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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: snyprrr on October 21, 2010, 07:14:59 PM

Title: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on October 21, 2010, 07:14:59 PM
A group of Composers is coming more into focus, alongside the very well known Italians, as one of the cornerstones of High Modernism. Together as "la Generacion del '51", Cristobal Halffter, Luis De Pablo, Tomas Marco, and Francisco Guerrero (d.) have emerged as a block of unique creativity, the three former Composers representing some of the last living exponents of the 20th Century's zenith.

Halffter stands (sits?) as the doyen of Spanish Music, and has a story similar to other oppressed Composers of the day. I'm no expert on Creativity under the Franco regime, but Paul Naschy is a hoot, haha! ::) Seriously, Halffter's music is laden with pieces for dead poets and such, though, as one begins to notice with CH, things aren't quite as they seem.

On the strength of hearing his SQ No.3, I declared Halffter one of the Greastest Modern Experimental Composers. Much of Ligeti, Xenakis, the Italians, and the such like (Ruzicka), are present here in Halffter, and, thankfully, in a very personal style. The SQ No.3 is pure blazing placidity, Total Complexity in the style of Ligeti, Xenakis, and Ferneyhough.

I now have 3 cds of chamber music, the new SQ/Arditti disc, and the Cello Concerto No.2 with Slava/Erato. His music in the late '60s and early '70s has a feral, uncompromising outlook. This is some austere stuff in the vein of 1960's Xenakis. By the late '70s, after Franco's death, Halffter became disillusioned with his hopefulness for a New Spanish Era, and his music has been evolving since this crisis. The mid '80s Cello Concerto No.2 has a lot of the same stuff that Concertos from Penderecki and Schnittke have from the same era, a generally brooding atmosphere that was apparently quite prevalent during the time (1985?, 1985?, hmmm?). It is quite beautiful.

A Piano Trio, Cancion Callada (for Mompou), is like if Xenakis had written an actually lovely lullaby, whilst the sax quartet Fractal is one of the best, and most vicious and violent, representatives for that combination. Halffter has range.

He has written Operas on Classic Spanish Themes such as Don Quixote, and has had a late flowering of Piano Music. All of a sudden Halffter has shot up into my Inner Circle. I suggest you look into Cristobal Halffter.



Luis De Pablo and Tomas Marco were both introduced on the same Arditti disc with the Halffter. De Pablo is talked about (he has a pretty famous cd on Harmonia Mundi, Tarde de Poetas), but I wonder if anyone hear can say two sentences about him. I have a Stradivarius disc with two chamber orchestra pieces and a Piano Quintet (Metaforas), also written for the Ardittis. He exhibits the same traits many Great Modern Composers do: imagination and mystery, command of technique, and things to say. I'd say he's happy sounding, like Donatoni: joyful in making music. I see a few things in his discography that would completment what I have. I'm hoping someone has a word on this Interesting Composer.

Marco also has many of the same characteristics. Though I wasn't as impressed initally, on the original Arditti disc, the Arditti disc with his SQs 1-4 is great. He has Symphonies (at least 5) and Concertos and Piano Music and various Chamber pieces, but I have yet to explore further. Still, I'd keep him on the radar.

There are a few discs, such as one for Spanish Music for 8 cellos, that contains all three composers, but you can get most all of Fracisco Guerrerro's music on just a few discs. If you can handle it. He's pretty rough, like Xenakis with rabies, but not really in the noise factor. There is a ColLegno disc of his Complete Orchestral Works, an Arditti disc of string combos, a chamber disc, and a piano disc.

I have the Arditti, and, it's one of my least favorite things, really. It's very, very hermetically sealed music, very claustaphobic and amorphously searching, like parts of Xenakis (though, here, those parts are expanded). Guerrero is not a Composer you will "like", I don't think, but, if you're like me, that's all you need to start collecting! ::) Oy vey!



I am hoping someone will be able to add here. I know this can be an iffy place for most folks, but, I suspect many would love Halffter's Cello Concerto No.2, or other pieces by these Composers, if giving a fair shot. For anyone already attuned to the Avant-Garde, this should represent a pretty swift rabbithole! I simply thought it was time to bring this group on line. Viva la fiesta!! ;D

Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on October 22, 2010, 05:39:11 AM
It's been a very long time since I listened to Halffter; I only have two works by him, Variaciones sobre la resonancia de un grito and Planto por las víctimas de la violencia, the first one widely mentioned in the literature. To be honest, I don't remember anything about either of those works, that's how long I haven't listened to them :), though this thread will prompt me to listen to them again right away.

Of Pablo I only have one work, Il violino spagnolo, which I like quite a bit. I based my own Menons Klagen um Diotima for tape on about 20 seconds of the work's third movement.

I know of Marco and Guerrero, but I don't have anything by them (well, I do have a few works by the Francisco Guerrero of the 16th Century, though ;)).
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on October 23, 2010, 08:37:34 AM
Variaciones sobre la resonancia de un grito and Planto por las víctimas de la violencia,

Of Pablo I only have one work, Il violino spagnolo, which I like quite a bit. I based my own Menons Klagen um Diotima for tape on about 20 seconds of the work's third movement.

The two Halffter pieces are in the earlier, austere style. YouTube has the Piano Concerto, from the '80s, very nice.

I'll have to listen to that Arditti violin recital.

Seeing as you're the only poster, and knowing your pedigree, I think it's safe to say we probably have the market cornered here! :'(,...oy,... well, at least it's nice to know there IS "one", haha! We ARE the Club, haha! Boy, this makes me feel exclusive! 8)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 10:14:12 AM
Luis De Pablo: 2e2m recital/Paul Mefano



With this release, I'm starting to get a better picture of De Pablo. There are five pieces on this album, four with ensemble. My first thought is "a Spanish Donatoni": De Pablo has the same, percolating high spirits, and he doesn't seem to sound dreary in the least. The coolest feature of this release is a piece De Pablo wrote especially for the cd, a Notturino he quickly jotted down (only 2.5mins), utilizing all the instruments in the other pieces. This piece is a great introduction to modern music in general, having a scintillating atmosphere that is infectious.

De Pablo is fond of tube-y, metallic sounds that seem to reflect a sunny Spanish disposition (very unlike the more dour Halffter). There is a new Claves cd that features a harp concerto and a cello concerto, that might be the next on the list. Beware, though: it appears a lot of De Pablo, like Segunda Lectura, appear on multiple cds, so, his discography is in reality pretty small.

Does anyone have Tarde des Poetas on HM?

Anyhow, if you like Donatoni, you should like De Pablo.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 15, 2010, 07:48:28 PM
I have only the Stradivarius times future disc of Portrait imagine and Com un epileg.

