GMG Classical Music Forum

Wanting to buy his Piano Concerto...should I go for the Parkin w/Thomson on Chandos, or Parkin w/Boult on Lyrita?

Both are good but I'd opt for the Lyrita as the CD contains a fine performance of Ireland's "These things shall be", one of his finest works and a beautiful performance of "Legend" (superior to the Chandos recording)

Ireland was a very fine composer. The emotion is understated which, paradoxically, makes it more poignant. My favourite works are:

"These things shall be"

Mai Dun

The Forgotten Rite

Legend for Piano and Orchestra

Piano Concerto

Epic March

London Overture

This is the best Ireland disc known to me:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/conducts-Ireland-London-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000N8UVRG/ref=pd_bowtega_1/202-7235464-3664651?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1178994274&sr=1-1

Quote from: Captain Haddock on May 12, 2007, 10:24:05 AM
Both are good but I'd opt for the Lyrita as the CD contains a fine performance of Ireland's "These things shall be", one of his finest works and a beautiful performance of "Legend" (superior to the Chandos recording)

Ireland was a very fine composer. The emotion is understated which, paradoxically, makes it more poignant. My favourite works are:

"These things shall be"

Mai Dun

The Forgotten Rite

Legend for Piano and Orchestra

Piano Concerto

Epic March

London Overture

This is the best Ireland disc known to me:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/conducts-Ireland-London-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000N8UVRG/ref=pd_bowtega_1/202-7235464-3664651?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1178994274&sr=1-1

Thanks for the link, seems to have been released here in the US (according to amazon.com) just last week. 

Don't forget this fabulous new Lyrita release also:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ireland-Orchestral-Works-John/dp/B000M5B6M4/ref=sr_1_100/026-0945451-0042845?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179213102&sr=1-100

I like Ireland's music, especially the beautifully atmospheric "Legend" for Piano and Orchestra.  His Piano Concerto is highly regarded though rarely performed and, for me, other highlights include; The Forgotten Rite, Mai-Dun, "These Things Shall Be" (an oratorio from the 1930s calling for peace) and there are fine solo piano compositions and songs.  The emotion in Ireland's music is understated and all the more moving for that.  He didn't write that much for orchestra but all that exists is of very fine quality (including the jaunty "London Overture" and film music for "The Overlanders")

Lyrita have recently issued two fine discs of orchestral/choral music and Barbirolli's unrivalled version of the London Overture has just been restored to the catalogue by EMI as a "Great Recording of the Century".

http://www.lyrita.co.uk/

Thanks for starting this - I agree completely. Legend and the Piano Concerto, it seems to me, are really very fine and moving pieces indeed, and for my money Ireland's greatest orchestral works. Other than them, the solo piano music, especially Sarnia and the Sonatina, contain some of Ireland's very best, and are probably, taken as a whole, the finest set of British piano miniatures of this type, subtle and allusive, very detailed and polished works but often with Ireland's very personal ruggedness (his strongly imprinted personality, a mix of typical rhythmic, melodic and harmonic fingerprints, makes him one of the most interesting, attractive and easily identifiable composers of his time). I regret to say I don't know the songs.

One tidbit I always like to trot out on Ireland threads - JI was the examiner for one of my grandmothers' ABRSM Grade 5 exam!  8)

We had an interesting discussion about Ireland on a thread on the old board IIRC. Let me try to find a link....

Ireland is a big gap in my collection.  I have heard the London Overture -- and liked it a lot -- but can't recall anything else.  Have you heard this CD, of the violin sonatas? 

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/55164.jpg)

--Bruce

Here we are (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.msg392567.html#msg392567). A page or so from this post on.

Bruce - get the Chandos twofer, which has the violin sonatas but also all the piano trios and, finest of all, the greater, later chamber music - the gorgeous cello sonata (a wonderful piece) and the late Fantasy Sonata for clarinet, which is just such a lucid little work. You will love it.

Thanks, Luke!  All the items you mention sound right up my alley.  (As do all the others mentioned earlier by you and vandermolen.)

--Bruce

This composer certainly has an interesting last name...

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 06, 2007, 11:30:24 AM
This composer certainly has an interesting last name...

Why?

There's a sports reporter out here in Los Angeles with the same last name....same first name too.

Quote from: Lethe on July 07, 2007, 01:08:11 PM
Why?

Hmm...let me think about it for a sec....OH YES! Maybe there's a place on Earth with the same name?

Quote from: lukeottevanger on July 06, 2007, 09:55:05 AM
Here we are (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.msg392567.html#msg392567). A page or so from this post on.

Luke - thanks for the link - I forgot 'how much' we have already discussed Ireland - I must 're-visit' my current collection & look forward to more comments & recommendations - Dave  :D

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 07, 2007, 07:11:41 PM
Hmm...let me think about it for a sec....OH YES! Maybe there's a place on Earth with the same name?

Benjamin Britten, Einar Englund, more... What's so special about it? Elliot Carter is also named after a medieval profession, as are many people...

Quote from: Lethe on July 07, 2007, 07:33:17 PM
Benjamin Britten, Einar Englund, more... What's so special about it? Elliot Carter is also named after a medieval profession, as are many people...

Britten =/= Britain
Englund =/= England
Ireland = Ireland

Is it just me or does anyone else notice something special about the spelling?

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 07, 2007, 09:17:32 PM
Britten =/= Britain
Englund =/= England
Ireland = Ireland

Is it just me or does anyone else notice something special about the spelling?

There is no need to be pedantic about spellings which originate before English spelling was codified. They mean identical things. It is a normal name, period. "My family originates from here". Like Woods, Hill, etc but less specific...

If you want odd names, check out some US athletes. One of them is called LaTasha Colander.

Anyway, can anybody recommend a leading performance of the Legend and Piano Concerto?

Thanks for the replies. I don't know the Violin sonatas and must investigate. Perhaps the Legend is my favourite of Ireland's work (especially in the Lyrita Version)

Ireland lived, with his cat, in a windmill near the Sussex Downs. I was delighted to see it during a country walk some time back. I think that Ireland was quite an endearing, unassuming individual.

Has anyone here heard his String Quartets? Downloaded them recently - very lovely indeed.

Quote from: Mark on July 10, 2007, 01:18:43 AM
Has anyone here heard his String Quartets? Downloaded them recently - very lovely indeed.

I must investigate.Thanks Mark.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 10, 2007, 01:23:59 AM
I must investigate.Thanks Mark.

Try this:

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/32/905432.jpg)

As I said on the old forum, those quartets are very nice indeed, but they are early works, and Ireland's mature style - which is the chief draw, for me - isn't there yet. I would strongly urge the Chandos chamber music set, plus Legend, the Piano Concerto and some of the piano pieces, on anyone trying to get a flavour of Ireland for the first time.

I love his quartets. Symphonies though, I still prefer Mahler or Bruckner  ;D

I'm listening to Roderick Williams's new album of Ireland songs - absolutely beautiful. 'Summer Schemes' from Three Songs to Poems by Thomas Hardy is my current fave: a language clearly drawn from Ravel's early style (e.g. String Quartet), yet with an individual poignancy. Highly recommended:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Song-18-Roderick-Williams/dp/B001716IYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1215350941&sr=1-1

Quote from: Pierre on July 06, 2008, 05:29:43 AM
I'm listening to Roderick Williams's new album of Ireland songs - absolutely beautiful. 'Summer Schemes' from Three Songs to Poems by Thomas Hardy is my current fave: a language clearly drawn from Ravel's early style (e.g. String Quartet), yet with an individual poignancy. Highly recommended:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Song-18-Roderick-Williams/dp/B001716IYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1215350941&sr=1-1

Thanks for link Pierre. I heard Roderick Williams  give a fantastic performance as 'Pilgrim' in Vaughan Williams's 'Pilgrim's Progress' in London. The reviewer in the Times said that Roderick Williams's 'gave the performance of his life'. He is a great singer.

Somebody just sent me a link to this wonderful recording of the Cello Sonata played by the composer and Antoni Sala. Great stuff.

Interesting looking new release:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/June09/Ireland_CDHLL7523.htm

Quote from: tjguitar on May 07, 2007, 01:50:39 PM
Wanting to buy his Piano Concerto...should I go for the Parkin w/Thomson on Chandos, or Parkin w/Boult on Lyrita?

BBC Radio 3 chose Ireland's Piano Concerto for its comparative survey of recordings this morning.  The CD below was their No 1 choice (closely followed by the Hyperion recording (Piers Lane/David Lloyd-Jones) with the original Delius Piano Concerto). The Dutton CD is very good due to the excellent couplings:

I actually have the original release on Conifer. The new cover looks better though!

The best moment in the piano concerto is waiting for the single 'ding' on the triangle in the finale - perfect!

There was Ireland talk on the board and I decided to listen to the cello sonata again.  What a wonderful work.  The form of the work is a standard as it gets.  A yearning, searching first movement, a more tranquil, slow movement, a diabolical finale with moments a repose, with a group of themes and motifs pervading the entire structure.  But Ireland has such an individual voice, there is nothing standard or routine about the music itself.  After listening through I had to cue it up and listen a second time.  It is one of those pieces which has an "unfathomable" feel to it, which gives the impression that no matter how well you know it there is something yet to be discovered.

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I like a few Ireland works, but I find most of his music uninspired.

You finding them uninspired doesn't mean that they are, though, of course

The recent Ireland talk stemmed from me, I'm afraid, an avid fan of his music. It's a small output, it's limted in range, there are similar moods and motives recurring very often. All that only deepens its appeal, to me. He is a composer of the strongest individuality - as I said on the WAYLT thread, he has one of the most immediately recognisable and personal styles of any composer I know, and that is something that I've always valued highly. For that reason I will always rate him extremely highly as a composer. When one factors in his utterly superb technique (he was as refined and fastidious a composer as Ravel, and in many ways is the closest British equivalent, I think, technically as well as in approach) and his often deeply inspired muse, the best of Ireland is as fine a thing as I can imagine. I listed the pieces I thought finest a day or two ago - they are mostly in the piano music and the chamber music; among the orchestral pieces the two concertante piano works stand head and shoulders above the rest.

