Getting at Handel's operas and oratorios

Started by Tancata, July 10, 2007, 01:25:37 PM

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Harry

Quote from: uffeviking on February 27, 2008, 10:56:05 AM
Some clarification, please, if I may ask:

The advise you are seeking is only for CDs? You have not ventured into the treasures of seeing a large number of Handel's operas on DVD? Incredible riches awaiting you to see the operas performed by outstanding singers, actors!  ;)

I am open for DVD's as CD's.
But DVD's are rather expensive, so I first sample the music on cheap cd's, and when its worth my while, I will follow recommendations given.

Harry

Quote from: E..L..I..A..S.. =) on February 27, 2008, 11:35:16 AM
I think in Handel, the recording is more important than the music. What I mean is when 1 composer can make a fiasco out of it (Minkowski) another conductor can make the work fabulous (McGegan). Don't cheap out Harry!

I listen purely for the music, and can hear that even if the performance sucks Elias., the music is good.


Mozart

Quote from: Harry on February 27, 2008, 12:35:46 PM
I listen purely for the music, and can hear that even if the performance sucks Elias., the music is good.

I don't think I agree. The music is good, but the vocal lines are what Handel stresses and a poor singer makes a good aria boring. For Handel's music to be good the interpretation must be good. If I was stuck with Minkowski's Ariodante I would have never liked it, but luckily I listened to the McGegan one first and it clicked. Among the amazon reviews I've read, I have the unpopular opinion that McGegan's is far superior but what do amazon reviewers know? There are 2 types, 1 who loves everything and 1 who hates everything.

Harry

Quote from: E..L..I..A..S.. =) on February 27, 2008, 06:16:25 PM
I don't think I agree. The music is good, but the vocal lines are what Handel stresses and a poor singer makes a good aria boring. For Handel's music to be good the interpretation must be good. If I was stuck with Minkowski's Ariodante I would have never liked it, but luckily I listened to the McGegan one first and it clicked. Among the amazon reviews I've read, I have the unpopular opinion that McGegan's is far superior but what do amazon reviewers know? There are 2 types, 1 who loves everything and 1 who hates everything.


I will keep in mind all you said Elias.
And by the way I like most of the things McGegan does. I started with Handel's Brockes Music long ago, and than collected a few thing with him over the years.

val

Two of Händel best oratorios, Semele and Hercules are, indeed operas.

Both are great masterpieces. I would suggest Semele's version directed by John Nelson with Kathleen Battle and Hercules conducted by Gardiner with Sarah Walker and Jennifer Smith.

Regarding the operas that I have listened, Ariodante and Julius Cesar are my favorite.

I would also mention an oratorio, composed when Händel was in Italy, La Resurrezione, a work with an extraordinary melodic inspiration. There is a very good interpretation of Hogwood.

Dancing Divertimentian

I'm a big fan of HIP Handel. Here's what I own and can whole-heartedly recommend them:















Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Dancing Divertimentian

#68
Here's the rest of what I own:













Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mozart

Quote from: donwyn on February 28, 2008, 04:53:55 PM
I'm a big fan of HIP Handel. Here's what I own and can whole-heartedly recommend them:

















Disgusting dude! You choose the Gardiner Agrippina over the McGegan one? Maybe its time to clean out the earwax huh? Also Minkowski's Ariodante over McGegan's? Anne Sofie von Otter is horrible as Ariodante! McGegan's period orchestra sounds better than Minkowski's, and its even at a tempo where one can actually hear things!





This is Handel's best oratorio, and it deserves more praise than Messiah:



And I'll post arias from each in a minute

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: E..L..I..A..S.. =) on February 28, 2008, 05:44:26 PM
Disgusting dude! You choose the Gardiner Agrippina over the McGegan one? Maybe its time to clean out the earwax huh? Also Minkowski's Ariodante over McGegan's? Anne Sofie von Otter is horrible as Ariodante! McGegan's period orchestra sounds better than Minkowski's, and its even at a tempo where one can actually hear things!

I despise McGegan in Handel...and I adore Minkowski...

Pretty much everything you stand for in Handel I oppose. ;D



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mozart

Ariodante

Spero Per Voi
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/q-fxIQEoZg0

Volate, amori
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/q86jPlyDgng

Apri Le Luci
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/lq0243bSWto

Con L'ali Di Costanza (L. Hunt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ONkrwFiFudQ

Compare to Minkowski and Otter (vomit inducing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/wh3Qre6-GzM


Agrippina While Gardiner's and McGegan's Agrippina are both great, the other characters and the orchestra are much better in McGegan's.

Non Ho Cor Che Per Amarti
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/DT5hDBgQshs

Vaghe Perle
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/rn2iyYiSDMQ
Con Saggio
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Ge4DyNwe7LQ
L'alma mia fra le tempeste
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/T461CLIIlGw
Se giunge un dispetto
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/OuJRalNh-dw
Ogni Vento
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uBjcv8PV7Bw
Col Peso
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/yGyHLleeX-g


Ottone


Falsa Immagine
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/F985QeYcLR0
Pensa Ad Amare
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/5BWPXB1tkCE
Lovely Aria Benche Mi Sia Crudel

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xFWtd8GKlxQ
Gode L'alma Consolata
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Ser7xRuwBrA
Affani Del Pensier
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/vWFdpZrDbtM
Alla Fana
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/UXeqtlE0kKw



Ahh Im tired now...

