THE solution for ALL YOUR DILEMMAS with the 'Your Top 10 Favorites' thread: :laugh:
Quote from: ritter on January 24, 2018, 06:11:12 AM
I thought Jeux would have (or actually had) tipped the balance in Claude de France's favour...but no :(. Still, you give perfectly legitimate reasons to prefer one composer over the other (even if I do not share them ;) ).
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 24, 2018, 04:45:11 PM
G'day to you, Rafael. I hope everything is well with you. Yeah, you know I do love Claude, but the balance was tipped in Ravel's favor for the afore mentioned reasons. But, you know, we certainly can't control what we like --- we just have to accept what are ears happen to be drawn to. :)
First attempt:
Bizet
Saint-Saëns
Debussy
Pierné
Ravel
Roussel
Koechlin
Tournemire
Sauguet
Dutilleux
Boulez
Machaut
Radigue
Dhomont
Perotin
Risset
Messiaen
Murail
Manoury
Grisey
Mantovani
I guess Mantovani can drop off if I really really really must limit it to 10
Ok let's play again
Berlioz
Bizet
Boulez
F Couperin
Debussy
Dutilleux
Grisey
Messiaen
Rameau
Ravel
Excluding the Franco-Flemish composers, otherwise Josquin would in in the list, replacing Ravel
Voyons...
I'll exclude French composers who were not French born (e.g., Lully, Hahn)..I know, this is "cheating by rigouristy", but OTOH I am not applying GMG's peculiar arithmetic rules, according to which 12 or 15 names fit in a list of 10 :D
Par date de naissance:
Rameau
Berlioz
Chabrier
Debussy
Dukas
Roussel
Schmitt
Ravel
Milhaud
Messiaen
Boulez
(It's curious to see that the chien flasque has not yet appeared on any list)
Berlioz
Fauré
Ferrari
Grisey
Poulenc
Couperin (Louis)
Machaut
Bizet
Ravel
Dhomont
Probably
in no particular order and while I like several composers and pieces a lot I generally do not seem to be in harmony with the French aesthetic (normal for a German, I guess... we always preferred Italy and ocassionally Greece). I'll skip the Franco-Flemish and Medieval composers.
Fauré
Ravel
Rameau
Berlioz
Debussy
Couperin (Francois)
Bizet
Roussel
Saint-Saens
Chausson
Quote from: ritter on January 25, 2018, 12:13:18 AM
(It's curious to see that the chien flasque has not yet appeared on any list)
Personally I know very little by him (I had to google that :-[) but what I know doesn't appeal to me... ;)
I love the music of Satie but unfortunately there are too many French composers I enjoy more than can fit on a top 10 list. I can't even happily narrow it down to 10, unfortunately.
I don't generally like lists, but since mine will probably be different, I thought it might be more interesting (it leans more towards opera and ballet):
Jacques Offenbach
Adolphe Adam
Daniel Auber
Georges Bizet
Louise Farrenc
Louis Theodore Gouvy
Camille Saint-Saens
Maurice Ravel
Jules Massenet
Leo Delibes
Magnard
Milhaud
Saint-Saens
Satie
Tournemire
Cras
Debussy
Ravel
Varèse
Poulenc
Charpentier
Lully
Alkan
Berlioz
Ravel
Debussy
Saint-Saëns
Messiaen
Poulenc
Offenbach
My list will be heavy with the organists: 0:)
Louis Vierne
Cesar Franck (Belgian-French) ;)
Alexandre Guilmant
Charles-Marie Widor
Ernst Chausson
Theodor Dubois
Francis Poulenc
Arthur Honnegger (Swiss-French) 0:)
Olivier Messiaen
Pierre Boulez
Alkan
Debussy
Faure
Machaut
Dutilleux
Boulez
Ravel
Francaix
Cras
Berlioz
PS: Kimi asked me to add Francaix. (He took the place I had originally given to Chausson)
In alphabetical order:
Berlioz
Chausson
Cras
Debussy
Fauré
Magnard
Poulenc
Ravel
Ropartz
Saint-Saëns
Berlioz
Bizet
Couperin f
Charpentier
Desprez
Dufay
La Rue
Leonin
Machaut
Perotin
Saint-Saens
What were the French composers doing during the Classical Era? ::)
In alphabetical order, again:
Berlioz
Boulez
Debussy
Fauré
Josquin des Prez
Machaut
Messiaen
Rameau
Ravel
Varèse
Quote from: The One on January 25, 2018, 12:54:52 PM
What were the French composers doing during the Classical Era? ::)
Worrying about shaving their necks?
Sticking to post-Renaissance composers..
Dutilleux
Ravel
Debussy
Fauré
Saint-Saëns
Alkan
Berlioz
Rameau
Fr. Couperin
L. Couperin
Berlioz
Bizet
Koechlin
Milhaud
Pierné
Ravel
Ropartz
Schmitt
Tournemire
Vierne
Man, this is difficult...
