Georg Philipp Telemann

[Chris_Holmes]

Telemann's Wassermusik Overture great—you're telling me this is only one of 600 of his works in the genre?! I'll have to track down that Mühler-Brühl recording. Is it on period instruments? I have one Naxos Telemann recording, concertos with Richard Edlinger & the Capella Istropolitana. Not really HIP at all, but I like the sound of the ensemble so it's OK.

As far as I know from the Quebec TWV Catalogue, there are 138 identified Overtures (Suites). I have so far managed to accumulate 93 of them.

Wassermusik is one of my favourites, & I prefer Musica Antiqua Koln's recording of the 10 versions I have.

Another easily available fun favourite is the Alster 55F11 for 4 horns, 2 oboes, 2violins & bass, where Telemann imitates the cries of frogs in the Hamburg marshes (9 versions).

55D6  Suite for Viola da Gamba has been widely recorded (I have 9 versions).

55G10 Burlesque de Quichotte is another piece that's fun to listen to (9 versions also).

55B11 La Bourse was written about the 1720 Stock Market Crash !!!

55a2 Suite for recorder, strings & bass is the most recorded - I have over 20 versions of that.

[Chris_Holmes]

Does anybody know the TWV catalogue numbers for the pieces in Der getreue Music-Meister ?

I have versions by both Josef Ulsamer & Camerata Koln, but neither of them has catalogue numbers.

[DaveF]

Does anybody know the TWV catalogue numbers for the pieces in Der getreue Music-Meister ?

These are the numbers as recorded in the Telemann Masterworks box (also Camerata Köln), rather untidily stripped straight from my iTunes library.  (The pieces without numbers are by other composers):

Sonata for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:F2
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Sage mir doch nichts von Liebe
Partita in G, TWV.32:1
Polonaise for flute or violin and basso continuo, TWV.41:D4
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Nimm dein Herz nur wieder an
L'hiver for solo instrument and basso continuo, TWV.41:d1
Etliche contrapunktische Veränderungen des ersten Takts der Telemannischen Sonatinen
Suite for oboe and basso continuo, TWV.41:g4
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - Es glänzet die Unschuld
Sonata in B flat for 2 recorders, TWV.40:107
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - So oft du deinen Schatz wirst küssen
Pastourelle for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:D5
Canon mit 14 Verkehrungen, gesetzt von Mr. Zelenka
Capriccio for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:G5
Das Frauenzimer verstimmt sich immer, TWV.25:37
Sonata for cello and basso continuo, TWV.41:D6
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Vergiß dich selbst, mein schönster Engel
Air for trumpet and basso continuo, TWV.41:C1
Marche pour M. le capitaine Weber und Retraite in F, TWV.35:1
Einige plötzliche Eintritte in entfernte Accords
Suite in D for harpsichord
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - Süsse Worte, werte zeilen
Niaise in E, TWV.41:E2
Suite in D, TWV.40:108 'Gulliver's Travels'
Thema zur Fuge, nebst 5 eingeschickten Auflösungen
Carillon, TWV.40:109
Menuett for 2 horns, TWV.40:110
Duetto, TWV.41:B3
Cher souvenir
Fantasia in D
Pastourelle for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:D5
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Più del Fiume
Napolitana, TWV.41:B4
Trio-sonata, TWV.42:C1
Sonata for bassoon and basso continuo, TWV.41:f1
Presto
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Ergrimmet nicht, ihr holden Augen
Gigue for violin solo in A minor
Die verkehrte Welt, TWV.21:23 - Glückselig ist, wer alle Morgen
Suite in D
Die verkehrte Welt, TWV.21:23 - Scena
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Die Kuh, doch halt!
La poste, TWV.35:2
Sonata for viola da gamba solo in D, TWV.40:1
Calypso, TWV.21:19 - Gedoppelt schön
Trouble-Fête
Canon a 3 in hypodiapente et hyperdiatessaron
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Gesundheits-Brunnen, warme Bäder
Sonata for oboe and basso continuo, TWV.41:A3
Pièce in C for harpsichord
Sonata for violin and basso continuo in F
Canon a 4, BWV.1074
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Bum bum bum, faranno i timpani
Ouverture burlesque for harpsichord in D minor, TWV.32:2
Sonata for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:C2
Ich kann lachen, weinen, scherzen, TWV.20:15
Canon a 4
Sonata for flute and violin in G, TWV.40:111
Suite in B flat
Säume nicht, geliebte schöne TWV.25:38
3 Themata zu Fugen
Sonata for violin and basso continuo, TWV.41:g5
Sinfonie à la françoise for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:h2
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Ich folge dir
Sonate for viola da gamba and basso continuo, TWV.41:G6
Bizaria for violin and basso continuo
Belsazar, TWV.25:11 - Daß ich mich dir ergeben sollte
Giga for violin and basso continuo

