I have liked all that I've heard (not that there's much!) by Claude Vivier, especially Lonely Child and Orion. Tomorrow afternoon I'm finally seeing Kopernikus, the first half of Rêves d'un Marco Polo, and can't wait since Lis and others have raved about it.
--Bruce
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/87/260787.jpg)
Well, what can I say? That copy for me still hasn't surfaced. But I'll join in as soon as it does! ;D The anticipation is killing me, though. ;)
Maciek
On Saturday I saw some of Vivier's Rêves d'un Marco Polo, and mostly enjoyed it. We watched the Marco Polo disc (the other one is Kopernikus) including Shiraz, for solo piano (stunningly played by Marc Couroux), Lonely Child (with Susan Narucki singing in radiant form), Zipangu, Wo bist du Licht! (with Kathryn Harries), and the amazing finale, Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (Do you believe in the immortality of the soul) (also with Narucki, who is just superb).
It is staged by Pierre Audi on a huge steel catwalk-type structure (for the Netherlands Opera), with the ASKO and Schoenberg Ensembles playing magnificently, conducted by Reinbert de Leeuw. Vivier's sound world is passionate, gutsy and often sad, particularly the finale, which was left unfinished and has Narucki just ending in mid-sentence. You can hear the occasional influences of so-called "spectral" composers in his writing, but Vivier is hard to categorize, which makes him so interesting.
Almost more compelling was the hour-long documentary on his life by Cherry Duyns, who uses interviews with people who knew him, some obviously rare footage of the composer, and footage from the rehearsals for the works on the DVD. Given that Vivier's music is not performed all that often, it is wonderful to have it done so well here, and filmed so beautifully.
--Bruce
Bringing this thread back to life: a Guardian article about Vivier today mentions an upcoming webcast of his music:
http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2258674,00.html
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21TAVKW2ZAL._AA130_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivier-Prologue-pour-Marco-Polo/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203686248&sr=1-3)
I have this disc somewhere, the only I have heard by Vivier. It's extremely impressive. I generally find modernism a bit difficult, but like Berio, I found Vivier's sound world very easy to accept, and with a fair bit of emotion involved.
Another composer whom I have heard so much of but have never heard a single note! So much to explore. So little time (and resources).
I know he is very original, but whose music is it closest to?
Quote from: Lethe on February 22, 2008, 04:18:54 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21TAVKW2ZAL._AA130_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivier-Prologue-pour-Marco-Polo/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203686248&sr=1-3)
I have this disc somewhere, the only I have heard by Vivier. It's extremely impressive. I generally find modernism a bit difficult, but like Berio, I found Vivier's sound world very easy to accept, and with a fair bit of emotion involved.
That's a phenomenal disc, and it's a great shame that it's out of print. It would definitely be my prime recommendation for anyone interested in the composer.
Most of the other discs I've seen have little distribution outside of Canada, unfortunately.
Quote from: springrite on February 22, 2008, 04:21:20 AM
Another composer whom I have heard so much of but have never heard a single note! So much to explore. So little time (and resources).
I know he is very original, but whose music is it closest to?
Nobody, really. There is some similarity to the spectralist school, and his use of diatonic material within a non-tonal context has some parallels to the later Ligeti, while the ecstatic, remote language might remind some of Scriabin or Stockhausen.
Quote from: edward on February 22, 2008, 04:24:31 AM
Nobody, really. There is some similarity to the spectralist school, and his use of diatonic material within a non-tonal context has some parallels to the later Ligeti, while the ecstatic, remote language might remind some of Scriabin or Stockhausen.
Edward, thanks for the info about the broadcast, and
Lethe, other than the DVD I think that de Leeuw recording is the only one I have, too. Well worth seeking out.
Like that description of his work above, too. Like some other composers, I find I can't listen to a huge amount of his work at one sitting--just too intense--but his best works definitely repay repeated hearings.
--Bruce
Revival of this thread makes me very happy! Thank you Edward! :-*
I would like to remind you of the post by bhodges:
« on: April 13, 2007, 01:43:33 PM
with the cover of the one and only video of Vivier's work available. It is fascinating to actually see the musicians emitting the sounds, the music, Vivier created; and a true creation they are because as has been said above: Vivier is not related to or close to any other composer. It's all Vivier!
I have another Vivier CD issued by KAIROS with three compositions:
Orion 1979 für Orchester
Siddharta 1976 für Orchester in acht Gruppen
Cinq chansons pour percussion 1980
I'll try to track down the source of the DC. ;)
So the DVD is available? I might be going to the States in early May for less than a week. If I do I'd be busy like a bee but, if I get a chance I may look for it.
