GMG Classical Music Forum

The Back Room => The Diner => Topic started by: маразм1 on September 13, 2007, 06:47:21 AM

Title: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: маразм1 on September 13, 2007, 06:47:21 AM
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Led-Zeppelin-501/Jimmy-Page-Asian.htm

I always thought he looked kind-of asian. 
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: dtwilbanks on September 13, 2007, 06:49:12 AM
But is he Jewish? We all want to know. Or at least one of us.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Florestan on September 13, 2007, 06:56:05 AM
But is he Jewish?

He's Zhou-ish.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 07:40:05 AM
Octaroon Chinese! Cool!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 08:23:46 AM
Whatever his ethnicity, it never helped his lead guitar playing much.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: маразм1 on September 13, 2007, 08:37:53 AM
Whatever his ethnicity, it never helped his lead guitar playing much.

Just my opinion.

Here's my deal.  He's very very talented, innovative.  Led zep's influence is seen everwhere.  I love their polished first couple of albums.  Dazed and confused is just great!  Totally nuts, and raw. 

Their early live performances are also just awesome!  try youtubing "dazed and confused" from like 1969. 

Later stuff, is good, but I really hate their sound.  Sloppy, full of screw-ups.  I really can't stand that "electric drill" out of tune sound that he loves so much.  All those leslie'ed vocals with too much echo/reverb, all those squeaking bass drum pedals and drums that sound like they were recorded with a crappy toy microphone.   

Even "all of my love", what a great song, but that bass drum pedal squeaking is pissing me off.  then the keyboard solo, where John missed the key and hit two instead of one, then the really thin telecaster sound.  And the rest of their later muddy stuff, I cant stand at all.  Sounds like singing into the well, or something.

As time went by, jimi just plain sucked on stage. 

You know?  I think some rock/jazz musicians are either very polished, and boring; or unpolished and adventurous.  It's rare to see the two combined. 


D.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 08:49:14 AM
Whatever his ethnicity, it never helped his lead guitar playing much.

Just my opinion.

How about his rhythm work?

--Just kidding!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: mahlertitan on September 13, 2007, 08:51:20 AM
so he is 1/8 Chinese, so what?
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 09:17:52 AM
Here's my deal.  He's very very talented, innovative.  Led zep's influence is seen everwhere.  I love their polished first couple of albums.  Dazed and confused is just great!  Totally nuts, and raw. 

Their early live performances are also just awesome!  try youtubing "dazed and confused" from like 1969. 

Later stuff, is good, but I really hate their sound.  Sloppy, full of screw-ups.  I really can't stand that "electric drill" out of tune sound that he loves so much.  All those leslie'ed vocals with too much echo/reverb, all those squeaking bass drum pedals and drums that sound like they were recorded with a crappy toy microphone.   

Even "all of my love", what a great song, but that bass drum pedal squeaking is pissing me off.  then the keyboard solo, where John missed the key and hit two instead of one, then the really thin telecaster sound.  And the rest of their later muddy stuff, I cant stand at all.  Sounds like singing into the well, or something.

As time went by, jimi just plain sucked on stage. 

You know?  I think some rock/jazz musicians are either very polished, and boring; or unpolished and adventurous.  It's rare to see the two combined. 


D.




I classify Page's lead guita playing with players like Hendrix and Ace Frehley: I liked them only before I started playing guitar. Once I played for a few years, I began to get embarassed by Page's carelessness in his his early and late period playing. After his often interesting solos with the Yardbirds, He seemed to actually stop practicing his leads entirely after Zeppelin got signed by a major label (that's their first album, btw).

I admit that Zeppelin had several very good songs (I always thougt Achilles Last Stand was their best, it practically invented Iron Maiden), but folks that want to hear a far more advanced lead guitar player can just go pick up far more accomplished, well-practiced guitar albums likeJeff Beck Group's Truth, Deep Purple's output from 1970 on, and (since I've paid more attention) King Crimson's '70's material.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: BachQ on September 13, 2007, 09:23:58 AM
I admit that Zeppelin had several very good songs

 :D
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 09:37:17 AM
:D



Okay, I love Achilles' Last Stand, Immigrant Song, Since I've Been Loving You, and Communication Breakdown. But that pretty much wraps it up for me. I haven't even owned a Led Zeppelin album in roughly 15 years. Yet I have over a dozen Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Judas Priest discs. I guess it's just a matter of taste again.

