GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 09:27:12 AM

Title: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 09:27:12 AM
Well, now I've really stepped in it,- the vast sea of post-WWII German Composers that is! It started with BA Zimmermann, and now I've forced myself through a death-march with Rihm (oy vey! the sheer volume), and have now claimed some semblance of detante with Ruzicka. And no, I haven't begun much with the East.

Here are just a few of the names:





Stockhausen (only because I ended up here last week)


Henze- also, can be omitted for Thread purposes, but, he DOES have a lot of stuff to weed through


BA Zimmermann
Udo Zimmermann
Walter Zimmermann

Rihm
Lachenmann
Holler
Ruzicka
Spahlinger
Grosskopf
Staebler
Schnebel
Frank Michael Beyer
Peter Michael Hamel*
Ablinger (do not want)
Staud
Herchet
Febel
Pintscher
Goldmann
Holliger
Cerha
Platz
Katzer
Bruttger
Hespos
Klaus Lang
Bernard Lang(?)
Klebe


It's an absolute quagmire!! HELP!!
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mirror Image on May 30, 2016, 09:29:55 AM
Good luck. :-\ I have as much interest in post-WWII German composers as I have in Baroque Era German composers. In other words, very little. :P
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: lescamil on May 30, 2016, 09:33:58 AM
Just from looking at your list, there are some Austrians and Swiss that found their way in there.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 09:37:18 AM
Good luck. :-\ I have as much interest in post-WWII German composers as I have in Baroque Era German composers. In other words, very little. :P

Ve haff vays auf making you hear us!


Seriously, some BAZ and Ruzicka,  and select Rihm and Lachenmann and Holler seems to be right up your (and mine) alley. I wouldn't steer you into unbridled noisy dreary ennui,... oy, das gerschmeldtefiske!!


Seriously, we will guide you to the gold mine...
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 09:38:33 AM
Just from looking at your list, there are some Austrians and Swiss that found their way in there.

ja, das ist Greater Germania


Insolence!! :P
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: The new erato on May 30, 2016, 09:40:07 AM
Your two last posts made my day!
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on May 30, 2016, 09:50:10 AM
snyprrr, you are my dream poster   ;D

I have listened to the majority of those listed, but indeed it is a never-ending journey. I'm trying to get more familiar with them. I have not yet listened at all to Beyer, Hamel, Febel, Goldmann, or Bruttger. Any thoughts with regards to those?

I'm hanging out in a hospital room with my mom right now, but I could see if there are any missing names that I'd recommend, later.

Just looking at your list and a database briefly, you might have forgotten:

Bauckholt
Birkenkötter
Brass
Denhoff
Eckert
Eggert
Herrmann
Heyn
Hirsch
Huber (Nicolaus A.)
Hübler
Kalitzke
Kriedler
Leyendecker
Mack
Mahnkopf
Maierhof
Müller-Siemens
Mundry
Obst
Oehring
Pröve
Quell
Reimann
Schleiermacher
Stiebler
Trojahn
Ullmann
Von Schweinitz
Walter
Widmann
Zapf
Zender
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mirror Image on May 30, 2016, 09:52:56 AM
Why don't you just include the Austrians too, synprrr?
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: ritter on May 30, 2016, 10:35:20 AM
Aber, wo ist Hans Werner Henze?  Und Giselher Klebe?
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Spineur on May 30, 2016, 10:58:10 AM
Karlheinz Stockhausen ??
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 02:57:24 PM
Your two last posts made my day!

FINLAND WAS ALWAAAYS OURS!!... uh... i mean,... hey, how ya doin 'Rato?!?!


From now on, this Thread will exclusively be moderated by the great German Composer Johnnes Kristoph Maria Hauslitz


Why don't you just include the Austrians too, synprrr?

Vy not include the Poles, ja? But das ist gut- vich vons arrre dey? Cerha?
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 03:02:03 PM
Aber, wo ist Hans Werner Henze?  Und Giselher Klebe?
LOL, now you're just baiting me! :laugh: Added to the Q

Karlheinz Stockhausen ??

