Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[DaveF]

Need recommendations for Symphonies No. 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9 that are intense, vigorous, helter-skelter, go for broke and in good sound (available on Spotify too.)

I wouldn't particularly recommend Chailly in no.6, but he's worth a listen for the most earth-shattering hammer-blows in the finale (unless anyone else knows different...)

[Jo498]

1. Walter or Kubelik/DG, the latter has better sound but still not particularly great sound. I don't like any other as much, despite sometimes better sound.
2. Probably Mehta for combination of performance+sound
5. Bernstein/DG, Solti/Decca for combination of performance+sound
6. Bernstein/DG, Solti/Decca for combination of performance+sound, Kondrashin/Melodiya (ferocious in decent Soviet sound)
Edit: I skipped #9 because favorites are either in dated sound (Klemperer, Maderna) or in good sound but not fiery (Gielen)

[Cato]

Any thoughts on the recent Bychkov Mahler discs? Are these high voltage performances or more "stately"?

No idea, but here is a taste:

https://www.semyonbychkov.com/featured-releases/


And from 1998:

[lordlance]

I listened to Petrenko's Mahler 6 just once on spotify, but it sounded very fine to me; the orchestra had great intensity and energy, but also lyricism, and in particular, percussion was incredibly thunderous (well, no great suprise as it is the Berliner Philharmoniker, which also showed a clear, detailed sound). He reversed the order of the Scherzo (placed third) and the Andante moderato (placed second), but that wasn't a problem to enjoy the recording.

It is not a problem indeed as one can restore it back to Scherzo-Andante. From your description it sounds like it was a good, maybe great, concert that doesn't stand up to the competition.

I would respectfully suggest that folks recommending von Karajan for the Ninth might want to specify the live 1982 recording, since the earlier studio analogue effort is still available.

No worries. I know Karajan's remake is universally considered the better of the two records.

[Spotted Horses]

I would respectfully suggest that folks recommending von Karajan for the Ninth might want to specify the live 1982 recording, since the earlier studio analogue effort is still available.

I prefer the studio recording.

[calyptorhynchus]

I've been listening to the 2007 recording of Das Lied sung in Cantonese.



Someone earlier on this thread criticised the recording claiming that it was a poor performance and the words sung 'weren't Cantonese'. (Though this is from memory as I can't find the post again).

As far I can hear this is a pretty good performance from an orchestra that presumably doesn't play much Mahler (and Das Lied is one of the most difficult works in the repertoire). However the recording is very flat, and even boosting the volume doesn't improve it much. The tenor tries very hard and some of his performance is thrilling, with a real sense of the work being performed with the original lyrics (Cantonese was chosen as the pronunciation is closer to Tang dynasty court Chinese than modern Mandarin).

However the main problem is the soprano, who has to sing the majority of the words. She belongs to the 'No consonants need apply' Joan Sutherland school of singing where all you hear is an endless procession of vowels. Most of the time she could be singing almost any language, it could almost be the original German mangled. Only in the last five minutes does her diction get clearer and you can hear that it is in fact Cantonese (or at least some Chinese language).

Was this the problem that the original poster was talking about, or is it a problem with the concept of singing the original vocal line to a translation into a tonal language where the contours of the line contradict the tones?

[Jo498]

I have never heard it and don't know any Chinese but the project seems not attractive to me and a bit misguided. AFAIK, Mahler used free translations (in German) of free translations (from Chinese to French). They were so liberal with the sources that it took scholars a lot of work to identify some of the source poems correctly. It's not authentically Chinese but a European fin de siècle idea about old imperial China as a source of a somewhat different but still compatible kind of wisdom and poetry.

[LKB]

I have never heard it and don't know any Chinese but the project seems not attractive to me and a bit misguided. AFAIK, Mahler used free translations (in German) of free translations (from Chinese to French). They were so liberal with the sources that it took scholars a lot of work to identify some of the source poems correctly. It's not authentically Chinese but a European fin de siècle idea about old imperial China as a source of a somewhat different but still compatible kind of wisdom and poetry.

Agreed.

If Mahler had been able to access an authentic source, and if he had possessed enough practical knowledge of Cantonese and its subtleties to employ it when composing, the resulting work would be something significantly different from the work we know.

