I need a list of CDs that you think best captures the authentic sound/tone of a solo piano (or perhaps piano concerto.) I'd prefer the recommendations to be as popular and easy to find as possible. Great performance is a plus, but not required for this thread. I hope any of our resident pianists could weigh in on this topic.
I need to find a handful of CDs in my collection of solo piano works (and perhaps some piano concerto CDs) to use for setting up my stereo system. I have found that I am most picky about the sound of a piano and plan to use some CD recordings to determine how well various speaker positions work, but I want to use recordings that are exemplary. I recently made a lot of changes to my system and want to recalibrate it using some stellar piano recordings.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Hello George
One of the most stunning recordings for piano sound that I have is the Pollini late Beethoven, I can't believe that it was originally analogue. Can I also suggest that you use any of the Rubinstein '60s recordings that were produced by Max Wilcox.
But far and above all of these is the Perahia LvB PCs. Recorded in the Concertegebouw they are just superlative. OK, they are not solo piano, but the cadenzas alone will be enough to suffice.
Quote from: Holden on December 07, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
Hello George
But far and above all of these is the Perahia LvB PCs. Recorded in the Concertegebouw they are just superlative. OK, they are not solo piano, but the cadenzas alone will be enough to suffice.
This is what came to mind to me first as well (though I have only 4 and 5).
There are numerous other choices I would think. I have a Kocsis/Debussy discs that is in great sound. How about the Brahms trios (with Florestan Trio) - great sound. Godowsky/Hamelin is another.
Thanks guys!
I have the Pollini and will keep an eye out in the bins for the Perahia concertos.
Quote from: George on December 08, 2010, 03:20:30 AM
Thanks guys!
I have the Pollini and will keep an eye out in the bins for the Perahia concertos.
Hard times obviously. You're visiting bins?
Quote from: George on December 07, 2010, 08:02:46 PM
I need a list of CDs that you think best captures the authentic sound/tone of a solo piano (or perhaps piano concerto.) I'd prefer the recommendations to be as popular and easy to find as possible. Great performance is a plus, but not required for this thread. I hope any of our resident pianists could weigh in on this topic.
I need to find a handful of CDs in my collection of solo piano works (and perhaps some piano concerto CDs) to use for setting up my stereo system. I have found that I am most picky about the sound of a piano and plan to use some CD recordings to determine how well various speaker positions work, but I want to use recordings that are exemplary. I recently made a lot of changes to my system and want to recalibrate it using some stellar piano recordings.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi,
George. I just want to say that I don't share the criteria expressed in your post. If you are recalibrating your system all you need is your preferred recordings, those that you have known for centuries. Listening to those recordings you will easily notice every nuance introduced by the position or the configuration of your system.
Anyway, Lewis' Beethoven cycle on Harmonia Mundi has excellent sound quality.
Not solo piano, but those Beethoven's sonatas for violin and piano, recorded by Bayley/Dinnerstein on Telarc, also have a superb sound quality. :)
When I audition systems and components I always take Stockhausen's Klavierstücke (Aloys Kontarsky on Sony Classical) along with a few other reference recordings. Klavierstück I and VII are the pieces of choice; sometimes IX also.
You will have to decide what the most realistic sounding recording. I see above someone has cited as the best ever the recording that sticks out in my mind as one of the worst audio recordings I have heard, the Pollini late Beethoven set. Klangy, Metalic, sounds like a piano with stainless steel hammers. My impression is that they did a much better job with Gilels (Op 109) done about the same time.
There are different philosophical approaches to recording piano. Some recordings make you feel you are in a concert hall with the piano on stage, some make you feel as though there is a piano in your living room, some make you feel as though you have stuck your head into the piano and closed the lid. DG generally specializes in recordings that sound like you have put your head between the hammers and the strings, and they are beating directly on your eardrums.
Hyperion often has a very fine piano sound. I recently listened to a recording of Faure Piano music with Kathryn Stott which had a very pleasant, natural sound. Telarc is another label that did very well in it's glory days, the O'Conor Beethoven piano sonata recordings have a pleasing natural sound. For older analog material, Philips always did a good job. Decca I normally like less, often a bit tubby with too much impact (impression that microphones are too close for my taste). But in the end, I could not identify one recording that is superior to peers. All these recordings were made with essentially identical equipment, afterall, and each label had it's own recording style which they applied more or less consistently.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 08, 2010, 05:59:54 AM
You will have to decide what the most realistic sounding recording. I see above someone has cited as the best ever the recording that sticks out in my mind as one of the worst audio recordings I have heard, the Pollini late Beethoven set. Klangy, Metalic, sounds like a piano with stainless steel hammers.
