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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: mc ukrneal on December 18, 2014, 06:18:07 PM

Title: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 18, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
I have been looking into Biber's music more recently and realized there is no thread about him. Well, now we have one! :)

The only disc I have at the moment is this one (and it's a beauty) and another in the Freiburger Barockorchester box:
[asin]B00006RGMP[/asin]

Other discs I was looking at and would like to hear what you think:
[asin]B00004VMZA[/asin]
[asin]B00E59ZRS2[/asin]

But I'd love to hear more about what you like that you have heard and maybe a little bit about why you like him if you are so inclined to share.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: kishnevi on December 18, 2014, 06:38:25 PM
Todd is no doubt the inhouse expert on the Mystery Sonatas.
I think this is the most reissue of my favorite Biber disc
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61HcqXsa3xL.jpg)
These are also good although I am not so keen on them.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yKoDmNz8L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GInot-vKL.jpg)

I have the two Savall CDs and one of the Goebel CDs (Missa Salisburgensis).  My liking of them is more an outcome of my liking for the performers than for the music itself.  The solo violin/chamber music is what first got him on my radar.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Todd on December 18, 2014, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on December 18, 2014, 06:18:07 PMOther discs I was looking at and would like to hear what you think:
[asin]B00004VMZA[/asin]
[asin]B00E59ZRS2[/asin]



Buy both without delay.  The Savall is predictably very fine, and the Biber box has the glorious Missa Salisburgensis and the Mass In B à 6.  The Mystery Sonatas in that set are very good, but better are available (or rather other sets are more to my taste).  Biber was a real find for me.  His music is wildly inventive, sometimes over the top, but always compelling and entertaining, and usually incredibly lively.  A dull composer he is not.

Some other high grade recordings to ponder, with the caveat that with the Mystery Sonatas it is easy to collect many sets:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410VSA9ZKTL.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E7Z5pa4bL._SS425.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tRN1jGfLL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: amw on December 18, 2014, 07:11:43 PM
Quote from: Todd on December 18, 2014, 06:40:20 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E7Z5pa4bL._SS425.jpg)

You'll want more than one version of the Mystery Sonatas. But if you only end up with one, this is my pick. (I've heard about 12 others so far, though not all complete.)

I'll have more to say about Biber at some point.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Pat B on December 18, 2014, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: amw on December 18, 2014, 07:11:43 PM
You'll want more than one version of the Mystery Sonatas. But if you only end up with one, this is my pick.

Oh. I've been hoping to avoid adding this to the list of pieces I collect multiple versions of -- my CDCDCD is bad enough as it is. I have only heard one, Holloway, which is one of my tip-top favorite recordings.

The only other Biber I have is Savall's Battalia-Requiem disc, plus Battalia by Il Giardino Armonico (I didn't need a second Battalia but it was in a box -- I prefer Savall BTW). I added the Romanesca set to my wishlist.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: The new erato on December 18, 2014, 11:26:09 PM
Good advice her. You also need these:

[asin]B00008PW54[/asin]

which (there are 2 discs) have been available i various versions and packagings. Hopefully Naive will reissue them. Superb recordings of some very interesting and not widely recorded works.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Jo498 on December 19, 2014, 12:03:22 AM
The Archiv box is great value (I have all but disc 2 as single issues). Often these were more or less the "pioneering recordings" in "modern HIP", that is, there are a few older recordings for most pieces (like Melkus or Collegium aureum), but these seem to be superseded by Goebel. Biber and Telemann were among the best things Goebel did and clearly dear to him. Apart from the rosary sonatas there are not too many alternatives and these (mostly) 80s recordings hold up extremely well, I think.