The thing that always turned me off about Zeppelin was their preoccupation with Folk music...I'm not a fan of that genre, though I certainly respect some of the lyricists (YES I MEAN BIG BOB D.!).
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 09:41:49 AM
I haven't even owned a Led Zeppelin album in roughly 15 years.

Nor me!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 09:43:12 AM
(YES I MEAN BIG BOB D.!).

Quote
An' me, I nearly got busted
An' wouldn't it be my luck
To get caught without a ticket
And be discovered beneath a truck.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 09:48:57 AM




"Jokerman dance by the nightingale tune..."

My favorite "Bob" tune.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: dtwilbanks on September 13, 2007, 09:52:54 AM



I classify Page's lead guita playing with players like Hendrix and Ace Frehley: I liked them only before I started playing guitar. Once I played for a few years, I began to get embarassed by Page's carelessness in his his early and late period playing. After his often interesting solos with the Yardbirds, He seemed to actually stop practicing his leads entirely after Zeppelin got signed by a major label (that's their first album, btw).

I admit that Zeppelin had several very good songs (I always thougt Achilles Last Stand was their best, it practically invented Iron Maiden), but folks that want to hear a far more advanced lead guitar player can just go pick up far more accomplished, well-practiced guitar albums likeJeff Beck Group's Truth, Deep Purple's output from 1970 on, and (since I've paid more attention) King Crimson's '70's material.

This is rock 'n' roll. Only three chords required.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 10:03:56 AM
Give Dave "Louie, Louie," and he's occupied for days  8)
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: dtwilbanks on September 13, 2007, 10:05:57 AM
Give Dave "Louie, Louie," and he's occupied for days  8)

Yep. That's a rock 'n' roll song. Not one of my favorites, mind you.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 10:16:12 AM
This is rock 'n' roll. Only three chords required.





Great point  :D!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 13, 2007, 10:17:31 AM
Give Dave "Louie, Louie," and he's occupied for days  8)




"Since You Been Gone,
Since You Been Gone,
Outta my head can't take it.
Don't get me wrong but since you been gone
you cast the spell now break it."
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2007, 10:18:42 AM
Yep. That's a rock 'n' roll song. Not one of my favorites, mind you.

Hmm . . . inquiring minds . . . .
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: dtwilbanks on September 13, 2007, 10:20:30 AM
Hmm . . . inquiring minds . . . .

Jeez. Too many to mention, sir.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: bwv 1080 on September 13, 2007, 11:22:27 AM
Page is a great R&R guitarist and composer.  That he lacks the facility to play fast scales fluidly does not diminish his skill.  It is only in the shred guitarbation culture of the last 20 years or so that someone like Page has begun to be considered a poor player.  I will listen to Page all day before 5 minutes of Paul Gilbert or Yngwie Malmsteen
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Danny on September 13, 2007, 11:23:24 AM
Whatever his ethnicity, it never helped his lead guitar playing much.

Just my opinion.

At everything else he was a real hammer, Haffner!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on September 13, 2007, 01:08:39 PM
I haven't even owned a Led Zeppelin album in roughly 15 years.

Nor me!

Over 25+ years for me!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 04:05:01 AM
At everything else he was a real hammer, Haffner!





Yeah, as a songwriter, rythm and "acoustic folk rock" guitar player,  Page was often really good. Again, it's only my opinion.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 04:07:06 AM
Over 25+ years for me!






You know, alot of it had to do (at least for me) with the fact that the radio just played Zeppelin to death. I used to really like and enjoy Zep IV and Houses of the Holy. But after having it shoved down my throat for decades, I'm pretty much indifferent to practically all their catalogue.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 04:16:58 AM
Page is a great R&R guitarist and composer.  That he lacks the facility to play fast scales fluidly does not diminish his skill.  It is only in the shred guitarbation culture of the last 20 years or so that someone like Page has begun to be considered a poor player. 





I respect 100% that you like Page alot; I like him too.


Actually, Page has for the most part shown a remarkable lack of care in his lead guitar playing since 1968. I couldn't care less how fast he plays or no, when he does play lead, he almost entirely abandons intonation in favor of sounding a bunch of improprerly fretted notes that impress mostly people whom haven't played a musical instrument for any appreciable length of time.

