgin
Hasselböck
Pallaud
Ullman
Hester
Tüma
Radulescu


Is there anything else I should hear?

Falcioni and Forni. I haven't listened the Forni disc though. What do you think about Kelemen and Haselbock recordings?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 11, 2018, 07:02:51 AM
Quote from: Elk on August 11, 2018, 05:46:58 AM
So much to respond to.

Recordings of the organ vary greatly. First of all is the church. As you are all aware, the smaller the church the less the reverberation. As a listener in the church, the further back from the organ you are the 'wetter' the sound, the more reverberent. Most recording engineers would choose to record an organ fairly close to it, the mic on a tall stand. (I recently attended 2 concerts at the same church, the first in honour of the organ builder, who was in the audience. The organ didn't sound particularly good from my 2nd pew. At the second concert, I sat where the organ builder had sat at the first concert--- what an improvement! It was about a third back along the far wall from the organ. I figured he knew best, maybe even using that spot to voice the organ when it was being built.) I like walking around a church while tunes are played looking for the sweet spot.

Microphone frequency responses are also a major factor in the recording of big pipes. Many have a response slowly rolling off bass which is rather unrealistic on playback, the use of which may be intentional since very few playback systems have response low enough to do them justice and may cause those systems serious grief in the form of distortion (wildly flapping cone to no purpose). In the vinyl age, deep bass reproduction was very difficult to lay down and play back. I have recordings with 15 minute sides because of the effort to cut 32' pipes onto the disc. That in itself is a problem. A cartridge that ca remain in the groove while being asked to track such excursions is another.

Forgive me for adding a note for Mandryka from the thread on Bach on the Organ, I mentioned some cancellation of bass notes because the Gradient subs are dipole, meaning that they produce sound both in front and behind them. You said you use bass traps 1 m behind them. I'm sure they help. However, my point may have been missed. Bass fires omnidirectionlly. Therefore, the output of the rear wave from the subs will cancel some from the front when they are out of phase.
Insightful. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 07:17:35 AM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on August 11, 2018, 06:57:54 AM
Falcioni and Forni. I haven't listened the Forni disc though. What do you think about Kelemen and Haselbock recordings?

It's a while since I've heard Kelemen, I like Hasselböck, I'd forgotten about Falcioni, he's not on Qobuz (but he is on Spotify). If you can find a link to Forni, that would be good. I also forgot Martin Gester.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on August 11, 2018, 07:36:19 AM
Digital Sound Processing (DSP) like the Anthem Room Correction (ARC) is probably the easiest solution and may obviate the need to replace your current amps. Another solution, though not as refined, rather amusing when you picture it, is to place your sub in your listening chair and do a crawl around the periphery of the room listening for the evenest bass . It works for finding a sub's optimum spot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 07:42:24 AM
Yes I've heard that trick, and I've seen it done with single sealed subs, but the gradients are designed to act as stands for the ESLs!

I would very much like to get miniDSP to explore, both as a crossover and as a room correction. If you know any idiot's guide for using it, please say.

I haven't heard of Anthem Room Correction before but I will look into it. At first glance it's not quad friendly.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 11, 2018, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2018, 09:16:16 PM


For recordings with complete  toccatas or large selections  I have access to

Kelemen
Gottsche
Saorgin
Hasselböck
Pallaud
Ullman
Hester
Tüma
Radulescu


Is there anything else I should hear?


Yes, Falcioni and maybe Tobias Lindner and Hans Christoph Becker-Foss.

My favorite remains Göttsche.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 12:09:14 PM
Your transfer of the Göttsche is really very successful. He is probably my favourite of the brightly lit ones, but there's something dusky about Pallaud which is interesting, and I like the tempos,  even if he hardly does justice to the counterpoint, and Pallaud's organ is characterful. Shame Göttsche didn't record all 12.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 11, 2018, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 12:09:14 PM
Your transfer of the Göttsche is really very successful. He is probably my favourite of the brightly lit ones, but there's something dusky about Pallaud which is interesting, and I like the tempos,  even if he hardly does justice to the counterpoint, and Pallaud's organ is characterful. Shame Göttsche didn't record all 12.

He did record all 12, and the transfer should include the 12 toccatas and the passacaglia. I shall investigate that to morrow.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 12:20:34 PM
I have 1,3,8,11,12, the passacaglia and a chaconne, I'm listening to him play 11 now, it's outstanding. He's very good at the transitions.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 11, 2018, 12:33:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 12:20:34 PM
I have 1,3,8,11,12, the passacaglia and a chaconne, I'm listening to him play 11 now, it's outstanding. He's very good at the transitions.

That's the ones he recorded at Marmoutier. I shall upload the rest (recorded at Meissenheim) for you to morrow.


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 12:35:21 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 11, 2018, 12:33:12 PM
That's the ones he recorded at Marmoutier. I shall upload the rest (recorded at Meissenheim) for you to morrow.

Fabulous, I just listened to Pallaud's 11 and I take back my positive comments made 10 minutes ago, after Göttsche Pallaud just sounds dull!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 11, 2018, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2018, 07:17:35 AM
It's a while since I've heard Kelemen, I like Hasselböck, I'd forgotten about Falcioni, he's not on Qobuz (but he is on Spotify). If you can find a link to Forni, that would be good. I also forgot Martin Gester.

I was mistaken on Forni: He played only one Muffat. But the selection appears to be interesting anyway.

P.s. I'm afraid, I am not familiar with Pasquini though.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 07, 2018, 12:02:04 AM
I want to put together a list of recordings on Antegnati organs.

Here's what it says about them in An Organ Encyclopedia (Bush and Kassel)

QuoteThe most remarkable builder of the Antegnati family was Graziadio Antegnati (b. 1525: d. after 1590). son of Giovanni Batista. He built organs at S. Maria Maggiore. Bergamo (1564-66). S. Spirit*. Bergamo (1566-67). S. Barbara. Mantua (1565). Avila Cathedral (1573-1575), and the Crema Cathedral (1586). His only extant organ. however, is at S. Giuseppe. Brescia (1581).

Costanzo Antegnati (b. Brescia. 9 Dec 1549; d. Nov 1624), son of Graziadio, is the best-known member of the family. He collaborated with his father (from 1570) before taking a post as organist at Brescia Cathedral. a position he held until 1604. His organs include those at S. Giorgio. Bagolino (1590). the Madonna della Steceata, Parma (1593). S. Maria Maggiore, Bergamo (1593-94). and S. Giorgio Maggiore. Venice (1612). His fame rests primarily on his L'arte Organica  (Venice. 1608). a treatise containing a list of 144 organs built by the family, rules in tuning organs. harpsichords. and monochords (basically advocating meantone tempera-ment). and suggestions on organ registration. In addition to twelve ricercars (published as L'Antegnata (1608) together with L'arte Organica, Costanzo also composed a number of madrigals, masses, and motets. Costanzo's son Giovanni Francesco Antegnati (b. 1587). serves as an "interlocutor" in L'arte Organica.

The last organ-building member of the Antegnati family was Graziadio Antegnati (b. Brescia. 1609: d. 1656). In 1636 he was the conservatore of the organ at S. Marco, Venice: he later became organist at the Padua Cathedral (where he maintained the organ. 1644-45). He also worked on instruments at S. Giorgio Maggiore, Venice. and Brescia. S. Carlo. attributed (1636: 1/12: rest. Maccarinelli, 1958)

The specifications of the Antegnati organ were uniform in style: a single manual, a pull-down pedal, an open flue chorus (Principals 8'). a few Flutes of wider scale, and a single ripieno stop. incorporating an Ottava (4), Quintadecima (2), and, depending on the site of the instrument. Decitnanona (I -1/3). Vigesimaseconda (I'), Vigcsimascsta (2131, Vigcsimanona (1/2'), and Trigesimaterza (1/31. Antegnati avoided reed stops and (unlike other Italian builders) double ranks for the ripieno and the Principale.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 13, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
This comment, taken from an essay by Jean Ferrard for Arnaud van der Cauter's first Peter Cornet CD, made me stop and think

QuoteSi l'on considère que les deux œuvres datées de Peeter CORNET nous renvoient à 1624 et 1625, elles s'inscrivent dans ce qu'on peut sans aucun doute qualifier de "lustre le plus riche de l'histoire de la musique d'orgue", puisqu'il voit la parution de pas moins de huit ouvrages imprimés de première grandeur:

1623: Hymnes de l'Eglise pour toucher sur l'orgue de Jehan TITELOUZE 1624: Tabulatura Nova de Samuel SCHEIDT
1624: Primo Libro di Capricci de Girolamo FRESCOBALDI
1624: Ricercar Tabulatura de Johann Ulrich STEIGLEDER
1626: Facultad Organica de Francisco CORREA DE ARAUXO
1626: Le Magnificat ou cantique de la Vierge pour toucher sur l'orgue de Jehan TITELOUZE
1627: Secondo Libro di Toccate de Girolamo FRESCOBALDI
1627: Tabulaturbuch darinnen das Vatter unser 40 mal variiert wird de Johann Ulrich STEIGLEDER

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 15, 2018, 06:19:12 AM
(https://assets.idol.io/2018/06/28/promo/photo/62683_large.jpg?1530190803)


QuoteJohann Gottfried Walther
1 Ciacona sopra'l Canto Fermo O Jesu, du edle Gabe 5'23
Georg Böhm
2 Vater unser im Himmelreich 4'14
Johann Sebastian Bach
3 Adagio in d BWV 1001 3'59
4 Fuga in d BWV 539 5'26
5 Praeludium in A BWV 536 2'03
6 Fuga in A BWV 536 5'12
7 Ein fest Burg ist unser Gott BWV 720 3'50
8 Gute Nacht, o Wesen BWV 227 3'40
4'50 1'25
Sonate en trio n°6 BWV 530 14'49 11 Sonata VI – 1. Vivace 4'10
9 Præludium in G BWV 902 10 Fughetta in G BWV 902
12 Sonata VI – 2. Lento 6'56
13 Sonata VI – 3. Allegro 3'43
14 Præludium in C BWV 531 2'33
15 Fuga in C BWV 531 4'31

This is an Andréas Silberman organ at Sainte-Aurélie, Strasbourg, restored. Jérôme Mondesert writes in his notes

QuoteIl suffit de tirer le registre de la Montre de 8' et de jouer une sobre transcription du premier mouvement de la sonate BWV 1001 pour violon de Bach, pour être trans- porté dans un jardin sonore envoûtant dont la porte est entr'ouverte. Puisse l'auditeur s'y promener paisiblement.

The key words here are "sobre" and "paisiblement"  and this recording will, I think, interest people with sobre peaceful tastes and an interest in organology. It's not going to knock your socks off, but it's a pleasant way to pass an hour or so, and a very colourful organ.  With one reservation.

The reservation is as follows. The organ has a deep 16' pipe and Mondesert isn't afraid to use it, I don't think he makes a beautiful sound with it, especially in the Bohm  - or if he does it's not so specially well recorded here. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 02, 2018, 05:01:07 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 18, 2018, 11:10:31 AM
The organ is equally tuned. Information here:

http://www.canongatekirk.org.uk/organ/

I acquired Owens' Pachelbel vol.1 (on another organ). Found him a bit earthbound and matter of fact (like so many Pachelbel interpreters - Payne, Christie e.g.). Pachelbel's music is obviously difficult to play in an engaged way, and I have not considered vol.2., but now I wonder if I should download it from Presto.

I like the sounds he makes come out of the organ in vol 2 more than vol 1, basically I'm glad to have found vol 2.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on November 02, 2018, 05:08:07 AM
Its appropriate I think to post this forthcoming release with the music by Pachelbel.

Simone Stella/Pinchi-Skrabl-Organ Basilica San Giorgio fuori le mura, Ferrara, Italy


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 02, 2018, 05:15:41 AM
Cheers Harry, I'd forgotten about it, I'll hear it just as soon as it comes out.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on November 02, 2018, 05:21:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 02, 2018, 05:15:41 AM
Cheers Harry, I'd forgotten about it, I'll hear it just as soon as it comes out.

I know that organ quite well, been there, heard it live in a couple of visits, and liked it. I am curious how well it is recorded. High hopes on my side, for I dismissed the CPO recordings, they are simply no good.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 02, 2018, 11:23:45 PM
Yes I listened to some things played on it by Adriano Falcioni. Lovely clear well balanced organ. It sounds like it's got some sort of circular temperament.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on November 03, 2018, 01:28:28 AM
Quote from: "Harry" on November 02, 2018, 05:08:07 AM
Its appropriate I think to post this forthcoming release with the music by Pachelbel.

Simone Stella/Pinchi-Skrabl-Organ Basilica San Giorgio fuori le mura, Ferrara, Italy

I had noticed it as well...  :)

Was excited at first, but am now not getting my hopes up too much.....

Performing Pachelbel's entire organ output on a single organ, doesn't seem ideal to begin with.
Add to that a newly built (2012/13) organ "in German Baroque style" by an Italian and a Slovenian builder.

I need to hear it first, before getting close to any degree of excitement....  8)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on November 03, 2018, 01:55:37 AM
Quote from: Que on November 03, 2018, 01:28:28 AM
I had noticed it as well...  :)

Was excited at first, but am now not getting my hopes up too much.....

Performing Pachelbel's entire organ output on a single organ, doesn't seem ideal to begin with.
Add to that a newly built (2012/13) organ "in German Baroque style" by an Italian and a Slovenian builder.

I need to hear it first, before getting close to any degree of excitement....  8)

Q

I do not have so much trouble with one organ for a composer. Take for instance the CPO recordings. Different organs, but due to the way they are recorded  they all sounded as one miserable definition of Pachelbel's music. Plus the fact that the organists were in my view unsuitable.
I do not get my hopes up also, but by definition is has a better starting point. It is of no consequence or ackward that it is a new organ. If there is expertise and a thorough knowledge, and in this case there is, the outcome can be a successful one.
Italian influences are a good start and Slovenian organ builders were renowned throughout history, and therefore this merger did produce a beautiful sounding instrument, at least to my ears.
I may not be an expert as some on this forum, but during the live concertos I heard in this church, my impression was, that this organ sounds authentic, and has beautiful registrations. Thus my hopes are a bit higher. The only problem I fear, is how is it recorded. But I soon find out :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on November 03, 2018, 02:54:26 AM
Quote from: "Harry" on November 03, 2018, 01:55:37 AM
I do not have so much trouble with one organ for a composer. Take for instance the CPO recordings. Different organs, but due to the way they are recorded  they all sounded as one miserable definition of Pachelbel's music. Plus the fact that the organists were in my view unsuitable.
I do not get my hopes up also, but by definition is has a better starting point. It is of no consequence or ackward that it is a new organ. If there is expertise and a thorough knowledge, and in this case there is, the outcome can be a successful one.
Italian influences are a good start and Slovenian organ builders were renowned throughout history, and therefore this merger did produce a beautiful sounding instrument, at least to my ears.
I may not be an expert as some on this forum, but during the live concertos I heard in this church, my impression was, that this organ sounds authentic, and has beautiful registrations. Thus my hopes are a bit higher. The only problem I fear, is how is it recorded. But I soon find out :)

The credentials of the Slovenian builder seem impeccable: http://www.skrabl.com/index.php?Itemid=54&id=54&lang=en&option=com_content&view=article

I agree that a newly built organ can sound as the real deal. 
My concern is that the result can often also sound rather generic...

But we will see, awaiting your report!  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2018, 05:04:09 AM
There are in fact a couple of things by Pachelbel already recorded by Stella, a chaconne on a CD called "Toccata and Fugue", and a choral prelude on a CD called "A Christmas Organ" I've heard both and my guess is both are on modern organs tuned equally or close.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 07, 2018, 09:20:05 PM
https://youtube.com/v/EKF34fl9LeQ


Léon Berben, recital at the Van Straten-Organ, Orgelpark, Amsterdam Friday 14 October 2016, 01.13 p.m.   
00:17 Anonymus -Estampie   
03:33 Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (1525-1594)  -Ricercata del Primo Tono   
06:12 Johann Jacob Froberger (1616-1667) -Canzona II   
10:35 Antonio de Cabezón (1510-1566) -Hosanna de la Missa de L'Homme armé   
14:57 Antonio de Cabezón -Benedictus de la Missa de L'Homme armé   
18:18 Adriaen Willaert (c. 1490-1562) -Ricercar   
22:55 Girolamo Frescobaldi (1583-1643) -Capriccio sopra la Spagnoletta   
30:33 Johann Jacob Froberger -Toccata V, da sonarsi alla levatione, FbWV 105   
36:05 Antonio de Cabezón -Canción glosada Un gay bergier   
40:12 Antonio de Cabezón -Romance Para quién crié yo cabellos   
45:25 Buxheimer Orgelbuch  -Adieu mes tres belle   
49:48 Buxheimer Orgelbuch -Portugaler

Tough, harsh  music making!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on November 09, 2018, 02:09:06 AM
Mandryka, I played Mondésert's Bohm on both my main system and ear-phones cleanly and found the low bass, say, between low C and F above realistic if, perhaps, a bit plump, with much the same weight as I would hear in a church here, but not having heard the organ in Sainte-Aurélie, I have no idea how faithfully it is reproduced.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 09, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
I am interested in finding recordings of small organs--positifs, portatives, continuo/chamber organs. I would appreciate any suggestions.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 09, 2018, 01:08:04 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 09, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
I am interested in finding recordings of small organs--positifs, portatives, continuo/chamber organs. I would appreciate any suggestions.

I think this is an interesting question and one which takes you into some very cutting edge areas of experimentation in early music. Lots of new ideas are being tried out with organettos, apparently there's some guy in Holland, in Groningen I think, I forget his name, who has started to make very good ones, and that's helping make them hot, an area where things are moving rapidly. They're hand held, you pump them one hand and play keys with the other. Here's an example where you can see it in use by one of the pioneers in its revival, Guilliermo Peres

https://www.youtube.com/v/qtuAAC0JQt0

and here's one being played by Cataline Vicens, who's doing some interesting things with early keyboards

https://www.youtube.com/v/3jf6II2RSoo

At the other extreme there's Cameron Carpenter, who's got an electric "touring" organ

https://www.youtube.com/v/LOi1TucrG8M
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 11, 2018, 09:13:47 PM
Fascinating! But, I tend to prefer that last piece in mean tone tuning.  :laugh:

Can you recommend any CDs of these sorts of instruments?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 12, 2018, 07:19:41 AM
Tasto Solo have done three CDs, and Perez had recorded organetto for ClubMediéval, who have a recording of music by Paolo da Firenze. This is another one but maybe hard to find

(http://www.superlibrum.nl/images/superlibrum/CD/Intabulation.jpg)

I think this is rather good

https://soundcloud.com/jankees-braaksma/summum-sanctus

taken from a CD here

https://soundcloud.com/jankees-braaksma/summum-sanctus

I don't have it but I'll try to order it tomorrow from here, where I notice that they sat that you can order a copy of the 14th century intabulations CD, which I have already.

http://www.superlibrum.nl/index.php/media-hoofdmenu/cd-submenu

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 12, 2018, 08:24:24 AM
This article looks interesting if you're interested in small medieval organs

http://www.davidrumsey.ch/DIAP0513p20-25.pdf

Good picture here, part of the publicity for a concert in the Netherlands a couple of years ago, I get a very strong feeling that this is an area where things are really moving

(https://www.inhetwesterkwartier.nl/img/agenda/21179/21.4.2017_bovenaanzichtmetbraaksma__large.jpg)

and this for a concert last year, once again in Fresia

(http://www.superlibrum.nl/images/Cristina_Alis_Raurich.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 12, 2018, 09:48:54 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 09, 2018, 01:08:04 PM
Lots of new ideas are being tried out with organettos, apparently there's some guy in Holland, in Groningen I think, I forget his name, who has started to make very good ones, and that's helping make them hot, an area where things are moving rapidly.
Winold van der Putten!
https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/?lang=en
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 18, 2018, 12:54:31 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 09, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
I am interested in finding recordings of small organs--positifs, portatives, continuo/chamber organs. I would appreciate any suggestions.

William Lawes wrote music for small string ensembles supplemented with organ, small portative organ. You may want to try out some recordings - if you go to the thread on English music you'll see I mentioned one or two that I like, but I haven't found it easy music to appreciate (maybe because it's oversold)

There may be other British composers who wrote consort music with organ, I just can't remember off the top of my head. And I can't think of the genre in French, German, Italian or Spanish music off hand, though you do hear small organs in Feescobaldi's canzoni da sonare.

There are also people who believe Bach's accompanied violin sonatas come across better with chamber organ than with other keyboards, you'll see quite a bit of discussion about that here in the relevant thread. There's a fine recording of Bach's gamba sonatas with organ to, with  Patxi Montero and Daniele Boccaccio

Some of Ayara's Arauxo series is played on a small renaissance organ in Seville College, it's so small you may as well call it a chamber organ. Again I remember mentioning it years ago in the thread in Spanish organ music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 18, 2018, 10:39:54 PM
More on small organs. Laurence Bisset is the director of the ensemble De Caelis, she is a singer and also a keyboard player. In her recording of music from the book of Aliénor d'Aquitaine, she has experimented with using an organanetto to accompany some of the songs there. It's very good IMO, hypnotic and rapt.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on November 22, 2018, 05:36:40 AM
I do intend to comb through this sub again but I What I want to find right now is the best recordings of the earliest music on the earliest organs. I would like to hear early Italian, English and whatever else...I know there's a lot in this thread and I even have some good recordings already in this area.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 22, 2018, 07:20:45 AM
Quote from: milk on November 22, 2018, 05:36:40 AM
I do intend to comb through this sub again but I What I want to find right now is the best recordings of the earliest music on the earliest organs. I would like to hear early Italian, English and whatever else...I know there's a lot in this thread and I even have some good recordings already in this area.

For very old music played solo on an organ, try Gothic Pipes and The First Printed Organ Music by Kimberly Marshall, Joseph Kelemen's Buxheimer CD. Daniel Beilschmidt's CD called Fortuna Deperata may also be of interest. If you're interested accompanied chamber organ, then the recent discussion I was involved in here is relevant.  The worlds oldest complete organ is at Valère in present day Switzerland, there's a listenable CD by Albert Bolliger.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on November 22, 2018, 01:06:36 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 22, 2018, 07:20:45 AM
For very old music played solo on an organ, try Gothic Pipes and The First Printed Organ Music by Kimberly Marshall, Joseph Kelemen's Buxheimer CD. Daniel Beilschmidt's CD called Fortuna Deperata may also be of interest. If you're interested accompanied chamber organ, then the recent discussion I was involved in here is relevant.  The worlds oldest complete organ is at Valère in present day Switzerland, there's a listenable CD by Albert Bolliger.
Great! Looking forward to finding these. Yeah, it's hard to find any recordings with reproductions of early chamber organs, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 27, 2018, 04:15:09 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on November 12, 2018, 09:48:54 PM
Winold van der Putten!
https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/?lang=en

This may be of interest, taken from Ensemble Super Librum's CD called Rosas, which is rather good I think

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510i5Cp6JsL.jpg)

QuoteMedieval Organ Improvisations and Marian Songs

The organ

I do not much enjoy the sound of the organ,' confessed bishop Baldric of Dol at the beginning of the 12th century. Apparently he foresaw that his contemporaries might find this rather alarming, because less than a whole sentence later he added the following thought: 'But it encourages me to reflect that, just as divers pipes, of differing weight and size, sound together in a single melody as a result of the air in them, so men should think the same thoughts, and inspired by the Holy Spirit, unite in a single purpose.' In other words: the reverend Baldric enjoyed the organ after all - albeit in a theological sense. With this statement he unwittingly informed us that his ears weren't musically very experienced.


Actually, a medieval organ doesn't require all that much talent of its listeners: the similarities and the differences with other instruments make it accessible to almost everybody. Just as other instruments, it has a single tone color, a considerable contrast from later organ types. The differences, that it is played with wide keys and that people are needed to pump air from the bellows into the organ, make the organ music just that much more interesting: a medieval organ concert has as much to offer the eye as the ear. The stubborn idea that medieval organs must have sounded terribly loud (and that Baldric couldn't stand the instrument because of an extremely refined sense of hearing) appears to be mostly a misunderstanding. Reconstructions of medieval organs throughout Europe demonstrate that, on the contrary, the sound is rather elegant and refined.


The organ featured on this CD is one of these instruments. Winold van der Putten and his I 11 employees Ingrid Noack and Bert Meems built it in 1999 using two old texts as source material: De fistulis Organis (literally 'About organ pipes'), by an anonymous author from Bern from the loth century; and the treatise Diversarum Artium Schedule (`Catalog of the various arts'), written by the Benedictine monk Theophilus at the end of the 11th century. An illumination from the Rutland Psalter, dated around 1260, was another important source. Combination of the material from these sources led to conclusions about the manufacture of the pipes, the bellows, the shape of the keys, the appearance, and the interior of the organ (the so-called windchest, which directs the wind to only those pipes belonging to a key which is being played).


The special sound of this organ, which can be described as mild and a bit throaty, is the result of a quite extraordinary way of pipe making. The shape of all the pipes and the location of the all the mouths are based on a single basic conical shape. The result is that the large pipes are relatively narrow, so that they have a clear sound, while the smaller ones are comparatively wider, so that their overtones are less apparent. The pipes are made, as is the rest of the organ, ofplane tree wood. The whole organ is painted in the colors shown in the illustration in the Rutland Psalter, with paint based on linseed oil as instructed by Theophilus. For each key there are two pipes, each with its own pitch; the two are a fifth apart. The two pitches however blend in such a way as to produce a single sound.

There are four large bellows, constructed after the example of an old blacksmith's bellows in the Soo-year old `Smederie in Hellendoorn. Two bellows treaders are needed. Measurements indicate that the organ sounds best when the treaders realise a wind pressure in the organ of approximately 110 mm, which is quite high, and in the zoth century has often been seen as a typical sign of 19th-century decadence.

Which brings us back to bishop Baldric. For those who, otherwise than medieval theologians or 20th-century pedants, dare to allow their ears 'enjoyment in the sound of the organ', this CD offers an almost mystical journey through time - not in the last place because ancient music played on this organ sounds wonderfully modern.

Hans Fidom


The music

Until recently 'the medieval organ' existed only as a picture. There's a very important reason that the manner in which this organ was played was a riddle: there is little or nothing left ofmedieval musical notation that seems to refer to 'organ music'. Now that the first successful playable reconstruction of a medieval organ has been made, we can try to rediscover the missing links in the earliest organ tradition. The improvisations played on this CD are a first step in this direction.

It is striking that the earliest sources from which it appears that the middle ages had a rich organ tradition are met in the north of The Netherlands and Germany. The small but important organ tablatures from Winsum (1431) and Oldenburg (1448) contain a number of ornamented versions of proprium melodies, the regular sections of the mass: Kyrie, Credo, Agnus Dei. In the tablatures from Oldenburg there are couplets omitted from the Gloria, the Credo, and in a number of sequences. This may mean that the notated verses were improvised by the organist and that the missing verses were sung by the choir. The Kyrie in our performance follows this structure.

The organ fragments in these sources polyphonic arrangements in which the original Gregorian melody is heard in the tenor, and in the upper voice a rhythmic counterpoint: a style characteristic for the early 15th century, which was still indebted to the 'simple' late 14th-century an nova. The organ parts are in fact notated improvisations.

In the Oldenburg tablature and in the Preambula in the tablature of Adam Ileborgh (1448) we find a number of rhythmically free pieces called redeuntes, which can be viewed as `documents' of such improvisations, and which were possibly used as intonation before an I 13 I antiphon or responsory sung by the choir. In this recording we have followed the principle of the redeuntes, an improvisation above bourdon or drone, as the oldest tangible example of free improvisation.

The improvisations all have the following structure.

Opening

Often beginning with a second below the final, followed by a prelude in which the modus is explored. Modus means here both the color of the ecclesiastical tone and the groups of notes (called 'cells') which are constantly heard, with slight variations, in the melody.

Continuation in a longer phrase

Sometimes this phrase is derived from a Gregorian melody, sometimes the form is free but containing ingredients derived from various melodies. This is the core of the improvisation.
Continuation in rhythm Here appears the first (short-long) or the second rhythmic modus (long-short). In this rhythmic version some of the melodic cells from the longer phrases should still be heard. Examples of the music for this application of rhythm can be found in the conductus and clausulae of the Notre Dame-school. This is music that was heard in and around the church during the liturgy and during processions and feast days, and which was thus probably performed instrumentally.

Postlude

The postlude recalls the introduction and ends with a second below the final to emphasize the end of the piece.

The bourdons or drones, which sound from the large pipes at the sides of the keyboard, are heard prominently in all the improvisations and as accompaniment to the vocal compositions. The melodies we use are shaped within the bounds of the ecclesiastical tones. On this CD we used the dorian (the most accessible, sweet; often used for Marian songs), the phrygian (with the pure second f-e, which is considered a symbol of Christ's cross), and the lydian modus (possibly derived from North-African music, with the characteristic augmented fourth between the first and the fourth steps; often used in dance-like music). It is important to know that a scale as such was not a musical ingredient in the middle ages - so there are no long scalic passages. The rhythmically free approach to the improvisations is conceived as a development from chant. The i ith-century organum manuscript St-Martial de Limoges provides contemporary starting points for ornamentation and melodic shape.

Non-western music of our own time can also give us an idea of how medieval organ improvisations sounded. There seems to be a relationship between traditional classical Armenian music and the earliest European polyphony: the Armenian shvi (recorder) 'forces' the reed instrument (duduk) playing the drone in its improvisations to slide to an other tone. We can find the same idiom in the 11th-century organs (polyphonic song) of the manuscript St-Martial de Limoges.

It is a challenge demanding some considerable imagination to lay a relationship when improvising on this medieval organ between western and non-western music. We'll never know for certain how this music sounded. We might find the mechanical noise made between the key and the pipe disturbing; but we could also hear it as percussion, like that sometimes heard with (exciting) ud music in North Africa. In the same way, the sound of the treading of the bellows seems equally natural.

Jankees Braaksrna

The organ builder Vinold van der Putten learned organ building with the brothers Reil of Heerde. He now leads his own organ building firm in Finsterwolde (The Netherlands). He is specialized in the medieval organ, but is also interested in later styles. Departing from his ideas about historic continuo-playing, he builds, for example, chest organs, in most cases for music schools and professional musicians. Among his works, the restaurations of several positive organs, among them an Italian instrument (Napoli 1760) and organs in the region around the Dollard, are important, as is the construction of a new large 17th century-style organ (with meantone temperament and subsemitones) for Bremen-Walle. Whether building a portative or a blockwerk organ, a chest organ or a church organ, Van der Putten and his employees inspired always by historical sources, be it regarding the architecture, the iconography or the literature of the respective period. Some of the organs he built can be heard on CD.


The musicians Arian van der Heide studied voice at the Conservatory of Groningen. After earning 1Tilher diploma she continued her studies with the Canadian soprano Ann Monoyios, a well-known early music specialist. She is a member of Super Librum and o fLa Poetica, the Ensemble Josquin Desprez, and the Collegium Musicum Groningen. She is regularly heard as soloist on radio and television. Both early and modern music fascinate her. Together with a pianist, a dancer and an artist she created a performance around 'Apparition' (1979) by George Crumb. Marian van der Heide teaches voice and vocal ensembles at the Municipal Music School at Groningen.

Tankees Braaksma studied recorder at the conservatories of Groningen and Amsterdam with Jeanette van Wingerden, Kees Boeke and Baldrick Deerenberg. With a stipend from the city of Groningen he studied medieval music at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Basel. Braaksma is not only a recorder player but also plays four medieval organs built by Winold van der Putten: three portatives and the larger instrument heard on this recording. The four organs belong to the collection ofSuper Librum, the ensemble for medieval music that Braaksma began in 1985. The study of ancient improvisation practices is the main accent of Super Librum. Super Librum appears at most European early music festivals. This is the seventh CD van the ensemble has made. Jankees Braaksma is a guest teacher at various conservatories in The Netherlands and Germany.


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JBS on November 27, 2018, 07:33:23 PM
Cross post from WAYLT

I finished listening to this 4 CD set tonight
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BHCpVvwgL.jpg)
And found myself not liking it. The longer works especially seem to meander and lose their sense of structure. I found them to go on for much too long. I am inclined to blame the composer since I have several sets from van Oosten and all the others seemed excellent.
Maybe later composers like Widor and Vierne learned from Franck's mistakes?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 28, 2018, 09:44:46 PM
Quote from: milk on November 22, 2018, 05:36:40 AM
I do intend to comb through this sub again but I What I want to find right now is the best recordings of the earliest music on the earliest organs. I would like to hear early Italian, English and whatever else...I know there's a lot in this thread and I even have some good recordings already in this area.

If you get interested in Gothic organ music, and you want to see what the next step was, them I think the way Kelemen plays Hans Leo Hassler here brings out the connection very clearly

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81S6nv1kcKL._SX355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on November 28, 2018, 09:59:22 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 28, 2018, 09:44:46 PM
If you get interested in Gothic organ music, and you want to see what the next step was, them I think the way Kelemen plays Hans Leo Hassler here brings out the connection very clearly

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81S6nv1kcKL._SX355_.jpg)
I'll definitely give this a go. I like this early stuff and I liked the "Gothic Pipes" recording. I was also going to give Kelemen's Sweelinck a try. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 13, 2018, 12:07:01 AM
Quote from: milk on November 28, 2018, 09:59:22 PM
I'll definitely give this a go. I like this early stuff and I liked the "Gothic Pipes" recording. I was also going to give Kelemen's Sweelinck a try.

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/032/MI0001032250.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Joseph Payne has recorded a lot of material from the Buxheimer organ book, I like most his first of the series, called Vox Originalis. He uses an organ which is very old, in the Netherlands at Krewerd in Groningen, meantone and well restored.