On Amazon, I only saw one other de Pablo disc from Stradivarius, with Los Novisimus and Vendaval.

On the Stradivarius site, I found nothing by de Pablo. In fact, I didn't see any of the many Stradivarius times future discs that I have, though I saw a few I've also seen in stores. What's going on there; does anyone know?

(Wait a minute. I did just find one. A Javier Torres Maldonado. But that's it on that site.)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
I have only the Stradivarius times future disc of Portrait imagine and Com un epileg.

On Amazon, I only saw one other de Pablo disc from Stradivarius, with Los Novisimus and Vendaval.

On the Stradivarius site, I found nothing by de Pablo. In fact, I didn't see any of the many Stradivarius times future discs that I have, though I saw a few I've also seen in stores. What's going on there; does anyone know?

(Wait a minute. I did just find one. A Javier Torres Maldonado. But that's it on that site.)

Stradivarius seems a maddening company all of a sudden. I bought loads of their stuff in the '90s on the sheer strength of their awesome covers! Anyhow, the original De Pablo Strad has Segunda Lectura, Libro de Imagines, and Metaforas. It is slightly disguised on Amazon. But,... all those original, cool discs have either vanished, or their covers have been turned into their new, generic look (I was mortified when I first saw this, and contacted them directly to get a certain cd in the original cover,... yea, I'm like that ::)). That Donatoni disc with For Grilly is a great example. Great original cover, and probably the first Strad I got.

The Strad/De Pablo you have, is that vocals? What do you think?
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: PaulSC on December 16, 2010, 01:53:29 AM
snyprrr, you make me want to check out Halffter, even though I'm deep into a JS Bach binge at the moment. He's a name know but have maybe never listened to. I tend to confuse him with his uncle Rodolfo, who was an early adopter in Spain of twelve-tone techniques.

De Pablo I know rather better; I have the violin piece that PetrArch mentions on an Arditti solo disc, plus your Stradivarius disc and 2e2m recital. Out of those last two I prefer the latter, possibly on the strength of the performances rather than the compositions. Your comparison to Donatoni is spot-on, and the resemblance is strongest in the 2e2m programme -- of course the same group has made excellent recordings of Donatoni.

The comparison to Donatoni may not be favorable to de Pablo, however. Donatoni has a faster rate-of-change -- amazing new ideas, or new twists on old ones, are always popping up -- and he has a lighter touch in his instrumental writing. De Pablo can seem a bit flat-footed in comparison. But his work is appealing on its own terms, and I should give the 2e2m disc a fresh listen even if I'm not in a hurry to acquire more. The back of the 2e2m booklet has that endearing photo of the composer sitting in a doorway with a cat at his side.

The others aren't familiar to me...
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: PaulSC on December 16, 2010, 02:06:12 AM
Oops, after a quick browse I seem to like the Stradivarius disc more, and 2e2m on ADDA less well than I remembered. (Still, that cat picture!)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 16, 2010, 08:03:08 AM
snyprrr, you make me want to check out Halffter, even though I'm deep into a JS Bach binge at the moment. He's a name know but have maybe never listened to. I tend to confuse him with his uncle Rodolfo, who was an early adopter in Spain of twelve-tone techniques.

De Pablo I know rather better; I have the violin piece that PetrArch mentions on an Arditti solo disc, plus your Stradivarius disc and 2e2m recital. Out of those last two I prefer the latter, possibly on the strength of the performances rather than the compositions. Your comparison to Donatoni is spot-on, and the resemblance is strongest in the 2e2m programme -- of course the same group has made excellent recordings of Donatoni.

The comparison to Donatoni may not be favorable to de Pablo, however. Donatoni has a faster rate-of-change -- amazing new ideas, or new twists on old ones, are always popping up -- and he has a lighter touch in his instrumental writing. De Pablo can seem a bit flat-footed in comparison. But his work is appealing on its own terms, and I should give the 2e2m disc a fresh listen even if I'm not in a hurry to acquire more. The back of the 2e2m booklet has that endearing photo of the composer sitting in a doorway with a cat at his side.

The others aren't familiar to me...

The Cello Concerto No.2 might be the place to start with Halffter. The Erato cd also has the Handel Parafrasis, which is built around a beautiful Handel melody (don't know which one).

Glad to see someone else also has checked out De Pablo. I do think that the 2e2m playing is deliciously crisp and bubbly. And yes, Donatoni trumps here, though, as you say, De Pablo really doesn't come off any less.

Cool,... I'm glad there are a few people around. That gives me a little comfort that if I have a little nugget, there will be someone out there that I can share that with. Thanks! ;)

btw- I'm totally obsessed with what kind of Horton Hears A Who type of thing is going on in De Pablo's beard, haha! ;D
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 16, 2010, 08:04:10 AM
btw- our humble little Thread has 125 hits now,...woo hoo! :-*

Looks like we have our guest list, haha!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 16, 2010, 11:20:09 AM
The de Pablo I have is vocals, yes.

I'm still in the "this sounds like..." phase with de Pablo. And Messiaen and late Stravinsky are certainly nice things to sound like.

I think the instrumental bits of both these pieces are more interesting than the choral bits. His vocal writing doesn't come across as nearly as inventive as his instrumental writing. (There's a bass drum+ bit in Com un epileg that's delightful.)

I do hope, with you, that more people contribute to this thread, though. I discovered Gerhard early, and he's remained a favorite of mine. But after Gerhard, I jumped to the more recent Spaniards, especially Francisco Lopez. (Even Kairos has put out a Lopez album--not their usual kind of composer--and it's a five CD set, too.) So I'm interested in backtracking, as it were, and filling in some gaps. Halffter, for instance. I don't think I have any Halffter. I've picked up several Marco and one Guerrero in the past year.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 17, 2010, 12:27:55 PM
The de Pablo I have is vocals, yes.

I'm still in the "this sounds like..." phase with de Pablo. And Messiaen and late Stravinsky are certainly nice things to sound like.

I think the instrumental bits of both these pieces are more interesting than the choral bits. His vocal writing doesn't come across as nearly as inventive as his instrumental writing. (There's a bass drum+ bit in Com un epileg that's delightful.)

I do hope, with you, that more people contribute to this thread, though. I discovered Gerhard early, and he's remained a favorite of mine. But after Gerhard, I jumped to the more recent Spaniards, especially Francisco Lopez. (Even Kairos has put out a Lopez album--not their usual kind of composer--and it's a five CD set, too.) So I'm interested in backtracking, as it were, and filling in some gaps. Halffter, for instance. I don't think I have any Halffter. I've picked up several Marco and one Guerrero in the past year.

