Bruckner's Abbey

[Jo498]

I'm realizing now I've known Bruckner's music for 17 years now, almost half my life.

you should change your screenname. I always think you were born in 1967
I have known (some of) Bruckner's music about twice as long, i.e. as long as you have been alive which is 2/3 of my life and this makes me feel quite old (still a bit younger than *1967 ) I think the first CD I bought was Wand's 1970s recording of the 5th probably in 1989 but I had probably heard at least the 4th and maybe another one before that, borrowed from a friend or so.

[DavidW]

My introduction to Bruckner was the 4th and 9th performed by Jochum/Dresden which I purchased from Tower Records in 1997.

[Maestro267]

you should change your screenname. I always think you were born in 1967

I'll try MaestroCCLXVII

[Cato]

Some items from a Bruckner website: a recording of Bruckner's Symphony I with The Osaka Philharmonic conducted by Takashi Asahina, whose name came up recently in other topics.

Note that the overture was recorded in a cathedral!




https://78experience.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=221&product_id=7320


Also, The Gerd Schaller Project for Bruckner's 200th birthday:

BRUCKNER2024 is a large-scale project since 2011 by the conductor Gerd Schaller with the aim of performing all symphonies of Anton Bruckner in all versions on the concert stage until the composer's 200th birthday in 2024 and recording them on CD. The Project also includes not only all symphonies in all versions but also the intermediate variants....

See:

https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/features/gerrd-schallers-bruckner--2024-project/

[LKB]

My introduction to Bruckner was the 4th and 9th performed by Jochum/Dresden which I purchased from Tower Records in 1997.

My own baptism into the " Church of Anton " ( my personal nickname for Bruckner fandom, conceived only a moment ago while starting this post ) was also facilitated via Tower Records, in 1977 or '78.

I was hanging out in the Classical section of the Mountain View, CA store ( my future workplace ) speaking with my best college friend. He paused our conversion, gave me a " hold on a moment " sign and walked over to the play stock. He pulled a green box out ( von Karajan's second DG recording, with the BPO ), opened it and placed an LP on the section's Bang & Olufsen turntable.

After the usual vinyl interval,  tremolo strings on E and G# quietly filled the room. A moment passed, then E Major was confirmed with horn and celli in unison, gazing towards Heaven through an arpeggiated lens.

I was already hooked, and l had absolutely no clue who l was listening to. 

[Jo498]

I'll try MaestroCCLXVII

But you don't want to divulge the meaning? born July 26th? But don't you write the dates wrong in the US
(FWIW 498 in my name refers to Mozart's Kegelstatt Trio)

[Brian]

But don't you write the dates wrong in the US

Maestro is Welsh.

I just Googled "Op. 267" ... it could be a piece by Josef Strauss, Alan Hovhaness's harp concerto, or Schubert's Trinklied. 

[Cato]

My own baptism into the " Church of Anton " ( my personal nickname for Bruckner fandom, conceived only a moment ago while starting this post ) was also facilitated via Tower Records, in 1977 or '78.

I was hanging out in the Classical section of the Mountain View, CA store ( my future workplace ) speaking with my best college friend. He paused our conversion, gave me a " hold on a moment " sign and walked over to the play stock. He pulled a green box out ( von Karajan's second DG recording, with the BPO ), opened it and placed an LP on the section's Bang & Olufsen turntable.

After the usual vinyl interval,  tremolo strings on E and G# quietly filled the room. A moment passed, then E Major was confirmed with horn and celli in unison, gazing towards Heaven through an arpeggiated lens.


I was already hooked, and l had absolutely no clue who l was listening to.  \

What a great story!  Yes, after imagining that opening while reading the score, and then hearing it on the DGG Jochum recording, I was hooked forever! 



😇😇😇The Church of Anton!😇😇😇  Excellent!



Certainly one of its bishops must be Eugen Jochum!


On that basis, how about this?

[Brian]

First ever listen to the finale:



Rattle's performance of the first three movements may not quite be my favorite - not as razor-sharp as Blomstedt or as hugely passionate as Honeck, just for example - but he does a really good job setting you up for the finale. The adagio doesn't "feel like the end" - you need there to be more, need a resolution. And the beginning of the finale is so satisfying in this way. It's like when your favorite book series gets a sequel that starts right where it left off.

However, the finale is - like the rest of the symphony - a tough nut. I think the first 22 minutes or so are totally successful, if not totally attractive. Like the Fifth, this is one of those finales where Bruckner is setting up a lot of dominoes, and then at the end he's going to knock 'em all down. You know he will get to the payoff, but there's so much setup, and the melodic material is not as immediately attractive as in the first three movements. Throughout all this, the orchestra sounds great and I can't identify where the reconstruction fits in. It all sounds original and all sounds "right."

...And then there are the last 60 seconds, with the final transition to major key. This was completely invented by the reconstructors, as Bruckner left the last dozen or so bars blank. The final resolved melody, as played by the trumpets, is so simple and so trite that it completely deflates the soufflé. I can hear that the shape of the melody echoes the ending of the first movement, and also has echoes of material in the third. But it's been simplified down to a cliché that Bruckner would have rejected. There has to be a better, more complex, more satisfying way to phrase this final melody.

[vers la flamme]

you should change your screenname. I always think you were born in 1967
I have known (some of) Bruckner's music about twice as long, i.e. as long as you have been alive which is 2/3 of my life and this makes me feel quite old (still a bit younger than *1967 ) I think the first CD I bought was Wand's 1970s recording of the 5th probably in 1989 but I had probably heard at least the 4th and maybe another one before that, borrowed from a friend or so.