But enough for now...

Quote from: Luke on June 11, 2011, 12:56:47 PM
You finding them uninspired doesn't mean that they are, though, of course

The recent Ireland talk stemmed from me, I'm afraid, an avid fan of his music. It's a small output, it's limted in range, there are similar moods and motives recurring very often. All that only deepens its appeal, to me. He is a composer of the strongest individuality - as I saidn on the WAYLT thread, he has one of the most immediately recognisable and personal styles of any composer I know, and that is something that I've always valued highly. For that reason I will always rate him extremely highly as a composer. When one factors in his utterly superb technique (he was as refined and fastidious a composer as Ravel, and in many ways is the closest British equivalent, I think, technically as well as in approach) and his often deeply inspired muse, the best of Ireland is as fine a thing as I can imagine. I listed the pieces I thought finest a day or two ago - they are mostly in the piano music and the chamber music; among the orchestral pieces the two concertante piano works stand head and shoulders above the rest.

But enough for now...

I found that post so notable, I pulled the trigger on that Chandos disc with the pf cto

A very fine choice. I envy you hearing it for the first time!

My current Ireland binge has extended to me buying some of the books of Arthur Machen, who was a prfound influence on the composer, and on Legend in particular. I absolutely adore that work.

Quote from: Guido on September 16, 2008, 09:12:14 AM
Somebody just sent me a link to this wonderful recording of the Cello Sonata played by the composer and Antoni Sala. Great stuff.

Just saw this - oddly enough, I was listening to that today. Agreed, the playing itself is wonderful, but I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who didn't already know and love the sonata - the recording is just awful, the piano distance and muffled, the cello too upfront and shrill, and because of this the whole work passes by as if on one level, climaxes going past almost unnoticed. The Chandos is the way to go, to start with...

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 08, 2007, 04:38:48 AM
. . . "My family originates from here". Like Woods, Hill, etc but less specific...

If you want odd names, check out some US athletes. One of them is called LaTasha Colander.

My family originated from there . . . .

Wow, was I disoriented about this composer!

. . . and I like him the better as I finds him!

Quote from: Luke on June 11, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
A very fine choice. I envy you hearing it for the first time!

My current Ireland binge has extended to me buying some of the books of Arthur Machen, who was a prfound influence on the composer, and on Legend in particular. I absolutely adore that work.

I first encountered Ireland through the Machen connection. Ireland is wonderful at conveying the mystical atmosphere so common in Machen's works. This collection (there are three volumes) contains Machen's most important short fiction.

[asin]1568821328[/asin]

Add Machen's The Hill of Dreams  and you'll have an excellent collection. I wouldn't bother with the short novel  The Green Round.

Don't forget 'The White People'!

Quote from: tjguitar on November 16, 2009, 06:29:09 AM
I actually have the original release on Conifer. The new cover looks better though!

Me too. I WAs JUST listening to the Walton today and thinking to start a British Piano Concerto Thread. Great cd!!

'These Things Shall Be', 'Mai-Dun', 'The Forgotten Rite' and 'Legend' are my favourite works by Ireland - I also like the war-time 'Epic March'. He was a fine composer.

Quote from: vandermolen on June 12, 2011, 02:31:03 PM
'These Things Shall Be', 'Mai-Dun', 'The Forgotten Rite' and 'Legend' are my favourite works by Ireland - I also like the war-time 'Epic March'. He was a fine composer.

Mai-Dun and Legend are, I agree, both fine works.

No arguments from me, of course, but just the usual orchestral-music-is-only-a-part-of-the-picture plea - anyone who doesn't know Ireland's Piano Sonata or Sonatina, the London Pieces, Ballade, Greenways, the Decorations, the Preludes or above all Sarnia, to speak only of the piano music, is only getting a tiny bit of that picture. I've been playing them all so much this last couple of weeks (at the piano, I mean, not on CD, though that too).  Sarnia and the Sonatina, particularly, are very special works indeed, and the Ballade shows how extreme and even brutal Ireland can be

The idea strikes me that Sarnia or the Sonata, orchestrated, would make the most superlative works for those who only want orchestral...and then the idea recedes again when I think how perfectly conceived they are for the piano, Sarnia in particular! One to ponder, though...

The Ballade too....just thinking about it again. It's almost never mentioned, but it's probably his most extreme piece, and such varied, huge sonorities. It would be marvellous, orchestrally. And the London Pieces...I'd better stop!

I've been working my way through the Chandos chamber music collection again and now have the Parkin set of piano music on order.  Other than that, I have the pieces for piano and orchestra on Hyperion.  Looking forward to hearing the piano music.

Quote from: Luke on June 13, 2011, 12:42:14 AM
No arguments from me, of course, but just the usual orchestral-music-is-only-a-part-of-the-picture plea - anyone who doesn't know Ireland's Piano Sonata or Sonatina, the London Pieces, Ballade, Greenways, the Decorations, the Preludes or above all Sarnia, to speak only of the piano music, is only getting a tiny bit of that picture. I've been playing them all so much this last couple of weeks (at the piano, I mean, not on CD, though that too).  Sarnia and the Sonatina, particularly, are very special works indeed, and the Ballade shows how extreme and even brutal Ireland can be

The idea strikes me that Sarnia or the Sonata, orchestrated, would make the most superlative works for those who only want orchestral...and then the idea recedes again when I think how perfectly conceived they are for the piano, Sarnia in particular! One to ponder, though...

Quote from: Luke on June 13, 2011, 12:55:00 AM
The Ballade too....just thinking about it again. It's almost never mentioned, but it's probably his most extreme piece, and such varied, huge sonorities. It would be marvellous, orchestrally. And the London Pieces...I'd better stop!

I liked the clips well, and you're making me yet more impatient of the arrival of the piano music set!

Was playing through the two Ballades this morning - the Ballade itself, and the Ballade of London Nights (have a look at the scores here - http://hemingways-studio-downloads.blogspot.com/2003_01_01_archive.html ). Really superb pieces, both, and as I say, the Ballade shows him working with real intensity and right at the extremes of his style. It's a superb piece, made even finer because the craftsmanship is, as always, so impeccable. The Ballade of London Nights is similar, though it's stylistic trajectory is larger, and there's something big going on under the surface which really affects me. 

Thanks! And what a brilliant resource, thank you.

I think that this thread should be called 'Ireland's Windmill' as he lived in one! (I have seen it). I recommend a lovely new Naxos CD of Ireland's lyrical Piano Concerto played by John Leneman with the RLPO conducted by John Wilson. I already own many CDs of this work and thought that my purchase was more or less symptomatic of obsessive compulsive CD collecting disorder (known as OCCDCD to any properly trained psychotherapist  ;D). But, I am delighted as it is such a great version of the Piano Concerto - slower that usual and infused with a greater sense of poetry. I also like the lesser known 'Legend' which is a hauntingly atmospheric work - more dramatic than the concerto.  The performance is also the best I have heard. The earlier 'First Rhapsody' (1906) as the booklet note says is very much in the Lisztian tradition and the addition of some atmospheric solo piano works round of a lovely CD. Great cover photo of 'Chanctonbury Ring', a spot I know well on the South Downs in Sussex and where I sometimes go walking. Ireland was inspired by this countryside.
[asin]B005KNODZ0[/asin]

Have you heard the recording by Piers Lane on the Hyperion label of the Ireland works for piano and orchestra? I'd like to know how that one compares to this new one by John Lenehan.

I haven't heard the new one, but can confirm the worthiness of the Hyperion disc - lovingly recorded. From the review I read of the Naxos disc, it's apparently an uncommonly broad take, but doesn't suffer for that.

In terms of programme, both discs seem to offer individual experiences too. The Delius concerto included on Hyperion is very fine, and while the Ireland works included on the Naxos disc can be termed filler - Ireland's short pieces are always of high quality.

Edit: Wait... I didn't read up from your post - and thought it was a general question, not to Vandermolen - who I seem to have cribbed my review from! ;D I can only revoice my enthusiasm for the Hyperion discc, though the new one does look excellent.

Yes, to this point, I thought the Piers Lane recording was the best that I had heard. Piers does a nice job on both of the Delius concerto versions also (he recorded the revised version of the Delius elsewhere). Lenehan is a pianist I have heard elsewhere playing other British works, so I can only hope for the best. I will check this out on Naxos Music Library soon.

I think that the new disc will be a happy duplicate for me too, next round of purchases I make :)

I don't think that it matters who replies  :D

Yes, I have the Hyperion CD which is excellent and the Delius Piano Concerto is perhaps my favourite work by that composer.  There is also a fine Somm CD with the Ireland PC and Legend (Mark Bebbington, David Curtis) which is worth having for the only recording of Bax's 'Concertino for Piano and Orch.) I hope that the same conductor and orchestra who recorded the new Naxos will go on to record Mai-Dun and The Forgotten Rite.

Being imprinted on the Parkin disc (and Parkin had the composer's own advice on these works) I don't really like the Lane disc very much. But this new Naxos disc looks a winner - I'll be buying it soon. I should say, though I've said it already in this thread, that I rate both the Concerto and Legend extremely highly, and that in general Ireland is IMO one of the very finest of the British composers of his generation. But as I've said before, outside the Concerto and Legend, for the best of him you need to look to his piano and chamber music.

Quote from: Luke on December 19, 2011, 12:57:07 AM
Being imprinted on the Parkin disc (and Parkin had the composer's own advice on these works) I don't really like the Lane disc very much. But this new Naxos disc looks a winner - I'll be buying it soon. I should say, though I've said it already in this thread, that I rate both the Concerto and Legend extremely highly, and that in general Ireland is IMO one of the very finest of the British composers of his generation. But as I've said before, outside the Concerto and Legend, for the best of him you need to look to his piano and chamber music.