I can't seem to connect Gerhard with the Spanish AvantGarde. He remains one of those strange outsider/insiders who always end up living in London. This '51 Group reminds me more of the same type of group coming out of Russia (Denisov, Schnittke, Gubaidulina), though, the sound is totally different.



Go to Amazon and Search "temes grupo" in the music section. He's kinda like a Spanish Mefano, lots of interesting recitals.



Is the Guerrero the cd of chamber works? There seems to be one orchestral, one chamber, one strings, and one piano cd available. And that's his whole output (with an electronic piece too?). He's really gritty.



I'll say again with Halffter, that maybe the Erato disc with Rostropovich is the overall best/most professional/communicative entrance to this ultra serious sounding Composer. I definitely think CH is part of the overall generation of Great Composers (Xenakis, Ligeti, Boulez, Stoc...) that we all love. His most experimental phase would be the late '60s to late '70s. I'm sure someguy would be interested in the Grito electronic piece that PetRock,... I mean PetrArch ::) mentioned.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 17, 2010, 01:32:13 PM
orchestral
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde/Joan Guinjoan
Post by: snyprrr on December 17, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
boy I hope I spelled that right.

Is anyone familiar with Joan Guinjoan?

I take it that it's a man, baby? :-[ 8)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde/Joan Guinjoan
Post by: lescamil on December 18, 2010, 12:07:31 AM
boy I hope I spelled that right.

Is anyone familiar with Joan Guinjoan?

I take it that it's a man, baby? :-[ 8)

Yes, he is a man. Joan is the Catalan equivalent of Juan, which is the Spanish equivalent of John, of course. He is a composer that I am personally still trying to figure out, personally, along with Cristóbal Halffter (don't forget the accents!). Both of their music is highly interesting, though. I really do enjoy the music of Jesús Rueda, a younger but still significant Spanish composer in this lineage who is a bit easier to wrap your head around, but of no less stock. Roberto Gerhard is possibly one of my favorite Spanish composers, even though he has since passed on, and his prime was in the 50s-60s. His brand of serialism is one of the most attractive of all of the 20th century, I would say, and that is quite a feat.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 18, 2010, 12:17:17 AM
I was not familiar with this guy until you mentioned him. But now I have three CDs of his music on order.

(The clips were very tasty indeed.)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on December 18, 2010, 03:51:08 AM
I'm sure someguy would be interested in the Grito electronic piece that PetRock,... I mean PetrArch ::) mentioned.

There. Tweaked my user name to avoid further confusion.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 18, 2010, 09:50:30 PM
There. Tweaked my user name to avoid further confusion.
;D
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde/Joan Guinjoan
Post by: snyprrr on December 18, 2010, 09:55:31 PM
Yes, he is a man. Joan is the Catalan equivalent of Juan, which is the Spanish equivalent of John, of course. He is a composer that I am personally still trying to figure out, personally, along with Cristóbal Halffter (don't forget the accents!). Both of their music is highly interesting, though. I really do enjoy the music of Jesús Rueda, a younger but still significant Spanish composer in this lineage who is a bit easier to wrap your head around, but of no less stock. Roberto Gerhard is possibly one of my favorite Spanish composers, even though he has since passed on, and his prime was in the 50s-60s. His brand of serialism is one of the most attractive of all of the 20th century, I would say, and that is quite a feat.

I can't seem to find the Rueda cd of String Quartets as played by the Arditti. Even the website has funny problems,... iberiautor?? But I've heard some clips from the other chamber disc, and he does seem to continue the hallucinatory aspects,... after all, Spain is Dali!

Dali, Lorca,...
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde/Joan Guinjoan
Post by: lescamil on December 18, 2010, 10:00:21 PM
I can't seem to find the Rueda cd of String Quartets as played by the Arditti. Even the website has funny problems,... iberiautor?? But I've heard some clips from the other chamber disc, and he does seem to continue the hallucinatory aspects,... after all, Spain is Dali!

Dali, Lorca,...

Unfortunately, Rueda's discs, except for the ones on Naxos, are rather tough to find. It's not a huge loss, though, because I find the works on Naxos to be a bit better in quality, even though the String Quartets disk with the Arditti Quartet and another chamber works disc on Col Legno should not be missed.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 22, 2010, 08:48:07 AM
oh, great,...

This is the kind of X@&%F that gives me the  :-\ smilee.

The Ardittis have a "Vol.1" of Cristobal Halffter's SQs (1,3,6), and, so what should happen??,... the Leipzigers on MDG are releasing a Halffter SQ disc (1,2,7). I mean, cpme on guys, can we get some communication here? Why waste all this time and energy like this when there are plenty of things that await sooomeone's attention?!? ???

FacePalm Award Nominee to be sure. :-X aye...
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 30, 2010, 09:57:48 PM
I just found two Halffter pieces in my collection, one in the 25 Years EXPERIMENTALSTUDIO Freiburg set. That's the Variaciones sobre la resonancia de un grito piece that's been mentioned. The other is in the 75 Jahre Donaueschinger Musiktage 1921-1996 set. Planto por las victimas de la violencia. Both of those sets are full of pieces I've liked better. And listening to them both again recently, I notice that they're both of that static, long line, not much happens kind of thing that I only recently started to fancy. So that's why I had no clear recollection of them.

Now....

And I recently got two Auvidis/Montaigne CDs of Halffter. That's right. Auvidis/Montaigne. (I work on call at the corner classical record store here in town. And there are a few treasures like that to be found. Well, they're to be found in my house, now. ;)

One has Concierto para violin y orquesta no. 1 and Mural sonante on it, both of which I like very much. The other has Versus and concierto para piano y orquesta on it. Versus gets interesting once it leaves the pastiche section behind. The piano concerto didn't impress on first hearing. But I never fash meself about first impressions.

And I have a CD of Halffter orchestral music coming in the mail.

Thanks to synprrr for the heads up on this interesting composer!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on December 31, 2010, 01:00:22 AM
I just found two Halffter pieces in my collection, one in the 25 Years EXPERIMENTALSTUDIO Freiburg set. That's the Variaciones sobre la resonancia de un grito piece that's been mentioned. The other is in the 75 Jahre Donaueschinger Musiktage 1921-1996 set. Planto por las victimas de la violencia.

Got those two sets myself :) and up until yesterday they were the only Halffter I had for more than 10 years... Got this new release from MDG but haven't listened to it yet.

