GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 06:04:26 AM

Title: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 06:04:26 AM
Elgar at 150 (http://earrelevant.blogspot.com/2007/06/elgar-at-150.html)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 27, 2007, 06:18:02 AM
Zero comments.

I guess nobody gives a hoot.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 06:31:30 AM
I feel your pain.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 27, 2007, 07:10:06 AM
Does this thread have a point?  ???
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 27, 2007, 07:14:07 AM
Does this thread have a point?  ???

Much like your posts, the answer is emphatically no.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 27, 2007, 07:18:53 AM
Much like your posts, the answer is emphatically no.

So, you think karlhenning has become another me?
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Montpellier on June 27, 2007, 08:05:24 AM
I feel your pain.

Don't mention pain or is it payne, the guy who against Elgar's own wishes tampered with the sketches of the 3rd Symphony.   Intolerable that, and he went on to make up a piano concerto that doesn't even sound like Elgar!
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 27, 2007, 08:34:03 AM
Don't mention pain or is it payne, the guy who against Elgar's own wishes tampered with the sketches of the 3rd Symphony.   Intolerable that, and he went on to make up a piano concerto that doesn't even sound like Elgar!

You don't need to listen to those works if find them "intolerable". I enjoy Payne's elaboration of the third symphony, against Elgar's own wishes or not. The Piano Concerto (Not by Anthony Payne but Robert Walker!) sounds pretty Elgarian to me (noticed that it's 30's Elgar).
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 08:39:47 AM
So, you think karlhenning has become another me?

What a peculiar notion.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Bonehelm on June 27, 2007, 09:34:14 AM
People don't need to be so disgusted by any thread/post about Elgar...I mean, he's an accomplished composer and he does have memorable works..if you don't like him you don't need to derail the thread about him..you can just ignore it. Don't ruin it for the others who are a fan of Elgar.

However, I do understand how discussion about Elgar is related to pointlessness sometimes... 8)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 09:51:41 AM
However, I do understand how discussion about Elgar is related to pointlessness sometimes... 8)

I worry that 71 dB thinks the thread is pointless . . . .
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Boris_G on June 27, 2007, 11:10:13 AM
Well I say 'hurrah' for Edu. Here's a list of works I feel all the better for knowing:

Introduction and Allegro for Strings
Serenade for Strings
Nursery Suite
Symphony No. 1
Symphony No. 2
Cello Concerto
Sospiri (Barbirolli's recording especially wonderful)
Dream Children
'Intermezzo' (touching, restrained piece for violin solo and orchestra, composed to be part of Crown of India Suite, which is probably why it's a much deeper work than the movements in which it is embedded).

Many other pieces I enjoy listening to from time to time. Elgar's an undying favourite for me.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: lukeottevanger on June 27, 2007, 11:15:54 AM
Happy 150th to this most controversial of composers.

 ???
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 11:21:49 AM
I wonder if we can expect any more world premieres, past the curio, The Smoking Cantata (the one short number of it).
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: bwv 1080 on June 27, 2007, 11:26:43 AM
But did Elgar really write the music that was attributed to him, or was it someone else....
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 11:34:09 AM
Man, I didn't even want to go there . . . .
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 11:38:16 AM
Well I say 'hurrah' for Edu. Here's a list of works I feel all the better for knowing:

Introduction and Allegro for Strings
Serenade for Strings
Nursery Suite
Symphony No. 1
Symphony No. 2
Cello Concerto
Sospiri (Barbirolli's recording especially wonderful)
Dream Children
'Intermezzo' (touching, restrained piece for violin solo and orchestra, composed to be part of Crown of India Suite, which is probably why it's a much deeper work than the movements in which it is embedded).

Many other pieces I enjoy listening to from time to time. Elgar's an undying favourite for me.

What, no Falstaff?

And, Boris, you forgot to factor in a sense of humor (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,72.msg46803.html#msg46803). Easy, fella!
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: bwv 1080 on June 27, 2007, 11:41:54 AM
The UK Elgar Appreciation Society has just released this message:

http://www.crustydemons.co.uk/UK/tattoo_parlour/viewer.php?clip=w4&id=6&msg=Happy%20B%2DDay%20Elgar>www.crustydemons.co.uk (http://www.crustydemons.co.uk/UK/tattoo_parlour/viewer.php?clip=w4&id=6&msg=Happy%20B%2DDay%20Elgar>www.crustydemons.co.uk)

Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Boris_G on June 27, 2007, 11:43:38 AM
What, no Falstaff?

