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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: bwv 1080 on April 07, 2007, 05:42:23 PM

Title: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bwv 1080 on April 07, 2007, 05:42:23 PM
(Wikipedia Entry)
Henri Dutilleux (born January 22, 1916 in Angers, France) is one of the most important French composers of the second half of the 20th century, producing work in the tradition of Maurice Ravel, Claude Debussy, and Albert Roussel, but in a style distinctly his own. Although his output is relatively small, its high quality and originality have won international praise.

[edit] Life
As a young man, Dutilleux studied harmony, counterpoint and piano with Victor Gallois at the Douai Conservatory before leaving for Paris. There from 1933 to 1938 he attended the classes of Jean and Noël Gallon (harmony and counterpoint), Henri-Paul Busser (composition) and Maurice Emmanuel (history of music) at the Paris Conservatoire.

Dutilleux won the Prix de Rome in 1938 for his cantata L'Anneau du Roi but did not complete the entire residency in Rome due to the outbreak of World War II. He worked for a year as a medical orderly in the army and then came back to Paris in 1940 where he worked as a pianist, arranger and music teacher and in 1942 conducted the choir of the Paris Opera.

Dutilleux worked as Head of Music Production for French Radio from 1945 to 1963. He served as Professor of Composition at the École Normale de Musique de Paris from 1961 to 1970. He was appointed to the staff of the Paris Conservatoire in 1970. His students include French composers Gérard Grisey and Francis Bayer and Canadian composer Jacques Hétu.


[edit] Influences and Style
Dutilleux's music extends the legacies of earlier French composers like Debussy and Ravel but is also clearly influenced by Béla Bartók and Igor Stravinsky. His attitude towards Serialism is more problematic. While he has always paid attention to the developments of contemporary music and has incorporated some serialist techniques into his own compositions, he has also denounced the more radical and intolerant aspects of the movement. As an independent composer, Dutilleux has always refused to be associated with any school. Rather, his works merge the traditions of earlier composers and post-World War II innovations and translate them into his own idiosyncratic style. His music also contains echoes of jazz as can be heard in the double bass introduction to his First Symphony and his frequent use of syncopated rhythms.

Some of Dutilleux's trademarks include very refined orchestral textures, fluid and intricate rhythms, a preference for atonality and modality over tonality, the use of pedal points that serve as atonal pitch centers and "reverse variation" by which a theme is not exposed immediately but rather revealed gradually, appearing in its complete form only after a few partial, tentative expositions. His music also displays a very strong sense of structure and symmetry. This is particularly obvious from an "external" point of view i.e. the overall organisation of the different movements or the spatial distribution of the various instruments but is also apparent in the music itself (themes, harmonies and rhythms mirroring, complementing or opposing each other).

Most of his works have a dreamlike, highly poetic quality, which makes them relatively more accessible than those of many other post-World War II composers.

Dutilleux's music has often been influenced by art and literature, such as by the works of the painter Vincent van Gogh, poet Charles Baudelaire and novelist Marcel Proust. It also shows a concern for the concepts of time and memory, through the use of quotations (notably from Bartók, Britten and Jehan Alain) and short interludes which recall material that was used in earlier movements and/or introduce ideas that will be fully developed later.

A perfectionist with an acute sense of artistic integrity, he has allowed only a small number of his works to be published, and what he does publish he often revises and adjusts even after.


[edit] Music
Dutilleux numbered as Op. 1 his Piano Sonata (1946-1948), written for pianist Geneviève Joy whom he had married in 1946. He has renounced the works he composed before it because he did not believe them to be representative of his mature standards, considering many of them to be too derivative to have merit. Some of these works are nonetheless still played nowadays, for instance the flute sonatina (1943) and the oboe sonata (1947).

After the Piano Sonata, Dutilleux started working on his First Symphony (1951). It consists of four monothematic movements and has a perfectly symmetrical structure: music slowly emerges from silence (1st movement) and builds towards a fast climax (2nd), keeps its momentum (3rd) and finally slowly fades out (4th).

In 1953, Dutilleux wrote the music for the ballet Le Loup. It was a considerable success which made him known to a wider audience.

In his Second Symphony, titled Le Double (1959), the orchestra is divided into two groups: a small one at the front with instruments taken from the various sections (brass, woodwinds, strings and percussions) and a bigger one at the back consisting of the rest of the orchestra. Although this brings to mind the Baroque concerto grosso, Dutilleux has clearly stated that that was not the idea behind the work. Rather, the smaller ensemble acts as mirror or a ghost for the bigger one, sometimes playing similar or complementary lines, sometimes contrasting ones.

His next work, Métaboles (for orchestra, 1965) explores the idea of metamorphosis, how a series of subtle and gradual changes can radically transform a structure. A different section of the orchestra dominates each of the first four movements before the fifth brings them all together for the finale. It is one of Dutilleux's best known and most acclaimed compositions.

In the mid-sixties, Dutilleux met Mstislav Rostropovich who commissioned him to write a cello concerto. Rostropovich premiered the work, titled Tout un monde lointain, in 1970. It is one of the most important additions to the cello repertoire of the 20th century. In five movements, Tout un Monde Lointain is a nocturnal, mysterious work with a delicate orchestration and an eerily beautiful, yet highly virtuosic solo part. While most of the concerto is introspective and meditative, it also has occasional outbursts of violence and a frantic build-up to the ambiguous, suspended finale.

After the cello concerto, Dutilleux turned to chamber music for the first time in more than 20 years and published various works for piano (Figures de Résonances, 3 Préludes) and the important 3 Strophes sur le Nom de Sacher (1976) for solo cello. But his most important work of that era is the string quartet Ainsi la Nuit (1976). Each of its movements highlights various special effects (pizzicato, glissandi, harmonics, extreme registers, contrasting dynamics...) resulting in a difficult but fascinating work, which is among Dutilleux's very best.

He then returned to orchestral works in 1978 with Timbres, Espace, Mouvement ou la Nuit Etoilée, inspired by Vincent Van Gogh's The Starry Night. In this composition, Dutilleux attempted to translate in musical terms the opposition between emptiness and movement conveyed by the painting with strikingly successful results. He achieved this by using a strings section without violins and violas - thus consisting only of the lower-register instruments: cellos and double basses.

In 1985, Isaac Stern premiered L'Arbre des Songes, a violin concerto that he had commissioned Dutilleux to write. Like its cello counterpart, it is an essential addition to the instrument's 20th century repertoire.

Dutilleux later wrote Mystère de l'Instant (for cymbalum and chamber orchestra, 1989), Les Citations (for oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion, 1991), The Shadows of Time (for orchestra and children voices, 1997) and Sur le Même Accord (for violin and orchestra, 2002 - dedicated to Anne-Sophie Mutter).

In 2003, he completed Correspondances, a song-cycle inspired by poems and letters by Prithwindra Mukherjee, Rilke, Solzhenitsyn and Van Gogh. This work has received a very enthusiastic reception and has been programmed several times since its première.

Now over 90, Dutilleux is busy composing a work for American soprano Renée Fleming. He has also expressed the wish to write more chamber music, a genre which he feels he has neglected. Indeed, apart from the various piano works, Ainsi la Nuit, 3 Strophes sur le Nom de Sacher and Les Citations, most of his output is orchestral.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: UB on April 11, 2007, 02:39:08 AM
bwv - but do you like his music or did you just cut and paste because you had nothing else to do at the time? Just kidding - thanks for starting a thread on this amazing French composer.

10 years ago I did a survey of my collection of after 1950 violin concertos - I had about 40 at the time - and decided that L'Arbre des Songes was the best of the lot. My choice is the Stern with Bernstein's Serenade as the filler not the Stern with PMD.

Tortelier box set is a great way to get to know the orchestral works.

I see that a new work, Le Temps l'Horloge for soprano and chamber orchestra, will be premiered in September of this year with Renee Fleming.



Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Maciek on April 11, 2007, 12:03:35 PM
Just dropped in to say I love Dutilleux. :D Haven't got many CDs though - but have heard quite a lot live and on the radio (and have a few radio recordings). Will have to definitely expand... :D 8)

Maciek
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on April 11, 2007, 12:11:25 PM
I've just discovered his music in the last couple of years, most notably through two live performances of the Symphony No. 2 ("Le Double") by Franz Welser-Möst and the Cleveland Orchestra.  Hard to believe this magical concoction isn't done more often, but there you go.  Since then, I've heard the string quartet, Ainsi la nuit (the Arditti recording), and some of the orchestral works e.g., L'Arbre des Songes and Mystère de l'Instant (live), all fascinating.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on April 11, 2007, 12:12:44 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 11, 2007, 12:11:25 PM
I've just discovered his music in the last couple of years, most notably through two live performances of the Symphony No. 2 ("Le Double") by Franz Welser-Möst and the Cleveland Orchestra.  Hard to believe this magical concoction isn't done more often, but there you go.

I found this symphony ravishing when we heard it at Symphony, Bruce!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on April 11, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2007, 12:12:44 PM
I found this symphony ravishing when we heard it at Symphony, Bruce!

Maybe it's gaining in popularity...I hope so.  His skills as a colorist are quite amazing, and the compositional "problem" of having a small chamber ensemble interact with the larger one seemed very nicely solved (after just two hearings, without close study).  Above all, it is just an arresting piece of music, one that seduces very quickly.  Wish I'd gotten the chance to hear it by different forces, i.e., in Boston.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on April 11, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 11, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Maybe it's gaining in popularity...I hope so.

I hope it may!  But the BSO, you can expect not to disown the piece; we commissioned it  :D

The program we heard it on was a gala retrospective of four historical BSO commissions:  the Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms, the Bartók Concerto for Orchestra, the Dutilleux, and Carter's Boston Concerto.

It was, as you might expect, a great concert;  but the Dutilleux, then entirely new to me, was the great revelation.

QuoteHis skills as a colorist are quite amazing, and the compositional "problem" of having a small chamber ensemble interact with the larger one seemed very nicely solved (after just two hearings, without close study).  Above all, it is just an arresting piece of music, one that seduces very quickly.  Wish I'd gotten the chance to hear it by different forces, i.e., in Boston.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: not edward on April 11, 2007, 12:22:41 PM
A few years ago, I was really really big on Dutilleux.

Though my initial enthusiasm hasn't entirely lasted, there are a few pieces I think will rank high in the 20th century pantheon, particularly the Second Symphony, Ainsi la nuit, the Violin Concerto and above all Timbres, Espace, Mouvement (La Nuit Etoilee).

One very pleasing thing about his work is that there really aren't any weak links in his mature output--even the quirky Diptyque: Les Citations has a lot to recommend it.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Greta on September 10, 2007, 06:42:58 PM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/61RD7SE54CL._SS500_.jpg)

I heard this today, my first encounter with Dutilleux's music! :D 

Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on September 10, 2007, 06:44:36 PM
Quote from: Greta on September 10, 2007, 06:42:58 PM

I heard this today, my first encounter with Dutilleux's music! :D 

AND . . . ?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Greta on September 10, 2007, 07:02:03 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on September 10, 2007, 06:44:36 PM
AND . . . ?

And....that post ended early because I accidentally spilled a glass of tea on my keyboard, and pushed Enter while I was cleaning it up!  Oops! ;D

So anyway, it is fantastic! Totally love it. I kept reading things about Graf's Dutilleux cycle and finally got around to picking up one of them, it's a fine disc. Just great performances, the orchestra sounds superb in this music. And an utterly cheap set from Arte Nova.

The Sonnets de Jean Cassou are gorgeous, dreamy and romantic, the Violin Concerto so colorful and imaginative.

Mystere d'Instant is well, mysterious, and highly enjoyable. For some reason Ligeti comes to mind, and earlier in the disc, Messiaen. And is there some Eastern influence?

His harmonies are very lush, much depth in his writing. Yes, they can be dissonant pieces, but are lovely to listen to, I can imagine live in a nice hall what a cool experience it would be.

