GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Maciek on December 30, 2010, 11:13:57 AM

Title: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Maciek on December 30, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
I have to admit that so far my experiences with Shchedrin have been of the hit and miss kind. Earlier today I listened to a performance of his opera Enchanted Wanderer (Очарованный странник) which I enjoyed quite a bit (despite the fact that some of it sounded hopelessly old fashioned - but quite nice nonetheless). I thought I'd check out his GMG thread, but it turned out he didn't have one yet. So now he has. 0:)

Until Jan 20th the opera can be listened to here (http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/em/concert-soir/emission.php?e_id=80000056&d_id=420001166), BTW. (Click headphones icon to the right.)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on December 30, 2010, 11:20:36 AM
Thanks for starting this thread, Maciek, and for the link to the opera.  My experience with his work is limited, but one piece has really grabbed me, his Second Piano Concerto (1966), which is "filler" on the disc below.  I bought the CD mainly for the two Shostakovich concertos, but this was an unexpected treat: very much influenced by jazz, especially in the last movement.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: PaulSC on December 30, 2010, 11:47:41 AM
To continue the theme, my experience with Schedrin has been limited and mixed. Recently his cycle of piano Preludes and Fugues was pointed out to me in another thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17709.msg476719.html#msg476719), and I've enjoyed what I've heard online. There's also a second similar collection entitled Polyphonic Notebook.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: jurajjak on December 31, 2010, 12:51:07 AM
My favorite Shchedrin work (so far) is his ballet The Seagull--very atmospheric, intense stuff, never avant-garde but thoroughly modern. It is available on a Melodiya CD.

His concertos for orchestra are also good (especially the 3rd one).

andrew
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:01:43 AM
A bit surprised he isn't listed here. I've mentioned him in the Schnittke thread because of Stihira, Hymn for the Millennium of the Christianization of Russia, in which male cellists hum the liturgical theme whose variation the work is based upon. A very nice composition, in a way a bellwether of change.

Anyone else who likes Ščedrin's music? 8)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2011, 07:08:28 AM
Quote from: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:01:43 AM
A bit surprised he isn't listed here. I've mentioned him in the Schnittke thread because of Stihira, Hymn for the Millennium of the Christianization of Russia, in which male cellist hum the liturgical theme whose variation the work is based upon. A very nice composition, in a way a bellwether of change.

Anyone else who likes Ščedrin's music? 8)

I especially like his Symphony No 1 (Melodiya) - a great discovery for me in the days of LP when it appeared on an EMI/Melodiya LP coupled with Miaskovsky's 23rd Symphony. I used to often take this record out of the record library in London and enjoyed both works enormously.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: karlhenning on April 19, 2011, 07:12:37 AM
Quote from: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:01:43 AM
A bit surprised he isn't listed here. I've mentioned him in the Schnittke thread because of Stihira, Hymn for the Millennium of the Christianization of Russia, in which male cellist hum the liturgical theme whose variation the work is based upon. A very nice composition, in a way a bellwether of change.

Anyone else who likes Ščedrin's music? 8)

But . . . why Czechify his name? : )
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on April 19, 2011, 07:12:55 AM
Sylph, just merged this thread with the previous Shchedrin one. Carry on!

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:18:50 AM
Quote from: Apollon on April 19, 2011, 07:12:37 AM
But . . . why Czechify his name? : )

I actually thought you might appreciate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_transliteration

Anglicizing or scientificizing – well, the latter must be more correct, no? 8)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:19:24 AM
Quote from: Brewski on April 19, 2011, 07:12:55 AM
Sylph, just merged this thread with the previous Shchedrin one. Carry on!

--Bruce

Oops! I did a search, but nothing popped up. :o And yes, as Shchedrin. :P
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: karlhenning on April 19, 2011, 07:37:20 AM
Quote from: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 07:19:24 AM
Oops! I did a search, but nothing popped up. :o And yes, as Shchedrin. :P

Sometimes the search functionality is a bit dodgy here : )
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on April 19, 2011, 07:49:42 AM
The search function observes diacritical markings scrupulously--for better or worse. Just did a search for "Bartók" and came up with 7 pages of posts, but for "Bartok" (without the accent), it shows 21.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: karlhenning on April 19, 2011, 07:51:09 AM
Yet, it still returns no matches at all for Berlioz . . . .
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on April 19, 2011, 07:55:31 AM
Now that's quite odd...  :o  ???

I'll drop a note to Rob about that, thanks.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 08:02:05 AM
I haven't checked, but perhaps to me nothing appeared as a result because I wasn't on the main page when I did the search. Maybe the engine thought I was just looking through a particular thread or a subforum.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sylph on April 19, 2011, 08:02:32 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 19, 2011, 07:08:28 AM
I especially like his Symphony No 1 (Melodiya) - a great discovery for me in the days of LP when it appeared on an EMI/Melodiya LP coupled with Miaskovsky's 23rd Symphony. I used to often take this record out of the record library in London and enjoyed both works enormously.

I love that disc too!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2011, 08:05:52 AM
Here (if it appears) is the CD I especially like. Apart from the Symphony 'The Chimes' (Second Concerto for Orchestra) is very good and I like his music for 'The Humpbacked Horse'. I did not enjoy Symphony No 2 (Chandos) nearly as much as Symphony No 1. The exciting Toccata second movement has a beautiful Miaskovsky-like flute passage in its central section and at the end of Symphony No 1 it seems like the music is leading up to a grand climax - but instead of that it disintegrates - a very powerful moment in a fine lyrical score which should appeal to admirers of Prokofiev, Shebalin, Miaskovsky, Weinberg or Shostakovich - although the style is different. The First Symphony has a darkly searching quality which I find very appealing.


[asin]B000023ZSA[/asin]
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Lethevich on April 19, 2011, 08:10:50 AM
Quote from: Brewski on April 19, 2011, 07:55:31 AM
Now that's quite odd...  :o  ???

I'll drop a note to Rob about that, thanks.

If it involves too much work, it may just be worth replacing the software search with a Google one - it's very effective.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on April 19, 2011, 08:17:35 AM
Yes, that might be a good idea--thanks, I'll mention it to him.

Just did the Berlioz search myself, and sure enough--nothing. Very weird...

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Sandra on April 20, 2011, 05:17:08 AM
I'm glad to see Shchedrin getting wider recognition. It's impossible to place him up there with Shostakovich, Khachaturian, and Prokofiev.. but his voice definitely adds to the "soviet experience"... He ranks more closely with composers like Kabalevsky and Popov.

His piano concerto no 3 is pretty original - http://youtu.be/q2Xf6TVtjJw  Really liked it!

Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: The new erato on April 20, 2011, 08:25:44 AM
Quote from: Apollon on April 19, 2011, 07:37:20 AM
Sometimes the search functionality is a bit dodgy here : )
If only that were the only thing dodgy around.....
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: PaulR on April 22, 2011, 07:14:21 PM
About a year and a half ago, I played the Carmen Suite at school and didn't have a real positive impression of the piece.  I don't know why I didn't like it, perhaps it was more the fact that it was getting closer and closer to my graduation, and I was just a bit burnt out of school orchestra's or whatever.  But regardless of the reason, I dismissed it.  The performance wasn't the best, because a mixture that it didn't comprise the best players at the school, and the others already putting up a performance in the regular orchestra.  (This was a string orchestra with the orchestra directors grad assistant).