(http://www.mdg.de/cover/1671rcs.jpg)

http://www.mdg.de/titel/1671.htm
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on December 31, 2010, 02:23:06 AM
(http://www.mdg.de/cover/1671rcs.jpg)

So I just gave this a listen and it's good. I liked SQs 1 and 2 better than 7, which seemed a tad long-winded. I couldn't help but be reminded of Rihm's SQs when listening to this, even though 1 and 2 predate Rihm's SQs. There were also stretches bringing back memories of Ligeti's Lontano. Overall, makes me want to get Arditti's disc with SQ 1, 3 and 6. I read that 4 and 5 are miniatures that were eventually integrated into 6, so the Leipziger and Arditti discs should cover all of Halffter's output for SQ.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: MDL on December 31, 2010, 03:23:13 AM
One of the very first pieces of avant-garde music I ever heard, as I was taking my first tentative steps in my mid-teens, was Cristobal Halffter's oratorio Yes, Speak Out, Yes which made an enormous impression on me. I've got it on a crappy old cassette somewhere in the garage and although I haven't played it for well over a decade, if not two, I played it so often in my teens, I can recall most of it quite vividly. I must dig it out and see if I can still play it. I'll be gutted if it's unplayable.

Does anyone know if there are any plans to record it?

Edit: I should have said that I taped a live broadcast in the very early '80s. I think it was the Philharmonia in the Festival Hall.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 31, 2010, 08:22:12 AM
(I work on call at the corner classical record store here in town. And there are a few treasures like that to be found. Well, they're to be found in my house, now. ;)



jealous!!!!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 31, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
I just found two Halffter pieces in my collection, one in the 25 Years EXPERIMENTALSTUDIO Freiburg set. That's the Variaciones sobre la resonancia de un grito piece that's been mentioned. The other is in the 75 Jahre Donaueschinger Musiktage 1921-1996 set. Planto por las victimas de la violencia. Both of those sets are full of pieces I've liked better. And listening to them both again recently, I notice that they're both of that static, long line, not much happens kind of thing that I only recently started to fancy. So that's why I had no clear recollection of them.

Now....

And I recently got two Auvidis/Montaigne CDs of Halffter. That's right. Auvidis/Montaigne. (I work on call at the corner classical record store here in town. And there are a few treasures like that to be found. Well, they're to be found in my house, now. ;)

One has Concierto para violin y orquesta no. 1 and Mural sonante on it, both of which I like very much. The other has Versus and concierto para piano y orquesta on it. Versus gets interesting once it leaves the pastiche section behind. The piano concerto didn't impress on first hearing. But I never fash meself about first impressions.

And I have a CD of Halffter orchestral music coming in the mail.

Thanks to synprrr for the heads up on this interesting composer!

You're still going to want to get the Cello Concerto No.2. I've been trying to find those two you mentioned for cheap.

There is an LP of CH on YouTube which has Synposium, Lineas & Puntos?, and one other piece, and Officium Defunctorum is on YouTube also, a very powerful piece.



I agree that CH's early period (up to @1972) is of the 'static' variety, much like Donatoni before he became interesting, but, many previously academic Composers matured in the early to mid '70s.

Still, I won't stop propping up the CC2.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 31, 2010, 08:36:47 AM
So I just gave this a listen and it's good. I liked SQs 1 and 2 better than 7, which seemed a tad long-winded. I couldn't help but be reminded of Rihm's SQs when listening to this, even though 1 and 2 predate Rihm's SQs. There were also stretches bringing back memories of Ligeti's Lontano. Overall, makes me want to get Arditti's disc with SQ 1, 3 and 6. I read that 4 and 5 are miniatures that were eventually integrated into 6, so the Leipziger and Arditti discs should cover all of Halffter's output for SQ.

Wow, that was quick. I thought it wasn't avail until Jan.11?

Anyhow, you don't find it curious that we all of sudden have competing CH SQs?

I did like No.1. To my ear, it begins much like Bartok No.4. I like the Don Quixote-type fourth/fifth in the Finale. Very much in the vein of those Composers who started out being influenced by Bartok, and then visited Darmstadt, and, poof!



I know that SQ No.4 is just that short piece Con Bravura y Sentimiento, which can be found on the Arditti 'Vienna' cd, but I,... ok, I just checked, and No.5 is only @7mins. Where did you read that they were incorporated into No.6? I'll check the liner notes on the Arditti.

I imagine No.2 is pretty cool, but No.3 is probably the BigOne here, which of course, can be had on that old Arditti Spanish disc. That one is total experimental.


Still,...Arditti, let's get that hen out!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 31, 2010, 08:41:26 AM
Yes, and I've just ordered Halffter's Piano Music on the Verso label (verso-producciones.com; only available in u.k., or download on amazon; (search: garvayo)), the same label that had that chamber disc.

And,... I just ordered Luis De Pablo's Piano Trio. There are now three! cds of this piece! There is a ColLegno PT disc and now also a Verso PT disc. What IS with all this duplication lately??

ok, my CDCDCD was kicking up, and I wanted to make a clean break for 2011, haha, so I had to choose, so I decided to shore up the Spanish Main!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 31, 2010, 08:42:15 AM
One more post just to add some heft! ::) ;D
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on December 31, 2010, 11:06:22 AM
I like the static stuff a lot, now. So those pieces are fine for me!

The string quartets and the cello concerto are going to be ordered by me within seconds of me clicking "Post" on this post.

Those two sets I mentioned (25 and 75) are pretty interesting. I have several like that--collections of festivals or organizations over some time span or other. I just realized I have two of the Michigan folk, the ONCE festival set and the SOURCE set. And I think I finally have all of the Musik in Deutschland series. Hard to tell with them. I've stopped trying to find any more, anyway.

But, back to Spain, I still don't have anything in my collection that I enjoy any more than Francisco Lopez. But that doesn't stop me from liking all the de Pablo, del Puerto, Villa-Rojo, Maldonado, Torres, and Gerhard that I also have. (Music is good fun.)

Has anyone heard anything by that guy with the French name? Agustin Charles.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: just Jeff on January 02, 2011, 03:04:19 AM
Digging deep into the 20th Century collection of LPs I am currently enjoying, I find the earliest LP pressing of any works by Cristobal Halffter to be the Spanish RCA Victor "Panarama of Contemporary Music" LSC-16329.  Looks like 1967 vintage recordings. 

The Halffter piece is titled "Espejos" and the set also contains Luis De Pablo's "Cesuras" among a couple other composers works.

Recorded in Madrid, conducted by Enrique Garcia Asensio.

I might just have to post a picture of this album cover, you know how I am,
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: some guy on January 02, 2011, 08:10:27 AM
Do it!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 02, 2011, 07:58:09 PM
So I just gave this a listen and it's good. I liked SQs 1 and 2 better than 7, which seemed a tad long-winded. I couldn't help but be reminded of Rihm's SQs when listening to this, even though 1 and 2 predate Rihm's SQs. There were also stretches bringing back memories of Ligeti's Lontano. Overall, makes me want to get Arditti's disc with SQ 1, 3 and 6. I read that 4 and 5 are miniatures that were eventually integrated into 6, so the Leipziger and Arditti discs should cover all of Halffter's output for SQ.