Awesome stuff!  8)

Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 10, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
I had the Arte Nova set, but also obtained the Chandos collection w/ Tortelier, which I liked much more (but not the bargain!) - CLICK on the image for reviews, if interested; also, a 10/10 rating on Classics Today (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2548) by David Hurwitz - the extra price is worth the admission -  :D

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Q5FE8ZVKL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Dutilleux-Complete-Orchestral-Neal-Davies/dp/B00004YU78/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-6608891-8512969?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1189481025&sr=1-2)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: head-case on September 10, 2007, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: UB on April 11, 2007, 02:39:08 AM
bwv - but do you like his music or did you just cut and paste because you had nothing else to do at the time? Just kidding - thanks for starting a thread on this amazing French composer.

10 years ago I did a survey of my collection of after 1950 violin concertos - I had about 40 at the time - and decided that L'Arbre des Songes was the best of the lot. My choice is the Stern with Bernstein's Serenade as the filler not the Stern with PMD.

Tortelier box set is a great way to get to know the orchestral works.

I see that a new work, Le Temps l'Horloge for soprano and chamber orchestra, will be premiered in September of this year with Renee Fleming.





That moniker, UB, reminds me of "Utah Bill" of ancient times.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on February 15, 2008, 04:57:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LySORUIPKl0&feature=related

Video of two supreme artists recording two of Dutilleux's finest works with comments from the composer!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: val on February 16, 2008, 04:12:12 AM
I love the music of Dutilleux. In fact, he is my favorite composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

And above all his masterpieces, there is one that made a deep impression on me: the string Quartet "Ainsi la nuit". Only 17', divided in seven movements. It is perhaps thework that most justifies the title of this thread, "Dark dominion". Music of the night, with an extraordinary beauty, that stays with us long after it has finished.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on March 11, 2008, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: James on March 10, 2008, 08:57:37 AM
BBC Radio 3 Discovering Music

Stephen Johnson explores some of the ideas behind the music of one of France's leading composers, Henri Dutilleux, focusing on his second Symphony (Le double). Thierry Fischer conducts a performance given by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales as part of their Discovering Dutilleux festival. Duration: 1 hour 30 minutes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/pip/umm2w/

Thanks so much for posting this, James.  At this point I'm eager to hear different versions of this piece, which is one of Dutilleux's most invigorating.  (Wasn't aware of the festival, either!)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on March 11, 2008, 10:12:32 AM
Quote from: James on March 11, 2008, 10:02:09 AM
Dutilleux's output is small, but most of what I have heard of it is just wonderful & special.

- both symphonies
- timbre, space, movement
- cello concerto
- violin concerto
- métaboles
- mystère de l'instantles
- the shadows of time
- piano sonata
- string quartet "ainsi la nuit"
- trois strophes sur le nom de sacher for solo cello

I have heard most of those (some in live performance) and totally agree.  Forgot to mention that last December I heard Le Temps l'Horloge (2007) for soprano and orchestra, a short song cycle, with Renée Fleming and the Boston Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Levine.  It was so marvelous...my sole complaint was that it was so short--just 9 minutes--that they should have done it twice.  (Especially since the composer was present!) 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2008, 10:14:05 PM
Interesting composer whom I should explore further. I have the Cello Concerto (the famous recording with the Lutosawski) and "Metaboles" (I think that's what it's called). Both very good.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on April 13, 2009, 09:25:39 AM
I really need to hear more by this composer - I adore the cello and violin concertos, as well as the Trois Strophes, and am also very keen on the Symphony no.1 and Timbres, Espace, Mouvement. Pondering whether to get the complete orchestral works set...

Oh, and is anyone seeing Renée Fleming premiering the final version of Le Temps L'Horloge in Paris on May 9th this year? I hope it gets recorded.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: nut-job on April 13, 2009, 09:38:14 AM
Can't go too far wrong with this one.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gn4W9LgOL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Rostropovich playing the cello concerto that was written for him, and Pretre and the Paris Conservatory Orchestra playing the rarely heard and engaging Le Loup.  Very colorful.

Regarding the title of this thread, who would call Dutilleaux's work "Dark?"
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on April 13, 2009, 03:44:20 PM
Technically, my fav string quartet...get the Julliard (w/ Deb-Rav). Sound and playing is more sumptous. Yes, this is really my fav quartet this side of the noisy stuff.  Every trick is used towards musical ends, and not just plink-plonk for the sake of.  Please! find me a modern quartet more of everything than this one!  Ligeti No.2 kind of comes close, but the whole "point" is different (frankly, forget I mentioned it).  I mean, the mere fact that he wrote only one, and in maturity, shows how he put EVERYTHING in there...there is really no need for No.2...and it's only 18min, ahhh.....anyhow, I'm doting....

Also!- Maurice Ohana seems to inhabit the same noctural sound world. His post-Messiaen quartets come off a lot more "daytime", but the same Mediterrainean temperment (plus North Africa) dominates.  By no means as classic as "ansni la nuit".

I've got all the important stuff, and yea, except for the hair, there's no faulting Dutilleux!  And the Erato with the GREAT Honegger No.4!!!

but back to the quartet,haha 0:)...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 04:12:05 AM
Quote from: Guido on April 13, 2009, 09:25:39 AM
I really need to hear more by this composer - I adore the cello and violin concertos, as well as the Trois Strophes, and am also very keen on the Symphony no.1 and Timbres, Espace, Mouvement. Pondering whether to get the complete orchestral works set...

Any update, Guido?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on December 25, 2009, 10:49:09 AM
The String Quartet is a revelation - magical from start to finish and is surely one of the finest works in the genre from the last century - up there with Janacek, Szymanowski, Bartok et al.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on December 25, 2009, 12:14:42 PM
Nice to see the Christmas spirit in such full flower.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on December 25, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
Quote from: Guido on December 25, 2009, 10:49:09 AM
The String Quartet is a revalation - magical from start to finish and is surely one of the finest works in the genre from the last century - up there with Janacek, Szymanowski, Bartok et al.

Haha, I like how you answer later,... much, much later, haha ;D!



So, did you just hear the SQ just for the first time,... and by whom? I'll tell you, this is my specialty, and the Julliard/Sony are the one to beat, both sonically, and technically,... not to mention the Julliard's unbeatable poetry. They beat the Arditti, IMO. Many others are hamstrung by terribly dry acoustics, or rough recordings, that totally diminish the mystery of the piece. Will anyone argue the Julliard's dominance here? I certainly haven't heard the Peterson, and I don't know if the Hagen have done it, but, either way, that Sony disc is a cornerstone in the Library.

I do believe that if anyone asked me, I would say this is my single favorite offering. If anyone asked me what kind of music I like, I would point to it. I think it's absolutely in the Canon. To me, it is "almost" the perfect amalgam of music and sounds (MY SQ would of course have to be better,... somehow, haha). No, it's perfect. I mean, my lips begin to make pfft sounds because my mouth can't utter the words! It truly stands alone, in D's work itself, and in SQ literature, as, I think, one of the most clearly "poetic" works ever penned, a refinement of a refinement (Webern/Boulez) of a refinement (Faure). Sciarrino and Lachenmann, IMO, could learn something about the intergration of music and sound from here; and, I'm not saying that D explored any of those twos' extended techniques, but, in this SQ, the possibilities of the limits dial in clear for me.

It was written in 1976, almost 40 years ago!, and yet, it is the epitome of High Modernism (perhaps along with Xenakis' Tetras (1983), and Ligeti No2 from the earlier decade (1968)). It's an Arditti bread n butter SQ.

Thus,... the night...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on December 26, 2009, 04:51:57 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 25, 2009, 08:16:14 PM
Haha, I like how you answer later,... much, much later, haha ;D!



So, did you just hear the SQ just for the first time,... and by whom? I'll tell you, this is my specialty, and the Julliard/Sony are the one to beat, both sonically, and technically,... not to mention the Julliard's unbeatable poetry. They beat the Arditti, IMO. Many others are hamstrung by terribly dry acoustics, or rough recordings, that totally diminish the mystery of the piece. Will anyone argue the Julliard's dominance here? I certainly haven't heard the Peterson, and I don't know if the Hagen have done it, but, either way, that Sony disc is a cornerstone in the Library.

I do believe that if anyone asked me, I would say this is my single favorite offering. If anyone asked me what kind of music I like, I would point to it. I think it's absolutely in the Canon. To me, it is "almost" the perfect amalgam of music and sounds (MY SQ would of course have to be better,... somehow, haha). No, it's perfect. I mean, my lips begin to make pfft sounds because my mouth can't utter the words! It truly stands alone, in D's work itself, and in SQ literature, as, I think, one of the most clearly "poetic" works ever penned, a refinement of a refinement (Webern/Boulez) of a refinement (Faure). Sciarrino and Lachenmann, IMO, could learn something about the intergration of music and sound from here; and, I'm not saying that D explored any of those twos' extended techniques, but, in this SQ, the possibilities of the limits dial in clear for me.

It was written in 1976, almost 40 years ago!, and yet, it is the epitome of High Modernism (perhaps along with Xenakis' Tetras (1983), and Ligeti No2 from the earlier decade (1968)). It's an Arditti bread n butter SQ.

Thus,... the night...

I heard it before, but have just listened to it again recently - it's just wonderful in every way as you say. It reminded me of all the string quartets I mentioned in the post - the Janacekian poetry ad personalness and personality, the Szymanowskian beauty and ruggedness, the Bartokian sense of exploration and sonority. You are right to compare it to Fauré in its refinement. I don't think he's self conciously exploring 'special effects' and whistles and bangs here - it was 1976 after all, and quite a while after all that had been explored to the absolute extremes during the 60s... here the extended techniques are just another expressive pallette he can draw upon - Dutilleux is never bounded by any one school or rational - he uses elements from all his influences freely and continously.

I have the Belcea which I think is just peachy, though I haven't heard others.

A recent quartet that I think is almost as good and is clearly influenced by the Dutilleux is Adés Arcadiana. Also wonderful. Ades is similar to Dutilleux in his disavowel of one single harmonic pallette and instead inhabits a realms somewhere between, tonality and atonality, expressionism and impressionism, the severe and the ravishing. He's even said in an interview "I don't know what people are talking about when they say tonality and atonality".

I really want to hear Le temps de l'horloge his most recent work for Renée Fleming (soprano and orchestra), I can't imagine a more ravishing match.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on December 26, 2009, 05:19:23 AM
I also want to hear his Correspondances and soprano and orchestra for that matter.

What else is there by Dutilleux that hasn't been recorded? Here's his complete list of works from Wikipedia:

Orchestral

Symphony No. 1 (1951)
Symphony No. 2 Le Double (1959)
Métaboles (1964)
Timbres, Espace, Mouvement ou la Nuit Etoilée (1978)
Mystère de l'Instant (1989)
Slava's Fanfare for spatial ensemble (1997)

Concertante

Cello Concerto Tout un Monde Lointain (1970)
Violin Concerto L'Arbre des Songes (1985)
Nocturne for violin and orchestra Sur le Même Accord (2002)

Chamber/Instrumental

String Quartet Ainsi la Nuit (1976)
Trois Strophes sur le nom de Sacher for solo cello (1976-1982)
Les Citations for oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion (1991)

Piano

Piano Sonata (1948)
Tous les Chemins (1961)
Bergerie (1963)
Résonances (1965)
Figures de résonances (1970)
3 Préludes: D'Ombre et de silence, Sur un même accord, Le Jeu des contraires (1973-1988)

Vocal

Deux Sonnets de Jean Cassou, for baritone and piano (1954)
San Francisco Night, for voice and piano (1963)
Hommage à Nadia Boulanger, for soprano, 3 violas, clarinet, percussion and zither (1967)
The Shadows of Time, for 3 children voices and orchestra (1997)
Correspondances, for soprano and orchestra (2003)
Le Temps L'Horloge, for soprano and orchestra (2007-2009)

Ballet

Le Loup (1953)

Arrangements

Choral, cadence et fugato for trombone and symphonic band (1995) (same as the chamber work, orchestrated by Claude Pichaureau)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on December 26, 2009, 06:22:31 AM
Quote from: Guido on December 26, 2009, 04:51:57 AM
I heard it before, but have just listened to it again recently - it's just wonderful in every way as you say. It reminded me of all the string quartets I mentioned in the post - the Janacekian poetry ad personalness and personality, the Szymanowskian beauty and ruggedness, the Bartokian sense of exploration and sonority. You are right to compare it to Fauré in its refinement. I don't think he's self conciously exploring 'special effects' and whistles and bangs here - it was 1976 after all, and quite a while after all that had been explored to the absolute extremes during the 60s... here the extended techniques are just another expressive pallette he can draw upon - Dutilleux is never bounded by any one school or rational - he uses elements from all his influences freely and continously.