Anyways, this past Monday, i saw a Naxos recording of the same piece and decided to buy it.  It was mostly for nostalgia purposes, and see if my feelings of it have improved.  I had low expectations for the piece, and figured I would have the same reaction towards the piece now than I did when I played it.  But to my surprise, I enjoyed it.   The melodies of Carmen have always seemed to get stuck in my head for a period of time, and I also was fond of the melodies found in the suite.  Perhaps it was due to my enjoyment of the source material Shchedrin used that got me to enjoy the piece, but whatever the reason, it got me to want to listen to more of Shchedrin. 
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2013, 08:52:40 PM
I'm just starting to get into Shchedrin again after quite a long hiatus. The result of this resurgence and interest has come from two ballets: Anna Karenina (1971) and The Seagull (1980).
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2013, 08:53:37 PM
A write-up on Anna Karenina -

Since Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet, the authors of ballets, particularly in Russia, have not been afraid to translate great literary subjects into dance. Tolstoy's novel is another story of forbidden and doomed love: the married Anna loses everything because of her adulterous love in this tragic classic. Shchedrin, a fine composer, became a composer of ballets because of his marriage to Maya Plisetskaya, a prima ballerina for the Bolshoi. This sweeping, romantic score was written for her to portray the most touching heroine in all of Russian literature. The music darkens and becomes more dissonantly oppressive as Anna becomes more and more hopelessly trapped by her situation. It ends starkly with a tour de force of orchestration, as Shchedrin manages the most naturalistic and authentic-sounding railroad engine imitation in all of music: This train strikes Anna with a sound of almost brutal ugliness, and the train sounds recede with an indifferent mechanical soullessness which reflects how Anna has been abandoned by society. This is excellent score, in a style best described as "post-Prokofiev"; its 1972 premiere in Moscow was one of the grand musical events of the later Soviet era. There are also echoes of Tchaikovsky, the preeminent Russian ballet composer. "Although I borrowed some elements from the music of Tchaikovsky," Shchedrin has stated, "it was never my intention to fully retain its style or resort to a mere compilation. The subject of the novel, its essence and heart of the conflict are understandable to our contemporaries. What I undertook, therefore, was to synthesize the external characteristics of the times -- the costumes, manners and intonations -- with a modern viewpoint of Tolstoy's novel."

[Taken from All Music Guide]
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Scion7 on September 13, 2014, 04:03:29 PM
Just starting to investigate his music / chamber pieces.  Interesting. 
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: snyprrr on September 13, 2014, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on September 13, 2014, 04:03:29 PM
Just starting to investigate his music / chamber pieces.  Interesting.

I'm going to need recommendations for a sceptic- me. I don't trust I'm going to hear anything by him that I'll like. Am I wrong?

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2013, 08:52:40 PM
I'm just starting to get into Shchedrin again after quite a long hiatus. The result of this resurgence and interest has come from two ballets: Anna Karenina (1971) and The Seagull (1980).

Quote from: PaulR on April 22, 2011, 07:14:21 PM
About a year and a half ago, I played the Carmen Suite at school and didn't have a real positive impression of the piece.  I don't know why I didn't like it, perhaps it was more the fact that it was getting closer and closer to my graduation, and I was just a bit burnt out of school orchestra's or whatever.  But regardless of the reason, I dismissed it.  The performance wasn't the best, because a mixture that it didn't comprise the best players at the school, and the others already putting up a performance in the regular orchestra.  (This was a string orchestra with the orchestra directors grad assistant).

Anyways, this past Monday, i saw a Naxos recording of the same piece and decided to buy it.  It was mostly for nostalgia purposes, and see if my feelings of it have improved.  I had low expectations for the piece, and figured I would have the same reaction towards the piece now than I did when I played it.  But to my surprise, I enjoyed it.   The melodies of Carmen have always seemed to get stuck in my head for a period of time, and I also was fond of the melodies found in the suite.  Perhaps it was due to my enjoyment of the source material Shchedrin used that got me to enjoy the piece, but whatever the reason, it got me to want to listen to more of Shchedrin. 

Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on September 14, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
Quote from: Sandra on April 20, 2011, 05:17:08 AM
I'm glad to see Shchedrin getting wider recognition. It's impossible to place him up there with Shostakovich, Khachaturian, and Prokofiev.. but his voice definitely adds to the "soviet experience"... He ranks more closely with composers like Kabalevsky and Popov.

His piano concerto no 3 is pretty original - http://youtu.be/q2Xf6TVtjJw  Really liked it!

I rate his first symphony very highly. I consider Popov to be a very fine composer whose works should also be much better known.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on September 14, 2014, 10:30:21 AM
Quote from: Soapy Molloy on September 14, 2014, 09:16:59 AM
This was my Purchase Of The Year (whenever it was that I bought it. ::))  I seem to recall playing it more or less continuously for about a week after first hearing.  Still gets regular outings.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519y94kPRHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Shchedrin Concertos for Orchestra 4 & 5 etc.
Karabits / Bournemouth SO

Oh, I have that but have not played it yet. Will now! Thanks.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: snyprrr on September 15, 2014, 06:20:36 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 14, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
I rate his first symphony very highly. I consider Popov to be a very fine composer whose works should also be much better known.

always a good word from the 'molen (whatever happened to your other half Dundonnell?)


Quote from: Soapy Molloy on September 14, 2014, 09:16:59 AM
This was my Purchase Of The Year (whenever it was that I bought it. ::))  I seem to recall playing it more or less continuously for about a week after first hearing.  Still gets regular outings.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519y94kPRHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Shchedrin Concertos for Orchestra 4 & 5 etc.
Karabits / Bournemouth SO

ok, Concertos for Orchestra always sound like a winner- 5 of them eh? wow

ok
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Karl Henning on September 15, 2014, 06:21:56 AM
They're bite-sized.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on September 15, 2014, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 15, 2014, 06:20:36 AM
always a good word from the 'molen (whatever happened to your other

Sadly doesn't post here anymore. I miss his contributions.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Quote from: Soapy Molloy on September 14, 2014, 09:16:59 AM
This was my Purchase Of The Year (whenever it was that I bought it. ::))  I seem to recall playing it more or less continuously for about a week after first hearing.  Still gets regular outings.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519y94kPRHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Shchedrin Concertos for Orchestra 4 & 5 etc.
Karabits / Bournemouth SO

That's a good recording. I haven't played it in some time.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2019, 01:57:20 PM
I've now removed this from the Shebalin thread where I originally posted it  ::)
I greatly like Shchedrin's powerful 1st Symphony which I've known from the good old days of the Melodiya/EMI LP. I haven't been nearly as impressed by anything else by him and found Symphony 2 to be a rather dreary affair. Anyway I was rather impressed with the dark and mournful Shostakovich-like Cello Concerto on You Tube and in view of the positive comments about the Seagull above I thought I'd give this a go and have ordered it:
[asin]B00004YU8R[/asin]
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on January 18, 2019, 04:15:14 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 18, 2019, 01:57:20 PM
I've now removed this from the Shebalin thread where I originally posted it  ::)
I greatly like Shchedrin's powerful 1st Symphony which I've known from the good old days of the Melodiya/EMI LP. I haven't been nearly as impressed by anything else by him and found Symphony 2 to be a rather dreary affair. Anyway I was rather impressed with the dark and mournful Shostakovich-like Cello Concerto on You Tube and in view of the positive comments about the Seagull above I thought I'd give this a go and have ordered it:
[asin]B00004YU8R[/asin]

