GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: bvy on June 01, 2008, 04:55:59 PM

Title: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: bvy on June 01, 2008, 04:55:59 PM
I'm just curious. I can't find anything. I expect there are interesting arrangements of his works for organ (recommendations?), but I wonder if he ever composed anything specifically for organ. And if not, why not?
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: springrite on June 01, 2008, 05:37:19 PM
I'm just curious. I can't find anything. I expect there are interesting arrangements of his works for organ (recommendations?), but I wonder if he ever composed anything specifically for organ. And if not, why not?


The only ones I know are organ arrangements:
http://www.allegro.co.uk/dmitri-shostakovich-music-for-organ-p-3358.html
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on June 01, 2008, 06:48:05 PM
He wrote relatively little for solo keyboard to start with, and nothing for solo organ. Perhaps he found its rich timbre at variance with his pessimistic and ironic personality.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: The new erato on June 01, 2008, 10:56:07 PM
Not to mention that Stalin had a dim view of the buildings where organs usually are located.....
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on June 02, 2008, 03:22:01 AM
Regardless of the question of churches and Communism, there are no organs in Russian Orthodox churches;  there is not, therefore, any tradition of Russian organ music for church use.

It is a curious situation where, in fact, the few organs which are in Russia, are in concert halls.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Don on June 02, 2008, 11:58:23 AM
Regardless of the question of churches and Communism, there are no organs in Russian Orthodox churches;  there is not, therefore, any tradition of Russian organ music for church use.

The Rabbi at our temple won't allow any organ music.  Using the Obama example, I must hate organ music.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: greg on June 02, 2008, 12:15:56 PM
Regardless of the question of churches and Communism, there are no organs in Russian Orthodox churches;  there is not, therefore, any tradition of Russian organ music for church use.

It is a curious situation where, in fact, the few organs which are in Russia, are in concert halls.
lol, that must explain why all those OTHER Russian composers hardly wrote anything for organ, either....
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: bvy on June 02, 2008, 03:36:06 PM
lol, that must explain why all those OTHER Russian composers hardly wrote anything for organ, either....

Good point. I'm not finding organ music by Prokofiev, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky or Rach. I'm wondering now if any major late Romantic or 20th century Russian composers composed organ music.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: lukeottevanger on June 02, 2008, 11:54:06 PM
Good point. I'm not finding organ music by Prokofiev, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky or Rach. I'm wondering now if any major late Romantic or 20th century Russian composers composed organ music.

I've got a couple of pieces by Schnittke sitting on my score shelves. Some other stuff too, I'm sure....
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Don on June 03, 2008, 08:12:11 AM
Good point. I'm not finding organ music by Prokofiev, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky or Rach. I'm wondering now if any major late Romantic or 20th century Russian composers composed organ music.

Depends what you consider "major".  I know that Glazunov, Gliere, Taneyev and Gretchaninov composed some organ works.  Check out the "Tsar of Instruments" disc on Chandos for content.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: greg on June 03, 2008, 08:41:00 AM
I've got a couple of pieces by Schnittke sitting on my score shelves. Some other stuff too, I'm sure....
lol, he's "modern".

"who cares if you listen?......"

(who cares if there's organs in Russia or not to play my organ music?)  ;D
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: listener on September 18, 2010, 11:09:05 PM
2 Postludes (in d and F) c. 1925, no opus numbers
2 pieces op.111: Intrada, Funeral Music, memory of Aksell Gallen-Kalleia
 an arrangement of the Passacaglia from Lady Macbeth...op. 29
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: jurajjak on September 19, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
Prokofiev was supposedly a good organ student when he was a teenager at the Conservatory. Though he wrote no organ works, there is a small, simple organ part in the Alexander Nevsky film score (not the cantata version, but the original film score), and small parts for organ or harmonium in Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet.


andrew
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: abidoful on May 25, 2011, 10:20:13 AM
2 Postludes (in d and F) c. 1925, no opus numbers
2 pieces op.111: Intrada, Funeral Music, memory of Aksell Gallen-Kalleia
 an arrangement of the Passacaglia from Lady Macbeth...op. 29
2 pieces op111 are by Jean Sibelius, not by Shostakovich :o
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: eyeresist on May 25, 2011, 05:01:03 PM
Khachaturian's 3rd symphony must be mentioned here.
 
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 25, 2011, 05:09:04 PM
Khachaturian's 3rd symphony must be mentioned here.

Oh, you must mean Katchy!  Way OT, I have always been embarrassed for people who don't have the gumption to write out Shostakovitch and resort to "Shosty".   ::)   

Certainly not you, Eyeresist, you even typed out Khachaturian! Thanks for that.   :)

8)
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: eyeresist on May 25, 2011, 06:03:52 PM
Can't help feeling I'm being mocked here. I often write "Shosty", as it's just plain quicker.

It's often easier to abbreviate these crazy long European names. There is Knap, of course. I find "Rozdhy" saves me having to Google his name each time I write it (though I've almost got it memorised by now). Other Russian conductors include Kond, Mrav and Svet. There's also Celi, of course.
 
