GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Dundonnell on September 16, 2008, 12:42:13 PM

Title: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 16, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
Reading through Lethe's tremendously useful list of composers who have had a thread devoted to their life and work I was struck by the omission of both Roussel and Rimsky-Korsakov. These two composers have at least one thing in common, of course. They both served for a time in their country's respective navies. Rimsky-Korsakov attained a far higher rank than Roussel(a mere junior officer) when he was appointed Inspector of Naval Bands in the Imperial Russian Navy.

Well, Albert Roussel now has his own thread-although not many have contributed to it as yet :( As far as Rimsky-Korsakov is concerned, his music has been mentioned repeatedly on this site but I thought that he definitely merits a thread of his own :)

R-K's contribution to Russian music is absolutely immense! He was, without doubt, one of the towering figures on the Russian musical scene in the last few decades of the 19th century and after the death of the Tchaikovsky had probably overtaken Balakirev as the doyen of Russian music. His influence on a whole generation of Russian composers-Rachmaninov, Glazunov, Stravinsky, Prokofiev and so many others-was profound. He was a great and hugely popular teacher and a man of tremendous integrity, resigning in protest from his post at the St.Petersburg Conservatory at the expulsion of students who had been involved in the 1905 Revolution in Russia.

R-K was a quite superb orchestrator. Obviously 'Scheherazade' is(or at least was?) a staple of the orchestral repertoire and I am still bedazzled by the opulence of that work's orchestration but I also thrill to the magnificence of the Russian Easter Festival Overture and bask in the lyrical grandeur of the symphonic suites from Operas like "The Golden Cockerel", "The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh", "The Maid of Pskov" and so many other colourful scores.

I am confident that there must be many others here who share my affection for a man who though encouraged by Balakirev was in many ways self-taught.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Guido on September 16, 2008, 12:52:22 PM
He is also meant to have experimented with the octatonic scale alot but I have never been able to track down which works specifically he did this in. Any tips?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: The new erato on September 16, 2008, 12:52:43 PM
I have "The Tsars Bride" lying in my inpile to play (a new and as yet unplayed aquisition), but have in general only a superficial knowledge of his works, maimly limited to Scheherazade and the usual list of overtures and suites. So further input in this thread will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 16, 2008, 12:58:10 PM
He is also meant to have experimented with the octatonic scale alot but I have never been able to track down which works specifically he did this in. Any tips?

Rimsky used the scale extensively in his 1902 Opera "Kashchey the Immortal"(so I understand!).
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: scarpia on September 16, 2008, 12:59:57 PM
I had found Rimsky-Korsakov to be less than fascinating, beyond the few well known orchestral pieces like "Scheherazade."  That changed when I became familiar with his opera, which are full of wit and color.  This production is wonderful, though sadly nla in the US.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TC372B73L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 16, 2008, 01:09:30 PM
I had found Rimsky-Korsakov to be less than fascinating, beyond the few well known orchestral pieces like "Scheherazade."  That changed when I became familiar with his opera, which are full of wit and color.  This production is wonderful, though sadly nla in the US.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TC372B73L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

"wit and color"...yes indeed :) Rimsky's operas are full of both and sometimes we might forget just how witty he can be!
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: DFO on September 16, 2008, 02:31:00 PM
Forget for a moment his symphonics, and listen to his magnificent piano trio and the lovely
string sextet and piano and winds quintet.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: The new erato on September 16, 2008, 08:35:16 PM
Forget for a moment his symphonics, and listen to his magnificent piano trio and the lovely
string sextet and piano and winds quintet.
That sounds interesting in case you could recommend currently available recordings?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: DFO on September 17, 2008, 02:34:11 AM
On the trio, I've the Moscow Trio on a german Chant du Monde,plus Borodin piano trio
Have also an old recording by the Oistrakh's trio, but difficult to find.
String sextet,I´ve on LP by the Ensemble Classique Köln.I think it's on CD
Piano and winds quintet by Eva Knardahl and Gothenburg wind quintet,plus
Berwald and LvB on a BIS CD
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: The new erato on September 17, 2008, 07:26:40 AM
Thank you! Duly noted.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Bulldog on September 17, 2008, 07:33:30 AM
I have the Sextet and Quintet on a Praga disc - excellent performances.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on September 17, 2008, 12:10:46 PM
My first ever classical LP was Scheherezade (Reiner) and RK was my first love in classical music. I was about 14. Still like the music, especially Sadko, Russian Easter Festival Overture, Christmas Eve and the Invisible City of Kitezh.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: jwinter on September 18, 2008, 09:55:20 AM
Count me among the R-K fans.  For me, listening to Scheherezade is the sonic equivalent of sneaking and relishing a Hershey bar on a bad day, indulgent and a little decadent without being downright unwholesome, and yummy as hell.  It's one of those pieces where you can get swept away by the sheer beauty of the thing, the gorgeousness of the orchestration.  It's both soothing and cathartic at the same time, if that makes any sense.

I also enjoy the other R-K that I've heard, although alas that's not too much beyond some overtures.  I have the Brilliant Classics set of the symphonies and other orchestral works, but I haven't really touched the chamber works or the operas (other than the overtures).  May need to remedy that soon...
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on September 19, 2008, 06:42:41 AM
I'd recommend his Christmas Eve Suite; a really lovely, magical work.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 19, 2008, 10:50:44 AM
If you are interested in another aspect of Rimsky's composition you could try this CD which contains four rousing secular cantatas including the splendid vigorous  "The Song of Oleg the Wise" together with "The Song of Alexis, Man of God", "The Girl in the Lake" and "From Homer".
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: greg on September 19, 2008, 04:12:58 PM
He is also meant to have experimented with the octatonic scale alot but I have never been able to track down which works specifically he did this in. Any tips?
Yeah, anything by Shostakovich.  ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: flyingdutchman on September 19, 2008, 08:24:12 PM
If you are interested in another aspect of Rimsky's composition you could try this CD which contains four rousing secular cantatas including the splendid vigorous  "The Song of Oleg the Wise" together with "The Song of Alexis, Man of God", "The Girl in the Lake" and "From Homer".

Ya, but where is it readily available?  An Amazon marketplace seller for $40?  Good grief.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: drogulus on November 15, 2008, 08:02:29 AM


       I can recommend the symphonic suite Antar, composed in 1868 and revised many times over the years. Give the early date you can hear many ways R-K might have influenced the course of Russian music.

     (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/aug00/rimskyVanguard.jpg)

     
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Superhorn on November 15, 2008, 12:21:28 PM
   Other Rimsky works I enjoy are the operas Sadko, The Legend of the Invisible City Of Kitezh, The Maid of Pskov, which I have with Gergiev conducting,
May Night, The Snow Maiden, and the 2nd symphony, "Antar", also based on Arabic folklore, and inexplicably neglected at concerts, although Gegiev did with the New York Philharmonic several years ago.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on November 16, 2008, 01:14:58 AM
If you like 'Antar', you might also enjoy Miaskovsky's Symphony 21 as there is a thematic link between them.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: jowcol on November 21, 2008, 05:35:46 PM
I just want to add myself to the list of fans of "Antar".  While Scheharezade is still a masterwork, I find Antar much more moving and introspective, and a lot of times it demonstrates that "less is more".

I'm also a fan of the Russian Easter Overture.

Also interesting about R-K was that when he and Scriabin talked about seeing different colors to different keys, there was one key (A flat major?) that R-K said that he couldn't "see".
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 21, 2008, 06:19:14 PM
Agree about the Russian Easter Festival Overture :)

It is a pity that the Overture as a musical form seems to have fallen by the wayside :( All concerts used to begin with a rousing Overture and R-K's is as rousing as any ;D The Berlioz Overtures as well, come to mind, as cracking starts to a concert ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: drogulus on November 21, 2008, 07:43:29 PM
I just want to add myself to the list of fans of "Antar".  While Scheharezade is still a masterwork, I find Antar much more moving and introspective, and a lot of times it demonstrates that "less is more".

I'm also a fan of the Russian Easter Overture.

Also interesting about R-K was that when he and Scriabin talked about seeing different colors to different keys, there was one key (A flat major?) that R-K said that he couldn't "see".

    It's interesting that you mentioned Scriabin because I thought of his 3rd Symphony, which like Antar has a theme that appears in all the movements.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maciek on November 22, 2008, 04:01:50 AM
If you are interested in another aspect of Rimsky's composition you could try this CD which contains four rousing secular cantatas including the splendid vigorous  "The Song of Oleg the Wise" together with "The Song of Alexis, Man of God", "The Girl in the Lake" and "From Homer".

Colin, is The Girl in the Lake a Mickiewicz setting? I know that R-K wrote a cantata to the words of Świtezianka but haven't been able to discover its exact title. I'd very much like to hear that piece......
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maciek on November 24, 2008, 07:44:37 AM
Hm...
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 24, 2008, 07:54:00 AM
Colin, is The Girl in the Lake a Mickiewicz setting? I know that R-K wrote a cantata to the words of Świtezianka but haven't been able to discover its exact title. I'd very much like to hear that piece......

Sorry, Maciek, I completely missed your question :( I apologise!

Yes...the cd notes say that "In 1897, just after finishing his opera 'Sadko', he(R-K) returned to Lev Mey's poem after Mickiewicz Switezianka(The Girl in the Lake), whose first lines he had already set in 1862 in a song of the same title(op. 7 no.3)-the song's main theme, incidentally, recurs in the cantata."

I shall upload the Cantata later for you, sir ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maciek on November 24, 2008, 08:07:19 AM
Aha! It turns out to be more complicated than I expected. I thought it was a straightforward Mickiewicz setting (gleaned the information from a fuzzy encyclopedic entry about various kinds of Slavonic rusalkas) but now I see it's not even a translation but an adaptation. Still, this would be very interesting to hear... I'll PM you about it. ;)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 24, 2008, 10:54:05 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?tvzgqoyzymy

Cantata "The Girl in the Lake" Elena Mitrakova(soprano), Dmitri Kortchak(tenor), Moscow Academy of Song Chorus and the Moscow Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Ziva.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maciek on November 24, 2008, 12:03:04 PM
Thank you!!!!! :D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Brahmsian on July 03, 2010, 02:55:06 PM
Scheherezade & Russian Easter Festival Overture are both works that I heard live in concert last year.  Although I had heard Scheherezade before the concert, the live performance of the Russian Easter Festival Overture was my first exposure to the work, and I was immensely impressed.  It was outstanding as a concert opener!  :)

Has anyone heard the Fantasy on Russian Themes for violin & orchestra, Op.33?  It is fantastic!!  If you love Russian music, you'll LOVE this piece.  I just listened to this recording of it, featuring Lydia Mordkovitch on the violin:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B001FENY7Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maciek on April 11, 2011, 12:12:46 PM
Wasn't aware of that piece. Thanks for putting it on my radar.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: eyeresist on April 11, 2011, 04:38:17 PM
I have that CD, and for my money the Rimsky piece is the highlight (sorry, Taneyev!).

I've sampled Jarvi, Svetlanov and Kitajenko in the symphonies, and find the last most satisfactory overall. Kitajenko is certainly best in the 1st.

Are there any handy sets of the chamber music anyone can recommend?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Brahmsian on April 13, 2011, 06:46:01 AM
I have that CD, and for my money the Rimsky piece is the highlight (sorry, Taneyev!).