It looks interesting, Jeffrey. I will check it out in due course. As you, I also know his 2 symphonies, being the No. 1 an authentically riveting piece, whilst the 2nd much less engaging (besides the music itself, I think its form of a sort of Preludes wasn't a good idea either). The Concerto for orchestra No. 3 Old Russian Circus Music is a favorite of mine too. Oh, I almost forget the hilarious Carmen Suite.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2019, 12:11:00 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 18, 2019, 04:15:14 PM
It looks interesting, Jeffrey. I will check it out in due course. As you, I also know his 2 symphonies, being the No. 1 an authentically riveting piece, whilst the 2nd much less engaging (besides the music itself, I think its form of a sort of Preludes wasn't a good idea either). The Concerto for orchestra No. 3 Old Russian Circus Music is a favorite of mine too. Oh, I almost forget the hilarious Carmen Suite.
Thanks Cesar. I thought it looked interesting too and it's worth at least checking out the opening of the Cello Concerto on You Tube which really held my attention. I have the Naxos CD above with the Concerto 4 and 5 for years and yet never played it! In fact it's still in its cellophane wrapper. That will be rectified soon.
Must look out for Concerto No.3. I think I had the Carmen suite with the Little Humpbacked Horse and an old audio cassette.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on January 19, 2019, 06:53:21 AM
Agreed with the symphony No. 1 and Cello Concerto sentiment.  I also liked some of his early piano concertos which have a strong sense of Prokofiev/Shostakovich mid century Soviet music which I love.  Also enjoyable to me was some work about the 500th anniversary of Christianity or something like that.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2019, 11:27:33 PM
Quote from: relm1 on January 19, 2019, 06:53:21 AM
Agreed with the symphony No. 1 and Cello Concerto sentiment.  I also liked some of his early piano concertos which have a strong sense of Prokofiev/Shostakovich mid century Soviet music which I love.  Also enjoyable to me was some work about the 500th anniversary of Christianity or something like that.
Am looking forward to receiving the Cello Concerto and Seagull Suite CD from Ondine.

Am currently enjoying this performance which I downloaded - an alternative version to Svetlanov's CD release.
The last movement, taken slower, is rather more moving in this (presumably older) recording:
(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2020, 07:48:53 AM
Right, back to the Shchedrin thread!
:)

Two fine releases of Anosov's performance:
[/img]
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: T. D. on April 11, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I really like Shchedrin's opera Dead Souls, but I'm also a Gogol enthusiast. It seems slightly unfortunate that the opera includes considerable material from the sometimes maligned (see Vladimir Nabokov's Nikolai Gogol) Volume 2, but it's still fun.
Don't know about the aesthetic merits of Carmen Suite, but I enjoy the Naxos recording.
Shchedrin is an outstanding pianist. I had recordings of his Preludes and Fugues and Polyphonic Notebook, but my interest faded and I think I sold them.

Over the years on various forums, I've read some politically oriented criticism of R.S., seemingly for achieving prominence via currying favor with the Kremlin...I don't know enough to evaluate the situation.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 12, 2020, 01:37:50 AM
Quote from: T. D. on April 11, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I really like Shchedrin's opera Dead Souls, but I'm also a Gogol enthusiast. It seems slightly unfortunate that the opera includes considerable material from the sometimes maligned (see Vladimir Nabokov's Nikolai Gogol) Volume 2, but it's still fun.
Don't know about the aesthetic merits of Carmen Suite, but I enjoy the Naxos recording.
Shchedrin is an outstanding pianist. I had recordings of his Preludes and Fugues and Polyphonic Notebook, but my interest faded and I think I sold them.

Over the years on various forums, I've read some politically oriented criticism of R.S., seemingly for achieving prominence via currying favor with the Kremlin...I don't know enough to evaluate the situation.
There was a somewhat embittered exchange between Shchedrin and the music critic David Fanning:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070101045513/http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/sovrev/shchfan.htm

Here's Shchedrin during what David Fanning describes as his 'leather jacket phase':
(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 12, 2020, 03:01:54 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 12, 2020, 01:37:50 AM
There was a somewhat embittered exchange between Shchedrin and the music critic David Fanning:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070101045513/http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/sovrev/shchfan.htm

Here's Shchedrin during what David Fanning describes as his 'leather jacket phase':


Very interesting to read those two 'critiques'.  I must admit I have always enjoyed Shchedrin's music from the time I bought an original Melodiya LP of "Naughty Ditties" (or however you wish to translate it!) from the Soviet Bookshop on Charing Cross Road(was it there?) around 1980.  For sure Shchedrin's reply to "just criticism"(!?) is rather defensive by why wouldn't he be.  As be says; "we've all made compromises".  I think it is very easy to make judgements about artists and the choices they made whether Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.  Some of course were fanatical believers in the regimes, many simply sought a way to get by - and how many of us can be certain we would not choose the same facilitating path.  Certainly Fanning comes across as being a bit too much on the moral high ground for me..... 

For years I chose not to listen to any Tikhon Khrennikov because of his alignment with the Soviet state.  Then I heard the disc of his 3 Symphonies and they are really rather good;

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Sept04/Khrennikov_SC029.jpg)

for sure not utterly original but certainly worth a listen if the style is of interest.  Does it diminish his culpability for anything else he did - for sure not, but it must be for an individual listener to judge the 'worth' of an piece of Art against its creator's wider moral compass.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on April 12, 2020, 06:26:27 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 12, 2020, 03:01:54 AM
Very interesting to read those two 'critiques'.  I must admit I have always enjoyed Shchedrin's music from the time I bought an original Melodiya LP of "Naughty Ditties" (or however you wish to translate it!) from the Soviet Bookshop on Charing Cross Road(was it there?) around 1980.  For sure Shchedrin's reply to "just criticism"(!?) is rather defensive by why wouldn't he be.  As be says; "we've all made compromises".  I think it is very easy to make judgements about artists and the choices they made whether Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.  Some of course were fanatical believers in the regimes, many simply sought a way to get by - and how many of us can be certain we would not choose the same facilitating path.  Certainly Fanning comes across as being a bit too much on the moral high ground for me..... 

For years I chose not to listen to any Tikhon Khrennikov because of his alignment with the Soviet state.  Then I heard the disc of his 3 Symphonies and they are really rather good;

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Sept04/Khrennikov_SC029.jpg)

for sure not utterly original but certainly worth a listen if the style is of interest.  Does it diminish his culpability for anything else he did - for sure not, but it must be for an individual listener to judge the 'worth' of an piece of Art against its creator's wider moral compass.

You made some good points.  Remind me of what Khrennikov is culpable for other than aligning with the Soviet state?
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Maestro267 on April 12, 2020, 09:42:24 AM
I'd say it was considerably more than merely "aligning with the Soviet state". Stalin and Zhdanov appointed Khrennikov as Secretary of the Union of Soviet Composers, a post he held for over 40 years, from 1948 (a pivotal year if you know the history of Shostakovich et al.) until the USSR collapsed in 1991.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 12, 2020, 10:56:11 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 12, 2020, 03:01:54 AM
Very interesting to read those two 'critiques'.  I must admit I have always enjoyed Shchedrin's music from the time I bought an original Melodiya LP of "Naughty Ditties" (or however you wish to translate it!) from the Soviet Bookshop on Charing Cross Road(was it there?) around 1980.  For sure Shchedrin's reply to "just criticism"(!?) is rather defensive by why wouldn't he be.  As be says; "we've all made compromises".  I think it is very easy to make judgements about artists and the choices they made whether Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.  Some of course were fanatical believers in the regimes, many simply sought a way to get by - and how many of us can be certain we would not choose the same facilitating path.  Certainly Fanning comes across as being a bit too much on the moral high ground for me..... 