Added


"I think the main thing with this long list is the chronological pecking order, and yes, Stockhausen looms above all, though, somewhat invisible..."
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 03:04:19 PM

Stockhausen (only because I ended up here last week)


Henze- also, can be omitted for Thread purposes, but, he DOES have a lot of stuff to weed through


Rihm


BA Zimmermann

Udo Zimmermann - basically one Opera, 'The White Rose' German resistance WWII
Walter Zimmermann - somewhat a minimalist-a little like process music -meets- Feldman ********3 very good CDs on Mode, very Feldmanesque

Rihm
Lachenmann
Holler
Ruzicka

Spahlinger - Lachenmann-like shards
Grosskopf - Arditti disc is almost better than feldman+ferneyhough?******
Staebler -serious yet fun- theatrical instrumental
Schnebel - arch Priest of High Modernism******
Frank Michael Beyer -moody and complex
Peter Michael Hamel*
Ablinger (do not want) -can't st-and his style
Christoph Staude
Johannes Maria Staud
Herchet WERGO disc dense complexity, one of the few Ardittis I sold... dreary??? grey??? no fun??? academic???
von Bose -the WERGO disc I have did not impress-SQ way overlong for the materials, somewhat academically grating, annoying (Mandelring)
Febel
Pintscher -I don't know if I've heard anything original here, ... just a name imo
Goldmann - worth some redearch*********
Holliger
Cerha
Platz - not much available- I enjoy the Arditti piece- he conducts a lot
Katzer -cutting edge all along one WERGO disc stands out********E/A pioneer
Bruttger -mostly spectral-
Hespos - the wackiest!!!
Klaus Lang
Bernard Lang(?)
Klebe

Bauckholt
Birkenkötter
Brass
Denhoff
Eckert
Eggert
Herrmann
Heyn
Hirsch
Huber (Nicolaus A.) - pretty wacky... worth a check
Hübler -100X more complex than Ferneyhough???
Kalitzke- conductor/composer- I highly enjoy a certain KAIROS disc
Kriedler
Leyendecker
Mack
Mahnkopf
Maierhof
Müller-Siemens
Mundry
Obst - as I recall,... "Kristalwelt"???... arch IRCAM type... a little more bracing than the French... 6.562/10
Oehring
Pröve -very good, highly enjoy CD he sent me, with Arditti and lots of chamber music... typical modernist
Quell
Reimann  ......any good???... King Lear???.....
Schleiermacher
Stiebler
Trojahn - a little conservative?? Bergian??? conductor too
Ullmann - Lachenmann like???
Von Schweinitz
Walter
Widmann -
Zapf
Zender arch Priest of High Modernism
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on May 30, 2016, 03:20:38 PM
I only excluded Henze and Stockhausen because I was drawing from a list of living composers.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
I only excluded Henze and Stockhausen because I was drawing from a list of living composers.

das ist vat I meant to say... check out new list updates... schnellentse!!!!!
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 03:44:05 PM
Both Rihm's and Lachenmann's Discographies tucker me out. And these labels... oy... they're like bent on my wallet's destruction, what with the rate of release on Wergo, ColLegno, Neos, and Kairos, to name just four of the most agregious(??) violators.

I'm glad we're in an era where we can at least sample things, and if we know our terrain, many times we can get a correct assessment of something even with a tiny little 30sec. clip. I've been plowing through Rihm, and it's just exhausting with someone like him,- chameleon.


I think I may have finally found an inlet for Lachenmann in the new Aimard recording of the concerto, which I only sampled yesterday. Lachenmann I really don't know how to approach beyond the Arditti. Kairos has seen to THAT!!!

Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on May 30, 2016, 05:59:29 PM
What do the cross-outs mean?
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 30, 2016, 06:37:41 PM
What do the cross-outs mean?

I guess they're just the "Big Eight", or whatever. They can be included, but all the other names are mostly 1 and 2 CD Composers. I've already discovered a few odd names tonight...



btw- Bruttger,- his famous piece 'Monolith' for Varese ensemble... there's a 2CD set of his stuff... somewhat spectral,,, mmm... if you've heard some of those French IRCAM CDs you've heard this- but this has no electronics. You can hear the whole thing on YouTube.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on May 30, 2016, 07:23:21 PM
Anyhow, my favorites of those listed and not crossed out, if I had to pick a handful, say, 15...:

Ablinger (I didn't like his style at first either... but there's something appealing about his conceptual purity. That and some obscure pieces like the installation for glass rods)

Eckert (He reminds me a bit of Bent Sørensen... maybe a hint of Sciarrino... sort of a dark approach to often quiet and sonority driven music)

Hespos (But damn do I wish he was better recorded)

Kalitzke (I have most of his stuff that's been recorded, barring a couple of rare comps. Very yes, plz)

Lang [Bernhard] (Seems rather pretentious at first. But dammit, those Differenz/Wiederholung pieces with loop generators and turntables accompanying huge orchestras... They work!)