In this case, I agree with you!  Although I have enjoyed both works, the highlight and the gem of this disc is the Rimsky-Korsakov piece (sorry Tsar Taneyev!)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: madaboutmahler on March 24, 2013, 03:40:14 PM
Only two pages for Rimsky Korsakov?  :o

Obviously I absolutely adore Scheherezade (one of my favourite pieces ever!), Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Festival Overture etc, and have done for years. However, today was the first time I listened to another of his works: the 2nd symphony. Absolutely loved it!! Absolutely brilliant work, I'll be listening to a lot more Rimsky Korsakov I'm sure.

I was looking for possible recoridngs on amazon, and was excited to come across this Svetlanov 5cd set of many of Rimsky's orchestral works for just £4!!!! It was a no-brainer! I'm sure I'll either get the Jarvi or Kitajenko's set of the symphonies in the future as well. Anyway, here's the Svetlanov that I'm sure many of you won't pass the oppurtunity to get at such a give-away price!!



Would be nice to get this thread moving! :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on March 24, 2013, 04:45:33 PM
Obviously I absolutely adore Scheherezade (one of my favourite pieces ever!), Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Festival Overture etc,

*pounds the table*

Yes, I'm going on a bit of a Rimsky-Korsakov sojourn, me self.  Many first listens (including the symphonies).

Even though it isn't Russian Easter time yet, it is in Canada.  Starting Monday, I am listening to the Russian Easter Overture every day for the week!!  ;D 
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 24, 2013, 05:35:35 PM
Only two pages for Rimsky Korsakov?  :o

Obviously I absolutely adore Scheherezade (one of my favourite pieces ever!), Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Festival Overture etc, and have done for years. However, today was the first time I listened to another of his works: the 2nd symphony. Absolutely loved it!! Absolutely brilliant work, I'll be listening to a lot more Rimsky Korsakov I'm sure.

I was looking for possible recoridngs on amazon, and was excited to come across this Svetlanov 5cd set of many of Rimsky's orchestral works for just £4!!!! It was a no-brainer! I'm sure I'll either get the Jarvi or Kitajenko's set of the symphonies in the future as well. Anyway, here's the Svetlanov that I'm sure many of you won't pass the oppurtunity to get at such a give-away price!!



Would be nice to get this thread moving! :)

The Svetlanov and Jarvi sets are excellent. I've heard not so good things about Kitajenko's performances so I would pass on those. Then there's Bakels, but, still, Svetlanov and Jarvi are to be preferred here IMHO.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on March 25, 2013, 04:23:18 AM
Rimsky-Korsakov

Scheherazade, Op. 35


Sir Thomas Beecham
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

EMI Classics

*I love this work, and this particular recording.  I don't think I own any other Beecham recordings, although I've heard some middle Schubert symphonies under his baton.  Anyways, this is a beautiful performance.

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: MishaK on March 25, 2013, 05:57:57 AM
This is getting a lot of praise. Has anyone heard it yet?

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: madaboutmahler on March 25, 2013, 10:23:28 AM
*pounds the table*

Yes, I'm going on a bit of a Rimsky-Korsakov sojourn, me self.  Many first listens (including the symphonies).

Even though it isn't Russian Easter time yet, it is in Canada.  Starting Monday, I am listening to the Russian Easter Overture every day for the week!!  ;D
:D I'll be listening to that work plenty too!!

I really ought to own that Scheherezade recording with Beecham. I only own 2 recordings of one of my favourite works of all time!! :o (Ozawa and Batiz). Svetlanov when it arrives. There are plenty I'd like to get... :)

The Svetlanov and Jarvi sets are excellent. I've heard not so good things about Kitajenko's performances so I would pass on those. Then there's Bakels, but, still, Svetlanov and Jarvi are to be preferred here IMHO.

Thank you for the feedback, John. Are you a Rimsky fan yourself? :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Daverz on March 26, 2013, 09:37:13 AM
Rimsky-Korsakov

Scheherazade, Op. 35


Sir Thomas Beecham
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

EMI Classics

*I love this work, and this particular recording.  I don't think I own any other Beecham recordings, although I've heard some middle Schubert symphonies under his baton.  Anyways, this is a beautiful performance.



If you like this, you'll almost certainly like his Balakirev. 

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 09:39:06 AM

Thank you for the feedback, John. Are you a Rimsky fan yourself? :)

Am I a Rimsky fan? You're joking right? Of course, I'm a fan! Whether you pick Jarvi or Svetlanov, you won't be disappointed.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: madaboutmahler on March 26, 2013, 10:44:34 AM
Great, John! Which are your favourites of his?
I got the Svetlanov a few days in a hurry once I found it as it was at a ridiculously low price. £4 for 5 cds!!

I'll probably get the Jarvi at some point soon too. :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 10:51:21 AM
Great, John! Which are your favourites of his?
I got the Svetlanov a few days in a hurry once I found it as it was at a ridiculously low price. £4 for 5 cds!!

I'll probably get the Jarvi at some point soon too. :)

Of course, Scheherazade is a favorite. My favorite symphony is his 3rd. I like the symphonic poem Sadko and the Piano Concerto. Both of these are rarely heard works. But I also enjoy most of all the typical Rimsky showpieces: Russian Festival Overture, Capriccio Espagnol, the opera orchestral suites, etc.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: madaboutmahler on March 26, 2013, 10:57:32 AM
Nice, John! All such brilliant works!! Scheherezade has been a favourite for as long as I can remember, playing it in youth orchestra last year maximixed that even further! Masterpiece :)

The 2nd symphony listening a few days ago was when I first ventured out of his more popular works, and I loved it. Looking forward to more when I get the Svetlanov box! :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 26, 2013, 04:18:48 PM
Only two pages for Rimsky Korsakov?  :o

Obviously I absolutely adore Scheherezade (one of my favourite pieces ever!), Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Festival Overture etc, and have done for years. However, today was the first time I listened to another of his works: the 2nd symphony. Absolutely loved it!! Absolutely brilliant work, I'll be listening to a lot more Rimsky Korsakov I'm sure.

I was looking for possible recoridngs on amazon, and was excited to come across this Svetlanov 5cd set of many of Rimsky's orchestral works for just £4!!!! It was a no-brainer! I'm sure I'll either get the Jarvi or Kitajenko's set of the symphonies in the future as well. Anyway, here's the Svetlanov that I'm sure many of you won't pass the oppurtunity to get at such a give-away price!!



Would be nice to get this thread moving! :)
I started with the Jarvi and never really felt they did the works justice. I wanted more. Harry had suggested Bakels. I must admit I had some skepticism due to the orchestra, but I find them quite good. I'd guess that Svetlanov is good in this, but you may want to try and give the Jarvi a test-drive somehow before buying them.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Brian on March 26, 2013, 04:49:21 PM
I started with the Jarvi and never really felt they did the works justice.

That's Jarvi, though; it's ingrained in his podium personality. He learns music, records it with technical proficiency, and moves on, but only rarely does he seem to really believe in the music. I find almost all his forays into little-known repertoire to be like the generic, plain-wrapped version of a brand-name product.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 27, 2013, 07:21:49 AM
That's Jarvi, though; it's ingrained in his podium personality. He learns music, records it with technical proficiency, and moves on, but only rarely does he seem to really believe in the music. I find almost all his forays into little-known repertoire to be like the generic, plain-wrapped version of a brand-name product.
I wouldn't go that far myself. I like (at least some of) his Grieg, Gade, Halvorssen, Khachaturian, Schmidt, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, and Steinberg (and probably there is more). So I am not inclined to dislike him. I just feel that here he misses the mark and doesn't make the music (Rimsky-K) as exciting or as soulful as some other versions out there. I forget the details at this point, so perhaps I will need to refresh my listening to be more specific as to why.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Elgarian on March 27, 2013, 09:23:14 AM
Only two pages for Rimsky Korsakov?
Would be nice to get this thread moving!

There's more than you might think, but not in this thread. We had a major blitz on Scheherazade just over a year ago, with lots of different recordings discussed (including Beecham, Dutoit, Svetlanov, etc) starting here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4892.msg600643.html#msg600643 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4892.msg600643.html#msg600643)

I wonder if it'd be worth asking for that 'recordings' thread to be added to this one?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Lisztianwagner on March 27, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
Nikolai Rimsky-Kosakov was the first Russian composer I've discovered, along with Tchaikovsky, and he is certainly one of my favourites; works like Scheherazade, Capriccio Espagnol, the Russian Easter Festival Overtures, the Symphony 'Antar' and the Piano Concerto are absolutely wonderful.
One of the aspects of Rimsky-Korsakov's compositions that impresses me more is their brilliant, marvelous orchestration, it features very colourful timbres, a daring harmony and it beautifully uses all the expressive possibilities of the instruments, especially in the string and in the woodwind section, to evoke particular atmospheres and suggestive images. I also like the great elegance, the intensity and the exotic, melodious themes expressed in his music very much.
Among my other favourites Rimsky-Korsakov's piece there are also the 1st and the 3rd Symphony, the Flight of the Bumblebee and the Fantasia on Russian Themes.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: The new erato on March 27, 2013, 11:22:33 AM
But his best work is in the operas. Kitezh is one of the best romantic operas ever, and Sadko isn't far behind.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mszczuj on March 27, 2013, 11:26:12 AM
But his best work is in the operas.

I have just wanted to write that he was above all the opera composer.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Florestan on March 27, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
But his best work is in the operas. Kitezh is one of the best romantic operas ever, and Sadko isn't far behind.

Don't forget May Night.  8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Lisztianwagner on March 27, 2013, 12:13:10 PM
But his best work is in the operas. Kitezh is one of the best romantic operas ever, and Sadko isn't far behind.

I'm sorry I haven't listened to his operas yet; I'll make sure to listen to Kitezh, May Night or Sadko at some point.

Any recommendations about the recordings?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Florestan on March 27, 2013, 12:39:05 PM
Any recommendations about the recordings?

(http://ecards.brilliantclassics.nl/operacollection/img/large/94036.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: North Star on March 27, 2013, 12:41:10 PM
How is this set?

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 27, 2013, 01:04:18 PM
How is this set?


Very good. I would have picked it up myself if I didn't already own most of it! :)

Just keep in mind that it is not perfect. For example, there is a lot of stage noise on Sadko, but the playing is top notch. I also don't like every singer, but overall, they are pretty good.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: The new erato on March 27, 2013, 01:16:03 PM
Very good. I would have picked it up myself if I didn't already own most of it! :)

Just keep in mind that it is not perfect. For example, there is a lot of stage noise on Sadko, but the playing is top notch. I also don't like every singer, but overall, they are pretty good.
More or less my impression too. Variable, but mainly good or better, and there's not much competition in modern sound for much of it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on March 27, 2013, 03:19:16 PM
But his best work is in the operas. Kitezh is one of the best romantic operas ever, and Sadko isn't far behind.

I have lots to look forward to then, Erato!  I have the Brilliant Classics 25 CD Rimsky-Korsakov edition.  It includes the following operas (not all of them):

*May Night
*The Snow Maiden
*Mozart and Salieri
*The Noblewoman Vera Sheloga
*The Tsar's Bride
*The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh
*The Golden Cockerel


I just recently heard the Kitezh Suite for the first time and it was flat out amazing!!

Which one to listen to first?  Hmm?  :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Hattoff on March 28, 2013, 12:11:37 AM
All Rimsky's operas are brilliant but his most inventive is the opera-ballet Mlada; full of unusual ideas and themes and probably his most modern sounding piece.
His songs are all top class too.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on March 28, 2013, 03:50:45 AM

*The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh


I just recently heard the Kitezh Suite for the first time and it was flat out amazing!!