Totally agree. I hated the sound of the Pillini late Beethoven. That's hardly the sound of the piano anymore.
However, Nojima's Ravel and Liszt piano recording on REFERENCE has the most magnificent and natural piano sound.
I agree with Scarpia regarding different philosophies of piano recording. Do you want an up-close or more distant recording? For my money, more distant recordings tend to sound more realistic, but I often prefer an up-close perspective. Anyway, some recordings, usually of the more distant variety, that sound especially realistic include:
- Christian Zacharias' MDG recordings of Mozart, Schubert, and Scarlatti
- Russell Sherman's recordings of Beethoven (GM Recordings) and Schubert (Albany)
- John O'Conor's Beethoven, Schubert, and Mozart recordings on Telarc
- Robert Silverman's Diabelli Variations (Stereophile) and Mozart (IsoMike), though both have background noise
- Jean Bernard Pommier's Beethoven sonatas, especially the earlier sonatas, on Erato
- Arcadi Volodos' solo recordings of Schubert, Liszt, and the recent Vienna recital
- Gerard Willems' Beethoven (though the Stuart and Sons piano sounds rather different than normal)
- Francine Kay's Debussy Preludes on Audio Ideas
Quote from: Todd on December 08, 2010, 06:47:04 AM
- Christian Zacharias' MDG recordings of Mozart, Schubert, and Scarlatti
- John O'Conor's Beethoven, Schubert, and Mozart recordings on Telarc
- Jean Bernard Pommier's Beethoven sonatas, especially the earlier sonatas, on Erato
These are three I have and also admire for their audio engineering. They are on labels that generally have high standards for engineering and have a philosophy that values natural, rather than spectacular, sound. I would include Hyperion in that catagory.
The one I used when I was deciding on a hifi was Arrau's late Schubert D958.
The best piano recording I recall is the Bernard Roberts WTC set on Nimbus; unfortunately, the Roberts performances are not so good.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 08, 2010, 07:36:43 AM
The best piano recording I recall is the Bernard Roberts WTC set on Nimbus; unfortunately, the Roberts performances are not so good.
Nimbus? I normally find their recordings too reverberant, but I don't recall listening to any of their recordings of solo piano.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 08, 2010, 08:29:47 AM
Nimbus? I normally find their recordings too reverberant, but I don't recall listening to any of their recordings of solo piano.
I have about 5 and, you are right, REVERBERANT is the word. Any more reverberance I'd hear echoes (and I don't want to "hear it twice" in that way!).
Quote from: Scarpia on December 08, 2010, 08:29:47 AM
Nimbus? I normally find their recordings too reverberant, but I don't recall listening to any of their recordings of solo piano.
Yes, that's the general perception and nobody hates a lot of reverberation more than I do. With many Nimbus piano discs, it sounds as if I'm swimming across the Atlantic. However, there was no problem with the Roberts set.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 08, 2010, 09:14:27 AM
Yes, that's the general perception and nobody hates a lot of reverberation more than I do. With many Nimbus piano discs, it sounds as if I'm swimming across the Atlantic. However, there was no problem with the Roberts set.
I have the Bernard Roberts set of Bach Partitas on Nimbus and agree it's not nearly as swimmy as many Nimbus recordings can be. In fact, it's quite nice and natural. Perhaps in this case Roberts had a hand in steering Nimbus toward something more realistic.
Something from Connoisseur Society might be worthwhile. The three CS discs I have (all Schumann) are superb. Not to mention those CS Moravec recordings - from the 60's! - still retain a powerful punch. Although the most successful CD reissues are the mostly OOP VAI discs, while the more recent Supraphon reissues come in a pale second.
Quote from: Holden on December 07, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
One of the most stunning recordings for piano sound that I have is the Pollini late Beethoven, I can't believe that it was originally analogue.
Question: how can Holden's sonic impression be so favorable when Scarpia and springrite hate the same recordings BASED ON THE SAME CRITERIA? Two possible answers (among others, no doubt): It could be the specific transfers each has heard...or it could be the audio equipment and set-up that each one evaluated the recordings on. And that, after all, is what our friend George is concerned with.
In any case, I wrote most of the response below this morning but waited until I got home this evening to listen to the Pollini late Beethoven for myself. I've owned the original analog LP set for nearly 30 years. I can't recall it sounding a bit metallic or clangorous except when played on less-than-ideal turntables or distorting from being played too loud (amp pushed to clipping and/or the speakers unable to cope). This I verified this evening by listening through the op.110, which has plenty of instances of isolated treble notes that have the opportunity to shatter...and enough "two hands descending forcefully" moments that should manifest clangor or rough distortion. No such problems showed up. Rather, I found pretty much what I'd remembered: the sonic transients that convey dimensional information--occasional key sounds, the wooden body resonance of the piano, the sustaining tone of the strings "hanging" in air, etc.--are all excellent, yet the musical lines too are powerful, forthright and easy to follow (thus putting it in a different league from "audiophile" recordings per se). In short, folks, I fear that I officially fall in the Holden "it's great" camp. Scarpia and springrite...sorry, guys. Your comments really have me wondering if there aren't some badly transferred CDs out there misrepresenting the sonics available in the original. However...
