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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on March 02, 2008, 02:52:04 AM

Title: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 02, 2008, 02:52:04 AM
I don't think that we've had a Tubin thread here.  He's one of my favourites. I know the symphonies quite well as I have the BIS box and all the Alba separate releases (and no money).

I recently discovered his lovely "Ballade for Violin and Orchestra" on BIS. It is only a short piece of just over 7 minutes but a perfect antidote to the hectic pace of modern life.

Any other Tubin fans out there?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sean on March 02, 2008, 03:18:59 AM
A very original figure, only getting due recognition in recent years- the Grove 1980 article is one short paragraph! I bought all the Jarvi series on BIS plus the piano music and other stuff. Some of the middle period symphonies are extremely interesting, with a unique harmonic world and motor rhythms; the piano sonata is closer to Messiaen.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 02, 2008, 03:25:58 AM
I know Christo is a fan, because he recommended him to me... I have listened to seven symphonies so far (under Järvi, on BIS). The ones I like most are the First, Fourth and Sixth.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: johnQpublic on March 02, 2008, 05:34:14 AM
Over a span of 6-8 years I collected all of his symphonies on seperate discs as chaeply as I could. That patience paid off.

I wouldn't have purchased them all if his voice hadn't resonated within me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Harry on March 02, 2008, 06:14:36 AM
When the Tubin symphonies were realeased by BIS, which is some while ago, I bought the records immediately, and later bought the cd's. So I can say I am a admirer for quite some time. I always was attracted to this idiom, and played these LP's grey, so I was glad that before I had to buy them anew, the cd's came on the market.
The starkness, and unrelenting power in this music worked as a addictive drug on me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: paulb on March 02, 2008, 08:15:59 AM
I heard clips ;)
 :P
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 02, 2008, 01:27:33 PM
I know Christo is a fan, because he recommended him to me... I have listened to seven symphonies so far (under Järvi, on BIS). The ones I like most are the First, Fourth and Sixth.

No 2 "Legendary" is one of my favourites too.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 02, 2008, 01:37:11 PM
No 2 "Legendary" is one of my favourites too.

I find the opening of the Second magical. And the rest of the symphony is strong, too. And yet, and yet - I feel as if Tubin revisits the First and hides it by shuffling its elements around, so that the march becomes the centre of the work instead of the ending. In short - the Second convinces me less than the First, it seems less original.

What do you think?

I want to add: I only know the Järvi performance. Perhaps that makes a difference. Christo preferred Volmer...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 02, 2008, 03:04:46 PM
I find the opening of the Second magical. And the rest of the symphony is strong, too. And yet, and yet - I feel as if Tubin revisits the First and hides it by shuffling its elements around, so that the march becomes the centre of the work instead of the ending. In short - the Second convinces me less than the First, it seems less original.

What do you think?

I want to add: I only know the Järvi performance. Perhaps that makes a difference. Christo preferred Volmer...

I think that you make a very interesting point. I like the massive climax in the first movement of No 2 but I listen to No 1 more. Reviews of No 1 referred to it "standing apart" from the other symphonies but I could never see this myself. It strikes me as am entirely characteristic work, which i love. The opening movement of Symphony 4 is a favourite as is the moving conclusion of No 5. 1,2,4,5 and 10 are my favourites
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: PaulR on March 02, 2008, 08:57:17 PM
I like Tubin.  Though, rather than his symphonies, the piece I return to the most is his Bass concerto.  It's one of my favorites (If not the favorite) piece for the bass. 

As for symphonies, I like #10 and #9. 
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Hector on March 03, 2008, 07:32:28 AM
I bought Jarvi's 3rd and 8th.

I persevere but suspect that there is nothing here that is better than  other, favourite, twentieth century symphonists.

I did the same with Holmboe and felt that there was little to get me out of my chair. :(
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 03, 2008, 03:18:31 PM
I heard clips ;)
 :P

Of course you did, Paul. And we all know that 30 seconds is all it takes to judge a work.

Sarge
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Catison on March 07, 2008, 09:05:06 PM
I have found Tubin to be a great discovery.  The pieces that really sold me were the 3rd and 6th symphonies, particularly the first movement of the 3rd and the second movement of the 6th.  The rhythmic cohesiveness of the themes is so well done.  There are always new things to hear in the music.  It is a shame I won't have the opportunity to hear any of these symphonies live.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 09, 2008, 03:18:01 AM
I have found Tubin to be a great discovery.  The pieces that really sold me were the 3rd and 6th symphonies, particularly the first movement of the 3rd and the second movement of the 6th.  The rhythmic cohesiveness of the themes is so well done.  There are always new things to hear in the music.  It is a shame I won't have the opportunity to hear any of these symphonies live.

Yes, I agree with your last point, although I did hear Gliere's Third Symphony live a while back...so there is always hope!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 09, 2008, 06:54:18 AM
Here's a review of a recent SOBR concert that included Tubin 5:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/03/ionarts-at-large-neem-jrvi-tubin-and.html#links


Sarge
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 09, 2008, 08:55:23 AM
Here's a review of a recent SOBR concert that included Tubin 5:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/03/ionarts-at-large-neem-jrvi-tubin-and.html#links


Sarge

Excellent review. I must give the Tubin Fifth another chance. It didn't impress me on first hearing as much as #1 and #4 and #6.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 14, 2008, 12:07:34 AM
Excellent review. I must give the Tubin Fifth another chance. It didn't impress me on first hearing as much as #1 and #4 and #6.

The end of the slow movement of No 5 is especially beautiful and very moving.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: violinconcerto on March 14, 2008, 01:28:15 AM
Hello!

I lately read that the Symphony No.2 "The legendary" by Eduard Tubin is for violin, viola, piano and orchestra.
Are there really three soloists or are these just promeninent solo parts for the orchestral members?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 14, 2008, 01:56:32 AM
Hello!

I lately read that the Symphony No.2 "The legendary" by Eduard Tubin is for violin, viola, piano and orchestra.
Are there really three soloists or are these just promeninent solo parts for the orchestral members?

Hi, violinconcerto! No, there aren't three soloists. As far as I can remember violin, piano and viola have important parts, but "The Legendary" is not a concerto of sorts, but a real symphony.

Okay, I listened to the Fifth again. I have a big problem with the first movement. Yes, it has all the Tubin trade-marks - it is driven, a bit grim, and there are terrific climaxes. But I hear it as a weaker rehash of the opening movement of the Fourth, with none of the lyrical beauty. The melodic material simply can't sustain the dramatic uses to which it is put. That is why some of the music sounds bombastic. So - I don't like the first movement. The Andante is much better, especially the second half - a strange blend of Bax in Russian mood and, perhaps, Myaskovsky (vandermolen may correct me!) The final Allegro assai combines the ferocity of the first movement with the restrained lyricism of the second. But this movement, too, doesn't completely convince me. It is too much 'gesture symphonism', to coin a phrase (which is a problem I have with the Third, too).

In conclusion - the Fourth shows Tubin at his lyrical best, the Sixth at his most violent, and the Fifth sits uncomfortably in the middle...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 14, 2008, 02:07:36 AM
Hi, violinconcerto! No, there aren't three soloists. As far as I can remember violin, piano and viola have important parts, but "The Legendary" is not a concerto of sorts, but a real symphony.

Okay, I listened to the Fifth again. I have a big problem with the first movement. Yes, it has all the Tubin trade-marks - it is driven, a bit grim, and there are terrific climaxes. But I hear it as a weaker rehash of the opening movement of the Fourth, with none of the lyrical beauty. The melodic material simply can't sustain the dramatic uses to which it is put. That is why some of the music sounds bombastic. So - I don't like the first movement. The Andante is much better, especially the second half - a strange blend of Bax in Russian mood and, perhaps, Myaskovsky (vandermolen may correct me!) The final Allegro assai combines the ferocity of the first movement with the restrained lyricism of the second. But this movement, too, doesn't completely convince me. It is too much 'gesture symphonism', to coin a phrase (which is a problem I have with the Third, too).

In conclusion - the Fourth shows Tubin at his lyrical best, the Sixth at his most violent, and the Fifth sits uncomfortably in the middle...

Bax/Myaskovsky sounds about right to me for that movement.I was listening to Lyatoshinsky symphs 2 and 3 in the last couple of days. Reminded me of Tubin.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 14, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
Bax/Myaskovsky sounds about right to me for that movement.I was listening to Lyatoshinsky symphs 2 and 3 in the last couple of days. Reminded me of Tubin.

So, another symphonist to look out for!

But - I'd be interested to know what you make of my, slightly negative, assessment (if you have the time, that is)...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 14, 2008, 03:44:49 AM
So, another symphonist to look out for!

But - I'd be interested to know what you make of my, slightly negative, assessment (if you have the time, that is)...

At work, so a bit rushed. I'll listen to Tubin's 5th Symphony over the weekend and report back (I have three recordings Jarvi, Father and son+the Alba version) I suspect that you would like Lyatoshinsky Symphony 2 and 3, very much in the Tubin/Myaskovsky mould.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 14, 2008, 04:00:14 AM
At work, so a bit rushed. I'll listen to Tubin's 5th Symphony over the weekend and report back (I have three recordings Jarvi, Father and son+the Alba version) I suspect that you would like Lyatoshinsky Symphony 2 and 3, very much in the Tubin/Myaskovsky mould.

Take your time, Jeffrey.

Seeing you have three interpretations, I think you could be in a better position to judge the work, as I only have the Järvi père. Still, the outlines of the work are very clear, as is its trajectory. A conductor can't change those, being the parameters within which he/she has to work. Whether differences in tempi, and the moulding of phrases, and the placing of structural accents could change my perception of the work, its quality, its harmonic and melodic substance?....

Johan

P.S. I found an article about Lyatoshinsky et al. I uploaded it to MediFire:

http://www.mediafire.com/?iadjvjjynzs
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on March 14, 2008, 07:12:03 AM
Right, I'm a big fan of Tubin ever since I accidentally heard his Fourth in a Radio broadcast, back in the early 1980s. His cycle of ten symphonies is among the very best in the 20th century - on equal par with e.g. those by Vaughan Williams, Nielsen, Sibelius, Shosta, Braga Santos.

Both cycles available (Järvi and Volmer) are very fine. And I was lucky enough to attend performances of the Fifth and Sixth here in Utrecht (both times under Volmer) as well as a sort of premiere of the 11th (first part only, finished by Kaljo Raid at the request of Järvi) under Järvi, with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam, somewhere around 1990.

For some inexplicable reason, but Jezetha seems to be offering a clue, I never really came to grips with the Fifth. But I highly enjoy all the others, and especially 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, as well as both violin concertos, the double bass and balailaka concertos, Music for Strings, several 'Estonian' suites, a.s.o.

Btw, did anyone hear the complete Kratt ballet music, released last year by Alba, also under Volmer? (I bought it, but didn't find time to listen, yet).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 14, 2008, 04:38:01 PM
Take your time, Jeffrey.

Seeing you have three interpretations, I think you could be in a better position to judge the work, as I only have the Järvi père. Still, the outlines of the work are very clear, as is its trajectory. A conductor can't change those, being the parameters within which he/she has to work. Whether differences in tempi, and the moulding of phrases, and the placing of structural accents could change my perception of the work, its quality, its harmonic and melodic substance?....

Johan

P.S. I found an article about Lyatoshinsky et al. I uploaded it to MediFire:

http://www.mediafire.com/?iadjvjjynzs

Johan,

Thanks v much for the Lyatoshinsky article which I have printed off to read. Very kind of you.

I listened to Tubin's 5th Symphony this evening (Telarc recording Paavo Jarvi). I enjoyed it. The opening movement is, I agree, not as good as No 4 but I still liked it, especially the climax and ending. The second movement (especially the end) is the heart of the piece. I prefer the older Jarvi's performance as Paavo's is a bit quick (but still good). I will listen to the Volmer again too.

So, I enjoyed it but my fave Tubin symphs are nos 1,2,4 and 10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on March 31, 2008, 11:59:48 PM
In conclusion - the Fourth shows Tubin at his lyrical best, the Sixth at his most violent, and the Fifth sits uncomfortably in the middle...

Your final verdict?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2008, 12:02:56 AM
Your final verdict?

No verdict can ever be final in the case of art. But the Fifth - I still don't love it...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on April 01, 2008, 02:55:41 AM
No verdict can ever be final in the case of art. But the Fifth - I still don't love it...

`Oh yes it can!' Not in art perhaps, but in life there's much finality - commonly known as death.
The point being, that I've always had the same reservations with the opening of the Fifth, though I never analysed my reservations (as I never discussed Tubin with anyone so far). I always explained them as part of a period of less inspired works, after his escape to Sweden in 1944.

I find not only the Fifth lacking in inspiration, but the Piano Concertino from the same year (1945) as well - a very un-Tubinlike work, imho. Yet, from the late fourties on, he resumes his strength, cumulating in his personal `Sacre', a creative eruption not unlike Vermeulen's Second, the Sixth Symphony.

Btw: I recently discovered some Tubinesque qualities in the Second and especially Third symphonies by Léon Orthel. Did you ever hear his symphonic work? Like also the late Evocazione or the Second Scherzo for orchestra, both available in different recordings.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2008, 03:33:38 AM
`Oh yes it can!' Not in art perhaps, but in life there's much finality - commonly known as death.
The point being, that I've always had the same reservations with the opening of the Fifth, though I never analysed my reservations (as I never discussed Tubin with anyone so far). I always explained them as part of a period of less inspired works, after his escape to Sweden in 1944.

I find not only the Fifth lacking in inspiration, but the Piano Concertino from the same year (1945) as well - a very un-Tubinlike work, imho. Yet, from the late fourties on, he resumes his strength, cumulating in his personal `Sacre', a creative eruption not unlike Vermeulen's Second, the Sixth Symphony.

Btw: I recently discovered some Tubinesque qualities in the Second and especially Third symphonies by Léon Orthel. Did you ever hear his symphonic work? Like also the late Evocazione or the Second Scherzo for orchestra, both available in different recordings.

It's interesting that we share our misgivings about the Fifth. Another Tubin symphony I find rather mechanical (perhaps because he wanted to please the Soviet occupiers of Estonia?!) is his Third. It sounds rather hollow in a socialist-realist way, Shosta minus the irony (if 'irony' it was (another can of worms I won't open)).

Re Orthel - I heard his Piccola Symphonia (if that's the title) almost 30 years ago. I can't remember a thing...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2008, 04:03:44 AM
It is a long time since I listened to my collection of Tubin's music! (I have the Neeme Jarvi BIS set.)

Tubin is a composer whose music really does appeal to me-as does most Nordic orchestral music! I DO remember that the 5th symphony was the one which had the least appeal for me. However, all I can remember was that it sounded like a bit of a Prokofiev off-cut without the heroic drama of the first three symphonies(perhaps occasionally marked by a degree of bombast?) or the tragic mien of the last symphonies.

It is so difficult to find the time to go back to play enough of my favourite composers when I keep on adding new CDs to my collection!
Just a few minutes ago the postman brought 6 more(Sir Edward German's 2nd symphony, Cecil Armstrong Gibbs 'Odysseus' Symphony,
a collection of viola music by Hindemith, the same composer's Oratorio 'Das Unaufhorliche', a long deleted EMI CD of music by d'Indy-including his Wallenstein Trilogy, and two piano concertos by Montague Phillips).

Why are there only 24 hours in the day??
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 01, 2008, 04:15:08 AM
It is a long time since I listened to my collection of Tubin's music! (I have the Neeme Jarvi BIS set.)

Tubin is a composer whose music really does appeal to me-as does most Nordic orchestral music! I DO remember that the 5th symphony was the one which had the least appeal for me. However, all I can remember was that it sounded like a bit of a Prokofiev off-cut without the heroic drama of the first three symphonies(perhaps occasionally marked by a degree of bombast?) or the tragic mien of the last symphonies.

It is so difficult to find the time to go back to play enough of my favourite composers when I keep on adding new CDs to my collection!
Just a few minutes ago the postman brought 6 more(Sir Edward German's 2nd symphony, Cecil Armstrong Gibbs 'Odysseus' Symphony,
a collection of viola music by Hindemith, the same composer's Oratorio 'Das Unaufhorliche', a long deleted EMI CD of music by d'Indy-including his Wallenstein Trilogy, and two piano concertos by Montague Phillips).

Why are there only 24 hours in the day??

A bit off-topic, but - what's Gibbs' 'Westmorland' Symphony like?!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2008, 04:47:36 AM
A bit off-topic, but - what's Gibbs' 'Westmorland' Symphony like?!

Very fine indeed! It was inspired by the glorious scenery of the Lake District where Gibbs and his family were refugees during World War Two but is made all the more moving and eloquent by the impact on the composer of the death in action of his son a few months before.

The 'Westmorland' is certainly worth hearing! Gibbs was acknowledged as a bit of a minaturist, almost a 'light music' composer, but the two symphonies I have heard(so far-not listened to 'Odysseus' yet!) demonstrate that he could handle the symphonic form and, I suspect, the 'Westmorland' may be his purely orchestral masterpiece. Anyone who likes Vaughan Williams should take to it!

(Quiz question. Name another symphony inspired by landscape of the Lake District. Answer-Egon Wellesz's lst symphony! He said that the countryside reminded him of his native Styria.)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on April 01, 2008, 07:04:35 AM
Just a few minutes ago the postman brought 6 more (... Cecil Armstrong Gibbs 'Odysseus' Symphony ... )

By Juve! I didn't know it has been recorded, only knowing (& cherishing) the Marco Polo CD with his First and Third `Westmorland' - a personal favourite of mine, for the sake of it's entirely beautiful [Auden quote] final movement and for it's deeply moving, humane qualities.

Where, when, whatever, how, and why do we find his Second, the Odysseus? Tell us all, please!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2008, 08:07:40 AM
By Juve! I didn't know it has been recorded, only knowing (& cherishing) the Marco Polo CD with his First and Third `Westmorland' - a personal favourite of mine, for the sake of it's entirely beautiful [Auden quote] final movement and for it's deeply moving, humane qualities.

Where, when, whatever, how, and why do we find his Second, the Odysseus? Tell us all, please!

Dutton Epoch CDLX 7201: Susan Gritton(soprano), Mark Stone(baritone), London Oriana Choir and the B.B.C. Concert Orchestra(David Drummond).
Just released.

I get my Dutton CDs from an online company called Presto since-for whatever reason-my usual supplier, MDT, does not appear to sell them. £8.49 plus postage.

Glad to hear someone else likes the 'Westmorland'!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Lethevich on May 03, 2009, 11:50:00 AM
I just noticed that there has recently been a full live video of Tubin's 4th uploaded by a US (amateur?) orchestra:

Mvt 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/z22-VL9ZScY http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/jdoJG15SSgg

Mvt 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/WdcEjHEFEzU

Mvt 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/KC5AyzyH8AQ

Mvt 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/upNUXK7Ln8c

This work keeps bringing whisps of RVW's 5th into my head. A fine, catchy piece of music. Rather different works, though, of course - despite their very close dates of composition. The Tubin also on occasion reminds me of the fantastical atmosphere of Martinů, for example...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 03, 2009, 01:32:42 PM
Thank for the vids, Sarah. Great piece, the Fourth. Tubin's happiest symphonic creation, I think.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 03, 2009, 01:49:41 PM
Thank for the vids, Sarah. Great piece, the Fourth. Tubin's happiest symphonic creation, I think.

A friend though that Tubin's great Symphony No 4 reminded him of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. Tubin's 4th Symphony is one of my favourites (with No 1,2 and 10). The BIS CD has an interesting cover photo of the composer contemplating stepping in to a partially submerged boat.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Dundonnell on May 03, 2009, 02:24:27 PM
A friend though that Tubin's great Symphony No 4 reminded him of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. Tubin's 4th Symphony is one of my favourites (with No 1,2 and 10). The BIS CD has an interesting cover photo of the composer contemplating stepping in to a partially submerged boat.

I doubt if Tubin is actually contemplating stepping into the boat, Jeffrey; certainly not the way he is dressed ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 04, 2009, 12:29:23 AM
I doubt if Tubin is actually contemplating stepping into the boat, Jeffrey; certainly not the way he is dressed ;D
You never know with these Estonians Colin  ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on May 04, 2009, 12:43:43 AM
The BIS CD has an interesting cover photo of the composer contemplating stepping in to a partially submerged boat.

    ;)

                           (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d1/38/3adad250fca0c9bc938a9010.L.jpg)

Tubin actually fled by boat to Sweden, in 1944, and as an exile had to `burn his ships behind him'.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 04, 2009, 12:25:41 PM
    ;)

                           (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d1/38/3adad250fca0c9bc938a9010.L.jpg)

DON'T DO IT EDUARD!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on December 22, 2009, 01:47:29 PM
I have added Tubin's Tenth to my list of favourites (after 1, 4 and 6). It's in one movement of about 25 minutes, and it manages this form very well. It opens and ends rather tragically, but there is much echt-Tubin energy in the middle stretch. Great piece.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2009, 02:29:28 AM
I have added Tubin's Tenth to my list of favourites (after 1, 4 and 6). It's in one movement of about 25 minutes, and it manages this form very well. It opens and ends rather tragically, but there is much echt-Tubin energy in the middle stretch. Great piece.

This is one of my favourites too (with nos 1,2 and 4), although they are all good. I often play No 10; a great work.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on December 23, 2009, 05:44:34 AM
I have added Tubin's Tenth to my list of favourites (after 1, 4 and 6). It's in one movement of about 25 minutes, and it manages this form very well. It opens and ends rather tragically, but there is much echt-Tubin energy in the middle stretch. Great piece.

If you're able to add the Eight and perhaps even Seventh to your series as wel, we'll be in complete agreement.  :-*
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on December 24, 2009, 01:01:06 AM
This is one of my favourites too (with nos 1,2 and 4), although they are all good. I often play No 10; a great work.
Yes, it seems to distill the Tubin essence.


If you're able to add the Eighth and perhaps even Seventh to your series as wel, we'll be in complete agreement.  :-*
I'll work on it.  8)

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2011, 08:24:38 PM
I went through a Tubin phase myself about a year or so ago. I bought all of Jarvi's BIS recordings. I didn't want the box as it doesn't contain many of the extras that came on the individual releases. I'm proud I went this route. Anyway, Tubin's music sounds like to me a curious mixture of RVW with a bit of Martinu, Sibelius, and Bax thrown into the mix. Does this sound accurate? Of the symphonies, which I'm going to be listening to again, I remember liking the first (the first movement alone is a masterpiece), second, fourth, and seventh, though, like I said, I'm going to go back and familiarize myself with his symphonies again. His neglect is in a sense understandable as he never really put his roots down anywhere (he was born in Estonia, but during the Soviet takeover moved to Sweden). I don't think the Swedish people adopted him as one of their own as Tubin pretty much faded into obscurity until the end of his life. Thanks to Jarvi a revival sparked an interest in this composer and thus resulting in what I think was one of the greatest orchestral series of the past 30 years or so.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 05, 2011, 01:57:06 AM
Tubin's music sounds like to me a curious mixture of RVW with a bit of Martinu, Sibelius, and Bax thrown into the mix. Does this sound accurate?

More or less. It's fairly standard mainstream 20th c. symphonism. That's not meant to be a putdown; I like some of it myself.

Quote
His neglect is in a sense understandable as he never really put his roots down anywhere (he was born in Estonia, but during the Soviet takeover moved to Sweden). I don't think the Swedish people adopted him as one of their own as Tubin pretty much faded into obscurity until the end of his life.

