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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on April 20, 2007, 11:24:15 PM

Title: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2007, 11:24:15 PM
I think that The Planets (which I like) has been both a blessing and curse for Holst, as its popularity has led to all his other (very fine) music being overshadowed.  So, I thought I'd start a thread on this topic.

His early "Cloud Messenger" has some quite beautiful (almost minimalist) sounding passages which I find very moving..  Other favourites are The Choral Symphony, Egdon Heath, Perfect Fool ballet music (haunting slow movement), band suites, Hammersmith (band and orchestral versions), Choral Fantasia, Psalm 86 (on that fine CD with Finzi's Dies Natalis), Hymn of Jesus, Somerset Rhapsody etc.

I think that Holst was a composer of great originality whose comparatively early death, whilst at the height of his powers, was a great loss to British music (although not as much a tragedy as the death of George Butterworth in World War One).

Any opinions?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: knight66 on April 21, 2007, 12:14:32 AM
I find it difficult to get much out of his music. One piece I do like, Planets apart, is Savitri, a chamber opera in one act. Almost minimalist, it is pared down in every sense. There are just three characters and it has some beautiful vocal writing and creates an otherworldly atmosphere.

The classic version is conducted by Holst's daughter Imogen. Janet Baker, Robert Tear and Thomas Helmsly are the singers, EMI.

It is partnered with some of his Vedic Hymns....here I altogether part company with him, drippy stuff.

Mike
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 21, 2007, 01:27:39 AM
I find it difficult to get much out of his music. One piece I do like, Planets apart, is Savitri, a chamber opera in one act. Almost minimalist, it is pared down in every sense. There are just three characters and it has some beautiful vocal writing and creates an otherworldly atmosphere.

The classic version is conducted by Holst's daughter Imogen. Janet Baker, Robert Tear and Thomas Helmsly are the singers, EMI.

It is partnered with some of his Vedic Hymns....here I altogether part company with him, drippy stuff.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

I think that I have a CD of Savitri, so I must listen to it!

regards

Jeffrey
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on April 21, 2007, 02:16:09 AM
His early "Cloud Messenger" has some quite beautiful (almost minimalist) sounding passages which I find very moving..  Other favourites are The Choral Symphony, Egdon Heath, Perfect Fool ballet music (haunting slow movement), band suites, Hammersmith (band and orchestral versions), Choral Fantasia, Psalm 86 (on that fine CD with Finzi's Dies Natalis), Hymn of Jesus, Somerset Rhapsody etc.

Again, your verdict is perfect (it could have been mine :-) ) and agree with everything you write - all the pieces you mention are among the very best by Holst.

I would perhaps consider The Hymn of Jesus his masterpiece, as it is as easily accessible as The Planets and yet contains some of the other sides of Holst as well. Other, 'minor' favourites of mine would also include the Invocation for Cello and Orchestra, the Beni Mora Suite, the Lyric Movement, the ballet music for The Lure (in part almost as succesful as the Perfect Fooll ballet music), the Scherzo from his unfinished final symphony (I think that Holst was very much in the process of discovering another major style of his own in the year of his sudden death) and even the funny Capriccio (the Jazz Band Piece in the orchestral version by Imogen Holst).

And of course many choral songs, as e.g. the entirely beautiful setting of 'This have I done for my true love'.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: hornteacher on April 21, 2007, 03:11:27 AM
I'll mention the Saint Paul's Suite which is a very popular Holst work.  It was named after the Girls School in which Holst taught and uses the elements of English folk songs that pervades his other work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on April 21, 2007, 03:16:39 AM
I'll mention the Saint Paul's Suite which is a very popular Holst work.  It was named after the Girls School in which Holst taught and uses the elements of English folk songs that pervades his other work.

Of course! If you warm to this more 'popular' side of Holst, you might be equally interested in later, no less succesful attempts in the same direction:
* Brook Green Suite for strings
* A Moorside Suite - in the version for strings (beautiful, impressive Nocturne!)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 21, 2007, 02:34:30 PM
Again, your verdict is perfect (it could have been mine :-) ) and agree with everything you write - all the pieces you mention are among the very best by Holst.

I would perhaps consider The Hymn of Jesus his masterpiece, as it is as easily accessible as The Planets and yet contains some of the other sides of Holst as well. Other, 'minor' favourites of mine would also include the Invocation for Cello and Orchestra, the Beni Mora Suite, the Lyric Movement, the ballet music for The Lure (in part almost as succesful as the Perfect Fooll ballet music), the Scherzo from his unfinished final symphony (I think that Holst was very much in the process of discovering another major style of his own in the year of his sudden death) and even the funny Capriccio (the Jazz Band Piece in the orchestral version by Imogen Holst).

And of course many choral songs, as e.g. the entirely beautiful setting of 'This have I done for my true love'.

I forgot Beni Mora and Invocation, which are two of my favourites.  Thanks for reminding me:-)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: tjguitar on April 21, 2007, 06:01:05 PM
I Like his St Paul's Suite
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 21, 2007, 06:18:32 PM
Well, can't add much to the discussion @ this point - the only other CD (besides 'The Planets') that I have of Holst's music is shown below - single CD w/ Hickox conducting on the Chandos label; Amazon listing of works HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Holst-St-Pauls-Suite-Gustav/dp/B000000AUH/ref=sr_1_1/103-4191504-6570256?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177211487&sr=1-1) w/ a few brief comments; I've not listen to this CD in a while, but enjoyed the works & the performances - not sure 'how much' more is really available; will look forward to more comments -  :)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/517QYTTKE2L._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: sound67 on April 22, 2007, 01:48:26 AM
For non-Planets Holst, no greater disc than this one:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)

Boult endows, in particular, the Beni Mora Suite with a power and edge no other conductor does - revealing it to be another masterpiece.

Thomas
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on April 22, 2007, 04:46:16 AM
For non-Planets Holst, no greater disc than this one:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)
Boult endows, in particular, the Beni Mora Suite with a power and edge no other conductor does - revealing it to be another masterpiece.  Thomas 

That's the one I mean! It even contains the only available (or am I mistaken?) recording of the Japanese Suite, that im some respects (orchestration mainly, not in it's musical content) sounds as a first announcement of the coming into being of The Planets.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: johnQpublic on April 22, 2007, 05:54:16 AM
My favs:

Beni Mora Suite

Egdon Heath

Short Festival Te Deum

and since I was raised as a band person

Military Band Suites
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 22, 2007, 06:59:55 AM
For non-Planets Holst, no greater disc than this one:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)

Boult endows, in particular, the Beni Mora Suite with a power and edge no other conductor does - revealing it to be another masterpiece.

Thomas - thanks for the above recommendation - I see no 'overlap' w/ the disc shown in my post - Holst wrote more 'non-Planets' music than I realized!  Will add to my 'wish list' -  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 22, 2007, 07:57:43 AM
For non-Planets Holst, no greater disc than this one:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)

Boult endows, in particular, the Beni Mora Suite with a power and edge no other conductor does - revealing it to be another masterpiece.

Thomas


Agreed+The Cloud Messenger

Jeffrey
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Hector on April 23, 2007, 05:01:15 AM
I heard part of Nicholas Braithwaite's Lyrita disc on R3 and ordered it promptly.

It contains some Holst not generally available on disc in superb performances.

I cannot fault Holst's immediate impact.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 19, 2007, 07:40:28 AM
Thomas - thanks for the above recommendation - I see no 'overlap' w/ the disc shown in my post - Holst wrote more 'non-Planets' music than I realized!  Will add to my 'wish list' -  :)

Well, finally acquired the disc below - listened to it this morn' & certainly agree w/ all of the previous posts - great start for a non-Planets Holst collection!  :)

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: tjguitar on May 19, 2007, 07:47:41 AM
Lyrita has 3 other discs as well:

(http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0210.jpg) (http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0209.jpg) (http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0223.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Greta on May 31, 2007, 03:48:12 PM
Holst has many great works beside The Big One. :D I really enjoy his ballet music like The Perfect Fool, Suite de Ballet (some outstanding melodies here!), and The Lure. Great fun, quite clever.  His band suites of course, I was raised on and are still wonderful, extremely cohesive. Hammersmith, also in band version was a work I knew of early.

Recently I'm trying to get into his choral work and it is just a goldmine. Currently I adore the dreamy, forward-looking Cloud Messenger, which I knew almost nothing of before joining GMG  :o And of course, Hymn of Jesus, everyone should hear these to see what a versatile NON one-hit wonder Holst was. Savitri and The Dream-City are quite interesting too.

I have a question:

I'm looking for texts for The Cloud Messenger and Hymn of Jesus, I got both of them from an online music store (Hickox, LSO) so I don't have liner notes. I looked a little for them on the internet but didn't come up with anything yet...anyone know where I could find his texts?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 31, 2007, 10:11:55 PM
Holst has many great works beside The Big One. :D I really enjoy his ballet music like The Perfect Fool, Suite de Ballet (some outstanding melodies here!), and The Lure. Great fun, quite clever.  His band suites of course, I was raised on and are still wonderful, extremely cohesive. Hammersmith, also in band version was a work I knew of early.

Recently I'm trying to get into his choral work and it is just a goldmine. Currently I adore the dreamy, forward-looking Cloud Messenger, which I knew almost nothing of before joining GMG  :o And of course, Hymn of Jesus, everyone should hear these to see what a versatile NON one-hit wonder Holst was. Savitri and The Dream-City are quite interesting too.

I have a question:

I'm looking for texts for The Cloud Messenger and Hymn of Jesus, I got both of them from an online music store (Hickox, LSO) so I don't have liner notes. I looked a little for them on the internet but didn't come up with anything yet...anyone know where I could find his texts?

If you ask Chandos nicely they might send you the booklets (they did for me when I ordered a second hand set of Nielsen symphonies from amazon marketplace which did not include the booklet). Alternatively I'm happy to photocopy them for you myself if you let me have an address to send them to)

Jeffrey
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Ephemerid on February 07, 2008, 04:29:07 PM
I just downloaded the St. Paul's Suite-- delightful music!  I have no idea why I decided to do this, just out of the blue LOL

My only previous exposure to Holst has been, of course, The Planets.  But I will definitely have to investigate more of his stuff now...

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on February 16, 2008, 12:47:53 PM
I just downloaded the St. Paul's Suite-- delightful music!  I have no idea why I decided to do this, just out of the blue LOL
My only previous exposure to Holst has been, of course, The Planets.  But I will definitely have to investigate more of his stuff now...   

To quote myself once again: if you warm to this more 'popular' side of Holst, you might be equally interested in later, no less succesful attempts in a similar vein (as the St Paul's Suite):
* Brook Green Suite for strings
* A Moorside Suite - in its version for strings, with its beautiful Nocturne
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: pjme on February 17, 2008, 02:28:24 PM
There is indeed some very personal music - apart from The planets.

Most interesting/great works have been mentioned. The Hymn of Jesus is, also for me, possibly Holst's masterpiece.

I have a weak spot for the very refined 7 partsongs, for women's voices and strings. ( An older version with imogen Holst/The Holst singers on Decca and Hickocx ( London ...) on EMI)

Seven Part-Songs, H162:

1.Say Who Is This?
2. O Love, I Complain 
3. Angel Spirits Of Sleep
4. When First We Met 
5. Sorrow And Joy 
6. Love On My Heart From Heaven Fell 
7. Assemble, All Ye Maidens 
The poems by Robert Bridges are lovely - very "Fin de siècle"..The last one ,'Assemble all ye maidens" is like a musical version of an Art Nouveau / Pre Rafaelite painting.

I suppose that lovers of Wagner and Bruckner should stay away however....

Peter

 
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 18, 2008, 04:41:15 AM
The Hymn of Jesus is wonderful.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on February 23, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
I have a weak spot for the very refined 7 partsongs, for women's voices and strings. ( An older version with imogen Holst/The Holst singers on Decca and Hickocx ( London ...) on EMI)


I think the recording by the Holst Singers on Hyperion is worth trying: the young voices are much closer to the kind of voices Holst was writing for, and the effect is quite different: emotionally more restrained and yet all the more poignant for that IMHO.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 15, 2008, 05:11:00 AM
I have been reading this thread with interest. I love much of Holst's music, but a lot of the 'lighter' works leave me a little cold - stuff like The St Paul's Suite...

Being a cellist I of course love and have played Invocation (one wishes that he had composed a concerto...). Other pieces that I love are Egdon Heath, Ballet Music from the Perfect Fool, Savitri, Hammersmith, Lyric Movement, Hymn of Jesus, Seven Partsongs and the Somerset Rhapsody. I was also amazed at the textures he created with Terly Terlow for SATB with Oboe and Cello. Am I missing any important works? I have heard very little of the songs for choir or solo, and neither have I hear any of the operas besides the wonderful Savitri. The Cloud Messenger looks promising, and I am interested in the Japanese Suite - what's that like?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on May 15, 2008, 06:46:18 AM
I have been reading this thread with interest. I love much of Holst's music, but a lot of the 'lighter' works leave me a little cold - stuff like The St Paul's Suite...

Being a cellist I of course love and have played Invocation (one wishes that he had composed a concerto...). Other pieces that I love are Egdon Heath, Ballet Music from the Perfect Fool, Savitri, Hammersmith, Lyric Movement, Hymn of Jesus, Seven Partsongs and the Somerset Rhapsody. I was also amazed at the textures he created with Terly Terlow for SATB with Oboe and Cello. Am I missing any important works? I have heard very little of the songs for choir or solo, and neither have I hear any of the operas besides the wonderful Savitri. The Cloud Messenger looks promising, and I am interested in the Japanese Suite - what's that like?

Not quite sure what the 'lighter' works are to which you are referring but the Japanese Suite would definitely enter into that category-good fun but atypical Holst.

I love Holst's evocative, exotic Oriental Suite 'Beni Mora' although, again, it is relatively early Holst and not at all representative of the sparer, more austere later music like 'Egdon Heath'. I would strongly recommend the Scherzo for Orchestra(all that remains of a planned symphony) and the Double Concerto for Two Violins and small orchestra amongst the orchestral works. 'The Cloud Messenger' is a very fine choral piece but my favourite(apart from the 'Hymn of Jesus') is the quite remarkable Choral Fantasia, a work of late mystical spirituality which never fails to make an awe-inspiring impression on me.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 15, 2008, 11:07:11 AM
Not quite sure what the 'lighter' works are to which you are referring but the Japanese Suite would definitely enter into that category-good fun but atypical Holst.

I love Holst's evocative, exotic Oriental Suite 'Beni Mora' although, again, it is relatively early Holst and not at all representative of the sparer, more austere later music like 'Egdon Heath'. I would strongly recommend the Scherzo for Orchestra(all that remains of a planned symphony) and the Double Concerto for Two Violins and small orchestra amongst the orchestral works. 'The Cloud Messenger' is a very fine choral piece but my favourite(apart from the 'Hymn of Jesus') is the quite remarkable Choral Fantasia, a work of late mystical spirituality which never fails to make an awe-inspiring impression on me.

I've just discovered that I have the Choral Fantasia so I will give that a listen, and I have the double violin concerto which I quite like. I have not heard the Scherzo - sounds interesting. Cheers.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 15, 2008, 11:14:49 AM
Does anyone have any opinions on the following pieces:

Ballets:
The Lure (1921)
The Golden Goose Op. 45 No.1 (1926)
The Morning of the Year Op. 45 No.2 (1926-27)

Chamber:
Phantasy Quartet on British Folksongs

Operas:
The Perfect Fool Op. 39 (1918-22)
At the Boar's Head Op. 42 (1924)
The Wandering Scholar Op. 50 (1929-30)

First Choral Symphony Op. 41 (1923-24)
and any other choral/vocal works.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on May 15, 2008, 01:49:24 PM
Does anyone have any opinions on the following pieces:

Ballets:
The Lure (1921)
The Golden Goose Op. 45 No.1 (1926)
The Morning of the Year Op. 45 No.2 (1926-27)

Chamber:
Phantasy Quartet on British Folksongs

Operas:
The Perfect Fool Op. 39 (1918-22)
At the Boar's Head Op. 42 (1924)
The Wandering Scholar Op. 50 (1929-30)

First Choral Symphony Op. 41 (1923-24)
and any other choral/vocal works.

Sorry, me again!

Regarding the Ballets which you mention-

The music for "The Lure" is pretty short-available on Lyrita SRCD 209 conducted by David Atherton-and, although mature Holst, is relatively minor. That same CD also contains the Dances from "The Morning of the Year" but the entire Choral Ballet is coupled on a Hyperion CD with "The Golden Goose" with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Hilary Davan Wetton. That CD-CDA66784-may no longer be easily available. It also contained the early and somewhat immature "King Estmere" for chorus and orchestra.

I have to say that the Hyperion performances are a bit less than the best possible representation of either of the choral ballets(the Guildford Choral Society is weak at times) but I really do not think that either work is a masterpiece. Interesting pieces but certainly no match-in my opinion-for either the Hymn of Jesus or the Choral Fantasia.

The Choral Symphony is and odd work-very impressive in parts and with considerable beauty but with some weakness as well. Worth hearing certainly although I do prefer Vaughan Williams' large choral works.

I should leave others to comment on the operas!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2008, 01:46:06 AM
"The Cloud Messenger" is interesting. It has a beautiful proto-minimalist section which I never tire of hearing.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on May 17, 2008, 06:41:21 AM
Does anyone have any opinions on the following pieces:

Ballets:
The Lure (1921)
The Golden Goose Op. 45 No.1 (1926)
The Morning of the Year Op. 45 No.2 (1926-27)

Chamber:
Phantasy Quartet on British Folksongs

Operas:
The Perfect Fool Op. 39 (1918-22)
At the Boar's Head Op. 42 (1924)
The Wandering Scholar Op. 50 (1929-30)

First Choral Symphony Op. 41 (1923-24)
and any other choral/vocal works.

The Lure (1921) - there's a splendid recording conducted by David Atherton (Lyrita). The ballet is clearly by the same composer who wrote The Planets and Perfect Fool, with a wonderful opening built from fifths: very simple but magical. Holst wrote the ballet in some haste, and one of its dances is clearly derived from a dance in the Japanese Suite, but still I think a very enjoyable piece.

