GMG Classical Music Forum

Ok, this feels weird, asking for recommended recordings.  One of the problems is that works are SO over-recorded these days that it's difficult to sort out something suitable.  Even if I go up the library I probly wouldn't find half what's available.  So please could you let me know any well-recommended versions. 

Is Abbado any good?  Bernstein?   It doesn't have to be a recent recording but a good performance.

Thanks.

My favorite is Bertini. Marvelous warm sensual playing and a deep rich sound. You can't go wrong.

I've not heard Bertini, or the highly touted Gielen, but it seems to me that there are a lot of Mahler 7s out there that merit recommendation. I grew up on Kubelik (and still like it greatly), but I certainly wouldn't want to be without Abbado's lucid Chicago account, Bernstein's intense Sony version, Zender's placing of the work in a 20th century context, Chailly's magical reading with the Concertgebouw, Scherchen's demonic (and sometimes chaotic) Toronto version, or the constantly insightful Kondrashin I've discovered recently.

I'd think any of Kubelik, CSO/Abbado, NYPO/Bernstein, Zender or Chailly would make a good starting-off point. No doubt other posters can add to these (or oppose them).

I have Solti's, it's perfect so i recommend that one. I've tried Tilson Thomas, but it was so horrible i couldn't enjoy it. Haven't heard anything else after that...

I'm not a big fan of Abbado. His Beethoven cycles are meh, but he made the best Mahler 7 recordings ever. His CSO recording owns Bernstein and you know what's even better? His recent Lucerne recording on DVD probably has the best technical playing of that symphony ever.

Lenny late DG cycle's 7th if you don't mind the Celibidachean tempi.

I recommand the Abbado 7th with BP, because that was the first recording that "spoke" to me, also it holds personal significance, because it might've been one of the earliest Mahler recordings i have heard. Other than that, my memory is a little fuzzy, but I can remember that Bertini 7th was quite well played.

Of the 6 or so recordings I own I always return to the Abbado CSO account. Haitink's live Christmass recording with Concertgebouw is also fine.

BTW: For a truly mysterious account of the Nachtmusiks, Sinopoli's Philharmonia is exceptional

enjoy  :)

ironically, stay far, far away from Boulez' Cleveland recording though. It's one of his really clinical (albeit boring) recordings he made...considering I'm a huge Boulez fan.

1) Bernstein/NYPO/Sony  (later DG version is slower)
2) Kondrashin/Melodiya  (like this better than the highly touted Tahra version)
3) Kubelik/Audite  (live version that tops the version in complete DG studio set)
4) Abbado/CSO/DG  (still Abbado's best 7th on CD, have not heard the new DVD Lucerne version)
5) Solti/CSO/London or
    Scherchen/Westminster

My recommendations:

Barbirolli 1960 (Hallé/BBCL)
Bertini 1991 (RSO-Köln/EMI)
Barenboim 2006 (SK. Berlin/Warner)
Boulez 1998 (Cleveland/DGG)

Quote from: MISHUGINA on December 16, 2007, 01:43:16 AM
ironically, stay far, far away from Boulez' Cleveland recording though. It's one of his really clinical (albeit boring) recordings he made...considering I'm a huge Boulez fan.

This makes me want to play one of my favorite recordings of one of my favorite Mahler symphonies, the under-appreciated 7th performed by Pierre Boulez and the glorious Cleveland Orchestra. 

To the OP: others I enjoy include Abbado/CSO, Chailly, Zender, Bertini, Kubelik, and even Lenny's NYPO outing. 

Solti I like.

Abbado I like maybe a hair's breadth more.

But it's Halasz's account on Naxos to which I keep returning. Something about the horns in the second movement just clinches it for me.

Most conductors get the first and last movement pretty much spot on. Few makes the middle 3 movements convincing. For example, the 2nd Nachtmusik, most conductors play it way too soft, too much like chamber music. I suppose they see a serenade and automatically think it should be all hush hush. Bertini plays this movement pretty much forte all the way and it really holds together well. Now it has weight, all the melodies stand out and is really an embarassment of riches.

As alternatives I like Barenboim/SB and Gielen on Hanssler.

The Solti 7th never did it for me. My top choices would be Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin (truly involved, living, breathing performance) and Kubelik/BRSO (a fine sense of phrase and a lilt that always keeps the proceedings interesting).

I have a soft spot for the Boulez/Cleveland recording...I saw his live performance of this piece in Cleveland at the same time as the recording and the live performance was thrilling and solid. The recording (done a few months later) captured most of that, so the "gaps" I can fill in w/ my memories.

Am currently listening to the Bernstein/NY recording.  He starts that 2nd movement slower than any I've heard.

The Solti recording is horrible. The whole cycle isn't that distinguished (apart from the very convincing 8th), but of all the recordings in it, the 7th is by far the worst. I hesitate to say things like that because I respect Solti's many achievements on record (and I also saw him live a number of times in Berlin and these concerts were usually very good and enjoyable), but he obviously didn't understand the music at all. His interpretation doesn't make any musical sense. He and the orchestra hack, slash, blare, honk and fart through the piece without any concept or musical line and not even technically that good (one of many low points is that complicated bass trombone solo halfway through the 1st movement which the player here simply can't play, it sounds like some animal regurgitating a smaller animal). That piece is just too complex and elusive for Solti's black-and-white approach. I wonder if they had ever played the piece before. It certainly does sound like they are sight reading.

