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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Brewski on April 04, 2008, 09:07:38 AM

Title: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Brewski on April 04, 2008, 09:07:38 AM
I thought we had a thread on this highly original composer, but maybe not--a search didn't produce anything.  In any case, I just found this post (http://cookylamoo.com/boringlikeadrill/2008/04/please-mister-please.html) on a blog called Boring Like a Drill, an MP3 file of Pranam II (1973) by Ensemble 2E2M with Paul Méfano.

And here's a good introduction to Scelsi, Alex Ross' article (http://www.therestisnoise.com/2005/11/giacinto_scelsi.html) on his blog, from November 2005, which also describes the concert I attended with all five of his string quartets.

Scelsi was rather reclusive: below is the only known photograph of him.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Earthlight on April 05, 2008, 05:44:37 PM
I first heard Scelsi on an anthology, The Modern Italian Piano, 1939-1990, by Elisabeth Klein; she played his 3rd Sonata. I liked it the first time I heard it, and liked it more as I listened to it again. Tranquil, but melancholy, and not really like anything I ever heard. There aren't a lot of notes in it, and in a way it doesn't seem to go anywhere; it's like it creates a space and stays there for a while, changing its form in subtle ways without caring whether I noticed or not. (I did, but it took me a while.) (Is that cosmic enough for everybody?) I guess I'm not surprised that he was a bit of recluse.

I found some other music by him on eMusic, all with cryptic titles (for instance, suite no. 10, "Ka" and suite no. 9, "Ttai"); so far I haven't gotten into them that deeply, but for some reason or another I haven't been all that receptive to new-to-me music the last few months, so I'm sure their time will come.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lukeottevanger on April 06, 2008, 01:11:10 AM
There a a few pieces of really fantastic Scelsi...and many others, very attractive, but which it may be less important to hear. Among the former, though, I would put

Anahit - a ravishing work, and probably a masterpiece, IMO
Pranam - ditto, on a smaller scale
Uaxuctum - a kind of parallel to Varese's Ecuatorial, perhaps
and everything on the Arditti's Quartets disc (also contains Khoom and the String Trio)

Scelsi's musical-spiritual interests and mine (as a composer) coincide to a large extent; especially admirable for me is the way he developed a technique which was the precise mirror of his philosophical concerns. There are a few other composers who have managed this (including such disparate figures as Lou Harrison, Jonathan Harvey, Satie, Terry Riley(sometimes), Tippett and, yes, Janacek), and this small group of composers in their different ways mean quite a lot to me, even if they aren't necessarily my 'favourite' composers (though the last one listed is!)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on April 15, 2008, 06:42:10 AM
A fantastic Scelsi concert's coming up in Toronto next month: http://www.iictoronto.esteri.it/IIC_Toronto/webform/SchedaEvento.aspx?id=230&citta=Toronto

Being performed are: Lilitù, Hô, Litanie, Sauh I and II, CKCKC, Ogloudoglou, Yamaon, I presagi & Okanagon.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lukeottevanger on April 15, 2008, 07:23:29 AM
Well, yes - the Bot-Ba Suite for piano, for instance, makes this explicit (Bot-Ba being a form of the Tibetan name for the country). His interest in exploring the turbulenct areas around the implicit still centre of every note is very Buddhistic. But I have the feeling his first instincts, if asked the question 'to which religious system are you most inclined?' would have been towards Hinduism (and of course we have pieces like Pranam which emphasise that link). As far as they relate to the philosophical question concerned Scelsi, though, the two religions are very closely intertwined.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Brewski on April 16, 2008, 05:47:08 AM
James, do consider returning to him at a later date.  I first heard one of his pieces some 15 years ago, Canti di Capricorni (on Wergo, with soprano Michiko Hirayama), and after one listen thought about returning it--just couldn't stand it.  So I didn't have any interest in exploring further, until a live concert about 4-5 years ago with some of his chamber music, which was riveting (and performed for a packed house of 500 people).  But I can understand the reaction--he is an unusual, even extreme composer, who takes some getting used to (IMHO).

--Bruce
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lukeottevanger on April 16, 2008, 07:21:27 AM
Another composer who's music I was open to the experience but ended up being a 100% miss. I've heard the Arditti set, Anahit etc. The word monotonous instantly comes to mind. Barren stuff.

Blimey, aren't negative, mean-spirited posts like this or many of Rod's a real drain on ones mental resources? My own view - if you really hate a composer, no problem, but don't sling around the unnecessary insults just for the sake of sounding off. James did the same re. Feldman, IIRC. And the same is true for Scelsi as for Feldman - there are plenty of people for whom these composers are anything but monotonous*. Scelsi may ocassionally explore single tones, it is true, and he is almost always only concerned with a fairly narrow band of pitches, but he re-discovers what a tone really is, and explores it from the inside out - he makes notes live and burn, and carries them through trajectories which take on truly spiritual associations. An admirer of Stockhausen ought to find a lot in Scelsi that rings a bell - the similarities in technique (compare Stockhausen's large-scale extrapolations of his formulae to Scelsi's large-scale vectors) and sometimes in sound would be worth exploring, I think.

James repeatedly reminds us that he's a seeker after 'profundity'  ::), with a pretty narrow selection of worthwhile composers - not as narrow as Rod's, but similarly exclusive, and seemingly operating with a very narrow definition of what 'profundity' must entail. That's why he dismisses vast swathes of music, including music of undoubted profundity, but whose profundity is of a different sort - Cage, Feldman, Scelsi etc. That these composers imply things of great import and depth in their music is beyond doubt, but James, ever-suspicious of the non-Western and/or the non-canonic, finds the way into their world impassable. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the aloof but undeserved superiority complex and lack of humility implicit in the language with which he chooses to reject it. As I say, it's similar to Rod, and that is not a good thing.

*BTW if James has really listened to the Arditti set he'll have heard SQ no 1, which could not possibly be described using any such terminology, being a wonderful and highly active cross between Bartok, Messaien and Crawford Seeger, as well as, in its way, deeply Scelsian, and reaching an extremely exalted level akin to that of late Beethoven towards the end - it's one of the last pieces Scelsi wrote before the mental breakdown which led to his re-evaluating the fundamentals of music, and one senses in the calm polyphony of its later stages a kind of homage, deliberate or otherwise, to the Heiliger Dankegesang...
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: UB on October 04, 2008, 06:53:44 AM
It is a Scelsi morning for me here in Utah. I had listened to his string quartets 1 and 5 and was about to put on one of my favorite works, Suite #8 'Bot Ba,' when I thought I would see what, if anything, had been said about his music here.

I was pleased to find this thread that Bruce had started and was not surprised to see James' response to the music. I think it is great that everyone does not have the same taste in music. If we did, then all music would end up sounding the same. I am glad that I live at time when there is such a wide variety of classical music available and that much of it is recorded so I can explore and revisit music whenever I feel like it.

As Luke points out there is such a wide difference between Scelsi's 1st and 5th quartet, it is hard to believe they were written by the same composer. And perhaps they are not. Certainly after his breakdown Scelsi could be considered a different composer. Today both quartets worked for me and that is not always true of #5. There has been times when I could not sit still for short 6 plus minutes but today it seemed perfect.

I have always enjoyed his piano suites. I hope that someday the ones that appear to be lost will be found and recorded. #8 is to me an amazing survey of musical sounds for the piano. I particularly enjoy the 2nd and 5th sections.

Next up "Quarttro pezzi per Orchestra."
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Ugh! on October 04, 2008, 09:11:54 AM


Scelsi was rather reclusive: below is the only known photograph of him.


Don't believe the hype.
Public Enemy.

(http://www.archipel.org/archive/site07/article/img/ScelsiSani.jpg)

(http://www.classiquenews.com/images/scelsi_giacinto_concerts.jpg)

(http://www.hauptstadtkulturfonds.berlin.de/uploads/tx_nkhkf/Giacinto_20Scelsi_20al_20pianoforte.jpg)

Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Kullervo on October 04, 2008, 09:26:16 AM
Where did you find those?  :o
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Ugh! on October 04, 2008, 11:01:49 AM
Where did you find those?  :o

I've got this wonderful tool called Google.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Kullervo on October 04, 2008, 02:38:59 PM
I've got this wonderful tool called Google.

Thank you for your well-considered and informative answer.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on April 24, 2009, 12:25:27 PM
String Quartet No.1:

A forty min., 4 mvmt. SQ written in 1947. It appears to me that the post war breakdown that affected many composers of the generation (Villa Lobos, Malipiero, Chavez, Bloch, etc) came early to Scelsi. The hardening of language, the cragginess that these composers experienced in the 50s-60s, Scelsi seems to have manifested early on.

I think this SQ sounds like no other composer of the era. It is bleak, gritty, fairly unattractive, grey-ish, that starts in a sputtering manner as if Scelsi is wondering what left there is to say. Maybe my description isn't fair, though. The descrition is would say would be the "greyest" of the Rosenberg quartets plus Pettersson's early Concerto No.1 for violin and SQ, plus maybe a little Petrassian cragginess.

I think this SQ is a great example of the problems composers of the time were having in moving forward as all the idols of the past were falling. I'm not going to call this SQ "ugly", but I can hear the "sickness" of the stagnating musical climate of the time more than from any other composer. Scelsi really MUST have been depressed!!!

But, for me, the early Scelsi, early Pettersson comparison works (Pettersson abandoned chamber music after this-his piece sounds unlike his later style- I think it's a masterpiece), though I'm not looking to "get into it"...just a personal feeling.

So, it seems the "old style" Scelsi wrote one big chamber work before he "died" and was reborn. If he had continued in this vein I can see him becoming one of the sourest sounding composers ever. I do like to listen to this SQ every now and then, but I couldn't imagine opus after opus of this stuff...it would be depressing. But, as it stands, it is a great, solitary statement of the times...a composer struggling to find a voice in the midst of total cultural breakdown. Obviously, this path was "dead" to Scelsi. Sorry more composers didn't realize this.

I feel like I've been poopooing this SQ, but that's not what I'm saying. It's a fine SQ, just very unattractive, which, for me, is ok. Want to say more, but I'm stumped (the "other" Scelsi I love, but a completely different animal- others are doing a fine job).



Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: sul G on April 24, 2009, 12:42:10 PM
I find it anything but unattractive - to me, it's a work of often radiant beauty, and full of intruiging hints at techniques which remind me, coincidentally, of Ruth Crawford Seeger. Actually, I think this is one of the most attractive and easy-to-penetrate quartets of its time.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Guido on April 24, 2009, 01:05:26 PM
Glad this thread came up again, just listened to the magnificent Anahit and Pranam again, and now I'm hungry to hear the first quartet too (especially if you say it reminds you of Ruth Crawford Seeger!)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on April 25, 2009, 05:32:49 AM
The First quartet is indeed a fascinating work--not perhaps a mature essay but certainly that of a composer teeming with ideas. A similar case could be made for the roughly contemporaneous cantata La nascita del verbo, though perhaps it is an even more ambitious work.