The Golden Goose Op. 45 No.1 (1926) - there's an abbreviated version of this 'choral ballet', sans voices, conducted by Imogen Holst (Lyrita again) which is quite charming. But I think the complete version on Hyperion shows the true character of the piece - more fun and a greater sense of warmth, somehow. Yes, the Guildford Choral Society is rather rough and ready, but that seems quite appropriate for a work originally written for school children and amateur musicians.

The Morning of the Year Op. 45 No.2 (1926-27) - another 'choral ballet', which again (and more definitely) works better in its original version rather than the cold and lifeless hacked-up remains conducted by Atherton (on Lyrita, coupled with 'The Lure'). ie try the Hyperion recording for this.

The Wandering Scholar Op. 50 (1929-30) - a short but sweet opera. There's a superb recording with Norma Burrowes as the central character, Alice, and Michael Langdon as the lustful Father Philippe on EMI conducted by Steuart Bedford. Actually I think it's my favourite of the Holst operas - the story is light (about Alice trying to have a bit on the side while her husband is out on an errand) but charmingly done.

The Perfect Fool Op. 39 (1918-22) - this has never been recorded, except for the colourful and fun ballet music. I've only seen a vocal score and its a bizarre but deliberate mish-mash of styles (a bit of substandard Donizetti, a touch of Wagner, some angular Holst) which seems to be on one level a piss-take of certain cliches of opera, and on the other a strange, Symbolist work (perhaps in the same spirit as Prokofiev's Love for Three Oranges, albeit not in the same musical style). I'd be delighted to hear or see this properly performed.

At the Boar's Head Op. 42 (1924) - This work has grown on me: there's an excellent recording by Atherton on EMI. Good humoured rather than bawdy in style, which I think has put some people off. But Prince Hal (sung by Philip Langridge) comes across as rather insufferable, which is quite appropriate.

First Choral Symphony Op. 41 (1923-24) - again this is a work which has grown on me, but even the best recording of this - conducted by Adrian Boult (EMI) - is rather too sober and misses a degree of the wild strangeness that (to me at least) the music suggests.

The one other choral work I'd warmly recommend is Ode to Death - an ecstatic, at times almost Delian work which was excellently recorded by the London Symphony Chorus with the London Philharmonic conducted by Charles Groves (*much* better than the Hickox version on Chandos).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 18, 2008, 03:06:44 PM
Thanks very much Pierre and Dundonnell. I love reading posts from people who really know about a composer - as Sean has said in the past getting the complete view, with all its flaws is often very rewarding. I will certainly look into more of this stuff... Have been listening to Savitri and the Hymn of Jesus alot recently, it's just superb stuff.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 20, 2008, 03:44:04 PM
Pierre - I have followed up on a lot of these. The Wandering Scholar performed by Burrowes is out of print, and horrendously expensive on Amazon used and new. Is the Ingrid Attrot, Northern Sinfonia, Richard Hickox worth hearing?

EDIT: Just found it for a reasonable price on itunes.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on June 03, 2008, 05:07:25 AM
OK so I have recieved most of the CDs now... My admiration for Holst grown even more - The Cloud Messenger, The Lure, Ode to Death - all great works. When do you think that Holst's mature period starts? Planets its clearly mature with all its harmonic adventurousness etc. The Invocation sounds like it could be either, but I love it so I say its late! The later stuff I generally love, whereas the earlier stuff is a bit more hit and miss. I really like Indra and the Cotswolds Symphony, but don't like the Song of the Night as much.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on June 03, 2008, 07:07:52 AM
OK so I have recieved most of the CDs now... My admiration for Holst grown even more - The Cloud Messenger, The Lure, Ode to Death - all great works. When do you think that Holst's mature period starts? Planets its clearly mature with all its harmonic adventurousness etc. The Invocation sounds like it could be either, but I love it so I say its late! The later stuff I generally love, whereas the earlier stuff is a bit more hit and miss. I really like Indra and the Cotswolds Symphony, but don't like the Song of the Night as much.

Anything written after Holst was 30, ie after 1904, is usually considered 'mature Holst', so the Cotswolds Symphony(1900) and Indra(1903) would be early Holst. So too would be A Winter Idyll(1897), Overture 'Walt Whitman'(1899), Suite de Ballet(1900), 'Indra'(1903), 'King Estmere'(1903).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 03, 2008, 07:16:23 AM
Excellent and very informative thread! I know a few things by Holst that I like very much - 'Perfect Fool', 'Brook Green' suite, 'Planets', 'Ode to Death'... But there is so much more I'll have to explore!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2008, 10:02:07 AM
Excellent and very informative thread! I know a few things by Holst that I like very much - 'Perfect Fool', 'Brook Green' suite, 'Planets', 'Ode to Death'... But there is so much more I'll have to explore!

Try  "The Cloud Messenger", there are some lovely moments in it. Also, Egdon Heath and Hammersmith, Somerset Rhapsody, The Hymn Of Jesus, if you don't already know them. His music is overshadowed by "The Planets" (which I like).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 04, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
Try  "The Cloud Messenger", there are some lovely moments in it. Also, Egdon Heath and Hammersmith, Somerset Rhapsody, The Hymn Of Jesus, if you don't already know them. His music is overshadowed by "The Planets" (which I like).

I know Egdon Heath very well, the Hymn of Jesus I heard only once, and the other pieces are just names. It's good to have music to look forward to!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on October 09, 2008, 12:50:30 PM
'The Cloud Messenger' is a very fine choral piece but my favourite(apart from the 'Hymn of Jesus') is the quite remarkable Choral Fantasia, a work of late mystical spirituality which never fails to make an awe-inspiring impression on me.

I'm giving this message a bump as I wanted to second Dundonnell's enthusiasm for the Choral Fantasia - an extraordinarily powerful and consoling work, I think. Imogen Holst's recording is the one to get on EMI. I'm also astonished that I made no mention of this work when I last posted here.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 10, 2008, 11:30:35 AM
I'm giving this message a bump as I wanted to second Dundonnell's enthusiasm for the Choral Fantasia - an extraordinarily powerful and consoling work, I think. Imogen Holst's recording is the one to get on EMI. I'm also astonished that I made no mention of this work when I last posted here.

I agree. I first came accross it decades ago on a great EMI LP with Finzi's Dies Natalis (Best ever version with Wilfrid Brown and Christopher Finzi) and with a fine Psalm arrangement also by Holst. His "other work" should be much better known but it is all over-shadowed by the popularity of The Planets.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Superhorn on October 11, 2008, 06:43:29 AM
    Holst's "A Choral Symphony" is well-worth hearing, and uses poetry by Keats and others. I got to know it many years ago on an EMI LP with Boult and the LPO, and a soprano soloist whose name I can't remember.

  It deserves to be reissued, and perhaps Richard Hickox could do it for Chandos; this would be right up his alley.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on October 11, 2008, 07:53:50 AM
I agree. I first came accross it decades ago on a great EMI LP with Finzi's Dies Natalis (Best ever version with Wilfrid Brown and Christopher Finzi) and with a fine Psalm arrangement also by Holst. His "other work" should be much better known but it is all over-shadowed by the popularity of The Planets.

(From Sweden) I first came across these performances on a World Record Club LP. Now that really does date me :(
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on October 11, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
    Holst's "A Choral Symphony" is well-worth hearing, and uses poetry by Keats and others. I got to know it many years ago on an EMI LP with Boult and the LPO, and a soprano soloist whose name I can't remember.

  It deserves to be reissued, and perhaps Richard Hickox could do it for Chandos; this would be right up his alley.

The soprano soloist was Felicity Palmer, nowadays a mezzo-soprano. It's a pretty fine recording, though I happen to know that Hickox is indeed planning to record the work with the BBC National Orchestra & Chorus of Wales.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on October 11, 2008, 09:45:14 AM
(From Sweden) I first came across these performances on a World Record Club LP. Now that really does date me :(

Same here, though I don't feel so 'dated'! (Possibly that's because I was handed this by doting parents who knew I liked the Planets when I was not yet five years old!)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 15, 2009, 12:14:01 PM
The soprano soloist was Felicity Palmer, nowadays a mezzo-soprano. It's a pretty fine recording, though I happen to know that Hickox is indeed planning to record the work with the BBC National Orchestra & Chorus of Wales.

I've been warned not to post on this topic because it hasn't been touched for at least 120 days! Poor Holst. Anyway, I've had an EMI Classics CD (The Hymn of Jesus and the Choral Symphony) in my grubby mitts for a decade or so. The Hymn I loved immediately and have played frequently. The Symphony I haven't touched years. I honestly can't remember anything about it. I'm not sure, and I'm embarrassed to admit this, if I even played it all the way to the end. But I read somewhere recently somebody claiming that the Symphony is Holst's masterpiece. So I'm going to give it another go right now. If I've suddenly seen the light, I'll come back and post in about 45 minutes.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 15, 2009, 02:36:08 PM
I've been warned not to post on this topic because it hasn't been touched for at least 120 days! Poor Holst. Anyway, I've had an EMI Classics CD (The Hymn of Jesus and the Choral Symphony) in my grubby mitts for a decade or so. The Hymn I loved immediately and have played frequently. The Symphony I haven't touched years. I honestly can't remember anything about it. I'm not sure, and I'm embarrassed to admit this, if I even played it all the way to the end. But I read somewhere recently somebody claiming that the Symphony is Holst's masterpiece. So I'm going to give it another go right now. If I've suddenly seen the light, I'll come back and post in about 45 minutes.

I like the Choral Symphony. "Masterpiece" is a subjective concept I think but I'll look forward to hearing what you say. As the person who started the thread I'm pleased that you revived it from cyber-space hibernation! One of Richard Hickox's last recordings was a Chandos CD of lesser-known Holst which i have much enjoyed. it also includes what I believe to be the best version of the better known 'Perfect Fool' ballet music, which is one of my favourite scores by Holst - especially the poetic central movement.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Benji on February 15, 2009, 03:07:46 PM
I like the Choral Symphony. "Masterpiece" is a subjective concept I think but I'll look forward to hearing what you say. As the person who started the thread I'm pleased that you revived it from cyber-space hibernation! One of Richard Hickox's last recordings was a Chandos CD of lesser-known Holst which i have much enjoyed. it also includes what I believe to be the best version of the better known 'Perfect Fool' ballet music, which is one of my favourite scores by Holst - especially the poetic central movement.

Emphatically seconded!

I also love The Lure. That disc is truly awesome, a fitting tribute to Richard Hickox. It think it really is the FIRST disc somebody looking for non-planets Holst should pick up!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NLohiOLtL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dax on February 15, 2009, 03:16:51 PM
No apologies for giving the thumbs up to what many may regard as a trifle, even if intriguing: the 2 movement Terzetto for flute, oboe and viola. Each instrument has a different key signature . . .
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 16, 2009, 01:51:10 AM
I enjoyed the Choral Symphony and there were some amazing, ear-catching stretches here and there. I still prefer the Hymn, but I look forward to giving the Symphony another go soon, especially the Ode on a Grecian Urn. According to the CD notes, Boult's 1974 recording was the first made, which seems extraordinary.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 16, 2009, 04:38:14 AM
I enjoyed the Choral Symphony and there were some amazing, ear-catching stretches here and there. I still prefer the Hymn, but I look forward to giving the Symphony another go soon, especially the Ode on a Grecian Urn. According to the CD notes, Boult's 1974 recording was the first made, which seems extraordinary.

Yes, I remember it appearing on LP in my youth! Do you know 'The Cloud Messenger'? It contains some wonderful music - some of which seems to anticipate minimalism.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 17, 2009, 12:00:04 PM
Yes, I remember it appearing on LP in my youth! Do you know 'The Cloud Messenger'? It contains some wonderful music - some of which seems to anticipate minimalism.

I've not heard this piece, although I remember a recording being issued with some fanfare a decade or so ago. Was it one of those long-delayed premiere recordings? Are there a few recordings to choose from now, and if so, which would you recommend?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 17, 2009, 01:21:08 PM
I've not heard this piece, although I remember a recording being issued with some fanfare a decade or so ago. Was it one of those long-delayed premiere recordings? Are there a few recordings to choose from now, and if so, which would you recommend?

No, only the Hickox version but it was issued again on an inexpensive double CD. You will end up with the Hymn of Jesus twice, but it will be worth it I think:

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 20, 2009, 02:20:45 AM
You will end up with the Hymn of Jesus twice, but it will be worth it I think:



Three times; I've also got the version on Decca coupled with Britten's recording of Gerontius. But that's no problem, given that I've completely lost count of the recordings I have of Mahler symphonies and Stravinsky's Rite.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 20, 2009, 06:06:30 AM
Three times; I've also got the version on Decca coupled with Britten's recording of Gerontius. But that's no problem, given that I've completely lost count of the recordings I have of Mahler symphonies and Stravinsky's Rite.

Oh, that's nothing. I have about 20 recordings of Walton's First Symphony  :o
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on February 20, 2009, 08:16:58 AM
Oh, that's nothing. I have about 20 recordings of Walton's First Symphony  :o

Madness! Sheer Madness!

I bet that Katy doesn't know that ;D ;D
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 20, 2009, 10:18:38 AM
Madness! Sheer Madness!

I bet that Katy doesn't know that ;D ;D

How did you know that Colin? You must be a clairvoyant  :o spooky  8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 20, 2009, 01:46:46 PM
Oh, that's nothing. I have about 20 recordings of Walton's First Symphony  :o

Blimey, have there even been 20(-ish) recordings of Walton's First?!?! I've got three (Litton, Mackerras and a BBC mag freebie jobby from well over a decade ago, forget who, must dig it out). Going way off topic now, but you started it; what's your fave recording of Walton's First? I'm still finding my way with that piece and am always ready to take advice.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Benji on February 20, 2009, 02:58:11 PM
Blimey, have there even been 20(-ish) recordings of Walton's First?!?! I've got three (Litton, Mackerras and a BBC mag freebie jobby from well over a decade ago, forget who, must dig it out). Going way off topic now, but you started it; what's your fave recording of Walton's First? I'm still finding my way with that piece and am always ready to take advice.

I can't get enough of The Philharmonia's blistering account under Haitink! It's really something special - really put me under a spell the last few days.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on February 20, 2009, 04:50:16 PM
Blimey, have there even been 20(-ish) recordings of Walton's First?!?! I've got three (Litton, Mackerras and a BBC mag freebie jobby from well over a decade ago, forget who, must dig it out). Going way off topic now, but you started it; what's your fave recording of Walton's First? I'm still finding my way with that piece and am always ready to take advice.

This is the second time that discussion of Walton's First Symphony has intruded into a thread about a completely different composer ;D ;D Still...it IS a great symphony :)

I find that I have five versions of the Walton 1st: Sir Adrian Boult, Andre Previn, Simon Rattle, Paul Daniel and the BBC disc you referred to(Tadaaki Otaka). Of these the Previn still takes some beating!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 21, 2009, 05:46:02 AM
Sorry about Walton intrusion but here goes, I have recordings by
Boult
Harty
Sargent
Previn x 2
Mackerras
Handley x 2
Walton x 3
Haitink
Thomson
Rattle
Leaper
Karajan
Litton
Slatkin
Colin Davis
Ashkenazy

That is 20 and there may be others I have forgotten about (Daniel on Naxos, Marriner, Fremaux - that makes 23  :o)

My favourites: Walton with the New Zealand SO recorded in 1964 is very good as is the old Boult and Sargent and even older Harty (1930s). I like Ashkenazy, Haitink, Fremaux and Thomson - all excellent. I much prefer Previn's later 'Homeric' (according to Rob Barnett) version with the RPO than the much-praised LSO version.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: MDL on February 21, 2009, 03:16:49 PM
Sorry about Walton intrusion but here goes, I have recordings by
Boult
Harty
Sargent
Previn x 2
Mackerras
Handley x 2
Walton x 3
Haitink
Thomson
Rattle
Leaper
Karajan
Litton
Slatkin
Colin Davis
Ashkenazy

That is 20 and there may be others I have forgotten about (Daniel on Naxos, Marriner, Fremaux - that makes 23  :o)

My favourites: Walton with the New Zealand SO recorded in 1964 is very good as is the old Boult and Sargent and even older Harty (1930s). I like Ashkenazy, Haitink, Fremaux and Thomson - all excellent. I much prefer Previn's later 'Homeric' (according to Rob Barnett) version with the RPO than the much-praised LSO version.

Karajan recorded Walton's First?! What band/label? Not that I'm going to rush out to buy it; I'm just a bit surprised.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on February 21, 2009, 04:10:12 PM
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Walton1_4574332.htm

Yick - look at his requirements for conducting the Philharmonia.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Benji on February 21, 2009, 05:27:27 PM
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Walton1_4574332.htm

Yick - look at his requirements for conducting the Philharmonia.

A slightly late April fool's joke methinks...  ;)

(p.s. As someone who prides himself on good photoshopping, I must say that made-up cover is sloppy and amateur)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Benji on February 21, 2009, 05:31:23 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DHER1P0CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

But Karajan did record Walton's 1st ...I think this is the actual disc.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on February 21, 2009, 06:04:46 PM
Yes I found that one too... I assumed that this was an excerpt off it. Obviously it was joke now that I think about it! I'm gulliable as hell.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 22, 2009, 01:33:14 AM
Yes, there is the Music Web April fool (Boulez conducting Vaughan Williams is another one) but there is a real Karajan version as shown above. The performance is excellent in my view - and I am no fan of Karajan (good rhyme  8)) except his Honegger Symphony No 3, which is IMHO the best version by far.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on February 22, 2009, 04:12:35 PM
Can I just say something?

GUSTAV HOLST  ;D
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Benji on February 22, 2009, 04:17:03 PM
Can I just say something?

GUSTAV HOLST  ;D

I wonder what recording of Walton's 1st Holst would have liked. Discuss.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on July 27, 2009, 09:33:21 AM
Did anyone here go to the performance of Holst's Choral Symphony at the BBC Proms last night? Here's a link (alas, only audible for UK residents AFAIK):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00lslr6/BBC_Proms_2009_Part_1
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Tapkaara on July 27, 2009, 10:18:02 AM
Holst is one of my favorite composers.