That was easy: Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Claude-Vivier-Siddartha-chansons-percussion/dp/B000KJTGXI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-2
Good! I will see if I can get my (indirect) contact person there to order it for me so I can pick it up when I am there.
BTW, we are planning an Olympics theme concert in Washington DC (or University of Maryland), 100 days before the opening.
Hey! amazon has the other one too - if you have 80 bucks! That's what it will run to with shipping and handling for a USED disc:
http://www.amazon.com/Vivier-Lonely-Zipangu-James-Ottaway/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-3
Quote from: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 07:38:41 AM
Hey! amazon has the other one too - if you have 80 bucks! That's what it will run to with shipping and handling for a USED disc:
http://www.amazon.com/Vivier-Lonely-Zipangu-James-Ottaway/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-3
Very tempting but I don't want to dip into Kimi's formula and diaper budget!
The aforementioned Vivier webcast is available at http://www.psappha.com/webcast.asp now.
Thanks for posting this, edward! Their other concerts also look quite interesting! And believe it or not, I received a postcard announcement from Psappha awhile back--alas, I couldn't hop across the pond to the concert ;D but I enjoyed getting it.
--Bruce
And since I have nothing else to do at a quarter to nine in the morning, I am watching it and enjoy every note! My thanks also, edward! :-*
Of course I could play it later in the evening, but I simply can not wait many hours to hear this performance! - It's book-marked. -
Lis
I also haven't listened to anything by Vivier. I'm very curious. Interesting DVD, Bruce. I recently listened very quickly to a cd of Vivier but I didn't buy it. This cd, already mentioned in this thread:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F6PQ89HYL._AA240_.jpg)
Over a year later, Claude Vivier is at GMG again because I just read in the program listing of this year's Prom's that his Orion will be performed!
I spent a good part of this afternoon watching the astounding DVD of his Rêves d'un Marco Polo. I still can not explain Vivier, he can not be explained, he simply is. A weak attempt would be to explain in the same category as Richard Wagner. Wagner did something that has never been done before him, a Gesamtkunstwerk; Vivier wrote a new creation to be performed on stage, any stage. Subscribers to Gramophone can read an article about him in this month's issue. - page 47 -
We lost him, nothing more to listen to created by this genius.
Thanks for that nice post, Lis, and I like hearing that his work is still on the radar. Just imagine what he might have created if he had lived longer...
PS, that's a great Proms program!
Charles Dutoit, conductor
Martha Argerich, piano
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Vivier: Orion (UK premiere)
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.1 in D flat major
Musorgsky, orch. Ravel: Pictures at an Exhibition
--Bruce
Bruce, while I watched his Marco Poloagain yesterday I was wondering if there exists an issue of just the piano section shiraz. It's awesome and surely there is another pianist alive besides Marc Couroux capable of performing it. ???
There's a recording of Shiraz on the CBC's Montreal Postmoderne disc:
http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.dspItemDetails&buyItemsID=124
It's only $6 Canadian (what is that, $5.99 US these days) currently, and a real bargain IMO.
Thanks edward--just ordered it! :D The rest of the program looks interesting, too.
--Bruce
Ordered it too - but the postage is almost two bucks more than the price of the CD! Is the Canadian postal system hand-delivering it to me by one of the countries handsome Mounties?? ::)
Edward - Do you have the four CD set of his music from CBC that is part of their Anthology of Canadian Music series?
It is good to read about this very talented and seldom heard Canadian composer. Has anyone heard Orion? I was wondering if it was worth buying the Kairos cd to get it.
Quote from: UB on June 18, 2009, 08:35:06 AM
Edward - Do you have the four CD set of his music from CBC that is part of their Anthology of Canadian Music series?
It is good to read about this very talented and seldom heard Canadian composer. Has anyone heard Orion? I was wondering if it was worth buying the Kairos cd to get it.
Am I going to have to drag out my credit card
again? ;D ;D ;D
Haven't heard
Orion, to the best of my knowledge.
--Bruce
Bruce: Four CD set? I have a KAIROS, 0012472KAI with
Orion
Siddharta
Cinq chanson pour percussion
All on one CD. Saved you some money, didn't I? 0:)
Quote from: Brünnhilde ewig on June 18, 2009, 09:28:29 AM
Bruce: Four CD set? I have a KAIROS, 0012472KAI with
Orion
Siddharta
Cinq chanson pour percussion
All on one CD. Saved you some money, didn't I? 0:)
Oh thanks, Lis. Yes, I will probably order the Kairos first. (Other than that DVD, I seem to have only one Vivier disc: the one with
Lonely Child and
Zipangu, conducted by De Leeuw.)