(I have not kept up with the two dozen Rosary recordings since then, although I have two or three more)

Manze et al is also great in the lesser known sonatas. You still need the "Battaglia" and the "Pauernkirchfahrt". They might have been on a mixed Musica Antiqua disc not included in the box. There are 60s recordings by Harnoncourt (probably superseded) and for the battaglia Giardino Armonico (with the animal sounds "representativa" and Locke), not sure about the peasant's pilgrimage. Letzbor and Duftschmid (Gambist) have done a lot of "Austrian Baroque" on several labels, so you get Biber and also some other composers from late 17th century Austria (Their emperor Leopold himself was a passable composer).

Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: amw on December 19, 2014, 12:29:01 AM
Quote from: Pat B on December 18, 2014, 10:34:21 PM
Oh. I've been hoping to avoid adding this to the list of pieces I collect multiple versions of -- my CDCDCD is bad enough as it is. I have only heard one, Holloway, which is one of my tip-top favorite recordings.
Am sorry to report that in my non-blind but relatively unbiased traversal of various Rosary Sonatas on Qobuz & Spotify I found Sepec to beat the pants off Holloway. Also must report very good (& very contrasting) versions by Eduard Melkus, Gunar Letzbor and Monica Huggett. I still haven't listened to all of Alice Piérot's incidentally, that's on the agenda at some point.

(Part of the 'problem' is that there are many interpretations possible: what violins to use, how large the continuo section should be, how it should be deployed etc., plus: how programmatic one's interpretation should be, in addition to the usual problems of tempo, dynamics, and character.)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: JCBuckley on December 19, 2014, 05:17:36 AM
Quote from: The new erato on December 18, 2014, 11:26:09 PM
Good advice her. You also need these:

[asin]B00008PW54[/asin]



This would be one of my top Biber recommendations too.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 19, 2014, 07:53:39 AM
Wow! Some very interesting recommendations - will be fun to look through them.

Quote from: amw on December 19, 2014, 12:29:01 AM
(Part of the 'problem' is that there are many interpretations possible: what violins to use, how large the continuo section should be, how it should be deployed etc., plus: how programmatic one's interpretation should be, in addition to the usual problems of tempo, dynamics, and character.)
One of the things I like about the Savall disc I posted is that it is bursting with energy.There are different ways to get the impact he does, so will be interesting to see what influences me more as I explore.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Todd on December 19, 2014, 08:11:13 AM
Quote from: amw on December 19, 2014, 12:29:01 AMAm sorry to report that in my non-blind but relatively unbiased traversal of various Rosary Sonatas on Qobuz & Spotify I found Sepec to beat the pants off Holloway. Also must report very good (& very contrasting) versions by Eduard Melkus, Gunar Letzbor and Monica Huggett. I still haven't listened to all of Alice Piérot's incidentally, that's on the agenda at some point.




Sepec and Pierot both grab Holloway by the scruff of the neck, toss him around mercilessly, then throw him to the ground and stomp his guts out.  Huggett, too.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: amw on December 19, 2014, 12:29:01 AM
Am sorry to report that in my non-blind but relatively unbiased traversal of various Rosary Sonatas on Qobuz & Spotify I found Sepec to beat the pants off Holloway. Also must report very good (& very contrasting) versions by Eduard Melkus, Gunar Letzbor and Monica Huggett.

No apology necessary. Sepec is a fantastic violinist -- I have his Schumann with Staier, and Arcanto Quartet's Bartók disc. I sampled his Mystery Sonatas and can hear why you might prefer it, but not convinced that I would (especially at $40 in physical form). Maybe I'll give it a listen if I take the streaming plunge.

With Holloway there is a sense of serenity (in both his playing and the cathedral acoustic) which is surely not the only way to do it, but to me it is, well, sacred. I wonder if the things I like about it are the things that you don't.

I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about Holloway's accompanied Bach in a similar style.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Wakefield on December 19, 2014, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: Pat B on December 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
With Holloway there is a sense of serenity (in both his playing and the cathedral acoustic) which is surely not the only way to do it, but to me it is, well, sacred. I wonder if the things I like about it are the things that you don't.

I concur.