I listened to SQ No.6, and could hear where the intro ends (SQ No.5), and where the ending begins (SQ No.4). And yes, my notes declare this incorporation also.

But that seems to beg the question for me concerning the programming of these two potential cycles.



3 Pieces (SQ 1): @13mins

SQ 2: @22mins???

SQ3: @20mins

SQ4: 4mins

SQ5: 7mins

SQ6: @20mins

SQ7: @25mins???



That's such an unwinnable time constraint for cd programming. :(



btw- was No.7 a static piece, or noisy, or both? No.6 sounds like he's really blazing, and the central part, the actually newly written part, has a very beautiful mysterious central section, before it whips up the ending which is No.4.

Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on January 03, 2011, 05:59:50 AM
btw- was No.7 a static piece, or noisy, or both? No.6 sounds like he's really blazing, and the central part, the actually newly written part, has a very beautiful mysterious central section, before it whips up the ending which is No.4.

Both. It has 7 parts, the odd-numbered ones consisting of silences of 10-20 seconds where poetry is read silently in the manner of Nono's Fragmente-Stille (but, unlike it, the poetry is projected on a screen for the audience to read) and the even-numbered ones with music, each roughly 7-8 minutes long.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 03, 2011, 07:42:43 PM
Luis De Pablo Piano Trio (October 1993)

There are now three recordings of this piece, which I am now listen to the Premiere Recording on Ermitage (w/Ives & Solbiati!). This cd has always been on The List for its inventive, yet explicable, program.

I suppose the main feature of De Pablo's PT (his first, check out the other discs) is that it is the most conspicuous PT in the generation of masters which runs from Maderna to Xenakis to Boulez and later (yes James, curious about KS). No one wrote one! Much like none very many from Prokofiev and Hindemith before them.

So, this PT has always had a kind of allure as a sole example of what a PT of High Modernism might sound like. If you are afraid there will be 'Spanishness', let me put your fears aside. This premiere PT by Luis De Pablo is quite a beautifully crafted piece, in three poetic mvmts, that I struggle to find compare. I wouldn't call it 'serial'. It is in free fantasy form as I call it, not hysterical, yet full of tickling effects, such as the introduction (how will it start? I wondered) where the violin and high register piano and cello and low register piano mingle in a De Pablo variation of the Xenakis 'arbor' scales. Truly, this is an intimate and vigorous music for piano, violin, and cello. I will post in the PT Thread.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 04, 2011, 02:14:10 PM
So I just gave this a listen and it's good. I liked SQs 1 and 2 better than 7, which seemed a tad long-winded. I couldn't help but be reminded of Rihm's SQs when listening to this, even though 1 and 2 predate Rihm's SQs. There were also stretches bringing back memories of Ligeti's Lontano. Overall, makes me want to get Arditti's disc with SQ 1, 3 and 6. I read that 4 and 5 are miniatures that were eventually integrated into 6, so the Leipziger and Arditti discs should cover all of Halffter's output for SQ.

ok, Vol.2 of the Halffter SQ cycle by the Arditti is on their website, and on diverdi.com.

SQs 2,4,5,7

alrighty then!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 04, 2011, 02:37:21 PM
Francisco Lopez.

Forgive me, but I'm excavating my eyes from the back of my head. ;D I shoulda known! Lopez looks like he's in a race with the Merzbow guy, no? Only one review on Amazon, about a 'barest drone' that works its way into a lather.

soooooo,.... what do you,...uh,.... recommend? I thought you guys said there weren't that many cd length A/E guys, a la Persepolis? I see he's on the 'Remix' album. anyhoo....

At first I thought you meant the Lopez-Lopez guy. I think he's in with the Halffter/De Pablo crows. Jose Manuel Lopez-Lopez? And the Turina guy.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: just Jeff on January 10, 2011, 03:53:50 AM
Do it!

ok

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/halfterft.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/halfterbk.jpg)

The piece is a pretty wild ride, very avant-garde if I say so!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: just Jeff on January 10, 2011, 04:00:11 AM
and of course this pricey CD I have up at amazon.  No other sellers of this title have come forward in the last 9 months...

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/halffterft.jpg)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 10, 2011, 08:36:45 AM
and of course this pricey CD I have up at amazon.  No other sellers of this title have come forward in the last 9 months...

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/halffterft.jpg)

YYYou're the culprit, eh??? >:( ;D

$9.99,... not a penny more!!! :P
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 28, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Awaiting Cristobal Halffter's Piano Music on Verso.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on March 10, 2011, 11:28:46 PM
So I just gave this a listen and it's good. I liked SQs 1 and 2 better than 7, which seemed a tad long-winded. I couldn't help but be reminded of Rihm's SQs when listening to this, even though 1 and 2 predate Rihm's SQs. There were also stretches bringing back memories of Ligeti's Lontano. Overall, makes me want to get Arditti's disc with SQ 1, 3 and 6. I read that 4 and 5 are miniatures that were eventually integrated into 6, so the Leipziger and Arditti discs should cover all of Halffter's output for SQ.

3/11 Vol.2 in the Arditti's survey (2,4,5,7) comes out today (only available through Diverdi at the moment). Can't wait!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on June 03, 2011, 05:52:08 PM
Halffter, String quartets vol. 2, Arditti String Quartet

(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/43645/C33007_b.jpg)

This is a more polished rendition of SQ 2 and SQ 7 than the Leipziger on MDG. The Leipziger sounds more romantic and warm, whereas the Arditti sounds cleaner, more clinical (in a good way) and refined. With the Arditti, the comparison with Rihm I made earlier no longer feels completely accurate; for instance, they make SQ 2 sound more carefully and subtly put together, a restrained wildness that differs from the jaggedness and angular figures that reminded me of Rihm in the other recording.

SQ 2, which I already enjoyed, is, with this recording, turning out to be my absolute favorite Halffter.

A nice bonus on this CD is the recordings of Con bravura y sentimiento and Zeitgestalt, the two "intermediate" quartets that were absorbed into SQ 6. Although I also have vol. 1, I haven't yet played it to compare these with SQ 6. However, it is clear that Con bravura y sentimiento is too short all by itself and really needs room to breathe. Perhaps the best way to consume this piece is as part of a program with the other pieces dedicated to Alfred Schlee; I'll give that a try sometime. Zeitgestalt fares much better as an independent piece.

