Threads on
Bach Keyboard Music.
- Bach Partitas (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15704.0.html)
- Bach English Suites (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3677.0.html)
- Bach French Suites (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29835.0.html) — This thread.
- Bach Toccatas (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4271.0.html)
- Bach Goldberg Variations (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4766.0.html)
- Bach Well-Tempered Clavier (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,768.0.html)
- Bach Well-Tempered Clavier (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29201.0.html) — Second thread.
- Bach Well-Tempered Clavier and Art Of Fugue (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,28686.0.html)
- Bach Art Of Fugue (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1044.0.html)
- Bach Art Of Fugue (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5330.0.html) — Second thread.
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- Favorite Bach Keyboard Music (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8190.0.html)
- Favorite Bach Keyboard Music — Advanced Poll (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
- English Suites vs French Suites (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15430.0.html)
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- Partitas and English Suites on Harpsichord or Clavichord (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,28346.0.html)
- English Suites on Piano (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15883.0.html)
- Goldberg Variations on Piano (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4355.0.html)
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- Bach on Harpsichord, Lute-Harpsichord, Clavichord (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,289.0.html)
- Bach on Piano (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9885.0.html)
- Bach on Piano? (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23182.0.html)
- Preferred Bach Pianist (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16126.0.html)
- Angela Hewitt for playing Bach on Piano (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23773.0.html)
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- Gianluca Luisi: Partitas (Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29803.0.html)
- Glenn Gould: English Suites (Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5826.0.html)
- Andras Schiff: French Suites (Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,398.0.html)
- Glenn Gould: Goldberg Variations (1955, Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20828.0.html)
- Angela Hewitt: Well-Tempered Clavier (Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3207.0.html)
- Pierre Laurent Aimard: Art Of Fugue (Piano) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6189.0.html)
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- Toccata BWV 914 (Harpsichord) — blind comparison (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20245.0.html)
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- To be completed... (Please point me to threads I've missed to add here.)
* * *
My suggestions (my personal top list).
Harpsichord
- Pieter-Jan Belder (2006)
- Blandine Rannou (2001)
- Masaaki Suzuki (1999-2001)
- Christophe Rousset (2004)
- Keith Jarrett (1991)
- David Cates (2001)
Piano
- Evgeni Koroliov (2006)
- Edward Aldwell (1999)
- Angela Hewitt (1995)
- Andras Schiff (1991)
- Wolfgang Rubsam (1994)
- Bernard Roberts (2004)
* * *
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71WUI5Kn+-L._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Pieter-Jan Belder (Harpsichord) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYnI4rl7GfwiX9KFb4_BQFZrujk1l5Gmw)Recorded: 2006.
Total: 1:39:33.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71CxZCQprQL._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Edward Aldwell (Piano) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lLokZf7GO0i5LTviDZ1H37YQO5adhNmNw)Recorded: 1997.
Total: 1:33:21.
//
Has anyone heard Rübsam's new one? (I'm waiting for it to appear on Qobuz - because I'm mean!)
Quote from: Mandryka on May 11, 2020, 03:22:40 AM
Has anyone heard Rübsam's new one? (I'm waiting for it to appear on Qobuz - because I'm mean!)
I forgot about that. I think it's not on Amazon yet.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41WRGC1XRML._QL70_ML2_.jpg)
Bradley Brookshire. I haven't listened to this in a while. It used to be one of my favorites.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RMnnlwLvL._AC_.jpg)
Van Asperen: I love this instrument and his "vibe."
French Suites can be really trippy. These recordings seem like afternoon listening. Brookshire is really intense though, while Van Asperen...I can't remember how it comes off but I have to get back to it as I remember loving it.
I only have a few recordings of these works, but Gavrilov/EMI (piano) would really be my desert-island choice & it's more or less enough for me.
Btw the budget twofer also has Bunin in some further Bach works, likewise good.
Two quite interesting recordins of my recent discoveries.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71or7s10TBL._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Francesco Cera (Harpsichord) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m1No0cNPjtIIJlo5o-IdF5M5edMfk8N3M)
Recorded: 2008.
Suites: 18:06, 17:29, 18:07, 16:37, 20:25, 16:29.
Total: 1:47:38.
(http://bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Leone-M-K03a%5BProClassica-CD%5D.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Monica Leone (Piano) [ Vol. 1 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lFdH3789coULQryR3RpPkE6LvOSTPQLcQ) | Vol. 2 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nDZhZZnM_YugbYBPu6CbHuPjBgIGuiOY4) ]
Recorded: 2004.