I love the Invocation for Cello and Orchestra. Egdon Heath has almost a Sibelian austerity to it that I find suits my tastes.

His tone poem Indra is also pretty good stuff. It's in a lighter, more "cinematic" vein, with similarities to the the out-going nature of the Planets, which is indeed one of my favorite orchestral works.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 27, 2009, 02:01:08 PM
Well, my most recent Holst addition to my collection is the one below of his daughter, Imogen - Fanfare review quoted below (probably illegally -  ;)) - nice recording!  :)

Quote
Imogen Holst’s life (1907–1984) matched talent and intelligence to sacrifice. A beautiful girl and a promising pianist, she’s best know for her apparently selfless devotion to two men, her father Gustav, whose work she edited and criticized objectively (maybe too stringently at times), and Benjamin Britten. I first learned the rudiments of music from her excellent book, The ABC of Music. She was a first-class writer on many musical topics, and a challenging, inspirational teacher at all levels. She was also an outstanding conductor (hear her marvelous Lyrita CDs), when English ladies didn’t often do that. Holst represents the ethos of an era and a sympathetic, penetrating, no-nonsense approach to music, which we’ve now lost. We’ve no current equivalent to her.

Perhaps most important, she was a fine composer, and here, at last, is a full disc of her own music. The works range from 1928 to 1982, and they are mostly and determinedly individual. The slight exception is the early 10-minute Phantasy Quartet, a Cobbett prize piece. It is highly attractive, but quite close to Ravel. It’s still one of the better Cobbett pieces. Two years on, Holst, while influenced by her father’s aesthetic, was secure in her own idiom, and the Sonata for Violin and Cello from 1930 turns the tables on any notion that she was influenced by Britten. At times, it could be one of his much later chamber works, with a dash of the pastoral. The sparse beauty of the Adagio must be unique in English music of the time, while the restrained Presto vanishes like mist. The 1944 Trio is still more individual, starting and ending with an Andante movement, enclosing a passionate Lento, and another evanescent Presto. It’s an emotionally questioning, probing compositional idiom that still manages to stop at the exact moment it’s said what needs saying. Textures are precise and starkly memorable. Much to learn, here, for today’s school of garrulity composers, of neo-Romantic cut.

The extreme beauty of the Fall of the Leaf variations for solo cello (1962) contrasts with the drier viola and piano Duo (1968) and does not prepare you for the scale and range of the late Quintet from 1982. It still lasts only a quarter hour, and is audibly the work of the composer of the Phantasy Quartet from half a century earlier. The Quintet ends with a relatively extended and spare-textured Theme and Variations. You need to hold your breath so as not to disturb its still, harmonic progress. There’s a whiff of Vaughan Williams; then it just disappears like childhood. This is deeply affecting music.

No problems with the sound, or the performances, from a talented British group. A mandatory purchase for lovers of English music. Paul Ingram



(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/578407241_72FMK-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Häuschen on November 09, 2009, 03:39:18 PM
Apologies if this has been asked before, but did Holst do the wind band orchestration for the Moorside Suite or did someone else orchestrate it?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: listener on November 09, 2009, 04:57:49 PM
agreed: The Hymn of Jesus is one of the great 20th century choral works  (Tovey has an excellent analysis of it)

Holst's music for wind has been mentioned in passing.   The Two Suites have some great recordings and used to be repertoire staples when schools had music departments.    Telarc recorded them as one of their first digital releases. On LP they were a major test for tracking, on CD they are a terrific demo of woofer power.   
The CD seems to be in print still
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
Can I just say something?

GUSTAV HOLST  ;D

What about: Gustav VON Holst ?  ;)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Häuschen on November 10, 2009, 12:09:52 PM
agreed: The Hymn of Jesus is one of the great 20th century choral works  (Tovey has an excellent analysis of it)

Holst's music for wind has been mentioned in passing.   The Two Suites have some great recordings and used to be repertoire staples when schools had music departments.    Telarc recorded them as one of their first digital releases. On LP they were a major test for tracking, on CD they are a terrific demo of woofer power.   
The CD seems to be in print still

I have that LP actually, which still sounds fantastic.  Well, with a little googling I turned up "In 1927 Holst was commissioned to write a competition piece for the BBC and the National Brass Band Festival Committee. The result was The Moorside Suite."

Guess that solves it!

I have great memories of playing the piece with my college band back in undergrad.  I was second chair trumpet, so lost out on the great solos, but the first chair guy had a silkier tone than I could muster.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Guido on May 04, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
I am always surprised when I come back to Holst - despite it all seeming so conventional and safe on the surface, there's always so much atmosphere and character, achieved with the simplest means. Quite disarming often - the essentially edwardian language paired down to its essentials, sometimes to the point of starkness, spiced with mysticism and folk song, all coloured by a gentle luminosity, a beautiful softness - such a distinctive and subtle voice.

I just adore his lyric movement  for viola and orchestra - his completed last work - there is no sign that his ability was fading at this stage and one feels that he would only have moved onto ever subtler and rarefied reimaginings of his delicate and personal compositional palette.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Teresa on June 24, 2010, 05:26:03 PM
For non-Planets Holst, no greater disc than this one:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/boult_holst.jpg)

Boult endows, in particular, the Beni Mora Suite with a power and edge no other conductor does - revealing it to be another masterpiece.

Thomas
One of my favorites as well.  All the Holst Lyrita recordings are excellent IMHO.

I just discovered this thread, however Holst is one of my composers, my favorite compositions are the Japanese Suite, Beni Mora and the two Suites for Band.

Here is my collection of his music:

HOLST, GUSTAV (1874-1934)
  Beni Mora - Oriental Suite, Op. 29, No. 1 (1910)
  Fugal Overture, Op. 40, No. 1 (1922)
  Hammersmith - Prelude and Scherzo, Op. 52 (1930)
    Boult, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Indra, Symphonic Poem, Op. 13 (1903)
    McAslan, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Japanese Suite, Op. 33 (1915)
    Boult, London Symphony [MP3] Lyrita 
  The Lure: Ballet music from the Opera (1921)
    Hickox, BBC National Orch. of Wales [SACD] Chandos
  A Moorside Suite (1928)
    Braithwaite, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  The Morning of the Year: Dances, Op. 45 (1927)
    McAslan, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  The Perfect Fool: Ballet, Op. 39 (1922)
    Hickox, BBC National Orch. of Wales [SACD] Chandos
  The Planets, Op. 32 (1916)
    Elder, Halle Orchestra and Choir [SACD] Hyperion
  Sita - Interlude from Act III, Op. 23 (1906)
    McAslan, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Somerset Rhapsody, Op. 21, No. 2 (1907)
    Boult, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Suite de Ballet In E Flat Op.10
    Braithwaite, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Suite No. 1 in E Flat for Band, Op. 28 No. 1 (1909)
  Suite No. 2 in F for Band, Op. 28 No. 2 (1911)
    Fennell, Cleveland Symphonic Winds [SACD] Telarc 
  Symphony in F “The Cotswolds”, Op. 8 (1900)
    McAslan, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  Walt Whitman Overture Op.7 (1899)
    Braithwaite, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita 
  A Winter Idyll (1897)
    McAslan, London Philharmonic [MP3] Lyrita

 
Title: New Holst documentary by Tony Palmer
Post by: Pierre on April 24, 2011, 01:29:29 AM
British readers here may be interested to know that there's a Tony Palmer documentary on Holst tonight on BBC Four, 9.30. Not sure how informative and accurate it will be, but might be at least provocative and interesting. Would be nice to discuss afterwards, too.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: klingsor on April 24, 2011, 07:14:32 AM
Thanks for that reminder, I look forward to seeing the documentary


Also, BBC3 has Holst as Composer of the Week starting tomorrow (25 April 2011)

Info here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010gmxb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010gmxb)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on April 25, 2011, 12:21:26 AM
Who saw the Tony Palmer documentary? And was anyone else annoyed by how Palmer kept on using an actress who sounded almost, but not quite, like Imogen Holst for some of the voice-overs when he wanted to slip in some not quite accurate but racy information about his subject (e.g. that Holst "stayed" in a notorious street of prostitutes while taking a holiday in Algeria)? A pity, because it had some very interesting ideas, and some pretty good performances of (sadly chopped and shaped) extracts from his music.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 03, 2011, 08:20:26 AM
Who saw the Tony Palmer documentary? And was anyone else annoyed by how Palmer kept on using an actress who sounded almost, but not quite, like Imogen Holst for some of the voice-overs when he wanted to slip in some not quite accurate but racy information about his subject (e.g. that Holst "stayed" in a notorious street of prostitutes while taking a holiday in Algeria)? A pity, because it had some very interesting ideas, and some pretty good performances of (sadly chopped and shaped) extracts from his music.

Recorded it on BBC 4 a couple of days ago but only watched the first few minutes so far.  He did something similar with the voice over on his Vaughan Williams documentary, with a narrator who sort-of sounded like Vaughan Williams, only it wasn't Vaughan Williams.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 04, 2011, 06:41:41 AM
I'll be watching it in a few days' time. Someone has uploaded it...


http://xhgc18.blogspot.com/2011/04/holst-in-bleak-midwinter.html (http://xhgc18.blogspot.com/2011/04/holst-in-bleak-midwinter.html)


Edit: It's gone!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: John Whitmore on September 02, 2011, 11:43:44 PM
I come in peace from the Havergal Brian forum. Here's something that may interest you:
Here's the last Hattoff LP. A Holst Centenary from 1974. It includes Music for the Masque, Alcestis of Euripides and a talk by Imogen Holst. I understand that this was a limited edition recording produced for St. Paul's School. Steve thinks there were around 200 made but I can't confirm this one way or the other. Here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?15lb1hy34e49o
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on September 04, 2011, 06:15:07 AM
I come in peace from the Havergal Brian forum. Here's something that may interest you:
Here's the last Hattoff LP. A Holst Centenary from 1974. It includes Music for the Masque, Alcestis of Euripides and a talk by Imogen Holst. I understand that this was a limited edition recording produced for St. Paul's School. Steve thinks there were around 200 made but I can't confirm this one way or the other. Here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?15lb1hy34e49o

Thanks for this - listening to Imogen Holst's talk now (oh how stilted she sounds! But I guess that reflects her background).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 06:30:02 AM
Who saw the Tony Palmer documentary? And was anyone else annoyed by how Palmer kept on using an actress who sounded almost, but not quite, like Imogen Holst for some of the voice-overs when he wanted to slip in some not quite accurate but racy information about his subject (e.g. that Holst "stayed" in a notorious street of prostitutes while taking a holiday in Algeria)? A pity, because it had some very interesting ideas, and some pretty good performances of (sadly chopped and shaped) extracts from his music.

I recorded it off the TV but haven't watched it yet.  He did much the same with the Vaughan Williams documentary, in that he used an actor (for much of the autobiographical commentary) who sounded like Vaughan Williams - many of the reviews assumed that it was Vaughan Williams, which was extremely misleading.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: eyeresist on September 04, 2011, 03:07:50 PM
I recorded it off the TV but haven't watched it yet.  He did much the same with the Vaughan Williams documentary, in that he used an actor (for much of the autobiographical commentary) who sounded like Vaughan Williams - many of the reviews assumed that it was Vaughan Williams, which was extremely misleading.

I don't mind the soundalike voiceover - it's a standard documentary device. But I think Palmer's work has been overrated, due to classical fans being pathetically grateful for anything at all in this vein.
 
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on September 04, 2011, 03:18:11 PM
I don't mind the soundalike voiceover - it's a standard documentary device. But I think Palmer's work has been overrated, due to classical fans being pathetically grateful for anything at all in this vein.

I think that you are absolutely correct in this!

I used to admire Palmer's work, probably for the very reason you adduce, but now in retrospect the more I think about both the VW and Holst films the less I like them.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about RVW's sex life ::)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: eyeresist on September 04, 2011, 04:43:30 PM
I think that you are absolutely correct in this!

Thank you for pandering to my ego! :)

Unless a composer's sex life is especially important to the music, or else spectacular (Goossens!), it is pretty much a bore to hear about.
 
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 05, 2011, 07:52:22 AM
The man and woman in the street can't empathise with a composer's stylistic or structural problems, it can with his sexual ones (if there are any). It 'humanises' the composer... I think it trivialises him.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: karlhenning on September 05, 2011, 07:54:18 AM
I need to give The Hymn of Jesus a fresh listen.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 10, 2011, 02:34:51 PM
I surely agree, the rest of Holst's compositions is not as appreciated as it would deserve, althought they're really beautiful.

Apart from the Planets, which I extremely love, I like the Somerset Rhapsody, the Suites for Military Band, The Cloud Messenger, First Choral Symphony, St Paul's Suite Op.29 No.2, The Wandering Scholar and Hammersmith, Prelude and Scherzo.

For Holst's music, you can take a look at this channel on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/13Orcun (http://www.youtube.com/user/13Orcun)

Ilaria
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Muzition on September 12, 2011, 05:33:13 PM
I played "Hammersmith" in wind band and fell in love with it.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 24, 2011, 08:14:54 AM
I played "Hammersmith" in wind band and fell in love with it.

How beautiful, Hammersmith is really good!!

Ilaria
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: The new erato on September 24, 2011, 09:00:25 AM
Savitri was the work thet really opened my ears to Holst.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on September 24, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
I surely agree, the rest of Holst's compositions is not as appreciated as it would deserve, althought they're really beautiful.

Apart from the Planets, which I extremely love, I like the Somerset Rhapsody, the Suites for Military Band, The Cloud Messenger, First Choral Symphony, St Paul's Suite Op.29 No.2, The Wandering Scholar and Hammersmith, Prelude and Scherzo.

For Holst's music, you can take a look at this channel on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/13Orcun (http://www.youtube.com/user/13Orcun)

Ilaria

The Cloud Messenger has some wonderful - almost minimalist, sections. It is a moving work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on November 28, 2011, 04:33:52 PM
The Cloud Messenger has some wonderful - almost minimalist, sections. It is a moving work.

I agree - I was listening to this just the other day. I know this is corny, but the brass writing reminded me so much of certain John Williams film scores (for some reason particularly from that minimalist bit where the cloud reaches the 'snowy peaks of the Himalayas') which I'm a sucker for... and yes, I know who was there first!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 29, 2011, 09:49:24 AM
I am certainly very keen to explore more in to Holst's output, obviously because of 'The Planets', which is a work I really love, but also because of my recent hearing of the 'Perfect Fool Suite', which was spectacular!

Shall be exploring more Holst soon, and will report back... :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 29, 2011, 01:00:08 PM
I am certainly very keen to explore more in to Holst's output, obviously because of 'The Planets', which is a work I really love, but also because of my recent hearing of the 'Perfect Fool Suite', which was spectacular!

Shall be exploring more Holst soon, and will report back... :)

Try 'The Cloud Messenger', 'Egdon Heath' 'Hammersmith' and the 'Lyric Movement for Viola' - they are all great.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 29, 2011, 01:04:35 PM
Try 'The Cloud Messenger', 'Egdon Heath' 'Hammersmith' and the 'Lyric Movement for Viola' - they are all great.

Thank you for the suggestions - shall take a listen to all of these very soon. I imagine I'll be entering a Holst phase any time soon! ;)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Lisztianwagner on November 29, 2011, 01:08:10 PM
Try 'The Cloud Messenger', 'Egdon Heath' 'Hammersmith' and the 'Lyric Movement for Viola' - they are all great.

"A Somerset Rhapsody", "A Choral Fantasia" and "St. Paul's Suite" as well, all definitely beautiful.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 29, 2011, 01:10:19 PM
"A Somerset Rhapsody", "A Choral Fantasia" and "St. Paul's Suite" as well, all definitely beautiful.

Thank you Ilaria - I think I heard a part of the Choral Fantasia before, it sounded amazing, so I shall definitely listen to it in full sometime. :) Hope you are well Ilaria, have a nice evening!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on November 29, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
Holst is a composer I could just never get into. I find his music to be rather drab and ho-hum most of the time. I do like The Planets, but even I tire of this work, which is why I seldom listen to it. Egdon Heath is a good piece, but I don't really have time for Holst these days.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 29, 2011, 01:23:07 PM
Holst is a composer I could just never get into. I find his music to be rather drab and ho-hum most of the time. I do like The Planets, but even I tire of this work, which is why I seldom listen to it. Egdon Heath is a good piece, but I don't really have time for Holst these days.

Dude, bad form to post in a composer thread to the effect of "yawn!" ; )

"A Somerset Rhapsody", "A Choral Fantasia" and "St. Paul's Suite" as well, all definitely beautiful.

I was going to ask if you meant the Choral Symphony, but I see now that there is a Fantasy, too, How do you like the Ch S?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Lisztianwagner on November 29, 2011, 01:38:42 PM
I was going to ask if you meant the Choral Symphony, but I see now that there is a Fantasy, too, How do you like the Ch S?

Yes, I meant the Choral Fantasia before; I also adore the Choral Symphony though, it's a stunning and impressive piece.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on December 02, 2011, 09:14:14 AM
Dude, bad form to post in a composer thread to the effect of "yawn!" ; )

I was going to ask if you meant the Choral Symphony, but I see now that there is a Fantasy, too, How do you like the Ch S?

Agreed. Sorry to butt in (I know you weren't asking me) but in my opinion the Choral Fantasia is a masterpiece - very pithy, disturbing yet beautiful, whereas the Choral Symphony is perhaps a rather looser-limbed work with wonderful moments but short of being a consummate masterpiece. So do try the Choral Fantasia if you don't know it.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 02, 2011, 10:32:28 AM
I don't know it, so thanks for the rec!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on December 02, 2011, 11:44:58 AM
Exciting news is the release of a recording of The Coming of Christ, a mystery play from 1927, the same year that saw Egdon Heath.

It was written in commission for Canterbury Cathedral, and I was hardly aware of it - so far it was just an entry in Imogen Holst's Catalogue of her father's compositions. Apparently, it was never performed after Holst himself conducted it in Canterbury Cathedral in 1928, with his St. Paul's Girl's School and pupils from Morley College. It was only resurrected at the The English Music Festival in 2010 and recorded after.