I'll compare the two versions of SQ 7 some other time. After listening to SQ 2, listening to SQ 7 feels like a pointless and unfair exercise.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on June 03, 2011, 05:59:08 PM
3 Pieces (SQ 1): @13mins
SQ 2: @22mins??? -
SQ3: @20mins
SQ4: 4mins
SQ5: 7mins
SQ6: @20mins
SQ7: @25mins???

SQ 2 is 22 mins Leipziger, 18 mins Arditti
SQ 4 comes at 2:40 with the Arditti
SQ 5 is 8 mins with the Arditti
SQ 7 is 23 mins with both the Leipziger and the Arditti
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on June 04, 2011, 06:01:27 AM
Halffter, String quartets vol. 2, Arditti String Quartet

(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/43645/C33007_b.jpg)

This is a more polished rendition of SQ 2 and SQ 7 than the Leipziger on MDG. The Leipziger sounds more romantic and warm, whereas the Arditti sounds cleaner, more clinical (in a good way) and refined. With the Arditti, the comparison with Rihm I made earlier no longer feels completely accurate; for instance, they make SQ 2 sound more carefully and subtly put together, a restrained wildness that differs from the jaggedness and angular figures that reminded me of Rihm in the other recording.

SQ 2, which I already enjoyed, is, with this recording, turning out to be my absolute favorite Halffter.

A nice bonus on this CD is the recordings of Con bravura y sentimiento and Zeitgestalt, the two "intermediate" quartets that were absorbed into SQ 6. Although I also have vol. 1, I haven't yet played it to compare these with SQ 6. However, it is clear that Con bravura y sentimiento is too short all by itself and really needs room to breathe. Perhaps the best way to consume this piece is as part of a program with the other pieces dedicated to Alfred Schlee; I'll give that a try sometime. Zeitgestalt fares much better as an independent piece.

I'll compare the two versions of SQ 7 some other time. After listening to SQ 2, listening to SQ 7 feels like a pointless and unfair exercise.

aaaackkkk!!!!!

HOW DID YOU GET THIS????

It's only available from Diverdi in Spain, with a 20EU shipping. HOW HOW HOW?????
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Coco on June 04, 2011, 06:16:57 AM
Thank you for this thread. :) I knew nothing of any of these composers (except a bit of Gerhard, and only by reputation), so I will have fun exploring. I was able to find the disc with Halffter's 2nd VC cto and Parafrasis, Marco's Modelos de Universo (col legno), a disc of the Ardittis playing Guerrero. Can't wait to dive into these.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: klingsor on June 04, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
I have these

(http://www.blujay.com/1/472/3374943_s1_i1.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJsNXGHmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Will try to upload a sample track next week

Also have Cristobal Halffter 3

Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on June 04, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
aaaackkkk!!!!!

HOW DID YOU GET THIS????

It's only available from Diverdi in Spain, with a 20EU shipping. HOW HOW HOW?????

Bought it at a store while on vacation in Portugal about 6 weeks ago.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: klingsor on June 05, 2011, 02:49:51 AM
Bought it at a store while on vacation in Portugal about 6 weeks ago.

These CDs can also be found on Alibris.com:

http://www.alibris.com/musicsearch?qwork=700207693&matches=3&keyword=cristobal+halffter&mtype=M&cm_sp=works*listing*title
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 03:00:09 AM
These CDs can also be found on Alibris.com:

http://www.alibris.com/musicsearch?qwork=700207693&matches=3&keyword=cristobal+halffter&mtype=M&cm_sp=works*listing*title

We're talking about volume 2 of the SQs. Volume 1 is fairly easy to find.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on June 05, 2011, 06:07:43 AM
Bought it at a store while on vacation in Portugal about 6 weeks ago.

aaaaaarrrrghhhhh :'(

ah, what am I to do now? Do you want to encourage me to spend about $55 for this (I probably would)?

Boy, I'm gonna have to start a 'Are you going to Spain?' Thread. ::)


"and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"


STELLLLAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: klingsor on June 06, 2011, 01:23:12 AM
We're talking about volume 2 of the SQs. Volume 1 is fairly easy to find.

They can all be found there
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on June 06, 2011, 01:29:57 AM
They can all be found there

I only see 3 matches, all of vol. 1.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on June 06, 2011, 05:36:25 AM
They can all be found there

Where?... where?.... (sound of furniture crashing)... wahhhhhhhhh :'(
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on June 08, 2011, 05:36:28 AM
I only see 3 matches, all of vol. 1.

They can all be found there

As if by supernatural fiat, Vol.2 was announced on Amazon as being released July12!!. Yay!!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: DavidW on June 08, 2011, 05:56:27 AM
Klingsor left? ??? :'(
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on June 08, 2011, 06:02:36 PM
Klingsor left? ??? :'(

Well,... he was right here,... huh,... well, yes, he must have... left? ???
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: petrarch on July 18, 2011, 04:24:49 AM
Is he the son of Roldolfo?  Rodolfo Halffter was an interesting composer of the generation of '27 and a very good composer, so it would make sense - but I have no information one way or the other.

Cristóbal is the nephew of Rodolfo.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on July 18, 2011, 09:17:19 AM
Cristóbal is the nephew of Rodolfo.

Well, Vol.2 of the Arditti Cycle has been 'released',... Allegro has a couple of copies, but Amazon doesn't seem to have a copy yet. I went ahead and ordered it from Amazon, hoping they'll get a copy quicker than 4-6 weeks ( :o :-X :'(). If it appears that the 'Meltdown' will happen before Amazon gets a copy :o,... I WILL cancel the order!! :-*

Why does it have to be this hard? ::)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on July 18, 2011, 09:20:22 AM
I have these

(http://www.blujay.com/1/472/3374943_s1_i1.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJsNXGHmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Will try to upload a sample track next week

Also have Cristobal Halffter 3



I see now that Kairos has released the 3 SQs of Jesus Rueda on Amazon.uk. Seeing as that Arditti set has gone AWOL (I have so tried to communicate with 'iberautor', or whatever that strange, non working website is called (boy, and they have some interesting stuff)), this is a welcome relief.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on July 30, 2011, 09:50:39 PM
Halffter, String quartets vol. 2, Arditti String Quartet

(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/43645/C33007_b.jpg)

This is a more polished rendition of SQ 2 and SQ 7 than the Leipziger on MDG. The Leipziger sounds more romantic and warm, whereas the Arditti sounds cleaner, more clinical (in a good way) and refined. With the Arditti, the comparison with Rihm I made earlier no longer feels completely accurate; for instance, they make SQ 2 sound more carefully and subtly put together, a restrained wildness that differs from the jaggedness and angular figures that reminded me of Rihm in the other recording.

SQ 2, which I already enjoyed, is, with this recording, turning out to be my absolute favorite Halffter.