Suites: 15:43, 15:07, 17:27, 13:14, 17:05, 16:52.
Total: 1:36:07.
//
The Cera is very strange because it's so different from his other recordings! It's a few years since I heard it last, but I remember blowing hot and cold, sometimes it sounds like the most wonderful performance in the universe, other times it sounds unnatural, with random rubato.
On harpsichord the recordings which have proved the most consistently rewarding for me are the most plain speaking ones -- direct and simple in their expression. Mario Videla recorded all of them. Unfortunately I've never been able to get hold of the recording, but I very much like what he does in his Haenssler recording of the Clavier-Buchlein fur Anna Magdalena Bach, where there are five French suites. And I like Koopman's CD too. I have a feeling that the new Rubsam will blow all the competition out of the water, but as I said, I'm too mean to part with the dosh. It won't be plain speaking though!
On piano Joanna MacGregor is my favourite, for the French Suites.
For the OP, there is also this:
Toccata BWV 914 (harpsichord) - blind comparison (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20245.0.html)
Quote from: aukhawk on May 13, 2020, 01:21:11 AMFor the OP, there is also this:
Toccata BWV 914 (harpsichord) - blind comparison (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20245.0.html)
aukhawk, thank you! Added.
* * *
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71g41+lcy8L._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites (with Preludes) — David Cates (Harpsichord) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kebTTuc2xwzfnI-YyEw2KUiYJ58msgRgI)Recorded: 2001.
Total: 1:35:29 (
with Preludes) / 1:24:52 (
without Preludes).
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81x12wiiKZL._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Bernard Roberts (Piano) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nb4mWV5MA4xmlbk3FSrpJqud8568iWtzo)Recorded: 2004.
Total: 1:35:09.
//
Well, my suggestions for the French suites (in no particular order):
Pieter Jan Belder
Ton Koopman
Kenneth Gilbert
Olivier Beaumont
Alan Curtis
David Moroney
Colin Tilney (clavichord)
I have not yet heard Rübsam's lute harpsichord version.
Quote from: SergeCpp on May 12, 2020, 06:17:05 AM
Two quite interesting recordins of my recent discoveries.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71or7s10TBL._SL500_.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Francesco Cera (Harpsichord) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m1No0cNPjtIIJlo5o-IdF5M5edMfk8N3M)
Recorded: 2008.
Suites: 18:06, 17:29, 18:07, 16:37, 20:25, 16:29.
Total: 1:47:38.
(http://bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Leone-M-K03a%5BProClassica-CD%5D.jpg)
Bach French Suites — Monica Leone (Piano) [ Vol. 1 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lFdH3789coULQryR3RpPkE6LvOSTPQLcQ) | Vol. 2 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nDZhZZnM_YugbYBPu6CbHuPjBgIGuiOY4) ]
Recorded: 2004.
Suites: 15:43, 15:07, 17:27, 13:14, 17:05, 16:52.
Total: 1:36:07.
//
that Leone one is an odd duck. I tried listening to it today. Maybe I'll try again some day. She seems like she makes odd choices. And sometimes she seems like she's practicing.
Stored thread with lost messages: http://archive.md/KxoOH
(https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Paul-J-K02a%5BLyrichord-CD%5D.jpg)
Years ago I read some bad reviews about this series; it's Bach on the lute-harpsichord. I recall listening to a little of it and moving on. I was searching around this morning and came across it so I gave it a go. It's definitely not the adventure that Rubsam is but I do like the sound of the instrument. There seems to be more variation in the registers, more twang and a much thicker bass sound. So, Paul takes things slow though, again, not as slow as Rubsam. Really there's not much comparison between the two but I just mention Rubsam because he goes for the Lute-harpsichord as well. Paul is more conservative though there is rubato. The volume I'm listening to mixes selections from both the French suites and Partitas. I'm hearing more rubato on the partitas. I think this recording is worth hearing. The clarity of voices is really enjoyable and I think there's much more going on than was reflected in some of the reviews. Once I started listening, I couldn't stop.
I think this is quite good. First of all she plays a really wonderful sounding instrument, a copy of a 1702 Mietke. This just sounds phenomenal. She has a great touch with her ornamentations and a she produces a very energetic and buoyant performance.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fEFiy7B4L.jpg)
Quote from: milk on May 11, 2020, 04:49:52 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41WRGC1XRML._QL70_ML2_.jpg)
Bradley Brookshire. I haven't listened to this in a while. It used to be one of my favorites.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RMnnlwLvL._AC_.jpg)
Van Asperen: I love this instrument and his "vibe."