Lang [Klaus] (lower case meditation ear candy, that is all)

Mahnkopf (If you ask me, this guy could be as good as Ferneyhough)

Oehring (Including the works with Iris Ter Schiphorst, a very unique set of available works. Tough to describe..)

Pintscher (Practically a traditionalist, by now, but essential good music)

Reimann (I think of him as a natural continuation of Berg - nothing hyper-experimental, just operas, lieder, etc of the highest quality)

Spahlinger (Lachenmann, yes. Perhaps without the Wagnerian scale, with a touch of new ideas [hello microtonal pianos and a piece just for tam tam])

Stäbler (Kind of a Kagel type... but his timbres are magnificent)

Ullmann (Interesting that you should compare him to Lachenmann... I guess it works, really, in technique...but in the end result, he's closer to Klaus Lang)

Widmann (Very colorful, lively, and virtuosic works. Good supply of recordings thanks to street cred as a concert clarinetist)

Zender (Unique perspective on transcriptions, wide supply of works available)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 31, 2016, 05:38:48 AM
Anyhow, my favorites of those listed and not crossed out, if I had to pick a handful, say, 15...:

Ablinger (I didn't like his style at first either... but there's something appealing about his conceptual purity. That and some obscure pieces like the installation for glass rods)

Eckert (He reminds me a bit of Bent Sørensen... maybe a hint of Sciarrino... sort of a dark approach to often quiet and sonority driven music)

Hespos (But damn do I wish he was better recorded)

Kalitzke (I have most of his stuff that's been recorded, barring a couple of rare comps. Very yes, plz)

Lang [Bernhard] (Seems rather pretentious at first. But dammit, those Differenz/Wiederholung pieces with loop generators and turntables accompanying huge orchestras... They work!)

Lang [Klaus] (lower case meditation ear candy, that is all)

Mahnkopf (If you ask me, this guy could be as good as Ferneyhough)

Oehring (Including the works with Iris Ter Schiphorst, a very unique set of available works. Tough to describe..)

Pintscher (Practically a traditionalist, by now, but essential good music)

Reimann (I think of him as a natural continuation of Berg - nothing hyper-experimental, just operas, lieder, etc of the highest quality)

Spahlinger (Lachenmann, yes. Perhaps without the Wagnerian scale, with a touch of new ideas [hello microtonal pianos and a piece just for tam tam])

Stäbler (Kind of a Kagel type... but his timbres are magnificent)

Ullmann (Interesting that you should compare him to Lachenmann... I guess it works, really, in technique...but in the end result, he's closer to Klaus Lang)

Widmann (Very colorful, lively, and virtuosic works. Good supply of recordings thanks to street cred as a concert clarinetist)

Zender (Unique perspective on transcriptions, wide supply of works available)

oooo.... juicy!!!!! thanks... I'll investigate
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Scion7 on May 31, 2016, 10:56:21 AM
Will have to pass on all these people.
Too much music from the pre-Fifties-born folk.
I'm already stretched pretty thin over more than three centuries of musik.
I do have an Eckert piece laying around somewhere ......

 8)

Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Ken B on May 31, 2016, 11:29:28 AM
Scion 7
Quote
who will avenge Alexander Hosmer, Ann Ashdowne and John Ashdowne?

My mother's name was Latimer.

(This post will puzzle most of you.)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on May 31, 2016, 11:33:33 AM
Will have to pass on all these people.
Too much music from the pre-Fifties-born folk.
I'm already stretched pretty thin over more than three centuries of musik.
I do have an Eckert piece laying around somewhere ......

 8)

But but but...the 20th century is the best of them all! [Though it is reasonable to assume that the 21st may surpass it by 2070 or so]
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on May 31, 2016, 04:17:04 PM
Will have to pass on all these people.
Too much music from the pre-Fifties-born folk.
I'm already stretched pretty thin over more than three centuries of musik.
I do have an Eckert piece laying around somewhere ......

 8)

I hear ya, though... there's always so much dreary greyness to plow through to get to the nuggets... Materialism MUST BE Discriminatory!!!! "It's All Good" just isn't allowed to apply to these Higher Aims.

I've already sampled through a portion of this list and found MUUUCH I don't respond to. I call that a WIN!!!