For years I chose not to listen to any Tikhon Khrennikov because of his alignment with the Soviet state.  Then I heard the disc of his 3 Symphonies and they are really rather good;

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Sept04/Khrennikov_SC029.jpg)

for sure not utterly original but certainly worth a listen if the style is of interest.  Does it diminish his culpability for anything else he did - for sure not, but it must be for an individual listener to judge the 'worth' of an piece of Art against its creator's wider moral compass.
I had an unusual experience on New Year's Day 1986. I was in the USSR on holiday with a group of eight friends. We'd agreed to go to the Bolshoi Ballet but the others were still hung over from the night before. So I went on my own. The ballet was pleasant enough but fairly banal. I didn't recognise what it was and the programme notes were all in Russian. Them, at the end, a spotlight focused on one of the boxes in the Bolshoi and there he was! Tikhon Khrenninikov! I recognised him from photos. So I have actually seen him. I have that CD as well and regard the Second Symphony as catchy and memorable and, in its slow movement, not lacking in depth.

PS Yes, I was very familiar with that Soviet bookshop on the Charing Cross Road and made many great LP discoveries there. Miaskovsky's 11th Symphony conducted by Dudarova for starters.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 14, 2020, 03:20:31 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 12, 2020, 10:56:11 AM
I had an unusual experience on New Year's Day 1986. I was in the USSR on holiday with a group of eight friends. We'd agreed to go to the Bolshoi Ballet but the others were still hung over from the night before. So I went on my own. The ballet was pleasant enough but fairly banal. I didn't recognise what it was and the programme notes were all in Russian. Them, at the end, a spotlight focused on one of the boxes in the Bolshoi and there he was! Tikhon Khrenninikov! I recognised him from photos. So I have actually seen him. I have that CD as well and regard the Second Symphony as catchy and memorable and, in its slow movement, not lacking in depth.

PS Yes, I was very familiar with that Soviet bookshop on the Charing Cross Road and made many great LP discoveries there. Miaskovsky's 11th Symphony conducted by Dudarova for starters.

Proof of how powerful smell is as far as memory is concerned......  When I used to buy original Melodiya LP's from the Soviet Bookshop I remember that they had a very distinct actually rather unpleasant smell about them.  That and the fact that they came in just a plastic inner sleeve which made them a right royal pain to get in and out of the cardboard jacket without everything rucking up.  A first world problem if ever there was! (also the pressings could be pretty dodgy too)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2020, 04:05:57 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 14, 2020, 03:20:31 AM
Proof of how powerful smell is as far as memory is concerned......  When I used to buy original Melodiya LP's from the Soviet Bookshop I remember that they had a very distinct actually rather unpleasant smell about them.  That and the fact that they came in just a plastic inner sleeve which made them a right royal pain to get in and out of the cardboard jacket without everything rucking up.  A first world problem if ever there was! (also the pressings could be pretty dodgy too)
I recall that the vinyl was often very hard and thicker than usual. Yes, Kabalevsky's 4th Symphony came in a white plain cardboard sleeve I recall. Shchedrin's First Symphony featured the 'leather jacket' image that David Fanning highlighted.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Irons on April 14, 2020, 11:53:25 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 14, 2020, 04:05:57 AM
I recall that the vinyl was often very hard and thicker than usual. Yes, Kabalevsky's 4th Symphony came in a white plain cardboard sleeve I recall. Shchedrin's First Symphony featured the 'leather jacket' image that David Fanning highlighted.

What is good for the goose.........

Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on April 15, 2020, 05:48:02 AM
Quote from: Irons on April 14, 2020, 11:53:25 PM
What is good for the goose.........
Excellent!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 15, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 15, 2020, 05:48:02 AM
Excellent!

That Heldenleben is the one with the big trumpet split that Karajan reckoned no one would notice.......
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 16, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Well, it's time resurrect this thread as the last post was about Strauss with no mention of Shchedrin whatever. :-\ Anyway, I love this composer's music and have really come to admire many of his works. I love ALL five of the Concertos for Orchestra. These are such remarkable pieces. Everyone talks about the ballet Carmen Suite and while I do enjoy it, it makes wonder whether they've heard his other four ballets: The Humpbacked Horse, Anna Karenina, The Seagull or The Lady with a Lapdog (provocative title!)? The only one I had a bit difficulty appreciating in its entirety was The Seagull. I should come back to this work. I've loved all of the concerti I've heard so far: Piano Concertos Nos. 1-4, Cello Concerto and Concerto Cantabile. The first symphony is fantastic, but I'm less sure about the 2nd as it didn't really grab me, but I think I should give the Rozhdestvensky recording a listen (I own the Sinaisky recording on Chandos). Some other fantastic works: Russian Photographs, The Sealed Angel, Self-Portrait and Stikhira. I'm afraid I don't know the solo piano and chamber music, but I do plan on rectifying this as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 16, 2020, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: T. D. on April 11, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I really like Shchedrin's opera Dead Souls, but I'm also a Gogol enthusiast. It seems slightly unfortunate that the opera includes considerable material from the sometimes maligned (see Vladimir Nabokov's Nikolai Gogol) Volume 2, but it's still fun.
Don't know about the aesthetic merits of Carmen Suite, but I enjoy the Naxos recording.
Shchedrin is an outstanding pianist. I had recordings of his Preludes and Fugues and Polyphonic Notebook, but my interest faded and I think I sold them.

Over the years on various forums, I've read some politically oriented criticism of R.S., seemingly for achieving prominence via currying favor with the Kremlin...I don't know enough to evaluate the situation.

Knowing a composer's political views doesn't really change how I feel about the music and it's a damn shame when someone uses it as a criticism against them and then do a disservice to the composer by not even listening to any of their music. The Carmen Suite is, undoubtedly, the most recorded Shchedrin work from what I've seen and I do think it's popularity overshadows what are, IMHO, even finer works. I haven't heard any of Shchedrin's operas, but I don't really have much interest in them. I do, however, own a recording of The Enchanted Wanderer, but I think my reasoning for buying it back then was that I got it at a ridiculous discount, which I couldn't pass up. Have you heard any of the symphonies, ballets or concerti?
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Maestro267 on June 17, 2020, 04:41:54 AM
How much of the Carmen Suite is Shchedrin and how much of it is Bizet? I could've sworn I heard part of it was straight-up Bizet.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 17, 2020, 05:13:02 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 17, 2020, 04:41:54 AM
How much of the Carmen Suite is Shchedrin and how much of it is Bizet? I could've sworn I heard part of it was straight-up Bizet.

think of it as ARRANGED by Shchedrin.  The re-orchestrating changes the sound world of the piece completely.  I don't have a score to know if the music follows the same dramatic sequence as in the opera or whether Shchedrin has "re-purposed" any of it.  Also, I am not clear if there are are linking passages that are original Shchedrin - if so they are somewhat overshadowed by the familiar Bizet tunes.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 17, 2020, 07:38:02 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 17, 2020, 04:41:54 AMHow much of the Carmen Suite is Shchedrin and how much of it is Bizet? I could've sworn I heard part of it was straight-up Bizet.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 17, 2020, 05:13:02 AMThink of it as ARRANGED by Shchedrin.  The re-orchestrating changes the sound world of the piece completely.  I don't have a score to know if the music follows the same dramatic sequence as in the opera or whether Shchedrin has "re-purposed" any of it.  Also, I am not clear if there are are linking passages that are original Shchedrin - if so they are somewhat overshadowed by the familiar Bizet tunes.