There's also a gothic recording by Roland Goetz called Gotische Orgenkunst, which is rather natural and fluid and refind, I think the organ is at Blaubeuren Abbey, it may well be equally tuned. Koopman also recorded a Buxhimer book CD which is vigorous and intense, he used the Triforium organ at Metz which, now at least, is meantone.

Have a listen also, if you can, to David Kinsela's three recordings of gothic music on a 15th century harpsichord, or rather a copy, music by Conrad Paumann and Paul Hofhaimer. The booklets to these recordings are also outstanding, containing an essay on the impact on keyboard music of the move from Pythagorian to Meantone tuning, for example. Clemencic's clavichord recordings are also invaluable for Gothic instrumental music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on December 13, 2018, 12:54:01 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2018, 12:07:01 AM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/032/MI0001032250.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Joseph Payne has recorded a lot of material from the Buxheimer organ book, I like most his first of the series, called Vox Originalis. He uses an organ which is very old, in the Netherlands at Krewerd in Groningen, meantone and well restored.

There's also a gothic recording by Roland Goetz called Gotische Orgenunst, which is rather natural and fluid and refind, I think the organ is at Blaubeuren Abbey, it may well be equally tuned. Koopman also recorded a Buxhimer book CD which is vigorous and intense, he used the Triforium organ at Metz which, now at least, is meantone.

Have a listen also, if you can, to David Kinsela's three recordings of gothic music on a 15th century harpsichord, or rather a copy, music by Conrad Paumann and Paul Hofhaimer. The booklets to these recordings are also outstanding, containing an essay on the impact on keyboard music of the move from Pythagorian to Meantone tuning, for example. Clemencic's clavichord recordings are also invaluable for Gothic instrumental music.
This post is a great resource to go through. With having a streaming service and the holidays near, it's a perfect time to see where it gets me (and other will have it to). Thanks!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 13, 2018, 01:18:15 AM
I forgot what may actually be the best, the five tracks played at Rysum on this recording by Harald Vogel, very beautiful organ and music and performance

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611B8ia6q9L._SS500.jpg)

Paumann : Redeuntes in mi
Schlick : Maria zart
Kotter : Kochersperger Spanieler
Hofhaimer : Ade mit Leid
Isaac : Innsbruck, ich muss dich lassen
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2019, 10:34:15 PM
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/04/imgL/119142723.jpg)

The organ is very distinctive, husky dusky. It's one of the best organs I've ever heard for whispering.

Imagine the moon rising over a lake shrouded in mist, that's the sort of light and shade that Cyril Pallaud's creates on his organ in Sierentz. He has a way of phrasing the music which makes it sound almost improvised; the registrations are chosen to create a dusky blend of sounds.

This quasi impressionist interpretation of Muffat's Apparatus is evocative, geared most towards colour than to counterpoint, it reminds me in fact of what I like most in Muffat's concertos.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 10, 2019, 02:53:04 AM
I also think this CD with Early organ music played on a portativ is rather interesting:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelmusik-Renaissance-F-Portativ-Krakamp/dp/B000025VR4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549799423&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=fine+krakamp
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on February 10, 2019, 05:27:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2018, 01:18:15 AM
I forgot what may actually be the best, the five tracks played at Rysum on this recording by Harald Vogel, very beautiful organ and music and performance

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611B8ia6q9L._SS500.jpg)

Paumann : Redeuntes in mi
Schlick : Maria zart
Kotter : Kochersperger Spanieler
Hofhaimer : Ade mit Leid
Isaac : Innsbruck, ich muss dich lassen

A pity I could not find it anymore :o
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 10, 2019, 05:36:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2018, 01:18:15 AM
I forgot what may actually be the best, the five tracks played at Rysum on this recording by Harald Vogel, very beautiful organ and music and performance

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611B8ia6q9L._SS500.jpg)

Paumann : Redeuntes in mi
Schlick : Maria zart
Kotter : Kochersperger Spanieler
Hofhaimer : Ade mit Leid
Isaac : Innsbruck, ich muss dich lassen

It is included in this box:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8034728--famous-organ-music-from-europe
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on February 10, 2019, 05:53:40 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 10, 2019, 05:36:55 AM
It is included in this box:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8034728--famous-organ-music-from-europe

Really...well I have that box, still lying somewhere in my listening pile, thank you for alerting me to this fact.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 10, 2019, 06:27:26 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 10, 2019, 02:53:04 AM
I also think this CD with Early organ music played on a portativ is rather interesting:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelmusik-Renaissance-F-Portativ-Krakamp/dp/B000025VR4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549799423&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=fine+krakamp

I ordered a copy of it from amazon in Germany -- there's also this (horrid revival harpsichord)

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music49/v4/e8/5b/9c/e85b9c34-cb5b-59f5-53eb-047b9abeb695/cover.jpg/268x0w.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 10, 2019, 08:18:05 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 10, 2019, 06:27:26 AM
I ordered a copy of it from amazon in Germany -- there's also this (horrid revival harpsichord)

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music49/v4/e8/5b/9c/e85b9c34-cb5b-59f5-53eb-047b9abeb695/cover.jpg/268x0w.jpg)

This was an Archiv 45 rpm with a suite by Buxtehude and a suite by Krieger. I recall it very clearly from my youth, when revival harpsichords were the golden standard and recordings of music like this were far between.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 10, 2019, 08:45:54 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 10, 2019, 08:18:05 AM
I recall it very clearly from my youth,

You must have been an elephant in a former life.

(I haven't heard the Krieger yet -- but somehow the harpsichord made me think of Neumeyer's Sweelinck, so I've been enjoying that instead.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on April 07, 2019, 06:48:47 AM
For those of you with multiple subwoofers, I have been experimenting having 2 myself, after reading a research article: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/00da/51387c572cfd27c0256cb15e44e976a1a72e.pdf In it, there is the recommendation to place the 2 at mid points on opposite ends of the room. It works astonishingly well, making ALL recordings sound better because bass notes are even throughout the room. The results are even better if there are 4 subs at mid points, but my budget will never allow that. I urge you to try it if you can.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 08, 2019, 08:40:54 AM
Which speakers and which subs?

I'm quite interested in trying a pair of small subs with my JR 149s.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on April 08, 2019, 12:47:25 PM
Howard, I'm not really sure what to tell you about subs because I know nothing about your associated equipment, and I live in London. Ontario, Canada, and not London in the UK, so I have no idea what is available there. The JR 149s should be crossed over at 100 Hz. Hopefully, you have pre-out and main in your associated amp, and the subwoofers have a dedicated crossover and amp. Beyond that, you may have to trust your dealer to know what they are doing. Unfortunately, not many do. Please ask more questions.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 10, 2019, 07:02:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/9ZDLmIF1Elk
Fabulous performance of a fabulous piece of music by Henry Purcell here, played by Leonhardt. The Double Organ Voluntary. Are there any other recommendable performances on nice organs?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 10, 2019, 07:03:10 AM
Quote from: Elk on April 08, 2019, 12:47:25 PM
Howard, I'm not really sure what to tell you about subs because I no nothing about your associated equipment, and I live in London. Ontario, Canada, and not London in the UK, so I have no idea what is available there. The JR 149s should be crossed over at 100 Hz. Hopefully, you have pre-out and main in your associated amp, and the subwoofers have a dedicated crossover and amp. Beyond that, you may have to trust your dealer to know what they are doing. Unfortunately, not many do. Please ask more questions.

I shall investigate some time soon and report back.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 10, 2019, 06:40:04 PM
We will be going to France in June and I am searching for churches in Paris (and also St. Malo, Dinan, Carnac, Vannes) that will have organ recitals. We are also going to Chartes and Reims for day trips (will be going to St. Tattinger also in Reims).

I found this site, but if anyone has more info, I'd be interested.

https://www.organsparisn.vhhil.nl/index.htm
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on April 11, 2019, 03:23:05 AM
This website may have been mentioned, and I missed it: https://www.organlive.com/home

I edited this to show the home page so that one can listen to what is currently being streamed. I open a second window so that I can go to the Now Playing page and update it as the selections change to know what is being played, by whom, and where.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 26, 2019, 02:11:49 AM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/5400439002142.jpg?1553169298)

This is a really fabulous organ recording, I just can't stop listening to it!

Nice little interview with Christophe Deslignes here, about his backgraound in Basel and the physical problems about playing little organs etc

http://www.apemutam.org/portail/christophedeslignes.pdf
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on May 13, 2019, 03:30:56 AM
I believe it was XB-70 Valkyrie who asked for recommendations of fine organ music, so here goes with a couple of pieces I don't think have been mentioned.
Of the 3 recordings I have of Reubke's Sonata on the 94th Psalm, 2 by Simon Preston and one by Jean Guillou, the one I return to most often is Preston's second on DGG. Both of his are satisfying, but the second is better recorded. The Guillou is fantastically recorded, but the performance is so idiosyncratic that it is difficult to listen to. The music is on the dark side, gabbing one by the gut emotionally from the opening notes.
The second piece I would recommend for many of the same reasons is Poulenc's Concerto for Organ, Strings, and Tympani, another tour de force. Of the many recordings I have heard, the one that hits the turntable is the EMI release of Maurice Duruflé and Georges Prêtre. The acoustic is nearly perfect, and the pacing and sound are tangibly real.
Of course, there is much French music from the 19th and 20th century. I wrote earlier about Franck. I have repeatedly tried to fancy Vierne and Widor to no avail despite my many recordings. However, I like Guilmant's sonatas, Duruflé's pieces, and the music of Messiaen. Latry's complete set of Messiaen is perhaps the safest current choice, but for the music up to 1976 or so, Louis Thiry's set can be had for considerably less and is very fine.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 14, 2019, 12:43:19 PM
Nice film here on the Martini Schnitger with Juergen Ahrend

https://www.youtube.com/v/eml6w6-tsH4

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on May 14, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 14, 2019, 12:43:19 PM
Nice film here on the Martini Schnitger with Juergen Ahrend

https://www.youtube.com/v/eml6w6-tsH4

Thank you for posting this film, I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 15, 2019, 12:29:20 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 14, 2019, 12:43:19 PM
Nice film here on the Martini Schnitger with Juergen Ahrend

https://www.youtube.com/v/eml6w6-tsH4

Ah, the Martini Rondeau - a most charming movie.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 15, 2019, 08:56:10 AM
There's a wonderful moment when he takes out a pipe that Schnitger himself had lovingly fashioned with his own hands, a pipe that Michael Praetorius had played,  and he just blows down it, clearly totally at ease with himself. It reminds me of a time when I found myself in a museum with a curator who was keen that I actually touch some incredibly rare Chinese porcelain to get a feel for the feel of it. So she placed a priceless C17 teapot on the table and told me to pick it up, so I did  . . . by the spout.

The look on her face, there was a suppressed scream as she realised the stupidity of what she'd done, and my own naivety about handling ancient objects.

No damage done, but never again.

Anyway I think I've found a way of making it to Groningen in September so with a bit of luck I'll hear the beast sing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on May 16, 2019, 03:42:51 AM
Lucky you, Mandryka. Enjoy!

(good news about the teapot)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 01, 2019, 12:04:34 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0760623212067.jpg)

Anyone heard this one? Seems promising, but no samples online. (MDG's frustrating thing of not having any of their music on spotify etc., and only occasionally itunes)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 02, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 01, 2019, 12:04:34 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0760623212067.jpg)

Anyone heard this one? Seems promising, but no samples online. (MDG's frustrating thing of not having any of their music on spotify etc., and only occasionally itunes)

I was waiting for you to buy it and post your reactions.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 01:02:17 AM
Are these sound-files acceptable?

https://www.amazon.de/J-S-Bach-Clavier-Übung-Teil/dp/B07NJV6LTP/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 03, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
Quote from: Marc on June 03, 2019, 01:02:17 AM
Are these sound-files acceptable?

https://www.amazon.de/J-S-Bach-Clavier-Übung-Teil/dp/B07NJV6LTP/

ENTSCHULDIGUNG
die gewünschte Seite konnte nicht gefunden werden
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 03, 2019, 01:30:18 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 03, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
ENTSCHULDIGUNG
die gewünschte Seite konnte nicht gefunden werden

That's because only part of the link is live, use your mouse to copy and paste the whole thing and it should work - it's the web page for the CD on the German Amazon.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on June 03, 2019, 01:31:06 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 03, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
ENTSCHULDIGUNG
die gewünschte Seite konnte nicht gefunden werden

The link works for me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 01:31:44 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 03, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
ENTSCHULDIGUNG
die gewünschte Seite konnte nicht gefunden werden

Apparently something went wrong with the underlining of the link, dunno why or how... you have to copy and paste the text of the entire link. It worked for me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 03, 2019, 01:41:00 AM
Andreas Fischer is already on record playing this organ here

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71phhuafDBL._SX522_.jpg)

And of course you can hear the restored organ here, one of my favourite Foccroulle CDs

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OeXy0p%2BIL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 03, 2019, 01:44:53 AM
By the way, gentlemen, I've just booked my flights to hear CU 3 in Groningen in September!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 02:32:40 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 03, 2019, 01:41:00 AM
Andreas Fischer is already on record playing this organ here

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71phhuafDBL._SX522_.jpg)

And of course you can hear the restored organ here, one of my favourite Foccroulle CDs

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OeXy0p%2BIL.jpg)

This one ain't bad either (organist is Sietze de Vries):

https://www.jsbrecords.nl/product/hamburg-st-katharinen/
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 03, 2019, 02:49:44 AM
Quote from: Marc on June 03, 2019, 02:32:40 AM
This one ain't bad either (organist is Sietze de Vries):

https://www.jsbrecords.nl/product/hamburg-st-katharinen/

But as you know, Dutch-only recordings are extremely difficult to get hold of for common mortals. 
:(
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 03:20:23 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 03, 2019, 02:49:44 AM
But as you know, Dutch-only recordings are extremely difficult to get hold of for common mortals. 
:(

It was available for a short while of the American Amazon, but it appears to be OOP there.

https://www.amazon.com/Organ-Katharinenkirche-Hamburg-Sietze-Organist/dp/B00XUAONQ4

And here is another link... iirc, Mandryka has managed to order some stuff there:

https://www.boeijengamusic.com/en/sietze-de-vries-katharinenkirche-hamburg.html
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 03, 2019, 03:23:36 AM
Sadly, in the US I don't have the samples on Amazon. I guess ill wait when it is on itunes etc.

MDG also has released recordings of Hilger Kespohl playing the recently restored Schnitger organ in Neuenfelde (the home parish of Schnitger himself). Weckmann and Scheidenann. I think the weckmann might be on itunes already.

I recently talked to Frits Elshout, a head voicer of Flentrop who is also the mastermind behind the Katharinenkirche organ reconstruction. That prompted my interest in it.

I will probably get the de Vries. He is always phenomenal. Read a review that funnily enough complained that de Vries didn't follow the famous "Zinck registration" used by Praetorius and Weckmann in one of the pieces.

Also lots of recordings of it on All of Bach. Also was lucky to hear it in the flesh a few years ago, although it was just the first half of the service (Bach's A minor Praeludium played in a handful of soft principals)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 03, 2019, 03:25:41 AM
Quote from: Marc on June 03, 2019, 03:20:23 AM
It was available for a short while of the American Amazon, but it appears to be OOP there.

https://www.amazon.com/Organ-Katharinenkirche-Hamburg-Sietze-Organist/dp/B00XUAONQ4

And here is another link... iirc, Mandryka has managed to order some stuff there:

https://www.boeijengamusic.com/en/sietze-de-vries-katharinenkirche-hamburg.html

Better yet, here, along with all the other SdV recordings. :)
https://www.jsbrecords.nl/cds-dvds/?lang=en

Edit: just realized that Marc already posted a link from jsb
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 03:27:52 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 03, 2019, 03:23:36 AM
Sadly, in the US I don't have the samples on Amazon. I guess ill wait when it is on itunes etc.

MDG also has released recordings of Hilger Kespohl playing the recently restored Schnitger organ in Neuenfelde (the home parish of Schnitger himself). Weckmann and Scheidenann. I think the weckmann might be on itunes already.

I recently talked to Frits Elshout, a head voicer of Flentrop who is also the mastermind behind the Katharinenkirche organ reconstruction. That prompted by interest in it.

I will probably get the de Vries. He is always phenomenal.

But aren't you able to check out the German Amazon samples?
https://www.amazon.de/J-S-Bach-Clavier-Übung-Teil/dp/B07NJV6LTP/

(Apologies for the odd semi-corrupt link... you have to copy and paste the entire link to make it work.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2019, 03:30:53 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 03, 2019, 03:25:41 AM
Better yet, here, along with all the other SdV recordings. :)
https://www.jsbrecords.nl/cds-dvds/?lang=en

The jsb-opportunity was already mentioned in my first message about De Vries.
But then Premont said something about possible problems with ordering from abroad.

Hence the two alternatives.

:)

EDIT: just realized that bioluminescentsquid had already discovered that I had already posted a jsb-link... :laugh:
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 04, 2019, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Marc on June 03, 2019, 01:02:17 AM
Are these sound-files acceptable?

https://www.amazon.de/J-S-Bach-Clavier-Übung-Teil/dp/B07NJV6LTP/ (https://www.amazon.de/J-S-Bach-Clavier-%C3%9Cbung-Teil/dp/B07NJV6LTP/)

Just realized that the soundfiles were displayed when I opened it on my laptop, but not on my phone (which I first looked at them on). I'll sample them.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 05, 2019, 11:54:47 PM
Another source of temptation! This is a very unique and eccentric organ, in Elshout's words it "Opened a whole new unknown world".
(https://www.organroxx.com/web/image/product.template/1942/image?unique=dcc3e0d)
https://www.organroxx.com/en_US/shop/product/the-renaisance-organ-of-olkusz-1942
(Beware of that first Sweelinck sample; we have those chirpy polish cimbels in full blast)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2019, 04:12:40 AM
Thanks for pointing out Mr Urbaniak, I ordered the CD (after not a little battling with the website >:() after being impressed by this one which I found on Qobuz. He's a "studious" musician rather than a flamboyant one I'd say, which is all to the good in my book. He also makes interesting programmes. And likes the sort of organs I like - small, colourful.

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/4250976100303.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2019, 04:32:06 AM
Quote from: Marc on June 03, 2019, 03:20:23 AM
It was available for a short while of the American Amazon, but it appears to be OOP there.

https://www.amazon.com/Organ-Katharinenkirche-Hamburg-Sietze-Organist/dp/B00XUAONQ4

And here is another link... iirc, Mandryka has managed to order some stuff there:

https://www.boeijengamusic.com/en/sietze-de-vries-katharinenkirche-hamburg.html

There's a lot of Sietze de Vries on YouTube I'm not sure what to think yet, except that (be warned - this is very childish) his name keeps making me think of the French comedy show Brice de Nice. I'm sure Im pronouncing the Dutch totally wrong 

(https://www.lepoint.fr/images/2016/10/19/5784438lpw-5784507-article-jpg_3847060_980x426.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 08, 2019, 02:24:19 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 07, 2019, 04:12:40 AM
Thanks for pointing out Mr Urbaniak, I ordered the CD (after not a little battling with the website >:() after being impressed by this one which I found on Qobuz. He's a "studious" musician rather than a flamboyant one I'd say, which is all to the good in my book. He also makes interesting programmes. And likes the sort of organs I like - small, colourful.

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/4250976100303.jpg)

I do like that CD a lot, but need to revisit it. We all have similar tastes in organs :)

Sietze de Vries' Tunder Christ lag in Todesbanden on his Roskilde CD is stunning! It's warm and articulate, rather unlike the more austere and forbidding Syre recording that we previously obsessed over. One recording of his that I'll recommend.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 08, 2019, 03:06:16 AM
Yes I'm listening on youtube to Brice de Nice play some Scheidemann at Roskilde and warm and articulate - or rather, articulated - are probably the right words, ah well, that's another CD to import from Holland some time.

Talking of articulated, have you heard Chorzempa's Leipzig Chorales? They're on Spotify etc, and I've enjoyed exploring his challenging vision.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 10, 2019, 09:15:19 PM
The renaissance organ at St Julien du sault was restored 10 years ago, tuned in some sort of mean tone, nicely represented on this recording by Luc Paganon, you'll find it on Qobuz and similar places.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51CfrbY%2BAjL._SS500.jpg)

It sounds velvety and colourful.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 11, 2019, 04:34:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 10, 2019, 09:15:19 PM
The renaissance organ at St Julien du sault was restored 10 years ago, tuned in some sort of mean tone, nicely represented on this recording by Luc Paganon, you'll find it on Qobuz and similar places.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51CfrbY%2BAjL._SS500.jpg)

It sounds velvety and colourful.

Robert bates did a recording on it! Somehow, I'm having a hard time enjoying it, though, just not exciting or eccentric enough.
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/3pvgr.scms9/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1137-2.jpg)

I'll check this one out - along with the Chorzempa.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 11, 2019, 10:07:11 PM
I just checked out the Chorzempa - listened to my favorites, BWV 651 (Fantasia super Komm heiliger Geist), An Wasserflussen Babylon, O Lamm Gottes, and Vor deinen Tron. It is wonderful!

He takes his time and doesn't really try to build tension or push the music along. You are simply in heaven, no rush, even for the whole 10 minutes of O lamm Gottes. Although his articulation is consistently quite detached, there is still a wonderful sense on singing, and the overall effect is gently moving.

Doesn't hurt that it is played on the charming organ of Lebuinuskerk Deventer, mostly built in the 19th century (but in sort of an evolved Dutch Baroque style) but with pipework dating back to the time when Sweelinck was baptized at the very church in the 16th century.

I wonder what you find "challenging" about it? Usually something too austere or too eccentric would be "challenging" (in a good way), but I don't this was for me.

I will cross-post this in the Bach organ thread, so we can move the discussion there.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 12, 2019, 07:53:01 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 05, 2019, 11:54:47 PM
Another source of temptation! This is a very unique and eccentric organ, in Elshout's words it "Opened a whole new unknown world".
(https://www.organroxx.com/web/image/product.template/1942/image?unique=dcc3e0d)
https://www.organroxx.com/en_US/shop/product/the-renaisance-organ-of-olkusz-1942
(Beware of that first Sweelinck sample; we have those chirpy polish cimbels in full blast)

I think this is fabulous, thanks for making me aware of it!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 14, 2019, 09:49:24 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61qokWUplQL._SY355_.jpg)

Specifically this one:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/2486742363c394f0c7c9e54f96cb2ae8d1e2a08b)

Listening to Leon Berben play on the early 17th-century Scherer organ in Tangermünde. It is a marvelous organ that makes almost anything played on it sound good.

Berben likes to drive the music forward, so to say - high tempi and lots of ornaments, sort of like Koopman but more soft-spoken and supple, less caffeine. He walks a fine line, sometime it works wonders, such as in the Ricercar, and really brings out the abundant ecstasy that I love so much in Sweelinck's music. But in other times it just sounds.. rushed and dead. (E.g. in the famous Fantasia Cromatica).

Olkusz feels like a more eccentric cousin to the Tangermünde organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 14, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 10, 2019, 09:15:19 PM
The renaissance organ at St Julien du sault was restored 10 years ago, tuned in some sort of mean tone, nicely represented on this recording by Luc Paganon, you'll find it on Qobuz and similar places.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51CfrbY%2BAjL._SS500.jpg)

It sounds velvety and colourful.

After listening to the Paganon, I think I realized why the Robert Bates was hard for me to listen to. There's something off about this organ, it makes very beautiful sounds but seems a bit "faceless", don't you think, when compared to other similar small organs (e.g. Uttum, Krewerd, Ostönnen.. I could name a lot). Just that it doesn't really have a definite personality that shines through in the music.

I might change my opinion on this, I can't really judge an organ by 2 recordings, can I?

The "Fantaisie du 8e ton sur le Regina Caeli" by Racquet is great! What a surprise.

Apparently the pipes in the trumpet stop in this organ is a copy of the ones at Uttum!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 22, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gz0SQtANbsU/maxresdefault.jpg)

Mattheson, in his comparison between Scheidemann and Jacob Praetorius (both students of Sweelinck) mentioned how Scheidemann had a fairly easy-going personality, and this was reflected in his cheerful and spirited music.

Well, I don't hear that in this disc, volume 2 of Naxos' Scheidemann series. Instead what Nelson gives us is intimate and introspective Scheidemann, quite austere in playing and registrations. I like it.

Johann Kortkamp described that Praetorius played in a way that not only made people admire his playing, but also the organ itself. That I always take to be a benchmark in good organ playing. And I think this disc does it well - while it is a far cry from the big Hamburg organs Praetorius and Scheidemann played on (It's probably more like something that we would find in the church of a Northern German dorf in the middle of nowhere), the Brombaugh organ sounds beautiful under Nelson's hands and certainly isn't another faceless beast.

I'm wondering, though, where I should go for flashier, more extrovert Scheidemann.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 02:11:05 PM
Doeselaar of course a priori, but much more to my taste Klaus Eichhorn.

.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 22, 2019, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 02:11:05 PM
Doeselaar of course a priori, but much more to my taste Klaus Eichhorn.

.

Yes, Doeselaar.

And what about Regis Allard?

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 22, 2019, 02:21:20 PM
Yes, Doeselaar.

And what about Regis Allard?

I haven't heard Allard, I'll try to make some time later today. Have you are anyone else heard this one from Berben which has five pieces by Scheidemann?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OoVtWBZkL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 23, 2019, 01:18:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 08:54:14 PM
I haven't heard Allard, I'll try to make some time later today. Have you are anyone else heard this one from Berben which has five pieces by Scheidemann?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OoVtWBZkL.jpg)

I own it. Havem't listened to it since long. Have a distant memory of some much too strict and tense playing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 23, 2019, 02:58:27 AM
Yes well that wouldn't be surprising. He seems to me to have got better, less tense, recently.

(Some piano people say the same about Marc André Hamelin, and that he only started to relax when he found a partner, I don't know of the same happened to Berben! )
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 23, 2019, 08:23:31 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 02:11:05 PM
Doeselaar of course a priori, but much more to my taste Klaus Eichhorn.

.

Doeselaar, to me, is more hot-blooded :)

I dug out the Berben (which I have, but also forgot about). I don't hear anything too tense in here. Instead it is 70 minutes of pleasant music - I might like it more than his Sweelinck set! I'll write more about it later.

Scheidemann is represented on this disc mostly by his weighty Praeludiums, something that I can imagine him launching into with great gusto as a prelude to a service, but not the supposedly sunny and witty chorale fantasias and variations.

I have to dig out Eichhorn and Allard.

Also, this one:
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0760623211367.jpg)
Seems interesting, but MDG strikes again - not on spotify, itunes etc. yet.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 23, 2019, 11:46:05 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 23, 2019, 08:23:31 PM
Doeselaar, to me, is more hot-blooded :)

I dug out the Berben (which I have, but also forgot about). I don't hear anything too tense in here. Instead it is 70 minutes of pleasant music - I might like it more than his Sweelinck set! I'll write more about it later.

Scheidemann is represented on this disc mostly by his weighty Praeludiums, something that I can imagine him launching into with great gusto as a prelude to a service, but not the supposedly sunny and witty chorale fantasias and variations.

I have to dig out Eichhorn and Allard.

Also, this one:
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0760623211367.jpg)
Seems interesting, but MDG strikes again - not on spotify, itunes etc. yet.

Ah, it's out. I have the Weckmann.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 23, 2019, 11:49:54 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 23, 2019, 08:23:31 PM

but not the supposedly sunny and witty chorale fantasias and variations.


What about Coudurier? That's sunny, don't know about witty. Folksy maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/v/T33Z3FYedjA
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 23, 2019, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 23, 2019, 11:46:05 PM
Ah, it's out. I have the Weckmann.

How's the Weckmann?

Judging from the samples, it seems like a nice recording. Playing that is solid and takes the safe side of the road but is bolstered by a wonderful organ (The Sesquialtera stop in verse 2 of Komm Heiliger Geist really sings!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 24, 2019, 01:38:19 AM
I've only heard the fantasies and magnificat. This is a recording to have for the sound engineering and the organ. The interpretations work at a sensual level, very often like a large chamber ensemble, he's inspired about the registrations. At the level of interpretation he's  a controller and you know it when you're listening, academic, buttoned up if you want me to be bitchy, not a passionate free spirit on fire possessed by duende. No, not that.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 26, 2019, 12:06:34 PM
Mmm, very refined concert by Bine Bryndorf on the Martini/Groningen,NL organ this evening... she took the listeners through the church year (from Advent to Pentecost) with Bach and a few predecessors, like Tunder, Praetorius, Reincken and Buxtehude.
The lady was obviously very happy, too, all smiles and bowing to the instrument many times afterwards.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on June 26, 2019, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Marc on June 26, 2019, 12:06:34 PM
Mmm, very refined concert by Bine Bryndorf on the Martini/Groningen,NL organ this evening... she took the listeners through the church year (from Advent to Pentecost) with Bach and a few predecessors, like Tunder, Praetorius, Reincken and Buxtehude.
The lady was obviously very happy, too, all smiles and bowing to the instrument many times afterwards.

Lucky you.  :) Yes, she has matured with time, as exemplified by her Bruhns CD from Roskilde.

What did she play by Reinken?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on June 26, 2019, 07:47:23 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 26, 2019, 01:13:38 PM
Lucky you.  :) Yes, she has matured with time, as exemplified by her Bruhns CD from Roskilde.

What did she play by Reinken?

This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JD7eXqW_S4

Bryndorf picked flute stops, though. Sounded awesome.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 27, 2019, 09:32:40 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 11, 2019, 04:34:30 PM
Robert bates did a recording on it! Somehow, I'm having a hard time enjoying it, though, just not exciting or eccentric enough.
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/3pvgr.scms9/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1137-2.jpg)



Yes, I agree, I hope you have heard this by the way - no shortage of eccentricity in this one.

(https://img.discogs.com/7c7aMB7HI6bryx-VBchxXFYadrA=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6855430-1428069320-8237.jpeg.jpg)

There are other thing by her available - Bux and Bach - I'd be interested to know what you think. There's also lots of stuff on YouTube, piano.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on July 04, 2019, 08:01:19 AM
We've talked about lena Jacobsen before! I think this is her least eccentric recording :)
I'm still interested in seeing her essay on Baroque Rhetoric that she bases her playing style on.
I still find her style hard to listen to. ("Trigger finger?")

Lots of material on her youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/lenajacobson/videos?disable_polymer=1
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on July 04, 2019, 08:13:36 AM
(https://outhere-music.com/cache/im/album_portrait/uploads/albums/514b06ec8a095.jpeg?1.0.1@2x.1)

Still my favorite recording on the Compenius organ. You know I'm a sucker for these things.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on July 08, 2019, 11:45:59 AM
Due to a lack of spare time, I don't visit as much organ concertos as I used to... but this evening was splendid with Cor Ardesch on the Schnitger/Timpe organ in the Der Aa Kerk, Groningen, NL. Colourful, to the point and very refined, with Buxtehude, Muffat and Bach, and a modern improvisation of the Lutheran "Vater unser". One of those concerts that can never last too long...

Compared to other organists, he made quite a lot of use of the Timpe stops (Bovenwerk) and it sounded just all right to me. After all, Timpe was still part of the Schnitger/Hinsz/Freytag school, and Ardesch made the three 'Werke' blend perfectly well together.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on July 12, 2019, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on June 08, 2019, 02:24:19 AM
Sietze de Vries' Tunder Christ lag in Todesbanden on his Roskilde CD is stunning! It's warm and articulate, rather unlike the more austere and forbidding Syre recording that we previously obsessed over. One recording of his that I'll recommend.

Just re-listened to it. Now I think it's way too happy to be Tunder - it's beautiful, but his style misses out a bit on the deep mysticism that makes Tunder (particularly this chorale fantasy) attractive to me!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André on July 12, 2019, 06:08:51 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cAYNfJYpL.jpg)

A top recommendation. I posted comments in the WAYL thread.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 12, 2019, 10:49:10 PM
In my experience Serge Schoonbroodt is a  hit and miss organist. I've been  enjoying his flamboyant Boyvin and Grigny, but the Titlouse is somehow much less inspiring for me. I haven't heard him play the très petits maîtres like Corette.