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich on May 25, 2011, 07:09:49 PM
There's also Celi, of course.
wut? Short form not possible by definition. Must be Ceeeeeeeeeeliiiiiiiiiiiii.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 26, 2011, 03:11:49 AM
Can't help feeling I'm being mocked here. I often write "Shosty", as it's just plain quicker.

It's often easier to abbreviate these crazy long European names. There is Knap, of course. I find "Rozdhy" saves me having to Google his name each time I write it (though I've almost got it memorised by now). Other Russian conductors include Kond, Mrav and Svet. There's also Celi, of course.

No. I don't even know that about you. Simply mocking the thread starter. It is one of my pet peeves. "Rozdhy" is an exception though, since I can't ever remember how to spell it either. :D

The proper shortening of Shostakovitch is DSCH. Shosty is right out. :D

8)
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 26, 2011, 03:25:50 AM
I mean, why not go flat-out Hollywood with Shosty baby?
 
Dmitri Dmitriyevich, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Sandra on May 26, 2011, 04:08:18 AM
Not to mention that Stalin had a dim view of the buildings where organs usually are located.....

Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 26, 2011, 04:26:59 AM
Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.

I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: cilgwyn on May 26, 2011, 10:40:40 AM
Ahem! I think there is one kind of organ they have in Russian orthodox churches,unless there's something wrong with them,but I won't say what it is in case I get moderated!
On second thoughts,I don't want to think about it. This is a respectable forum,after all.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Scarpia on May 26, 2011, 11:01:19 AM
I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.

I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues. 

In any case, I see nothing controversial in a lack of organ music from Shosty, there are lots of composers who did write much of anything for organ.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: eyeresist on May 26, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
No. I don't even know that about you. Simply mocking the thread starter.

Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.
 
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: DavidW on May 26, 2011, 05:10:08 PM
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more fun than writing DSCH! ;D

Edit: what's really fun is dropping words. ;D
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 26, 2011, 05:14:23 PM
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more than writing DSCH! ;D

Hmmm. It is so... irreverent! And no tin the iconoclastic sense, either. You bad! :)

Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.
 

Yes, exactly. I really didn't think of it in any other way. When this thread was first resurrected that was my first thought; "damn, that bloody 'Shosty' thread is back to plague me!". :)

8)



----------------
Now playing:
The Hanover Band / Goodman - Hob 01 004 Symphony in D 3rd mvmt - Finale: Tempo di Menuetto
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: cilgwyn on May 27, 2011, 02:59:53 AM
I don't recall anyone over at the Havergal Brian calling him 'Bri!',or 'Havy!',although HB is in frequent use.
What about 'Arnie' for Arnold Bax? ("He'll be back!")
Show some respect!
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Baby-kins Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 27, 2011, 04:02:05 AM
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues.

Generalizing, certainly, but not particularly overgeneralizing.  Even in Shostakovich's day, there were not a great many non-Orthodox churches in St Petersburg (and — because of Peter the Great's westernizing enthusiasms, as you note — there were more in Petersburg than, well, anywhere else in Russa) . . .

— There is a lovely historical Islamic Center in Petersburg, though, a testament to the fact that in many lands which once lay 'neath the Czar's sway, Islam was the dominant religion. —

. . . that comparative paucity of non-Orthodox churches, together with Communist oppression of religion (and recall, too, that after a certain point Shostakovich was no longer in his native Petersburg, but was moved to Moscow — he is, as you know, buried at the Novodevichy Monastery — though, to be sure, he moved to Moscow some time before burial became necessary), there was no particular occasion for Shostakovich to compose for the organ, without moving tendentiously to the "Shostakovich didn't write for the organ, because he was atheist" red herring.

That there are organs in a a few secular venues does not necessarily signify.  While living in Petersburg, I attended musical performances in a number of venues which presumably had an organ for concert use.  The instruments were, in a word, in disuse.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 27, 2011, 04:02:51 AM
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.

Well, that is special. Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Florestan on May 27, 2011, 04:05:16 AM
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church,

This seems to imply that church  organ music was somehow actually performed before the Russian Orthodox Church banned it --- not true. Organ music in churches is a strictly Roman Catholic thing (perpetuated in the mainstream Protestant churches as well): the Orthodox Church never had it so there was nothing to ban.
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 27, 2011, 04:09:22 AM
And the sound of the choirs is so rich, there hasn't been the need for organ . . . .
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: DaveF on May 28, 2011, 12:24:29 PM
... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Stravinsky, of course, was another organ-shy modern Russian - I believe the Canticum Sacrum is the only place he uses it.  "The monster never breathes" he is reported to have said.  Clearly he'd never heard some of the gasping, wheezy, asthmatic instruments in British churches, some of which seem to do nothing but breathe.

DF
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 28, 2011, 03:22:03 PM
... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Did we discover who did the organ reduction of the Passacaglia intermezzo from Katerina Izmailova?
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Scarpia on May 28, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
Oddly in Janacek's Taras Bulba, based on the story by Gogol, the main characters experience in a Church is represented by a passage for organ.  He should have known better, clearly. 
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: karlhenning on May 29, 2011, 02:51:15 AM
Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )
Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Scarpia on May 29, 2011, 06:12:18 AM
Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )

He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.

Title: Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
Post by: Florestan on May 29, 2011, 07:01:15 AM
He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.

Ukraine and Poland, actually. What specific characters do you refer to?