A very good question, which Roasted Swan answered astutely. Yes, the Carmen Suite is a re-orchestration of the Bizet work and it includes all of the bells and whistles in Shchedrin's compositional toolbox at that time. I don't think this work is fully representative of the composer, but does show how he can take a piece of music written by another composer, dig his nails into the musical fabric of the work and, ultimately, put his own individualistic stamp on the music. Think of Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' Piano Quartet No. 1. The more this work progresses, the more zany it gets as Schoenberg did exactly what Shchedrin did in that he went over-the-top with his orchestration and I must say, it worked rather well.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Maestro267 on June 17, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
So Shchedrin's most famous work is, by and large, not even his own original music? That's really unfortunate. I'll probably look at some of his original compositions in order to get a flavour for him, rather than dressing-up another composer's music.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 17, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 17, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
So Shchedrin's most famous work is, by and large, not even his own original music? That's really unfortunate. I'll probably look at some of his original compositions in order to get a flavour for him, rather than dressing-up another composer's music.

If you mean 'famous' in that it's recorded the most, then, yes, it looks to be very possible BUT if you simply listened to the Carmen Suite and that's it, you not only did yourself a disservice but the composer as well. Check out the Concertos for Orchestra Nos. 1-5.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 17, 2020, 09:37:22 PM
Speaking of the Carmen Suite:

https://www.youtube.com/v/48LZAYRtsr8
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 11:33:51 AM
I've been doing a somewhat mini-Shchedrin listening marathon and enjoying the experience immensely. I have decided for Cesar's benefit to leave a little bit of feedback on his ballet The Humpbacked Horse besides just saying it was riveting (which, indeed, it was). :) One of the things that struck me in Act II was how there was definitely some Ravel Daphnis et Chloé influence in this particular act's music. You can definitely hear it in the orchestration. I would say as a whole that The Humpbacked Horse is one of those fairy-tale ballets not too far removed from what Stravinsky was doing with say Le Baiser de la fée or Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet, which Daverz pointed out in the 'Listening' thread. But where it's quite different is in the treatment of the rhythm, but also, of course, it's harmonic content. Considering Shchedrin was quite a capable pianist himself, it's no surprise that many of the twists found in this ballet are done so harmonically. Of course, this ballet is quite far removed from the more angsty excursions of his next full ballet Anna Karenina. I think this work overall would actually make a fine introduction to the composer. It's accessible, easier on the ears but there are some nice twists here and there that lets you know that the composer is having a bit fun pulling some strings here and there with the music and where it takes the listener. So, in summary, you NEED this ballet in your collection, Cesar! Actually, anyone that's a Russophile like I am, needs this ballet in their collection, IMHO.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 24, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
With such an enticing description, you won this time, John.  >:D

I'll be acquiring and listening to The Humpbacked Horse in due time.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 24, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
With such an enticing description, you won this time, John.  >:D

I'll be acquiring and listening to The Humpbacked Horse in due time.

Thankfully, no one wins in this but the music itself and as long as you're listening, then this is all that matters at the end of the day. 8)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 24, 2020, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 01:41:26 PM
Thankfully, no one wins in this but the music itself and as long as you're listening, then this is all that matters at the end of the day. 8)

I couldn't disagree with this.  0:)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 11:25:58 AM
Copied over from the WAYLTN thread:
'Stihira' by Shchedrin.
'Hymn for the Millenary of the Christianisation of Russia'.
A marvellous work and my favourite composition of his apart from the 1st Symphony. It is very Russian Orthodox sounding (it is largely orchestral although the theme is initially hummed by the male cellists) and should appeal to admirers of Hovhaness and Mussorgsky's 'Boris Godunov' (Coronation Scene). It is bizarrely coupled with violin concertos by Glazunov and Prokofiev but the link must be Rostropovich for whom it was written. Much use of chimes and gongs. It lasts 22 mins:

(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 30, 2020, 12:03:34 PM
In March I heard that Ms. Mutter was infected with Covid-19. I hope she is getting better now.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 11:25:58 AM
Copied over from the WAYLTN thread:
'Stihira' by Shchedrin.
'Hymn for the Millenary of the Christianisation of Russia'.
A marvellous work and my favourite composition of his apart from the 1st Symphony. It is very Russian Orthodox sounding (it is largely orchestral although the theme is initially hummed by the male cellists) and should appeal to admirers of Hovhaness and Mussorgsky's 'Boris Godunov' (Coronation Scene). It is bizarrely coupled with violin concertos by Glazunov and Prokofiev but the link must be Rostropovich for whom it was written. Much use of chimes and gongs. It lasts 22 mins:

(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 12:13:38 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 30, 2020, 12:03:34 PM
In March I heard that Ms. Mutter was infected with Covid-19. I hope she is getting better now.
Me too. She looks very young on the cover image.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on April 30, 2021, 04:16:37 PM
I'm listening to Anna Karenina, the full ballet right now and thoroughly loving it!  It's so routed in Russian tradition with equal parts Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, and Shostakovitch.  How could anyone not love this????  The work was composed from 1970-1 and I highly recommend it!  It's evocative, energetic, atmospheric and dramatic.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Quote from: relm1 on April 30, 2021, 04:16:37 PM
I'm listening to Anna Karenina, the full ballet right now and thoroughly loving it!  It's so routed in Russian tradition with equal parts Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, and Shostakovitch.  How could anyone not love this????  The work was composed from 1970-1 and I highly recommend it!  It's evocative, energetic, atmospheric and dramatic.

Yes, it's probably his most popular ballet, too. A fine work no doubt. I was less impressed with The Seagull as it felt kind of faceless. The Little Humpbacked Horse, the Carmen Suite and The Lady with the Lapdog were also quite good. I think I just listed all of his ballets...lol. Have you heard his Cello Concerto? I consider this one of his crowning achievements within all of the works I've heard so far, which has been many since I did a little survey of his music last year (or the year before). I haven't really heard anything of his chamber music that is of interest and I still have yet to get around to his solo piano music.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on May 01, 2021, 05:43:03 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Yes, it's probably his most popular ballet, too. A fine work no doubt. I was less impressed with The Seagull as it felt kind of faceless. The Little Humpbacked Horse, the Carmen Suite and The Lady with the Lapdog were also quite good. I think I just listed all of his ballets...lol. Have you heard his Cello Concerto? I consider this one of his crowning achievements within all of the works I've heard so far, which has been many since I did a little survey of his music last year (or the year before). I haven't really heard anything of his chamber music that is of interest and I still have yet to get around to his solo piano music.

I haven't heard his cello concerto so will add to my list.  Have you heard piano concertos or symphonies?  I remember liking the earlier soviet era ones quite a bit.  Obviously the shadow of his predecessors looms large but that's not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2021, 06:29:41 AM
Quote from: relm1 on May 01, 2021, 05:43:03 AM
I haven't heard his cello concerto so will add to my list.  Have you heard piano concertos or symphonies?  I remember liking the earlier soviet era ones quite a bit.  Obviously the shadow of his predecessors looms large but that's not a bad thing.