Of course, there a few things that really pricked up the ear...
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: king ubu on May 31, 2016, 09:39:03 PM
Edu Haubensak - not that Germanic, but he might fit the bill (just bought my first CD of his, after bumping into him by chance in my favorite bookstore in town felt compelled to do so - picked the Musiques Suisses/Grammond Portrait one).

http://www.eduhaubensak.ch/
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2016, 06:53:26 AM
Musiques Suisses/Grammond Portrait.

http://www.eduhaubensak.ch/

There's another offending label!!!!

I too have found odd single CDs of nameless Composers,... and when I listened I was like WOOOOOW... I remember running into Gorecki's 3rd (Koch) at a used store, way before he became famous. I thought, "How did they miss this?"

However, that kind of discovery can lead to... gulp... CDCDCD...

I sometimes tire of discovering....


LOL!! :laugh:
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: king ubu on June 01, 2016, 07:03:35 AM
There's another offending label!!!!

...

I sometimes tire of discovering....


LOL!! :laugh:

Double yes!

Guess I'll take the plunge with some Frank Martin eventually, so far I have just half dozen Musiques Suisses discs (some not classical).
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 01, 2016, 08:06:45 AM
There's another offending label!!!!

I too have found odd single CDs of nameless Composers,... and when I listened I was like WOOOOOW... I remember running into Gorecki's 3rd (Koch) at a used store, way before he became famous. I thought, "How did they miss this?"

However, that kind of discovery can lead to... gulp... CDCDCD...

I sometimes tire of discovering....


LOL!! :laugh:

I bought a handful of the "Grammont Selection" double CDs a couple weeks ago. It hurt, yes.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2016, 08:19:52 AM
Ha! The Germanikze have taken over most of the Front Page!!


"mein Fruedeliebe!!"
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 01, 2016, 08:33:28 AM
Über, snyppps, Über!  8)
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: Ken B on June 01, 2016, 08:35:57 AM
Über, snyppps, Über!  8)

What drives snypppr?
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: king ubu on June 01, 2016, 08:37:21 AM
What drives snypppr?

His Uber-Ich, I vudd zink?
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 01, 2016, 08:44:42 AM
What drives snypppr?

The gig economy!
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 01, 2016, 10:41:35 AM
RE: Ablinger

Sorry to hammer this one a bit much, but I've had an increasingly positive experience with Ablinger with each listen. I just wanted to say that I listened to Quadraturen IIIc [almost an hour long, lots of synthesizers] last night and between that, the Regenstucke [Favorite = Installation For Glass Rods], the Augmented Studies [For example, the study for seven violins], the Voices And Piano, and so on, I'd challenge anyone to really pinpoint what Ablinger's style is in the first place before saying they definitely don't like it ;) Turns out this guy is pretty diverse and very well may have something for everyone.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 01, 2016, 06:07:51 PM
Perhaps a NEOS/KAIROS worship thread is in order, because I'd blow my load night and day over it. Hell, those two labels might make up something crazy like 30-40% of my listening in the last 6 months.

Purchased 7 CD's over the course of the last two weeks [some Germans here, as well as some Swiss...four of the five NEOS have arrived as of now, pending release of #5]:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41CwLreuk%2BL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513PIJD4bjL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41uAO6ZT2kL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519obqwXqTL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eFuGsn0dL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51yIhPYakCL.jpg)

Not Pictured: Mr. Haubenstock-Ramati's new KAIROS release which hasn't even hit amazon as a pre-order yet.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 02, 2016, 07:55:30 AM
Perhaps a NEOS/KAIROS worship thread is in order, because I'd blow my load night and day over it. Hell, those two labels might make up something crazy like 30-40% of my listening in the last 6 months.

Purchased 7 CD's over the course of the last two weeks [some Germans here, as well as some Swiss...four of the five NEOS have arrived as of now, pending release of #5]:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41CwLreuk%2BL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/513PIJD4bjL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41uAO6ZT2kL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519obqwXqTL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eFuGsn0dL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51yIhPYakCL.jpg)

Not Pictured: Mr. Haubenstock-Ramati's new KAIROS release which hasn't even hit amazon as a pre-order yet.

IT'S THAT EFFIN COVER ART- drives me banasasas it's so hawt
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles WRITING ON THE GMG BATHROOM WALL...
Post by: snyprrr on June 02, 2016, 07:57:30 AM


" I was pleasured visiting the 'Deutschland Uber Alles' Thread, call me any time"



 :laugh: :'(
 :laugh: :'(
 :laugh: :'(
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 02, 2016, 08:15:03 AM
snyppps, old thing, you worry us sometimes.
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 02, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
snyppps, old thing, you worry us sometimes.