I have the Belcea which I think is just peachy, though I haven't heard others.

A recent quartet that I think is almost as good and is clearly influenced by the Dutilleux is Adés Arcadiana. Also wonderful. Ades is similar to Dutilleux in his disavowel of one single harmonic pallette and instead inhabits a realms somewhere between, tonality and atonality, expressionism and impressionism, the severe and the ravishing. He's even said in an interview "I don't know what people are talking about when they say tonality and atonality".

I really want to hear Le temps de l'horloge his most recent work for Renée Fleming (soprano and orchestra), I can't imagine a more ravishing match.

I was surprised by the Ades. It certainly is one of the nocturnal musings kind of things. Even from the first notes, this piece just wallows in interesting ideas. I'm not so sure I'm supposed to like it as much as I did. Upstart! :P



I think all the old D has been recorded. Maybe just those that have been composed recently haven't been recorded yet,. I think they forgot the Oboe Sonata (early, before the Piano Sonata, I think).

Also, you might like Ohana.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on January 22, 2010, 06:51:35 AM
Happy Birthday to Henri Dutilleux, who turns 94 today.  :D

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on April 07, 2010, 09:07:00 PM
D's SQ is one of my all time fav pieces, but when I try to play it for a normal, suddenly I hear it as I imagine they will hear it, and all of a sudden it doesn't sound magical anymore, but, as the normals would say, 'depressing'. I'm just saying I hate it when that happens, when you can see it in their eyes right away, that it's not, Bob Marley, or whatever they're used to, and I take it off. arrgh!!

:'( :'( :'(
:'( :'( :'(
:'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: MDL on April 08, 2010, 06:41:39 AM
The first time I ever heard Tout un monde lointain was at a concert in Zagreb in 2002. After 5-10 minutes, the cellist snapped a string and the piece had to be played again from the beginning, but nobody complained. I loved it immediately and even the other half was impressed, liking it much more than the final piece in the concert, Debussy's La Mer, which surprised me.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: UB on May 09, 2010, 01:45:27 AM
This is the world premiere of the latest version of Le temps l'horloge. It includes a fourth song - Baudelaire's prose-poem, Enivrez-vous - that was not in the original version that was premiered back in 2007.

Although Fleming sings the songs beautifully, over all I prefer Dutilleux's non-vocal music.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on June 27, 2010, 05:54:33 PM
I think Dutilleux is a great composer. The only recordings I own are the Tortelier set on Chandos:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Q5FE8ZVKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I really enjoy this set immensely. Of particular interest for me, were his two symphonies, but I've enjoyed many of his other orchestral works like "The Shadows of Time," "Timbres," and his cello and violin concerti. An interesting composer and a fantastic orchestrator. He's very accessible despite his heavy usage of dissonance without a tonal resolution. Does that make any sense? It made sense when I was typing it.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on June 28, 2010, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on April 07, 2010, 09:07:00 PM
D's SQ is one of my all time fav pieces, but when I try to play it for a normal, suddenly I hear it as I imagine they will hear it, and all of a sudden it doesn't sound magical anymore, but, as the normals would say, 'depressing'. I'm just saying I hate it when that happens, when you can see it in their eyes right away, that it's not, Bob Marley, or whatever they're used to, and I take it off. arrgh!!

:'( :'( :'(
:'( :'( :'(
:'( :'( :'(

Yes I know exactly the feeling. Hate it too!

QuoteA recording of the world premiere of Le Temps l'Horloge is now available for 15 Euros at the site of the Theatre des Champs Elysees. Some people have complained 15 Euros is a lot of money for 15 minutes of music but it is a collector's item and I am glad I was given the opportunity to own a recording of this piece at any price, when, scandalously, no recording of Correspondances has been released yet.

Really want to hear it as Renee is my favourite singer and I'm sure the piece is ravishing... but 15 Euros?!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on June 28, 2010, 12:03:11 PM
15 euros for that is highway robbery, especially because I heard that the piece was broadcast online a while back, and those people got to hear it for free. Anyways, I'm sure some crafty fellows recorded it when it was broadcast anyways. :P
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 29, 2010, 03:15:59 PM
Thought I would bump this thread back up to the top considering that Dutilleux has been on my mind and I've been listening to his music almost all afternoon. Love his music so much. I'm surprised to see that there aren't that many people familiar with his music. If the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra would play some of his music I would definitely go, but this isn't going to happen since the members who sit on this orchestra's board are a bunch of musical conservatives.  ::)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Franco on August 29, 2010, 04:19:25 PM
Dutilleux is still a composer I am getting to know.  These are the recordings I have so far:


Les Citations 'Diptych'
Sur le même accord, nocturne for violin & orchestra
Le Temps l'horloge
Metaboles
San Francisco Night
Timbres, Espace, Mouvement
The Shadows of time
Mystere de l'Instant
3 Strophes sur le nom de Sacher pour violoncelle solo

I cannot say which is my favorite since I have barely listened to each one time, but can say that he is someone who I find immediately interesting and who I will continue to investigate with much anticipation.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on August 29, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
The Symphonies 1-2
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 29, 2010, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on August 29, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
The Symphonies 1-2

His 2nd symphony gets talked about a lot, but I think his 1st is great too. That last movement almost left me breathless when I first heard it.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 30, 2010, 06:03:48 AM
In reviewing this thread, I've posted just once back in September 2007 - 3 yrs!

In addition to the Chandos 'Orchestral Box', I've added just one disc of this composer to my collection, i.e. solo piano music w/ John Chen on Naxos - giving the disc a repeat listening at the moment as I type.  There is another similar offering on the first page of Amazon w/  Anne Queffélec - would be curious about comparisons and preferences from those who might have heard both of these performances?

Concerning the Chen recording, an excellent review from Fanfare is reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=148467) -  :D

Also would appreciate any comments on the 'chamber works' of Dutilleux?   :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gTtX8vYlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D9JIOEjSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 30, 2010, 10:26:48 PM
the elusive charm of Henri Dutilleux

Thank you "toucan" for that informative (if somewhat opinionated) post.

My problem is simple. I have listened to a number of Dutilleux's works and tried to like him. His critical reputation is very high and this thread overflows with praise for him. Yet somehow my response to him is lukewarm.

Maybe I just don't take to the French aesthetic that privileges coloristic effects over rigorous structural development (I don't much like Debussy and Ravel either). Also, that Holocaust-themed piece he wrote, with the kiddies' voices intoning "Why me?" over and over again, sounded like a sappy exercise in sentimentalism.

Am I just a hopeless philistine or have I not been listening closely enough? (I did think Metaboles was pretty good.) I found the VC on YouTube, so maybe I'll give that a few listens.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 30, 2010, 10:40:28 PM
Quote from: Velimir on August 30, 2010, 10:26:48 PM
the elusive charm of Henri Dutilleux

Thank you "toucan" for that informative (if somewhat opinionated) post.

My problem is simple. I have listened to a number of Dutilleux's works and tried to like him. His critical reputation is very high and this thread overflows with praise for him. Yet somehow my response to him is lukewarm.

Maybe I just don't take to the French aesthetic that privileges coloristic effects over rigorous structural development (I don't much like Debussy and Ravel either). Also, that Holocaust-themed piece he wrote, with the kiddies' voices intoning "Why me?" over and over again, sounded like a sappy exercise in sentimentalism.

Am I just a hopeless philistine or have I not been listening closely enough? (I did think Metaboles was pretty good.) I found the VC on YouTube, so maybe I'll give that a few listens.

If you don't like Debussy or Ravel, then you're just not going to enjoy Dutilleux. So much of his music relies on color rather than structure. Takemitsu is very similar in this regard. Both composers share a lot in common in terms of thinking of colors and textures.

Dutilleux very may well be just not your cup of tea, which is okay. Not everybody likes the same things. Do you own any of his recordings?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 30, 2010, 10:59:35 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 30, 2010, 10:40:28 PM
If you don't like Debussy or Ravel, then you're just not going to enjoy Dutilleux. So much of his music relies on color rather than structure.

Well then it might be hopeless...good thing I've got a couple hundred other composers to enjoy  :)

QuoteDo you own any of his recordings?

I have the Chandos disc with the Cello Cto., Metaboles and something else. Every once in a great while I take it out and give it a spin. I also had an Arte Nova disc with The Shadows of Time and one of his symphonies. I got rid of that one.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Sid on August 31, 2010, 11:22:49 PM
Since some of Dutilleux' works were inspired by poetry or literature, it's a good idea to read some of the primary sources that they were based on. In the case of the cello concerto, it's the poetry of Baudelaire, for the violin concerto, it's Proust's Rememberance of Things Past. I am quite familiar with the former, as I did an essay on Baudelaire at university (as part of a subject on Orientalism in the arts). I am not familiar with Proust, except what I've read about him on the net and in the liner notes. So it's no surprise that I have a stronger connection with the cello concerto - Dutilleux so expertly brings Baudelaire's poetry to life, but he doesn't literally illustrate it, much is left to the listener to perceive on his/her own terms. Apart from it's dreamy quality, the violin concerto (subtitled 'A Tree of Dreams') hasn't conveyed as much meaning to me, and Proust is much harder to get into than Baudelaire. But in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 09:57:07 AM
Quote from: Sid on August 31, 2010, 11:22:49 PMBut in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...

I would love to see some of Dutilleux's music performed live, but here in Georgia, United States, it's just so hard to see this kind of music performed. As I stated, my local symphony, the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, very seldom go out of the norm in their programming. They continue to play the old workhorses night after night and I'm just not going to spend my hard earned money on something that's played all the time. If they were play some Villa-Lobos, Rubbra, or Arvo Part I would be down there right now, but alas, this certainly isn't the case.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on September 01, 2010, 10:04:17 AM
I had the impression (not that this helps viz. Villa-Lobos, Rubbra or Pärt) that Spano has (to the extent that one can, folding new music into a symphony orchestra season) championed living American composers (witness their recording of Michael Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation).

How is that "mission" bearing up in the current environment of financial delicacy?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 10:18:25 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 01, 2010, 10:04:17 AM
I had the impression (not that this helps viz. Villa-Lobos, Rubbra or Pärt) that Spano has (to the extent that one can, folding new music into a symphony orchestra season) championed living American composers (witness their recording of Michael Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation).

How is that "mission" bearing up in the current environment of financial delicacy?


I really don't like Spano's conducting all that much. I think there have been some instances where he has really done a good job (i.e. Golijov), but ultimately, he doesn't seem that passionate about the music he conducts or it just sounds as though he's disinterested. I think firing Yoel Levi was one of ASO's biggest mistakes. I own all of Levi's ASO recordings and most of them are great. I own that Spano recording of Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation and it's a decent work, but not one that I would listen to very often. Spano's RVW recordings (A Sea Symphony, Symphony No. 5) have been lackluster. It's great that he wants to champion American composers, but the question remains: how is the music? I'm not sure what the financial situation is with the ASO right now, but I think they deserve a better conductor than Spano.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on September 01, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 10:18:25 AM
. . . It's great that he wants to champion American composers, but the question remains: how is the music?

