Julián Carrillo was a Mexican composer, conductor, violinist and music theorist, famous for developing a theory of microtonal music which he dubbed "The Thirteenth Sound" (Sonido 13).
Having not completed primary studies, he was ignorant of the acoustic basis of music—so he was fascinated when Ortega discussed laws governing generation of fundamental intervals in music. For example, when a violin string is depressed (stopped) at its midpoint, it produces a pitch twice the frequency of (an octave above) the open string. When a string is stopped at one-third, the remaining two-thirds vibrates a perfect fifth higher than the open string (almost exactly equivalent to 5/8 of an octave). Carrillo explored these relationships in experiments. For a while he tried, but couldn't divide the string further than into eight equal parts. Then he left the traditional way of dividing the string into two, three, four, five, six, seven and eight equal parts, and, using a razor to stop the string, divided the fourth string of his violin between G and A into sixteen parts. He could produce sixteen clearly different sounds within a whole tone.
https://www.youtube.com/v/p5IAohoYKaQ
Greetings! I discovered Julian Carrillo many years ago through the Christopher Columbus Prelude and the a capella (!) quarter-tone Mass for Pope John XXIII.
These works are also available on YouTube.
Quote from: Cato on February 11, 2015, 03:52:05 AM
I discovered Julian Carrillo many years ago through the Christopher Columbus Prelude
The first work by this author that I listened. A semi-hidden jewel.
Quote from: epicous on February 11, 2015, 06:07:42 AM
The first work by this author that I listened. A semi-hidden jewel.
Is that on that CD with Harrison and Xenakis? I have one Carillo piece exuding atmosphere.
Trouble is that there seems to be very little of Carrillo's music that was anywhere near as impressive as the Columbus Prelude: much of it seems to demonstrate a few interesting intonations and not a lot else. I've heard a fair number of pieces - perhaps not the right ones?
Quote from: Dax on February 11, 2015, 11:34:57 AM
Trouble is that there seems to be very little of Carrillo's music that was anywhere near as impressive as the Columbus Prelude: much of it seems to demonstrate a few interesting intonations and not a lot else. I've heard a fair number of pieces - perhaps not the right ones?
Check YouTube under his name and you can judge for yourself: to be sure, I have not heard all that many either, simply because the recordings are not there. YouTube seems to have a good number, maybe all that are available or that have been available.
You are right though: some experimenters were content to let the unusual sounds carry the work, and did not seem to worry about much as else, as if the very odd plate was supposed to persuade you that the celery sticks were a steak.
Quote from: snyprrr on February 11, 2015, 06:22:45 AM
Is that on that CD with Harrison and Xenakis? I have one Carillo piece exuding atmosphere.
This one:
Julián Carrillo, conductor / Asociación de Conciertos
http://musicaiberoamericanadeconcierto.blogspot.mx/2011/07/antologia-de-la-musica-clasica-mexicana.html
Quote from: epicous on February 13, 2015, 04:45:42 PM
This one:
Julián Carrillo, conductor / Asociación de Conciertos
http://musicaiberoamericanadeconcierto.blogspot.mx/2011/07/antologia-de-la-musica-clasica-mexicana.html
This page offers more albums, including quarter-tone cello works:
http://musicaiberoamericanadeconcierto.blogspot.mx/search/label/Juli%C3%A1n%20Carrillo (http://musicaiberoamericanadeconcierto.blogspot.mx/search/label/Juli%C3%A1n%20Carrillo)
And here is a quarter-tone work from YouTube, although one instrument is tuned in 1/8's:
https://www.youtube.com/v/-pxA6CwiUGI
Last night the Momenta Quartet played Julián Carrillo's Eighth String Quartet in Quarter-Tones (c. 1958), based on his explorations of microtonal music, begun in 1916. He became known as the creator of "The Thirteenth Sound" ("Sonido 13," referring to microtones smaller than the standard 12 notes).