The same orchestra made much more sense and music and sounds worlds better under Abbado's much more insightful and reflected direction a decade later. Interestingly, they had also recorded it under Levine in the meantime. That performance is much better than Solti's but it lacks the sense for color, texture, and the musical line that Abbado's has. The latter was for a long time my "reference" recording for this symphony. One of Abbado's great achievements as Kapellmeister here is that he actually manages to make the brass play musical lines instead of single notes one after the other and that he even manages to build up some multicolored layers where the CSO sections usually play against each other instead of together. I haven't heard his later BP recording yet, nor the one with the LFO.

I was bitterly disappointed by the Boulez recording with the Cleveland Orchestra. Probably because I had expected something very special from that team. But the recording is just a competently prepared playthrough without much character or atmoshpere. A whole lot like the cliché says a lot of Boulez' interpretations are, but many of them really aren't (including some outstanding ones he made with the CO, e.g. Le Sacre du Printemps or La Mer).

A rather special trip of discovery through this complex musical soundscape is Sinopoli's recording with the Philharmonia which brings out a lot of inner detail which some other conductors apparently haven't even discovered in the score yet. With a lot of readings, you wonder what is going on, this one makes you understand how this piece in particular foreshadowed a lot of the music of the Second Viennese School. It also has a very special half-lit but glowing quality in the treatment of the colors to it which is very apt for a mysterious nightly journey of discovery.

The Barenboim recording simply astonished me. Barenboim is not the kind of conductor who I would expect to make sense of this really complicated and sometimes apparently incoherent score. He is often content to make everything sound nice and maybe a little serious. But he totally does make sense of the music here. He said something along the lines of that he found this symphony a challenge to figure out and because a lot of conductors who do a lot of other Mahler shy away from it, he wanted to confront himself with the score. And he did with very convincing results. Plus the playing of the Staatskapelle Berlin is extremely good and transparent, the slightly old-fashioned sound of the orchestra is very apt for the music and captured extremely well by the recording. The recording quality belies the idea that making good recordings in the Philharmonie is difficult. It isn't, it's just that the DG engineers who did most of the recordings there in the past like to fiddle with the knobs too much.

Thank you for all your insights - gatefully received as Mahler is new territory so I didn't want to be deterred from Marhler by a bad interpretation.  I must have heard chunks glancingly but not made a deliberate attempt to sit through a symphony.  The DVD looks a good bet.  I've been happy with what I've heard of Abbado and Bernstein so I'll choose between them.  The Chicago recording is still around but it's a bit of a hope to get it by Christmas.   

Cheers.       

It might be too late, but I say go for Barenboim or perhaps Abbado's most recent recording.  But mostly Barenboim.

Thank you for that,  Naturally I'm always happy to listen to the Waco Kid.  ;)

It's probably too late to get an order in before Christmas.  Download is always possible but I'll go to the library tomorrow with some of these suggestions and see what they have.  Another problem with Mahler is time to make comparisons so it's probably better, assuming I can get on with Mahler at all, to take his work in over a period of time.   

Quote from: M forever on December 17, 2007, 03:38:19 AM
The Solti recording is horrible.

wow, you really think that?  :o

Quote from: M forever on December 17, 2007, 03:38:19 AM
The Barenboim recording simply astonished me.

hmmmm...... ever since i first heard Barenboim's version of the Rite of Spring (which is the most perfect i've ever heard), i figured that this guy is an amazing conductor. So I'll remember this....  :)

have you listened to the Tilson Thomas recording, M?

Quote from: Anacho on December 17, 2007, 05:02:28 AM
Thank you for all your insights - gatefully received as Mahler is new territory so I didn't want to be deterred from Marhler by a bad interpretation.  I must have heard chunks glancingly but not made a deliberate attempt to sit through a symphony.  The DVD looks a good bet.  I've been happy with what I've heard of Abbado and Bernstein so I'll choose between them.  The Chicago recording is still around but it's a bit of a hope to get it by Christmas.   

Cheers.       

If that is new territory for you, you should definitely *not* get Bernstein (any of the 3, with the NYP, with the WP on video, and then again with the NYP). Bernstein was a great, great Mahler conductor but his priorities were not necessarily...balanced. He also has a lot to say about the 7th, but as a guide to this very complicated and sometimes puzzling symphony, especially for those who just begin to discover it, none of his recodings, as much as they are real musical trips, are good recommendations. You need a recording which lays out the material clearer and more balanced than Bernstein did. Just to listen to the music, the Boulez recording is actually quite good because it is so balanced. But, surprising as that is for Boulez, he doesn't connect all the dots nearly as convincingly as Barenboim or Abbado (at least in his CSO recording, like I said, I don't know the later ones), he just puts them all in the right places.
Besides, the last Bernstein recording (the one with NYP on DG) has reeeeeeeeeally bad sound. That's not even DG's fault - apparently Avery Fischer Hall really is acoustically nearly dead.

In which case, library be blowed, I just ordered the CSO one from an Amazon marketplace seller.  If it really doesn't work out I can sell it on.  (Trouble is, I've missed the chance to get a score as that site has closed.)  I'm musically broadminded so I'll do just that: listen.  If I get in (musical) trouble, I'll be back...(no, I'm not the governor of California).   

Edit: Dover do a score, £6 + in the UK so I may go for that.

I love the one that I got. Barenboim with Staatskapelle Berlin in 2006. Beautiful sound quality.