I like his Rosary Sonatas (very much, indeed) for the same reasons that you point out.

His ECM disk, with his late wife and Mortensen, is fantastic, too.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Ken B on December 19, 2014, 06:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gordo on December 19, 2014, 06:06:57 PM
I concur.

I like his Rosary Sonatas (very much, indeed) for the same reasons that you point out.

Ditto, though I like Manze a bit more I think.
More than most music this repays multiple recordings, as several have noted above. The wrong thread to battle CDCDCD on ...
Title: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber: violin sonatas
Post by: André on February 27, 2017, 03:51:19 PM
Bumping up this thread, last post being over 2 years old, and having seen at least two dozen recommendations/purchases of the Rosary (aka "Mystery") sonatas in the purchases and WAYLN threads.

I own 3 versions of the 'Rosary' (Goebel, Manze and Reiter) and a couple of discs of other violin works by Biber. I keep salivating at every comment and recommendation of the 'Rosary' that crop up here and there. They all seem to have some captivating, unique musical insight. Every time I hear one of them I marvel at the inventiveness and sheer gorgeousness of the writing (makes me think of H. Bosch's painting The Garden of Delights)

(http://www.artbible.info/images/tuinderlusten_midden_grt.jpg)

There is simply too much that captures the ear/eye...


Some very early versions (Suzanne Lautenbacher, Eduard Melkus) still seem to command affection, but so much water has flowed under the bridge since the 1960s...

Just as - but quite differently from - Bach's Sonatas and Partitas, Biber's works seem to invite and thrive on all kinds of variants in the playing style and 'accompanimento' : sometimes they sound like violin sonatas with a discreet bass accompaniment, other times they sound like trio sonatas, almost concertante like works.

I would welcome any and all recommendations of other versions and especially explanations on why and how this or that version differs and adds to the global picture of what is quickly becoming the nec plus ultra of baroque violin works.
Title: Re: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber: violin sonatas
Post by: Todd on February 27, 2017, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: André on February 27, 2017, 03:51:19 PMI would welcome any and all recommendations of other versions and especially explanations on why and how this or that version differs and adds to the global picture of what is quickly becoming the nec plus ultra of baroque violin works.


To the prior trio of Sepec, Pierot, and Hugget I mentioned a couple years ago, I would add Ariadne Daskalakis' very robust and energetic reading, and at the opposite end of the spectrum, Helene Schmitt's very laid back recording in breathtakingly good sound.  Honorable mention goes to the Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel duo recording with violin and church organ only, which provides a rather different take and sound.  Alas, it's spread across three short discs.  I've got Lina Tur Bonet's set in the to-hear queue. 
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: amw on February 27, 2017, 06:33:59 PM
Mystery Sonatas blind comparison is still a potential option!

Agree w/ Sepec, Huggett, Daskalakis (don't know the others yet) as well as Evan Johnson, whom I've otherwise never heard of, and who is initially noticeable for unusual tempo choices but manages to convince with them. More on the Daskalakis end of energetic vs laid back, but with plenty of seriousness as well, and a very spacious Passacaglia that I quite like. And Siirka-Liisa Kaakiinen-Piilch or however it's spelled, much more strait-laced and possibly too serious but very reverential and effective. (Sort of like a good version of John Holloway >.>)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: André on February 28, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
Thanks for those recommendations. I'll try to sample them to get a fee of the concept and sound world.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 28, 2017, 10:11:57 AM
Quote from: amw on February 27, 2017, 06:33:59 PM
Mystery Sonatas blind comparison is still a potential option!

