i erroneously posted on the terry riley thread.
G Song is by Young.
he is also the father of a 60min string trio based on the hum of high tension wires.
and he used to look like james dean. or elvis....
Here's a (very old) article
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~chobbs/smithyoung.html
But for stuff from the horse's mouth, go to
http://www.melafoundation.org/lmy.htm
I'll bite.
I find him to be one of the most "engaging" of the minimalists, but getting a hold of his material is a bear. He charges a fortune for his music and it's hard to find. I was lucky enough to snap up a couple of his discs before the prices for used copies went into the stratosphere.
First, I think he's probably due credit of being the first minimalist, from the accounts I read. One thing that runs across his work is an emphasis on natural tempered scales and a rejection of the equal-tempered scales. There is some validity in this-- a lot of drone-based music just doesn't work as well in equal tempered because the overtones aren't as rich. (One reason why classical Indian music doesn't work as well on equal-tempered instruments.)
The Well-Tuned Piano is a pretty mind bending work-- It's about 5 hours (depending on the performance) of solo piano on a specially tuned piano that supposedly kept a team of engineers VERY busy to keep it tuned properly. Used copies on Amazon run start at $2000!.
Frankly, I don't feel the need to listen to the whole thing in a row, but it really does bend your mind so that it will keep playing in your head for hours.
I've have Just Stompin with the Forever Bad Blues Band-- a 120 minute blues jam with microtonal instruments. It's a great album to work to, it makes you not want to be interrupted. The opening 20 minutes is really profound, slowly unfolding, and generating great tension. After that, however, it becomes a wailing fusion fest (with a 6 on 4 rhythm) that is fun, and hypnotic, but a bit of a let down. Actually, the dullest part is the keyboard "solo" he plays, but the overtones it generates are pretty cool.
At one point I also got a cassette dub of a Dream Syndicate session that he made with John Cale (before the Velvet Undergrand) and Angus McLise (one of the weirdest characters in 60's music) I must admit the quality is terrible, and I tried to listen to it with a 103.9 degree fever, and I've been afraid to give it another listen. I believe there is a cd release, but it's not officially sanctioned, and the sound is supposed to be bed. . It's pretty spooky stuff, but it's frustrating that Young hasn't wanted to release the originals.
I'm curious about his other work-- but not enough to shell out serveral hundred dollars for a disc.
anyway-- your mileage may vary.
Quote
The Well-Tuned Piano is a pretty mind bending work-- It's about 5 hours (depending on the performance) of solo piano on a specially tuned piano that supposedly kept a team of engineers VERY busy to keep it tuned properly. Used copies on Amazon run start at $2000!.
Now it says it's been discontinued.
Doing a search for him on Amazon, you see maybe 3 or 4 CDs that you can buy with his music- but they're all just additional tracks on CDs that include other minimalists. Pretty odd for one of the founding fathers of minimalism, especially when you think that's it's a genre that produced Philip Glass, who has gone on to write for tons of movies that tons of people have seen, not to mention everything else.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 12, 2009, 08:52:04 PM
i erroneously posted on the terry riley thread.
G Song is by Young.
Maybe Young wrote a G Song too, but Riley certainly did. I have the CD in front of me right now!
maybe the "G Song" i was thinking about was i fact the "Forever Bad Blues Band" 2-cd mentioned earlier. the description sounds exactly like what i had.
just goes to show i have difficulty separating Riley and Young.
i only listened two works from la monte young;
trio for strings (1958)
the tamburads of pandit pran nath(1999)
specially second work very interesting.
We are lucky to have the Well-Tuned Piano available as a free podcast on something called "No Such Program." I downloaded it via itunes. I finally got through all of it. I couldn't try all at once but I went with it on my commutes this week. I think this is strikingly beautiful music. I was moved, enthralled, elevated, enlivened, entranced, etc. It did a lot for me. Is this really all one guy with two hands? Sometimes I'm thinking there is a tape or something. Maybe not. Anyway, what else to say? I dig it!