Listening to the best of early Scelsi is a reminder that though so much was gained when he pared down his style, there was a lot lost too.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on April 25, 2009, 09:28:27 AM
"teeming with ideas"...yes.
I think what I really wanted to say
I find it anything but unattractive - to me, it's a work of often radiant beauty, and full of intruiging hints at techniques which remind me, coincidentally, of Ruth Crawford Seeger. Actually, I think this is one of the most attractive and easy-to-penetrate quartets of its time.
was that! We'll all listen over the weekend, and...synchronize your watches, gentlemen...
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: UB on June 09, 2009, 09:20:49 AM
I have spent a couple of delightful hours this evening - I am in South Africa - listening to the recording of Scelsi's Preludi played by Alessandra Ammara on a recent Arts Music SACD. All of the pieces were written during his first period and as anyone who is familiar with Scelsi's music might expect they are very approachable. I enjoyed all the music but the last series - #38-#50 seems to me to be the strongest. Anyone who enjoys his piano suites should enjoy this fine cd.

I just read Edward's comment about the gains and losses from Scelsi's because of his change in style, and fully agree.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Brewski on June 09, 2009, 09:25:11 AM
Cool!  Don't know that recording but would be inclined to get it soon.  (As an aside, where in South Africa?  I have been to Johannesburg and Cape Town, with a soft spot for the latter...)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: UB on June 10, 2009, 03:05:33 AM
Richards Bay, Bruce - East Coast about 150K North of Durban. About a 7 hours drive from Joburg and a couple of days from Cape Town.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on June 14, 2009, 06:25:50 AM
Hrmph. Believe I have not yet heard a note of Scelsi.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on July 07, 2009, 02:48:52 AM
Very interesting commentary, thanks.

String Quartet No.1:

A forty min., 4 mvmt. SQ written in 1947. It appears to me that the post war breakdown that affected many composers of the generation (Villa Lobos, Malipiero, Chavez, Bloch, etc) came early to Scelsi. The hardening of language, the cragginess that these composers experienced in the 50s-60s, Scelsi seems to have manifested early on.

I think this SQ sounds like no other composer of the era. It is bleak, gritty, fairly unattractive, grey-ish, that starts in a sputtering manner as if Scelsi is wondering what left there is to say. Maybe my description isn't fair, though. The descrition is would say would be the "greyest" of the Rosenberg quartets plus Pettersson's early Concerto No.1 for violin and SQ, plus maybe a little Petrassian cragginess.

I think this SQ is a great example of the problems composers of the time were having in moving forward as all the idols of the past were falling. I'm not going to call this SQ "ugly", but I can hear the "sickness" of the stagnating musical climate of the time more than from any other composer. Scelsi really MUST have been depressed!!!

But, for me, the early Scelsi, early Pettersson comparison works (Pettersson abandoned chamber music after this-his piece sounds unlike his later style- I think it's a masterpiece), though I'm not looking to "get into it"...just a personal feeling.

So, it seems the "old style" Scelsi wrote one big chamber work before he "died" and was reborn. If he had continued in this vein I can see him becoming one of the sourest sounding composers ever. I do like to listen to this SQ every now and then, but I couldn't imagine opus after opus of this stuff...it would be depressing. But, as it stands, it is a great, solitary statement of the times...a composer struggling to find a voice in the midst of total cultural breakdown. Obviously, this path was "dead" to Scelsi. Sorry more composers didn't realize this.

I feel like I've been poopooing this SQ, but that's not what I'm saying. It's a fine SQ, just very unattractive, which, for me, is ok. Want to say more, but I'm stumped (the "other" Scelsi I love, but a completely different animal- others are doing a fine job).
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on July 09, 2009, 09:12:09 AM
Hrmph. Believe I have not yet heard a note of Scelsi.

You do realize how funny that is, don't you? You did that on purpose...
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Brewski on July 29, 2009, 09:19:39 AM
Via Sequenza 21, here (http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/1573) is a link to a fine piece in La Folia about Scelsi.  The writer visited his home in Rome and took some interesting photos, including one of the interior. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Franco on March 13, 2010, 06:08:32 PM
Scelsi's musical-spiritual interests and mine (as a composer) coincide to a large extent; especially admirable for me is the way he developed a technique which was the precise mirror of his philosophical concerns. There are a few other composers who have managed this (including such disparate figures as Lou Harrison, Jonathan Harvey, Satie, Terry Riley(sometimes), Tippett and, yes, Janacek), and this small group of composers in their different ways mean quite a lot to me, even if they aren't necessarily my 'favourite' composers (though the last one listed is!)

I have been listening to a lot of Scelsi lately, but did not know about this aspect of his process.  I would add Messiaen to your list, as someone who considered translating his faith/theology into his method of composition of primary importance.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kentel on March 14, 2010, 02:35:18 AM
I have been listening to a lot of Scelsi lately, but did not know about this aspect of his process.  I would add Messiaen to your list, as someone who considered translating his faith/theology into his method of composition of primary importance.

Both composers were fascinated by traditional indian music; this is especially true for Messiaen who used the tâla rhythms everywhere. I would say that Messiaen was mostly fascinated by the very complex technic of the Indian music, while Scelsi was mostly interested into the spirituality and the mythology of India.

I think that Messiaen's spirituality was a very interesting mix of catholicism and animism (with all this stuff around the adoration of birds) which I find completely enthralling.

I think that both composers are among the most fascinating within the whole history of classical music. My favorites among Scelsi's works are :

- Chukrum (1963) for orchestra
- Anagamin (1965) for orchestra
- Elohim (1965) for orchestra
- Ohoi (1966) for orchestra

- Kya (1959) for clarinet & orchestra
- Anahit  (1965) for violin & orchestra

- String Quartet nr.3 (1963)
- String Quartet nr.4 (1964)
- String Quartet nr.5 (1985)

- Three Sacred Songs (1958) for choir & orchestra
- Aion (1961) for choir & orchestra
- Uaxuctum (1968) for choir & orchestra

--Gilles


Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kentel on March 14, 2010, 02:37:00 AM
I have been listening to a lot of Scelsi lately, but did not know about this aspect of his process.  I would add Messiaen to your list, as someone who considered translating his faith/theology into his method of composition of primary importance.

and Scriabin :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on March 14, 2010, 03:47:08 PM
Well, I now own two Scelsi discs, and I am just enraptured!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on March 14, 2010, 05:17:59 PM
Well, I now own two Scelsi discs, and I am just enraptured!

Get the 3 CD set on Accord with the complete orchestral music. I re-heard the 3 CDs this weekend (spurred by a discussion in another thread) and they continue to be absolutely fantastic.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on March 16, 2010, 07:53:12 PM
I was just listening to this disc of Natura Renovatour, Anagamin, Elohim, and Ohoi, all works for 10+ strings. It's on a very small label from Walleny.

When you think about this being written in the mid '60s, you know, it really flies into bold relief as to how from outside of time this music is. The first, and longest piece, made quite an impression whilst driving in the foggy rain!

Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on March 17, 2010, 04:42:26 AM
I was just listening to this disc of Natura Renovatour, Anagamin, Elohim, and Ohoi, all works for 10+ strings. It's on a very small label from Walleny.

When you think about this being written in the mid '60s, you know, it really flies into bold relief as to how from outside of time this music is. The first, and longest piece, made quite an impression whilst driving in the foggy rain!

Yeah, when I heard Elohim in concert in the mid-90s I was absolutely mesmerized... The combination of a string quartet on stage accompanied by tape (instead of the amplified strings) essentially playing what sounded like chords playing backwards was memorable. That piece is still one of my favourites in chamber music.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2010, 05:07:28 AM
Get the 3 CD set on Accord with the complete orchestral music.

I don't find that anywhere . . . but I've got some other discs coming in before long. Can hardly wait; love this stuff!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on March 17, 2010, 05:11:21 AM
I don't find that anywhere . . . but I've got some other discs coming in before long. Can hardly wait; love this stuff!

Here's a reissue (http://www.crotchet.co.uk/cgi-bin/cws/scan/rs=yes/se=4761072/sp=trackscl?mv_pc=zmedi) (I have the original from the early 90s, so I don't know how this one is re liner notes, etc).
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2010, 05:12:07 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Franco on March 17, 2010, 05:55:50 AM
I am finding Giacinto Scelsi, Salvatore Sciarrino, Morton Feldman, György Kurtág  forming an ad hoc "school" in my mind. 

I have been listening to their music for the last week or so and enjoying it quite a bit (Feldman's String Quartet 2/Flux Quartet is fantastic).  I think the Italian avant garde, Nono, Maderna, Dallapiccola of the older generation, and these two Italians (along with Feldman and Kurtag) have become the composers  dominating my listening time at the moment (well, them and Peter Gabriel).

Very good music - and music which has started me on a much welcome journey.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kentel on March 20, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
I am finding Giacinto Scelsi, Salvatore Sciarrino, Morton Feldman, György Kurtág  forming an ad hoc "school" in my mind. 

I would add Friedrich Cerha. I think you should try Tristan Murail - he was a pupil of Scelsi, and one of the very first to promote his works. Really beautiful music too, and maybe the best french living composer. Well, with Dutilleux :)

--Gilles


Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 15, 2010, 08:33:13 PM
ok, back to the real world, ahem. ::)



Here's the state of My Scelsi:

*Accord #1: 4 Illus./ Xynobis/ 5 Incant./ Duo

*Accord #2: Elegia per Ty/ violin and viola pieces/ Trio

*Arditti SQ: Complete 1-5/ Trio (again)/ Khoom (ens. w/vocal)

*Memoire Vive disc: Pranam II (ens. w/vocal)/ Ko-Tha/ I presagi/ Riti #3/ (percussion) Trio/ Manto (ens. w/vocal)/ Kya

*2e2m disc: Kya/ Pranam I/ Maknogan/ Kho-Lo/ Pwyll/ Aitsi/ pieces for trumpet, 2 violins, cello

*Dessy disc of all four string orchestra pieces

*Maknongan on a doublebass disc



I finally got that one Accord disc with the piece Elegia per Ty (vla, vnc), that someone was raving about, and, yes, it is a high point, no questions asked, really. The tone of the viola and cello together produce something...mmm...I think it has in common with SQ No.3. Obviously, I can't explain it, haha (it's one note that goes whrrrr, woosh woosh). At one point, the viola I think, makes a startling yelp that will make you think. Overall, the piece has a perfect, rabid, brown sound, like that disease-in-the-woods-movie Cabin Fever.

The reason I could be so high on that piece, is that the violin piece L'Ame Ailee is, literally, the most ascetic piece I've heard from Mr. One Note. It sounds like what  I imagine La Monte Young's String Trio based on the sounds of high tension wires.

Scelsi (btw: pronunciation, please?...is it shell-see?) is becoming for me a very problematic Composer, and I'm note really sure why. Maybe I already took him for granted before I ever even heard him (I think so maybe). But, I do understand that there is a little listening involved. The main violin solo piece, Xynobis, is more interesting.

Of course I got the Arditti (in that cool original box), but so far I like listening to the early No.1 (@40 mins) the most. No.3 reaches places, and has enough going on for me, and is long enough (@18mins) to count as one of the biggies (to compare with others), and one that I will return to often.

