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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: sonic1 on January 17, 2010, 11:04:30 AM

Title: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: sonic1 on January 17, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
Didn't see any love for Roslavets. Just discovered this guy.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: haydnguy on January 17, 2010, 12:08:18 PM
Didn't see any love for Roslavets. Just discovered this guy.

Yes, he's very good. I have 3 of his CD's. Here is another good one I recommend:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519NLXPO6PL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: some guy on January 17, 2010, 12:22:36 PM
I first heard of Roslavets when someone over at CMG was trashing his chamber symphony, which turned out to be just as charming as f*ck,* of course. Too "harsh" and "atonal" for the someone, but just delightful for me.

I might put that on again right this minute, because I can.

I keep hearing about those violin concertos, but from the descriptions (and from a few clips I've heard) they might be just a trifle too sweet for me. I'd buy them anyway, but I just sent in a $300+ order to emprientes DIGITALes and am feeling poor. (I'm not poor, but I'm feeling that way right this minute, the same minute I'm about to put Roslavets on my already purchased CD player.)

*because we're not supposed to say "fu(k" on the internets.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: haydnguy on January 17, 2010, 12:26:40 PM
I might put that on again right this minute, because I can.


haha I decided to listen to him too. Was going to listen to his concertos but ran into his violin sonatas on Naxos first, so that's what I'm listening to now.  8)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: snyprrr on January 17, 2010, 09:12:09 PM
Iused to have that old Wergo recording of some violin concerto...something "Moon" maybe...with chr. Erdinger, I believe. Ultra late Romantic stuff as I remember.

His SQs I like, both being around 10mins. of Bergian Debussyisms. Alittle chromatic up, a little chromatic down. I also have one of the cello sonatas (though, not THE cello sonata, the other one...) which goes on similarly.

He certainly has a very integrated style



I would have rather seen "Roslavets" Rostov", haha! ;D
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: schweitzeralan on January 19, 2010, 10:15:05 AM
Didn't see any love for Roslavets. Just discovered this guy.
I have a couple of Rosllavets' works on Cd's.  Much of his piano works are derivative of late Scriabin and tend to be considerably more modernist. From what little I read about him, that despite his musical propensities toward the  avant-garde, he survived Stalin's regime.  I like his music very much, and I have some sheet music; some of his preludes and poems.  His orchestral work "In The Hour of the New Moon" is impressionistic and mystical.  Exactly my type.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Dax on January 19, 2010, 12:19:20 PM
Roslavets is undoubtedly a MAJOR composer. Look for stuff on youtube (Hexameron) with the notations.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: haydnguy on January 19, 2010, 10:57:29 PM
One thing about Rolsavet that's rather interesting is that his music evolved in the opposite direction than a lot of composers.

Roslavet's early works are more dissonant than his later works. The later works are more "Romantic" in style. The reason is that the state put pressure on him about his dissonant style and so he "lightened" up a bit.  :)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Luke on January 20, 2010, 01:22:17 AM
Yes, early Roslavets has strong similarities with Scriabin and his thorough-going use of synthetic chords, but taken to the nth degree. Off the top of my head he's the only composer I can think of who uses triple flats/sharps in his music. You sometimes see this notation in the work of theorists like Riemann, and I suppose this fact (that he placed such importance on consistency of notation) gives some idea of the importance Roslavets placed on cogency and logic of his harmonic language.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Dax on January 20, 2010, 12:26:38 PM
he's the only composer I can think of who uses triple flats/sharps in his music.

Alkan has a couple of triple sharps - one in Quasi-Faust. Where do Roslavets' appear?
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Drasko on January 20, 2010, 12:43:45 PM
One thing about Rolsavet that's rather interesting is that his music evolved in the opposite direction than a lot of composers.

Roslavet's early works are more dissonant than his later works. The later works are more "Romantic" in style. The reason is that the state put pressure on him about his dissonant style and so he "lightened" up a bit.  :)

Interesting but not unique, quite a few composers in Soviet Union got 'persuaded' by The Party to abandon their original more avant-garde styles for idiom more common people friendly. Biggest losses on this plan were Mosolov and Popov, huge potentials crushed.

Off the top of my head he's the only composer I can think of who uses triple flats/sharps in his music.

I could be wrong since I actually couldn't read music if my life would depend on it, but this looks pretty flat-tened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oTHIb2akJg
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Luke on January 20, 2010, 03:46:10 PM
No, that's not what I meant - that's a piece with a five flat key signature, but no double or triple flats (that I could see).