Anyone heard any of these CDs, or indeed the organs?

https://www.dkunert.de/Die-Stumm/Weimbs-Orgel-in-Zell-an-der-Mosel

(https://www.dkunert.de/WebRoot/Store12/Shops/62923526/5748/5292/53BF/27FE/926B/C0A8/2BBC/C7BA/3574420000201_m.jpg)

Bach - Praeludium in a moll
Bach - O Mensch bewein dein Sünde gross
Erbach - Canon Noni Toni
Buxtehude - Vater unser im Himmelreich
Buxtehude - Passacaglia d-moll
Buxtehude - Nun komm der Heiden Heiland
Paumann - Mit ganzem Willen wünsch ich dir
Aus dem Klavierbuch der Regina Clara im Hoff - Bassa Imperiale
Scheidt - Es wolle Gott uns gnädig sein
Bruhns - Praeludium in e-moll
Speth - Toccata Quarta
Tunder - Canzona in d-dur
Bach - Nun komm der Heiden Heiland
Buxtehude - Ciacona in e-moll
Bach - Jesu meine Freude
Bach - O Welt ich muss dich lassen
Glocken

https://www.dkunert.de/St-Pantaleon-Frankena

(https://www.dkunert.de/WebRoot/Store12/Shops/62923526/5088/25B2/3F2C/D2C8/D259/C0A8/29B9/A78B/4028222850032_vs_m.JPG)

Murschhauser, Franz Xaver Anton - Primi toni
Murschhauser, Franz Xaver Anton - Praeambulum - 5 Fugen - Finale
Anonymus - Cortege Final
Anonymus - Flos vernalis
Cesare Borgo - Canzon Ottava "La Colombana"
Pieter Cornet - Tantum ergo
Johann Anton Kobrich - Sieben Pastorellen
Girolamo Frescobaldi - Passacagli
Johann Kaspar Kerll - Ricercata - Canzona
Simon Lohet - Fuga Quarta - Fuga Quinta
Thomas Babou - Pièce de Monsieur Babou
Johann Gottfried Walther - Jesu, meine Freude
Henry Dumont - Allemande
Paul Siefert - Frantasia Primi Toni g-moll à 3
Mulliner Book - Pavane (Newman)
Joseph Lederer - Praeambulum g-moll
Johann Ernst Eberlin - Toccata Sexta
Anonymus - My Lady Carey´s dompe
Glocken St. Pantaleon


(https://www.dkunert.de/WebRoot/Store12/Shops/62923526/5748/4FEF/4F2E/046E/D29F/C0A8/2BB9/E2A4/3574420001024_m.jpg)

https://www.dkunert.de/J-S-Bach


Pièce d'orgue in G BWV 572
"Wer nun den lieben Gott lässt walten" BWV 691
Fuga in a BWV 958
Partita "O Gott, du frommer Gott" BWV 767
"Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier" BWV 731
Fantasia und Fuge in a BWV 904
Toccata und Fuge in d BWV 538
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 12, 2019, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on July 12, 2019, 01:32:35 PM
Just re-listened to it. Now I think it's way too happy to be Tunder - it's beautiful, but his style misses out a bit on the deep mysticism that makes Tunder (particularly this chorale fantasy) attractive to me!

What do you think of Pamela Ruiter Feenstra? She's got mysticism in spades.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 13, 2019, 02:53:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 12, 2019, 10:49:10 PM
In my experience Serge Schoonbroodt is a  hit and miss organist. I've been  enjoying his flamboyant Boyvin and Grigny, but the Titlouse is somehow much less inspiring for me. I haven't heard him play the très petits maîtres like Corette.

Anyone heard any of these CDs, or indeed the organs?


As you write, he is a hit or miss. And I can't say, that I have been an avid collector of his recordings. Yet I own six of them: Sweelinck, Titelouze, Grigny, Fischer, Chaumont and Bach vol.2. I haven't heard them since long. Of these I recall the Sweelinck and the Grigny as being somewhat special, the former because of the mean tone organ used, the latter partly because of his beautiful singing. The Bach didn't do it for me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 17, 2019, 07:58:42 AM
(https://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/img_cd_sz/_w150/cd_25717.jpg)

Why on earth should the Poitiers Cliquot be an organ of predilection for Grigny? Olivier Houette is the fourth to have recorded lots and lots of his music there, and doing so he risks comparison with some serious organists - Alain and Schoonbroodt and Isoir.  And I just saw that that even Ewald Kooiman seems to have played Grigny there for a recording which has now disappeared without trace.

I refuse to do comparisons.

What I can say is that, the organ is well captured here IF you want a recording which communicates a sense of the cathedral walls and ceiling. His playing is often reflective, always noble and sometimes astonishingly imposing  - I nearly jumped out of my seat because of how he plays  the grand jeu in Veni Creator Spiritus. This is NOT a recording for people who live in houses with thin walls or for people with titchy ickle speakers.

I'm glad to have it, you can never have too much Grigny in your life.

(The sounds of the Poitiers Cliquot  here makes me think of the wonderful Anttegnati that Cera uses for Andrea Gabrieli)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 20, 2019, 02:45:49 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81FZGsJuz3L._SS500_.jpg)

The organ at Sens is clean sounding but far from faceless, 18th century and restored to some sort of authentic condition towards the end of the 20th century, maybe this recording was in celebration of that restoration, I don't know. Kirnberger III, so it could be worse.  Anne Chapelin Dubar choses colourful registers and plays in a refined and fluid way. She also has the knack of making the melodies sound eloquent and expressive. The sound world is often small scale, chamber music almost.  The result is sensual, you catch yourself thinking "oh how beautiful, tender, delicate!" often, but rarely if ever "oh how magisterial, imposing, flamboyant." though a bit of flamboyance is unavoidable in the dialogues.  No singing in alternatim, but played like this the organ music all on its own is totally satisfying.

Without wishing to be sexist, I want to say that this is a feminine performance, I know that's nonsense, but there you are. I'd also like to suggest that it shows a Grigny who is partly indebted to Renaissance musical values, which is original maybe.

Anne Chapelin Dubar was a harpsichord specialist, a student of Huguette Dreyfus and worked with Blandine Verlet, though she did also work with Michel Chappuis, and just maybe you can hear the fact that she was imbued in French harpsichord music - Chambonnières and Marchand - in these organ performances.

It is very well recorded on disc, the Spotify transfer less appealing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 23, 2019, 09:37:39 PM
(https://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/F10226.jpg)

And to give you an idea of the type of animal we're dealing with, here's the organ

(http://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/226_varhany-man-ped.jpg).   (http://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/226_varhany.jpg)

A 2017 release from Jaroslav Tuma. Here's the tracklist

Quote1. Cabanilles (1644-1712): Tiento XVII De "Pange lingua" in D
2 Johann Krieger (1651-1735): Ciacona in g
3 Gregorio Strozzi (1615–1687): Toccata quarta per L'elevatione
4 Johann Pachelbel (1653-1706): Chorální variace "Herzlich tut mich verlangen"
5 Michelangelo Rossi (1602-1656): Toccata Settima
6 Johann Caspar Kerll (1627-1693): Ciacona in d
7 Girolamo Frescobaldi (1583-1643): Toccata tertia
8 Georg Muffat (1653-1704): Passacaglia in g

In his notes he said that he tried music contemporary with the organ's construction (second half of the c18) but found that earlier music sounded better. He notes that it is just a fact about organs that their construction often harks back to music of the past, and this is just obvious on this organ. To me it has some of the colour of one of those Thuringian instruments I like so much!  He also says that although the pieces he chose often don't sound full enough on rustic organs like this, this one somehow brought out the counterpoint in a really interesting way.

Anyway, so be it: it is well worth hearing, at least for the organ, and it will be a special treat for people who aren't repelled by Tuma's characteristically weighty style (eg the Muffat). It made me feel in the mood for a mini private Jaroslav Tuma organ recordings festival, he's someone with ideas, things to say.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 24, 2019, 09:36:19 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 23, 2019, 09:37:39 PM
(https://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/F10226.jpg)

And to give you an idea of the type of animal we're dealing with, here's the organ

(http://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/226_varhany-man-ped.jpg).   (http://www.arta.cz/arta/site/Image/226_varhany.jpg)

A 2017 release from Jaroslav Tuma. Here's the tracklist

In his notes he said that he tried music contemporary with the organ's construction (second half of the c18) but found that earlier music sounded better. He notes that it is just a fact about organs that their construction often harks back to music of the past, and this is just obvious on this organ. To me it has some of the colour of one of those Thuringian instruments I like so much!  He also says that although the pieces he chose often don't sound full enough on rustic organs like this, this one somehow brought out the counterpoint in a really interesting way.

Anyway, so be it: it is well worth hearing, at least for the organ, and it will be a special treat for people who aren't repelled by Tuma's characteristically weighty style (eg the Muffat). It made me feel in the mood for a mini private Jaroslav Tuma organ recordings festival, he's someone with ideas, things to say.

This contains a particularly impressive piece by Pachelbel, a big set of variations, so much so that I've just ordered his Pachelbel recording.


(https://li-music-alexanderstreet.secure.footprint.net/ioda/287409/287409.jpg?token=5095febb147d1eabc0926)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 24, 2019, 11:09:12 PM
(https://www.boeijengamusic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/c02b730cab454942d65375f640b056d1/v/m/vms160.jpg)

Extremely impressive workout for the subwoofers here by Anne Chapelin playing Louis Marchand, the organ (Carentin, Normandy) was built in the first decade of the c19, restored at the end of the c20 "sur le modèle de la facture du 18ème siècle, pour réaliser un instrument de 37 jeux sur 4 claviers et pédalier, d'esthétique classique française" sounds fabulous in this music! I feel that Louis Marchand is a bit undervalued, contrapuntally the music is rich, and yes it is brash and it is flamboyant, but I don't think it's too formulaic or predictable. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 26, 2019, 08:35:38 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2019, 10:34:15 PM
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/04/imgL/119142723.jpg)

The organ is very distinctive, husky dusky. It's one of the best organs I've ever heard for whispering.

Imagine the moon rising over a lake shrouded in mist, that's the sort of light and shade that Cyril Pallaud's creates on his organ in Sierentz. He has a way of phrasing the music which makes it sound almost improvised; the registrations are chosen to create a dusky blend of sounds.

This quasi impressionist interpretation of Muffat's Apparatus is evocative, geared most towards colour than to counterpoint, it reminds me in fact of what I like most in Muffat's concertos.

Revisiting this today I find myself in complete agreement with my former self

In many ways this isn't successful. It's not well recorded, the action is sometimes noisy, the registrations chosen can sometimes blend a bit too much, the acoustics of the hall means that the music blurs sometimes, the organ is anachronistic. But . . .

. . . it is, I think, trying to do something interesting, really interesting. Cyril Pallaud is trying to introduce light and shade into the music - so that, rather than being a constantly brightly illuminated hit of bravura, the toccatas acquire a new additional dimension of relief, a dimension of mystery.

This is exactly what I hear in Muffat's concertos, which I rarely hear in his organ music.

So despite the very significant problems with the recording, I feel rather excited by it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 30, 2019, 04:47:52 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Dq2SkBaQL._SX466_.jpg)

A colourful and relatively light bohemian organ at Doksy, played here by Tuma in what is for me an attractive programme of early baroque  pieces. As with the Dubrovnik organ mentioned above, and not the case, unfortunately with his Pachelbel CD, Tuma is at his best when the organ isn't too big and heavy. He plays with a panache which he doesn't always find. Very glad to have this one.

The booklet has a journalist's essay which is a joy to read, not scholarly but exuding a love for the organ and the music and indeed the organist - The essay has made me wonder whether there's a translation of Michael Praetorius's Syntagma Musicum online.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 02, 2019, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 30, 2019, 04:47:52 AM
. . . not the case, unfortunately with his Pachelbel CD, Tuma is at his best when the organ isn't too big and heavy.

This was a totally unjust comment, both about the organ (which is colourful) and about the organist (who is in his element in Pachelbel I suspect) You need soft ears, ears which are flexible enough to be able to listen to the music. Last week my ears were too hard, today they've liquefied. Tuma, Pachelbel, Kladruby - recommendable to anyone curious about Pachelbel's challenging music

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/63/6e/2d/mzi.nmaomxlv.jpg/600x600bf.png)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 04, 2019, 11:17:28 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PO7170.jpg)

Intimiate and lively Buxtehude, fleet-footed in a suitable acoustic. Consistently great in "grand" prelude and fugues, but the more introspective chorale preludes can feel a little like they were irreverently tossed off.

But I think it's an attractive recording because the "humanness" of it, especially on such an "inhumane" instrument like the organ. 

Also, wonderful organ - certainly full of character and not faceless!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 05, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 04, 2019, 11:17:28 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PO7170.jpg)

Intimiate and lively Buxtehude, fleet-footed in a suitable acoustic. Consistently great in "grand" prelude and fugues, but the more introspective chorale preludes can feel a little like they were irreverently tossed off.

But I think it's an attractive recording because the "humanness" of it, especially on such an "inhumane" instrument like the organ. 

Also, wonderful organ - certainly full of character and not faceless!

Have you heard this? I think it's your sort of organ

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61KmMh1UsjL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2019, 04:54:44 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513GTdtNpiL.jpg)

Very pleased to have this one. Characterful organ well recorded, rare very early music played with brio and lots of variety so you can listen for a long time without feeling saturated,  short but scholarly essay on the process of turning the score into music. Apparently it was common to play these motet transcriptions  in services when there was no choir to sing them. Some are quite substantial. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 10, 2019, 06:08:08 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2019, 04:54:44 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513GTdtNpiL.jpg)

Very pleased to have this one. Characterful organ well recorded, rare very early music played with brio and lots of variety so you can listen for a long time without feeling saturated,  short but scholarly essay on the process of turning the score into music. Apparently it was common to play these motet transcriptions  in services when there was no choir to sing them. Some are quite substantial.

I'm familiar with this one, but not the one you posted earlier by Reinhard Jaud. Where can I find it?
I think Reinhard Jaud also has some recordings on the Ebert organ in the NM Sweelinck set.

I remember that one of the main authorities on early keyboard (Willi Apel?) once described all old keyboard tablulatures to be "littered" with uninteresting intabulations. But I think we really should be paying much more attention to them, often times I find them to be more interesting than original compositons! (E.g. in the Jan z Lublin book, where it's probably 30% original and 70% intabulations)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 10, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
I've been thinking of getting this one, just based on the meagre samples on CDbaby.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vfFLY0dsL._SY355_.jpg)

Gwendolyn Toth also has recordings at the early 16th-century Oosthuilzen and Krewerd organs, Schnitger at Noordbroek, some other ones that are quite wonderful. She also doesn't shy away from vocal intabulations.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2019, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 10, 2019, 06:08:08 PM
I'm familiar with this one, but not the one you posted earlier by Reinhard Jaud. Where can I find it?
I think Reinhard Jaud also has some recordings on the Ebert organ in the NM Sweelinck set.

I remember that one of the main authorities on early keyboard (Willi Apel?) once described all old keyboard tablulatures to be "littered" with uninteresting intabulations. But I think we really should be paying much more attention to them, often times I find them to be more interesting than original compositons! (E.g. in the Jan z Lublin book, where it's probably 30% original and 70% intabulations)

Yes it was the Sweelinck which alerted me to him. I'll send you the orf disc later, it looks like it's become rareish. He has an  LP which hasn't been ever transferred, all on the Innsbruck Ebert - he must work there I suppose.

That comment about old tablatures sounds like the sort of thing Willi Apel would have written and in a sense it's true - I mean if you look from the point of view of harmony and counterpoint. But some of them are not uninteresting melodically and rhythmically - like troubadour sequences in that respect.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2019, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 10, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
I've been thinking of getting this one, just based on the meagre samples on CDbaby.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vfFLY0dsL._SY355_.jpg)

Gwendolyn Toth also has recordings at the early 16th-century Oosthuilzen and Krewerd organs, Schnitger at Noordbroek, some other ones that are quite wonderful. She also doesn't shy away from vocal intabulations.

They're on Spotify, and I remember enjoying the  Oosthuilzen and Krewerd CD. Part of the problem is the Spotify sound, I maybe should download it from CD baby, the CD itself is quite expensive. Have you heard her Scheidemann?. And more importantly have you heard Hans van Nieuwkoop at Oosthuizen, I like that one very much!

https://www.youtube.com/v/KVHGcgYTX5Q

This looks as though it could be interesting, but too steep for me

https://www.amazon.com/Hans-van-Nieuwkoop-live-Contrapunctus/dp/B000LH6XJ4
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 11, 2019, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2019, 09:29:10 PM
They're on Spotify, and I remember enjoying the  Oosthuilzen and Krewerd CD. Part of the problem is the Spotify sound, I maybe should download it from CD baby, the CD itself is quite expensive. Have you heard her Scheidemann?. And more importantly have you heard Hans van Nieuwkoop at Oosthuizen, I like that one very much!

https://www.youtube.com/v/KVHGcgYTX5Q

This looks as though it could be interesting, but too steep for me

https://www.amazon.com/Hans-van-Nieuwkoop-live-Contrapunctus/dp/B000LH6XJ4

I have only heard the recordings on Spotify (Noordbroek with a memorable BWV 544, and Omlandia Allegra or something like that - Zeerijp and Krewerd). But the other CDs seem even more promising.
It's a shame that CD baby is mp3 quality only for downloads.

I've heard both van Niewkoop recordings before, the Alkmaar recording via Organroxx - somehow, the Oosthuizen one sort of bored me. But the Weckmann magnificat on the Alkmaar recording is one of the best I've heard - played with so much urgency and fire. I'd like to find the disc too.

I would be interested in the Reinhard Jaud. I don't know if you've seen this video before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Paxp2weMy8
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 12, 2019, 12:37:28 AM
There's also this - it's available affordably in amazon.de but they won't ship out of Germany

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IxQ7kptlL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on August 18, 2019, 07:39:00 AM
Dunno if I posted this clip earlier, but here's a very easy to understand (for everyone) demonstration of an organ.
Sietze de Vries demonstrating, in his own relaxed way, the Schnitger et al organ of the Martinikerk, Groningen, NL.
Includes English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/v/7mDf2JgQei0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2019, 08:45:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 12, 2019, 12:37:28 AM
There's also this - it's available affordably in amazon.de but they won't ship out of Germany

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IxQ7kptlL._SL1500_.jpg)

I've just ordered this, thanks to a kind friend in Germany. I like what I've heard of Erbach - Leonhardt recorded a piece as did Tachezi - so a whole CD of his music sounds like it could be a good thing - it'll be a good opportunity to  renew acquaintance with Hans Leo Hassler too, since according to wiki they were connected, I check what Abel has to say about Erbach later.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 02, 2019, 07:06:52 PM
Brillian Classics issued a new cd of Lubeck (and other CDs) by Manuel Tomadin. The CD includes previously unknown pieces as well. Lubeck's compositions are very modern and progressive. The recording quality is very good and the sound of organ is great. I love the CD.


Complete Harpsichord & Organ Music https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CNC328P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZhDBDbQ0V0XG2
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 03, 2019, 02:10:28 AM
And I've not been listening to Lubeck, but I have been enjoying the music of another composer who knew the Hamburg Schnitger, and this one's a real rarity, Johann Praetorius. As far as I know there's only one recording of his music, and it's on an organ which is really too late, and it's very far from being a particularly colourful one. Nevertheless I've found a lot to appreciate here, and Flamme presents the music with enormous clarity. The sense of invention and movement means that I never get bored. And while it's not sensual it has its own austere poetry.

What we have here is a collection of long choral preludes, and I'd have thought that anyone who enjoys The Leipzig Chorales or CU3 would enjoy this CD.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ICpXch3iL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on September 03, 2019, 02:17:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2019, 02:10:28 AM
And I've not been listening to Lubeck, but I have been enjoying the music of another composer who knew the Hamburg Schnitger, and this one's a real rarity, Johann Praetorius. As far as I know there's only one recording of his music, and it's on an organ which is really too late, and it's very far from being a particularly colourful one. Nevertheless I've found a lot to appreciate here, and Flamme presents the music with enormous clarity. The sense of invention and movement means that I never get bored. And while it's not sensual it has its own austere poetry.

What we have here is a collection of long choral preludes, and I'd have thought that anyone who enjoys The Leipzig Chorales or CU3 would enjoy this CD.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ICpXch3iL.jpg)

Flamme is an organist, who doesn't appeal to me at all. In fact I dislike most of his recordings. I disagree with his style. And I am not the only one on this site who thinks so. But you are right, there are not many recordings around of Johann Praetorius.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 03, 2019, 02:26:59 AM
Quote from: "Harry" on September 03, 2019, 02:17:21 AM
Flamme is an organist, who doesn't appeal to me at all. In fact I dislike most of his recordings. I disagree with his style. And I am not the only one on this site who thinks so. But you are right, there are not many recordings around of Johann Praetorius.

Exactly, I'm a glass half full person. And in fact in that one, while I'm sure there are other organists who could go deeper, and could find more poetry in the music, and probably there are better organs, he's not bad at all.

There could be a really fabulous recording dedicated to Johann Praetorius, I'm sure of it. Flamme's isn't it, but it's good enough to sense the potential of the music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on September 03, 2019, 02:38:59 AM
Thanks to Mandryka and Harry for the discussion above!

They have also reminded that I recently discovered this performance on YouTube of Julius Reubke's Sonata on Psalm 94:

https://www.youtube.com/v/b0MLJyMI-f0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 05, 2019, 10:36:20 AM
I just want to make a post in honour of Franz Raml. His Scheidt Vol 2 and Pachelbel Vol 1 have been giving me so much pleasure recently. He's very serious, which suits me, but there's also a great sense of elan. The recordings are fabulously engineered, they give the impression of the space of the cathedrals very well, and that gives the music a sort of majesty, a grandeur.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Yau3gSztL.jpg)     (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91a1bog4lDL._SS500_.jpg)

Because of Raml and Rubsam I'm really starting to appreciate Pachelbel more.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on September 05, 2019, 10:44:01 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 05, 2019, 10:36:20 AM
I just want to make a post in honour of Franz Raml. His Scheidt Vol 2 and Pachelbel Vol 1 have been giving me so much pleasure recently. He's very serious, which suits me, but there's also a great sense of elan. The recordings are fabulously engineered, they give the impression of the space of the cathedrals very well, and that gives the music a sort of majesty, a grandeur.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Yau3gSztL.jpg)     (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91a1bog4lDL._SS500_.jpg)

Because of Raml and Rubsam I'm really starting to appreciate Pachelbel more.

Have both recordings, and I agree with your findings!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on September 05, 2019, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: Cato on September 03, 2019, 02:38:59 AM
Thanks to Mandryka and Harry for the discussion above!

They have also reminded that I recently discovered this performance on YouTube of Julius Reubke's Sonata on Psalm 94:

https://www.youtube.com/v/b0MLJyMI-f0

Thanks for the link. While not my favourite performance perhaps, it is one of my favourite organ pieces and wonderful to see it being performed.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 11, 2019, 09:26:37 AM
A couple of recent acquisitions which are both of 'concert' organ repertoire - very different instruments and locations;

[asin]B00000E4XB[/asin]

perfect Carlo Curley fayre - flamboyant  and technically brilliant.  Just an enjoyable listen on a fine church instrument.

Then

[asin]B0007ZBDS6[/asin]

this was the first recording of the Albert Hall organ after its (relatively) recent major restoration.  I like the actual recording more than some reviewers.  Not as obviously overwhelming sonically as some recordings but still very impressive.  As indeed - of course - is the superb playing of Weir.  She paces Lizst's mighty Fantasia and Fugue on "Ad nos ad salutarem undam" wonderfully.  I don't listen to organ recitals all that often but enjoyed both of these a lot.....
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 09, 2019, 07:50:09 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61jEF1BufCL._SX342_QL70_.jpg)

According to france-orgue this is recorded on a recently restored c19 organ, at Francheville in Normandy, but don't let that put you off because I can assure you these Renaissance transcriptions, many published by Attaingnant, sound totally at home on the instrument. It's good to have another appealing keyboard rendition based on Attaingnant.


Juliette Grellety Bosviel has recorded a Froberger disc too, on a modern organ in the Paris suburbs, with things like lamentations and partitas, the sort of thing you expect to NOT to hear on an organ.

But somehow this attractive recording has caught my imagination more.



http://orgues-normandie.com/index.php?principal=fiche_orgue.php&id=208

https://actu.fr/normandie/francheville_27265/facteur-dorgue-francheville-on-dit-quil-faut-100-ans-apprendre-ce-metier_16670144.html

http://orgue.free.fr/of551.html

https://france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?org=Juliette+Grellety+Bosviel&cmd=Rechercher&zpg=dsq.fra.rch&pfrom=root
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: SimonNZ on October 17, 2019, 09:34:32 PM
A novice question:

How would you describe that non-scholarly grand and intimate tone that Marie Claire Alain has on her Bach recordings? Is it the settings she chooses or the organs themselves? Are there any other players that favor a similar sound?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on October 17, 2019, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: SimonNZ on October 17, 2019, 09:34:32 PM
A novice question:

How would you describe that non-scholarly grand and intimate tone that Marie Claire Alain has on her Bach recordings? Is it the settings she chooses or the organs themselves? Are there any other players that favor a similar sound?

Must admit I do not understand this entirely.

Alain has done 3 integrals, plus at least a handful 'loose' discs in between, on various organs with different sounds.
In general, I find her style semi-informed: not much legato, and the grand choral-free works mostly with full organ from start to end.
There's a more intimate sound in many of the chorale arrangements, which is quite normal: you pick a stop for the chorale melody, and mostly the accompaniment of the other voices is either 'only' accompaniment' or showing interesting polyphony/counterpoint. I find Alain's style in her chorale stuff a bit laid-back and dry, but it never struck me as very non-scholarly.

The sound Alain is extracting from f.i. the Schnitger et al organ in the Groningen Martinikerk, is not very different from the sound that many other organist prefer, as far as I can 'judge'. Grand when needed, and intimate when needed.
(Of course there are many different views on what is 'needed'.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 17, 2019, 11:28:28 PM
Quote from: SimonNZ on October 17, 2019, 09:34:32 PM
A novice question:

How would you describe that non-scholarly grand and intimate tone that Marie Claire Alain has on her Bach recordings? Is it the settings she chooses or the organs themselves? Are there any other players that favor a similar sound?

She said "J'ai travaillé dans la joie et j'ai été inondée. "
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2019, 11:33:36 AM
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9781316639832-uk.jpg)


QuoteThe organist seated at the king of instruments with thousands of pipes rising all around him, his hands busy at the manuals and his feet patrolling the pedalboard, is a symbol of musical self-sufficiency yielding musical possibilities beyond that of any other mode of solo performance. In this book, David Yearsley presents an interpretation of the significance of the oldest and richest of European instruments, by investigating the German origins of the uniquely independent use of the feet in organ playing. Delving into a range of musical, literary and visual sources, Bach's Feet demonstrates the cultural importance of this physically demanding mode of music-making, from the blind German organists of the fifteenth century, through the central contribution of Bach's music and legacy, to the newly-pedaling organists of the British Empire and the sinister visions of Nazi propagandists.

Anyone read this? I feel tempted.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2019, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2019, 11:33:36 AM
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9781316639832-uk.jpg)


Anyone read this? I feel tempted.

Great book that thankfully doesn't go too much into technical nitty-gritty organistic details.

Speaking of Yearsley, his Strungk recording really is wonderful! Particularly the Ricercar Sopra la morte della mia carissima Madre.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71uvLdBSvgL._SL1090_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on October 23, 2019, 03:04:59 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 20, 2019, 02:45:49 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81FZGsJuz3L._SS500_.jpg)

The organ at Sens is clean sounding but far from faceless, 18th century and restored to some sort of authentic condition towards the end of the 20th century, maybe this recording was in celebration of that restoration, I don't know. Kirnberger III, so it could be worse.  Anne Chapelin Dubar choses colourful registers and plays in a refined and fluid way. She also has the knack of making the melodies sound eloquent and expressive. The sound world is often small scale, chamber music almost.  The result is sensual, you catch yourself thinking "oh how beautiful, tender, delicate!" often, but rarely if ever "oh how magisterial, imposing, flamboyant." though a bit of flamboyance is unavoidable in the dialogues.  No singing in alternatim, but played like this the organ music all on its own is totally satisfying.

Without wishing to be sexist, I want to say that this is a feminine performance, I know that's nonsense, but there you are. I'd also like to suggest that it shows a Grigny who is partly indebted to Renaissance musical values, which is original maybe.

Anne Chapelin Dubar was a harpsichord specialist, a student of Huguette Dreyfus and worked with Blandine Verlet, though she did also work with Michel Chappuis, and just maybe you can hear the fact that she was imbued in French harpsichord music - Chambonnières and Marchand - in these organ performances.

It is very well recorded on disc, the Spotify transfer less appealing.

I wonder if you know you can change the audio quality of streaming on Spotify. I just learned of it by asking an audiophile who uses Spotify almost exclusively (I have been disenchanted with the sound until now). There is a little gear in the upper right corner of the site. Click on it and scroll down to Music Quality, et voilà. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2019, 03:14:47 AM
Quote from: Elk on October 23, 2019, 03:04:59 AM
I wonder if you know you can change the audio quality of streaming on Spotify. I just learned of it by asking an audiophile who uses Spotify almost exclusively (I have been disenchanted with the sound until now). There is a little gear in the upper right corner of the site. Click on it and scroll down to Music Quality, et voilà. Hope this helps.

Yes I know and I find that the premium service does not have satisfactory sound for hifi, it suits me fine if I want to just listen through my phone.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2019, 12:38:29 AM
Warning: tons of obscure organ-related drivel below.
I was reading articles by Koos van der Linde about Sweelinck's mid-16th century Hendrick Niehoff organ in the Oude kerk, and how there really aren't representative examples of this type of organ any more (e.g. Tangermünde is a generation too late and for a more advanced Northern German school, Leiden Pieterskerk has similar key ranges but is almost a century too late and represents the tastes around the time of van Noordt etc.).

Of course, KvdL points to the organ in St. Jacques Liège, a (almost faithful) reconstruction of Sweelinck's Oude kerk organ based on the little we know, plus or minus a few stops, as the only real "Sweelinck organ". Of course, he was organ consultant when it was built.

Anyways, I've been listening to the few recordings of this organ - Leon Berben's Sweelinck set, his "Der organistenmacher, and Schoonbroodt's Sweelinck.

Hassler's Magnificat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_VJy3DElY

Well, my God, this organ is a beast. Even a single Principal or flute is very, almost overwhelmingly strong, and the plenum - it roars. I think I understand when Georg Böhm meant when he asked the organ builder Dropa to preserve the "Brilliant sound" of his Niehoff organ in Lüneburg when it was altered to meet early 18th century standards.
I don't know what to make of it. There isn't much subtlety to any of the playing I've heard on it, and I'm suspicious that it's because of the instrument rather than the players. A hard beast to tame. But a stunning beast it is.

Buxtehude's Passacaglia, organo pleno: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFVYExphfs

Here in the US, John Brombaugh supposedly used original Niehoff pipes as reference when constructing and voicing his own organs. I've played Brombaugh organs, and his principals are very different (darker, more vocal, less chiff) than the ones at Liege - and to my taste more beautiful.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 25, 2019, 01:45:32 AM
It would be interesting to hear how Foccroulle plays the Liege organ, he recorded a disc on it here but it has completely disappeared without trace.

https://www.muziekweb.nl/Link/CLX2663/Orgues-de-Wallonie-Orgue-Saint-Jacques-de-Li%C3%A8ge
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 25, 2019, 06:34:10 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2019, 12:38:29 AM
Warning: tons of obscure organ-related drivel below.
I was reading articles by Koos van der Linde about Sweelinck's mid-16th century Hendrick Niehoff organ in the Oude kerk, and how there really aren't representative examples of this type of organ any more (e.g. Tangermünde is a generation too late and for a more advanced Northern German school, Leiden Pieterskerk has similar key ranges but is almost a century too late and represents the tastes around the time of van Noordt etc.).

Of course, KvdL points to the organ in St. Jacques Liège, a (almost faithful) reconstruction of Sweelinck's Oude kerk organ based on the little we know, plus or minus a few stops, as the only real "Sweelinck organ". Of course, he was organ consultant when it was built.

Anyways, I've been listening to the few recordings of this organ - Leon Berben's Sweelinck set, his "Der organistenmacher, and Schoonbroodt's Sweelinck.

Hassler's Magnificat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_VJy3DElY

Well, my God, this organ is a beast. Even a single Principal or flute is very, almost overwhelmingly strong, and the plenum - it roars. I think I understand when Georg Böhm meant when he asked the organ builder Dropa to preserve the "Brilliant sound" of his Niehoff organ in Lüneburg when it was altered to meet early 18th century standards.
I don't know what to make of it. There isn't much subtlety to any of the playing I've heard on it, and I'm suspicious that it's because of the instrument rather than the players. A hard beast to tame. But a stunning beast it is.

Buxtehude's Passacaglia, organo pleno: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFVYExphfs

Here in the US, John Brombaugh supposedly used original Niehoff pipes as reference when constructing and voicing his own organs. I've played Brombaugh organs, and his principals are very different (darker, more vocal, less chiff) than the ones at Liege - and to my taste more beautiful.

What is chiff? Is it the same as chuff?

Listening to CD 4 of Berben this afternoon, the one at Liège, there certainly isn't much subtlety in the playing, and not in Schoonbroodt neither!  But we've seen this sort of straight from the hip approach can be very attractive - Flamme in Michael Praetorius for example. The problem for me is that my expectations about what Sweelinck should sound like have been set by Winsemius, Leonhardt etc - I want solemnity please, authentic or not.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2019, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 25, 2019, 06:34:10 AM
What is chiff? Is it the same as chuff?

Listening to CD 4 of Berben this afternoon, the one at Liège, there certainly isn't much subtlety in the playing, and not in Schoonbroodt neither!  But we've seen this sort of straight from the hip approach can be very attractive - Flamme in Michael Praetorius for example. The problem for me is that my expectations about what Sweelinck should sound like have been set by Winsemius, Leonhardt etc - I want solemnity please, authentic or not.


By "chiff", I mean the little hiss that pipes make as they start to speak - they act sort of like consonants in singing, if we take the fully developed pipe tone as a vowel.

It's become somewhat of distinguishing feature of Baroque pipe voicing, although builders of the neo-baroque revival in the 50~70's tended to over-do it.

8' Principal of a not particularly distinguished 60's American Neo-Baroque organ https://youtu.be/lWWj08IbPpw?t=1m11s

8' Principal of a Brombaugh organ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J33lFVZl1Zg

8' Principal at Uttum (our favorite organ) https://youtu.be/xF0LBkA3yWw?t=2m56s

A bit of an extreme example, the Trost's principal at Waltershausen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nu4PzEFDPM

... Although there are certainly historical organs with almost no chiff:

8' Principal at Kantens https://youtu.be/yFhSAOuUHyY?t=4m53s
I sometimes practice on an Ahrend organ that is voiced exactly this way with almost no chiff, and while it's a beautiful organ it is a bit unnerving since it's harder to tell when a note starts.

