Quiz: Mystery scores

Started by Sean, August 27, 2007, 06:49:47 AM

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Luke

The second one, you'll have noted, also uses four different clefs over four staves, though it is also for a single pianist. By far the earliest 3+ stave keyboard writing I know of, unless my memory is faulty. BTW at the beginning of the book the first of my samples is written out in a more normal notation.

The idea that they are for sight-reading tests at the Conservatoire - I don't know about that, they are pretty early, and I'm not sure if such tests were given at that stage....however, the composer did work at the Conservatoire IIRC, and these are 'exercises' (or etudes). This composer is quite a well-known name whose music I've known about and heard around and about since I was very young, and yet until last week I had not realised what a remarkable fund of iconoclastic ideas he was. In addition to these experiments in musical orthography he was an early user of irregular measures, derived from Eastern European folksong; he wrote large-scale sets of fugues traversing the keys a la Bach, but with new inventions in fugal technique (e.g. the answer can be at any interval - there's one at the tritone!; another fugue uses only white notes a la Shostakovich op 87/1, but cadences on all seven degrees in all possible modes); and he was even interested in the potential of microtonality. To emphasize, if it isn't obvious - he is a contemporary of Beethoven!  :o (Also a friend, though LVB didn't think much of his fugal innovations!)

Dax

Is this Reicha? I didn't know that he was into irregular bar lengths.

Luke

Yes, it is! And yes he does. For example in the incredible op 36 fugues there are three such irregularly barred pieces - one in 5/8 (written 3/8+2/8) one in 7/4 (4/4+3/4) and one written in 6/8+2/8. He goes to the length of rewriting the subject alone at the head to show what rhythmic errors to be wary of (eg tripletising the groups of three). In the extensive introduction there is a section on irregular metres and a transcription of a folksong from Alsace in 5

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

listener

about to bump mine to clean up the backlog but first
Luke's #5   Last Dances by Andrew Violette?
"Keep your hand on the throttle and your eye on the rail as you walk through life's pathway."

Luke

No - perhaps you meant my #6 which is by Violette, but it isn't the piece you named. It is commercially available, though, and it is an overwhelming piece, too. But I think I will give the answers to the missing ones soon, if this latest brief resurgence of the thread doesn't prompt anyone to have another look.

listener

Here's the bump of the two unidentified, if I get the attachments right the waltz was appropriately posted in May-June, Maciek would recognize the overture fragment of the other
"Keep your hand on the throttle and your eye on the rail as you walk through life's pathway."

EigenUser

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on October 13, 2015, 11:34:41 PM
The second one isn't by Debussy or Ravel is it? Somehow it looks French.
The second one is French (those ridiculous string divisis are pretty much dead giveaways lol), but it isn't Debussy or Ravel. A rarer piece by a famous composer.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: EigenUser on January 07, 2016, 03:42:40 PM
The second one is French (those ridiculous string divisis are pretty much dead giveaways lol), but it isn't Debussy or Ravel. A rarer piece by a famous composer.
Messiaen perhaps? I confess I haven't listened to much from his oeuvre.

EigenUser

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 07, 2016, 04:20:13 PM
Messiaen perhaps?
Yes, it is. Le Tombeau Resplendissant (written around 1931-2, I believe). An early work.

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 07, 2016, 04:20:13 PM
I confess I haven't listened to much from his oeuvre.
Fix that now! >:(
https://www.youtube.com/v/KJ42fBDE8xY
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: EigenUser on January 08, 2016, 01:49:04 AM
Yes, it is. Le Tombeau Resplendissant (written around 1931-2, I believe). An early work.
Fix that now! >:(
https://www.youtube.com/v/KJ42fBDE8xY
Aha! I thought I recognised a mode of limited transposition in there ;)

And yup I'll certainly listen to more Messiaen! Thank for the link. :)

EigenUser

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 08, 2016, 02:21:55 AM
Aha! I thought I recognised a mode of limited transposition in there ;)

And yup I'll certainly listen to more Messiaen! Thank for the link. :)
;D

As a hint, the first of the two that I posted is not a French composer, but...
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: EigenUser on January 08, 2016, 12:17:23 PM
;D

As a hint, the first of the two that I posted is not a French composer, but...
The hairpins and swells of orchestral colour are making me think of something from Ligeti's middle period....but I could be way off. I haven't seen scores for many of the repertoire I'm trying to imagine!

EigenUser

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 08, 2016, 03:14:55 PM
The hairpins and swells of orchestral colour are making me think of something from Ligeti's middle period....but I could be way off. I haven't seen scores for many of the repertoire I'm trying to imagine!
No, not Ligeti.

This composer isn't French, but he was influenced by French composers in particular.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: EigenUser on January 08, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
No, not Ligeti.

This composer isn't French, but he was influenced by French composers in particular.
Matthias Pintscher? (shot in the dark)

EigenUser

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 08, 2016, 10:34:26 PM
Matthias Pintscher? (shot in the dark)
Nope. More famous than Pintscher (and from an earlier generation -- no longer alive). He also did many film scores.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: EigenUser on January 09, 2016, 02:10:47 AM
Nope. More famous than Pintscher (and from an earlier generation -- no longer alive). He also did many film scores.
I am going to give up because I'm just guessing right now, most likely all will be wrong unless I am lucky :/

EigenUser

No one has guessed this one yet? Luke?
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Luke

Well, what it looks like is Takemitsu, and then looking at your clues that does seem to make some sense. So, is it Uncle Toru?

EigenUser

Quote from: Luke on January 18, 2016, 04:08:53 PM
Well, what it looks like is Takemitsu, and then looking at your clues that does seem to make some sense. So, is it Uncle Toru?
;D

Dream/Window (This part, which somehow reminds me of something from The Planets: https://youtu.be/Xa2It9kigRc?t=6m31s)
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".