Ironically, I think the only commercial recording of Tubin symphonies during his lifetime was a disc of symphonies 6 and 10, released on Melodiya, the offical Soviet (!) record label. Western labels completely ignored him until BIS started to record him in the 1980s.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J on May 05, 2011, 07:31:52 AM
Could anyone speak more specifically about the differences in interpretive perspective between the BIS & Alba recordings? 
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J on May 05, 2011, 07:49:52 AM
Reading just now one Amazon reviewers' take on Volmer's (Alba) recording of Symphonies 4&7, he speaks of a "subtlety" in Volmer's approach which "allows details more of a chance to breathe" compared to Jarvi's "thrust, dramatic edge, & high powered impetus".   Anyone else hear this sort of difference between Jarvi & Volmer in No.4 - and if so does it generally extend over the entire cycle?  Are Volmer's tempos on the whole substantially slower than Jarvi's?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 05, 2011, 08:03:51 AM
I once asked my friend and fellow GMG member Christo the same question in 2007. This is what he answered (and I translate from the Dutch):


"Both cycles are good. My personal favourites:
First: ?, Second: Volmer Third: Järvi, Fourth: Järvi, Fifth: Volmer, Sixth: Järvi, Seventh: Volmer, Eighth: Volmer, Ninth: Volmer, Tenth: Järvi, Eleventh: Volmer (Järvi never recorded this, though he once gave it in Amsterdam). Volmer is less impetuous than Järvi, and that pays off in, especially, the Seventh, Eighth and Ninth, but Järvi has more passion, which gives his readings of the Fourth, Sixth and Tenth more power.

In short: both Järvi and Volmer are excellent. You can't go wrong with either of them."
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 05, 2011, 08:04:19 AM
Reading just now one Amazon reviewers' take on Volmer's (Alba) recording of Symphonies 4&7, he speaks of a "subtlety" in Volmer's approach which "allows details more of a chance to breathe" compared to Jarvi's "thrust, dramatic edge, & high powered impetus".   Anyone else hear this sort of difference between Jarvi & Volmer in No.4 -

As it happens I can compare their respective approaches only in #4. I think Volmer is better in almost every way: better sound, more secure playing (I doubt Jarvi's Norwegian provincial orchestra had ever touched this music before), more details coming to the surface, and IMHO no lack of drive in his approach. I don't think Jarvi is bad; he's just surpassed by Volmer in most of the ways that matter.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 16, 2012, 09:28:07 PM
I really want those Volmer Tubin recordings but it appears that several of them are out-of-print. Anyone know why? This is unacceptable especially for a CDCDCD patient. :D

Anyway, the recording of the complete ballet of Kratt really looks tempting, but all of these Volmer recordings are so expensive.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
Bought this recording last night:

(http://puckette.com/images/111822f.jpg)

The only complete recording of the ballet Kratt. I didn't even know this recording existed until a month ago! How sorry I am coming to this recording so late even after hearing all of the other orchestral works mutliple times. :-[ But from the little I sampled via NML, Kratt is going to be amazing. I always liked the suite from Jarvi and always thought why doesn't somebody release the full ballet? My prayers have been answered. 8)

Anyone else familiar with this work and this recording? Volmer seems to be a highly acclaimed interpreter of Tubin seeing as he's already recorded the symphonies.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 06:01:41 PM
What a sad life Tubin lived. He, of course, lived in Sweden for a good portion of his life due to Soviet occupancy of Estonia. His music as I continue to listen reveals, especially in the later works, a feeling of homesickness and depression that the country he once knew would never regain it's independence. Of course, this isn't true as Estonia finally gained independence in 1991. If only Tubin had lived to see this, he would have died a happy man.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: PaulR on January 25, 2012, 06:15:57 PM
MI, curious, are familiar with Tubin's Double Bass Concerto?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on January 25, 2012, 06:27:18 PM
What a sad life Tubin lived. He, of course, lived in Sweden for a good portion of his life due to Soviet occupancy of Estonia. His music as I continue to listen reveals, especially in the later works, a feeling of homesickness and depression that the country he once knew would never regain it's independence. Of course, this isn't true as Estonia finally gained independence in 1991. If only Tubin had lived to see this, he would have died a happy man.

Hard to say this but tormented composers leave us the best music. There are only so many Haydns, Dvoraks, Handels ...

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 07:07:35 PM
MI, curious, are familiar with Tubin's Double Bass Concerto?

Yes, Paul, I'm quite familiar with it. I've it heard it a few times. A nice piece if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 07:08:00 PM
Hard to say this but tormented composers leave us the best music. There are only so many Haydns, Dvoraks, Handels ...

Define tormented composers. All composers are tormented in some way or another or else they wouldn't feel the need to write music.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on January 25, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
Define tormented composers.

I am not a composer so please don't torment me with that question.





(I am a tormented poet, though...)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: PaulR on January 25, 2012, 07:33:04 PM
Yes, Paul, I'm quite familiar with it. I've it heard it a few times. A nice piece if I remember correctly.
'Twas merely a question.  :P

I would classify it as the best concerto written for the bass....but a major problem with it is that it's over-orchestrated for the bass
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on January 25, 2012, 07:41:07 PM
I would classify it as the best concerto written for the bass....but a major problem with it is that it's over-orchestrated for the bass

He surely composed the best concerto for balalaika, not that the competition in that genre is particularly fierce.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 07:41:48 PM
'Twas merely a question.  :P

I would classify it as the best concerto written for the bass....but a major problem with it is that it's over-orchestrated for the bass

What other works by Tubin have you heard, Paul?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: PaulR on January 25, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
Most of the symphonies from the Jarvi set, and the music from the bass concerto disc
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 25, 2012, 08:04:00 PM
Most of the symphonies from the Jarvi set, and the music from the bass concerto disc

Cool, I'm glad at least you're familiar with his idiom. I really admire his later symphonies, but the 1st and 4th are especially memorable for me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 25, 2012, 10:08:12 PM
What a sad life Tubin lived. He, of course, lived in Sweden for a good portion of his life due to Soviet occupancy of Estonia. His music as I continue to listen reveals, especially in the later works, a feeling of homesickness and depression that the country he once knew would never regain it's independence. Of course, this isn't true as Estonia finally gained independence in 1991. If only Tubin had lived to see this, he would have died a happy man.

An interesting side point to this, however, is that he made several trips back to Estonia during the 1960s, mainly to promote his own works in his homeland. His work was even recorded by Melodiya, the official Soviet record company. This was characteristic of the "Thaw" period - I think his first visit was made about the same time as Stravinsky's triumphant return to Russia.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 26, 2012, 07:43:15 AM
An interesting side point to this, however, is that he made several trips back to Estonia during the 1960s, mainly to promote his own works in his homeland. His work was even recorded by Melodiya, the official Soviet record company. This was characteristic of the "Thaw" period - I think his first visit was made about the same time as Stravinsky's triumphant return to Russia.

I knew he made several trips back but he never lived there again.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on January 26, 2012, 10:26:27 AM
Anyone else familiar with this work and this recording? Volmer seems to be a highly acclaimed interpreter of Tubin seeing as he's already recorded the symphonies.

He definitely is. Yes, I own the cd, for a couple of years already. But no: didn't find time to play it really. Love all the symphonies dearly though, especially the later ones (6-10) and the Lirica (no. 4).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 26, 2012, 06:48:01 PM
He definitely is. Yes, I own the cd, for a couple of years already. But no: didn't find time to play it really. Love all the symphonies dearly though, especially the later ones (6-10) and the Lirica (no. 4).

You haven't listened to Kratt yet? ??? Oh my...

You're going to have to remedy this, Christo as soon as possible!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on January 27, 2012, 12:19:43 PM
You haven't listened to Kratt yet? ??? Oh my...

You're going to have to remedy this, Christo as soon as possible!

 :o ;D Yessir!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 27, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
A former colleague of mind said that Tubin's fine 4th Symphony reminded him always of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony' - an interesting point. My enthusiasm for Tubin remains undimmed. If you like him try Raid's Symphony No 1 on Chandos - a magnificent score.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Lethevich on January 27, 2012, 01:23:41 PM
A former colleague of mind said that Tubin's fine 4th Symphony reminded him always of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony' - an interesting point. My enthusiasm for Tubin remains undimmed. If you like him try Raid's Symphony No 1 on Chandos - a magnificent score.

It feels very strongly like RVW filtered through Sibelius to me - perhaps this is why it functions as a "Tubin for people who don't like* Tubin" for me at the moment.

*Hyperbole - ambivalent is the more accurate word.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Dundonnell on January 27, 2012, 04:12:39 PM
How do Tubin admirers respond to the following criticisms (from the Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers):

"Their(the symphonies) failings are their unmemorable melodies and moments of banality(eg the quasi-jazz rhythms crossed with Khachaturian-like melodic line of the second movement of the sixth symphony); overall they add little to the body of symphonic language or structure."

It has to be said however that Mark Morris (the author) does have many complimentary things to say about individual symphonies and praises "the Scandinavian inevitability, the earnestness of an exile" and the "generally dark-hued view of the world".

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope". The concerti and non-symphonic orchestral music are dismissed as "anachronistic, trite, totally overblown and unmemorable".

I happen to love the Tubin symphonies and would reject Morris's criticisms but it would be interesting to hear a response from others.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Lethevich on January 27, 2012, 04:25:02 PM
I am sympathetic towards a composer writing in this manner, and if it helps, and I feel a similar "difficulty" to the quoted individual. Specifically, I feel a sense of a somewhat impersonal, slightly eclectic style that was not fully internalised as well as comparable composers. It's not a case of the technique of this type of composition being beyond the composer, because his music peaks of a great ability, but the fluidity of language that I seek, even in angular composers such as Shostakovich, is not fully present in much of Tubin's music. This can at times make the symphonies feel a bit cold in so far as I can clearly see what Tubin is trying to do, but often the works do not feel the sum of their parts. The essential spark of conceptual clarity, thematic inspiration, etc, somewhere along the way seems to this listener not to ignite, though it is painfully near to doing so.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 28, 2012, 01:16:16 AM

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope".

I'm glad to see someone sticking up for #7. It seldom seems to get mentioned, even among Tubin fans. But he's right about purposeful construction - it manages to be dramatic, brooding, and compact all at the same time, without the meandering that sometimes affects his symphonies.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 28, 2012, 06:22:33 AM
How do Tubin admirers respond to the following criticisms (from the Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers):

"Their(the symphonies) failings are their unmemorable melodies and moments of banality(eg the quasi-jazz rhythms crossed with Khachaturian-like melodic line of the second movement of the sixth symphony); overall they add little to the body of symphonic language or structure."

It has to be said however that Mark Morris (the author) does have many complimentary things to say about individual symphonies and praises "the Scandinavian inevitability, the earnestness of an exile" and the "generally dark-hued view of the world".

He clearly admires Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6 and No.7 "perhaps the most impressive of the cycle in its purposeful construction and its scope". The concerti and non-symphonic orchestral music are dismissed as "anachronistic, trite, totally overblown and unmemorable".

I happen to love the Tubin symphonies and would reject Morris's criticisms but it would be interesting to hear a response from others.

What a load of old rubbish! I mean the Pimlico Dictionary remarks - not your post Colin  ;D

I must listen to No 7, which I hardly know. I think that the symphonies are full of memorable thematic material and convey a strong sense of organic growth and a feeling for nature. Admirers of Tubin might like the Kinsella, Raid and Lilburn symphonies (Nos 1 and 2 at least).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on January 28, 2012, 08:45:36 AM
What a load of old rubbish! I mean the Pimlico Dictionary remarks - not you post Colin  ;D

I must listen to No 7, which I hardly know. I think that the symphonies are full of memorable thematic material and convey a strong sense of organic growth and a feeling for nature. Admirers of Tubin might like the Kinsella, Raid and Lilburn symphonies (Nos 1 and 2 at least).
Makes me want to hear them even more! ;D I have a twenty five year old off air cassette copy of No 2,which still works perfectly (and a working cassette deck,fortunately! :)). I remember being very impressed at the time. But I STILL haven't bought a cd of it!!!!
I also have an elderly & still playable, off air cassette of No 7,which I enjoyed,but again I have yet to buy a cd copy!!!!!
I wonder why? I did enjoy them,I DID like them,ESPECIALLY No 2,but they lacked that special quality which made me want to rush & buy a copy,unlike some other off the beaten track symphonists I can think off. Also,I notice that,while at the time of Tubin's 'rediscovery' (c80's?) there seem to have been allot of rave reviews,since then,opinion seems to have palled & I have seen allot of negative opinions which keep putting me off!
Yet,this has never stopped me from buying cds of Langgaard,Brian,or even Bax?!!!!

By the way,I'm going to have to get that book,Dundonnell. But I fear that if I put it in the bathroom,with the old Penguin CD/Cassette guides,National Geographics,Which Magazines & IRR back issues,I'll never leave the seat!!!!!! :o
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2012, 09:29:19 AM
I really want Volmer's Tubin series on Alba. I can only hope a box set will be released but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2012, 09:36:58 AM
:o ;D Yessir!

:D

All Tubin fans need the complete ballet of Kratt. I can't tell you how many times I read a review where somebody said "Jarvi's Kratt is great but I wish he would have recorded the whole work." It seems to me, looking at Jarvi's discography, that he's not much of a ballet conductor. I know he conducted several of Stravinsky's ballets and Prokofiev's The Prodigal Son, but it seems he favors the suites over the full works. I never understood why, but I have to thank conductors like Volmer who took upon himself to record the whole work.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cjvinthechair on January 30, 2012, 02:21:49 AM
Glorious composer - thanks for everyone's insight.
 Unless I've missed it, slightly surprised nobody's mentioned the 'Requiem for Fallen Soldiers', coupled with Sym. 10 on BIS. Maybe 'tortured' souls sometimes express themselves best in sung works?
                                                                                      Any thoughts ?                 Clive.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2012, 10:55:17 AM
Have been listening to the Volmer version of Symphony No 3. It opens at a slower tempo than the Jarvi recording on BIS and is all the more moving as a consequence.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scarpia on August 07, 2012, 01:01:39 PM
My problem with Tubin is that just when the music is getting good, someone hits a tam-tam with a sledge hammer and I have to revert to hands-over-ears posture.

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on August 07, 2012, 07:14:39 PM
My problem with Tubin is that just when the music is getting good, someone hits a tam-tam with a sledge hammer and I have to revert to hands-over-ears posture.

But I love tam tams hit with a sledge hammer! *big Christopher Rouse fan*

Sometimes you just have to let loose and enjoy something in all of its visceral nature. Not all music is supposed to be comfortable.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scarpia on August 07, 2012, 07:26:27 PM
But I love tam tams hit with a sledge hammer! *big Christopher Rouse fan*

Sometimes you just have to let loose and enjoy something in all of its visceral nature. Not all music is supposed to be comfortable.

I like "uncomfortable" music, but there is a difference between a devastating harmony or a piercing orchestration and someone hitting a big metal plate with a mallet and drowning out a 100 piece orchestra! 
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 07, 2012, 07:54:13 PM
I like "uncomfortable" music, but there is a difference between a devastating harmony or a piercing orchestration and someone hitting a big metal plate with a mallet and drowning out a 100 piece orchestra!

Then you should try the 7th Symphony, which has no percussion at all until the finale, and then only timpani.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scarpia on August 07, 2012, 08:09:19 PM
Then you should try the 7th Symphony, which has no percussion at all until the finale, and then only timpani.

Sounds like a good tip.   My recent exposure to Tubin was Jarvi's recording of 3 and 8:



Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on August 07, 2012, 10:41:22 PM
I like "uncomfortable" music, but there is a difference between a devastating harmony or a piercing orchestration and someone hitting a big metal plate with a mallet and drowning out a 100 piece orchestra!

I'm curious as to which symphony (and which movement, and which recording) you are talking about here. Maybe there's something like a balance issue going on in that particular recording, or something like that. I'm not at all up on my Tubin either, anyways.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scarpia on August 08, 2012, 03:52:12 AM
I'm curious as to which symphony (and which movement, and which recording) you are talking about here. Maybe there's something like a balance issue going on in that particular recording, or something like that. I'm not at all up on my Tubin either, anyways.

See prior post.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: pencils on August 08, 2013, 10:27:07 AM
Revisiting Tubin's symphonies tonight after too long a lay off. I appreciate all the symphonies, tbh, but was always a lover of 4, 7 and 10 in particular. Tonight, it is the bombast of 5 which is floating my boat.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 11:02:58 AM
Revisiting Tubin's symphonies tonight after too long a lay off. I appreciate all the symphonies, tbh, but was always a lover of 4, 7 and 10 in particular. Tonight, it is the bombast of 5 which is floating my boat.

Any length of absence from Tubin's music is too long! :D I love his music, especially Symphonies 1-5. I admire the later symphonies, but the lyrical exuberance and Romantic passion and drama of the early symphonies is more to my liking than the gloomier and sparer later symphonies. Symphony no. 4 is a gorgeous piece with the same kind of pastoral (but not untroubled) lyricism as VW 5.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: pencils on August 08, 2013, 11:20:56 AM
Any length of absence from Tubin's music is too long! :D I love his music, especially Symphonies 1-5. I admire the later symphonies, but the lyrical exuberance and Romantic passion and drama of the early symphonies is more to my liking than the gloomier and sparer later symphonies. Symphony no. 4 is a gorgeous piece with the same kind of pastoral (but not untroubled) lyricism as VW 5.

Pardon? I can't hear you over the banging percussion  :D

But very much agreed.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 11:31:46 AM
Pardon? I can't hear you over the banging percussion  :D

But very much agreed.

You want banging percussion? Try Leifs' Hekla (or any of his orchestral works for that matter), Chavez's Sinfonia india or Glass' Concerto for Two Timpanists, all of which make Tubin 5's percussion part sound tame by comparison! :D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: pencils on August 08, 2013, 11:35:30 AM
You want banging percussion? Try Leifs' Hekla (or any of his orchestral works for that matter), Chavez's Sinfonia india or Glass' Concerto for Two Timpanists, all of which make Tubin 5's percussion part sound tame by comparison! :D

I know the Glass and the Chavez, but the Leifs I have not heard yet. Probably a good thing for my ears at this rate  :P
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 11:50:11 AM
I know the Glass and the Chavez, but the Leif I have not heard yet. Probably a good thing for my ears at this rate  :P

Leifs was one of the most individualistic composers of the 20th century, a fact that he is very rarely given credit for. Perhaps his isolation from the rest of Europe (he was Icelandic) allowed him to create such individualistic music. Anyways, BIS has produced an stupendous Leifs series that I highly recommend to anyone with even a passing interest in 20th century music. Leifs was able to conjure up some of the most primal, volcanic sounds ever heard in his orchestral music. Despite its rawness and dissonance, it's strangely accessible music that I found immediately fascinating and appealing on first hearing. All that said, he was also composed music of icy, mysterious Nordic beauty. Do investigate this guy's music! :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on August 08, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
I'll just throw this out there. Do NOT listen to Leifs' Hekla with earphones on. You will go deaf. Not an exaggeration. The same goes with the two other pieces I'd consider exceedingly loud (and great): Christopher Rouse's Gorgon and John Corigliano's Circus Maximus. They also make the Tubin 5th symphony percussion part look like nothing.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 12:06:06 PM
Kalevi Aho's orchestral works have some great percussion parts (try Symphony no. 12 or Symphonic Dances), though they are not as ear-splittingly loud as some of Leifs' works. Also, James MacMillan really gets the percussion section going in some of his fearsome climaxes.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: pencils on August 08, 2013, 12:53:52 PM
I'll just throw this out there. Do NOT listen to Leifs' Hekla with earphones on. You will go deaf. Not an exaggeration.

Hmm. I listen to everything with earphones  :(

Bleh.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 12:58:57 PM
Hmm. I listen to everything with earphones  :(

Bleh.

Same here. Just listen to it at a low volume level and you should be fine (I hope). Whatever way you listen to it, it is an experience you will never forget!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 06:17:54 PM
Leifs was one of the most individualistic composers of the 20th century, a fact that he is very rarely given credit for. Perhaps his isolation from the rest of Europe (he was Icelandic) allowed him to create such individualistic music. Anyways, BIS has produced an stupendous Leifs series that I highly recommend to anyone with even a passing interest in 20th century music. Leifs was able to conjure up some of the most primal, volcanic sounds ever heard in his orchestral music. Despite its rawness and dissonance, it's strangely accessible music that I found immediately fascinating and appealing on first hearing. All that said, he was also composed music of icy, mysterious Nordic beauty. Do investigate this guy's music! :)

I heartily second Kyle's recommendation of Leifs. The BIS series is essential listening IMHO for 20th Century fans. No doubt about it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 06:24:38 PM
My favorite Tubin symphonies are 1, 4, 7, and 10. I also love Kratt (complete ballet w/ Volmer on Alba a must buy!!!), the Piano Concertino, and Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs. I also enjoy his Requiem for Fallen Soldiers.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on August 08, 2013, 07:14:41 PM
I also love Kraft (complete ballet w/ Volmer on Alba a must buy!!!)

It's actually called Kratt. Kraft is a great work by Magnus Lindberg!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 07:21:17 PM
It's actually called Kratt. Kraft is a great work by Magnus Lindberg!

Right you are. I must be thinking about good ol' Lindberg. :) Speaking of Lindberg, I need to give his early works a listen very soon. Kraft is on my list of works to rediscover.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on December 06, 2013, 04:27:58 PM
Finally giving Tubin's complete ballet Kratt a spin. I had not listened to it since tasting that suite on the Järvi set, and that was some time ago. I'm such a sucker for Stravinsky-tinged scores such as this. Really enjoying this so far.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on February 01, 2014, 09:37:33 AM
Today's eClassical Deal of the Day has a note from BIS CEO Robert von Bahr that I find unbearably sad.

"When I first got to know Neeme Järvi, in the beginning of the '80:s when we were discussing the Sibelius cycle, he tested me by playing a cassette tape for me, asking: well, Robert, who is this? I listened and listened. No, of course not Sibelius. Something towards Shostakovich, but I know his music and this wasn't among it. So I had to give up. Neeme told me: Eduard Tubin. Aha, and who's that? Turned out to be a man, refugee from Estonia, living less than 1 km from me 10 years ago, when I started BIS. A composer of 10 symphonies, concerti, anything, eking out an existence by being a music copier for other composers. Great music. So Neeme and I took a decision at that moment: we should record everything Tubin had composed. We kept very silent about it - the pieces were obviously performed, but Tubin knew nothing of the recording plans. We expected to go to his home and present him with the first 2 records and tell him the good news as soon as they were released. And then he dies!! So he never got to know the plans, he couldn't listen to the recordings, and I never met him. I learned something there, and this mistake will not be repeated. Anyway, we have done it, the records are there, and Tubin has got the place among Music's greats that he so richly deserves. This is as good an intro as any - the S2 is really great!"

This blurb will only be online today, and so will the 50% off download discount (http://www.eclassical.com/pages/daily-deal.html) (MP3 or FLAC for $4.72)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 01, 2014, 09:45:49 AM
Today's eClassical Deal of the Day has a note from BIS CEO Robert von Bahr that I find unbearably sad.

"When I first got to know Neeme Järvi, in the beginning of the '80:s when we were discussing the Sibelius cycle, he tested me by playing a cassette tape for me, asking: well, Robert, who is this? I listened and listened. No, of course not Sibelius. Something towards Shostakovich, but I know his music and this wasn't among it. So I had to give up. Neeme told me: Eduard Tubin. Aha, and who's that? Turned out to be a man, refugee from Estonia, living less than 1 km from me 10 years ago, when I started BIS. A composer of 10 symphonies, concerti, anything, eking out an existence by being a music copier for other composers. Great music. So Neeme and I took a decision at that moment: we should record everything Tubin had composed. We kept very silent about it - the pieces were obviously performed, but Tubin knew nothing of the recording plans. We expected to go to his home and present him with the first 2 records and tell him the good news as soon as they were released. And then he dies!! So he never got to know the plans, he couldn't listen to the recordings, and I never met him. I learned something there, and this mistake will not be repeated. Anyway, we have done it, the records are there, and Tubin has got the place among Music's greats that he so richly deserves. This is as good an intro as any - the S2 is really great!"

Certainly is a sad, but I don't think it wasn't a 'mistake' to surprise Tubin with the recordings. Their heart was certainly in the right. I don't think Jarvi nor Bahr could have foreseen something like this happening. You just never know what's going on. I still think so highly Tubin's music and this series with Jarvi is absolutely incredible in every way.