It appears to be mature Holst and I really look forward to people's findings here. I don't think I read a review so far, but I didn't really try hard to find one. Anyone?

                        (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517QbKl18OL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on December 03, 2011, 07:57:11 AM
Exciting news is the release of a recording of The Coming of Christ, a mystery play from 1927, the same year that saw Egdon Heath.

It was written in commission for Canterbury Cathedral, and I was hardly aware of it - so far it was just an entry in Imogen Holst's Catalogue of her father's compositions. Apparently, it was never performed after Holst himself conducted it in Canterbury Cathedral in 1928, with his St. Paul's Girl's School and pupils from Morley College. It was only resurrected at the The English Music Festival in 2010 and recorded after.

It appears to be mature Holst and I really look forward to people's findings here. I don't think I read a review so far, but I didn't really try hard to find one. Anyone?

                        (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517QbKl18OL._SS400_.jpg)

Johan,


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Nov11/Holst_Christ_EMRCD004.htm
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Brian on December 03, 2011, 08:13:20 AM
Quote
The Ulster Orchestra entered into an exciting new relationship with Naxos in October with the recording of a CD of lesser-known music by Gustav Holst. Under its new principal conductor JoAnn Falletta, the orchestra has committed to a multi-year recording relationship with Naxos.

The first CD, which was recorded at the orchestra’s historic Ulster Hall on October 11 and 12, will include five important Holst works, including his beautiful Cotswolds Symphony, the Japanese Suite, the Walt Whitman Overture and the first uncut recordings of A Winter Idyll and Indra.

The Symphony, written during 1899 and 1900, is an evocative landscape portrait of the beautiful English countryside, and is highlighted by the emotional and deeply felt slow movement, an elegy to the memory of William Morris. Unperformed in Holst’s lifetime, his Winter Idyll shows evidence of Holst’s admiration for Wagner and other Germanic composers, along with his musical debt to his teacher Charles Stanford. Holst was passionately interested in the culture and mythology of India, and his Indra (Indra being the ancient Hindu god of rain and storm) displays brilliant orchestral writing in a warmly vibrant work that expresses the god’s battle with the drought. Many British composers admired the mystical poetry of Walt Whitman, and Holst honored him in his Walt Whitman Overture composed seven years after the poet’s death.

Holst’s Japanese Suite, written at a later period in his life, was composed at the request of the Japanese dancer Michio Ito for his performance at the London Coliseum. Ito provided Holst with some authentic Japanese melodies as a basis for the work. It opens with a striking cadenza for solo bassoon, and betrays telling fingerprints of The Planets, which Holst had just completed.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on December 03, 2011, 08:25:44 AM


So the performances on the Lyrita disc of the Winter Idyll and Indra, edited by Colin Matthews, were cut. Lewis Foreman's cd booklet notes do not make that clear.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on December 04, 2011, 03:44:33 PM
So the performances on the Lyrita disc of the Winter Idyll and Indra, edited by Colin Matthews, were cut. Lewis Foreman's cd booklet notes do not make that clear.

Hmm - I fear Colin Matthews is increasingly appearing to be some kind of Procrustes when it comes to Holst's music: he hacked 'The Lure' and the early Wind Quintet before they got recorded. I'll certainly be looking forward to the Naxos recording.

I enjoyed The Coming of Christ, but can't say I was very taken by Robert Hardy's narrations. Still, I guess it might be possible to programme the player to skip those bits!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2011, 07:37:10 AM
Yes, I meant the Choral Fantasia before; I also adore the Choral Symphony though, it's a stunning and impressive piece.
I was enjoying that last night. Wonderful music. Maybe it does have some less inspired moments,but to be honest,whatever they are,I didn't notice them & they certainly didn't bother me.I certainly prefer it to 'The Planets' (Holst's acoustic recording is my favourite!),which I do actually like.Well,I hope so. I have umpteen recordings of it.
I thought the Hyperion recording was awful. Apart from the general dreariness of the performance,I had to fiddle around with the volume controls;the balance was all wrong. Either it was the singer or the choir. (Their recording of VW's 'Hugh the Drover' was another clunker!) The Boult is the one to have!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 16, 2011, 07:40:44 AM
We're singing some (non-Planets Holst) on Christmas Eve, apparently : )
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on December 16, 2011, 09:13:25 AM
The Choral Fantasia is a work of pure, utter, unadulterated genius ;D

Janet Baker, English Chamber Orchestra(Imogen Holst) is THE version. I got it first on LP more years ago now than I care to remember. It still sends shivers down my spine :)

At his very best Holst demonstrated a capacity to conjure up pure transcendental magic which few other composers ever equalled. If Holst was not necessarily a genius he still produced works of genius.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on December 16, 2011, 11:23:24 AM
If Holst was not necessarily a genius he still produced works of genius.

 ::) 8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on December 16, 2011, 11:43:17 AM
At his very best Holst demonstrated a capacity to conjure up pure transcendental magic which few other composers ever equalled. If Holst was not necessarily a genius he still produced works of genius.

Very interesting, Colin. Holst certainly conjured much magic in his work.

Was wondering if you could all help me choose some Holst recordings to add to my collection (please ;) ), as at the moment the only Holst recordings I own are of the Planets, I think.... here are some I was thinking about....



Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 16, 2011, 11:49:49 AM
Very interesting, Colin. Holst certainly conjured much magic in his work.

Was wondering if you could all help me choose some Holst recordings to add to my collection (please ;) ), as at the moment the only Holst recordings I own are of the Planets, I think.... here are some I was thinking about....


I don't know the others, but this one is excellent!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on December 16, 2011, 11:57:28 AM
The cds you illustrated all contain much wonderful music and are excellent choices in respect of interpretation and performance.

The version of the Choral Fantasia I mentioned is coupled with that beautiful and wonderful work by Gerald Finzi "Dies Natalis" and is another I would recommend with all possible enthusiasm:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Composers-Finzi-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B000005GSD/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1324065278&sr=1-3

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on December 16, 2011, 12:00:12 PM
.....and Yes that Naxos disc with Beni Mora-a fantastic piece-is an excellent one :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2011, 12:00:51 PM
Thank you Ilaria - I think I heard a part of the Choral Fantasia before, it sounded amazing, so I shall definitely listen to it in full sometime. :) Hope you are well Ilaria, have a nice evening!
I remember listening to that tune in the 'Somerset rhapsody' and thinking,that's the one Maddy Prior sings on my Steeleye Span record (Below the salt)! :)
(A folk rock band for those who don't know!)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
The cds you illustrated all contain much wonderful music and are excellent choices in respect of interpretation and performance.

The version of the Choral Fantasia I mentioned is coupled with that beautiful and wonderful work by Gerald Finzi "Dies Natalis" and is another I would recommend with all possible enthusiasm:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Composers-Finzi-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B000005GSD/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1324065278&sr=1-3
Hm! I've bought quite a few things off that seller!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on December 16, 2011, 12:08:46 PM
Thank you for the feedback. The Naxos cd I shall definitely get hold of then. Lloyd Jones' recording of The Planets is excellent, one of my favourites.
Thank you for the other recommendation, Colin. As I also love that Finzi piece, I shall definitely pick up this cd at some point as well.

Thank you again! :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 16, 2011, 12:16:28 PM
You didn't have it on your list, but this one is fantastic too...

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on December 16, 2011, 12:41:44 PM
You didn't have it on your list, but this one is fantastic too...



Thank you - the brass band suites are wonderful works so wouldn't mind having this recording in my collection! :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 16, 2011, 12:43:47 PM
What, you don't listen to the woodwinds in the band there? ; )
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: madaboutmahler on December 16, 2011, 12:47:48 PM
What, you don't listen to the woodwinds in the band there? ; )

Silly me! My mind was not working for a few seconds there.... and don't forget the percussion either Karl!

I correct myself:
Thank you - the suites are wonderful works so wouldn't mind having this recording in my collection! 
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Brian on April 30, 2012, 02:12:35 PM
Coming in June:

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/naxos8572914.jpg)

A few of these works have appeared on Lyrita, and Chandos/Andrew Davis and Adrian Boult have done the Japanese suite, but definitely a collection-gap-filler. And a pretty cover to boot!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Philoctetes on April 30, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
Holst is easily one of my favorite composers:

http://www.youtube.com/v/c_RlvDi6Uxc
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on April 30, 2012, 03:20:37 PM
Coming in June:

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/naxos8572914.jpg)

A few of these works have appeared on Lyrita, and Chandos/Andrew Davis and Adrian Boult have done the Japanese suite, but definitely a collection-gap-filler. And a pretty cover to boot!

It will be interesting to hear whether JoAnn Falletta-a conductor I have a lot of time for-makes the Cotswolds Symphony sound more convincing than did Douglas Bostock on the old Classico disc. Apart from the Japanese Suite(1915) these are all early works and cannot be said to be echt-Holst
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Scion7 on April 30, 2012, 04:28:32 PM
Was there anything particularly bad or wrong with the Bostock version of Opus 8?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2012, 09:51:01 AM
I've always been fascinated by Holst's work Egdon Heath. Holst considered this work to be one of his best.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Scion7 on May 01, 2012, 11:54:09 AM
Holst was a composer whose music I hadn't collected outside of "The Planets" - now I've got quite a few of his works and like it - especially after he came out from the Wagner-obsession and found his own sound.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dundonnell on May 01, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
Was there anything particularly bad or wrong with the Bostock version of Opus 8?

No, nothing, apart from the fact that the Munich Symphony Orchestra is not exactly the best German orchestra ;D. I kind of doubt whether anyone can make the Cotswold Symphony sound other than a pretty tame piece.......but I shall be delighted to be proved wrong :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Hattoff on May 01, 2012, 11:28:33 PM
Although conventional for it's time the Cotswold Symphony does contain first rate melodic material. If it had been written by any of his contemporaries the work would be rated more highly, but most compare it to the Planets and it can't stand up to that.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Scion7 on May 02, 2012, 12:03:06 AM
If anyone owns a Holst biography that has a decent sized picture of his wife, please scan/post it.  All I can find on the web are two very small photos of her.  Imogen is a different story ...
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on May 02, 2012, 02:54:54 AM
No, nothing, apart from the fact that the Munich Symphony Orchestra is not exactly the best German orchestra ;D. I kind of doubt whether anyone can make the Cotswold Symphony sound other than a pretty tame piece.......but I shall be delighted to be proved wrong :)
Off topic,I know;but in their defence,I DO rather like their interpretation of Bax's Sixth. Not perhaps the greatest,but 'different',in a good way :D & I wish they could have done a bit more (No 1,or,2,say?)!

NB:The more continental (and US!) orchestra's doing British music,the better!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Leo K. on January 26, 2013, 11:24:38 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ecKztalXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This is a sensational, bang up CD. I remember the St. Paul Suite from my junior high school days, and I've been wanting to hear it again for nostalgia's sake. The other works on the disk are new to me too, but radiant and beautiful.

Need to hear more non-planets Holst.

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on January 26, 2013, 09:00:39 PM
Need to hear more non-planets Holst.

Definitely listen to Egdon Heath at some point. Holst considered this his finest orchestral work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Octave on March 15, 2013, 03:29:08 AM
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, can any GMG Holstians give me an idea of the overall quality of this EMI collection from last summer?  I do remember these recordings of "Psalm 86" and "A Choral Fantasia" being praised in this thread.  I was looking at this as a very nice dose of the man's output; I'm also probably going to check out THE CLOUD MESSENGER on Chandos.



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Id%2BQCbBIL.jpg)

A kind Amazon reviewer also typed out the contents with personnel for each piece, as follows:
Quote
CD 1
The Planets - Suite, Op. 32 / H125 48.33
- - - London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Adrian Boult with Geoffrey Mitchell Choir
The Perfect Fool, Op. 39 / H150 10.42
Egdon Heath, Op. 47 / H172 (Homage to Hardy) 14.45
- - -London Symphony Orchestra / André Previn

CD 2
A Somerset Rhapsody, Op. 21 No. 2 / H87 9.41
Brook Green Suite, H190 6.25
Bournemouth Sinfonietta / Norman del Mar
A Fugal Concerto, Op. 40 No. 2 / H152 8.33
- - -Jonathan Snowden, flute - David Theodore, oboe
- - -English Chamber Orchestra / Yehudi Menuhin
Beni Mora (Oriental Suite), Op. 29 No. 1 / H114 14.09
- - -BBC Symphony Orchestra / Sir Malcolm Sargent
St. Paul's Suite, Op. 29 No. 2 / H118 12.39
- - -Royal Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Malcolm Sargent
Hymns from the Rig Veda - 2nd Group, Op. 26 No. 2 / H98 13.52
- - -London Symphony Chorus, women's voices
Ode to Death, Op. 38 / H144 (Whitman) 11.14
- - -London Symphony Chorus
- - -London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Charles Groves

CD 3
Psalm 86, H117 No. 1 8.00
- - -Ian Partridge, tenor - Ralph Downes, organ
A Choral Fantasia, Op. 51 / H177 17.14
- - -Dame Janet Baker, mezzo-soprano - Ralph Downes, organ
- - -The Purcell Singers
- - -English Chamber Orchestra / Imogen Holst
First Suite in E flat, Op. 28 No. 1 / H105 9.57
Second Suite in F, Op. 28 No. 2 / H106 11.36
Central Band of the Royal Air Force / Imogen Holst
A Moorside Suite, H173 13.55
- - -BMC (Oxford) Band / Imogen Holst
Hammersmith, Op. 52 / H178 13.22
- - -Central Band of the Royal Air Force / Wing Commander J.L. Wallace

CD 4
Hymns from the Rig Veda - 4th Group, Op. 26 No. 4 / H100
III. Hymn to Manas 3.47
The Homecoming, H120 (Hardy) 6.02
- - -Baccholian Singers of London
A Dirge for Two Veterans, H121 (Whitman) 6.15
- - -Baccholian Singers of London
- - -Philip Jones Brass Ensemble / Ian Humphris
Six Choral Folk-Songs (arr.), H136
Six Choruses, Op. 53 / H186 (Medieval Latin, trans. Waddell)
- - -Baccholian Singers of London
- - -English Chamber Orchestra / Ian Humphris
Eight Canons, H187 (Medieval Latin, trans. Waddell)
3. The Fields of Sorrow 1.02
4. David's Lament for Jonathan 1.20
6. Truth of all Truth 3.56
- - -Baccholian Singers of London
Bring us in good ale. Op. 34 No. 4 / H131 (anon) 1.00
- - -The King's Singers
Vedic Hymns - 1st Group, Op. 24 / H90
II. Varuna 3.23
- - -Frederick Harvey, baritone - Gerald Moore, piano
Three Festival Choruses, Op. 36a / H134
II. Turn back O Man (C. Bax) 4.19
- - -Choir of Chichester Cathedral / Richard Seal, organ / John Birch
Lullay my liking. Op. 34 No. 2 / H129 (anon) 3.43
- - -Arranged for boys' voices by Imogen Holst
- - -London Boy Singers / Jonathan Steele
Three Carols / H133
II. Christmas Song: Personent Hodie (Piae Cantiones) 2.40
Bach Choir / Jacques Orchestra / Sir David Willcocks
Hymn: In the bleak mid-winter (English Hymnal, 1906)
(based on poem by Christina Rossetti) 3.57
- - -Rodney Christian Fellowship Festival Choir
- - -Edwin Bates, organ / Rodney Smith Bishton

CD 5
The Hymn of Jesus, Op. 37 / H140
(Apocryphal Acts of St. John, trans. Holst) 22.04
- - -Choristers of St. Paul's Cathedral Choir - London Symphony Chorus
- - -London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Charles Groves
Short Festival Te Deum, H145 4.38
- - -London Symphony Chorus
- - -London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Charles Groves
Choral Symphony, Op. 41 / H155 (Keats) 49.55
- - -Felicity Palmer, soprano - London Philharmonic Choir
- - -London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Adrian Boult

CD 6
The Wandering Scholar, Op. 50 / H176 24.24 Chamber Opera in one act
- - -Louis (a farmer).............................................Michael Rippon, baritone
- - -Alison (his wife..............................................Norma Burrowes, soprano
- - -Father Philippe...........................................- - -Michael Langdon, bass
- - -Pierre (a wandering scholar)....................... Robert Tear, tenor
- - -English Opera Group / English Chamber Orchestra / Steuart Bedford

At the Boar's Head, Op. 42 / H156 51.00 A musical interlude in one act.
- - -Prince Hal............................................... .Philip Langridge, tenor
- - -Falstaff......................................................John Tomlinson, bass
- - -Hostess (Mistress Quickly)..................... ....Elise Ross, soprano
- - -Doll Tearsheet............................................Felicity Palmer, mezzo-soprano
- - -Pistol..........................................................David Wilson-Johnson, baritone
- - -Peto............................................................Peter Hall, tenor
- - -Bardolph.......................... ..........................Richard Suart, baritone
- - -Poins..........................................................Michael George, bass
- - -Men's voices of the Liverpool Philharmonic Choir
- - -Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra / David Atherton
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on March 16, 2013, 02:05:02 AM
I've always been fascinated by Holst's work Egdon Heath. Holst considered this work to be one of his best.

He did. But it isn't. :-)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2013, 12:46:07 AM
Cor, so how many sets of Rig Veda pieces did Holst write? These choruses which we are rehearsing in Framingham are different to any of the settings I find strewn around Recordings-Land. (Which may be why Paul selected them.)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Hattoff on April 10, 2013, 11:41:30 AM
Yes, there is nothing quite like them, they are very beautiful. Try his chamber opera, Savitri.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2013, 11:57:34 AM
Recently I've been enjoying the 'First Choral Symphony' (there was no second one), settings of poems by Keats. Sargent's recording (Intaglio) is the most gripping I have heard, more moving than the much acclaimed Boult version.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Hattoff on April 10, 2013, 09:01:51 PM
I like the Choral Symphony well enough. I had the Boult on LP and currently have the Hilary Davan Wetton, which is okay, but I must try the Sargent. A bit of extra oomph (technical term) would certainly help it.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2013, 10:56:18 PM
I like the Choral Symphony well enough. I had the Boult on LP and currently have the Hilary Davan Wetton, which is okay, but I must try the Sargent. A bit of extra oomph (technical term) would certainly help it.