Also 8' at Krewerd, which now you can tell works very differently from the examples I provided above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-76OkKhTr4, with pipes that range from zero chiff to lots of chiff.

Tangermünde is also somewhere in between: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByoUKl-gauw
(Scherers were based in Hamburg, an area very influenced by the organs that Niehoff built there - some organ contracts, at least in the 16th century, even demanded them to imitate the way Niehoff voiced his organs)

Anyways, back to Liege, I think we can agree that what we hear there is very different from the sound examples I provided, even if most of examples (except for the Zimmer and Trost organs) are from a similar geographic area and period as Niehoff, or in the Brombaugh's case Niehoff-inspired. Thus the shock. But KvdL could be correct, all these organs (except for maybe Krewerd) represent evolved styles, the pipes that Brombraugh looked at have been revoiced and stood on different wind pressure etc... and Liege is really more like what Sweelinck knew.

Another thing, Albert Kiespenning was an organ builder that Sweelinck regularly worked with. One of his organs still exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MN3p_pNprA
Again, a different sound world from the "Niehoff" in Liege.

I'm with you with solemnity and subtlety, none of the Sweelinck recordings at Liege really satisfy me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 26, 2019, 05:05:06 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2019, 12:17:55 PM

By "chiff", I mean the little hiss that pipes make as they start to speak - they act sort of like consonants in singing, if we take the fully developed pipe tone as a vowel.

It's become somewhat of distinguishing feature of Baroque pipe voicing, although builders of the neo-baroque revival in the 50~70's tended to over-do it.


Thanks for these links. In short it is this over-done chiff (and of course the equal tuning) which makes many neo-baroque organs (many Marcussen and Metzler organs among others) rather tiring listening in the long run.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2019, 06:38:28 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2019, 12:17:55 PM

By "chiff", I mean the little hiss that pipes make as they start to speak - they act sort of like consonants in singing, if we take the fully developed pipe tone as a vowel.

It's become somewhat of distinguishing feature of Baroque pipe voicing, although builders of the neo-baroque revival in the 50~70's tended to over-do it.

8' Principal of a not particularly distinguished 60's American Neo-Baroque organ https://youtu.be/lWWj08IbPpw?t=1m11s

8' Principal of a Brombaugh organ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J33lFVZl1Zg

8' Principal at Uttum (our favorite organ) https://youtu.be/xF0LBkA3yWw?t=2m56s

A bit of an extreme example, the Trost's principal at Waltershausen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nu4PzEFDPM

... Although there are certainly historical organs with almost no chiff:

8' Principal at Kantens https://youtu.be/yFhSAOuUHyY?t=4m53s
I sometimes practice on an Ahrend organ that is voiced exactly this way with almost no chiff, and while it's a beautiful organ it is a bit unnerving since it's harder to tell when a note starts.

Also 8' at Krewerd, which now you can tell works very differently from the examples I provided above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-76OkKhTr4, with pipes that range from zero chiff to lots of chiff.

Tangermünde is also somewhere in between: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByoUKl-gauw
(Scherers were based in Hamburg, an area very influenced by the organs that Niehoff built there - some organ contracts, at least in the 16th century, even demanded them to imitate the way Niehoff voiced his organs)

Anyways, back to Liege, I think we can agree that what we hear there is very different from the sound examples I provided, even if most of examples (except for the Zimmer and Trost organs) are from a similar geographic area and period as Niehoff, or in the Brombaugh's case Niehoff-inspired. Thus the shock. But KvdL could be correct, all these organs (except for maybe Krewerd) represent evolved styles, the pipes that Brombraugh looked at have been revoiced and stood on different wind pressure etc... and Liege is really more like what Sweelinck knew.

Another thing, Albert Kiespenning was an organ builder that Sweelinck regularly worked with. One of his organs still exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MN3p_pNprA
Again, a different sound world from the "Niehoff" in Liege.

I'm with you with solemnity and subtlety, none of the Sweelinck recordings at Liege really satisfy me.

Excellent, those example really made thing clear. And how much more refined and interesting Utum is compared with those modern organs!

I WANT MORE KREWARD!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 26, 2019, 03:31:44 PM
One of the organs with the most beautiful principal 8' is currently tuned in equal temperament, the Hinsz organ in Buitenkerk Kampen. Hinsz reused old 16th-century pipes for the organ, and I really like the relaxed, vocal sound that starts with a little "spit".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNevFI2LJNs
(Wonderful performance too!)

I wouldn't say that chiff is overdone in the sort of modern organs you refer to, it's just different. The Trost organ, for instance, has even more chiff than the Zimmer but we can agree that it is also more beautiful than the Zimmer. It isn't the only parameter to pipe sound too, of course.

Also, the Marcussen and Metzler weren't the worst offenders. Take this organ built by Paul Ott in the 50's (this particular Paul Ott is also responsible for quite a few by todays standards botched and unnecessarily invasive organ "restorations" - he restored original Schnitger organs to sound like his own chiffy machines)
https://youtu.be/Qa-tBI2wZQ4?t=1m43s
But there's actually something very charming about this - at least there is more character than the really offensively inoffensive organs that for instance Rübsam (first one, Metzler at Frauenfield and Marcussen at Freiburg) or Hurford uses in their Bach integrales.

Eg. here, a principal 8' from Rübsam's set on the Frauenfeld Metzler organ: https://youtu.be/eAeFEkjfnEg?t=11m14s

Thankfully, we're more than fully capable of building old-sounding principals - e.g. here in Göteborg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t269dEz_vGM

Even a Flentrop from the 70's already comes quite close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trl-26oSEHU

Original Schnitger principals for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkHnOXIDIW4 (Notice that even Schnitger principals all sound different, of course dependent on subsequent rebuilders, the room, recording technology, how Schnitger's own tastes changed over time. etc.)

Stellwagen organ Lübeck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQwz7tOK_ks

Van Haegerbeer-organ Leiden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nIbLvshYL0

18th-century Anton Gansen organ in unrevoiced condition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUsQaTphiJY

A much-rebuilt organ from the early 16th century in Kiedrich: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8zWzj6zS3s

Another Baroque organ without much chiff, this time an English organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCkmaL6deko

Or another unrevoiced post-Schnitger Northern German organ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndCMwRCuP-Q

And then the other extreme with lots of expressive chiff, a South German organ also in pristine condition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6GKWPDZaso

I hope you are liking these "principal beauty pageants" (with some duds mixed in). :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 27, 2019, 06:37:57 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 26, 2019, 03:31:44 PM
I wouldn't say that chiff is overdone in the sort of modern organs you refer to, it's just different. The Trost organ, for instance, has even more chiff than the Zimmer but we can agree that it is also more beautiful than the Zimmer. It isn't the only parameter to pipe sound too, of course.

Yes different, but still distracting. But I admit, that too much "white noise" is the worst offender.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
Also, the Marcussen and Metzler weren't the worst offenders. Take this organ built by Paul Ott in the 50's (this particular Paul Ott is also responsible for quite a few by todays standards botched and unnecessarily invasive organ "restorations" - he restored original Schnitger organs to sound like his own chiffy machines)
https://youtu.be/Qa-tBI2wZQ4?t=1m43s

The Schnitger organs in Stade and Norden and the Bielefeld organ in Stade can be heard in Ott's version on Walter Kraft's Bach integral.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid
But there's actually something very charming about this - at least there is more character than the really offensively inoffensive organs that for instance Rübsam (first one, Metzler at Frauenfield and Marcussen at Freiburg) or Hurford uses in their Bach integrales.

I have had a few online discussions with Rübsam, and at some point I considered to ask him, why he chose this bland Metzler organ for his first Bach integral, but I changed my mind, being afraid to offend him.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on October 27, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck: Organ Works. "Psalms from Geneva"

Toccata's in C, G, A; Psalms No. 23, 36, 116, 140; Fantasia Chromatica in D; Echo Fantasia in C; Chorale "Allein Gott in der Höh sei Ehr'" & "Puer Nobis Nascitur"


Masaaki Suzuki, Organ.

"The attractively varied programme on this disc alternates secular music for the organ with Sweelinck's settings of psalms from the Genevan Psalter. Due to the suspicion with which the Dutch Reformed Church - and Calvin - regarded instrumental music in religious contexts, these settings were not intended to accompany the congregational singing, but were rather played either before or after the service, providing an opportunity for meditation and afterthought. They fill a similar role on this disc, sandwiched as they are between the more extrovert Toccatas and Fantasias, but also testify to the central place these psalms had in Sweelinck's work. As an epitaph put it, it was he 'who put to music David's royal word, And made it to resound in Zion, in Holland it was heard.' The organ chosen by Masaaki Suzuki is a splendid instrument built by Marc Garnier in 2002, according to the Northern German and Dutch style of the mid-17th century". Mean tone temperament with two sub semitones. I do not know what the pitch is.

First the sound of this organ is fantastic to start with, and it is also fantastically recorded.
As to the performance of Masaaki Suzuki, I can say that I like it very much. His tempi are vivid , almost a bit in the spirit of improvisation. And yet Suzuki has all under control. There is some intellectual rigour, in the presentation of these works, but that fits exactly around the music. It does not mean there is no spontaneity, on the contrary, but what I want to say is, that there is a rigidity of pulse, beautifully fitted in the context, but no hesitation to exploit the natural rich sonorities. It's very much a performance to my liking. In fact I rate this performance very high.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 27, 2019, 11:55:54 PM
Quote from: "Harry" on October 27, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck: Organ Works. "Psalms from Geneva"

Toccata's in C, G, A; Psalms No. 23, 36, 116, 140; Fantasia Chromatica in D; Echo Fantasia in C; Chorale "Allein Gott in der Höh sei Ehr'" & "Puer Nobis Nascitur"


Masaaki Suzuki, Organ.

"The attractively varied programme on this disc alternates secular music for the organ with Sweelinck's settings of psalms from the Genevan Psalter. Due to the suspicion with which the Dutch Reformed Church - and Calvin - regarded instrumental music in religious contexts, these settings were not intended to accompany the congregational singing, but were rather played either before or after the service, providing an opportunity for meditation and afterthought. They fill a similar role on this disc, sandwiched as they are between the more extrovert Toccatas and Fantasias, but also testify to the central place these psalms had in Sweelinck's work. As an epitaph put it, it was he 'who put to music David's royal word, And made it to resound in Zion, in Holland it was heard.' The organ chosen by Masaaki Suzuki is a splendid instrument built by Marc Garnier in 2002, according to the Northern German and Dutch style of the mid-17th century". Mean tone temperament with two sub semitones. I do not know what the pitch is.

First the sound of this organ is fantastic to start with, and it is also fantastically recorded.
As to the performance of Masaaki Suzuki, I can say that I like it very much. His tempi are vivid , almost a bit in the spirit of improvisation. And yet Suzuki has all under control. There is some intellectual rigour, in the presentation of these works, but that fits exactly around the music. It does not mean there is no spontaneity, on the contrary, but what I want to say is, that there is a rigidity of pulse, beautifully fitted in the context, but no hesitation to exploit the natural rich sonorities. It's very much a performance to my liking. In fact I rate this performance very high.

Yes I think the organ's very good, I think that milk heard Suzuki give a Sweelinck recital using it. And your explanation of what he's doing, the pulse etc, is what I hear I think too. By coincidence I listened to some of the CD last week, just a couple of psalms,  when there was a discussion here about the Liège organ and different styles playing Sweelinck.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 04, 2019, 06:12:35 PM
I like Daniel Oyarzabal's Bolero nowadays. Again the GMG never accepts pic from my iPad.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y13ZZQY


Post ed. The link shows the list of works, including Bolero, Pics @ Exhibit, Capriccio Espagnol, etc.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JBS on November 04, 2019, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: Forever Electoral College on November 04, 2019, 06:12:35 PM
I like Daniel Oyarzabal's Bolero nowadays. Again the GMG never accepts pic from my iPad.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y13ZZQY

Links to the listing for the physical CD work better if it's not OOP
[asin]B07W47BVTR[/asin]

But the Amazon listing is very limited. What's on it? (I assume a certain work by Ravel...)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on November 19, 2019, 03:04:15 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 27, 2019, 11:55:54 PM
Yes I think the organ's very good, I think that milk heard Suzuki give a Sweelinck recital using it. And your explanation of what he's doing, the pulse etc, is what I hear I think too. By coincidence I listened to some of the CD last week, just a couple of psalms,  when there was a discussion here about the Liège organ and different styles playing Sweelinck.
If this is the one in Japan then I heard it. I'm no one to ask because I've only seen a few organ recitals and only in Japan, but this recital blew me away. It's a pretty small space so the effect is weird there. Without a lot of reverberation you feel like you're in the pipes and Suzuki is so convincing. That Sweelinck music live sounded so improvisatory - I felt like I was on a space ship. I wonder what's a comparable recording of a baroque organ in a physically small venue. The other recitals I've heard have been on modern organs in pretty huge spaces.   
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 19, 2019, 03:31:36 AM
Suzuki's idea about how Sweelinck's music should go seems to me to fit in with what Egarr thinks

Quote. . . It is hugely important to realize that in the Netherlands at this time the Amsterdam 'organist' job was a purely secular one. In 1578 Prince William of Orange deposed Catholicism, curtailing music in worship, except monophonic psalm-singing. The Calvinists (one of the strong religious presences in the city) also discou- raged musical performance in church. Sweelinck was a Catholic, but (like the situation with William Byrd in England) his fame and standing meant he received a tacit acceptance. Sweelinck's 'religious' music (psalms, motets, etc.) was designed mostly for private performance in homes (along with his many secular vocal works), not in church as such. His job actually entailed playing what were effectively concerts twice a day on the organ, which the Calvinists considered a worldly instrument. . . .

. . . At the time of writing I will have lived in Amsterdam for nearly three decades. It is, and always has been, a city full of different kinds of people, a centre for trade, and a massive tourist trap. Anyone who has travelled on a flight from the UK to Amsterdam on a Friday can be sure of seeing a certain kind of traveler off to see the more notorious sides of the city's delights. These have always been part of its history. In 1594 a certain Count Philip Louis II of Hanau-Münzenberg listed as his attractions: the artillery house, a live elephant in the hall of the archers' guild, and 'hearing the city's organist'. Yes, Sweelinck was as popular as a performing pachyderm! . . .

. . . When I moved to Amsterdam in 1990, a book entitled 'The UnDutchables: an observation of the Netherlands, its culture and its inhabitants' had just appeared. It is still extremely popular and is constantly being re-published with new material. It is a wonderful and funny book that tries to explain the Dutch and their special unique ways and world-view. It says the Dutch people are 'not lacking in self-esteem ... caught up in a cycle of endless envy ... always speak their mind ... frank, obstinate, blunt' and that 'the natives thrive on shaking their fingers at and scolding each other'. Certainly the Dutch have always been direct, blunt, perhaps even rude – reasons why they have been so successful as traders. Their attitudes to music making can certainly be strong, and at worst rigid. Sweelinck's music has suffered from many objective, colourless and academic performances and recordings in the name of 'authenticity'. The modern view of performing this music in a non- expressive and detached manner is totally contrary to its vibrant and exciting content. . . .

. . . There are many expressions that include the supposed Dutch cha- racter: 'Dutch courage', 'Dutch uncle' etc. 'A Dutch treat' is a particularly fine example, and anyone who has lived in Holland can attest to its basis in reality. An invitation to dinner or event will conclude with the guests 'going Dutch', that is paying for themselves. I do not think Sweelinck would have approved.

Methinks the unDutchables may be quite a useful book for people who post on this forum.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 29, 2019, 03:14:24 AM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4025796003024.jpg)

Quite a few of this 8 CD series have become available for download/streaming. Not all of them has music which interests me, but some of them do. I'm listening to a Kuhnau sonata at Pfaffroda  now, and it's very enjoyable indeed.

https://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.fra.rch&org=&tit=Die+Orgeln+von+Gottfried+&oeu=&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Rechercher&edi=&nrow=10
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 29, 2019, 08:01:17 PM
I am becoming very tempted by some of these Hauptwerk digital/virtual pipe organ setups.

Does anyone have experience with these?

There are many videos on YouTube, such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWprXxnmrYM&t=208s

Not bad for 1800$, but I certainly would not set up speakers like that...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 01, 2019, 03:49:56 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 29, 2019, 08:01:17 PM
I am becoming very tempted by some of these Hauptwerk digital/virtual pipe organ setups.

Does anyone have experience with these?

There are many videos on YouTube, such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWprXxnmrYM&t=208s

Not bad for 1800$, but I certainly would not set up speakers like that...
You've hit on a significant weakness . Unless these instruments are heard through a state of the art amplifier/speaker combination there's little point to them other than for practice or committing directly to a digital medium. Remember, the pipe organ is by far the most difficult instrument to reproduce with anything like accuracy.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 02, 2019, 02:09:32 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 29, 2019, 08:01:17 PM
I am becoming very tempted by some of these Hauptwerk digital/virtual pipe organ setups.

Does anyone have experience with these?


CDs recorded with Hauptwerk have been released. I have heard a couple of these on my HIFI at home. The sound as such may be relatively true, but the acoustics feel artificial - something I thought before I knew, that the recordings were made in this way.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 02, 2019, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 01, 2019, 03:49:56 PM
You've hit on a significant weakness . Unless these instruments are heard through a state of the art amplifier/speaker combination there's little point to them other than for practice or committing directly to a digital medium. Remember, the pipe organ is by far the most difficult instrument to reproduce with anything like accuracy.

Of course that's true, but it's the closest many of us will ever get to playing one of these great instruments. Also, I have a pair of Vandersteen 2Ces, and if I bought the subwoofer (and another amp) to go with it, they would sound pretty good with one of these setups. St. Sulpice good? No. (I was there in June for a recital) but better than some $300 active monitors.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 05, 2019, 07:14:19 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 02, 2019, 03:20:13 PM
Of course that's true, but it's the closest many of us will ever get to playing one of these great instruments. Also, I have a pair of Vandersteen 2Ces, and if I bought the subwoofer (and another amp) to go with it, they would sound pretty good with one of these setups. St. Sulpice good? No. (I was there in June for a recital) but better than some $300 active monitors.
Add a pair of Velodyne DD 15' subs, instal their room compensation software and (if it's on the recording) the lowest notes of the St Sulpice will massage your innards quite effectively and at an identifiably correct pitch. No need to upgrade the Vandersteen 2C's. In fact if you remove the lowest frequencies by handing them over to the subwoofers they'll sing like never before.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 06, 2019, 12:44:13 AM
One feature of Youtube videos I do enjoy are the informal tours of individual intrument's stops. I've bitched about the often nasty sonics of Youtube but sometimes the character of an instrument survives the usual MP 3 compression as in the link below.  You can skip the introduction, Mr Gartshore does at times tend to prattle on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2f5CaZRCW8
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here's a seriously strange instrument by of all people Rieger. Maybe they had a seriously eccentric client dedicated to the modern repertoire? Some of the noises it makes sound to me like a diesel engine horn on an American railway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQEJ18d0tms
Speaking of strange instruments this one is really interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlfcuawEUvg
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 08, 2019, 12:54:25 AM
There are many instruments out there that are strange by today's standards. This one, the first instrument the Grand-Orgue by Cavaillé-Coll at Cathédrale de Saint-Denis, has some serious limitations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhsYEhXs5c
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 08, 2019, 02:13:51 AM
The solo read on this organ is astonishing as is Michel Chapuis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdmxckFTm1c
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 08, 2019, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 08, 2019, 02:13:51 AM
The solo read on this organ is astonishing as is Michel Chapuis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdmxckFTm1c

It's certainly an amazing organ, even has 32' manual stops. Are you familiar with Kei Koito's Art of Fugue or Leonhardt's recording on this organ?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 08, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 08, 2019, 07:40:09 PM
It's certainly an amazing organ, even has 32' manual stops. Are you familiar with Kei Koito's Art of Fugue or Leonhardt's recording on this organ?
Not familiar with Koito but I have several of Leonhardt's recordings somewhere in my collection (11,500 odd LP's & an uncounted number of CD''s)
I'll dig up Leonhardt's tonight. Just consulted my LP spreadsheet . I only have Leonhardt's Goldberg Variations on LP BWV 998. My CD's I haven't put onto a spreadsheet yet and they're in a state of confusion anyhow due to renovations. Would you care to recommend a specific recording/s I should acquire? CD or download or LP?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 09, 2019, 11:36:12 AM
OOOOO baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4iVold0eU
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 09, 2019, 11:44:40 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 09, 2019, 11:36:12 AM
OOOOO baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4iVold0eU
Do you always get so excited over an attractive young lady playing with an organ?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 09, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 09, 2019, 11:44:40 AM
Do you always get so excited over an attractive young lady playing with an organ?

Probably most often when it's his own.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 09, 2019, 12:19:03 PM
Nothing wrong with a solo performance.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 09, 2019, 11:04:24 PM
Now let's get serious people.
How I wish there were more organ videos produced with the stops being used appearing on one side of the screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAGq9xnGj-Y
And how I wish we had a video  of Arp Schnitger and his team constructing one of his instruments.
This will have to do :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHEY3AoqHrY
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 10, 2019, 02:07:50 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 09, 2019, 11:36:12 AM
OOOOO baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4iVold0eU

Saw her in concert just recently. I have to say, portative organ still isn't my thing - but her harpsichord playing is phenomenal.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 10, 2019, 03:08:00 AM
I saw her play her organ in a concert a couple of years ago with Servir Antico, and really didn't enjoy it. Everything seemed flat, no relief. But friends of mine, some of whom are really much more involved in early music than I am - people who play portative organ in ensembles etc - seemed to love her and couldn't see my problem. And she seems to get good people to work with her - e.g. Marc Mauillon. So I put it down to a bad seat in the church and dyspepsia after too much Dutch ale.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 10, 2019, 12:38:47 PM
What kind of Dutch ale do you like? Our new local boooze superstore has a phenomenal selection of beers and I am enjoying trying them out. My favorite recent discovery is Ayinger Doppelbock Celebrator--probably my favorite beer after Guinness.

I actually just bought an MP3 album by Ms. Vicens--music by Byrd, Bull, and Gibbons. I am enjoying it greatly, although I am far from an expert in this repertiore. She plays some virginals and other goodies here as well. See what you think:

https://www.amazon.com/Parthenia-Catalina-Vicens/dp/B00CX1N9U2/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=catalina+vicens&qid=1576013904&sr=8-2


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 10, 2019, 01:04:38 PM
I can't take more than a few minutes of any of the harpsichord tracks due to the fools of recording engineers stuffing their mikes INSIDE the damned thing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 10, 2019, 01:22:09 PM
Hey, thanks for ruining it, man! I used to also like mint chip ice cream until someone told me they thought it tasted like toothpaste!  :P
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 10, 2019, 02:51:33 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 10, 2019, 03:08:00 AM
I saw her play her organ in a concert a couple of years ago with Servir Antico, and really didn't enjoy it. Everything seemed flat, no relief. But friends of mine, some of whom are really much more involved in early music than I am - people who play portative organ in ensembles etc - seemed to love her and couldn't see my problem. And she seems to get good people to work with her - e.g. Marc Mauillon. So I put it down to a bad seat in the church and dyspepsia after too much Dutch ale.

Wouldn't say "flat," but it's just music outside of my comfort zone. Was quite relieved when she launched back into some Andrea Antico.

On the bright side, that would mean that your toothpaste tastes like mint chip ice cream.
I like my current toothpaste because it tastes like root beer. :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 16, 2019, 02:15:55 PM
I may have posted this on the Bach organ thread previously. As I keep returning to it again and again I've decided it can't have too much exposure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoxijdFKA0&list=RDEMyzLcZ08HYttup5zYBdsHww
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JBS on December 24, 2019, 07:15:56 PM
Crosspost from the main listening thread

According to Amazon MP, this set is almost worth its weight in gold
[asin]B01G65QU0Q[/asin]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51lHOROBfjL.jpg)
NP
CD 8
9 CDs in this set are chorale settings; this is the seventh of those nine, featuring chorales whose source hymns have titles starting in O and N (the chorales are sorted alphabetically in this set).
Given the nature and era of the music, comparisons to Bach's chorale settings are natural. Suffice it to say Walther does not suffer by the comparison.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2019, 02:20:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/1qvBENRUGbU

Very nice early c19 organ here,  Saint-Gervais, Geneva, restored under the direction of Lionel Rogg I think, here being used for a Roberday fugue by Adrien Pièce.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on February 29, 2020, 09:26:54 PM
Listened the set on YT. Some compositions are very good while many of them exhibit the influence from JSB. Execution is good/fair. I am not crazy about the organ and recording quality. Interesting album.

https://www.amazon.com/Johann-Gottfried-Muthel-Complete-Organ/dp/B00QG15KVQ
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 01, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/5425004840653.jpg)

A release to watch out for - features alternatim verses improvised(?) by Lorenzo Ghielmi on the 1442 Rysum organ.
A wonderful article about this organ by Christopher Holman: http://www.voxhumanajournal.com/rysum.html

Anyone heard Catalina Vicens' latest release? It's already available on youtube. In general this type of organ music isn't my cup of tea (as mentioned above), but I'm curious about how people think of it. Features the organs in Krewerd (1531/ possibly older?) and Ostönnen (~1425), both stately old ladies that deserve to be heard more.

(https://consouling.be/sites/default/files/Catalina-cover-copy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: staxomega on March 14, 2020, 07:43:14 AM
The documentary Martinikerk Rondeau- does anyone know if there is a way to watch this/buy this online as a download or streaming? My Blu-Ray player sometimes has issues with all region DVDs.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 14, 2020, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 01, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/5425004840653.jpg)


Anyone heard Catalina Vicens' latest release? It's already available on youtube. In general this type of organ music isn't my cup of tea (as mentioned above), but I'm curious about how people think of it. Features the organs in Krewerd (1531/ possibly older?) and Ostönnen (~1425), both stately old ladies that deserve to be heard more.

(https://consouling.be/sites/default/files/Catalina-cover-copy.jpg)

Yes, she's up to some pretty imaginative stuff with those little organs and you know I like them. And I know everyone likes Vicens . . . but me, in everything I've heard from her, whether live or on record, I've been underwhelmed. It's me, not her. I think.

The Rysum CD I'd like to hear but they seem to be having distribution problems -- and I want to wait till it comes on streaming platforms, I'm too mean to pay for it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Marc on March 14, 2020, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: hvbias on March 14, 2020, 07:43:14 AM
The documentary Martinikerk Rondeau- does anyone know if there is a way to watch this/buy this online as a download or streaming? My Blu-Ray player sometimes has issues with all region DVDs.

Not that I know of.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 14, 2020, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 14, 2020, 10:48:43 AM
Yes, she's up to some pretty imaginative stuff with those little organs and you know I like them. And I know everyone likes Vicens . . . but me, in everything I've heard from her, whether live or on record, I've been underwhelmed. It's me, not her. I think.

The Rysum CD I'd like to hear but they seem to be having distribution problems -- and I want to wait till it comes on streaming platforms, I'm too mean to pay for it.

Me too (for both)
Also, I should be corrected - I don't think Ghielmi improvises on the disc, it's all authentic 15th century music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on April 01, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81rL96bJgBL._SL1450_.jpg)

As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 02, 2020, 07:59:13 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 01, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81rL96bJgBL._SL1450_.jpg)

As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.

Well I thought I'd approach this scientifically, I thought I'd choose a random sample of . . . one piece. What came up was the Toccata ut re blahblahblah SwWV  263.

I thought it was a wonderful, exuberant, life enhancing performance! It totally takes off, flies up to heaven, breaks free of the rails etc.

The organ sounds "clean", it doesn't resonate much, it makes a nice pure sound. And that lets him give the music some of the cut and thrust and turbulence of a harpsichord performance. The only other organ performance I had at hand was Winsemius at Edam, completely different and I don't know if Bocaccio doesn't pip him.

The organ (which one is it? I don't have any notes on spotify) sounds equally tuned to me, but I could well be proved wrong.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 02, 2020, 07:59:13 AM
Well I thought I'd approach this scientifically, I thought I'd choose a random sample of . . . one piece. What came up was the Toccata ut re blahblahblah SwWV  263.

I thought it was a wonderful, exuberant, life enhancing performance! It totally takes off, flies up to heaven, breaks free of the rails etc.

The organ sounds "clean", it doesn't resonate much, it makes a nice pure sound. And that lets him give the music some of the cut and thrust and turbulence of a harpsichord performance. The only other organ performance I had at hand was Winsemius at Edam, completely different and I don't know if Bocaccio doesn't pip him.

The organ (which one is it? I don't have any notes on spotify) sounds equally tuned to me, but I could well be proved wrong.

The booklet: https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621727/95643-sweelinck-digital-booklet-01.pdf

You mean Sweelinck's Hexachord (Ut re mi fa sol la) fantasia? It's on the Lemgo organ, definitely tuned in 1/4 comma meantone. The fantasia does stay fairly well in the bounds of meantone temperament without too many "blue notes" (as in the Fantasia Cromatica), I don't think it ever modulates - and remember meantone is sort of an "equal temperament" too since the intervals of the "good keys" are the same.

I'm not so familiar with Winsemius at Edam, but I was very impressed by his performance of the same fantasia, also at Lemgo, on the Glossa set (volume 1). Rather more sedate and less colorful, but more subtle performance that that of Bocaccio.

The NM Sweelinck set (which I know you like) has it as Fantasia F1, with Liuwe Tamminga at Pistonia.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 02, 2020, 10:25:26 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
The booklet: https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621727/95643-sweelinck-digital-booklet-01.pdf

You mean Sweelinck's Hexachord (Ut re mi fa sol la) fantasia? It's on the Lemgo organ, definitely tuned in 1/4 comma meantone. The fantasia does stay fairly well in the bounds of meantone temperament without too many "blue notes" (as in the Fantasia Cromatica) - and remember meantone is sort of an "equal temperament" too since the intervals of the "good keys" are the same.

I'm not so familiar with Winsemius at Edam, but I was very impressed by his performance of the same fantasia, also at Lemgo, on the Glossa set (volume 1). Rather more sedate and less colorful, but more subtle performance that that of Bocaccio.

I don't have Glossa V 1 -- i may have to do something about that --  thanks for the booklet.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 01, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81rL96bJgBL._SL1450_.jpg)

As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.

I just heard an exemplary rendition of the "Mein junges Leben" variations on here, not so much mournful as charming and virtuosic, a paradoxically giddy romp through the stops of the Oederquart organ. I especially liked the "surprise appearance" of full organ and the cymbelstern (little wind-driven bells) in the penultimate variation, then slowly fading away on a lone principal, then a lone flute in the last...

Boccaccio's a rather "secular" Sweelinck performer, often breathing maybe a tad bit too much life into Sweelinck's famously learned, even pedantic counterpoint. While I do prefer the more level-headed approach which most performers take, I like it. But he's not so successful in the sombre and stately psalm variations, I think. (Although I will probably recant that opinion very soon, knowing who I am)

(https://www.dkunert.de/WebRoot/Store12/Shops/62923526/555D/B164/D08E/7390/28A5/C0A8/2ABA/4F65/4530835110385_VS.JPG)
If you can find it (it is on Naxos), this is a great Sweelinck recording. Might be one of my favorites, actually.

I think performers should play more of Sweelinck's variation sets on organ. Most Sweelinck set recordings have them played on harpsichords/virginals, since according to Dirksen, the keyboard range and secular content would indicate that they were played on harpsichord instead of organ. But they're great for demonstrating the range of sounds and effects an organ can produce, much more so than long, rambling fantasias or toccatas played on full organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 03, 2020, 01:10:13 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 04:56:02 PM

(https://www.dkunert.de/WebRoot/Store12/Shops/62923526/555D/B164/D08E/7390/28A5/C0A8/2ABA/4F65/4530835110385_VS.JPG)
If you can find it (it is on Naxos), this is a great Sweelinck recording. Might be one of my favorites, actually.

I think performers should play more of Sweelinck's variation sets on organ. Most Sweelinck set recordings have them played on harpsichords/virginals, since according to Dirksen, the keyboard range and secular content would indicate that they were played on harpsichord instead of organ. But they're great for demonstrating the range of sounds and effects an organ can produce, much more so than long, rambling fantasias or toccatas played on full organ.

Thanks for pointing that out, it does indeed sound rather good.

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 04:56:02 PM
I just heard an exemplary rendition of the "Mein junges Leben" variations on here, not so much mournful as charming and virtuosic, a paradoxically giddy romp through the stops of the Oederquart organ.


I have to say I'm  a harpsichord man for this, more cut and thrust, but I'll listen to some organ recordings later -- listening with great pleasure to Egarr now -- a very colourful and refined instrument there.


Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 02, 2020, 04:56:02 PM


Boccaccio's a rather "secular" Sweelinck performer, often breathing maybe a tad bit too much life into Sweelinck's famously learned, even pedantic counterpoint. While I do prefer the more level-headed approach which most performers take, I like it. But he's not so successful in the sombre and stately psalm variations, I think. (Although I will probably recant that opinion very soon, knowing who I am)



Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 03, 2020, 10:15:01 PM
Thanks for bringing these to my attention. The Boccacio Sweelinck and the new Vicens are now both on my wish list for future purchase. In fact, this very moment I am FLAC-ing Vicens' Il Cembalo de Partenope A Renaissance Harpischord Tale, played on the oldest playable harpsichord in existence.

My next listening project is the Reger organ works--I received the complete Naxos set as a Christmas gift and am just getting around to them now. I have a couple of these as individual disks, listened to previously.

Any thoughts on approaching this intimidating ouevre?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on April 05, 2020, 05:35:02 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 03, 2020, 01:10:13 AM
Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.