You mean you weren't born in 1998? 

[Jo498]

I explained above that it's from a Koechel number.

Now "267" is NOT a moderately well known BWV, Deutsch, Koechel or opus number, otherwise I'd have considered the option. Of course it could be anything but born in 1967 would be reasonable in the demographics of classical music internet fora, that might be why my mind locked into that interpretation.

[Cato]

First ever listen to the finale:



Rattle's performance of the first three movements may not quite be my favorite - not as razor-sharp as Blomstedt or as hugely passionate as Honeck, just for example - but he does a really good job setting you up for the finale. The adagio doesn't "feel like the end" - you need there to be more, need a resolution. And the beginning of the finale is so satisfying in this way. It's like when your favorite book series gets a sequel that starts right where it left off.

However, the finale is - like the rest of the symphony - a tough nut. I think the first 22 minutes or so are totally successful, if not totally attractive. Like the Fifth, this is one of those finales where Bruckner is setting up a lot of dominoes, and then at the end he's going to knock 'em all down. You know he will get to the payoff, but there's so much setup, and the melodic material is not as immediately attractive as in the first three movements. Throughout all this, the orchestra sounds great and I can't identify where the reconstruction fits in. It all sounds original and all sounds "right."

...And then there are the last 60 seconds, with the final transition to major key. This was completely invented by the reconstructors, as Bruckner left the last dozen or so bars blank. The final resolved melody, as played by the trumpets, is so simple and so trite that it completely deflates the soufflé. I can hear that the shape of the melody echoes the ending of the first movement, and also has echoes of material in the third. But it's been simplified down to a cliché that Bruckner would have rejected. There has to be a better, more complex, more satisfying way to phrase this final melody.

Professor John Phillips, a member of the quartet, has had reservations: here is the revised finale which he completed in MIDI: performances by real orchestras will be available this year.

"(The symphony with his revised Finale) is being done in Karlsruhe, Tokyo, Manchester and (next year) Amsterdam; the Karlsruhe performance (February) is being live streamed and will also be permanently posted on YouTube. Manchester is also planning a CD release."

[Cato]

Since we have been discussing Bruckner performances on the What Are You Listening To topic...


...and because another Bruckner website has had people discussing Pierre Boulez and his interest in Bruckner later in his career:

From a review of a concert with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra:

"...He approached the massive cyclic structure with a composer's appreciation of how sound moves, builds, decays in space.

He bound the four movements together into a single statement, keeping the line firm and moving forward through Bruckner's typical starts and stops.

With his usual clarity Boulez sorted out the intricately woven counterpoint of the huge finale, building each appearance of the fugue steadily and without a hint of pomposity...."

See:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2000-10-28-0010280083-story.html

[Cato]

Concerning Boulez and Bruckner from a review of the DGG Eighth Symphony conducted by Pierre Boulez:

"Reading through Pierre Boulez's collection of essays, Orientations, the reader will find a single entry for Bruckner. It is in the essay, Mahler: Our Contemporary and Boulez writes only that 'Bruckner and Mahler appear as the Castor and Pollux of the symphony'. How extraordinary, therefore, to find Boulez not only conducting a Bruckner symphony (the only one he has ever conducted) but also giving us a performance of quite astonishing power. Both the first and second movements seethe with an electricity I have not encountered elsewhere, and the third and fourth movements are beautifully expansive without being in the slightest bit self-indulgent. It is a remarkable disc. ..."

This was written before Pierre Boulez began conducting other Bruckner symphonies, e.g. see above for the Fifth Symphony performance.


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/nov00/bruckner8boulez.htm

[calyptorhynchus]

...And then there are the last 60 seconds, with the final transition to major key. This was completely invented by the reconstructors, as Bruckner left the last dozen or so bars blank.

I understand that the entire symphony was completed in bifolios, but the last several were stolen by people thieving in Bruckner's apartment after this death. The reconstructors had various bits of evidence on which to base their reconstruction of the final bars...

I understand what you mean about a trite melody at the end, but the endings of all Bruckner symphonies are blazes of sounds with the themes reduced to very simple patterns; I don't think the reconstructors have done a bad job.

However I will be interesting to see what Phillips new revision sounds like in orchestral sound.

[brewski]

Concerning Boulez and Bruckner from a review of the DGG Eighth Symphony conducted by Pierre Boulez:


This was written before Pierre Boulez began conducting other Bruckner symphonies, e.g. see above for the Fifth Symphony performance.


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/nov00/bruckner8boulez.htm

Was surprised and pleased to see this review was written by Marc Bridle, a former colleague with whom I'm still in touch. So thank you! He'll be very happy to know that someone cited his article, written (hard to believe) almost 25 years ago.

-Bruce

[DavidW]

While trying to answer the question of what mp3 player did I buy 14 years ago, I accidentally found that I used to own the Wand Bruckner box set!  And here I thought it was a new discovery for me.  I'm telling you sometimes my memory is awful!

[Atriod]

Has anyone heard Wand's late in life live Bruckner recordings that came out on King in Japan?

[Cato]

Has anyone heard Wand's late in life live Bruckner recordings that came out on King in Japan?

Would this be one of them?  The Symphony V in a performance from 1996:

[Atriod]

Would this be one of them?  The Symphony V in a performance from 1996:

It's not, they're on King not RCA. I will have to see if the King dates are the same as the ones on Hanssler.