And, Boris, you forgot to factor in a sense of humor (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,72.msg46803.html#msg46803). Easy, fella!

Hi Karl, sorry if I suffered a sense of humour drop-out, but I get riled by lazily Anglophobe statements. Too often they're a cheap way of making whoever's making them feel superior when it just makes them appear (or even perhaps shows them) to be an ignorant schmuck IMHO.

And yes, I do enjoy listening to Falstaff from time to time: btw it includes some extraordinary moments which, I think, John Williams clearly lifted for some of his more 'exotic' moments in (for instance) the Indiana Jones movies. I enjoy the work, but it doesn't quite make the list of my all-time favs.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 11:48:21 AM
Understood.  In context, though, that post was more Finnophobe, I think  8)

I'm also shocked that your list does not include the Violin Sonata!  That piece alone would qualify Elgar for greatness.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2007, 11:50:19 AM
And yes, I do enjoy listening to Falstaff from time to time: btw it includes some extraordinary moments which, I think, John Williams clearly lifted for some of his more 'exotic' moments in (for instance) the Indiana Jones movies. I enjoy the work, but it doesn't quite make the list of my all-time favs.

I was discussing with a Berklee student the other day, what a tasteful burglar Williams is :-)

Not to flog a failing filly, but what is it that keeps Falstaff from your Top X list?
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Boris_G on June 27, 2007, 12:28:27 PM
I was discussing with a Berklee student the other day, what a tasteful burglar Williams is :-)

Not to flog a failing filly, but what is it that keeps Falstaff from your Top X list?

It's not a 'political' decision, in that it's not meant to reflect on its worth. The works I've included in my 'fav' Elgar list are ones I've not only lived with but which I return to for - for want of a better word - nourishment: more than that, they 'speak' to me, and in a comforting way. Falstaff is undoubtedly a great work, but perhaps because it's ultimately bleak and pessimistic I find I have to be 'in the mood' to listen to it more than the ones I've specified in my 'fav' list. No better reason than that. I could say more about the other works if you want (why they're on the list and what they mean to me) but I suspect you'll have my drift already.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 27, 2007, 12:51:57 PM
But did Elgar really write the music that was attributed to him, or was it someone else....

The other way around, Elgar wrote music using pseudonymes like "Gustav Franke".  ;)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Brewski on June 27, 2007, 12:57:05 PM
All this commentary has made me want to hear Falstaff, and coincidentally, I just received a version with Sir Colin Davis and the Concertgebouw from June 20, 1970, which I'll listen to later.  (It's in the orchestra's latest box set of live recordings.)

I don't think I've ever heard this piece, and I do like Elgar.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 27, 2007, 12:57:24 PM
...what is it that keeps Falstaff from your Top X list?

Too small X!  ;)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Montpellier on June 28, 2007, 05:33:42 AM
You don't need to listen to those works if find them "intolerable". I enjoy Payne's elaboration of the third symphony, against Elgar's own wishes or not. The Piano Concerto (Not by Anthony Payne but Robert Walker!) sounds pretty Elgarian to me (noticed that it's 30's Elgar).
Quite right. 

I'd like to get more musically engaged in Elgar - his 2nd Symphony featured strong in my studies of orchestra - he was an absolute master of full orchestral tutti inter alia - but I never quite caught on with the 1st.  It could be because I stuck with one of the Boult recordings so if anyone can recommend something that might get closer to the heart of it I'd be grateful and thanks.  I'm familiar with a few of his works, obviously the Enigma Variations, Concertos - more recently Starlight Express.  

Otherwise, I'll take others' advice and steer clear of this thread!   Fans only, not enquirers! 
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 28, 2007, 05:44:23 AM
Otherwise, I'll take others' advice and steer clear of this thread!   Fans only, not enquirers! 

No, no!  This is the thread for enquirers!  The other thread is strictly fanzine!  ;)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 28, 2007, 05:58:46 AM
Quite right. 

