Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Jo498]

Gilels died before completing the DG set and all his earlier or live recordings only double a subset of the sonatas. The most serious omission is op.111, also missing are op.2/1, 14/1, 54 and 78. It's very good but often a bit slow and heavy.

I am afraid I never really got the special appeal of Heidsieck's Beethoven although I don't remember much except a few oddities.
IIRC 2 years ago I listened to a lot of Beethoven sonatas over summer and appreciated the live Lucchesini more than I had before but I don't recall much about the Heidsieck, although I must have listened to at least some of them at that time.

[Mandryka]

The thing that surprises me most about @Todd 's list, is that he actually managed to listen to Ciani. For me it's unlistenable - not because of the performances but because of the sound.

Nikolayeva is an interesting one to think about. I just wonder whether it's all equally disappointing or whether there are special things hidden away in there. Her Diabelli Variations, which I think are from the same time roughly, are rather fine.

I've not heard the Goode sonatas recordings, but I have heard him play the Diabelli Variations in concert and I can say in all confidence that it was bloody awful. So I'm not surprised it doesn't do too well in the tier table.

[AnotherSpin]

Gilels died before completing the DG set and all his earlier or live recordings only double a subset of the sonatas. The most serious omission is op.111, also missing are op.2/1, 14/1, 54 and 78. It's very good but often a bit slow and heavy.

I am afraid I never really got the special appeal of Heidsieck's Beethoven although I don't remember much except a few oddities.
IIRC 2 years ago I listened to a lot of Beethoven sonatas over summer and appreciated the live Lucchesini more than I had before but I don't recall much about the Heidsieck, although I must have listened to at least some of them at that time.

It seems that the fact that Gilels did not complete his set is well known. It just seemed that Todd knows something that is unknown to others  

I'm listening to Heidsieck now, so far it's not catching on. But, that's quite normal, different listeners have their preferences and their reasons for not being excited.

[AnotherSpin]

The thing that surprises me most about @Todd 's list, is that he actually managed to listen to Ciani. For me it's unlistenable - not because of the performances but because of the sound. [..]

Therein lies the ultimate mastery of the great listener. To ignore the external, to immerse oneself in the essence 

[Todd]

The thing that surprises me most about @Todd 's list, is that he actually managed to listen to Ciani. For me it's unlistenable - not because of the performances but because of the sound.

The Ciani cycle is, by far, the worst sounding cycle in existence, and sometimes it sounds worse than poorly transferred acoustic recordings.  For me the goal was to hear it, though.  Better examples of Ciani's playing are to be found elsewhere.

[SonicMan46]

From a post recently here, I am considering adding Eric Heidsieck to my Beethoven sonata collection; decided to listen to Hurwitz's YouTube video on the topic (below) - he like's Todd's top choices too, i.e. Fischer, Gulda & Kempff (either mono or stereo) but at the end starts pushing Igor Levit as a 'new' top choice (in part based on his colleague Jed Distler's review HERE) - SO, decided to sample Levit on Spotify - enjoyable - Todd's ranking of him is 'third tier' - would be curious of his reasoning (probably has a thorough post that I must have missed, sorry) - and does anyone else like Levit or did the reviewers go 'overboard'?  Dave

[Mandryka]

The Ciani cycle is, by far, the worst sounding cycle in existence, and sometimes it sounds worse than poorly transferred acoustic recordings.  For me the goal was to hear it, though.  Better examples of Ciani's playing are to be found elsewhere.

(At least) one of 'em is in listenable sound, op 111, I don't know why. And I'm not going to comment on which tier to put it in!

[DavidW]

Dave I'm not Todd and I also really like Levit (in fact I almost bought it after listening to the whole set).  But I have to say that A. Fischer, Kempff and Gulda have so much more character.

[Todd]

would be curious of his reasoning (probably has a thorough post that I must have missed, sorry)

Given that Levit started with the late sonatas and then returned to do the rest later, I never did a detailed review.  Like Ashkar and so many others, Levit plays well - my memory is that his playing is quite excellent in terms of execution, if not to, say, Kikuchi level - but his interpretations didn't really offer anything especially distinctive.  I remember when the late sonatas came out, they were lauded for depth or insight, or something along those lines, it's just that I didn't hear it.  It's a perfectly fine contemporary cycle (ie, completed this century), it's just that better are available - Lucchesini, Pienaar, Mejoueva II, Say, FFG, Sohn, Kikuchi, Kosuge, Takacs.  I don't know pricing of any of the sets now, or how many can be streamed. 

I'm not Todd either, only in my daydreams, but my favorite set, Kuerti, is fourth tier for Todd. Just saying that there are different strokes for different folks.

Indeed. And Kuerti is a unique case.  The only recordings of his I don't really like are in his complete LvB cycle.  His other solo LvB is better, and his LvB and Brahms concertos rate with the best.  I heard him play a couple LvB sonatas and the Diabellis (the latter after a twenty minute micro-master class) in recital, and it was qualitatively out of this world.  His 31/1 from his cycle still stands out as one of the very greatest ever.