Ravel
Debussy
Faure
Roussel
Messiaen
Milhaud
Poulenc
Saint-Saens
Magnard
d'Indy
Berlioz
Ravel
Debussy
Messiaen
Rameau
Lully
Dutilleux
Saint-Saens
Charpentier
Poulenc
Roussel
Berlioz
Dutilleux
Milhaud
Debussy
Saint-Saëns
Ravel
Dukas
Franck
Poulenc
Honegger
I would have put Honegger, but I didn't think that Suisse Romande counts as French. (Not sure who I would have taken out.)
Quote from: The One on January 25, 2018, 12:54:52 PM
What were the French composers doing during the Classical Era? ::)
This kind of thing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxWByfy58p4)
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on January 25, 2018, 03:44:02 PM
I would have put Honegger, but I didn't think that Suisse Romande counts as French. (Not sure who I would have taken out.)
I think being born in France, living many years in Paris, and being part of
Les Six should make
Honegger just a little French! ;)
But...I am not in charge of the rules! $:) 0:)
There are no « hard » rules ;). Some have mentioned Franck (a belgian), others Honegger, Gouvy (born in Germany), Hahn (foreign born). What's important is that they all had a very important french connection, mainly through citizenship and the use of the French language.
Quote from: Cato on January 25, 2018, 04:16:36 PM
I think being born in France, living many years in Paris, and being part of Les Six should make Honegger just a little French! ;)
But...I am not in charge of the rules! $:) 0:)
That's good enough for me. By knowledge of his biographical data came from CD booklets, which always seemed to describe him as Swiss.
Quote from: André on January 25, 2018, 05:54:21 PM
There are no « hard » rules ;). Some have mentioned Franck (a belgian), others Honegger, Gouvy (born in Germany), Hahn (foreign born). What's important is that they all had a very important french connection, mainly through citizenship and the use of the French language.
In view of that, Honegger is restored to my list.
I don't know if I can make 10 but I'll give it a shot:
Debussy
Ravel
Messiaen
Poulenc
Faure
Saint-Saens
Berlioz
Nope... that's it - only 7. :)
Bokanowski
Ferreyra
Groult
Radigue
Ferrari
Dhomont
Gobeil
André
Gibello
Berlioz
Damn, I forgot Ferrari..........who is not Italian like I sometimes forget!!!!!!
Well, be fair, his name is Italian (because his ancestry is Italian), and he did die in Italy....
Bokanowski isn't Polish, either.
And Ferreyra was born in Argentina.
The whole "nationality" thing is as fraught with peril as race and gender are.
Quote from: some guy on January 27, 2018, 06:01:37 AMThe whole "nationality" thing is as fraught with peril as race and gender are.
No, it isn't at all - or rather: only for those who hold
nationality to be something sacred, or who think that there's something wrong with people with multiple or ambiguous nationalities. But just like with racism, antisemitism or anti-muslim hatred, the only real problem are these resentful persons themselves. ::)
Quote from: Christo on January 27, 2018, 06:53:26 AM
No, it isn't at all - or rather: only for those who hold nationality to be something sacred, or who think that there's something wrong with people with multiple or ambiguous nationalities. But just like with racism, antisemitism or anti-muslim hatred, the only real problem are these resentful persons themselves. ::)
There is Chopin under French composers on wikipedia ;)
Quote from: The One on January 27, 2018, 07:21:36 AMThere is Chopin under French composers on wikipedia ;)
Both Polish and French - as indeed he was. :)
Quote from: Christo on January 27, 2018, 07:34:55 AM
Both Polish and French - as indeed he was. :)
Yes, but despite his long period there, could you call him a French composer? ::)
Quote from: The One on January 27, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
Yes, but despite his long period there, could you call him a French composer? ::)
Chopin was neither French, nor Polish, nor Turkish, nor Icelander...nor whatever. He was one of the greatest "island" composers of all time. He shot out of nowhere, had no obvious antecedents, and carved his own path relying solely on his own instincts. He's as unclassifiable as it gets.
I like calling him French because he rose to fame there. I
want to say he could've rose to fame almost anywhere where his talents would've been nurtured. But France it is. :)
Reynaldo Hahn should be considered as French as his family settled in France when he was only 3. Except for his baby life, everything about him is french.
This is not the case of Eugene Ysaye (great composer !) who never took the french nationality.
The case of Meyerbeer is sort of in between.
Rameau
Fauré
Charpentier, M.-A.
Saint-Saëns
Clérambault
Couperin, F.
Lully
Debussy
Berlioz
Ravel
Quote from: Spineur on January 27, 2018, 10:56:21 PM
Reynaldo Hahn should be considered as French as his family settled in France when he was only 3. Except for his baby life, everything about him is french.
This is not the case of Eugene Ysaye (great composer !) who never took the french nationality.
The case of Meyerbeer is sort of in between.
Jacques Offenbach, that quintessential french composer, was born Jacob Eberst in Cologne, Germany, where his father was the synagogue's cantor. He came to Paris at the age of 14. According to Wikipedia, Paris was the only place where a jewish musician could develop a career at the time (1833). The author of
La vie parisienne and countless can-cans seems to have been French almost by accident. No problem, we'll gladly take him !