A nice bonus on this CD is the recordings of Con bravura y sentimiento and Zeitgestalt, the two "intermediate" quartets that were absorbed into SQ 6. Although I also have vol. 1, I haven't yet played it to compare these with SQ 6. However, it is clear that Con bravura y sentimiento is too short all by itself and really needs room to breathe. Perhaps the best way to consume this piece is as part of a program with the other pieces dedicated to Alfred Schlee; I'll give that a try sometime. Zeitgestalt fares much better as an independent piece.

I'll compare the two versions of SQ 7 some other time. After listening to SQ 2, listening to SQ 7 feels like a pointless and unfair exercise.

I just got this today (love the blue dust jacket!,... goes so well with vol.1 ;)). I saved No.2 for the late night ride, and when I finally heard it, I was surprised. I knew there was an experimental element, and this piece has been built up elsewhere, but I had no idea it would revolve around Beethoven fragments. At first I was hesitant, but, if I lump this quartet in with the "influenced by the '60s" set, Halffter treats his materials with the same reverence that informs all his output I recall the SQ from, I believe, the same year, by Peter Ruzicka (I'm sure you have it), which he wrote in a drug experimentation lab. I thought I remembered an LvB or Mahler quote in there.

I thought No.2 did sound (or, reminded me) of Rihm's SQ No.3, too. Perhaps this is the comparison you heard?


Though I have no desire to shell out more for the Leipzigers, you certainly make me want to compare for myself. You must admit that it is a freak luxury to have brand new competing versions of these pieces, no? This never happens. ???

I had prepared myself for disappointment with No.7, perhaps having taken your review wrongly; but, I was pleasantly surprised by the cascades of notes that greeted me in the first two movements. I still haven't heard the last track, but already I'm liking this piece a lot. 6-7 sound very mature to me, the Grand Old Man of Spanish High Modernism just letting it flow. I feel an atmospheric kinship to Berio's Notturno, and Boucourchliev's last. A lot of these older types of Composers have written some very deep sounding Late Works since the late '90s. Perhaps the greatest days of experimentation are gone for them, but their Mastery of Forn & Content is Complete. Being as No.7 was so much better than I has hoped for, I have taken to liking No.6 more too.

I did play 5-6 back and forth to hear how No.5 was absorbed into 6. Am I hearing more stuff in the proper No.5, or is the 6 recording different (I don't think so)?,... I can tell some sections, but, I think maybe some portions are changed? I can't tell yet where the torso of 6 begins. I did like No.5 fairly well by itself.


In all now, I'm very impressed with Halffter's maturing. You like No.2 best, I like No.3. I also like the warmth of reflection in No.7, a very nice mature work. I practically have all the available Halffter Chamber Music now, and am looking forward to a chronological survey. Halffter I like; maybe it's the sad eyes?

I do also sense this new Arditti unit playing very fiercely, and the recording captures such a wonderful group sound, very rich I thought. These are recordings that are very pleasurable to listen to I thought. The group's playing is just so there that there's really nothing to talk about.


I had wanted to add some balancing criticism so that you wouldn't think I'm sucking up, but, I'm thinking this Cycle stands up well to comparison with any of Halffter's peers' SQ Cycles. For some reason, comparison with Berio's Cycle seem appropriate. What do you think?
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on July 31, 2011, 07:32:35 PM
SQ 2 is 22 mins Leipziger, 18 mins Arditti
SQ 4 comes at 2:40 with the Arditti
SQ 5 is 8 mins with the Arditti
SQ 7 is 23 mins with both the Leipziger and the Arditti

I want to ask you about track 6, the last track on this vol.2. Does the very first note (it takes a few seconds, @10secs.??) sound funny to you, as if it were a bad edit,... or, is that just the first note? You have to turn it up to really hear what I'm hearing. When it's fairly low, it just sounds like the first note, very very soft, but when it's louder it almost does sound like an edit.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on March 06, 2012, 08:56:44 AM
Jesus Rueda & Alberto Posadas


The moment I put on Rueda's String Quartet No.1, I heard what seemed to be familiar motifs. After a few moments I said to myself, This sounds a lot like Guerrero. And, lo and behold, the notes claimed Guerrero as teacher!

Later I put on Posadas's five quartet cycle Liturgia Fractal, and, the same thing occurred. The same 'fractal' sounding meme that permeates Guerrero's work was intrinsically worked out here, in a 50min. multi-movement work.

First off, I have to admit that when I first listened to Guerrero's music for strings as presented by the Arditti, I really really didn't like this 'Spanish Xenakis'. Guerrero plowed the same fields as Xenakis, with similarly ascetic results, but with a grimy humorlessness that made the music unattractive to me. Sure, there was science, but did it HAVE to sound so... so.... uncompromising?

So, imagine my, um, slight displeasure at first. To be sure, the entire 50mins. of the Posadas work in draining to listen to, with none of the markers that I was looking for. Though more 'exciting' than Guerrero, this music still is a formidable slab of de rigour. The Rueda piece was even more imaginative, but still retained the harsh contours of all these works.

Ruedas second two String Quartets, however, TOTALLY shift gears into a much much more evocative cast. These two are advanced yet meditative, earthy yet mercurial, perhaps reminding one more of a Frenchman's take on things,... well,... Spain IS south of France!

Both cds are on the Kairos label, though the Rueda seems to be only available in the EU. The Arditti did have a 2-cd set of the Rueda SQs, plus other works, that for all purposes seems to have gone down with the Spanish economy, so, this new release reveals what none of us could have discovered years ago.

These two were my foray into unknown territory last year, and reveal both the pleasures and dangers of totally new stuff (that you have to PAY for (very important,... right?, you promo hogs?? (you know who you are (yes, FOUR :o parenthesis!!!! )))). I get slightly disappointed in that things are not exactly like I expect them, but, thankfully, the works are chewy enough to keep one coming back for intimacy's sake.

I don't mean this review as a Buy It Now!, since I would suppose most who would be in the market might hesitate in the face of a not-100%, 'just like Xenakis', review. Don't get me wrong, both are worthy explorations, but I have to know that there would be only about 2-3, to begin with, who might be interested. Perhaps, if you need something rough and ready, try the Posadas; I mean, it is a quite substantial work, and worthy of close scrutiny (it also sounds just right played backwards and at double speed, so, yes, it IS one of those kinds of works, haha). Enjoy?!?!! ;D
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Pessoa on November 13, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410whh3FcuL._SY450_.jpg)

For 6 percussionists and voice  :)
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Pessoa on November 13, 2013, 12:38:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5URsPmrdJhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j8qY8_IQ1jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U-UfUxi2G3g

David del Puerto (1964): Carmen Replay (2009), ballet for soprano, electric guitar and accordion. Three fragments.

Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on November 14, 2013, 08:11:10 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410whh3FcuL._SY450_.jpg)

For 6 percussionists and voice  :)

Well that's interesting. He likes the 'magical' sounds, so I can see him weaving things with 6Ps.

I have a couple of works by del Puerto, oboe and harpsichord concertos, on Bvhaast (both with Xenakis), and I remember them as wanting to return to them, or to explore a little further.

What do you think of Rueda and Posadas, or, Guerrero in general. All quite a brutal vision of Xenakian Spectralism? ??? :o
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Pessoa on November 14, 2013, 12:21:52 PM
Yes, Guerrero sounds like a Xenakis´s discharge. It´s a pity he died at a young age.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2015, 06:18:29 AM
I'm keen to hear the Arditti recordings of Cristobal Halffter's quartets. If anyone sees them for sale, or can upload them, please let me know.

Listening right now to the Leipzig Quartet play Espacio de Silencio - this is pretty cool music.

Edit: found two of them on Amazon.es, but I'll leave the post here in case anyone wants to talk music. Were there only two?
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 17, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
I'm keen to hear the Arditti recordings of Cristobal Halffter's quartets. If anyone sees them for sale, or can upload them, please let me know.

Listening right now to the Leipzig Quartet play Espacio de Silencio - this is pretty cool music.

Edit: found two of them on Amazon.es, but I'll leave the post here in case anyone wants to talk music. Were there only two?

I saw that those Arditti/Halffter discs were looking a bit OOP,... mm,... got mine when they came out,... you know how it works that way,...

Yes, two volumes,...


Halffter- yea, I really like his take,... he seems very sad about his Espana... he also is one of those that puts ancient melodies in the midst of die-hard AvantGardism, but it works with him,... he's certainly "kitchen sink" like Schnittke, though they both share similarities of gloom (also along with 80s Penderecki- witness all three of their Cello Concertos for Slava, all pretty morose).

Hope you fish out a copy...
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2015, 10:24:50 AM
I saw that those Arditti/Halffter discs were looking a bit OOP,... mm,... got mine when they came out,... you know how it works that way,...

Yes, two volumes,...


Halffter- yea, I really like his take,... he seems very sad about his Espana... he also is one of those that puts ancient melodies in the midst of die-hard AvantGardism, but it works with him,... he's certainly "kitchen sink" like Schnittke, though they both share similarities of gloom (also along with 80s Penderecki- witness all three of their Cello Concertos for Slava, all pretty morose).

Hope you fish out a copy...

Yes I ordered both and vol 2 arrived today, I'm listening to the 7th now, which sounds much more aggressive than the Leipzig Quartet, as you would expect! The 2nd has this enormous quote from Beethoven!  I can't wait to hear the 3rd quartet you liked so much.

Anyway, this is just to say thanks for this thread - there's a lot of interesting music to explore here.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: ritter on December 20, 2015, 11:02:48 AM
Yes I ordered both and vol 2 arrived today, I'm listening to the 7th now, which sounds much more aggressive than the Leipzig Quartet, as you would expect! The 2nd has this enormous quote from Beethoven!  I can't wait to hear the 3rd quartet you liked so much.

Anyway, this is just to say thanks for this thread - there's a lot of interesting music to explore here.
There's an Eighth SQ by Cristóbal Halffter, permièred last year here in Madrid by the Leipzig (not yet on CD). I attended the première; it was a memorable concert (at the Reina Sofía Museum), and I could shake the composer's hand at the end, and express my gratitude and admiration. This Eighth Quartet has quotes from Bartók (which I must admit I could not identify  :-[ ). The program appropriately included Bartók's First and Sixth SQ.

As snyprrr rightly points out, Halffter manages to introduce quotations form old music into his die-hard modernist idiom very succesfully. It's almost become a sort of trademark of his art.

As for the Second SQ,the Beethoven quote (from the op. 135 SQ) was again used very effectively in a work for for string orchestra with the title Pourquoi?. It's available on this CD (which contains some major Halffter works, and really worth exploring):



Nice to see Cristóbal Halffter appreciated here on GMG. A great composer IMHO, whose music I have loved fro some 25 years now....
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2015, 01:37:13 PM
It does look as though vol 1 of the Arditti recordings, the one with the famous 3rd quartet, really is unobtainable. So if anyone sees it please let me know.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on December 27, 2015, 11:47:01 AM
There's an Eighth SQ by Cristóbal Halffter, permièred last year here in Madrid by the Leipzig (not yet on CD). I attended the première; it was a memorable concert (at the Reina Sofía Museum), and I could shake the composer's hand at the end, and express my gratitude and admiration. This Eighth Quartet has quotes from Bartók (which I must admit I could not identify  :-[ ). The program appropriately included Bartók's First and Sixth SQ.

As snyprrr rightly points out, Halffter manages to introduce quotations form old music into his die-hard modernist idiom very succesfully. It's almost become a sort of trademark of his art.

As for the Second SQ,the Beethoven quote (from the op. 135 SQ) was again used very effectively in a work for for string orchestra with the title Pourquoi?. It's available on this CD (which contains some major Halffter works, and really worth exploring):



Nice to see Cristóbal Halffter appreciated here on GMG. A great composer IMHO, whose music I have loved fro some 25 years now....

Yes, I've enjoyed that Verso disc... along with the one with 'Music for Piano(s)'... and that odd Temes...Conjunto release (very Spanish release)...

wish those old Montaigne releases weren't so $$$, would like the Violin Conceeto... Piano... Cello...



he's got to be getting old ??? I am really drawn to the Late Works of these Final Masters of High Modernism... he's about one of the last...
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2015, 05:35:27 AM
I have both volumes now. Vol 1. was easily obtained through La Quinta de Mahler in Madrid, Vol 2 through Amazon.es.

But what I wonder is this: has anyone pealed off the stickers to create their own artistic arrangement on the front? Photographs appreciated.
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde
Post by: snyprrr on January 01, 2016, 10:02:22 AM
I have both volumes now. Vol 1. was easily obtained through La Quinta de Mahler in Madrid, Vol 2 through Amazon.es.

But what I wonder is this: has anyone pealed off the stickers to create their own artistic arrangement on the front? Photographs appreciated.

I did with the first one, but I felt like I was ruining it- I mean, what if you put the sticker down and it's off by just a fraction????? horrors!!!!!! so I left the other one in tact..... yes, the temptation is strong

best packaging EVERRRRR!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: La Generacion del '51: The Spanish Avant-Garde LUIS DE PABLO
Post by: snyprrr on April 20, 2016, 03:45:43 PM
Has anyone kept up with Luis De Pablo recently? I was about to break out the Library...