I still haven't sat down for my Evening Concert (where I listen to most of it), so, I'm just shooting out some thoughts.

The vocal pieces for me are,...mmm,....tolerable, in that there are instruments "helping" the dear young lady do the best Crone I've ever heard (piss me off and I'll start a Meredith Monk Thread >:D). I can "dig" it, baby, but why then do I want to say "but" afterwards? The piece Pranam II was especially convincing though, in its presentation (incl. tape). However, the Ms. H is not generally my cup of tea.



The earlier Divertimento for violin, Coelocanth for viola, and wind pieces (which are on ALL ::) those CPO and Col Legno discs) all sound more like fairly normal solo music, all derived from Bach or Debussy it sounds like to me. It is quite shocking, though, after one of his later, static pieces, to have this normal stuff jump out at you. As mid-century suites for solo strings (as compared to Bloch, et al) they're ok, but, you know, they're not meant to be barnstormers I guess. The trumpet pieces would probably work better on a Hardenberger solo disc type thing better maybe.

The Mefano/2e2m disc I kinda have a prob with, in that, on the one hand, there is a lot of diversity, but after a while, a cello piece, followed by a flute piece, followed by trumpet (and the string pieces are recorded kind of small),... the two ensemble pieces (along with Anahit, the violin "concerto) Kya (for clarinet (or sax) and 7) and Pranam I are the best listening experiences, and worthy companions to the SQs.

I've heard the varied trios Okanagon and Yamoan, but these in particular have been criticized as not being the best Ritual Sacrifice Music (see Thread!).

And the early piano music sounds like raga improv to me, nice examples, but, once again, I was doing this at five too. Other piano music by him is not for me.

Without going into the orchestral stuff (the Accord box), that leaves that CPO doublebass disc, which, though it may try, I just can't see. I know there might be a cool piece, but, God willing, I think I can just go ahead and listen to these.

The orchestral stuff's on YouTube, and I'm saving it for a rainy day!

So, what's going on in ScelsiLand?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on September 16, 2010, 01:58:19 AM
It's a while since I listened. I'll cue him up again this morning!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on September 16, 2010, 02:02:22 AM
. . . literally, the most ascetic piece I've heard from Mr. One Note.

Sometimes, one note is all you need.

Quote from: snypr
Scelsi (btw: pronunciation, please?...is it shell-see?)

Yes, that will be close.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 16, 2010, 03:04:16 AM
Overall, the piece has a perfect, rabid, brown sound, like that disease-in-the-woods-movie Cabin Fever.

Well, that sounds....enticing  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: karlhenning on September 16, 2010, 03:07:18 AM
That's gotta give any composer a warm, fuzzy feeling! ; )
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on September 16, 2010, 03:31:31 AM
Scelsi (btw: pronunciation, please?...is it shell-see?)

SHELL-zee.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 24, 2011, 08:45:07 AM
SHELL-zee.

Wow! :o A whole year since a Scelsi Post?? :o

I just had a few days listening to what I have; Scelsi does seem to wear well,... his Art is still in evidence! The standout this time, for me, was the String Quartet No.2. This one has a rough, grating vision, as opposed to the more static No.3. Scelsi really wants you to hear the sounds of things touching,... the woodiness of it all,... the dry, the scratchy...

I was really surprised by No.2 this time. I guess I was coming to Scelsi with a little more wariness, and he surprised me! I certainly don't find him 'boring'. I can get right into those single tones and hear what he's doing, which, granted, really is a lot.

Anyone else particularly like SQ 2?


Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Robert on September 24, 2011, 09:03:52 AM
Wow! :o A whole year since a Scelsi Post?? :o

I just had a few days listening to what I have; Scelsi does seem to wear well,... his Art is still in evidence! The standout this time, for me, was the String Quartet No.2. This one has a rough, grating vision, as opposed to the more static No.3. Scelsi really wants you to hear the sounds of things touching,... the woodiness of it all,... the dry, the scratchy...

I was really surprised by No.2 this time. I guess I was coming to Scelsi with a little more wariness, and he surprised me! I certainly don't find him 'boring'. I can get right into those single tones and hear what he's doing, which, granted, really is a lot.

Anyone else particularly like SQ 2?

I like the second.  There is a particular sound to that quartet that gets my attention. My favorite is the fourth I love the intensity of that one...I hear some Bartok in the distance.....I have the Arditti playing....

Robert
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: mjwal on September 25, 2011, 04:43:52 AM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Jan09/Scelsi_477218.jpg)
This is a pretty good way of getting a feeling for Scelsi's development over about 20 years from dodecaphonic pieces to the beginnings of a new style, with what sounds like Messiaen's influence along the way. If you get tired of listening to all your recordings of Debussy's Préludes, this disc is a godsend, and it is a lovely recording.
I first got to hear Scelsi on that now old Wergo LP with the Canti del Capricorno (with Alvin Curran on the thai-gong in No.1!) - which excited me - and then I heard Anahit in concert played by the Ensemble Modern in the 80s, and I was entranced and in love.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lescamil on September 25, 2011, 08:24:28 PM
SHELL-zee.

Actually, "SHELL-see" was correct. S's are only pronounced as a z-sound between vowels in Italian (coming from an Italian speaker).

Anyone care to share what their favorite orchestral works are by Scelsi? I've heard far too little from this part of his works list.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Muzition on September 26, 2011, 01:32:11 AM
They played a lot of Scelsi's music at a new music festival here a couple of years ago.

My favourite Scelsi piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_h9alYDTbo
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on September 26, 2011, 02:10:46 AM
Anyone care to share what their favorite orchestral works are by Scelsi? I've heard far too little from this part of his works list.

Can't go wrong with the 3-CD set on Accord. My favorite orchestral work is Uaxuctum; Quattro Pezzi is probably the most popular, but IMO it needs to be heard live for full effect.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on September 26, 2011, 02:33:59 AM
Actually, "SHELL-see" was correct. S's are only pronounced as a z-sound between vowels in Italian (coming from an Italian speaker).

It is actually half-way between a z and an s. Not a z like in paese but also not as heavy an s like in cassino or Petrassi. More like casa, così or casino.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 26, 2011, 07:38:01 PM
Can't go wrong with the 3-CD set on Accord. My favorite orchestral work is Uaxuctum; Quattro Pezzi is probably the most popular, but IMO it needs to be heard live for full effect.

I'm really feeling the need here. I still haven't listened to these pieces on YouTube. I think I listened to 5 seconds, knew I was going to like it, and turned it off, saving for,... when? ???
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lescamil on September 26, 2011, 08:50:03 PM
I listened to a few of these pieces. I really liked them, but it was the sort of music that left me feeling "why do I like these works?" during the listening. Quite puzzling these pieces are sometimes, and this is coming from someone used to the most compromising of contemporary works. I'll be spending some time with these pieces.

By the way, a small factoid: In the recent movie Shutter Island, Scelsi's Quattro Pezzi and Uaxuctum were both used as part of a soundtrack that largely consisted of harder-edged contemporary classical music. I'll be seeing the movie just for that reason soon.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on September 27, 2011, 02:59:41 AM
Anyone care to share what their favorite orchestral works are by Scelsi? I've heard far too little from this part of his works list.
Uaxuctum or the quasi-violin concerto Anahit here. I'm also very partial to Aion, which wears its Brucknerian inheritance lightly, and Konx-Om-Pax, whose climactic octave leap may be the most orgiastic moment in all of Scelsi's oeuvre.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 16, 2011, 07:42:55 AM
Can't go wrong with the 3-CD set on Accord. My favorite orchestral work is Uaxuctum; Quattro Pezzi is probably the most popular, but IMO it needs to be heard live for full effect.

Just ordered,... finally!! That took a while, haha.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 16, 2011, 07:44:13 AM
. . . Quattro Pezzi is probably the most popular, but IMO it needs to be heard live for full effect.

I could see that.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on December 16, 2011, 08:17:51 AM
Obviously it's true of all composers, but I've found that the spatial aspect of live performance is particularly useful in Scelsi in teasing apart the densely packed knots of near-identical pitches. Not to mention that the sheer physical immediacy of some of his work doesn't come over as strongly on disc (I've heard a few live Okanagons, for example, and--as with Xenakis or Ustvolskaya--there's a physicality to the performance and a sonic harshness that don't tend to reproduce well on recording).
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 21, 2011, 12:52:24 PM
Scelsi: Works for Choir & Orchestra (Accord 3cd)


I am scarcely into the 4 Pezzi and Anahit when I feel like I could just cocoon away for the next two weeks with Scelsi. I have purposely stayed away from this music until I had this set, and now it's time. Just considering that the 4 Pezzi were actually an instant hit in 1959 makes one wonder WHO actually heard this, and was influenced. WHO?

I'm practically bursting with anticipation! I'm only going to listen to these two pieces until I can't stand it. 4 Pezzi reminds me partially of Punkte (though I haven't heard the 1952 version- is it on YT?), and I say so because I just heard that for the first time recently, so, of course you can trust my impartiality! ;) ;D 8)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on December 21, 2011, 01:47:09 PM
Scelsi: Works for Choir & Orchestra (Accord 3cd)

I am scarcely into the 4 Pezzi and Anahit when I feel like I could just cocoon away for the next two weeks with Scelsi. I have purposely stayed away from this music until I had this set, and now it's time. Just considering that the 4 Pezzi were actually an instant hit in 1959 makes one wonder WHO actually heard this, and was influenced. WHO?

I'm practically bursting with anticipation! I'm only going to listen to these two pieces until I can't stand it. 4 Pezzi reminds me partially of Punkte (though I haven't heard the 1952 version- is it on YT?), and I say so because I just heard that for the first time recently, so, of course you can trust my impartiality! ;) ;D 8)

In my experience, Quattro Pezzi only really works in the concert hall, where it works really really well. On that set, I find it to be the least interesting of the bunch. But on that same CD, the other two pieces (Anahit and Uaxuctum) are some of the strongest pieces of the whole set.

Punkte of 1952 was withdrawn and is much shorter and for smaller ensemble than the 1962 version.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 21, 2011, 06:09:33 PM
In my experience, Quattro Pezzi only really works in the concert hall, where it works really really well. On that set, I find it to be the least interesting of the bunch. But on that same CD, the other two pieces (Anahit and Uaxuctum) are some of the strongest pieces of the whole set.

Punkte of 1952 was withdrawn and is much shorter and for smaller ensemble than the 1962 version.

I just listened to Uaxuctum for the first time. Very niiice!! I sounds like what I had wished Penderecki would sound like (the closest for me is KP's Magnificat). It definitely has an otherwordly, ancient,... and spooky quality that are supreme! I could have used more, More, MORE,... but, as a start, Scelsi certainly gets the Varese Award for Best Mayan Apocalypse!! ;)

Still got two discs to go, woohoo! :D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: ibanezmonster on December 21, 2011, 08:40:47 PM
Oh, I feel it. I feel the cosmos. Taurus came charging back. Moooooooooooooo!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/v/HFt8zQGf4S8
Scelsi: Anahit
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 24, 2011, 12:15:41 AM
Scelsi: Works for Choir & Orchestra (Accord 3cd)

I have been really overwhelmed by this set, and I'm only half way through. Frankly, the primal, other-wordly intensity (deceptively subdued on the face of it) can be exhausting, whew! ???