While I agree with Holden re the Pollini late Beethoven, DGG did an even better job on Pollini's box set of 20th century piano solo music recorded around the same time (Stravinsky Petrushka, Prokofiev sonata 7, Webern, etc.; I have some individual LPs but not the entire set). Really. I'm not kidding. These are eerily realistic on LP. For those who are curious, the DGG recording supervisor in both cases was Rainer Brock; the recording engineer for the Beethoven was Klaus Hiemann, and on at least some of the 20th century stuff it was Heinz Wildhagen. Unfortunately, good as these recordings are in their CD transfers, this is a case where digitizing robbed them of just that last ounce of magic, so that they're about equivalent to the Beethoven in the CD copies I have. Of course, that still might make them quite good for setting up a system! George, please take note.
BTW, except for these Pollinis and a handful of other recordings, DGG was notoriously BAD in recording piano. Well...mediocre might be a kinder word...they could often be muffled on one side or clangorous on the other, or most typically middle-of-the-road blah. Superior sounding exceptions include the original releases of Kempff's Beethoven concerti with Leitner (early 1960s!): the earliest pressings offered incredibly realistic piano sound, though coupled with less than impressive sonics in the orchestral backing...and even the great piano sound went away in later pressings and transfers! I once owned one of those early releases of the 4th concerto, which unfortunately had too many cartridge-threatening potholes in the surface to allow safe play, but I was SO amazed by the piano sound that I have looked (in vain) more than 20 years for a clean pressing with the same sonic characteristics. At this point, I've probably purchased between one and two dozen copies looking for that elusive magic--but no luck!
Back to suggestions for George: as you've been told (on another board...ahem!), the Connoisseur piano recordings by E. Alan Silver are astonishingly good. One fellow on the web has referred to Moravec's Chopin Nocturnes, noting "the sound of the Boesendorfer Imperial Grand (8 full octaves, 97 keys! manufactured at Busoni's behest by the German piano makers) and the unbelievably realistic – and atmospheric – recording by E. Alan Silver's team." The sonics were amazing in their analog vinyl form, the moreso because the LP format all too often seemed to inflict a quaver on isolated piano sound, especially if one's turntable wasn't up to snuff. However, Moravec wasn't the only pianist recorded by Silver: Ruth Laredo's Scriabin complete sonata traversal (on a Baldwin IIRC), Joao Carlos Martins' first traversal of the Bach WTC (NOT the Tomato label CD recordings, which are later ones; unsure of the piano used), and others were also impressive.
Beyond these, I have to look to smaller specialty labels to suggest piano sound. It's been a while since I heard Nojima's Liszt and Ravel recordings (I have the original LP releases), but these "Professor Johnson" recordings on the Reference Recordings label were impressive when they first came out...and had enough performance merit to remain on my collection shelves. Someone (springrite?) mentioned these already and I concur. Great stuff. You might see how their CD counterparts sound.
I'll also second the suggestion that you listen to assorted BIS recordings.
I'll let others make suggestions for purely digital recordings. However much more GENERALLY reliable piano solo recordings have became in the mature digital age (the early digit-ridden efforts weren't always kind to the tone), I can't recall many "Wow, that's realistic!" reactions to specific recordings, either. Hence my emphasis on analog recordings here.
Good luck. Audio system set-up can be slow and frustrating, but Oh! the wondrous sounds when you get it right!
Cheers,
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on December 08, 2010, 07:36:16 PM
Question: how can Holden's sonic impression be so favorable when Scarpia and springrite hate the same recordings BASED ON THE SAME CRITERIA? Two possible answers (among others, no doubt): It could be the specific transfers each has heard...
Could very well be this, dirk. Those Originals CDs tend to sound worse than the actual Original CD. I fortunately have an early pressing/mastering of these sonatas and put it on this morning before work. It was exactly what I was looking for, a nice solid piano image and a modern enough recording so that the overall sound quality was excellent. So, thanks Holden!! :)
QuoteBack to suggestions for George: as you've been told (on another board...ahem!), the Connoisseur piano recordings by E. Alan Silver are astonishingly good.
Indeed, I spun the Moravec Nocturne CD this morning as well and it sounded lovely. Nice dark, solid piano tone.