[Chris_Holmes]

Thanks so much. You've saved me hours of searching. With the catalogue numbers I can  add both box sets to my Telemann by numbers library.



I'm wanted at the traffic jam
They're saving me a seat. Leonard Cohen

[Chris_Holmes]

During recording I just noticed that the Pastourelle in your list occurs on both CD1 & CD2.
I assume that that's just an iTunes cockup: the part on CD2 should be just labelled as a piece from a contributor, & not a Telemann work, according to the booklet.

___________________________________________________________________

"In the prison of the gifted
I was friendly with the guards"   Leonard Cohen

[DaveF]

You're very welcome, and thanks for the update.  Looking in my big Telemann box, I see that the pieces aren't numbered in there either, so where did I get the numbers from?  Did I really look them all up?  Who knows.  I used to work in music cataloguing at the BBC in the 1980s, so perhaps old habits don't die.

Perhaps I got them from here: https://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Getreue-Music-Meister-complete/dp/B00000E6W0

[Que]

Cross posted from the WAYLT thread for future reference:

Based on the albums I have streamed so far and really enjoyed, I have a mixed bag of ageing:

- Wind Concertos & String concertos (Musica Antiqua Köln - i haven't tried the various CPO series for mixed instruments)
- Tafelmusik (M.A.K. again and the Freiburger Barockorchester)
- Fantasias for flute (Berthold Kuijken, also Lazarevitch)
- Fantasias for violin (Grumiaux & Guglielmo)
- Paris Quartets (Freiburger again and also the Kuijkens with Leonhardt)
- Trio sonatas & other Scherzi (Parnassi Musici)
- Suite in A minor and Double Concertos (Oberlinger)

Any other artists/ensemble worth a listening to please?

You're right to mention Goebel and his MAK and the Kuijkens as early Telemann pioneers. Already quite the shortlist! 

Definitely second the recommendation for La Stagione Frankfurt with Schneider for the complete wind concertos and mixed concertos (CPO). Ditto for two disc of chamber music by the Camerata Köln:

Indeed. It was the Camerata Köln/La Stagione Frankfurt/Michael Schneider recordings on CPO that first showed me the light (and rather think it was you that first made me aware of them 👍).

Other ensembles/performers:
Epoca Barocca: Trios & Quartets (CPO)
Paolo Pandolfo: Fantasias for viola da Gamba (Glosa)
Münchener Cammer-Music: XII Solos à violon ou traversiere avec la Basse Chiffrée (accompanied flute sonatas) (NCA).

From the perfomers mentioned, Oberlinger and the Ensemble 1700 did a disc with accompanied sonatas and trio sonatas ("Telemann"). The Parnassi musici did a recording of trio sonatas with bassoon with Sergio Azzolini (CPO)

If you like the harpsichord, I'd recommend 36 Fantasias for harpsichord with Andrea Coen (Brilliant).

A totally other side of Telemann is shown in a beautiful selection of opera arias by Nuria Rial with the Kammerorchester Basel (DHM)

[Papy Oli]

Cross posted from the WAYLT thread for future reference:

You're right to mention Goebel and his MAK and the Kuijkens as early Telemann pioneers. Already quite the shortlist! 

Definitely second the recommendation for La Stagione Frankfurt with Schneider for the complete wind concertos and mixed concertos (CPO). Ditto for two disc of chsmber music by the Camerata Köln:

Other ensembles/performers:
Epoca Barocca: Trios & Quartets (CPO)
Paolo Pandolfo: Fantasias for viola da Gamba (Glosa)
Münchener Cammer-Music: XII Solos à violon ou traversiere avec la Basse Chiffrée (accomponied flute sonatas).