Aion & Hurqualia were vast vast halls of exhausting concentration. Both had individual touches in the instrumentation (Scelsi prefers a very 'inducing' lower orchestration, sans upper strings! (I-did-not-know-that!)), and both perfectly captured a primal conjuring that was truly awe inspiring. Frankly, I can't even remeber what Konx-Om-Pax sounds like now,... Scelsi's music is so all consuming that one gets lost without little touches (like the single harp flourish in Aion).

Coming so late in my avant education, this set is truly putting me on my ear. I really is what I was looking for. Honestly, this is really spare and severe music, and I hear a little early-mid Xenakis in the feral quality of the actual sounds, though I'm missing some Xenakian hallmarks like the glissandi and the rhythmic complexity (rhythmic complexity is something missing hearing, technically, but,... it's OK!,... it's quite ok,...). I have certainly never heard music of this static quality (MetaSTASIS not withstanding, haha). There really is a certain quality to this music that is beyond words.

Beyond words

(I still haven't heard Hymnos, Chukrum, & Pfhat)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 28, 2011, 07:49:03 AM
Hymnos continues the aural juggernaut. Literally, this Scelsi set is overwhelming! :o I'm exhausted! ???

I'm trying to distinguish between the inner movements of these pieces, but wow, these pieces are something else! Wow! :o

Where do you go after Scelsi, haha?? ???


These pieces remind me of standing in the DC museums as a young child, so overwhelmed with the sheer size of the buildings, and the things in them. They sound like giant hallways.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 28, 2011, 09:36:48 PM
Ugh, I've overdosed on Scelsi lately,... I feel like I've got bells ringing in my ears! Ahhh :o
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: lescamil on December 28, 2011, 09:44:49 PM
Scelsi is like alcohol: great in manageable doses, but it can be overwhelming or potentially harmful in large doses. I'd much rather get Scelsi-drunk, though!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 28, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
Scelsi is like alcohol: great in manageable doses, but it can be overwhelming or potentially harmful in large doses. I'd much rather get Scelsi-drunk, though!

Wazzzat?? ???...uh,...(stumbles around)...oh oh, yea, Scelsi,...burp! :o... CRASH!!...
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on February 16, 2012, 09:59:39 AM
Scelsi: Works for Choir & Orchestra (Accord 3cd)


I am scarcely into the 4 Pezzi and Anahit when I feel like I could just cocoon away for the next two weeks with Scelsi. I have purposely stayed away from this music until I had this set, and now it's time. Just considering that the 4 Pezzi were actually an instant hit in 1959 makes one wonder WHO actually heard this, and was influenced. WHO?

I'm practically bursting with anticipation! I'm only going to listen to these two pieces until I can't stand it. 4 Pezzi reminds me partially of Punkte (though I haven't heard the 1952 version- is it on YT?), and I say so because I just heard that for the first time recently, so, of course you can trust my impartiality! ;) ;D 8)

I guess it's been about two months now with this set, which has effortlessly skyrocketed into Heavy Rotation! I have been listening regularly, studying, and I thick I can break it down like this:


A) Quattro Pezzi (1959): truly single notes, no 'spectralization' as in later works, only 'vibrato' fluctuations

     *Chukrum (1963): this piece, though written a little later, 'feels' more like it belongs to the 'note' period, rather than
                               the more 'saturated' later pieces. Especially when one considers this as a 'strings only' piece
                               (like the other (*) pieces), it is in bold relief to them in terms of simplicity. This piece reminds me of
                               Penderecki.

B) Hurqualia (1960)
    Aion (1961)

    Both of these seem to have the most 'movement', having 'features' which definitely distinguish them from others.
    Hurqualia's opening is 'Da Bomb' in terms of Scelsi at his coolest. These two still seem to work on single notes, without
    spectral harmonization, using only 'vibrato' fluctuations. Aion seems the most peaceful and static of most of the works.
    To me, these are like Symphonies.

C) Hymnos (1963)
    Anahit (1965)
    *Anagamin (1965)
    *Ohoi (1966)
    *Natura Renovatur (1967)

    These all exhibit the saturating 'spectral' harmonies that thicken the texture in Scelsi towards The Infinite. These are
    absolutely some of the most mystical sounding musics ever composed. All may at first glance seem amorphous, but
    EXTREME concentration (which IS what these pieces DEMAND!) repays a universe of detail. Enough... you know! ;)
   
D) Uaxuctum (1966): this may be the coolest of all, with creepy horror movie sounds from the choir, and the ondes'
                               evocative tone. It's the one based on the imaginary destruction of the Mayans (Aztecs?). It appears
                               this one is more like the earlier 'note' pieces rather than the later, more 'saturated' pieces.

E) Konx-Om-Pax (1969): this seems like a late '60s 'summing up' piece, with two hefty, pacific,  outer movements flanking a
                                    two minute whirlwind. This one I've listened to the least so far (no criticism).

F) Pfhat (1974): besides such a funny Title, this one stands out as being THE most refined expression of Scelsi's art.
                        It is also the shortest. This is special, and very spare and reverent sounding,... almost 'churchy'.

    *Elohim (date unknown?): this is the last 'strings only' piece, and 'sounds' more like '70s Scelsi, very nice as a stand alone.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on February 16, 2012, 10:30:34 AM
I guess it's been about two months now with this set,

Hmmm, to be pedantic, half of what you listed isn't on the set: Anagamin, Ohoi, Natura Renovatur and Elohim and they are more like ensemble works rather than orchestral.

I like Elohim a lot; heard it once in concert in the mid 90s (with Quattro Pezzi, Varèse's Amériques and the premiere of Xenakis' Dämmerschein--yes, I was there and got X to sign my programme notes 8)) and I was awe-struck. The set up was string quartet with the amplified instruments on tape; the effect of the tape sounds (similar to recorded string sounds played backwards, i.e. long attack and abrupt decay) and the interplay with the real strings was truly memorable.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on February 18, 2012, 02:42:12 PM
Hmmm, to be pedantic, half of what you listed isn't on the set: Anagamin, Ohoi, Natura Renovatur and Elohim and they are more like ensemble works rather than orchestral.


Those four are on the Forlane disc, which I've had for a while, but haven't really payed attention to until I got the Set. I needed to hear everything together. Those string pieces are just as important as the Set, though, and I highly recommend everyone get those also; perhaps the sound on the Forlane isn't the last word, though,... maybe.

I still haven't felt confident enough to start integrating the Chamber Works into the rotation. I'm giving Scelsi all the due that he appears to DEMAND!!! :o I've been concentrating on SQs 2-3, though.

Slowly, I'm beginning to 'sense' Scelsi.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: bumtz on March 27, 2012, 11:28:00 AM
I just got the Accord set myself, and also got stuck on it. Listening to it on repeat for three days now. Not sure how one gets off Scelsi, not sure I want to.

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Apr04/scelsi_4761072.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Brewski on March 27, 2012, 11:35:37 AM
I just got the Accord set myself, and also got stuck on it. Listening to it on repeat for three days now. Not sure how one gets off Scelsi, not sure I want to.


Hypnotic stuff, isn't it! Definitely a unique talent, with a singular sound world.

I fantasize about Alan Gilbert programming Quattro Pezzi on a New York Philharmonic concert. (Not sure what else he would put with it, though.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 27, 2012, 11:48:47 AM
(Not sure what else he would put with it, though.)

Could be some Henning would go with that.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: DieNacht on March 27, 2012, 11:59:41 AM
Hypnotic stuff, isn't it! Definitely a unique talent, with a singular sound world.

I fantasize about Alan Gilbert programming Quattro Pezzi on a New York Philharmonic concert. (Not sure what else he would put with it, though.)

--Bruce

Bruckner - 9 or 8 ! The building itself would probably levitate ...  :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on March 27, 2012, 02:08:44 PM
I just got the Accord set myself, and also got stuck on it. Listening to it on repeat for three days now. Not sure how one gets off Scelsi, not sure I want to.

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Apr04/scelsi_4761072.jpg)

 

Yup. That's what happens.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2012, 05:35:27 AM
It was about 100 degrees the other day, a perfect day for Scelsi's music apparently! The oppresive heat DOES seem to translate into Scelsi's somewhat pulsating hazy thick textures just hanging in the air. Aion especially had me visualizing vast halls or fields that went on and on against a blue sky. I CAN listen to Scelsi during the daytime! (as opposed to a lot of Modern Music)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 02:15:33 PM
Count me as another member who seems to have been bitten by the Scelsi bug. :) I just bought that 3-CD set of orchestral works as well. How do some of these performances compare to the ones on Mode? Anyone?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 03:20:19 PM
Hhhhhhheeeeeelllllllllooooooo?!?!?!? Anyone in here? :laugh:
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 30, 2013, 03:41:43 PM
Count me as another member who seems to have been bitten by the Scelsi bug. :) I just bought that 3-CD set of orchestral works as well. How do some of these performances compare to the ones on Mode? Anyone?

I don't know, but,... really? ::) ;) The old timey sound is part of the ancient charm, no?

ok, I guess state of the art versions are allowed. :P The Stradivarius label also has a new set of mixed works. Glad you made it here.

bwwwwoooouuuuwwwwrrrrrr   brrrrrrrrooooooowwwwwwwwrrrrrrrr  brrrrrroooowwwwrrr
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 03:47:14 PM
I don't know, but,... really? ::) ;) The old timey sound is part of the ancient charm, no?

ok, I guess state of the art versions are allowed. :P The Stradivarius label also has a new set of mixed works. Glad you made it here.

bwwwwoooouuuuwwwwrrrrrr   brrrrrrrrooooooowwwwwwwwrrrrrrrr  brrrrrroooowwwwrrr

It's good to be here. Yeah, the Stradavarius label seems like a good bet. I'll probably dip into those at some point. I need to quit thinking about the awesome power of Uaxuctum right now. I mean seriously this work blew my mind. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. What as the first work you heard by Scelsi, snyprrr?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Just finished listening to Uaxuctum on YouTube. Well.......that was interesting, to say the very least! I can't say I liked it much at all, but it certainly was unlike anything I had ever heard before. I'm not sure if I would even call it "classical" in the general sense of the term. I'll be investigating more of Scelsi's music, but it'll be more of a chore than a pleasure, I'm afraid. From what little I've read about him, he had a life just as interesting as his music. Would those more knowledgeable of Scelsi's music than I am be so kind as to please direct me to what some of his best works are? Much appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 04:39:53 PM
Just finished listening to Uaxuctum on YouTube. Well.......that was interesting, to say the very least! I can't say I liked it much at all, but it certainly was unlike anything I had ever heard before. I'm not sure if I would even call it "classical" in the general sense of the term. I'll be investigating more of Scelsi's music, but it'll be more of a chore than a pleasure, I'm afraid.

 ??? ::)

Oh dear...I don't even know where to start with this post...

Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 04:42:07 PM
??? ::)

Oh dear...I don't even know where to start with this post...

What do you mean? I listened to the piece and gave my honest opinion, what more do you want? ::) I don't sugarcoat things, John. If I don't like something, I sure as hell won't cover up that fact. You can't expect me to like every single damn thing I hear.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 04:48:31 PM
What do you mean? I listened to the piece and gave my honest opinion, what more do you want? ::) I don't sugarcoat things, John. If I don't like something, I sure as hell won't cover up that fact. You can't expect me to like every single damn thing I hear.

I don't expect you to like everything you hear. That's certainly true, but your whole negative attitude with music that isn't somehow 'lyrical' or 'melodic' or fits into the little imaginary bubble you have created is utter bullshit. Sorry, I had to say that but I don't sugarcoat things either. All I asked is that you were open-minded about what you just heard and I can't say I honestly believe that you were trying to be genuinely open-minded or at least get something out of the music. Music like this must be listened to on it's own terms and not the ones you have created for yourself.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on September 30, 2013, 04:56:31 PM
Guys!  ;D

(http://www.consumersinternational.org/media/576946/banking-referee.gif)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:00:47 PM
I don't expect you to like everything you hear. That's certainly true, but your whole negative attitude with music that isn't somehow 'lyrical' or 'melodic' or fits into the little imaginary bubble you have created is utter bullshit. Sorry, I had that but I don't sugarcoat things either. All I asked is that you were open-minded about what you just heard and I can't say I honestly believe that you were trying to be genuinely open-minded or at least get something out of the music. Music like this must be listened to on it's own terms and not the ones you have created for yourself.

Major eye roll. ::) I listened with an open mind, but doing so doesn't guarantee you'll connect to the music that you are listening to. I listened intently to the music-all the textural details, everything. The fact that you assume I didn't listen with an open mind is a very poor judgement on your part. Let me reiterate-I DID NOT HATE THE PIECE! It's just that Scelci's style doesn't appeal to me, just like some of the composers who I like composed in styles that don't appeal to you. Again, I'm not giving up on Scelsi, because I'm not the person you are making me out to be that has rigid, unflappable tastes. You're my buddy and all, John, but remember that I didn't blow up on you when you expressed your dislike for composers I recommended to you, such as Nystroem. And, by the way, why are you talking to me about being too cautious of a listener when there are people out there who won't venture beyond Tchaikovsky! ::)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:00:51 PM
I'm sorry for snapping at you, Kyle. Please accept my apology. I shouldn't be telling anyone how to listen to music. I suppose my enthusiasm for this Scelsi work got the better of me and I took your comments too personally. All I was trying to do was share something I thought you would enjoy. So, yes, you certainly aren't expected to enjoy everything you hear just as the same applies to myself.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:02:41 PM
Guys!  ;D

(http://www.consumersinternational.org/media/576946/banking-referee.gif)

I'm afraid I don't understand your allusion, Ray. :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:06:56 PM
I'm sorry for snapping at you, Kyle. Please accept my apology. I shouldn't be telling anyone how to listen to music. I suppose my enthusiasm for this Scelsi work got the better of me and I took your comments too personally. All I was trying to do was share something I thought you would enjoy. So, yes, you certainly aren't expected to enjoy everything you hear just as the same applies to myself.

Apology accepted. :) I will always be glad to try out anything you recommend to me, just please expect any type of reaction from me! I'm almost as unpredictable as you are, after all! ;D

P.S. May this day, September 29, 2013, go down in GMG history as the first major brawl between our two lunatics-in-residence! :P :laugh:
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:10:54 PM
Apology accepted. :) I will always be glad to try out anything you recommend to me, just please expect any type of reaction from me! I'm almost as unpredictable as you are, after all! ;D

P.S. May this day, September 29, 2013, go down in GMG history as the first major brawl between our two lunatics-in-residence! :P :laugh:

Thanks, Kyle. The only difference here is we both have sense enough to let things go unlike some members here who will hang things over your head forever or so it seems.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 30, 2013, 05:13:09 PM
I'm afraid I don't understand your allusion, Ray. :)

It's a Foot Locker employee handing you a golden ticket to Willie Wonka's Factory.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 30, 2013, 05:13:25 PM
It's good to be here. Yeah, the Stradavarius label seems like a good bet. I'll probably dip into those at some point. I need to quit thinking about the awesome power of Uaxuctum right now. I mean seriously this work blew my mind. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. What as the first work you heard by Scelsi, snyprrr?

I had the SQs, but I heard the Box for the first time last year (see my agape reaction above). Uaxuctum sounds like the perfect zombi soundtrack!! I hear all the ruins,... the dead voices. I like the hissing and such.

It all has that ancient pre-Exorcist type feel for me. woooooo
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
Thanks, Kyle. The only difference here is we both have sense enough to let things go unlike some members here who will hang things over your head forever or so it seems.

Yeah, it's senseless to keep animosities in place after a disagreement has occurred. Forgive and forget, I always say. :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:15:34 PM
Uaxuctum sounds like the perfect zombi soundtrack!!

Now that I can agree with! :D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:15:58 PM
I had the SQs, but I heard the Box for the first time last year (see my agape reaction above). Uaxuctum sounds like the perfect zombie soundtrack!! I hear all the ruins,... the dead voices. I like the hissing and such.

It all has that ancient pre-Exorcist type feel for me. woooooo

Yeah, I thought the work was freakin' cool and Scelsi will be my Composer of the Month for October. And how fitting that you mentioned zombies and such. This work does inhabit such an eerie sound-world. I love it.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:16:46 PM
It's a Foot Locker employee handing you a golden ticket to Willie Wonka's Factory.

Ohhhhh.....it's been ages since I've watched that movie......
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 30, 2013, 05:17:00 PM
It's a Foot Locker employee handing you a golden ticket to Willie Wonka's Factory.

I thought it was a yellow flag for spatting, lolz!?!?! Too much starch in the you know you know?!?! :'( :laugh: :'( :laugh:

Scelsi does have brief moments of fleeting melody, and are all the more powerful for the scarcity.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 30, 2013, 05:18:29 PM
Group Hug ;)

there there
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:20:03 PM
I guess this is one reason I liked the work because, as a kid, I used to watch a lot of horror movies and the soundtracks always sounded so awesome to me, especially one like Poltergeist or like whoever did the first Hellraiser...oh...I just looked it up, it's Christopher Young.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on September 30, 2013, 05:27:20 PM
I'm afraid I don't understand your allusion, Ray. :)

Yeah, it's a yellow card for fighting (you and John).  I was just being cheeky.  :P
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:29:04 PM
I never liked horror movies, not even when I was a kid, so maybe that would explain my reaction towards that Scelsi work ;)......

P.S. Hey, Halloween's coming up! I think I know now what will scare the little children more than any scary decorations......I should do a Mayan theme to decorate my house to go along with the Scelsi work. Not a bad idea if I say so myself! 8)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on September 30, 2013, 05:30:16 PM
I never liked horror movies, not even when I was a kid, so maybe that would explain my reaction towards that Scelsi work ;)......

P.S. Hey, Halloween's coming up! I think I know now what will scare the little children more than any scary decorations......

Hmm, I'll have to listen to this Scelsi work.  I love scary, spooky music.  That's why I love Penderecki's Polymorphia.  ;D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
Yeah, it's a yellow card for fighting (you and John).  I was just being cheeky.  :P

I always appreciate a comic relief to enter such situations! :D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:34:51 PM
I never liked horror movies, not even when I was a kid, so maybe that would explain my reaction towards that Scelsi work ;)......

P.S. Hey, Halloween's coming up! I think I know now what will scare the little children more than any scary decorations......I should do a Mayan theme to decorate my house to go along with the Scelsi work. Not a bad idea if I say so myself! 8)

:D Good idea. If you really want to impress the kids, play them some Strauss. I'm sure you'll have some of them snoozing away at the five minute mark in Alpine Symphony. ;) :laugh:
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:37:08 PM
Hmm, I'll have to listen to this Scelsi work.  I love scary, spooky music.  That's why I love Penderecki's Polymorphia.  ;D

Well here's your chance, Ray:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BtVrIT-TC2g
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on September 30, 2013, 05:37:16 PM
:D Good idea. If you really want to impress the kids, play them some Strauss. I'm sure you'll have some of them snoozing away at the five minute mark in Alpine Symphony. ;) :laugh:

 :laugh:

Hey!!!  That happens to be my favourite Strauss work! Time to bring in the red card!  :D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on September 30, 2013, 05:38:21 PM
Well here's your chance, Ray:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BtVrIT-TC2g

OK, I shall do.  Thanks, John!  :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: John Copeland on September 30, 2013, 05:39:00 PM
 >:(   This is not music.
I am 15 minutes into listening to Scelsi's Uaxuctum on YouTube, and very soon indeed I will have switched the damn thing off in favor of something which has music in it...utter pish, complete nonsense, pretentious haberdashery of sounds, voices and instruments.  Unfortunately there are and have been many vulgar 'composers' of this kind, and many more ostentatious dafties that find entertainment in this kind of tosh.   :'(
I am very sorry, but that is all I can add to this thread.  I have a good mind to compose something myself - if this kind of stuff can be 'liked' and actually sell discs, by all the Gods I could be a composer of some notoriety myself by cranking out a load of old cobblers with a similar pretense.  In fact...I might just do that...
This is NOT music methinks.
Ach!
 :'(
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
:laugh:

Hey!!!  That happens to be my favourite Strauss work! Time to bring in the red card!  :D

 :P
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:41:31 PM
>:(   This is not music.
I am 15 minutes into listening to Scelsi's Uaxuctum on YouTube, and very soon indeed I will have switched the damn thing off in favor of something which has music in it...utter pish, complete nonsense, pretentious haberdashery of sounds, voices and instruments.  Unfortunately there are and have been many vulgar 'composers' of this kind, and many more ostentatious dafties that find entertainment in this kind of tosh.   :'(
I am very sorry, but that is all I can add to this thread.  I have a good mind to compose something myself - if this kind of stuff can be 'liked' and actually sell discs, by all the Gods I could be a composer of some notoriety myself by cranking out a load of old cobblers with a similar pretense.  In fact...I might just do that...
This is NOT music methinks.
Ach!
 :'(

Yikes! Man, I'm starting to like Scelsi even more now. ;) :D Thanks for listening though, John. So this work has two strikes against so far.

Oh, and thank you for listening too, Kyle and Ray!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on September 30, 2013, 05:53:06 PM
Count me as another member who seems to have been bitten by the Scelsi bug. :) I just bought that 3-CD set of orchestral works as well. How do some of these performances compare to the ones on Mode? Anyone?
The Wyttenbach performances aren't anything like the last word on accuracy (I once heard part of a laundry list of specific errors in these performances from a conductor with considerable knowledge of the repertoire in question), but I think they get the spirit of the music basically right.

Of the works Wyttenbach recorded:

Hurqualia: Izquierdo on Mode is poor. Wyttenbach is the obvious choice.
Hymnos: Izquierdo on Mode is poor; Ceccherini on Stradivarius is superb here, with a wonderful sense of space in the slow central section.
Chukrum: Ceccherini has a recording on Stradivarius which I've not heard for a while but I think I preferred to Wyttenbach on last listening.