Dax - I'd forgotten the Alkan; I do dimly recall noticing that at some point in the past, but it had quite slipped my mind, thank you! Re triple accidentals in Roslavets, the page I always remember is in one of the first two piano sonatas, the first I think. There are others too, I think, but I can never remember where - it's been a while since I looked through any Roslavets scores bar those first two sonatas.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: The new erato on January 29, 2010, 09:43:12 AM
Yes, he's very good. I have 3 of his CD's. Here is another good one I recommend:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519NLXPO6PL._SS500_.jpg)
The Chamber symphony is absolutely marvelous, one of my major discoveries in 2008 - and now I've just found this disc at 6 Euros at abeille....
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: haydnguy on January 29, 2010, 05:43:40 PM
The Chamber symphony is absolutely marvelous, one of my major discoveries in 2008 - and now I've just found this disc at 6 Euros at abeille....

Yes, the Chamber Symphony is very good. Here is what that cover looks like in case anyone is wanting to search for it:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31aMUnyfUCL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: snyprrr on March 06, 2014, 01:03:58 PM
bump- for post-Scriabin pre-Szymanowski swooning...

Master of the Scriabinesque single-movement piece?
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: amw on March 06, 2014, 01:27:25 PM
Roslavet's early works are more dissonant than his later works. The later works are more "Romantic" in style. The reason is that the state put pressure on him about his dissonant style and so he "lightened" up a bit.  :)

Roslavets was more or less "unpersoned" by the Soviet regime due to his dissident politics (he was a founding member of the rival composers' organisation to the one that eventually prevailed): shipped out to some remote outpost, works effectively banned from performance, etc—he tried to simplify his music to appease the authorities, but to no avail. After his death his home was ransacked and many of his manuscripts were destroyed. In the post-Stalin thaw of the 1950s Shostakovich was threatened with censure and dismissal for mentioning Roslavets in one of his composition classes. As late as the 1980s, when his family and German musicologists started pushing for a revival of his music, there were still Soviet authorities responding with harsh criticism of Roslavets's "non-music". (Tikhon Khrennikov's continued control over Russian musical life could offer a partial explanation. Even today Roslavets's music is probably better-known in the West than in the former Soviet Union.) That's my understanding of things anyway.

I quite like the piano and chamber music, a good deal of which is now available on cd. It's sort of like Scriabin except actually good.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Daverz on March 06, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
The Chamber Symphony reminds me of what Toch and Hindemith were doing in the 20s.  I can imagine someone coming to this thinking "Russian composer", and not getting anything like what they expected.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: snyprrr on March 07, 2014, 07:53:33 AM
The Chamber Symphony reminds me of what Toch and Hindemith were doing in the 20s.  I can imagine someone coming to this thinking "Russian composer", and not getting anything like what they expected.

Yes, he sounds like a Russian Frenchman! The opposite of the more Germanic sounding Taneyev?
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Mirror Image on March 17, 2014, 02:10:31 PM
Been getting into Roslavets recently. I've known the composer's name for many years, but I have never bothered to explore any of his music for whatever reasons. Big mistake! Such brooding, shadow laden music. You can feel his frustration in almost every note. As a result of this, I bought these recordings:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/130/MI0001130602.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/182/MI0001182668.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lGIqxELqL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mnEkoQ6%2BL.jpg)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2017, 11:01:11 AM
Been getting into Roslavets recently. I've known the composer's name for many years, but I have never bothered to explore any of his music for whatever reasons. Big mistake! Such brooding, shadow laden music. You can feel his frustration in almost every note. As a result of this, I bought these recordings:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/130/MI0001130602.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/182/MI0001182668.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lGIqxELqL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mnEkoQ6%2BL.jpg)
Just discovering Roslavets. The Chamber Symphony is great - it reminds me of the kind of music associated with the Bauhaus in Germany. In the Hours of the New Moon is a fine, poetic score. Have just ordered the violin concerti and the Viola Sonata.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2017, 11:06:52 AM
Just discovering Roslavets. The Chamber Symphony is great - it reminds me of the kind of music associated with the Bauhaus in Germany. In the Hours of the New Moon is a fine, poetic score. Have just ordered the violin concerti and the Viola Sonata.

Very nice, Jeffrey. You remind that I need to revisit Rosavets’ music as it’s been far too long since I’ve listened to anything from him.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2017, 11:13:21 AM
Very nice, Jeffrey. You remind that I need to revisit Rosavets’ music as it’s been far too long since I’ve listened to anything from him.
Thanks John. The Chamber Symphony (not often a genre I like) has been a great discovery for me.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2017, 11:28:32 AM
Thanks John. The Chamber Symphony (not often a genre I like) has been a great discovery for me.