Sure, but an environment from which musical masterworks springs, is an environment which generally fosters new music.  The beautiful flower is a comparatively small portion of the rose bush.

I think your estimation of the Garden of Cosmic Spec. is fair, BTW
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on September 01, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
Quote from: Sid on August 31, 2010, 11:22:49 PM
But in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...

Yes I was going to say - I heard and loved these pieces long before I read the two authors. I think the cello concerto is the slightly finer work, and trust your judgement in this (i.e. I don't think it's down to the fact that you haven't read Proust). Proust is possibly my favourite writer, but it doesn't make me love the violin concerto any more or less!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 01, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
Sure, but an environment from which musical masterworks springs, is an environment which generally fosters new music.  The beautiful flower is a comparatively small portion of the rose bush.

I'm not dismissing his decision to conduct new music, I'm just expressing my disappointment of how he continues to ignore the music that has come before this new music.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: karlhenning on September 01, 2010, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 02:16:31 PM
I'm not dismissing his decision to conduct new music, I'm just expressing my disappointment of how he continues to ignore the music that has come before this new music.

Yes . . . but there may only be so much oxygen in the room ; )
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 01, 2010, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 01, 2010, 02:38:20 PM
Yes . . . but there may only be so much oxygen in the room ; )

Lol...that is true. :)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on January 22, 2011, 11:57:14 AM
Today (Jan. 22) is Dutilleux's 95th birthday!  :D

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: John Copeland on January 22, 2011, 02:56:16 PM
Quote from: bhodges on January 22, 2011, 11:57:14 AM
Today (Jan. 22) is Dutilleux's 95th birthday!  :D

--Bruce

His music I have found difficult to follow, but whether I can follow it or not, it makes perfect sense in cerebal dialogue.  Great to hear one of the most interesting voices in music is still alive, I for one like his output very much...but I don't know why.   :-\
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on January 22, 2011, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: John on January 22, 2011, 02:56:16 PM
His music I have found difficult to follow, but whether I can follow it or not, it makes perfect sense in cerebal dialogue.  Great to hear one of the most interesting voices in music is still alive, I for one like his output very much...but I don't know why.   :-\


Dutilleux seems more interested in harmony and textures than he does melody. His rhythms are out-of-this-world as well. A melody for many listeners is a gateway into a musical work, but, for me, harmonies and rhythms are my gateway in most cases, though I have nothing against a nice striking melody. ;)


Anyway, happy birthday to Dutilleux. I hope his perfectionism can at least produce us one more masterpiece.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Joaquimhock on January 23, 2011, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 22, 2011, 06:11:48 PM

Dutilleux seems more interested in harmony and textures than he does melody. His rhythms are out-of-this-world as well. A melody for many listeners is a gateway into a musical work, but, for me, harmonies and rhythms are my gateway in most cases, though I have nothing against a nice striking melody. ;)


Anyway, happy birthday to Dutilleux. I hope his perfectionism can at least produce us one more masterpiece.

He has been very affected by the recent death of his wife the pianist Geneviève Joy, but according to a recent interview he's working on a new piece for the Festival d'Auvers sur Oise in the north of France.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on January 23, 2011, 07:40:14 AM
Quote from: Joaquimhock on January 23, 2011, 12:02:17 AM
He has been very affected by the recent death of his wife the pianist Geneviève Joy, but according to a recent interview he's working on a new piece for the Festival d'Auvers sur Oise in the north of France.


I did not know this. I hope we'll all be able to hear this new work. He's such a master.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: RJR on January 25, 2011, 07:25:33 AM
I was present at the première of Dutilleux's String Quartet 'Ainsi la nuit' in a suburb of Paris on January 6, 1977. It was my last night in Paris before returning to Montréal. It was also my birthday. What a scene it was too. Lots of old folks who had probably been at the Champs Elysée for the first performance of Le Sacre du Printemps and had tirelessly championned contemporary music all their lives. During intermission, after Dutilleux's quartet had just been performed, a voice announced that if anyone wished to meet the composers present they could do so. So I got out of my seat and walked around to the other side and waited for M Dutilleux to finish chatting with someone. In my best French I told him that I loved his music and could I have his autograph.
He leaned over and tapped his wife, Geneviève Joy, on the shoulder and said something to her. She opened up her black purse and pulled out a small card. It turned to be a business card with M and Mme Dutilleux's Ile Saint-Louis written on it. M Dutilleux signed it. Best birthday present ever. It's pasted across the top of one of my Dynaco speakers to this day.
I met M Dutilleux one more time, in Montréal, in 1986, the day after the première of his Violon Concerto, Isaac Stern the soloist. There was a press conference the following day and after that was over I approached M Dutilleux with the card that he had signed for me in 1977. I told him that I had been present for the première of his String Quartet ten years ago. He signed the card again. Later, I wrote him a fan letter. In return he sent me a copy of his autobiography, signed, plus a postcard of an aerial view of his apartment on Ile Saint-Louis.

I first heard of M Dutilleux around 1970 when I bought a copy of Music & Musicians, a British music magazine that I fear no longer exists. There was an article about M Dutilleux's music that also featured an analysis of his ballet, Le Loup. I've been following his career ever since.

Long live Henri Dutilleux!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on January 25, 2011, 07:31:55 AM
What an incredible birthday! Just hearing the premiere of the quartet would have been something all by itself, but then to meet him and get the signed card...how totally great. Then to get to meet him again 9 years later, get the card signed again... :o

Thanks for that vivid, beautifully written snapshot.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on January 25, 2011, 07:32:42 AM
great story!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on January 25, 2011, 09:22:55 AM
Quote from: James on January 23, 2011, 12:05:20 PM
Listening to this gorgeous piece right now ..

TOUT UN MONDE LOINTAIN...

It's an absolute beaut - one of my all time favourite works. I still adore the Rostropovich - such beauty and presence and intensity and no hint that this is maybe the hardest concerto in the semi-standard repertoire.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: DavidW on April 17, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
Well you make that 2nd symphony sound real interesting James.  I might have to add it to my wish list.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2011, 07:18:52 AM
Quote from: haydnfan on April 17, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
Well you make that 2nd symphony sound real interesting James.  I might have to add it to my wish list.

haydnfan I would actually opt for the box set because I have a feeling that you're going to want to hear more music than just the symphonies. ;)

[asin]B00004YU78[/asin]

The set can be purchased around $40 from a seller, but it's worth every penny. I forgot how much I paid for this set but I think it was around $35 or so. It has become one of my most prized possessions. You also couldn't have asked for a better conductor than Tortelier who lives and breathes this music.

The original series was released as three different recordings, but the box set contains a fourth disc that wasn't originally apart of the series and it's a live recording of the masterful The Shadows of Time, which was written for 3 children's voices and orchestra.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2011, 10:02:32 AM
Quote from: Leon on April 17, 2011, 09:56:13 AM
I heartily endorse this message.  I recently bought this set and consider it one of my more enjoyable purchases.   :)

I heartily endorse that message as well. ;) :P ;D
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on June 18, 2011, 03:01:19 PM
Quote from: edward on April 11, 2007, 12:22:41 PM
A few years ago, I was really really big on Dutilleux.

Though my initial enthusiasm hasn't entirely lasted, there are a few pieces I think will rank high in the 20th century pantheon, particularly the Second Symphony, Ainsi la nuit, the Violin Concerto and above all Timbres, Espace, Mouvement (La Nuit Etoilee).

One very pleasing thing about his work is that there really aren't any weak links in his mature output--even the quirky Diptyque: Les Citations has a lot to recommend it.

I'm comparing Slava and Munch in Metaboles. I'm having an eh Dutilleux moment. It may pass.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on June 18, 2011, 07:04:12 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 18, 2011, 03:01:19 PM
I'm comparing Slava and Munch in Metaboles. I'm having an eh Dutilleux moment. It may pass.

I prefer Tortelier in Metaboles. I think his is the more intense, virtuosic performance. The audio quality is also a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on June 18, 2011, 09:06:05 PM
I'm a big fan of Rostropovich's Métaboles. The recording is older, but it has a clarity to it that I haven't heard matched in any other recordings I have heard of the work. It makes the piece sound more exciting and bright, despite the age of the recording.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on June 19, 2011, 05:56:27 AM
Quote from: lescamil on June 18, 2011, 09:06:05 PM
I'm a big fan of Rostropovich's Métaboles. The recording is older, but it has a clarity to it that I haven't heard matched in any other recordings I have heard of the work. It makes the piece sound more exciting and bright, despite the age of the recording.

ok, I was just wondering,... I feel better now!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Scarpia on June 19, 2011, 11:04:37 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 18, 2011, 03:01:19 PM
I'm comparing Slava and Munch in Metaboles. I'm having an eh Dutilleux moment. It may pass.

Quote from: lescamil on June 18, 2011, 09:06:05 PM
I'm a big fan of Rostropovich's Métaboles. The recording is older, but it has a clarity to it that I haven't heard matched in any other recordings I have heard of the work. It makes the piece sound more exciting and bright, despite the age of the recording.

Thanks for pointing out the existence of this recording.  I've never been convinced by the Tortelier recording and I am optimistic that the unique sound and style of the Orchestra de National de France is just what this music needs. 
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on June 19, 2011, 05:42:24 PM
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on June 19, 2011, 11:04:37 AM
Thanks for pointing out the existence of this recording.  I've never been convinced by the Tortelier recording and I am optimistic that the unique sound and style of the Orchestra de National de France is just what this music needs.

Nah...Tortelier's is one of the best available and Dutilleux was even impressed with his performances, so I think the composer knows best.

My suggestion to those just getting into Dutilleux's music: don't listen to what Scarpia says. :D
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: BALCONY on July 28, 2011, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 19, 2011, 05:42:24 PM
Nah...Tortelier's is one of the best available and Dutilleux was even impressed with his performances, so I think the composer knows best.

My suggestion to those just getting into Dutilleux's music: don't listen to what Scarpia says. :D

I have every recording of "Metaboles" ever released, including some rarities, and a well-studied score. I second the nomination of Rostropovitch's "Metaboles" as the best ever of this miraculous work. The performance is superb, and the sound is brilliant, yet warm and expansive. I've returned to it again and again. (Also contains a best-ever "Timbres...")  Also not to be missed is George Szell's performance with the Cleveland orchestra, released  in 1997 as part of a box set commemorating the Szell's centennial. This is a "holy grail" recording from 1967 (Szell had conducted the premiere two years earlier) which sends chills down the spine with its authority and clarity.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
Quote from: BALCONY on July 28, 2011, 01:50:00 PM
I have every recording of "Metaboles" ever released, including some rarities, and a well-studied score. I second the nomination of Rostropovitch's "Metaboles" as the best ever of this miraculous work. The performance is superb, and the sound is brilliant, yet warm and expansive. I've returned to it again and again. (Also contains a best-ever "Timbres...")  Also not to be missed is George Szell's performance with the Cleveland orchestra, released  in 1997 as part of a box set commemorating the Szell's centennial. This is a "holy grail" recording from 1967 (Szell had conducted the premiere two years earlier) which sends chills down the spine with its authority and clarity.

I'll have to checkout Rostropovich's recording as I generally enjoy his conducting. If I'm not mistaken this performance is coupled with The Shadows of Time correct?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on July 28, 2011, 08:39:56 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
I'll have to checkout Rostropovich's recording as I generally enjoy his conducting. If I'm not mistaken this performance is coupled with The Shadows of Time correct?

No, it's with Mystere/Instant on Erato.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 08:44:43 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on July 28, 2011, 08:39:56 PM
No, it's with Mystere/Instant on Erato.