I recently bought the Bernstein VPO box set of the middle symphonies (5,6,7), primarily for Bernstein's version of the 6th  (which is great).      But when I listened to the 7th I was delighted and I warmly recommend it.      This is a symphony of extreme contrasts
and moods.     Bernstein makes the night-music really creepy and bizzare, and the finale is a riot   (the Meistersingers smoking dope).   I think Mahler's 7th is really a work where an "over the top" approach can work very well.     

"and the finale is a riot  (the Meistersingers smoking dope)"

;D

Quote from: Jezetha on December 19, 2007, 09:28:13 AM
"and the finale is a riot  (the Meistersingers smoking dope)"

;D

I don't get it, the finale doesn't remind me the least bit like anything from Die Meistersinger. Where do you hear a Meistersinger reference ???

Hey guys I'm listening to Bernard Haitink conducting Royal Concertgebouw from the RCO anthology set and it's pretty good compared with his another anemic recording with Berliner Philharmoniker.

Abbado/BPO, Tennstedt, Bernstein/Sony.

Quote from: MISHUGINA on December 19, 2007, 06:57:22 PM
Hey guys I'm listening to Bernard Haitink conducting Royal Concertgebouw from the RCO anthology set and it's pretty good compared with his another anemic recording with Berliner Philharmoniker.

I have no comparisons, but I've been happy with that RCO/Haitink for many years.
One of the best (together with 2 & 3) from the cycle IMO.

Q

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 19, 2007, 06:48:05 PM
I don't get it, the finale doesn't remind me the least bit like anything from Die Meistersinger. Where do you hear a Meistersinger reference ???

The main theme is very similar to the Meistersinger motive (which has been noticed by many others, btw). Just listen to the Meistersinger prelude, and then compare it to the theme of Mahler's Finale. The rhythm, the rise in the melody, they are quite similar. So that's why I had to laugh at Alkan's characterization.

Quote from: Que on December 19, 2007, 09:47:00 PM
I have no comparisons, but I've been happy with that RCO/Haitink for many years.
One of the best (together with 2 & 3) from the cycle IMO.

Q

Are you talking about the Philips one? The one I heard is a live concert from this box set:

Quote from: Jezetha on December 19, 2007, 11:22:38 PM
The main theme is very similar to the Meistersinger motive (which has been noticed by many others, btw). Just listen to the Meistersinger prelude, and then compare it to the theme of Mahler's Finale. The rhythm, the rise in the melody, they are quite similar. So that's why I had to laugh at Alkan's characterization.

So...which would go best with the Mahler: Afghan Black or Lebanese Gold?  I'd better give the little guy in the hood outside Sainsburys a couple days' notice. 

;)

Quote from: MISHUGINA on December 20, 2007, 06:58:21 AM
Are you talking about the Philips one? The one I heard is a live concert from this box set:

Yes I was, thanks for clearing that up.  :)
From which year is that live recording?

Q

Quote from: Que on December 20, 2007, 02:13:52 PM
Yes I was, thanks for clearing that up.  :)
From which year is that live recording?

Q

Pardon me for barging in (but I love this set).  :D  The Mahler 7 is from Nov. 10, 1969.  Here (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/FL_RCO_Live/RCO05001.htm) is a complete track listing on MDT.

--Bruce

Hmm....it arrived this morning.   Not quite sure what to think.  It's big enough that I haven't been able to listen to it in one sitting.   I don't think there's anything wrong with the performance but the symphony itself seems all over the place.     

I know it's nicknamed "The Mad" and I wondered?   The notes don't help in answering this.

Obviously I'll give it another listen as time becomes available but it's going to take some sorting out.   

Quote from: bhodges on December 20, 2007, 02:34:58 PM
Pardon me for barging in (but I love this set).  :D  The Mahler 7 is from Nov. 10, 1969.  Here (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/FL_RCO_Live/RCO05001.htm) is a complete track listing on MDT.

--Bruce

How many from that set has Haitink and Chailly? Almost every Concertgebouw compilation seem to be full of those two. Don't they have enough commercial releases elsewhere?

Quote from: MISHUGINA on December 20, 2007, 06:58:21 AM

That's a very worthwhile set, worth every penny of its rather steep price.  8)

Quote from: Wanderer on December 24, 2007, 08:48:07 AM
That's a very worthwhile set, worth every penny of its rather steep price.  8)

Indeed. And I say that even though I got it for a less than steep price when Tower Records at Lincoln Center went out of business.  ;D  Enjoying Vol.4  immensely as well.

Quote from: Anacho on December 24, 2007, 03:46:28 AM
   

I know it's nicknamed "The Mad" and I wondered?   

hm, that's a new one for me....

Quote from: O Mensch on December 24, 2007, 12:00:35 PM
Indeed. And I say that even though I got it for a less than steep price when Tower Records at Lincoln Center went out of business.  ;D  Enjoying Vol.4  immensely as well.

Hah could you possibly mention some highlights from Vol.4?

Howard

Quote from: hautbois on December 25, 2007, 04:33:43 AM
Hah could you possibly mention some highlights from Vol.4?