Quattro pezzi: Zender on cpo and Rundel on Mode are both recommendable over Wyttenbach.
Anahit: Zender on Kairos is far superior to Wyttenbach IMO.
Uaxuctum: Rundel on Mode is I think more accurate; Wyttenbach may be more orgiastic.

Aion: Wyttenbach is more Brucknerian; Ceccherini on Stradivarius is rawer. I prefer Ceccherini but could make an argument for either.
Pfhat: I think Wyttenbach is the only recording of this work.
Konx-Om-Pax: Izquierdo on Mode is poor; Wyttenbach is the only recommendable option.

Links to other recommendations:

Ceccherini (Aion and Hymnos, also Quattro pezzi and the early Ballata):


Zender (Anahit plus chamber works; one of the finest Scelsi discs I've heard):


Zender (Quattro pezzi plus Pranam I and three of his own works):


Rundel (Uaxuctum and Quattro pezzi, plus Kalitske conducting the early La nascita del verbo):



There's also a very interesting-looking recording on NEOS that I wasn't aware of till compiling this reply and which is going straight on my wishlist: Zender and Rundel conducting the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra in Quattro pezzi, Chukrum, Hymnos and Natura Renovatur (which is, in all but name, a transcription for small string orchestra of the superb 4th string quartet). Given the performers, I'd be astonished if this wasn't a no-brainer recommendation for all the works in question.


Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
:D Good idea. If you really want to impress the kids, play them some Strauss. I'm sure you'll have some of them snoozing away at the five minute mark in Alpine Symphony. ;) :laugh:

Lol......if I ever have children, I'll be sure to play them plenty of Strauss to get them to fall asleep. When I'm not in the room, of course! :P
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:58:38 PM
Man, I'm starting to like Scelsi even more now. ;) :D

The essence of John summed up into once sentence. 8)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 06:00:47 PM
Lol......if I ever have children, I'll be sure to play them plenty of Strauss to get them to fall asleep. When I'm not in the room, of course! :P

Yes, you mustn't be in the room! :D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
>:(   This is not music.
I am 15 minutes into listening to Scelsi's Uaxuctum on YouTube, and very soon indeed I will have switched the damn thing off in favor of something which has music in it...utter pish, complete nonsense, pretentious haberdashery of sounds, voices and instruments.  Unfortunately there are and have been many vulgar 'composers' of this kind, and many more ostentatious dafties that find entertainment in this kind of tosh.   :'(
I am very sorry, but that is all I can add to this thread.  I have a good mind to compose something myself - if this kind of stuff can be 'liked' and actually sell discs, by all the Gods I could be a composer of some notoriety myself by cranking out a load of old cobblers with a similar pretense.  In fact...I might just do that...
This is NOT music methinks.
Ach!
 :'(

Man, if you hadn't have had a change of heart about Schnittke, I'm sure John (Mirror Image) would have thrown you in the volcano by now! :P

Wow, I'm in a really punchy mood tonight! Must go to bed.....
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 30, 2013, 06:02:34 PM
John's avatar in two week: Scelsi  ;D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
The Wyttenbach performances aren't anything like the last word on accuracy (I once heard part of a laundry list of specific errors in these performances from a conductor with considerable knowledge of the repertoire in question), but I think they get the spirit of the music basically right.

Of the works Wyttenbach recorded:

Hurqualia: Izquierdo on Mode is poor. Wyttenbach is the obvious choice.
Hymnos: Izquierdo on Mode is poor; Ceccherini on Stradivarius is superb here, with a wonderful sense of space in the slow central section.
Chukrum: Ceccherini has a recording on Stradivarius which I've not heard for a while but I think I preferred to Wyttenbach on last listening.

Quattro pezzi: Zender on cpo and Rundel on Mode are both recommendable over Wyttenbach.
Anahit: Zender on Kairos is far superior to Wyttenbach IMO.
Uaxuctum: Rundel on Mode is I think more accurate; Wyttenbach may be more orgiastic.

Aion: Wyttenbach is more Brucknerian; Ceccherini on Stradivarius is rawer. I prefer Ceccherini but could make an argument for either.
Pfhat: I think Wyttenbach is the only recording of this work.
Konx-Om-Pax: Izquierdo on Mode is poor; Wyttenbach is the only recommendable option.

Links to other recommendations:

Ceccherini (Aion and Hymnos, also Quattro pezzi and the early Ballata):


Zender (Anahit plus chamber works; one of the finest Scelsi discs I've heard):


Zender (Quattro pezzi plus Pranam I and three of his own works):


Rundel (Uaxuctum and Quattro pezzi, plus Kalitske conducting the early La nascita del verbo):



There's also a very interesting-looking recording on NEOS that I wasn't aware of till compiling this reply and which is going straight on my wishlist: Zender and Rundel conducting the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra in Quattro pezzi, Chukrum, Hymnos and Natura Renovatur (which is, in all but name, a transcription for small string orchestra of the superb 4th string quartet). Given the performers, I'd be astonished if this wasn't a no-brainer recommendation for all the works in question.



Thanks for all the information, Edward. It seems that, even though there are apparent errors in Wyttenbach's performances, that his is still the one that gets the highest accolades. Glad I bought that set.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 06:04:48 PM
Man, if you hadn't have had a change of heart about Schnittke, I'm sure John (Mirror Image) would have thrown you in the volcano by now! :P

Wow, I'm in a really punchy mood tonight! Must go to bed.....

Scots John will always be A-OK in my book. He likes Shostakovich a lot, so keeping this in mind, he won't be thrown into that fiery hole. :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 06:05:07 PM
John's avatar in two week: Scelsi  ;D

No, he's probably gonna change it right now! ;D
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
Scots John will always be A-OK in my book. He likes Shostakovich a lot, so keeping this in mind, he won't be thrown into that fiery hole. :)

Phew.....I'm safe, then......
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
No, he's probably gonna change it right now! ;D

Nope, I don't plan on changing this avatar again for quite some time actually.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 06:09:24 PM
The essence of John summed up into once sentence. 8)

 :P :laugh:
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 07:18:50 PM
Please let me know what you think about Scelsi work, Ray. I'm curious to know if you think it's crap or an awesome piece. :)

But let's move onto another Scelsi work Aion:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zLi3xxxjHDc

http://www.youtube.com/v/JWeqZ5OW7Qo

http://www.youtube.com/v/kv21uaVx0oA

http://www.youtube.com/v/wEQ8QhEDSH0
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 07:44:53 PM
There's a good write-up about this Scelsi orchestral set on MusicWeb:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/May04/scelsi.htm
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on October 01, 2013, 12:42:22 AM
Nope, I don't plan on changing this avatar again for quite some time actually.


Wow..it's déjà vu all over again  :D ;)

Sarge
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on October 01, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Well here's your chance, Ray:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BtVrIT-TC2g

Hi John,

Well, I finally had a chance to hear Scelsi's Uaxuctum, and I can honestly say I enjoyed it quite a bit!  :)  Perhaps I was already bracing myself for music that was going to be quite 'different', and thus perhaps it did not shock me or surprise me as much as I thought it would.

Have to admit, I had my doubts prior to listening to the piece, and my expectations prior weren't high.  I can say I truly enjoyed the piece and it obviously exceeded my expectations.  :)

Unique, haunting, spiritual.  I didn't find it particularly scary or spooky, per se, but merely haunting, spiritual.  The fusion of percussive effects, with choral and brass blended quite well, at least to these laymen ears.  ;D

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but it was not unlike a mixture of Ligeti and early-modern Penderecki.

I would return and listen to this work again.  It would be quite an experience also to hear a live performance of this work.  I think it would up the 'powerfulness' of the piece big time!

Very unique.  I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts.  :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: John Copeland on October 01, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts.  :)

Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on October 01, 2013, 04:06:38 PM
Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...

 ;D  If you're not back in 20 minutes, we'll send in the Emergency Response Team.  :D ;)  Hope second time is a better experience for you, SJ!  :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: John Copeland on October 01, 2013, 04:29:37 PM
I have listened again Ray and investigated just exactly what this Uaxuctum is about.  It's making more sense to me.  It is a bit like the future back in time in a civilization we are still trying to understand.  The piece is subtitled " "The legend of the Maya city, destroyed by themselves for religious reasons"...and with that knowledge, I can appreciate it more fully.  It is my own misgiving that I did not investigate the title Uaxuctum before I listened to it last night - if I had, eh...my opinion would have been different.  :o  As a piece of music to be listened to without any foreshadow of its content meaning, it is pure baloney...but once the daftness subsides and a proper investigation is launched, it becomes eminently more meaningful...
Sorry for going nuts last night, it was a case of expecting 'music' without understanding the mysterious settings it was describing.  Hmm.  At the moment therefore I have gone from "This is shit, terrible, shouldn't even be considered" ....   to   ...."What an interesting piece, now that I know what it's about...or not!"  So I must confess I was blasting it through my own personal ignorance of it's content.
I will listen again, why not, see if I can gain more insight into it.   0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on October 01, 2013, 04:33:15 PM
Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...
Now it may well be that you dislike the work as much on a second listen as on a first, but hey, if so you can say you tried and you don't like it.

On the other hand, I often find that a strong dislike for a work on first listen isn't actually a bad thing. After such an experience I often have to step back, a few days later, and ask myself "did I hate it because it was badly written or crass or uninteresting, or because it kept doing things that intuitively felt wrong to me, or because I couldn't follow what the hell was going on." And if I suspect it might be one of the latter two, hopefully I'll keep myself open to repeated listenings (I'm sure I don't do this nearly as much as I "should").

For me, it was like that with Elliott Carter and the first work of his I got to know, the Concerto for Orchestra. The first listening, it just was a wash of undifferentiated dissonances with changing colours and textures. I hated it. But something kept nagging at me, and every few months I kept pulling the recording back out. It still didn't work for me, and I didn't keep trying over and over again because (a) I didn't want to and (b) I figured that would just make certain I'd never like the piece.

Then, a few years after I'd first heard the Concerto for Orchestra, I had the chance to go to a concert that included the Double Concerto. That piece made sense immediately, perhaps because it was a live performance, perhaps because those tries listening to the Concerto for Orchestra had prepared me for it, and most likely because of both these factors. And when I went back to the Concerto for Orchestra again, though I didn't 'get' all of it, I did understand it a lot better, and this time I was certain that future listenings would bring further insight (and they did).

Now I'm not saying "I'm such a wonderful listener, I stuck with this work for years and eventually it made sense." Because I'm not, and honestly the fact that it made sense to me in the end was probably as much luck as anything. But I can't think of any work that I had a tepidly favourable reaction to at first which has ever ended up meaning much to me, while I can think of many works which I hated at first and mean much to me now.