You're correct, Sweelinck was employed by the city rather than the church to improvise on psalms so people would know what to sing in the unaccompanied services. I think "Italian" is a much better term than"secular," I was trying to describe Boccacio's playing rather than the music itself - although Huygens' complaints of overly showy playing by organists in these daily concerts also come to mind.

I just listened to Egarr, and I understand why you like Boccacio. :)
Egarr is a bit too whimsical and colorful for me. He'd sound perfect in Scheidemann, though.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 16, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
Do any of youse guys ever turn around in your listening chair so that you face away from the (speakers) organ, as you would in most churches?

I do this on occasion with my computer speakers, and I find the perspective is very nice. I close my eyes and pretend I am listening in person. No, I don't have subwoofers capable of pounding out 16Hz at 120 db, but, depending on the church, organ, and music, the sound can often be quite soft and subtle.

What if any modifications to setup might help with this? Any thoughts on this depraved practice?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 16, 2020, 06:58:51 PM
JFYI, Watanabe's web and bio.

https://darcadia.blogspot.com/search/label/member%20of%20RD



Quote from: Mandryka on April 03, 2020, 01:10:13 AM
Thanks for pointing that out, it does indeed sound rather good.


I have to say I'm  a harpsichord man for this, more cut and thrust, but I'll listen to some organ recordings later -- listening with great pleasure to Egarr now -- a very colourful and refined instrument there.


Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on April 19, 2020, 03:20:13 AM
XB-70 Valkyrie,

I haven't yet turned my listening chair around. It would be inconvenient. However, I am a pacer and often hear the sound coming from the reverberant field as I walk around. During the last month, I have been playing with multi-channel sound from SACDs and DVDs, and with them, there really is reverberation from the recording venue. While the jury is still out, I am finding the envelopment, or immersion as audio scientists refer to it, of sound appealing, though it depends on the recording, and I haven't yet convinced myself the ante is worth it.

I hope you don't mind the tangent I took :-)

Elk
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 19, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 16, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
Do any of youse guys ever turn around in your listening chair so that you face away from the (speakers) organ, as you would in most churches?

No, on the contrary I use at organ concertos to turn round as much as possible to have the face towards the organ. Our ears are naturally designed to hear the sounds coming in front of us most clearly..
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on April 19, 2020, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 01, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81rL96bJgBL._SL1450_.jpg)

As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, [...]

For the cover, Brilliant used a portait made in the early seventies by Dutch graphic designer Oxenaar, to feature on the 25 guilder banknote:

(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2015/5/29/6/f/c/6fc26d18-05de-11e5-9ac9-289cee2823e5.jpg)

Q

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2020, 11:41:54 PM
https://youtu.be/-48MOAa3Es0

A wonderfully introverted, ecstatic Erbarm dich of Sweelinck played by Leon Berben at Tangermunde. I like this organ much more than the Liege organ, Niehoff reconstruction or not.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2020, 11:11:26 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2020, 11:41:54 PM
https://youtu.be/-48MOAa3Es0

A wonderfully introverted, ecstatic Erbarm dich of Sweelinck played by Leon Berben at Tangermunde. I like this organ much more than the Liege organ, Niehoff reconstruction or not.

Yes lovely, thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 12, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
https://youtu.be/dJub5esLuBQ

A LP rip of a young Bernard Winsemius playing the then-freshly restored A'dam Nieuwe kerk organ in 1983, for all the Winsemius fans here on this forum.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 13, 2020, 07:53:28 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on May 12, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
https://youtu.be/dJub5esLuBQ

A LP rip of a young Bernard Winsemius playing the then-freshly restored A'dam Nieuwe kerk organ in 1983, for all the Winsemius fans here on this forum.

Excellent, thank you.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Papy Oli on May 28, 2020, 07:03:14 AM
Might be of interest for those who can access it :

Lesley Dolphin - Church Organ builder Peter Bumstead sits on Lesley's sofa. - BBC Sounds
Peter Bumstead has been building and repairing Church Organs for nearly 40 years.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p05z4w5m (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p05z4w5m)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2020, 12:15:52 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tT98QsVPL._SS500_.jpg)

This is a little gem - music, organ and organist are all wonderful. Actually, "little" is misleading, it's a huge anthology of music.

St Trond is described here.

http://routardenvadrouille.e-monsite.com/pages/reportages-de-clione/beguinages/page-11.html


The web page was full of ads for me, but it's worth persevering because the church and the organ is special. French, but the pics are worth looking at even if you can't read the words. . A béguinage is a place for lay religious women. The wiki about them is amusing because of the etymology! I was hoping it came from béguin, but no, the much more prosaic bégayer apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguinage

Pierre Froidebise (what a wonderful name - Peter Coldwind I guess but it could just was well be Peter Coldkiss!) knows how to play it and makes sense of this very early music. He's done other stuff, including some Bach at Alkmaar which I haven't heard yet.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 06, 2020, 10:02:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 06, 2020, 12:15:52 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tT98QsVPL._SS500_.jpg)

This is a little gem - music, organ and organist are all wonderful. Actually, "little" is misleading, it's a huge anthology of music.

St Trond is described here.

http://routardenvadrouille.e-monsite.com/pages/reportages-de-clione/beguinages/page-11.html


The web page was full of ads for me, but it's worth persevering because the church and the organ is special. French, but the pics are worth looking at even if you can't read the words. . A béguinage is a place for lay religious women. The wiki about them is amusing because of the etymology! I was hoping it came from béguin, but no, the much more prosaic bégayer apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguinage

Pierre Froidebise (what a wonderful name - Peter Coldwind I guess but it could just was well be Peter Coldkiss!) knows how to play it and makes sense of this very early music. He's done other stuff, including some Bach at Alkmaar which I haven't heard yet.

I recognize it by the Dutch name, Begijnhof at Sint Truiden. Wonderful 17th century organ.
I'm sure you recognize this, which is also recorded on it:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51lshL7v3uL._SY400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on August 20, 2020, 06:39:00 PM
I am really enjoying the Organic Creatures two disc set by Catalina Vicens. I held out for the actual discs instead of the MP3s (although the former required some patience to acquire), and I'm glad I did. However, I wish the liner notes had more photos and commentary about the music and instruments. It actually would have made for a superb little hardcover book.

I must say the playing is superb although I am unfamiliar with much of this music. The "Pigeon Egg" organ by van der Putten is delightfully strange, but also very beautiful. Some of the sounds are strange enough I began to suspect they were electronically altered or augmented, but liner notes say otherwise. Looking forward to starting disc 2.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 20, 2020, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on August 20, 2020, 06:39:00 PM
I am really enjoying the Organic Creatures two disc set by Catalina Vicens. I held out for the actual discs instead of the MP3s (although the former required some patience to acquire), and I'm glad I did. However, I wish the liner notes had more photos and commentary about the music and instruments. It actually would have made for a superb little hardcover book.

I must say the playing is superb although I am unfamiliar with much of this music. The "Pigeon Egg" organ by van der Putten is delightfully strange, but also very beautiful. Some of the sounds are strange enough I began to suspect they were electronically altered or augmented, but liner notes say otherwise. Looking forward to starting disc 2.

Yes it's very good and I didn't know that a CD had become available, I shall have to order one. I heard her play the organ and it does sound like that - though the acoustics of the recording is much better than the acoustics of the church where she played!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on August 21, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

The mic placement in these recordings is extremely close (At least on the first CD I listened to) and there is very little sonic clue as to the environment. In any case, she is very young and has interesting ideas. Hopefully, we will have many more years' worth of recordings from her to look forward to.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 21, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on August 21, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

The mic placement in these recordings is extremely close (At least on the first CD I listened to) and there is very little sonic clue as to the environment. In any case, she is very young and has interesting ideas. Hopefully, we will have many more years' worth of recordings from her to look forward to.

First thing, I just checked out Organic creatures - The real 15th century works are well-played, since she's undoubtedly the master of those. On the other hand, her free improvisations are interesting, but I can't take too much at once.

I like the mic placement, gives a good sense of intensity and detail in the sound of the organ. Apparently the organ at Krewerd is actually very loud (Marc will know?), locals call it something along the lines of "the screamer of Krewerd." It sounds smoother and less "screamy" here than on most recordings I know of it, I wonder how the engineers managed to do that.

Temperament - worth reading about Pythagorean tuning, which most (?) organs of this time should be tuned in. Meantone wasn't used until the late 15th or early 16th century (my history is rusty here) where you would hear more thirds, which would be unusable in pythagorean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

There are no complete surviving instruments before the Ostönnen organ of ~1425 that Vicens uses in the recording - some pipework from here or there and a few cases (e.g. an 14th century emptied case from Norrlanda, Sweden), but nothing you would call a complete organ.  Even during the time of Praetorius (early 17th century) these early instruments were already rare and considered as curiosities. So all the reconstructions are conjectural, but based off of historical sources (treatises about organ building or paintings of organs).
A really good article about these organs: http://www.davidrumsey.ch/DIAP0513p20-25.pdf
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on August 21, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Thanks for the info! I will look forward to reading.

Actually, the improvisations are my two favorite tracks on CD1--track 2 Titled "Creatures" and track 20 "Improvisation". In fact, the liner notes list CD1 as having 21 tracks, with the second improvisation not listed. However Foobar 2000/MusicBrainz lists it as having 22 tracks with track 20 titled "Improvization" after ripping to FLAC. I wonder whether the MP3 tracks are identical to the ones on the CD. The MP3s were only $8 a few months ago on Amazon, but I held out for the CDs (nearly $40).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: pjme on August 21, 2020, 11:07:52 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on August 21, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

Check (and ask) van der Putten : https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/?lang=en

https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/2012-hamburg/?lang=en
(Hamburg - with pigeon egg scale)

https://books.google.be/books?id=tZpE05Ws_BwC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=Pigeon+egg+mensura&source=bl&ots=VfTUJZ3kZ7&sig=ACfU3U3DRtY6YopDbsNXvLQSPzLKpjBoDw&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjK2rn67rAhVHm6QKHeFFDz0Q6AEwEHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pigeon%20egg%20mensura&f=false

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/855/
About Sint Truiden begijnhof.

(https://psallentes.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/3897-32-68-3.jpg?w=300&h=268)

Psallentes made two cds with music sung by the "begijntjes" .
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André on August 22, 2020, 06:05:22 AM
Coincidentally, yesterday's edition of the belgian TV news had a feature on the Leuven beginhof. A 'quiet city' within the city. Yet another place to visit  :).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 23, 2020, 07:08:55 AM
A great online recital given by Peter van der Zwaag on the rarely heard 1663 Father Smith organ in Edam. It makes some really delicate and ravishing sounds that are to die for!
Especially enjoyed the Willam Byrd Ut re mi and Bach at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDb17Ijet4
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 23, 2020, 07:11:29 AM
Quote from: pjme on August 21, 2020, 11:07:52 PM

https://books.google.be/books?id=tZpE05Ws_BwC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=Pigeon+egg+mensura&source=bl&ots=VfTUJZ3kZ7&sig=ACfU3U3DRtY6YopDbsNXvLQSPzLKpjBoDw&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjK2rn67rAhVHm6QKHeFFDz0Q6AEwEHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pigeon%20egg%20mensura&f=false


Thanks for this book, was an interesting read. Even as an organist, I confess that I pretty much know nothing about organs and their music before the Faenza/Robertsbridge Codexes.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 23, 2020, 07:29:51 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 23, 2020, 07:08:55 AM
A great online recital given by Peter van der Zwaag on the rarely heard 1663 Father Smith organ in Edam. It makes some really delicate and ravishing sounds that are to die for!
Especially enjoyed the Willam Byrd Ut re mi and Bach at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDb17Ijet4

Very good -- I wonder if he says anything specially interesting between the tracks.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 23, 2020, 10:48:42 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 23, 2020, 07:29:51 AM
Very good -- I wonder if he says anything specially interesting between the tracks.
It's all double dutch to me.
Of course, Edam is also the butt of that cheesy joke I won't repeat here.

Good essay about this organ, if you haven't seen it: https://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/edam.html
I've never heard of anyone who actually tried to peddle the idea of "tonal maturation" when it comes to organs, though, so I'm not sure why Bicknell felt the need to argue so strongly against it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on August 24, 2020, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 23, 2020, 10:48:42 AM
It's all double dutch to me.
Of course, Edam is also the butt of that cheesy joke I won't repeat here.


What about Venezuelan beaver cheese?

???

Have you got any cheese at all (he said expecting the answer 'no')?

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 29, 2020, 08:10:20 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81jZpgoX9iL._SL1200_.jpg)

Just looking at the tracklist, lots of seldom-recorded Sweelinckian stuff primarily from the Lüneburg organ tabulature (from which we get most of our surviving music of Scheidemann, Weckmann etc.) intersperced with more familiar beauties from the usual suspects.

I am listening to the Praetorius Magnificat which I've actually played before (the first verse is a classic "Hamburg style" plainchant setting in which you play the cantus on the upper of the 2 voices of the pedal and double it as the lowest voice in the hands - Weckmann also does this somewhat often) and it is clear and relaxed, possibly a bit too relaxed. But extremely inventive playing. I have to listen more.

And of course, the excellent Stellwagen organ is well-known in this neighborhood :)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nPJwSsgemzg9J2xg7IQ1HyUQHV0d5O3Kk


Edit: a nice video-trailer to this disc https://vimeo.com/341527492
Captures the paradoxically grand-yet-intimate atmosphere of St. Jakobi Lübeck, scarcely half the size but having two organs of almost comparable size to those at the Marienkirche.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 30, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81kv1wW4O5L._SL1429_.jpg)

Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on August 30, 2020, 11:56:24 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 30, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81kv1wW4O5L._SL1429_.jpg)

Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.

Good for you, Flamme irritates me no end with his pedantic style of playing, missing a lot of the details, by making the organ sound like the landing of a Boeing 777 ER. Subtlety is not one of his strong points. In fact I find him a mediocre organist!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2020, 12:57:10 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 30, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81kv1wW4O5L._SL1429_.jpg)

Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.

Thanks, listening to the chaconne now. Who could resist a heard of elephants?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 31, 2020, 01:07:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2020, 12:57:10 AM
Thanks, listening to the chaconne now. Who could resist a heard of elephants?

Is "heard" a pun? :)

For those craving more elephants, I present to you Sietze de Vries having fun with Praetorius on Reincken's organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuS58-IeZBY
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2020, 02:36:54 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on August 31, 2020, 01:07:23 AM
Is "heard" a pun? :)

For those craving more elephants, I present to you Sietze de Vries having fun with Praetorius on Reincken's organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuS58-IeZBY

Of course. In hindsight.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 20, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
(https://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/thumbnails/760623215761.jpg)

A very nice recording on the recently reconstructed organ in Trinity church of Gdansk, what is a complete reconstruction of an 18th century Polish organ in a highly elaborate original 17th century case, reassembled after being whisked away to safety from falling bombs in WWII. (I think these old Polish organ cases are some of the most beautiful ever made - shame that a lot have since been destroyed, or no longer contain their original innards) Lots of different music, we have everything from Frescobaldi, Sweelinck, to early Bach (bwv 561) without feeling too much like this is someone's dissertation recital. Andrzej Szadejko playing is good, with a lot of "drive," and he also gives us lots of opportunities to hear the different stops of the newly-minted organ.

The last track is a jolly mash-up, so to say, of Bach's and Buxtehude's passacaglias, by a certain "Andreas Nicholas Shade" :) Really worth hearing!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 06:00:03 AM
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 18, 2020, 08:02:47 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 06:00:03 AM
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

Try some of the Scheidemann on Naxos. There are some good things there. And the Rübsam Pachelbel too.

The last organ recording I heard was the one with Doeselaar  and Wiersinger at Groningen - but I didn't enjoy it much. Oh, and I listened to some Heinrich Isaac masses with organ alternatim.

And yes, I remember now, I played this which is always a treat

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/411CJFTMZ7L._AC_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 08:34:42 AM
^I actually just bought this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71QTlbHWl0L._SL500_.jpg)

There's vols. 1 & 2 also at the same store where I got this, so if I like it, I'll probably jump on those. I know nothing of Scheidemann except that he was a student of Sweelinck.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 18, 2020, 08:51:18 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 08:34:42 AM
^I actually just bought this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71QTlbHWl0L._SL500_.jpg)

There's vols. 1 & 2 also at the same store where I got this, so if I like it, I'll probably jump on those. I know nothing of Scheidemann except that he was a student of Sweelinck.

Nice modern baroque style organ - clean sounding without the thrilling partials of the real McCoy but perfectly listenable - make sure you play it through something with a good bass response. You're listening to a powerful machine. Brown plays beautifully IMO, fluid and inflected with really natural hesitations, tempos let you smell the roses without ever losing the move forward. What a shame she didn't come to Europe to record it on an organ Scheidemann himself used!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 12:48:49 PM
Maybe it is too bad, indeed, but still it's one of the best sounding organs I've ever heard on disc! (Disclaimer, I've only heard about 5.) I love the tone of that thing. She plays the same instrument on the Buxtehude disc that I've had for several months now.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 18, 2020, 01:39:07 PM
Yes it's fabulous, powerful - this afternoon I listened to it on small speakers but now on my big system it sounds amazing, you must go to Oregon just to hear it. The church acoustic sounds impressive on disc - imagine in real life.

Do you like all the dissonances? That's from the tuning - I can't find the details but it's certainly far from the equal tuning of a piano, and Scheidemann really uses that in the music. It's quite a shock to people who aren't used to it, they hear it as out of tune, but that's because they're just not familiar with such intense dissonance.


I'm listening to Brown play the magnificat on that disc. Scheidemann is famous for a cycle of (I think) seven that he left.

(Oh I found something about the organ here - it's tuned with Kellner's Bach temperament

https://web.archive.org/web/20110503004223/http://www.welcometocentral.org/specs.html)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 18, 2020, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 06:00:03 AM
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

I've played that Brombaugh! His organs are some of the best-sounding of his "generation" (1970-80's), before the major North German organs like Norden, Groningen and Hamburg were restored and there was a lot of guesswork on how they should have sounded.
I actually didn't like the acoustic in person or in CD, a bit too dry. But put it in a resonant old European church and I bet it will sound like the Scherer in Tangermünde.
(I actually like the Sweden Brombaugh used by Karin Nelson in vol. 2 the most.)

Kellner's temperament is one of my favorites, you can play in all keys without things being too sour, but it gives a strong "meantone" feel for me.

Re: Dissonances, according to Ibo Ortgies, by the time of Scheidemann almost all of the big Hamburg organs were updated with enharmonic "subsemitones" so you could play more pure intervals while still in meantone, so some of the stronger dissonances could be avoided. That being said, it sounds great in regular meantone!

About Naxos:
The Weckmann recordings by Zerer are unbeatable. Played in Weckmann's own church, St. Jacobi in Hamburg, too, the "real McCoy."
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VDbav9Y-L.jpg)

Other good things: Krebs by Gerhard Gann, Muffat by Haselböck, Pachelbel by Rübsam
possibly also the 2 CD's of van Noordt (a bit straight-laced playing of already rather straight-laced music though, I'm enjoying Gerard de Wit playing van Noordt now instead)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
^Wow, I'm jealous! I've never played a (pipe) organ; the closest I've gotten is a couple of old Hammond and Vox electric organs, which are badass in their own right (meaning for a completely different kind of music). It must be an amazing feeling being behind the wheel of one of those beasts.

Thanks for the tips; I know nothing about Weckmann. Don't think I've even heard his name before. But I'll have to check out that disc!

@Mandryka, yeah, I like the tuning. Not organ, but I recently heard a Louis Couperin disc and was impressed with the unusual tuning, so I'll take this opportunity to briefly mention it...:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513Okw9NSpL._SX466_.jpg)

Anyway, next time I'm out in Oregon I'll have to swing by Central Lutheran in Eugene, for sure. Complete opposite side of the country from me, but whatever  ;D

I'm listening to that Magnificat now. Damn, it's good.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 18, 2020, 04:55:20 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
Anyway, next time I'm out in Oregon I'll have to swing by Central Lutheran, for sure. Complete opposite side of the country from me, but whatever  ;D

I see you're in Atlanta! The best Baroque-style organ builder in the area is Richards, Fowkes & co, founded by Brombaugh students - maybe you can visit one of their organs! I think Taylor and Boody (based in Virginia) might also have some instruments nearby.
https://www.richardsfowkes.com/index.php
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 18, 2020, 04:55:20 PM
I see you're in Atlanta! The best Baroque-style organ builder in the area is Richards, Fowkes & co, founded by Brombaugh students - maybe you can visit one of their organs! I think Taylor and Boody (based in Virginia) might also have some instruments nearby.
https://www.richardsfowkes.com/index.php

Wow, thanks! Seriously, I have no idea about any of this stuff, but I find it fascinating. Those look beautiful. I wonder if they'll take me on as an apprentice ;D It seems like fascinating work. Failing that, I'll still have to track one down to hear what a great Baroque organ sounds like in person...
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 18, 2020, 07:40:12 PM
Since you asked (also sort of as a response to the Sweelinck pupils thread), here's a non-comprehensive list of recordings I've particularly enjoyed of 17th century North German organ music - definitely the one type of organ music that I love to both listen to an play.

- Anything by Hans Davidsson - so far he has recorded the complete works of Böhm, Weckmann (twice!), and Buxtehude and is still going strong.
- Franz Tunder by Pamela Ruiter Feenstra or Wolfram Syre
- "Music of a Father and Son" by David Yearsley ("Father and Son" being Delphin Strungk and Nicolaus Adam Strungk)
- "Alt-Hamburgischer Organistenspiegel" by Jens Wollenschläger
- "Arp Schnitger and the Hamburg Organ Tradition" by Harald Vogel
- Jacob Praetorius and Schildt by Bernard Foccroulle
- Scheidemann by Bernard Coudurier or Leo van Doeselaar
- Scheidemann and Scheidt by Klaus Eichhorn
- The "Norddeutsche Orgelkunst" series by Martin Rost, played on the 1659 Stellwagen organ in Stralsund

As a bonus, Sietze de Vries playing Reincken's 20-minute chorale fantasia on An Wasserflüssen Babylon, arguably the single most important work we have from this whole school of organists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuQqebKAJwM

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 19, 2020, 05:47:45 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 06:00:03 AM
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

I like Lubeck, Bruhns, and Muffat.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 20, 2020, 12:24:09 AM
https://youtube.com/v/oAoCLMb7PHA

This rare recording from Leonhardt (Norddeutschland) features one of my favourite Scheidemann sequences, a handful of pieces at the end played at Marienhafe. Unfortunately there's no track listing on the YouTube upload, they're the last half dozen or so pieces, starting with a jaunty galliard (at Uttum) followed by six pieces with more gravitas at Marienhafe. This discogs tracklist should make it possible to navigate the upload with a bit of effort, and anyway I can always let anyone who wants it have the CD rip,

https://www.discogs.com/Gustav-Leonhardt-Renaissance-Und-Barock-Orgeln-Norddeutschland/release/13484802
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 20, 2020, 02:27:24 AM
^If you swear it's all as good as this sequence I might just spring for the box...:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iR0AAOSwx6pYpQ~O/s-l640.jpg)

(FWIW, I'm seeing a track listing here on the Youtube upload. I skipped to the end.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 20, 2020, 08:13:36 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 20, 2020, 02:27:24 AM
^If you swear it's all as good as this sequence I might just spring for the box...:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iR0AAOSwx6pYpQ~O/s-l640.jpg)

(FWIW, I'm seeing a track listing here on the Youtube upload. I skipped to the end.)

Just buy everything that Leonhardt ever recorded.

I can't swear that just because I don't remember everything in there,  but I do remember that the box is consistently high standard. Of course, not all the music in it will please you equally - Leonhardt has a huge repertoire.



But I don't think that the Scheidemann at Marienhafe is in that box, I could be wrong. (Just checked, it isn't.)

This is a good site to know about if you get interested in organ music -

https://france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.fra.rch&org=Leonhardt+&tit=&oeu=Scheidemann+&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Rechercher&edi=

(I'm smiling to myself because I'm doing for you now what Premont and Marc did for me 10 years ago!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Scheidemann at Marienhafe isn't in that set, and neither are his wonderful performances at St. Jacobi Hamburg.
You can preview the first 2 discs of the set here - note these are South German organs, quite a different horse from their Northern brethren! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lc8pFgaqJo7baXgj0v0z1CBK-YznlzDD0

The music in the video posted comes from this set, I think only available in the huge SEON box. (Or from Mandryka :) )
(https://img.discogs.com/H8sVttfBOzATR2ODCWjO3M_yYgo=/fit-in/500x494/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13484802-1555092310-2483.jpeg.jpg)

My personal favorite is the Schildt Magnificat! I think this was also a "world premiere recording" of it at the time - and a real good one! A bit of a "tadpole" though - after the amazing first three verses the fourth one sounds a bit pathetic.
The Scheidemann at the end I admit I have never listened closely to and I should revisit it.

This is also a wonderful disc, that can also be picked up for cheap.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515jnQWDlyL.jpg)

Something really distinctly "Leonhardt" that I have not heard many other people do is play the first verses of these choral cycles quietly, rather than on full organ. He does this in the Schildt Magnificat, Scheidemann Magnificat on the 6th tone on the Hamburg disc*, and also on the Weckmann magnificat above. Not "authentic" as far as we know, but extremely effective.

*Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzgZE_3-K8U
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 20, 2020, 08:07:12 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 18, 2020, 07:40:12 PM

- Franz Tunder by Pamela Ruiter

+1. Any opinion on Emanuele Cardi/Brilliant C ?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 11:14:45 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 20, 2020, 08:07:12 PM
+1. Any opinion on Emanuele Cardi/Brilliant C ?

Rather watery playing, gentle and indifferent. I also don't really like the organ, not eccentric and "mean" enough.
Same goes for Tomadin for me. I prefer my Tunder with some more mystery and bite :)
Ruiter-Feenstra and Foccroulle have the mystery, Syré has the bite I think.
I remember saying that I liked Sietze de Vries playing Tunder but took it back, it's way too happy and witty to be Tunder.

Tunder is one of my favorite composers, but I haven't found a fully satisfactory recording of his works. Although Syré comes close. His Christ lag in Todesbanden fantasy is killer, but in other places his playing can come off a bit too monochrome.

Edit: A very good, bold and brash Tunder from a certain Cor de Jong on my favorite organ on the planet (1634 van Hagerbeer in Leiden). I've posted it before but I think it's well worth hearing again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTsEncFYZAI
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 20, 2020, 11:32:03 PM
Pamela Ruiter-Feenstra. Spiritual; poetic; like Scheidemann in fact.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 20, 2020, 11:35:55 PM
Bernard Foccroulle.
Friedhelm Flamme.


Both Tunder à la stylus fantasticus.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 11:53:49 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 20, 2020, 11:35:55 PM
Bernard Foccroulle.
Friedhelm Flamme.


Both Tunder à la stylus fantasticus.

I thought of Flamme as less successful Syre carbon copy - rather brisk tempo and without half of the magic. But I've only heard the Todesbanden fantasy from him.

Peter Westerbrink has a series, Franz Tunder in perspectief, naturally only available in the Netherlands (as all great organ CD's are). Anyone familiar with it?
(https://www.organroxx.com/web/binary/image?model=organroxx_muziekdb_v2.album&id=2661&field=cover_picture)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 21, 2020, 12:36:18 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 11:53:49 PM
I thought of Flamme as less successful Syre carbon copy - rather brisk tempo and without half of the magic. But I've only heard the Todesbanden fantasy from him.

I quite like Flamme's organ. Colourful, it never sounds chaotic, it's never hard.

But ultimately my heart isn't in stylus fantasticus. So I like most of all Davidson for Buxtehude, Reeter Feenstra for Tunder. You could say that I'm missing the point of the music, but I don't care.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 21, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 21, 2020, 12:36:18 AM
I quite like Flamme's organ. Colourful, it never sounds chaotic, it's never hard.

But ultimately my heart isn't in stylus fantasticus. So I like most of all Davidson for Buxtehude, Reeter Feenstra for Tunder. You could say that I'm missing the point of the music, but I don't care.

I'll check out the rest of Flamme and report back.

What do you mean by "stylus fantasticus?" Virtuosic, unsubtle playing, more style than substance?
(of course, the original "stylus fantasticus" as mentioned by Kircher simply means free, non tactus-bound music, like Froberger Toccatas or the start of Buxtehude praeludia)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 21, 2020, 01:14:00 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 21, 2020, 12:50:33 AM
I'll check out the rest of Flamme and report back.

What do you mean by "stylus fantasticus?" Virtuosic, unsubtle playing, more style than substance?
(of course, the original "stylus fantasticus" as mentioned by Kircher simply means free, non tactus-bound music, like Froberger Toccatas or the start of Buxtehude praeludia)

What I mean is, I like it heavy with mystery, light on bite.  Fluid but not watery.

(I've always had a problem with Bux. Davidson was an ear opener.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 21, 2020, 03:07:28 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
My personal favorite is the Schildt Magnificat! I think this was also a "world premiere recording" of it at the time - and a real good one!

About the same time Harald Vogel made a recording of the Magnificat also on the Stade organ, I am not sure if it wasn't made before Leonhardt's recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 21, 2020, 05:47:57 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 21, 2020, 03:07:28 AM
About the same time Harald Vogel made a recording of the Magnificat also on the Stade organ, I am not sure if it wasn't made before Leonhardt's recording.

That looks to have disappeared without trace, at least from the world wide web.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 21, 2020, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 21, 2020, 05:47:57 AM
That looks to have disappeared without trace, at least from the world wide web.

Not completely, but it must have been OOP since long.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/norddeutsche-orgelkunst-i-harald-vogel-spielt-werke-von-h-scheidemann-und-m-schildt-an-der-st-cosmae-orgel-1675-instade/oclc/13071201

https://www.arpschnitger.nl/cd-norddeutsche-orgelkunst-01.jpg
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 21, 2020, 03:34:51 PM
Just found this today - a series of recording excerpts from Vogel back in the 1980's, including what is presumably is OOP material on the Organa label as well as some unreleased stuff.
https://www.pipedreams.org/episode/1986/01/27/the-sound-of-history-i?fbclid=IwAR2VeCZDwIaEpYnzHuORMUyo3gLkBRIk_O-lQhMmABq3BcqONddX74xPidM

Edit: The Hieronymus Praetorius A solis ortus cardine is wonderful, colossal and brooding. I know it from Ablitzer's Gröningen recording but that lightweight little organ can't compete! The Buxheimer examples on Rysum sound a bit dated, not as fluid as playing we hear today.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 21, 2020, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 20, 2020, 11:14:45 PM
Rather watery playing, gentle and indifferent. I also don't really like the organ, not eccentric and "mean" enough.
Same goes for Tomadin for me. I prefer my Tunder with some more mystery and bite :)
Ruiter-Feenstra and Foccroulle have the mystery, Syré has the bite I think.
I remember saying that I liked Sietze de Vries playing Tunder but took it back, it's way too happy and witty to be Tunder.

Tunder is one of my favorite composers, but I haven't found a fully satisfactory recording of his works. Although Syré comes close. His Christ lag in Todesbanden fantasy is killer, but in other places his playing can come off a bit too monochrome.

Edit: A very good, bold and brash Tunder from a certain Cor de Jong on my favorite organ on the planet (1634 van Hagerbeer in Leiden). I've posted it before but I think it's well worth hearing again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTsEncFYZAI

Thanks a lot for your insights. I will check the suggested players.  :) :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on October 21, 2020, 06:05:10 PM
Many intriguing suggestions here to investigate--thanks gentlemen! (any ladies here? ). I am still currently enjoying the Daniele Boccaccio Sweelinck set and Organic Creatures by Catalina Vicens.

I would like recommendations for Frescobaldi organ music. I bought the complete set on Tactus years ago, and I found it incredibly boring (I listened to every single disc). Given that he was such an important composer for the instrument and that others have also complained about that set, I am still curious to investigate the music--on historical instruments!

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 12:13:05 AM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on October 21, 2020, 06:05:10 PM
Many intriguing suggestions here to investigate--thanks gentlemen! (any ladies here? ). I am still currently enjoying the Daniele Boccaccio Sweelinck set and Organic Creatures by Catalina Vicens.

I would like recommendations for Frescobaldi organ music. I bought the complete set on Tactus years ago, and I found it incredibly boring (I listened to every single disc). Given that he was such an important composer for the instrument and that others have also complained about that set, I am still curious to investigate the music--on historical instruments!

Thanks.

I would try this if I were you

(https://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1116-DA-2T.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 22, 2020, 01:27:19 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 12:13:05 AM
I would try this if I were you

(https://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1116-DA-2T.jpg)

Only 32 minutes of music!

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8013573--kimberly-marshall-plays-frescobaldi
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 01:44:20 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 22, 2020, 01:27:19 AM
Only 32 minutes of music!

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8013573--kimberly-marshall-plays-frescobaldi

Perfect!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 03:17:18 AM
(https://i.kfs.io/album/global/9956435,0v1/fit/500x500.jpg)

This is played by a very good musician I think, Enzo Corti, unfortunately he uses a c19 organ though.

Other names to think about with organ only recordings - Ton Koopman, Rinaldo Alessandrini, Andrea Marcon, Deszo Karasszon, Roland Gôtz, Rene Saorgin. My own favourite by far is Sergio Vartolo. All should be easily sampleable via streaming platforms.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 22, 2020, 08:04:42 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 01:44:20 AM
Perfect!