I'm sure you're right and I need to explore these works myself.  I have a soft spot for 'These Things Shall Be', which is not generally highly regarded. The Epic March is good too. Yes, that Chandos CD is excellent in all respects.

I have just finished playing Lyrita cd of the Piano concerto(etc). I like the Piano concerto. It really is a lovely work;but I also enjoyed  These Things shall Be. I do think the the Barbirolli recording is more stirring. It has more atmosphere,too;and not just because it's an old recording! At least,I don't think so?!! ;D  I'm now playing this Chandos collection. I bought this earlier incarnation of the cd,because I prefer the artwork.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/715AenwgExL._SL1200__zpsgmw6rrou.jpg)

The Chandos recording of These things shall be has Bryn Terfel as soloist. I'm not being very patriotic here,I know,but I must admit I can't stand his voice! ??? Ah well,each to his own!

Quote from: vandermolen on December 19, 2011, 02:31:43 AM
I'm sure you're right and I need to explore these works myself.  I have a soft spot for 'These Things Shall Be', which is not generally highly regarded. The Epic March is good too. Yes, that Chandos CD is excellent in all respects.

I like These Things shall Be (see above).Unless it's got Bryn Terfel singing in it! (Also,see above) What not to like?!! ???

Someone will tell me now! ::) ;D

Love this disc:
[asin]B002QQH0FE[/asin]

Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2017, 12:33:23 PM
Love this disc:
[asin]B002QQH0FE[/asin]

Yes,an excellent collection. I haven't got that one!! :( ;D

Quote from: cilgwyn on January 22, 2017, 01:11:30 PM
Yes,an excellent collection. I haven't got that one!! :( ;D

It's the only one which features The Forgotten Rite, Mai Dun and These Things Shall Be all together in great performances.

On now. If you like John Ireland this is a good cd to invest in! The performances are very good,with great atmosphere. The sound quality is very good considering the performances are derived from a live 1949 Prom concert. And you don't have to worry that it's live and they're will be lots of coughing,because I've got as far as the second movement of the Piano Concerto,and I still haven't heard any....CHOOOCH-CHACH-EUGH-UCHUR-UCHUUR....Noises (I mean coughing). If there is any,it's extremely muted,or discreet?! I didn't even hear any flem being ejected between movement's, either!! :o I've only got pathway through the cd,however;as it only arrived by post today. Recommended for fans of this composer. I didn't even know about this one until the other day,and,"click",there was another couple of quid gone from my account!! :( ;D Nice,evocative photo on the front,too,I must say! Excellent!

(http://i.imgur.com/DuzThzp.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/7FPkSW3.jpg)

There,I finally heard one....nice,quick and not too distracting either. Sounded like a gent! ::) ;D

I also received this one today,as recommended by vandermolen;and very good it is too! I would say these are easily the finest recordings of John Ireland. Everything is just right. Lot's of atmosphere. Barbirolli gets the most feeling,poetry and mysticism out of these pieces. They also feel more tightly structured than they do in any other recording. These Things Shall Be is wonderfully stirring. In this recording I could honestly say it's one of my favourite choral works.
And all the other recordings are wonderful too. Of course,I've heard some of these recordings before. The Elgar,VW and Purcell are new to me,though.

(http://i.imgur.com/Q34nYZs.jpg)

It strikes me that John Ireland is one of those composer's that is hard to pin down. Get the wrong recording and you might not go back to him again. Hickox is a good example of this. Not that his recordings are not good;they just lack some of the mysticism and poetry that Barbirolli captured in these recordings. Also,despite the lush,Chandos,and sometimes a little too reverberant,sound quality,they seem to emphasise some of what some people might single out as Ireland's worst failings. In other words they seem a bit too rhapsodic. Or as someone might say less kindly....they meander. Not with Barbirolli,they don't! And Boult is good,too. In fact,I think that hearing recordings as good as Barbirolli's is almost like a key to all of Ireland's few orchestral works. Barbirolli,then Boult....or at least,Boult? But not Hickox first!! I actually,did hear Hickox first. I remember enjoying Ireland's music,but thinking,it was nice,but not something I would return to that often! Then I bought the emi cd of Barbirolli conducting Bax's third symphony and The Forgotten Rite and These Thing Shall Be. I also got the Piano Concerto and Mai Dun performed by JB off one of those vinyl blogs. Anyway,the Boult cd's followed and the Eric Parkin Piano cd's;and the long and the short of it is,Ireland is now one of my favourite British composers!

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2017, 11:27:23 AM
On now. If you like John Ireland this is a good cd to invest in! The performances are very good,with great atmosphere. The sound quality is very good considering the performances are derived from a live 1949 Prom concert. And you don't have to worry that it's live and they're will be lots of coughing,because I've got as far as the second movement of the Piano Concerto,and I still haven't heard any....CHOOOCH-CHACH-EUGH-UCHUR-UCHUUR....Noises (I mean coughing). If there is any,it's extremely muted,or discreet?! I didn't even hear any flem being ejected between movement's, either!! :o I've only got pathway through the cd,however;as it only arrived by post today. Recommended for fans of this composer. I didn't even know about this one until the other day,and,"click",there was another couple of quid gone from my account!! :( ;D Nice,evocative photo on the front,too,I must say! Excellent!

(http://i.imgur.com/DuzThzp.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/7FPkSW3.jpg)

There,I finally heard one....nice,quick and not too distracting either. Sounded like a gent! ::) ;D

I also received this one today,as recommended by vandermolen;and very good it is too! I would say these are easily the finest recordings of John Ireland. Everything is just right. Lot's of atmosphere. Barbirolli gets the most feeling,poetry and mysticism out of these pieces. They also feel more tightly structured than they do in any other recording. These Things Shall Be is wonderfully stirring. In this recording I could honestly say it's one of my favourite choral works.
And all the other recordings are wonderful too. Of course,I've heard some of these recordings before. The Elgar,VW and Purcell are new to me,though.

(http://i.imgur.com/Q34nYZs.jpg)

It strikes me that John Ireland is one of those composer's that is hard to pin down. Get the wrong recording and you might not go back to him again. Hickox is a good example of this. Not that his recordings are not good;they just lack some of the mysticism and poetry that Barbirolli captured in these recordings. Also,despite the lush,Chandos,and sometimes a little too reverberant,sound quality,they seem to emphasise some of what some people might single out as Ireland's worst failings. In other words they seem a bit too rhapsodic. Or as someone might say less kindly....they meander. Not with Barbirolli,they don't! And Boult is good,too. In fact,I think that hearing recordings as good as Barbirolli's is almost like a key to all of Ireland's few orchestral works. Barbirolli,then Boult....or at least,Boult? But not Hickox first!! I actually,did hear Hickox first. I remember enjoying Ireland's music,but thinking,it was nice,but not something I would return to that often! Then I bought the emi cd of Barbirolli conducting Bax's third symphony and The Forgotten Rite and These Thing Shall Be. I also got the Piano Concerto and Mai Dun performed by JB off one of those vinyl blogs. Anyway,the Boult cd's followed and the Eric Parkin Piano cd's;and the long and the short of it is,Ireland is now one of my favourite British composers!

Very much agree with you and delighted that you like that Barbirolli CD. It's good to have Mai Dun, the Forgotten Rite and These Things Shall Be in the same collection in exceptionally atmospheric and moving performances - one of the great Dutton historical releases.

Playing here,now. This cd,which arrived today. These historic recordings of the Moeran Symphony and Ireland Piano Concerto,conducted by the sadly short lived Leslie Heward. The booklet points out that if Heward had lived he would almost certainly have been the principal conductor of the Halle instead of Barbirolli. Some of the classic recordings we associate with Boult might have been recorded with Heward conducting instead. In effect;we would speak here of Heward as we do of Boult!! Ah,those great might have beens of history!! ;D I didn't realise Elieen Joyce had such a colourful career.........and literally! Her belief in the association of colours with music leading her to change costume in between works! She will also forever be associated with the movie Brief Encounter. Joyce being the soloist in Rachmaninov's Second Piano Concerto,which was used in the soundtrack. She was also known for her revealing gowns,and a bestselling biography. She worked on other movies. Indeed,a film was made about her life.

(http://i.imgur.com/rDXMXu1.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/15Af3CN.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/oGejEt9.jpg)

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 06, 2017, 07:57:10 AM
Playing here,now. This cd,which arrived today. These historic recordings of the Moeran Symphony and Ireland Piano Concerto,conducted by the sadly short lived Leslie Heward. The booklet points out that if Heward had lived he would almost certainly have been the principal conductor of the Halle instead of Barbirolli. Some of the classic recordings we associate with Boult might have been recorded with Heward conducting instead. In effect;we would speak here of Heward as we do of Boult!! Ah,those great might have beens of history!! ;D I didn't realise Elieen Joyce had such a colourful career.........and literally! Her belief in the association of colours with music leading her to change costume in between works! She will also forever be associated with the movie Brief Encounter. Joyce being the soloist in Rachmaninov's Second Piano Concerto,which was used in the soundtrack. She was also known for her revealing gowns,and a bestselling biography. She worked on other movies. Indeed,a film was made about her life.

(http://i.imgur.com/rDXMXu1.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/15Af3CN.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/oGejEt9.jpg)

Moeran was in the recording studio when Heward recorded his Symphony - Heward's last and possibly greatest recording. Heward was so obviously very ill that Moeran wasn't sure that he'd be able to complete the recording sessions. However, Heward hung on, producing a magnificent performance of this great score. Great cover photo of the troubled composer.

Haven't revisited Ireland's music in ages.

Time for the violin sonatas and the third piano trio tonight before drifting off to snooze-land . . .

:)

I listened to Ireland's PC recently and I found it to be a bit of a disappointment. It's a pleasant enough work but nothing in it really grabbed my attention. I've also heard some of his solo piano works which I found more interesting. I must explore his chamber music which many rate very highly.