Shostakovich No. 4 Kondrashin
Franck Symphony in D Ancerl
Scriabin Divin Poeme Kondrashin
Schumann Piano Concerto Arrau/Jochum
Bruckner 9 Giulini
Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations Rostropovich/Kondrashin
Lots of 20th century stuff: Berg, Maderna, Lutoslawski, Martin, Berio, Boulez

Quote from: O Mensch on December 25, 2007, 05:46:18 PM
Shostakovich No. 4 Kondrashin
Franck Symphony in D Ancerl
Scriabin Divin Poeme Kondrashin
Schumann Piano Concerto Arrau/Jochum
Bruckner 9 Giulini
Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations Rostropovich/Kondrashin
Lots of 20th century stuff: Berg, Maderna, Lutoslawski, Martin, Berio, Boulez

Maybe, I will buy one of these sets. It seems like vol. 4 has some interesting performances. Do you rate any of these volumes higher than the others? Is the "Scriabin Divin Poeme Kondrashin" the same as this OOP recording?

[

Quote from: rubio on December 26, 2007, 03:48:46 AM
Maybe, I will buy one of these sets. It seems like vol. 4 has some interesting performances. Do you rate any of these volumes higher than the others?

I only have 3 and 4. Whether one is more interesting than the other depends on the repertoire and the performers you're interested in. I find both of them excellent. The consistently high quality of the playing of the Concertgebouw through the decades is amazing.

Quote from: rubio on December 26, 2007, 03:48:46 AM
Is the "Scriabin Divin Poeme Kondrashin" the same as this OOP recording?

[

I have no idea. Possibly. I have never heard of Etcetera. If that's a pirate, then the RCOLive set is likely to have better sound.

Quote from: O Mensch on December 26, 2007, 06:51:23 AM
I have no idea. Possibly. I have never heard of Etcetera. If that's a pirate, then the RCOLive set is likely to have better sound.

Etcetera are a legit indie outfit who have done some very good recordings over the years (Charles Rosen made his first recording of Elliott Carter's piano works for them). I don't know the provenance of this particular recording, though.

Quote from: edward on December 26, 2007, 07:07:36 AM
Etcetera are a legit indie outfit who have done some very good recordings over the years (Charles Rosen made his first recording of Elliott Carter's piano works for them). I don't know the provenance of this particular recording, though.

It seems like it is the Etcetera recording:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=166476

Like its predecessors in this now 100-disc series (including conductor boxes of Mengelberg, van Beinum, Haitink, and Chailly), there are a few near duplications of the orchestra's commercial recordings. I am glad to see Kondrashin's Divine Poem reappear, however, as the Etcetera LP and CD were not widely known. Not every performance here displays the orchestra at its best, nor is every recording pristine. Yet several marvelous, must-hear items (Kondrashin's Shostakovich Fourth, his and Rostropovich's Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations, all of CD 9, Les noces) make this set as necessary as earlier volumes. In particular, it serves to expand the slim recorded legacy of Kondrashin's 13 years in Amsterdam; his only studio recording was a Scheherazade, and 10 posthumously issued Philips LPs of 18 performances never made it to CD.

FANFARE: James H. North

"Kondrashin’s Shostakovich Fourth"

I agree - it's an electrifying performance.

Klaus Tennstedt om EMI, Inbal on Brilliant, Neumann on Supraphon. :)

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 24, 2007, 04:21:11 AM
How many from that set has Haitink and Chailly? Almost every Concertgebouw compilation seem to be full of those two. Don't they have enough commercial releases elsewhere?

On this box, Haitink does Escher, Martin and Vermeulen (in addition to the Mahler), so he's not on this one as much.  There is a separate Haitink Radio Recordings box that is marvelous, as well as one with the Mahler "Kerstmatinees" that includes all of the symphonies except 6, 8 and 10.

Some of the other Concertgebouw Anthology boxes have more from Mengelberg, Van Beinum, etc.

--Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

What do you know about this (http://cgi.ebay.com/MAHLER-FEEST-Radio-Netherlands-World-Service-16CD-MINT_W0QQitemZ280185442554QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) set?

Looks like something different from the Concertgebouw Anthologies series. Is it something official or some kind of pirate?

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 26, 2007, 11:36:23 AM
Thanks Bruce.

What do you know about this (http://cgi.ebay.com/MAHLER-FEEST-Radio-Netherlands-World-Service-16CD-MINT_W0QQitemZ280185442554QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) set?

Looks like something different from the Concertgebouw Anthologies series. Is it something official or some kind of pirate?

It's quite official... 8)

http://www2.rnw.nl/mu/catalog/musiccds/classical/11717871 (http://www2.rnw.nl/mu/catalog/musiccds/classical/11717871)

Q

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 26, 2007, 11:36:23 AM
Thanks Bruce.

What do you know about this (http://cgi.ebay.com/MAHLER-FEEST-Radio-Netherlands-World-Service-16CD-MINT_W0QQitemZ280185442554QQihZ018QQcategoryZ307QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) set?

Looks like something different from the Concertgebouw Anthologies series. Is it something official or some kind of pirate?

That's an official set, but it wasn't sold commercially.  It's only available to "radio partners" at Radio Netherlands (e.g., a radio station that would play and promote the set).  You see copies on eBay now and then but almost always at that price or similar.  (I don't have a copy.) 

It was all taped at the 1995 Mahler Feest at the Concertgebouw, with that orchestra as well as the ones from Berlin and Vienna performing.  At least one of those performances--of the Eighth--may be the same one that is included in the Chailly Radio Recordings box, since it was taped at that time.  (I haven't seen a list of dates of the Mahler Feest recordings.)  The Chailly Eighth from 1995 is terrific, IMHO, but caveat emptor: it's even slower than his studio recording, probably too radical for some.  I think it works beautifully.