--Bruce
I have no Vivier in my collection. Last year I ordered one and after 3 months, I got an e-mail telling me the order is cancelled because it was out of stock. I hate it when that happens.
Outside of Canada, would Claude Vivier be viewed as the greatest Canadian composer?
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 18, 2009, 09:59:03 AM
Outside of Canada, would Claude Vivier be viewed as the greatest Canadian composer?
An interesting premise, and you could be right. IMHO it's hard to say because he died so young and wasn't able to create a huge body of work.
Who would you choose? (Or nominate.)
--Bruce
I definitely would call him a French composer. He left Canada, where he had composed very little, because then he was not celebrated as Canada's greatest composer. In fact he was barely recognised, whereas his reception in France was enthusiastic and his genius was recognised.
Lis - the 4 CD set has 15 works and a documentary but it does not have Orion. Can you compare Orion with any other of his works - for instance does it have about the same soundworld as Siddharta?
He's Canadian?
I knew so little about Canadian composers, if I HAD TO name one, I can only come up with one name: Glenn Gould.
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned this month's article in Gramophone about Vivier. One sentence: "He complained that Canada was a compositional backwater and relocated to Paris to work on an opera inspired by the life of Tschaikovsky.
Vivier's "Lonely Child" is here - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2735391902424403560
A friend just sent me the link today. Does anyone have any idea what the text is about? I can't find anything on the Internet...
All I can do is to quote the short paragraph in the booklet from the DVD:
"The Youth of Marco Polo"
A song of loneliness, melody coloured by carefully constructed timbral chords. The music finally returns to a chord, then an interval, until all that remains is the opening melody.
So far about the music, but the meaning is not quite clear. Even if he connects the loneliness to Marco Polo, maybe it has something to do with Vivier's loneliness, he never knew his birth parents.
Vivier at the Proms - Prom 60
In the International Year of Astronomy, Claude Vivier's intriguing exploration of the echoing vastnesses of outer space is brought to the UK by Charles Dutoit, who conducted its 1980 premiere in Montreal.
Vivier Orion (UK premiere) (13 mins)
I've just borrowed the CD with Prologue pour un Marco Polo, Bouchara, Zipangu and Lonely child- it's fairly unusual and keeps the attention but shows Stockhausen's influence and the pieces are basically classically organized with clear sense of departure and return, like some electronic music.
Quote from: Sean on June 28, 2009, 12:37:19 AM
. . . it's fairly unusual and keeps the attention but shows Stockhausen's influence . . . .
I am trying to understand the use of the conjunction
but here . . . .
Don't worry, I was just trying to say that the influence of his German sojourn is a too bit obvious. He managed to find a voice though, which is more than some.
There is definitely something in common between the soundworld of late Vivier and the Licht-era Stockhausen, but I'd venture to suggest that the works of Vivier's last five or so years sound nothing like any other composer. (By contrast, I find a lot of his earlier work rather dated and anonymous.)
In this boxset 'Dutch Miracle' is the first Vivier I've heard, a,...scene?,...I don't know, but it's 9mins. of what sounds like,...mmm,....,uh,
It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?), from 1983, the year of the composer's murder. There are singers, and a speaker, and an ensemble. I haven't heard Die Soldaten, but this is partly what I imagine it sounds like. The end result is like taperecording the party of someone who will commit suicide later that evening. There is ranting :o!!
I thought Vivier was going to be a whole lot more,...mmm,...musical? This is dreary dreary, southside gutter music. Perhaps this is what a love-letter to a male prostitute sounds like? Creepy! ;D
You can see a performance of this unfinished work here (http://www.psappha.com/watch-and-listen/claude-vivier-%281948-83%29---glaubst-du-an-die-unsterblichkeit-der-seele.aspx)
It is interesting that he was writing a work about the immortality of the soul when he was killed.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 03, 2010, 04:06:58 PM
It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?),
"Do You Believe in the Immortality of the Soul?"
If you are interested in listening to almost all of Vivier's music you should go to CMC (http://www.musiccentre.ca/home.cfm) and listen to the archived recordings. I suggest 'Lonely Child' and 'Wo bist du licht' for his late works.
So much music - so little time.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 03, 2010, 04:06:58 PM
In this boxset 'Dutch Miracle' is the first Vivier I've heard, a,...scene?,...I don't know, but it's 9mins. of what sounds like,...mmm,....,uh,
It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?), from 1983, the year of the composer's murder. There are singers, and a speaker, and an ensemble. I haven't heard Die Soldaten, but this is partly what I imagine it sounds like. The end result is like taperecording the party of someone who will commit suicide later that evening. There is ranting :o!!