Quote from: kyjo on October 24, 2017, 06:24:26 PM
I listened to Ireland's PC recently and I found it to be a bit of a disappointment. It's a pleasant enough work but nothing in it really grabbed my attention. I've also heard some of his solo piano works which I found more interesting. I must explore his chamber music which many rate very highly.

I prefer the 'Legend' for piano and orchestra, Mai Dun and The Forgotten Rite as well as the choral/orchestral 'These Things Shall Be'. There is some fine piano music, especially 'April'.

Well,I like it!! :P ;D I think it's one of the loveliest Piano Concertos,I know! In fact,I've got it on,right now! That said,I didn't always feel that way! I remember,when I first heard it,thinking it was quite nice,but not something that really 'grabbed me'! Like most of Ireland's music,it's been,what you might call,a 'slow burn'! I'm now a fan!! This isn't my favourite recording of the work. But it's very good,and I like the choice of 'companions! I like the 'artwork',too! It seems appropriate,when you consider some of Ireland's,other interests;beside music! If I had to pick a favourite recording of the Piano Concerto,in stereo;I'd probably pick Kathryn Stott's. The addition of Bridge's Phantasm,is another incentive. I've only recently got to grips with that work. Indeed,I was listening to it last night,and thinking what a fascinating piece of music it was. Parts of it,even,brought to mind,late Scriabin!

(https://i.imgur.com/JDEmkzs.jpg)

Here's the cd,with less appealing 'artwork'! (At least,for me!) And that's my favourite (currently) stereo recording,on the right! I've only,recently,really 'got to grips',with Phantasm! I think it's a fascinating work! I was listening to it,last night. Parts of it,brought to mind,late Scriabin! The Walton makes a nice finale,to an excellent album!

(https://i.imgur.com/54M80Fn.jpg)      (https://i.imgur.com/WVPB6Pn.jpg)

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 03, 2019, 02:28:30 PM
Here's the cd,with less appealing 'artwork'! (At least,for me!) And that's my favourite (currently) stereo recording,on the right! I've only,recently,really 'got to grips',with Phantasm! I think it's a fascinating work! I was listening to it,last night. Parts of it,brought to mind,late Scriabin! The Walton makes a nice finale,to an excellent album!

(https://i.imgur.com/54M80Fn.jpg)      (https://i.imgur.com/WVPB6Pn.jpg)

i like both Chandos cover images and also like Ireland's 'Legend' for Piano and Orchestra.
And here is the Conifer CD as reissued by Dutton:
(//)

Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2019, 01:49:28 AM
i like both Chandos cover images and also like Ireland's 'Legend' for Piano and Orchestra.
And here is the Conifer CD as reissued by Dutton:

I own the earlier Chandos CD which is a good cover image but for the mixing of black and white letters in the titles which doesn't work. Some would say "so what" but companies such as Chandos think it important and pay accordingly to get it right, or in this case wrong.
Let us not forget the Lyrita Eric Parkin recording in the Ireland PC.

(https://img.discogs.com/mVku_FmAgxNNgBJm3K7BJ5Ru7mE=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5659578-1399199524-6755.jpeg.jpg) 

Quote from: Irons on July 04, 2019, 06:34:59 AM
I own the earlier Chandos CD which is a good cover image but for the mixing of black and white letters in the titles which doesn't work. Some would say "so what" but companies such as Chandos think it important and pay accordingly to get it right, or in this case wrong.
Let us not forget the Lyrita Eric Parkin recording in the Ireland PC.

(https://img.discogs.com/mVku_FmAgxNNgBJm3K7BJ5Ru7mE=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5659578-1399199524-6755.jpeg.jpg)

I don't like the mixing of letters either but worse the image is a picture of Corfe Castle; Mai Dun is the Iron Age hill fort Maiden Castle near Dorchester.

This one with John Lenehan has a fine cover too, I guess. I certainly think the recording is excellent, although I'm not familiar with other versions. The one volume of Lenehan's Ireland solo piano recordings I have is also fine, though I have yet to explore the rest..

[asin]B005KNODZ0[/asin]

Here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Dec11/Ireland_PC_8572598.htm) you can read what France thinks of this Ireland recording.

Quote from: Irons on July 04, 2019, 06:34:59 AM
I own the earlier Chandos CD which is a good cover image but for the mixing of black and white letters in the titles which doesn't work. Some would say "so what" but companies such as Chandos think it important and pay accordingly to get it right, or in this case wrong.
Let us not forget the Lyrita Eric Parkin recording in the Ireland PC.

(https://img.discogs.com/mVku_FmAgxNNgBJm3K7BJ5Ru7mE=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5659578-1399199524-6755.jpeg.jpg)

Another great nostalgia trip! My first encounter with both works when I took it out of the High Street Kensington Music Library, probably in the late 1970s. I've always thought that it features the best version of 'These Things Shall Be' - a work which I admire very much. Also a great cover design.

Quote from: North Star on July 04, 2019, 12:58:33 PM
This one with John Lenehan has a fine cover too, I guess. I certainly think the recording is excellent, although I'm not familiar with other versions. The one volume of Lenehan's Ireland solo piano recordings I have is also fine, though I have yet to explore the rest..

[asin]B005KNODZ0[/asin]

Here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Dec11/Ireland_PC_8572598.htm) you can read what France thinks of this Ireland recording.

That is indeed a very enjoyable CD with a fine cover image. Ireland lived in a windmill not that far from here (I've seen it during a walk on the Sussex Downs):
Here he is:
(//)

I'll have to give the PC another try. My favorite Ireland work (of those I know) remains A Downland Suite - originally written for brass band but later transcribed for string orchestra. I only know it in the latter incarnation and cannot imagine it any other way. It boasts a heart-rending Elegy and an elegantly nostalgic, catchy Minuet. Continuing in the string orchestra realm, his Concertino Pastorale is another gorgeous, eloquent work.

In the chamber music realm, I really enjoy his early, rather Brahmsian/Dvorakian Sextet for the tonally rich instrumentation of clarinet, horn, and strings - a charming, tuneful work. Also, the later, stormier, rather Baxian Cello Sonata is a fine work with a moving, hymn-like slow movement.

Quote from: kyjo on July 04, 2019, 08:56:11 PM
I'll have to give the PC another try. My favorite Ireland work (of those I know) remains A Downland Suite - originally written for brass band but later transcribed for string orchestra. I only know it in the latter incarnation and cannot imagine it any other way. It boasts a heart-rending Elegy and an elegantly nostalgic, catchy Minuet. Continuing in the string orchestra realm, his Concertino Pastorale is another gorgeous, eloquent work.

In the chamber music realm, I really enjoy his early, rather Brahmsian/Dvorakian Sextet for the tonally rich instrumentation of clarinet, horn, and strings - a charming, tuneful work. Also, the later, stormier, rather Baxian Cello Sonata is a fine work with a moving, hymn-like slow movement.

Interesting Kyle. I must look out for the Cello Sonata.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2019, 02:58:12 PM
That is indeed a very enjoyable CD with a fine cover image. Ireland lived in a windmill not that far from here (I've seen it during a walk on the Sussex Downs):
Here he is:

One of the few occasions I purchased for the cover alone. In fact the recording is good if rather dry.

(https://img.discogs.com/WDPNfAdbPEoX5I9SBue4-vG_-1A=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-7855294-1478904582-2888.gif.jpg)

Quote from: kyjo on July 04, 2019, 08:56:11 PM
I'll have to give the PC another try. My favorite Ireland work (of those I know) remains A Downland Suite - originally written for brass band but later transcribed for string orchestra. I only know it in the latter incarnation and cannot imagine it any other way. It boasts a heart-rending Elegy and an elegantly nostalgic, catchy Minuet. Continuing in the string orchestra realm, his Concertino Pastorale is another gorgeous, eloquent work.

In the chamber music realm, I really enjoy his early, rather Brahmsian/Dvorakian Sextet for the tonally rich instrumentation of clarinet, horn, and strings - a charming, tuneful work. Also, the later, stormier, rather Baxian Cello Sonata is a fine work with a moving, hymn-like slow movement.

It took quite a few years,from my first listen,to like the Piano Concerto,as much as I do,now! I remember being a little disappointed,too! A review,referring to the composers use of jazzy rhythms,probably didn't help! But all these years later,it's the poetry of the piece and it's un-showy,english reserve that makes the piece. (I actually prefer it to the Gershwin concerto;which is a bit too flashy,for me). I love the quiet opening of the piece. And the first few bars of the second movement are quite magical. When Ireland introduces the popular little tune in the final movement;I was obviously expecting something a little more barnstorming,and showy,in my youth. I suppose a closer comparison would be the concertos of Constant Lambert. But Ireland's Concerto has more depth of feeling,and,imho,better tunes. The melody that unfolds at the beginning of the second movement is quite beautiful. I honestly think,Ireland's Piano Concerto deserves to be popular again. (I'm not holding out much hope,though!) And there's a good reason why there is such a selection of recordings to choose from! If you don't feel too excited at first (but not hating it!) it might be worth trying another recording? I have found that the glories of Ireland can sometimes take time to unfold. His Piano music having a,quietly,deceptive,english reserve.

I will have a listen to the Sextet and Cello Sonata again,a bit later! I have the Lyrita recordings,by the way!

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 06, 2019, 05:27:53 AM
It took quite a few years,from my first listen,to like the Piano Concerto,as much as I do,now! I remember being a little disappointed,too! A review,referring to the composers use of jazzy rhythms,probably didn't help! But all these years later,it's the poetry of the piece and it's un-showy,english reserve that makes the piece. (I actually prefer it to the Gershwin concerto;which is a bit too flashy,for me). I love the quiet opening of the piece. And the first few bars of the second movement are quite magical. When Ireland introduces the popular little tune in the final movement;I was obviously expecting something a little more barnstorming,and showy,in my youth. I suppose a closer comparison would be the concertos of Constant Lambert. But Ireland's Concerto has more depth of feeling,and,imho,better tunes. The melody that unfolds at the beginning of the second movement is quite beautiful. I honestly think,Ireland's Piano Concerto deserves to be popular again. (I'm not holding out much hope,though!) And there's a good reason why there is such a selection of recordings to choose from! If you don't feel too excited at first (but not hating it!) it might be worth trying another recording? I have found that the glories of Ireland can sometimes take time to unfold. His Piano music having a,quietly,deceptive,english reserve.