Judas Maccabaeus
So shall the lute and harp awake
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/oRpC_bgO5u4
From Mighty Kings
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/PXbz17JyzQA

Come ever smilling liberty
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/PCLBOECjRzk

Wretched Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/1B-NP2ETC7M

Mozart

Quote from: donwyn on February 28, 2008, 05:58:44 PM
I despise McGegan in Handel...and I adore Minkowski...

Pretty much everything you stand for in Handel I oppose. ;D





Well I guess we won't be seeing each other at the opera anytime soon :P But just in case, bring some boxing gloves  :D

Harry

The Messiah I have, and the rest you have posted will keep me busy for a long time.
Thank you very much.
My list is about 2 meters long by now, so I cannot complain. ;D

Harry

Elias me lad, amazing video's, that will keep me busy also, for a long time.
I am grateful for all these samples, and it will help me enormously, I am sure about that.
Pfffffffffff, all the work you made of it. :o :)

Morigan


Mozart

Quote from: Harry on February 28, 2008, 11:11:28 PM
Elias me lad, amazing video's, that will keep me busy also, for a long time.
I am grateful for all these samples, and it will help me enormously, I am sure about that.
Pfffffffffff, all the work you made of it. :o :)

Your welcome Harry, anything so you make the right decision. As you can see, I'm low on supporters!

The new erato

I have quite a lot of the sets that are mentioned here, and am in general quite firmly in the Minkowski camp, but in the case of the Ariodante (a major opera) choice is not clearcut. A case can be had for having both (as I do).

Elgarian

I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing here. There has been a similar thread to this one, but no one has posted in it for over a year, and I received a warning when I tried to add to it. "Please consider starting a new thread", it advised me, in red. So I'm starting a new thread. A tyro, discoverer's thread.

What I'm looking for is a place I can keep returning to, to swap notes and chat about exploring Handel operas for the first time. I'm feeling not a little overwhelmed, simply because there's so much to explore, and because I've spent most of my life completely unaware of Handel beyond Messiah, Fireworks, and Water Music. I had no idea - really no idea at all - just how easy it is to enjoy (well, become obsessed by, more like) the operas/cantatas etc. I even came to him by an unorthodox route: imagine an Englishman discovering Handel after first falling in love with French Baroque and then deciding, almost as an afterthought, to see what was happening in England at the time ..... and then discovering that there was a 250-year anniversary in progress.

OK, let me make a start. I have tickets to see Ariodante later this year, so have been listening to this:



Wonderful stuff, of course, but two arias stand out for me - and I know this will seem embarrassingly tyro-esque enthusiasm for Handelians who know this stuff backwards, much as I suppose I might feel about someone who bubbled over after just discovering 'Nimrod' on listening to the Enigma Variations for the first time - but I have to start somewhere, you see. I have to get the 'bubbling over' bit out somehow.

First up is 'Scherza infida'; I can't get past it. I listen to the disc, and when I reach this I just can't resist pausing, wiping the tears away, and starting again. I'd heard nothing of Lorraine Hunt Lieberson before this, but my goodness she wrings my heart out when she sings this. The bitterness, the grief - they're palpable.

And then, oh then ... there's 'Dopo notte'. How am I supposed to sit still when listening to this? I want to march about, open the windows, invite the neighbours in, feed them with champagne. And this, mark you, is with the Lorraine Hunt version. What happened next was that I belatedly got around to listening to the coverdisc devoted to Handel which came stuck to the April issue of Gramophone, and there heard, for the first time, Janet Baker's rendering, with Leppard conducting - taken, I think from an album of arias she made that's now out of print.  Well, the roof blew off. I played it over and over, striding around the room, waving my arms and punching the air. This is more rock and roll than rock and roll. The orchestra drives the music along like a steam train, and Baker takes it to the mountaintop. It's worth buying the April back issue of Gramophone just to get this, if you don't have it.

And this is the same composer who wrote the delicate pastoral watercolour music of Acis and Galatea? Unbelievable. But that's another story.

The new erato

Welcome among us Handel-nuts. I am PARTICULARLY fond of Handels Italian works, and have been slowly working my way towards a complete collection of his Italian operas the last 7-8 years, adding 2-4 new works to my collection each year as the record companies sees fit to add new HIP recordings. You have certainly started with one of my 4-5 favorite works.

Let me just add that I strongly recommend, as well, his early Italian cantatas (lots of ideas in the operas were nicked from these) and that Glossa's series (currently at 5 releases, and cheaply available on prestoclassical.co.uk) is superb. There are fine releases from the likes of Kozena and von Otter (IIRC) on Archiv as well.