French Suites can be really trippy. These recordings seem like afternoon listening. Brookshire is really intense though, while Van Asperen...I can't remember how it comes off but I have to get back to it as I remember loving it.
Did BVA lower the tuning? I like the album.
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 13, 2020, 02:42:04 AM
Well, my suggestions for the French suites (in no particular order):
Pieter Jan Belder
Ton Koopman
Kenneth Gilbert
Olivier Beaumont
Alan Curtis
David Moroney
Colin Tilney (clavichord)
I have not yet heard Rübsam's lute harpsichord version.
Leonhardt?
Quote from: Mandryka on October 07, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
Francesco Cera?
I can see that Nouvelle Vague hipsters like it.
Bob van Asperen's French Suites still features one of the very best harpsichord sounds I've ever heard in my life. I don't know what it is about it, but it sounds fucking phenomenal! Too bad it's impossible to find on CD.
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 07, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
Bob van Asperen's French Suites still features one of the very best harpsichord sounds I've ever heard in my life. I don't know what it is about it, but it sounds fucking phenomenal! Too bad it's impossible to find on CD.
Christian Vater 1738 in Nuremberg National Museum - as far as I know this is the only recording of the instrument. There are many recordings of modern harpsichords "after" the Christian Vater 1738, but it's not the same! The sound is strong and rich, but not specially refined or delicate. As far as the performances go, it's very decorative - what I mean is, he lays on both ornamentation and rubato liberally. In a sense it could be seen as a preliminary study for his extraordinary hardcore decorated Art of Fugue.
(https://img.discogs.com/tYLs01bv1FGtXhSPyjeKbAZCPdM=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9805554-1573604547-7800.jpeg.jpg)
This is an interesting one, impetuous and passionate. Someone I know compared Blandine Verlet to Martha Argerich, and listening this morning that comparison came to mind.
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 07, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
Bob van Asperen's French Suites still features one of the very best harpsichord sounds I've ever heard in my life. I don't know what it is about it, but it sounds fucking phenomenal! Too bad it's impossible to find on CD.
I know... I waited to long and am now empty handed..... ::)
The good news is that Æolus actually reissues recordings that run out of print - bless them for this old fashioned attitude...
Q
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 07, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
Bob van Asperen's French Suites still features one of the very best harpsichord sounds I've ever heard in my life. I don't know what it is about it, but it sounds fucking phenomenal! Too bad it's impossible to find on CD.
this and Bradley Brookshire are my favorites I've never heard an instrument sound quite like Van Asperen's.
Quote from: milk on October 08, 2020, 12:52:33 AM
this and Bradley Brookshire are my favorites I've never heard an instrument sound quite like Van Asperen's.
Bradley Brookshire uses a modern harpsichord based on the Nuremberg Vater, I agree it sounds different.
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-11/1606439127_wolfgang-rubsam-j_s_-bach-french-suites-bwv812-817-2020.jpg)
Well, so far this makes much more sense to me than his other lute harpsichord recordings of Bach. I like this although I do struggle with having listened to this work too much.
Quote from: milk on December 10, 2020, 07:56:43 PM
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-11/1606439127_wolfgang-rubsam-j_s_-bach-french-suites-bwv812-817-2020.jpg)
Well, so far this makes much more sense to me than his other lute harpsichord recordings of Bach. I like this although I do struggle with having listened to this work too much.
I think the Rübsam approach is most fruitful in polyphony, less so in music where there's only one interesting voice.
Quote from: MusicTurner on May 11, 2020, 05:02:12 PM
I only have a few recordings of these works, but Gavrilov/EMI (piano) would really be my desert-island choice & it's more or less enough for me.
Btw the budget twofer also has Bunin in some further Bach works, likewise good.
I have quite a few versions and this is the one I return to the most.
Quote from: springrite on December 10, 2020, 08:07:41 PM
I have quite a few versions and this is the one I return to the most.
I'm struggling to understand what it is about Gavrilov. To me, it almost sounds like he was playing to a click-track. But admittedly, I just sampled a little bit of it.
Quote from: milk on December 10, 2020, 07:56:43 PM
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-11/1606439127_wolfgang-rubsam-j_s_-bach-french-suites-bwv812-817-2020.jpg)
Well, so far this makes much more sense to me than his other lute harpsichord recordings of Bach. I like this although I do struggle with having listened to this work too much.