Here's a response I wrote on Amazon to someone who was saying that Tubin was nothing more than a Shostakovich clone and that Tubin's life experiences were nothing compared to Shostakovich's (as if this is some twisted competition of who's life is the most morbid):

"I think it's sad when a reviewer pretends to know something about a composer when they clearly don't understand the history that surrounds the composer. You seriously think Tubin sat cozily in Sweden? He fled to Sweden because of the Soviet Union, which took over Estonia after the country had just gained it's independence. Tubin might not have had the same kind of problems a composer like Shostakovich had, but this doesn't make his experiences any less tragic. There's a desperation, sadness, and feeling of longing that runs through much of Tubin's music much the same way Martinu longed for the Czech Republic when he lived in United States or the way Vaughan Williams experienced WWI and knowing that the England as he knew it was never going to be the same. These are real experiences and ones that changed these composer's lives.

You can continue to bad mouth the music all you want to and it's fine that you do, you're not obligated to like the music, but I think you do need to get your facts straight before you attempt to fool people into believing you know the composer's history when it's evident that you never bothered."
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on February 01, 2014, 10:03:38 AM
Yes, I think that it is very sad too about Tubin - the first CD I bought was of his second and sixth symphonies on BIS and he remains one of my favourite composers.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on February 01, 2014, 01:14:57 PM
I think I heard - from Harri Kiisk - or otherwise read that Tubin actually was there, in person, at the performance of the Fourth Symphony, 'Lirica', at 5 November 1981 in Bergen in Norway, the only live recording in Neeme Järvi's cycle. So at least he witnessed the start of the cycle.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on February 02, 2014, 12:37:25 AM
I think I heard - from Harri Kiisk - or otherwise read that Tubin actually was there, in person, at the performance of the Fourth Symphony, 'Lirica', at 5 November 1981 in Bergen in Norway, the only live recording in Neeme Järvi's cycle. So at least he witnessed the start of the cycle.


I do hope that is true. Havergal Brian, despite living to a great age died just as interest in his work was reviving and the first recordings (recently reissued) were underway.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 05, 2014, 07:56:22 AM
After tolerating off air cassette recordings of Tubin's Second and Sixth symphonies,one of them over twenty years old,and still in gwo,I might add,I finally snapped today and ordered some Tubin cds! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on August 06, 2014, 12:25:54 AM
After tolerating off air cassette recordings of Tubin's Second and Sixth symphonies,one of them over twenty years old,and still in gwo,I might add,I finally snapped today and ordered some Tubin cds! ??? ;D

You won't regret it. The Baxian No 1, the epic No 2 'Legendary' and nos 3,4,5 and 10 are my favourites.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scion7 on August 06, 2014, 04:07:04 AM
from the Grove:

Tubin, Eduard
(b Alatskivi, nr Kallaste, 18 June 1905; d Stockholm, 17 Nov 1982). Estonian composer, active in Sweden. He ranks as one of the most prominent international figures in the history of Estonian art music, the early development of which coincided with Tsar Alexander II's liberalizations of the mid-19th century. An Estonian style of composition was widely sought over the brief period of independence from Russian occupation (1918–40), a span demarcated almost exactly by Tubin's first compositions and his arrival at his mature style. Tubin studied in Tartu with Eller, and first gained attention as a composer with his Second Symphony (1937) at a time when he was making his living as an orchestral and choral conductor. Tubin fled to Sweden the day before the Soviet army reoccupied the Estonian capital in September 1944, and he remained there until his death. Some two years after his arrival in Sweden he finished the dramatic and nationalist Fifth Symphony with which Malko, Schmidt-Isserstedt and others first introduced him to audiences abroad. Tubin was able to return to Soviet Estonia several times during and after the Krushchyov period: he wrote his two operas for the Estonia Theatre in Tallinn. Several Swedish honours came to Tubin in his last decade, among them state grants, the prestigious Atterberg Prize and membership of the Royal Music Academy. The conductor Neeme Järvi began a recorded survey of Tubin's music for the BIS label shortly before the composer's death, and in 1995 the Estonian National Library acquired Tubin's manuscripts.
Tubin's career began at a time when nationalist-romantic and modernist currents overlapped in independent Estonia. As Rumessen (1986) has pointed out, Tubin's nationalism subsumed the work of three Estonian forebears: the drama and large-scale forms of Tobias, the subtle orchestral virtuosity of Eller (who, like most Estonian composers of his generation, studied in St Petersburg), and Saar's attempt to meld Estonian folklore with a nationalist concert style. As with Sibelius, however, Tubin made his international reputation with symphonies that lack folkloristic elements: although he often recalled the modality and intervallic constructions of Estonian folksong, only the Fifth of his ten completed symphonies quotes a specific Estonian tune. His work also allies itself more with French and Russian styles (Stravinsky’s rhythmic intensity, Honegger's extended tonality) than with the Nordic style of Sibelius or the Germanic manner of Stenhammar.
Tubin's first three symphonies, nationalist in tone and epic in scale, . . .  reflects Tubin's interest in Skryabin as well as his debt to Eller's brand of impressionism. The radiant, lyrical and transparent Fourth Symphony – at least in its 1978 abbreviation and revision – evokes idealized, pastoral images rather than the turmoil of Estonia's occupation. Tubin's Sixth was marked by a passing interest in jazz and Latin dance rhythms, and is his most ironic and cosmopolitan work. The four remaining completed symphonies, with the exception of the expressive Eighth, are neo-classical to varying degrees. In this, they might reflect the composer's work between 1945 and 1972 in preparing performing editions of Alessandro and Domenico Scarlatti and Mozart's La finta semplice for the Drottningholm Court Theatre.
Tubin, in a similar way to Nielsen, Prokofiev and Honegger, brought a narrative theatricality to concert genres. From the beginning he displayed an instinctive and impeccable grasp of polyphony and large-scale structures, yet his orientation is essentially linear and dramatic.  . . .
Tubin's harmonic language ranges from free chromaticism to mild polytonality: he professed a distaste for Schoenbergian atonality and twelve-note techniques and an inclination towards the strict voice-leading rules of the ‘Palestrina style’. Tubin's taste for archaisms also manifested itself in his operas' inclination towards feudal Estonian subjects. The Reekviem langenud sõduritele (‘Requiem for Fallen Soldiers’) completed in 1979 stands out among his contributions to the song and choral traditions of his native country; it has no connection with the Latin mass, being based instead on Estonian wartime lyrics. The String Quartet is another late and often diatonically-orientated work, based entirely on folk dances and ending with a characteristic fugue fashioned from this material. His varied output also includes several solo concertos, orchestral and instrumental arrangements of folk tunes, chamber works for strings especially, and the folk ballet Kratt.

Chamber Music:
Pf Qt, c, 1930;
Sonata no.1, vn, pf, 1936, rev. 1969;
Süit eesti tantsuviisidest [Suite on Estonian Dance Tunes], vn, pf, 1943;
Sonata no.2, vn, pf, 1949, rev. 1976;
Sonata, a sax, pf, 1951;
Sonata, vn, 1962;
Sonata, va, pf, 1965;
Sonata, fl, pf, 1979;
Keelpillikvartett (eesti pillilugudele) [Str Qt on Estonian Motifs], 1979;
.... other works for vn, vc, and str qt
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 08, 2014, 12:30:01 AM
Bought all the BIS Tubin symphony cds separately from Amazon sellers. They all arrived today in a pile on my door mat. Why didn't I buy the box set and save money?! Various reasons. I had ancient old off air tapes of No's 2 & 6. I thought I'd just buy one or two of the most highly rated (going by GMG posts). Of course,the same old story.....I just couldn't resist the rest!! Also,I suppose the anorak in me! I tend to prefer original issues with all the artwork and liners. And you can cradle them lovingly in your hand while you listen......and.........[the remainder of this post has been censored!!]

You know the feeling?!! ??? :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 08, 2014, 03:44:24 AM
Listening to the Fourth symphony now! This is marvelous stuff! Of course,I must be bonkers,but there are a few passages in the third movement,which really do sound a bit like Bax at his most passionate and romantic! ??? Of course I'm imagining this!! ::) ;D I know from the posts here that the Fourth is highly regarded and a bit of a favourite amongst admirers of this composer. This really is glorious music. So far I have listened to the Second,Sixth,Third and Eighth. I enjoyed them all,particularly the superb Second and viscerally exciting Sixth;but this one really is 'something else',as they say! Or what about just,"Wow!" ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2014, 03:50:47 AM
Jeffrey and cilgwyn, I'd appreciate it if you would solve for x . . . the best Tubin symphony for a listener who may not care for Bax.  Any answer you propose will be earnestly considered  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 08, 2014, 04:16:13 AM
You won't regret it. The Baxian No 1, the epic No 2 'Legendary' and nos 3,4,5 and 10 are my favourites.
Uh-oh! ??? I see what you mean! I haven't even got to that one,yet!!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 08, 2014, 04:19:35 AM
Listening to No 5 now,Karl! This one doesn't sound like Bax,yet!!

Uh-oh?!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2014, 04:26:09 AM
Hah!

Don't raise my hopes, just to dash 'em to pieces, friend! 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2014, 04:47:12 AM
Well, they are all good. Cilgwyn will now have to buy the Alba set (all separate releases no box set).  8). I have the BIS box AND the separate issues - how is that for CD OCD nutterdom? A friend said that No 4 (the cover of which on the BIS single CD release appears to show Tubin about to step into a partially submerged boat) reminded him of A Pastoral Symphony by Vaughan Williams. It is perhaps the ideal intro to Tubin. I find the end of the slow movement of No 5 (especially in the Jarvi version) very moving. I love No 3 and do not find the last movement bombastic as some do. No 2 'Legendary' is as good as any and wonderfully atmospheric, so Karl I would start with that one. No 1 is quite Baxian and underrated. If you like Tubin you must listen to Symphony No 1 by his compatriot Kaljo Raid - a masterpiece in my view.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2014, 05:00:54 AM
Well, they are all good. Cilgwyn will now have to buy the Alba set (all separate releases no box set).  8). I have the BIS box AND the separate issues - how is that for CD OCD nutterdom? A friend said that No 4 (the cover of which on the BIS single CD release appears to show Tubin about to step into a partially submerged boat) reminded him of A Pastoral Symphony by Vaughan Williams. It is perhaps the ideal intro to Tubin. I find the end of the slow movement of No 5 (especially in the Jarvi version) very moving. I love No 3 and do not find the last movement bombastic as some do. No 2 'Legendary' is as good as any and wonderfully atmospheric, so Karl I would start with that one. No 1 is quite Baxian and underrated. If you like Tubin you must listen to Symphony No 1 by his compatriot Kaljo Raid - a masterpiece in my view.

Thanks.  I am a bit cautious at the edge of the pool because I feel certain that I heard some Tubin in concert while I was in Tallinn, and (though it may mean nothing to my ears today) I remember not thinking much of it at the time.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2014, 05:15:52 AM
Thanks.  I am a bit cautious at the edge of the pool because I feel certain that I heard some Tubin in concert while I was in Tallinn, and (though it may mean nothing to my ears today) I remember not thinking much of it at the time.

Karl I just checked on US Amazon and the BIS CDs with No 4 on and nos 2 and 6 are available at about $3 so if you want to try one why not go for one of those.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2014, 05:17:11 AM
I've given a listen to samples of nos. 4 & 7, and think I'll take a dip.  Thanks, Jeffrey!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2014, 05:19:08 AM
I've given a listen to samples of nos. 4 & 7, and think I'll take a dip.  Thanks, Jeffrey!

Always a pleasure Karl. No 4?is the only live one in the BIS cycle. I think that Tubin was in attendance - I certainly hope so.
PS you like VW so should like No 4.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2014, 05:21:01 AM
This is the one I sampled, Eesti Riiklik Sümfooniaorkester:

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 08, 2014, 06:10:25 AM
Always a pleasure Karl. No 4?is the only live one in the BIS cycle. I think that Tubin was in attendance - I certainly hope so.
PS you like VW so should like No 4.
I wavered over buying this one after reading the Hurwitz complaining about the quality of the recording. I DID listen on Sennheisser wireless headphones,but it sounded pretty stunning to me. And yes,my old Penguin guide is right about the "exceptionally well behaved audience!" I wish they were always like that! I usually avoid live recordings. No problem with this recording,thank goodness!

I like the Sixth,which doesn't seem to get so many accolades here. I find it very exciting. I just wish I was able to blast the neighbours with it,like vandermolen does! Those noisy bits need to be heard on big speakers with mega-bass!

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82) __ Symph. Nr 5 radio broadcast?
Post by: Scion7 on August 31, 2014, 12:03:28 PM
There is a YouTube posting of Symphony Nr.5 purported to be by Jansons & the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra -
can anyone verify this is a valid credit for this?
Oft-times the credits posted by YouTubers are not correct.
Just wondering.  I am not that familiar with Tubin's music and only have the Jarvi of this one.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on September 11, 2014, 08:35:20 PM
I've been listening to the Bis completely and I am favorably impressed with this symphonic cycle.

I'm thinking of getting the Bis disk with the String Quartet and Piano Quartet. Are these up to the same standard as the symphonies?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on September 13, 2014, 05:33:56 AM


I like the Sixth,which doesn't seem to get so many accolades here. I find it very exciting. I just wish I was able to blast the neighbours with it,like vandermolen does! Those noisy bits need to be heard on big speakers with mega-bass!

Hardly! I am constantly being told to 'turn down that noise' or 'must we listen to this?' By the other occupants of this house. The cat enjoys the Tubin though.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on September 14, 2014, 07:13:41 PM
Ok, I’ll answer my own question: yes the BIS Tubin String Quartet disk is well worth getting.

When I first listened to the SQ I thought it must have been an early folkloric work, but something didn’t seem right. When I looked at the date IO realised it was in fact one of Tubin’s last works written in the late 1970s, the older composer looking back at his youth with fondness. There certainly seems to be an autumnal feel to the work. The short piece ‘Elegy’ for SQ is also excellent, but I don’t know what the date of it is.

Of the other works on the disk the Tubin Piano Quartet from the 1930s is good, but not in the same league as the SQ. I was surprised by how good the Tüür SQ was, I had heard some of his symphonies and wasn’t very impressed. But this work seemed to have more of developmental feel about it than those works. Finally there’s a version of Pärt’s Frates for SQ, which is very good.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on September 15, 2014, 02:17:17 AM
Having to answer your own question? :( ;D You should try posting on the Roy Harris thread! ;D
I hope Tubin's String Quartet isn't that good,however! And,I mean that in the best possible way! I'm already getting some funny looks from one of my postman! Thirteen packages of cds in one day!!

NB:I will come back to you on P.S. Like Mirror Image I need to be "in the right mood". I've recently been ploughing through piles of Louis Spohr,Berlioz and Beecham cds. The eras and idiom could clash a little too much!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on September 15, 2014, 05:32:21 AM
The most packages in one day was 23;but that included books. I remember the postman grinned and asked if I had enough to got on with? The same one,incidentally,who told me the water company were looking for an escaped crocodile,when they were digging up the road! Of course I didn't believe him! What the heck would a crocodile be doing in a sewerage pipe in Wales?!!

And back to Tubin........
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on November 08, 2014, 08:59:35 AM
This is a very nice and inexpensive CD which compliments the more epic symphonies. The Piano Concertino is entirely characteristic (from the end of World War Two) and grows on me more and more. The Music for Strings is also eloquent:

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 07, 2014, 01:54:41 AM
Increasingly enjoying Symphony 10 - one of the best I think.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on December 07, 2014, 02:00:27 AM
Increasingly enjoying Symphony 10 - one of the best I think.

From the Tubin to the Kinsella cycle - apparently also an Eleventh in the making - is not a big jump.  ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 07, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
From the Tubin to the Kinsella cycle - apparently also and Eleventh in the making - is not a big jump.  ;)

Definitely, I agree.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on February 22, 2015, 03:45:48 AM
Trawling through the listings for Radio 3 today,I noticed that the afternoon concert next Friday includes Tubin's Sixth symphony. The BBC Philharmonic are playing it,I don't know who the conductor is though. This is the first time I've seen Tubin in the R3 listings for a while. This doesn't seem to be a favourite amongst Tubin's admirers,but I love it. I find it darkly gripping,turbulent,mysterious and exciting. A hint of bombast maybe,here and there;but in a good way!! ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on February 22, 2015, 10:19:15 AM
Trawling through the listings for Radio 3 today,I noticed that the afternoon concert next Friday includes Tubin's Sixth symphony. The BBC Philharmonic are playing it,I don't know who the conductor is though. This is the first time I've seen Tubin in the R3 listings for a while. This doesn't seem to be a favourite amongst Tubin's admirers,but I love it. I find it darkly gripping,turbulent,mysterious and exciting. A hint of bombast maybe,here and there;but in a good way!! ;D

Nice to hear this - thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: lescamil on February 22, 2015, 10:37:40 AM
Trawling through the listings for Radio 3 today,I noticed that the afternoon concert next Friday includes Tubin's Sixth symphony. The BBC Philharmonic are playing it,I don't know who the conductor is though. This is the first time I've seen Tubin in the R3 listings for a while. This doesn't seem to be a favourite amongst Tubin's admirers,but I love it. I find it darkly gripping,turbulent,mysterious and exciting. A hint of bombast maybe,here and there;but in a good way!! ;D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05303mv

Arvo Volmer is the conductor. No surprise here! Seems like it's always the same conductors performing his music.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on February 22, 2015, 12:39:53 PM
Funnily enough the Sixth is the only Tubin symphony I don't like, for the reason Cilgwyn mentioned, the bombast, particularly the ending.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on February 22, 2015, 01:45:16 PM
Funnily enough the Sixth is the only Tubin symphony I don't like, for the reason Cilgwyn mentioned, the bombast, particularly the ending.

My favourites are 1,2,3,4,5 and 10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on February 22, 2015, 03:52:26 PM
Funnily enough the Sixth is the only Tubin symphony I don't like, for the reason Cilgwyn mentioned, the bombast, particularly the ending.

Funnily enough the Sixth is by far my favourite, ever since I first heard it. The first two movements are so strong IMHO that the third could only alter the game and start a huge passacaglia ending not in bombast, but Shostakovichean-grotesque protest against it, i.e. (Soviet) brutality. Spine-tingling, breathtaking.  ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on February 22, 2015, 04:04:32 PM
My favourites are 1,2,3,4,5 and 10.
Haha. Mine almost mirror your choice: Nos. 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, are my first choices. Nos. 3 and 10 follow closely, and No. 5 (that I even heard live, and No. 6 and 11 too) is the odd one out, the only one in the series that I never really came to terms with, though I own all three recordings and did my very best. As said, No. 6 is my favourite, closely followed by the more tongue-in-cheeck No. 8 and the lyrical No. 4.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on February 22, 2015, 04:15:09 PM
Funnily enough the Sixth is the only Tubin symphony I don't like, for the reason Cilgwyn mentioned, the bombast, particularly the ending.
;D The fact that it was the only one I knew for years (apart from the Second) thanks to two still playable off air cassettes (one of them 25yrs old) is another factor,I suppose. Of course,I've got the BIS cycle now. I'm glad to hear that the Sixth has a fan. It is interesting how what I referred to as bombast (maybe it isn't,if you like it?!) has a different effect on calyptorhyncus. I suppose I shouldn't like it really. I'm not so keen on noisy music these days. Khatchaturian got allot of hearings in my youth;usually at a very high volume,with lots of bass! ??? ;D . Now I'm more likely to put on Delius or Moeran;although after hearing Jarvi's Khatchaturian two and an upload of Tjeknavorian's truly exciting reading of his First (none of the other recordings do it justice!) I am starting to like Khatchaturian the symphonist,again! Just not so sure about anything else he composed?!
I should point out,the first Tubin symphony I ever heard was No 2! Then the Sixth.......and nothing else for years. Maybe calyptorhyncus has a point?! Hm?!! Actually,I think it was just the expense,and so much other music on my list to explore.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on February 22, 2015, 04:22:48 PM
Tubin at the Proms would be rather nice! It's funny,these sudden flurries of interest. George Lloyd and Tubin symphonies on R3 (back in the eighties,I think?) and people talking excitedly about their rediscovery,then nothing (much,anyway) for years. I only recently read a very dismissive review of Tubin. Was it Andrew Clements? Something about his music being stuck in the past. I disagreed of course;but he's still one of those off-the-beaten track sort of composers;even if allot of music lovers like 'us' rate him highly.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on February 22, 2015, 07:43:49 PM
Funnily enough the Sixth is by far my favourite, ever since I first heard it. The first two movements are so strong IMHO that the third could only alter the game and start a huge passacaglia ending not in bombast, but Shostakovichean-grotesque protest against it, i.e. (Soviet) brutality. Spine-tingling, breathtaking.  ;)

I've got a horrible feeling that I've got egg on face and it's another symphony I don't like because of an overly triumphant ending. Have to listen to them again...

 :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on February 22, 2015, 11:17:27 PM
Yes, I had a quick listen when I got home... it's No.5 I don't like because of a too triumphant ending.

Generally I think the symphonies get better and better, so my favourites are 7, 8, 9 and 10.

 ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on February 23, 2015, 12:11:58 AM
Tubin at the Proms would be rather nice!
I was happy enough to hear Nos. 5 and 6 live in my home town, Utrecht, under conductors Arvo Volmer and, IIRC, Eri Klas. And also the unfinished No. 11 (only the first movement, completed by Kaljo Raid) with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam under Neeme Järvi. No Proms, perhaps, but not bad either.  ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on February 23, 2015, 12:45:36 AM
2 & 6 were my first encounter with Tubin, and I do like #6, bombast and all!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on February 23, 2015, 02:56:53 AM
A bit of bombast can be allot of fun! Respighi's Roman Festivals,for example. It has it's critics,but I love it! The recent bis cd of the trilogy was particularly spectacular. Pity about the nightingale,but only a minor blemish on a great disc. The finale of George Lloyd's Seventh with it's Star Wars hi-jinks is another one. I do like Tubin's earlier symphonies allot;but I agree with calyptorhyncus that the later ones are even better. His sound world is more subtle,refined and like a good joint,all the excess fat trimmed off. They are more sombre,but you feel better for listening to them. Well,I do! ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 23, 2015, 05:21:03 PM
I think Tubin's 1st and 7th stand out the most to me. That first movement of the 1st is a miniature masterpiece.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
Listening to the first half of the Tubin symphony cycle today. Here are my notes.

No. 1. This one sounds attractive, and has some really striking moments. But it's so disorganized and episodic - stuff happens and it's never clear why. Especially without catchy melodies to help you gain a point of reference, the first two movements fall under the category of "nice enough, but uncompelling" for me. The finale is a bit different, since, for its second half, Tubin finds an idea and sticks to it, developing it more carefully. But this is not going to be my favorite late romantic symphony.

No. 2 "Legendaire." Here Tubin harnesses his apparent penchant for disorganization, and uses it to his advantage. It's a huge advance over the First, while not being any more formally structured. That's because Tubin really takes time to let the episodes develop, and the transitions are much better, too. (As some GMGers have commented, the symphonies do have a lot in common, sound-world-wise.) The "Legendaire" subtitle should be read more as "Mythologique," given the tone of the music. A lot of it sounds truly mythic, like a Lord of the Rings epic or something along those lines. Terrific orchestration, big mighty climaxes. This is not an essential symphony, or anything like that, but it's certainly a lot of fun.

No. 3. It's audacious to start a symphony with a fugue (well, ok, there's a 3-minute introduction). After the fugue ends, the bassoons quote "Dies irae". And the symphony is, of course, in D minor. But that triple threat of old-fashioned-ness is mostly defused, because the fugal material never comes back; neither does Dies irae. Instead the movement shifts to a slow passage and then a surprisingly happy ending. As weird as that portion is, I do like the rest of the symphony. This work is perfectly fine, with its very cool scherzo and a cohesive marchy finale that leaves an unusually strong impression and builds to a big, brassy, weirdly Debussian ending. There are strong Atterbergian echoes. Orchestration again superb - brings to mind what would happen if you put all the French Impressionists in a boat and sailed them to the Baltic.