Which one to listen to first?  Hmm?  :)

Dude!  Right there is your answer!

I have this set for Kitezh:

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Lisztianwagner on March 28, 2013, 04:42:22 AM
(http://ecards.brilliantclassics.nl/operacollection/img/large/94036.jpg)

Thank you for the suggestion, Andrei.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on March 28, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
Dude!  Right there is your answer!

I have this set for Kitezh:



Done!  It will be on tonight's platter!

Different performance.  From the Brilliant Classics CD box:

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on September 20, 2013, 10:16:26 AM
Inspired by the opera thread, I've been wanting to investigate Rimsky's operas. I'm considering this set; what do members think of it?



Included are The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, Kashchey the Immortal, the Maid of Pskov, Sadko and The Tsar's Bride.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Brewski on September 20, 2013, 10:51:07 AM
Inspired by the opera thread, I've been wanting to investigate Rimsky's operas. I'm considering this set; what do members think of it?



Included are The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, Kashchey the Immortal, the Maid of Pskov, Sadko and The Tsar's Bride.

I have heard most of these individually, and don't think you would be disappointed acquiring it. Here and there, some of the singers could be stronger, but overall Gergiev (and his terrific orchestra) give performances that will likely remain as top recommendations for some time.

And of course, it doesn't hurt that he is virtually unchallenged in some of these - there just *aren't* other recordings available (or at least, good ones).

--Bruce
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on September 20, 2013, 11:56:05 AM
I have heard most of these individually, and don't think you would be disappointed acquiring it. Here and there, some of the singers could be stronger, but overall Gergiev (and his terrific orchestra) give performances that will likely remain as top recommendations for some time.

And of course, it doesn't hurt that he is virtually unchallenged in some of these - there just *aren't* other recordings available (or at least, good ones).

--Bruce

Thanks, Bruce! :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Moonfish on May 31, 2014, 06:11:00 PM
There is a really interesting article about "The Tsar's Bride" in this month's Listen Magazine!

http://www.listenmusicmag.com/masterwork/from-darkness-a-colorful-tapestry.php (http://www.listenmusicmag.com/masterwork/from-darkness-a-colorful-tapestry.php)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: snyprrr on June 18, 2014, 05:46:21 AM
I'd recommend his Christmas Eve Suite; a really lovely, magical work.

Is That Your Final Answer?

As with all these other Russian Composers, I'm being forced back in time to reclaim some lost artifact. What is my quest here with Rimsky? I know there's just too much, and I do seem to recall the looong stretches of nap time (maybe I just wasn't 'there' yet?) that came with NRK research.

I need "magical", or the most 'starry night' without a lot of the BigBoomBoom,... is there some Debussy in there somewhere,haha??

I seriously doubt I will be hearing any opera singing here, but some orchestral suites- if there's any of that "magic" crack in there. Did I mention I need the "magic"? haha :laugh:

I'll look at the Discography and get back here soon.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2014, 09:48:58 AM
Symphony No. 2 'Antar' is quite a magical work. Its theme is picked up in Miaskovsky's 21st Symphony, with which it once shared a fine RCA LP, with Morton Gould conducting. Sadly never on CD.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: relm1 on December 25, 2014, 07:17:45 AM
Is it just me or does Rimsky-Korsakov seem unfairly neglected in the opera world?  I am interested in hearing Tsar Sultan opera but in searching Amazon, Arkiv, etc., there is only one recording available from 1959 of the opera.   Few (maybe one) modern recordings of the Golden Cockerel and its from the 1980's live performance and that is a gorgeous opera.  Why the neglect in this major operatic composer who formed such a major bridge between 19th century Russian nationalism of "The Five" then mysticism/faery tale then the 20th century modernist movement?  It seems like he should be better represented.  All his works I've heard have been very intriguing and inventive.  Is this neglect because he was overshadowed by his contemporaries? 
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on December 25, 2014, 07:21:46 AM
Is it just me or does Rimsky-Korsakov seem unfairly neglected in the opera world?  I am interested in hearing Tsar Sultan opera but in searching Amazon, Arkiv, etc., there is only one recording available from 1959 of the opera.   Few (maybe one) modern recordings of the Golden Cockerel?  Which is a gorgeous opera.  Why the neglect in this major operatic composer?

You don't know about the Gergiev set, eh?

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: relm1 on December 25, 2014, 07:24:23 AM
You don't know about the Gergiev set, eh?



I know about it and it doesn't include the operas I described.  They were not recorded in the Gergiev series hence my point is the omission of many major operas from any availability. 
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on December 25, 2014, 07:37:20 AM
I know about it and it doesn't include the operas I described.  They were not recorded in the Gergiev series hence my point is the omission of many major operas from any availability.

Ah, okay. I didn't even look at what operas were in this set. Oh well...I'm in no dire need to hear Rimsky-Korsakov's operas.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kishnevi on December 25, 2014, 08:10:46 AM
There are two DVDs of Coq d'Or
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/810Lnl%2B5bGL._SY679_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J7vDnrfjL.jpg)
The first one seems to be a traditional Soviet production with traditional Soviet low budget cinematography.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on December 26, 2014, 08:55:51 AM
Well, I would say Rimsky-Korsakov is a decent composer. :P Scheherazade and golden cockerel are certainly sublime works.
Title: The unfinished Trio for Violin, Cello & Piano in C minor .....
Post by: Scion7 on July 24, 2015, 01:47:30 AM
Although it had to be completed by his son in law (Steinberg), and R-K himself decided that chamber music was not his thing in his memoirs, and even though it 'borrows' a bit from Beethoven and Schumann  :P , this is a good, if not a great, piece.  The melody of the first movement is very nice.  It's too bad there were not some "trio" friends around that summer of 1897 to play the manuscript (like a Clara and Joachim to Brahms) to give him advice and encouragement on his abilities in the field.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 24, 2015, 04:32:27 AM
Is it just me or does Rimsky-Korsakov seem unfairly neglected in the opera world?  I am interested in hearing Tsar Sultan opera but in searching Amazon, Arkiv, etc., there is only one recording available from 1959 of the opera.   Few (maybe one) modern recordings of the Golden Cockerel and its from the 1980's live performance and that is a gorgeous opera.  Why the neglect in this major operatic composer who formed such a major bridge between 19th century Russian nationalism of "The Five" then mysticism/faery tale then the 20th century modernist movement?  It seems like he should be better represented.  All his works I've heard have been very intriguing and inventive.  Is this neglect because he was overshadowed by his contemporaries?
I finally bought the Melodiya cd set of The Tale of Tsar Saltan  a couple of months ago. It is an ancient recording,but unless you are allergic to mono,it is very good for it's era and I really do wonder whether you will get a new performances as good as that one. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it,and hearing the famous orchestral suite in it's original context. A very nice looking jewel case too;although I prefer the usual kind. The absence of an english translation of the libretto might bother some people,but the music was so delightful and tuneful it didn't spoil my enjoyment,one bit. (That said!!!) Mind you,it is rather strange that such a lovely opera has had so few recordings;and a new one,preferably from Russia,would be very desirable indeed! It really is a very beautiful and enjoyable opera,and imo,it doesn't deserve it's neglect,at all!

There appears to be a translation,here:

http://aquarius-classic.ru/album?aid=188&tid=7&ver=eng
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on July 24, 2015, 04:55:54 AM
I finally bought the Melodiya cd set of The Tale of Tsar Saltan  a couple of months ago. It is an ancient recording,but unless you are allergic to mono,it is very good for it's era and I really do wonder whether you will get a new performances as good as that one. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it,and hearing the famous orchestral suite in it's original context. A very nice looking jewel case too;although I prefer the usual kind. The absence of an english translation of the libretto might bother some people,but the music was so delightful and tuneful it didn't spoil my enjoyment,one bit. (That said!!!) Mind you,it is rather strange that such a lovely opera has had so few recordings;and a new one,preferably from Russia,would be very desirable indeed! It really is a very beautiful and enjoyable opera,and imo,it doesn't deserve it's neglect,at all!

There appears to be a translation,here:

http://aquarius-classic.ru/album?aid=188&tid=7&ver=eng
Looks like a very interesting release so thanks for this. Rimsky K was my way into classical music. I listened, with much pleasure to the "May Night' overture a couple of days ago. His son in law Steinberg's Second Symphony is another work I greatly admire, with its wonderfully redemptive ending.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Spineur on May 15, 2016, 09:07:13 PM
There are two DVDs of Coq d'Or
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J7vDnrfjL.jpg)
I watch the blu-ray version of this production.  Its strength are
1° The staging of Ennosuke Ichikawa a renown figure of the Kabuki theater, used in Japan for Popular epic stories.  A single an minimalist scene (here a staircase), and the very expressive hieractic motion of the actors which suit this fantastic opera all in symbolism.
2° The chorus of the Marinsky theater which was part of this french production.  It is essential for act one and three which are dominated by the orchestra & chorus while Act 2 is mostly devoted to singer performance.  There is a very nice ballet in act 2.
I found the adaptation of Pouchkine novel by Vladimir I. Bielsky lacked subtelty, when compared to other symbolic operas.
In this Blu-Ray, the sound is satisfactory but not great.  Overall, I am pleased by this acquisition and I spent a nice sunday evening with it.
 

 

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov [1844-1908]
Post by: Scion7 on June 25, 2016, 02:41:01 PM
(http://s33.postimg.org/4ob67vzcf/LP_Scheherazade_LSO_Tjeknavorian.jpg)

I like this cover.
It should be the envy of Eeeeeeng-vay.   :P

But a Greek hoplite warrior on the cover?   ???
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov [1844-1908]
Post by: Gurn Blanston on June 25, 2016, 03:47:32 PM
(http://s33.postimg.org/4ob67vzcf/LP_Scheherazade_LSO_Tjeknavorian.jpg)

I like this cover.
It should be the envy of Eeeeeeng-vay.   :P

But a Greek Hoplite warrior on the cover?   ???

Wildly inappropriate, but nonetheless cool. I should have thought a Kalender Prince would do nicely...

8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2016, 05:16:24 AM
Looks like the soundtrack to 'Clash of the Titans' - fun though.  :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 27, 2016, 02:03:46 AM
I would have loved sleeve artwork like this when I was a youngster;and a bit disappointed that (as far as I can recall? ???) Rimsky-Korsakov's Suite didn't include  a Ray Harryhausen style fight with a dragon! Oh well,that's what The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad and Jason and the Argonauts are for!! :) I would also have been thrilled by those warning notices about the sonic levels!!!!
That said......does the performance actually measure up to the artwork? Or,perhaps I should say;the original artwork? I know you shouldn't judge a 'record' by it's cover.......!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Scion7 on June 27, 2016, 02:08:33 AM
I've never run across this on YT - not one of the versions I own.  So, can't answer you.  I don't think it took the world by storm, though.  :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 27, 2016, 02:52:09 AM
One to buy for the sleeve,perhaps! I have bought records like that!! :-[ ;D The Mackerras Telarc is one recording I've always been tempted to buy because of the artwork. Although,I think that it might actually be a good or decent recording? Does anyone know it here? The artwork is very alluring. According to one review it is "a lush sumptuous reading that has all the swashbuckling power of an Errol Flynn movie."
I keep meaning to add Maazel's Telarc recording of Antar to my collection,too! It's usually very cheap s/h. I'm a bit of a fan of the score. I have several recordings;but not that one.



Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 29, 2016, 11:12:16 PM
One to buy for the sleeve,perhaps! I have bought records like that!! :-[ ;D The Mackerras Telarc is one recording I've always been tempted to buy because of the artwork. Although,I think that it might actually be a good or decent recording? Does anyone know it here? The artwork is very alluring. According to one review it is "a lush sumptuous reading that has all the swashbuckling power of an Errol Flynn movie."
I keep meaning to add Maazel's Telarc recording of Antar to my collection,too! It's usually very cheap s/h. I'm a bit of a fan of the score. I have several recordings;but not that one.

The Mackerras you speak of is among the best. The playing is outstanding and the sound is demonstration quality. It's one of my favorite discs.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 30, 2016, 02:49:59 AM
Thanks! :) A perfectly logical reason to have that very enticing artwork on my shelf!
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mjmosca on July 04, 2016, 02:49:39 AM
Thank you, Dundonnell for getting this thread underway! I am new to this site, and am a huge fan of Rimsky, and find his music to be a source of endless pleasure. I have the wonderful set of suites from the Operas (Jarvi) which give a hint of the music within- I think that the fantasy nature of several of the operas have worked against them in the West. As for his orchestral music - there is so much beyond the glorious Scheherazade - I would love to hear "Antar" some day in a live concert. Years ago I read his book on orchestration (in translation)- he was certainly one of the greatest orchestrators.

Speaking of Scheherazade, I have about 7 recordings, and am always on the lookout for one that is a real "wallow"in the romantic character of the work! Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Spineur on July 04, 2016, 08:07:12 AM

Speaking of Scheherazade, I have about 7 recordings, and am always on the lookout for one that is a real "wallow"in the romantic character of the work! Any suggestions?
Do you have the version of Ferenc Ficsay ?  He is excellent in this repertoire
A version I cant recommend is this chamber music version by the Zurich ensemble.  Once you remove the Rimsky orchestration, there is hardly anything left !!
 
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 10:43:54 AM
Fricsay is slow and "grand" but the dryish mono sound is probably not the best for "wallowing". I don't care enough about that piece to give recommendations. I tend to prefer "Antar", a piece that is undeservedly far less known. And the suites from the operas are even more entertaining.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on July 04, 2016, 11:54:09 AM
One to buy for the sleeve,perhaps! I have bought records like that!! :-[ ;D The Mackerras Telarc is one recording I've always been tempted to buy because of the artwork. Although,I think that it might actually be a good or decent recording? Does anyone know it here? The artwork is very alluring. According to one review it is "a lush sumptuous reading that has all the swashbuckling power of an Errol Flynn movie."
I keep meaning to add Maazel's Telarc recording of Antar to my collection,too! It's usually very cheap s/h. I'm a bit of a fan of the score. I have several recordings;but not that one.
You referring to this one?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sRJww%2ByQL.jpg)

Yes one of my all time favorite album covers, worth the price alone just for the cover. It truly captures the splendor, the exoticism, the grandeur, and the mystery of the music. Performance is excellent also.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mjmosca on July 05, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
Thank you all for the information- I also love "Antar" and it should certainly be played more often. I have the Maazel recording which is very fine, only complaint is that the recording level is on the low side, but it is beautifully paced and played.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 23, 2017, 06:57:11 AM
You referring to this one?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sRJww%2ByQL.jpg)

Yes one of my all time favorite album covers, worth the price alone just for the cover. It truly captures the splendor, the exoticism, the grandeur, and the mystery of the music. Performance is excellent also.
Yes,I have ogled that one a few times. I really must buy it,one day!! ::) ;D

Just spotted this on the internet. Anyone here ever bagged this one? Was this design only on an Lp.....or was it on a cd release?!! This would have looked very nice indeed next to my record,or cd player!!

(http://i.imgur.com/o1TKgVx.jpg)

I also see that Melodiya have reissued an old Soviet recording of The Golden Cockerel on cd. I might be tempted at some point. I have greatly enjoyed their ancient old recordings of Sadko and The Tale of Tsar Saltan. The latter is a delight (indeed both are!).I find it very difficult to understand why it has been neglected in the recording studio. It really is quite wonderful to listen to;and hearing the well known,and utterly magical and escapist suite,and the famous Bumblebee,in it's original context is fascinating. I suppose the old mono recording is really impossible to better in many ways.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2017, 09:29:57 AM
The Invisible City is a fine work. I had it on an old Vox/Turnabout LP.
Title: Can I Like Rimsky Still?
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2017, 09:36:17 AM
Do you think I'm going to enjoy R-K now that I've assimilated much of 'The Firebird', which seems to have a lot of R-K features? Will he sound hopelessly Romantic to me right now? I guess I can start with the Easter thingy... but I'm not sure I want to here 'Schzd'...

what's the best way to win "snyprrr" over to R-K (meaning, it probably won't be this, or that, but the other thing...)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maestro267 on June 23, 2017, 09:53:20 AM
Just listen to the damn music, for goodness' sake! I've heard The Firebird, and it's amazing. And I've heard Scheherazade, and it's amazing. Seriously, some people put way too many restrictions on their 'appreciation' of music, like you have to do things in a certain order. Just listen to it! No need to overcomplicate things.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 23, 2017, 11:03:53 AM
 ??? ;D That's telling you,snyprrr!
I actually prefer Antar. A big favourite of mine. I've got several recordings of it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 23, 2017, 11:30:33 AM
There are several good recordings of Antar. This one gets less attention than some others,but I like it allot. Abravanel is a favourite conductor of mine,and I like the idea of a story line which begins in the desert being evoked by an orchestra in a desert state! As well as Ippolitov Ivanov's Caucasian Sketches,the cd version of this Lp includes Gliere's Russian Sailor's Dance and the Waltz and Final Scene from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake. The Everyman cd I own has similar artwork (very attractive) but only the main detail,and lettering across the upper part of it,obscuring that pretty bird,somewhat!!

(http://i.imgur.com/CJDL0XH.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Spineur on June 23, 2017, 11:36:08 AM
Ravel wrote a version of Antar where he uses mostly Rimsky music adding transitions between recitatives



I dont really care for it but some may be interested by this rarity.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 23, 2017, 11:55:57 AM
Is it me or are the rest of RK's output not as high in Standard was the few works he is famous for? I HAVE listened to most of his works and don't really find them nearly as interesting as Scheherazade, Capriccio Espanol or even the Russian Easter Overture.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2017, 12:32:05 PM
I think Tchaikovsky said of RK that he thought he'd become one of the greatest composers or disappear without trace. However, he did neither becoming, instead, the most accomplished second-rater.
Not sure I agree. RK was my first favourite composer. I'd recommend the delightful Christmas Eve ballet, the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Antar Symphony as well as the Russian Easter Festival Overture, the incidental music to Mlada and Sadko and May Night.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 23, 2017, 12:58:58 PM
I think Tchaikovsky said of RK that he thought he'd become one of the greatest composers or disappear without trace. However, he did neither becoming, instead, the most accomplished second-rater.
Not sure I agree. RK was my first favourite composer. I'd recommend the delightful Christmas Eve ballet, the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Antar Symphony as well as the Russian Easter Festival Overture, the incidental music to Mlada and Sadko and May Night.
I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/717aeJZGa6L._SX425_.jpg)

I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2017, 10:34:42 PM
I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/717aeJZGa6L._SX425_.jpg)

I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.
Yes, Sheherazade, which I always have trouble spelling, was my first favourite classical work - my mother had a record of it. Like you I occasionally listen to it always with pleasure.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 23, 2017, 10:38:56 PM
I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/717aeJZGa6L._SX425_.jpg)

I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.
It's a good set. Harry got me on to it and I was quite surprised at just how good it is. Symphonies are excellent.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Spineur on June 24, 2017, 12:11:29 AM
Is it me or are the rest of RK's output not as high in Standard was the few works he is famous for? I HAVE listened to most of his works and don't really find them nearly as interesting as Scheherazade, Capriccio Espanol or even the Russian Easter Overture.
For me the best of Rimsky can be found in his operas.
Snow Maiden, Kitezh, Sadko, Tsar bride, golden coquerel.
His most famous works sound too much to me as some film music for some holywood blockbuster, although in fact there were not used so much by the film industry.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on June 24, 2017, 02:36:06 AM
For me the best of Rimsky can be found in his operas.
Snow Maiden, Kitezh, Sadko, Tsar Bride, Golden Coquerel.
His most famous works sound too much to me as some film music for some holywood blockbuster, although in fact there were not used so much by the film industry.

The Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya is beyond a masterpiece.  As with Taneyev's The Oresteia, Rachmaninov's The Miserly KnightBusoni's Doctor Faust, and Hindemith's Cardillac, it ought to be better known!

And is it not possible that certain movie composers imitated Rimsky-Korsakov, hence the impression?  0:)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 24, 2017, 04:13:07 AM
I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway! You could even say he was that sound. Others added their own imaginative slant later on,of course! As to Scheherazade? 1888! With that storyline and the movies that followed years later;it's hardly surprising that you immediately identify RK's famous score as sounding like a film score. Of course,if you'd heard it when it was first performed you would never have heard music like that before. I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here. He is regarded as one of the great masters of orchestration. His book,Principles of Orchestration,was long regarded as one of the most important text books on the subject;and is still cited by musical scholars. Indeed,Respighi,one of the great colourists,in terms of his dazzling orchestral mastery studied composition with him. However,Rimsky Korsakov is less skilful when it comes to structure. His attempts at Symphonies and concertos display this failing. It's interesting that the most successful and popular of all his symphonies is the only one with a program! Namely,Antar (No 2)! Although,according to the booklet included with the Jarvi set of the symphonies (DG),RK,himself,regarded it as a Symphonic Suite,not a symphony,anyway!
That said,I agree that I have found some of Rimsky Korsakov's other works,disappointing. Not Antar,though;which has long been a favourite of mine. I also enjoy listening to some of his operas. As to structure and whether RK had that vital sense of dramatic pacing that makes an opera worthy of being called one? Probably not? But his dazzling orchestration and his beautiful writing for voices more than make up for this. I recently collected the Melodiya reissues of Sadko and the sadly neglected,but very beautiful,The Tale of Tsar Saltan. I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: snyprrr on June 24, 2017, 06:23:13 AM
Just listen to the damn music, for goodness' sake! I've heard The Firebird, and it's amazing. And I've heard Scheherazade, and it's amazing. Seriously, some people put way too many restrictions on their 'appreciation' of music, like you have to do things in a certain order. Just listen to it! No need to overcomplicate things.

You beast! :P

I listened to the 'Russian Easter Overture' last night... ok,... sounded just like Stravinsky, lol!! Actually, it sounded just like Janacek's BigTheme from 'The House of the Dead' and the Violin Concerto. I can see where IS wanted to "out perfume" NRK with FB, and he did it!

And, as far as "listening to the music" goes... I can usually duess "what" I'm going to hear, and if I can't, I'm usually disappointed. With me, the LESS music I hear, the better. (and I don't know why no one else subscribes to this... there's too much mediocrity and crap to just "listen listen listen"...

I'd rather a living person give me the "rundown". I already know RK is old fashioned with lots of standard issue- I'm just looking to see if there's any SuperOutrageouslyKaleidoscopic(?)... I'm certainly not going to wade through the Operas (just tell me what the best 15mins. is, lol)

From the RussianEasterOv, I can really hear where Stravinsky got his sound from... it's almost the same as the ending Firebird melody...