I thought Vivier was going to be a whole lot more,...mmm,...musical? This is dreary dreary, southside gutter music. Perhaps this is what a love-letter to a male prostitute sounds like? Creepy! ;D
LOL :laugh:
He's like a Messiaen or a Stockhausen but with all the extra notes removed. There is a purity in his music that is rare among anything coming from the avant-garde.
I knew this was on but missed it, I regret it very much
https://www.youtube.com/v/oGfVnzrpXLQ
QuoteHiérophanie (from the Greek meaning manifestation of the sacred, and inspired by Vivier's reading of the philosopher Mircea Eliade) was written when the composer was 22, but was only premiered forty years later, in 2010. It is a rite of passage, a means of communication and meditation, of contact with the primordial and primitive. Here an utterance, movements, random elements, club music, and improvisations, with many a recollection from childhood, and the Salve Regina and a Delphic hymn from ancient Greece all expound a spiritual and religious awakening.
The stage director Silvia Costa (well known to audiences of the Festival d'Automne à Paris) has devised the spatial staging of Hiérophanie.
The same programme note says this, which may or may not be a good sign, I'm saying nothing . . . yet
QuoteGérard Grisey, who knew Claude Vivier very well, particularly in the 1970s, shared his penchant for mysticism, for the "Shamanic power" of music, and the "magic of sound", such magic being the only means of expression capable of conjuring up "a voice lost", able to venture into "the mysterious strata of a being".
Coming up live at 11:45am (EDT), Barbara Hannigan conducts the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra in two works by Vivier, with some Busoni and Haydn, too. (I think the concert will be archived.)
Busoni Berceuse élégiaque
Vivier Wo Bist Du Licht?
Haydn Symphony No 26 "Lamentatione"
Vivier Lonely Child
Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra
Barbara Hannigan conductor
Tuuri Dede mezzosopran
Aphrodite Patoulidou soprano
https://www.gso.se/en/gsoplay/video/hannigans-surprise/
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on April 13, 2007, 12:43:33 PM
I have liked all that I've heard (not that there's much!) by Claude Vivier, especially Lonely Child and Orion. Tomorrow afternoon I'm finally seeing Kopernikus, the first half of Rêves d'un Marco Polo, and can't wait since Lis and others have raved about it.
--Bruce
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/87/260787.jpg)
Quote from: Brewski on April 16, 2007, 02:03:39 PM
On Saturday I saw some of Vivier's Rêves d'un Marco Polo, and mostly enjoyed it. We watched the Marco Polo disc (the other one is Kopernikus) including Shiraz, for solo piano (stunningly played by Marc Couroux), Lonely Child (with Susan Narucki singing in radiant form), Zipangu, Wo bist du Licht! (with Kathryn Harries), and the amazing finale, Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (Do you believe in the immortality of the soul) (also with Narucki, who is just superb).
It is staged by Pierre Audi on a huge steel catwalk-type structure (for the Netherlands Opera), with the ASKO and Schoenberg Ensembles playing magnificently, conducted by Reinbert de Leeuw. Vivier's sound world is passionate, gutsy and often sad, particularly the finale, which was left unfinished and has Narucki just ending in mid-sentence. You can hear the occasional influences of so-called "spectral" composers in his writing, but Vivier is hard to categorize, which makes him so interesting.
Almost more compelling was the hour-long documentary on his life by Cherry Duyns, who uses interviews with people who knew him, some obviously rare footage of the composer, and footage from the rehearsals for the works on the DVD. Given that Vivier's music is not performed all that often, it is wonderful to have it done so well here, and filmed so beautifully.
--Bruce
Well 15 years after you I'm finally hearing it on this, to me it sounds camp! But then it's opera so, that's OK. I recommend this CD, it's fresh, the music is original and fun.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5MTg1MC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2Mjc1NzAzNDN9)
Quote from: Mandryka on March 26, 2022, 10:58:33 AM
Well 15 years after you I'm finally hearing it on this, to me it sounds camp! But then it's opera so, that's OK. I recommend this CD, it's fresh, the music is original and fun.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5MTg1MC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2Mjc1NzAzNDN9)
15 years! Since I don't recall that many details (other than Audi's busy staging, and Narucki's expert vocalising), "camp" may be exactly the right description. I'll have to keep this recording in mind, so thanks for the alert.
--Bruce