No. 4 "Lirica." Dave Hurwitz compares this to Vaughan Williams's Symphony No. 5, which (remarkably) was written in the exact same year, 1943. Sibelius's Sixth might also be a decent comparison, in a few respects. The title "Lirica" is well-lived-up-to, with lyricism and long, flowing melody a priority. This is also the first conventionally-structured Tubin symphony, insofar as it has themes and develops them in traditional classical forms. Also, this is the first four-movement symphony with a separate scherzo and andante. (Amazingly, Tubin only wrote 2 four-movement symphonies in 10.5 tries.)

This symphony is not as inspired as RVW's in terms of melody, and its emotional arc may not resonate as strongly (the way RVW's slow movement ties in to the finale...). Also, the final coda is a bit of a letdown to me. But Tubin No. 4 is definitely the highlight of the cycle so far. There is some seriously good stuff here. Volmer's performance is good enough, but I think that a truly world-class conductor/orchestra combo would take this symphony to another level.

No. 5. Wow, a major change in the composer's style. Now Tubin has taken off the jacket of late-romantic harmony and donned the vest of neoclassical rhythmic emphasis. Boy was that a terrible sentence. But he's not so much about jumping around in atmospheric puddles anymore, and has moved on to sterner, more incisive things. I don't get the Prokofiev comparisons; Prokofiev had a more distinctive melodic voice and the Prokian enigmatic voice concealed different emotions from the Tubinian enigmatic voice. There is a faint echo of Sibelius to the slow movement, and Roussel. Is there an organ in there? This is an interesting symphony, and as martial and even bitter as it gets, I like it. Cool timpani part! No. 5 is the other side of No. 4's coin, and while it would be a tough sell in the concert hall, it's an interesting listen.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5
Okay: 3
Meh: 1
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2016, 01:28:44 PM
Look forward to the rest of your write-up on Tubin's symphonies, Brian. My main problem with Tubin, and this is certainly why he's not in my Top 20 or even my Top 50, is there's nothing remotely memorable about his themes or musical ideas. They simply do not stick in my head and leave me wondering about them long after a piece has finished. Is this the only criteria I use to evaluate a composer? Certainly not, but my favorite composers have a strong sense of melody. I'm not too worried about structure as I love rhapsodic music, but when it comes to the symphonic form is when my opinion changes and becomes extremely critical. I enjoy Tubin's music the moment I'm listening to it, but it doesn't really extend beyond that point.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2016, 01:42:23 PM
Look forward to the rest of your write-up on Tubin's symphonies, Brian. My main problem with Tubin, and this is certainly why he's not in my Top 20 or even my Top 50, is there's nothing remotely memorable about his themes or musical ideas. They simply do not stick in my head and leave me wondering about them long after a piece has finished. Is this the only criteria I use to evaluate a composer? Certainly not, but my favorite composers have a strong sense of melody. I'm not too worried about structure as I love rhapsodic music, but when it comes to the symphonic form is when my opinion changes and becomes extremely critical. I enjoy Tubin's music the moment I'm listening to it, but it doesn't really extend beyond that point.

So far, I find a lot to agree with here. Tubin isn't exactly hummable. Melody isn't valuable just for its own sake, though - it's also valuable as a marker for your ears. When you're hearing a symphony for the first time, if you can't easily pick out "Oh, we've heard that idea before," it can lead to real trouble as you figure out where the symphony is going.

I do like rhapsodic music too, but it has to have a certain internal logic and flow - a palpable sense of storytelling or to use another metaphor, journey. If you can sense how one step leads to another, that's good. Sonata form is a traditional and strong way of achieving that, but there are others.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2016, 01:42:54 PM
I enjoy Tubin's music the moment I'm listening to it

I haven´t yet heard a single note of Tubin´s music but it seems to me that your comment would actually please him, or any other composer for that matter. Isn´t that their goal, that people enjoy their music when they hear it?  :D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2016, 01:47:04 PM
I haven´t yet heard a single note of Tubin´s music but it seems to me that your comment would actually please him, or any other composer for that matter. Isn't that their goal, that people enjoy their music when they hear it?  :D

:D

Sure, but it's afterwards where the real problem lies for me. ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2016, 01:51:17 PM
So far, I find a lot to agree with here. Tubin isn't exactly hummable. Melody isn't valuable just for its own sake, though - it's also valuable as a marker for your ears. When you're hearing a symphony for the first time, if you can't easily pick out "Oh, we've heard that idea before," it can lead to real trouble as you figure out where the symphony is going.

I do like rhapsodic music too, but it has to have a certain internal logic and flow - a palpable sense of storytelling or to use another metaphor, journey. If you can sense how one step leads to another, that's good. Sonata form is a traditional and strong way of achieving that, but there are others.

I'll be even more blunt: I need melody --- if I don't have it, then I really become quite uninterested in where the music is going, because there isn't a narrative if there isn't a melody. Of course, music is much more than melodies, but, for me to fully enjoy a piece of music it must have a solid melodic foundation. Harmony is also very important to me, but that's a different matter for a different day.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2016, 01:51:27 PM
:D

Sure, but it's afterwards where the real problem lies for me. ;)

Okay, so afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!". Then when you play it again, you enjoy it. Then afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!" Then when you play it again you enjoy it. Then afterwards etc etc etc.

 :D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2016, 01:54:40 PM
I'll be even more blunt: I need melody --- if I don't have it, then I really become quite uninterested in where the music is going, because there isn't a narrative if there isn't a melody. Of course, music is much more than melodies, but, for me to fully enjoy a piece of music it must have a solid melodic foundation. Harmony is also very important to me, but that's a different matter for a different day.

Sign me up for this manifesto!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2016, 01:59:12 PM
Sign me up for this manifesto!

Your name is now on the list. ;D

Okay, so afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!". Then when you play it again, you enjoy it. Then afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!" Then when you play it again you enjoy it. Then afterwards etc etc etc.

I guess where I'm getting at is my favorite composers make me want to hear a piece again and again, etc. I seldom listen to Tubin and part of my curiosity lies with simply trying to figure where he's going with his music and what the point could possibly be. I don't have a problem with his music --- it's just that I could never come to love it and rank him with my favorites for the afore mentioned reason.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Florestan on January 08, 2016, 02:01:51 PM
Your name is now on the list. ;D

I´m honored!  :D

Quote
I guess where I'm getting at is my favorite composers make me want to hear a piece again and again, etc. I seldom listen to Tubin and part of my curiosity lies with simply trying to figure where he's going with his music and what the point could possibly be. I don't have a problem with his music --- it's just that I could never come to love it and rank him with my favorites.

I know what you mean. I was just teasing you.  :D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2016, 02:55:56 PM
Okay, so afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!". Then when you play it again, you enjoy it. Then afterwards you say "Wait a minute, this is not that good, actually!" Then when you play it again you enjoy it. Then afterwards etc etc etc.

 :D
Sort of like a James Franco movie?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on January 08, 2016, 03:30:14 PM
Listening to the first half of the Tubin symphony cycle today. Here are my notes.

No. 1. This one sounds attractive, and has some really striking moments. But it's so disorganized and episodic - stuff happens and it's never clear why. Especially without catchy melodies to help you gain a point of reference, the first two movements fall under the category of "nice enough, but uncompelling" for me. The finale is a bit different, since, for its second half, Tubin finds an idea and sticks to it, developing it more carefully. But this is not going to be my favorite late romantic symphony.

No. 2 "Legendaire." Here Tubin harnesses his apparent penchant for disorganization, and uses it to his advantage. It's a huge advance over the First, while not being any more formally structured. That's because Tubin really takes time to let the episodes develop, and the transitions are much better, too. (As some GMGers have commented, the symphonies do have a lot in common, sound-world-wise.) The "Legendaire" subtitle should be read more as "Mythologique," given the tone of the music. A lot of it sounds truly mythic, like a Lord of the Rings epic or something along those lines. Terrific orchestration, big mighty climaxes. This is not an essential symphony, or anything like that, but it's certainly a lot of fun.

No. 3. It's audacious to start a symphony with a fugue (well, ok, there's a 3-minute introduction). After the fugue ends, the bassoons quote "Dies irae". And the symphony is, of course, in D minor. But that triple threat of old-fashioned-ness is mostly defused, because the fugal material never comes back; neither does Dies irae. Instead the movement shifts to a slow passage and then a surprisingly happy ending. As weird as that portion is, I do like the rest of the symphony. This work is perfectly fine, with its very cool scherzo and a cohesive marchy finale that leaves an unusually strong impression and builds to a big, brassy, weirdly Debussian ending. There are strong Atterbergian echoes. Orchestration again superb - brings to mind what would happen if you put all the French Impressionists in a boat and sailed them to the Baltic.

No. 4 "Lirica." Dave Hurwitz compares this to Vaughan Williams's Symphony No. 5, which (remarkably) was written in the exact same year, 1943. Sibelius's Sixth might also be a decent comparison, in a few respects. The title "Lirica" is well-lived-up-to, with lyricism and long, flowing melody a priority. This is also the first conventionally-structured Tubin symphony, insofar as it has themes and develops them in traditional classical forms. Also, this is the first four-movement symphony with a separate scherzo and andante. (Amazingly, Tubin only wrote 2 four-movement symphonies in 10.5 tries.)

This symphony is not as inspired as RVW's in terms of melody, and its emotional arc may not resonate as strongly (the way RVW's slow movement ties in to the finale...). Also, the final coda is a bit of a letdown to me. But Tubin No. 4 is definitely the highlight of the cycle so far. There is some seriously good stuff here. Volmer's performance is good enough, but I think that a truly world-class conductor/orchestra combo would take this symphony to another level.

No. 5. Wow, a major change in the composer's style. Now Tubin has taken off the jacket of late-romantic harmony and donned the vest of neoclassical rhythmic emphasis. Boy was that a terrible sentence. But he's not so much about jumping around in atmospheric puddles anymore, and has moved on to sterner, more incisive things. I don't get the Prokofiev comparisons; Prokofiev had a more distinctive melodic voice and the Prokian enigmatic voice concealed different emotions from the Tubinian enigmatic voice. There is a faint echo of Sibelius to the slow movement, and Roussel. Is there an organ in there? This is an interesting symphony, and as martial and even bitter as it gets, I like it. Cool timpani part! No. 5 is the other side of No. 4's coin, and while it would be a tough sell in the concert hall, it's an interesting listen.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5
Okay: 3
Meh: 1

You did all that in one go?

I listened to no.1... last weekend I think it was. And it was suggested I comment on my experiences, but they'll be old hat. By the time I get through the cycle (using Jarvi), you'll have collected the complete works!

PS Classics Today review of Vollmer specifically didn't like No.1, saying he didn't hold it together as well as Jarvi did. Something to bear in mind.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 08, 2016, 03:55:14 PM
You did all that in one go?

I listened to no.1... last weekend I think it was. And it was suggested I comment on my experiences, but they'll be old hat. By the time I get through the cycle (using Jarvi), you'll have collected the complete works!

PS Classics Today review of Vollmer specifically didn't like No.1, saying he didn't hold it together as well as Jarvi did. Something to bear in mind.

My employer's NML account (I work at a university) and my quiet desk job afford me the chance to listen to 4-6 hours of music each day, even with nice breaks between. Oh, so that is a serious caveat, that my attention was divided by doing writing, proofreading, clearing up emails, etc.

Your comments are always welcome - you're one of the most insightful commenters on music on GMG (or at least, your comments are the kinds of things I like to read)! And I suspect you will love No. 2...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Daverz on January 08, 2016, 03:56:14 PM
PS Classics Today review of Vollmer specifically didn't like No.1, saying he didn't hold it together as well as Jarvi did. Something to bear in mind.

Was it the Hurwitzer?  I think many of our members find it more useful to invert any judgement he publishes.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on January 08, 2016, 04:07:06 PM
Was it the Hurwitzer?  I think many of our members find it more useful to invert any judgement he publishes.

It was, though I think one should be careful of inverting everything. I find it helpful to first ask which period of music history we're dealing with. It's not like he hides his views about small orchestra, for example.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 10, 2016, 03:05:59 PM
I prefer the earlier (1-5) to the later (6-9) symphonies. I also enjoy No.10. I think that the 'Lyrica' (No.4) is one of the best although I think it is closer to Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony' than to his 5th Symphony. Tubin's No.1 is often seen as a kind of outlier but I enjoy it very much. It reminds me of his compatriot Kaljo Raid's First Symphony which I greatly admire.ni do find Tubin's music memorable. No.2 'Legendary' is perhaps the most exciting of all with some epic climaxes. As for the greatest, I would choose 2,3,4 or 5.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Daverz on January 10, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
It was, though I think one should be careful of inverting everything. I find it helpful to first ask which period of music history we're dealing with. It's not like he hides his views about small orchestra, for example.

I take him on a case by case basis.  If he fixates on the balance of the tam-tam or on coming up with some clever but sophomoric insult, then I tend to ignore him.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 10, 2016, 03:32:39 PM
Thanks for your thumbnails, Brian.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 11, 2016, 02:29:16 PM
No. 6. I may be shaping up as a Tubin Eccentric, because it seems like my reactions are diverging from a lot of people's. No. 5, for instance, seems not to be some people's favorite, but it had a lot to offer for me, and so it goes with No. 6. This 1954 piece seems to finally reflect the influence of real-world events and composers like Shostakovich. Shattering, wild climaxes with lots of stuff going on. Like the previous 5, there's not much in terms of memorable thematic material, and the structure seems to follow the "I'll do whatever I want" principle, but like the best of the previous 5 (2, 4, 5), this is compensated for with memorable episodes, vibrant orchestral colors, and at least some emotional impact.

No. 7. Oh, this has the best opening of any of the symphonies so far. Mysterious, wary, flickering back and forth (like Brahms) from major and minor keys as if it was the easiest thing. This time there are echoes of Prokofiev, particularly in the new "bittersweet" (an overused word but true) atmosphere and the rare, for Tubin, presence of a true slow movement. (Although, he Franckifies it by dropping a scherzo in the middle and then uniting them in counterpoint!) Like Prokofiev's Seventh, this feels less ambitious than its predecessors; it's certainly less loud, and requires a smaller orchestra. An alarming, dissonant march finale completes the impression of a hostile Soviet takeover (Tubin was living in exile when he wrote this one). Certainly not for everybody, but the first movement is my favorite movement of Tubin so far.

No. 8. I'm starting to realize that the things I liked about Tubin 2-4 are gone for good, but he is now correcting several of the things I didn't like about those early symphonies. In paring down his style and pursuing a more unified "autumnal" voice, Tubin requires less complexity in terms of orchestral sound but creates more complexity from the stronger force of his ideas. But on the other hand, these symphonies tip quite heavily into the Nonstop Vague Foreboding/Unease category. And his unwillingness to write a slow movement can get kinda tiring. The climax of the third movement is extremely well-scored, though. None of these symphonies are bad.

Ultimately, 4-6 may be the composer's peak because that's where his early mythic/impressionistic side finally met with his newfound formal rigor.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5, 6, 7
Okay: 3
Meh: 1, 8
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2016, 01:31:15 AM
No. 6. I may be shaping up as a Tubin Eccentric, because it seems like my reactions are diverging from a lot of people's. No. 5, for instance, seems not to be some people's favorite, but it had a lot to offer for me, and so it goes with No. 6. This 1954 piece seems to finally reflect the influence of real-world events and composers like Shostakovich. Shattering, wild climaxes with lots of stuff going on. Like the previous 5, there's not much in terms of memorable thematic material, and the structure seems to follow the "I'll do whatever I want" principle, but like the best of the previous 5 (2, 4, 5), this is compensated for with memorable episodes, vibrant orchestral colors, and at least some emotional impact.

No. 7. Oh, this has the best opening of any of the symphonies so far. Mysterious, wary, flickering back and forth (like Brahms) from major and minor keys as if it was the easiest thing. This time there are echoes of Prokofiev, particularly in the new "bittersweet" (an overused word but true) atmosphere and the rare, for Tubin, presence of a true slow movement. (Although, he Franckifies it by dropping a scherzo in the middle and then uniting them in counterpoint!) Like Prokofiev's Seventh, this feels less ambitious than its predecessors; it's certainly less loud, and requires a smaller orchestra. An alarming, dissonant march finale completes the impression of a hostile Soviet takeover (Tubin was living in exile when he wrote this one). Certainly not for everybody, but the first movement is my favorite movement of Tubin so far.

No. 8. I'm starting to realize that the things I liked about Tubin 2-4 are gone for good, but he is now correcting several of the things I didn't like about those early symphonies. In paring down his style and pursuing a more unified "autumnal" voice, Tubin requires less complexity in terms of orchestral sound but creates more complexity from the stronger force of his ideas. But on the other hand, these symphonies tip quite heavily into the Nonstop Vague Foreboding/Unease category. And his unwillingness to write a slow movement can get kinda tiring. The climax of the third movement is extremely well-scored, though. None of these symphonies are bad.

Ultimately, 4-6 may be the composer's peak because that's where his early mythic/impressionistic side finally met with his newfound formal rigor.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5, 6, 7
Okay: 3
Meh: 1, 8
I look forward to hearing your views on 9 and 10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2016, 07:50:11 AM
I look forward to hearing your views on 9 and 10.

+ 1 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on January 12, 2016, 08:02:45 AM
Count me as a big fan of #5, but I do understand how it might be problematic for some.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 12, 2016, 01:18:34 PM
No. 9. Like with Carl Nielsen, the subtitle "Sinfonia semplice" does not mean this is a simple or easy listen! The first movement is a traditional sonata form, so there is that. And Tubin continues his late habit of paring down the scoring, avoiding the batteries of percussion from, e.g., No. 6. His sound-world is getting noticeably more "Nordic," that is, it is gaining the traits one usually associates with Sibelius and the like. (A more "frigid" feel, plaintive winds, reduction in orchestral color for color's sake.)

Having said that, this just isn't my cup of tea. At the quiet ending of No. 9, I was left wondering why the symphony existed, what purpose it served. Another thought: Tubin seems to have completely lost the strong sense of rhythm he had in Nos. 5 and 6. This absence was true of parts of No. 8, as well.

No. 10. This is the only Tubin symphony I'd previously heard, but so long ago that the memory has faded away. There is an interesting, simple horn fanfare which serves to animate some material, but ... mostly this symphony went in one ear, and out the other. Not too many notes on this one, unfortunately. I'm ready for my Tubin journey to be over. There was some good stuff, but none that rose to the level of greatness, and the later years were unkind to this composer both in personal life and musically.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5, 6, 7
Okay: 3
Meh: 1, 8, 10
No, thanks: 9
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2016, 02:43:44 PM
No. 9. Like with Carl Nielsen, the subtitle "Sinfonia semplice" does not mean this is a simple or easy listen! The first movement is a traditional sonata form, so there is that. And Tubin continues his late habit of paring down the scoring, avoiding the batteries of percussion from, e.g., No. 6. His sound-world is getting noticeably more "Nordic," that is, it is gaining the traits one usually associates with Sibelius and the like. (A more "frigid" feel, plaintive winds, reduction in orchestral color for color's sake.)

Having said that, this just isn't my cup of tea. At the quiet ending of No. 9, I was left wondering why the symphony existed, what purpose it served. Another thought: Tubin seems to have completely lost the strong sense of rhythm he had in Nos. 5 and 6. This absence was true of parts of No. 8, as well.

No. 10. This is the only Tubin symphony I'd previously heard, but so long ago that the memory has faded away. There is an interesting, simple horn fanfare which serves to animate some material, but ... mostly this symphony went in one ear, and out the other. Not too many notes on this one, unfortunately. I'm ready for my Tubin journey to be over. There was some good stuff, but none that rose to the level of greatness, and the later years were unkind to this composer both in personal life and musically.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5, 6, 7
Okay: 3
Meh: 1, 8, 10
No, thanks: 9
Thanks for your interesting views. And how about the fragment of Symphony 11?  8)
I largely agree with you but have a higher opinion of Nos 1, 3 and 10. I have enjoyed reading your verdicts on the Tubin symphonies.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Scion7 on January 12, 2016, 02:53:24 PM
While I bought a few of his CD's this is a composer I will investigate later in life in more detail.  Too much other exciting music being spun on the ol' Vic right now.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2016, 06:50:13 PM
Thanks for your interesting views. And how about the fragment of Symphony 11?  8)
I largely agree with you but have a higher opinion of Nos 1, 3 and 10. I have enjoyed reading your verdicts on the Tubin symphonies.
FWIW, I am curious especially to hear the Ninth from Brian's back-of-the-envelope reportage.

I know Tubin's name from my two school-years in Tallinn, of course; but I am not certain that I heard any of his music then.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2016, 07:30:42 PM
FWIW, I am curious especially to hear the Ninth from Brian's back-of-the-envelope reportage.

I know Tubin's name from my two school-years in Tallinn, of course; but I am not certain that I heard any of his music then.
Well, it's Fate: the BIS singleton with the Ninth also has the Fourth, which is our Brian's pick of the lot. Also an even earlier Toccata, dating from the epoch of independent Baltic States, but at the time when things were hotting up in Germany.

Even on practically pure spec, I am pleased at having pulled this trigger.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: amw on January 13, 2016, 01:02:37 AM
The only Tubin symphony offhand I remember is No. 5—I have the lot, but the Alba set, not the BIS one. 5 is not an especially attractive work, even a bit demoralising at times, but it's compelling. I'm also curious about No. 9 now, though >.>

Tubin likes using really short little motives instead of actual themes as building blocks, and for me part of the problem is that a lot of those little motives sound pretty similar to one another and are not very striking intervallically. I think the best thing he's done is a big Piano Sonata from the sixties/seventies or thereabouts, which can be heard on a BIS recording, probably
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 02:42:14 PM
The only Tubin symphony offhand I remember is No. 5—I have the lot, but the Alba set, not the BIS one. 5 is not an especially attractive work, even a bit demoralising at times, but it's compelling.

I've listened to the outer movements of the Fifth on YouTube now (Toomas Vavilov and the Eesti Muusika- ja Teatriakadeemia sümfooniaorkester, so a youth orchestra, and they play their hearts out).  I should probably withhold judgement until I listen to the intervening Andante . . . I agree that it is compelling, but I also find it quite readily attractive . . . and if there be anything demoralizing about it, I'm missing that.

Well, it's Fate: the BIS singleton with the Ninth also has the Fourth, which is our Brian's pick of the lot. Also an even earlier Toccata, dating from the epoch of independent Baltic States, but at the time when things were hotting up in Germany.

Even on practically pure spec, I am pleased at having pulled this trigger.

This has landed, and I have listened to both the Ninth and the Toccata twice, and I like them both very much.  The latter is of course a minor work, but exhibits perhaps the peer of (say) 75% of the playful spikiness of the young Prokofiev. (By which, I don't mean that he is "like Prokofiev, but less.")  The Ninth is a bit episodic, and maybe that aspect is what has disoriented Brian;  but I like all the bits, and I like the way they all hang together.

I've also heard the unfinished Eleventh on YouTube (just the first movement, and orchestrated by another composer).  Energetic, sure-footed, expertly designed.

I really didn't come into this, wanting to buy a set of the symphonies.  But I find myself entertaining the question.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2016, 02:47:32 PM
I've listened to the outer movements of the Fifth on YouTube now (Toomas Vavilov and the Eesti Muusika- ja Teatriakadeemia sümfooniaorkester, so a youth orchestra, and they play their hearts out).  I should probably withhold judgement until I listen to the intervening Andante . . . I agree that it is compelling, but I also find it quite readily attractive . . . and if there be anything demoralizing about it, I'm missing that.

This has landed, and I have listened to both the Ninth and the Toccata twice, and I like them both very much.  The latter is of course a minor work, but exhibits perhaps the peer of (say) 75% of the playful spikiness of the young Prokofiev. (By which, I don't mean that he is "like Prokofiev, but less.")  The Ninth is a bit episodic, and maybe that aspect is what has disoriented Brian;  but I like all the bits, and I like the way they all hang together.

I've also heard the unfinished Eleventh on YouTube (just the first movement, and orchestrated by another composer).  Energetic, sure-footed, expertly designed.