QuoteHowever, Moravec wasn't the only pianist recorded by Silver: Ruth Laredo's Scriabin complete sonata traversal (on a Baldwin IIRC),
Ooooh! I have that one, will check it out, thanks!!!
QuoteGood luck. Audio system set-up can be slow and frustrating, but Oh! the wondrous sounds when you get it right!
Cheers,
Dirk
Thanks, Buddy!! You're so right, it's well worth every bit of effort in the end! Like getting a new system without having to spend a dime.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 08, 2010, 04:32:23 AM
Hi, George. I just want to say that I don't share the criteria expressed in your post. If you are recalibrating your system all you need is your preferred recordings, those that you have known for centuries. Listening to those recordings you will easily notice every nuance introduced by the position or the configuration of your system.
Perhaps I didn't say, but I have never had the fortune of living in a situation where I could properly set up my stereo. Nor did I have the knowledge (and assistance) that I now have. Therefore, relying on memories of sound in inferior situations would not be an approach I would care to choose for this endeavor.
Quote from: dirkronk on December 08, 2010, 07:36:16 PMHowever, Moravec wasn't the only pianist recorded by Silver: Ruth Laredo's Scriabin complete sonata traversal (on a Baldwin IIRC)...
I have Laredo's set on CD. It IS extremely high-quality-sounding in terms of "realism" (extraordinary, actually). But didn't I read somewhere that Nonesuch could've done an even
better job with the transfer, as it failed to live up to the original LP? Or am I remembering that wrong? Either way I haven't heard the original Connoisseur release so I haven't any first-hand knowledge myself.
QuoteI'll let others make suggestions for purely digital recordings. However much more GENERALLY reliable piano solo recordings have became in the mature digital age (the early digit-ridden efforts weren't always kind to the tone), I can't recall many "Wow, that's realistic!" reactions to specific recordings, either. Hence my emphasis on analog recordings here.
The little labels are where it's at these days as far as realism in piano reproduction. The "wow" factor is alive and kicking I assure you! Labels such as Ondine, Dux, Calliope, BMC (Budapest Music Center Records), Naïve, and MDG do such quality work it's hard to imagine the piano enthusiast going wrong.
Sometimes of course aural results depend on the producer, which means even among these small labels divergences happen. But so far my impressions have been favorable and I really think if the piano enthusiast looks hard enough the analog "wow" factor is certainly within reach. :)
I have many great sounding piano recordings, including several of those mentioned. However, the best sounding piano recording I have ever heard is a rather obsure disc called "Grand Piano Masters--Appassionata" by pianist Lilya Zilberstein, by a German company called K & K (number KuK02), recorded live in a castle in Germany in 2007. It is without doubt the most spectacular sounding piano recording I have heard, and the playing of Beethoven's Op.57 (Op2.,n.2 is also included) is as good as I have heard, especially when you consider it was a live concert. I doubt the CD is still available, and I got it used (it was expensive). Zilberstein also recorded some Brahms for the same label, presumably at the same concert (KuK01?), but I don't have that CD. Well worth tracking down, both for the sound and the amazing performance by Zilberstein. Jerry Dubins in Fanfare reviewed it, so I snapped it up when I saw it in the used bins.
Actually, Amazon US does list the Zilberstein recording as still being available new as an import--to the cool tune of $45 (I paid $25 used). Might be available cheaper in Europe.
Was listening to Gilel's Hammerklavier, which I found to be a bit of a let-down, but that's the topic for another thread. For contrast I popped Pollini's recording in, particularly the second movement. The performance was far superior, from my point of view, probably my absolute favorite. This time I am listening to the "Originals" release, previously I had the first CD issue, a full price box set from the 80's. The sound is not as bad as I remembered it. I wouldn't say it was outstanding (there are a lot of recordings from the same era which I find more satisfying) but in the new release I'd say it is acceptable. I have the impression that the low frequency response is not so truncated and the equalization is generally more natural, compared with the older remaster. This is my general experience with the "Original" remasterings. Often they seem indistinguishable from the earlier releases, but there have been a few cases where they have reversed low-frequency anemia which seems to have been a holdover from the days of DG LPs.
Quote from: Oldnslow on December 09, 2010, 01:40:36 PM
Actually, Amazon US does list the Zilberstein recording as still being available new as an import--to the cool tune of $45 (I paid $25 used). Might be available cheaper in Europe.
There was one copy available from Amazon DE for €22 (I just hit the buy button) and a few more from Marketplace sellers. Thanks for the tip.
Sarge
Sarge, please post your reaction to this recording.
Gekic's Liszt Transcendental Etudes on JVC.