I will have a listen to the Sextet and Cello Sonata again,a bit later! I have the Lyrita recordings,by the way!

I think you are right Ireland's PC needs time. It must be said that decent British piano concertos are thin on the ground but this is one.
By the way, hats off to Jeffrey. Thanks to his mention of "Legend" For Piano and Orchestra I listened to the work and enjoyed it very much.

Quote from: Irons on July 07, 2019, 12:44:12 AM
It must be said that decent British piano concertos are thin on the ground

ooh there's a sweeping statement!  How about (in no particular order & including 'concertante' works):

Bliss
Britten
Vaughan Williams
Walton
Bridge
Berkeley
Hoddinott
Rawsthorne
Delius
Foulds
Stanford
Finzi
Scott
Moeran
Williamson
Reizenstein
Bowen
Bate
Lloyd
Mathias
Leighton
McCabe
Alwyn
Searle
Maconchy

... Tippett

...Holbrooke.

Sure, - one could name 20 or 30 more as well.

But Irons' operative word was "decent",  not merely "existing", - and apparently he believes Ireland's entry is among the very few in that respect.

Quote from: J on July 07, 2019, 09:35:27 AM
Sure, - one could name 20 or 30 more as well.

But Irons' operative word was "decent",  not merely "existing", - and apparently he believes Ireland's entry is among the very few in that respect.

... and what makes you think that I do not consider ALL the composers/works I listed as "decent" and many of them considerably more than just that modest description!

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 07, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
... and what makes you think that I do not consider ALL the composers/works I listed as "decent" and many of them considerably more than just that modest description!

But does Irons consider them such is the relevant consideration.  He's the one who suggested the rarity of "decent" among the works in question.

Quote from: J on July 07, 2019, 09:35:27 AM
Sure, - one could name 20 or 30 more as well.

But Irons' operative word was "decent",  not merely "existing", - and apparently he believes Ireland's entry is among the very few in that respect.

That is what I meant and thanks for pointing it out.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 07, 2019, 03:08:19 AM
ooh there's a sweeping statement!  How about (in no particular order & including 'concertante' works):

Bliss
Britten
Vaughan Williams
Walton
Bridge
Berkeley
Hoddinott
Rawsthorne
Delius
Foulds
Stanford
Finzi
Scott
Moeran
Williamson
Reizenstein
Bowen
Bate
Lloyd
Mathias
Leighton
McCabe
Alwyn
Searle
Maconchy

Agreed, there are many fine British PCs. Of those I know, I very much enjoy the ones by Bliss, VW, Walton (Sinfonia Concertante), Bridge (Phantasm), Berkeley (for 2 pianos), Arnold (for 2 pianos 3 hands), Rawsthorne (both), Delius, Foulds (Dynamic Triptych), Stanford (no. 2), Moeran (Rhapsody no. 3), Lloyd (nos. 1 and 4), Leighton (no. 3), Alwyn (no. 2), and Tippett.

As often happens "fine" and "enjoyable" are getting collapsed here (an admittedly small sin).

Quote from: kyjo on July 08, 2019, 08:18:56 PM
Agreed, there are many fine British PCs. Of those I know, I very much enjoy the ones by Bliss, VW, Walton (Sinfonia Concertante), Bridge (Phantasm), Berkeley (for 2 pianos), Arnold (for 2 pianos 3 hands), Rawsthorne (both), Delius, Foulds (Dynamic Triptych), Stanford (no. 2), Moeran (Rhapsody no. 3), Lloyd (nos. 1 and 4), Leighton (no. 3), Alwyn (no. 2), and Tippett.

Very much agree. Others I think highly of are the ones for two pianos by Gordon Jacob (not even on CD) and the short but engaging one by Bliss also for two pianos (three hands). Also the Stanley Bate No.2. Because of the percussive treatment of the piano (I know that is the nature of a piano by the way  :)) I think that the VW two piano version is preferable to the one for single piano. Vronsky/Babin/Boult is one of my favourite VW recordings. You can now get it on CD with the original coupling (Symphony No.Eight) and the fine original cover painting but with the notes all in Japanese  ???
(//)

The Piano/2 Piano Concerto is my only RVW blind spot. Truth be told I'm not crazy about the Ireland. I ask myself where is it's standing in the whole, as opposed British, repertoire? All is not lost though as yesterday I listened to Alwyn's 2nd PC which I did enjoy much to my surprise. The 1st isn't bad either.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2019, 09:57:54 PM
Very much agree. Others I think highly of are the ones for two pianos by Gordon Jacob (not even on CD) and the short but engaging one by Bliss also for two pianos (three hands). Also the Stanley Bate No.2. Because of the percussive treatment of the piano (I know that is the nature of a piano by the way  :)) I think that the VW two piano version is preferable to the one for single piano. Vronsky/Babin/Boult is one of my favourite VW recordings. You can now get it on CD with the original coupling (Symphony No.Eight) and the fine original cover painting but with the notes all in Japanese  ???
(//)

I think Mathias' Piano Concertos are fantastic,personally! ;D I also,like Bax's Winter Legends and Symphonic Variations. I remember being a bit shocked when I came on this Message Board only to find out that I was in a very small minority,who liked Winter Legends! Actually,probably just me!! :( I nearly wore out the original Lp;and have always associated it with some girl (a blonde) I had a crush on! Sad,because I have an idea she did fancy me! But her Dad was the local hard man,and would have probably put me in A & E! Someone here said it made him think of Woolly Mammoths! I don't think she looked like that! She was slim and blonde! Although I haven't seen her for thirty years!! I find Winter Legends a bit too,ott,these days,to play that often! You can feel Bax's emotions running riot! The sweat pouring off his forehead,by the bucket load,as he composed! ;D It's very heart on sleeve,to put it mildy! ???  A bit,purple,to be ever taken too seriously,I suppose! Margaret Fingerhut is great in those recordings,by the way! I'd love to have been able to watch the recording,as it took place! You don't hear much from her these days,recording wise! She has a website,though! The Symphonic Variations is more tightly structured;and a little less steamy! But when someone,like Hurwitz,says that British Composers are all very stiif upper lip,and can't express their feelings,I can't help thinking of these two works (particularly,Winter Legends).

The Stanley Bate Piano Concerto No 2,is a beauty!

It was the Boult recording of the VW Piano Concerto which 'did it',for me! I quite liked it before I heard it. But it was that recording which made it one of my favourite VW works. The Thomson recording is very good,too. I will listen to it,today! (I've been going through the Thomson cycle).

I suppose there's Fould's Dynamic Triptych?!! Any thoughts on that?! I think it's quite good! Although,I've got to confess,I took my copy to a charity shop!!

Bridge's Phantasm has,very recently,shot to near the top of my list!

Quote from: J on July 07, 2019, 09:35:27 AM
Sure, - one could name 20 or 30 more as well.

But Irons' operative word was "decent",  not merely "existing", - and apparently he believes Ireland's entry is among the very few in that respect.

If we accept "decent" as meaning (via this raft of synonyms - thank God for cut and paste(!): satisfactory, reasonable, fair, acceptable, adequate, sufficient, sufficiently good, good enough, ample, up to scratch, up to the mark, up to standard, up to par, competent, not bad, all right, average, tolerable, passable, suitable; (informal) OK, okay, up to snuff  by my reckoning ALL of the works by the composers I listed are AT LEAST "decent" but each to their own I suppose......

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 09, 2019, 01:55:06 AM
I think Mathias' Piano Concertos are fantastic,personally! ;D I also,like Bax's Winter Legends and Symphonic Variations. I remember being a bit shocked when I came on this Message Board only to find out that I was in a very small minority,who liked Winter Legends! Actually,probably just me!! :( I nearly wore out the original Lp;and have always associated it with some girl (a blonde) I had a crush on! Sad,because I have an idea she did fancy me! But her Dad was the local hard man,and would have probably put me in A & E! Someone here said it made him think of Woolly Mammoths! I don't think she looked like that! She was slim and blonde! Although I haven't seen her for thirty years!! I find Winter Legends a bit too,ott,these days,to play that often! You can feel Bax's emotions running riot! The sweat pouring off his forehead,by the bucket load,as he composed! ;D It's very heart on sleeve,to put it mildy! ???  A bit,purple,to be ever taken too seriously,I suppose! Margaret Fingerhut is great in those recordings,by the way! I'd love to have been able to watch the recording,as it took place! You don't hear much from her these days,recording wise! She has a website,though! The Symphonic Variations is more tightly structured;and a little less steamy! But when someone,like Hurwitz,says that British Composers are all very stiif upper lip,and can't express their feelings,I can't help thinking of these two works (particularly,Winter Legends).

The Stanley Bate Piano Concerto No 2,is a beauty!

It was the Boult recording of the VW Piano Concerto which 'did it',for me! I quite liked it before I heard it. But it was that recording which made it one of my favourite VW works. The Thomson recording is very good,too. I will listen to it,today! (I've been going through the Thomson cycle).

I suppose there's Fould's Dynamic Triptych?!! Any thoughts on that?! I think it's quite good! Although,I've got to confess,I took my copy to a charity shop!!

Interesting. You have encouraged me to have another go with 'Winter Legends' which I always thought rather inferior to 'Symphonic Variations'. It is coupled with the newly released Lyrita release of Bax's Second Symphony conducted by Eugene Goossens.

When I was going out with my wife I played her John Foulds's 'Dynamic Triptych' foolishly thinking that she would be impressed. Her only response was (sarcastically), 'Well, it certainly is very dynamic!'. I think that we probably then went back to listening to the 'Penguin Cafe Orchestra'.

