The unimportant news thread

[AnotherSpin]

It cannot be ruled out that the demise of Prigozhin, Utkin, etc. was merely staged, and these nice gentlemen simply left the stage for a safe haven with an adequate provision.

[T. D.]

It cannot be ruled out that the demise of Prigozhin, Utkin, etc. was merely staged, and these nice gentlemen simply left the stage for a safe haven with an adequate provision.

This is currently plausible. There have been widespread accounts of P. employing dual aircraft, and the official announcements merely state that he was on the passenger list.

We will have to monitor official Kremlin/Russian media pronouncements. If the Kremlin declares P. dead, than any presumed "staging" would imply Russian state complicity, which is difficult to believe. On the other hand, the Kremlin will suffer serious loss of face if unable to prove his demise. For these reasons, given that Russia has thus far been somewhat communicative about the crash, I am inclined to doubt the "staging" theory.

There was mention of a second Wagner aircraft being recalled to Moscow. It'll be interesting to watch further developments there. Of course, that story angle might simply die on the vine.

[JBS]

It cannot be ruled out that the demise of Prigozhin, Utkin, etc. was merely staged, and these nice gentlemen simply left the stage for a safe haven with an adequate provision.

If this was a thriller/spy novel, then of course Prigozhin is in a secure location of his own choosing.

Since alas it is not, we must mourn him...for the practical reason that the more enemies Putin has the better for everyone else.

[LKB]

If this was a thriller/spy novel, then of course Prigozhin is in a secure location of his own choosing.

Since alas it is not, we must mourn him...for the practical reason that the more enemies Putin has the better for everyone else.

A " developing story ", as they say. But I expect Prigozhin is indeed gone, though I'll give the SOB some credit for living so long after his mutiny.

[AnotherSpin]

This is currently plausible. There have been widespread accounts of P. employing dual aircraft, and the official announcements merely state that he was on the passenger list.

We will have to monitor official Kremlin/Russian media pronouncements. If the Kremlin declares P. dead, than any presumed "staging" would imply Russian state complicity, which is difficult to believe. On the other hand, the Kremlin will suffer serious loss of face if unable to prove his demise. For these reasons, given that Russia has thus far been somewhat communicative about the crash, I am inclined to doubt the "staging" theory.

There was mention of a second Wagner aircraft being recalled to Moscow. It'll be interesting to watch further developments there. Of course, that story angle might simply die on the vine.

In a country where there are no independent media and nothing can be checked from outside, any staging is possible. Just look at how obviously visually different people portray Putin in bizarre bits on official (and there is no other) TV.

I don't feel like promoting conspiracy, and Prigozhin and Utkin don't inspire any sympathy. But everything in this country is distorted and twisted.

Putin is first and foremost a KGB-man, and that is the main thing in assessing the events there.

[Spotted Horses]

Putin could have created a diversion to allow Prigozhin to escape into some anonymous, permanent exile, but what benefit would that have over just killing him? Is there some personal loyalty (doubtful)? Is it a Butch Coolidge/Marselus Wallace situation, a Bernie Bernbaum/Tom Reagan situation?

[AnotherSpin]

Putin could have created a diversion to allow Prigozhin to escape into some anonymous, permanent exile, but what benefit would that have over just killing him? Is there some personal loyalty (doubtful)? Is it a Butch Coolidge/Marselus Wallace situation, a Bernie Bernbaum/Tom Reagan situation?

It's still not entirely clear why Prigozhin stopped two months ago. What were the terms of the deal? It is not even clear what Putin's role is in all of this.

[Spotted Horses]

It's still not entirely clear why Prigozhin stopped two months ago. What were the terms of the deal? It is not even clear what Putin's role is in all of this.

I saw reporting that said that Prigozhin's original plan was to capture senior Russian military leaders, including Sergei Shoigu, who were to travel to Rosov-on-Don. Moscow got wind of the plot and the ad hoc march on Moscow was a desperate, improvised plan B. He stopped because he thought Putin would take this as a rebellion against a corrupt military establishment that was sabotaging Putin's military campaign, put Putin seemed to take it as a rebellion against himself.

There's no reliable information about anything, so who knows.

I couldn't say if this development is good or bad. Fewer savages in the world, but Putin has fewer enemies.

[AnotherSpin]

I saw reporting that said that Prigozhin's original plan was to capture senior Russian military leaders, including Sergei Shoigu, who were to travel to Rosov-on-Don. Moscow got wind of the plot and the ad hoc march on Moscow was a desperate, improvised plan B. He stopped because he thought Putin would take this as a rebellion against a corrupt military establishment that was sabotaging Putin's military campaign, put Putin seemed to take it as a rebellion against himself.

There's no reliable information about anything, so who knows.

I couldn't say if this development is good or bad. Fewer savages in the world, but Putin has fewer enemies.

Prigozhin has been openly demanding the resignation of Shoigu and Gerasimov for months. He openly declared that he would execute them on Red Square, and even named some deadlines.