Quote from: Drasko on December 11, 2010, 03:55:16 AM
Gekic's Liszt Transcendental Etudes on JVC.
Yep, those sound great! Great performance, too. :)
Quote from: Oldnslow on December 10, 2010, 07:47:52 PM
Sarge, please post your reaction to this recording.
I will but it might be awhile. Although Amazon claimed it was in stock (one copy anyway) the order confirmation email estimates a delivery date of 5 to 8 January. >:(
Sarge
Just an off shoot:
The Malinova sisters on Koch playing Barber/Persichetti,... they even give thanks to Yamaha for some especially nice sounding instruments, which have a very sweet, domestic sound. Anyone?
I have Bernard Roberts playing Hindemith on Nimbus, and I can vouch for the excellence of the sound here. Plus, it's just a great set.
The Aki Takahashi/Xenakis disc on Mode has an unearthly clarity, which I suspect is the 2006 re-mastering (it's that 24/7,... or 96,... conv?).
What about Pogo on DG?
How is the Hyperion Rachmaninov?
I am of the philosophy that there can be only one way to do the perfect piano sound, and do not all of these discs mentioned do that? Sure, slight variations, but always that rich shimmering,... I too remember the Kocsis/Debussy on Philips,...PERFECT! Reference,...PERFECT,...and so on. But, don't they all have exactly the right amount of ambience? And, ambience can either be the perfected inside-the-piano, or the perfected outside-the-piano "style" (a style still needs to have perfect sound to qualify, that's why styles don't matter, IMO).
btw- there seems to be developing a consensus of the Top20.
yes,... I waaas fishing for a poll!!
Quote from: snyprrr on December 11, 2010, 08:47:32 PM
What about Pogo on DG?
Variable. Depends on the disc, really. Overall probably best to look elsewhere.
Velimir's thread asking about Messiaen piano and organ works made me remember one of the most astonishingly lifelike piano albums I've ever owned...again on vinyl: a Vox Box of Messiaen Catalogue d'oiseaux. The pianist was Jocy De Oliveira-Carvalho (I had to look it up on the web...no way could I have remembered otherwise), there were four records rather than the usual three in the Vox Box, and pressing and groove spacing were done well enough to make for utterly outstanding sonics. Not sure who the engineer was. However, at the time I owned it, I wasn't yet ready to appreciate the music...not sure I am today, truth be told...and so I sold it long ago. But Oh! the sound! Truly amazing.
Dirk
Dirk - all your great posts about stuff on vinyl almost has me wanting to get a TT. :)
Quote from: George on December 16, 2010, 04:13:04 PM
Dirk - all your great posts about stuff on vinyl almost has me wanting to get a TT. :)
;D
I had wondered about that. Dirk's posts are always illuminating but thinking about it I don't
remember you ever mentioning a turntable, George! ;D
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on December 16, 2010, 04:21:52 PM
;D
I had wondered about that. Dirk's posts are always illuminating but thinking about it I don't remember you ever mentioning a turntable, George! ;D
I had one when I was a kid, but the very portable cassettes soon came along and I never looked back.
Quote from: George on December 16, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
I had one when I was a kid, but the very portable cassettes soon came along and I never looked back.
Yep. I remember those days. :)
Quote from: Oldnslow on December 09, 2010, 01:34:58 PM
I have many great sounding piano recordings, including several of those mentioned. However, the best sounding piano recording I have ever heard is a rather obsure disc called "Grand Piano Masters--Appassionata" by pianist Lilya Zilberstein, by a German company called K & K (number KuK02), recorded live in a castle in Germany in 2007. It is without doubt the most spectacular sounding piano recording I have heard, and the playing of Beethoven's Op.57 (Op2.,n.2 is also included) is as good as I have heard,
I luckily got a copy of this recently and I am now playing the Appassionata. The piano sound is very nice, if a bit more distant than I prefer. The performance is excellent, especially the finale, which maintains a high level of excitement, while also maintaining a high level of technical precision. My only complaint would be of the opening movement, where I felt like she was holding back a bit too much.