Again, sounded like late janacek...
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 24, 2017, 06:41:14 AM
You beast! :P

Again, sounded like late janacek...
You mean late Janacek sounded like RK.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Turner on June 24, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
Janacek´s style is much more abrupt and contains different patterns.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on June 24, 2017, 03:02:14 PM
I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway!

He certainly had some help from Max Steiner, whose score for King Kong is usually considered the first "big symphonic" score for underlining the action (1932-1933).  Korngold's A Midsummer Night's Dream dates from 1935.

I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here.

So am I!  I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery! :)

I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.

Great news!  Thanks for the information!  0:)




Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 24, 2017, 08:05:56 PM
I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway! You could even say he was that sound. Others added their own imaginative slant later on,of course! As to Scheherazade? 1888! With that storyline and the movies that followed years later;it's hardly surprising that you immediately identify RK's famous score as sounding like a film score. Of course,if you'd heard it when it was first performed you would never have heard music like that before. I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here. He is regarded as one of the great masters of orchestration. His book,Principles of Orchestration,was long regarded as one of the most important text books on the subject;and is still cited by musical scholars. Indeed,Respighi,one of the great colourists,in terms of his dazzling orchestral mastery studied composition with him. However,Rimsky Korsakov is less skilful when it comes to structure. His attempts at Symphonies and concertos display this failing. It's interesting that the most successful and popular of all his symphonies is the only one with a program! Namely,Antar (No 2)! Although,according to the booklet included with the Jarvi set of the symphonies (DG),RK,himself,regarded it as a Symphonic Suite,not a symphony,anyway!
That said,I agree that I have found some of Rimsky Korsakov's other works,disappointing. Not Antar,though;which has long been a favourite of mine. I also enjoy listening to some of his operas. As to structure and whether RK had that vital sense of dramatic pacing that makes an opera worthy of being called one? Probably not? But his dazzling orchestration and his beautiful writing for voices more than make up for this. I recently collected the Melodiya reissues of Sadko and the sadly neglected,but very beautiful,The Tale of Tsar Saltan. I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.
Interesting post. Respighi of course sounds a bit 'Hollywood' at times but he died in the 1930s. I'm sure works like The Pines of Rome and Church Windows influenced the likes of Miklos Rozsa etc.
My favourite RK collection:


One of my very first classical LPs (the shorter works).
I rate Ansermet very highly and I can't think of a better (or more inexpensive) introduction to RK. His most enjoyable works, excluding 'Antar' are here.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 25, 2017, 04:04:28 AM
Someone posted that Previn's recording of Korngold's Violin Concerto with Mutter made it sound like Star Wars! After reading that I just had to put it on! ;D I was thinking,all I needed was one of those toy light sabres to conduct it with!! ??? ;D I actually quite like the Mutter/Previn hyper romantic treatment of the score;but it's not my favourite.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 25, 2017, 04:29:50 AM
Interesting post. Respighi of course sounds a bit 'Hollywood' at times but he died in the 1930s. I'm sure works like The Pines of Rome and Church Windows influenced the likes of Miklos Rozsa etc.
My favourite RK collection:


One of my very first classical LPs (the shorter works).
I rate Ansermet very highly and I can't think of a better (or more inexpensive) introduction to RK. His most enjoyable works, excluding 'Antar' are here.
Regarding the Ansermet Scheherazade our old friend M Forever had this to say about the bassoon solo:
(when he said "it went out of favor" he meant the French bassoon, there is a previous post about it being replaced with the Heckel bassoon...)

It sounds great and has a very characteristic sound, so I think it's a shame it went out of favor even with some French players. Although they play the Heckel bassoon with reeds and in a way which sounds not too different from the basson sound. Still, one less specific local flavor in an already all-too-globalized world. It actually blends very well with the other woodwinds in French sections and it provides a very smooth, velvety color element which sounds great with lower strings. I first heard it a long time ago when the ONdF came to Berlin - at that time I hadn't been aware of that and they played a Berlioz overture (IIRC, Carneval romain) with a bassoon solo and it was a great (and interesting suprise) to hear that.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jo498 on June 25, 2017, 04:50:33 AM
Ansermet recorded "Antar" (which I prefer to Sheherazade) and it is available on a different disc/compilation. The sound was good in the late 1950s but it sounds somewhat dated by now.

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 25, 2017, 05:03:16 AM
Indeed! But I was referring to the actual sound of Korngold's orchestration,not who got there first!. Taking his ambitious Sinfonietta for example;large parts of which sound as if they might have come straight out of a Hollywood blockbuster. The Scherzo sounds for all the world like an Errol Flynn swashbuckler. The second movement could be the music for one of those love scenes. Those big climaxes towards the end! As to needing lessons from Max Steiner. I don't think so?! Korgold was one of the most astonishing  examples of a child prodigy in history. Composers like Richard Strauss,Mahler and Puccini were in awe of his precocious talent! Furthermore,Max Steiner might have composed the first original film score of major importance,but his use of themes was regarded as simplistic and crude. It was Korngold who recognised the potential of the medium and took it to another level,creating the complex and often symphonically developed scoring that we identify with movies today. That's not to denigrate Steiner's achievement. Just watching King Kong and listening to that score,makes you realise how much influence it would have had on Korngold in composing his scores!
I don't think of King Kong when I'm listening to Rimsky Korsakov,though!! ??? :o ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 25, 2017, 05:33:33 AM
Yes,I I collected the Melodiya recordings of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (Melodiya) and Sadko (Catus Classics) and was a bit miffed to discover that I couldn't purchase a matching Soviet recording of The Golden Cockerel and lo and behold,Melodiya have come up trumps with a reissue. I haven't seen any reviews,but if it's as good as the others I will be happy! Yes,they are ancient old recordings,and the two I collected are in mono;but you get that authenticity and feel for a tradition,and the singing is truly wonderful. I just don't think it can be bettered!

I love Antar,and I will have to look for that recording,Jo498. I recently made a cd-r of Beecham's Antar,which he didn't record commercially,but can be bought as part of a 2cd (Great Conductors EMI);although it's probably been deleted! I thoroughly enjoyed Beecham's mono recording so I think I can handle the 'dated' sound!! ;D The More Antar's in my collection,the merrier,I say! :)

vandermolen. You've got me again! I haven't got that Double Decca set! :(  I like Ansermet and I'm going to have to collect that,at some point!! ::) ;D

Talking about King Kong! Another film I like. The Most Dangerous Game. Filmed on the same sets,with much of the same crew,directors,Fay Wray and Max Steiner,as well!. The chase sequence is very exciting. Extraordinary for the time. (The 1935 She is quite good fun,and has it's moments,too! You can't beat the original novel,though!) NB: Son of King Kong's quite fun too;but obviously not on the same level as the original. One for fans of Cliffhanger serials,like me!! ::) ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2017, 02:16:43 AM
Yes,I I collected the Melodiya recordings of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (Melodiya) and Sadko (Catus Classics) and was a bit miffed to discover that I couldn't purchase a matching Soviet recording of The Golden Cockerel and lo and behold,Melodiya have come up trumps with a reissue. I haven't seen any reviews,but if it's as good as the others I will be happy! Yes,they are ancient old recordings,and the two I collected are in mono;but you get that authenticity and feel for a tradition,and the singing is truly wonderful. I just don't think it can be bettered!

I love Antar,and I will have to look for that recording,Jo498. I recently made a cd-r of Beecham's Antar,which he didn't record commercially,but can be bought as part of a 2cd (Great Conductors EMI);although it's probably been deleted! I thoroughly enjoyed Beecham's mono recording so I think I can handle the 'dated' sound!! ;D The More Antar's in my collection,the merrier,I say! :)

vandermolen. You've got me again! I haven't got that Double Decca set! :(  I like Ansermet and I'm going to have to collect that,at some point!! ::) ;D

Talking about King Kong! Another film I like. The Most Dangerous Game. Filmed on the same sets,with much of the same crew,directors,Fay Wray and Max Steiner,as well!. The chase sequence is very exciting. Extraordinary for the time. (The 1935 She is quite good fun,and has it's moments,too! You can't beat the original novel,though!) NB: Son of King Kong's quite fun too;but obviously not on the same level as the original. One for fans of Cliffhanger serials,like me!! ::) ;D
Yes, the one significant omission apart from Antar from that great Ansermet RK double CD set is The Invisible City of Kitezh. cilgwyn don't forget to post a photo of yourself conducting the Korngold VC with a toy light-sabre from Star Wars.  8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 27, 2017, 06:11:56 AM
Actually,my favourite orchestral works by Rimsky Korsakov are: Antar,The Tale of Tsar Saltan-suite (and the famous Bumblebee,as well! ;D) and The Golden Cockerel-Suite. Can't believe I forgot the last two! Big favourites,of mine! And I like the Russian Easter Festival and the Capriccio Espagnol. The first three named are my all time favourites,though. I like Scheherazade;but for some reason I like Antar better;and I play it much more often. Why? I just think it's more subtle. It has a mysterious atmosphere that really appeals to me. Not that I don't like Scheherazade. I just find it's orientalism's more kitsch? The story behind Antar just appeals much more to me. I used to love folk tales,or fairy tales,if you like. I loved the Arabian Nights. I had a big fat edition of a slightly abridged version of the Richard Burton (not the actor,of course! Hard to imagine him doing that!! ;D) translation for a while. I remember being amused at all the very rude words that were missing in my childrens editions (Andrew Lang,possibly? He was a well known purveyor of re-tellings back then. Allot of his books are still in print,though). Wish I'd kept it!! Alas!! :( I agree that some of Rimsky Korsakov's other orchestral works are disappointing,though. Still,when you've run out of Rimsky Korsakov's best,there's always Liadov. This is my favourite collection,and the one I grew up with on a genuine Melodiya Lp.

(http://i.imgur.com/77XMF7p.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/6HvrdOs.png)

That dark forest scene really captured my young imagination. I always loved woods!  The one on the right is the cd reissue. Nice;but I admit I prefer the former! It has that Russian fairytale atmosphere. Baba Yaga could be lurking somewhere in that forest! I used to prop it up in front of me while I listened!! Svetlanov's Melidoya Lp of Balakirev's First Symphony was another one. I didn't hear Tamara,unfortunately,until I was a bit older!

And if you want to take you're Russian escapism a stage further;there's always Gliere's mighty Ilya Murometz. This has always been my favourite recording. Again,it's the one I grew up with. Faberman's tempi capturing that feeling of the remote past and timelessness perfectly,imo! Let's hope this cd set isn't afflicted by the dreaded cd rot (Bronzing). Some of those Unicorn cd's were. My copies okay,so far!
 And of course,there's always Borodin's Second. This Lp I blasted my family with as a youngster was conducted by Roberto Benzi!! (See right). Not exactly a well known conductor,I admit! The coupling was a decided plus! As far as I can make out this recording has never been reissued on cd;and I've never been able to find a recording on cd that I liked anywhere near as much!! :( He might not be a big name,but the performance had just that sense of technicolor spectacle and grandeur that sweeps you off your feet!

(http://i.imgur.com/sjp5jNG.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/Z8gCQ4c.jpg)

Oh,and I mustn't forget Kalinnikov;who deserves to be a bit better known than he is!


 :) :) :)

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2017, 08:26:59 AM
cilgwyn do you know this?