[SonicMan46]

Dave I'm not Todd and I also really like Levit (in fact I almost bought it after listening to the whole set).  But I have to say that A. Fischer, Kempff and Gulda have so much more character.

Hi David - still listening to Levit on Spotify, and already own the other three above, so I could easily stop now and not add anymore to my collection after your thoughts - thanks.  Also, I do have two PI boxes (always want MI & PI in this era -  ), i.e. Brautigam & Paul B-S, not sure that I need both of those?  Dave

[Todd]

Also, I do have two PI boxes (always want MI & PI in this era -  ), i.e. Brautigam & Paul B-S, not sure that I need both of those?

You do not.  PBS is exactly five orders of magnitude better than Brautigam. 

[SonicMan46]

You do not.  PBS is exactly five orders of magnitude better than Brautigam.

LOL    - guess that I have to do some comparative re-listening to my PI boxes - has been a while!  Dave

P.S. BTW, Hurwitz in the video I posted seems to adore Brautigam's performances; but does not even mention Paul?

[Todd]

P.S. BTW, Hurwitz in the video I posted seems to adore Brautigam's performances; but does not even mention Paul?

I watch Hurwitz for the shtick, not the content.

[AnotherSpin]

From a post recently here, I am considering adding Eric Heidsieck to my Beethoven sonata collection; decided to listen to Hurwitz's YouTube video on the topic (below) - he like's Todd's top choices too, i.e. Fischer, Gulda & Kempff (either mono or stereo) but at the end starts pushing Igor Levit as a 'new' top choice (in part based on his colleague Jed Distler's review HERE) - SO, decided to sample Levit on Spotify - enjoyable - Todd's ranking of him is 'third tier' - would be curious of his reasoning (probably has a thorough post that I must have missed, sorry) - and does anyone else like Levit or did the reviewers go 'overboard'?  Dave

There was a hope a few years ago that Levit would become a significant pianist, but it hasn't worked out. His recent programme albums are too pretentious and the Beethoven set is rather boring.

[Mandryka]

There was a hope a few years ago that Levit would become a significant pianist, but it hasn't worked out. His recent programme albums are too pretentious and the Beethoven set is rather boring.

I saw Levit's Beethoven cycle in concert. The crowd loved it, I was with a friend who's an advanced full time piano student here and he thought it was the bee's knees. Me - the thing I liked most were rare moments when he became less heavy and more impish.

I've also seen him once in a chamber music concert with Schubert trios, I couldn't hear anything interesting about the performances.

[AnotherSpin]

(At least) one of 'em is in listenable sound, op 111, I don't know why. And I'm not going to comment on which tier to put it in!

Started listening to Ciani's cycle in Qobuz. The immediate impression of the sound quality was terrible, but then, after about ten or fifteen minutes I caught myself thinking that it was possible to listen. I adapted, or something. Maybe I'll try it again later.

[DavidW]

There was a hope a few years ago that Levit would become a significant pianist, but it hasn't worked out. His recent programme albums are too pretentious and the Beethoven set is rather boring.

Wait a minute!?  Have Todd and AS just agreed on something!?

[Holden]

I own a number of LvB cycles and have heard (thanks to the wonderful world of streaming) many others. Of Todd's Holy Tetrarchy I heartily agree with Fischer and to the same extent, Kempff and this is supported in that I own both of those cycles. I have not heard the complete Backhaus and maybe I should remedy this fact.

I also bought, based on rave reviews, the Gulda Amadeo and quite simply just can't get fully into it despite a number of attempts. The early sonatas sound very good but the adagio of Op 2/3 gives hints of what's to come. It doesn't get a chance to breathe and right through to Op 13 there are the odd movements which are the same. From Op 14 right through to the end there are so many moments where I am thinking "For Gods sake slow down!!!" Yes, there are many great moments in this cycle but the over speedy approach in places just doesn't work for me.

That said, I am very happy with his first mono cycle on Orfeo.

[Cato]

After finishing up Saleem Ashkar's cycle, it was time to refresh the most scientifically valid, objective ranking system yet devised.  I noticed also that I had neglected to add Martin Roscoe to the rankings before.


Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Third Tier (in alphabetical order)

Claudio Arrau (1960s)
Claudio Arrau (1980s)

"Wow, Bob, just WOW!"   


I am pleased to see that we agree on the two Wilhelm's, especially my #1 favorite, Wilhelm Backhaus.  I heard his performance of the Opus 111 c. 60 years ago and followed it with the score.

I thought that his performance (on the London label) was glorious: it evoked the spirituality in the work as described by Thomas Mann in his novel Doctor Faustus.

[prémont]

I also bought, based on rave reviews, the Gulda Amadeo and quite simply just can't get fully into it despite a number of attempts. The early sonatas sound very good but the adagio of Op 2/3 gives hints of what's to come. It doesn't get a chance to breathe and right through to Op 13 there are the odd movements which are the same. From Op 14 right through to the end there are so many moments where I am thinking "For Gods sake slow down!!!" Yes, there are many great moments in this cycle but the over speedy approach in places just doesn't work for me.

I agree completely with this. Using Todds's ranking system I would put it in the third tier.