The one with all the Super ear candy.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SXX176XSL._AA115_.jpg) Lewenthal Liszt Alkan
(http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/image.html/BVCC-38334) Ogdon Liszt
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K8TsPBsiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Rachmaninov/Zenph, Rachmaninov
(http://arstrio.tw/pic/CD/Shura-Cherkassky-Encores.jpg) Cherkassy Godowsky/Albeniz, Sindling, Moszkowsky, Paderewski, Rebikov
(http://www.oliviermessiaen.org/MessiaenHatto2a.jpg) "Joyce Hatto" Vignt Regards
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21ddzrSNaBL._AA115_.jpg) Orozco Chopin Scherzos
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31FWX133M3L._AA115_.jpg) Pollini Boulez Prokofiev
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/hansslerhaen93703.jpg) Arrau Beethoven Brahms
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Kfq5FwngL._AA160_.jpg) Volume 46, Carnegie Hall, 1966, L'isle joyeuse, Scriabin10
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YWE4Z85ML._AA115_.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41272K8474L._AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41272K8474L._AA115_.jpg) Tureck, Great Pianists recordings of the Bach Partitas and Goldbergs
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EUl_A5FQhIE/TdvTk3bh7rI/AAAAAAAABaw/qzyu90vNcdI/s320/Front%25286%2529.jpg) Richter, Une Barque Sur L'ocean
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RGD1WCEZL._AA115_.jpg) Michelkangeli Chopin Turin 1962
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41IXSNJu9EL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Michelangeli Debussy Scarlatti
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q71I758-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Sokolov Chopin Op 25
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yTAG4iTZL._AA115_.jpg) Sokolov Beethoven Op120
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GXF03E1FL._AA115_.jpg) Muraro Tombeau
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TgzplwlpL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Cziffra Liszt
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J13HCPREL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Cziffra Chopin Polonaise and Hungarian Rhapsodie
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WTZDKV4XL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Kempff D946 (Schubert)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511r6V%2BhsKL._AA115_.jpg) Kempff Brahms Sonata
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518gCq8ZSEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Gilels Symphonic Etudes
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Nonesuch-79063-Schumann-Brahms-MORAVEC-piano-NM-1984-LP-/00/$(KGrHqQOKiIE30FkQUDKBN-nlueih!~~0_3.JPG) Moravec Schumann Brahms
Pretty much every Moravec studio CD, the Natan Brand sole studio recording, Gilels's DG incomplete set of Beethoven sonatas, Richter's Schubert, The Master 2CD set....
That's a great list. I know there's a Thread already here we could get stacked on, but I can't find it.
Pollini/Boulez 2/Prokofiev 7
Pogo/Prokofiev 6
Kocsis/Debussy (Ph.)
Could it be this one?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7156.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7156.0.html)
I guess if the emphasis is on performance quality then it must not be this thread:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17632.msg471267.html#msg471267
for best sound quality.
TTT
Paul Lewis' Beethoven, which allowed me to like this music for the first time.
There was an interesting conversation about Pollini's Beethoven. I have it on DGG "Originals" and it is really a very good sounding disc for me. And Pollini's playing is involving, powerful and technically superb. I had it on DGG LP also but when I compared it to the CD release I didn't notice any difference.
MODS, feel free to absorb me into one of these other Threads.
Quote from: snyprrr on August 12, 2011, 07:02:07 AM
What's TTT? 'There's The Thread'?? haha ;)
To The Top (near as dammit though). :)
8)
Quote from: Todd on December 08, 2010, 06:47:04 AM
I agree with Scarpia regarding different philosophies of piano recording. Do you want an up-close or more distant recording? For my money, more distant recordings tend to sound more realistic, but I often prefer an up-close perspective. Anyway, some recordings, usually of the more distant variety, that sound especially realistic include:
- Christian Zacharias' MDG recordings of Mozart, Schubert, and Scarlatti
- Russell Sherman's recordings of Beethoven (GM Recordings) and Schubert (Albany)
- John O'Conor's Beethoven, Schubert, and Mozart recordings on Telarc
- Robert Silverman's Diabelli Variations (Stereophile) and Mozart (IsoMike), though both have background noise
- Jean Bernard Pommier's Beethoven sonatas, especially the earlier sonatas, on Erato
- Arcadi Volodos' solo recordings of Schubert, Liszt, and the recent Vienna recital
- Gerard Willems' Beethoven (though the Stuart and Sons piano sounds rather different than normal)
- Francine Kay's Debussy Preludes on Audio Ideas
Thanks for this very good list. And it helped me to discover the Francine Kay (and to regret the absence of a Book 2)
Additions welcome
Quote from: Mandryka on September 19, 2022, 01:00:53 AMThanks for this very good list. And it helped me to discover the Francine Kay (and to regret the absence of a Book 2)
Audio Ideas has both books. Analekta has Book I only.
Thanks.
I've just been listening to a fabulous Preludes Bk 2 from Pollini in concert in Amsterdam in 1974. When Pollini's on form, he's impressive.