I'd like to get more musically engaged in Elgar - his 2nd Symphony featured strong in my studies of orchestra - he was an absolute master of full orchestral tutti inter alia - but I never quite caught on with the 1st.  It could be because I stuck with one of the Boult recordings so if anyone can recommend something that might get closer to the heart of it I'd be grateful and thanks.  I'm familiar with a few of his works, obviously the Enigma Variations, Concertos - more recently Starlight Express.  

My recommendation of Elgar's symphonies is Naxos (1st Hurst, 2nd Downes & 3rd Daniel). Those performances reveal well the complex structures of the music, at least compared to Slatkin on RCA.

And yes, Elgar did wonders with full orchestra. He created sonic world with depth, contrasts and life. 
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 28, 2007, 06:03:43 AM
My recommendation of Elgar's symphonies is Naxos (1st Hurst, 2nd Downes & 3rd Daniel).

Three different conductors?  Interesting that Naxos divvied them up like that.  What orchestra(s)?
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: 71 dB on June 28, 2007, 06:09:44 AM
Three different conductors?  Interesting that Naxos divvied them up like that.  What orchestra(s)?

Yes, three conductors.  ;)

1 & 2 are played by BBC Philharmonic (1992, 1993). The third is by Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (1999)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2007, 06:19:26 AM
Understood.  In context, though, that post was more Finnophobe, I think  8)

I'm also shocked that your list does not include the Violin Sonata!  That piece alone would qualify Elgar for greatness.

Yes indeed. The Elgar anniversary explains why they've programmed the Sonata during this season's chamber muisc series in Ludwigshafen. We'd never hear it otherwise. A pity. And a pity too our orchestra (the one with the long, unwieldy name I refuse to type here) hasn't programmed any Elgar at all.

Sarge
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on June 28, 2007, 06:23:19 AM
Yes indeed. The Elgar anniversary explains why they've programmed the Sonata during this season's chamber muisc series in Ludwigshafen.

Splendid! You're going, Sarge?
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2007, 06:31:55 AM
Don't mention pain or is it payne, the guy who against Elgar's own wishes tampered with the sketches of the 3rd Symphony.   Intolerable that...

You know, the only way an artist, any artist, can avoid having unfinished works, juvenilia, etc--anything deemed unworthy or not ready for publication--is to destroy the works himself. Sibelius did that. Otherwise, the public will eventually see them. It's a given. Nothing stays hidden forever and I think every artist knows that.

Personally I'm glad we have Payne's Elgar (and Cooke's Mahler). And I very much enjoy T.S. Eliot's Inventions of the March Hare. I'd give anything to hear that Sibelius 8th.

Sarge
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2007, 06:37:48 AM
Splendid! You're going, Sarge?

Oh, yes. The musicians are unknown to me (they look quite young) but the program is great. Wouldn't miss it:

Beethoven Violin Sonata #1
Elgar Violin Sonata
Prokofiev Violin Sonata #2
Tchaikovsky Waltz and Scherzo Op.34

Sarge
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Hector on June 29, 2007, 03:10:18 AM
Hi Karl, sorry if I suffered a sense of humour drop-out, but I get riled by lazily Anglophobe statements. Too often they're a cheap way of making whoever's making them feel superior when it just makes them appear (or even perhaps shows them) to be an ignorant schmuck IMHO.

And yes, I do enjoy listening to Falstaff from time to time: btw it includes some extraordinary moments which, I think, John Williams clearly lifted for some of his more 'exotic' moments in (for instance) the Indiana Jones movies. I enjoy the work, but it doesn't quite make the list of my all-time favs.

Quite right.

Remember, Boris, we are not foreign, we are English ;D
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: M forever on June 29, 2007, 06:07:18 PM
Much like your posts, the answer is emphatically no.

I see PW has been upholding my legacy while I was gone.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 06, 2007, 03:18:56 AM
b) this thread is not open only to Elgar admirers.

Oh, but it might be.

That's why I opened this one up, as a precaution  0:)
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Larry Rinkel on July 06, 2007, 04:40:33 AM
People don't need to be so disgusted by any thread/post about Elgar...I mean, he's an accomplished composer and he does have memorable works..if you don't like him you don't need to derail the thread about him..you can just ignore it. Don't ruin it for the others who are a fan of Elgar.