Quote from: André on January 28, 2018, 07:44:19 AM
Jacques Offenbach, that quintessential french composer, was born Jacob Eberst in Cologne, Germany, where his father was the synagogue's cantor. He came to Paris at the age of 14. According to Wikipedia, Paris was the only place where a jewish musician could develop a career at the time (1833). The author of La vie parisienne and countless can-cans seems to have been French almost by accident. No problem, we'll gladly take him !
Wasn't Mendelssohn in the middle of his career around that time, though? Perhaps his case is different because of his family's conversion.
Des Prez
Lully
L.Couperin
F.Couperin
Delalande
Rameau
Alkan
Debussy
Ravel
Poulenc
I suppose I'll give my list now:
Ravel
Debussy
Dutilleux
Poulenc
Honegger (yes, he's French despite what the music historians say!)
Saint-Saëns
Koechlin
Duruflé
Pierné
Varèse
This is the Swiss 20-franc banknote
(http://currencyguide.eu/chf-en/Switzerland-20-Francs-obverse.jpg)
???! You are selling one of the Swiss national heroes to France. Maybe king ubu has something to say... ;D
Quote from: GioCar on January 28, 2018, 08:34:00 AM
This is the Swiss 20-franc banknote
(http://currencyguide.eu/chf-en/Switzerland-20-Francs-obverse.jpg)
???! You are selling one of the Swiss national heroes to France. Maybe king ubu has something to say... ;D
Well, it's not like a knife-wielding Swiss Army platoon is gonna come across the border...
Let's see Honegger was born in France. He spent most of his life there and is recognized as a Swiss composer just because his parents were from Switzerland? That's like saying I'm actually Irish because most of my ancestors came from there and totally ignoring the fact that I was born and raised in the US. I don't buy it at all. Honegger's as French as Béchamel sauce.
Quote from: Mahlerian on January 28, 2018, 08:02:38 AM
Wasn't Mendelssohn in the middle of his career around that time, though? Perhaps his case is different because of his family's conversion.
Mendelssohn was a different case because his parents had already converted and he was raised protestant christian.
But Meyerbeer (born Jakob Liebmann Meyer Beer) did not convert as far as I know and he had a regular musical education and career in Germany and Austria. Meyerbeer's father was an important figure in the ca. 1800 Berlin Jewish community and when his wife Amalia (the composer's mother) received an order from the Queen of Prussia the design of the medal was changed for her and the usual cross replaced by a portrait of the queen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Meyerbeer#Early_years
I am not an expert on European antisemitism but it seems that the first half of the 19th century was not a particularly bad time. Moscheles also had already a successful career as a Jew but converted in his 30s to the Church of England.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2018, 08:46:11 AM
Let's see Honegger was born in France. He spent most of his life there and is recognized as a Swiss composer just because his parents were from Switzerland? That's like saying I'm actually Irish because most of my ancestors came from there and totally ignoring the fact that I was born and raised in the US. I don't buy it at all. Honegger's as French as Béchamel sauce.
My cd collection is arranged by nationalities/country of origin or of settlement. I have put Honegger, Martin, Lekeu and Franck with the French. I do have a belgian section, which covers both french and flemish-speaking composers (Ysaÿe, Vieuxtemps, van Poot, Gilson, Jongen, Devreese, Meulemans, etc). Why, then, assign Franck and Lekeu (both belgian born) to France? Simply because they were francophones who settled in the Hexagon for the rest of their life (although Lekeu's was very short). And also because I had a certain number of recordings (let's say a critical mass, however small) from a lot of belgian composers.
In the case of Frank Martin, he is a pure swiss product, bicultural and bilingual (German-French). So, why not have a swiss section ? Simply because there's so little composers hailing from there (Huber and Raff are others, and I put them among the austro-german composers). It's an editorial/executive decision, then, not based strictly on facts such as what passport they held :D.
In the case of Honegger, it's not as clear cut as you say. He always kept ties to Switzerland, having started his musical studies at the Zürich Conservatory. He was 17, so presumably he had been sent to live there with a relative (I'm makin an educated guess here). He continued his studies, had most of his career and died in Paris. His 4th symphony is an homage to Basel, a swiss city at the border of both France and Germany. It contains musical references to
geggenkusik, traditional carnival tunes from alemanic Switzerland. And it should not be forgotten that the name Honegger is strongly Swiss, not French-based. The Swiss central bank must have had good reasons to consider him one of their illustrious sons. You don't bestow that kind of recognition on someone whose story, credentials or attachment to the
mère-patrie could be questioned.
But, all things considered, the balance of elements plus the absence of a strong swiss musical tradition tipped the scale towards France, but strictly for the purpose of making a practical decision. I might have decided otherwise if I had, say, 20+ recordings of other swiss composers :D.