Ah, just saw Que's post...

--Bruce

Thanks guys. There was another copy that "sold" for like $300. I said "sold" since a bunch of bids were from someone with some phony ebay ID. Anyway it looks interesting.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 26, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
Thanks guys. There was another copy that "sold" for like $300. I said "sold" since a bunch of bids were from someone with some phony ebay ID. Anyway it looks interesting.

If you see it for around $300 I would grab it.  Sounds overpriced, but that's the cheapest I've seen it.

--Bruce

I didn't know if there was a thread already devoted to this, so here is a thread on it anyway.

I have been going through all the recordings of which I am particularly fond and will probably listen to some others after I am done with the following 17:


Favourites

Bernstein/NYPO (1st one)


Berstein/Vienna


Boulez/Clevelend


Gielen/SWR


Solti/Chicago


Tilson Thomas/LSO


Sinopoli/Philharmonia




Ones that I like but aren't among my favourites

Dudamel/SBSO


Abbado/Chicago


Abbado/BP


Abbado/Lucerne


Bernstein/NYPO (2nd one)


Rattle/CBSO


Fischer/Dusseldorf


Zender/Saarbrucken


Tilson Thomas/SF


Kubelik/Bavarian Radio (studio version rather than live)


I might do some reviews or comparisons later once I listen to all of these again, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts on them whilst I think about mine!

We have some favorites in common: Bernstein/Sony, Bouleiz/Cleveland, Solti/Chicago (I need to listen to Gielen and Sinopoli again). But my desert island choice is missing from your list (and I know why. I know you hate him  ;) ): Klemperer. And, yes, I admit he isn't easy to love but I do love his broad, even perverse approach to the first and last movements. Where he wins decisively, I think, is the Nachtmusik I. His slow tempo, his pointillistic sound painting, projects the music far into the 20th century. Klemp makes it easy to understand why the Second Viennese dudes loved this symphony.

I hope your future listening includes Barenboim. I heard him live, in Berlin, during the 2007 Mahler fest, and his 2005 recording is as fine.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 27, 2016, 12:55:08 PM
Klemperer. And, yes, I admit he isn't easy to love but I do love his broad, even perverse approach to the first and last movements. Where he wins decisively, I think, is the Nachtmusik I. His slow tempo, his pointillistic sound painting, projects the music far into the 20th century.

Absolutely agree with this, 110%

I have nothing to add to the original (OP) list except Tennstedt, Kodrashin and Kobayashi, but none of those surpass the best in the OP list in my opinion.  If you disregard Klemperer, I'd go with Bernstein personally.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 27, 2016, 12:55:08 PM
We have some favorites in common: Bernstein/Sony, Bouleiz/Cleveland, Solti/Chicago (I need to listen to Gielen and Sinopoli again). But my desert island choice is missing from your list (and I know why. I know you hate him  ;) ): Klemperer. And, yes, I admit he isn't easy to love but I do love his broad, even perverse approach to the first and last movements. Where he wins decisively, I think, is the Nachtmusik I. His slow tempo, his pointillistic sound painting, projects the music far into the 20th century. Klemp makes it easy to understand why the Second Viennese dudes loved this symphony.

I hope your future listening includes Barenboim. I heard him live, in Berlin, during the 2007 Mahler fest, and his 2005 recording is as fine.

Sarge

I feel that Klemperer's slow pace lacks the propulsion, the forward movement of the slow first movement of Boulez and the slow Nachtmusiks of Sinopoli. Both Boulez and Sinopoli achieve a balance, phrasing and pace that I prefer to Klemperer. The recap/coda of the first movement under Klemperer in particular has always been a huge turn off whenever I've tried to listen to his recording again.  I suppose we can just agree to disagree about this one!

I do really like Klemperer as a conductor, but I find that his interpretations of even the most standard repertoire vary so much over the course of his career that I never know if I'm going to love a recording or not until I hear it entirely.

I have heard a recording on youtube of Barenboim conduct it which I think actually was from the 2007 Mahler fest but it has since been taken down.

I am currently listening to Rattle's take with the CBSO, and I think I need to promote it to my 'favourite' list upon thinking about it again. Its expressiveness is more to my liking than Dudamel's, Fischer's, Bernstein's third recording and all of Abbado's, that's for sure. That coda in the first movement is pretty great, although I still think MTT and the LSO as well as Boulez have done those few minutes a bit better.

Quote from: jessop on October 26, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Ones that I like but aren't among my favourites New favourite

Rattle/CBSO

Quote from: jessop on October 26, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Gielen/SWR

Gielen would be my first choice.

I also like old Scherchen/Vienna State Opera Orchestra on Westminster/DG, but that is definitely an acquired taste, orchestra is decidedly third rate.

Also Kondrashin/Leningrad Philharmonic on Melodiya. Love the sound of the orchestra.

Gielen gets this symphony so well. From the way he reads the tremolo strings in the very opening bars to just, well... everything. It's so, so good! If I had to pick desert island discs it would probably be on the list.

Boulez, Klemperer, Abbado, Abravanel, Levine. As usual with Mahler Bernstein is in the bottom half of the class.

Abbado/CSO/DG
Bernstein/NYPO I, CBS, 60s...

Abbado/BPO
As best I remember, I thought Rattle was meh.
Sinopoli is another good one, and so is MTT/SFO
And I kind of liked Klemperer.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 27, 2016, 07:33:10 PM
And I kind of liked Klemperer.