Be Nice. Hillary 2016
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2016, 01:37:13 AM
Oh, I am not suggesting that there is not ample encouragement to escapism.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 03, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
Hey somehow I forgot Rolf Riehm. Probably read "Rihm" a little too quickly a second time around.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 03, 2016, 06:59:57 PM
Oh, I am not suggesting that there is not ample encouragement to escapism.

Javoll Herr Kommandant ;)

Hey somehow I forgot Rolf Riehm. Probably read "Rihm" a little too quickly a second time around.

Ja, unt Ulrich Gasser
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 03, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
snyprrr, my new favorite poster, I remembered that I HAD heard Thomas Bruttger. I had gotten this mp3 comp because I'm a fan of the other three dudes. Regardless, that double album looks like candy. I'll report back eventually.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DQl-%2B%2BNSL._SS280.jpg)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 03, 2016, 07:38:07 PM
snyprrr, my new favorite poster, I remembered that I HAD heard Thomas Bruttger. I had gotten this mp3 comp because I'm a fan of the other three dudes. Regardless, that double album looks like candy. I'll report back eventually.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DQl-%2B%2BNSL._SS280.jpg)

Himmelbieber!!

I just ordered that today! Und das Ruzicka Vol.1 Und das Rihm bla bla... und vat else??? oy!! I managed to talk myself out of a grosses Rihm expenditure... ist sehr dangerous, ja... das CPO disc was able to destroy mit eine Kompanion auf  Kompositors meine lust fur CDCDCD.

Plus, I got a flat tire...



(So, anyhow, I'm trying to step away from the brink here. I'm not even looking at anymore NEOS/KAIROS or any of that stuff, nope, not me, uh uh. The thing I like about the Germans sometimes is the sleekness (BAZ, Holler, Ruzicka), but, there is such a Plurality of Styles that, thankfully, there's plenty to not like.)


btw- Ablinger means to me: snippet of pre-record/ snippet of 'live' musican(s)... I understand your term "purity"... I'd like to be as infuriating a Composer as her makes me!!

btw- Nicolaus A. Huber: I have a BVAAST disc (SQ, sax?, perc., SQ2) and that CPO coming. I've heard a few of his things...  but, sometimes I wonder, is there much THERE there????? Is he a low-octane Kagel? what am I missing here? He seems preoccupied with potty humour of some kind... I like the disc I have, some of what I hear makes me shake my head like an old woman...???...

btw- got to the end of 'Morphonie'... wow, heard a little Roy Harris at the ending chorale, lol!... quite a jet black horror show that piece... very impressive...
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 07, 2016, 06:15:35 PM
Threads in waiting?

Holliger Hollow
Kommandant Kalitze's Kommandcenter
Lang Lagoon
Mahnkopf's Mancave
Pintscher Plaza
Reimann's Rendezvous
Widmann's Water Cooler
Zender's Zany Zoo

Etc :)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 08, 2016, 06:22:41 AM
Threads in waiting?

Holliger Hollow
Kommandant Kalitze's Kommandcenter
Lang Lagoon
Mahnkopf's Mancave
Pintscher Plaza- should be Pintscher's Loaf
Reimann's Rendezvous
Widmann's Water Cooler
Zender's Zany Zoo Zender's Bender

Etc :)

check out my Holliger thread already!


Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 15, 2016, 07:25:16 PM
Threads in waiting?


Etc :)

Flammer?
Hanspeter Kyburz?
Goebbels?
Furrer?
Steinke?
Reihm...mentioned

snyprrr, my new favorite poster, I remembered that I HAD heard Thomas Bruttger. I had gotten this mp3 comp because I'm a fan of the other three dudes. Regardless, that double album looks like candy. I'll report back eventually.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DQl-%2B%2BNSL._SS280.jpg)

Just got the CPO... the Staebler opens - and then the typewriter, excellent!!-


Yes, the final purchases arrived and i am now starting back with the Zimmermann Requiem..... really picked up some sweet stuff here lately...