I'm with milk on this - to me it makes much more sense in this sort of music (a little of 'Style brisé' feel) than in strict polyphony.
'
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 13, 2020, 12:36:08 AM
to me it makes much more sense in this sort of music (a little of 'Style brisé' feel) than in strict polyphony.
'
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yCXT5Fs-V10/hqdefault.jpg)
Quote from: milk on December 10, 2020, 07:56:43 PM
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-11/1606439127_wolfgang-rubsam-j_s_-bach-french-suites-bwv812-817-2020.jpg)
Well, so far this makes much more sense to me than his other lute harpsichord recordings of Bach. I like this although I do struggle with having listened to this work too much.
Quote from: Mandryka on December 10, 2020, 08:00:44 PM
I think the Rübsam approach is most fruitful in polyphony, less so in music where there's only one interesting voice.
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 13, 2020, 12:36:08 AM
I'm with milk on this - to me it makes much more sense in this sort of music (a little of 'Style brisé' feel) than in strict polyphony.
'
I stand mid between, because I think Rübsam's style makes sense both in polyphonic music and in lute-like music.
French Suites below in my collection - a different instrument for each recording which I like - could add another one and I do like the lute harpsichord - curious what the current thoughts may be on the Rübsam recording? Thanks - Dave :)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjI1Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzE5NDU3MzZ9) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61eIi890nTL._SS500_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyNTk3MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 07, 2022, 09:06:56 AM
French Suites below in my collection - a different instrument for each recording which I like - could add another one and I do like the lute harpsichord - curious what the current thoughts may be on the Rübsam recording? Thanks - Dave :)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjI1Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzE5NDU3MzZ9) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61eIi890nTL._SS500_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyNTk3MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)
The Rubsam is well worth hearing.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 07, 2022, 09:06:56 AM
French Suites below in my collection - a different instrument for each recording which I like -
You may enjoy Paul Beier on lute.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 07, 2022, 09:48:08 AM
The Rubsam is well worth hearing.
Thanks
Mandryka - just checked Spotify and the recording is available - will take a listen soon - Dave :)
The French suites are rather elusive, and most recordings I have heard miss their intimate and small scale character. Some, which I think are successful, are:
On harpsichord:
Christopher Hogwood
Bob van Asperen
Peter-Jan Belder
Ton Koopman
On lute-harpsichord:
Wolfgang Rübsam
On clavichord:
Colin Tilney
On piano:
Wolfgang Rübsam
Ivo Janssen
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 07, 2022, 12:19:46 PM
The French suites are rather elusive, and most recordings I have heard miss their intimate and small scale character. Some, which I think are successful, are:
On harpsichord:
Christopher Hogwood
Bob van Asperen
Peter-Jan Belder
Ton Koopman
On lute-harpsichord:
Wolfgang Rübsam
On clavichord:
Colin Tilney
On piano:
Wolfgang Rübsam
Ivo Janssen
Hi
: premont : - appreciate your 'expert' advise - well, I do have Tilney & Janssen covered; a while back for harpsichord, I culled out David Cates and added Suszuki and happy w/ his performances - SO, adding Rübsam on the lute harpsichord seems reasonable. Thanks again - Dave :)
As for piano version, I find Edward Aldwell's playing unique and somehow antique/medieval-like. While I like Janssen's box, I am not a big fan of his French Suites. Plus 1 for van Asperen harpsichord. Also I like the old recording by Leonhardt.
Way back when, I had a fondness for Bradley Brookshire. I have to delisted. I love Van Asperen. That harpsichord he plays is something special.
Quote from: milk on February 07, 2022, 03:57:17 PM
Way back when, I had a fondness for Bradley Brookshire. I have to delisted. I love Van Asperen. That harpsichord he plays is something special.
Same harpsichord (Christian Vater 1638) in Dantone's Scarlatti v7. Different recording standards, I bet the Dantone gives a truer impression of someone in the hall. The Dantone is very good if you're in the mood for the music.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2022, 12:05:36 AM
Same harpsichord (Christian Vater 1638) in Dantone's Scarlatti v7. Different recording standards, I bet the Dantone gives a truer impression of someone in the hall. The Dantone is very good if you're in the mood for the music.
I'll check that out. Above I wanted to type "re-listen" to Brookshire. Truer than Brookshire or Van Asperen? The Van Asperen seems close-miked.
Quote from: milk on February 08, 2022, 01:30:47 AM
I'll check that out. Above I wanted to type "re-listen" to Brookshire. Truer than Brookshire or Van Asperen? The Van Asperen seems close-miked.