This eighth quartet - which I enjoyed (one friend found it a bit dry) - has its attractions. If nothing else, the extreme attention to tuning required - rapid ascending and descending scales in microtones - would drive most quartets insane.
In any case, I found a few references to Carrillo here and there on GMG, but nothing substantial. (And in 1950, he was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Physics.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juli%C3%A1n_Carrillo
--Bruce
Not familiar with this guy. Compare his music with somone similar?
Here's a version of Prelude to Columbus or Preludio a Colon by Carrillo which uses quarter, eighth and sixteenth-tones - with score. It's by far the most impressive work of his I've heard and not just for the colour and atmosphere.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGXhynluliA
Another version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOihGnn6HoE
The problem I've found with a couple of other Carrillo works I know lies in a rather simplistic "here's something you can do with quartertones" presentation with apparently little regard for musical continuity (Yes, this could be the performances, but I think not). Even the Preludio a Colon is not entirely free of this. I find it baffling that works as late as the 6 casi-sonatas en cuartos de tono (solo cello - 1959/64) should display this so crudely. I imagine there are better works somewhere - which ones?
We now have two Carrillo threads under "Composer discussion". Could they be combined?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23982.0.html
Here are some downloadable (if you click on "zip") recordings of Carrillo - tons of them. Hopefully there's something interesting apart from the Preludio a Colon. I picked up a CD of the solo cello sonatas some years back. They aren't!
http://www.sonido13.com/obras.html
Unfortunately, my impression is confirmed by this stash. Carrillo is a really rather duff composer. The early pieces are very traditional indeed, reasonably well written, but undistinguished. Most of the microtonal pieces tend to irritate after a bit both because of the "demonstration" element and an absence of coherence. There's little doubt that the Preludio a Colon is the most effective and atmospheric work but the Concertino of 1927 (1/4 tone violin, cello + guitar, 1/8 tone octavina, 1/16 tone horn + harp with non-microtonal orchestra) is certainly worth a listen. Apart possibly from the extract from the entirely vocal Misa a S.S. Juan XXIII, not a lot else is.
Whilst trying to establish exactly what an *octavina is, I happened across this album which looked interesting - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ivesharrisonccbpcvr - but then I suspect anything with which Johnny Reinhard is involved probably is.
*a specially constructed instrument (substituted by a cello in one recording), as is Carrillo's arpa citera.
I've lifted this from a discussion of microtonal music on another forum - http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,847.0.html - which some may find of interest.
I have the cello album in my wishlist for a long time, but the samples do not sound much interesting, so I'm hesitating to get it.
The Prelude is very good, thank you. I think Cromometrofonía and Cometa are also interesting, not resembling conventional music, but they sometimes sound like just going up and down on the microtone steps or meandering with ornamental passages. Even the Prelude, though it has a nice otherworldly mood, gives the similar feeling.
Thanks for the link to the microtonal thread. I found some interesting names & pieces there.
Quote from: Dax on October 04, 2015, 02:51:09 AMWhilst trying to establish exactly what an *octavina is, I happened across this album which looked interesting - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ivesharrisonccbpcvr - but then I suspect anything with which Johnny Reinhard is involved probably is.
I ordered that CD last year, but it was backordered and then cancelled. Have you listened to it?
Carrillo's music is uneven and unfortunately his best music remain either unplayed or unrecorded. The string quartets are in my opinion his best music in tonal, atonal, and microtonal idioms. Other good works include "I Think of You" (recorded in "Ideas," one of the CDs to come out of Johnny Reinhardt's festival).
http://www.rermegacorp.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&CatListingoffset=&Category_Code=CC&Product_Code=P-200212&Store_Code=RM&Initial=I
and Capricho for solo viola
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Sally-Ren%C3%A9e-Todd/Performer/268820-2
Preludio a Colón is indeed one of those works in which he is exploring the capabilities of microtonal scales (it is also one of Carrillo's first microtonal works, from 1924); in my opinion not his best music. It is also true that many of his works have that "demonstration" element and one needs to know his catalog well in order to find the worthier pieces (which can be quite satisfying). BTW, Cromometrofonía and Cometa are not by Carrillo but by some of his students and followers active after their teacher's death (David Espejo, Oscar Vargas, and Armando Nava).