No, robbery  $:)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 10:16:09 AM
I recently enjoyed this:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61kfFtfZLCL._SL1200_.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kxQYfbNJPUC4055Gxq5U_wFw7fwdALxyY
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 10:46:03 AM
I think this one is a good, relatively unintimidating introduction to Frescobaldi. Includes stuff from both his famous Fiori Musicali, and "Fioretti" - cute little canzoni that although are not among Frescobaldi's best works are still nice to listen to.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71SFja-kgFL._SL1076_.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kgRq2U277p2v1oinl0a9W36LWr3ALNahY

For the complete Fiori Musicali, I liked Maurizio Croci - played on a modern organ, although one built in old style and by the leading restorer of old organs in Italy (Marco Fratti).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41KZCT%2BvU5L.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mI4JKr4cxmDOQkFf2X_bmf_4dbKoYI9iQ

Extremely hard to find and with less-than-optimal audio quality but some of the most charming Frescobaldi I've ever heard is played by François Moreau on an early 19th century French organ.

Otherwise I haven't heard as much Frescobaldi as I should, there are also a lot of things that I am trying very hard to love (e.g. Foccroulle's Frescobaldi, or all the ones by Tamminga, possibly Cera's set but I haven't heard enough).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 10:46:03 AM


Extremely hard to find and with less-than-optimal audio quality but some of the most charming Frescobaldi I've ever heard is played by François Moreau on an early 19th century French organ.



Was this a whole mass, with all the singing?  Just speaking for myself, I've enjoyed Italian organ masses most when they're presented as masses in toto -- Lorenzo  Ghielmi did it with Frescobaldi's Messa della Domenica, and Cera did it with an Andrea Gabrieli mass -- one of my favourite recordings. I appreciate I must be completely weird for liking this sort of presentation, being an atheist too! 

By the way, Jean Marc Aymes did something strange with Fiori Musicali -- he added some harp music!  Very nice harp music!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 11:36:56 AM
Was this a whole mass, with all the singing?  Just speaking for myself, I've enjoyed Italian organ masses most when they're presented as masses in toto -- Lorenzo  Ghielmi did it with Frescobaldi's Messa della Domenica, and Cera did it with an Andrea Gabrieli mass -- one of my favourite recordings. I appreciate I must be completely weird for liking this sort of presentation, being an atheist too! 

I'm an atheist part-time organist, so could be worse!

Probably only mass-like in the sense that they added back the alternatim plainchant verses - from what I know, Fiori Musicali was really a collection of Frescobaldi's best works in the loose guise of masses, sort of like Bach's b minor mass. At least they didn't include the sermon and readings, unlike McCreesh's Bach Epiphany Mass! (One recent release that I otherwise like, Byrd Great mass by Odyssean ensemble, has the music interspersed with lessons and prayers - I used the skip button a lot)

With plainchant, I think it's hit or miss. I like it here, but it can get annoying like in Davidsson's Weckmann/Buxtehude or Berben's Praetorius.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 22, 2020, 02:03:48 PM
A fine book.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 22, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Seems there's a lot of focus around early Baroque organ music in this thread. Any love for any 19th-20th century stuff, anyone?

I have been listening to a lot of Max Reger's organ music lately, the Naxos discs; I just got vols. 1-3 and 14 for a total of $8 ;D Do I need this much? No, probably not, but it was such a steal I had to go for it. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of this stuff lately. Some of it is really heavy and borderline psychedelic, some of it is quite tranquil. Reger had a unique voice on this instrument.

Also been dabbling in César Franck's organ music. I got the first volume w/ Eric Lebrun on Naxos, sounds great to me. I don't know much about the French school but I am curious to get more into Franck and things like Vierne and Widor. Of course from a later era there is Messiaen, a phenomenal organ composer. I still have yet to pull the trigger on a box of his complete organ works.

Still also enjoying the Julia Brown Scheidemann greatly. I need to return to the record store and get the other Scheidemann Naxos discs they have.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
I've played a bit of Reger and Mendelssohn, also made to play French Romantics as a student but frankly (Franckly?) a lot of the French Symphonic stuff that people really like just feels like complete gibberish to me - but completely my fault. (Sometimes I think the only French organ composer I like is Jehan Titelouze!)
Meanwhile German Romanticism is good for me, although in very small doses.

Have you heard Mendelssohn? Of course, his organ sonatas are well-loved. I particularly liked this one.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712NR4M0ANL._SL1200_.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kku7zBeklRpn1JM4WXPbVXoNyBHYwdfwo
God bless Mr. Davidsson!

If you like Mendelssohn, quite a few German romantic composers were influenced by him - like Gustav Merkel, Josef Rheinberger, Niels Wilhelm Gade etc.
A particularly dramatic movement from Merkel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZSon_GUWdU&list=OLAK5uy_lVtto_LoVZEMSwrqftgevvnWgYPD9xkXM&index=24

There's also Liszt, Reubke etc., if you like Reger.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 22, 2020, 02:03:48 PM
A fine book.

Buddhism (which I grew up with) is much more compatible with atheism than uh, High Church Anglicanism  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 07:05:36 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 05:51:56 PM
Buddhism (which I grew up with) is much more compatible with atheism than uh, High Church Anglicanism  :laugh:

I used to think that, but I don't any more, when you scratch the surface of Buddhism you find it's full of "gods" - immortal beings with super powers - called Bodhisattvas.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 10:53:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2020, 07:05:36 PM
I used to think that, but I don't any more, when you scratch the surface of Buddhism you find it's full of "gods" - immortal beings with super powers - called Bodhisattvas.

Gruesomely off topic, but it's part of the joys of an online forum - talking about Buddhism in a thread about organ music.

Depends on what type of Buddhism - yes, in Mahayana (Practiced in east Asia) there are bodhisattvas to be worshipped, also miscellaneous deities in Vajrayana (Tantric) but I was thinking Theravada Buddhism, probably closest to the historical Buddha's philosophy, which is more or less nontheistic. Of course there are still supernatural things like reincarnation and different realms of rebirth, but a lot of it can be explained away as metaphor. Thus "atheistic Buddhism" :)

Now, here's something that's relevant to both organ music and Buddhism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d0D-1zk_3A
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on October 23, 2020, 01:45:56 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
I've played a bit of Reger and Mendelssohn, also made to play French Romantics as a student but frankly (Franckly?) a lot of the French Symphonic stuff that people really like just feels like complete gibberish to me - but completely my fault. (Sometimes I think the only French organ composer I like is Jehan Titelouze!)
Meanwhile German Romanticism is good for me, although in very small doses.

Have you heard Mendelssohn? Of course, his organ sonatas are well-loved. I particularly liked this one.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712NR4M0ANL._SL1200_.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kku7zBeklRpn1JM4WXPbVXoNyBHYwdfwo
God bless Mr. Davidsson!

If you like Mendelssohn, quite a few German romantic composers were influenced by him - like Gustav Merkel, Josef Rheinberger, Niels Wilhelm Gade etc.
A particularly dramatic movement from Merkel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZSon_GUWdU&list=OLAK5uy_lVtto_LoVZEMSwrqftgevvnWgYPD9xkXM&index=24

There's also Liszt, Reubke etc., if you like Reger.

I haven't heard any of the Mendelssohn organ stuff, nor Liszt, nor anyone else you've mentioned. But now I have something new to look into! Thanks!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2020, 03:05:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
There is a  "great" organ recording with the Mendelssohn op 65 sonatas, it is magnificent. But it may not be possible to buy it any more. it is by Gerd Zacher and it includes the Brahms op 122 preludes, equally wonderful, bold and imaginative. The organ, by Karl Schuke in Essen, is magic, and the sound take puts you very convincingly in the body of the church, as it were. If you want I will let you have the files.

Gerd Zacher is a magnificent and creative organist, here, in Bach and in Schoenberg, Kagel and Ligeti.

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/CCYB_050502_SA__41619__01152009120613-5777.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 23, 2020, 06:25:54 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2020, 10:53:12 PM
Gruesomely off topic, but it's part of the joys of an online forum - talking about Buddhism in a thread about organ music.

Depends on what type of Buddhism - yes, in Mahayana (Practiced in east Asia) there are bodhisattvas to be worshipped, also miscellaneous deities in Vajrayana (Tantric) but I was thinking Theravada Buddhism, probably closest to the historical Buddha's philosophy, which is more or less nontheistic. Of course there are still supernatural things like reincarnation and different realms of rebirth, but a lot of it can be explained away as metaphor. Thus "atheistic Buddhism" :)

Now, here's something that's relevant to both organ music and Buddhism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d0D-1zk_3A

Fundamentally, Buddhism is a-theistic and philosophical, specifically skepticism and pessimism.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 23, 2020, 02:19:26 PM
I just happened on this while looking around for some good Mendelssohn.

(https://vkjk.de/tl_files/images_artikel/cds/2019/1910_Schoenheit_Halle.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lR_ty91_s_Xx8GzCCDzNEF5VkL9vj7M2o

The fun thing about Mendelssohn is that it works well on a lot of different organ types - despite living in the 19th century and undoubtedly familiar with the organbuilding developments of the time, Mendelssohn regularly played on early 18th-century Silbermann organs and his music works well on Baroque organs. Davidsson would be an example of a very "baroque" and rather more intimate conception of Mendelssohn, which I admit I'm biased towards.

But here's Mendelssohn from the "other side," an organ that was state-of-the-art in 1851. Despite this, you can still hear a lot of Silbermann in it! Also included are some Bach works and transcriptions, fittingly played in a mid-romantic manner including a "bolero approach" Passacaglia and Fugue. (That is, starting quietly and building up into a loud climax, rather than full organ all the way, like how Baroque and classical organists would have played it)

I think the Querstand label is really worth exploring for all sorts of German organ music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2020, 12:51:08 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
There is a  "great" organ recording with the Mendelssohn op 65 sonatas, it is magnificent. But it may not be possible to buy it any more. it is by Gerd Zacher and it includes the Brahms op 122 preludes, equally wonderful, bold and imaginative. The organ, by Karl Schuke in Essen, is magic, and the sound take puts you very convincingly in the body of the church, as it were. If you want I will let you have the files.

Gerd Zacher is a magnificent and creative organist, here, in Bach and in Schoenberg, Kagel and Ligeti.

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/CCYB_050502_SA__41619__01152009120613-5777.jpg)

I just heard the 1st and 3rd sonatas of this (thanks to Mandryka). First thing, the organ indeed is very nice - it is built in 1900 by EF Walcker (Schuke is the restorer), and is really late romantic, thick and truly symphonic, although maybe better for Reger than Mendelssohn. Zacher uses it well, he lets us hear some interesting sounds that it can make. The playing can be a little inconsistent - there are places that are wonderfully poetic (much of the 1st movement of sonata 1), but other places that are watery or even a little out of control (4th movement of sonata 1).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 26, 2020, 07:10:34 AM
Enjoyed Muffat Organ Works vols. 1 and 2 by Haselbock this weekend.  I like the albums by Kelemen and Falcioni as well, but these discs sound wonderful.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: T. D. on October 26, 2020, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
There is a  "great" organ recording with the Mendelssohn op 65 sonatas, it is magnificent. But it may not be possible to buy it any more. it is by Gerd Zacher and it includes the Brahms op 122 preludes, equally wonderful, bold and imaginative. The organ, by Karl Schuke in Essen, is magic, and the sound take puts you very convincingly in the body of the church, as it were. If you want I will let you have the files.

Gerd Zacher is a magnificent and creative organist, here, in Bach and in Schoenberg, Kagel and Ligeti.

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/CCYB_050502_SA__41619__01152009120613-5777.jpg)

Saw this message quoted, which [emphasis added] motivated me to pull an obscure recording off the shelf:
(https://img.discogs.com/_nsR8noRSaVds9c0_FnSuhvivLQ=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2683827-1384011290-5211.jpeg.jpg)
Zacher plays Rrrrrrr..." · 8 Orgelstücke
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on October 28, 2020, 05:14:44 PM
Thanks for the recommendations. Lots to explore with the Frescobaldi.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on November 16, 2020, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 26, 2020, 07:10:34 AM
Enjoyed Muffat Organ Works vols. 1 and 2 by Haselbock this weekend.  I like the albums by Kelemen and Falcioni as well, but these discs sound wonderful.
Is that an historical organ?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 16, 2020, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: milk on November 16, 2020, 09:45:58 PM
Is that an historical organ?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Stift_Klosterneuburg_Orgel.jpg/318px-Stift_Klosterneuburg_Orgel.jpg)
This beauty over here for CD1, a large 17th century South German organ known for its plethora of reed stops in an otherwise reed-less region. CD2 is a later, 1721 organ by Egedacher in Stiftes Zwettl.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 17, 2020, 12:26:22 AM
(https://www.aeolus-music.com/var/shop_site/storage/images/alle-tontraeger/ae11261-weckmann-matthias-complete-organ-works/59436-2-eng-GB/AE11261-Weckmann-Matthias-Complete-Organ-Works_imagelarge570.jpg)
Gosh, judging from the audio samples this one will be a barnburner.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 18, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
has anyone heard this? Japanese release from the 90's, looks out of print.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51V19sxNgXL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 18, 2020, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: milk on November 16, 2020, 09:45:58 PM
Is that an historical organ?

Sorry about the late reply. It appears to be a 17th century-built organ. I love the albums as well as the organ sound.

https://www.stift-klosterneuburg.at/en/monastery-and-order/vocations/church-music/monastery-organs/

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: milk on December 01, 2020, 01:05:40 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 18, 2020, 05:36:27 PM
Sorry about the late reply. It appears to be a 17th century-built organ. I love the albums as well as the organ sound.

https://www.stift-klosterneuburg.at/en/monastery-and-order/vocations/church-music/monastery-organs/
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 02, 2021, 05:55:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2sYEMLdTww
Rough-and-ready (but spirited, interesting, extrovert) playing of Bruhns big E minor praeludium, but the main highlight here is how the piece is taken as a programmatic piece about Orpheus in the underworld.

From the same organist, a modern double pedal full organ setting of Nun Komm in the style of BWV 686.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdK51bcezL4
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: VonStupp on June 30, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Pierre Cochereau
L'Improvisateur Extraordinaire
Improvisations on La Marsellaise and Adeste Fidelis
Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
Jeremy Filsell - organ


Filsell essentially transcribes Pierre Cochereau's organ improvisations from 50's-70's audio tapes (I assume from Notre Dame), and replicates them as best he can in Liverpool.

Having attended a number of Guild organ improvisation sessions, I find the whole process and experience fascinating, nonetheless through one of 20th Century's masters of organ improvisation. I can't imagine transcribing these, though; that is dedication!

(https://rovimusic.rovicorp.com/image.jpg?c=FhfwptV8Hl91PaIbZ3PXAQ4Q1ghY8VaPylnm7PwcKNY=&f=5)

I know there are many recordings of Cochereau himself playing, but I am not sure about these specific improvisations the transcriptions were based off of.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2021, 12:28:06 AM
(https://www.aeolus-music.com/var/shop_site/storage/images/alle-tontraeger/ae11261-weckmann-matthias-complete-organ-works/59436-2-eng-GB/AE11261-Weckmann-Matthias-Complete-Organ-Works_imagelarge570.jpg)

Who can tell me about the Stellwagen Lübeck? What is it's temperament. These interpretations by Berben are distinctive, fast, that's the most I can say at the moment.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2021, 12:42:50 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU0NzE0Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NDM3MDE1MTl9)

Retreated from Berben's Weckmann for meantone  ricercari, and that's more like what music should sound like!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on July 17, 2021, 12:23:51 PM
Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing new from Catalina Vicens for organ since Organic Creatures. Any news on her?

I am also looking for interesting recordings including the organ as an accompanying instrument--especially in works which would usually use a piano. (I am listening to two versions of the Vitali Chaconne lately; The virtuosity and expressiveness of the Gioconda de Vito recording make it my favorite overall, yet the use of organ as accompaniment in the Ricardo Odnoposoff recording is very enjoyable to hear.)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on July 17, 2021, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on July 17, 2021, 12:23:51 PM
Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing new from Catalina Vicens for organ since Organic Creatures. Any news on her?

Not that I know. But thanks for reminding me of the Organic Creatures, which I have to re-order, since my first order was cancelled for some unknown reason.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on July 17, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Yes, it's a fascinating recording. I could have just bought the MP3 download, but I held out for the actual CDs. I'm glad I did, even though they are much more expensive. They are not all that easy to find, but eBay has worked well for me for hunting down obscure recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2021, 07:25:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 06, 2021, 07:00:35 AM
The same company have also rereleased his Anthoni Van Noordt CD, which for some reason I'm finding myself enjoying more than the Sweelinck.

But not as much as Peter Ouwerkerk on Naxos, I'd forgotten, or I never knew, what a wonderful achievement these recordings are.


(https://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/pdf/rear/8.554204r.pdf#)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 06, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on July 17, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Yes, it's a fascinating recording. I could have just bought the MP3 download, but I held out for the actual CDs. I'm glad I did, even though they are much more expensive. They are not all that easy to find, but eBay has worked well for me for hunting down obscure recordings.

I think the exquisite sound on these CDs cries out for lossless reproduction.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 06, 2021, 08:06:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 06, 2021, 07:25:56 AM
But not as much as Peter Ouwerkerk on Naxos, I'd forgotten, or I never knew, what a wonderful achievement these recordings are.


(https://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/pdf/rear/8.554204r.pdf#)

I haven't heard van Doeselaar's van Noordt recording, but I share your enthusiasm for Ouwerkerk on Naxos as well as Naxos vol. 2 vith Cees van der Poel. These organists were unknown to me before these recordings. Holland is litterally crowded with excellent but unknown organists.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Selig on August 06, 2021, 09:23:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 06, 2021, 07:25:56 AM
But not as much as Peter Ouwerkerk on Naxos, I'd forgotten, or I never knew, what a wonderful achievement these recordings are.


Have you heard Bernard Winsemius play van Noordt's psalm 119? I thought that piece was a little sleepy on the Naxos disc (vol. 2), I like this more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0hDlV_SFc

1791 Hess organ, Nieuwe kerk, Haarlem
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2021, 09:35:28 AM
Quote from: Selig on August 06, 2021, 09:23:24 AM
Have you heard Bernard Winsemius play van Noordt's psalm 119? I thought that piece was a little sleepy on the Naxos disc (vol. 2), I like this more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0hDlV_SFc

1791 Hess organ, Nieuwe kerk, Haarlem

Yes I have, I like Winsemius very much.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 08, 2021, 11:20:37 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA3MDU2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzUwNDkyMzZ9)

Contrary to what the cover may suggest, only three of the pieces here are by Willaert. Musica Nova was an anthology of pieces by several different composers. The odd thing is that they choose to play many of them as duets for organ and harpsichord, the result sounds like a claviorganum of course, but it ain't. And some of them are for two organs. Do they need more than two hands and two feet? The recording is very satisfying in indeed.

Willaert: Ricercare I (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare III (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare IV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare VI (organ)
Benoist: Ricercare VII (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare VIII (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare IX (organ)
Willaert: Ricercare X (2 organs)
Segni: Ricercare XI (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XII (harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare XIII (harpsichord)
Willaert: Ricercare XIV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare XV (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare XVI (2 organs)
Golin: Ricercare XVII (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XVIII (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XIX (organ, harpsichord)
Cavazzoni: Ricercare XX (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XXI (harpsichord)
Willaert or Segni: Ricercare XXII / Appendix 1 (organ)
Coste: Ricercare XXIII / Appendix 2 (organ)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Selig on August 09, 2021, 12:05:33 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 08, 2021, 11:20:37 PM
Willaert: Ricercare I (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare III (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare IV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare VI (organ)
Benoist: Ricercare VII (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare VIII (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare IX (organ)
Willaert: Ricercare X (2 organs)
Segni: Ricercare XI (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XII (harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare XIII (harpsichord)
Willaert: Ricercare XIV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare XV (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare XVI (2 organs)
Golin: Ricercare XVII (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XVIII (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XIX (organ, harpsichord)
Cavazzoni: Ricercare XX (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XXI (harpsichord)
Willaert or Segni: Ricercare XXII / Appendix 1 (organ)
Coste: Ricercare XXIII / Appendix 2 (organ)

Are any of these pieces special in your opinion? IIRC Glen Wilson singled out Willaert XIV as a great masterpiece.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 09, 2021, 09:48:37 AM
Quote from: Selig on August 09, 2021, 12:05:33 AM
Are any of these pieces special in your opinion? IIRC Glen Wilson singled out Willaert XIV as a great masterpiece.

No, I can't say that any one is special on that recording, the Willaert XIV is certainly longer (though they only take 5 minutes to get through  it!)  What is striking is the claviorganum effect.

I listened to this today - good organ, bracingly played - to the extent that the counterpoint gets a bit smudged I think. But it is breathtaking. It made me think of this comment of Glen Wilson's

QuoteThe way the ranks of the Italian church organ are built up weighs them heavily to the treble. There are no mixtures to balance the bass (although smaller registers break back when their pipes become too small). Large organs even sometimes have additional ranks of principal pipes in the discant. This shows, to my mind, that their main function was the harmonization of choral melodies (falso bordone). Recordings, as well as my own experiences as performer and listener, confirm that lower contrapuntal voices come through poorly.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qs31K%2BaGL._SY355_.jpg)

That being said, I feel that the ideal recording of this music may not be on keyboard - it may come off well for an ensemble.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 09, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2021, 09:48:37 AM


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qs31K%2BaGL._SY355_.jpg)

That being said, I feel that the ideal recording of this music may not be on keyboard - it may come off well for an ensemble.

Then this may be part of what you are looking for (it sounds as if you do not know it):

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8031991--musica-nova

However I think the recording you mentioned above is most enjoyable and Tamminga was almost congenial in this music. Fortunately he left us many recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 09, 2021, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 09, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Then this may be part of what you are looking for (it sounds as if you do not know it):

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8031991--musica-nova



Ah, I knew it existed but I had never heard it. It is more like how I imagine the music in fact.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2021, 12:45:15 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 09, 2021, 10:15:05 AM

However I think the recording you mentioned above is most enjoyable and Tamminga was almost congenial in this music. Fortunately he left us many recordings.

There's something very free, spontaneous and inspired about the way he plays. A sort of abandon of the self. He reminds me of  Leonhardt in the last Forqueray CD, or Samson Francis in the Chopin mazurkas. Ultimately the Musica Nova recording is not for me for the reason I mentioned yesterday. But I've been enjoying very much Tamminga's contribution to this rather fine compilation CD

(https://rovimusic.rovicorp.com/image.jpg?c=JtroccqhnHjjG0X8zlHGSD6KsMttLlyBmmVTZ6_CLs0=&f=5)


The above is an outstanding CD!

(Thinking about Glen Wilson's comment on the bass response on Italian organs makes me want to go back to Rousset's Frescobaldi, I remember he deliberately chose a harpsichord with a poor bass response, saying that this was the authentic choice.)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on August 10, 2021, 04:26:35 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2021, 12:45:15 AM

(https://rovimusic.rovicorp.com/image.jpg?c=JtroccqhnHjjG0X8zlHGSD6KsMttLlyBmmVTZ6_CLs0=&f=5)

The above is an outstanding CD!

Completely agreed. It's the most interesting Isaac recording I have heard. It may convert even Que to Isaac. I got interested in it because of the three-part Agnus Dei II, which is the origin of this much recorded three part (instrumental) La Spagna (here with Don Smithers and David Munrow):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw0xAeAt3lA



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2021, 12:55:00 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91ZKWDGeUUL._SS500_.jpg)

This is presumably one of the recordings Glen Wilson was thinking of when he made his comment about bass voices on Italian organs. However, it is a very enjoyable recording IMO!  Both the performance and the music are very enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 14, 2021, 01:07:00 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273c0cc2d3f61fafa5c73401e24)

Tremendous organ here, as far as I know the only recording of the organ at the oratory of Sant'Antonio dei Cavalieri de Nardis in Aquila. Chamber sized I think. Performances incline towards the contemplative rather than virtuoso, good music in a Frescobaldi vein, like it very much.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Que on August 14, 2021, 02:23:07 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2021, 01:07:00 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273c0cc2d3f61fafa5c73401e24)

Tremendous organ here, as far as I know the only recording of the organ at the oratory of Sant'Antonio dei Cavalieri de Nardis in Aquila. Chamber sized I think. Performances incline towards the contemplative rather than virtuoso, good music in a Frescobaldi vein, like it very much.

Agreed.  :)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 06, 2021, 10:07:35 AM
Unlistenable transfer of what sounds like a fabulous Fiori Musicale at Bologna, Tagliavini at the organ in his inimitable style. Best played in one room and listened to in another

http://downloadclassica.blogspot.com/search/label/Frescobaldi
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 05, 2021, 01:04:06 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU0NzE0Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NDM3MDE1MTl9)

This is Gary Verklader's recording of Steigleder's ricercar cycle. A real orgy of colour, , it must be wonderful live. Modern copy of an early 17th century organ in Sweden - organ sounds great! The music is quirky, varied and interesting.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: vers la flamme on December 05, 2021, 05:07:57 AM
This is an excellent recording of lesser known organ composers in great sound:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Fzrg5rFV/image.png)

I don't know anything about the organ, but this instrument sounds beautiful and is recorded excellently. I would love to hear more organ recordings on the Oehms label but don't know how many there are. They did a great job with this one.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2021, 01:13:10 PM
(https://erfgoedpartners.nl/webshop/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/c65.jpg)

Mandryka introduced me to this recording, but I haven't listened to it much until now. And holy crap, what an amazing recording this is! Tuinstra is famous (infamous?) for his kaleidoscopic registrations, especially in the Netherlands where most organists seem to prefer simpler registrations and not many changes. It works really well here, the music itself isn't the most interesting so I think all the dizzying colors really add interest to it. And underneath all the flamboyant registrations Tuinstra is still at heart a Dutch organist - still solid, straightforward and weighty. It might even be one of the recordings I would recommend to someone just starting out in organ music, although typical for Dutch productions it's pretty expensive and hard to obtain. The booklet is free online, and is one of the most detailed booklets I've ever seen (and in 3 languages!): https://www.documuziekproductie.nl/images/uploads/cd_boekjes/BOHM_booklet.pdf
The organ on the last disc, Zandeweer is a highlight - not recorded on nearly enough. I like the extremely throaty and raspy principal sounds it has, although your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2021, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2021, 01:13:10 PM
(https://erfgoedpartners.nl/webshop/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/c65.jpg)

Mandryka introduced me to this recording, but I haven't listened to it much until now. And holy crap, what an amazing recording this is! Tuinstra is famous (infamous?) for his kaleidoscopic registrations, especially in the Netherlands where most organists seem to prefer simpler registrations and not many changes. It works really well here, the music itself isn't the most interesting so I think all the dizzying colors really add interest to it. And underneath all the flamboyant registrations Tuinstra is still at heart a Dutch organist - still solid, straightforward and weighty. It might even be one of the recordings I would recommend to someone just starting out in organ music, although typical for Dutch productions it's pretty expensive and hard to obtain. The booklet is free online, and is one of the most detailed booklets I've ever seen (and in 3 languages!): https://www.documuziekproductie.nl/images/uploads/cd_boekjes/BOHM_booklet.pdf
The organ on the last disc, Zandeweer is a highlight - not recorded on nearly enough. I like the extremely throaty and raspy principal sounds it has, although your mileage may vary.

I'm glad you like it, at the end of the day it's too solid, too straightforward, too weighty for me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on December 30, 2021, 12:45:33 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 29, 2021, 09:07:35 PM
I'm glad you like it, at the end of the day it's too solid, too straightforward, too weighty for me.

Who's recording of Böhm's organ works do you prefer?

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2021, 01:11:19 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 30, 2021, 12:45:33 AM
Who's recording of Böhm's organ works do you prefer?

Harald Vogel, Wim van Beek, Bernard Foccroulle.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwMTY4NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjUxNDY0OTJ9)

Nice to be reminded of these distinctive performances, which seem to me this evening - maybe it's my mood I don't know - to be less often marked by bravura and more often marked by a slight melancholy. I like that.

Whether anyone else will feel the same way, I can't say. What I think is undeniable is that Foccroulle communicates authenticity, he clearly cares about the music, he's not just going through the motions.

I think Auf meinen lieben gott is particularly successful - somehow Foccroulle's very fluid articulation - each phrase almost (but not quite) flowing seamlessly into the next - seems to come off very beautifully here. And his registrations are noble and yet human and warm too.

Good recording, full frequency, as they used to say - good for the subs. But with a proviso:  there's no sense of the Alkmaar church - it is quite closely miked. Some will see that as a good thing no doubt, but me, I like to hear the hall.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 30, 2021, 11:46:14 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwMTY4NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjUxNDY0OTJ9)

Nice to be reminded of these distinctive performances, which seem to me this evening - maybe it's my mood I don't know - to be less often marked by bravura and more often marked by a slight melancholy. I like that.

Whether anyone else will feel the same way, I can't say. What I think is undeniable is that Foccroulle communicates authenticity, he clearly cares about the music, he's not just going through the motions.

I think Auf meinen lieben gott is particularly successful - somehow Foccroulle's very fluid articulation - each phrase almost (but not quite) flowing seamlessly into the next - seems to come off very beautifully here. And his registrations are noble and yet human and warm too.

Good recording, full frequency, as they used to say - good for the subs. But with a proviso:  there's no sense of the Alkmaar church - it is quite closely miked. Some will see that as a good thing no doubt, but me, I like to hear the hall.

I see what you mean here, Foccroulle sounds measured and careful here, not relying on color and bravura like Tuinstra. I like the close miking a lot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 04, 2022, 09:57:53 PM
(https://assets.mmsrg.com/isr/166325/c1/-/ASSET_MMS_89431463/fee_786_587_png)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nJ7ELe6HPSPwUu5PzoMJKmAM9z44t_Uzw

Rui Fernando Soares playing Fischer and Kerll - just based on my first impressions, a bit of a mixed bag: interesting, rough sounding organ (one of the few Schnitgers exported to Portugal), playing maybe a little clumsy. Hearing the opening Toccata of Fischer's Uranie banged out on full plenum wasn't the best shock, but worth hearing for the organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on January 16, 2022, 07:22:55 PM
I would be interested in recommendations of recordings in which the organ is used as an accompanying instrument, or an instrument as part of a small ensemble (not really interested in organ + brass stuff). I have two recordings of the Vitali Chaconne--one with a wonderful accompaniment by the organ and played by Ricardo Odnoposoff (who I generally like--but Gioconda de Vito is by far my favorite here). Anything in which the organ substitutes for the usual piano would also be of interest!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 16, 2022, 08:19:12 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on January 16, 2022, 07:22:55 PM
I would be interested in recommendations of recordings in which the organ is used as an accompanying instrument, or an instrument as part of a small ensemble (not really interested in organ + brass stuff). I have two recordings of the Vitali Chaconne--one with a wonderful accompaniment by the organ and played by Ricardo Odnoposoff (who I generally like--but Gioconda de Vito is by far my favorite here). Anything in which the organ substitutes for the usual piano would also be of interest!


https://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/28339

https://www.discogs.com/release/8365154-C%C3%A9sar-Franck-Bertrand-Chamayou-Olivier-Latry-Royal-Scottish-National-Orchestra-St%C3%A9phane-Den%C3%A8ve-Fr (For the prelude, fugue and variations)

https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/prayer-voice-organ-kozena-5372

https://hyphenpress.co.uk/products/music/rosenkranzsonaten_1

https://www.discogs.com/release/10407940-Francisco-Correa-De-Arauxo-Louis-Thiry-Patrick-Bismuth-Tientos

https://www.discogs.com/release/13872561-William-Lawes-London-Baroque-Sonatas-For-Violin-And-Continuo

https://www.allmusic.com/album/vivaldi-sonate-e-concerti-mw0001873736

https://philipglass.com/recordings/voicesdidgeridooorgan_rec/

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: André Le Nôtre on January 16, 2022, 08:48:11 PM
Thanks, these look interesting. I'm listening to the first one now. The Sibelius is interesting!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 17, 2022, 05:36:25 AM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on January 16, 2022, 08:48:11 PM
Thanks, these look interesting. I'm listening to the first one now. The Sibelius is interesting!

You prompted me to investigate a bit and I discovered this today: a new look at Mahler!

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8678400--mahler-orchestral-songs-the-organ-transcriptions
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 28, 2022, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Don on February 24, 2008, 07:13:53 PM
The best Bruhns organ disc I know isn't all Bruhns - also has a few pieces of Hanff that are exceptional.  The disc is Loft Recordings 1012 and performed by William Porter on the Cathedral Organ at Roskilde; the organ was originally built in 1554 and sounds fantastic.  One of my treasured organ discs, and that includes Bach.  BUT, it might not be easy to find.



Listening to this, possibly for the first time, and possibly the first time that I've paid attention to Hanff, I have to agree with Don's assessment.

Porter makes everything he touches - Burns, Hanff, Scheidemann - sound more luxurious than fantastical. (that's not totally fair as the penultimate part of the Bruhns Nunn komm der heiden heiland starts up!)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyMjI2My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTN9)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 02, 2022, 12:46:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 28, 2022, 11:56:19 PM


Listening to this, possibly for the first time, and possibly the first time that I've paid attention to Hanff, I have to agree with Don's assessment.

Porter makes everything he touches - Burns, Hanff, Scheidemann - sound more luxurious than fantastical. (that's not totally fair as the penultimate part of the Bruhns Nunn komm der heiden heiland starts up!)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyMjI2My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTN9)

I like Hanff a lot, particularly his more penitential chorales like Erbarm dich mein or Ach Gott.

A favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7beKnJowQY
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Hans Holbein on March 02, 2022, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: André Le Nôtre on January 16, 2022, 07:22:55 PM
I would be interested in recommendations of recordings in which the organ is used as an accompanying instrument, or an instrument as part of a small ensemble (not really interested in organ + brass stuff). I have two recordings of the Vitali Chaconne--one with a wonderful accompaniment by the organ and played by Ricardo Odnoposoff (who I generally like--but Gioconda de Vito is by far my favorite here). Anything in which the organ substitutes for the usual piano would also be of interest!