Quote from: André on January 28, 2018, 11:40:12 AM
My cd collection is arranged by nationalities/country of origin or of settlement. I have put Honegger, Martin, Lekeu and Franck with the French. I do have a belgian section, which covers both french and flemish-speaking composers (Ysaÿe, Vieuxtemps, van Poot, Gilson, Jongen, Devreese, Meulemans, etc). Why, then, assign Franck and Lekeu (both belgian born) to France? Simply because they were francophones who settled in the Hexagon for the rest of their life (although Lekeu's was very short). And also because I had a certain number of recordings (let's say a critical mass, however small) from a lot of belgian composers.
In the case of Frank Martin, he is a pure swiss product, bicultural and bilingual (German-French). So, why not have a swiss section ? Simply because there's so little composers hailing from there (Huber and Raff are others, and I put them among the austro-german composers). It's an editorial/executive decision, then, not based strictly on facts such as what passport they held :D.
In the case of Honegger, it's not as clear cut as you say. He always kept ties to Switzerland, having started his musical studies at the Zürich Conservatory. He was 17, so presumably he had been sent to live there with a relative (I'm making an educated guess here). He continued his studies, had most of his career and died in Paris. His 4th symphony is an homage to Basel, a swiss city at the border of both France and Germany. It contains musical references to geggenkusik, traditional carnival tunes from alemanic Switzerland. And it should not be forgotten that the name Honegger is strongly Swiss, not French-based. The Swiss central bank must have had good reasons to consider him one of their illustrious sons. You don't bestow that kind of recognition on someone whose story, credentials or attachment to the mère-patrie could be questioned.
But, all things considered, the balance of elements plus the absence of a strong swiss musical tradition tipped the scale towards France. I might have decided otherwise if I had, say, 20+ recordings of other swiss composers :D.
Certainly food for thought here, Andre.
Quote from: The One on January 27, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
Yes, but despite his long period there, could you call him a French composer? ::)
I think he was a composer who primarily benefitted from other pioneers of Polish miniature genres, particularly Szymanowska. That kind of influence made him a national Polish icon, surely.
Quote from: André on January 28, 2018, 11:40:12 AMMy cd collection is arranged by nationalities/country of origin or of settlement. I have put Honegger, Martin, Lekeu and Franck with the French.
Nice to learn; my cd collection is arranged the same way. But with Honegger in the Swiss section (mainly Martin, Schoeck, Honegger and Wissmer, no Raff) and Franck in the Belgian (a bit larger because of all the Flemish nationalists). Even have a three cd Liechtenstein section (all three by Joseph Rheinberger :D) and made a completely arbitrary - seperating Mozart from Beethoven - divide between 'Austria' and 'Germany' because an Austro-German section (I had one, at first) became too big. Also convenient are 'culturally autonomous' sections like Euskadi, Scotland, Wales, the Faroer, the Volga Republics - but not Quebec, I must confess ;D)
I use the composer first name by alphabetical order. Although M is the middle of the alphabet, the section A-M has more than 2/3 of the recordings and the N-Z section only 1/3 despite the very thick W (Wolfgang :-*) section.
Except that there are so many first name that begin with an A in most languages, I really do not know why the imbalance is so large...
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 27, 2018, 08:25:06 PM
Chopin was neither French, nor Polish, nor Turkish, nor Icelander...nor whatever. He was one of the greatest "island" composers of all time. He shot out of nowhere, had no obvious antecedents, and carved his own path relying solely on his own instincts. He's as unclassifiable as it gets.
I like calling him French because he rose to fame there. I want to say he could've rose to fame almost anywhere where his talents would've been nurtured. But France it is. :)
I think this is a really cool and insightful post. Good stuff.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 27, 2018, 08:25:06 PM
Chopin was neither French, nor Polish, nor Turkish, nor Icelander...nor whatever. He was one of the greatest "island" composers of all time. He shot out of nowhere, had no obvious antecedents, and carved his own path relying solely on his own instincts. He's as unclassifiable as it gets.
I like calling him French because he rose to fame there. I want to say he could've rose to fame almost anywhere where his talents would've been nurtured. But France it is. :)
I'm afraid we're confusing nationality with
nationalism, then. But nationalism was not a real concern to his generation of European composers/musicians, who normally held a more cosmopolitan/Europena outlook, the same applies to e.g. Rubinstein, or John Field, Liszt, Schumann. In other words: nationalism and national styles came one or two generations later, but that doesn't deny Chopin's Polish nationality as well as him being also French. (We even call John Field an "Irish" composer for good reasons, though there was no Irish nationality in his age, nor an Irish 'national' let alone musical tradition, nor did he live in Ireland or even identify with Ireland.)
Solage
Grimace
Josquin
Rameau
Debussy
Messiaen
Dutilleux
Boulez
Dusapin
Murail
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2018, 08:08:27 AM
I suppose I'll give my list now:
Ravel
Debussy
Dutilleux
Poulenc
Honegger (yes, he's French despite what the music historians say!) Boulanger
Saint-Saëns
Koechlin
Duruflé
Pierné
Varèse
Since I can't have Honegger, and since his Swiss-ness has been heavily debated, I'll substitute Lili Boulanger.