I really didn't come into this, wanting to buy a set of the symphonies.  But I find myself entertaining the question.
Go for the Jarvi set Karl.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 03:00:36 PM
Cheers, Jeffrey.

You know, offhand I wonder if the set would drop some of the non-symphony works, such as the Toccata, which I especially enjoy.  So I may just cherry-pick inexpensive used singletons.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: North Star on January 17, 2016, 03:25:53 PM
Cheers, Jeffrey.

You know, offhand I wonder if the set would drop some of the non-symphony works, such as the Toccata, which I especially enjoy.  So I may just cherry-pick inexpensive used singletons.
Toccata and Suite from the ballet Kratt (The Goblin) are the only ones of those left in the box.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/feb03/Tubin_symphonies.htm
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 03:38:50 PM
Toccata and Suite from the ballet Kratt (The Goblin) are the only ones of those left in the box.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/feb03/Tubin_symphonies.htm
Thanks, good sieur!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 17, 2016, 03:56:38 PM
Cheers, Jeffrey.

You know, offhand I wonder if the set would drop some of the non-symphony works, such as the Toccata, which I especially enjoy.  So I may just cherry-pick inexpensive used singletons.

In all honesty, and I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but it's best to buy the Tubin Jarvi series individually due to the all the miscellaneous works you get with each recording. Like, for example, Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs and the Piano Concertino are coupled with Symphony No. 7. The ballet suite from Kratt is coupled with Symphony No. 5 and so forth. Definitely worth your consideration.
Title: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 04:05:04 PM
Thanks, John; has Järvi recorded the Eleventh?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 17, 2016, 04:59:13 PM
Thanks, John; has Järvi recorded the Eleventh?

You're welcome, Karl. Jarvi has not, but Volmer has on Alba.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on January 17, 2016, 05:33:26 PM
Incidentally, Jarvi requested the concert-hall "completion" of that Symphony No. 11 fragment, but I believe it was Volmer who ended up giving the premiere.
Title: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 06:07:25 PM
Thanks, gents.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on January 17, 2016, 10:34:05 PM
Incidentally, Jarvi requested the concert-hall "completion" of that Symphony No. 11 fragment, but I believe it was Volmer who ended up giving the premiere.

I heard it live in Amsterdam under Järvi with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra somewhere around 1990, and the CD premiere was indeed under Volmer, with the Estonian 'State' SO (as it was called then) on Koch 37291-2H1. Coupled with Kaljo Raid's Second 'Stockholm' Symphony and Tubin's Elegy for Strings (also arranged by Kaljo Raid, who had completed the orchestration of Tubin's Eleventh at Järvi's request).   
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2016, 01:13:36 AM
Cheers, Jeffrey.

You know, offhand I wonder if the set would drop some of the non-symphony works, such as the Toccata, which I especially enjoy.  So I may just cherry-pick inexpensive used singletons.
Good idea. Makes sense Karl.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Jo498 on January 18, 2016, 02:38:37 AM
I have the BIS disc with the 7th symphony and the piano concertino (probably because someone at another forum raved about it or the composer). I vaguely remember that I liked one of the pieces more than the others but overall not enough to entice me to get more music by Tubin.
How "representative"/typical are those pieces?

Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2016, 09:04:57 AM
I have the BIS disc with the 7th symphony and the piano concertino (probably because someone at another forum raved about it or the composer). I vaguely remember that I liked one of the pieces more than the others but overall not enough to entice me to get more music by Tubin.
How "representative"/typical are those pieces?


Not that representative of his best work in my opinion. I would try one of symphonies 2-6 before you give up on Tubin. 2 or 4 in particular.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 22, 2016, 10:00:29 AM
No. 9. Like with Carl Nielsen, the subtitle "Sinfonia semplice" does not mean this is a simple or easy listen! The first movement is a traditional sonata form, so there is that. And Tubin continues his late habit of paring down the scoring, avoiding the batteries of percussion from, e.g., No. 6. His sound-world is getting noticeably more "Nordic," that is, it is gaining the traits one usually associates with Sibelius and the like. (A more "frigid" feel, plaintive winds, reduction in orchestral color for color's sake.)

Having said that, this just isn't my cup of tea. At the quiet ending of No. 9, I was left wondering why the symphony existed, what purpose it served. Another thought: Tubin seems to have completely lost the strong sense of rhythm he had in Nos. 5 and 6. This absence was true of parts of No. 8, as well.

No. 10. This is the only Tubin symphony I'd previously heard, but so long ago that the memory has faded away. There is an interesting, simple horn fanfare which serves to animate some material, but ... mostly this symphony went in one ear, and out the other. Not too many notes on this one, unfortunately. I'm ready for my Tubin journey to be over. There was some good stuff, but none that rose to the level of greatness, and the later years were unkind to this composer both in personal life and musically.

Enjoyed a lot: 4
Enjoyed plenty: 2, 5, 6, 7
Okay: 3
Meh: 1, 8, 10
No, thanks: 9

Maybe the project (listening to the lot as a block) did a disservice to the Tenth, and even to the Ninth.  (Although you had heard the Tenth before . . . .) I am dipping my toes here and there, and pretty much liking everything;  and I am starting from the latter half of the cycle, where I expected to find music better in tune with my likes.  But at a guess, if I had undertaken a survey such as yours, I might well be ready for my Tubin journey to be over, too!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Turner on January 22, 2016, 10:20:16 AM
Concerning a possible giving up on Tubin´s symphonies, IMO there´s a big difference between the Volmer and the Järvi cycles; Järvi adds much more excitement, I think.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 22, 2016, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: Brian
Tubin seems to have completely lost the strong sense of rhythm he had in Nos. 5 and 6. This absence was true of parts of No. 8, as well.

Let me indulge in a bit of speculation, and add that, since the earliest Tubin symphony I have heard is the Fifth, I am listening to the later symphonies "against a peer group" not of the composer's own earlier symphonies, but of, e.g., the Schuman symphonies.

I hear a balance of nervy purpose, and homespun lyricism.  I am perhaps not as viscerally excited to make these symphonies' acquaintance, as I was with the Schuman, but I find them well-written and genial.

Where my speculation enters the picture is: maybe there was a point when the composer perhaps bridled at being considered (to whatever degree) a folklorist.  It is exactly the sort of "talk to the people, son" musical manner which would have been compelled if he had remained in Soviet Estonia, and maybe that was part of what he fell into in his land of exile, "our Estonian cousin."  In any event, most artists over time, if they feel they have "worked a neighborhood" enough, find themselves motivated to try their hand at something a little new.

Concerning a possible giving up on Tubin´s symphonies, IMO there´s a big difference between the Volmer and the Järvi cycles; Järvi adds much more excitement, I think.

Interesting take.  I've listened to the Eighth through Tenth led by Järvi;  the Fifth as conducted by Vavilov on YouTube I like very much, and it sounds rather better than the samples from that symphony I've heard from both the Järvi & Volmer cycles.  I didn't see a conductor listed in the Eleventh as I found it on YouTube, but my best guess at press time is that it is from the Volmer . . . and Sarge & I both like it a good deal.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Turner on January 22, 2016, 11:14:17 PM
Volmer´s 11th has a timing of 8:49 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EVLWMYQ?ie=UTF8&qid=&ref_=tmm_msc_swatch_0&sr=); this you-tube is Paavo Järvi´s (9:27; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyStBMDwo7c).

No Neeme Järvi of that one, to my knowledge.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 23, 2016, 06:35:47 AM
Volmer´s 11th has a timing of 8:49 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EVLWMYQ?ie=UTF8&qid=&ref_=tmm_msc_swatch_0&sr=); this you-tube is Paavo Järvi´s (9:27; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyStBMDwo7c).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 25, 2016, 12:24:25 PM
I've listened to the Eighth through Tenth led by Järvi;  the Fifth as conducted by Vavilov [ and the Eleventh conducted by Paavo Järvi ]

Update:  I've now listened to (Neeme) Järvi’s Seventh. Clearly, I am trending towards the Sixth now . . . .
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2016, 10:31:40 PM
Update:  I've now listened to (Neeme) Järvi’s Seventh. Clearly, I am trending towards the Sixth now . . . .

The Sixth is his Sacre; his old friend Harri Kiisk told me that Tubin himself felt the same way about it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 26, 2016, 06:06:03 AM
The Sixth is his Sacre; his old friend Harri Kiisk told me that Tubin himself felt the same way about it.

Enjoyed my inaugural listen (via YouTube) to the Sixth very much;  and as a result, pulled the trigger on a used-like-new copy of the disc with the Second and Sixth.

So, to recapitulate . . . as against (for comparison) getting a new box set of the BIS symphonies for $54, I've fetched in Symphonies Nos. 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 for a total outlay of $27.61.  I still haven't listened to any of the symphonies earlier than the Fifth, so they may or may not sing to me.  But I certainly like (5), 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 (& 11).  The bite-sized Toccata is very well done, too.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 26, 2016, 07:39:43 AM
Enjoyed my inaugural listen (via YouTube) to the Sixth very much;  and as a result, pulled the trigger on a used-like-new copy of the disc with the Second and Sixth.

So, to recapitulate . . . as against (for comparison) getting a new box set of the BIS symphonies for $54, I've fetched in Symphonies Nos. 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 for a total outlay of $27.61.  I still haven't listened to any of the symphonies earlier than the Fifth, so they may or may not sing to me.  But I certainly like (5), 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 (& 11).  The bite-sized Toccata is very well done, too.
No 2 is one of the best Karl.
That was my first ever CD.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 26, 2016, 12:20:27 PM
I've listened repeatedly to the symphonies recently and enjoy all of them, except No.1. I'd rank them:

5 3 2 7 (10 9 8 6) 4 1

Those is parenthesis occupy a collective fifth place; impossible to choose which I prefer; they are all attractive.

The Fourth, everyone's favorite (or so it seems), didn't appeal at all until I heard Volmer's recording. I finally hear the inner detail (woodwind, brass) that is missing in Järvi's string heavy recording.

Sarge
Title: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 26, 2016, 12:53:02 PM
By seeming chance, the first I heard is your favorite, the Fifth; and I like it very well.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 26, 2016, 01:05:58 PM
Am I alone in liking No.1?

My favourites in order: 2,3,4,(1 + 5)10,6,7,8,9.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 26, 2016, 01:57:47 PM
Am I alone in liking No.1?

I think John (MI) likes it too.

Sarge
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 26, 2016, 07:35:10 PM
I think John (MI) likes it too.

Sarge

I like the first movement, but that's about it. The rest of the symphony just kind of falls apart for me with the two proceeding movements.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 27, 2016, 08:10:53 AM
I like the first movement, but that's about it. The rest of the symphony just kind of falls apart for me with the two proceeding movements.

I was thinking this when I made my comment:

I think Tubin's 1st and 7th stand out the most to me. That first movement of the 1st is a miniature masterpiece.

Not that your new post contradicts it; merely clarifies it.

Sarge
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: J on January 27, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
The first movement of the 1rst stands out for being really good, - and the second and third movements stand out for being really bad. 

Got it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
I was thinking this when I made my comment:

Not that your new post contradicts it; merely clarifies it.

Sarge

Thanks for the clarification, Sarge. ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 04, 2017, 07:48:41 AM
First post in almost a year! :o I shouldn't be surprised really. Anyway, I've been going through Tubin's symphonies again and finding a lot of enjoyment in them. I've been contemplating getting Volmer's series on Alba, but I continue to read conflicting reports that he's not as inspired as Jarvi regardless of how much detail Volmer brings to the music. It would be nice to hear another interpretation of these works however. Anyone have some good experiences with Volmer's cycle on Alba?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 04, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
Anyone have some good experiences with Volmer's cycle on Alba?

I have Vomer's 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11. The only one I've directly compared to Järvi is the Fourth, and it blows Järvi away: much better recording with lots of detail, a better orchestra.

Sarge
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 04, 2017, 08:45:23 AM
First post in almost a year! :o I shouldn't be surprised really. Anyway, I've been going through Tubin's symphonies again and finding a lot of enjoyment in them. I've been contemplating getting Volmer's series on Alba, but I continue to read conflicting reports that he's not as inspired as Jarvi regardless of how much detail Volmer brings to the music. It would be nice to hear another interpretation of these works however. Anyone have some good experiences with Volmer's cycle on Alba?
I have both complete cycles ( ::)). I wouldn't want to be without the Jarvi set but the more recent Volmer cycle complements it. If I had to choose I would stick with the Jarvi and I prefer his interpretation of Symphony 4, especially the beautiful opening - recorded I think at a live concert possibly in Tubin's presence. Symphonies 1-5 and 10 are my favourites
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 04, 2017, 09:03:40 AM
I have both complete cycles ( ::)). I wouldn't want to be without the Jarvi set but the more recent Volmer cycle complements it. If I had to choose I would stick with the Jarvi and I prefer his interpretation of Symphony 4, especially the beautiful opening - recorded I think at a live concert possibly in Tubin's presence. Symphonies 1-5 and 10 are my favourites

I have Vomer's 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11. The only one I've directly compared to Järvi is the Fourth, and it blows Järvi away: much better recording with lots of detail, a better orchestra.

Sarge

Thanks guys. I just ordered Volmer's complete Tubin cycle and I'm going to do my best to try and enjoy these performances on their own merits and not give in to those people who say that Volmer lacks this or that whereas Jarvi reigns supreme. It is highly possible that many people are still attached to Jarvi's Tubin for the fact that it was their first exposure to the composer. Don't get me wrong, Jarvi is amazing in this music, but sometimes I feel he pushes the music a bit too hard in some sections where a bit more lyricism would be preferred.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on January 04, 2017, 12:43:32 PM
The only one I've directly compared to Järvi is the Fourth, and it blows Järvi away: much better recording with lots of detail, a better orchestra.

I seem to remember that's the one where Classics Today considered Järvi to be weak.

I'm sticking with him as I try all the symphonies out via streaming, but I know both sets are available on the streaming service I use (Deezer).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 04, 2017, 08:26:01 PM
I seem to remember that's the one where Classics Today considered Järvi to be weak.

I'm sticking with him as I try all the symphonies out via streaming, but I know both sets are available on the streaming service I use (Deezer).

Whenever you can form some kind of opinion, I'd love to know what you think of the Volmer Tubin series. I'll go ahead and say his recording of the ballet Kratt is top-notch. There's also an excellent performance of Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs that's coupled with Kratt.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 04, 2017, 10:34:30 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this particular blog before, but it's quite well-written and helps shed some light on Tubin's symphonies:

https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/eduard-tubin-symphonist/ (https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/eduard-tubin-symphonist/)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on January 05, 2017, 12:50:17 AM
Whenever you can form some kind of opinion, I'd love to know what you think of the Volmer Tubin series. I'll go ahead and say his recording of the ballet Kratt is top-notch. There's also an excellent performance of Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs that's coupled with Kratt.

Right. See you in 10 years.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on January 05, 2017, 12:58:10 AM
Thanks guys. I just ordered Volmer's complete Tubin cycle and I'm going to do my best to try and enjoy these performances on their own merits and not give in to those people who say that Volmer lacks this or that whereas Jarvi reigns supreme. It is highly possible that many people are still attached to Jarvi's Tubin for the fact that it was their first exposure to the composer. Don't get me wrong, Jarvi is amazing in this music, but sometimes I feel he pushes the music a bit too hard in some sections where a bit more lyricism would be preferred.
The Volmer set is fine - I especially liked his version of the epic Symphony 2 'Legendary'.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2017, 07:12:59 AM
Right. See you in 10 years.

Oh man, I hope it's not that long of a wait. :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2017, 07:13:29 AM
The Volmer set is fine - I especially liked his version of the epic Symphony 2 'Legendary'.

Very nice, Jeffrey. Do you own his recording the complete Kratt as well?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on January 05, 2017, 01:13:49 PM
Oh man, I hope it's not that long of a wait. :)

Well, maybe not. I was thinking of the chances of me actually listening to two complete Tubin cycles, and trying to be optimistic so as not to scare you.

You may just have to wait until the "am I putting Tubin symphonies on the shopping list" question gets answered "yes" and THEN gets transformed into "which Tubin symphonies set am I buying?", and then I get around to trying a comparison on iTunes of samples of each.

So maybe only a couple of years.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2017, 07:41:23 PM
Well, maybe not. I was thinking of the chances of me actually listening to two complete Tubin cycles, and trying to be optimistic so as not to scare you.

You may just have to wait until the "am I putting Tubin symphonies on the shopping list" question gets answered "yes" and THEN gets transformed into "which Tubin symphonies set am I buying?", and then I get around to trying a comparison on iTunes of samples of each.

So maybe only a couple of years.

Well, if I'm alive then, I look forward to your response. ;) Jarvi seems to be the go-to set for Tubin's symphonies, but I hear a lot of good things about Volmer's cycle. Personally, I can't wait to dig into the Volmer since I don't know it at all with the exception of his recording of Kratt, which was fantastic.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 08, 2017, 03:34:35 AM
As posted a few minutes ago on the "What are you listening to now" thread. It strikes me that the Sixth symphony might appeal to lovers of Khatchaturian. I'm referring to the exciting,noisy bits,which some killjoys might describe as bombast. I love it,and the Second,which is possibly my favourite of the lot (so far)!

"This has always been my favourite. It was the first Tubin symphony I ever heard,on the uk's bbc radio 3,back in 1985,I believe. I made an off air caasette recording,which I have kept,for sentimental reasons,as it's my oldest (existing) off air recording. It still plays! :) As to the music itself. I think it is a very gripping,powerful symphony. "Soft luminesent chords" as one Musicweb critic describes them,begin the symphony. The second movement,a slow,powerful march,building remorselessly and inexorably.  There are pounding drums and a piano part I'm not a musician,and all I can say is that it is a bit like Sibelius with an east european flavour. Viscerally exciting in places. Moments of shimmering beauty. There is a feeling of inexorable momentum throughout and in the moments of reflection,the immensity of cold,bleak landscapes and white nights. It all feels very tightly argued from start to finish and ends as softly and mysteriously as it began. Some of it is very exciting!
I like the Sixth,too. Another favourite. This was the second Tubin symphony I heard. Again via Radio 3 and an off air cassette tape,which I believe I still have. This erupts in violence at one point. A sort of mix of Sibelius and Prokofiev,with even some Khatchaturian in the noisy stretches. The sort of thing lovers of Khatchaturian like! But again,.this feeling of mystery and remote landscapes,a bleak violent past. Tubin assimilates all his influences very effectively. He is his own man. The percussive moments are viscerally,very exciting. The whole work has an epic feeling to it. Pump up the volume and the bass (for those exciting drums) and enjoy! Both symphonies benefit from the spectacular sound quality".

(http://i.imgur.com/hUsnUKa.jpg)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on May 08, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
which some killjoys might describe as bombast.
It is, in a way, for very similar reasons as found in e.g. Shostakovich Tenth: Stalin, the war.

The Sixt is Tubin's most expressive  ''war symphony'', contemplating the horrors that befell his homeland - and his own exile in 1944 because of them. I remember how Harri Kiisk, who knew Tubin well in Stockholm, 'explained' the Sixth to me in such terms, based on his own discussion with Tubin.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 08, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
As posted a few minutes ago on the "What are you listening to now" thread. It strikes me that the Sixth symphony might appeal to lovers of Khatchaturian. I'm referring to the exciting,noisy bits,which some killjoys might describe as bombast. I love it,and the Second,which is possibly my favourite of the lot (so far)!

"This has always been my favourite. It was the first Tubin symphony I ever heard,on the uk's bbc radio 3,back in 1985,I believe. I made an off air caasette recording,which I have kept,for sentimental reasons,as it's my oldest (existing) off air recording. It still plays! :) As to the music itself. I think it is a very gripping,powerful symphony. "Soft luminesent chords" as one Musicweb critic describes them,begin the symphony. The second movement,a slow,powerful march,building remorselessly and inexorably.  There are pounding drums and a piano part I'm not a musician,and all I can say is that it is a bit like Sibelius with an east european flavour. Viscerally exciting in places. Moments of shimmering beauty. There is a feeling of inexorable momentum throughout and in the moments of reflection,the immensity of cold,bleak landscapes and white nights. It all feels very tightly argued from start to finish and ends as softly and mysteriously as it began. Some of it is very exciting!
I like the Sixth,too. Another favourite. This was the second Tubin symphony I heard. Again via Radio 3 and an off air cassette tape,which I believe I still have. This erupts in violence at one point. A sort of mix of Sibelius and Prokofiev,with even some Khatchaturian in the noisy stretches. The sort of thing lovers of Khatchaturian like! But again,.this feeling of mystery and remote landscapes,a bleak violent past. Tubin assimilates all his influences very effectively. He is his own man. The percussive moments are viscerally,very exciting. The whole work has an epic feeling to it. Pump up the volume and the bass (for those exciting drums) and enjoy! Both symphonies benefit from the spectacular sound quality".

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/_12_zpsgyosybbj.png)

Tubin, another imposing composer. I have to say that his symphonies are consistently appealing (even his unfinished 11st). It's one of the few symphonic cycles where every symphony I like significantly. They are full of power, determination, with lots of fierce moments and strong orchestration. They are, in general, the kind of symphonies that I enjoy most. Saying one of them in particular as my favorite is hard work. The most compelling ones are from the 1 to 6, they represent Tubin in the peak of his powers.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 08, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
Christo:I should point out,I have read some reviews that have used such terminology. The same,kind of, daft sods who sneered at Shostakovich's Seventh. I don't think it's bombastic,at all. I think I was just trying to drum up enthusiasm for it. Tubin's Sixth is one of my favourites;but as you say,the inspiration behind it not fun at all!

Yes,what not to enjoy and admire. Majestic,imposing,moving. There is an epic feel to some of them;and  the orchestration is frequently,viscerally very exciting. You also feel better for listening to them.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 08, 2017, 10:15:43 PM
No 2 'Legendary' is probably my favourite too. I enjoy No.6 but not as much as some of the others, especially, 1,2,3,4,5 and 10. If you don't know it already you must listen to Kaljo Raid's First Symphony if you like Tubin.
That BIS CD with symphonies 2 and 6 on was the first ever CD that I owned - even before I had a CD player.  ::)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 09, 2017, 01:33:38 AM
That must have been annoying! ;D The thing is,you must check to make sure you've got a cd player before buying?!! ;D Always a good idea!! :( ;D ;D ;D The first cd's I ever heard were from the library. One was Haitink's recording of the Sinfonia Antartica;the other was......?!! Unfortunately,I'm not sure? I think it might have been de Falla?!! ::) A Dutoit cd,maybe? Luckily for me,I did have a cd player!! :) I think it lasted about 16 or 17 years. It was still working when I threw it away;but the on-off toggle button had gone wonky. You could play it through the DIN sockets at the back,though. I'm on my third cd player now!!

I'm playing this cd,now. I like everything on this cd. I like the Sinfonietta very much. It's full of good tunes and ideas. I also like the Piano concertino. I prefer the Seventh Symphony to the third and eighth symphonies. There are some very stirring and exciting pasages for brass in the third;but the inspiration seemed less consistent and the ideas less memorable than some other Tubin symphonies. The eighth is my least favourite,so far. They are still well worth listening too,though. The Seventh,however,is,to my ears,full of interesting,arresting ideas. All in all,one of the most enjoyable cd's in the bis cycle,imho (as they say).

(http://i.imgur.com/9KIuTFG.jpg)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 09, 2017, 05:48:14 AM
That must have been annoying! ;D The thing is,you must check to make sure you've got a cd player before buying?!! ;D Always a good idea!! :( ;D ;D ;D The first cd's I ever heard were from the library. One was Haitink's recording of the Sinfonia Antartica;the other was......?!! Unfortunately,I'm not sure? I think it might have been de Falla?!! ::) A Dutoit cd,maybe? Luckily for me,I did have a cd player!! :) I think it lasted about 16 or 17 years. It was still working when I threw it away;but the on-off toggle button had gone wonky. You could play it through the DIN sockets at the back,though. I'm on my third cd player now!!