The Brookshire is a harpsichord d'apres Vater 1738, I think "d'après" is a bit of a vague expression, to me it sounds very different. As far as I know Dantone uses the the Nuremberg Vater. And yes Asperen French Suites recording is closely miked, which makes it more symphonic, all the overtones are writ larger than life. Arguably that's not the best way to bring out the poetry in the music. Arguably.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2022, 03:17:32 AM
The Brookshire is a harpsichord d'après Vater 1738, I think "d'après" is a bit of a vague expression, to me it sounds very different. As far as I know Dantone uses the the Nuremberg Vater. And yes Asperen French Suites recording is closely miked, which makes it more symphonic, all the overtones are writ larger than life. Arguably that's not the best way to bring out the poetry in the music. Arguably.
I was mistaken about this -- Dantone's also d'après the one in Nuremberg -- his made by someone called Olivier Fadini.
I'm very fond of the French Suites - probably my favourite Bach keyboard music alongside (but very unalike) The Art of Fugue. I do prefer listening to piano and for a very long time my favoured recording was by Joanna MacGregor, though I now understand that this is a somewhat over-romanticised approach. More recently, my preference has shifted to Zhu Xiao-Mei who plays these pieces, already compact and lean in their very nature, with a wonderfully light and fleet touch.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91v4BF0myKL._SS500_.jpg)
Bach, French Suites, Zhu Xiao-Mei
(Love that cover image which pre-dates the current fad for 'socially distanced' cover art by some years.)
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 07, 2022, 12:19:46 PM
On piano:
Wolfgang Rübsam
I don't always like him, but Rubsam on piano gets so much more out the French Suites than anybody else I've heard. Hearing them with him for the first time was a bit like stepping out into the fresh country air for the first time, having only ever lived in a busy city centre. I have valued them much more since.
Quote from: aukhawk on February 08, 2022, 04:16:20 AM
I'm very fond of the French Suites - probably my favourite Bach keyboard music alongside (but very unalike) The Art of Fugue. I do prefer listening to piano and for a very long time my favoured recording was by Joanna MacGregor, though I now understand that this is a somewhat over-romanticised approach. More recently, my preference has shifted to Zhu Xiao-Mei who plays these pieces, already compact and lean in their very nature, with a wonderfully light and fleet touch.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91v4BF0myKL._SS500_.jpg)
Bach, French Suites, Zhu Xiao-Mei..............
Thanks
Aukhawk for the comments on
Zhu Xiao-Mei - she has done a lot of Bach which I've not heard - but after your thoughts above, I listened to her perform the French Suites on Spotify and really enjoyed! Now, she does these works in 79 mins (on 1 disc) vs. 94 mins for Ivo Janssen and 140 mins for Suzuki on harpsichord - don't believe her tempos are that fast so must be skipping a lot of 'repeats' - attached are excellent reviews of this performance including one that discusses using (or not) repeats by a comparison of David Cates to Suzuki. So, I'd be curious about comments on the importance (positive or negative) of incorporating the repeats, seems to come up often with many different composers and their compositions. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 07, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
Hi : premont : - appreciate your 'expert' advise - well, I do have Tilney & Janssen covered; a while back for harpsichord, I culled out David Cates and added Suszuki and happy w/ his performances - SO, adding Rübsam on the lute harpsichord seems reasonable. Thanks again - Dave :)
What Rübsam on lute harpsichord shows is that the music can be treated as fundamentally contrapuntal - with voices which are as independent of each other as the singers in a madrigal by Marenzio. For me, it has for the moment made it hard to enjoy other ways, I'm sure that's a temporary thing! He said that it's hard to play like that, and I can imagine it is because you somehow have to make it all cohere. There's a lot of Rubsam's poetry in his lute harpsichord Bach, not just Bach's.
I think now that all the keyboard players who play it in a non-madrigalesque way are taking the default easy option - it's a limitation.
When BBC Radio 3 Building a Library did The French Suites they chose two recordings - Mortensen and Hewitt. I quite like the large scale interpretation by Mortensen, but I hadn't heard the Hewitt until just now. It has some memorable moments which make it not totally without interest - some slow movements which she plays with a quiet intensity. But on the whole I think this confirms my view that Bach is not one of Hewitt's strengths.
Quote from: Iota on February 08, 2022, 04:24:44 AM
I don't always like him, but Rubsam on piano gets so much more out the French Suites than anybody else I've heard. Hearing them with him for the first time was a bit like stepping out into the fresh country air for the first time, having only ever lived in a busy city centre. I have valued them much more since.