While the BIS/Shui might have some academic interest, l don't think it should be accepted as a viable interpretation of DLvdE.

[Todd]

It's been a while since I last bought a new - as in new, new - Mahler 4.  Well, here's one.  Now, Jakub Hrůša ain't new to me.  He waves the stick in FPZ's reference recording of Martinu's VCs as well as in Ivo Kahanek's crackerjack recording of PCs by Dvorak and Martinu.  So the dude can accompany the best of 'em - literally.  This here conductor-oriented work is the first where Hrůša's the main draw.  (Kinda - more on that momentarily.)  He doesn't miss a beat.  The entire symphony is perfectly paced, never sluggish and never rushed, and it packs a wallop when it needs to, especially in the Adagio.  This is a pandemic recording, with players more spread out than normal, and perhaps as a result of that, the sound is strikingly transparent, with different blobs o' instruments sounding pristinely clear.  The playing sounds modern day conservatory perfect.  It's not over the top indulgent (though Mahler's music fairly invites that) and it's not wimpy.  It's top notch.  That gets driven home by what turns out to be the co-main draw: Anna Lucia Richter.  Holy smokes!  When she first enters, her lower register has a heft and perfection that immediately made me think of the great Juliane Banse with Boulez - and things get better from there.  Her high notes, just a bit highlighted, perform the vocal equivalent of throwing cold water in the lister's face, grabbing the listener's lapels, and brusquely yet tenderly seducing the listener, all at once.  So pure is her tone, so ridiculously controlled and precise, so captivating, that she almost pulls of an Isabel Bayrakdarian, forcing the listener to scramble to buy gobs of new recordings.  No, I shan't do that.  I shall restrain myself.  I shall daintily sample her Brahms, and only her Brahms.  I swear. 

Hrůša is now a name I shall seek out, and fortunately the ongoing Brahms/Dvorak outings look enticing.  He must record a complete Mahler cycle.  He must.

[Roasted Swan]

It's been a while since I last bought a new - as in new, new - Mahler 4.  Well, here's one.  Now, Jakub Hrůša ain't new to me.  He waves the stick in FPZ's reference recording of Martinu's VCs as well as in Ivo Kahanek's crackerjack recording of PCs by Dvorak and Martinu.  So the dude can accompany the best of 'em - literally.  This here conductor-oriented work is the first where Hrůša's the main draw.  (Kinda - more on that momentarily.)  He doesn't miss a beat.  The entire symphony is perfectly paced, never sluggish and never rushed, and it packs a wallop when it needs to, especially in the Adagio.  This is a pandemic recording, with players more spread out than normal, and perhaps as a result of that, the sound is strikingly transparent, with different blobs o' instruments sounding pristinely clear.  The playing sounds modern day conservatory perfect.  It's not over the top indulgent (though Mahler's music fairly invites that) and it's not wimpy.  It's top notch.  That gets driven home by what turns out to be the co-main draw: Anna Lucia Richter.  Holy smokes!  When she first enters, her lower register has a heft and perfection that immediately made me think of the great Juliane Banse with Boulez - and things get better from there.  Her high notes, just a bit highlighted, perform the vocal equivalent of throwing cold water in the lister's face, grabbing the listener's lapels, and brusquely yet tenderly seducing the listener, all at once.  So pure is her tone, so ridiculously controlled and precise, so captivating, that she almost pulls of an Isabel Bayrakdarian, forcing the listener to scramble to buy gobs of new recordings.  No, I shan't do that.  I shall restrain myself.  I shall daintily sample her Brahms, and only her Brahms.  I swear. 

Hrůša is now a name I shall seek out, and fortunately the ongoing Brahms/Dvorak outings look enticing.  He must record a complete Mahler cycle.  He must.

Recently appointed principal conductor of the Royal Opera House Covent Garden - so you are not alone in your admiration!

[Todd]

Recently appointed principal conductor of the Royal Opera House Covent Garden - so you are not alone in your admiration!

Perhaps I will write a letter encouraging all involved to put on a new production of Lulu.

[Roasted Swan]

Perhaps I will write a letter encouraging all involved to put on a new production of Lulu.

yes do - but he doesn't take over until 2025.......

[Todd]

yes do - but he doesn't take over until 2025.......

