CPE Bach (Carl Philipp Emanuel)

[André]

Don't forget his cello concertos. The writer for the Hyperion issue talks about the 'unpredictable and fantastical qualities so fundamental to the music of CPE Bach'. Very much so. They have been recorded many times over.

[kyjo]

Don't forget his cello concertos. The writer for the Hyperion issue talks about the 'unpredictable and fantastical qualities so fundamental to the music of CPE Bach'. Very much so. They have been recorded many times over.

I'm not familiar with much of CPE Bach's music, but the fantastic, inventive, and forward-looking cello concerti make me want to explore further. Truls Mørk's recordings are excellent:

[asin]B003D0ZNX8[/asin]

[71 dB]

^Beautiful artwork on those Hyperion discs.

Indeed! Hyperion has usually nice cover artwork, but the font faces are often a bit silly as is the case here: "Keyboard Sonatas" is written with perhaps a little bit too fancy font. 

[71 dB]

Don't forget his cello concertos. The writer for the Hyperion issue talks about the 'unpredictable and fantastical qualities so fundamental to the music of CPE Bach'. Very much so. They have been recorded many times over.

I have the 30 CD boxset on Brilliant Classics and it has one disc dedicated to three Cello Concertos Wq170-172 (Raphael Wallfisch/Scottish Ensemble/Jonathan Morton) I need to revisit the disc (and the boxset for that matter because C.P.E. Bach is a wonderful composer).

[aukhawk]

Gaillard, Bylsma, Coin, Dieltiens, Suzuki - among others, have recorded the three cello concerti, of these only Gaillard is split across two discs.  And my own recent discovery favourite, Julian Steckel

[Jo498]

AFAIR all non-keyboard concerti (flute, oboe, cello) are arrangements of keyboard concerti, all the three cello concerti also exist for flute. (I cannot find the corresponding harpsichord versions now).
170 a -> 166
171 Bflat -> 167
172 A -> 168

[vers la flamme]

Dipping my toes in the water again with CPE Bach's music. Mostly listening to the Hamburg Symphonies (w/ obbligato winds) and Sinfonias (for strings + continuo only). I have a great Brilliant disc with Didier Talpain and Solamente Naturali (about whom I know nothing) and another great Naxos disc with Christian Benda and the Capella Istropolitana. I want to branch out from here and get more, probably starting with the cello concertos.

Thoughts on Bylsma/Leonhardt/OAE on Virgin?

[Scion7]

the best of the Bach kids, IMHO - but the others are pretty great!

[Daverz]

Dipping my toes in the water again with CPE Bach's music. Mostly listening to the Hamburg Symphonies (w/ obbligato winds) and Sinfonias (for strings + continuo only). I have a great Brilliant disc with Didier Talpain and Solamente Naturali (about whom I know nothing) and another great Naxos disc with Christian Benda and the Capella Istropolitana. I want to branch out from here and get more, probably starting with the cello concertos.

Thoughts on Bylsma/Leonhardt/OAE on Virgin?

I'll second Mørk in the Cello Concertos.

For the Wq. 182 and 183 symphonies, I've been very impressed by Minasi

[SonicMan46]

Just re-posting from the 'listening thread' trying to sort out some flute recordings and catalog numbers - Dave

     

Wonderful,  and beats Jed Wentz et al. (Brilliant) hands down....

Hi Que - Jed Wentz is a favorite performer for me, but I do not have the 2-CD set inserted above; however, listened this morning on Spotify and the performances do not have the 'vim & vigor' of his other recordings nor of the 3 in my collection, i.e. Kuijken & van Asperen (1993), Kuijken & Demeyere (2006), and Hazelzet et al (pics also above) - listening now to each performance; and all quite good (reviews attached for those interested), so no need for me to buy the Wentz, which is a duplicated program to the Kuijken & Demeyere.

But, I was curious about having all of this CPE Bach flute music and reviewed his List of Compositions, the reviews attached, and some of the booklet notes; seems that the 1993 vs. 2006 Kuijken performances are of different works (see my analysis below); except for 1 work, the Hazelzet one disc recording is the same as Kuijken & Demeyere but missing a disc - my mind is clearer and may help others make a selection or two?  Dave

[milk]

[Que]

Recent issue and looking good! 

[SonicMan46]

Recent issue and looking good! 

   

Hi Que - had to check my Google Docs database on CPE Bach (I keep the prolific Baroque guys and a few others whose works I own tabulated so I don't duplicate purchases) - quoted below are the 'Symphonies' in my collection from CPE - looks like I have those 'Hamburg String Symphonies' done by Oramo (inserted above - reviews attached for those interested) - looking forward to reviews on this newest addition to the competition!    Dave

P.S. it's an all string orchestra (except for his sister on harpsichord) but nothing in the booklet or in the reviews about period practices? 