Anner Bylsma and Bob van Asperen's recording of the Bach viola da gamba sonatas.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 03, 2022, 12:49:31 AM
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/f6f4337117e239809ec6334745d7beb8/500x500.jpg)

Titelouze Magnificat (1st tone) with chant,  Tuma at the keyboard, unusually prayerful and rapt. 18th century organ, restored, some sort of meantone tuning. I think it is the same organ as the one he used for the Biber sonatas. This is potentially an interesting release.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 03, 2022, 01:24:37 AM
Quote from: Hans Holbein on March 02, 2022, 10:14:18 PM
Anner Bylsma and Bob van Asperen's recording of the Bach viola da gamba sonatas.

However with the caveat that Bijlsma plays a violoncello piccolo and not a viola da gamba.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 03, 2022, 06:39:07 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 03, 2022, 12:49:31 AM
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/f6f4337117e239809ec6334745d7beb8/500x500.jpg)

Titelouze Magnificat (1st tone) with chant,  Tuma at the keyboard, unusually prayerful and rapt. 18th century organ, restored, some sort of meantone tuning. I think it is the same organ as the one he used for the Biber sonatas. This is potentially an interesting release.

And continuing with a Scheidt magnificat, very much in the same vein, quiet and introspective. The organ is sweet, velvety and characterful.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 08, 2022, 02:42:51 AM
Quote from: Selig on February 28, 2022, 06:07:09 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61d+jLGdf8L._SS500_.jpg)

Or does Gary Verkade wipe the floor with Berben?

Quote from: Mandryka on March 01, 2022, 08:43:41 AM
No, not in my opinion. For me it's a case of different perspectives. Verkade only plays the ricercars, as you know probably .

One key one to check is Ricercar 8. Berben tunes it down a tone to avoid harsh intervals on the meantone Luedingworth organ, he uses evidence from fretted clavichords of the period to justify this practice. I don't believe that Verklade tunes it down, he seems to positively relish the dissonance by playing it slowly.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 09, 2022, 10:54:47 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 08, 2022, 02:42:51 AM
One key one to check is Ricercar 8. Berben tunes it down a tone to avoid harsh intervals on the meantone Luedingworth organ, he uses evidence from fretted clavichords of the period to justify this practice. I don't believe that Verklade tunes it down, he seems to positively relish the dissonance by playing it slowly.

I think the difference is that the organ that Verklade is playing on has split sharps, allowing him to play more "correct" intervals.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on March 09, 2022, 11:14:12 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 09, 2022, 10:54:47 AM
I think the difference is that the organ that Verklade is playing on has split sharps, allowing him to play more "correct" intervals.

Ah yes, I remember those in Spanish organs. I didn't know the tradition extended into Sweden!

(Or am I confusing it with Medio registro? I think I may be!)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 09, 2022, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 09, 2022, 10:54:47 AM
I think the difference is that the organ that Verklade is playing on has split sharps, allowing him to play more "correct" intervals.

This would be exceptional on a Swedish organ, but you may know more than I about this.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on March 09, 2022, 05:56:18 PM

Gary Verkade recorded the Steigleder on the Grönlunds organ in Norrfjärden, a faithful reconstruction of the 17th century organ from the German church in Stockholm which still survives today, albeit modified and split up between 2 churches.

(http://larsmagnusson.nu/musik/photos-3/files/page15-1014-full.jpg)

Notice how the D#/Eflat is split into 2, allowing you to use the "correct" note. Somehow I thought this organ had more of these split sharps for different notes. I haven't listened to the ricercar in question, not sure if this single split sharp would be of that much help.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on March 10, 2022, 01:54:03 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 09, 2022, 05:56:18 PM
Gary Verkade recorded the Steigleder on the Grönlunds organ in Norrfjärden, a faithful reconstruction of the 17th century organ from the German church in Stockholm which still survives today, albeit modified and split up between 2 churches.

(http://larsmagnusson.nu/musik/photos-3/files/page15-1014-full.jpg)

Notice how the D#/Eflat is split into 2, allowing you to use the "correct" note. Somehow I thought this organ had more of these split sharps for different notes. I haven't listened to the ricercar in question, not sure if this single split sharp would be of that much help.

Thanks for the illumination. I know this organ from several recordings, but wasn't aware of this particular detail. One may wonder about the purpose of only making one single split.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 07, 2022, 07:27:10 AM
Attention gentlemen with subwoofers. 32' pipe alert! Well recorded, well played in the scholarly manner, good music

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODc5MjAwNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1OTIyMTE0NDF9)

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8792007--like-a-phoenix-from-the-ashes-an-organ-portrait
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on December 20, 2022, 04:51:11 PM
For Brahms organ works, what recordings do you recommend? It doesn't matter if it's complete or not. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on December 21, 2022, 02:54:57 PM
I listened to 8 interpretations of the first chorale from op 122, the eleven chorales being my favourites of Brahms organ music: Dahl, Lagacé, Richter, van Oortmerssen, Perkins, Athanasiades, Zacher, and Schmeding. On that limited basis, were I to choose one, it would be the Ootmerssen because, not only is it well recorded, but it has a requisite meditative quality that pins me to my seat. The Athanasiades is very fast and fluid with bells accompanying the bass line and is very nice sounding. The Zacher would be my choice were multichannel sound prerequisite.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on December 24, 2022, 08:23:28 AM
A friend brought 2 more recordings of the Brahms over: Bowyer's and Ghielmi's. The Bowyer is quick, but each voice so beautifully recorded, hard to fault- another worthy choice.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2023, 06:18:04 AM
A little bit of Titelouze . . . . on a gorgeous little reed organ!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpPWuBEojko&ab_channel=GerardvanReenen
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 21, 2023, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2023, 06:18:04 AMA little bit of Titelouze . . . . on a gorgeous little reed organ!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpPWuBEojko&ab_channel=GerardvanReenen

Thanks, very beautiful and introvert expressive (and of course no fuss with the registrations), much like his similarly introvert clavichord recording of Hexachordum Apollinis.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2023, 10:04:34 AM
Same harmonium, in some Pachelbel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xntpDTdnqlE&ab_channel=GerardvanReenen

https://soundcloud.com/user790271899/pachelbel-o-haupt-voll-blut-und-wunden-gerard-van-reenen
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 24, 2023, 03:05:23 AM
"Organ stops, saving the king of instruments"

Came across this documentary randomly last night on the BBC Iplayer, heart-breaking and heart-warming in equal measures, through the passion of this organ "rescuer". A good watch for those who can access it. Interesting to see the "innards" of organ for a newbie like me. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001gmv3/organ-stops-saving-the-king-of-instruments (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001gmv3/organ-stops-saving-the-king-of-instruments)

Description: Narrated by organ enthusiast Huw Edwards, Organ Stops follows a handful of eccentric devotees rescuing and restoring abandoned pipe organs from closing churches. As Martin Renshaw trawls churches for hidden gems in the form of precious instruments, he meets people like 95-year-old organist Blanche Beer, whose long life has been shaped by music and community.

In a Durham church, a wonderful organ is discovered that becomes the redemptive story at the heart of the film. The organ is saved and lovingly restored, becoming the musical heart of a vibrant church in London.

A poignant documentary about loss and rebirth, and the role music plays in our lives.


PS: You can rent the documentary on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/organstops (https://vimeo.com/ondemand/organstops)

PPS: For the UK viewers, it is a slightly odd hearing Huw Edwards (for non-UK, a famous BBC news presenter) narrating parts of the documentary. It turns out he is a keen organist himself and vice-president of the National Churches trust. Here is his article on his passion for organ and the works on churches and saving organs: https://www.nationalchurchestrust.org/news/organ-stops-huw-edwards-narrates-new-film-bbc (https://www.nationalchurchestrust.org/news/organ-stops-huw-edwards-narrates-new-film-bbc)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 31, 2023, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 20, 2023, 12:55:26 AM(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/2f9965_376ba28a451e4c648c77a1a52005eb07~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_700,h_628,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/CD%20Fugue%20%26%20Caprice%20mailing.jpg)

https://www.derijckereorgel.nl/cd

Quite surprised by how much I'm enjoying the pieces by Henri Du Mont.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 07, 2023, 12:18:11 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51i3u7%2BqF7L._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255%2C255%2C255.jpg)

Weir makes big claims for this set of a dozen fugues,  a sort of French AoF she says - and maybe she's got a point if we restrict things to the first published AoF. She slows things down, which reduces the feeling of the Italian style, and gives the music a special nobility. I think that was a good decision. The organ at Thionville, early 18th century, imported to Thionville from Metz,  is fine and is well recorded. It is a powerful and sensual organ. Weir's registrations are restrained, not at all symphonic, the overall feeling is of serious music. Sensual gravity.

 I think this is one of the great recordings of French organ music, and I think Roberday is probably a great composer of organ music.

https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgues/france/thionvillesm.html
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 08, 2023, 12:47:44 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 07, 2023, 12:18:11 AM(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51i3u7%2BqF7L._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255%2C255%2C255.jpg)

Weir makes big claims for this set of a dozen fugues,  a sort of French AoF she says - and maybe she's got a point if we restrict things to the first published AoF. She slows things down, which reduces the feeling of the Italian style, and gives the music a special nobility. I think that was a good decision. The organ at Thionville, early 18th century, imported to Thionville from Metz,  is fine and is well recorded. It is a powerful and sensual organ. Weir's registrations are restrained, not at all symphonic, the overall feeling is of serious music. Sensual gravity.

 I think this is one of the great recordings of French organ music, and I think Roberday is probably a great composer of organ music.

https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgues/france/thionvillesm.html

Your mention of the Kern orgel in Thionville made me think that Weir re-recorded the Roberday fugues, but I have not been able to find a new recording by her on that organ, and according to Presto this (according to the picture you have posted) is actually her old recording (Argo 1974 recently re-released by Eloquence) on the modern Kuhn organ of St. Leonhardt Basel. Once I owned it on LP.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9248437--gillian-weir-a-celebration-vol-7-roberday

https://orgel-basel.ch/de/orgeln/st-leonhard
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 01:29:37 AM
Quote from: premont on February 08, 2023, 12:47:44 AMYour mention of the Kern orgel in Thionville made me think that Weir re-recorded the Roberday fugues, but I have not been able to find a new recording by her on that organ, and according to Presto this (according to the picture you have posted) is actually her old recording (Argo 1974 recently re-released by Eloquence) on the modern Kuhn organ of St. Leonhardt Basel. Once I owned it on LP.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9248437--gillian-weir-a-celebration-vol-7-roberday

https://orgel-basel.ch/de/orgeln/st-leonhard

Oh!   I said it jumped to the conclusion it was at Thionville was because of the listing on France Orgue -- is it just a mistake?

https://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.fra.rch&org=weir&tit=&oeu=roberday&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Rechercher&edi=

I still think it's a great recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 08, 2023, 01:47:14 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 01:29:37 AMOh!  I said it jumped to the conclusion it was at Thionville was because of the listing on France Orgue -- is it just a mistake?

Yes a mistake. It's evidently the Basel recording. France-orgue isn't always correct.

Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 01:29:37 AMI still think it's a great recording.

I'm not sure that I have uploaded the Claude Terasse recording on the Sarlat organ of five of the pieces to you? And have you heard Isoir's recording or Eric Brottier's?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 03:14:23 AM
Quote from: premont on February 08, 2023, 01:47:14 AMYes a mistake. It's evidently the Basel recording. France-orgue isn't always correct.

I'm not sure that I have uploaded the Claude Terasse recording on the Sarlat organ of five of the pieces to you? And have you heard Isoir's recording or Eric Brottier's?

Yes I've heard both of these, but I don't think they detract from Weir's achievement in that recording, partly because of the gravitas she brings to the music.

I was prompted to go back to Roberday after listening to Berben's new CD.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 08, 2023, 06:15:41 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 03:14:23 AMpartly because of the gravitas she brings to the music.

This is not how I recall it - rather I found it somewhat leight-weight, but it is more than thirty years since I last heard it. I am going to re-acquire it, my taste may have changed since then.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 09:43:25 AM
I'd be really surprised if you didn't enjoy it @premont  -- it's been a constant source of pleasure for me for many years now.  But this may be a way for you to check before taking the plunge

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weir+roberday+
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 08, 2023, 10:11:05 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 09:43:25 AMI'd be really surprised if you didn't enjoy it @premont  -- it's been a constant source of pleasure for me for many years now.  But this may be a way for you to check before taking the plunge

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weir+roberday+

Thanx, but my - as to these things - impatient nature has forced me to acquire it already.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 09, 2023, 04:02:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2023, 09:43:25 AMI'd be really surprised if you didn't enjoy it premont (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=profile;u=24)  -- it's been a constant source of pleasure for me for many years now.  But this may be a way for you to check before taking the plunge

Having listened to the recording I admit that Weir's interpretation is more considered and weighty than I recalled, except for a few of the fugues (particularly no. eight) where her approach seems to contradict the character of the music. Maybe she doesn't look at the fugues as individual pieces but wants to play them in a contrasting (listener-friendly) sequence.

But most of all I have problems with the organ. I know that it is relatively new and constitutes a reconstruction of the original Andreas Silbermann organ which was lost. Despite this I think the organ sounds relatively generic - not French enough except for a few reed stops. Nowhere can I find information of the tuning, but my ears tell me that it is tuned close to equally (probably some late heavily modified meantone). In the case of Roberday I think pure meantone (1/4 comma) would be appropriate, and the tuning of this organ "neutralizes" Roberday's often very chromatic writing. Roberday's fugues predate Andreas Silbermann's active time with at least 40 years, and a Silbermann organ (or a copy thereof) may even be anachronistic for the music.

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 12, 2023, 01:45:27 AM
Does anyone know if Johan Caspar Ferdinand Fischer's Ariadne Musica is only doable on organ, or can it be played on a harpsichord like WTC? Anyway, listening now for the first time to Schoonbroodt's recording of the whole caboodle, though I've heard one or two excerpts played by Leonhardt. Bach, it is not, and I'm not sure I'll be able to get past F minor.  Leonhardt made the music sound more interesting I think.


(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d00001e02feff2062b23854c10a5b29bf)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 12, 2023, 01:58:10 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 12, 2023, 01:45:27 AMDoes anyone know if Johan Caspar Ferdinand Fischer's Ariadne Musica is only doable on organ, or can it be played on a harpsichord like WTC? Anyway, listening now for the first time to Schoonbroodt's recording of the whole caboodle, though I've heard one or two excerpts played by Leonhardt. Bach, it is not, and I'm not sure I'll be able to get past F minor.  Leonhardt made the music sound more interesting I think.


Pedal is prescribed in many of the pieces. But except this there is no reason why the work couldn't be played on a pedal harpsichord, as the many long organ points in the pedal may be re-percussed on harpsichord.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 12, 2023, 01:59:51 AM
Quote from: premont on February 12, 2023, 01:58:10 AMPedal is prescribed in many of the pieces. But except this there is no reason why the work couldn't be played on a pedal harpsichord, as the many long organ points in the pedal may be re-percussed on harpsichord.

Thanks - I've switched to Leonhardt's performance now and that's very good indeed. I'm reading a book by Gilles Cantagrel on Bach and he mentioned it in connection with WTC.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 12, 2023, 02:12:28 AM
Yes, it's obvious that Bach took some of his ideas of the WTC I from Fischer. More obvious than the ideas he might have taken from Dieupart for the English Suites.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: lordlance on April 15, 2023, 12:31:16 PM
Any recommendations for organ Concertos and symphonies that are generally more grandiose in sound?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: DavidW on April 15, 2023, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: lordlance on April 15, 2023, 12:31:16 PMAny recommendations for organ Concertos and symphonies that are generally more grandiose in sound?

Copland and Saint Saens immediately come to mind.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 15, 2023, 07:33:36 PM
Quote from: lordlance on April 15, 2023, 12:31:16 PMAny recommendations for organ Concertos and symphonies that are generally more grandiose in sound?

Vivaldi, JC Bach, Haendel, Dupré, Guilmant, Poulenc
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: lordlance on April 15, 2023, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 15, 2023, 07:33:36 PMVivaldi, JC Bach, Haendel, Dupré, Guilmant, Poulenc

I don't bother with baroque music because it sounds so emotionally inhibited to me; the writing fails to be as charged as Romantic music. I am rather tepid on JC Bach overall. I have heard some Guilmant and the Poulenc concerto.

Quote from: DavidW on April 15, 2023, 01:39:51 PMCopland and Saint Saens immediately come to mind.

I will add Copland. I've already heard the Saint-Saens.

Any more suggestions are welcomed.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 15, 2023, 11:47:08 PM
It's not quite what you had in mind @lordlance but have you tried the symphonies for solo organ by Vierne and Widor? With a Cavaillé Coll organ you really don't need an orchestra to write a symphony -  the point of the machine is to be a keyboard orchestra!

I remember as a child hearing a Widor solo organ symphony on the wireless and not being able to believe my ears, because of the harmonies and the timbres! The organ part in the later Widor symphonies for orchestra and organ is nice enough too - his symphony sacra. Just spoilt by the conventional orchestral writing for me.

By the way, isn't it strange that there's nothing in this genre by Liszt? Or Brahms? My own feeling is that Cavaillé Coll made France the organ symphony capital of the universe!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: lordlance on April 16, 2023, 01:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 15, 2023, 11:47:08 PMIt's not quite what you had in mind @lordlance but have you tried the symphonies for solo organ by Vierne and Widor? With a Cavaillé Coll organ you really don't need an orchestra to write a symphony -  the point of the machine is to be a keyboard orchestra!

I remember as a child hearing a Widor solo organ symphony on the wireless and not being able to believe my ears, because of the harmonies and the timbres! The organ part in the later Widor symphonies for orchestra and organ is nice enough too - his symphony sacra. Just spoilt by the conventional orchestral writing for me.

By the way, isn't it strange that there's nothing in this genre by Liszt? Or Brahms? My own feeling is that Cavaillé Coll made France the organ symphony capital of the universe!

It's strange that Brahms or Liszt didn't write symphonies for organ solo/orchestra or organ Concertos? Not really. It's not as popular a genre as the big three - violin, cello and piano. It's actually a niche to be honest.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: VonStupp on April 16, 2023, 05:34:24 AM
Quote from: lordlance on April 15, 2023, 12:31:16 PMAny recommendations for organ Concertos and symphonies that are generally more grandiose in sound?

If you haven't searched for it already, @vandermolen started a thread of Favorite Works for Organ and Orchestra (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31234) which has some wonderful suggestions.

Myself, Richard Strauss' Festival Prelude is right up there, and Khachaturian's Symphony 3 is a hoot!
VS
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: JBS on April 17, 2023, 08:04:28 PM
[Crosspost from WAYLT2]

Finishing this set tonight with the second of two CDs devoted to concerto transcriptions.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Q8lO7sxtL._UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51o4QRqsQOL._UX420_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)

The Brilliant version is the one I have; it is apparently OOP.
The green covered version is available on Amazon US for strraming or downloading, but it does not have the concerto transcriptions, which is why it's only 10 CDs.

Overall I liked the music more than I did before. The core of the set is 9 CDs in a row of chorale settings, arranged alphabetically from A to W. [Walther wrote no settings for chorales starting with X,Y, or Z, it would seem.] Stella gives enough variation among the settings that it doesn't bore.

The first CD of the set are free-form works, in the same tradition as Bach's.

Overall, I would say if you can find the Brilliant set at a reasonable price, get it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: lordlance on April 18, 2023, 06:58:53 AM
Is the reason why organ music used to be much more commonly written for during baroque related to church music being more important back then?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on April 18, 2023, 10:39:03 AM
The uses of organ music

1. Something to listen to when you come into church and when you leave.
2. In some countries, there was a tradition of playing organ during a service. I guess it was also used in some secular ceremonies.
3. Something to listen to in the interval of a theatrical piece or in a circus, or when you enter or leave the venue.
4. Domestic music, people had little organs at home
5. Part of machinery like clocks, automata
6. For playing in concert halls.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 18, 2023, 10:56:49 AM
Quote from: lordlance on April 18, 2023, 06:58:53 AMIs the reason why organ music used to be much more commonly written for during baroque related to church music being more important back then?

I think you are right, since very much of the surviving organ music from the baroque age is sacred service related.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 28, 2023, 05:57:36 PM
Vierne - Keiko Nakata. I don't know what she's trying to do. Also I heard that she released a Bach organ album, but can't find it.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on April 29, 2023, 12:35:09 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 28, 2023, 05:57:36 PMVierne - Keiko Nakata. I don't know what she's trying to do. Also I heard that she released a Bach organ album, but can't find it.





https://www.grooves-inc.com/keiko-nakata-joy-bach-arcantus-cd-pZZa1-2097947160.html

or:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8668770--bach-joy-of-bach
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 29, 2023, 01:24:15 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 28, 2023, 05:57:36 PMVierne - Keiko Nakata. I don't know what she's trying to do. Also I heard that she released a Bach organ album, but can't find it.





From the image above - it looks like she can't find it either......  You've had "air guitar" - time for "air organ"
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 29, 2023, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: premont on April 29, 2023, 12:35:09 AMhttps://www.grooves-inc.com/keiko-nakata-joy-bach-arcantus-cd-pZZa1-2097947160.html

or:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8668770--bach-joy-of-bach


Thank you! Very helpful!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2023, 12:19:39 AM
(https://i.discogs.com/Im-juErLCKhWny-hUi9UzwTeP5iJ_24h0s0npoGHbIg/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:467/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE0OTk5/OTE0LTE1ODUzMzM1/NjUtNDY4My5qcGVn.jpeg)

This one has really caught my attention!

Does anyone have his recording of the Bach trio sonatas?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on May 06, 2023, 12:26:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 06, 2023, 12:19:39 AM(https://i.discogs.com/Im-juErLCKhWny-hUi9UzwTeP5iJ_24h0s0npoGHbIg/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:467/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE0OTk5/OTE0LTE1ODUzMzM1/NjUtNDY4My5qcGVn.jpeg)

This one has really caught my attention!

Does anyone have his recording of the Bach trio sonatas?

Have it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on May 06, 2023, 03:04:03 AM
Quote from: Harry on May 06, 2023, 12:26:04 AMHave it.

What do you think of it? I don't have it, but what I have with him (Bach Inventions, Fischer Ariadne Musica among others) strikes me as being somewhat colorless.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Harry on May 12, 2023, 01:07:16 AM
Quote from: premont on May 06, 2023, 03:04:03 AMWhat do you think of it? I don't have it, but what I have with him (Bach Inventions, Fischer Ariadne Musica among others) strikes me as being somewhat colorless.

Sorry Poul for not answering earlier, but I only saw this posting today. This recording is in a container so not at home, must go and find it back again, when found, I report on it. But since I bought it, I must have found some, or much merit in it, otherwise I would have passed this one.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: david515mi on May 12, 2023, 02:55:38 AM
The Jongen Symphonie Concertante.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on May 13, 2023, 12:13:06 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Rp2OomDEL._AC_.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00023P3HA/ref=dm_rwpmb_pur_lnd_albm_fr

Even those who are normally allergic to French baroque organ music may find it worthwhile to  give this recording by Bruno Beaufils a go, because it's quite interesting organologically. St Pierre d'Oleron is in Charente Maritime, the organ is genuinely baroque, chiff in spades, you can hear the patina on the pipes. I can't find anything online about it apart from this - though the Wikipedia French page for Oleron has some information too.

https://inventaire-des-orgues.fr/detail/orgue-saint-pierre-doleron-eglise-saint-pierre-fr-17385-ssole-stpier1-x/
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Pierre-d%27Ol%C3%A9ron

In the Montreal Organ Book material, Beaufils is not as eloquent as Ken Gilbert - but Gilbert is playing a much more anonymous modern organ.   
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 21, 2023, 11:50:10 PM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41gyi+l+VIL.jpg)

A really distinctive performance of Kuhnau's David and Goliath from Ullrich Boehme on this one, not least because of the contrasting organ timbres and wide dynamic range  - a performance which can't be unheard! The organ is at a place called Pfaffroda in Saxony, Europe is full of hidden organ gems!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on June 29, 2023, 04:21:33 AM
(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-7dWAMzH4zjE6UArx-AOnyag-t500x500.jpg)

Little organ, I can't find what it is, it sounds modern and attractive, not at all faceless. The performance is generally quite dancing, basic pulse in evidence. Often quite introspective in feeling too.

Anyway the pulse was too much for me, so I've rushed to take refuge in Rübsam.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 14, 2023, 11:06:47 PM

(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000132678292-iwj7mj-t500x500.jpg)

The Radeker organ at Anloo sounds quite colourful and intimate, it would be interesting to hear it used for Renaissance music  - it reminds me a little of Huis organ at Kantens. Westerbrink is playing the usuals - Scheidemann, Scheidt and of course Tunder. Altogether my appreciation is growing tremendously by hearing his music "in context" and so so well played and recorded. Very glad to have these recordings.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 14, 2023, 11:07:00 PM
(https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/uomyWeHqsGD7ZpkGBYdoqILjQmE/diocontent/154258578/_fitwidth/1240?appId=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.9&desiredformat=webp)

A fabulous big 7 verse Es ist das Heil uns kommen her by Weckmann - colourful without being gaudily symphonic, lots of contrasts between the verses - from grand and powerful, at times luxurious, and at times  sweet and almost delicate. The overall impression is of a totally inhabited, involved, deeply felt performance. There's nothing rote about it, it's poetic. 

Peter Westerbrink can control the Groningen Schnitger,  and the engineers have recorded it pretty well - big bass included.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 15, 2023, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2023, 11:06:47 PM(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000132678292-iwj7mj-t500x500.jpg)

The Radeker organ at Anloo sounds quite colourful and intimate, it would be interesting to hear it used for Renaissance music  - it reminds me a little of Huis organ at Kantens. Westerbrink is playing the usuals - Scheidemann, Scheidt and of course Tunder. Altogether my appreciation is growing tremendously by hearing his music "in context" and so so well played and recorded. Very glad to have these recordings.

. . . and really impressive sound and performance on the Noordbroek Schnitger on this CD. This may be my favourite Dutch organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 29, 2023, 11:09:15 PM
(https://sacredmusic.nd.edu/assets/502553/kola_owolabi_cd_georg_muffat_appartus_musico_organistus_cover_final_small.jpg)

For some reason, possibly not an interesting one, I'm getting a much greater sense of the variety Muffat's toccatas than I have done listening to other recordings. The counterpoint also seems more striking too. I'm also finding myself wanting to hear the whole thing, which is rare for me - I have a short attention span. I'd say this is a performance well worth a listen.

The organ is a biggie and it's very well recorded, tight low notes and lots of character.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 30, 2023, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2023, 11:09:15 PM(https://sacredmusic.nd.edu/assets/502553/kola_owolabi_cd_georg_muffat_appartus_musico_organistus_cover_final_small.jpg)

For some reason, possibly not an interesting one, I'm getting a much greater sense of the variety Muffat's toccatas than I have done listening to other recordings. The counterpoint also seems more striking too. I'm also finding myself wanting to hear the whole thing, which is rare for me - I have a short attention span. I'd say this is a performance well worth a listen.

The organ is a biggie and it's very well recorded, tight low notes and lots of character.

Interesting, I found the playing to be reserved - maybe too much so - and the bigger of the two organs to also be on the faceless side. But again, I might fall in love after a few more listens :)

Here's a recording of the Apparatus, not recent at all (2004) but that I recently found that I liked a lot - Tobias Lindner at Irsee abbey https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kNjuo1Zw2pThMXyXR6mB4hFHIuSvklFWc
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 30, 2023, 11:08:23 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2023, 11:09:15 PM(https://sacredmusic.nd.edu/assets/502553/kola_owolabi_cd_georg_muffat_appartus_musico_organistus_cover_final_small.jpg)

For some reason, possibly not an interesting one, I'm getting a much greater sense of the variety Muffat's toccatas than I have done listening to other recordings. The counterpoint also seems more striking too. I'm also finding myself wanting to hear the whole thing, which is rare for me - I have a short attention span. I'd say this is a performance well worth a listen.

The organ is a biggie and it's very well recorded, tight low notes and lots of character.

Who can say? I was just in the mood for Muffat yesterday I guess. I must have been because I didn't even notice there were two organs till you mentioned it!  He made me focus on the music not the instrument. It's a great great sequence of toccatas.

Kola  back on now. Still feel the same, still good. In a way it's not a good thing to post about this sort of thing, it is so subjective. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on August 30, 2023, 11:13:40 PM
Oh, squid- any other interesting organ discs released in 2023?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 02, 2023, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 30, 2023, 11:13:40 PMOh, squid- any other interesting organ discs released in 2023?
How about this one? I like the van Soldt and Arauxo on here https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lRkBZO7ZqUuB_YG6Y70dvGDGhTtwu10Nc

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91ml3EkOiuL._UXNaN_FMjpg_QL85_.jpg)
Arnaud De Pasquale plays organs in Oaxaca. New release, but barely anything informative online.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 03, 2023, 12:31:53 AM
Yes excellent. I really like the anonymous dances. My favourite Latin American organ recording I think.

A couple more interesting ones - Ferruccio Bartolleti's Italianate Buxtehude (which I love unconditionally) , and Massimiliano Sanca's intriguing marmite - his studious and restrained Bach. There's also a new recording of Catalonian baroque music by Andres Céa - but I thought the music was a bit challenging on first listen, must revisit.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on September 03, 2023, 07:50:50 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2023, 12:31:53 AMA couple more interesting ones - Ferruccio Bartolleti's Italianate Buxtehude (which I love unconditionally) , and Massimiliano Sanca's intriguing marmite - his studious and restrained Bach. There's also a new recording of Catalonian baroque music by Andres Céa - but I thought the music was a bit challenging on first listen, must revisit.

Bartoletti's Buxtehude is unknown to me - shall rectify this - but I did enjoy his Bach toccatas even if played on a modern Italian organ. As to Massimiliano Sanca's Bach I find the triosonatas unusual and exciting, whereas his other Bach is a bit too heavy going for me. Cea's Cabanilles was a bit underwhelming, but the Catalonian music CD may be interesting - if nothing else because of the music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 06, 2023, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2023, 12:31:53 AMA couple more interesting ones - Ferruccio Bartolleti's Italianate Buxtehude (which I love unconditionally) , and Massimiliano Sanca's intriguing marmite - his studious and restrained Bach. There's also a new recording of Catalonian baroque music by Andres Céa - but I thought the music was a bit challenging on first listen, must revisit.
The Bartolleti Buxtehude is new to me too - but I haven't found it very interesting and the organ does not sound very convincing to me in this sort of music. I'm curious what you like about it!
Sanca's Bach I do like a lot.

Have you heard much of Manuel Tomadin's latest releases? He has a recording at Leens as well as a new Trio sonatas recording. Nice playing, even if not the most inspired, and on of course beautiful instruments.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k7gGz3BLRmMuwBeCHJN5iTQwYbjzWaPzI
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nrdATHlB9CVV9IS5naPXnPCbgIlDoh84k
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 06, 2023, 07:53:03 PM
In the Bartolleti, I enjoyed the sound and the selection I think. I'm not normally a great Buxtehudeian so was in a way quite surprised by how positively I responded.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 10, 2023, 10:15:00 PM
Hardly new news, but I very much enjoyed Pieter van Dijk and Krzysztof Urbaniak's reserved but still colorful Sweelinck at Alkmaar and Olkusz. Recordings sort of in the line of Glossa Sweelinck (which van Dijk and the Alkmaar organ are on), but the Olkusz organ is a real rarity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MSVFD2XKZw&list=OLAK5uy_mwJcLYKRBx1vXbydCFKV2sZdiqpKzsyzM&index=11
(https://dmp-records.nl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Cover-front-DVH-140363.png)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 10, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2023, 12:31:53 AMand Massimiliano Sanca's intriguing marmite - his studious and restrained Bach.

Sanca reminds me of Piet Wiersma. But maybe a little more cautious/carefully thought out, and definitely without the advantage of the very charming organs in Groningen. But I am enjoying Sanca's recordings a lot.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 10, 2023, 11:37:17 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 10, 2023, 10:20:45 PMSanca reminds me of Piet Wiersma. But maybe a little more cautious/carefully thought out, and definitely without the advantage of the very charming organs in Groningen. But I am enjoying Sanca's recordings a lot.

I'm listening to v.3 of the 17th century music CDs now. What do you know about Adriano Banchieri? The Suonata Terza has caught my imagination!

WTF is a suonata!??
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 10, 2023, 11:47:54 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 10, 2023, 10:15:00 PMHardly new news, but I very much enjoyed Pieter van Dijk and Krzysztof Urbaniak's reserved but still colorful Sweelinck at Alkmaar and Olkusz. Recordings sort of in the line of Glossa Sweelinck (which van Dijk and the Alkmaar organ are on), but the Olkusz organ is a real rarity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MSVFD2XKZw&list=OLAK5uy_mwJcLYKRBx1vXbydCFKV2sZdiqpKzsyzM&index=11
(https://dmp-records.nl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Cover-front-DVH-140363.png)

I haven't heard that one but I like Van Dijk's Glossa Sweelinck a lot. Serious but sweet. But then I like everyone's Sweelinck a lot!