Considering what most poeple think of it, that comes as a resounding endorsement  ;D

Sarge

I really like the Tennstedt LIVE (On Memories label), and the Boulez on DG.

But the best LIVE I have attended was Gielen (LA Phil)

1. My favorite Mahler 7 is part of this box set. [asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin] It's a much better deal to buy it than the single CD, and it features DSD sound.

2. This is my next favorite, Bernstein on DG ($2.99 on eBay): http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAHLER-SYMPHONIE-NO-7-Bernstein-/222296997935?hash=item33c1ef002f:g:uTcAAOSwxg5X1dxt

3. Then there's Abbado's original version with the Chicago SO, in its original 2-CD release:  [asin]B00000E2WI[/asin]

4. Later, I discovered Barenboim's M7, and it became a new favorite. [asin]B000EGDMSC[/asin]

5. Same with MTT: [asin]B000QZUZZO[/asin]

I just listened to this one, which I now like very much



Mirror Image asked me what I thought in WAYLTN............

Quote from: jessop on October 29, 2016, 09:41:00 PM

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 29, 2016, 08:36:41 PM
What do you think of that performance, Jessop?

I hadn't heard it before but it's very good. It is very grand but not quite as grand as Sinopoli's. The thing about this symphony is how much the tempi vary in each interpretation. Chailly takes his time to the most wonderful effect I have heard in the more lyrical subjects in the exposition and recapitulation and the changes tempo are imperceptible, almost like Elliott Carter and his metric modulation. The only thing about this interpretation is that there are times in some of the most heroic or climactic moments of the first movement that it feels a bit restraint. Perhaps because Chailly views things on more of a macro level in terms of the underlying pace of the movement. Personally I think that there could have been a bit more variety in the phrasing in these moments in the work, but the way Chailly builds up from 23:48 to 24:03 is absolutely thrilling. The middle movements are all pretty good to me, but where this interpretation really shines is in the finale where the fast pace is really complemented by wonderful micro-phrasing and really obvious articulations and accents that bring the movement to life. Around the 2nd minute and the 3rd minute of the last movement this is really apparent, with the music always seeming to be moving forwards to the next idea, the next colour, the next mood, in what always sounds logical fashion. The timpani+trumpet combination sound bright and dazzling, and the last couple of minutes (which are my favourite last minutes in any Mahler symphony) have that kind of heightened passion and intensity that I felt was missing at times in the recap/coda of the first movement.

This is Mahler's most challenging works for the conductor. It's easy for a name conductor to get each movement right, but much harder to get the movements to fit together. The darkness of the earlier movements and the sunshine of the final are not easily reconciled.

The Oldies are good enough for me.
Most of them are Dead Oldies, btw.

In no particular order:

Bernstein/NYPh
Solti/ChSO
Haitink/Concertgebouw (1985 Xmas Matinee)
Abbado/ChSO

Concertgebouw Amsterdam, December 25th, 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/v/IEoYrRBAGqA

A recent favorite of mine is Masur/Gewandhaus. At a tad over 71min one of the fastest on record. The first movement whizzes by at a little over 19 min where a typical timing is more like 22min. The main Allegro really whizzes by but still with a lot of detail. The tenor horn solo is played mezzo-piano instead of forte as marked, giving the music a much more sinister feeling.

I'm not a huge fan of Rattle's Mahler, but I recall his 7th being particularly good. I think he was the first conductor who made this work click for me, but it was Abbado/CSO and Bernstein/NYPO (DG) that sealed the deal for me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 05, 2016, 07:32:04 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Rattle's Mahler, but I recall his 7th being particularly good.

Is that with the City of Birmingham SO or is there another one?

Quote from: Marc on October 31, 2016, 10:55:10 AM
Concertgebouw Amsterdam, December 25th, 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/v/IEoYrRBAGqA

Wow that is some superb playing !

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on November 06, 2016, 11:13:07 AMIs that with the City of Birmingham SO or is there another one?

It's with Birmingham.

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on November 21, 2021, 01:19:40 AM


I've never really got on with Mahler's 7th, which is why this disc, given away free with BBC Music Magazine, is the only version I own. It's a decent enough performance, but I should probably acquire another (Chailly or Abbado maybe?).

Yes, of Abbado's with Berlin, I think the 7th is my favorite of his cycle. Otherwise, I have kept Bernstein/NY, Solti/Levine (70's), and Klemperer close at hand.

I was very, very surprised a decade or so ago when Gerard Schwarz leading the RLPO gave a strong reading of the 7th. I still find myself coming back to it when I have a Mahler hankering.

Perhaps it has been too long since I dipped into the Mahler well; it has been a while.

VS

I really like the Michael Tilson Thomas/LSO on RCA Victor. Just got it recently.

Quote from: Marc on October 31, 2016, 10:55:10 AM
Concertgebouw Amsterdam, December 25th, 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/v/IEoYrRBAGqA

A truly fantastic performance. What an orchestra !

Haven't seen much mention of this one, but I recently picked up Haitink's 2nd (non-cycle) recording, made about 1982.

Although it's early digital, it sounds great, with tons of detail and a nice ambience. Haitink takes a fairly leisurely stroll through the score and at times I wanted more energy, but he's good on atmosphere. 

Quote from: VonStupp on November 21, 2021, 06:35:44 AM
Yes, of Abbado's with Berlin, I think the 7th is my favorite of his cycle. Otherwise, I have kept Bernstein/NY, Solti/Levine (70's), and Klemperer close at hand.