I rate 'Phantasm' and the 'Dynamic Triptych' very highly and tend to enjoy almost everything I have heard by Bridge and Foulds. Must stop now to watch the Great ITV Leadership Debate.  ::)

Quote from: Irons on July 07, 2019, 12:44:12 AM
I think you are right Ireland's PC needs time. It must be said that decent British piano concertos are thin on the ground but this is one.
By the way, hats off to Jeffrey. Thanks to his mention of "Legend" For Piano and Orchestra I listened to the work and enjoyed it very much.

Glad you enjoyed it Lol.
:)

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 09, 2019, 07:49:24 AM
If we accept "decent" as meaning (via this raft of synonyms - thank God for cut and paste(!): satisfactory, reasonable, fair, acceptable, adequate, sufficient, sufficiently good, good enough, ample, up to scratch, up to the mark, up to standard, up to par, competent, not bad, all right, average, tolerable, passable, suitable; (informal) OK, okay, up to snuff  by my reckoning ALL of the works by the composers I listed are AT LEAST "decent" but each to their own I suppose......

My Lord, do not discuss a phrase said by me! It was a throwaway line said with little thought. I wish I hadn't said it.  :-X

Thought I'd bump up this thread. The sad departure of cilgwyn means that there is likely to be less traffic on this thread as he often contributed to it. From WAYLT thread - am greatly enjoying this fine Lyrita release (possibly my favourite Ireland CD), especially the 'Legend' and 'These Things Shall Be' - my favourite performances of both works:
(//)

After Elgar and RVW, John Ireland must be part of a select group of England's most important composers. A Chandos double CD of Ireland's chamber works is I think my CD purchase of 2019. The performance of Ireland's most important chamber work, the first Violin Sonata, is outstanding and trumps two other recordings (one on Lyrita) I own on LP.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51By14q-xtL._AC_SX466_.jpg)

Quote from: Irons on January 03, 2020, 08:09:15 AM
After Elgar and RVW, John Ireland must be part of a select group of England's most important composers. A Chandos double CD of Ireland's chamber works is I think my CD purchase of 2019. The performance of Ireland's most important chamber work, the first Violin Sonata, is outstanding and trumps two other recordings (one on Lyrita) I own on LP.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51By14q-xtL._AC_SX466_.jpg)

That is indeed a gorgeous set, recommended to me by member Luke of olden times. Mordkovitch had such a beautiful, fluid tone, I treasure every recording of hers I have heard. I recall the cello sonata as my favorite composition in the set.

Quote from: vandermolen on January 03, 2020, 01:44:48 AM
Thought I'd bump up this thread. The sad departure of cilgwyn means that there is likely to be less traffic on this thread as he often contributed to it. From WAYLT thread - am greatly enjoying this fine Lyrita release (possibly my favourite Ireland CD), especially the 'Legend' and 'These Things Shall Be' - my favourite performances of both works:
(//)

+1 - a very fine and generous collection.  "These Things Shall Be" always seems such an improbable Ireland score - John Carol Case's voice is so embedded in my inner ear singing his loftily optimistic verse.  I'm still not sure I really buy into it at all - but this is a great version.  One of the collections Lyrita has released as part of their "Studio Master" hi-res series.  I haven't heard this one but to judge by those I have, this will be very fine - even if you are download intolerant....!

Thank you Lol, Ratliff and RS for responding to my earlier post  :)
That Chandos CD of Ireland's chamber music looks most enticing. I've always had a soft spot for 'These Things Shall Be' ever since taking Boult's Lyrita LP out of the High Street Kensington Music Library (where I discovered do much interesting music) in my youth. Coincidentally I just received this CD and was most impressed by Ireland's Cello Sonata which I don't recall hearing before:
(//)

I must give the cello sonata a listen after such a strong advocacy from Ratliff and Jeffrey.

Quote from: vandermolen on January 03, 2020, 09:14:38 AM
Thank you Lol, Ratliff and RS for responding to my earlier post  :)
That Chandos CD of Ireland's chamber music looks most enticing. I've always had a soft spot for 'These Things Shall Be' ever since taking Boult's Lyrita LP out of the High Street Kensington Music Library (where I discovered do much interesting music) in my youth. Coincidentally I just received this CD and was most impressed by Ireland's Cello Sonata which I don't recall hearing before:

A good set of works on that CD, Jeffrey. I like both the Bridge and Delius sonatas. I did get a chance to listen to the Ireland, which is brooding and deep.

(https://img.discogs.com/hy0Q_9s8GGqKDkRsmcxecIm3y9w=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7530774-1443390080-9185.gif.jpg)

Well, just a bump after a year and a half, but currently looking at my modest (about 8 CDs) Ireland collection - yesterday, listening to some of his piano works, shown below - I was perusing a number of online sites (including Amazon USA) and looking at reviews - wondering if I need to add/cull my solo piano CDs, just own the two in the top row, which amazingly have no duplications.

Recordings currently available on solo piano date back to the late 1950s w/ two pianists having worked w/ Ireland personally, i.e. Alan Rowlands (1929-2012) and Eric Parkin (1925-Present?) - both have 3-CD collections on the Lyrita label (below); Rowlands in mono from late 50s-60s and Parkin from the 1970s.  Parkin has re-recorded for Chandos on 3 discs (2 shown below); John Lenehan on Naxos (3 solo); and Mark Bebbington on Somm x 4 CDs.  So, just a few questions: 1) Are the old Lyrita packages dated as to sound, esp. w/ Rowlands; and 2) What are some of the favorites of the more recent recordings and performers?  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/715AenwgExL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SjG7jAaIL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fZR4XtM4L._SX522_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81RLEmSs8tS._SL1452_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/7194WsapDUL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ItslZR1RL.jpg) (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/NX0461.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511cWuivCML.jpg)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2021, 07:41:31 AM
Well, just a bump after a year and a half, but currently looking at my modest (about 8 CDs) Ireland collection - yesterday, listening to some of his piano works, shown below - I was perusing a number of online sites (including Amazon USA) and looking at reviews - wondering if I need to add/cull my solo piano CDs, just own the two in the top row, which amazingly have no duplications.

Recordings currently available on solo piano date back to the late 1950s w/ two pianists having worked w/ Ireland personally, i.e. Alan Rowlands (1929-2012) and Eric Parkin (1925-Present?) - both have 3-CD collections on the Lyrita label (below); Rowlands in mono from late 50s-60s and Parkin from the 1970s.  Parkin has re-recorded for Chandos on 3 discs (2 shown below); John Lenehan on Naxos (3 solo); and Mark Bebbington on Somm x 4 CDs.  So, just a few questions: 1) Are the old Lyrita packages dated as to sound, esp. w/ Rowlands; and 2) What are some of the favorites of the more recent recordings and performers?  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/715AenwgExL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SjG7jAaIL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fZR4XtM4L._SX522_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81RLEmSs8tS._SL1452_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/7194WsapDUL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ItslZR1RL.jpg) (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/NX0461.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511cWuivCML.jpg)

Eric Parkin died last year at a very old age. In the link below there is a fine performance of E J Moeran's 'Berceuse' (1933) accompanied by images of places associated with the composer:
https://slippedisc.com/2020/10/death-of-favoured-bbc-pianist-96/
I don't know all of those Ireland recordings but I especially like the top left Chandos release of orchestral works and the Naxos CD of piano pieces, featuring the London pieces.

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2021, 07:41:31 AM
Well, just a bump after a year and a half, but currently looking at my modest (about 8 CDs) Ireland collection - yesterday, listening to some of his piano works, shown below - I was perusing a number of online sites (including Amazon USA) and looking at reviews - wondering if I need to add/cull my solo piano CDs, just own the two in the top row, which amazingly have no duplications.

Recordings currently available on solo piano date back to the late 1950s w/ two pianists having worked w/ Ireland personally, i.e. Alan Rowlands (1929-2012) and Eric Parkin (1925-Present?) - both have 3-CD collections on the Lyrita label (below); Rowlands in mono from late 50s-60s and Parkin from the 1970s.  Parkin has re-recorded for Chandos on 3 discs (2 shown below); John Lenehan on Naxos (3 solo); and Mark Bebbington on Somm x 4 CDs.  So, just a few questions: 1) Are the old Lyrita packages dated as to sound, esp. w/ Rowlands; and 2) What are some of the favorites of the more recent recordings and performers?  Dave :)

To my mind you won't go wrong with any of those duscs as they all are well and sensitively played by pianists who have affinity with the genre and technique to spare.  I don't know the mono Lyrita - but I used to find the old Lyrita mono sound quite "boxy".  The Eric Parkin Lyrita set was my point of entry into Ireland's piano music so I do have "first love" syndrome there - I never felt the need to hear the Chandos remakes.  Lenehan is good but not my 1st choice.  I find Mark Bebbington to be absoultely excellent in all the 20th Century British piano music and that is certainly the case with his Ireland discs - from memory he also includes a couple of unpublished/rarities.

Once you've explored Ireland do hear Bebbington's Frank Bridge discs too.  Also, as Vandermolen alludes to - Moearn and Ireland share a very similar piano sound-world.  The excellent new Moeran biography details the extensive private lessons Moeran had with Ireland the result of which was a fastidiousness in his composing that lasted the rest of his life.  However, the point is also made that Moeran's musical style influenced Ireland too.  There are piano pieces by both composers that sound like the other's work!  For Moeran's piano music there are far fewer choices - but this old Parkin disc is a very reliable guide.....

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91-S34Hq7SL._AC_SX466_.jpg)

Quote from: vandermolen on July 31, 2021, 08:35:45 AM
Eric Parkin died last year at a very old age. In the link below there is a fine performance of E J Moeran's 'Berceuse' (1933) accompanied by images of places associated with the composer:
https://slippedisc.com/2020/10/death-of-favoured-bbc-pianist-96/
I don't know all of those Ireland recordings but I especially like the top left Chandos release of orchestral works and the Naxos CD of piano pieces, featuring the London pieces.