Of course, I can also think of many works I hated at first and still hate, but I'm less concerned by them because, frankly, they're not very important to me.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: OrchestralNut on October 01, 2013, 04:34:47 PM
I have listened again Ray and investigated just exactly what this Uaxuctum is about.  It's making more sense to me.  It is a bit like the future back in time in a civilization we are still trying to understand.  The piece is subtitled " "The legend of the Maya city, destroyed by themselves for religious reasons"...and with that knowledge, I can appreciate it more fully.  It is my own misgiving that I did not investigate the title Uaxuctum before I listened to it last night - if I had, eh...my opinion would have been different.  :o  As a piece of music to be listened to without any foreshadow of its content meaning, it is pure baloney...but once the daftness subsides and a proper investigation is launched, it becomes eminently more meaningful...
Sorry for going nuts last night, it was a case of expecting 'music' without understanding the mysterious settings it was describing.  Hmm.  At the moment therefore I have gone from "This is shit, terrible, shouldn't even be considered" ....   to   ...."What an interesting piece, now that I know what it's about...or not!"  So I must confess I was blasting it through my own personal ignorance of it's content.
I will listen again, why not, see if I can gain more insight into it.   0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)

Excellent, John!   :)  I had no idea it was about the ancient Mayan city, until a few minutes into listening to the piece.  I felt like there was an......awakening.....of....an ancient burial ground, or a crying of souls.   ??? ???

The work had a definite impact on me, and in a good way.  Very unique.  :)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 01, 2013, 04:48:10 PM

Wow..it's déjà vu all over again  :D ;)

Sarge

 :P
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 01, 2013, 04:56:50 PM
Hi John,

Well, I finally had a chance to hear Scelsi's Uaxuctum, and I can honestly say I enjoyed it quite a bit!  :)  Perhaps I was already bracing myself for music that was going to be quite 'different', and thus perhaps it did not shock me or surprise me as much as I thought it would.

Have to admit, I had my doubts prior to listening to the piece, and my expectations prior weren't high.  I can say I truly enjoyed the piece and it obviously exceeded my expectations.  :)

Unique, haunting, spiritual.  I didn't find it particularly scary or spooky, per se, but merely haunting, spiritual.  The fusion of percussive effects, with choral and brass blended quite well, at least to these laymen ears.  ;D

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but it was not unlike a mixture of Ligeti and early-modern Penderecki.

I would return and listen to this work again.  It would be quite an experience also to hear a live performance of this work.  I think it would up the 'powerfulness' of the piece big time!

Very unique.  I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts.  :)

Thanks for your feedback, Ray! I agree on the Ligeti and early Penderecki (my favorite period of Penderecki BTW) comparison. It's true this may not be to everyone's tastes, but I'm glad that you gave it a listen and shared your honest opinion as I am that Kyle did too. That's all we can do really. If we don't like something, it's not the end of the world. There's a lot of music I don't like and the same applies for all of us.

I'll also say this: Scelsi isn't a composer I would listen to on a regular basis. Not because I think he's a bad composer (quite the contrary actually), but his compositional voice is one of singularity and he's completely his own man and in many ways this can wear thin after awhile. His music makes some hefty demands on the listener that's for sure. This being said, I like keeping a composer like Scelsi in my collection for the fact that his music is different and quite fascinating to me. I mean I even have several recordings of Boulez's and Xenakis' music in my collection. I'm not going to get rid of it for the reason that I think this music does serve it's purpose: it pushes my mind into a completely different headspace. I look at Scelsi as an 'ambient' or 'textural' composer. It's not so much about conveying a dramatic narrative, but rather painting a sonic picture. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, this is the conclusion I've come to in my own listening, but everyone's ears are different and I certainly respect that.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 08, 2013, 05:30:58 AM
Group Hug ;)

there there

You recovered from the group hug yet over there, little fella?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Uatu on September 01, 2015, 04:16:32 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JElg5LpzqO4/VeYU0HgSV4I/AAAAAAAAJUM/-_9FpLT7-iE/s320/Scelsi.png)
I recently went through a big Scelsi jag.  I first heard him over 20 years ago and based on just 1 CD I stupidly wrote him off.  Now, after having access to much more of his works I have really turned around.  Some great stuff.  I don't like everything, but there is quite alot that I do like.  Anyways, here's my one-off reference post on Scelsi...

Giacinto Scelsi's Works (in a Nutshell)
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html (http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 01, 2015, 05:21:33 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JElg5LpzqO4/VeYU0HgSV4I/AAAAAAAAJUM/-_9FpLT7-iE/s320/Scelsi.png)
I recently went through a big Scelsi jag.  I first heard him over 20 years ago and based on just 1 CD I stupidly wrote him off.  Now, after having access to much more of his works I have really turned around.  Some great stuff.  I don't like everything, but there is quite alot that I do like.  Anyways, here's my one-off reference post on Scelsi...

Giacinto Scelsi's Works (in a Nutshell)
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html (http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html)

I enjoy Scelsi, but, as I've wrote before, not as an everyday kind of listen. I'm constantly in awe over the sounds he can pull from a small group of instrumentalists and then there's the way he can handle a large orchestra. Completely unreal! He was always true to his inner voice as a composer. I LOVE those works he wrote for voices and orchestra like Uaxuctum, Pfhat 'A flash... and the sky opened!', and Konx-Om-Pax. These are truly mesmerizing works that haunt a listener long after they've finished. Like I said, I really enjoy a lot of his music, but only in smaller doses.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988) Y EYE NO LIKE HIS PIANO MUSIC?
Post by: snyprrr on September 23, 2016, 04:49:16 PM
Why don't I like his Piano Music?

I have the two earlier works, the '5' something and the other '5' or so, on that Accord disc. But, then, all those 'Suites',... eh,... either I haven't heard the correct performer, in the correct acoustic,... I don't know... many varied and different Pianists have recorded some, including Schleiermacher. Now, I'm familiar with his ability to consistently hit a nice "blooplonk" sound with his touch and the MDG acoustics coming together in that oh so special way (in Feldman and Cage, at least). There are many others.

What say ye? (please don't limit to SS)

Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988) Y EYE NO LIKE HIS PIANO MUSIC?
Post by: snyprrr on September 26, 2016, 05:29:50 AM
Why don't I like his Piano Music?

I have the two earlier works, the '5' something and the other '5' or so, on that Accord disc. But, then, all those 'Suites',... eh,... either I haven't heard the correct performer, in the correct acoustic,... I don't know... many varied and different Pianists have recorded some, including Schleiermacher. Now, I'm familiar with his ability to consistently hit a nice "blooplonk" sound with his touch and the MDG acoustics coming together in that oh so special way (in Feldman and Cage, at least). There are many others.

What say ye? (please don't limit to SS)

anyone?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: arpeggio on September 26, 2016, 06:20:37 AM
There is a blockage in the vegafinati nerve of the inner ear?  ;)

I had surgery to correct it.  I can now get Xanakis but can no longer tolerate Bach.  :(
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: nathanb on September 26, 2016, 06:48:12 AM
I think his piano music is absolutely fascinating. I have the four Mode discs, the KAIROS disc, and the Sub Rosa disc, as far as that stuff goes. Most composers' "early styles" are really derivative, so the odd thing about Scelsi is that he only went from "his own unique style" to "his own even-more-unique style". It's just strange to think of this stuff being around in the '40s, and yet he did a complete 180 from there. You simply can't apply the same listening principles with early vs. late Scelsi. Try the KAIROS disc at the least, snyprrr.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 26, 2016, 07:31:59 AM
anyone?

You really expect anyone else to hazard a guess why you don't like something?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on September 27, 2016, 07:24:08 AM
You really expect anyone else to hazard a guess why you don't like something?

Sure, if there's someone out there who has microscopically gone over a good portion of the extant issues and analyzed the 7 Points of Recorded Music in accordance with the Laws of Good Taste and divided this by the Social Quotient "Q". Easy peasy, Karl! ;) Perhaps no one likes his Piano Music?... which, of course, would make me right, again. ::)

It never does get tiresome...being right all the time...













whoops... excuse me there!! ???


did you just Delete that Mark?/a3
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 27, 2016, 05:35:56 PM
I've been getting fascinated by his work a lot recently, all in coincidence. I've heard some of his most notable works, what are your big recommendations?  :)

Just check out this set:



It's absolutely magnificent. You'll thank me later. ;)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: North Star on September 28, 2016, 12:45:40 AM
I've been getting fascinated by his work a lot recently, all in coincidence. I've heard some of his most notable works, what are your big recommendations?  :)
Along with the set John mentions above, I'd recommend this one.



https://www.youtube.com/v/cG-VxokvJFk    https://www.youtube.com/v/8pMLuZoOmqU
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on September 29, 2016, 08:20:41 AM
I would also recommend the quartets (except for #1 which is a weird transitional piece). Scelsi's improvisational writing and slow harmonic changes translate particularly well to the medium, with the quartet for the most part treated as a single instrument able to play very dense harmonies.



The above is the latest incarnation of the only complete set of the quartets (which, since it was done by the Ardittis, is eminently recommendable).
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: snyprrr on December 30, 2016, 02:02:26 PM
(http://www.soundlivetokyo.com/2015/image/scelsi_firma_5.png)

1) The Accord Orchestral Box

2) The Forlane CD of 'Music for String Orchestra' (which I recommend over the ECM disc)

3) The SQs in the original Salabert Box, oh so historic!!

3) The INA, Memoire Viva disc of perfect fill-ups

4) Accord disc with 'Elegia per Ty'

5) Accord disc with 'Xynobis'

6)

7)


There, The Seven Pillars of Scelsi. What I have there pretty much covers it for me. Lately, I can only listen to some of the selected Orchestral Works, the Ensemble and String Works, and maybe a couple of the SQs. His solo writing for winds leaves me cold for the most part. The 2e2m disc, which actually has a lot of stuff on it, was a disappointment to me.

His Piano Music has not yet touched me, maybe it's the Pianists? I saw that Schleiermacher has a disc, and the MDG engineers always do sooomething interesting with him. His Vocal Music is only for people who consider Xenakis's singing too conservative, oy vey!!

I say, don't go too whole-hog with Scelsi, get that First Choice Box and marinate in that for a while. With the Forlane disc, you then have all of his larger output, minus 'Kya' and 'Pranam' (on the INA disc).


His "guitar piece" is what makes me suspicious of him, -though, -it WAS the '60s. But, that piece seems to reveal some limitations... nevermind, I didn't say anything........
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 22, 2017, 05:13:14 PM
I'm riding the Scelsi train  8)

Resistance was futile  0:)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: nodogen on August 03, 2017, 04:44:54 AM
DOG
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)WARNING: Religious Ranting Included As Bonus! ;)
Post by: snyprrr on August 03, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
I'm riding the Scelsi train  8)

GOD

I may very well be a Scelsian in a matter of months, who knows?  :laugh:

Well, ultimately, there IS a question: does God "sound" more like Scelsi, or Bach? I know it seems as though Scelsi may have the upper hand, but, keep in mind that his seeems to be the more naturalistic, organic, "non-engineered" process, whereas Bach clearly comes from A Knowing, Conscious, Intelligent Meta-Mind (if you will), organizing hierarchies...

though, perhaps, both Composers will "start to sound the same" after a while?...

lol, where am I going with this?...