And this is the same guy who once wrote:
Quote
I'll say it one last time: I AM NOT INTERESTED IN EDWARD ELGAR.

 :D
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Larry Rinkel on July 06, 2007, 04:42:09 AM
Hi Karl, sorry if I suffered a sense of humour drop-out, but I get riled by lazily Anglophobe statements. Too often they're a cheap way of making whoever's making them feel superior when it just makes them appear (or even perhaps shows them) to be an ignorant schmuck IMHO.

Or perhaps you just don't have a sense of humor. Spelling the word with only one "u" makes all the difference.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 06, 2007, 06:36:11 AM
Just received the schedule for this season's Pro Arte concerts in Mannheim. The BBC SO will be here in May, playing Enigma and Pomp and Circumstance Marches. Not the most adventurous programming but at least we'll hear some orchestral Elgar this year.

Sarge
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 06, 2007, 07:41:47 AM
Who conducting, Sarge? Elder?
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 06, 2007, 07:52:40 AM
Who conducting, Sarge? Elder?

No, Jiri Belohlavek...so we'll be getting a Czech flavored Enigma  ;D

First half the program will be Beethoven's First Piano Concerto with Piotr Anderszewski.

Sarge

Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 06, 2007, 07:54:26 AM
No, Jiri Belohlavek...so we'll be getting a Czech flavored Enigma  ;D

First half the program will be Beethoven's First Piano Concerto with Piotr Anderszewski.

Well, Sarge, I hope he plays it with more focus for you, than he did when we heard him play this in Boston.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on July 06, 2007, 08:00:20 AM
Beethoven 1st PC and Elgar's Enigma? Sounds like a snoozer...
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 06, 2007, 08:04:33 AM
Beethoven 1st PC and Elgar's Enigma? Sounds like a snoozer...

Like I said, not the most imaginative programming (that's a continual plague in the Pro Arte series: it's designed for the most conservative and rich audiences, audiences that refuse to pay for and come to anything adventurous). The Enigma is an old friend, though, one I've never heard live. I'm looking forward to it actually.

Sarge
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 06, 2007, 08:10:28 AM
Yes, I'd gladly take in a Variations on an Original Theme, Opus 36, in live performance, any day.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 07:35:37 AM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,72.msg57428.html#msg57428

Just what we were talking about here!

Yes, I'd gladly take in a Variations on an Original Theme, Opus 36, in live performance, any day.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 07:39:20 AM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,72.msg57428.html#msg57428

Just what we were talking about here!


You've drawn our attention to this with such pomp and circumstance ........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 07:44:43 AM
You've drawn our attention to this with such pomp and circumstance ........

And not with any bogus pomp, either:

http://www.boguspomp.com/aboutBP.html
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 07:48:52 AM
And not with any bogus pomp, either:

http://www.boguspomp.com/aboutBP.html

There's nothing enigmatic about bogus pomp .........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 07:49:35 AM
There's nothing enigmatic about bogus pomp .........

RDNZL, on the other hand . . . .
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 08:06:53 AM
You've drawn our attention to this with such pomp and circumstance ........

And this is the thread for people who enjoy those modest eddies of the Elgar catalogue without puffing them up as if they were (** WARNING :: FLAWED ARTS ANALOGY APPROACHING **) Fabergé eggs.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 08:10:12 AM
How very kitsch to use that at a graduation ceremony  :o

It would work, though, if you had captive slaves and caskets of ivory in advance of the valedictorian.
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 08:19:22 AM
When it comes to Elgar, I'm a sanguine fan ........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 08:20:46 AM
:-)

I have got to crack open those Elgar symphonies one of these days . . . .
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 08:24:12 AM
In my mind, Elgar embodies -- no, epitomizes -- the land of Hope and Glory ........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 08:25:20 AM
........ as I reminisce about my Wand of Youth .........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 08:35:59 AM
Separately . . . things about Elgar you never suspected:

. . . sandpapering your private parts will be less frustrating and perhaps even more pleasureable . . . .
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: BachQ on July 17, 2007, 08:43:16 AM
Separately . . .

Is it really separate? .......... or is it, in fact, part of some larger Elgarian matrix? ..........
Title: Re: Elgar Sesquicentenary
Post by: karlhenning on July 17, 2007, 09:01:49 AM
La vita Elgar