Sauguet
Tournemire
Debussy
Ravel
Koechlin
Magnard
Durufle
Damase
Jean Cras
Honegger (if allowed) otherwise Poulenc for the Organ Concerto.
On second thought, I will be more inclusive and include composers at one time under French rule
Haydn
Beethoven
Schubert
Rossini
Chopin
Schumann
etc.
Since there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, the rule is apparently that if you put a composer on the list you are asserting that you personally perceive the composer as French. Presumably their cultural influences (both ways) have more to do with it than their passport. I originally left Honegger off (I don't remember if I put him back) because he struck me as Swiss rather than French (which implies a somewhat more eclectic set of influences). I did not make that choice based on a detailed knowledge of his background or biography.
Quote from: NikF on January 29, 2018, 06:58:43 AM
I think this is a really cool and insightful post. Good stuff.
Thanks, Nik! Chopin could be from Saturn and I'd be happy.
Boulez
Debussy
Dhomont
Fauré
Josquin
Magnard
Messiaen
Murail
Parmegiani
Poulenc
I tend to think of Honegger as Swiss. 'Symphony 4: The Delights of Basel' etc although I know that he spent much time in France.
Total vote now, with a new runner up:
Debussy (21x)
Ravel (21x)
Berlioz (14x)
Poulenc (13x)
Saint-Saens (13x)
Messiaen (12x)
Fauré (10x)
Boulez (9x)
Rameau (9x)
Dutilleux (8x)
Bizet (6x)
Des Prez, Josquin (6x)
Couperin, F. (5x)
Dhomont (5x)
Machaut (5x)
Milhaud (5x)
Roussel (5x)
Tournemire (5x)
Alkan (4x)
Cras (4x)
Honegger* (4x)
Koechlin (4x)
Lully (4x)
Murail (4x)
Pierné (4x)
Charpentier (3x)
Chausson (3x)
Couperin, L. (3x)
Duruflé (3x)
Magnard (3x)
Varèse (3x)
Dukas (2x)
Ferrari (2x)
Franck* (2x)
Grisey (2x)
Offenbach (2x)
Parmegiani (2x)
Radigue (2x)
Ropartz (2x)
Sauguet (2x)
Schmitt (2x)
Vierne (2x)
Adam
Andre (André)
Auber
Bokanowski
Boulanger, Lili
Chabrier
Clérambault
Damase
Delalande
Delibes
Dubois
Dusapin
Farrenc
Ferreyra
Francaix
Gibello
Gobeil
Gouvy
Grimace
Groult
Guilmant
d'Indy
Manoury
Mantovani
Massenet
Perotin
Risset
Satie
Solage
Widor
*) Possibly received less votes because of their mixed nationalities
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2018, 10:38:21 PM
Total vote now, with a new runner up:*) Possibly received less votes because of their mixed nationalities
After deciding that Honegger did not feel French to me I substituted d'Indy. If my change is allowed, you should subtract one Honegger and add d'Indy, picking up the rear.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 25, 2018, 04:35:50 AM
I don't generally like lists, but since mine will probably be different, I thought it might be more interesting (it leans more towards opera and ballet):
Jacques Offenbach
Adolphe Adam
Daniel Auber
Georges Bizet
Louise Farrenc
Louis Theodore Gouvy
Camille Saint-Saens
Maurice Ravel
Jules Massenet
Leo Delibes
As I predicted, not much love for my guys and gals!!! Six of them have not received any additional votes!! Still happy with my choices though...
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on January 29, 2018, 11:14:18 PM
After deciding that Honegger did not feel French to me I substituted d'Indy. If my change is allowed, you should subtract one Honegger and add d'Indy, picking up the rear.
Okay, will oblige with the next count. ;)
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2018, 10:38:21 PM
Total vote now, with a new runner up:
André
BTW: not sure who proposed a composer supposedly named "André" - if I don't know him, who does? ::)
Sauguet x 2. Now, I wonder who they could be?
8)
You lot should listed to the Symphonie by Damase.
A most life-affirming, charming and inspiriting work with a redemptive conclusion. The whole disc is good.
[asin]B00M2D7MY0[/asin]
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2018, 10:38:21 PM
Total vote now, with a new runner up:
Lully (3x)
Lully
Misplaced one vote for Lully. Should be four in total. :)
Quote from: Draško on January 30, 2018, 12:58:26 AMMisplaced one vote for Lully. Should be four in total. :)
Thanks! #willdo :)
I would have included Boulanger, Debussy and Ravel but unfortunately 10 just isn't a big enough list. Or if we could confine the list only to composers from before 1950 it would be much easier to include them...............