Both Composers were utilizing the Trinitarian Mind (left hemisphere+right hemisphere+mind) which was created by the Trinitarian matter (neutron+proton+electron), yet, they come to different terms... Bach obviously illuminates Trinitarian Doctrine, whereas one might have to sift through Scelsi to find out how the Three Become One...

I dunno... mm?...

Xenakis comes almost the closest to "sounding like God", since he uses His math. The only problem is that, then, Xenakis doesn't give God the credit... wait... for... IX takes a lot of Igor, including the sort of human-sounding "wailing of the soul" double basses which one hears at the beginning of both IS's 'Requiem Canticles' and IX's 'Sea-Change'. But, at least with IX, this suffering only covers the "creation"... with Bach, at least, we know that he also covers the "Creator"...

All "Naturalistic" Composers are missing a "something"? What is it? If we already like their music "without Creator", how much more Glorious would Xenakis have sounded if he also gave credence to an All Knowing-Always Present-All Powerful Creator?

Xenakis probably thought HE was "The Composer", whereas, Scelsi at least seems to make it known that he is only, as IS would say, a "vessel".

Iannis, WHO Created the numbers you loved so much? If the Universe is RandomlyCreated, why then is the World of Numbers so Perfect?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)WARNING: Religious Ranting Included As Bonus! ;)
Post by: Mahlerian on August 03, 2017, 08:35:02 AM
Iannis, WHO Created the numbers you loved so much? If the Universe is RandomlyCreated, why then is the World of Numbers so Perfect?

Because numbers are an idealized abstraction?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)WARNING: Religious Ranting Included As Bonus! ;)
Post by: snyprrr on August 03, 2017, 07:36:41 PM
Because numbers are an idealized abstraction?

oy vey, will I get no rest? :laugh:
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on January 28, 2020, 06:03:40 PM
Le premier mouvement de l'immobile, a 2018 documentary on Scelsi is available on Arte for about a month or so:

https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/072442-000-A/giacinto-scelsi-le-premier-mouvement-de-l-immobile/
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 18, 2020, 12:08:54 AM
Scelsi used to improvise at the piano, tape it, and get other people to write it up.

Are there any recordings of Scelsi playing?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on April 18, 2020, 02:51:32 AM
Scelsi used to improvise at the piano, tape it, and get other people to write it up.

Are there any recordings of Scelsi playing?
Only four minutes or so, but there's a cpo disc that ends with Scelsi and Carin Levine in an improvised piano/flute duo.

Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 18, 2020, 08:38:43 AM
Thanks, I know the recordings of the suites exist, so I'm surprised that they're not available to hear.

Here's the 7th suite, which as far as I know, has never been recorded.

https://vimeo.com/199018587

(He still hadn't found his own voice. This reminds me of Hindemith, and indeed it seems less interesting than the 6th suite -- maybe that's why it's been ignored.)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 19, 2020, 04:17:16 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDHPbbyfoMN_4DNP3T48laxEJ4novqJfv1CfiFKr3q7m2zy8_pKjcL_txEcQ&s)

Although it’s not obvious, I think this has Johan Bossers playing Suite 11, Gianconto’s  final piano suite. It is available on streaming platforms. It’s often physical, in the sense that you are aware of the muscles and joints of the pianist, but I wouldn’t want to give the impression that it’s brutal, quite the opposite. Sound is OK, a bit 2D, a bit monochromatic. But I’m not complaining.

Over the past couple of days listening to Scelsi piano suites, the composer who keep popping into my head is Messiaen! It years since I last listened to him!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: T. D. on April 19, 2020, 04:22:58 AM
Hmm. To date I've more or less disregarded Scelsi's piano music. Heard a couple of piano suite discs years ago which made no impact, and piano doesn't seem suited to the timbral and microtonal aspects I enjoy in many of his other works. Will have to reinvestigate via streaming.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 19, 2020, 04:42:46 AM
Well put it like this, I’ve been completely hooked by Suites 8 to 11 over the past three days!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: T. D. on April 19, 2020, 06:50:25 AM
I just heard (Youtube)  Marianne Schroeder's rendition of Suite #10, and it's impressive (work and performance). Perhaps I gave up too soon. The old Accord recording of # 8 and 9 by Werner Baertschi failed to click back in the distant past.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 19, 2020, 08:32:01 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81P92myQ0VL._SS500_.jpg)

According to wiki (why is there no affordable book on Scelsi?)

Quote
His [Scelsi's] work was a source of inspiration to Ennio Morricone's Gruppo di Improvvisazione di Nuova Consonanza

The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!


I'm starting to see that there's a closer relationship between the c20 avant garde in Europe and America than I'd realised, in the U S Cage etc, we all know about them. In the Uk with Cardew, and now in Italy (where Cardew lived for a while) with . . . Ennio Morricone and Scelsi.

Actually, I bet that wiki is a mistake and it's Franco Evangelisti rather than Ennio Morricone.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: not edward on April 19, 2020, 10:13:35 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81P92myQ0VL._SS500_.jpg)

According to wiki (why is there no affordable book on Scelsi?)

The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!


I'm starting to see that there's a closer relationship between the c20 avant garde in Europe and America than I'd realised, in the U S Cage etc, we all know about them. In the Uk with Cardew, and now in Italy (where Cardew lived for a while) with . . . Ennio Morricone and Scelsi.

Actually, I bet that wiki is a mistake and it's Franco Evangelisti rather than Ennio Morricone.
Nope, Morricone was a mainstay of the group (& was definitely a more complex figure than his film scores might indicate).

More avant-garde links: the Rome-based group Musica Elettronica Viva was founded by (amongst others) Fred Rzewski and Alvin Curran.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: petrarch on April 19, 2020, 11:38:18 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81P92myQ0VL._SS500_.jpg)

The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!

This is worthwhile watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUXuZoAMPA0

It was part of the special edition of the Azioni/Reazioni box on Die Schachtel, but I am glad to see it widely available.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: T. D. on April 19, 2020, 03:31:08 PM
...

More avant-garde links: the Rome-based group Musica Elettronica Viva was founded by (amongst others) Fred Rzewski and Alvin Curran.

Others including (RIP) the recently deceased Richard Teitelbaum.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/09/831173527/richard-teitelbaum-experimentalist-with-an-earth-spanning-ear-dead-at-80 (https://www.npr.org/2020/04/09/831173527/richard-teitelbaum-experimentalist-with-an-earth-spanning-ear-dead-at-80)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: steve ridgway on April 20, 2020, 07:47:48 AM
Well put it like this, I’ve been completely hooked by Suites 8 to 11 over the past three days!

The piano music doesn’t grab me like the orchestral works and I haven’t listened to much of it.  Suite 8 sounds OK in places though, maybe it’ll grow on me.

(https://img.discogs.com/tYS0aGHwHxxqr05th-tY1ChkiVk=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1371866-1466934132-6941.jpeg.jpg)

On the other hand I’m finding Cinque Incantesimi, Quattro Illustrazioni and Krishna E Radha quite listenable now, can play this album with the intermixed flute pieces all the way through.

(https://img.discogs.com/jZbylFo36Da64pQmv7ig8rNUYVI=/fit-in/600x602/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1089856-1520963975-9460.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: T. D. on April 22, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
Revisited this after discovering to my surprise that I still own it:
(https://img.discogs.com/Q4OkmQJvJ6PAh1hURzZXQbftm-4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-1135963-1283115466.jpeg.jpg)
Enjoyed Suite 8 more than I did in the past (going back over 20 years), though I still find it uneven (some movements sounded motoric or clangorous in places). I prefer Suites 9 and 10, both of which are highly interesting. I'll no longer dismiss Scelsi's piano music, but will continue to listen to other instruments/ensembles more often.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 22, 2020, 10:51:35 PM
Revisited this after discovering to my surprise that I still own it:
(https://img.discogs.com/Q4OkmQJvJ6PAh1hURzZXQbftm-4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-1135963-1283115466.jpeg.jpg)
Enjoyed Suite 8 more than I did in the past (going back over 20 years), though I still find it uneven (some movements sounded motoric or clangorous in places). I prefer Suites 9 and 10, both of which are highly interesting. I'll no longer dismiss Scelsi's piano music, but will continue to listen to other instruments/ensembles more often.

Try 9 when you’re in the mood. 9 is the one which some people dislike because it’s not visceral, it’s peaceful.
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 22, 2020, 10:51:58 PM
Has anyone explored the divertimenti?
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 24, 2020, 05:51:39 AM
I've started to explore the cello trilogy "Ages of Man" -- Triphon, Ditthome and Ygghur.

I just couldn't resist posting the score of Ygghur

(https://www.stretta-music.com/media/images/425/294425_detail-03.jpg)

Four strings, four staves, not even Bach wrote such contrapuntal music for a cello.

The first recording I think was made by Frances Maria Uitti, and she's repeated one of them for ECM. She studied the music with the composer. Anyway, that's the one I'm listening to today. But there are plenty of others.

(https://img.discogs.com/cfVg5egeIuENyYeGWn6E8HGYUD8=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4240072-1359422134-7405.jpeg.jpg)

The first part of Triphon is for a prepared cello -- all sorts of metal things attached to the strings to make a buzzing sound. And the music is intense to the point of being brutal, Scelsi takes no prisoners. The first time I heard it, and even the second, I thought my speakers had broken!
Title: Re: Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)
Post by: Mandryka on April 24, 2020, 06:00:06 AM
Oh and another thing, the second quartet -- which is the first quartet in Scelsi's own voice. As far as I know only Arditti and Quarteto d'archi di Torino  have dared record it, so I was pleased to find this live one on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/v/nYv86ZyBw-o

The uploader of that says that Scelsi wrote

Quote
He writes:
"My music is neither this nor that, it is not twelve-tone, it is not puntilista, it is not minimalist ... What then? Do not know. Notes, the notes are not that coatings, clothes. But what what's inside is generally more interesting, no? The sound is spherical, is round. Instead you listen to him always as duration and height.'s not good. Everything has a spherical center: you can scientifically prove. need to get to the heart sound: it is only aloora musicians, otherwise you are just craftsmen. A craftsman of music is worthy of respect, but it is not a real musician or a true artist. [...] You have no idea what a sound ! There are counterpoints (if you want), there are mismatches of different timbres, harmonics that produce effects that are different, that not only come from the sound, but who come to the center of the sound, and there are also divergent movements and concentric . It then becomes very large, it becomes a part of the cosmos. minimum even if there is everything inside. [...] a note arguing for a long time it becomes large, so large that it feels more and more harmony and it will expands to ' inside, the sound surrounds you. I assure you that is a different story: the sound contains an entire universe, with overtones that never feel. The sound fills the place where you are, you rings, you can swim in it. [ ...] When you enter into a sound it is wrapped, you become part of the sound, little by little it is swallowed and you do not need another sound. [...] Everything is in there, the whole universe fills the space, all possible sounds are contained in it

But where did he write it?

I'm getting irritated by the dearth of Scelsi studies available to me. I've just taken the plunge and ordered this

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41QKBKVKH1L._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Giacinto-Scelsi-aujourdhui-Pierre-Castanet/dp/2916738010