I have to take the CDCDCD Pledge, and say,-

"Gosh, you know, I'm really just satisfied right now with everything in The Library, and I think we can adjourn Buying Season for the year- barring any unforeseen- but, yes, I AM SATISIFIED and relinquish my perceived need to PURCHASE ITEMS instead of utilizing the vast array of free technology at my disposal. This I say of my own free will and do here declare that I am free of all buying triggers, internal and external. May we all wipe our brows and say, 'Thank God.'"



Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on June 24, 2016, 08:42:30 AM
Somehow I missed Josef Anton Riedl. A grave mistake, surely.
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: Scion7 on June 24, 2016, 10:43:43 PM
snyppps, old thing, you worry us sometimes.

Yes - I think a little "enforced-sonic-treatement" may be in order for ol' snyppps

We'll restrain him - play this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd87l-kZl94) in the background constantly - and begin the treatment:

(http://s33.postimg.org/7mhyazmjj/treatment.jpg)
Title: Re: Deutschland Goober Alles
Post by: snyprrr on June 25, 2016, 12:31:49 PM
Yes - I think a little "enforced-sonic-treatement" may be in order for ol' snyppps

We'll restrain him - play this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd87l-kZl94) in the background constantly - and begin the treatment:

(http://s33.postimg.org/7mhyazmjj/treatment.jpg)

IS THAT ALL YOU'VE GOT?? :laugh:

That was ok for me... I'll raise you some Florence Foster Jenkins (FloFo)... that Gliere sounded pretty German though... lol, good stuff...
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on July 29, 2016, 08:34:49 PM
BREAKING NEWS:

Hans Zender + Freshly Rolled Blunt = Basically Sounds Like Mozart, But Better
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on July 31, 2016, 06:20:37 AM
BREAKING NEWS:

Hans Zender + Freshly Rolled Blunt = Basically Sounds Like Mozart, But Better

duuuude ;)

I'm in my "considering Feldman a German Composer" phase! (just loving those Zender/Feldman concertos right now!)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: nathanb on August 03, 2016, 11:52:46 AM
duuuude ;)

I'm in my "considering Feldman a German Composer" phase! (just loving those Zender/Feldman concertos right now!)

Why yes, it's an utterly magnificent set of concerti, but have you listened to Zender's own music? Or at least some of his "composed interpretations"?
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: snyprrr on August 03, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
Why yes, it's an utterly magnificent set of concerti, but have you listened to Zender's own music? Or at least some of his "composed interpretations"?

I've only heard about/seen the Schubert thingy... the Zender/Aritti disc was the only one I didn't get in time... has never been available as far as I know...  there's also that CPO disc, along with 'Zeitraume'(?)... he's a "flute" kind of guy??
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: ritter on September 07, 2016, 12:11:49 PM
Cross-posted from the "Purchases Today" thread:

Something I stumbled on by chance at an AmDE MP seller (it's long OOP), and that I didn't even know existed until now. It immediately sparked my curiosity, as I find Hans Zender a rather interesting composer, and the subject matter, "texts and motives from the life of Saint Simeon Stylites (Acta Sanctorum) and 'Ulysses' by James Joyce" (as described in UE's webpage), seems intriguing, to say the least.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/413nl87WbyL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51m4CRmhYRL.jpg)
Anyone know this opera?  :)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on June 26, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61gLsOMYTNL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)

Mathias Spahlinger,  128 erfüllte augenblicke – systematisch geordnet, variabel zu spielen für stimme, klarinette und violoncello (1976)

128 fulfilled moments - systematically ordered, variable play for voice, clarinet and violoncello

As the title suggests there's some quite complex discretion left to the performers, I think they can choose the order of the 128 augenblicke. It really works in the performance on this CD, I must have listened to it 10 times over the past three weeks -- I can't get enough of it.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: MusicTurner on June 26, 2020, 11:05:39 AM
Apparently it's not on you-tube (the piano concertante work is) ... but there is a bit of mp3 
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Mathias-Spahlinger-geb-1944-Inter-Mezzo-f-Klavier-Orchester/hnum/6778307

Peter Ablinger's series Voices and Piano is a bit in the same, monumental vein, albeit more systematically worked through, I suppose, and more 'melodically coherent'.

https://ablinger.mur.at/voices_and_piano.html
https://ablinger.mur.at/txt_RenateFuczik.html

some of them here, but the CD recording is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6EUA5-Jtac
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on June 27, 2020, 01:33:33 AM
Apparently it's not on you-tube (the piano concertante work is) ... but there is a bit of mp3 
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Mathias-Spahlinger-geb-1944-Inter-Mezzo-f-Klavier-Orchester/hnum/6778307

Peter Ablinger's series Voices and Piano is a bit in the same, monumental vein, albeit more systematically worked through, I suppose, and more 'melodically coherent'.

https://ablinger.mur.at/voices_and_piano.html
https://ablinger.mur.at/txt_RenateFuczik.html

some of them here, but the CD recording is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6EUA5-Jtac

The Ablinger seems to have a comedic quality  -- noone could say that about the Spahlinger! (Or maybe they could -- I have no idea what they're singing about in the Spahlinger!)