Link lovely, Jeffrey. Thanks for posting.

For a non-British view, which is no bad thing, I enjoy a John Ireland recital by the Israeli pianist, Daniel Adni.

The early Rowlands set recorded in Richard Itter's home studio are very dry but there is gain as well as loss. There is an authenticity as if Rowland, and others of the period, are performing between the speakers in my listening room. Not the greatest fidelity but real.

My favourite British piano pieces are Ireland's "Sarnia" and Moeran's "Stalham River".

Quote from: Irons on August 01, 2021, 01:25:25 AM
Link lovely, Jeffrey. Thanks for posting.

For a non-British view, which is no bad thing, I enjoy a John Ireland recital by the Israeli pianist, Daniel Adni.

The early Rowlands set recorded in Richard Itter's home studio are very dry but there is gain as well as loss. There is an authenticity as if Rowland, and others of the period, are performing between the speakers in my listening room. Not the greatest fidelity but real.

My favourite British piano pieces are Ireland's "Sarnia" and Moeran's "Stalham River".

Looks like a great LP Lol.

Well, since I already owned V. 1 of Ireland's Piano Works on Naxos, simply decided to stick w/ John Lenehan and the bargain pricing (bought both for 14 Euros from JPC) - and re-listened to the first volume and look at some reviews (attached), so happy w/ the purchase. Thanks for the helpful comments.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71bzSWt5ZvL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/NX0461.jpg)

Ireland: A London Overture [Barbirolli]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/af8AAOSws95gxbk9/s-l500.jpg)


This is my first introduction to the orchestral music of Ireland. I find it to be both very engaging and exciting. I like both the composer's musical language and the orchestration in this work. It is music that I can easily relate to; it is quite lyrical and it has a grand sweep to it.

Quote from: aligreto on October 03, 2021, 04:31:14 AM
Ireland: A London Overture [Barbirolli]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/af8AAOSws95gxbk9/s-l500.jpg)


This is my first introduction to the orchestral music of Ireland. I find it to be both very engaging and exciting. I like both the composer's musical language and the orchestration in this work. It is music that I can easily relate to; it is quite lyrical and it has a grand sweep to it.

That HMV own label CD is one of my favourites with, arguably, the finest performances of all three works.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 03, 2021, 10:45:15 AM
That HMV own label CD is one of my favourites with, arguably, the finest performances of all three works.

Cheers, Jeffrey. They all certainly felt very fine indeed.

Why do you consider that Ireland never wrote a symphony?

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 13, 2022, 04:36:38 PM
Why do you consider that Ireland never wrote a symphony?

Well, he didn't really have any need to! He was perfectly talented at writing in most other forms, plus so many of his British colleagues were churning out symphonies like nobody's business anyways. ;)

Quote from: kyjo on February 13, 2022, 08:55:41 PM
Well, he didn't really have any need to! He was perfectly talented at writing in most other forms, plus so many of his British colleagues were churning out symphonies like nobody's business anyways. ;)

Good point, and, maybe this will have to do?  :D

You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Quote from: kyjo on February 13, 2022, 08:55:41 PM
Well, he didn't really have any need to! He was perfectly talented at writing in most other forms, plus so many of his British colleagues were churning out symphonies like nobody's business anyways. ;)

This makes good sense to me. I think that Ireland preferred working on a smaller scale, although works like Mai-Dun, the Piano Concerto, 'These Things Shall Be' and the 'Legend for Piano and Orchestra' have something of an epic/legendary quality about them.

Quote from: kyjo on February 13, 2022, 08:55:41 PM
Well, he didn't really have any need to! He was perfectly talented at writing in most other forms, plus so many of his British colleagues were churning out symphonies like nobody's business anyways. ;)

Maybe he thought, and he has a point, they were getting a bit above themselves. It is a characteristic of his generation to be self-depreciating and dislike self-promotion.

To my mind Ireland had a unique way of putting music together so that it has the seemingly contradictory characteristics of being free and rhapsodic, but still having a strong underlying structure. This is especially true of his chamber music. That is at odds with the formal structure of a symphony, with discrete movements which follow a traditional format. Even something like RVW's A London Symphony follows a fairly traditional four movement format, despite the fact that each of the movements verges on being a free fantasia. It seems to me that a "Symphony" does not line up with Ireland's artistic inclinations.

I take Ireland any day over someone like Stanford, who in my humble opinion, needs the scaffolding of a symphony to support his rather prosaic musical ideas.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on February 15, 2022, 08:06:40 AM
To my mind Ireland had a unique way of putting music together so that it has the seemingly contradictory characteristics of being free and rhapsodic, but still having a strong underlying structure. This is especially true of his chamber music. That is at odds with the formal structure of a symphony, with discrete movements which follow a traditional format. Even something like RVW's A London Symphony follows a fairly traditional four movement format, despite the fact that each of the movements verges on being a free fantasia. It seems to me that a "Symphony" does not line up with Ireland's artistic inclinations.

I take Ireland any day over someone like Stanford, who in my humble opinion, needs the scaffolding of a symphony to support his rather prosaic musical ideas.

Very much agree with this.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on February 15, 2022, 08:06:40 AM
I take Ireland any day over someone like Stanford, who in my humble opinion, needs the scaffolding of a symphony to support his rather prosaic musical ideas.

Whilst Ireland has a more distinctive voice than Stanford, the latter wrote interesting music besides symphonies: the Irish Rhapsodies, chamber music, concertos, choral works, etc. Old-fashioned and conservative? Yes, but there is also craftsmanship and nice ideas running throughout his output.

I have just finished listening to this CD: Ireland - A Downland Suite [Hickox]:


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41zxU0tt9jL._AC_SX466_.jpg)


A Downland Suite: I find the opening movement to be lyrical, exciting, interesting, spirited and engaging. The second movement has much more gravitas and it is quite a substantial movement in terms of its musical content, its rich harmonic scoring and its general atmosphere. I find it is a very engaging piece of music. The Allegretto resumes the flavour and atmosphere of the opening movement. The music is lyrical and the scoring is robust. The final movement is a spirited and an animated Rondo. It is expansive but also suitably well driven.

Orchestral Poem: I like the lyrical, expansive yet somewhat yearning, wistful and even disconcerting tone and atmosphere of this work. I particularly like the orchestration as I find it to be very successful in expressing the correct mood of the work. Ireland makes good use of every section of the orchestra.

Concertino Pastorale: Having only heard it this one time I feel that I need to listen to this work again at a later stage. I felt that the music was somewhat episodic and disjointed in the opening movement. I did immediately like its lyrical tone however with those wonderful, disconcerting double basses rumbling in the undergrowth yielding a wonderful atmosphere. The slow movement, on the other hand, is a richly coherent work. It basically has the same tone and atmosphere as the opening movement but its scoring is richer and the atmosphere is much more pastoral due to the tempo. The final movement is a great contrast and it is a terrific affair. It is really driven very well and full of exuberance and excitement.

Two Symphonic Studies: I like the musical language in both of these Studies and the orchestration used to convey that musical language. The works are also filled with atmosphere, drama and tension which are, again, very well presented by the orchestration.


Overall I found Ireland's musical language to have an interesting "voice". I will certainly listen to more of his music in the future.

Another excellent review Fergus. I've been enjoying the new Chandos release of Ireland's orchestral music which my daughter gave me for my birthday. One review was very sniffy about 'Satyricon' but I rather liked it.

Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2022, 12:11:59 AM
Another excellent review Fergus. I've been enjoying the new Chandos release of Ireland's orchestral music which my daughter gave me for my birthday. One review was very sniffy about 'Satyricon' but I rather liked it.

Cheers, Jeffrey. I have very little exposure to Ireland's music but, as mentioned above, I like what I hear and I will definitely come back for more.

Quote from: aligreto on August 04, 2022, 01:59:58 AM
Cheers, Jeffrey. I have very little exposure to Ireland's music but, as mentioned above, I like what I hear and I will definitely come back for more.

I've been enjoying 'Sarnia - an Island Sequence for Orchestra' (1940-41). Sarnia is apparently the Latin name for Guernsey, from where Ireland had to make a hasty departure (on one of the last boats) just before the Germans invaded. It was originally for piano and orchestrated later by Rodney Newton.
(//)

Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2022, 02:32:31 AM
I've been enjoying 'Sarnia - an Island Sequence for Orchestra' (1940-41). Sarnia is apparently the Latin name for Guernsey, from where Ireland had to make a hasty departure (on one of the last boats) just before the Germans invaded. It was originally for piano and orchestrated later by Rodney Newton.

(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=781.0;attach=89504;image)

Noted, Jeffrey. Thank you.

Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2022, 02:32:31 AM
I've been enjoying 'Sarnia - an Island Sequence for Orchestra' (1940-41). Sarnia is apparently the Latin name for Guernsey, from where Ireland had to make a hasty departure (on one of the last boats) just before the Germans invaded. It was originally for piano and orchestrated later by Rodney Newton.
(//)

Sarnia is a Martin Yates orchestration.... on this disc Rodney Newton did the Moeran Overture for a Festival.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 04, 2022, 06:57:36 AM
Sarnia is a Martin Yates orchestration.... on this disc Rodney Newton did the Moeran Overture for a Festival.

Oh, my mistake - thanks for the clarification.

I've seen quite a bit of discussion of Ireland on GMG recently, but hardly any mention of his two magnificent, substantial violin sonatas, which are full of passion, lyricism, and an occasional Irish folk influence (especially in the finales of both works). Lydia Mordkovitch and Ian Brown have recorded them as part of this excellent Chandos set:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51By14q-xtL._SY355_.jpg)

I have problems with Mordkovitch's intonation in some other recordings of hers, but not so here - she's in top form. Any admirer of Ireland's music must hear these violin sonatas (and his Cello Sonata, too, for that matter)!