It should be borne in mind that Prigozhin's open conflict with Shoigu is a conflict between groups of influence in Moscow. There are different names of the most influential people, for example, the Kovalchuk brothers. Putin is not a sole autocrat, he moderates the interests of a few of the most influential groups. What we are witnessing now is a power struggle in the Kremlin. Putin's future is unclear; he may or may not be replaced at any moment. As it will be favourable to those who call the shots. And not only in Russia.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Sir John Eliot Gardiner pulls out of the Proms after alleged assault.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66604555

[DavidW]

Sir John Eliot Gardiner pulls out of the Proms after alleged assault.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66604555

That is absolutely wild, imagine losing your temper over something so trivial!

[Papy Oli]

Guess Sir John will take a Gardiner's leave...

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

That is absolutely wild, imagine losing your temper over something so trivial!

Possibly early stage of dementia?

(To some members: I am not predicting anything and fully agree that you are awfully intelligent about history and social science. So you don't need to argue and impress me.)

[Pohjolas Daughter]

There is a bit more news about it on the blog Slipped Disc including apparently he had had a change to some medication that he was taking, so that may have contributed to it.

https://slippedisc.com/2023/08/exclusive-sir-john-eliot-gardiner-quits-trojans-after-singer-incident/

A very sad event in any case.  Glad that the singer is o.k. and I hope that Sir John gets whatever help he needs.

[LKB]

That is absolutely wild, imagine losing your temper over something so trivial!

While JEG has undoubtedly performed a  great service to music through his academic and recording projects, for years he's also had the reputation of - at least intermittently - being an @$$hole in some of his dealings with fellow artists and supporting staff.

Now he's in his 80's, and I've seen a few family members cross that threshold into impulsive, childish behavior and selfishness ( not that they're wholly responsible, and of course it isn't an inevitable result of aging in any case).

However sincere Gardiner may be in his apology, it wouldn't shock me to encounter similar reports in the future.   

[T. D.]

While JEG has undoubtedly performed a  great service to music through his academic and recording projects, for years he's also had the reputation of - at least intermittently - being an @$$hole in some of his dealings with fellow artists and supporting staff.

Now he's in his 80's, and I've seen a few family members cross that threshold into impulsive, childish behavior and selfishness ( not that they're wholly responsible, and of course it isn't an inevitable result of aging in any case).

However sincere Gardiner may be in his apology, it wouldn't shock me to encounter similar reports in the future. 

Very much agreed (emphasis added). I strongly suspect a history of unpleasant behavior.

[Roasted Swan]

For what its worth - I know a lot of top HIP players who have played many times over the years for John Elliot Gardiner and the truth is that whatever his talents as a musician he is an extremely unpleasant man to work for.  Old-School martinet who is rude and demanding as a matter of course.  Performers like the work that he does (and of course the recording fees that it generates helps as well) but I suspect that a lot will think that this happens to be the first time this kind of news has broken rather than the first time it has happened.  I don't know if he's been physically violent in the past but certainly verbally so.

[Papy Oli]

For what its worth - I know a lot of top HIP players who have played many times over the years for John Elliot Gardiner and the truth is that whatever his talents as a musician he is an extremely unpleasant man to work for.  Old-School martinet who is rude and demanding as a matter of course.  Performers like the work that he does (and of course the recording fees that it generates helps as well) but I suspect that a lot will think that this happens to be the first time this kind of news has broken rather than the first time it has happened.  I don't know if he's been physically violent in the past but certainly verbally so.

From the Guardian article on the matter:

He has long had a reputation for being tempestuous and rude to performers, according to a 2015 Spectator article by the commentator Damian Thompson, who wrote that for all the conductor's undoubted talent, "one art eludes him: good manners".

"Not consistently," Thompson wrote. "'Jiggy', as he doesn't like to be known, is scrupulously respectful to his friend the Prince of Wales [now king]. But musicians tell a different story, of tantrums and haughty self-regard. Anecdotes about him circulated privately until Stephen Walsh, praising Gardiner's book in the Spectator, referred to his 'notorious rudeness to performers and colleagues'. Peter Phillips, director of the Tallis Scholars, quoted this in his column, adding that Jiggy 'recently lost his temper with a brass player in the London Symphony Orchestra' (which was putting it mildly, apparently)."

[Spotted Horses]

Very much agreed (emphasis added). I strongly suspect a history of unpleasant behavior.

You don't get to be an orchestra conductor by being easy-going and self-effacing.

[Karl Henning]

You don't get to be an orchestra conductor by being easy-going and self-effacing.

I want to gainsay that by pointing out that I know three orchestral conductors of a healthy, sociable character, but then, I know them and the world does not.

TD: Japan will begin releasing over a million tons of treated wastewater today from the compromised Fukushima nuclear plant into the Pacific Ocean. The plant was destroyed by the tsunami caused by the Tōhoku earthquake in March 2011, the country's strongest recorded seismic event, which claimed nearly 20,000 lives.

Although the plant withstood the magnitude 9.0 quake, the 100-foot waves destroyed its cooling systems, prompting a meltdown in its three active reactors. The enormous volume of water used to cool the reactors—roughly 170 tons per day—undergoes radioactive filtration and is then stored; over 1,000 tanks now crowd the site. Starting today, roughly 130,000 gallons of water will be piped into the sea daily for decades.

International regulators have approved the government's plan, claiming the water contains safe levels of radioactive elements. However, environmental groups, fishing lobbyists, as well as neighbor China have criticized the initiative.