From the perfomers mentioned, Oberlinger and the Ensemble 1700 did a disc with accompied sonatas and trio sonatas ("Telemann"). The Parnassi musici did a recording of trio sonatas with bassoon with Sergio Azzolini (CPO)

If you like the harpsichord, I'd recommend 36 Fantasias for harpsichord with Andrea Coen (Brilliant).

A totally other side of Telemann is shown in a beautiful selection of opera arias by Nuria Rial with the Kammerorchester Basel (DHM)

Thank you for those @Que , I'll look those additional recs up.

[Jo498]

I think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music, such as the Donnerode (Thunder ode) with Max (Capriccio) and the harmonia mundi disc with funeral cantatas; this has also a more recent issue with a plain, mostly white cover (that's the one I have) and some of these cantatas have also been recorded by different ensembles. Not included here, but IIRC there are two Telemann cantatas that used to be ascribed to Bach.

[Papy Oli]

I think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music, such as the Donnerode (Thunder ode) with Max (Capriccio) and the harmonia mundi disc with funeral cantatas; this has also a more recent issue with a plain, mostly white cover (that's the one I have) and some of these cantatas have also been recorded by different ensembles. Not included here, but IIRC there are two Telemann cantatas that used to be ascribed to Bach.

Apologies @Jo498 I saw your post on the weekend and forgot to respond. I already have Donnerode queued on Idagio (the Hickox version, which on short sampling of the singing I preferred to Max). I still need to listen to the work as a whole. I did try some of his cantatas on CPO too but was a bit underwhelmed and from memory, one male voice rubbed me the wrong way. I'll seek that HM recommendation of yours. Thank you.

[Que]

I think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music [...]

You're right, and I'm planning explore his choral output more. It is just that from the little I have heard sofar, in choral music Telemann's style does not "stand out" as it does in his chamber music... but perhaps I haven't explored enough. Does his choral music have a similar "unique seling point"?

Thanks for the recs.   
One of the things I was considering, is his "Brockes Passion".. Any thoughts are welcome.

[DavidW]

Thanks for the recs.   
One of the things I was considering, is his "Brockes Passion".. Any thoughts are welcome.

I love that work and listen to it a few times a year.  I haven't heard the particular recording you've posted though.

[Que]

I love that work and listen to it a few times a year.  I haven't heard the particular recording you've posted though.

I believe the other option - McGegan - has been OOP for years now. There was a short lived  reissue on Brilliant, if I remember correctly.

[Herman]

My mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself. We have a violin / harpsichord book with a bunch of pieces from the interminable Getreue Musik Meister and most often I just play the fiddle part by myself, very enjoyable, no harm done.

The famous Twelve Fantasias (violin or flute) are more ambitious, but still playable, which is the last thing you can say about the Sei Sonata by one JSBach. Perhaps Telemann wasn't pushing the envelope so much.

And, yes, things have gotten much better in Telemann performance compared to the decades people just played Telemann or Vivaldi to make a living.

[vers la flamme]

Is there a living to be made in playing Telemann?

[DavidW]

My mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself.

I'm in neither camp.  I stream Telemann, I don't own a single cd.  And I can't play any musical instruments.

Welcome back Herman!

[Florestan]

My mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself. We have a violin / harpsichord book with a bunch of pieces from the interminable Getreue Musik Meister and most often I just play the fiddle part by myself, very enjoyable, no harm done.

The famous Twelve Fantasias (violin or flute) are more ambitious, but still playable, which is the last thing you can say about the Sei Sonata by one JSBach. Perhaps Telemann wasn't pushing the envelope so much.

And, yes, things have gotten much better in Telemann performance compared to the decades people just played Telemann or Vivaldi to make a living.

I can't play the violin or amy other instrument. Listening to recordings of Telemann music is the next best option for me. 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Is there a living to be made in playing Telemann?

There was in the 18th century.

My mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself. 

I have a grand total of 1 Telemann CD. It's a very nice Naxos of the Darmstadt Suites, i.e. orchestral suites. Believe it or not, I am not capable of playing orchestral music all by myself. Maybe the listeners of the future will have more than two hands and one mouth, but I don't.

[Herman]

What I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.

[Que]

What I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.

I guess he did get a bad rap for his less ambitious output, but Telemann did also wrote interesting music for professional musicians. If you know where to look there is a lot to enjoy.