Europe at War

71 dB · January 25, 2023, 03:05:11 AM

Quote from: Florestan on January 25, 2023, 01:50:57 AMFinally, something we can agree upon.

Having a bias doesn't mean you are wrong. If your bias is that 2 + 2 = 4 and my bias is that 2 + 2 = 3.14, we both are biased, but you are the one who is correct and I am the one who is incorrect. Someone calling you biased just makes other people think you could be just as wrong as I am. That is one of the biggest problems we have, the 50 - 50 thinking on issues that are not 50 - 50, but 100 - 0 or maybe 99 - 1. If flat Earthers (and climate change deniers/anti-vaxxers/etc.) are given the same benefit of doubt as sane people, then we can expect people be unsure of whether the Earth is flat or not. The danger of debating lunatics is that people watching the debate are given a reason to take the lunatic seriously.

Florestan · January 25, 2023, 03:47:07 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on January 25, 2023, 03:05:11 AMHaving a bias doesn't mean you are wrong.

Of course not. For instance, I have an anti-Russian bias but I am not wrong in stating that in 1812 Russia annexed the Moldovan territory of Bessarabia and in 1940 they annexed it again, this time along the Romanian territory of Northern Bukovina. Todd has an anti-NATO bias but he is not wrong in stating that in 1999 NATO bombed the sovereign state of then Serbia and Montenegro into accepting the carving up of their territory.

The point is that one cannot avoid having a bias and the idea of absolute and disinterested neutrality is a myth. That's why I objected to Todd's calling the IISS "not a neutral source"; there is no such thing as a neutral source.

71 dB · January 25, 2023, 04:12:23 AM

Quote from: Florestan on January 25, 2023, 03:47:07 AMThe point is that one cannot avoid having a bias and the idea of absolute and disinterested neutrality is a myth. That's why I objected to Todd's calling the IISS "not a neutral source"; there is no such thing as a neutral source.

Neutrality is about not taking sides. So, if you express something from the perspective of all biases, you are effectively neutral, but being neutral isn't a particularly good thing! Saying the Earth could be flat, but it could just as well be a globe is neutral, but not good at all for informing/educating people about facts.

Objectivity on the other hand is about seeking for the truth whatever it happens to be. The side is chosen and it is the truth, even when it is against personal bias. Objectivity requires intellectual honesty and is "difficult."

Subjectivity is when personal bias dictates whether the chosen side is the truth or not. The truth is favoured whenever it is convenient for supporting the bias, but otherwise not. Subjectivity is easy and tempting making it common.

A person of media literacy and at least some knowledge of the World can notice when for example a news story is neutral, objective or subjective. Neutral-looking information is often subjectivity in disguise and that's the reason why pure neutrality is rare.

Todd · January 25, 2023, 04:16:32 AM

I suggest people here read Bernays.

Todd · January 25, 2023, 04:21:47 AM

From DW - it's made for minds, after all: 'Doomsday Clock' moves closer to midnight amid Ukraine war

drogulus · January 25, 2023, 07:42:39 AM

The US is not sending Abrams tanks to fight. It's sending them so other tanks will be sent to fight.

It's part of the deal with Germany.

The US is increasing production of 155mm artillery shells by 500%. Stocks are running low so the US needs to replenish its own supply as well as send more to Ukraine.

The US is sending 160 M777 Howitzers and over a million rounds for them as of the most recent aid package. There will be more.

Todd · January 25, 2023, 07:49:56 AM

From CNN: US finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, two US officials say

Escalation = Progress.

drogulus · January 25, 2023, 08:02:07 AM

Doctors are not neutral between the disease and the cure. Should I worry?

71 dB · January 25, 2023, 08:21:26 AM

Quote from: drogulus on January 25, 2023, 08:02:07 AMDoctors are not neutral between the disease and the cure. Should I worry?

If doctors were neutral they would say you may have cancer or you may not and if you have cancer, any treatment might cure you or then they might not. You don't want such doctors. You want your doctor to be objective.

drogulus · January 25, 2023, 10:02:53 AM

Tanks are good at progress against entrenched opponents. They were invented for that.

Trench warfare can go on for years with little progress by either side. That's not too controversial, is it? Blitzkrieg means a shorter war with fewer civilian deaths. Russia would have to negotiate with words backed by immediate action, the only negotiation that could matter.

The Ukrainians will agree not to fire on Russians leaving the country. The Russians will agree to leave primarily by leaving. Papers will be signed, too.

It will be up to the US to keep Russia from total collapse to the extent any outside power can. Russia may collapse itself beyond any help, something that preoccupies US planners. They want Russia to survive defeat.