TTT
Quote from: George on November 24, 2022, 01:18:55 AMTTT
TTT may have many meanings. Here is a short survey:
https://www.abbreviations.com/TTT
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 24, 2022, 02:19:30 AMTTT may have many meanings. Here is a short survey:
https://www.abbreviations.com/TTT
Hi Premont, In internet forums, I have always seen it used as "to the top," another way of saying bump. Like here, in this thread, posted above:
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 11, 2011, 04:13:46 AMTTT
I just thought of a new recording for the thread, Wasowski's Chopin Nocturnes. Gorgeous sound and playing.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41ARQ6ZNSJL._SL500_.jpg)
Gianluca Cascioli's digital recordings from the last decade or so all sound amazing. (His analog Debussy recording does not fall into this category, though it sounds about as good as a contemporary analog recording can.) His 900 recording focusing on Austrian and German compositions remains perhaps the best sounding piano recording I have heard.
Quote from: Todd on November 24, 2022, 07:25:43 AMGianluca Cascioli's digital recordings from the last decade or so all sound amazing. (His analog Debussy recording does not fall into this category, though it sounds about as good as a contemporary analog recording can.) His 900 recording focusing on Austrian and German compositions remains perhaps the best sounding piano recording I have heard.
Thanks, Todd!
How about Roberto Plano's Fazioli
https://open.spotify.com/album/7jmxIIoH5zCt8iRwGzynjP
Quote from: Mandryka on November 25, 2022, 02:45:20 AMhttps://open.spotify.com/album/7jmxIIoH5zCt8iRwGzynjP
Oh yes, that is an awesome sounding recording. Some other Decca Italy recordings also sound magnificent - eg, some from Maurizio Baglini.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 25, 2022, 02:45:20 AMHow about Roberto Plano's Fazioli
https://open.spotify.com/album/7jmxIIoH5zCt8iRwGzynjP
Thanks, I'll check that one out.
Quote from: George on November 25, 2022, 05:17:58 AMThanks, I'll check that one out.
A Fazioli F278
https://www.productionhub.com/press/68709/the-authentic-sound-of-a-fazioli-grand-piano-is-captured-by-dpa-microphones
It's an SACD, but I've never heard better:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU0NDc2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NDY0Njg1NzR9)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51crmZR5w9L.jpg)
Channel Classics and Cobra records each release consistently wonderful sounding piano recordings, and Hannes Minnaar has fantastic recordings on both labels:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61QZrCew0IL._SL600_.jpg)
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/pc/uk/zhjwup1seukpc_600.jpg)
I have very hi-res download versions, but I imagine the CDs sound great, too.
Quote from: Bachtoven on November 26, 2022, 12:52:30 PMI have very hi-res download versions, but I imagine the CDs sound great, too.
What is "very hi-res", a new marketing phrase?
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 01:08:34 PMWhat is "very hi-res", a new marketing phrase?
No, just a phrase that I used to avoid getting into technicalities--so much for that idea. They are DSD files with a sampling rate 128 times that of a normal PCM recording.
Quote from: Bachtoven on November 26, 2022, 02:47:26 PMThey are DSD files with a sampling rate 128 times that of a normal PCM recording.
Ah, DSD, the dead and worthless format. Got it. I guess that counts as a "technicality".
Why not go for DSD 1024? It should sound oodles better. Oodles is a technical term.
This sounds very good, too.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51PzdzX-ejL._SX425_.jpg)
Quote from: Bachtoven on November 26, 2022, 02:47:26 PMNo, just a phrase that I used to avoid getting into technicalities--so much for that idea. They are DSD files with a sampling rate 128 times that of a normal PCM recording.
PCM recordings are made with sigma-delta ADCs that also sample at a rate hundreds of times higher than the output sample rate of a normal PCM recording.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2022, 07:49:22 PMPCM recordings are made with sigma-delta ADCs that also sample at a rate hundreds of times higher than the output sample rate of a normal PCM recording.
Yes, I'm very aware of other sampling rates. I was referring to the one used for CDs. Now, perhaps we can get back to recommending piano recordings?
BIS usually has fine sounding piano recordings, and this is certainly no exception.
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/bc/9s/wbsuhdbnq9sbc_600.jpg)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2022, 07:49:22 PMPCM recordings are made with sigma-delta ADCs that also sample at a rate hundreds of times higher than the output sample rate of a normal PCM recording.
DSD marketing focuses on the unique, special, purportedly more analog sound (whatever that means, aside from hiss - check out PS Audio's site) that this now dead technology brings to recording and playback. Not content with the special benefits imparted by the original tech, it has become more
advanced. www.nativedsd.com sells all flavors of DSD, from DSD 64 (the original) to DSD 1024. No recordings are made above DSD 256, but that does not prevent the sale of DSD 1024 downloads - for $50 a download. Including DSD 1024 transfers of analog recordings. (And you know you are on an audiophile approved site when you see the latest Patricia Barber recordings.)