I was very, very surprised a decade or so ago when Gerard Schwarz leading the RLPO gave a strong reading of the 7th. I still find myself coming back to it when I have a Mahler hankering.

Perhaps it has been too long since I dipped into the Mahler well; it has been a while.

VS

Definitely agree the Abbado.

I enjoy Neumann/Czech Phil



Neumann is not one to wear his heart on his sleeve in Mahler, which is good for the 7th, since no on seems to agree on what the "message" of the symphony is.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 21, 2021, 06:54:28 PM
I enjoy Neumann/Czech Phil



Neumann is not one to wear his heart on his sleeve in Mahler, which is good for the 7th, since no on seems to agree on what the "message" of the symphony is.

I've seen you mention this Neumann cycle several times. It certainly makes me think I'm missing something. I own the set, but I don't think I've really given the attention it deserves.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 21, 2021, 07:40:16 PM
I've seen you mention this Neumann cycle several times. It certainly makes me think I'm missing something. I own the set, but I don't think I've really given the attention it deserves.

It's on my shopping list.
So many other things, too!

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 21, 2021, 07:40:16 PM
I've seen you mention this Neumann cycle several times. It certainly makes me think I'm missing something. I own the set, but I don't think I've really given the attention it deserves.

I like it because Neumann eschews histrionics, lets the music speak for itself. Similar, in that way, to the Haitink cycle. And the Czech Philharmonic produces beautiful sonorities. A matter of taste, of course.

I've picked up several recordings but since I only listen to Mahler once every couple of years, attention paid has probably been insufficient.

Solti [Decca] - I have heard this once and don't remember anything about it
Kondrashin [Melodiya] - Generally my favourite. Kondrashin tends to be, in general, the fastest and most neurotic Mahler conductor and therefore tends to divide opinion for that reason. (People also have a variety of opinions regarding Soviet brass.)
Bernstein [Sony] - Also pretty good; hard to go wrong with, in general
Gielen [SWR] - usually described as "modernist"; I'm not really sure what's modernist about it in all honesty. Never had a strong opinion about it
Klemperer [EMI] - Has all the usual tradeoffs of slow tempi, but I don't hate it; just usually need a break after Nachtmusik I
Haitink [RCO Live 1969] - I'm not sure I have actually listened to this
Neumann [Berlin Classics] - This is the Leipzig Gewandhaus recording. Probably the best-sounding one in my collection, at least in terms of orchestral playing. Definitely prachtvoll and, yes, somewhat impersonal. This is usually the other one I listen to most often

I'm not sure what the critical consensus is; professional critics seem to like Bernstein, Mahler anoraks lean more towards Gielen or Abbado (which I'm sure I used to have, but it doesn't appear to be in my collection anymore) etc.

Quote from: JBS on November 21, 2021, 07:43:58 PM
It's on my shopping list.
So many other things, too!

Yeah, my to-listen-to pile is ridiculous at this juncture. :)

Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 21, 2021, 07:45:00 PM
I like it because Neumann eschews histrionics, lets the music speak for itself. Similar, in that way, to the Haitink cycle. And the Czech Philharmonic produces beautiful sonorities. A matter of taste, of course.

Sounds like a fine alternative to Bernstein and Solti. Of course, I love all kinds of Mahler conductors. One for every mood.

Last recording that really impressed me was Alexandre Bloch:

Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 21, 2021, 06:54:28 PM
I enjoy Neumann/Czech Phil



Neumann is not one to wear his heart on his sleeve in Mahler, which is good for the 7th, since no on seems to agree on what the "message" of the symphony is.

+1 for Neumann's Mahler.  Absolutely the antithesis interpretatively of say Bernstein (not better just different) but I do love the actual sound the Czech PO make in this music - a unique cycle in this respect.  Also the choral contributions in 2 & 8 are very fine.  Those East European choirs produce a focussed sound certainly Brit choirs cannot match

Quote from: vers la flamme on November 21, 2021, 07:13:57 AM
I really like the Michael Tilson Thomas/LSO on RCA Victor. Just got it recently.

This is one of my favorites as well.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 21, 2021, 06:54:28 PM
I enjoy Neumann/Czech Phil



Neumann is not one to wear his heart on his sleeve in Mahler, which is good for the 7th, since no on seems to agree on what the "message" of the symphony is.

Just curious, do you hear any noise reduction on this box? I was sampling the Kletzki Beethoven reissue box on Supraphon and it does have some noise reduction, the earlier CDs from the 90s sounded better.

Macal's fine Czech Phil recording on Exton boasts excellent playing and sound. They also recorded the 3rd (splendid) and 4th symphonies - but the series ended there.

Quote from: hvbias on November 24, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Just curious, do you hear any noise reduction on this box? I was sampling the Kletzki Beethoven reissue box on Supraphon and it does have some noise reduction, the earlier CDs from the 90s sounded better.

You just made me feel much better!  :)

Quote from: hvbias on November 24, 2021, 04:42:58 AMJust curious, do you hear any noise reduction on this box? I was sampling the Kletzki Beethoven reissue box on Supraphon and it does have some noise reduction, the earlier CDs from the 90s sounded better.

I had several volumes from the early release and, although I have not made side-by-side comparisons, the complete set doesn't sound any different to me. These recordings are from the late 70's and noise reduction is generally not appropriate for recordings of that era.

Thoughts on the latest Mahler 7s from two of BPO's music directors?