Spotted Horses · January 25, 2023, 11:05:26 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on January 25, 2023, 08:21:26 AMIf doctors were neutral they would say you may have cancer or you may not and if you have cancer, any treatment might cure you or then they might not. You don't want such doctors. You want your doctor to be objective.

That's not what being neutral means.

Madiel · January 25, 2023, 12:26:13 PM

Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 25, 2023, 11:05:26 AMThat's not what being neutral means.

Agreed. This particular linguistic byway doesn't look like it's going to be entertaining...

Todd · January 26, 2023, 07:15:21 AM

Time's Puppet of the Year speaking to the National Association of State Chambers of Commerce gathering, which was held in Boca Raton this year. The good stuff starts at around five minutes in. Nice to hear BlackRock, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs mentioned by name. They like it too:

Zelensky is a very brave puppet.

drogulus · January 26, 2023, 08:12:36 AM

There's one wrinkle on the German tank story. The Germans and several other NATO countries have cheaped out on maintenance and many of these tanks are in poor shape. It's within the realm of possibility that a factor in German reluctance to send them is sheer embarrassment at having their naughtiness exposed.

So much for the hypothesized threat to Russia posed by an imminent NATO invasion. I think you'd have a hard time convincing a genuine no shit Russian general that NATO tanks would be driven to Moscow direct from long term storage depots. That's TuckerPutinist level stuff. Big Brains are better than that.

Rebuilding Ukraine will generate wealth the same way rebuilding the US does when we do it. That's how economies grow, when they're built.

drogulus · January 26, 2023, 08:30:45 AM

The Uke media is reporting on the anti-corruption actions by Zelensky. It's outward facing, so I'm meant to see it, but that's OK.

Zelensky wants foreign investment to rebuild his country. Fighting corruption seems like a good idea considering. The US probably didn't need to suggest how these are linked, though it wouldn't surprise me if the subject came up.

Here's how I'd do it. I'd say to His Puppethood "You know the TuckerPutinists are salivating at the chance to sink you. I think you better get ready for that. Do it! Do it now!!".

He probably decided fighting corruption was a good idea on his own. He's one smart Puppet.

Karl Henning · January 26, 2023, 09:10:31 AM

Quote from: drogulus on January 26, 2023, 08:30:45 AMHe probably decided fighting corruption was a good idea on his own. He's one smart Puppet

Biden cannot like the puppet's being smart. Putin wouldn't stand for a smart puppet!

drogulus · January 26, 2023, 10:48:18 AM

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 26, 2023, 09:10:31 AMBiden cannot like the puppet's being smart. Putin wouldn't stand for a smart puppet!

He thinks he's a little boy. No tanks for you!

drogulus · January 26, 2023, 11:29:22 AM

Watch the skies.

The world is awash in F-16s. The Netherlands wants to send some of theirs to Ukraine. After a suitably pointless delay (we have to get used to the idea, right?), it will probably happen.

It's a good plane, and though it's a little bit ancient, it's been modernized to use a variety of most excellent air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.

The word is training will begin soon. The nonword is training in the US has been going on for months.

Madiel · January 26, 2023, 12:52:30 PM

Quote from: drogulus on January 26, 2023, 08:30:45 AMThe Uke media is reporting on the anti-corruption actions by Zelensky. It's outward facing, so I'm meant to see it, but that's OK.

Zelensky wants foreign investment to rebuild his country. Fighting corruption seems like a good idea considering. The US probably didn't need to suggest how these are linked, though it wouldn't surprise me if the subject came up.

Here's how I'd do it. I'd say to His Puppethood "You know the TuckerPutinists are salivating at the chance to sink you. I think you better get ready for that. Do it! Do it now!!".

He probably decided fighting corruption was a good idea on his own. He's one smart Puppet.

Given that fighting corruption was a key theme of his TV show aired in 2015, it's not a new idea for him.

LKB · January 26, 2023, 07:02:36 PM

Quote from: drogulus on January 26, 2023, 11:29:22 AMWatch the skies.

The world is awash in F-16s. The Netherlands wants to send some of theirs to Ukraine. After a suitably pointless delay (we have to get used to the idea, right?), it will probably happen.

It's a good plane, and though it's a little bit ancient, it's been modernized to use a variety of most excellent air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.

The word is training will begin soon. The nonword is training in the US has been going on for months.

Preliminary training in the A-10 has also been going on for a while, on a small scale. But the Falcons will probably get there first, and even if the Warthogs are approved for delivery it will presumedly be in smaller numbers.