Ah, yes, thanks, but let us not forget this recording:

[asin]B00008LKDH[/asin]
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 08:48:54 PM
There is an all Saraste disk of Dutilleux out there for Saraste fans (I can consider myself one). I really like his lean, sleek quasi-Salonen style (he studied with the legendary Jorma Panula in the same class as Salonen and Osmo Vänskä). Get it for next to nothing!

[asin]B0000206AS[/asin]

His Métaboles isn't on the level of the Rostropovich or Szell recordings, but it is still well worth listening to. I have a personal connection to it, for it was the first recording I ever heard of the work.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 09:26:57 PM
Quote from: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 08:48:54 PM
There is an all Saraste disk of Dutilleux out there for Saraste fans (I can consider myself one). I really like his lean, sleek quasi-Salonen style (he studied with the legendary Jorma Panula in the same class as Salonen and Osmo Vänskä). Get it for next to nothing!

[asin]B0000206AS[/asin]

His Métaboles isn't on the level of the Rostropovich or Szell recordings, but it is still well worth listening to. I have a personal connection to it, for it was the first recording I ever heard of the work.

I like Saraste's conducting, but I just don't know about this recording. Do you own the Tortelier set?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 09:46:37 PM
I do own the Tortelier set, but I haven't listened to it in a while. Generally, I tend to shy away from complete sets, but I remember having mixed feelings about it. Perhaps I should go back and revisit a few of the works. I also have the Hans Graf set, and I've found myself going back to that one more.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 09:59:53 PM
Quote from: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 09:46:37 PM
I do own the Tortelier set, but I haven't listened to it in a while. Generally, I tend to shy away from complete sets, but I remember having mixed feelings about it. Perhaps I should go back and revisit a few of the works. I also have the Hans Graf set, and I've found myself going back to that one more.

You shy away from complete sets? That's kind of an odd attitude I think. Generally, you can purchase complete sets far more cheaper then you can to buy each disc individually.

Anyway, I haven't heard the Graf Dutilleux recordings, but I've heard mixed things about his performances. Also I'm not generally impressed with Arte Nova recordings anyway, so I'll stick to the Tortelier. I haven't even sought out any more Dutilleux recordings after I bought and listened to the Tortelier set, which gives you an idea of how I doubt these performances could be bettered.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
I've had a few bad experiences with some complete sets (mostly for piano, rather than orchestral works), finding them bland and uninspired, and just recorded for the sake of completion. I perhaps shouldn't have this attitude toward orchestral work sets, though. It's a different situation than with piano works, obviously. Anyhow, if I do get a complete set, I find it more as a starting point to just get to know the work, and then you can go out and get a "specialty" recording later. However, there are times when a complete set will have "the" recording for a certain piece or pieces. Perhaps Tortelier is that sort of set, and I'm just missing it. I'll give it a few more tries. It has been a while.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2011, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: lescamil on July 28, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
I've had a few bad experiences with some complete sets (mostly for piano, rather than orchestral works), finding them bland and uninspired, and just recorded for the sake of completion. I perhaps shouldn't have this attitude toward orchestral work sets, though. It's a different situation than with piano works, obviously. Anyhow, if I do get a complete set, I find it more as a starting point to just get to know the work, and then you can go out and get a "specialty" recording later. However, there are times when a complete set will have "the" recording for a certain piece or pieces. Perhaps Tortelier is that sort of set, and I'm just missing it. I'll give it a few more tries. It has been a while.

Yes, I'm talking about orchestral box sets. I'm not a listener of solo piano music, so I couldn't possibly state whether or not I agree/disagree with your opinion. When I first started collecting classical music, the orchestral sets were the way to go for me at first and then I would build on those. In many ways, I'm merely filling in gaps in my collection now.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on July 29, 2011, 07:48:49 AM
Quote from: toucan on July 29, 2011, 06:08:53 AMGenerally, it is better to place more money on a good CD than less on box sets that are usually so uneven in quality.

Perhaps, but when I started seriously collecting about 3 years ago, many of the box sets I bought were cheaper than single releases. I wouldn't say, for example, a set like Jean Martinon's Debussy/Ravel was "weak" in quality. Martinon shined in these two composers. Also, box sets seem to go out-of-print quickly and now I own many box sets that are worth a lot of money. I own a ton of single recordings as well. There are a lot of single releases that are only available in that format.

Anyway, I'm glad I bought a lot of box sets and bought them when I did.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on July 29, 2011, 11:53:12 PM
Changing the subject a bit, do you think we can expect any more chamber music from Dutilleux before he decides to leave our world? I personally would love to see a chamber work for some sort of mixed chamber ensemble with piano (that way I could play it someday, heh). Another string quartet would be nice, too. I would be glad to see anything in that mold. I love his orchestral music, but even he admitted that he hasn't focused enough on chamber music.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Joaquimhock on July 30, 2011, 06:46:47 AM
Quote from: lescamil on July 29, 2011, 11:53:12 PM
Changing the subject a bit, do you think we can expect any more chamber music from Dutilleux before he decides to leave our world? I personally would love to see a chamber work for some sort of mixed chamber ensemble with piano (that way I could play it someday, heh). Another string quartet would be nice, too. I would be glad to see anything in that mold. I love his orchestral music, but even he admitted that he hasn't focused enough on chamber music.

A few months ago bassoonist Pascal Gallois premiered a few melodies by Dutilleux in a arrangement which was not made by the composer but which was clearly approved by him.

Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on August 04, 2011, 04:10:27 AM
Quote from: toucan on July 30, 2011, 06:52:42 AM
For many years now and in many interviews Dutilleux has repeated he is working on a second string quartet. He also says he is not done yet with the human voice (by which I presume he means the human females; and he is still intoxicated with Renee Fleming's voice, which inspired him to Le Temps l'Horloge

A full studio recording with Fleming has just been put down. It will be released along with Ravel's Sheherezade and Messiaens Poemes pour Mi. Presumably it'll be out next year. Where did he say he was still intoxicated with Fleming's voice?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on August 04, 2011, 05:03:10 AM
Did anyone catch the Cello Concerto at the Prom Yesterday?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: not edward on August 04, 2011, 07:08:14 AM
Quote from: Guido on August 04, 2011, 04:10:27 AM
A full studio recording with Fleming has just been put down. It will be released along with Ravel's Sheherezade and Messiaens Poemes pour Mi. Presumably it'll be out next year. Where did he say he was still intoxicated with Fleming's voice?
That's a bit of a silly programming decision; surely they could have put Correspondances (his other soprano and orchestra song cycle) on it as well. Leaving it out makes the disc a lot less appealing IMO.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on August 04, 2011, 10:09:46 AM
I have a broadcast recording of Correspondances with Claron McFadden (a rather overlooked soprano) which is really great. It's something that I don't think I'd like to hear with Fleming, actually. It's a very beautiful work, but just something that I don't think Fleming would sound great in.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Joaquimhock on August 04, 2011, 11:10:40 PM
Quote from: edward on August 04, 2011, 07:08:14 AM
That's a bit of a silly programming decision; surely they could have put Correspondances (his other soprano and orchestra song cycle) on it as well. Leaving it out makes the disc a lot less appealing IMO.

Correspondances has been written for Dawn Upshaw. She planned to record it, but the recording was canceled when she felt ill a few years ago. Dutilleux said in an interview on French radio about 2 years ago that he hoped Dawn Upshaw would soon be able to record it because it was really a work made for her...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on August 05, 2011, 01:12:35 AM
Quote from: Joaquimhock on August 04, 2011, 11:10:40 PM
Correspondances has been written for Dawn Upshaw. She planned to record it, but the recording was canceled when she felt ill a few years ago. Dutilleux said in an interview on French radio about 2 years ago that he hoped Dawn Upshaw would soon be able to record it because it was really a work made for her...

Yes lets hope! Fleming is not at her most relaxed in the already released live recording of the piece, but hopefully the studio will bring security and more beauty of tone. I have to sayI am most looking forward to the Ravel... The Messiaen I'm not sure is completely right for her either, but we'll see. She definitely loves all three pieces a lot. And yes Gilbert is the conductor.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Guido on August 05, 2011, 05:20:38 AM
Quote from: toucan on August 05, 2011, 04:30:36 AM
One of my strongest concert-going experiences involved Renee Fleming during the Paris premiere of Le Temps l'Horloge. Ozawa preceeded her toward the center stage, with his customary briskness and dynamism. You could sense Fleming's much slower pace was due to nervousness. Only reluctantly did she turn toward the public once she reached her alloted spot. And once fully faced with the public, she froze: the expression on her face reminded me of Saddam Hussein confronted with the gallows. As soon as Ozawa & the Orchestra played that first chord, she relaxed, however; and with her own first note, she regained full possession of herself - and of the public, which she guided through the music with her hands and controlled with her eyes. A consumate professional!

Nice story. Just listened again, and it's a nicer piece than I remembered, and she sings it well. The signs of age in the voice sadden me (EDIT: much less bad than I thought, I was just listening in a loud place - she's sounding remkarkably fresh actually), but there's definitely still a floating beauty. It's not very gratefully written for the voice it has to be said... What do people make of it? He's not naturally a writer for the voice it seems. It seems like a minor piece to me in terms of achivement, but it's certainly a charmer, and as always with Dutilleux, the orchestration and ideas are always exquisite, even if it's not quite at the breath taking level of inspiration of say the cello concerto or the string quartet.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on December 07, 2011, 08:29:39 AM
The New York Philharmonic just awarded its inaugural Marie-Josée Kravis Prize for New Music to Henri Dutilleux. Complete press release here (http://nyphil.org/newsroom1112/releases/Dutilleux-release.pdf).

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: not edward on February 09, 2012, 05:27:03 AM
Good to see one hole in the Dutilleux discography being filled up. As well as Correspondances, it'd be nice to get a recording of the newest version of Les Citations, given that it's now a triptyque.

I was recently reminded of Gérard Grisey's description of Dutilleux as a "fake traditionalist". It seems to me a very good term for music that seems comparatively conservative on the surface, but less so as one listens deeper (the later Lutoslawski and Bacewicz, to me, are also excellent examples of this).
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Joaquimhock on February 10, 2012, 10:31:47 AM
Quote from: toucan on February 08, 2012, 05:25:38 PM


It's a shame Correspondances has not yet been recorded, though: are you worthy of the dedication, Sir Simon?

I've heard that if Correspondance has not  been recorded yet it's because of Dawn Upshaw's health problems.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: North Star on February 10, 2012, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: toucan on February 10, 2012, 11:05:50 AM
I have also heard that she does not like Correspondances & therefore does not care to perform it. Which is fine, except as part of their commission agreement with Dutilleux Upshaw, Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic have exclusive rights to a first recording of the piece. If this is the case (what we hear is seldom worth much), perhaps they ought to waive that right.

Indeed, it would be very foolish if the piece wasn't recorded just because Upshaw doesn't like it.

That Fleming disc looks interesting.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on February 10, 2012, 01:39:03 PM
I have uploaded a live recording of Correspondances here, since I see many of you so anxious to hear it. Here is to hoping it gets recorded. Claron McFadden is an excellent soprano that would do it well in a commercial recording.

Info from the concert it is taken from:

Ravel - Valses noble et sentimentales   18’
Dutilleux - Tout un monde lointain   28’
Dutilleux - Correspondances   18’
Debussy - La Mer   26’

Gautier Capuçon, cello
Claron McFadden, soprano
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Jac van Steen, conductor

Discovering Dutilleux 2008
Friday 15 February 2008, St. David’s Hall, Cardiff

http://www.mediafire.com/?i5neicv8u6a3j3p
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on December 15, 2012, 07:00:19 PM
Quote from: James on December 15, 2012, 06:56:57 PM
New Dutilleux soon .. Correspondances, for soprano and orchestra (2003)

[asin]B00AEMAJ50[/asin]


Yes! Love me some Dutilleux. Thanks for the sharing this link, James. 8)

Edit: Also on this new recording is Tout un monde lointain and Shadows of Time. I hope Salonen records ALL of the orchestral works.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on December 15, 2012, 09:36:42 PM
I couldn't be happier to hear Barbara Hannigan do that work. The live recording I have of it is swell, but Hannigan is without a doubt one of the best sopranos for modern music. Karttunen should be amazing with Tout un monde lointain also.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on December 16, 2012, 06:03:26 PM
Quote from: James on December 16, 2012, 06:57:08 AM
I take it most here are aware of this new 5-disc box .. posting it just in case.