Agree w/ Sepec, Huggett, Daskalakis (don't know the others yet) as well as Evan Johnson, whom I've otherwise never heard of, and who is initially noticeable for unusual tempo choices but manages to convince with them. More on the Daskalakis end of energetic vs laid back, but with plenty of seriousness as well, and a very spacious Passacaglia that I quite like. And Siirka-Liisa Kaakiinen-Piilch or however it's spelled, much more strait-laced and possibly too serious but very reverential and effective. (Sort of like a good version of John Holloway >.>)
Would love this personally as I have only one version, and  that one came in a set. So I'd like to compare a few to see what I like. Totally selfish reasons for doing this one!  :o
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: king ubu on February 28, 2017, 01:16:58 PM
What about Florence Malgoire's recording?

[asin]B00BY6JWY4[/asin]
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: André on March 01, 2017, 12:06:25 PM
I can't find the Malgoire set on Amazon.ca or UK   :(


Amazon.com's shipping charges are outrageous, so s...w them !

But while researching, I found this instead:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515HgH1q95L.jpg)

3.44$ for 2 discs. My search was not in vain, then !  :)


Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: king ubu on March 01, 2017, 09:53:11 PM
Quote from: André on March 01, 2017, 12:06:25 PM
I can't find the Malgoire set on Amazon.ca or UK   :(

I have ordered it last night ... also the Sepec and the Piérot   ;D
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 09:02:39 PM
https://escholarship.org/content/qt9qc6h9vq/qt9qc6h9vq.pdf

This Ph.D thesis on violin sonatas has a chapter on the rosary sonatas starting at page 108. I thought it was the best thing I've ever read on the mystery sonatas.
Title: Re: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber: violin sonatas
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2019, 04:47:27 AM
Quote from: Todd on February 27, 2017, 06:10:18 PM

Honorable mention goes to the Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel duo recording with violin and church organ only, which provides a rather different take and sound. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81t4hmOOrKL._SY355_.jpg)

I'm very much enjoying the restraint and intimacy of Knebel and Schumann, and the ambience of the recording,  thanks for mentioning it. Just as I've found with the Bach violin sonatas, an organ may well be a a contrapuntally interesting partner for the violinist. And if these sonatas had a church function (who knows?) it may well have been what Biber was thinking of. What's in the booklet? Do the performers say anything about what led them to this experiment, and what their journey was like? Is there an essay by a reputable academic?  I don't have access to it anywhere.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71XiUbTeOyL._SX355_.jpg)

Clearly Walter Reiter knows how to play a violin.  He's thought hard about the expressive requirements of the music, and he can convey them. The sound is rather good, you can hear resonances for example. However I very negative reaction to it because I was all the time aware of how hard Reiter was working to make me feel. I felt like I was being coaxed like you might coax the dog from behind the sofa -- or, this is more like it, being hectored at, bullied almost. Got the word now -- manipulated. I don't mind if these guys manipulate me with their siren song, but I want them to take me so gently by the arm and lead me that I feel as though I'm going with them on the trip naturally, not being cajoled into the journey.

It is clearly a very good bit of violin playing. And it is very much his show, the others are in a supporting role at best.

I may feel differently tomorrow.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: North Star on January 02, 2019, 10:38:00 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 02, 2019, 04:47:27 AM
I'm very much enjoying the restraint and intimacy of Knebel and Schumann, and the ambience of the recording,  thanks for mentioning it. Just as I've found with the Bach violin sonatas, an organ may well be a a contrapuntally interesting partner for the violinist. And if these sonatas had a church function (who knows?) it may well have been what Biber was thinking of. What's in the booklet? Do the performers say anything about what led them to this experiment, and what their journey was like? Is there an essay by a reputable academic?  I don't have access to it anywhere.
Have you heard Rachel Podger's recording?  She has three musicians accompanying her, though the ensemble size & instruments vary between pieces, theorbo/archlute, harpsichord/organ, and cello/gamba.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2019, 11:46:00 AM
I have dipped into Podger without so far having any thoughts.

In that doctorate thesis I gave the link to, Lindsey Darlene Strand-Polyak says

QuoteWe can surmise that the Rosary Sonatas would not have been played in a liturgical setting, because their inclusion of dance movements would have made them inappropriate for public church
performance.