Yes, for some reason I was much more moved by Sargent's recording.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Dax on December 08, 2013, 12:55:27 PM
Happened to spin Hammersmith today. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on December 08, 2013, 01:09:20 PM
Happened to spin Hammersmith today. Very impressive.

Hammersmith and Egdon Heath are two fine non-Planets Holst works.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Cato on December 08, 2013, 01:43:33 PM
The Walt Whitman Overture and the Scherzo, a late work as part of a planned symphony, are for me the stand-outs on this CD:

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Pierre on December 08, 2013, 02:17:47 PM
The Walt Whitman Overture and the Scherzo, a late work as part of a planned symphony, are for me the stand-outs on this CD:



I rather like the funeral march and the scherzo on the Cotswolds Symphony (not so much the outer movements of that work).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on December 09, 2013, 01:50:32 PM
The Walt Whitman Overture and the Scherzo, a late work as part of a planned symphony, are for me the stand-outs on this CD:



Hope you read the booklet notes!  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Cato on December 09, 2013, 02:59:30 PM
Hope you read the booklet notes!  :)

Oh yes: e.g. Imogen Holst did not care for the Cottswold work much at all!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on December 09, 2013, 03:03:59 PM
Oh yes: e.g. Imogen Holst did not care for the Cottswold work much at all!

Can't blame her! I don't think much of it either.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on July 26, 2015, 10:54:32 AM
Was in Chichester on Friday, so made a point of visiting Holst's grave in the cathedral. Didn't realise that there was a new stone from 2009 quoting a line from the Hymn of Jesus. I took a photo but not sure how to upload. Anyway, you can see it here:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=holst's+grave+chichester&biw=1024&bih=672&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI_uru6cj5xgIVQukUCh3g9gCv#imgrc=hFy3jHexoCvlSM%3A
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on July 26, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
Andrew Davis on Chandos is worth a listen: the Choral Symphony was being recorded by Richard Hickox in Cardiff for the same company in November 2008 when he unexpectedly died.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oefAWMerL._SS280.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on July 28, 2015, 12:44:32 AM
Andrew Davis on Chandos is worth a listen: the Choral Symphony was being recorded by Richard Hickox in Cardiff for the same company in November 2008 when he unexpectedly died.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oefAWMerL._SS280.jpg)

Yes, that is a fine CD.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 28, 2015, 02:17:22 AM

Andrew Davis on Chandos is worth a listen: the Choral Symphony was being recorded by Richard Hickox in Cardiff for the same company in November 2008 when he unexpectedly died.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oefAWMerL._SS280.jpg)

Yes, that is a fine CD.

That is the only recording of The Mystic Trumpeter I have heard.  (And I have no complaint)  8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on July 30, 2015, 02:33:42 AM
Was in Chichester on Friday, so made a point of visiting Holst's grave in the cathedral. Didn't realise that there was a new stone from 2009 quoting a line from the Hymn of Jesus. I took a photo but not sure how to upload. Anyway, you can see it here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=holst's+grave+chichester&biw=1024&bih=672&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI_uru6cj5xgIVQukUCh3g9gCv#imgrc=hFy3jHexoCvlSM%3A

Great to see!

BTW,  has anyone heard the 1916 Fantasia on Hampshire Folk Songs?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Great to see!

BTW,  has anyone heard the 1916 Fantasia on Hampshire Folk Songs?

No, sounds very interesting. Is it available on CD or is it only available on an obscure Latvian LP label in your collection?  8)


Yes, was nice to see the new memorial stone for Holst, which incorporated words from The Hymn of Jesus.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on August 05, 2015, 09:58:15 PM
No, sounds very interesting. Is it available on CD or is it only available on an obscure Latvian LP label in your collection?  8)

Yes, was nice to see the new memorial stone for Holst, which incorporated words from The Hymn of Jesus.  :)

I have the version for strings (arranged by Imogen Holst), the English CO conducted by Norman Del Mar, as a download on my iPad. Probably taken from the Arts-Music Forum.  It is typically 1916 ('mature') Holst and should be recorded. (Listened to it a couple of times here, in the Galilee, on vacation, and don't have my documentation available.)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on August 06, 2015, 11:55:46 AM
I have the version for strings (arranged by Imogen Holst), the English CO conducted by Norman Del Mar, as a download on my iPad. Probably taken from the Arts-Music Forum.  It is typically 1916 ('mature') Holst and should be recorded. (Listened to it a couple of times here, in the Galilee, on vacation, and don't have my documentation available.)

Thanks Johan.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 01, 2017, 08:42:56 AM
This really brings back memories. The first Lp I ever actually owned!! I  found the original Lp (not pictured here) at my eighty five year old father's house,in one of the record cases upstairs. My late mother was the other music lover,besides me. All I need is a record player!! How I must have loved this Lp cover when I was a youngster;although,I remember my mother telling me how I had moaned to her about Blue Peter (RIP John Noakes!) being replaced by a Moon landing!! ;D I also collected all the PG Tip stamps in their space exploration series;sticking them carefully in my PG Tips book. According to PG Tips there has already been a manned expedition to Mars (c 1980's,I think?) and there's already,a fully functioning moonbase! Oh well,you can't get everything right! I also seem to remember reading that one of the PG Tip chimps died,not so long ago;so RIP to him,too. The way of all flesh!! :( ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/N8BengU.jpg)

Luckily I have the cd,now! :)

(http://i.imgur.com/XJze5aC.jpg)

An absolutely magnificent performance. I can hear (listening now) exactly why it's so highly rated. The cd includes some superb extras. Beni Mora is a favourite of mine,and so is,the once,quite popular,Perfect Fool ballet music. The Radio 3 recording of the opera I downloaded at the AMF (Art Music Forum) and,incidentally,available complete at Youtube,reveals a quite entertaining opera,which really should be released on a cd. It really is quite fascinating to hear the ballet music in it's original context;and,even if the libretto is nothing to write home about,Holst's score is full of colour. Did Richard Itter ever record it,I wonder?!! They could release the Radio 3 recording and,in one fell swoop,fill in a big gap in the Holst discography! (Times like this I wish I had a recording label! :( ;D).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 01, 2017, 09:00:29 AM
A very nice post, sir  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 01, 2017, 10:07:24 AM
It would be nice if I hadn't just noticed the title of the post!! ??? ::) ;D

This really brings back memories. The first Lp I ever actually owned!! I  found the original Lp (not pictured here) at my eighty five year old father's house,in one of the record cases upstairs. My late mother was the other music lover,besides me. All I need is a record player!! How I must have loved this Lp cover when I was a youngster;although,I remember my mother telling me how I had moaned to her about Blue Peter (RIP John Noakes!) being replaced by a Moon landing!! ;D I also collected all the PG Tip stamps in their space exploration series;sticking them carefully in my PG Tips book. According to PG Tips there has already been a manned expedition to Mars (c 1980's,I think?) and there's already,a fully functioning moonbase! Oh well,you can't get everything right! I also seem to remember reading that one of the PG Tip chimps died,not so long ago;so RIP to him,too. The way of all flesh!! :( ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/N8BengU.jpg)

Luckily I have the cd,now! :)

(http://i.imgur.com/XJze5aC.jpg)

An absolutely magnificent performance. I can hear (listening now) exactly why it's so highly rated. The cd includes some superb extras. Beni Mora is a favourite of mine,and so is,the once,quite popular,Perfect Fool ballet music. The Radio 3 recording of the opera I downloaded at the AMF (Art Music Forum) and,incidentally,available complete at Youtube,reveals a quite entertaining opera,which really should be released on a cd. It really is quite fascinating to hear the ballet music in it's original context;and,even if the libretto is nothing to write home about,Holst's score is full of colour. Did Richard Itter ever record it,I wonder?!! They could release the Radio 3 recording and,in one fell swoop,fill in a big gap in the Holst discography! (Times like this I wish I had a recording label! :( ;D).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 01, 2017, 10:09:53 AM
I will listen to some 'Non Planets Holst',next! :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 01, 2017, 11:57:10 AM
No need to worry about the title cigwyn. Your post is indeed very interesting. The Apollo 'Planets' LP was a nostalgia trip for me too. I also remember the Decca Eclipse Stonehenge image too with affection (they used National Trust scenes with Cumbria in the snow, for example, having to stand in for the Antarctic for the front cover of Boult's LPO recording of Vaughan Williams's 7th Symphony. That CFP Sargent disc of Beni Mora is one of the great Non-Planets Holst discs. I recall a wonderful use of the Perfect Fool ballet music used in a TV documentary about the surrealist painter Rene Magritte made by a student at film school which I saw decades ago. If it's on you tube I'll try and post a link.
Here it is - a magical film. All three parts can be found on You Tube.
Only lasts about half an hour in total. Well worth watching and great use of The Perfect Fool ballet music:
https://youtu.be/NbIIAzwamNw
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 02, 2017, 06:41:45 AM
Thank you for drawing my attention to this. I think I will make a DVD-R,when I have some more. It's a bit uncomfortable watching on the pc,unfortunately. I do like Magritte,though. Much better than the overrated show off,Dali. Although,he's definitely better than the stuff that passes for art,these days! ??? ::) Which reminds me. I need to plump up the pillows!! ;D

I was just wondering,last night. What are your (current) favourite recordings of The Planets,vandermolen. If you don't mind me asking on a non Planets thread?! ;D I know you like te BBCSO Sargent and Herrmann.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 02, 2017, 06:49:32 AM
It would be nice if I hadn't just noticed the title of the post!! ??? ::) ;D


I did wonder but no matter  ;D

I went through a Non Planets phase relatively recently myself. Whenever your current purchasing embargo does end I can thoroughly recommend this set for non Planets works if you do not already own it....


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ff8w1-hIL._SX522_.jpg)   (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Id%2BQCbBIL._SX425_.jpg)



Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2017, 06:58:14 AM
Thank you for drawing my attention to this. I think I will make a DVD-R,when I have some more. It's a bit uncomfortable watching on the pc,unfortunately. I do like Magritte,though. Much better than the overrated show off,Dali. Although,he's definitely better than the stuff that passes for art,these days! ??? ::) Which reminds me. I need to plump up the pillows!! ;D

I was just wondering,last night. What are your (current) favourite recordings of The Planets,vandermolen. If you don't mind me asking on a non Planets thread?! ;D I know you like te BBCSO Sargent and Herrmann.
Well, I like the Boult 1944 recording and his later versions and that fine William Steinberg version which I have coupled with some '2001 A Space Odyssey' themed works.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 02, 2017, 07:45:30 AM
I think I 've got the 1944 recording on a cd-r. I will have a look,later. I also like Holst's acoustic recording,which I have on a Pearl cd. It sounds a bit wierd enjoying something recorded through a horn,but I think the performance has allot of atmosphere;if you can ignore the deficiencies of the recording 'process used. Holst's recording of Beni Mora,sounds suitably ominous. I only wish he could have recorded more!! :( I even enjoy his electrical recording. I think it's better than some people make it out to be. The cramped acoustic actually lends an opressive,sinister quality,at times. Anyway,it's the Master himself!! The only other recording I have is of the last recording by Boult. I did have the one he made in the sixties;but not anymore!
I'll confess here,that I was actually tempted to buy the Maazel recording because it was coupled with music from Star Wars!! ::) ;D I'm afraid I'm not a fan of the films. It's Fifties Sci-fi mainly,for me;but I do quite like the music!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 02, 2017, 08:16:36 AM
I did wonder but no matter  ;D

I went through a Non Planets phase relatively recently myself. Whenever your current purchasing embargo does end I can thoroughly recommend this set for non Planets works if you do not already own it....

Thank,aligreto;but I've got all those!! I bought a load on a Holst binge,a while back. I kept trying to stop,but I just kept buying more!! ::) :( ;D  In fact,I've got a pile of non Holst cd's piled up on the cassette deck downstairs. (Hopefully,I won't be trying to play them on it!! ??? ::))

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 02, 2017, 08:52:24 AM
Thank,aligreto;but I've got all those!! I bought a load on a Holst binge,a while back. I kept trying to stop,but I just kept buying more!! ::) :( ;D  In fact,I've got a pile of non Holst cd's piled up on the cassette deck downstairs. (Hopefully,I won't be trying to play them on it!! ??? ::))

That is great to read. Obviously there is a lot more to Holst than the Planets  8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2017, 10:17:14 AM
I think I 've got the 1944 recording on a cd-r. I will have a look,later. I also like Holst's acoustic recording,which I have on a Pearl cd. It sounds a bit wierd enjoying something recorded through a horn,but I think the performance has allot of atmosphere;if you can ignore the deficiencies of the recording 'process used. Holst's recording of Beni Mora,sounds suitably ominous. I only wish he could have recorded more!! :( I even enjoy his electrical recording. I think it's better than some people make it out to be. The cramped acoustic actually lends an opressive,sinister quality,at times. Anyway,it's the Master himself!! The only other recording I have is of the last recording by Boult. I did have the one he made in the sixties;but not anymore!
I'll confess here,that I was actually tempted to buy the Maazel recording because it was coupled with music from Star Wars!! ::) ;D I'm afraid I'm not a fan of the films. It's Fifties Sci-fi mainly,for me;but I do quite like the music!!
I have that Star Wars CD coupled with some Holst. Oops...I mean the other way round. Yes, I too think Holst's recording of the Planets and the great Beni Mora is much better than usually credited. I wish that VW had recorded more of his music too. He was not rated as a good conductor but the few surviving recordings suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 02, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
I'm actually listening to the Pearl cd,now. I actually think that the primitive technology has the strange effect of making it more ominous. Quite creepy with the lights off......and (gulp!) I don't think I'll try it!! I even like his electrical recording;but I can see (I mean hear) that his earlier recording is superior. (I always play it first....and more often). The apparently cramped studio conditions of the electrical recording do lend a certain atmosphere to Saturn and Uranus,imho. Although,it may be entirely a matter of my own overripe imagination?!! ::) ;D I do remember my excitement when I first found out that Holst had actually recorded The Planets. And,before that,being gobsmacked that Elgar was amongst the first major recording 'artistes' (albeit,not by any means the first) and certainly,the first composer to record such large swathes of his own output. If only more composers had liked 'gadgets' as much as he did!! Of course,by the time Holst reluctantly recorded his,there was apparently little interest,at least in this country,in recording contemporary concert music (or so I gather?) so,even if Holst had enjoyed the experience,he might not have had any more opportunites to record more of his music.....if any?!! :( Frank Bridge managed to record The Sea too,didn't he? I'd be astounded if you hadn't heard that! :o Other than that,it's all mainly bits and bobs!! I think I've got most of what's available on cd;being keen on collecting early acoustic and electrical recordings of orchestral works (and some other stuff!).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 03, 2017, 01:44:14 AM
Interesting,listening to Holst's 1926 electrical recording of The Planets. Emi have coupled the recording with Elgar's 1926 recording of his Enigma Variations. The contrast between the clarity of the recordings is strikingly obvious. Holst's recording sounds boxy and muffled by comparison;yet,once your ears adjust,perfectly listenable. Holst's acoustic recording is so much clearer. One of those rare examples of an acoustic recording of an orchestral recording that is actually better than the electrical remake!! Stokowski's 1925 Dvorak Ninth is another example!! As to the performance itself. Holst's conducting is brisk;but,contrary to received opinion,I actually enjoyed the performance,and again,in some ways,the cramped acoustic seemed to add an ominous atmosphere,a feeling of menace to some  parts of the score,particularly,Saturn and Uranus,which I actually did like. Of course,if I bought a new recording that sounded like that I'd want my money back >:( ;D......but,yes,I think this recording is,if you accept it's shortcomings;is actually a tad better than some critics make out!  What a pity he wasn't able to record some more!! :(

The Elgar is placed first on this cd. Here's the pretty cover!!

(http://i.imgur.com/MNKUmQ9.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 03, 2017, 04:38:00 AM
I'm listening to this now. I actually prefer the performances on this cd to the ones on the Chandos label. It also includes King Estmere,which I rather like. More attractive atwork too,imho. The Chandos cd does include another rarity,The Lure.

(http://i.imgur.com/Hu4wP4M.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2017, 06:38:17 AM
It would be nice if I hadn't just noticed the title of the post!! ??? ::) ;D

Do not reproach thyself!  I have enjoyed (belatedly) your Holst-athon.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2017, 06:41:29 AM
[...] I do like Magritte,though. Much better than the overrated show off,Dali.

Dalí was (like Picasso) a superb self-promoter.  They were both gifted artists, of course;  but there may have been arguably better artists who were not energetic enough in pushing themselves.

That seems, in may ways, to be the central story of the Arts in the 20th century and after.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2017, 06:43:08 AM
I did wonder but no matter  ;D

I went through a Non Planets phase relatively recently myself. Whenever your current purchasing embargo does end I can thoroughly recommend this set for non Planets works if you do not already own it....

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ff8w1-hIL._SX522_.jpg)   (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Id%2BQCbBIL._SX425_.jpg)

As tempting as that is (in a faute de mieux way), I cannot help feeling that a Holst Edition ought to be a good deal more than 6 CDs.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 03, 2017, 11:01:53 PM
As tempting as that is (in a faute de mieux way), I cannot help feeling that a Holst Edition ought to be a good deal more than 6 CDs.

I would not disagree but still, truncated as it is, it is a very good introduction to the composer's oeuvre for those who only know The Planets.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on June 04, 2017, 04:56:35 AM
And if it's in one of this slimline boxes,which is usually the case these days,take up far less room. Too late for me,though. The leaning tower of Holst cd's rules here,okay!! :( ;D :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 04, 2017, 06:03:53 AM
And if it's in one of this slimline boxes,which is usually the case these days,take up far less room. Too late for me,though. The leaning tower of Holst cd's rules here,okay!! :( ;D :)

Absolutely nothing wrong there  8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2017, 08:18:28 PM
Absolutely nothing wrong there  8)
+1 😀
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Rons_talking on June 05, 2017, 04:43:34 AM
I have to admit, until I saw this thread I never gave the non-planetary music of Holst much thought. The Perfect Fool has some nice material but I heard little instrumental music that was in the class of The Planets.. But now I have discovered the Choral Symphony...I don't know how I've missed it over the years. What a masterwork! I listened for the first time yesterday and have been hooked! Holst seems to be more a composer for the voice- his imagination soars. I've heard The Planets enough for the next decade. This is the beauty of GMC; discovery!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: aligreto on June 05, 2017, 04:56:56 AM
I have to admit, until I saw this thread I never gave the non-planetary music of Holst much thought. The Perfect Fool has some nice material but I heard little instrumental music that was in the class of The Planets.. But now I have discovered the Choral Symphony...I don't know how I've missed it over the years. What a masterwork! I listened for the first time yesterday and have been hooked! Holst seems to be more a composer for the voice- his imagination soars. I've heard The Planets enough for the next decade. This is the beauty of GMC; discovery!