Symphonies
Wq 174 (H649) C Major^
Wq 175 (H650) F Major^
Wq 178 (H653) E minor^
Wq 179 (H654) E Flat Major^
Wq 180 (H655) G Major^
Wq 181 (H656) F Major^
Wq 182:1-6 (H657-662) - Hamburg Symphonies+
Wq 183/1 (H663) D Major*
Wq 183/2 (H664) E Flat Major*
Wq 183/3 (H665) F Major*
Wq 183/4 (H666) G Major*

+Oramo-Ostrobothnian CO - Alba 374
*Bylsma-Leonhardt -Orch AE - VeritasX2 61794 2 4
^Zacharias-Orch Cham Lausanne - MDG 940 1824-6

[staxomega]

Has anyone heard the Peter Serkin set of the keyboard sonatas that came out a couple of years ago? This is pretty much impossible to sample. Someone did upload some live recordings he made around that time to Youtube and his technique was not secure to put it kindly.

[Mandryka]

From Christopher Hogwood's essay in his booklet for his recording of Probenstüke sonatas.


C.P.E. BACH Sonatas and Sonatinas from Essay on the True Art of playing Keyboard Instruments


When Charles Burney visited Hamburg in 1772, he already knew the compositions of Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach, but he had never before had a chance to hear Bach perform, and eagerly seized the opportunity of an invitation to dinner.

After dinner, ... I prevailed upon him to sit down again to a clavichord, and he played with little intermission, till near eleven o'clock at night. During this time, he grew so animated and possessed, that he not only played, but looked like one inspired. His eyes were fixed, his under hp fell, and drops of effervescence distilled from his countenance.

His performance to-day convinced me of what I had suggested before from his works; that he is not only one of the greatest composers that ever existed, for keyed instruments, but the best player in point of expression; for others, perhaps, have had as rapid execution: however, he possesses every style; though he chiefly confines himself to the expressive.

It was Bach's publications that spread his style throughout Europe, since his performances were restricted by his long period of employment as resident keyboard player to Frederick the Great in Berlin. His sonatas were aimed primarily at 'connoisseurs and amateurs' and his Essay, first published in two parts (1753 and 1762), contained the essence of his evangelistic zeal for a sensitive, logical and easily comprehended keyboard method. Modest as he was, even he noticed that 'since its appearance, teaching and playing have improved', and later generations were more complimentary. Haydn remarked: 'Everything that I know I learnt from Emmanuel', Beethoven instructed Czerny to bring a copy to his first lesson, and Mozart, with typical bravura, declared: 'he is the father, we are the children. Those of us who do anything right, learned it from him.'

The musical examples that were issued with Part One in 1753 (18 Probestiicke in sechs Sonaten), together with the set of Sonatas with varied Reprises (1760), present Bach at his most painstakingly didactic.

In notating the Lessons, I have scored everything that seemed necessary; and I have played them many times with great care so that not even the smallest detail would escape me .... Because I wanted to publish a complete work illustrative of fingering in all keys, the use of embellishments, and all varieties of expression, I could not prevent an increase in the difficulty of the Lessons.

Evidently with the success of the Essay and Probestiicke a demand for additional graded pieces arose, and VI Sonatina nuove in Bach's newest style were added to the third edition of 1787.


The eighteen pieces of the first collection of Sonatas are closely related to Bach's instructions in Part One of his Essay, with every detail of fingering carefully indicated in the engraved score. His instructions on embellishments (the most detailed and complex section of the entire Essay) discuss many variations and subtleties which are nowhere employed in the Probestacke, but Bach was following what he considered to be the good example of the French who always notated their decorations with painstaking accuracy. A prodigal use of embellishments was to be avoided; the Essay and the Lessons aimed to teach not only how to interpret the abbreviations but also how to select the right context for each ornament. The Probestiicke are Bach's demonstration of moderation as well as correct choice: 'Regard them as spices which may ruin the best dish'.

In the section on performance Bach refers explicitly to several of the Lessons. He does not dispute the need for 'finger velocity' (see Sonatas II and VI), but warns that technical tricks may simply 'stun the mind without moving it'. Variety in dynamics, speed, articulation must always be controlled by the true content of the composition; the player will only be able to 'rouse and still the passions' by realizing the Affikt of the piece, and, as Burney noticed, the keyboard instrument most capable of these bold changes of sentiment was the clavichord. Apart from its softer tone, the good clavichord shares all the advantages of the pianoforte, plus the effects of vibrato and portato noted by Burney, which (Bach explains) 'I produce by means of added pressure after each stroke'. This device, specific to the clavichord, is called for in several movements of the Sonatas, and it, together with the elaborate and extreme dynamic markings indicates Bach's preferred instrument.

'He possesses every style' claimed Burney, and Reichardt pointed out that `Bach's manner of playing would not have been devised at all without the clavichord and he devised it only for the clavichord'. No greater compliment could be paid to his power to stir the emotions via so modest an instrument than the fact that his admirer, the poet Heinrich Wilhelm von Gestemberg, felt driven to publish the final Fantasia with a double text superimposed; one was the dying speech of Socrates, the other was Hamlet's soliloquy 'To be, or not to be'. Christopher Hogwood

[Mandryka]

Spanyi on the Probestücke sonatas

In my opinion it is no exaggeration to say that C.P.E. Bach's eighteen Probestücke, grouped as six sonatas and published as an appendix to his epoch-making keyboard treatise Versuch über die wahre Art das Clavier zu spielen, are among the most substantial works in the composer's entire keyboard oeuvre. Although Bach's keyboard music shows an amazingly constant high quality it also has some extraordinary high points. I am prepared not only to rank the set of the Probestücke among these, but also to propose it as a pinnacle in the entire literature for the keyboard.