I'm playing this cd,now. I like everything on this cd. I like the Sinfonietta very much. It's full of good tunes and ideas. I also like the Piano concertino. I prefer the Seventh Symphony to the third and eighth symphonies. There are some very stirring and exciting pasages for brass in the third;but the inspiration seemed less consistent and the ideas less memorable than some other Tubin symphonies. The eighth is my least favourite,so far. They are still well worth listening too,though. The Seventh,however,is,to my ears,full of interesting,arresting ideas. All in all,one of the most enjoyable cd's in the bis cycle,imho (as they say).

(http://i.imgur.com/9KIuTFG.jpg)

That Tubin recording is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 09, 2017, 09:32:29 AM
That must have been annoying! ;D The thing is,you must check to make sure you've got a cd player before buying?!! ;D Always a good idea!! :( ;D ;D ;D The first cd's I ever heard were from the library. One was Haitink's recording of the Sinfonia Antartica;the other was......?!! Unfortunately,I'm not sure? I think it might have been de Falla?!! ::) A Dutoit cd,maybe? Luckily for me,I did have a cd player!! :) I think it lasted about 16 or 17 years. It was still working when I threw it away;but the on-off toggle button had gone wonky. You could play it through the DIN sockets at the back,though. I'm on my third cd player now!!

I'm playing this cd,now. I like everything on this cd. I like the Sinfonietta very much. It's full of good tunes and ideas. I also like the Piano concertino. I prefer the Seventh Symphony to the third and eighth symphonies. There are some very stirring and exciting pasages for brass in the third;but the inspiration seemed less consistent and the ideas less memorable than some other Tubin symphonies. The eighth is my least favourite,so far. They are still well worth listening too,though. The Seventh,however,is,to my ears,full of interesting,arresting ideas. All in all,one of the most enjoyable cd's in the bis cycle,imho (as they say).

(http://i.imgur.com/9KIuTFG.jpg)
Yes cilgwyn, it was hopeless to attempt to play the CD on the turntable of the microwave oven. I had to get a CD player in the end.  8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 09, 2017, 09:42:41 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 09, 2017, 09:47:54 AM
I googled how to convert a microwave into a turntable motor, and I found:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Microwave-Motor-Crank-Charger/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Microwave-Motor-Crank-Charger/)

You’re welcome  0:)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 09, 2017, 10:52:01 AM
I googled how to convert a microwave into a turntable motor, and I found:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Microwave-Motor-Crank-Charger/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Microwave-Motor-Crank-Charger/)

You’re welcome  0:)

Brilliant Karl,
Those photos make the turntable conversion process look like a piece of cake (no pun intended).
 ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 10, 2017, 07:41:32 AM
Just think vandermolen. You can listen to your cd and heat up your frozen curry and chips on the same machine. And all at the same time! Your cd might even smell of curry when you take it out?! Yummy! :P ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 10, 2017, 01:07:19 PM
Just think vandermolen. You can listen to your cd and heat up your frozen curry and chips on the same machine. And all at the same time! Your cd might even smell of curry when you take it out?! Yummy! :P ;D
I think that it would be a suitable device for playing the following work cilgwyn:

'Tapioca' by Sibelius, performed with choral accompaniment by the Ambrosia Singers conducted by Charles Munch.

I need to get out more.  ::)

 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 10, 2017, 05:29:47 PM
Tubin is such an awesome composer. I especially love his Symphony No. 4, “Sinfonia Lirica”. This could very much be considered his ‘pastoral symphony’.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 10, 2017, 08:46:58 PM
Tubin is such an awesome composer. I especially love his Symphony No. 4, “Sinfonia Lirica”. This could very much be considered his ‘pastoral symphony’.
That's interesting John. I lent the BIS recording to a former colleague who said that it reminded him of VW's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. This is one occasion where I prefer the BIS version to the one on Alba. I think that the BIS one is live, hopefully in front of the composer.

Christo will know.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on May 10, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
That's interesting John. I lent the BIS recording to a former colleague who said that it reminded him of VW's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. This is one occasion where I prefer the BIS version to the one on Alba. I think that the BIS one is live, hopefully in front of the composer.

Christo will know.  :)
I know that Järvi, after his exile, visited Tubin in Stockholm and proposed (promised) to record all symphonies. I also know that Tubin came to Bergen to hear the Fourth (he'd prepared the score in advance, it had been damaged during the 1944 Soviet bombing of Tallinn) - and yes, I think he attended this live performance that I also prefer for its liveliness. Good to know that this is what Tubin heard at the end of his life.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 10, 2017, 10:22:23 PM
I know that Järvi, after his exile, visited Tubin in Stockholm and proposed (promised) to record all symphonies. I also know that Tubin came to Bergen to hear the Fourth (he'd prepared the score in advance, it had been damaged during the 1944 Soviet bombing of Tallinn) - and yes, I think he attended this live performance that I also prefer for its liveliness. Good to know that this is what Tubin heard at the end of his life.  :)
Thank you  :)
Yes, I agree with you. It is very nice when these composers, whose music had to a lesser or greater extent, been ignored during their lives, see some recognition of their music before they pass on. HB, Tubin and Arnell come to mind.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 11, 2017, 03:42:55 AM
Tubin is such an awesome composer. I especially love his Symphony No. 4, “Sinfonia Lirica”. This could very much be considered his ‘pastoral symphony’.

Curious timing, as I cued up that symphony while driving to Alewife this morning  8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 11, 2017, 05:21:19 AM
That's interesting John. I lent the BIS recording to a former colleague who said that it reminded him of VW's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. This is one occasion where I prefer the BIS version to the one on Alba. I think that the BIS one is live, hopefully in front of the composer.

Christo will know.  :)

Oh yes, RVW’s Pastoral Symphony didn’t stray too far from my thoughts, but obviously the lyricism is completely different. Truth be told, I prefer the BIS recordings over the Alba recordings as there’s something about Jarvi’s incisiveness and his performances have this air of occasion about them that’s truly special.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 11, 2017, 05:22:07 AM
Curious timing, as I cued up that symphony while driving to Alewife this morning  8)

Wunderbar! 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 11, 2017, 06:55:13 AM
Wunderbar! 8)
The opening of the Fourth Symphony, especially in the Jarvi/BIS recording, is one of my favourite moments in Tubin's music.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 03:57:31 AM
The opening of the Fourth Symphony, especially in the Jarvi/BIS recording, is one of my favourite moments in Tubin's music.

It’s quite gorgeous indeed.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on October 19, 2017, 08:58:13 PM
Prior to tonight, I had listened to Tubin's Symphonies 1, 4, 5, and 9 - enjoying but not being particularly thrilled by them (though I love the inspiriting finale of the 4th and the defiant ending of the 5th). But tonight, I listened to his Symphony no. 2 The Legendary, an absolutely extraordinary work which is causing me to radically rethink my opinion of Tubin's music. This work has some of the most captivating orchestration I've ever heard - there's prominent use of orchestral piano (I'm always a sucker for that) and significant violin and viola solos. The opening is deeply atmospheric - legendary indeed. The slow movement is an inexorable funeral march which paves the way for the epic finale, which contains some absolutely gripping music. In short, this work was a great discovery for me :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on October 20, 2017, 04:33:49 AM
No.2 is definitely one of the ones that is able to make a big, immediate impression. From my one listen to the cycle I think I was also quite taken with some of the later ones, but the 2nd seems to be one that consistently gets good reactions.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on October 20, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
I think part of the reason I liked the Tubin 2nd so well is that some passages reminded me of my beloved Atterberg at his darkest and most tempestuous (e.g. the Storm movement of his 3rd Symphony and the outer movements of his 5th). Also, the prominent use of orchestral piano is a distinctive commonality between the two composers.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on October 21, 2017, 12:18:52 AM
I think part of the reason I liked the Tubin 2nd so well is that some passages reminded me of my beloved Atterberg at his darkest and most tempestuous (e.g. the Storm movement of his 3rd Symphony and the outer movements of his 5th). Also, the prominent use of orchestral piano is a distinctive commonality between the two composers.

Yes, I can see this Kyle. The very first CD I bought (even before I owned a CD player!) was of Tubin's Second Symphony 'The Legendary' and Symphony 6 on BIS. I think that I'd heard No.2 on LP. It is possibly my favourite of the cycle - very exciting, powerful and moving although I greatly admire No.3 (I don't agree with Robert Layton that the final movement is 'bombastic') and also nos. 1,4 and especially the slow movement of 5 as well as No.10. Apparently No.6 is the most often played - I enjoy it but not as much as the others I have mentioned. Layton reckons that No.8 is Tubin's 'masterpiece' but I rate the ones I have mentioned higher.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on November 03, 2017, 08:26:09 PM
Was just listening to Tubin's 6th and enjoying it greatly. It's a thunderous, percussive score that is given a sleazy, jazzy edge by the prominent use of a solo saxophone (Tubin seemed to pick up some tips from RVW's Symphonies 6 and 9 and Job in this regard). Rather unexpectedly, the symphony ends quietly and movingly with a magical string chord.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on November 03, 2017, 11:12:59 PM
Was just listening to Tubin's 6th and enjoying it greatly. It's a thunderous, percussive score that is given a sleazy, jazzy edge by the prominent use of a solo saxophone (Tubin seemed to pick up some tips from RVW's Symphonies 6 and 9 and Job in this regard). Rather unexpectedly, the symphony ends quietly and movingly with a magical string chord.
Must listen to it again as it isn't currently one of my favourites. Interesting point about the saxophones and VW connection Kyle.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on November 05, 2017, 07:14:43 AM
Was just listening to Tubin's 6th and enjoying it greatly. It's a thunderous, percussive score that is given a sleazy, jazzy edge by the prominent use of a solo saxophone (Tubin seemed to pick up some tips from RVW's Symphonies 6 and 9 and Job in this regard). Rather unexpectedly, the symphony ends quietly and movingly with a magical string chord.
Yes,let's hear it for Tubin's Sixth. It has always been one of my favourite Tubin symphonies. Indeed,only second to Tubin's Second,ever since I heard it,and recorded it (and the Second) off air on my portable radio cassette recorder,back in the  mid 1980's (the Second,anyway). I even kept the,still playable,cassette tapes. The recording of the Second being my oldest,extant,cassette recording! They make a wonderful pairing,on that Bis cd.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on November 05, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
Yesterday I was playing the Symphony 3. Simply, I can't remove from my mind that great melody that characterizes the 1st movement! I think it does honor the subtitle of this work 'Heroic'. It's really inspiring and blissful!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on November 05, 2017, 12:53:47 PM
Yesterday I was playing the Symphony 3. Simply, I can't remove from my mind that great melody that characterizes the 1st movement! I think it does honor the subtitle of this work 'Heroic'. It's really inspiring and blissful!
One of my favourites too Caesar.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on November 05, 2017, 02:13:38 PM
One of my favourites too Caesar.

Very nice! I consider the symphonies 2 to 6 the real meat of his symphonic output.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: springrite on November 05, 2017, 04:21:58 PM
Very nice! I consider the symphonies 2 to 6 the real meat of his symphonic output.

Absolutely!

But as us rib lovers know, some of the most delicious meat are to be found between the bones...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 05, 2018, 03:41:03 PM
Was Tubin a lost brother of Bowen? I realize that both are very similar  :P
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2018, 12:34:13 AM
Was Tubin a lost brother of Bowen? I realize that both are very similar  :P
Interesting, although Tubin is an incomparably greater composer I think. I'm yet to find a work by Bowen which I like.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 06, 2018, 03:45:27 AM
Was Tubin a lost brother of Bowen? I realize that both are very similar  :P
As someone who reads Private Eye,courtesy of my father,I couldn't help smiling at your post! :) I am of course referring to the (very) long running feature in the Letters pages,where someone sends in lookalike photos (and presumably,you were?) with the names swapped around ("Are they by any chance related?") This would make a fitting entry;although,unfortunately,not everyone would know who the h*** they were?!!   i.e.

(https://i.imgur.com/XXcTXob.jpg)        (https://i.imgur.com/vCXiX7p.jpg)

York Bowen                                                          Eduard Tubin
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2018, 03:52:24 AM
The pastime known in the US as Separated at Birth? . . .
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2018, 04:00:36 AM
As someone who reads Private Eye,courtesy of my father,I couldn't help smiling at your post! :) I am of course referring to the (very) long running feature in the Letters pages,where someone sends in lookalike photos (and presumably,you were?) with the names swapped around ("Are they by any chance related?") This would make a fitting entry;although,unfortunately,not everyone would know who the h*** they were?!!   i.e.

(https://i.imgur.com/XXcTXob.jpg)        (https://i.imgur.com/vCXiX7p.jpg)

York Bowen                                                          Eduard Tubin

Yes, I like that feature of Private Eye. George Lloyd and Margaret Rutherford could also have been 'separated at birth'.
(http://)
Margaret Rutherford at the top and George Lloyd below of course.   8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 11, 2018, 09:29:29 AM
Interesting, although Tubin is an incomparably greater composer I think. I'm yet to find a work by Bowen which I like.

In terms of artistic quality, Tubin is by far the greater composer for sure.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 11, 2018, 09:31:42 AM
As someone who reads Private Eye,courtesy of my father,I couldn't help smiling at your post! :) I am of course referring to the (very) long running feature in the Letters pages,where someone sends in lookalike photos (and presumably,you were?) with the names swapped around ("Are they by any chance related?") This would make a fitting entry;although,unfortunately,not everyone would know who the h*** they were?!!   i.e.

(https://i.imgur.com/XXcTXob.jpg)        (https://i.imgur.com/vCXiX7p.jpg)

York Bowen                                                          Eduard Tubin

Yes, it's undeniable their similarity

Yes, I like that feature of Private Eye. George Lloyd and Margaret Rutherford could also have been 'separated at birth'.
(http://)
Margaret Rutherford at the top and George Lloyd below of course.   8)


Maybe his mother/grandmother? ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: relm1 on July 11, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
Yes, I like that feature of Private Eye. George Lloyd and Margaret Rutherford could also have been 'separated at birth'.
(http://)
Margaret Rutherford at the top and George Lloyd below of course.   8)

Wait, you just posted the same picture twice!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2018, 09:24:21 PM
Wait, you just posted the same picture twice!
:)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 20, 2018, 08:39:47 AM
Finally managed to secure a copy of this set for a reasonable price. I like the Suite,coupled with his Fifth symphony. I just hope it's in the described condition ("very good")?!!

(https://i.imgur.com/eW0faui.jpg)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 20, 2018, 09:37:49 AM
I also bought the Alba recording of Tubin's Symphonies 4 & 7,because I find the applause on the Bis cd a bit annoying,and the Seventh is one of my favourites. It seems a nice combination. And without the intrusions! The Ninth,to date,is probably my least favourite. Not that I hate it. I just don't like it as much as some of the others. So,4 & 7 seems to make sense,to me. The review on Classics Today was a further incentive.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 20, 2018, 10:30:52 AM
Kratt will delight you, cilgwyn! Undoubtedly a great purchase. It contains some of the most magical music Tubin ever composed.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 21, 2018, 10:10:25 AM
I also bought the Alba recording of Tubin's Symphonies 4 & 7,because I find the applause on the Bis cd a bit annoying,and the Seventh is one of my favourites. It seems a nice combination. And without the intrusions! The Ninth,to date,is probably my least favourite. Not that I hate it. I just don't like it as much as some of the others. So,4 & 7 seems to make sense,to me. The review on Classics Today was a further incentive.

I much prefer 1 to 5 and 10 to the others.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 10:59:32 AM
My favourites are 2,6,5,3,7 & 10. I think 8 & 9 are the weakest,for me. The ideas seem less memorable. I like the Fourth,but I need to hear it without the disruption of the applause! How many time do I need to hear the same clapping sounds?!! ::) >:( ;D It disrupts the flow,for me! And I like No 7! I haven't quite made up my mind about No1! Not that I don't like it! It's been put on one side for another listen.
I must confess here,that I'm not a fan of live recordings! Not that I don't like any! I happen to think that Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony wouldn't be quite the same without the ambience created by an audience. I think partly because it's such a vast piece and such an event,when a performance does take place. I also like Etta James Rocks the House and Otis Redding at the Whisky A Go Go,and...............but that's for another thread!! ;D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on December 21, 2018, 11:02:08 AM
Love them all (though didn't play them in recent times). Favourites Nos. 4, 6, 7, 8, perhaps 10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 21, 2018, 12:46:14 PM
My favourites are 2,6,5,3,7 & 10. I think 8 & 9 are the weakest,for me. The ideas seem less memorable. I like the Fourth,but I need to hear it without the disruption of the applause! How many time do I need to hear the same clapping sounds?!! ::) >:( ;D It disrupts the flow,for me! And I like No 7! I haven't quite made up my mind about No1! Not that I don't like it! It's been put on one side for another listen.
I must confess here,that I'm not a fan of live recordings! Not that I don't like any! I happen to think that Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony wouldn't be quite the same without the ambience created by an audience. I think partly because it's such a vast piece and such an event,when a performance does take place. I also like Etta James Rocks the House and Otis Redding at the Whisky A Go Go,and...............but that's for another thread!! ;D
The problem there is that, in my view, the Jarvi performance of Symphony 4 is better than the one on Alba.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 21, 2018, 12:48:41 PM
Whenever I've tried listening to Tubin I've been repelled by all the damn noise, bass drums, cymbals, pots and pans, too much banging and clashing.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 21, 2018, 02:12:43 PM
Not all are like that. Then you should try the No. 4 Lirica, which is like his pastoral symphony. In this work I hear some reminiscences of VW. The Violin Concerto No. 1 is another good work. Also, the Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs is very pleasant too, without the thunderous noise of other works.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on December 21, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
Whenever I've tried listening to Tubin I've been repelled by all the damn noise, bass drums, cymbals, pots and pans, too much banging and clashing.

I do agree, Tubin’s orchestration can be a bit brass and percussion heavy, but I love it! :D In addition to the works Cesar suggested, also check out his Double Bass Concerto - certainly the finest work I’ve heard for the instrument.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 04:38:46 PM
The problem there is that, in my view, the Jarvi performance of Symphony 4 is better than the one on Alba.
Not according to the Hurwitz,it isn't! ::) ;D!! (see below) I also,find the decision to issue 4 & 9 as a live recording a bit eccentric;when all the others were studio recordings! It will be interesting to hear another recording of the Seventh,though. I  was only listening to this a few days ago,and I was thinking what a fine symphony it was and so concise. The Sixth is also one of my favourites. I listen to it and I think,this is grrrrr-eat.......why on earth doesn't vandermolen like this?!! :o ;D Although,I can see exactly why the Ghost of Baron Scarpia would (does!) hate it!! My template for the Alba recording of the Seventh will be the Jarvi recording. The Jarvi recording of the Fourth certainly has sweep and passion. I just wish they'd edited out those bloomin' clappers! I'm going to have to make a cd-r and edit the (Caution: asterix alert! And not the French cartoon character!)  b******* out! >:( ;D

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7304/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7304/)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on December 21, 2018, 04:43:45 PM
I also,find the decision to issue 4 & 9 as a live recording a bit eccentric;when all the others were studio recordings!

Because it was basically the first time any of Tubin's works got a hearing. It's not simply "let's throw a live recording in the middle of the series". These were the first ones recorded, and the fact they were even being performed was considered a big deal.

If you wanted consistency across the series, then they ALL would have been live.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 04:57:20 PM
Because it was basically the first time any of Tubin's works got a hearing. It's not simply "let's throw a live recording in the middle of the series". These were the first ones recorded, and the fact they were even being performed was considered a big deal.

If you wanted consistency across the series, then they ALL would have been live.
Oh,no! ::)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on December 22, 2018, 12:37:41 AM
Whenever I've tried listening to Tubin I've been repelled by all the damn noise, bass drums, cymbals, pots and pans, too much banging and clashing.
Only in those works where these 'noises' stand for the 'banality of evil' (Stalin's), comparable to Shosta 10. (I.e. especially symphony 6, but also 7 and 8).

Because it was basically the first time any of Tubin's works got a hearing. It's not simply "let's throw a live recording in the middle of the series". These were the first ones recorded, and the fact they were even being performed was considered a big deal.

If you wanted consistency across the series, then they ALL would have been live.
Right. Also great to know: Tubin himself was present at the live recording of No. 4, Sinfonia Lirica, in Bergen (Norway).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 03:32:55 AM
That is good to know! :) I'm looking forward to hearing the Volmer recording,though. It will be interesting to hear a different account.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 04:13:01 AM
My apologies for being a bit on the fiery side, last night! The lager didn't help! Thank goodness I wasn't in a bar! I can just imagine a brawl erupting over my remarks about live recordings of Tubin;and knowing my luck,having to run for my life,out through the front door! ::) :(
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 22, 2018, 04:52:38 AM
Not according to the Hurwitz,it isn't! ::) ;D!! (see below) I also,find the decision to issue 4 & 9 as a live recording a bit eccentric;when all the others were studio recordings! It will be interesting to hear another recording of the Seventh,though. I  was only listening to this a few days ago,and I was thinking what a fine symphony it was and so concise. The Sixth is also one of my favourites. I listen to it and I think,this is grrrrr-eat.......why on earth doesn't vandermolen like this?!! :o ;D Although,I can see exactly why the Ghost of Baron Scarpia would (does!) hate it!! My template for the Alba recording of the Seventh will be the Jarvi recording. The Jarvi recording of the Fourth certainly has sweep and passion. I just wish they'd edited out those bloomin' clappers! I'm going to have to make a cd-r and edit the (Caution: asterix alert! And not the French cartoon character!)  b******* out! >:( ;D

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7304/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7304/)

I do like No.6 just not one of my very favourites (2,4,3,1,5,10). It's one of the most confident of the symphonies whereas the ones I like have more nervous tension about them, which is something I always relate to.  I find the opening of No.4 much more moving on BIS than on Alba. I'd like to write more but have been instructed to help with the gardening.  >:D
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 06:35:38 AM
I think I'll probably enjoy the Bis Fourth more after hearing the Alba recording?!! It will be interesting to hear another view,though! The Sixth seems more like Tubin in Khatchaturian mode! I find it both dark in mood,epic and viscerally thrilling by turns. It was also,the second Tubin symphony I heard,via a Radio 3 broadcast,around the mid 80's. Around the time I also heard a R3 broadcast of No2. I taped both on my radio cassette recorder. I was living in a guest house at the time,and allot younger! I kept both cassettes,for old times sake,because they were the oldest off-air tapes still in my collection & they still play! The cassette of No2 is dated 1985! It was a  good few years before I heard the others.
I find the eighth and Ninth  the most problematic. The ideas just don't seem to grab me,like the others. I played the First Symphony last night. I may have been in the wrong mood ::) ;D,but I just found the second movement a bit on the bombastic side,and felt compelled to turn it off! It is an early effort,though;and I will have another go!

PS:I hate gardening.........which is a good thing,considering there is concrete and tarmac in front of me,here! Maybe,I could have a go? I'll have a look on ebay and see if I can find a cheap pneumatic drill. I've always fancied a go on one of those things!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on December 22, 2018, 09:33:31 AM
I do like No.6 just not one of my very favourites (2,4,3,1,5,10). It's one of the most confident of the symphonies whereas the ones I like have more nervous tension about them, which is something I always relate to.  I find the opening of No.4 much more moving on BIS than on Alba. I'd like to write more but have been instructed to help with the gardening.  >:D

Interesting, Jeffrey - I find no. 6 to have plenty of nervous tension about it. I especially love the maliciously sleazy saxophone solos which put me in mind of VW's 6th and 9th symphonies. No. 1 has garnered high praise by some members here but it didn't strike me as being one of the better ones of the cycle, on first listen at least. I'll have to give it another go.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 03:17:10 PM
I agree!! I would say No 6 has got allot of nervous tension. I must admit,I've never used that term to describe music before (I obviously must get out more) but it's definitely there;now you mention it! And kyjo is absolutely spot on about that saxophone. I like the connection with VW's 6th and 9th. Very interesting! I love VW's use of the saxophone in those symphonies.
I find No 1 a bit bombastic,in places,for my taste. I've had to switch it off twice! It is a First symphony,though. The Second symphony is where it all comes together for me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 12:41:02 AM
No.6 reminds me of Prokofiev. I must give it another listen to following the song and dance about it here.
 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 05:45:21 AM
I also downloaded the torso of his eleventh! I didn't really see that much point in buying it. Well,not at the moment!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on December 23, 2018, 11:02:19 AM
I also downloaded the torso of his eleventh! I didn't really see that much point in buying it. Well,not at the moment!
Even heard it live in Amsterdam: Neeme Järvi conducting the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, back in 1990 IIRC.