I'm a great admirer of Liadov/Lyadov although his students Miaskovsky/Myaskovsky and Prokofiev didn't think much of him. Apparently he was incredibly indolent (which endears him to me) and hardly composed anything. However what he did compose is quite magical. I have the Melodiya CD and it is a shame that they didn't replicate the atmospheric woodland scene from the LP release. I love his Russian Folkongs and Fragment from the Apocalypse (pity he didn't write more of it) as well as the hauntingly beautiful 'The Enchanted Lake'.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Florestan on June 27, 2017, 09:34:53 AM
Oh,and I mustn't forget Kalinnikov;who deserves to be a bit better known than he is!

Amen!

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/972/MI0000972205.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I'm a great admirer of Liadov/Lyadov [...] what he did compose is quite magical.

Amen to that as well!

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/202/MI0003202010.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Magical, childlike (in the best sense of the word), fairytale-sque and absolutely charming.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Maestro267 on June 27, 2017, 10:45:51 PM
His most famous works sound too much to me as some film music for some holywood blockbuster,

Of course, you mean that film music sounds like R-K's most famous works. They came long before Hollywood blockbusters.

I'm inclined to agree that the lesser-known works have less "pull" to them than the famous ones. I've tried a few, even the likes of Antar, and they don't quite grab me in the way that a work like Scheherazade does.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jo498 on June 28, 2017, 12:58:28 AM
His best works are probably the late operas but I admit that I also know mostly/only the suites. I find Sheherazade more repetitive than Antar or the suites. Another great favorite is the "Christmas Eve" suite which has polonaise as good as the famous one from Eugen Onegin.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 28, 2017, 05:47:42 AM
Yet,Antar has allot of admirers,judging from posts here,and at other sites,over the years, I love the score,of which I have several recordings and definitely prefer it to Scheherazade. I find it more subtle. I like the atmosphere of the piece and the storyline. Antar has always had it's exponents;but look at all the recordings of scheherazade! Despite advocacy by several talented conductors over the years,Antar remains in it's shadow. I can understand why this is so. For one thing the tunes are more memorable. Scheherazade has the catchy,hit tunes. Also,the scoring is more obviously spectacular. The program behind it has also helped enormously. You only have to think of all the movies along those lines. It obviously has allot of appeal for people. That doesn't mean Antar is necessarily inferior,however. The more refined scoring of Antar,and the fact that it is less reliant on catchy tunes and melodramatic effect is one of the reasons I prefer it. It also has a mysterious atmosphere which evokes a remote past and fairy tale atmosphere which strongly appeals to me. Imho,Antar is a wonderful score,which will always provide pleasure to those who love it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jo498 on June 28, 2017, 06:02:30 AM
I largely agree with your evaluation of Antar and the comparison to Sheherazade. Antar and the Christmas Eve Suite are my top recommendations for R-K's orchestral pieces. I don't deny that Sheherazade and Tsar Saltan are orchestrally more spectacular but most people already know them... ;)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 28, 2017, 07:09:19 AM
I must admit I do like The Tale of Tsar Saltan-suite. Again I find the fairy tale atmosphere and painting more subtle,more refined than that of Scheherezade. It's not it's fault it's so popular!! ;D The story appeals to me,too. I bought the Melodiya recording of the opera about two years ago and it was fascinating to hear the famous music,including the Bumblee (which is,as you probably know,not actually a part of the suite) fits into the 'action'! There is no libretto with the Melodiya set,but I don't usually bother with them anyway. I do find it strange that an opera filled with such beautiful music has been so neglected. Lot's of lovely choruses and pretty writing for voices and a folksy,fairy tale atmosphere with those wonderful voices you get from that era keep your attention. Mono sound,but good for it's time. It really does needs a modern recording,though! Not sure if those old Soviet era performers could be bettered,though! The Snow Maiden has allot of lovely music in it,too. I used to have the Lp set when I was a youngster. I do like a happy ending,though!! ??? :( ;D I like Sadko,too. I must try and find the money for Melodiya's release of The Golden Cockerel,too. The suite from that opera is another favourite of mine. Beecham and Markevitch are particularly good.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 28, 2017, 07:35:23 AM
Thought I'd have another go at his third symphony. I really need Svetlanov in this territory,though,I fear! Jarvi sounds pretty good,mind. The sound is very good,the strings nice and lush. Some nice 'fairy tale' writing in the second movement,right now. Actually,I'm quite enjoying the score this time around. Nice artwork,I must say!

(http://i.imgur.com/teO4as6.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 28, 2017, 08:51:37 AM
Reading the booklet notes. I forgot that Antar had an unhappy ending! :( ;D I'm quite enjoying RK's third symphony,actually. Nice,lively,spirited writing for the orchestra. I like the second movement. That's the one I was referring to in my previous post. My excuse? I'm using cordless headphones and the cd player is downstairs. I do like this movement. Parts of it come closest to that 'fairy tale' RK we know so well. Very nice,indeed. He obviously felt constricted in this kind of form,but I think there's some lovely orchestration here. A bracing finale bringing it to a close. I have read some good things about this symphony in the past. I think I might even add it to the list of RK's compositions that I do like.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 28, 2017, 10:14:58 AM
On the other hand,RK's First Symphony got switched off partway!! The first movement is quite spirited,but the remainder is a bit of a dull exercise in forgettable themes,I fear! I did actually enjoy the third,though. I notice that the 2cd set of Svetlananov condcting the symphonies is coupled with the third. I wouldn't mind hearing that pairing. ::) ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 29, 2017, 10:30:40 AM
I did quite enjoy Rimsky Korsakov's third yesterday. The first ever,mind! And particularly the Scherzo. That is nice! To be fair,Rimsky Korsakov doesn't seem to have liked composing symphonies much,and it was just something he 'needed' to do!
On the other hand,this is a less well known Russian Symphony I really did enjoy. Rousing and colourfully orchestrated with a really exciting finale. And it's not supposed to be as good as his First! Well,for a not supposed to be as good symphony,I think it's pretty great! Excitingly performed too,with top notch Chandos sound. Excellent! How tragic his untimely death,and what a sad loss to music! :(

(http://i.imgur.com/WuLQHPk.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 29, 2017, 09:21:07 PM
How tragic his untimely death,and what a sad loss to music! :(

(http://i.imgur.com/WuLQHPk.jpg)
+1 it would have been fascinating to hear how Kalinnikov's music would have developed had he lived on. I like both symphonies, especially No.1.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on June 30, 2017, 12:37:36 AM
I'm quite enjoying RK's third symphony,actually. Nice,lively,spirited writing for the orchestra. I like the second movement. ....I do like this movement. Parts of it come closest to that 'fairy tale' RK we know so well. Very nice,indeed. He obviously felt constricted in this kind of form,but I think there's some lovely orchestration here. A bracing finale bringing it to a close. I have read some good things about this symphony in the past. I think I might even add it to the list of RK's compositions that I do like.

On the other hand,RK's First Symphony got switched off partway!! The first movement is quite spirited,but the remainder is a bit of a dull exercise in forgettable themes,I fear! I did actually enjoy the third,though. I notice that the 2cd set of Svetlananov condcting the symphonies is coupled with the third. I wouldn't mind hearing that pairing. ::) ;D

I have tried to like the Third Symphony several times, but have always found it lacking interest for my ears and mind, while the First was much more of a success!   ;)

However, thanks to your comments, I think t is time to try the Third Symphony again: I have the DGG set, but should seek the Svetlanov set..

Yes, to Kalinnikov!  He might have been quite prolific: what he had accomplished by age 35 is excellent.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on June 30, 2017, 02:47:40 AM
I've tried listening to his third symphony several times before;this was the first time I enjoyed it. Not that I was bowled over! It could have been the mood I was in;but I just felt it was quite a pleasant listen. The Scherzo is the stand out. If the rest was as good as that! Let's say I've heard worse. Case in point! I actually do quite like this symphony!! ??? ::) ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/0jT0G3E.jpg)

vandermolen. I think I'll reply to your post on the Kalinnikov thread. If only to make it a little longer!! ;D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Scion7 on July 01, 2017, 03:02:08 AM
Scion like R-K.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2017, 04:51:41 AM
I've tried listening to his third symphony several times before;this was the first time I enjoyed it. Not that I was bowled over! It could have been the mood I was in;but I just felt it was quite a pleasant listen. The Scherzo is the stand out. If the rest was as good as that! Let's say I've heard worse. Case in point! I actually do quite like this symphony!! ??? ::) ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/0jT0G3E.jpg)

vandermolen. I think I'll reply to your post on the Kalinnikov thread. If only to make it a little longer!! ;D
OK see you on the Kalinnikov thread cilgwyn.  8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on July 18, 2017, 11:48:34 PM
One of the advantages of having a sort-out of one's CD collection is that you come across (or at least I do) CDs that you had forgotten about. Such is the excellent one below (should the image appear). If not it is an excellent two CD set entitled 'Rimsky-Korsakov: The Spirit of Russia' on the Vox label. I have a soft spot for Vox/Turnabout as it was an inexpensive way, on LP, for my youthful self to discover some great material including Bruckner's 7th and 8th symphonies (Horensten in No.8 in an IMHO unrivalled performance). Also it introduced me to new composers such as Vagn Holmboe, whose 8th Symphony was my introduction to his music (never released on CD) and Hilding Rosenberg's 6th Symphony 'Semplice' (which is on CD).
Anyway, back to RK this set includes The Invisible City of Kitezh (Suite) one of my favourite RK works which I first discovered in this performance on a Turnabout LP (Philharmonia Hungarica, Richard Kapp). Also included is the suite from Mlada, May Night, Overture, Christmas Eve Suite No.2, Overture on Russian Themes, Szazka (Fairy Tale), Sadko, Piano Concerto and Concert Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra - a great collection and not too expensive on Amazon (under £2.00 on Amazon US for a second-hand copy).


Having just listened to it again I think that the performance of the Suite No.2 from 'Christmas Eve' is even more magical than the fine Ansermet recording on Decca - definitely one of my other favourite RK scores. The Overture on Russian Themes is excellent too - I don't recall hearing it before.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 19, 2017, 11:09:53 AM
I have tried to like the Third Symphony several times, but have always found it lacking interest for my ears and mind, while the First was much more of a success!   ;)

I think the same about the 3rd, I prefer the first two by far.

One of the advantages of having a sort-out of one's CD collection is that you come across (or at least I do) CDs that you had forgotten about. Such is the excellent one below (should the image appear). If not it is an excellent two CD set entitled 'Rimsky-Korsakov: The Spirit of Russia' on the Vox label. I have a soft spot for Vox/Turnabout as it was an inexpensive way, on LP, for my youthful self to discover some great material including Bruckner's 7th and 8th symphonies (Horensten in No.8 in an IMHO unrivalled performance). Also it introduced me to new composers such as Vagn Holmboe, whose 8th Symphony was my introduction to his music (never released on CD) and Hilding Rosenberg's 6th Symphony 'Semplice' (which is on CD).
Anyway, back to RK this set includes The Invisible City of Kitezh (Suite) one of my favourite RK works which I first discovered in this performance on a Turnabout LP (Philharmonia Hungarica, Richard Kapp). Also included is the suite from Mlada, May Night, Overture, Christmas Eve Suite No.2, Overture on Russian Themes, Szazka (Fairy Tale), Sadko, Piano Concerto and Concert Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra - a great collection and not too expensive on Amazon (under £2.00 on Amazon US for a second-hand copy).