Quote from: milk on May 13, 2014, 03:25:49 AM
We are lucky to have the Well-Tuned Piano available as a free podcast on something called "No Such Program." I downloaded it via itunes. I finally got through all of it. I couldn't try all at once but I went with it on my commutes this week. I think this is strikingly beautiful music. I was moved, enthralled, elevated, enlivened, entranced, etc. It did a lot for me. Is this really all one guy with two hands? Sometimes I'm thinking there is a tape or something. Maybe not. Anyway, what else to say? I dig it!
Good for you! Theres a DVD (out of print of course) of the last performance. More than six hours, it looks like it's been removed from utube.
Quote from: 7/4 on May 13, 2014, 04:22:10 AM
Good for you! Theres a DVD (out of print of course) of the last performance. More than six hours, it looks like it's been removed from utube.
I'm just delighted by this music. I wanted to compare it to Riley's Albion but now that's washed away and I'll have to try it again to see. But my impression is that Albion is more lyrical and Young more abstract. But I have to check. I love them both anyway but the Young piece amazed me.
Quote from: milk on May 13, 2014, 05:10:16 AM
I'm just delighted by this music. I wanted to compare it to Riley's Albion but now that's washed away and I'll have to try it again to see. But my impression is that Albion is more lyrical and Young more abstract. But I have to check. I love them both anyway but the Young piece amazed me.
If you like this music (as I do), then try also Charlemagne Palestine. And there's Morton Feldman too.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 14, 2014, 11:47:03 AM
If you like this music (as I do), then try also Charlemagne Palestine. And there's Morton Feldman too.
Feldman is my favorite composer these days. I just got his book "Give My Regards to 8th St!" Looking forward to it! Never heard of Palestine (as a person). Thanks! I'll check it out!
I'd never heard of Charlemagne Palestine until his music started to get reissued for the first time on CD. I know he was a Pandit Pran Nath student, but he never got mentioned in relation to Le Monte Young or Terry Riley. He must have not been part of the gang.
His piano music is beautiful. I'm pretty sure he's playing in 12 tone equal temperament, but he plays one thing for a long period of time and the overtones ring out.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 14, 2014, 11:47:03 AM
If you like this music (as I do), then try also Charlemagne Palestine. And there's Morton Feldman too.
Quote from: 7/4 on May 15, 2014, 08:02:44 AM
I'd never heard of Charlemagne Palestine until his music started to get reissued for the first time on CD. I know he was a Pandit Pran Nath student, but he never got mentioned in relation to Le Monte Young or Terry Riley. He must have not been part of the gang.
His piano music is beautiful. I'm pretty sure he's playing in 12 tone equal temperament, but he plays one thing for a long period of time and the overtones ring out.
I purchased his
Strumming Music for Piano, Harpsichord and Strings Ensemble today, and it is really good. Thank you. At first, I thought it was too repetitive, but as I kept listening to it, it was getting better and better, and I came to like the sound so much. All of the 3 works are beautiful, but the piano work is especially impressive. At certain moments, it reminded me of Reich's
Music For 18 Musicians.
Quote from: torut on May 15, 2014, 05:53:29 PM
I purchased his Strumming Music for Piano, Harpsichord and Strings Ensemble today, and it is really good. Thank you. At first, I thought it was too repetitive, but as I kept listening to it, it was getting better and better, and I came to like the sound so much. All of the 3 works are beautiful, but the piano work is especially impressive. At certain moments, it reminded me of Reich's Music For 18 Musicians.
Ah, that's the one I put on my list. Great. Then I will get it.
LaMonte Young's Junction?
His name is La Monte. Seems trivial, but he doesn't think it is.
How about a thread title that makes sense like La Monte Young's Clouds. He calls those big sections where he's playing a chord in the WTP and the sum & difference tones are ringing out clouds.
La Monte Young's Ratio?