Quote from: Trout on January 29, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Boulez
Debussy
Dhomont
Fauré
Josquin
Magnard
Messiaen
Murail
Parmegiani
Poulenc
I like your taste in French music 8)
Not mentioned, thus far, AFAIK (just a few names I'm thinking of):
Ibert
Lalo
Messager
Caplet
Barraqué
Langlais
Alain
Dupré
Gossec
Le Flem
Ohana
Tailleferre
Jolivet
Daniel-Lésur
Halévy
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2018, 11:38:36 PM
BTW: not sure who proposed a composer supposedly named "André" - if I don't know him, who does? ::)
I assume that's Mark Andre, who is pretty good at composing and being a nerd (maybe not in that order).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJAUyI4aww&app=desktop
Not sure if the accent aigu is compulsory.
Unordered:
Ravel
Fauré
Varèse
Boulez
Couperin, F.
Messiaen
There are other French composers I like to an extent (Berlioz, Rameau, Poulenc, Grisey, Schaeffer, Barraqué, some others) but I would be hard pressed to call them favourites.
I guess this cannot be difficult . . . in alphabetical order:
Alkan
Berlioz
Couperin, François
Couperin, Louis
Debussy
Koechlin
Ravel
Roussel
Saint-Saëns
Satie
Honorable mention (i.e., wish I might have squeezed them in):
Boulez
Fauré
Messiaen
Varèse (is he French?)
Not included, even though I love 'em, parce qu'ils ne sont pas vraiment français:
Chopin
Stravinsky
Tchaikovsky
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 30, 2018, 04:32:47 AM
Varèse (is he French?)
Could be argued either way. The overwhelming majority of his surviving works was produced in the United States. On the other hand, his music is steeped in Berlioz and the impressionists, he strikes me very much as someone who lived and breathed the music of France. The lone surviving early piece
Un grand sommeil noir gives an indication of his roots, which I don't think he ever fully escaped, if indeed he wanted to.
Quote from: Crudblud on January 30, 2018, 05:53:24 AM
Could be argued either way. The overwhelming majority of his surviving works was produced in the United States. On the other hand, his music is steeped in Berlioz and the impressionists, he strikes me very much as someone who lived and breathed the music of France. The lone surviving early piece Un grand sommeil noir gives an indication of his roots, which I don't think he ever fully escaped, if indeed he wanted to.
Verily.
Quote from: Christo on January 30, 2018, 04:08:06 AM
Not mentioned, thus far, AFAIK (just a few names I'm thinking of):
Daniel-Lésur
Daniel-Lesur (no accent).
Rodolphe Kreutzer
André Grétry (only french by adoption)
Philippe Hersant
Quote from: Christo on January 30, 2018, 04:08:06 AM
Not mentioned, thus far, AFAIK (just a few names I'm thinking of):
Ibert
Lalo
Messager
Caplet
Barraqué
Langlais
Alain
Dupré
Gossec
Le Flem
Ohana
Tailleferre
Jolivet
Daniel-Lésur
Halévy
I've bolded those I might add if the list went up to 25. Think also of
Auric, Canteloube, David ...
Quote from: Christo on January 30, 2018, 04:08:06 AM
Not mentioned, thus far, AFAIK (just a few names I'm thinking of):
Ibert
Lalo
Messager
Caplet
Barraqué
Langlais
Alain
Dupré
Gossec
Le Flem
Ohana
Tailleferre
Jolivet
Daniel-Lésur
Halévy
Langlais, Alain, Canteloube and Le Flem could have been on my list and certainly Auric for his magical 'Beauty and the Beast' film score.
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2018, 11:38:36 PM
BTW: not sure who proposed a composer supposedly named "André" - if I don't know him, who does? ::)
Not sure how you could be not sure. It's right there in my post. My post, with my handle on top and everything, just like this one.
And amw is correct, the accent apparently went when he changed from Marc to Mark. So not only not compulsory, compulsory to NOT have it.
So I succomb to GMG list mania - by order of preference
Claude Debussy for Pelleas et Melisande
Francis Poulenc for Le dialogue des Carmelites
Maurice Ravel for Daphnis et Cloe
J-P Rameau for les indes galantes
Georges Bizet for Carmen
Jules Massenet for Werther
Hector Berlioz for les nuits d'été
Henri Dutilleux for Tout un monde Lointain
Charles Koechlin for The jungle book
César Franck for Les sept dernières paroles du Christ
Quote from: amw on January 30, 2018, 04:14:43 AM
I assume that's Mark Andre, who is pretty good at composing and being a nerd (maybe not in that order).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJAUyI4aww&app=desktop
Not sure if the accent aigu is compulsory.
I would have put him on my list if it weren't for the complexities of things like nationality..........also I am pretty sure he officially changed his name from Marc André to Mark Andre as a German.
It's true.
I knew about the Marc to Mark part of things, but I completely missed the whole German thing.
So yeah. Mark Andre is officially NOT one of my favorite French composers.
But he is one of my favourite European composers at any rate. ;D
That's a particularly difficult question for me, since apart from Bach, Handel & Mozart, the music that I listen to and enjoy most is by the 19th & early 20th Century French 'impressionist' composers (& their progeny), and the early Burgundian and Franco-Flemish schools. I'd have trouble choosing a top ten for either of those two periods, let alone a combined list.