Having just listened to it again I think that the performance of the Suite No.2 from 'Christmas Eve' is even more magical than the fine Ansermet recording on Decca - definitely one of my other favourite RK scores. The Overture on Russian Themes is excellent too - I don't recall hearing it before.

Excellent compilation of works! The suite of 'The Invisible City of Kitezh' is just magnificent, one of the best along with the suites of 'The Golden Cockerel', 'Mlada', 'Tsar Saltan', and 'Christmas Eve' (so far just the suites, I don't like operas); the Russian Easter Festival Overture is one of my all time favorite overtures, absolutely magical, resplendent and brilliantly scored.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
I think the same about the 3rd, I prefer the first two by far.

Excellent compilation of works! The suite of 'The Invisible City of Kitezh' is just magnificent, one of the best along with the suites of 'The Golden Cockerel', 'Mlada', 'Tsar Saltan', and 'Christmas Eve' (so far just the suites, I don't like operas); the Russian Easter Festival Overture is one of my all time favorite overtures, absolutely magical, resplendent and brilliantly scored.
Agreed although unfortunately the Russian Easter Festival Overture is not included in the Vox set. It is still brilliant however - I listened to both CDs right through and enjoyed every work.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 19, 2017, 12:56:22 PM
I'll certainly look out for that one. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Michael Ponti,I know from his  interpretations of Scriabin and the  Raff Piano Concerto. The good thing about this collection,also,is the fact that there are quite a few pieces that I don't have in my collection,at present.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 19, 2017, 01:21:23 PM
AS someone who does like some operas,I will certainly be looking forward to acquiring this very exciting (imho! ;D) recent release from Melodiya to add to my two other classic,old,Soviet recordimgs of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (on Melodiya) and Sadko (my copy is on the Cantus Classics label). I remember looking for a recording,last year I think (?) and being a bit miffed to find that there wasn't a Russian recording available,of this opera,from that era on cd,from Melodiya,or any other label. And now suddenly I see this in Presto's lists (and Amazon,now). There will undoubtedly be no accompanying English libretto;but after a cursory scan of the storyline,and the occasional peek at the descriptions of the 'action' unfolding in each act,I rarely follow them,anyway! I just enjoy the singing and the music;and Rimsky Korsakov's operas are full of lovely music. The singers from that golden era of Soviet recording are incomporable in this repertoire,imho. I like the artwork for this reissue,too. Bold,striking,simple and colourful!! Now,maybe a bit of busking in the town centre?!! ::) ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/WkJqGo4.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/UqBik1m.jpg)

I also hope that Melodiya will begin reissuing some of their rarer back catalogue,as time goes on. Those old Collets,and Russian Record Catalogues,and lists,were simply bulging with stuff that has yet to be released!!







Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on July 21, 2017, 12:39:04 PM
AS someone who does like some operas,I will certainly be looking forward to acquiring this very exciting (imho! ;D) recent release from Melodiya to add to my two other classic,old,Soviet recordimgs of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (on Melodiya) and Sadko (my copy is on the Cantus Classics label). I remember looking for a recording,last year I think (?) and being a bit miffed to find that there wasn't a Russian recording available,of this opera,from that era on cd,from Melodiya,or any other label. And now suddenly I see this in Presto's lists (and Amazon,now). There will undoubtedly be no accompanying English libretto;but after a cursory scan of the storyline,and the occasional peek at the descriptions of the 'action' unfolding in each act,I rarely follow them,anyway! I just enjoy the singing and the music;and Rimsky Korsakov's operas are full of lovely music.

I also hope that Melodiya will begin reissuing some of their rarer back catalogue,as time goes on.

Amen!  In that catalogue are composers like Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov whose works have basically disappeared outside of YouTube.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on July 21, 2017, 11:40:07 PM
Amen!  In that catalogue are composers like Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov whose works have basically disappeared outside of YouTube.
Totally agree. He's still alive I think. He composed the marvellous soundtrack to the epic soviet-era 'War and Peace' which has also never been released on CD (there was an LP decades ago which I have). Symphony 2 for strings is fine as well.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on July 22, 2017, 02:36:27 AM
Totally agree. He's still alive I think. He composed the marvellous soundtrack to the epic soviet-era 'War and Peace' which has also never been released on CD (there was an LP decades ago which I have). Symphony 2 for strings is fine as well.

Yes, the last I checked, Ovchinnikov is 80 or 81 now.

Are you listening, Melodiya?  Is any body there?  Does anybody care?   ;)

https://www.youtube.com/v/_Fq4H4SAb6s
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on March 02, 2018, 12:41:50 PM
Rimsky-Korsakov is my favorite composer of The Mighty Handful, beating even Mussorgsky. My favorite works from Rimsky-Korsakov are Sadko (both the opera and the symphonic poem), Golden Cockerel (both the opera and the suite) and Scheherazade. What a marvelous orchestrator!
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 02, 2018, 04:39:10 PM
Rimsky-Korsakov is clearly the best one in that group (IMHO), a convincing favorite of course. Scheherazade (despite its overexposure), Antar, Russian Festival Overture, Capriccio Espagnol, String Sextet, Mlada Suite, Christmas Night Suite, The Golden Cockerel Suite, The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh Suite and The Tale of Tsar Saltan Suite are my chosen works. I suppose I have to give to the operas a try at some point.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on March 02, 2018, 06:02:33 PM
Rimsky-Korsakov is clearly the best one in that group (IMHO), a convincing favorite of course. Scheherazade (despite its overexposure), Antar, Russian Festival Overture, Capriccio Espagnol, String Sextet, Mlada Suite, Christmas Night Suite, The Golden Cockerel Suite, The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh Suite and The Tale of Tsar Saltan Suite are my chosen works. I suppose I have to give to the operas a try at some point.

Try the complete opera of Kitezh for a real treat!

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 21, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Go to 44:50 to experience the vocal styling of Leif Segerstam. He, and few orchestra members add some loud howls at the most intense moment of the final movement. I've never heard this done before in Scheherazade, but will now expect it from every future performance/recording I hear...


https://www.youtube.com/v/zY4w4_W30aQ
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: bwv 1080 on October 21, 2018, 11:35:48 AM
Scheherazade is both the soundtrack and theme of the first episode of The Romanoffs (on Amazon Prime by the creator of Mad Men)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 24, 2018, 04:04:56 PM
Go to 44:50 to experience the vocal styling of Leif Segerstam. He, and few orchestra members add some loud howls at the most intense moment of the final movement. I've never heard this done before in Scheherazade, but will now expect it from every future performance/recording I hear...


https://www.youtube.com/v/zY4w4_W30aQ

Hilarious! The first time I see something like that! Rather original, but I'm not sure if it's good that it's done often
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 24, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
???

Idiotic.

What has been seen cannot be unseen. I doubt I will ever listen to a Segerstam recording again, since I won't be able to shake the impression that he is an imbecile.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 25, 2018, 04:18:30 AM
???

Idiotic.

What has been seen cannot be unseen. I doubt I will ever listen to a Segerstam recording again, since I won't be able to shake the impression that he is an imbecile.



 ;D I own too many good Segerstam recordings to ignore them, but yes I'm afraid that every time I listen to his Sibelius 2nd I will now hear him howling right at the start of the finale.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 25, 2018, 04:24:55 AM
Must. Not. Hit. "Play."
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: North Star on October 25, 2018, 04:49:42 AM
Must. Not. Hit. "Play."
Just do it.  >:D
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 25, 2018, 04:53:52 AM
I just don't understand why he did it. It doesn't add anything to the music. It isn't asked for in the music. It doesn't correspond to what is happening in the music in any way. It distracts from the instrumental performance. It disrupts the flow of music. Why did the orchestra go along with it? It's a mystery to me...

I have lots of interesting theories that I'd like tried out (for example start from a chaotic tuning and start immediately into a piece - always wanted to hear what that would sound like), but one try of this in practice should have showed it to be immediately a dud. It is different....
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 25, 2018, 05:05:21 AM
Just do it.  >:D

Must.  Resist.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908): The Perfect Autobiography
Post by: Cato on December 19, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
Albert Jay Nock was born in 1870 and died in 1945.  I discovered his works in the early 1960's.  He was one of the great essayists, public intellectuals, and - in a sense - philosophers (a designation he would violently reject) of the last century.

In an essay called The Purpose of Biography, Nock excoriates the salacious and sensational aspects of "popular biography," and proposes that biographers - or the person writing an autobiography - must limit themselves to only those things which pertain to the subject's art or to the subject's historical  importance.

You can find the essay here on p. 122:

https://books.google.com/books?id=raJsvZaqsQsC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=Albert+Jay+Nock+%2B+Rimsky+Korsakov&source=bl&ots=NQlL8Rx4yU&sig=pSGvJx7ikIoA0OvPMjiAB3LMzHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ6JLzsazfAhUNj1kKHeYBB6YQ6AEwDHoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=Albert%20Jay%20Nock%20%2B%20Rimsky%20Korsakov&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=raJsvZaqsQsC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=Albert+Jay+Nock+%2B+Rimsky+Korsakov&source=bl&ots=NQlL8Rx4yU&sig=pSGvJx7ikIoA0OvPMjiAB3LMzHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ6JLzsazfAhUNj1kKHeYBB6YQ6AEwDHoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=Albert%20Jay%20Nock%20%2B%20Rimsky%20Korsakov&f=false)

A few excerpts:

Quote
...Like Thoreau, Rimsky-Korsakov was in one capacity, and one only, a public figure.  In all other respects his life, like Thoreau's, had not a single feature of legitimate interest to the public.  The first signal merit of his book lies in its clear, consistent, consciousness that the public was entitled to the fullest information about anything which bore directly or indirectly on the author's character and activities as a musician, and was not entitled to anything which had any other bearing.  The book's fidelity to this principle is amazing...I have scanned it line by line for some sign or departure or wavering, but I have not found one....

The author had a wife, an "excellent musician," and has nothing else to say about her in any other capacity...Rimsky-Korsakov has a bit to say about his love for the sea...This seems irrelevant, but in the next chapter we find the author...in the Naval College...and this in turn is introductory to the account of sixteen years of effort to drive the two careers in double harness, and of the one's reactions upon the other....

(Concerning evaluating the efforts of Cui, Borodin, etc.) ...let the reader observe how Rimsky-Korsakov deals with them.  Not a word is said about anyone's personal character, qualities, or habits, except as bearing on music; then what is said is said in full, and with complete objectivity.  Balakirev went to pieces, Moussorgsky drank too much...well, that was that, and its effect on their productivity was such and such.

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on December 19, 2018, 10:30:45 AM
Rimsky-Korsakov is my favorite composer of The Mighty Handful, beating even Mussorgsky. My favorite works from Rimsky-Korsakov are Sadko (both the opera and the symphonic poem), Golden Cockerel (both the opera and the suite) and Scheherazade. What a marvelous orchestrator!

He's mine as well.  I just listened again to the Russian Easter Overture on the weekend (von Matacic 1959 recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra).  What a fun and incredibly energetic work that is!  My favourite work of his, followed closely by Scheherazade.