I liked his Symphony No. 1 quite a bit, but I didn't think much of Symphony No. 2. Is there another one? I have heard several of the piano concerti and I recall enjoying them, although I don't think I've heard the latest one. He's certainly a fascinating composer in that he works in many different styles. I particularly like all of his Concerti for Orchestra. There are several of these --- five in all, I believe. Check these out, too!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on May 04, 2021, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2021, 06:29:41 AM
I liked his Symphony No. 1 quite a bit, but I didn't think much of Symphony No. 2. Is there another one? I have heard several of the piano concerti and I recall enjoying them, although I don't think I've heard the latest one. He's certainly a fascinating composer in that he works in many different styles. I particularly like all of his Concerti for Orchestra. There are several of these --- five in all, I believe. Check these out, too!
.
The stand-out work for me is Symphony No.1, of which I own both (AFAIK) recordings. Like you I was very disappointed by Symphony No.2. I wish that Chandos would record Symphony No.1
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on May 04, 2021, 05:58:33 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2021, 06:29:41 AM
I liked his Symphony No. 1 quite a bit, but I didn't think much of Symphony No. 2. Is there another one? I have heard several of the piano concerti and I recall enjoying them, although I don't think I've heard the latest one. He's certainly a fascinating composer in that he works in many different styles. I particularly like all of his Concerti for Orchestra. There are several of these --- five in all, I believe. Check these out, too!

I believe there is a third symphony but quite a few years separate No. 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 01, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 11:33:51 AM
I've been doing a somewhat mini-Shchedrin listening marathon and enjoying the experience immensely. I have decided for Cesar's benefit to leave a little bit of feedback on his ballet The Humpbacked Horse besides just saying it was riveting (which, indeed, it was). :) One of the things that struck me in Act II was how there was definitely some Ravel Daphnis et Chloé influence in this particular act's music. You can definitely hear it in the orchestration. I would say as a whole that The Humpbacked Horse is one of those fairy-tale ballets not too far removed from what Stravinsky was doing with say Le Baiser de la fée or Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet, which Daverz pointed out in the 'Listening' thread. But where it's quite different is in the treatment of the rhythm, but also, of course, it's harmonic content. Considering Shchedrin was quite a capable pianist himself, it's no surprise that many of the twists found in this ballet are done so harmonically. Of course, this ballet is quite far removed from the more angsty excursions of his next full ballet Anna Karenina. I think this work overall would actually make a fine introduction to the composer. It's accessible, easier on the ears but there are some nice twists here and there that lets you know that the composer is having a bit fun pulling some strings here and there with the music and where it takes the listener. So, in summary, you NEED this ballet in your collection, Cesar! Actually, anyone that's a Russophile like I am, needs this ballet in their collection, IMHO.

Almost a year after your insightful post, I'm listening to this incomparably wonderful ballet (act I). Holy cow, what an extraordinary composition this is!! I'm astounded by how colourful and magical it sounds. As you say, there are some hints of Prokofiev and Stravinsky, but this work has distinctiveness of its own. Yet another striking find in this year.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 01, 2021, 07:51:44 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 01, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Almost a year after your insightful post, I'm listening to this incomparably wonderful ballet (act I). Holy cow, what an extraordinary composition this is!! I'm astounded by how colourful and magical it sounds. As you say, there are some hints of Prokofiev and Stravinsky, but this work has distinctiveness of its own. Yet another striking find in this year.

Better late than never, my friend! I find Shchedrin a truly fascinating composer with a unique musical language. He is fully capable of writing avant-garde works, but he's just as comfortable writing gorgeous works that just ooze with a heartfelt lyricism. After Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Weinberg and Schnittke, he must be counted as one of my favorites from Soviet Era Russia.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roy Bland on June 02, 2021, 12:07:44 AM
Quote from: relm1 on May 04, 2021, 05:58:33 AM
I believe there is a third symphony but quite a few years separate No. 2 and 3.
Sinfonia n. 3 op. 109 (2000)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 02, 2021, 07:22:09 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 01, 2021, 07:51:44 PM
Better late than never, my friend! I find Shchedrin a truly fascinating composer with a unique musical language. He is fully capable of writing avant-garde works, but he's just as comfortable writing gorgeous works that just ooze with a heartfelt lyricism. After Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Weinberg and Schnittke, he must be counted as one of my favorites from Soviet Era Russia.

Yes, fortunately it wasn't later! Today I relistened to it and I'm amazed by how consistently marvelous it is, I mean, I didn't feel any dull part at all, and the magic and spark are always there. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I considered it one of my all-time favorite ballets. A superlative work IMO. This composer definitely has a voice of his own, there is personality in his music.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 02, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 02, 2021, 07:22:09 PM
Yes, fortunately it wasn't later! Today I relistened to it and I'm amazed by how consistently marvelous it is, I mean, I didn't feel any dull part at all, and the magic and spark are always there. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I considered it one of my all-time favorite ballets. A superlative work IMO. This composer definitely has a voice of his own, there is personality in his music.

I seem to be entering into a Delius phase, but as soon as I can, I want to revisit this ballet. Glad to hear your experience has been a positive one.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on October 21, 2021, 05:03:19 PM
Many fans of Shchedrin here?  I am surprised to realized the 88 year old composer is still around and active.  His latest work was just from last year!  https://de.schott-music.com/shop/priklyucheniya-obez-yany-no446334.html
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on October 22, 2021, 03:11:49 PM
Quote from: relm1 on October 21, 2021, 05:03:19 PM
Many fans of Shchedrin here?  I am surprised to realized the 88 year old composer is still around and active.  His latest work was just from last year!  https://de.schott-music.com/shop/priklyucheniya-obez-yany-no446334.html
Yes, I am - this work in particular:
(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 22, 2021, 06:36:29 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 22, 2021, 03:11:49 PM
Yes, I am - this work in particular:
(//)

One of the best 1sts, right, Jeffrey?  ;)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2021, 01:37:23 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 22, 2021, 06:36:29 PM
One of the best 1sts, right, Jeffrey?  ;)
Oh yes Cesar!
:)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 07:40:47 PM
Recently I was revisiting Shchedrin's epic and poignant Symphony No. 1 in E-flat minor (in my favorite key, btw!), and man, this is some stirring stuff! For me, it's the work of a genius, and he doesn't sound like Shostakovich or Weinberg or others.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51QjYk-3tvL.jpg)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2022, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 07:40:47 PM
Recently I was revisiting Shchedrin's epic and poignant Symphony No. 1 in E-flat minor (in my favorite key, btw!), and man, this is some stirring stuff! For me, it's the work of a genius, and he doesn't sound like Shostakovich or Weinberg or others.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51QjYk-3tvL.jpg)

I dig it, too, Cesar. One of the finest post-Shostakovich Soviet symphonies, IMHO.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 08:48:33 PM
Yes, and regarding ballets, The Little Hump-backed Horse left me wonderfully delighted. One of my finest revelations thank this forum.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2022, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 08:48:33 PM
Yes, and regarding ballets, The Little Hump-backed Horse left me wonderfully delighted. One of my finest revelations thank this forum.

8)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on January 06, 2022, 08:58:10 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 07:40:47 PM
Recently I was revisiting Shchedrin's epic and poignant Symphony No. 1 in E-flat minor (in my favorite key, btw!), and man, this is some stirring stuff! For me, it's the work of a genius, and he doesn't sound like Shostakovich or Weinberg or others.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51QjYk-3tvL.jpg)
It's a fabulous work Cesar. I came across it on an LP, coupled with Miaskovsky's equally fine 23rd Symphony on an old EMI/Melodiya LP in my local record library in London in the early 1970s I think. I love the ending - you think that it's building up to a grand climax and then, suddenly, the whole thing dissolves down and deconstructs into nothingness. I've enjoyed much of his music ('Chimes' for example) but nothing IMO compares with the brilliance of his 1st Symphony.
(//)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 06, 2022, 05:24:51 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 06, 2022, 08:58:10 AM
It's a fabulous work Cesar. I came across it on an LP, coupled with Miaskovsky's equally fine 23rd Symphony on an old EMI/Melodiya LP in my local record library in London in the early 1970s I think. I love the ending - you think that it's building up to a grand climax and then, suddenly, the whole thing dissolves down and deconstructs into nothingness. I've enjoyed much of his music ('Chimes' for example) but nothing IMO compares with the brilliance of his 1st Symphony.
(//)

That's my thought as well, Jeffrey. This symphony is a real stunner. Btw, good memories from that LP. Nostalgia is never absent on moments like this.