Charlemagne Palestine's Schlingen-Blängen is also nice. It is an organ work of sustained notes with subtle changes of sounds by operating stops. There is almost no movement.
I am listening to La Monte Young's Trio for Strings. A mp3 of 1958 performance is available here (http://rootstrata.com/rootblog/?p=66). It is a sequence of long tones and silences. According to Wikipedia, there are several versions of the work. Has anyone heard these?
Trio for Strings (1958), violin, viola, cello;
Trio for Strings (1983) Versions for string quartet, string orchestra, and violin, viola, cello, bass;
Trio for Strings, trio basso version (1984), viola, cello, bass;
Trio for Strings, sextet version (1984);
Trio for Strings, String Octet Version (1984), 2 violins, 2 violas, 2 cellos, 2 basses;
Trio for Strings Postlude from The Subsequent Dreams of China (c. 1984), bowed strings;
Trio for Strings (1958) Just Intonation Version (1984-2001-2005), 2 cellos, 2 violins, 2 violas;
Quote from: 7/4 on May 16, 2014, 04:43:40 AM
LaMonte Young's Junction?
His name is La Monte. Seems trivial, but he doesn't think it is.
How about a thread title that makes sense like La Monte Young's Clouds. He calls those big sections where he's playing a chord in the WTP and the sum & difference tones are ringing out clouds.
I was thinking like Apache Junction in Arizona- desert music- that makes sense! I'm not completely sold either,... but 'Ratio'? Something about the desert though... 'Cactus'?
I guess that means Young's modulus (modulus of longitudinal elasticity). I believe I learned it at school but have forgotten the definition completely.
Listening to Young's SQ On Remembering A Naiad (1956) that was composed before Trio for Strings (1958). It is a nice short piece, more like a typical avant-garde composition, not drones.
Is there any box set containing Young's major chamber works?
Quote from: torut on May 16, 2014, 05:06:20 PM
I guess that means Young's modulus (modulus of longitudinal elasticity). I believe I learned it at school but have forgotten the definition completely.
Listening to Young's SQ On Remembering A Naiad (1956) that was composed before Trio for Strings (1958). It is a nice short piece, more like a typical avant-garde composition, not drones.
Is there any box set containing Young's major chamber works?
No. He's not very good at making his music available to be heard. Everything is out of print.
I performed Death Chant with my students on Thursday.
Only one gamut.
(http://www.fondazionebonotto.org/admin/download/opere/0406e.jpg)
Is it La Monte Young's autograph? Death Chant I heard on youtube sounded like Buddhist priests' chant. What was the reaction of the students?
Quote from: Dax on May 18, 2014, 10:10:22 AM
(http://www.fondazionebonotto.org/admin/download/opere/0406e.jpg)
That's pretty cool. Is that an original manuscript?
More likely a photocopy - but in the composer's writing. It dates from 1961 and is a bit different from the rest of his work. The short extract on YouTube gives a good idea: it's a good idea to use a cymbal (or whatever) instead of thigh slaps demanded by the composer. I added some bass instruments (brass, keyboards, bass guitar), partly because they were already there. The students were intending to perform Cornelius Cardew's The Great Learning Paragraph 3 (for lots of voices and bass instruments) but not enough singers turned up to the rehearsal so we rehearsed Death Chant instead and performed it the next day for 20 minutes on a landing and stairway of a resonant building.
The entire set of The Well-Tuned Piano was uploaded on youtube recently.
https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM
I listened to it through (with some breaks) for the first time. Truly a great work! I felt that everything I like of minimal/microtonal music is included in it. I believe it is the recording of the 1981 performance released in 1987.
Quote from: torut on August 23, 2014, 09:49:37 PM
The entire set of The Well-Tuned Piano was uploaded on youtube recently.
https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM
I listened to it through (with some breaks) for the first time. Truly a great work! I felt that everything I like of minimal/microtonal music is included in it. I believe it is the recording of the 1981 performance released in 1987.