I like a few chamber symphonies, but my favorites are those of Schoenberg’s.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
I like a few chamber symphonies, but my favorites are those of Schoenberg’s.
Something else for me to discover!  :)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2017, 11:32:47 AM
Something else for me to discover!  :)

Oh, you haven’t heard Schoenberg’s Kammersymphonie Nos. 1 & 2? You must remedy this soon.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2017, 11:47:50 AM
Oh, you haven’t heard Schoenberg’s Kammersymphonie Nos. 1 & 2? You must remedy this soon.
Will do John!
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: snyprrr on September 03, 2017, 07:26:07 AM
Very nice, Jeffrey. You remind that I need to revisit Rosavets’ music as it’s been far too long since I’ve listened to anything from him.

another intriguing Composer
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: nodogen on September 03, 2017, 07:45:40 AM
another intriguing Composer

His piano music is indeed in the same ball park as Scriabin, but not as brilliantly brilliant (IMHO).
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: snyprrr on July 10, 2018, 05:57:21 AM
His piano music is indeed in the same ball park as Scriabin, but not as brilliantly brilliant (IMHO).

I'm seeing now that Scriabin loses me at the end with Sonata 9, 'Vers la Flamme', and the Op.74 Preludes... it's like, with those Preludes, he has now stepped over into what appears to be an OVER LITERALness,...
 
remember how Webern got all spooky with the String Trio pieces, but then got CRYSTALLIZED by the time of the highly etched String Quartet Op.28,... ?... I'm getting the same feeling with Scriabin,... and Bartok for that matter (Malipiero also has a peculiarly morbid style 1914-1917),,, (Prokofiev's 'Visions Fugitives', a style he was not to return to)...

...they all had "mysterious" phases that were later overtaken by a "pruning" technique that made some of their later works much more... "literal"..."pruned"...lol, "Messiaen-like"...


ROSLAVETS, then, seems to be stuck in that Late Scriabin style of which I'm a little less enamored. HOWEVER, I was listening to Hamelin's 'live' Etudes, and they were awesome,... but I didn't quite enjoy the Sonata No.2 as much.

Looking around, I have his PT3, the SQ, most cello works, and the Piano Preludes...

IS THERE LITERALLY A "GREATEST CHAMBER WORK" (not the Ch.Sym.), or Piano Work,... because, so much Roslavets sounds the same to me some times :(
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 21, 2020, 07:54:43 PM
I was revisiting this CD today:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571174846.png)

Two magnificent works by the Russian Nikolai Roslavets. This Chamber Symphony (which employs nine solo woodwind, two horns, trumpet, piano, string quartet and double bass) would come being his second one, and quite possibly the title chamber symphony might be misleading as this is a meaty work lasting almost 56 minutes. An impressive piece with attractive pathos and dissonances. The another work In den Stunden des Neumonds (In the hours of the New Moon) is not a mere filler. It's a haunting, evocative and alluring piece tinged with certain "dark" impressionist gestures. It reminded me of Scriabin, Bax and Debussy at their most somber. A winning CD all-around.
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on December 22, 2020, 12:06:42 AM
I was revisiting this CD today:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571174846.png)

Two magnificent works by the Russian Nikolai Roslavets. This Chamber Symphony (which employs nine solo woodwind, two horns, trumpet, piano, string quartet and double bass) would come being his second one, and quite possibly the title chamber symphony might be misleading as this is a meaty work lasting almost 56 minutes. An impressive piece with attractive pathos and dissonances. The another work In den Stunden des Neumonds (In the hours of the New Moon) is not a mere filler. It's a haunting, evocative and alluring piece tinged with certain "dark" impressionist gestures. It reminded me of Scriabin, Bax and Debussy at their most somber. A winning CD all-around.
Totally agree Cesar - great cover art as well.

The picture reminded me of 'The Great Conjunction' (of Jupiter and Saturn) that we were supposed to be able to witness in the night sky last night. Needless to say it was thick cloud and fog here all evening  ::)
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 22, 2020, 03:58:52 PM
Totally agree Cesar - great cover art as well.

The picture reminded me of 'The Great Conjunction' (of Jupiter and Saturn) that we were supposed to be able to witness in the night sky last night. Needless to say it was thick cloud and fog here all evening  ::)

Nothing different here either. Now we'll have to wait other 20 years for the next conjunction.  ;D
Title: Re: Roslavets' Rig
Post by: vandermolen on December 26, 2020, 03:26:08 AM
I'd forgotten how good the Chamber Symphony is as well.