It's ages since I last heard anything played by Urbaniak - will correct that soon. I have an entire recital at Olkusz, which I think you gave me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 13, 2023, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 10, 2023, 11:47:54 PMIt's ages since I last heard anything played by Urbaniak - will correct that soon. I have an entire recital at Olkusz, which I think you gave me.
I really like this recording by him. I think "serious but sweet" applies to his playing as well.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lvQKLfh_DkZuFsDE1Eme8mwppXcHMxcdI
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Vwrr0b+iL._UXNaN_FMjpg_QL85_.jpg)

Some nice stuff in here (not sure who is playing what) as well.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kgkxIbOInRX08iZmRsZxUGwPHmvY_XJvM
(https://ecsmedia.pl/c/303-years-ago-in-paslek-portrait-of-an-extraordinary-organ-b-iext127767829.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 17, 2023, 01:28:05 AM
@bioluminescentsquid I listened to Urbaniak at Olkusz , the one with the Siefert and Merula. It's excellent. I really enjoyed the Andreas Neunhaber choral.  I  It sounds like a big powerful organ, but he lightens the sound of it with colours, and I think it sounds noble and beautiful.  I'd like to hear some Spanish baroque music on it. And I'd love to hear more Neunhaber!


I'm going to get out some other recordings of Polish organs soon - Jaroslav Tuma.

Now listening to Martin Rost on the Stralsund Stellwagen - for  reasons which will become obvious when you check the recording.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 20, 2023, 04:52:59 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 17, 2023, 01:28:05 AM@bioluminescentsquid
I'm going to get out some other recordings of Polish organs soon - Jaroslav Tuma.

Now listening to Martin Rost on the Stralsund Stellwagen - for  reasons which will become obvious when you check the recording.

Have you heard the Neunhaber on Westerbrink's recording at Norden for his Tunder series?
Jaroslav Tůma - love him, although he's Czech rather than Polish :)
Really I can't think of many recordings on organs that are similar to Olkusz - Olkusz is one of the best preserved examples and has only recently seen a comprehensive restoration, most other ones are in much less good shape.
This recording does come to mind - not sure if you are familiar with it or not.
(https://die-orgelseite.de/cdshop/MOT_13461a.jpg)
Dulcis Memoria by Marcin Szelest - an assortment of earlier 16th century music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 20, 2023, 04:57:40 PM
There's this other recording at Olkusz, the organ being used as a continuo instrument. Also very beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_liC9uIDp7rWQbXVFYEcOzIlGWPWP0BP2c
(https://www.organy-olkusz.pl/images/dyskografia/2018piechradziszewskaurbaniak.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on September 21, 2023, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 06, 2023, 07:53:03 PMIn the Bartolleti, I enjoyed the sound and the selection I think. I'm not normally a great Buxtehudeian so was in a way quite surprised by how positively I responded.

Having explored Bartoletti's Buxtehude CD I find much to enjoy. In particular I think he has a fine grasp of the improvisatory character of the choral-free works (one is reminded that an important part of Buxtehude's inspiration was Italian toccatas) but also the chorals are beautifully realized. And sonically the organ is well reproduced. My only problem is the used Italian baroque organ, which doesn't sound North German at all. However the organ is for other reasons organicologically interesting. Thanks @Mandryka for drawing my attention this recording.

https://it.wikibooks.org/wiki/Disposizioni_foniche_di_organi_a_canne/Italia/Liguria/Provincia_della_Spezia/Porto_Venere/Fezzano_-_Chiesa_di_San_Giovanni_Battista
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on September 23, 2023, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 30, 2023, 11:13:40 PMOh, squid- any other interesting organ discs released in 2023?
Good new releases - how could I forget this one?
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3507770474_10.jpg)
https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/john-bull-organ-works-of-the-early-period-2
Phantasmagorical Bull at Oosthuizen

Also you've surely seen this but Leon Berben's van Noordt at Leiden - curious about thoughts on this.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ns1_7eUHRdeyh-D-ABSYd8D0zr4V4rHYU
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on September 23, 2023, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 23, 2023, 11:28:24 AMGood new releases - how could I forget this one?
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3507770474_10.jpg)
https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/john-bull-organ-works-of-the-early-period-2
Phantasmagorical Bull at Oosthuizen

Also you've surely seen this but Leon Berben's van Noordt at Leiden - curious about thoughts on this.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ns1_7eUHRdeyh-D-ABSYd8D0zr4V4rHYU


Is that the longest Walsingham Vars ever?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 08, 2023, 12:38:12 PM
New release of a recording at the organ of Loppersum, played by Vincent van Laar. Exceptional organ in generous acoustics; van Laar generally shies away from bigger registrations to show off the colors of individual stops. Classic "dutch style" playing on the conservative side, the music is a mixed bag of renaissance dances, some interesting fantasias by Bull, Tallis, Gibbons etc, Strungk and Buxtehude, and some terrible galant style stuff.
(https://erfgoedpartners.nl/webshop/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Cover-cd-hoes-Lopster-pracht.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nN5dqTvJ5cqIJIu7iFAuOptHDz3-Xmf5k
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 17, 2023, 11:05:52 PM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Pr08MEvTL._AC_SL1450_.jpg)

Sydney Sussex College Organ, Cantab. Great sound! Really noble and stylish performances.

 If the organ had been a bit more characterful like Levy-Noisette's organ. then this would have been a major release, not that the Cambridge organ is bad in any way, and it's baroque inspired. I don't want to be a grump. It's good to have this one.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 19, 2023, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on September 23, 2023, 11:28:24 AMGood new releases - how could I forget this one?
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3507770474_10.jpg)
https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/john-bull-organ-works-of-the-early-period-2
Phantasmagorical Bull at Oosthuizen


Bull's music is by nature phantasmagorical - actually my choice of word would be trippy. He's an English late Renaissance Professor Bad Trip.

Interesting to see it's oriented around "early Bull" - I've never thought about his musical development.  Did Michael Bennett write anything about it for the release?

I'm not sure what to make of this recording, I find it slightly discombobulating, and he certainly doesn't take any prisoners. Tough music. All that's not necessarily to the bad of course - you could say that there's no  need for sweetness, I'm just not yet hearing what it is that Bennett brings to the table.

Bottom line: it's  not easy to listen to.

(He must be committed - how much does it cost to make a recording at Oosthuizen? Who paid?)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 21, 2023, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 19, 2023, 09:05:56 AMBull's music is by nature phantasmagorical - actually my choice of word would be trippy. He's an English late Renaissance Professor Bad Trip.

Interesting to see it's oriented around "early Bull" - I've never thought about his musical development.  Did Michael Bennett write anything about it for the release?

I'm not sure what to make of this recording, I find it slightly discombobulating, and he certainly doesn't take any prisoners. Tough music. All that's not necessarily to the bad of course - you could say that there's no  need for sweetness, I'm just not yet hearing what it is that Bennett brings to the table.

Bottom line: it's  not easy to listen to.

(He must be committed - how much does it cost to make a recording at Oosthuizen? Who paid?)
No booklet notes, as far as I can see.

He just released a recording of Scheidemann at Tangermünde, curious about your thoughts.
https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/heinrich-scheidemann-mascarada-2

(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1963206364_10.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 21, 2023, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 21, 2023, 01:58:03 PMNo booklet notes, as far as I can see.

He just released a recording of Scheidemann at Tangermünde, curious about your thoughts.
https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/heinrich-scheidemann-mascarada-2

(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1963206364_10.jpg)

https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/heinrich-scheidemann-mascarada-2

Thanks - also this 

https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/grandiers-drone

Presumably his own label. I'm just struck by a conversation I had with Rübsam where he talked about the prohibitive cost of recording on great European baroque organs!

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2023, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 17, 2023, 11:05:52 PM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Pr08MEvTL._AC_SL1450_.jpg)

Sydney Sussex College Organ, Cantab. Great sound! Really noble and stylish performances.

 If the organ had been a bit more characterful like Levy-Noisette's organ. then this would have been a major release, not that the Cambridge organ is bad in any way, and it's baroque inspired. I don't want to be a grump. It's good to have this one.

I actually like the performer-organ pairing here. The organ is nice sounding but also feels very "neutral," like a blank slate that brings out the cleanness and liveliness of the playing. Same with "The Virtuoso Organist" which is recorded on the same organ. For more interesting organs, there's obviously Berben at Oosthuizen and Patrick Aryton at Krewerd which I especially like a lot - although maybe we can agree that more organists should be recording Byrd.

Levy-Noisette is maybe a little too colorful! Somehow for me it distracts from the nobility of the music.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2023, 12:29:48 AM
What do you make of the tuning of the Breteuil organ in My Lady Nevell's Ground? I think it's pure meantone - but it's slightly more than I can handle in that piece.

Bennett reminds me of Jane Chapman. Simple, sober and a constant forward motion. Never restful, relaxing.

I'm enjoying some of the registrations in Jonathan Bennett's Scheidemann - in the 7th magnificat opening for example. And it's a really good thing that he's unearthed the Lüneberg tablature preludes (especially the first)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 23, 2023, 07:32:42 PM
Breteuil does seem to be in meantone or at least a strong Ordinaire. The pretty strong tremulant is used in the ground which might be part of what's giving the seasickness.
The recording actually reminds me of Leon Berben's John Bull - that very distinctive nasal 17th century French organ sound. Both the playing and organ are more charming there (I also like the selection of music - in nomines - more, not as much of all the dances and ditties Levy-Noisette has) but even then I have to be in the mood for it. Yes, on good days it is truly psychedelic.

Not sure I would call Bennett simple and sober, exactly the opposite to me!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2023, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on October 23, 2023, 07:32:42 PMNot sure I would call Bennett simple and sober, exactly the opposite to me!

I know, I know, and I hesitated while writing that. It's the rhythm I was really thinking of - no obvious rubato. I just get the feeling of someone moving forward strongly, with momentum. Have a listen to Jane Chapman if you can get hold of it and you're in the mood for French harpsichord music - she's a bit  challenging, iconoclastic even.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 24, 2023, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 19, 2023, 09:05:56 AMBull's music is by nature phantasmagorical - actually my choice of word would be trippy. He's an English late Renaissance Professor Bad Trip.

Do you mean psychedelic?

Quote from: Mandryka on October 19, 2023, 09:05:56 AMI'm not sure what to make of this recording, I find it slightly discombobulating, and he certainly doesn't take any prisoners. Tough music. All that's not necessarily to the bad of course - you could say that there's no  need for sweetness, I'm just not yet hearing what it is that Bennett brings to the table.

I haven't heard the recording in question, but I know that feeling from other recordings of Bull's organ music by Kevin Komisaruk, Leon Berben's In Nomine recordings and most of all Étienne Baillot. I find Bull's music disorienting to a certain extent, as if some points of reference are missing. Therefore, there are limits to how much this music can engage me.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 24, 2023, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 17, 2023, 11:05:52 PM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Pr08MEvTL._AC_SL1450_.jpg)

Sydney Sussex College Organ, Cantab. Great sound! Really noble and stylish performances.

 If the organ had been a bit more characterful like Levy-Noisette's organ. then this would have been a major release, not that the Cambridge organ is bad in any way, and it's baroque inspired. I don't want to be a grump. It's good to have this one.

I do not hold back from calling this recording a gem, expertly played on a fittingly small organ with stops, which I obviously find more characterful than you do. Naturally, the organ lacks a certain patina, but Byrd must also be presumed to have sometimes played on newly built organs.

https://www.taylorandboody.com/opus_pages/opus_66/organ_photo_gallery.html
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 24, 2023, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: premont on October 24, 2023, 11:59:21 AMDo you mean psychedelic?

I haven't heard the recording in question, but I know that feeling from other recordings of Bull's organ music by Kevin Komisaruk, Leon Berben's In Nomine recordings and most of all Étienne Baillot. I find Bull's music disorienting to a certain extent, as if some points of reference are missing. Therefore, there are limits to how much this music can engage me.

Yes, trippy is psychedelic - but maybe the word isn't right. Bennett's not kaleidoscopic  like the paradigm acid trip, but he is disturbingly intense like an acid trip.

On the whole I've got on much better with Bull on harpsichord. Here's Lydia Maria Blanc playing an In Nomine - slowly (like with the Byrd Pavans)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRBIXFraMw&t=2s
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 24, 2023, 12:56:02 PM
Eureka! Here's how to play Bull on an organ. Colin Tilney plays the In Nomine IX - as slowly as Lydia Maria Blanc -  the last track here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljwcJ0tsrAs
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on October 24, 2023, 02:54:42 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 24, 2023, 12:45:53 PMOn the whole I've got on much better with Bull on harpsichord.

The same with me. Maybe the actual harpsichordists have a better feeling for Bull.

Quote from: Mandryka on October 24, 2023, 12:45:53 PMHere's Lydia Maria Blanc playing an In Nomine - slowly (like with the Byrd Pavans)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRBIXFraMw&t=2s

Thanks for finding this.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 24, 2023, 11:09:35 PM
Stephen Farr's Magnificat compilation CD is excellent. The Christ Church Oxford organ is very impressive (I have heard it in the college many times.) It is a good organ for counterpoint, Farr can drive it, and the Meridian engineers have done an excellent job.

Much to my surprise, he makes a sequence of 8 Pachelbel fugues sound like varied, expressive and rather beautiful music, he musters fire when needed in the  Buxtehude, sensual in the Guilain .  . .


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3ODc2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzI0MTUwMTd9)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 28, 2023, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: premont on October 24, 2023, 11:59:21 AMI haven't heard the recording in question, but I know that feeling from other recordings of Bull's organ music by Kevin Komisaruk, Leon Berben's In Nomine recordings and most of all Étienne Baillot. I find Bull's music disorienting to a certain extent, as if some points of reference are missing. Therefore, there are limits to how much this music can engage me.

I particularly like Étienne Baillot's Bull - the nobility and subtlety of it. I think this music is colorful and confusing enough in itself that it actually benefits from a relatively straightforward delivery. As in, maybe there's limited utility in gilding the lily. I do think the fantasias and plainchant-based works do equally well on organ and harpsichord.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 30, 2023, 12:35:29 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51jJICEUStL.jpg)

Big French organ, you'll be glad of your subwoofers, Mollau in Haut-Rhin, 19th century instrument. Werner Jacob on excellent form, intense and mystical playing. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Elk on October 31, 2023, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 30, 2023, 12:35:29 AM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51jJICEUStL.jpg)

Big French organ, you'll be glad of your subwoofers, Mollau in Haut-Rhin, 19th century instrument. Werner Jacob on excellent form, intense and mystical playing. 

Thanks for reminding me of this recording which I have ignored since I first heard it because it bored me. I was in a much more receptive mood last night I guess and enjoyed it thoroughly from beginning to end. I must admit though I was waiting for the bass to wow me. It could be the level in which I have adjusted it; however, the bass was just there. I have many other recordings where the bass seems better balanced to the mids and treble IMHO and some indeed where the bass is recorded too loudly.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on October 31, 2023, 06:27:21 AM
Quote from: Elk on October 31, 2023, 04:19:10 AMThanks for reminding me of this recording which I have ignored since I first heard it because it bored me. I was in a much more receptive mood last night I guess and enjoyed it thoroughly from beginning to end. I must admit though I was waiting for the bass to wow me. It could be the level in which I have adjusted it; however, the bass was just there. I have many other recordings where the bass seems better balanced to the mids and treble IMHO and some indeed where the bass is recorded too loudly.

Hello Elk! Long time no see.

I think it was the first track, or maybe the second, where I thought to myself "hmm . . . glad I've got subs!"

I also listened to the whole CD -- something I rarely do. When Werner Jacob is on form, he really is a bit special!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 01, 2023, 12:24:51 AM
Just listened to a handful of recordings of Bull's Salve Regina - Cuckson, Winsemius, Baillot, Kenneth Gilbert, Scott Ross.

Some seemed slightly playful(Cuckson, and maybe Gilbert), some are fast and intense (Ross), some are sweet and serious (Winsemius)

Ross uses a fabulous organ, at Cuers in the Var - I've put a link to it. How could I have been to the Var so often and not heard this organ?! That's the performance which I'll remember most I think - I need to explore the CD more I think.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qmicDVk1L._SX342_SY445_.jpg)

https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgues/france/cuers.html

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 03, 2023, 12:42:24 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 30, 2023, 12:35:29 AMBig French organ, you'll be glad of your subwoofers, Mollau in Haut-Rhin, 19th century instrument. Werner Jacob on excellent form, intense and mystical playing. 

It took me a while to warm to this (and maybe get over my first impression skepticism - Pachelbel on a 19th century French organ??) but you're right, beautiful recording. The playing is old-school, disciplined and serious, but still contains a surprising amount of nuance (for instance in the Aria Sebaldina).
Have you heard Helmut Winter at Trebel?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 04, 2023, 04:35:52 AM
Just bought this. Does anyone know it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CZxsVVZIL._AC_SX425_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61E5uWmR7hL._AC_SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 04, 2023, 05:51:46 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 04, 2023, 04:35:52 AMJust bought this. Does anyone know it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CZxsVVZIL._AC_SX425_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61E5uWmR7hL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

Yes, I do. I think it's up to Bolligers usual standard and the organs are - don't I need to say - most interesting. The so called Dorothea organ in Sønderborg is expertly reconstructed. There is another worthwhile recording of it here (HCD 1028):

http://www.helikonrecords.dk/orgel.htm
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 05, 2023, 10:14:09 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 04, 2023, 04:35:52 AMJust bought this. Does anyone know it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CZxsVVZIL._AC_SX425_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61E5uWmR7hL._AC_SX425_.jpg)
Actually your recent John Bull salve regina reminded me of this, there's this recording on the same Dorothea organ that I like a lot:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Vwrr0b+iL._UXNaN_FMjpg_QL85_.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYdBHQiA3oE&list=OLAK5uy_lvQKLfh_DkZuFsDE1Eme8mwppXcHMxcdI&index=11
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 07, 2023, 12:43:34 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on November 03, 2023, 12:42:24 PMHave you heard Helmut Winter at Trebel?

Yes, I used to really like listening to Helmut Winter and it's a pleasure to be reminded of him.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 07, 2023, 12:53:57 AM
Here's Jan Willem Jansen playing CU3

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on November 07, 2023, 09:11:55 PM
(https://shop.new-art.nl/content/img/new_products/1692882478.jpg)
Recently released recording of Klaus Mertens singing intimate sacred song settings by Bach, accompanied by Ton Koopman (who else?) on a little 1762 Jacob Engelbert Teschemacher cabinet organ in Oosterland. I listened to the solo organ pieces on this recording, haven't heard much of Klaus' singing on it. Nice, gently colorful organ! Koopman's playing seems to have sobered up these recent years, his harpsichord playing has always been a little too forceful and choppy but it comes off as charming and clean on this little organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 07, 2023, 11:41:56 PM
(https://i.discogs.com/DxRBjyONHxtDhcHs3zLvVkRsN9nqvFZIEPx4QC1_2rc/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:588/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3MzQw/MDczLTE2MTI5MDMy/OTktOTM4MC5qcGVn.jpeg)

Enjoying this, this morning. Götz seems to have completely missed the boat due to poor distribution. Large catalogue but on a niche and now defunct label for the original CDs, hardly any digital presence. This is a great shame.

Also been really enjoying this Titelouze


(https://i.discogs.com/eji-hi3c5lqWwWV9uknqOme6EkDOBtm8qrbW_vebz7I/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyNDA0/MjQ4LTE1MzQ2MDQw/ODgtNDU4MC5qcGVn.jpeg)

Sylvain Ciaravolo also hasn't done well in the transition to digital, but better than Roland Götz! This is a valuable recording IMO - full of colour and life.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 10:43:18 AM
Mandryka,

I'm just curious that given how much you love organ music, did you ever have lessons?  Can you play any pieces yourself? [Meant kindly]  :) Just curious.

Best,

PD

p.s.  How did you fall in love with this instrument?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:07:16 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 10:43:18 AMMandryka,

I'm just curious that given how much you love organ music, did you ever have lessons?  Can you play any pieces yourself? [Meant kindly]  :) Just curious.

Best,

PD

p.s.  How did you fall in love with this instrument?


My school had an organ, a serious large instrument, and I was friends with an organ scholar there. He used to let me come in and change stops for him. That's the closest I ever got to actually playing one.

Being interested in organ is inevitable if you're interested in keyboard music from the 18th century and earlier. So much of the music, the best music, is organ music.. And so many glorious old instruments are baroque organs. Also, it's a great thing to listen to at home if you've got big speakers!
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 11:10:48 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:07:16 AMMy school had an organ, a serious large instrument, and I was friends with an organ scholar there. He used to let me come in and change stops for him. That's the closest I ever got to actually playing one.


Pardon, but I don't know a lot about organs.  What does it mean and how does one changes the stops?

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 11:10:48 AMPardon, but I don't know a lot about organs.  What does it mean and how does one changes the stops?

PD

The stops are switches which change the timbre of the music the organist plays.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 11:29:49 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:12:29 AMThe stops are switches which change the timbre of the music the organist plays.
Oh, interesting.  And how does one do that?

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 11:29:49 AMOh, interesting.  And how does one do that?

PD
Well, from the player's point of view you pull a knob in or out. There's a bunch of knobs with labels on telling you what effect they will have. In preparing to play the music, the organist decides what timbres he'd like to create, and when. 


Internally, when you push the knob in or out, it determines which pipes the air will flow through -- organs are pipes, wind instruments. There is a lot of plumbing in an organ.

I used to love the names of the stops at school -- especially the Latin ones

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/60cf6f7ef108de6111cd1061/1637577296003-L3AU9GW4MP2XYC2688L4/Wells+Cathedral+Organ+%2857%29.jpg?format=2500w)

Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 08, 2023, 11:47:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:45:44 AMWell, from the player's point of view you pull a knob in or out. There's a bunch of knobs with labels on telling you what effect they will have. In preparing to play the music, the organist decides what timbres he'd like to create, and when. 


Internally, when you push the knob in or out, it determines which pipes the air will flow through -- organs are pipes. There is a lot of plumbing in an organ.
Thanks for sharing how it works.

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: atardecer on November 10, 2023, 04:30:01 AM
I've been following Wayne Marshall for a while now, he is a very gifted improvisor on piano and organ. I've seen some jaw dropping performances from this guy. I guess I understand where the phrase "pulling out all the stops" comes from now. There is a video of him literally doing that with stops while performing, but I couldn't find that video on youtube. This one is also impressive.


Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 10, 2023, 08:09:42 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2023, 11:45:44 AMWell, from the player's point of view you pull a knob in or out. There's a bunch of knobs with labels on telling you what effect they will have. In preparing to play the music, the organist decides what timbres he'd like to create, and when. 


Internally, when you push the knob in or out, it determines which pipes the air will flow through -- organs are pipes, wind instruments. There is a lot of plumbing in an organ.

I used to love the names of the stops at school -- especially the Latin ones

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/60cf6f7ef108de6111cd1061/1637577296003-L3AU9GW4MP2XYC2688L4/Wells+Cathedral+Organ+%2857%29.jpg?format=2500w)


Oh, when you had said about changing the stops, I originally thought that you meant that you were working on the organ--as in doing repairs! lol  But, seriously, I thought that the organist did that by themselves?  Or on the big ones, do organists normally have assistants?

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 10, 2023, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 10, 2023, 08:09:42 AMOh, when you had said about changing the stops, I originally thought that you meant that you were working on the organ--as in doing repairs! lol  But, seriously, I thought that the organist did that by themselves?  Or on the big ones, do organists normally have assistants?

PD

I think  I only got to do it because my friend liked having me in the organ box. We used to make each other giggle in a schoolboyish way.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 10, 2023, 09:07:06 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2023, 08:30:01 AMI think  I only got to do it because my friend liked having me in the organ box. We used to make each other giggle in a schoolboyish way.
;D

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 11, 2023, 12:22:20 PM
Today I listened to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNoUoG5IeA

Peter Waldner playing renaissance music and early baroque music on a newly restored Belgian baroque organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 11, 2023, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: atardecer on November 10, 2023, 04:30:01 AMI've been following Wayne Marshall for a while now, he is a very gifted improvisor on piano and organ. I've seen some jaw dropping performances from this guy. I guess I understand where the phrase "pulling out all the stops" comes from now. There is a video of him literally doing that with stops while performing, but I couldn't find that video on youtube. This one is also impressive.



That was quite interesting!  Surprised to hear the can-can early on.  ;D  Very modern-looking organ.  Looks like there was some sort of electrical cord that somehow or another transmitted signals to the pipes?  I haven't seen anything like that before.

In any event, he's certainly very talented.  :)

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: atardecer on November 11, 2023, 06:30:03 PM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 11, 2023, 02:07:20 PMThat was quite interesting!  Surprised to hear the can-can early on.  ;D  Very modern-looking organ.  Looks like there was some sort of electrical cord that somehow or another transmitted signals to the pipes?  I haven't seen anything like that before.

In any event, he's certainly very talented.  :)

PD

Yes, the instrument has the more modern stops that are switches. I'm not really sure what other ways that kind of organ differs from the older ones.

As far as Wayne Marshall I find his improvisational talents quite impressive. He recently performed a concert with nothing prepared ahead of time and just took requests on the spot from audience members for themes to then improvise on. He can take those themes and improvise in various styles. For example someone could say - Jingle Bells in the style of Mozart, and he does it.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 11, 2023, 06:47:43 PM
Quote from: atardecer on November 11, 2023, 06:30:03 PMYes, the instrument has the more modern stops that are switches. I'm not really sure what other ways that kind of organ differs from the older ones.

As far as Wayne Marshall I find his improvisational talents quite impressive. He recently performed a concert with nothing prepared ahead of time and just took requests on the spot from audience members for themes to then improvise on. He can take those themes and improvise in various styles. For example someone could say - Jingle Bells in the style of Mozart, and he does it.
Wow!  Quite impressive!  And, yes, I did see the switches on his organ.

PD
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2023, 11:58:10 PM
(https://i.discogs.com/C-spAVws616kW71Qpzg_6m-rJSUbOKpDJQrVS3eDHYs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:592/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3NzE2/MDkzLTE2MTUwMjk5/NzItNjE1NC5qcGVn.jpeg)

Roland Götz plays Froberger at Klosterneuburg. Passionate performances and a passionate essay - presumably by Gôtz himself - about  the organ and the music, uploaded to discogs.

https://www.discogs.com/release/17716093-Johann-Jakob-Froberger-Roland-Götz-Roland-Götz-Spielt-Johann-Jakob-Froberger

Götz has a knack for choosing programmes for recordings - I find myself wanting to listen to a whole CDs worth of his music quite often with him.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 18, 2023, 10:55:38 AM
Jean Rondeau looking for sponsorship for a complete Louis Couperin series of recordings

https://www.clavecin.org/couperin/

The mention of "organs" made me pay attention.

There are only four significant selections of the organ music on record that I know of -- Moroney, Pieter Dirksen, Willem Jansen and Laurent Beyhurst -- and only Moroney's is more than one CD's worth. David Ponsford in his book on French baroque organ music makes out a good case for its quality and importance. I'm very keen to get to know it better.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 18, 2023, 04:40:05 PM
There is a fifth from the 1960es by Chapuis on the Cliquot organ in Souvigny, but I have never seen it on CD. It's played in Chapuis' usual flamboyant style IIRC.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on November 18, 2023, 06:20:24 PM
Quote from: premont on November 18, 2023, 04:40:05 PMThere is a fifth from the 1960es by Chapuis on the Cliquot organ in Souvigny, but I have never seen it on CD. It's played in Chapuis' usual flamboyant style IIRC.

 

https://archive.org/details/lp_selected-works-by-louis-couperin-first-pub_louis-couperin-michel-chapuis-ensemble-voc_0
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: LKB on November 24, 2023, 01:56:40 AM
Hot off the griddle, a fun duet  ( four hands and two feet ) uploaded within the last hour:

https://youtu.be/zxYB8MNeLGg?si=gPp8f_rIDzpCpRNw
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on November 24, 2023, 11:43:41 AM
Quote from: LKB on November 24, 2023, 01:56:40 AMHot off the griddle, a fun duet  ( four hands and two feet ) uploaded within the last hour:

https://youtu.be/zxYB8MNeLGg?si=gPp8f_rIDzpCpRNw

This is a bit over the top. They make the excellent Svendborg organ sound like a barrel organ.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: LKB on November 24, 2023, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: premont on November 24, 2023, 11:43:41 AMThis is a bit over the top. They make the excellent Svendborg organ sound like a barrel organ.

It's an arrangement of a folksong, not a Bach chorale prelude. Not an inappropriate choice for demonstrating an excellent instrument's capabilities, and a solid little piece of local marketing for getting people in to listen to, say, some Bach chorale preludes.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Anooj on January 07, 2024, 04:32:21 AM
Maybe someone has asked already, but are there any good organ recordings performed on this type of Spanish organ? I love the sound of it very much.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 07, 2024, 06:13:53 AM
Quote from: Anooj on January 07, 2024, 04:32:21 AMMaybe someone has asked already, but are there any good organ recordings performed on this type of Spanish organ? I love the sound of it very much.

The Trompettes en chamade which are used here were introduced in Spanish organs in the late 17th century, and their use is for that reason substantiated for Spanish late baroque composers. I'm not much into this era, finding the music too showy, Cabanilles being the only partial exception. 
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2024, 05:52:32 AM
(https://i.discogs.com/oXoaQ1L9sbML3mrsuRieem6Oe3YEbOLV_rYQIBPwcLs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:597/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTkzOTYz/NjgtMTQ3OTgzMjQx/Ni0zODEwLmpwZWc.jpeg)

Wonderful "grand manner" Grigny hymns at Marmoutier from Melville Smith - clear counterpoint too. Why does this noble, proud, radiant, joyful way of playing no longer exist?
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 22, 2024, 06:33:16 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2024, 05:52:32 AM[img
Wonderful "grand manner" Grigny hymns at Marmoutier from Melville Smith - clear counterpoint too. Why does this noble, proud, radiant, joyful way of playing no longer exist?

Yes, Smith was special - or was he? I think Alain, Saorgin, Bardon e.g. played in much the same style. But the younger generation's Grigny (Nicolas Bucher, Olivier Houette) is more "informed" and rather impressive too.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on January 24, 2024, 05:49:14 AM
Enjoying Mikkelsen's Grigny mass this afternoon - partly because of the singing, which I remember not liking when it was released, but which now seems to work very nicely. I think I prefer Mikkelsen to Coudurier on the same organ - Coudurier grand and noble but somehow Mikkelsen seems to capture a bit of introspection, prayerfulness.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on January 24, 2024, 07:18:00 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 24, 2024, 05:49:14 AMEnjoying Mikkelsen's Grigny mass this afternoon - partly because of the singing, which I remember not liking when it was released, but which now seems to work very nicely. I think I prefer Mikkelsen to Coudurier on the same organ - Coudurier grand and noble but somehow Mikkelsen seems to capture a bit of introspection, prayerfulness.

Mikkelsen recorded Grigny (for CDklassisk) on the Isnard organ, Saint Maximin, Provence. Coudurier recorded Grigny (for BNL) on the historic organ of Cintegabelle. So not the same organ.

But Pierre Bardon has recorded the Grigny Messe and Hymns (for Pierre Verany) on the Isnard organ and Isoir has recorded the Hymns on the Isnard organ (for Calliope). Coudurier has recorded some Marchand and Bach on the Isnard organ (for BNL).
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 04, 2024, 05:51:19 AM
I picked this disc up as part of the Chandos Winter sale;

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk1MzY0Ny4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)

I'm a sucker for this kind of large-scale spectacular organ music.  Especially when presented on the mighty Willis organ in Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral.  Yes of course the huge acoustic there blurs some orchestral detail and gives the Chandos engineers and producer a bit of a nightmre to create a coherent and well-balanced disc.  But the result is about as good as it could be - finding a good compromise between the space/instrument involved and the needs of domestic listening.  Of course Ian Tracey's playing is superb and the BBC PO are reliably skilled accompanists.  Great fun.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 23, 2024, 08:15:47 AM
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1982953201_10.jpg)

Predictably tough performances from Mr Bennett but the programme is interesting and the organ at Sassenheim is fabulous - just not ideally recorded. So tough a performance, and so unsympathetically recorded, that I gave up after about 20 minutes.

https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/mannerism-organ-music-from-1550-1650

Peter van Dijk recorded some of his NM Sweelinck at Sassenheim.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 24, 2024, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2024, 08:15:47 AM(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1982953201_10.jpg)

Predictably tough performances from Mr Bennett but the programme is interesting and the organ at Sassenheim is fabulous - just not ideally recorded. So tough a performance, and so unsympathetically recorded, that I gave up after about 20 minutes.

https://editionsgrandier.bandcamp.com/album/mannerism-organ-music-from-1550-1650

Peter van Dijk recorded some of his NM Sweelinck at Sassenheim.
What do you mean by "tough?"
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2024, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 24, 2024, 09:39:56 AMWhat do you mean by "tough?"

Severe., maybe.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Cato on February 24, 2024, 10:30:50 AM
Since this topic is alive right now: I offered this yesterday.


Julius Reubke's Sonata on Psalm 94.



Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: premont on February 24, 2024, 01:12:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2024, 08:15:47 AM(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1982953201_10.jpg)

Predictably tough performances from Mr Bennett but the programme is interesting and the organ at Sassenheim is fabulous - just not ideally recorded. So tough a performance, and so unsympathetically recorded, that I gave up after about 20 minutes.

Yes, almost unlistenable sound and a stubborn aggressive approach from Bennett in most of the pieces. Certainly a missed opportunity.
Title: Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
Post by: Mandryka on February 27, 2024, 07:38:27 AM
(https://i.discogs.com/K_RN_D5MNa0d23UhbgrPhG2NUOO3H-z7tivV6nPGbp8/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:593/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE4NDEw/NzM0LTE2MTkxMDcw/NzEtNzg5OS5qcGVn.jpeg)

I just Mary Jane Newman's Pachelbel Fugues on Spotify. The organ sounds modern. The playing sounds lively and the singing sounds excellent.