Wonderful  8) and there is so much more out there beyond Neptune  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 05, 2017, 05:30:17 AM
And if it's in one of this slimline boxes,which is usually the case these days,take up far less room. Too late for me,though. The leaning tower of Holst cd's rules here,okay!! :( ;D :)

Eat your heart out, Babel!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2017, 08:09:58 AM
I have to admit, until I saw this thread I never gave the non-planetary music of Holst much thought. The Perfect Fool has some nice material but I heard little instrumental music that was in the class of The Planets.. But now I have discovered the Choral Symphony...I don't know how I've missed it over the years. What a masterwork! I listened for the first time yesterday and have been hooked! Holst seems to be more a composer for the voice- his imagination soars. I've heard The Planets enough for the next decade. This is the beauty of GMC; discovery!
I love the First Choral Symphony (there was no second one) - a magnificent work although even his friend Vaughan Williams didn't make much of it at first.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on October 04, 2018, 01:37:25 AM
Remember you're a Womble?! ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/gJLLuRT.jpg)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 04, 2018, 06:54:52 AM
Remember you're a Womble?! ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/gJLLuRT.jpg)
'Bright Eyes' from 'Watership Down' as well.

Good review:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Oct/Holst_planets_GMCD7814.htm
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on October 04, 2018, 07:43:07 AM
Some of Rob Barnett's review actually make it mildly intriguing,funnily enough!! ::)  I must admit I was wondering whether Neptune would fade out to a rendition of 'Bright eyes',from the female chorus,but apparently not?!! :( ;D You must be disappointed,vandermolen?! ;D  Incidentally,I'm a bit of a fan of Steeleye Span and Maddy Prior's wonderful voice;and I have to say that Mike Batt's involvement produced,arguably,their two worst albums. Although,again,Maddy Prior's voice is enough to warrant an occasional hearing! I must admit,I'm surprised the Wombles haven't been revived in these eco minded times,considering they picked up litter on Wimbledon common! But I must be careful what I wish for! The CGI movie version might be forthcoming?!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on October 04, 2018, 11:59:50 AM
Dalí was (like Picasso) a superb self-promoter.  They were both gifted artists, of course;  but there may have been arguably better artists who were not energetic enough in pushing themselves.

That seems, in may ways, to be the central story of the Arts in the 20th century and after.
Hear hear. Their omnipresence was actually the main reason why I couldn't enjoy the great city of Barcelona during my first two visits, in 1989 and again 2010. Last May I was staying there again, this time in the historic centre (Barrio Gòtic) and enjoyed if very much - because this time I neglected these self-promoting artists and went for the real genius loci (spirit of the place). Barcelona and indeed all Catalonia is so much better off without this artificial 'artisttry'.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on October 04, 2018, 11:42:24 PM
Some of Rob Barnett's review actually make it mildly intriguing,funnily enough!! ::)  I must admit I was wondering whether Neptune would fade out to a rendition of 'Bright eyes',from the female chorus,but apparently not?!! :( ;D You must be disappointed,vandermolen?! ;D  Incidentally,I'm a bit of a fan of Steeleye Span and Maddy Prior's wonderful voice;and I have to say that Mike Batt's involvement produced,arguably,their two worst albums. Although,again,Maddy Prior's voice is enough to warrant an occasional hearing! I must admit,I'm surprised the Wombles haven't been revived in these eco minded times,considering they picked up litter on Wimbledon common! But I must be careful what I wish for! The CGI movie version might be forthcoming?!!
I am joking,of course!! I think it would be on a par with Tomita's version! I do quite enjoy ELP's,oft ridiculed,'arrangement' (note,polite term!) when I'm in the right mood.........but Tomita is too much;and possibly even cultural vandalism?!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: cilgwyn on October 04, 2018, 11:45:01 PM
I have to admit, until I saw this thread I never gave the non-planetary music of Holst much thought. The Perfect Fool has some nice material but I heard little instrumental music that was in the class of The Planets.. But now I have discovered the Choral Symphony...I don't know how I've missed it over the years. What a masterwork! I listened for the first time yesterday and have been hooked! Holst seems to be more a composer for the voice- his imagination soars. I've heard The Planets enough for the next decade. This is the beauty of GMC; discovery!
The Choral symphony is wonderful,and one of my favourite choral works. I even prefer it to The Planets! My favourite recording is the Boult;and I'm quite happy with it. I will confess that I haven't heard the Chandos recording,however!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 05, 2018, 12:06:50 AM
The Choral symphony is wonderful,and one of my favourite choral works. I even prefer it to The Planets! My favourite recording is the Boult;and I'm quite happy with it. I will confess that I haven't heard the Chandos recording,however!
I agree with you about the Choral Symphony although Boult's remains my favourite version ( I do have the Chandos version as well). Actually there is also very fine Sargent version which is difficult to find (Intaglio label). And yes, you are quite right that I would be very disappointed if Mike Batt's recording of the Planets did not conclude with the wordless chorus from 'Neptune' morphing into 'Bright Eyes' or 'The Wombles of Wimbledon'.
 8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Oates on October 28, 2018, 09:37:26 AM
The latest addition to the Chandos cycle (which Andrew Davis inherited from the late Richard Hickox) is now available after a five year gap:

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GRLPLP7/ref=s9u_newr_gw_i2?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=B07GRLPLP7&pd_rd_r=7ecfe42d-dad6-11e8-9c86-6ffa2702ab58&pd_rd_w=17Emu&pd_rd_wg=NVQdS&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=P4487215G80B4Q7VST1D&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=187bec3b-0822-4044-bbe9-441718232b3f&pf_rd_i=desktop

It centres on the early Cotswold Symphony which I must confess for me doesn't live up to the promise of its name.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 28, 2018, 01:34:23 PM
The latest addition to the Chandos cycle (which Andrew Davis inherited from the late Richard Hickox) is now available after a five year gap:

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GRLPLP7/ref=s9u_newr_gw_i2?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=B07GRLPLP7&pd_rd_r=7ecfe42d-dad6-11e8-9c86-6ffa2702ab58&pd_rd_w=17Emu&pd_rd_wg=NVQdS&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=P4487215G80B4Q7VST1D&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=187bec3b-0822-4044-bbe9-441718232b3f&pf_rd_i=desktop

It centres on the early Cotswold Symphony which I must confess for me doesn't live up to the promise of its name.

Yes, one of my least favourite works by Holst.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Irons on October 29, 2018, 07:56:08 AM
I have been banging on for ages to anyone who would listen about Holst's, Suite de Ballet Op.10. It opens with a "Danse Rustiqe" which is quite jolly and then morphs into a tender violin concerto. You could not get further from "The Planets". Lyrita recorded the work (SRCS. 120) with the LPO conducted by Nicholas Braithwaite.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 29, 2018, 08:19:12 AM
Well, I shall need to seek that out . . . .
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on October 29, 2018, 08:29:34 AM
I have the Lyrita Braithwaite/LPO album and will have to revisit it shortly. I also have the recent Chandos album from Andrew Davis/BBC PO. The Cotswold Symphony is not a major work but still very pleasant wit a deeply felt slow movement in memory of William Morris.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 29, 2018, 10:35:40 AM
I'm not an expert about the The Planets countless recordings, but yesterday I listened to a Saturn that impressed me a lot, specifically from this recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71JEmXI3lzL._SX425_.jpg)

I rediscovered this stunning timeless piece, quite possibly my favorite planet along with Uranus (which shares the wizardry with the Dukas's The Sorcerer's Apprentice in a sort of way BTW!).

Karajan was a very good conductor, despite many criticisms from some.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 29, 2018, 10:37:37 AM
Dude, that is defiantly off-topic.  Just saying.

8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 29, 2018, 12:28:01 PM
Why? It's the only Holst thread I see. Sorry for the title, though.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
I think that there is/was a 'best recording of The Planets' thread but I don't see why we shouldn't have a generic Holst thread.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 29, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
Why? It's the only Holst thread I see. Sorry for the title, though.

Ah, my apologies.  It had not occurred to me that there might not already be "a proper" Holst thread!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 29, 2018, 01:57:25 PM
Too bad all composer discussion can't be organized this way, we can have "Requiem Faure" and "non-Requiem Faure," "Jupiter Symphony Mozart" and "non-Jupiter Symphony Mozart, "Appassionata Beethoven" and "non-Appassionata Beethoven." A lovely way to keep discussions on track.  ::)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2018, 02:12:08 PM
Too bad all composer discussion can't be organized this way, we can have "Requiem Faure" and "non-Requiem Faure," "Jupiter Symphony Mozart" and "non-Jupiter Symphony Mozart, "Appassionata Beethoven" and "non-Appassionata Beethoven." A lovely way to keep discussions on track.  ::)

Well, most of Holst's compositions  (and he was a very fine composer) are overshadowed by 'The Planets'. So, in his case I thought that this approach was fully justified. Anyway I'm happy for my new 'Planets' thread to be ignored. I'll be starting my 'Non-Tallis Fantasia Vaughan Williams' thread shortly.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 29, 2018, 02:24:42 PM
Sorry, my intent wasn't to criticize the creation of the current thread. But if people are going to be chased off this thread for bringing up the P-word, we probably should have a general Holst thread.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2018, 10:24:13 PM
Sorry, my intent wasn't to criticize the creation of the current thread. But if people are going to be chased off this thread for bringing up the P-word, we probably should have a general Holst thread.

A perfectly fair point.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 01:18:05 AM
Sorry, my intent wasn't to criticize the creation of the current thread. But if people are going to be chased off this thread for bringing up the P-word, we probably should have a general Holst thread.

As the chaser, I already apologized, but I stand ready to apologize more if the first repentant gesture be considered insufficient.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 01:24:27 AM
As the chaser, I already apologized, but I stand ready to apologize more if the first repentant gesture be considered insufficient.

Not at all Karl
The original confusion was caused, unintentionally, by me as my 'Non-Planets' thread ended up as the 'Holst' thread in the index. Compared to Brexit this is of minor significance from my point of view.
 8)

Maybe I should start an Imogen Holst thread just to add to the chaos!

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 01:32:31 AM
Whew!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2018, 01:56:02 AM
Maybe I should start an Imogen Holst thread just to add to the chaos!

 :)
And I'll start a Richard Hol thread to add a little more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hol
Or would Simeon ten Holt also do?  ::) http://www.simeontenholt.com/
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 02:06:05 AM
Well, most of Holst's compositions  (and he was a very fine composer) are overshadowed by 'The Planets'. So, in his case I thought that this approach was fully justified. Anyway I'm happy for my new 'Planets' thread to be ignored. I'll be starting my 'Non-Tallis Fantasia Vaughan Williams' thread shortly.

Look forward to that and to reporting my personal top ten recordings of the Tallis Fantasia on it.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 02:09:42 AM
Look forward to that and to reporting my personal top ten recordings of the Tallis Fantasia on it.

Excellent!
 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 02:10:33 AM
And I'll start a Richard Hol thread to add a little more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hol
Or would Simeon ten Holt also do?  ::) http://www.simeontenholt.com/
Another great idea.
 8)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 02:19:13 AM
And I'll start a Richard Hol thread to add a little more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hol
Or would Simeon ten Holt also do?  ::) http://www.simeontenholt.com/

Now if it was to be a Anthon van der Horst thread I would be up for it.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 03:08:47 AM
Look forward to that and to reporting my personal top ten recordings of the Tallis Fantasia on it.

I do enjoy GMG richly.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 03:09:57 AM
So apart from The Piece Which [in this thread] We Do Not Name, would the most popular (or most widely disseminated) Holst be the Suites for Military Band?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Daverz on October 30, 2018, 03:47:03 AM
So apart from The Piece Which [in this thread] We Do Not Name, would the most popular (or most widely disseminated) Holst be the Suites for Military Band?

I tend to forget the whole universe of wind band music.  I would have said the St. Paul Suite.  Arkivmusic lists 26 recordings of the Suite for Military Band No. 1 and 24 recordings of the St. Paul Suite.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 04:22:27 AM
This exposes my own Holst blind spot, but honestly, all I seem to remember of the St Paul Suite is the number which is essentially retread of one of the movements of the Military Band Suites (or, vice versa).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 04:23:27 AM
So apart from The Piece Which [in this thread] We Do Not Name, would the most popular (or most widely disseminated) Holst be the Suites for Military Band?
They are popular and remind of the English Folksong Suite by VW but maybe the Brook Green Suite or St Paul's Suite are other possibilities. Also The Perfect Fool Ballet music, with its magical, dreamy and poetic middle movement.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: 71 dB on October 30, 2018, 04:47:53 AM
To general public non-Planets Holst is as distant as Pluto.

I have made some attempts at getting to Holst beyond the Planets, but I haven't been very successful. Just listened to 'A Moor Suite', but again it left me cold (a poor CD on CRD label I bought long ago for Elgar's 'The Severn Suite').
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 04:59:05 AM
To general public non-Planets Holst is as distant as Pluto.

I have made some attempts at getting to Holst beyond the Planets, but I haven't been very successful. Just listened to 'A Moor Suite', but again it left me cold (a poor CD on CRD label I bought long ago for Elgar's 'The Severn Suite').

Holst's music won't really hit the Elgar buttons, of course.  Holst's unique character is, in part, that although his music breathes much the same air as Elgar and Vaughan Williams, his textures are typically simpler, sparer.

I really like The Hymn of Jesus.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 05:08:23 AM
So apart from The Piece Which [in this thread] We Do Not Name, would the most popular (or most widely disseminated) Holst be the Suites for Military Band?

I have a Double Decca entitled 'The Essential Holst'; it contains -

The Planets (Solti)
The Perfect Fool
Egdon Heath

St Paul's Suite
A Moorside Suite (played by Grimethorpe Colliery Band)
Choral Hymns from the Rig Veda
The Hymn of Jesus
Also three other short choral works

I have some of these in other recordings but, apart from the ubiquitous Planets, St Paul's Suite is the one that seems to crop up most often on other albums
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: 71 dB on October 30, 2018, 05:12:36 AM
Holst's music won't really hit the Elgar buttons, of course.  Holst's unique character is, in part, that although his music breathes much the same air as Elgar and Vaughan Williams, his textures are typically simpler, sparer.

I really like The Hymn of Jesus.

I'll check The Hymn of Jesus out. I will be getting Choral Fantasia & Psalm 86 with the "Finzi/Holst/RVW dics" I just ordered.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 05:18:50 AM
I'll check The Hymn of Jesus out. I will be getting Choral Fantasia & Psalm 86 with the "Finzi/Holst/RVW dics" I just ordered.

Those are lovely, as well.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 05:20:00 AM
I have a Double Decca entitled 'The Essential Holst'; it contains -

The Planets (Solti)
The Perfect Fool
Egdon Heath

St Paul's Suite
A Moorside Suite (played by Grimethorpe Colliery Band)
Choral Hymns from the Rig Veda
The Hymn of Jesus
Also three other short choral works

I have some of these in other recordings but, apart from the ubiquitous Planets, St Paul's Suite is the one that seems to crop up most often on other albums

That's part of the dilemma, I think:  overworking what is, with no disgrace (of course), a minor work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2018, 08:30:28 AM
Now if it was to be a Anthon van der Horst thread I would be up for it.
Good to learn! A bit OT, here: but do you happen to know his (orchestral) Reflections Sonores, Op. 99? I own a few locally produced cd's with his music, using rather poor radio recordings.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 30, 2018, 08:36:31 AM
To general public non-Planets Holst is as distant as Pluto.

I have made some attempts at getting to Holst beyond the Planets, but I haven't been very successful. Just listened to 'A Moor Suite', but again it left me cold (a poor CD on CRD label I bought long ago for Elgar's 'The Severn Suite').

I think Egdon Heath is a natural next thing to try. It is a symphonic poem which you will sometimes see described as Holst's best work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 09:13:44 AM
Good to learn! A bit OT, here: but do you happen to know his (orchestral) Reflections Sonores, Op. 99? I own a few locally produced cd's with his music, using rather poor radio recordings.

I have a confession to make: I was making a little joke, following on from other composers whose names are a bit like Holst. I only have one piece by Anthon van der Horst, his Symphony No 1, Op 23. It is part of Anthology of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Volume II, 1950-1960. The set contains various works by contemporary Dutch composers. As well as A van der H, there is Hans Henkemans, Matthus Vermeulen and Sem Dresden. I have listened to all the works included in the set, some of them more than once, but can't pretend to any great familiarity.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on October 30, 2018, 10:21:36 AM
I have a confession to make: I was making a little joke, following on from other composers whose names are a bit like Holst. I only have one piece by Anthon van der Horst, his Symphony No 1, Op 23. It is part of Anthology of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Volume II, 1950-1960. The set contains various works by contemporary Dutch composers. As well as A van der H, there is Hans Henkemans, Matthus Vermeulen and Sem Dresden. I have listened to all the works included in the set, some of them more than once, but can't pretend to any great familiarity.
:D ;D A good one; own that anthology too, good to know that it crossed the Channel. Yet, Van der Horst did a few things that I like: these Reflections Sonores (variations of the 'concerto for orchestra' type that I also admire in the case of Respighi (Metamorphoseon) and Ginastera (Variaciones concertantes), or even Cornelis Dopper's Ciaconna Gotica, plus one of his eight Chorus (not recorded), his Organ concerto.