This sacred cantata (BWV 122) seems to start with a little dance

https://www.youtube.com/v/-PKrAM0-PMg

So what am I missing? Is the cantata not "liturgical"? Is it not a minuet at the start? Were the conventions in Biber's church different in this respect from Bach's? Or is Lindsey Darlene Strand-Polyak's argument a bad one?
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Mandryka on January 03, 2019, 05:38:02 AM
(http://www.avie-records.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/AV0038-250x250.jpg)

Can someone please tell me where the readings are taken from in this recording? All I can find on their website is

Quote from: someone at http://www.avie-records.com/releases/the-rosary-sonatas/Avie's version is unique for its inclusion of the spoken texts which would have been read during Rosary devotions in the 1670s, here eloquently delivered by well-known television and stage actor Timothy West.


When I type bits of the text into google, nothing comes up.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 07, 2019, 09:54:05 AM
At the moment, I'm going through my 12+ CDs of Biber's music - over the last couple of days, I listened to the 3 versions of the Mystery Sonatas in my collection and decided to keep all sets (posted the quote below yesterday in the 'listening thread') - for those interested, reviews are attached - will continue in the next post.  Dave :)

QuoteFor some reason despite Biber's dates, he ended up in my 'Medieval-Renaissance Section' - starting out w/ the 3 recordings below:

Biber, Heinrich (1644-1704) - Mystery (Rosary) Sonatas w/ the three different violinists on the cover art - a short bio quoted below - I listened to the first disc of these double CD sets planning to 'cull out' one of these recordings, but all are excellent - the Lautenbacher performances are from the early 1960s but have been remastered beautifully - since she made these 'early revival' recordings, there have been an abundance of more and most seem to receive excellent reviews - I have more Biber, so looking forward to further listening - published reviews attached.  Dave :)

QuoteHeinrich Ignaz Franz Biber (1644-1704) was a Bohemian-Austrian composer and violinist. Born in the Bohemian town of Wartenberg, Biber illegally left his Kremsier employer, Prince-Bishop Carl Liechtenstein-Kastelkorn, and settled in Salzburg. He remained there for the rest of his life, publishing much of his music but apparently seldom, if ever, giving concert tours. Biber was one of the most important composers for the violin in the history of the instrument. His technique allowed him to easily reach the 6th and 7th positions, employ multiple stops in intricate polyphonic passages, and explore the various possibilities of scordatura tuning. He also wrote one of the earliest known pieces for solo violin, the monumental passacaglia of the Mystery Sonatas. During Biber's lifetime, his music was known and imitated throughout Europe. In the late 18th century he was named the best violin composer of the 17th century by music historian Charles Burney. In the late 20th century Biber's music, especially the Mystery Sonatas, enjoyed a renaissance. Today, it is widely performed and recorded. (SOURCE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Ignaz_Franz_Biber))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hAlAnEkcL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rGHfeJG-L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+ayOPE6yL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 07, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
Well, this morning I listened to the only discs owned of Biber's vocal/sacred works, i.e. Missa Christi resurgentis written in 1673-74 and first performed in Salzburg and the Requiem - now onto my other discs which are violin & chamber ensemble music - not sure 'how much' overlap I own, but this WEBSITE (https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Heinrich_Ignaz_Franz_von_Biber) has a listed classification using the letter 'C' and numbers ('C' either stands for Catalog or Eric Thomas Chafe).

The first recordings up are the bottom 2 pics, i.e. John Holloway on one disc and Manze/Romanesca on 2 discs; using the link, Manze performs "C 138–145, Sonatæ violino solo, 8 sonatas (Nuremberg, 1681)" plus adds "C 146, Sonata violino solo representativa (Representatio Avium), circa 1669", "C 106, Pastorella" and "Passacaglia for solo violin" from the Rosary Sonatas; while Holloway plays 4 of the same sonatas plus 2 'unpublished' ones - both performances are excellent and complementary.