[asin]B008BT1060[/asin]

Kudos for mentioning this set, James. I completely forgot about it. Just bought it. 8)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 26, 2012, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: lescamil on February 10, 2012, 01:39:03 PM
I have uploaded a live recording of Correspondances here, since I see many of you so anxious to hear it. Here is to hoping it gets recorded. Claron McFadden is an excellent soprano that would do it well in a commercial recording.

Info from the concert it is taken from:

Ravel - Valses noble et sentimentales   18'
Dutilleux - Tout un monde lointain   28'
Dutilleux - Correspondances   18'
Debussy - La Mer   26'

Gautier Capuçon, cello
Claron McFadden, soprano
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Jac van Steen, conductor

Discovering Dutilleux 2008
Friday 15 February 2008, St. David's Hall, Cardiff

http://www.mediafire.com/?i5neicv8u6a3j3p

Thanks!  You wouldn't happen to have a link to full recordings of both concerts in this series, would you?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on December 27, 2012, 09:20:13 AM
What is the other concert in the series? I may be able to track one down.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 27, 2012, 09:37:46 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0093rzv
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0093s41

Dutilleux: Mystere de l'Instant
Bartok: Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Dutilleux: Deux sonnets de Jeau Cassou
Alain, orch. Dutilleux: Priere pour nous autres charnels
Dutilleux: Symphony No 2 (Le double)

Jeremy Huw Williams (baritone)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Thierry Fischer (conductor)

Discovering Dutilleux 2008
March 11, 2008, St. David's Hall, Cardiff

Thank you!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on December 27, 2012, 09:27:44 PM
Yeah, sure, I have both concerts in that series. Stay tuned.

EDIT: Here they are. Details below:

Ravel - Valses noble et sentimentales   18’
Dutilleux - Tout un monde lointain   28’
Dutilleux - Correspondances   18’
Debussy - La Mer   26’

Gautier Capuçon, cello
Claron McFadden, soprano
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Jac van Steen, conductor

Discovering Dutilleux 2008
Friday 15 February 2008, St. David’s Hall, Cardiff

http://www.mediafire.com/?9wgh6c6a73rz699


Dutilleux - Mystère de l'Instant   17’
Bartók - Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta   31’
Dutilleux - Deux sonnets de Jeau Cassou   7’
Alain - Prière pour nous autres charnels (orch Dutilleux)   7’
Dutilleux - Symphony No 2 (Le double)   31’

Jeremy Huw Williams, baritone
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Jac van Steen, conductor

Discovering Dutilleux 2008
Sunday 17 February 2008, St. David’s Hall, Cardiff

http://www.mediafire.com/?q7wvxc324baw2x9
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 28, 2012, 12:07:08 PM
Wonderful!  Thank you very much! :D

Just one question: your copy of the recording has a different conductor and date listed than the one it lists online.  Which is correct?  Were there two concerts with this program with different conductors but the same soloist?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on December 28, 2012, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: froghawk on December 28, 2012, 12:07:08 PM
Wonderful!  Thank you very much! :D

Just one question: your copy of the recording has a different conductor listed than the one it lists online.  Which is correct?

Sorry. What is listed online is correct. I just copy-pasted the text file in the archives, and what is online is correct as far as I know.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 28, 2012, 12:50:55 PM
Thanks!  What is the nature of these magical archives?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kishnevi on December 28, 2012, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: James on December 16, 2012, 06:57:08 AM
I take it most here are aware of this new 5-disc box .. posting it just in case.

[asin]B008BT1060[/asin]

I'm in the middle of giving that set a first listen this week.  This is not quite my first exposure to Dutilleux;  I also have the ECM CD of the complete piano music.  But the music and performances in the box impress me enough that I'd like to get suggestions of where to move on from here in Dutilleux.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 28, 2012, 06:16:57 PM
Just bought that set and haven't listened yet, but the Tortelier and Graf orchestral sets are great.  You'll also want to get your hands on this epic little piece:
(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/333/333377_1_f.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on December 28, 2012, 06:51:03 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 28, 2012, 05:46:46 PM
I'm in the middle of giving that set a first listen this week.  This is not quite my first exposure to Dutilleux;  I also have the ECM CD of the complete piano music.  But the music and performances in the box impress me enough that I'd like to get suggestions of where to move on from here in Dutilleux.

The Tortelier box set on Chandos is the way to IMHO. It doesn't get much better than this. The Graf performances aren't quite up to par, especially compared to more accomplished performances like Tortelier's.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kishnevi on December 28, 2012, 07:06:01 PM
Thank you.  I've wishlisted the Tortelier;  it's just expensive enough that I won't make it an impulse buy.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on December 28, 2012, 07:09:26 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 28, 2012, 07:06:01 PM
Thank you.  I've wishlisted the Tortelier;  it's just expensive enough that I won't make it an impulse buy.

I think you can get it for $39 plus shipping from Classical Music Superstore (aka Naxos of America). That's what I paid for my set, although mine was $38 still just a dollar difference. As James may have mentioned here, these are 'composer approved' performances. Dutilleux has mentioned that these are his favorite performances of these works.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kishnevi on December 28, 2012, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 28, 2012, 07:09:26 PM
I think you can get it for $39 plus shipping from Classical Music Superstore (aka Naxos of America). That's what I paid for my set, although mine was $38 still just a dollar difference. As James may have mentioned here, these are 'composer approved' performances. Dutilleux has mentioned that these are his favorite performances of these works.

Yes, I saw the pricing on AmazonMP.  Once a set crosses the $30 level (unless it's one of those big box sets),  I start to look for sales and better prices elsewhere; and if Barnes and Noble has it in stock,  I may be able to get a better deal from one of their email coupons. 

But it will be bought, fear not.  It's merely a question of from whom and when.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on December 28, 2012, 07:29:50 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 28, 2012, 07:22:08 PM
Yes, I saw the pricing on AmazonMP.  Once a set crosses the $30 level (unless it's one of those big box sets),  I start to look for sales and better prices elsewhere; and if Barnes and Noble has it in stock,  I may be able to get a better deal from one of their email coupons. 

But it will be bought, fear not.  It's merely a question of from whom and when.

I can understand that. The Tortelier has a special place in my heart, especially considering it's the first Dutilleux...well...anything I've heard.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on December 29, 2012, 08:55:47 AM
Despite the price, pass on the EMI 2-cd set ($9 for mp3):
[asin]B0018OAP52[/asin]
Everything on it but the Baudo/Rostropovich recording of the cello concerto can be found on this new 5-disc Virgin set (~$14 for CDs):
[asin]B008BT1060[/asin]
And the Baudo can be found on a disc with a good recording of Lutoslawski's cello concerto ($9 for mp3):
[asin]B00006I0CJ[/asin]
The Virgin set gives you 3 more discs for only $5 more.  As far as the overlapping content goes, the first disc of the virgin box and second disc of the EMI set is a disc of Plasson conducting three orchestral works, and they are far from the best performances of said works.  The Chung violin concerto (and cello concerto included instead of the Baudo on the Virgin set) are about usual for Chung - good, competent recordings which are nonetheless not the best you can get.  The main advantage of the Virgin set over the other (purely orchestral) boxes is that it includes two discs of chamber music, so it provides a better overall view of Dutilleux's music despite excluding two of his best orchestral works.  It is also the only release that includes a full recording of his ballet, 'Le Loup', but the recording is old and grainy and you won't be able to fully appreciate it unless you speak French, as it includes a narrator.

The Baudo cello concerto is quite excellent should you want to seek out that disc - the piece was written for Rostropovich - but I think you can only buy it as an mp3 download at this point unless you want to buy it used.


As a side note, I really wish there was a recording of the second symphony which really allows you to appreciate the interaction between the two ensembles.  It just sounds like an orchestra with soloists on all the recordings - having never seen it live, I feel I am missing out on the point of the piece.

I also just realized that the third movement of Figures de résonances became the third movement of Shadows of Time nearly 30 years later...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on February 14, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Listening to Salonen's Correspondances disc now... god, Hannigan's voice is incredible.  I had never listened to her before.  Absolutely beautiful.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on February 14, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: froghawk on February 14, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Listening to Salonen's Correspondances disc now... god, Hannigan's voice is incredible.  I had never listened to her before.  Absolutely beautiful.

Hannigan is one of the greatest voices in contemporary music today. I knew this CD would be incredible. That old recording I posted with Claron McFadden isn't bad either. She's another voice I think is really great today in contemporary music.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on February 14, 2013, 10:04:31 PM
Yep, definitely what I figured about that Dutilleux Salonen recording. It's a must-have. :) Will be definitely acquiring it with my birthday money.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: froghawk on February 15, 2013, 06:17:43 AM
What other recordings of hers do you all recommend?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on February 15, 2013, 06:57:32 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 14, 2013, 10:04:31 PM
Yep, definitely what I figured about that Dutilleux Salonen recording. It's a must-have. :) Will be definitely acquiring it with my birthday money.

You're still getting birthday money? You adopting?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on February 15, 2013, 06:57:56 AM
Hannigan is terrific; I've heard her live in Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre and Mysteries of the Macabre (she is repeating the latter here soon with Simon Rattle and the Philadelphia Orchestra) and in Grisey's Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil (which in a perfect world, she would record).

That said, I've not heard this Ligeti Requiem recording below, but friends who have heard it say it's fantastic. (I see she's also recorded a bit of Handel for Naxos, if that is of interest.)

[asin]B00530GMSG[/asin]

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on February 15, 2013, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on February 15, 2013, 06:57:32 AM
You're still getting birthday money? You adopting?

My parents have given me birthday money since I was a teenager. We always give each other money for our birthdays.
Title: Le tombeau de Dutilleux
Post by: Karl Henning on May 22, 2013, 04:57:09 AM
Dutilleux est mort.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Papy Oli on May 22, 2013, 05:46:36 AM
http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/article/2013/05/22/mort-du-compositeur-francais-henri-dutilleux_3415392_3246.html (http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/article/2013/05/22/mort-du-compositeur-francais-henri-dutilleux_3415392_3246.html)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Karl Henning on May 22, 2013, 05:48:19 AM
Merci, mon ami.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on May 22, 2013, 06:41:37 AM
Some saw Boulez running for the top of the mountain...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: lescamil on May 22, 2013, 08:48:54 AM
Listen to a number of his works here in live performance. This site seems to always do a memorial for fallen contemporary composers.

http://concerthuis.radio4.nl/zaal/5/Hedendaagse_muziek_zaal/408/eerder_uitgelicht/
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Joaquimhock on May 22, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
Tomorrow radio France Musique will dedicate all its programs to Dutilleux and broadcast all his (official) compositions
http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/ev/fiche.php?eve_id=315000720
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 06, 2013, 08:14:52 PM
What do you guys think of Hans Graf's Dutilleux performances on Arte Nova? I think they make a nice contrast to Tortelier's on Chandos. Graf has a Boulezian type of approach to the music whereas Tortelier seems to be more Karajan-like and let's the music flow with special attention being put on the strings. Both approaches work extremely well and both conductors seem to hit those climaxes just right, but I'm still making my way through Graf's cycle.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 08:35:15 AM
Nobody a fan of Graf's Dutilleux cycle on Arte Nova?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 08:35:15 AM
Nobody a fan of Graf's Dutilleux cycle on Arte Nova?