I think that I prefer Andrea Bacchetti to Rübsam's piano recording, at least when the wind is blowing south.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2022, 08:34:31 AM
I think that I prefer Andrea Bacchetti to Rübsam's piano recording, at least when the wind is blowing south.
Thanks, will check the Bacchetti out.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 08, 2022, 07:17:48 AM
Thanks Aukhawk for the comments on Zhu Xiao-Mei - she has done a lot of Bach which I've not heard - but after your thoughts above, I listened to her perform the French Suites on Spotify and really enjoyed! Now, she does these works in 79 mins (on 1 disc) vs. 94 mins for Ivo Janssen and 140 mins for Suzuki on harpsichord - don't believe her tempos are that fast so must be skipping a lot of 'repeats' ...
Interesting - I wasn't aware of that. Personally I'm not very interested in structural considerations but, if there are repeats to be had then yes I want to hear them - because I'm listening to the music because I like it, so because I like it the more the better. That said, the
French Suites are 'little' pieces by nature and don't need to be overplayed. One commentator describes them as being a development from the
Two-part Inventions. Rubsam (lute-hpschd) clearly an interesting option here. I imagine I like Zhu Xiao-Mei because she doesn't linger over the Sarabandes - I'm afraid I always find Sarabandes tedious in all of Bach's Suites (the Cello Suites the worst). Suzuki (who I do like in the Partitas) I can imagine would seem over-respectful in this lighter music.
MacGregor also fitted them onto a single CD, and for probably 20 years that was the only recording I knew. Partly because of the extreme duration, the final two tracks wouldn't play. ??? It was so wonderful when music started to become available as downloads and I was able to visit A well-known online book store and buy just those two tracks for a few pence each! ;D
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2022, 08:34:31 AM
I think that I prefer Andrea Bacchetti to Rübsam's piano recording, at least when the wind is blowing south.
Interesting comparison as the two recordings exhibit very different approaches. May I call the Bacchetti a minimalist approach? He doesn't sell a divergent or unique interpretation. Sometimes I feel that his performance is faceless and it lacks color, feeling, voice, etc. But sometimes his performance sounds refined and purposefully restrained like a haiku masterpiece. Difficult album! Also I don't like the reverb in the recording much.
As for the Rubsam piano, it is very distinctive, or deviating to some people. I support his intention to present his unique interpretation/expression, but the interpretation doesn't appeal to me personally. I have a similar opinion about the style of Jean-Yves Thibaudet as well. Anyway, glad to see that some people like Rubsam's aestheticism. It is very important and productive that some players keep presenting unique perspectives and innovative interpretations.
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on February 09, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
Interesting comparison as the two recordings exhibit very different approaches. May I call the Bacchetti a minimalist approach? He doesn't sell a divergent or unique interpretation. Sometimes I feel that his performance is faceless and it lacks color, feeling, voice, etc. But sometimes his performance sounds refined and purposefully restrained like a haiku masterpiece. Difficult album! Also I don't like the reverb in the recording much.
If he were playing on a harpsichord, that would be a justifiable thing to say, though maybe not one which would stand up to scrutiny. But he isn't, he's playing on a modern piano. And to bring such an informed approach to playing baroque music on that of all keyboard instruments is rare - in that sense it reminds me of Virginia Black's partitas recording. I hadn't noticed a problem with the sound.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2022, 08:43:33 PM
If he were playing on a harpsichord, that would be a justifiable thing to say, though maybe not one which would stand up to scrutiny. But he isn't, he's playing on a modern piano. And to bring such an informed approach to playing baroque music on that of all keyboard instruments is rare - in that sense it reminds me of Virginia Black's partitas recording. I hadn't noticed a problem with the sound.
Bacchetti's Goldbergs are brisk but full of ornamentation. I'm only finding French suites 5&6 on Apple. It seems rather mainstream compared to Rubsam. I guess everything does. But there artistry here and I wouldn't say it's "minimal." I would say he has a sense of the flow of the music. Perhaps it's on the side of elegance.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2022, 08:43:33 PM
If he were playing on a harpsichord, that would be a justifiable thing to say, though maybe not one which would stand up to scrutiny. But he isn't, he's playing on a modern piano. And to bring such an informed approach to playing baroque music on that of all keyboard instruments is rare - in that sense it reminds me of Virginia Black's partitas recording. I hadn't noticed a problem with the sound.
I will check the Virginia Black recording!