Comparison charts claim that both DSD 256 and DSD 1024 have a noise floor approaching -200 dB and have resolution equivalent to 32-bit PCM. (Let that -200 dB figure sink in.) Never mind that humans can't hear and no playback gear or listening environment, consumer or commercial, can exploit that noise floor or a dynamic range above the physical limit of 21 bits.
Audiophiles are marketing connoisseurs.
The only reason the FTC has never become involved in the snake oil business that is high end audio is that the goods sold are niche, luxury products.
These two box sets have very realistic sound. Both are Hybrid SACDs.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4155TZ5fObL._SX450_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91M1HOKHlwL._SX425_.jpg)
Kodama's are available separately, but not Silverman's.
Quote from: Bachtoven on November 26, 2022, 09:42:23 PMBIS usually has fine sounding piano recordings, and this is certainly no exception.
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/bc/9s/wbsuhdbnq9sbc_600.jpg)
One of the many reasons this album is astonishing.
Quote from: Brian on November 27, 2022, 07:32:33 PMOne of the many reasons this album is astonishing.
Absolutely! I haven't been commenting on the playing since the OP just asked about sound quality. His brand new recording is amazing, too. Contains Beethoven-Liszt Symphony No.3 and Mozart-Alkan Piano Concerto No.20. The playing and sound are both wonderful.
The playing on all of my suggestions is top-notch.
Lots of great suggestions. I'd like to add these two:
(https://www.talkclassical.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.talkclassical.com/attachments/1669827209098-png.179381/)
(I have the LP set, but based the the Berman CD above, I imagine Audifon's CD sounds great, too.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bAyQWl97L._SY300_.jpg)
This is quite a realistic recording, and the playing is spectacular. (Granados' "Goyescas" in case the title is hard to read!)
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51vrNdIEcwL.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=aeeb0ad20602086939fd9b9cd44135f992faa2f5009ecefade7804a2397b96f0&ipo=images)
Maybe the sound is too good to be "realistic" but the audio that Louis Lortie gets from Chandos is uniformly exceptional.
The best piano sound I've heard has been on recordings produced by Manfred Dahlhaus for Telos. This guy's a real genius and clearly Telos value sound quality enough to give him what he needs.
https://www.discogs.com/artist/4054152-Manfred-Dahlhaus
I just noticed that some of it's streaming, the Mahler songs for example, if anyone's curious about what it sounds like.
Take a peek at this review of Dahlhaus's work with Schickedanz in Brahms:
https://tinyurl.com/34stffud
It is hard to remember a more virulent put-down of audio quality. Mandryka, please tell us your audio system components.
Quote from: MickeyBoy on December 02, 2022, 01:26:00 PMTake a peek at this review of Dahlhaus's work with Schickedanz in Brahms:
https://tinyurl.com/34stffud
It is hard to remember a more virulent put-down of audio quality. Mandryka, please tell us your audio system components.
Ha, well I haven't heard that one. It is on Centaur, not Telos - but nevertheless review like that is a very good sign.
(actually I just found it so will listen - it's on Qobuz.)
I have three systems at the moment - Quad ESL/Krell KSA50; Rogers JR149/Radford STA25; Spendor SP1/ Conrad Johnson solid state (forget the model number!)
Quote from: MickeyBoy on December 02, 2022, 01:26:00 PMTake a peek at this review of Dahlhaus's work with Schickedanz in Brahms:
https://tinyurl.com/34stffud
It is hard to remember a more virulent put-down of audio quality. Mandryka, please tell us your audio system components.
Rather like MDG sound. The violin is too close, but maybe that's realistic.
Quote from: MickeyBoy on December 02, 2022, 01:26:00 PMTake a peek at this review of Dahlhaus's work with Schickedanz in Brahms:
https://tinyurl.com/34stffud
It is hard to remember a more virulent put-down of audio quality. Mandryka, please tell us your audio system components.
So, I suspect that Celeste didn't enjoy listening to that CD? :-\
PD
Quote from: Mandryka on December 02, 2022, 01:47:10 PMRather like MDG sound. The violin is too close, but maybe that's realistic.
The reviewer seems to be referring to this recording, not an MDG:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/wc/3c/idrevsxc63cwc_600.jpg)
I agree with "Celeste" that his tone is a bit scratchy, but it's definitely not a dry recording. For the record, this is my stereo system:
B&W 803D3 speakers
McIntosh MA9000 integrated amp
Esoteric K-03 SACD player
VPI Prime Signature turntable/Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge
Sennheiser HD800s, Audeze LCD-X headphones
I have to say, I think Uchida's Diabelli Variations should get a mention in this thread - it is realistic, and you're centre front row. It is in every way an impressive release.