Believe that I'll just post my Biber comments here correlating w/ the link given.  Dave :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/176/MI0001176470.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61SxNDh4mPL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81t7EQD0noL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4123ATY7HRL.jpg)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: André on March 08, 2019, 06:04:02 AM
I like the Holloway disc. It is...different  :).
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 08, 2019, 07:13:45 AM
Quote from: André on March 08, 2019, 06:04:02 AM
I like the Holloway disc. It is...different  :).

Hi André - like both Holloway & Romanesca, the 2-disc latter set has all of the sonatas plus "C 146, Sonata violino solo representativa (Representatio Avium)" w/ the funny animal imitations - both go well together.  Dave :)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 08, 2019, 07:33:35 AM
Just to finish off my Biber collection:

C 78–89, Fidicinium sacro-profanum, 1–2vn, 2va, bc w/ David Plantier & Les Plaisirs du Parnasse
C 62–68, Harmonia articiciosa-ariosa: diversi mode accordata, 1–2vn, va, 2 viola d'amore, vlne, bc w/ Goebel & Musica Antique Köln (2-disc set)
C 114–137, Sonatæ, tam aris, quam aulis servientes, 2, 5–8 instruments w/ the Parley of Instruments, Roy Goodman & Peter Holman

Now - will check Amazon to see what else may be available - plenty of compositions remain in that link given previously - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51jbeHZNBiL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Z4oBahjzL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DSp8V8BeL.jpg)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: San Antone on March 08, 2019, 09:16:51 AM
I've been listening to these recordings of the Rosenkranzsonaten.  There are three volumes.

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/870/MI0003870318.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel (HIP performances with Baroque violin)

Each CD was done in a different church with a different organ.  I think they are very good, although the acoustic gives the violin a distant sound.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 08, 2019, 09:44:11 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 07, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81t7EQD0noL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4123ATY7HRL.jpg)

the Violin Sonata No. 3 is one of my favorite pieces of classical music! I cherish both of these performances.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 08, 2019, 10:34:49 AM
Hi San Antone & Greg - glad to see the Biber thread getting some activity - I decided to add the Goebel recording below -  "C 69–74, Mensa sonora, seu Musica instrumentalis, vn, 2va, vlne, bc (Salzburg, 1680)" (used copy for $5 from 'across the pond').  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71sHbeHfKLL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: André on March 08, 2019, 12:45:55 PM
Hi Dave ! Expect a good ear cleaning from Goebel's version  :D.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 08, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: André on March 08, 2019, 12:45:55 PM
Hi Dave ! Expect a good ear cleaning from Goebel's version  :D.

André - LOL!  :laugh:  I thought this is Biber's version of 'Tafelmusik', as suggested by the attached review, BUT that is one of my favorite groups so will enjoy, plus Goebel breaks up the movements w/ "Any listeners who have been lulled into inattenti veness, will be jarred back to consciousness by the Sonata representativa, which Goebel has used to divide the two groups of Mensa sonora sonatas. The Sonata representativa is a most amusing, programmatic diversion." (from the attachment).  SO, I expect to hear some animal sounds on violin in the middle of this recording (love the cat!) - Dave :)
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: San Antone on March 08, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
Quote from: San Antone on March 08, 2019, 09:16:51 AM
I've been listening to these recordings of the Rosenkranzsonaten.  There are three volumes.

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Anne Schumann and Sebastian Knebel (HIP performances with Baroque violin)

Each CD was done in a different church with a different organ.  I think they are very good, although the acoustic gives the violin a distant sound.

After more extensive listening I cannot recommend these recordings.  The recorded sound of the violin is just too distant, and there appear to be significant intonation issues.  I am not sure if those are the result of the scordatura and/or issues with her playing, or something else.  But I will not listen to these recordings any more.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 19, 2019, 08:34:35 PM
Just finished listening to the Violin Sonata 3 in F major performed by Gunar Letzbor and  Ars Antiqua Austria.
It's amazing. Gunar truly infuses this sonata with personal, and artistic touches, utilizing freedom to the tempi, dynamics and phrasing unlike any other performance I've heard before. It's a beautiful rendition, and with a perfectly balanced Ars Antiqua Austria to back Gunar up.
This is my first time hearing this performance, and it rivals the others I've heard.