The Moment Quartet is working on a project to play/premiere and record all of Carrillo's string quartets in the next couple of years. So far they have played his string quartets nos. 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 13; as well as "Murmullos" a short piece for string quartet and harp in 1/16 tones. Out of the microtonal quartets nos. 8 and 13 are my favorites. Nos. 4 and 6 are remarkable atonal works; in a way almost "Bartokian." Momenta will be playing 4, 6, and 13 in NYC at a concert at the Americas Society in February.
At any rate, if you are interested in finding out more about the guy, I will recommend you my recently published book In Search of Julián Carrillo and Sonido 13
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/in-search-of-julin-carrillo-and-sonido-13-9780190215781?facet_narrowbypubdate_facet=Next+3+months&facet_narrowbybinding_facet=Paperback&type=listing&lang=en&cc=us
Best regards.
Many thanks for the links!
The quarter-tone Mass for Pope John XXIII - sung a capella ??? - is not to be missed!
It is now available on YouTube:
For some reason the Flash is not working, so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIb6CebsDYA&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIb6CebsDYA&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu)
Quote from: Cato on November 09, 2015, 06:52:38 AM
It is now available on YouTube:
For some reason the Flash is not working, so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIb6CebsDYA&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIb6CebsDYA&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu)
The flash code may not work for a playlist.
Last night (for Mexican Independence Day!), the Momenta Quartet played two more of Carrillo's quartets, nos. 5 and 11. Such bracing pieces, extremely difficult to master and play: the latter one is from his microtonal period, and one look at the viola part showed off the extreme difficulty.
The good news: the quartet recorded three of them last June (for Naxos), and are recording all thirteen over the next few years.
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on September 17, 2022, 10:28:40 AM
Last night (for Mexican Independence Day!), the Momenta Quartet played two more of Carrillo's quartets, nos. 5 and 11. Such bracing pieces, extremely difficult to master and play: the latter one is from his microtonal period, and one look at the viola part showed off the extreme difficulty.
The good news: the quartet recorded three of them last June (for Naxos), and are recording all thirteen over the next few years.
--Bruce
WOW!!! Many thanks for the great news!!! I will start saving my pennies!
several are on YT now ....
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Juli%C3%A1n+Carrillo+%281875-1965%29%3A+String+quartet+no.+-+Momenta+Quartet
My review for The Strad of the Momenta Quartet in Carrillo's quartets nos. 5 and 11.
https://www.thestrad.com/reviews/concert-review-momenta-quartet/15597.article
-Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on November 13, 2022, 09:23:31 AMMy review for The Strad of the Momenta Quartet in Carrillo's quartets nos. 5 and 11.
https://www.thestrad.com/reviews/concert-review-momenta-quartet/15597.article
-Bruce
Excellent! Many thanks for the review!
Quote
By the time of no.11 (1962), Carrillo was in full quarter-tone mode, and its three movements show a refined, compressed energy – at times kept at bay, but at others allowed to explode. The microtones produce even more brilliant colours, with a relentless tangy edge. And it has to be said: though the intonation demands are extraordinary, the foursome kept everything pristinely tuned. Imagine a violent descending scale – all in quartertones – with the musicians creeping down in close chords, and you get a hint of the difficulties.
As a postscript, this past summer, the ensemble – which consists of violinists Emilie-Anne Gendron and Alex Shiozaki, violist Stephanie Griffin and cellist Michael Haas – has recorded Carrillo's quartets nos.5, 6, and 13, as part of a complete survey of all 13 quartets for Naxos.
Really great news!!!
Thanks so much, Cato — both for reading and for quoting!
-Bruce