Here it is if you want to try it

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbKssA-IhERgbGv4HKDmcySfVj7kDcdw/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: MusicTurner on June 27, 2020, 10:43:23 PM
The Ablinger seems to have a comedic quality  -- noone could say that about the Spahlinger! (Or maybe they could -- I have no idea what they're singing about in the Spahlinger!)

Here it is if you want to try it

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbKssA-IhERgbGv4HKDmcySfVj7kDcdw/view?usp=sharing

Thank you. I listened to the whole piece yesterday. The fragmented, apparently non-sensical utterances (unless there are single syllables with some meaning) would perhaps make one think a bit of earlier, rather well-known works like Schwitters Ursonate, still much more verbal though; Ligeti's Aventures, or Blacher's Abstrakte Oper. But Spahlinger's piece is of course more sparse and pointilistic. I noticed a bit of mood changes around 9 minutes in, and at the end; the first with much longer notes and somehow reminding me of someone humming Brucknerian passages of grandeur; the second being a very short example of more lyrical mood, maybe reminding a bit of say Jolas' Quatuor II. I'd probably prefer a bit more going on in the piece, such as in Ligeti's Aventures/Nouvelles Aventures, but I don't regret hearing it, Spahlinger also being very modestly represented in my collection (and BTW only with a couple of works being definitely avant-garde; I don't know if he has made more 'moderate' pieces).
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on June 27, 2020, 11:15:56 PM
I quite like the Jolas (and indeed the Schwitters.) The event at about 9 minutes in the Spahlinger is very memorable for me. (The Jolas has a similar mood change.) Another piece by Spahlinger which caught my imagination is Farben Der Fruhe (for seven, yes seven, pianos!)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on September 23, 2020, 12:21:12 PM
Listening to some Enno Poppe I thought to myself that this music sounds like no one else I know. So I looked at his wiki page and it turns out that one of his teachers was Friedrich Goldmann. Fortunately Friedrich Goldmann has some CDs on Spotify, at first listen this one is  interesting, I mean, it has a personality.

(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a0051798910_5.jpg)
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on May 01, 2021, 11:07:32 AM

(https://img.discogs.com/9QVykk3O0AQnmR6wjxg_ta7tF9k=/fit-in/600x588/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4358238-1505228640-9989.jpeg.jpg).   (https://img.discogs.com/TKK0pLQrfU9505sQaJt8d3rL4Ek=/fit-in/500x455/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6108790-1411291696-3276.jpeg.jpg)

Very much enjoying these two recordings of music by Walter Zimmermann. I started to explore this composer after finding that he was a big influence on Christopher Fox, and indeed the common points seem clear - whose music interests me. There’s an article by Fox on Zimmermann here

https://core.ac.uk/reader/234136749



Somewhere behind all of this is the sort of process music James Tenney worked on, at least, that’s how it seems in my head.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on May 03, 2021, 12:28:14 AM
Christopher Fox on walter Zimmermann

Quote
Walter Zimmermann's 'Vom Nutzen des Lassens'