In the case of Gustavus Theodore von Holst, to hasten to be more OT again, some favourites include Invocation (1911), Beni Mora (1910), Egdon Heath (1927), Hammersmith (1931), Lyric Movement (1933). But the two 'greatest' hits besides The Planets are for me The Hymn of Jesus (1917) and First Choral Symphony (1924).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: 71 dB on October 30, 2018, 10:29:25 AM
I think Egdon Heath is a natural next thing to try. It is a symphonic poem which you will sometimes see described as Holst's best work.

I believe Egdon Heath is a work I tried a few years ago to get into non-Planets (Plutonic?) Holst. Maybe I revisit it someday.  ;)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 30, 2018, 10:37:29 AM
I believe Egdon Heath is a work I tried a few years ago to get into non-Planets (Plutonic?) Holst. Maybe I revisit it someday.  ;)

I personally like it better than the Planets (taken as a whole). I wouldn't put in the top rank of my favorite pieces overall.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 11:26:56 AM
A Somerset Rhapsody is another possibility, especially if you like the more pastoral by-ways of Vaughan Williams. Towards the end of his life Holst became concerned that his music was too cold and distant ('Neptune' HaHa!)
 He wanted his music to express more warmth. The last ditch 'Lyric Movement' for Viola and Orchestra is IMHO a lovely late work. I may have got the title wrong so will check.

PS it's the right title - for Viola and (very) small orchestra.

Also, this is beautiful I think:

Love on my heart from Heaven fell from Seven Partsongs. It only two and a half minutes:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iqwKqz6vYBo

There are a couple of other postings of it on YouTube if this one doesn't work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Sergeant Rock on October 30, 2018, 01:32:37 PM

Also, this is beautiful I think:

Love on my heart from Heaven fell from Seven Partsongs. It only two and a half minutes:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iqwKqz6vYBo

Yes, really lovely. But it's only had 28 views in three and a half years! Poor Holst.

Sarge
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 01:35:16 PM
Yes, really lovely. But it's only had 28 views in three and a half years! Poor Holst.

Sarge

Glad you liked it Sarge. I was only aware of it as it featured in a TV documentary about the composer.

This one's had about 400 views and includes the words presented in 'Star Wars' fashion:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJdZYgoWZkM
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Klaatu on October 30, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
Nothing to do with Holst's music, but I was intrigued to recently discover that Gustav Holst's brother was the film actor Ernest Cossart, who specialised in playing butlers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Cossart

As Michael Caine would say, "There's not a lot of people know that!"

PS I really like 'The Hymn of Jesus'. I've yet to hear the Choral Symphony but I'll make this a priority after all the recommendations on this thread.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2018, 02:05:03 PM
Nothing to do with Holst's music, but I was intrigued to recently discover that Gustav Holst's brother was the film actor Ernest Cossart, who specialised in playing butlers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Cossart

As Michael Caine would say, "There's not a lot of people know that!"

PS I really like 'The Hymn of Jesus'. I've yet to hear the Choral Symphony but I'll make this a priority after all the recommendations on this thread.

How interesting! Thanks for posting that info.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Christo on October 31, 2018, 04:43:58 AM
some favourites include Invocation (1911), Beni Mora (1910), Egdon Heath (1927), Hammersmith (1931), Lyric Movement (1933). But the two 'greatest' hits besides The Planets are for me The Hymn of Jesus (1917) and First Choral Symphony (1924).

Honesty compelling me to add, that I also have a special liking for his - folksy, typically Holst - suites like: First & Second Suites for military band (1909 & 1911), St Paul's Suite (1913), A Moorside Suite (preferably for strings, 1928), Brook Green Suite (1933).  :-X
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2018, 05:08:04 AM
Honesty compelling me to add, that I also have a special liking for his - folksy, typically Holst - suites like: First & Second Suites for military band (1909 & 1911), St Paul's Suite (1913), A Moorside Suite (preferably for strings, 1928), Brook Green Suite (1933).  :-X

I like both suites for military band and also Hammersmith.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 31, 2018, 07:24:03 AM
The band suites are beloved classics in that lit;  great fun to play, and thoroughly gratifying music.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2018, 09:35:22 AM
The band suites are beloved classics in that lit;  great fun to play, and thoroughly gratifying music.

Yes, I recall that you liked these Karl.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 31, 2018, 10:35:37 AM
Yes, I recall that you liked these Karl.

I might have been in the eighth grade when I first played these . . . .
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Papy Oli on November 18, 2018, 11:03:09 AM
For those who can access BBC I-player, a documentary that could be of interest about RvW and Holst :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bshhss/holst-and-vaughan-williams-making-music-english (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bshhss/holst-and-vaughan-williams-making-music-english)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2018, 12:44:33 PM
For those who can access BBC I-player, a documentary that could be of interest about RvW and Holst :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bshhss/holst-and-vaughan-williams-making-music-english (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bshhss/holst-and-vaughan-williams-making-music-english)

Thanks - I recorded it but haven't watched it yet.

It was excellent - please see the VW thread, where I wrote a bit about it, if you are interested.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 20, 2018, 12:47:09 AM
Thanks - I recorded it but haven't watched it yet.

It was excellent (please see VW thread where I wrote a bit about it if you are interested).
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: kyjo on May 18, 2019, 08:11:26 PM
Last night, I finally listened to a work which I've been meaning to listen to for a while - Holst's (First) Choral Symphony. What a magnificent work! By turns mysterious, mercurial, and glowingly lyrical, it's a superbly written work for voices and orchestra alike. There are several passages which echo The Planets and, more importantly, much music of great individuality and impact. This new Chandos recording is exemplary in all regards:


Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 12:14:18 AM
Last night, I finally listened to a work which I've been meaning to listen to for a while - Holst's (First) Choral Symphony. What a magnificent work! By turns mysterious, mercurial, and glowingly lyrical, it's a superbly written work for voices and orchestra alike. There are several passages which echo The Planets and, more importantly, much music of great individuality and impact. This new Chandos recording is exemplary in all regards:




It's probably my favourite work by Holst, much as I like The Planets, Egdon Heath etc. Glad you enjoyed it Kyle. You might also like The Cloud Messenger if you don't already know it. I don't think that it's as consistently good as The First Choral Symphony but it has some wonderful moments, including an extraordinary proto-minimalist passage.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: kyjo on May 20, 2019, 10:52:29 AM
It's probably my favourite work by Holst, much as I like The Planets, Egdon Heath etc. Glad you enjoyed it Kyle. You might also like The Cloud Messenger if you don't already know it. I don't think that it's as consistently good as The First Choral Symphony but it has some wonderful moments, including an extraordinary proto-minimalist passage.

I listened to The Cloud Messenger (which, astonishingly, only seems to have one recording - Hickox on Chandos) last night and was once again blown away! What rapturous music! There’s one section in particular that’s quite mesmerizing where women’s voices sings a wordless, melismatic “ah” to a haunting, “oriental” melodic line. Indeed, there is so much more to Holst than The Planets!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2019, 12:38:14 PM
I listened to The Cloud Messenger (which, astonishingly, only seems to have one recording - Hickox on Chandos) last night and was once again blown away! What rapturous music! There’s one section in particular that’s quite mesmerizing where women’s voices sings a wordless, melismatic “ah” to a haunting, “oriental” melodic line. Indeed, there is so much more to Holst than The Planets!

Delighted that you liked it Kyle! You're quite right - that is the one and only recording.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2020, 12:15:31 PM
Interesting-looking new release:
(http://)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 01:48:09 PM
Good to see Holst get some recognition outside of The Planets. That new release of The Cloud Messenger does look rather good, Jeffrey. I might have heard this piece once, but, honestly, as with so much I’ve heard in the past 11 years or so, I’d have to give myself a refresher on what it sounded like. A work that I want to hurt Holst for writing is the Japanese Suite. Not because I dislike the work, of course, but because it’s so freaking infectious! I have that movement Dance of the Marionette bouncing around in my head all day after I hear it. Some other favorite works of Holst: Egdon Heath, St. Paul’s Suite, The Hymn of Jesus, Choral Symphony, Lyric Movement, Suites Nos. 1 & 2 for Military Band, Beni Mora and Invocation. I should do a deeper dive into his oeuvre, but generally I’m not an opera fan, so I’ve been kind of putting off listening to works like Sāvitri, At the Boar’s Head, The Wandering Scholar, etc.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: kyjo on May 27, 2020, 03:19:24 PM
Interesting-looking new release:
(http://)

Very nice! To my knowledge, this will only be the second commercial recording of The Cloud Messenger (in any version) after the Hickox recording on Chandos, which is hard to fathom as it is such a wonderful and imaginative work.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2020, 11:17:43 PM
Very nice! To my knowledge, this will only be the second commercial recording of The Cloud Messenger (in any version) after the Hickox recording on Chandos, which is hard to fathom as it is such a wonderful and imaginative work.
Thank you Kyle and John for your responses. Many fine compositions by Holst have been rather eclipsed (appropriate metaphor I think  8)) by the success of 'The Planets' which was both a blessing and a curse for Holst. Yes, this will, AFAIK, be only the second recording of 'The Cloud Messenger', which I'm looking forward to receiving. Of course I have the fine Hickox recording. There may be some longueurs in the work but there are some wonderfully poetic and magical moments, including an inspired proto-minimalist section. Holst was IMO a very great composer and it's sad that he didn't live as long as his friend Vaughan Williams. I must listen to that Japanese Suite again after John's comment about it. Other works I greatly admire (apart from The Planets) are Egdon Heath, Hammersmith, The First Choral Symphony, A Somerset Rhapsody, a Choral Fantasia, the suites for Band and much more besides. There are some lovely songs as well.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Biffo on May 27, 2020, 11:49:42 PM
Thank you Kyle and John for your responses. Many fine compositions by Holst have been rather eclipsed (appropriate metaphor I think  8)) by the success of 'The Planets' which was both a blessing and a curse for Holst. Yes, this will, AFAIK, be only the second recording of 'The Cloud Messenger', which I'm looking forward to receiving. Of course I have the fine Hickox recording. There may be some longueurs in the work but there are some wonderfully poetic and magical moments, including an inspired proto-minimalist section. Holst was IMO a very great composer and it's sad that he didn't live as long as his friend Vaughan Williams. I must listen to that Japanese Suite again after John's comment about it. Other works I greatly admire (apart from The Planets) are Egdon Heath, Hammersmith, The First Choral Symphony, A Somerset Rhapsody, a Choral Fantasia, the suites for Band and much more besides. There are some lovely songs as well.

For me you have hit the nail on the head. Holst seems to have set every verse of the long poem and as a result there is too much hovering, trembling and anticipation; if the work was 15 minutes shorter it would be so much better. Having said that I am sure plenty of people will enjoy the work more than I did,
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2020, 12:06:40 AM
For me you have hit the nail on the head. Holst seems to have set every verse of the long poem and as a result there is too much hovering, trembling and anticipation; if the work was 15 minutes shorter it would be so much better. Having said that I am sure plenty of people will enjoy the work more than I did,
Yes, I agree with you, which may be why there has, up to now, been only one recording of it. Still, the magical moments are worth waiting for and I look forward to hearing the chamber version.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 28, 2020, 01:47:33 AM
Yes, I agree with you, which may be why there has, up to now, been only one recording of it. Still, the magical moments are worth waiting for and I look forward to hearing the chamber version.

I like "Cloud Messenger" but I must admit I have no interest in hearing an arrangement that Holst never made nor sanctioned (I assume this new version is a new arrangement).  Am I missing something glorious!?
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on May 28, 2020, 04:57:38 AM
Thank you Kyle and John for your responses. Many fine compositions by Holst have been rather eclipsed (appropriate metaphor I think  8)) by the success of 'The Planets' which was both a blessing and a curse for Holst. Yes, this will, AFAIK, be only the second recording of 'The Cloud Messenger', which I'm looking forward to receiving. Of course I have the fine Hickox recording. There may be some longueurs in the work but there are some wonderfully poetic and magical moments, including an inspired proto-minimalist section. Holst was IMO a very great composer and it's sad that he didn't live as long as his friend Vaughan Williams. I must listen to that Japanese Suite again after John's comment about it. Other works I greatly admire (apart from The Planets) are Egdon Heath, Hammersmith, The First Choral Symphony, A Somerset Rhapsody, a Choral Fantasia, the suites for Band and much more besides. There are some lovely songs as well.

Indeed, Jeffrey. There are many gems in Holst’s oeuvre that many people are either unaware of or simply haven’t taken the time to explore his oeuvre. Yes, I recall that Holst was proud of The Planets, but resented the fact its’ success meant that his other music would go unnoticed. It should also be worth noting that The Planets is actually his least favorite composition. I recall him saying he was most proud of Egdon Heath for example.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Symphonic Addict on May 28, 2020, 11:40:38 AM
Beni Mora (Oriental Suite) and Indra are two pieces I find fantastic besides the ones already mentioned. Upon hearing Beni Mora one realizes that was a clear inspiration for John Williams.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: kyjo on May 28, 2020, 12:16:20 PM
Beni Mora (Oriental Suite) and Indra are two pieces I find fantastic besides the ones already mentioned. Upon hearing Beni Mora one realizes that was a clear inspiration for John Williams.

Indeed! I love Holst in “exotic” mode. He was a master of conjuring up images of faraway lands and ancient times in his music.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2020, 12:28:40 PM
I like "Cloud Messenger" but I must admit I have no interest in hearing an arrangement that Holst never made nor sanctioned (I assume this new version is a new arrangement).  Am I missing something glorious!?
I'll let you know. It's due to arrive here tomorrow.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
Beni Mora (Oriental Suite) and Indra are two pieces I find fantastic besides the ones already mentioned. Upon hearing Beni Mora one realizes that was a clear inspiration for John Williams.
Yes, I should have mentioned that fine work in my list. It is a hauntingly atmospheric piece.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Indeed, Jeffrey. There are many gems in Holst’s oeuvre that many people are either unaware of or simply haven’t taken the time to explore his oeuvre. Yes, I recall that Holst was proud of The Planets, but resented the fact its’ success meant that his other music would go unnoticed. It should also be worth noting that The Planets is actually his least favorite composition. I recall him saying he was most proud of Egdon Heath for example.
Yes, I think that's right about Egdon Heath John. I think that Holst might have considered it his greatest work. I'm not sure that Holst didn't like the Planets (although I don't think that he liked the central part of 'Jupiter' being turned into a hymn) so much as him resenting the way in which its success overshadowed all his other works.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Mirror Image on May 28, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
Yes, I think that's right about Egdon Heath John. I think that Holst might have considered it his greatest work. I'm not sure that Holst didn't like the Planets (although I don't think that he liked the central part of 'Jupiter' being turned into a hymn) so much as him resenting the way in which its success overshadowed all his other works.

Yes, indeed, Jeffrey. All of this talk about Holst is getting me in the mood to revisit some of his music. :D
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 01, 2020, 11:40:37 AM
The name Holst and the genre of opera are seldom linked but his works in this field are worth exploring:

Sita, Op.23 (1899-1906) - a large-scale effort, unsuccessful entrant of the 1906 Ricordi Competition, later renounced by the composer as "good old Wagnerian bawling"...

Interlude from Act III recorded by Lyrita (SRCD209)
Closing scene from Act III (recorded by Opera Viva on LP, 1983, nla), copy available in my British and Irish Music Archive at the Art Music Forum

Sāvitri, Op.25 (1909) - a three-hander with Holst in minimalist mode...

Complete recording by Decca (various issues)
Complete recording by Hyperion (CDH55042)
Complete recording by Phoenix USA (PHCD145)

The Perfect Fool, Op.39 (1918-22) - quirky humour and vivid orchestration tell a fairy-tale of Holst's own devising...

Ballet music recorded several times
Complete BBC performance conducted by Vernon Handley (not commercially released but available in off-air recordings) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsn2jNGZsw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsn2jNGZsw): follow the vocal score as well!

At the Boar's Head, Op.42 (1924-25) - a somewhat dry exercise in attempting to wed Shakespeare to English folksong...

Complete recording by EMI (CDC 7 49409 2) now Warner Classics (4404712)
Complete recording by Dux (DUX130708)

The Wandering Scholar, Op.50 (1929-30) - light, compact and vigorous, a well-paced four-hander...

Complete recording by EMI (CDC 7 49409 2) now Warner Classics (4404712)
Complete recording by Chandos (CHAN 9734)

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 02, 2020, 07:15:36 AM
The name Holst and the genre of opera are seldom linked but his works in this field are worth exploring:

Sita, Op.23 (1899-1906) - a large-scale effort, unsuccessful entrant of the 1906 Ricordi Competition, later renounced by the composer as "good old Wagnerian bawling"...

Interlude from Act III recorded by Lyrita (SRCD209)
Closing scene from Act III (recorded by Opera Viva on LP, 1983, nla), copy available in my British and Irish Music Archive at the Art Music Forum

Sāvitri, Op.25 (1909) - a three-hander with Holst in minimalist mode...

Complete recording by Decca (various issues)
Complete recording by Hyperion (CDH55042)
Complete recording by Phoenix USA (PHCD145)

The Perfect Fool, Op.39 (1918-22) - quirky humour and vivid orchestration tell a fairy-tale of Holst's own devising...

Ballet music recorded several times
Complete BBC performance conducted by Vernon Handley (not commercially released but available in off-air recordings) -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsn2jNGZsw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPsn2jNGZsw): follow the vocal score as well!

At the Boar's Head, Op.42 (1924-25) - a somewhat dry exercise in attempting to wed Shakespeare to English folksong...

Complete recording by EMI (CDC 7 49409 2) now Warner Classics (4404712)
Complete recording by Dux (DUX130708)

The Wandering Scholar, Op.50 (1929-30) - light, compact and vigorous, a well-paced four-hander...

Complete recording by EMI (CDC 7 49409 2) now Warner Classics (4404712)
Complete recording by Chandos (CHAN 9734)

 :)
Thanks - I rarely listen to opera although I think that one or two feature in my Holst boxed set. The Ballet music from the Perfect Fool, especially the dreamy, poetic and magical middle movement is one of my very favourite works by Holst.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 02, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
Here is a little-known work of significance by Holst from my British and Irish Music Archive of off-air recordings:

Hecuba's Lament, Op.31 No.1 (1911)

Catherine Wyn-Rogers, mezzo/ Geoffrey Mitchell Choir/ BBC Concert Orchestra/ Barry Wordsworth (broadcast on BBC Radio 3 21st December 1995)


http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file)

This powerful and moving piece is not available commercially and the download is made available for private study purposes.