I only own Tortelier's excellent Dutilleux set on Chandos and couldn't imagine it being bettered :)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 09:03:19 AM
Quote from: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
I only own Tortelier's excellent Dutilleux set on Chandos and couldn't imagine it being bettered :)

??? Oh, then you would sadly mistaken. :) I like the transparency of Graf's performances and I believe you will too if you give them a listen.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Opus106 on August 07, 2013, 09:24:02 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 09:03:19 AM
??? Oh, then you would sadly mistaken. :) I like the transparency of Graf's performances and I believe you will too if you give them a listen.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg683452.html#msg683452

Live and learn, people. 0:) ;)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on August 07, 2013, 09:24:02 AM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg683452.html#msg683452

Live and learn, people. 0:) ;)

::) I lived and learned that I was sadly mistaken. :)
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on August 07, 2013, 09:48:06 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 09:30:14 AM
::) I lived and learned that I was sadly mistaken. :)

Isn't there almost a glut of HD on cd now?? Tell ya what,... you can be my go-to guy when there's expense to be incurred,... I'll have to stick with Chandos until such time as I can indulge... which... at this point... aye aye...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on August 07, 2013, 09:48:06 AM
Isn't there almost a glut of HD on cd now?? Tell ya what,... you can be my go-to guy when there's expense to be incurred,... I'll have to stick with Chandos until such time as I can indulge... which... at this point... aye aye...

Well the Graf set can be had quite cheaply ($13 on Presto Classical) and it's definitely worth acquiring IMHO just for the different feel he brings to the music.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 09:03:19 AM
??? Oh, then you would sadly mistaken. :) I like the transparency of Graf's performances and I believe you will too if you give them a listen.

OK, I'll look into them. :) Clarity is something that would be beneficial in music like Dutilleux's, I would imagine. There's much to enjoy in Tortelier's more "flying colors" approach, though!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 07:02:38 PM
OK, I'll look into them. :) Clarity is something that would be beneficial in music like Dutilleux's, I would imagine. There's much to enjoy in Tortelier's more "flying colors" approach, though!

I certainly would want to be without either cycle. Both have their merits.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Opus106 on September 23, 2013, 06:51:09 AM
No, it's not a re-hash of the EMI set.

[asin]B00F3J7UVK[/asin]

List of contents available at Presto (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564642755).
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 23, 2013, 06:59:15 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on September 23, 2013, 06:51:09 AM
No, it's not a re-hash of the EMI set.

[asin]B00F3J7UVK[/asin]

List of contents available at Presto (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564642755).

Excellent! This will compliment my Graf and Tortelier sets just fine. I also own the Virgin Classics set, but found the disc with Plasson conducting Symphonies 1 & 2 to be lacking the kind of intensity I get from Graf and Tortelier. Anyway, this is good news about that Erato set.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on September 23, 2013, 07:39:24 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 23, 2013, 06:59:15 AM
Excellent! This will compliment my Graf and Tortelier sets just fine. I also own the Virgin Classics set, but found the disc with Plasson conducting Symphonies 1 & 2 to be lacking the kind of intensity I get from Graf and Tortelier. Anyway, this is good news about that Erato set.

Yea, I guess... but most everything there has more definitive performances elsewhere. I do have the Slava disc of 'Metaboles' et al on Erato which is fine, but I imagine the Chandos version must be more sumptuous?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on September 23, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 23, 2013, 07:39:24 AM
Yea, I guess... but most everything there has more definitive performances elsewhere. I do have the Slava disc of 'Metaboles' et al on Erato which is fine, but I imagine the Chandos version must be more sumptuous?

Haven't heard the Slava recording you're referring to, but, yes, the Tortelier is quite sumptuous. No question about it.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: kyjo on September 23, 2013, 11:45:50 AM
Slava turned out stunning performances of the Dutilleux and Lutoslawski CCs in this recording:

[asin]B00006I0CJ[/asin]
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: snyprrr on September 24, 2013, 06:52:57 AM
Quote from: kyjo on September 23, 2013, 11:45:50 AM
Slava turned out stunning performances of the Dutilleux and Lutoslawski CCs in this recording:

[asin]B00006I0CJ[/asin]

Yes, we've aaalways had that one. Classic! Reminds me of that other EMI disc with Schmidt/Busoni/Lutoslawski...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Herman on January 10, 2014, 05:39:22 AM
Quote from: Brewski on February 15, 2013, 06:57:56 AM
Hannigan is terrific; I've heard her live in Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre and Mysteries of the Macabre

There's an exuberant performance on youtube.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mozart Dave on January 10, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
Fine, let's hear it, Herman!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: North Star on January 10, 2014, 12:30:52 PM
Quote from: Mozart Dave on January 10, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
Fine, let's hear it, Herman!
From the Ligeti thread:
Quote from: Brewski on June 05, 2010, 03:44:21 PM
The NY Philharmonic has put up a few excerpts from last week's performance of Le Grand Macabre.  Here is Barbara Hannigan as Gepopo, along with Anthony Roth Costanzo as Prince Go-Go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-p1utKFxCg

--Bruce
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on February 10, 2014, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: James on February 10, 2014, 02:31:06 PM
Coming February 18th ..

[asin]B00HHYVZLU[/asin]


Will be interesting to see what they pull from their archives. I don't think DG has too many Dutilleux recordings in their catalogue.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: not edward on February 10, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
There's a few from other Universal labels in it and some recordings licensed from other labels:

Of the major works:

Symphony #2/Metaboles/Timbres, Espaces, Mouvement are from the Bychkov disc on Philips
The concerti are from the Dutoit disc with Pierre Amoyal and Lynn Harrell on Decca (Sur le meme accord is the Mutter recording)
Mystere de l'Instant is from the Graf set on Arte Nova
The piano sonata is with Marie-Claire Le Guay; the other solo piano pieces are from the Robert Levin disc on ECM
Correspondances and The Shadows of Time are from the recent Salonen disc on DG
Le temps l'horloge and Deux sonnets de Jean Cassou are from the Fleming disc on Decca
Ainsi la nuit, Les citations and Figures de resonances are from the Erato boxed set that's been around for years
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on February 10, 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Quote from: edward on February 10, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
There's a few from other Universal labels in it and some recordings licensed from other labels:

Of the major works:

Symphony #2/Metaboles/Timbres, Espaces, Mouvement are from the Bychkov disc on Philips
The concerti are from the Dutoit disc with Pierre Amoyal and Lynn Harrell on Decca (Sur le meme accord is the Mutter recording)
Mystere de l'Instant is from the Graf set on Arte Nova
The piano sonata is with Marie-Claire Le Guay; the other solo piano pieces are from the Robert Levin disc on ECM
Correspondances and The Shadows of Time are from the recent Salonen disc on DG
Le temps l'horloge and Deux sonnets de Jean Cassou are from the Fleming disc on Decca
Ainsi la nuit, Les citations and Figures de resonances are from the Erato boxed set that's been around for years

Never understood the reason DG or Decca even uses their own labels anymore since they're all under the same umbrella. Universal Music Group aren't the brightest bunch when it comes to marketing. What they should do is subdivide their label. Like, example, just put their classical recordings under the name Universal Classical or something like this. Why try to preserve DG or Decca when this would be just so much easier. They dissolved Philips, so why not do the same for DG and Decca?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Cosi bel do on November 12, 2014, 06:03:58 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 10, 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Never understood the reason DG or Decca even uses their own labels anymore since they're all under the same umbrella. Universal Music Group aren't the brightest bunch when it comes to marketing. What they should do is subdivide their label. Like, example, just put their classical recordings under the name Universal Classical or something like this. Why try to preserve DG or Decca when this would be just so much easier. They dissolved Philips, so why not do the same for DG and Decca?

They dissolved Philips because it was a condition in the original deal, when Seagram/Universal Music Group bought Polygram from Philips electronics, that the "Philips" label could not be commercialy used for more than 10 years (recordings officially ceased to be released and sold under the Philips label in 2009).
Now, keeping several labels is quite efficient actually, it allows different strategies for each. In the 1990s, for instance, there was the mainstream DG label, the baroque Archiv, the midprice Philips and the "Home of opera" Decca labels. It seems the difference is now done more in terms of pricing, with Decca being the "luxury/expensive" label of UMG. And the box-sets have actually allowed UMG to reactivate defunct labels, as Mercury or Westminster, that have a particular image and a strong impact on the public.
Just like Sony continues to publish recordings and sets under the Living Stereo, RCA, Columbia, Vivarte, Seon or Sony labels.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Cosi bel do on November 12, 2014, 06:05:48 AM
I don't think this recording has ever been commercialy released. It is the premiere performance of Métaboles, by George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra. I think anyone interested in Dutilleux should know it.

http://www.youtube.com/v/pNEsM5X7vEg
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Turner on December 19, 2015, 11:11:01 AM
Recently got this, Dervaux´s old recording of the 1st Symphony, on a Vega LP.
It´s in mono but a very expressive performance, with quite good, dense, detailed and warm sound.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: James on January 20, 2016, 11:09:32 AM
BBC Radio 3 - Henri Dutilleux 100
A collection of programmes to mark the centenary of one of French music's great composers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03fm1k2
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: bhodges on August 22, 2016, 05:42:00 AM
Anyone who admires Dutilleux may want to investigate some of this year's Proms concerts, available for listening on the BBC's website, since they are marking the composer's centenary. Now listening to Timbres, espace, mouvement (1978), in a beautifully detailed performance from Sakari Oramo and the BBCSO, and there are other gems, too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/enw2mb#p044b0jc

--Bruce

Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Ainsi la nuit on March 21, 2018, 05:01:27 PM
Scribbling down a few thoughts about this wonderful composer, one of my very favourites! (Apologies, it became quite a long read)

I fell in love with Dutilleux a few years ago, when I got to know his magnificent (albeit short!) nocturne for violin and orchestra, titled Sur le même accord which was written for Anne-Sophie Mutter. The fact that this intriguing gem that kept my attention for its entire 10-minute duration was written over the course of 15 whole years felt crazy, and I needed to know more. It didn't take long for me to discover...

...the incredible cello concerto tout un monde lointain... which Dutilleux didn't call a concerto per se but is almost universally considered as such. What an astounding work, so full of mystery and passion! It took me a few listens to really "get" it, but it won me over eventually. I think it's one of the best concertos written for the instrument by anyone. It takes me to a journey of immense, cosmic proportions - but I wont go into too much details, since I don't think sharing personal impressions is very useful. Anyhow, after this piece I had to hear the remaining concerto, the L'arbre des songes for violin and orchestra. Needless to say, I was hooked by now.

The symphonies was a logical next step. They're early works that both stem from the early part of Dutilleux' career. The 1st from 1951 is a stunningly original work, even if it isn't harmonically as adventurous as some of the more daring and experimental composers from that era - but that wasn't Dutilleux' intention to begin with, and his work should be observed on its own terms. While I'm in the topic, I must say that I'm a fierce defender of both Dutilleux and Boulez; the two composers who represented very different approaches to post-war composition and are often pitted against each other in arguments. They certainly didn't have a warm relationship, and Boulez never conducted a single note of Dutilleux' music, but as Dutilleux himself said: "I don't talk about him and he doesn't talk about me" -- and later: "Our relations are now very good, très chaleureux -- at the moment I have no problems with him. I even like the fact that he is no longer certain, but is a man riven by doubt, as we all should be." Well put, I think. It's important to note that the Boulez of the 50's and 60's didn't really exist anymore later. He became quite a mellow man, albeit with strong convictions.

Anyhow, the symphonies are essential works for anyone interested in this man's music. It's interesting that he never returned to this genre after the strange 2nd finished in 1959 - maybe he had said everything that needed to be heard? Or maybe the prospect of writing in such a grandiose genre was too daunting for the aging man...