To make it easier, I won't include the Belgian or Netherlandish composers of the Franco-Flemish School--sometimes known as the "Dutch School", though it did include parts of northern France. Which means that I won't be considering Ciconia (Belgian), Ockeghem (Netherlands or Belgium), La Rue (Tournai, so Belgian), Isaac (Brabant, Flanders, or poss. German), Pipelare (Antwerp), Obrecht (Ghent), Orto (Tournai), De Monte (Mechelen, Flanders or Belgium), or Lassus (Mons--Habsburg Netherlands, or Belgium), but will include the French & Burgundian schools. (Though among the Burgundian School, I'll leave out Dunstable and Morton, since they were both English.)
My top ten (or at least, the composers that I've listened to most over the past several years):
Josquin Desprez
Claude Debussy
Maurice Ravel
Guillaume Dufay
Guillaume de Machaut
Philippe De Vitry
Loyset Compere
Guillaume Faugues
Eustache Du Caurroy
Gabriel Faure
A bit easier--here are my favorite 10 pre-Baroque French composers:
Josquin Desprez
Guillaume Dufay
Guillaume Machaut
Philippe De Vitry
Loyset Compere
Gilles Binchois
Perotin
Guillaume Faugues
Jean Mouton
Eustache Du Caurroy
Other worthy mentions: Antoine Busnois, Antoine Brumel, Firminus Caron, Pierre La Rue, Jean Richafort, Leonin or Leoninus, etc..
And, here are my top 10 post-Renaissance French composers:
Claude Debussy
Maurice Ravel
Gabriel Faure
Marc-Antoine Charpentier
François Couperin
Jean-Philippe Rameau
Jean-Baptiste Lully
Albert Roussel
Charles Koechlin
Erik Satie
Other worthy mentions: L. Couperin, Ropartz, Franck, Magnard, Pierne, Saint-Saens, Duparc, Milhaud, Rebel, Chausson, etc.
A very valid point, Josquin. Like other countries around it, particularly on its northern marches, France before the XVth century had shifting borders, vastly different musical/visual arts cultures (esp south of the Loire river) and also substantially different languages - nothing at all like today's French language. Northern France was much closer in all respects to what eventually became Belgium than it was to, say, Aquitaine, Touraine, Languedoc, Savoie and Provence.
French became the language of the royal administration in 1539 only. The Grandfather of modern french literature, Michel Montaigne (1533-1592) was the first to use it (modern French) in his writings. He mentioned that he was writing for « few men, and a few years only ». « If my work had been planned for the long term, I would not have chosen French », and: « Since I was born, half of it has changed. Who knows what it will be like in 50 years? ».
With that in mind I hesitate to consider composers from the Middle Ages or Early Renaissance in the same light as those who came after Kings Charle VII up to François Ier had unified the kingdom in the 15th-16th centuries. France underwent dramatic changes during and following the 100 Years War (1337-1453). It is quite safe to say that it was not the same country before and after.
Quote from: André on January 31, 2018, 05:36:37 PM
The Grandfather of modern french literature, Michel Montaigne (1533-1592) was the first to use it (modern French) in his writings.
Michel Eyquem de Montaigne. His
Essais are in fact closer to a philosophy treatise. I keep returning to this extraordinary book.
Quote
France underwent dramatic changes during and following the 100 Years War (1337-1453). It is quite safe to say that it was not the same country before and after.
Certainly true of northern France. Not really true of southern France which was affected by the 100 y war only through the food shortages.
Saint-Saens, Berlioz, Faure, Ravel, Rameau, Roussel, Schmitt, Poulenc, M-A Charpentier, Debussy.
There are others of course, but these are the French composers that I listen to most often. Indeed, I would say that Saint-Saens, along with Bruckner and Beethoven are among my top favorite composers. thanks!
I haven't participated here yet! Time to remedy that. In order of preference I guess:
Saint-Saëns
Roussel
Poulenc
Ravel
Magnard
Gouvy
Alkan
Dubois
Schmitt
Pierné
Honorable mentions: d'Indy, Fauré, Cras, Berlioz
I've just ordered a CD of music by Jean-Roger Ducasse - maybe that will join my list in due course!
Let's have another think:
Sauguet
Damase
Magnard
Debussy
Tournemire
Koechlin
Durufle
Alain
Cras
Poulenc (for the Organ Concerto)
Berlioz
Debussy
Escaich
Faure
Ibert
Pierne
Poulenc
Ravel
Roussel
Widor
Tough to eliminate: Francaix, F. Couperin, Rameau, Saint-Saens
I forgot Koechlin and Ropartz. Two composers who deserve to be mentioned.
Poulenc
Saint-Saëns
Damase
Ravel
Roussel
Fauré
Magnard
Cras
Dutilleux
Schmitt
Honorable mentions: Canteloube, Berlioz, Chausson
I'm woefully under-familiar with Koechlin's music for some odd reason. I need to rectify that...