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Peter Power Pop on November 02, 2020, 03:03:18 PM
Here is a little-known work of significance by Holst from my British and Irish Music Archive of off-air recordings:

Hecuba's Lament, Op.31 No.1 (1911)

Catherine Wyn-Rogers, mezzo/ Geoffrey Mitchell Choir/ BBC Concert Orchestra/ Barry Wordsworth (broadcast on BBC Radio 3 21st December 1995)


http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file)

This powerful and moving piece is not available commercially and the download is made available for private study purposes.

 :)

Thanks, Alby.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 02, 2020, 03:37:51 PM
Thanks, Alby.

You are more than welcome! I created and continue to curate a large archive of mostly off-air performances of British and Irish repertoire which are otherwise currently unavailable. Many of them I recorded myself but many have been donated through the kindness of like-minded collectors over the past ten years - the number of files (mostly mp3s) now stands at 1,676! Here is my latest catalogue -

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file)

Hecuba's Lament is just one example of a significant work by a composer of international stature which has been unjustly overlooked: there are many others...

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Peter Power Pop on November 02, 2020, 06:47:39 PM
You are more than welcome! I created and continue to curate a large archive of mostly off-air performances of British and Irish repertoire which are otherwise currently unavailable. Many of them I recorded myself but many have been donated through the kindness of like-minded collectors over the past ten years - the number of files (mostly mp3s) now stands at 1,676! Here is my latest catalogue -

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file)

[snip]

That's fabulous. Much obliged, Magnificent A.

Time to go down the rabbit hole...
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 03, 2020, 01:00:31 AM
Returning to the operas, here is the extract from Sita mentioned above:

Sita, Op.23 (1899-1906) - Closing scene from Act III
Penelope Chalmers, sop; Jane Smith, mezzo; Carole Leatherby, alto; Mark Hofman, bar; Dafydd Wyn Phillips, bar/
Opera Viva Orchestra/ Leslie Head (12/2/1983, from LP OV101/2, 1983)


http://www.mediafire.com/file/cid6i5alklfyn7b/Holst_-_Sita%252C_Op.23_%25281899-1906%2529_-_excerpt.mp3/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/cid6i5alklfyn7b/Holst_-_Sita%252C_Op.23_%25281899-1906%2529_-_excerpt.mp3/file)

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on November 03, 2020, 06:52:00 AM
You are more than welcome! I created and continue to curate a large archive of mostly off-air performances of British and Irish repertoire which are otherwise currently unavailable. Many of them I recorded myself but many have been donated through the kindness of like-minded collectors over the past ten years - the number of files (mostly mp3s) now stands at 1,676! Here is my latest catalogue -

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file)

Hecuba's Lament is just one example of a significant work by a composer of international stature which has been unjustly overlooked: there are many others...

 :)


Hello, I am a scholar about Gustav Holst, Peter knows me, I have many rare things, mainly photographs and videos, I am even editing a film about Holst using the rare The Lost films. I saw your catalog list, can you send me these items?

The Vision of Dame Christian, Op.27a (1909)^^^
Choir and O of St Paul's Girls' School/ Imogen Holst (privately issued LP, rec. 1974)


King Estmere, Op.17 (1903)****
BBC Singers/ English Chamber O/ Norman Del Mar (br. 26/6/1983)



Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: relm1 on November 03, 2020, 07:40:55 AM
Here is a little-known work of significance by Holst from my British and Irish Music Archive of off-air recordings:

Hecuba's Lament, Op.31 No.1 (1911)

Catherine Wyn-Rogers, mezzo/ Geoffrey Mitchell Choir/ BBC Concert Orchestra/ Barry Wordsworth (broadcast on BBC Radio 3 21st December 1995)


http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/x90heo89jg61iu6/Holst_-_Hecuba%2527s_Lament%252C_Op.31_No.1_%25281911%2529.mp3/file)

This powerful and moving piece is not available commercially and the download is made available for private study purposes.

 :)

I really liked it.  Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 03, 2020, 11:10:43 AM
Hello, I am a scholar about Gustav Holst, Peter knows me, I have many rare things, mainly photographs and videos, I am even editing a film about Holst using the rare The Lost films. I saw your catalog list, can you send me these items?

The Vision of Dame Christian, Op.27a (1909)^^^
Choir and O of St Paul's Girls' School/ Imogen Holst (privately issued LP, rec. 1974)


King Estmere, Op.17 (1903)****
BBC Singers/ English Chamber O/ Norman Del Mar (br. 26/6/1983)


Hi Bruno, please check your forum messages for the relevant links.

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 03, 2020, 01:20:59 PM
You are more than welcome! I created and continue to curate a large archive of mostly off-air performances of British and Irish repertoire which are otherwise currently unavailable. Many of them I recorded myself but many have been donated through the kindness of like-minded collectors over the past ten years - the number of files (mostly mp3s) now stands at 1,676! Here is my latest catalogue -

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fxjaych73jyhj9j/British_and_Irish_Music_Catalogue_2020.txt/file)

Hecuba's Lament is just one example of a significant work by a composer of international stature which has been unjustly overlooked: there are many others...

 :)

Thankyou from me too - I followed your link to "Perfect Fool" which I have always wanted to hear complete.  I'd missed that BBC performance.  What would we do without the BBC ........ don't answer that!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 04, 2020, 01:37:02 AM
Thankyou from me too - I followed your link to "Perfect Fool" which I have always wanted to hear complete.  I'd missed that BBC performance.  What would we do without the BBC ........ don't answer that!!

The issuing of Richard Itter's personal archive on Lyrita seems to have dried up at the moment. I contacted the label several years ago to suggest that these two performances (Hecuba's Lament and The Perfect Fool) were urgent candidates for release - I heard nothing. In the decades from the 60s to the 90s the BBC actively sought out interesting and neglected works for its house orchestras to broadcast, nowadays such innovative planning is virtually defunct and in the race for ratings Radio 3 has sadly plunged into the mire of "audience led" programming and vacuous chat with very little initiative, relying more and more on mainstream works and the easy availability of already-commercially-released recordings (with the very rare exception)...

 ::) :(  ???
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 04, 2020, 04:17:58 AM
The issuing of Richard Itter's personal archive on Lyrita seems to have dried up at the moment. I contacted the label several years ago to suggest that these two performances (Hecuba's Lament and The Perfect Fool) were urgent candidates for release - I heard nothing. In the decades from the 60s to the 90s the BBC actively sought out interesting and neglected works for its house orchestras to broadcast, nowadays such innovative planning is virtually defunct and in the race for ratings Radio 3 has sadly plunged into the mire of "audience led" programming and vacuous chat with very little initiative, relying more and more on mainstream works and the easy availability of already-commercially-released recordings (with the very rare exception)...

 ::) :(  ???

I find what has happened to Radio 3 deeply dispiriting.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on November 04, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
What is your opinion about the recordings conducted by Holst? I particularly like it a lot, I think the 1926 recording is very good, but I also like the acoustic recordings a lot. This is the list of the works that Holst recorded:

1922 (Acoustic):

The Planets Op. 32:
No. 4, Jupiter, The Bringer of Jollity

1923 (Acoustic):

The Planets Op. 32
No. 1, Mars.
No. 2, Venus
No. 3, Mercury
No. 5, Saturn
No. 6, Uranus
No. 7, Neptune

Beni Mora Op. 29
No, 1. First Dance (lost recording)

1924 (Acoustic)

Beni Mora Op. 29, No. 1
No. 1, first Dance
No. 2, Second Dance
No. 3, In the Street of Ouled Naïls

Two Songs Without Words Op. 22
No. 1, Country Song
No. 2, Marching Song

St. Paul's Suite Op. 29 No. 2
No. 1, Jig
No. 2, Ostinato
No. 3, Intermezzo
No. 4, Finale

Four Songs for Voice and Violin Op. 35 (Holst was present at the recording studio)

1925 (Acoustic)

The Planets Op. 32
No. 4, Jupiter
No. 5, Saturn

1926 (Electric)

The Planets Op. 32 (complete)

Two Songs Without Words Op. 22
No. 2, Marching Song.

Holst probably must have recorded A Fugal Overture, but don't know what went wrong, he also conducted a radio broadcast in 1931 on BBC Proms. By the way, does anyone have this interview with Vaughan Williams saved? https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00d3p91
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on November 07, 2020, 01:43:51 AM
I enjoy this recording. Sadly I don't have those VW archive recordings saved:
(http://)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Albion on November 07, 2020, 02:14:07 AM
Sadly I don't have those VW archive recordings saved:

Unfortunately neither do I, but somebody somewhere will have saved this broadcast. That's the main reason that I was able to accumulate a large number of recordings from fellow enthusiasts, including no less than two radio transmissions from 1954 of York Bowen's (subsequently lost) Symphony No.3, Op.137 (1951): I still live in hope that this particular work can be reconstructed aurally in the same way that so many film scores have been and brought back into circulation...

 :)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Irons on November 07, 2020, 02:22:09 AM
I fully understand the historical significance of a composer conducting his or her own works but acoustic recordings are a few steps too far in the past for me.

May not quite have the authority of her father but the recordings of Imogen Holst are the next best thing. Not only blood line she also studied her father's music her whole life and lived and breathed it. The bonus is excellent sound.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: relm1 on November 07, 2020, 07:09:40 AM
I fully understand the historical significance of a composer conducting his or her own works but acoustic recordings are a few steps too far in the past for me.

May not quite have the authority of her father but the recordings of Imogen Holst are the next best thing. Not only blood line she also studied her father's music her whole life and lived and breathed it. The bonus is excellent sound.

I also thought the recordings by holst should only be taken as curiosity and not authenticity.  There were practical limitations on his tempo to fit an LP and his interpretation was nothing like the performance feedback he gave to Adrian Boult or Henry Wood during the premiere rehearsal.  I might be wrong on this though or the details might be apocryphal but I recall reading it isn't what holst intended.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Irons on November 07, 2020, 07:58:12 AM
I also thought the recordings by holst should only be taken as curiosity and not authenticity.  There were practical limitations on his tempo to fit an LP and his interpretation was nothing like the performance feedback he gave to Adrian Boult or Henry Wood during the premiere rehearsal.  I might be wrong on this though or the details might be apocryphal but I recall reading it isn't what holst intended.

Good point and the same could be said of Elgar.

Edit: To fit on 78s which is a way bigger challenge.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: relm1 on November 07, 2020, 05:22:51 PM
Good point and the same could be said of Elgar.

Edit: To fit on 78s which is a way bigger challenge.

Yes exactly!  People shouldn't refer to early recordings as authoritative.  They are practical and one should hear what the conductors who premiered the work under the composer's supervision as authoritative during the early days of recordings.  I would also say a composer performing a piano role of their own work isn't representative either except an example of their performance prowess like Rachmaninoff or Debussy.  Composers aren't also excellent conductors.  I know this first hand from my own works (I never could conduct it as I envisioned it as well as a very good conductor could) and also from world class musicians who told me how much they hated/ignored the conducting of famous composers.  A friend told me William Walton was falling over drunk while conducting them.  Leopold Stokowski in his late years was off by an entire measure at the ending so they just ignored him, etc.  Shostakovich often applauded interpretations of his work that were completely different so what was his true intent?  Probably something beyond it like the energy not the tempo or volume, etc.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on February 04, 2021, 10:14:40 PM
Lately I've been listening to the Choral Symphony a lot, I've known it for a long time, but now I realized the greatness of this piece, it became my second favorite Holst piece. I hope you share a good feeling about this work, so underrated. I've heard four different recordings:

Sargent (1964)
Boult (1974)
Wetton (1993)
Andrew Davis (2009)

I particularly consider Davis' performance better, more accurate and with a wonderful soprano.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 04, 2021, 11:47:12 PM
Lately I've been listening to the Choral Symphony a lot, I've known it for a long time, but now I realized the greatness of this piece, it became my second favorite Holst piece. I hope you share a good feeling about this work, so underrated. I've heard four different recordings:

Sargent (1964)
Boult (1974)
Wetton (1993)
Andrew Davis (2009)

I particularly consider Davis' performance better, more accurate and with a wonderful soprano.
Interesting - I also rate the Choral Symphony very highly - it is, perhaps, my favourite work by Holst, although I like nearly all his music. I have all those recordings. The Boult is very special to me as, for years, it was the only one I knew as I had the original LP. Someone kindly sent me the Sargent a while back and I really enjoyed that one as well. I must listen to the Davis again. I'm not quite so keen on the Wetton performance.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on February 05, 2021, 08:01:02 AM
Interesting - I also rate the Choral Symphony very highly - it is, perhaps, my favourite work by Holst, although I like nearly all his music. I have all those recordings. The Boult is very special to me as, for years, it was the only one I knew as I had the original LP. Someone kindly sent me the Sargent a while back and I really enjoyed that one as well. I must listen to the Davis again. I'm not quite so keen on the Wetton performance.

I like Boult's recording too, it's very energetic, and the acoustic is incredible. Wetton's performance is not bad in my opinion, the choir has a better diction, I can better understand Keats' verses (Holst was really concerned with the clarity of the words) but the acoustic is not as good as Boult's recording. I really like the energy of Sargent's recording, but I have a lot to say about the rest, because it is a very old radio broadcast and in mono, I can't make many comparisons. Davis' recording corrects the problems of previous recordings and Susan Gritton does an incredible and beautiful job, but I believe that if Hickox (in memory) had recorded this, it would be the definitive recording.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2021, 12:38:23 PM
I like Boult's recording too, it's very energetic, and the acoustic is incredible. Wetton's performance is not bad in my opinion, the choir has a better diction, I can better understand Keats' verses (Holst was really concerned with the clarity of the words) but the acoustic is not as good as Boult's recording. I really like the energy of Sargent's recording, but I have a lot to say about the rest, because it is a very old radio broadcast and in mono, I can't make many comparisons. Davis' recording corrects the problems of previous recordings and Susan Gritton does an incredible and beautiful job, but I believe that if Hickox (in memory) had recorded this, it would be the definitive recording.
Interesting and I like your avatar image! I must fish out the Davis recording. It's arguably his greatest composition, although Holst thought that Egdon Heath was.

Here's that fine old LP and one of its many CD manifestations:
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on February 05, 2021, 04:35:40 PM
Interesting and I like your avatar image! I must fish out the Davis recording. It's arguably his greatest composition, although Holst though that Egdon Heath was.

Here's that fine old LP and one of its many CD manifestations:
Thank you, my avatar photo is a photograph of Holst in Ann Harbor, USA taken in 1923. I have many rare pictures of Holst. about the choral symphony, I hope one day to watch a performance filmed on youtube, I need to see an orchestra playing that.

Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 06, 2021, 12:03:31 AM
Thank you, my avatar photo is a photograph of Holst in Ann Harbor, USA taken in 1923. I have many rare pictures of Holst. about the choral symphony, I hope one day to watch a performance filmed on youtube, I need to see an orchestra playing that.
What great photos (Holst munching a sandwich!) which I've never seen before. He normally looks very sombre in photographs. Thanks v much for posting them.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 06, 2021, 02:35:13 AM
What great photos (Holst munching a sandwich!) which I've never seen before. He normally looks very sombre in photographs. Thanks v much for posting them.

+1!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Irons on February 06, 2021, 02:56:47 AM
I didn't realise Holst was so dashing. The pin back collar of his shirt and as for the angle of his hat.....
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on February 06, 2021, 04:17:37 AM
I didn't realise Holst was so dashing. The pin back collar of his shirt and as for the angle of his hat.....
+1 - those photos have rather changed my view of him!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on March 14, 2021, 10:56:44 PM
Hello my friends! my friend Richard Adams are sponsoring a Kickstarter campaign to raise funds for my new documentary on Gustav Holst.  This documentary was actually started in the 1970s but never completed.  with the assistance of Colin Matthews, i been able to gain access to the old footage and is in the process or restoring it and completing the film but i needs funds to restore the 45-year old footage.  Please take a look at our Kickstarter page and consider making a donation.  If you donate $20 or more, I will list your name in the credits and "you'll be famous!". If you are unable to make a donation, sharing also helps a lot.  :)

 http://kck.st/38AYaQk  (http://kck.st/38AYaQk)
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on March 15, 2021, 12:02:05 AM
Hello my friends! my friend Richard Adams are sponsoring a Kickstarter campaign to raise funds for my new documentary on Gustav Holst.  This documentary was actually started in the 1970s but never completed.  with the assistance of Colin Matthews, i been able to gain access to the old footage and is in the process or restoring it and completing the film but i needs funds to restore the 45-year old footage.  Please take a look at our Kickstarter page and consider making a donation.  If you donate $20 or more, I will list your name in the credits and "you'll be famous!". If you are unable to make a donation, sharing also helps a lot.  :)

 http://kck.st/38AYaQk  (http://kck.st/38AYaQk)
How interesting Bruno! So interesting to hear Rubbra, Howells etc talk on the promotional film. Good luck with this valuable project. I've made a small donation.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: relm1 on March 15, 2021, 06:32:16 AM
Thank you, my avatar photo is a photograph of Holst in Ann Harbor, USA taken in 1923. I have many rare pictures of Holst. about the choral symphony, I hope one day to watch a performance filmed on youtube, I need to see an orchestra playing that.

Holst was channeling his inner rapper with that sideways cap.
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on March 15, 2021, 06:45:37 AM
Holst was channeling his inner rapper with that sideways cap.
LOL!  ;D
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: Bruno_HolstHis on March 16, 2021, 06:41:35 PM
How interesting Bruno! So interesting to hear Rubbra, Howells etc talk on the promotional film. Good luck with this valuable project. I've made a small donation.
Thank you all for contributing. We have reached our funding goal in an amazing three days!!!
Title: Re: Non-Planets Holst
Post by: vandermolen on March 17, 2021, 01:31:52 AM
Thank you all for contributing. We have reached our funding goal in an amazing three days!!!
Great news!  :)