THE 1985 MusICA series began with what may well be its most substantial event, a concert
by Circle juxtaposing British premieres of recent work by two of Cologne's leading not-soyoung composers, Walter Zimmermann (b.1949) and Klarenz Barlow (b.1945). For the 1985
concerts MusICA's director, Adrian Jack, has discarded the 'portrait' format of previous
years, where a whole evening was given over to one composer's work; instead, this year's featured composers-Barlow, Zimmermann and Vic Hoyland-have works in a number of
concerts. This seems to me to be a mistake: in general, because MusICA's past successes in
promoting composers unfamiliar to London, such as Scelsi, Radulescu, Grisey, and Gerald
Barry, have been achieved through just this sort of concentrated exposure; in particular,
because the five Zimmermann pieces presented in the first two concerts of this series are
part of a single cycle, Vom Nutzen des Lassens, which should ideally be heard complete. As in Zimmermann's earlier cycle, Lokale Musik, there is a progressive development
through Vom Nutzen des Lassens. Where Lokale Musik gradually dissolves the Franconian folk
melodies on which it is initially based beyond the point at which they can still be recognised,
Vom Nutzen des Lassens seeks to approach ever closer a musical equivalent of the teaching of
the 13th-century mystic, Meister Eckhart. 'I tried to penetrate the thinking of Meister
Eckhart so that it would take over my thoughts on music', writes Zimmermann; and he
prefaces Garten des Vergessens (the third work in the cycle) with a text from Eckhart that
goes some way towards expressing his aims for Vom Nutzen des Lassens as a whole: 'The
more you are able to concentrate all of your powers into oneness and into the forgetting of
all things and their images, and the more you are able to distance yourself from creatures
and their images, the closer you will come to this work (Peace) and the more you will
become receptive to it'. (Barbara Thornton's translation.)
Compositionally, this involves Zimmermann in an attempt to make image-less music,
music whose sounds never quite coalesce with one another. A favourite device used to this
end is a kind of variable repetition, either with a phrase being repeated in an always
changing context (as in Garten des Vergessens, where the violin, cello, and piano all have
repeating material, yet their repeats never synchronize); or with the internal elements of a
repeated phrase undergoing slight modification at each repeat. The latter technique
predominates in In der Welt sein, Abgeschiedenheit, and Ldsung, the three pieces given in Circle's
programme (two further pieces from the cycle, Garten des Vergessens and Ephemer-a new
version of a piece originally included in Lokale Musik-were played in the Clementi Trio's
MusICA appearance on July 14).
In each of these three pieces, the use of repetition becomes more and more prevalent
towards the end of the piece, with the result that one's attention is drawn away from the
organization of the sounds and towards the sonority of the instruments themselves. In der
Welt sein has some splendid moments where the solo tenor saxophonist, Michael Riessler,
must make prodigious leaps across the whole range of the instrument, each repeat yielding
slightly different harmonics; Losung ends with a repeated unison for the viola, cello, and
double bass, the unison subtly coloured by each instrument taking it as a harmonic on a
different tuned string.
This is demanding music, both for performers and listeners, and the separate
programming of Garten des Vergessens meant that we were deprived of the contrast which its
quicker, more densely textured music could have provided to these, the three most austere
pieces in the cycle. Performances ranged in quality from the sublime-Yvar Mikhashoffin
Abgeschiedenheit-to the uneasy-the three string players in Losung.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on May 16, 2021, 11:33:06 PM
Very impressive pieces on this CD - e.g. Ursach und Worwitz and Shadows of Cold Mountain III 

(https://moderecords.com/app/uploads/2020/11/mode111_Zimmermann_cover.jpg)

https://moderecords.com/catalog/111zimmermann/
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: steve ridgway on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 AM
Nobody mentioned Herbert Eimert. Epitaph Für Aikichi Kuboyama (1962) is a fantastic and lengthy piece of tape manipulation.
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on May 17, 2021, 04:51:26 AM
Listening to some Enno Poppe I thought to myself that this music sounds like no one else I know. So I looked at his wiki page and it turns out that one of his teachers was Friedrich Goldmann. Fortunately Friedrich Goldmann has some CDs on Spotify, at first listen this one is  interesting, I mean, it has a personality.

(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a0051798910_5.jpg)

I like this duo for cello and violin

https://www.youtube.com/v/pTSZ5GU7PxI&ab_channel=444u4
Title: Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
Post by: Mandryka on June 16, 2021, 04:37:31 AM
It should also be taken into consideration that Western composers drew a lot of inspiration from Asian cultures: what you call "German values" are perhaps ultimately Japanese as well !   :D

Personally, I am thinking in particular of the case of Helmut Lachenmann who drew a lot of inspiration from Japanese tradition and philosophy ...
His closeness to pianist Yukiko Sugawara has certainly not been negligible in his work either.

But I think we can still find a lot of other examples like this ...


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/411aVeIezoL._AC_.jpg)


This comment prompted me to look for Yukiko Sugawara’s recordings, and one of them, the one in the picture, is by a composer who I hadn’t heard of before. Hans Thomalla was born in Germany but has lives in the States, after studying worn Ferneyhough - the lyricism of his bagatelles makes me think slightly of Walter Zimmermann. I like it very much.