Petrenko with Bavarian State Orchestra:


Simon Rattle with Berliner Philharmoniker:

Quote from: amw on November 21, 2021, 07:57:57 PM
Gielen [SWR] - usually described as "modernist"; I'm not really sure what's modernist about it in all honesty. Never had a strong opinion about it

I sometimes think that anyone that provides some transparency, detail and avoids the hyper-romanticism of DG Bernstein ends up labeled as either a modernist or a classicist in Mahler.  I was recently relistening to the 2nd and 9th from the Gielen set and finding myself wondering why I bought into that narrative.  Gielen is not even as emotionally cool as Boulez or Ivan Fischer.

Quote from: hvbias on November 24, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
This is one of my favorites as well.

Just curious, do you hear any noise reduction on this box? I was sampling the Kletzki Beethoven reissue box on Supraphon and it does have some noise reduction, the earlier CDs from the 90s sounded better.

I bought the Supraphon cycle shorted after this discussion and listened to it a couple of times, these were so good that I decided to give the incomplete Exton cycle a try, it only has symphonies 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 9. I also bought Neumann's recording of 8 with Czech Phil on Pro-Arte that is different from the Supraphon cycle, both 8s are good performances but won't make my personal greatest ever (some not top tier singing). I found the performances superior on the Exton cycle and in considerably better recording quality.

Quote from: lordlance on April 12, 2022, 01:45:59 AM
Thoughts on the latest Mahler 7s from two of BPO's music directors?

Petrenko with Bavarian State Orchestra:


Simon Rattle with Berliner Philharmoniker:

Rattle and the BPO toured with M7 in 2017. Since my greatest concert experience was M7 as realized by Haitink with his RCO in 1982, l was keen to hear what Rattle would make of the piece with his orchestra.

I was so bored, l left the hall during the third movement to use the facilities; the usher let me back in after a bit of sweet-talking.

The one saving grace was Jonathan Kelly's oboe playing, but for his efforts I'd have counted the evening as a bust.

( Corrected the year of Haitink's concert - LKB )

Quote from: LKB on July 03, 2022, 06:58:48 AM
Rattle and the BPO toured with M7 in 2017. Since my greatest concert experience was M7 as realized by Haitink with his RCO in 1984, l was keen to hear what Rattle would make of the piece with his orchestra.

I was so bored, l left the hall during the third movement to use the facilities; the usher let me back in after a bit of sweet-talking.

The one saving grace was Jonathan Kelly's oboe playing, but for his efforts I'd have counted the evening as a bust.

Have you tried any of other Rattle's Mahler?

My favorites for this symphony include:

Michael Tilson Thomas/LSO (rather new to me, but so, so good)
Abbado/Chicago (I've been told many times that the Berlin is even better; I'll get it eventually, I'm sure)
Bernstein/NY (first I ever heard, but it's been a while)
Boulez/Cleveland (the only Boulez Mahler recording to which I would apply the Boulez cliches of "clinical" performance, but it's a magnificent realization of the piece)

I also have the Klemperer but cannot make heads or tails of it.

Quote from: vers la flamme on August 16, 2022, 02:59:52 AM
My favorites for this symphony include:

Michael Tilson Thomas/LSO (rather new to me, but so, so good)
Abbado/Chicago (I've been told many times that the Berlin is even better; I'll get it eventually, I'm sure)
Bernstein/NY (first I ever heard, but it's been a while)
Boulez/Cleveland (the only Boulez Mahler recording to which I would apply the Boulez cliches of "clinical" performance, but it's a magnificent realization of the piece)

I also have the Klemperer but cannot make heads or tails of it.

See what you make of Haitink in London in the 1980s - I just happened to listen to the first four movements a few weeks ago and enjoyed the small scale and transparent vibe  (I never listen to the end of this one unless forced)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8KlgokOJrfk

Quote from: lordlance on August 16, 2022, 01:37:33 AM
Have you tried any of other Rattle's Mahler?

( Reading that as, " Have you tried any of Rattle's other Mahler? " )

I quite enjoy the M2 he recorded back in the '80's with the CBSO on EMI,  with Baker and Auger. I still have the CD box in storage.

The Vanska M7 is very satisfying and keeps me entranced throughout the entire progression of the work. It's detailed oriented which works really well for the 7th. The phrasing is conscious with intent and really swings well, played with élan! 

Quote from: Leo K. on September 21, 2022, 04:59:39 AM


The Vanska M7 is very satisfying and keeps me entranced throughout the entire progression of the work. It's detailed oriented which works really well for the 7th. The phrasing is conscious with intent and really swings well, played with élan!

How is his phrasing?  Some of his Mahler phrasing in other works - I can't remember if M2 or M8, I felt were trying to be novel but felt odd.  Slowing when it should speed up or vice versa. 

The phrasing feels natural and well shaped - and no irritating rubato as far as I can tell.  It's a real tight ensemble throughout.

How is the opening of the first movement, are the string articulations distinct or does it sound like tremolo?

Quote from: LKB on September 22, 2022, 07:52:45 PM
How is the opening of the first movement, are the string articulations distinct or does it sound like tremolo?

It's easy to sample it: https://www.youtube.com/embed/vuf4hXL1TD8

Quote from: lordlance on September 23, 2022, 12:53:12 AM
It's easy to sample it: https://www.youtube.com/embed/vuf4hXL1TD8

Good idea thanks Lordlance!!