Also heard the Fifth (under Arvo Volmer) and Sixth (under Eri Klas) live, in Utrecht, with the Radio PhO, back in the later 1990s. The Sixth my favourite already then, and quite an event to hear it in the concert hall.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 04:15:33 PM
Good news! My set of Tubin's Kratt is in good condition and played without problems. It's great to hear it complete. :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: André on June 28, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
I do agree, Tubin’s orchestration can be a bit brass and percussion heavy , but I love it! :D In addition to the works Cesar suggested, also check out his Double Bass Concerto - certainly the finest work I’ve heard for the instrument.

Tubin lovers wouldn’t have it any other way, no?  :P

On that subject, I compared the 5th in versions by Järvi père et fils this week. It struck me that the engineering did make a difference when addressing the brass and percussion prominence. For example, in the coda of the 5th the BIS engineers clearly and neatly separate the timpani antiphonally (that’s Neeme’s version), while on Telarc (Paavo) the sound is a bit more blended, the left/right battle of the timps slightly less striking. Same amount of decibels, but bigger sonic impact/drama achieved thanks to the hyper-lucid recording in the Stockholm hall.

I think that Tubin doesn’t play itself. It takes the utmost commitment from conductor and orchestra, but also great skills from the production team.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 28, 2019, 12:49:21 PM
I've always preferred Neemi Järvi's reading of this 5th symphony over others. He nails the works and brings all the energy to the listeners' ears. My only minor complaint about his cycle is the inclusion of clapping at the end of the 4th Symphony.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2019, 01:09:32 PM
I've always preferred Neemi Järvi's reading of this 5th symphony over others. He nails the works and brings all the energy to the listeners' ears. My only minor complaint about his cycle is the inclusion of clapping at the end of the 4th Symphony.
I prefer Jarvi Senior's BIS series to any other versions of the symphonies.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 28, 2019, 03:02:48 PM
I prefer Jarvi Senior's BIS series to any other versions of the symphonies.

Me too. I failed to clarify that  :-[
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: André on June 28, 2019, 05:07:23 PM
Cross posted from the WAYL thread:

Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6139tZFtqZL.jpg)

My, oh my! More good stuff from the complete symphonies set of Eduard Tubin. Even when he ends a work quietly (symph no 8 ) the journey is eventful. When he ends triumphantly (no 3) there’s no mistaking the proudly cathartic purpose behind the cascading torrents of music.

Is it me, or do I hear an almost blatant imitation of Respighi’s Pines of Rome (The Pines of the Appian Way) in the coda of the 3rd symphony?  This was a ‘war symphony’ (1943) so I guess that some good old-fashioned tub-thumping is excusable. After all, Shostakovich achieved fame in the West with his own clangorous Leningrad symphony barely a year before Tubin completed his third.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 28, 2019, 06:55:47 PM
It's similar indeed, the way the music slowly and progressively builds up to the triumphal ending. However, I wouldn't call it a blatant imitation, but mere coincidence.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on June 29, 2019, 05:21:51 AM
Cross posted from the WAYL thread:

Is it me, or do I hear an almost blatant imitation of Respighi’s Pines of Rome (The Pines of the Appian Way) in the coda of the 3rd symphony?  This was a ‘war symphony’ (1943) so I guess that some good old-fashioned tub-thumping is excusable. After all, Shostakovich achieved fame in the West with his own clangorous Leningrad symphony barely a year before Tubin completed his third.
Reviews of No.3 (Robert Layton I suspect) suggested that the first two movements are 'vintage Tubin' but that the last movement is 'bombastic'. Personally think that all three movements are vintage Tubin.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on June 30, 2019, 03:00:12 AM
My only minor complaint about his cycle is the inclusion of clapping at the end of the 4th Symphony.
True, but one could also see it in a different light. This live performance in Bergen was the big break-through for Tubin: he himself attended it and it led to the recording of the complete cycle for BIS (as Neeme Järvi had promised Tubin to do, at their first meeting after Järvi himself went into exile in 1980). In my imagination, the special atmosphere of the event 'shines through' this recording and the applause at the end reminds us about who were present and what an event it was.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: André on June 30, 2019, 03:19:59 AM
True, but one could also see it in a different light. This live performance in Bergen was the big break-through for Tubin: he himself attended it and it led to the rcording of the complete cycle for BIS (as Neeme Järvi had promised Tubin to do, at their first meeting after Järvi himself went into exile in 1980). In my imagination, the special atmosphere of the event 'shines through' this recording and the applause at the end reminds us about who where present and what an event it was.  :)

I didn’t know that, thanks for the context. When I bought the symphonies set a few years ago (from the Amazon MP) I didn’t notice there was no booklet/ leaflet inside, just the 5 discs. Therefore I have no info, not even track listings to rely on  ???. Thanks to the net the basic info can be had easily, but I doubt I would have come across that interesting bit of information without reading your post  :).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on June 30, 2019, 09:12:53 PM
Is it me, or do I hear an almost blatant imitation of Respighi’s Pines of Rome (The Pines of the Appian Way) in the coda of the 3rd symphony?  This was a ‘war symphony’ (1943) so I guess that some good old-fashioned tub-thumping is excusable. After all, Shostakovich achieved fame in the West with his own clangorous Leningrad symphony barely a year before Tubin completed his third.
So great to see you commenting on this wonderful composer! All of his symphonies are something special & I hope to play the Third again to see what you mean ('bombast' is nonsense of course; especially the 'bombast' of the final movement of the Sixth is very comparable with what Shosta was doing in his Tenth)).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2019, 09:31:31 PM
True, but one could also see it in a different light. This live performance in Bergen was the big break-through for Tubin: he himself attended it and it led to the recording of the complete cycle for BIS (as Neeme Järvi had promised Tubin to do, at their first meeting after Järvi himself went into exile in 1980). In my imagination, the special atmosphere of the event 'shines through' this recording and the applause at the end reminds us about who were present and what an event it was.  :)
Yes, I agree with you and find it very moving that Tubin was there - makes it very special I think.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on July 01, 2019, 07:34:48 PM
('bombast' is nonsense of course; especially the 'bombast' of the final movement of the Sixth is very comparable with what Shosta was doing in his Tenth)).

The "critics" have a quite blatant double-standard regarding the word bombast and similar terms - they would never dare apply it to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Shostakovich, etc. but are quick to demean the music of lesser-known composers such as Tubin with it...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2019, 10:54:48 PM
The "critics" have a quite blatant double-standard regarding the word bombast and similar terms - they would never dare apply it to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Shostakovich, etc. but are quick to demean the music of lesser-known composers such as Tubin with it...
Yes, a good point Kyle.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Madiel on July 02, 2019, 02:52:49 AM
The "critics" have a quite blatant double-standard regarding the word bombast and similar terms - they would never dare apply it to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Shostakovich, etc. but are quick to demean the music of lesser-known composers such as Tubin with it...

Oh I have quite definitely seen that word used for Shostakovich.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on July 06, 2019, 04:33:54 AM
And Mahler too (long ago)... and Tchaikovsky.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on February 29, 2020, 04:52:35 PM
Has someone ever watched/listened to this DVD?

(https://www.tubinsociety.com/WP/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tubin-LiljeDVD_esik_RGB.jpg)

This is the link of the webpage where it appears:

https://www.tubinsociety.com/?product=eduard-tubin-sumfoonia-nr-2-legendaarne-sumfoonia-nr-5-eduard-tubin-symphony-no-2-legendary-symphony-no-5-dvd&lang=en

Having listened to his 2nd I was astounded once again I got fascinated by such thrilling work. Drama, anger, epicness atmosphere aplenty. That DVD looks enticing btw.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 01, 2020, 12:50:15 AM
Has someone ever watched/listened to this DVD?

(https://www.tubinsociety.com/WP/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tubin-LiljeDVD_esik_RGB.jpg)

This is the link of the webpage where it appears:

https://www.tubinsociety.com/?product=eduard-tubin-sumfoonia-nr-2-legendaarne-sumfoonia-nr-5-eduard-tubin-symphony-no-2-legendary-symphony-no-5-dvd&lang=en

Having listened to his 2nd I was astounded once again I got fascinated by such thrilling work. Drama, anger, epicness atmosphere aplenty. That DVD looks enticing btw.
How interesting Cesar! Two of his greatest symphonies.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on March 15, 2020, 03:27:12 AM
Anyone listening to Eduard Tubin lately? He's a pretty interesting composer, I think. A fairly unique voice as a symphonist. Probably should be better known, maybe never will be.

I have the 3rd and 8th symphonies on BIS with Järvi the elder.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CSScG8MQL._SL500_.jpg)

I like the 3rd a whole lot better than the 8th though I should return to and reevaluate the 8th soon.

What entry in Järvi's set would be the one to get next? Are there competing Tubin symphony recordings to have emerged in the years and decades since this pioneering cycle?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on March 15, 2020, 05:47:10 AM
Anyone listening to Eduard Tubin lately? He's a pretty interesting composer, I think. A fairly unique voice as a symphonist. Probably should be better known, maybe never will be.

I have the 3rd and 8th symphonies on BIS with Järvi the elder.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CSScG8MQL._SL500_.jpg)

I like the 3rd a whole lot better than the 8th though I should return to and reevaluate the 8th soon.

What entry in Järvi's set would be the one to get next? Are there competing Tubin symphony recordings to have emerged in the years and decades since this pioneering cycle?

There are indeed two complete cycles available: the one by Järvi père and one by Arvo Volmer on the label Alba - both very good, but IMHO Järvi having the edge, though one might differ in opinion per symphony. Of course there are other fine recordings of individual symphonies too.

What to do after Nos. 3 and 8? I would recommend Järvi's coupling of Nos. 2 and 6 - very different, superb performances, a good Tubin test. After surviving that ordeal, you will be unstoppable. Though I don't play him that often, Tubin as a composer remains solidly in my Top 5. He's simply one of the finest symphonists I know of, each of his ten (No. 11 unfinished) symphonies a universe on their own as shows the real symphonist.  :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/955/MI0000955904.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on March 15, 2020, 06:55:35 AM
There are indeed two complete cycles available: the one by Järvi père and one by Arvo Volmer on the label Alba - both very good, but IMHO Järvi having the edge, though one might differ in opinion per symphony. Of course there are other fine recordings of individual symphonies too.

What to do after Nos. 3 and 8? I would recommend Järvi's coupling of Nos. 2 and 6 - very different, superb performances, a good Tubin test. After surviving that ordeal, you will be unstoppable. Though I don't play him that often, Tubin as a composer remains solidly in my Top 5. He's simply one of the finest symphonists I know of, each of his ten (No. 11 unfinished) symphonies a universe on their own as shows the real symphonist.  :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/955/MI0000955904.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Very good, thanks. I'll seek out that Järvi CD as soon as possible.

Edit; found a copy for two dollars plus shipping. Ordered it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on March 15, 2020, 08:15:37 AM
I fully endorse Christo's comments on Tubin. A most stupendous symphonist. The CD with symphonies 2 and 6 is likely the best among the series. Both works have an electrical power, fierceness and drive that it's hard not to be impressed. Anyone shouldn't go wrong with the rest of them. Also, Sinfonietta on Estonian motifs, the violín concertos and the ones
for balalaika and double bass have no waste either.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 15, 2020, 08:22:02 AM
I fully endorse Christo's comments on Tubin. A most stupendous symphonist. The CD with symphonies 2 and 6 is likely the best among the series. Both works have an electrical power, fierceness and drive that it's hard not to be impressed. Anyone shouldn't go wrong with the rest of them. Also, Sinfonietta on Estonian motifs, the violín concertos and the ones
for balalaika and double bass have no waste either.
Me too. My favourites are symphonies 1,2,3,4,5 and 10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on March 15, 2020, 12:05:31 PM
Found this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Rius4q4HL._SL450_.jpg)

... at a record store that I'd never been to. So once I get that other disc w/ symphonies 2 and 6 I will have the better half of the complete Tubin cycle. I'm not sure that I will ever hold him in as high of regard as some here, but I am excited to explore his music further.

One comment on BIS CDs: I've never seen any other label that puts out CDs that are AAD. Why did they do this, ie. analogue remastering? Are there benefits to it over digital mastering?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Christo on March 15, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Found this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Rius4q4HL._SL450_.jpg)

... at a record store that I'd never been to. So once I get that other disc w/ symphonies 2 and 6 I will have the better half of the complete Tubin cycle. I'm not sure that I will ever hold him in as high of regard as some here, but I am excited to explore his music further.

One comment on BIS CDs: I've never seen any other label that puts out CDs that are AAD. Why did they do this, ie. analogue remastering? Are there benefits to it over digital mastering?

The point being, this live recording in Bergen (see the booklet for details) of the Fourth 'Lirica' is where it all started. Tubin attended it, Järvi had just gone into exile from Soviet-occupied Estonia and had promised Tubin to record all of his symphonies, this concert being the start of the series. For many of us, me including, this recording is where it all started as well. I recall hearing it on the radio, not much later, and being hooked. It first appeared on LP - bought it - and was later combined with a fine recording of the Ninth and the Toccata on this cd.

Warmly recommended, especially if you're able to sense the atmosphere of the occasion (and don't mind the Norwegian audience's applause at the end of the Fourth.)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on March 15, 2020, 04:53:54 PM
The point being, this live recording in Bergen (see the booklet for details) of the Fourth 'Lirica' is where it all started. Tubin attended it, Järvi had just gone into exile from Soviet-occupied Estonia and had promised Tubin to record all of his symphonies, this concert being the start of the series. For many of us, me including, this recording is where it all started as well. I recall hearing it on the radio, not much later, and being hooked. It first appeared on LP - bought it - and was later combined with a fine recording of the Ninth and the Toccata on this cd.

Warmly recommended, especially if you're able to sense the atmosphere of the occasion (and don't mind the Norwegian audience's applause at the end of the Fourth.)

Thanks for that note—I didn't know that background. I'm glad I was able to find it for cheap. I'm going to spend more time with the 3rd and the 8th first but I will let everyone know what I think when I get around to No.4 and No.9
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 15, 2020, 11:48:22 PM
Found this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Rius4q4HL._SL450_.jpg)

... at a record store that I'd never been to. So once I get that other disc w/ symphonies 2 and 6 I will have the better half of the complete Tubin cycle. I'm not sure that I will ever hold him in as high of regard as some here, but I am excited to explore his music further.

One comment on BIS CDs: I've never seen any other label that puts out CDs that are AAD. Why did they do this, ie. analogue remastering? Are there benefits to it over digital mastering?
I think that's a great CD, especially Symphony No.4, the opening of which reminded a friend of mine of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. I prefer the BIS recording to the one on Alba, good as that is. Curious cover image of Tubin about to step into a partially submerged boat!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on March 18, 2020, 01:57:37 PM
The 4th is indeed a wonderful introduction to Tubin, warm and lyrical and positive throughout. The opening doesn't specifically remind me of RVW's Pastoral, but parts of the slow movement do. And a lush progression toward the end of the movement reminds me of Sancta Civitas.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on March 18, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
The 4th is indeed a wonderful introduction to Tubin, warm and lyrical and positive throughout. The opening doesn't specifically remind me of RVW's Pastoral, but parts of the slow movement do. And a lush progression toward the end of the movement reminds me of Sancta Civitas.
Interesting! I'll keep Sancta Civitas in mind when I next listen to it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2020, 07:41:12 PM
The 4th is indeed a wonderful introduction to Tubin, warm and lyrical and positive throughout. The opening doesn't specifically remind me of RVW's Pastoral, but parts of the slow movement do. And a lush progression toward the end of the movement reminds me of Sancta Civitas.

An incredibly beautiful work. Some interesting points of reference there. 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2020, 07:47:49 PM
I think that's a great CD, especially Symphony No.4, the opening of which reminded a friend of mine of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'. I prefer the BIS recording to the one on Alba, good as that is. Curious cover image of Tubin about to step into a partially submerged boat!

Yes, I agree --- the BIS recordings have an energy to them and a liveliness that the Volmer recordings don’t quite have, although I have to give a lot of credit to Volmer for recording so much Tubin, especially the complete ballet, Kratt, which will probably be the only recording we’ll see of this work.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2020, 08:11:46 PM
Me too. My favourites are symphonies 1,2,3,4,5 and 10.

I consider the first movement of Symphony No. 1 to be a masterpiece within itself. This was the first Tubin work I heard and it still stays with me to this day.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 12, 2020, 08:39:03 PM
Yes, I agree --- the BIS recordings have an energy to them and a liveliness that the Volmer recordings don’t quite have, although I have to give a lot of credit to Volmer for recording so much Tubin, especially the complete ballet, Kratt, which will probably be the only recording we’ll see of this work.

Very much agree with this John, much as I admire Volmer's recording. I find the Jarvi set more lyrical in some respects, certainly the opening of No.4 is more atmospheric in the older recording. Great to think that Tubin was present at that live performance.

No.1 is one of my favourites although usually its described as somehow 'apart' from the others - I don't really see this myself. Just a reminder that any fan of Tubin's should hear Kaljo Raid's magnificent (IMO and that of several others here) First Symphony (on Chandos). I need to get to grips with nos. 7,8 and 9. Robert Layton regards No.8 as the greatest but I've never enjoyed it as much as nos 1 to 5. Having said that I love No.10.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2020, 04:56:42 AM
Very much agree with this John, much as I admire Volmer's recording. I find the Jarvi set more lyrical in some respects, certainly the opening of No.4 is more atmospheric in the older recording. Great to think that Tubin was present at that live performance.

No.1 is one of my favourites although usually its described as somehow 'apart' from the others - I don't really see this myself. Just a reminder that any fan of Tubin's should hear Kaljo Raid's magnificent (IMO and that of several others here) First Symphony (on Chandos). I need to get to grips with nos. 7,8 and 9. Robert Layton regards No.8 as the greatest but I've never enjoyed it as much as nos 1 to 5. Having said that I love No.10.

I like the late symphonies of Tubin very much --- the musical language has become more terse, but the composer’s unique sound-world is still very much intact. I need to revisit that Raid 1st symphony (it’s somewhere in one of my many classical CD boxes). During my Tubin-a-thon, I’ll be revisiting the symphonies, but in the order they came on the original BIS recordings, which is what I own, I don’t own the Tubin box set (my dad owns this set as he wanted some Tubin in his own collection). I definitely plan on revisiting the complete ballet of Kratt as well. I’m sure you own this recording of Kratt from Volmer on Alba?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 13, 2020, 05:38:34 AM
I like the late symphonies of Tubin very much --- the musical language has become more terse, but the composer’s unique sound-world is still very much intact. I need to revisit that Raid 1st symphony (it’s somewhere in one of my many classical CD boxes). During my Tubin-a-thon, I’ll be revisiting the symphonies, but in the order they came on the original BIS recordings, which is what I own, I don’t own the Tubin box set (my dad owns this set as he wanted some Tubin in his own collection). I definitely plan on revisiting the complete ballet of Kratt as well. I’m sure you own this recording of Kratt from Volmer on Alba?
I do own the complete Kratt and have a feeling that I may have you to thank for it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2020, 05:41:17 AM
I do own the complete Kratt and have a feeling that I may have you to thank for it.

8) Very nice, Jeffrey. I thought I’d ask. I wish Järvi would’ve conducted the complete ballet, then we wouldn’t have any use for Volmer. ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 13, 2020, 05:46:00 AM
8) Very nice, Jeffrey. I thought I’d ask. I wish Järvi would’ve conducted the complete ballet, then we wouldn’t have any use for Volmer. ;)
Definitely John, although I enjoy the extracts conducted by Jarvi, with Symphony No.5 I think.
That 'Complete Kratt' is in pride of place right next to me here.  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2020, 05:48:35 AM
Definitely John, although I enjoy the extracts conducted by Jarvi, with Symphony No.5 I think.
That 'Complete Kratt' is in pride of place right next to me here.  :)

8) Oh yes, Järvi did a fine job with the suite from Kratt.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 28, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-541-42.jpg)

CD 1 out of 2 which includes two suites (one for violin and piano and one for solo violin), a sonata for solo violin and several short works for violin and piano. What I have to say is that all of this release is great and up to the expectations, there is not a single boring work, on the contrary, very tuneful and entertaining works, even the Prelude for violin and piano whose generic title would look few attractive is a quite lovely piece. Most of these miniatures stem from Estonian folk music. I enjoyed this a lot.

A self-recommending CD.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on July 05, 2021, 02:39:19 PM
Enjoying Tubin a bit lately, especially the 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies, but trying to keep an open mind to the later ones—I have 6, 8 and 9. All this is across three BIS CDs under Neeme Järvi, who makes a very fine case for his countryman's music. Wish there was more available. As it is, I'm collecting the BIS series here and there when I can find affordable single issues, rather than going for the box, which seems to contain not quite everything. I just ordered the disc with the 1st Symphony.

The 4th is likely my favorite, though it was a slow burn for me. It's a beautiful work.

I never would have discovered Tubin had I not found this disc at a local record store...:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CSScG8MQL._SL500_.jpg)

Grateful for the spontaneous discovery of a fine symphonist.

Anyone else listening to the work of Eduard Tubin?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 05, 2021, 02:59:11 PM
It's a while since I did my Tubin not-quite-deep-dive, I need to check to see if I have the Fourth ....
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on July 05, 2021, 03:17:04 PM
It's a while since I did my Tubin not-quite-deep-dive, I need to check to see if I have the Fourth ....

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts if/when you decide to revisit it, or his works in general.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 05, 2021, 04:05:32 PM
I bought all of those Tubin Järvi recordings on BIS individually, which is really the way to buy them as they contain couplings that were never reissued in the symphony box set came out a bit later. It’s strange that BIS never got around to reissuing these works like Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs, Kratt Suite, Piano Concertino et. al. Anyway, if you haven’t heard the complete Kratt, then do check out this recording:

(https://img.discogs.com/q4SbXFMO9c5AnLDC6j6ZhSr2oeo=/fit-in/600x587/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-14301202-1571775117-1176.jpeg.jpg)

I haven’t listened to any Tubin in quite some time, but I’m sure I’ll circle back around to him in due time. Perhaps tomorrow.

Special note: Volmer did record all of the symphonies on the Alba label, but I never thought of his performances as being on par with Järvi. He did a great job in Kratt, though, but there’s no competition for this ballet in its complete form. I’m sure if Järvi recorded the whole ballet, I’d be whistling a different tune.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on July 05, 2021, 07:39:19 PM
I haven't listened to Tubin in a while either, and since I bought the symphonies individually (Jarvi), I missed out on the 1st as it was out of print at the time. So with the caveat that I've never heard the 1st, I think my favorites are the 4th and the 6th, which are as far apart expressively as the corresponding Mahler symphonies. The 4th is so sensually beautiful, the 6th so dark, driven, and in places, outright violent! The others that I know are no less worth checking out... of the others my favorite is probably the 7th, which seems to take up where the 6th left off, and is more restrained and economical.

I agree that he was a fine symphonist, and it would be nice to hear other readings besides Jarvi's.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2021, 10:13:38 PM
Enjoying Tubin a bit lately, especially the 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies, but trying to keep an open mind to the later ones—I have 6, 8 and 9. All this is across three BIS CDs under Neeme Järvi, who makes a very fine case for his countryman's music. Wish there was more available. As it is, I'm collecting the BIS series here and there when I can find affordable single issues, rather than going for the box, which seems to contain not quite everything. I just ordered the disc with the 1st Symphony.

The 4th is likely my favorite, though it was a slow burn for me. It's a beautiful work.

I never would have discovered Tubin had I not found this disc at a local record store...:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CSScG8MQL._SL500_.jpg)

Grateful for the spontaneous discovery of a fine symphonist.