I'm no great or very good player myself, but I do teach, and among every other guitar teacher I've spoken with (dozens in several different states), the fact of Page's basic lack of concern for proper intonation is (has been) accepted.

Listen to the guitar solo on "Heartbreaker", and then (say) Deep Purple's "Highway Star", both roughly from the same period.

That written, Page's songwriting abilities far outshine and balance out the marked deficiencies he has as a player.

Again, I am a nobody, just a middle aged, loser guitar player from New England. But I must impress that it isn't only folks of the "shred generation" whom are aware of the crippling deficiencies in Page's playing.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: aquablob on September 14, 2007, 04:29:52 AM
But I must impress that it isn't only folks of the "shred generation" whom are aware of the crippling deficiencies in Page's playing.

Word
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: маразм1 on September 14, 2007, 04:32:15 AM
actually, i listened to Achilles Last Stand last night.  I must say, indeed it is highly influential as a song, but it just sounds like crap to me.

It literally sounds like the dude can't play guitar, or just started.  I thought it would be a great song, but the quality was complete crap.  No vibrato, out of tune, horrible sound.  It also sounds like it was recorded in the 60s, it has that thin sound; not the "processed" heavy sound.  Do you know what I mean?  Like let's take "all along to watchtower" tone and compare it to "sgt pepper longely hearts club band".  Night and day.

He must have been stoned out of his mind.  

The solo is very sloppy, one part makes me cringe, because it's a clear screw-up!  I hated the song, and hope to never listen to it again!  
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 04:41:49 AM
actually, i listened to Achilles Last Stand last night.  I must say, indeed it is highly influential as a song, but it just sounds like crap to me.

It literally sounds like the dude can't play guitar, or just started.  I thought it would be a great song, but the quality was complete crap.  No vibrato, out of tune, horrible sound.  It also sounds like it was recorded in the 60s, it has that thin sound; not the "processed" heavy sound.  Do you know what I mean?  Like let's take "all along to watchtower" tone and compare it to "sgt pepper longely hearts club band".  Night and day.

He must have been stoned out of his mind.  

The solo is very sloppy, one part makes me cringe, because it's a clear screw-up!  I hated the song, and hope to never listen to it again!  





Hey, you might not have the remastered version. Achilles... (in my opinion) trumps even Kashmir and Stairway to Heaven in its epic construction and obviously progressive unfolding. True, the solo is mostly pretty bad, but I guess Zeppelin just wasn't about guitar solos. If you want those, from the same time period, run don't walk to buy Rainbow Rising.

Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Hector on September 14, 2007, 04:46:00 AM
Here's my deal.  He's very very talented, innovative.  Led zep's influence is seen everwhere.  I love their polished first couple of albums.  Dazed and confused is just great!  Totally nuts, and raw. 

Their early live performances are also just awesome!  try youtubing "dazed and confused" from like 1969. 

Later stuff, is good, but I really hate their sound.  Sloppy, full of screw-ups.  I really can't stand that "electric drill" out of tune sound that he loves so much.  All those leslie'ed vocals with too much echo/reverb, all those squeaking bass drum pedals and drums that sound like they were recorded with a crappy toy microphone.   

Even "all of my love", what a great song, but that bass drum pedal squeaking is pissing me off.  then the keyboard solo, where John missed the key and hit two instead of one, then the really thin telecaster sound.  And the rest of their later muddy stuff, I cant stand at all.  Sounds like singing into the well, or something.

As time went by, jimi just plain sucked on stage. 

You know?  I think some rock/jazz musicians are either very polished, and boring; or unpolished and adventurous.  It's rare to see the two combined. 


D.

In a way that is very perceptive but remember most of these guys were spaced out on dugs and booze most of the time, hyped up to a frenzy, and then there was the sex, faceless chicks throwing their bodies at them. It amazes me that they could get a chord together.

Worst group in the universe: Rolling Stones, never together, each playing at his own dynamic, a complete mess. The 'Blues', in fact.

It is only when the tight ensemble playing of Dire Straits came along that the failings of this lot were amplified.

Best group for tight ensemble playing: Los Lobos. Am I right or am I right?