I found the whole thing available for free download on a podcast called "No Such Program." I assume it's still there. I agree. I love this piece. It's so easy to lose oneself in it. It shimmers and it glows. It's truly mesmerizing. The duration of the one I have is 6:26.
Quote from: milk on August 23, 2014, 11:59:05 PM
I found the whole thing available for free download on a podcast called "No Such Program." I assume it's still there. I agree. I love this piece. It's so easy to lose oneself in it. It shimmers and it glows. It's truly mesmerizing. The duration of the one I have is 6:26.
Thank you, I found it (http://radiovalencia.fm/nosuchprogram/2012/05/10/no-such-program-2-8-1-the-well-tuned-piano-10-may-2012/). It is the 1987 performance, originally released on DVD.
Quote from: torut on August 24, 2014, 07:39:28 AM
Thank you, I found it (http://radiovalencia.fm/nosuchprogram/2012/05/10/no-such-program-2-8-1-the-well-tuned-piano-10-may-2012/). It is the 1987 performance, originally released on DVD.
Glad you did. I'm curious about what else Young has done. His stuff is sort of hard to get, isn't it? Anyway, Riley's New Harp of Albion is good too but the Well Tuned piano really hooked me. It's magical.
Has anyone posted this yet? Interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw
Quote from: milk on August 24, 2014, 08:27:52 AM
Glad you did. I'm curious about what else Young has done. His stuff is sort of hard to get, isn't it? Anyway, Riley's New Harp of Albion is good too but the Well Tuned piano really hooked me. It's magical.
Yes, it is difficult to find his music. The only recording of Young's work I have is
Five Small Pieces for String Quartet: On Remembering a Naiad in Arditti Quartet's CD
USA. It is an early atonal piece composed in 1956, in the style of European avant garde.
I am looking for good recordings of
Four Dreams of China and
Trio for Strings. The audio qualities of the ones available on Internet are not so good.
Quote from: milk on August 24, 2014, 08:40:30 AM
Has anyone posted this yet? Interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.
Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Dotyhttp://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html)
It was a very good read. Since it was for
1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for
The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.
DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.
Quote from: torut on September 04, 2014, 06:37:04 PM
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.
Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Doty
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html)
It was a very good read. Since it was for 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.
DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.
The 5% of this that I understand is interesting. The comparison between Partch and Young helps enormously. Funny, though, I realize that when I was playing with those Partch instruments, I might have been actually trying to do something "vertical" with them. One can certainly see how Partch is pretty much linear. I guess this is what astounds me and mystifies me about Young's music. It just sort of hangs there like a slowly moving cloud. You can get lost in the static complexity of it.
Quote from: milk on September 04, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
The 5% of this that I understand is interesting. The comparison between Partch and Young helps enormously. Funny, though, I realize that when I was playing with those Partch instruments, I might have been actually trying to do something "vertical" with them. One can certainly see how Partch is pretty much linear. I guess this is what astounds me and mystifies me about Young's music. It just sort of hangs there like a slowly moving cloud. You can get lost in the static complexity of it.
Young said that sustaining long notes is very important. The "static complexity" is very well put. He said
"My music, of course, may, by comparison to some of these elaborate, melodic approaches, seem simple to some people. I don't think it's simple. I really think my music is extremely complex. But it may appear simple to someone. My music offers the possibility, because of the way I present it and perform it, myself and the groups I put together, of being really very in tune."The tuning of
The Well-Tuned Piano is well explained here: http://www.kylegann.com/wtp.html (http://www.kylegann.com/wtp.html)
The principal of the tuning is very simple. Only the tones of frequencies that are multiple of 3 and 7 (divided by powers of 2 in order to fit them into an octave) are used. (3
i7
j/2
k where i,j,k are 0,1,2,3,...) Not only major/minor third but also major/minor sixth are avoided. (No tones around 300, 400, 800 or 900 cents.)
Quote from: torut on September 04, 2014, 06:37:04 PM
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.
Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Doty
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html)
It was a very good read. Since it was for 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.
DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.
He didn't use any five limit intervals in the WTP tuning, the 3rds being 5/4 & 6/5. Instead, the WTP tuning is full of seven limit 3rds like 7/6 & 9/7.
Quote from: 7/4 on September 07, 2014, 04:16:59 AM
He didn't use any five limit intervals in the WTP tuning, the 3rds being 5/4 & 6/5. Instead, the WTP tuning is full of seven limit 3rds like 7/6 & 9/7.
Are 7/6 & 9/7 used in the WTP? They are not in the Gann's table. The closest ones are 147/128 (7*7*3/2
7) and 1323/1024 (7*7*3*3*3/2
10). But I cannot tell by ear whether the pitches are used or not.
By the way, I realize that your username might mean the pure minor seventh? I thought it was seven-four time. :)
Quote from: torut on September 07, 2014, 07:39:47 AM
Are 7/6 & 9/7 used in the WTP? They are not in the Gann's table. The closest ones are 147/128 (7*7*3/27) and 1323/1024 (7*7*3*3*3/210). But I cannot tell by ear whether the pitches are used or not.
By the way, I realize that your username might mean the pure minor seventh? I thought it was seven-four time. :)
Lot's of people think that's a time signature!
The WTP tuning is based on the third and seventh harmonics.
7/6 is the distance between the seventh and sixth harmonic. There's six in the WTP tuning.
9/7 is the distance between the ninth and seventh harmonic. There's four in the WTP tuning.
Quote from: 7/4 on September 07, 2014, 08:08:22 AM
Lot's of people think that's a time signature!
The WTP tuning is based on the third and seventh harmonics.
7/6 is the distance between the seventh and sixth harmonic. There's six in the WTP tuning.
9/7 is the distance between the ninth and seventh harmonic. There's four in the WTP tuning.
I believe I understood it, Thank you!
An interpretation of La Monte Young's The Tortoise, his Dreams and Journeys by Rhys Chatham.
At SOUFFLE CONTINU, Paris, on February 19th, 2010.
https://www.youtube.com/v/GQ_26kxP6Do
I am not a big fan of Chatham's rock pieces for electric guitars, but I like this performance a lot.
The Theatre of Eternal Music - Dream House 78'17'' (full)
https://www.youtube.com/v/iezxej1S52E
La Monte Young - voice, sine waves
Marian Zazeela - voice
Jon Hassell - trumpet
Garrett List - trombone
Just started listening to it. Mesmerizing.
Since The Well-Tuned Piano has gotten so rare and pricey, here's a good alternative: Terry Riley's The Harp of New Albion. I see the works as being similar in that they both used alternately-tuned pianos.
Quote from: Foomsbah on October 07, 2016, 12:26:07 PM
Since The Well-Tuned Piano has gotten so rare and pricey, here's a good alternative: Terry Riley's The Harp of New Albion. I see the works as being similar in that they both used alternately-tuned pianos.
True, but they're different tunings. La Monte's piano was modified, each key has only one string.
There is a free recording of WTP available as a podcast. It's called "no such program." I was able to download this podcast as an MP3. Not the best format I know. But I listen to it frequently.
The Well-Tuned Piano DVD has become available.
http://melafoundation.org/TWTP2018.html
MELA Foundation and Just Dreams recordings are rereleasing a new deluxe DVD edition of The Well-Tuned Piano in The Magenta Lights.
Young's continuous 6 hour-24 minute performance of his masterpiece is now back in print for the first time since 2001. We are happy to announce that this edition contains a 52-page booklet, which includes La Monte and Marian's essays on their works and a major essay by their senior disciple Jung Hee Choi. For the first time in these notes, Jung Hee is laying out the tuning for all to understand the underlying workings of this masterpiece.
(https://7fcaa351d4-custmedia.vresp.com/00125b39a0/TWTP%20DVD%20Annoucement%202.jpg)