Quote from: kyjo on August 07, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
I've seen quite a bit of discussion of Ireland on GMG recently, but hardly any mention of his two magnificent, substantial violin sonatas, which are full of passion, lyricism, and an occasional Irish folk influence (especially in the finales of both works). Lydia Mordkovitch and Ian Brown have recorded them as part of this excellent Chandos set:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51By14q-xtL._SY355_.jpg)

I have problems with Mordkovitch's intonation in some other recordings of hers, but not so here - she's in top form. Any admirer of Ireland's music must hear these violin sonatas (and his Cello Sonata, too, for that matter)!

Must investigate!

Quote from: vandermolen on August 07, 2022, 10:22:21 PM
Must investigate!

I have no doubt that you'd enjoy Ireland's violin and cello sonatas, Jeffrey. Fine as his atmospheric orchestral works are, these chamber pieces may very well represent some of Ireland's finest work.

Listening to Violin Sonata No. 1 now. From a later reissue of that same set which also includes The Holy Boy and the Phantasie Trio (assuming this is Trio No. 1)

Quote from: kyjo on August 08, 2022, 09:07:09 AM
I have no doubt that you'd enjoy Ireland's violin and cello sonatas, Jeffrey. Fine as his atmospheric orchestral works are, these chamber pieces may very well represent some of Ireland's finest work.

Thanks Kyle.

Quote from: Maestro267 on August 08, 2022, 10:37:34 AM
Listening to Violin Sonata No. 1 now. From a later reissue of that same set which also includes The Holy Boy and the Phantasie Trio (assuming this is Trio No. 1)

....and what did you think? :)

I have the Mordkovitch CD and recall it to be very good. But I thought of giving another pair of recordings of the 1st Violin Sonata a spin.

(https://i.imgur.com/uu7X5wE.jpg?1)

Alan Loveday was first violin of ASMF under Marriner. His reading of the sonata is introverted with a rich vein of melancholy in the second movement. Although the recording is not great - a production of the infamous Barrington-Coup - and will willingly eat my hat if ever reached the silver disc, I enjoyed this understated performance.

(https://i.imgur.com/NkKIyHn.jpg)

Yfrah Neaman enjoys a superb recording up to Lyrita's typically high standard. The performance could not be more different then Loveday. Neaman goes for broke but I found it all a bit relentless.

The production values are far higher with the Lyrita recording and Neaman plays with passion. But for me the unsung Loveday is truer to the spirit of John Ireland's Violin Sonata.

I have not heard a note of this major British composer. Where should I start?

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 19, 2023, 08:29:55 AMI have not heard a note of this major British composer. Where should I start?

Oh my!  Certainly the Piano Concerto(and the associated Legend), a selection of the piano music is very typical - try Sarnia.  Ireland is one of these composers very influenced by "place".  So he evokes quite magical visions of ancient places and peoples.  Unsurprisingly the two Boult/Lyrita discs are reliably fine and cover most of the key orchestral repertoire.  Hickox's Chandos discs are also fine - the recent Wilson/Sinfonia of London is very good but I think Boult is finer.  Bebbington is good for the piano music but so is Lenehan on Naxos.  Parkin's Lyrita survey is also an old favourite.  Good though the orchestral music is the real Ireland probably lies in the piano music/songs/chamber music.  He was at heart more of a miniaturist.....

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/LY0240.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71WiADrbi1L._AC_SY355_.jpg)(https://i.discogs.com/35OYYEr1M-qOhxqu6WN2xrop6pDvw83bRjB7Ozwc1TE/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE1NjUx/NjI3LTE1OTUyNjI0/ODEtMzE1Mi5qcGVn.jpeg)(https://i.discogs.com/E5uMfU1hxmVw3N0DHKSKdkdIuFux86hJYv-WkcJ_RMM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6L%5Bimg%20width=350%20height=350%5Dhttps://i.discogs.com/FTpI5ONeh5NG8uUwYqLyxziFv1qJIcSHWeNeOkCqAKM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI2MjI4/NjAzLTE2NzczNzg4/MDMtNTQzMy5qcGVn.jpeg)y9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExOTA3/NDM0LTE1NzI1NTE0/NzQtOTE2OS5qcGVn.jpeg[/img]

This is completely correct. From the orchestral music the Piano Concerto and Legend are essential to understanding Ireland's very special and unique idiom. From the piano music - perhaps the greatest body of British piano music, comparable to the very finest composer and with interesting relationships to both Debussy and Ravel - I suggest the following pieces are either the pinnacles or important for other reasons:

Decorations - The first of these three pieces, The Island Spell - which was inspired by blessed moments on Jersey - is one of Ireland's most impressionist works and close in spirit and technique to certain watery pieces by Debussy. The second, Moon Glade, is also close to Debussy, but the more chromatic Debussy of Et la lune descend sur le temple qui fut.

Sonata - a big romantic work with an intoxicating flow, it is pure Ireland. The second movement is one of his Chanctonbury Ring pieces, this being a mystically haunting location on the South Downs which may also lie behind Legend. (It should be obvious to those who have seen any of my recent posts that this is something I have been very engaged with in the last year, and that Chanctonbury was one of the destinations I visited on my project)

London Pieces - reflective of the town in which he lived, there are strongly Debussyian moments here too, especially in the last piece, Soho Forenoons, which shares characteristics with Debussy's Minstrels. But it is a strangely sad little piece, and very much in Ireland's style - the pianism more Ravelian in this one.

Amberley Wild Brooks (another of my visits), Equinox (another possible Chanctonbury one), April - three of his finest miniatures, the first two (and maybe the third) reflective of places on his beloved South Downs.

Sonatina - the Ravel influence is clear in this wonderful, tart little piece which, at the same time, influenced Howells' sonatina half a century later. It contains a great, hidden rebuke to Bax (a second subject based on the repeating notes CAD) which I love.

Sarnia - probably his piano masterpiece, a stunning three movement portrait of Guernsey.

All of his piano music is consummate stuff. His technique and his self-criticism were both powerful. His style is instantly recognisable and addictive. One of my favourite British composers. Of many other great works let me recommend his Cello Sonata (with a second movement haunted by a different location on the downs), which is one of the finest I know.

Thanks very much, RS & Luke. This should be plenty to get started. The Boult Lyrita stuff looks great, and then I suppose I'll have to check out some of the solo piano music too.

For me you can't beat Parkin in the PC/Legend, just FWIW.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 19, 2023, 09:59:39 AM(https://i.discogs.com/FTpI5ONeh5NG8uUwYqLyxziFv1qJIcSHWeNeOkCqAKM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI2MjI4/NjAzLTE2NzczNzg4/MDMtNTQzMy5qcGVn.jpeg)

For the last one I couldn't see.
VS

Quote from: Luke on March 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AMFor me you can't beat Parkin in the PC/Legend, just FWIW.

The "Lyrita Effect"!!!

I'm enjoying this fine disc which I asked my daughter to get me last Christmas - a good introduction to Ireland I think:

My list of essential Ireland piano music last night should really have included a few more pieces. I sat at the piano after writing it and immersed myself in this sumptuously beautiful body of music. I'm not sure why I missed off the following, in particular

Greenways - a three-movement work which exhibits Ireland in his most characteristic moods, utterly in control of technique, memorable in material, and very touching. Actually one of my favourite pieces of his

Ballad - I think this is Ireland's most advanced score, a complex and difficult work with some mysteriously stark writing and harmonies. But it speaks his individual language, which is so much a part of him that it sometimes seems all his best music is made of one piece - for instance in the Ballade there are pages which could have been torn from the central movement of the Piano Concert

Ballade of London Nights - a tricky one as Ireland never completed it, and the version you hear ends by simply returning to the opening material, which I don't think Ireland would have done in such a bald fashion. But it is a dizzying, hallucinatory ride in the centre, where Ireland goes for a night on the town, and the writing in this portion has a rawness, an elemental quality, like nothing else in his output.

Ballade of London Nights is an extraordinary piece, really. Here is some of what I have written about it in my book...

Quote from: LukeLike the similarly-titled Ballad for piano (1929), and like Legend, which was also composed in 1930, the Ballade of London Nights is one of Ireland's most visionary works. It starts as if a plainer, humbler cousin of Chelsea Reach—a similar but simpler and sparer rocking motion suggests the riverside, perhaps. Small complexities sneak in gradually as the music builds and becomes more dramatic—the city approaches. We begin to hear brief snatches of other sounds, interrupting the 'river music' more and more until it vanishes in the tumult amid cascades of notes. We are bombarded with a number of different musical 'scenes,' rapidly transitioning from one to the next as if we are walking from bar to bar, from club to club—we are in central London now, but the sweet, sad placidity of Soho Forenoons has been usurped by the wild raucousness of this putative 'Soho Nights.' The noise is a harsh racket—but a joyous, anarchic one. Much of the layout of the virtuosic piano writing in this central section is, again, quite Debussian and also reminiscent of certain pieces by Ravel and even, at moments, Stravinsky's Petrouchka. The harmonies grow heavily bitonal, finally coalescing into an atonal blur which rides rampantly up and down the keyboard until its hallucinatory haze subsides into the dark, peaceful ripples of the river at night; the opening music reappears as we return home.

I initially got to know Ireland through his chamber music, specifically this set which I believe was recommended to me by Luke more than a decade ago.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51By14q-xtL.jpg)

I later got to know Ireland's orchestral music and was flummoxed, I could hardly believe it was the same composer. The chamber music seemed so gently rhapsodic, beautifully structured even though it conformed to no traditional structure. The orchestral music was shockingly extroverted, to me. All of it is great.

I have the solo piano music but have yet to listen.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 20, 2023, 04:56:47 AMI have the solo piano music but have yet to listen.

Do, do, do!! It's the beating heart of of his output.

Listening to this....why not start with it. A faultless, exquisitely done work, Ireland at his best, all his finest features most wonderfully integrated.