C.P.E. Bach's publications with pedagogical aims show that he never found composing for less skilled or amateur players or even beginners a burden but rather a special challenge, resulting (as in the case of some other brilliant key-board educators such as Johann Sebastian Bach or Bela Bart6k) in excellent pieces. But even among C. R E. Bach's pedagogical works the Probestücke hold a special place. In this publication Bach collected his most precious ideas, as if to demonstrate his finest skills as composer and pedagogue as well as his ideas about the aesthetics of keyboard playing: an hour's worth of music of pure beauty, full of the most varied and sparkling ideas. In most cases I have even refrained from adding embellishments to the repeats in binary movements in order to pre-sent these musical diamonds in their original, unadulterated, marvellous glow.

Even technical restrictions did not discourage Bach: the Probestücke are composed so that they could be played on less modern instruments of the time, with a keyboard range of only four octaves. We also know, from the text part of the Versuch, that Bach did not rule out the performance of the pieces on the harpsichord or other keyboard instruments although his preferred instrument was the clavichord. The Probestücke also contain some indications of Bebung, an effect similar to vibrato on string instruments and only possible to achieve on the clavichord among the keyboard instruments. At the time of composition of the Probestücke, more modern clavichords were being built with a five-octave compass. As the Versuch as well as the Probestücke remained relevant until the end of the eighteenth century (or even longer), I believe that the choice of a clavichord modelled on an instrument of the late eighteenth century is one of the possible historically correct choices. After much experimenting, my conclusion is that my large, late-Saxonian clavichord is a very convincing instrument for the Probestücke. Despite of its powerful and robust sound, the most delicate effects required by these compositions can be achieved on it. This is, however, only one of the numerous types of clavichord and keyboard instrument in general on which this music may have been performed in its time.

[atardecer]

Some interesting thoughts on some of CPE Bach's keyboard works here. It seems his music is going through a kind of resurgence and re-evaluation.

I wonder what Spanyi or Hogwood would think about some of Charles Rosen's thoughts on the music of CPE Bach:

"C.P.E. Bach's horizon is wider harmonically, but his practice is incoherent: he is more interested in local effects- he delights in harmonic shock, as did Haydn; but Haydn knew how to weld his effects together, and his most disparate harmonies are not only reconciled but even explained by what follows as well as implied by what precedes."

"C.P.E. Bach's grandeur lacks breadth just as his passion lacked wit."

-Charles Rosen



 

[Mandryka]

"C.P.E. Bach's horizon is wider harmonically, but his practice is incoherent: he is more interested in local effects- he delights in harmonic shock, as did Haydn; but Haydn knew how to weld his effects together, and his most disparate harmonies are not only reconciled but even explained by what follows as well as implied by what precedes."

Isn't this part of the nature of the genre of fantasia? If not, what is a fantasia exactly?

[atardecer]

Isn't this part of the nature of the genre of fantasia? If not, what is a fantasia exactly?

I think so. I think he was referring to the works in sonata form. As far as I know the primary reason C.P.E. is considered an important composer is his contributions to sonata form. Similarly you referred to the works as Probestücke sonatas. Perhaps these works you are referring to are closer to being fantasias, I'm not sure. Actually one of the things Rosen points out is that before sonata form was codified by the romantics, there was actually no standard form. It just referred to something composers were doing at a given time and it changed over time.

As far as C.P.E. I don't necessarily agree with Rosen, and I suspect Haydn's innovations were building on the work of C.P.E., so in that sense I'm not sure how fair the criticism is. I find the claim by Spanyi that these C.P.E. sonatas are a 'pinnacle in the entire literature for the keyboard' an interesting one. I'm not familiar enough with the music to have a position on that. 

[Mandryka]

Well I just don't think what he says is true of the sonatas, though there are obviously a lot of them and I haven't checked each one. Put it like this I'm listening to the second movement of the 6th Wurttemberg Sonata as I'm typing this, and it doesn't strike me as being full of random shocks - harmonic or rhythmic or otherwise. Quite complex music though, I'd say.

But there may well be some music which does fit what Rosen says - possibly some of the stuff from Sonaten für Kenner und Liebhaber. Again, it may be a style thing rather than a fault - empfindsamer style.

By the way, the Probestücke sonatas include one magnificent fantasy movement - the last movement of the 6th. That's the one that Hogwood says was published with Socrates's Death Speech and Hamlet's To be or not to be at the top of the page.  I don't know how it compares to fantasia pieces by Haydn but I can say this: that CPE Bach seems to me to have nothing to blush about when compared to Mozart's famous K475.