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Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Mandryka on March 19, 2019, 10:01:51 PM
Quote from: San Antone on March 08, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
.  But I will not listen to these recordings any more.

You sound like Queen Elizabeth in Blackadder.


There's just so much that's revealing and unique about these searching performances, I think they are a very valuable edition in music which on record is, I think, often treated in a shallow way. Have you tried turning up the volume? That did the trick for me. As far as intonation is concerned, I hear scrunchy harmonies and surprising dissonances, I just assumed that it was by design, anyway I'm pretty tone deaf.
Title: Re: The name is Biber: Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
Post by: Mandryka on August 13, 2019, 10:06:24 AM
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/dfree/production/albums/covers/37950-huge.jpg?1320867792)


I'm starting to explore Evan Johnson's extrovert and rather fun recording of the Rosary sonatas, this comment about violin tuning caught my attention. We've discussed "well temperament" before, I'm not sure what it is really, some form of Kimberger system?

QuoteTemperaments & Tunings

For this recording, we chose two temperaments or tuning systems, both of which Biber might have used in Salz-burg. One is a well temperament, which permits playing in any key, but in which each key has a different color. Usually, the keys with fewer accidentals sound mellower, and those with more accidentals sound brighter. The other is a mean-tone termperament, in which the usable keys all have the same color, but some keys sound too out of tune to use.

In the first five "joyful" sonatas, well temperament enhances the excited or happy feelings because of the active sound of the frequent A and E major triads. The major thirds are quite wide and produce rapid beat frequencies. In Sonata III (Birth of Christ), the very stri-dent F sharp major dominant chord con-tributes to the strange feeling of pain. In contrast, Sonatas XI, XII, and XV (of the "glorious" group) sound more glowing and relaxed. The major third in the C ma-jor triad is beatless, and in the G major tri-ad almost so. These beatless thirds evoke the sound of trumpets in Sonata XII.

Our well temperament could have worked nicely for the "sorrowful" sona-tas also, but beats are more intrusive in an organ's denser sound than on a harpsi-chord, and a "fifth-comma" mean-tone temperament with close to pure major thirds seemed a good alternative. In this temperament, all the minor triads, which still beat a lot, contrast with all the major triads, which beat much less. This mean-tone temperament also provided an ex-pressive "wolf tone" (out of tune) effect for the B major chord in Sonata IX.


And this note showing their seriousness about instruments, which in my experience can pay dividends


QuoteInstruments Played In This Recording

We matched the tone qualities of each of the five violins to the color and charac-ter of each sonata. Before playing each  sonata, William L. Monical, of New York, adjusted the soundposts, so that each scordatura tuning would reinforce the character of its sonata. I am indebted to him for his advice and expertise in provid-ing these sound adjustments, as well as for loaning three of the violins used in this recording. I am also very grateful to Wil-liams College for the use of the Eberle violin.


Strings for the violins (pure gut, ex-cept for low G, Ab, and A, which are sil-ver-covered gut) were made by Damian Dlugolecki, of New York, whose extra help I very much appreciate. The violin bow, made by Stephen Marvin, of Toron-to, in 1982, is a copy of an early eighteenth century French bow.

The cello is an anonymous English instrument, ca. 1840, converted to ba-roque condition. The harpsichord is a Zuckerman copy of an early eighteenth century French double manual instrument, built by Louis Patterson, of Elm-hurst, Illinois, in 1980. The positive or-gan, built in 1985 by Gerrit C. Klop, of Garderen, Holland, was provided by Edward Brewer, of Leonia, New Jersey.