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on December 19, 2018, 10:58:11 AM
I’m surprised by how little attention R-K’s 3rd Symphony gets - it’s a wonderfully energetic and melodic work with a particularly catchy scherzo in 5/8 time. In a way it reminds me quite a bit of some of Glazunov’s symphonies. This BIS recording with the Malaysian PO under Kees Bakels (who also have a fantastic recording of the two Kalinnikov symphonies) is wonderfully crisp and engaging:

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on December 19, 2018, 11:13:47 AM
I’m surprised by how little attention R-K’s 3rd Symphony gets - it’s a wonderfully energetic and melodic work with a particularly catchy scherzo in 5/8 time. In a way it reminds me quite a bit of some of Glazunov’s symphonies. This BIS recording with the Malaysian PO under Kees Bakels (who also have a fantastic recording of the two Kalinnikov symphonies) is wonderfully crisp and engaging:



I have been trying for years to like his Third Symphony!  His first two are wonderful, but so far I just find very little of interest.  I will try your suggestion with the Malaysians: maybe they have the knack!  8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 19, 2018, 01:08:04 PM
I have been trying for years to like his Third Symphony!  His first two are wonderful, but so far I just find very little of interest.  I will try your suggestion with the Malaysians: maybe they have the knack!  8)

Same here. For my ears the No. 3 is not at the same level of the first 2 symphonies (including Antar), but again, I must revisit it to make a better idea of it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on December 19, 2018, 02:12:57 PM
Same here. For my ears the No. 3 is not at the same level of the first 2 symphonies (including Antar), but again, I must revisit it to make a better idea of it.

So this afternoon I listened to the Svetlanov performance on YouTube, which also offered the score.   The first two movements have what Schoenberg might term "inferior material," despite the Scherzo in 5/4.  The slow movement has a much more interesting main theme, and offers more in developing it.  The Finale... not the best, but it beats the first two movements.

I will still give it another chance with the Malaysians!  0:)   But I am thinking the fault is not in the performances, but in the score itself.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: OrchestralNut on December 19, 2018, 02:54:22 PM
Had another listen just now to the 'Christmas Eve Suite' and wonder to myself why I haven't listened to it more often.  Really enjoyed, and especially the absolutely wonderful Polonaise movement.  :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Roasted Swan on December 19, 2018, 03:50:43 PM
Had another listen just now to the 'Christmas Eve Suite' and wonder to myself why I haven't listened to it more often.  Really enjoyed, and especially the absolutely wonderful Polonaise movement.  :)

the whole opera is a gem
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Jo498 on December 20, 2018, 01:31:26 AM
I am only very superficiously acquainted with the Opera, but the suite is my favorite of all Rimsky suites with opera extracts. It certainly deserved more popularity. The polonaise is as good as the far more famous one from Tchaikovsky's Onegin.
(I rather dislike the frequent use of an orchestrated version of Chopin's A major Polonaise for the opening of festive dances etc. they should use Onegin or the Rimsky instead.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on December 20, 2018, 05:50:17 AM
Same here. For my ears the No. 3 is not at the same level of the first 2 symphonies (including Antar), but again, I must revisit it to make a better idea of it.

The one problem with the 3rd Symphony that has probably prevented it from gaining popularity is that the first movement is the weakest, IMO at least. I do agree that it’s not as strong as the 2nd Symphony (Antar), which is an undoubted masterpiece. I must admit I don’t know the 1st Symphony yet.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on January 20, 2020, 10:08:17 AM
Goes straight to the top of my list of favourite Scheherazade recordings (first CD release). Markevitch was a great conductor (Rimsky, Stravinsky, Honegger) and a composer of considerable interest ('Icarus'):
(http://)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
I was going through some of my collection the other night and I ran across this:



I’m definitely going to have to dig back into Rimsky-Korsakov again. I also have Järvi’s set of the symphonies on DG plus many, many recordings of Scheherazade. I know Rimsky-Korsakov wrote a lot of operas, but I have less interest in those works and will probably just stick with the opera suites recording from Järvi on Chandos.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 11, 2020, 10:11:43 PM
I was going through some of my collection the other night and I ran across this:



I’m definitely going to have to dig back into Rimsky-Korsakov again. I also have Järvi’s set of the symphonies on DG plus many, many recordings of Scheherazade. I know Rimsky-Korsakov wrote a lot of operas, but I have less interest in those works and will probably just stick with the opera suites recording from Järvi on Chandos.
He was my first favourite composer, before VW and well before Miaskovsky. I don't listen to the operas either but love old recordings by Ansermet of the suites. Favourites orchestral works are Christmas Eve, Mlada, Sadko, Russian Easter Festival Overture, Tsar Sultan and Antar
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 05:22:02 AM
He was my first favourite composer, before VW and well before Miaskovsky. I don't listen to the operas either but love old recordings by Ansermet of the suites. Favourites orchestral works are Christmas Eve, Mlada, Sadko, Russian Easter Festival Overture, Tsar Sultan and Antar

Would you say he’s still one of your favorite composers, Jeffrey? I’ll have to check out those recordings of Ansermet, but I really need to get to that Svetlanov box set soon.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2020, 06:38:51 AM
Would you say he’s still one of your favorite composers, Jeffrey? I’ll have to check out those recordings of Ansermet, but I really need to get to that Svetlanov box set soon.
No, I wouldn't say that John but I have never lost my admiration for him and continue to enjoy his music. I forgot to mention another favourite, the wonderfully titled 'Invisible City of Kitezh'.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 06:48:50 AM
No, I wouldn't say that John but I have never lost my admiration for him and continue to enjoy his music. I forgot to mention another favourite, the wonderfully titled 'Invisible City of Kitezh'.

Very nice, Jeffrey. Truth be told, I like Rachmaninov, Glazunov, Mussorgsky, Lyadov and Borodin more than Rimsky-Korsakov if we’re talking about the Russian Romantics, but, like you, I admire much of his work.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 12, 2020, 11:01:05 AM
Good to see this composer is getting more attention lately. One of his hidden gems, IMO, is the String Sextet in A major. In fact, his chamber music is rarely commented.

(https://img.discogs.com/Bg_-osvajfNqRgjntBNZb58pazY=/fit-in/600x531/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8689423-1489333849-3994.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Cato on June 12, 2020, 11:27:59 AM
Would you say he’s still one of your favorite composers, Jeffrey? I’ll have to check out those recordings of Ansermet, but I really need to get to that Svetlanov box set soon.

No, I wouldn't say that John but I have never lost my admiration for him and continue to enjoy his music. I forgot to mention another favourite, the wonderfully titled 'Invisible City of Kitezh'.

Yes, Rimsky-Korsakov is an all-around fave!  And his operas are all marvelous, especially The Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya!

Here is a rarity: the enigmatic and powerful At the Tomb...


https://www.youtube.com/v/Xgy7x91sbLo
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 11:33:00 AM
Good to see this composer is getting more attention lately. One of his hidden gems, IMO, is the String Sextet in A major. In fact, his chamber music is rarely commented.

(https://img.discogs.com/Bg_-osvajfNqRgjntBNZb58pazY=/fit-in/600x531/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8689423-1489333849-3994.jpeg.jpg)

I haven’t seen this one before, Cesar. Looks interesting. I might have to investigate. You’re right in that Rimsky-Korsakov’s chamber music doesn’t get mentioned much, but given his fastidious and opulent approach to orchestration, it’s no a wonder that it tends to get overlooked. [Think Respighi, Strauss, etc. --- all composers who wrote a fair amount of chamber music that doesn’t get mentioned enough.]
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Yes, Rimsky-Korsakov is an all-around fave!  And his operas are all marvelous, especially The Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya!

Here is a rarity: the enigmatic and powerful At the Tomb...


https://www.youtube.com/v/Xgy7x91sbLo

Ah yes, that work At the Tomb is in that Svetlanov set I own. 8)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2020, 12:19:40 PM
Yes, Rimsky-Korsakov is an all-around fave!  And his operas are all marvelous, especially The Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya!

Here is a rarity: the enigmatic and powerful At the Tomb...


https://www.youtube.com/v/Xgy7x91sbLo
What an impressive work! I don't think that I've heard it before. It sounded more like Liadov to me. Thanks very much for posting it Leo.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 12:28:25 PM
What an impressive work! I don't think that I've heard it before. It sounded more like Liadov to me. Thanks very much for posting it Leo.

You don’t own Svetlanov’s Rimsky-Korsakov box set, Jeffrey? :o
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2020, 12:37:02 PM
You don’t own Svetlanov’s Rimsky-Korsakov box set, Jeffrey? :o
No, I don't John  ???
A panicky search of the internet, however, reveals that 'At the Tomb' is available on an old Olympia CD - not cheap however.
And here he is:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov:

and here he is again with Stravinsky on the left and his son-in-law Maximilian Steinberg (standing):
(http://)
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 01:30:39 PM
No, I don't John  ???
A panicky search of the internet, however, reveals that 'At the Tomb' is available on an old Olympia CD - not cheap however.
And here he is:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov:

and here he is again with Stravinsky on the left and his son-in-law Maximilian Steinberg (standing):
(http://)

That is rather surprising, Jeffrey. I bought the Rimsky-Korsakov Svetlanov set back in 2010 according to my Amazon order history. There’s also this newer reissued set, but it’s missing the 5th disc from the set I have, which contains a few of those opera suites:

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on June 12, 2020, 07:25:52 PM
Good to see this composer is getting more attention lately. One of his hidden gems, IMO, is the String Sextet in A major. In fact, his chamber music is rarely commented.

(https://img.discogs.com/Bg_-osvajfNqRgjntBNZb58pazY=/fit-in/600x531/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8689423-1489333849-3994.jpeg.jpg)

Indeed, a fine work! I’m surprised it’s never been paired with the Tchaikovsky Souvenir de Florence either on disc or in concert, at least to my knowledge. I need to investigate the Quintet for Piano & Winds and the Piano Trio. He also has a couple string quartets (!) that have been recorded, but I haven’t heard very good things about them...

Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 13, 2020, 07:15:57 PM
Indeed, a fine work! I’m surprised it’s never been paired with the Tchaikovsky Souvenir de Florence either on disc or in concert, at least to my knowledge. I need to investigate the Quintet for Piano & Winds and the Piano Trio. He also has a couple string quartets (!) that have been recorded, but I haven’t heard very good things about them...



That CD of the SQs looks intriguing. I don't know them either.

I've heard his Piano Trio and Quintet for piano and winds, but they didn't do much for me. The Trio sounded rather prosaic IIRC, and the Quintet was pleasant enough, but nothing else.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: relm1 on June 14, 2020, 05:21:20 AM
My favorite of his operas is the Golden Cockerel.  So evocative and you can really see how influential the French had become to the Russians at this time and how Stravinsky would almost immediately take the reigns from where Rimsky-Kosakov left off with The Firebird. 

This is the CD release I have of the complete opera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJnAkpqVDcc

But I also enjoy the very fine suite as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbW12kX6kEQ
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: kyjo on June 14, 2020, 08:14:45 AM
My favorite of his operas is the Golden Cockerel.  So evocative and you can really see how influential the French had become to the Russians at this time and how Stravinsky would almost immediately take the reigns from where Rimsky-Kosakov left off with The Firebird. 

This is the CD release I have of the complete opera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJnAkpqVDcc

But I also enjoy the very fine suite as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbW12kX6kEQ

I only know the suite, which is very evocative indeed and quite forward-looking. It definitely shows a more advanced approach to harmony than his more famous earlier works and you’re quite right about it “paving the way” for The Firebird.
Title: Re: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)
Post by: tarkosale on August 02, 2020, 11:12:17 AM
I did an edited version of the Third Symphony that takes out a lot of what I felt were "not so good" parts of movements 1-3.  I don't think you can tell where I made the edits.  The link is here if anyone is interested.
  https://youtu.be/O89CjYdiv5A