Do you know his ballet The Little Humpbacked Horse? It's a sensational and magical score. It was a revelation last year thank this forum, I think John was, so thank you! And the orchestration is to die for, not to mention melodically speaking. Just fabulous.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 06, 2022, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 06, 2022, 05:24:51 PM
That's my thought as well, Jeffrey. This symphony is a real stunner. Btw, good memories from that LP. Nostalgia is never absent on moments like this.

Do you know his ballet The Little Humpbacked Horse? It's a sensational and magical score. It was a revelation last year thank this forum, I think John was, so thank you! And the orchestration is to die for, not to mention melodically speaking. Just fabulous.

I believe I did give you The Little Humpbacked Horse nudge, indeed, Cesar. But that's no matter, I believe you would've found the piece eventually. I also like that Chamber Suite from that Humpbacked Horse box set. I'm not sure if you've heard it, but the movement Amoroso never fails to move me:

https://www.youtube.com/v/M0KJJBkhafA&list=OLAK5uy_neF_EbndZxjm6_CGcTxzxX9XL75P0VMHY&index=47
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on January 06, 2022, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 06, 2022, 05:24:51 PM
That's my thought as well, Jeffrey. This symphony is a real stunner. Btw, good memories from that LP. Nostalgia is never absent on moments like this.

Do you know his ballet The Little Humpbacked Horse? It's a sensational and magical score. It was a revelation last year thank this forum, I think John was, so thank you! And the orchestration is to die for, not to mention melodically speaking. Just fabulous.
I'm sure that I enjoyed the Little Humpbacked Horse years ago, but I will try to search it out. I'm sure that Olympia CD is now incredibly expensive - come to think of it I think that I had the TLHBH on a very old Olympia audio-cassette!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: T. D. on January 07, 2022, 04:29:57 AM
An A/V recording of Shchedrin's opera The Left-Hander just showed up at Berkshire. 2 Blu-Ray discs on the Mariinsky label.

Andrei Popov [The Left-Hander], Edward Tsanga [Ataman Platov], Vladimir Moroz [Alexander I / Nicholas I], Kristina Alieva [The Flea], Maria Maksakova [Princess Charlotte] et al. Mariinsky Orchestra and Chorus/ Valery Gergiev. Directed by Alexei Stepanyuk. (Running time approx. 119'. Double-play set: contains Blu-Ray disc {PLEASE NOTE: BLU-RAY DISC PLAYER REQUIRED} and DVD)

I've never heard of this work (but rather enjoy the old Melodiya recording of Dead Souls, the only Shchedrin opera I've heard). With a character called The Flea, it might be funny.

Reviews:
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mrn00588blua.php
https://www.operanews.com/Opera_News_Magazine/2015/7/Recordings/SHCHEDRIN__The_Left-Hander_(Levsha).html
https://www.operanews.com/Opera_News_Magazine/2016/12/Recordings/Shchedrin__The_Left-Hander.html

Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on January 07, 2022, 04:21:37 PM
How do you differentiate the symphonies from the concertos for orchestra?  Since he composed 3 symphonies, but 5 concerti for orchestra but the first two concerti for orchestra are brief, the others are symphony duration, are they symphonies in all but name?
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 07, 2022, 05:16:25 PM
Quote from: relm1 on January 07, 2022, 04:21:37 PM
How do you differentiate the symphonies from the concertos for orchestra?  Since he composed 3 symphonies, but 5 concerti for orchestra but the first two concerti for orchestra are brief, the others are symphony duration, are they symphonies in all but name?

I haven't heard his 3rd Symphony yet (hopefully it will be on CD soon), but his 2nd Symphony is rather disappointing taking into account how powerful the No. 1 is.

I wouldn't say his concertos for orchestra are symphonies in disguise. For me, they're more like symphonic poems. No. 3 Old Russian Circus Music is one of the best IMO. Nos. 4 and 5 are less interesting for me.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: relm1 on January 10, 2022, 04:27:52 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 05, 2022, 07:40:47 PM
Recently I was revisiting Shchedrin's epic and poignant Symphony No. 1 in E-flat minor (in my favorite key, btw!), and man, this is some stirring stuff! For me, it's the work of a genius, and he doesn't sound like Shostakovich or Weinberg or others.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51QjYk-3tvL.jpg)

Thanks for the recommendation.  I just listened to it and loved it!  Now I'm on to No. 2 which I'm also enjoying.  I am friends with someone who is close friends with Shchedrin so must enquire on his health and welfare.  We hadn't connected much since Boris Tishchenko had died but there are very few Soviet era major composers still around and at 89, Shchedrin must be among the last.  One of the things I love most about his No. 1 and 2 is how there is such a clear connection to the Russian tradition.  You can hear Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsakov too...even if it's brief, it's still there.  BUT, Shchedrin, like Schnittke and Tishchenko and some can argue Gabriel Prokofiev are the more cosmopolitan versions who incorporate influences far outside their natural influences.  With Shostakovich, the Mussorgsky, Mahler, and Bach influences are obvious.  With Stravinsky, the french impressionist influences get added too.  A generation later, jazz and the 20th century avant-garde too like ligeti/Stockhausen.  Then with Grabriel Prokofiev, you can add hip hop and DJ too! But in Shchedrin this progression is very clear.  I'm loving his No. 2 and find it a wonderful counterpart to Schnittke's collage where there are literal moments in other styles, but in Shchedrin's No. 2, not so overt. 
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 13, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: ultralinear on January 07, 2022, 05:37:33 AM
I saw a semi-staged production of this with Gergiev conducting the Mariinsky and the composer in attendance.  It went down very well with the London audience, not least for the mercilessly satirical view it presented of the British Royal Family. ;D

Could I ask you anything about you?

Why do you delete your posts? You have had more than 20 contributions in these lives and many more!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 13, 2022, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: relm1 on January 10, 2022, 04:27:52 PM
Thanks for the recommendation.  I just listened to it and loved it!  Now I'm on to No. 2 which I'm also enjoying.  I am friends with someone who is close friends with Shchedrin so must enquire on his health and welfare.  We hadn't connected much since Boris Tishchenko had died but there are very few Soviet era major composers still around and at 89, Shchedrin must be among the last.  One of the things I love most about his No. 1 and 2 is how there is such a clear connection to the Russian tradition.  You can hear Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsakov too...even if it's brief, it's still there.  BUT, Shchedrin, like Schnittke and Tishchenko and some can argue Gabriel Prokofiev are the more cosmopolitan versions who incorporate influences far outside their natural influences.  With Shostakovich, the Mussorgsky, Mahler, and Bach influences are obvious.  With Stravinsky, the french impressionist influences get added too.  A generation later, jazz and the 20th century avant-garde too like ligeti/Stockhausen.  Then with Grabriel Prokofiev, you can add hip hop and DJ too! But in Shchedrin this progression is very clear.  I'm loving his No. 2 and find it a wonderful counterpart to Schnittke's collage where there are literal moments in other styles, but in Shchedrin's No. 2, not so overt.