Here's my 10, aprt from the first two, in no particular order -
Berlioz
Ravel
Roussel
Debussy
Faure
Koechlin
Alkan
Saint-Saens
Cras
Scratching around for a 10th - several one-hit wonders. Also left out Baroque and Early Music where I have no clear-cut favourites
Quote from: kyjo on August 27, 2020, 07:16:52 AM
Poulenc
Saint-Saëns
Damase
Ravel
Roussel
Fauré
Magnard
Cras
Dutilleux
Schmitt
Honorable mentions: Canteloube, Berlioz, Chausson
I'm woefully under-familiar with Koechlin's music for some odd reason. I need to rectify that...
No surprise to see Damase there ;D
For Koechlin I'd recommend 'Le buisson ardent' Kyle:
(//)
Loosely organised into tiers:
Messiaen
Poulenc
Fauré
Saint-Saëns
Berlioz
Ravel
Debussy
Satie
Duruflé
Franck or Bizet
Debussy
Ravel
Messiaen
S-Saens
Faure
Rameau
Poulenc
Franck
and probably
Murail
Dutilleux,
so pretty familiar names; I might exchange one with Schmitt though.
Messiaen
Ravel
Poulenc
Roussel
Saint-Saens
Dutilleux
Berlioz
Franck
Duruflé
Debussy
Another go:
Saint-Saëns
Poulenc
Ravel
Roussel
Magnard
Milhaud
Schmitt
Fauré
Ropartz
Pierné
I think it sums up my tastes quite well.
Runner-ups: Cras, d'Indy, Gouvy, Dubois, Berlioz.
Berlioz
Debussy
Saint-Saëns
Ravel
Bizet
Berlioz
Couperin, François
Debussy
Dukas
Fauré
Franck
Gounod
Janequin
Messiaen
Ravel
Guillaume de Machaut (c. 1300 – 1377)
Guillaume Dufay (c. 1397 – 1474)
Josquin des Prez (c. 1450 – 1521)
Claude Debussy (1862–1918)
Erik Satie (1866–1925)
Francis Poulenc (1899–1963)
Maurice Duruflé (1902–1986)
Olivier Messiaen (1908–1992)
Pierre Boulez (1925–2016)
Pascal Dusapin (born 1955)
In no particular order:
Ravel
Debussy
Berlioz
Saint-Saëns
Bizet
Alkan
Roussel
Satie
Fauré
Milhaud
Today's list in order of preference:
Saint-Saëns
Poulenc
Roussel
Ravel
Milhaud
Fauré
Magnard
Schmitt
Cras
Alkan
Ibert
Duphly
Auric
Massenet
Poulenc
Roussel
Dukas
Bizet
Satie
Debussy
Quote from: Wanderer on January 25, 2018, 07:12:33 AMCharpentier
Lully
Alkan
Berlioz
Ravel
Debussy
Saint-Saëns
Messiaen
Poulenc
Offenbach
I'd add
Leclair,
Delalande,
Widor and
Vierne.
Another go!
Auric
Dutilleux
Sauguet
Damase
Cras
Debussy
Honegger
Koechlin
Magnard
Ibert
In some order of preference:
Poulenc
Saint-Saëns
Ravel
Damase
Roussel
Cras
Magnard
Fauré
Berlioz
Ibert
(I'm counting Honegger as Swiss, btw.)
Hmmmm....
Today's list, in no particular order
Rameau
Couperin
Charpentier
Leclair
Auber
Delibes
Bizet
Faure
Saint-Saens
Massenet
Ravel
Debussy
Messiaen
Machaut
Poulenc
Rameau
Lully
Couperin
Quote from: atardecer on July 15, 2023, 07:33:21 PMRavel
Debussy
Messiaen
Machaut
Poulenc
Rameau
Lully
Couperin
One more I forgot - Guillaume Du Fay
Another try:
1. Claude Debussy
2. Maurice Ravel
3. Gabriel Fauré
4. Camille Saint-Saëns
5. Hector Berlioz
6. Georges Bizet
7. Jean-Baptiste Lully
8. Jean-Philippe Rameau
9. Olivier Messiaen
10. César Franck
Honorable mention:
11. Pierre Boulez
12. Pierre Henry
13. Jules Massenet
14. Marc-Antoine Charpentier
15. Francis Poulenc
16. Léo Delibes
17. François Couperin
18. Edgard Varèse
19. Paul Dukas
20. Erik Satie
21. Jacques Offenbach
22. Charles Gounod
23. Pierre Schaeffer
24. Josquin des Prés
25. Darius Milhaud
26. Guillaume de Machaut
27. Gilles Binchois
28. Henri Dutilleux
29. Thierry Escaich
30. Maurice Duruflé
31. Charles-Valentin Alkan
32. Guillaume Dufay
33. Ernest Chausson
34. Clément Janequin
35. Karol Beffa
36. Arthur Honegger
37. Gérard Grisey
38. Marcel Dupré
39. Lili Boulanger
40. Marin Marais