All in my dissolute past.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: маразм1 on September 14, 2007, 04:53:12 AM




Hey, you might not have the remastered version. Achilles... (in my opinion) trumps even Kashmir and Stairway to Heaven in its epic construction and obviously progressive unfolding. True, the solo is mostly pretty bad, but I guess Zeppelin just wasn't about guitar solos. If you want those, from the same time period, run don't walk to buy Rainbow Rising.



when you say "remastered", you are saying it sounds different from the original vinyl?  like, they changed the sound or something?

d.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 04:55:24 AM
when you say "remastered", you are saying it sounds different from the original vinyl?  like, they changed the sound or something?

d.



Some of the problems that you mentioned with your copy of the song can get cleared up via remastering. Most of Zep's stuff sounds alot better on cd now (in my opinion) due to the years of master and remastering done to the original sound.

However, it is a '70's release!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: greg on September 14, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
You know?  I think some rock/jazz musicians are either very polished, and boring; or unpolished and adventurous.  It's rare to see the two combined. 


D.
that's why i listen to classical, the best of both worlds
(especially my favorite composer  0:) 0:) 0:))

most rock just totally bores me, i wish the truly good guitarists weren't glorified just by the guitar magazines (like crazy!) but instead by a larger fan base, and of course, the radio.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 05:12:11 AM
that's why i listen to classical, the best of both worlds
(especially my favorite composer  0:) 0:) 0:))






Mozart  ;D ;) ;)!!!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: greg on September 14, 2007, 05:24:06 AM




Mozart  ;D ;) ;)!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you scarwe me   :'( :-\ :-[ :( :'(
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 06:26:13 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you scarwe me   :'( :-\ :-[ :( :'(





Trust me, Greg, I have a good idea of how you feel about ol' Wolfie.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: маразм1 on September 14, 2007, 06:37:59 AM
you mean haha van halan's new bassist, Wolfie?  that just sux.  I know he might be great and all, but that little diaper-wearing kid is just wrong.  He wasn't even born yet when Van Halen were already rocking.

d.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: bwv 1080 on September 14, 2007, 10:57:00 AM




I respect 100% that you like Page alot; I like him too.


Actually, Page has for the most part shown a remarkable lack of care in his lead guitar playing since 1968. I couldn't care less how fast he plays or no, when he does play lead, he almost entirely abandons intonation in favor of sounding a bunch of improprerly fretted notes that impress mostly people whom haven't played a musical instrument for any appreciable length of time.

I'm no great or very good player myself, but I do teach, and among every other guitar teacher I've spoken with (dozens in several different states), the fact of Page's basic lack of concern for proper intonation is (has been) accepted.

Listen to the guitar solo on "Heartbreaker", and then (say) Deep Purple's "Highway Star", both roughly from the same period.

That written, Page's songwriting abilities far outshine and balance out the marked deficiencies he has as a player.

Again, I am a nobody, just a middle aged, loser guitar player from New England. But I must impress that it isn't only folks of the "shred generation" whom are aware of the crippling deficiencies in Page's playing.

I am agreeing that Page can be sloppy.  It did not take me long as a teenager to discover that it was not that difficult to mimic passages like the solo break in Heartbreaker.  However, other solos by Page are classic, like Stairway to Heaven or my favorite Page solo which is on Since I Have Been Loving You off of III.  The intonation is good on both of those - but he does not really try to play fast on these either.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 11:05:12 AM
I am agreeing that Page can be sloppy.  It did not take me long as a teenager to discover that it was not that difficult to mimic passages like the solo break in Heartbreaker.  However, other solos by Page are classic, like Stairway to Heaven or my favorite Page solo which is on Since I Have Been Loving You off of III.  The intonation is good on both of those - but he does not really try to play fast on these either.




Those two are really good! I remember being mesmerized by the solo on Since I've Been Loving You, even the version from the film Song Remains the Same. Of course, I've always been extremely stoned during the latter, so the sloppies didn't stand out as much.

Great post, b. and I agree!
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: George on September 14, 2007, 12:46:05 PM

Song Remains the Same. Of course, I've always been extremely stoned during the latter, so the sloppies didn't stand out as much.

Great post, b. and I agree!

Wasn't this just re-released? Anyone heard it yet?
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Don on September 14, 2007, 01:04:03 PM
As time went by, jimi just plain sucked on stage. 

D.

What do you expect from a Chinese Jew.
Title: Re: Jimmy Page...Chinese?
Post by: Haffner on September 14, 2007, 01:05:42 PM
What do you expect from a Chinese Jew.




Oh no!