Good to read, relm1! Please, give to him my sincere admiration and how I love his works, when you have the opportunity, from Cesar!  :)

There is much to discover by him yet indeed. He is a composer of a league of his own. I am bewitched by his style, atmosphere and sonorities.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 05:24:55 PM
Just revisited his First Piano Concerto, and oh my... what an incredibly impassionate, eloquent, magnificent, sparkling and hyper-Romantic work it is! The kind of stuff that would go to PTHBYAR thread. Superb stuff. I don't remember having heard his PCs in their entirely. Something to keep in mind in my case. The composer on the piano in company of Svetlanov and the USSR SO are unbeatable. One of my favorite rediscoveries lately.

BTW, this Melodiya sets are really a treasure trove.

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d00001e025b68d0206715528a6a5100bf)
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2022, 05:29:50 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 05:24:55 PM
Just revisited his First Piano Concerto, and oh my... what an incredibly impassionate, eloquent, magnificent, sparkling and hyper-Romantic work it is! The kind of stuff that would go to PTHBYAR thread. Superb stuff. I don't remember having heard his PCs in their entirely. Something to keep in mind in my case. The composer at the piano in company of Svetlanov and the USSR SO are unbeatable. One of my favorite rediscoveries lately.

BTW, this Melodiya sets are really a treasure trove.

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d00001e025b68d0206715528a6a5100bf)

Nice! I should revisit those works. I recall enjoying them a lot. Shchedrin, for me, is the last of those Soviet Era composers that's still around with the exception of Gubaidulina, but she fled to Hamburg many years ago.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2022, 05:29:50 PM
Nice! I should revisit those works. I recall enjoying them a lot. Shchedrin, for me, is the last of those Soviet Era composers that's still around with the exception of Gubaidulina, but she fled to Hamburg many years ago.

Of the late Soviet composers, he's one of my favorites too! Shchedrin has had an interesting evolution as a composer.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2022, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 05:38:43 PM
Of the late Soviet composers, he's one of my favorites too! Shchedrin has had an interesting evolution as a composer.

And what would that evolution be? I don't know his own stylistic history well at all. I know he started off Shostakovich-inspired, but then branched off into a plethora of different directions. It's difficult for me to pin-down his style in general.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on June 22, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
You might want to check out his second one, also great. I bought Hamelin's Hyperion disc mostly for the two Shostakovich concertos, but the Shchedrin was the revelation.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from: Brewski on June 22, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
You might want to check out his second one, also great. I bought Hamelin's Hyperion disc mostly for the two Shostakovich concertos, but the Shchedrin was the revelation.

--Bruce

Thank you! I don't know why I never paid attention to the Shchedrin coupling in that Hyperion CD
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: bhodges on June 22, 2022, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 22, 2022, 07:45:03 PM
Thank you! I don't know why I never paid attention to the Shchedrin coupling in that Hyperion CD

It's because those two Shostakovich concertos rock!  ;D

--Bruce
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: vandermolen on June 22, 2022, 10:15:06 PM
The First Symphony is excellent - I rate it alongside Boris Tchaikovsky's 3rd Symphony 'Sebastopol'. I must have another listen to the Second Symphony (Chandos) which has never appealed to me so much. I wish that Chandos would record the 1st Symphony as well.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 23, 2022, 06:07:32 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 22, 2022, 10:15:06 PM
The First Symphony is excellent - I rate it alongside Boris Tchaikovsky's 3rd Symphony 'Sebastopol'. I must have another listen to the Second Symphony (Chandos) which has never appealed to me so much. I wish that Chandos would record the 1st Symphony as well.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you that the 2nd symphony is a letdown, especially after the brilliance of the 1st. I hate to say this, but we might not get any forthcoming Shchedrin recordings until after the composer's passing. Honestly, his music needs a champion and I don't really see anyone being one at this juncture.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: kyjo on June 27, 2022, 11:57:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 23, 2022, 06:07:32 AM
Yeah, I definitely agree with you that the 2nd symphony is a letdown, especially after the brilliance of the 1st. I hate to say this, but we might not get any forthcoming Shchedrin recordings until after the composer's passing. Honestly, his music needs a champion and I don't really see anyone being one at this juncture.

Not to mention we haven't yet received a recording of his 3rd Symphony (2000)!
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 27, 2022, 12:04:43 PM
Quote from: kyjo on June 27, 2022, 11:57:59 AM
Not to mention we haven't yet received a recording of his 3rd Symphony (2000)!

There are a vast amount of works that need recordings. Just look at Martinů's or Koechlin's oevure for example.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: kyjo on June 27, 2022, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2022, 12:04:43 PM
There are a vast amount of works that need recordings. Just look at Martinů's or Koechlin's oevure for example.

Yeah, Koechlin's two numbered symphonies are a rather major omission in the catalogue. I think Martinu's been quite well served, though. Toccata Classics has dug up a bunch of his early orchestral works, some of which (such as the tone poem Vanishing Midnight) are quite excellent.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 27, 2022, 12:32:30 PM
Quote from: kyjo on June 27, 2022, 12:11:51 PM
Yeah, Koechlin's two numbered symphonies are a rather major omission in the catalogue. I think Martinu's been quite well served, though. Toccata Classics has dug up a bunch of his early orchestral works, some of which (such as the tone poem Vanishing Midnight) are quite excellent.

Not to sound condescending, but have you actually looked at Martinů's oeuvre? There are some glaring omissions in his ballets for example: Le jugement de Paris and The Strangler. Istar has never been issued on CD --- there's an older Supraphon LP, but I don't think it's the complete work. Several of his operas also haven't seen the light of day either like Theatre Behind the Gate or Tears of the Knife. I'm probably forgetting several other works, but as a fanatic of this composer, there are many more works to uncover that no one has heard.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: kyjo on June 28, 2022, 07:40:22 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2022, 12:32:30 PM
Not to sound condescending, but have you actually looked at Martinů's oeuvre? There are some glaring omissions in his ballets for example: Le jugement de Paris and The Strangler. Istar has never been issued on CD --- there's an older Supraphon LP, but I don't think it's the complete work. Several of his operas also haven't seen the light of day either like Theatre Behind the Gate or Tears of the Knife. I'm probably forgetting several other works, but as a fanatic of this composer, there are many more works to uncover that no one has heard.

I'm sure you're right, John. ;) As for myself, there's enough Martinu recordings in the catalogue to last me multiple lifetimes. Unlike you, I need to take Martinu in small doses or else his works all start to sound too similar to me.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 28, 2022, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 28, 2022, 07:40:22 AM
I'm sure you're right, John. ;) As for myself, there's enough Martinu recordings in the catalogue to last me multiple lifetimes. Unlike you, I need to take Martinu in small doses or else his works all start to sound too similar to me.

And this is a problem with composers who produced a lot of music. As I mentioned with Martinů, he was a composer that didn't edit anything. He composed everything in his mind and put it straight to paper. Villa-Lobos would work on 4-5 compositions simultaneously and Milhaud was never found not composing. It's amazing that they were able to achieve such distinctive voices while composing one work after another.
Title: Re: Rodion Shchedrin (b. 1932)
Post by: Roy Bland on December 12, 2022, 07:10:48 PM
26 choral pieces recorded (cd) Yurlov choir has its own label     http://choir-capella.ru/en/kontaktyi
(https://translate.google.com/website?sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&u=https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/schedrin-cd.jpg)