I'd count myself lucky if a new production takes place this decade.

[Leo K.]

I just listened to these back to back recently, as I'm catching up on my Mahler 9's released the past few years.

Haitink's approach to Mahler's Symphony No. 9 in his (release in 2021?) recording may be characterized as deliberate and measured. The slower tempos perhaps allow for a deep exploration of the emotional nuances within the score. However, I found the slower pace to be overly cautious, potentially diminishing the momentum and intensity that can be found in faster interpretations.

On the other hand, Vanska's 2023 recording presents a more flowing interpretation, but also somewhat "removed" or "cool" sounding with some interesting "shifts" between sections. The beginning bars sound like Webern. This approach accentuates the symphony's dramatic contrasts and evoked a visceral response from me. I think the straightforward pacing lends itself to a more immediate and immersive experience.

Some listeners may appreciate Haitink's introspective and measured approach, valuing the depth and emotional exploration it offers. Others may gravitate towards Vanska's more "removed" or "cool" interpretation, finding its momentum and immediacy to be more engaging.

This can change with more listens too.

[Mapman]

Haitink's approach to Mahler's Symphony No. 9 in his (release in 2021?) recording may be characterized as deliberate and measured. The slower tempos perhaps allow for a deep exploration of the emotional nuances within the score. However, I found the slower pace to be overly cautious, potentially diminishing the momentum and intensity that can be found in faster interpretations.

The Haitink was recorded in 2017. Here's the full list of recording dates (copied from Discogs):

Recorded:
• 29 Mar 2019 (Symphony No. 1)
• 15 Dec 2018 (Symphony No. 2)
• 13 Jun 2014 (Symphony No. 3)
• 22 Mar 2014 (Symphony No. 4)
• 27 Oct 2018 (Symphony No. 5)
• 25 Jan 2020 (Symphony No. 6)
• 26 Aug 2016 (Symphony No. 7)
• 18 Sep 2011 (Symphony No. 8 )
• 3 Dec 2017 (Symphony No. 9)
• 18 May 2011 (Adagio Symphony No. 10)

[brewski]

Next Saturday, May 27, at 7:30 pm (EDT), the Cincinnati May Festival will broadcast the Eighth (looks like audio only) as the festival finale, conducted by Juanjo Mena.

Tune in on YouTube or on the Cincinnati Public Radio website.

https://mayfestival.com/concerts-and-events/buy-tickets/2023-season/mahlers-symphony-of-a-thousand/live-broadcast/

-Bruce

[LKB]

The Eighth is always an event, regardless of who is performing it. I wish the conductor, orchestra and vocalists all good luck. ( assuming this is live... ) 

[brewski]

Next Saturday, May 27, at 7:30 pm (EDT), the Cincinnati May Festival will broadcast the Eighth (looks like audio only) as the festival finale, conducted by Juanjo Mena.

Tune in on YouTube or on the Cincinnati Public Radio website.

https://mayfestival.com/concerts-and-events/buy-tickets/2023-season/mahlers-symphony-of-a-thousand/live-broadcast/

-Bruce

UPDATE: tomorrow night's conductor is now James Conlon. Interestingly, I heard him 20 years ago in the same piece, when he made his debut with the Minnesota Orchestra. (Rhetorical query: who makes his initial appearance with the Mahler 8? )

[relm1]

Next Saturday, May 27, at 7:30 pm (EDT), the Cincinnati May Festival will broadcast the Eighth (looks like audio only) as the festival finale, conducted by Juanjo Mena.

Tune in on YouTube or on the Cincinnati Public Radio website.

https://mayfestival.com/concerts-and-events/buy-tickets/2023-season/mahlers-symphony-of-a-thousand/live-broadcast/

-Bruce

Ohh cool!  My friend is in the orchestra, I'll ask him if this is going to be good.  Nah, I'm kidding - I'm sure it will be great!

[LKB]

UPDATE: tomorrow night's conductor is now James Conlon. Interestingly, I heard him 20 years ago in the same piece, when he made his debut with the Minnesota Orchestra. (Rhetorical query: who makes his initial appearance with the Mahler 8? )

Rhetorically speaking, it's probably either his first program with the orchestra, or his first time conducting M8.

If it were his debut, that would be quite a feat...