The string quartet Ainsi la nuit and the curious Les citations for oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion are works that I love immensely. There's a certain austerity in these works that he was unable to express in his orchestral works because those just keep exploding with lush colours and carefully crafted sound surfaces. In the chamber works - as in some piano works; think about the preludes - he reached a different kind of intimacy. Very interesting stuff, even if there's very little of it!

The Correspondances for soprano and orchestra is one of my all-time favourite pieces of music. It's simply a stunning work in which every note feels like being in the exact right place. The vocal line is so soft, so expressive. And the words - how the singer says toujours, toujours... at the end of the A Slava et Galina movement; it's pure magic! Or how about the Danse cosmique, how those percussive interjections feel like messages from a different universe? It's overwhelming, but still so subtle. Now that I think of it, this piece might be my favourite Dutilleux piece!

I agree with Esa-Pekka Salonen that most of what Dutilleux wrote is simply masterful, as if weighed "with golden scales". It's so important to me, and sometimes I suffer a lot because there isn't more of it. But quality over quantity, I guess - and this applies to Boulez as well!

There are plenty of recordings available that I love. I have the Erato Centenary Edition in my shelf that includes a lot of good performances  - like Hannigan singing Correspondances, Rostropovich playing tout un monde lointain... and Dutilleux' wife Geneviève Joy playing the piano sonata. It doesn't include all of his music, though, like the Trois tableaux symphoniques. But there are a lot many great interpretations available; I'm particularly fond of Ludovic Morlot's recordings of all of the main orchestral works with the Seattle Symphony.

The one thing I hope that these works would make their way more to my local concert hall's programmes - I've only ever heard the Timbres, espace, mouvement live, but I know that I've missed a few as well. I can only hope! How about other people here on this forum? I see this thread hasn't been active very recently, hopefully I haven't missed a more recent one. Favourite pieces? Memorable concert experiences? Appraisals, criticisms? I'd be interested to hear!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Cato on March 21, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Ainsi la nuit on March 21, 2018, 05:01:27 PM
Scribbling down a few thoughts about this wonderful composer, one of my very favourites! (Apologies, it became quite a long read)

I fell in love with Dutilleux a few years ago, when I got to know his magnificent (albeit short!) nocturne for violin and orchestra, titled Sur le même accord which was written for Anne-Sophie Mutter. The fact that this intriguing gem that kept my attention for its entire 10-minute duration was written over the course of 15 whole years felt crazy, and I needed to know more. It didn't take long for me to discover...

...the incredible cello concerto tout un monde lointain... which Dutilleux didn't call a concerto per se but is almost universally considered as such. What an astounding work, so full of mystery and passion! It took me a few listens to really "get" it, but it won me over eventually. I think it's one of the best concertos written for the instrument by anyone. It takes me to a journey of immense, cosmic proportions - but I wont go into too much details, since I don't think sharing personal impressions is very useful. Anyhow, after this piece I had to hear the remaining concerto, the L'arbre des songes for violin and orchestra. Needless to say, I was hooked by now.

The symphonies was a logical next step. They're early works that both stem from the early part of Dutilleux' career. The 1st from 1951 is a stunningly original work, even if it isn't harmonically as adventurous as some of the more daring and experimental composers from that era - but that wasn't Dutilleux' intention to begin with, and his work should be observed on its own terms. While I'm in the topic, I must say that I'm a fierce defender of both Dutilleux and Boulez; the two composers who represented very different approaches to post-war composition and are often pitted against each other in arguments. They certainly didn't have a warm relationship, and Boulez never conducted a single note of Dutilleux' music, but as Dutilleux himself said: "I don't talk about him and he doesn't talk about me" -- and later: "Our relations are now very good, très chaleureux -- at the moment I have no problems with him. I even like the fact that he is no longer certain, but is a man riven by doubt, as we all should be." Well put, I think. It's important to note that the Boulez of the 50's and 60's didn't really exist anymore later. He became quite a mellow man, albeit with strong convictions.

Anyhow, the symphonies are essential works for anyone interested in this man's music. It's interesting that he never returned to this genre after the strange 2nd finished in 1959 - maybe he had said everything that needed to be heard? Or maybe the prospect of writing in such a grandiose genre was too daunting for the aging man...

The string quartet Ainsi la nuit and the curious Les citations for oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion are works that I love immensely. There's a certain austerity in these works that he was unable to express in his orchestral works because those just keep exploding with lush colours and carefully crafted sound surfaces. In the chamber works - as in some piano works; think about the preludes - he reached a different kind of intimacy. Very interesting stuff, even if there's very little of it!

The Correspondances for soprano and orchestra is one of my all-time favourite pieces of music. It's simply a stunning work in which every note feels like being in the exact right place. The vocal line is so soft, so expressive. And the words - how the singer says toujours, toujours... at the end of the A Slava et Galina movement; it's pure magic! Or how about the Danse cosmique, how those percussive interjections feel like messages from a different universe? It's overwhelming, but still so subtle. Now that I think of it, this piece might be my favourite Dutilleux piece!

I agree with Esa-Pekka Salonen that most of what Dutilleux wrote is simply masterful, as if weighed "with golden scales". It's so important to me, and sometimes I suffer a lot because there isn't more of it. But quality over quantity, I guess - and this applies to Boulez as well!

There are plenty of recordings available that I love. I have the Erato Centenary Edition in my shelf that includes a lot of good performances  - like Hannigan singing Correspondances, Rostropovich playing tout un monde lointain... and Dutilleux' wife Geneviève Joy playing the piano sonata. It doesn't include all of his music, though, like the Trois tableaux symphoniques. But there are a lot many great interpretations available; I'm particularly fond of Ludovic Morlot's recordings of all of the main orchestral works with the Seattle Symphony.

The one thing I hope that these works would make their way more to my local concert hall's programmes - I've only ever heard the Timbres, espace, mouvement live, but I know that I've missed a few as well. I can only hope! How about other people here on this forum? I see this thread hasn't been active very recently, hopefully I haven't missed a more recent one. Favourite pieces? Memorable concert experiences? Appraisals, criticisms? I'd be interested to hear!

Many thanks for the comments and recommendations!

I came across Dutilleux through George Szell and The Cleveland Orchestra many years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/v/pNEsM5X7vEg

Also in the 1970's I heard his Symphony #2 and was highly impressed!  It is high time to revisit his works!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion LES CITATIONS
Post by: snyprrr on March 22, 2018, 07:18:20 AM
'Les Citations', anyone? Just heard this... Classic Modern Chamber Music...
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion LES CITATIONS
Post by: Ainsi la nuit on March 26, 2018, 03:07:12 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 22, 2018, 07:18:20 AM
'Les Citations', anyone? Just heard this... Classic Modern Chamber Music...

It's a really fascinating piece, already when one takes a look at the instrumentation: oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion - how many pieces are there for this group of instruments? The piece is governed by an air of mystery, as is much of the composer's music. For some reason I connect this piece in my head with his Mystère l'instant, maybe because both works end similarly in a triumphant rhythmic gesture - I don't know how else to describe it. You never know where the piece is going, at least when you hear it for the first time. And the inclusion of the harpsichord makes me smile, as I love the instrument especially in a modern/contemporary context.

As I already mentioned in my earlier post, I think it's a terrible shame that Dutilleux didn't write more music for chamber ensembles. Sometimes great artistic talent comes with a terrible cost, which in his case was the painstakingly long process of creation.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Maestro267 on March 27, 2018, 12:01:45 AM
As it happens, I listened to Dutilleux's Symphony No. 1 yesterday, and enjoyed it. Now, after the above posts, I'm giving Les Citations a go, courtesy of the 7-disc Erato/Warner Dutilleux Centenary Edition I picked up back in December 2016. The 7th disc is devoted to the chamber music, and there are some interesting instrument combos here, including a work for trombone and piano.

Update as I'm listening: That's a very unusual sound the oboist makes near the end of the 1st movt. of Les Citations!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Baron Scarpia on March 27, 2018, 12:02:52 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 27, 2018, 12:01:45 AM
As it happens, I listened to Dutilleux's Symphony No. 1 yesterday, and enjoyed it. Now, after the above posts, I'm giving Les Citations a go, courtesy of the 7-disc Erato/Warner Dutilleux Centenary Edition I picked up back in December 2016. The 7th disc is devoted to the chamber music, and there are some interesting instrument combos here, including a work for trombone and piano.

I recall an oboe sonata on that disc which I enjoyed.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Ainsi la nuit on March 27, 2018, 03:23:55 AM
The early chamber works of Dutilleux are indeed filled with interesting instruments - flute, trombone, bassoon and oboe, all of them with the piano. If my memory serves me, Dutilleux was asked to compose those works for a conservatory project that aimed at expanding the repertoire for those instruments. And they sure did! The composer himself thought very little of these early efforts, but I think they're really charming and valuable pieces for anyone playing those instruments. I'm glad Dutilleux didn't destroy the scores!
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Cato on March 27, 2018, 04:06:00 AM
Courtesy of YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/v/4vUnM9-GQbo
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: vers la flamme on October 12, 2019, 05:21:02 PM
I am getting into the music of Henri Dutilleux a bit lately. He has written some great music; I really like the violin concerto, "L'arbre des songes", as well as the first symphony, and Timbres, espace, mouvement "La nuit étoilée". He has a really unique orchestral sound among French composers. The only composer I can think of who sounds remotely similar is Lutoslawski. Indeed, I can't help but wonder if Dutilleux and Lutoslawski knew of each other.

I have a couple discs in the Chandos series with Yan Pascal Tortelier and the BBC Philharmonic, I plan on collecting more.

Anyone listening to Dutilleux lately?
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: vandermolen on October 12, 2019, 11:54:14 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 12, 2019, 05:21:02 PM
I am getting into the music of Henri Dutilleux a bit lately. He has written some great music; I really like the violin concerto, "L'arbre des songes", as well as the first symphony, and Timbres, espace, mouvement "La nuit étoilée". He has a really unique orchestral sound among French composers. The only composer I can think of who sounds remotely similar is Lutoslawski. Indeed, I can't help but wonder if Dutilleux and Lutoslawski knew of each other.

I have a couple discs in the Chandos series with Yan Pascal Tortelier and the BBC Philharmonic, I plan on collecting more.

Anyone listening to Dutilleux lately?

Yes, especially symphonies 1 and 2, Métaboles and the fine Cello Concerto.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: vers la flamme on October 13, 2019, 03:55:14 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 12, 2019, 11:54:14 PM
Yes, especially symphonies 1 and 2, Métaboles and the fine Cello Concerto.
I have a CD with the two symphonies, and I just ordered one with the cello concerto (along with Lutoslawski's cello concerto) played by Mstislav Rostropovich. Excited to hear that one.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on October 14, 2019, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 13, 2019, 03:55:14 AM
I have a CD with the two symphonies, and I just ordered one with the cello concerto (along with Lutoslawski's cello concerto) played by Mstislav Rostropovich. Excited to hear that one.

Dutilleux's Cello Concerto, "Tout un monde lointain..." should be required listening for anyone interested in late 20th Century, IMHO. The same could be said of Lutoslawski's.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: vers la flamme on October 14, 2019, 01:39:30 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 14, 2019, 12:56:56 PM
Dutilleux's Cello Concerto, "Tout un monde lointain..." should be required listening for anyone interested in late 20th Century, IMHO. The same could be said of Lutoslawski's.
I love the Luto concerto, the recording I am familiar with features Heinrich Schiff. Excited to hear Slava play it. Wasn't it written for him? I know that they say Dutilleux's concerto is among his best works.
Title: Re: Dutilleux's Dark Dominion
Post by: Mirror Image on October 14, 2019, 01:44:10 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 14, 2019, 01:39:30 PM
I love the Luto concerto, the recording I am familiar with features Heinrich Schiff. Excited to hear Slava play it. Wasn't it written for him? I know that they say Dutilleux's concerto is among his best works.

Yeah, both of these cello concerti were written for Rostropovich. You'll find much enjoyment here.