Anyone else listening to the work of Eduard Tubin?
Of the later ones my favourite is definitely No.10. I know that many people consider no.8 to be his masterpiece but I prefer 1,2,3,4,5 and 10. I think that the late music writer and critic Robert Layton, for example, found the finale of No.3 to be 'bombastic' but I don't agree at all.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2021, 10:18:05 PM
I haven't listened to Tubin in a while either, and since I bought the symphonies individually (Jarvi), I missed out on the 1st as it was out of print at the time. So with the caveat that I've never heard the 1st, I think my favorites are the 4th and the 6th, which are as far apart expressively as the corresponding Mahler symphonies. The 4th is so sensually beautiful, the 6th so dark, driven, and in places, outright violent! The others that I know are no less worth checking out... of the others my favorite is probably the 7th, which seems to take up where the 6th left off, and is more restrained and economical.

I agree that he was a fine symphonist, and it would be nice to hear other readings besides Jarvi's.
I have the Volmer set as well. I prefer Jarvi but they are both excellent. You must hear No.1, which is rather neglected but is one of my favourites.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on July 05, 2021, 10:41:18 PM
I'm really grateful for access to streaming services which unlock the different Tubin recordings for me. I first bought the complete symphony set and then the single issues about 20 years ago for the coupling. I didn't explore any alternatives for a long time, so have enjoyed the chance to hear much more. I need to return to them soon, as like others here, I think he is very worthwhile.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2021, 04:38:54 AM
I have the Volmer set as well. I prefer Jarvi but they are both excellent. You must hear No.1, which is rather neglected but is one of my favourites.

I also think highly of Symphony No. 1. That first movement alone is like a miniature masterpiece.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on July 06, 2021, 06:48:20 AM
I have the Volmer set as well. I prefer Jarvi but they are both excellent. You must hear No.1, which is rather neglected but is one of my favourites.

Thanks for the recommendation! #1 is now on my "bucket list"...
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2021, 08:21:54 AM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-541-42.jpg)

CD 1 out of 2 which includes two suites (one for violin and piano and one for solo violin), a sonata for solo violin and several short works for violin and piano. What I have to say is that all of this release is great and up to the expectations, there is not a single boring work, on the contrary, very tuneful and entertaining works, even the Prelude for violin and piano whose generic title would look few attractive is a quite lovely piece. Most of these miniatures stem from Estonian folk music. I enjoyed this a lot.

A self-recommending CD.

Thanks, Cesar. You remind that I need to buy this recording. Somehow it had slipped through the cracks.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2021, 09:13:04 AM
Thanks for the recommendation! #1 is now on my "bucket list"...

Mine, as well.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2021, 09:30:00 AM
I haven't listened to Tubin in a while either, and since I bought the symphonies individually (Jarvi), I missed out on the 1st as it was out of print at the time. So with the caveat that I've never heard the 1st, I think my favorites are the 4th and the 6th, which are as far apart expressively as the corresponding Mahler symphonies. The 4th is so sensually beautiful, the 6th so dark, driven, and in places, outright violent! The others that I know are no less worth checking out... of the others my favorite is probably the 7th, which seems to take up where the 6th left off, and is more restrained and economical.

I agree that he was a fine symphonist, and it would be nice to hear other readings besides Jarvi's.

I, too, have a strong preference for the 7th. I’d say my favorites are the 1st, 4th, 6th and 7th. To any potential Tubin listener out there in internet land, give this composer a bit of time to grow on you, because I do believe he rewards those who are patient.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on July 07, 2021, 03:44:15 AM
I, too, have a strong preference for the 7th. I’d say my favorites are the 1st, 4th, 6th and 7th. To any potential Tubin listener out there in internet land, give this composer a bit of time to grow on you, because I do believe he rewards those who are patient.

I second all that I have read over the last page or so. Tubin has become one of my constant touchstones, and I would increasingly push him toward the top of my 'must have' list. Symphonies 4 and 7, particularly carve out play space here, but I would agree that his whole symphonic oeuvre is first rate. No duds for me, as he has been one of those journeys that have been most rewarding for me in my slow, but growing understanding of serious music.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2021, 05:39:02 AM
I second all that I have read over the last page or so. Tubin has become one of my constant touchstones, and I would increasingly push him toward the top of my 'must have' list. Symphonies 4 and 7, particularly carve out play space here, but I would agree that his whole symphonic oeuvre is first rate. No duds for me, as he has been one of those journeys that have been most rewarding for me in my slow, but growing understanding of serious music.

Very nice. Outside of the symphonies, what would you say are your favorite works?
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on July 07, 2021, 09:40:47 AM
Very nice. Outside of the symphonies, what would you say are your favorite works?

Back in the days of no downloads, having bought the complete symphonies, I remember going and re-purchasing the individual BIS volumes so I could get what I would have described as the 'incidental' music  :). Works such as The Balalaika Concerto, Kratt, Estonian Dances,  were all early companions while I crawled out of complete ignorance to slightly less ignorance. For the sake of really quite happy nostalgia, lots of those works make me smile.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2021, 09:58:20 AM
Back in the days of no downloads, having bought the complete symphonies, I remember going and re-purchasing the individual BIS volumes so I could get what I would have described as the 'incidental' music  :). Works such as The Balalaika Concerto, Kratt, Estonian Dances,  were all early companions while I crawled out of complete ignorance to slightly less ignorance. For the sake of really quite happy nostalgia, lots of those works make me smile.

Great to read. I’m less impressed with the Balalaika Concerto and this is mainly because I don’t think the instrument warrants it’s own concerto, but Tubin made showed me! ;) The Double Bass Concerto is a pretty interesting work, though.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 07, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
I'm very fond of the two violin concertos, above all the first one, which is quite catchy and memorable. No. 2 is a more earnest composition. But without doubts, the Sinfonietta on Estonian motifs is my favorite orchestral work apart from the symphonies. The tunes there stick in your mind for quite a while.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2021, 12:31:39 PM
I'm very fond of the two violin concertos, above all the first one, which is quite catchy and memorable. No. 2 is a more earnest composition. But without doubts, the Sinfonietta on Estonian motifs is my favorite orchestral work apart from the symphonies. The tunes there stick in your mind for quite a while.

Yes! A big thumbs up for the Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs. What a fun piece. I’ll have to revisit those VCs --- it’s just been too long and I don’t remember them all that well. A special mention for the Piano Concertino, which is another work outside the afore mentioned favored symphonies that struck a special chord with me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Brian on July 26, 2021, 05:42:19 AM
To my surprise, my new favorite Tubin piece is the double bass concerto?! The new Rick Stotijn performance on BIS is really excellent, and benefits both from lively tempos - what a fun work - and from a shamelessly spotlit soloist, important to do on a recording since Tubin really incorporates a full orchestra and a lot of material. It's easy to imagine that in a live performance, the bass player would at times be hard to hear.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on July 26, 2021, 11:06:36 AM
To my surprise, my new favorite Tubin piece is the double bass concerto?! The new Rick Stotijn performance on BIS is really excellent, and benefits both from lively tempos - what a fun work - and from a shamelessly spotlit soloist, important to do on a recording since Tubin really incorporates a full orchestra and a lot of material. It's easy to imagine that in a live performance, the bass player would at times be hard to hear.

Thank you for posting this. I suspect I would have missed the Tubin on this release, but the sound quality and presence of the double bass seems much clearer than the alternative BIS recording with Håkan Ehrén. I have also really enjoyed this piece over the years, but the newer recording and crisper spotlighting of the double bass makes all the difference  :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 19, 2022, 05:43:41 PM
I don't get why Tubin hasn't gained the opportunity of being more often recorded yet. I'm listening to his 4th Symphony in A major Sinfonia Lirica, and frankly being sincere, without any overstatement, this one of the most inexhaustibly and inextinguisably beautiful things I've ever heard in my life. And it could possibly go to one of my top ten symphonies ever, even above the stormy, darkly atmospheric and exciting La légendaire. Tubin is a symphonist of real stature. I'm in awe in how he managed to make this symphonyc cyclic with motifs that evoke intense yearning, longing, and the salvation until the last second... the reencounter. My apologies for being so subjective, but I can't help myself!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 19, 2022, 06:38:39 PM
I don't get why Tubin hasn't gained the opportunity of being more often recorded yet. I'm listening to his 4th Symphony in A major Sinfonia Lirica, and frankly being sincere, without any overstatement, this one of the most inexhaustibly and inextinguisably beautiful things I've ever heard in my life. And it could possibly go to one of my top ten symphonies ever, even above the stormy, darkly atmospheric and exciting La légendaire. Tubin is a symphonist of real stature. I'm in awe in how he managed to make this symphonyc cyclic with motifs that evoke intense yearning, longing, and the salvation until the last second... the reencounter. My apologies for being so subjective, but I can't help myself!

I think it would be interesting to pair Tubin's 4th with Vaughan Williams' 5th. Both are war-time symphonies and both are representative of reflective solace during this turbulent time. Hell, I might end up putting them together in a fake concert myself, but for tomorrow night. In response to your own thoughts as to why he's not performed more. It beats the hell out of me, but we can blame orchestra boards and really the record labels as well for what seems like some kind of resistance or reluctance to give this music more exposure. Honestly, I'm just grateful for BIS and to Järvi for having the foresight to record so much of Tubin's music to begin with. Of course, Volmer championed the composer via Alba Records, but, honestly, his performances are no match for the searing intensity of Järvi. But I do have to thank Volmer for recording the complete Kratt, which is the best thing he's done for the composer. Anyway, to end this post, I'm thankful for everything that has been released of his music.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 19, 2022, 08:06:33 PM
I think it would be interesting to pair Tubin's 4th with Vaughan Williams' 5th. Both are war-time symphonies and both are representative of reflective solace during this turbulent time. Hell, I might end up putting them together in a fake concert myself, but for tomorrow night. In response to your own thoughts as to why he's not performed more. It beats the hell out of me, but we can blame orchestra boards and really the record labels as well for what seems like some kind of resistance or reluctance to give this music more exposure. Honestly, I'm just grateful for BIS and to Järvi for having the foresight to record so much of Tubin's music to begin with. Of course, Volmer championed the composer via Alba Records, but, honestly, his performances are no match for the searing intensity of Järvi. But I do have to thank Volmer for recording the complete Kratt, which is the best thing he's done for the composer. Anyway, to end this post, I'm thankful for everything that has been released of his music.

Thanks for the reply, John. I can't but concur with you, and that sounds like a good plan. Yes, Vaughan Williams's 5th and the Tubin share that kind of wistfulness. I find them thoroughly endearing and moving.

As for to Kratt, another remarkable work indeed. Whenever I feel in the mood for it, the rewards are not delayed to appear.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 19, 2022, 08:26:22 PM
Thanks for the reply, John. I can't but concur with you, and that sounds like a good plan. Yes, Vaughan Williams's 5th and the Tubin share that kind of wistfulness. I find them thoroughly endearing and moving.

As for to Kratt, another remarkable work indeed. Whenever I feel in the mood for it, the rewards are not delayed to appear.

Thanks, Cesar. You've actually motivated me to revisit Tubin as I've been neglecting his music as of late.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on April 20, 2022, 07:07:20 AM
The Lirica is indeed a wonderful work, and I have also wondered why it isn't performed more often. I've thought of the pairing with RVW before as well - and towards the end of the slow movement (in the Tubin), there's a progression that briefly reminds me of a passage in Sancta Civitas. I love Jarvi's reading but have not heard any others.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: dhibbard on April 20, 2022, 09:55:55 AM
Same here....You've actually motivated me to revisit Tubin
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2022, 10:02:13 AM
The Lirica is indeed a wonderful work, and I have also wondered why it isn't performed more often. I've thought of the pairing with RVW before as well - and towards the end of the slow movement (in the Tubin), there's a progression that briefly reminds me of a passage in Sancta Civitas. I love Jarvi's reading but have not heard any others.
+1
A friend of mine said that Tubin's 4th Symphony reminded him of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 20, 2022, 10:22:47 AM
+1
A friend of mine said that Tubin's 4th Symphony reminded him of Vaughan Williams's 'A Pastoral Symphony'.

That would be a fine pairing, too. I just thought of RVW's 5th because it was more contemporaneous with Tubin's 4th.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2022, 10:35:04 AM
That would be a fine pairing, too. I just thought of RVW's 5th because it was more contemporaneous with Tubin's 4th.
I rather like this coupling John of Tubin's 5th Symphony with Sibelius's 2nd Symphony:
(http://)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 20, 2022, 10:36:47 AM
I rather like this coupling John of Tubin's 5th Symphony with Sibelius's 2nd Symphony:
(http://)

That's a pretty good recording, Jeffrey. I haven't listened to it in years.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2022, 10:43:03 AM
That's a pretty good recording, Jeffrey. I haven't listened to it in years.
I bought the newish SACD version of it John. However the Jarvi (Senior) BIS cycle is my favourite.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 20, 2022, 10:54:42 AM
I bought the newish SACD version of it John. However the Jarvi (Senior) BIS cycle is my favourite.

Mine as well. :)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on April 20, 2022, 11:28:56 AM
I bought the newish SACD version of it John. However the Jarvi (Senior) BIS cycle is my favourite.

100%. One of the first full symphony cycles I ever bought, and I love it inordinately.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 20, 2022, 12:21:35 PM
The Lirica is indeed a wonderful work, and I have also wondered why it isn't performed more often. I've thought of the pairing with RVW before as well - and towards the end of the slow movement (in the Tubin), there's a progression that briefly reminds me of a passage in Sancta Civitas. I love Jarvi's reading but have not heard any others.

Volmer suits good too, but the BIS recording has a passion and intensity that can't be surpassed, and the very composer was there in the performance. A quite special recording.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: DavidW on April 20, 2022, 02:42:00 PM
This is the only Tubin recording I've ever heard, but I love it.  It is so memorable that I immediately recognized it after a gap of perhaps 15 years!

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjM2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

Edit: stupid spelling!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on April 20, 2022, 05:09:58 PM
This is the only Tubin recording I've ever heard, but I love it.  It is so memorable that I immediately recognizing it after a gap of perhaps 15 years!

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjM2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

You should get the whole series, Dave!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on May 12, 2022, 01:23:39 PM
Definitely my favorite symphonies by him are nos. 2, 4, 6, and 10. The others have their moments, but they can’t compare with the singular level of inspiration of these masterpieces IMO.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vers la flamme on May 12, 2022, 02:33:50 PM
This is the only Tubin recording I've ever heard, but I love it.  It is so memorable that I immediately recognized it after a gap of perhaps 15 years!

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjM2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

Edit: stupid spelling!

That CD was my introduction to Tubin, random record store find a couple of years ago. Still love it.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on May 12, 2022, 03:10:31 PM
Definitely my favorite symphonies by him are nos. 2, 4, 6, and 10. The others have their moments, but they can’t compare with the singular level of inspiration of these masterpieces IMO.

I'd add the No. 3 in my list too.

My general order would be something like this: 2, 4, 3, 10, 6, 7, 1, 5, 8, 9
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 12, 2022, 09:01:39 PM
I'd add the No. 3 in my list too.

My general order would be something like this: 2, 4, 3, 10, 6, 7, 1, 5, 8, 9

Let's see - mine would be:

2,4,3,5,1,10,6,8,7,9 - not that unlike yours Cesar.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: DavidW on May 13, 2022, 03:48:16 AM
So I'm getting that I should try Tubin's 2nd symphony... I'll try to remember that.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on May 13, 2022, 05:37:10 AM
Let's see - mine would be:

2,4,3,5,1,10,6,8,7,9 - not that unlike yours Cesar.

Hmm... I don't know 1, but mine would be (with some day-to-day variation depending on my mood):

4, 6, 7, 5, 8, 2, 3, 9, 10
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2022, 05:39:04 AM
Hmm... I don't know 1, but mine would be (with some day-to-day variation depending on my mood):

4, 6, 7, 5, 8, 2, 3, 9, 10

I think highly of the 7th, too. In fact, that whole disc is one of my favorites (coupled with the Piano Concertino and Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs).
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 13, 2022, 06:32:38 AM
I wish you would all stop it. Posting about music. I'm minding my own business here having a Shostakovich SQ day before finishing an initial survey of Hindemith SQs, and now I have to listen to all of the Tubin symphonies to decide whether my favourites have changed, before I can carry on exploring Schnittke. It isn't fair and I object.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2022, 06:39:29 AM
I wish you would all stop it. Posting about music. I'm minding my own business here having a Shostakovich SQ day before finishing an initial survey of Hindemith SQs, and now I have to listen to all of the Tubin symphonies to decide whether my favourites have changed, before I can carry on exploring Schnittke. It isn't fair and I object.

Hah! ;D Well, just ignore the comments and proceed with Shostakovich, Schnittke and Hindemith. :) You know the Tubin symphonies, but there is so much music which awaits your discovery!

P.S. You should check out Isang Yun's music and I'm not just saying this because he's my current avatar. ;) I think there's a lyricism in his music that you'll connect with.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on May 13, 2022, 07:09:39 AM
I'd add the No. 3 in my list too.

My general order would be something like this: 2, 4, 3, 10, 6, 7, 1, 5, 8, 9

I need to revisit No. 3 - it’s been a few years since I’ve listened to it. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever listened to No. 9, but it seems to be most people’s least favorite, so I guess I’m not missing out on much. ;)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: kyjo on May 13, 2022, 07:10:38 AM
So I'm getting that I should try Tubin's 2nd symphony... I'll try to remember that.

Oh, absolutely! One of the most epic, atmospheric, and unique symphonies known to me.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: krummholz on May 13, 2022, 11:22:12 AM
I need to revisit No. 3 - it’s m been a few years since I’ve listened to it. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever listened to No. 9, but it seems to be most people’s least favorite, so I guess I’m not missing out on much. ;)

The 9th is unusual, a two-movement work in which the two movements have little contrast between them, despite a fugato in (I think) the second movement. It is suffused with with restrained melancholy. I don't dislike it, in fact I feel like I should have placed it higher up in my ranking... well, except for the others. ;)

I believe it is coupled with the 4th in the Jarvi set on BIS.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 13, 2022, 01:18:40 PM
Hah! ;D Well, just ignore the comments and proceed with Shostakovich, Schnittke and Hindemith. :) You know the Tubin symphonies, but there is so much music which awaits your discovery!

P.S. You should check out Isang Yun's music and I'm not just saying this because he's my current avatar. ;) I think there's a lyricism in his music that you'll connect with.

I wish I could! Tubin is calling... ignoring the inner voice would feel like unfinished business...

A few days won't do any harm 🙄😬

Yes, I've been watching your posts with interest. On the list, thank you 😊
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on May 13, 2022, 04:36:52 PM
Let's see - mine would be:

2,4,3,5,1,10,6,8,7,9 - not that unlike yours Cesar.

I need to revisit No. 3 - it’s been a few years since I’ve listened to it. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever listened to No. 9, but it seems to be most people’s least favorite, so I guess I’m not missing out on much. ;)

Nos. 8 and 9 are the ones I'm familiar with the least, which doesn't mean they're bad works. Tubin's cycle is one of those where I enjoy or like each symphony.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 14, 2022, 01:20:33 AM
Lovely morning with Tubin so far. Busy day ahead with garden stuff, FA Cup Final and out this evening, so a great start.

Heard the Volmer #1 before starting on the Jarvi, which only really confirmed my preference for the latter. I will probably revisit both cycles to enjoy the difference 🙂

Initial order following the first five.... 4, 3, 5, 2, 1. For now.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 14, 2022, 06:32:10 AM
Lovely morning with Tubin so far. Busy day ahead with garden stuff, FA Cup Final and out this evening, so a great start.

Heard the Volmer #1 before starting on the Jarvi, which only really confirmed my preference for the latter. I will probably revisit both cycles to enjoy the difference 🙂

Initial order following the first five.... 4, 3, 5, 2, 1. For now.

OT
How could you not watch the Eurovision Song Contest Danny?!!! :o

I've had to carefully negotiate watching the FA Cup Final this afternoon ('CAN'T YOU COME WITH ME TO THE GARDEN CENTRE?') As A Chelsea supporter I'm not spending the afternoon in (yet another) garden centre.
 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 15, 2022, 09:00:05 AM

OT
How could you not watch the Eurovision Song Contest Danny?!!! :o

I've had to carefully negotiate watching the FA Cup Final this afternoon ('CAN'T YOU COME WITH ME TO THE GARDEN CENTRE?') As A Chelsea supporter I'm not spending the afternoon in (yet another) garden centre.
 8)

Thankfully, my wife dislikes Eurovision even more than I do. We didn't realise it was on! As for the final, commiserations on the results 🤨
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 19, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
I am very glad to have spent some time visiting these symphonies again, particularly because I haven't spent much time with the Volmer cycle. I'm not ready to move on to listen to something else just yet, but my current order of preference is probably...

4, 3, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 2, 10, 1

There isn't a symphony here that I either dislike or towards which I feel ambivalent. All excellent, and unsurprisingly Tubin remains one of my favourite composers.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2022, 10:23:07 PM
Thankfully, my wife dislikes Eurovision even more than I do. We didn't realise it was on! As for the final, commiserations on the results 🤨
OT
Thank you! As soon as Chelsea came out wearing yellow (rather than blue) I knew they would lose.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: relm1 on May 20, 2022, 05:13:35 AM
I've been listening to the Tubin/Jarvi box set and really enjoying it.  Very fine works, melodic and vigorous.  So far I've listened to 3, 8, 4, 9.  I think my favorite so far is 4 but they're all very fine.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2022, 05:16:52 AM
I guess I'm the only one who truly loves the 1st symphony. I've said it before, but I think the first movement alone is a miniature masterpiece. I don't have a number of preference as I don't really feel I know the symphonies well enough to give such a list. I do know the 1st and 4th made a huge impression on me, but I recall great things about the 2nd and 7th as well.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2022, 05:57:28 AM
I guess I'm the only one who truly loves the 1st symphony. I've said it before, but I think the first movement alone is a miniature masterpiece. I don't have a number of preference as I don't really feel I know the symphonies well enough to give such a list. I do know the 1st and 4th made a huge impression on me, but I recall great things about the 2nd and 7th as well.
No you're not John  ;D. No.1 is one of my favourites - it reminds me of Kaljo Raid's later 1st Symphony, which I also think very highly of.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 20, 2022, 09:38:27 AM
I guess I'm the only one who truly loves the 1st symphony. I've said it before, but I think the first movement alone is a miniature masterpiece. I don't have a number of preference as I don't really feel I know the symphonies well enough to give such a list. I do know the 1st and 4th made a huge impression on me, but I recall great things about the 2nd and 7th as well.

Noooo. I also love #1. Tubin is one of only a few symphonists whose works I enjoy in their entirety. #1 may not be toward the top of Tubin for me, but I would put it ahead of lots of other symphonies I enjoy by lots of other composers.

Now listening to the full Kratt on Alba 😁
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on May 20, 2022, 12:51:56 PM
Kratt contains some of the best music Tubin ever wrote IMO. The ballet is not too long either, something that 'helps' the listener. Good listening!
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2022, 05:57:29 PM
No you're not John  ;D. No.1 is one of my favourites - it reminds me of Kaljo Raid's later 1st Symphony, which I also think very highly of.

Noooo. I also love #1. Tubin is one of only a few symphonists whose works I enjoy in their entirety. #1 may not be toward the top of Tubin for me, but I would put it ahead of lots of other symphonies I enjoy by lots of other composers.

Now listening to the full Kratt on Alba 😁

Great to read, fellas. 8)
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 20, 2022, 06:11:58 PM
Kratt contains some of the best music Tubin ever wrote IMO. The ballet is not too long either, something that 'helps' the listener. Good listening!

Thank you, my friend 🙂  Until the Alva release, I had only heard the ballet suite conducted by Jarvi, but the full score is top quality.
Title: Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2022, 06:24:12 PM
Thank you, my friend 🙂  Until the Alva release, I had only heard the ballet suite conducted by Jarvi, but the full score is top quality.

It certainly is and a real milestone in Estonian music too since I believe it was the first major ballet written by a composer from this country.