Beethoven piano sonata shoot-out

[Todd]

Over the past several months, I worked through four complete LvB piano sonata cycles, including one bad cycle and the worst cycle yet recorded.  (One hopes no one records anything worse.)  Whilst refreshing the Most Scientifically Accurate and Objective Ranking System^® known to humankind, I thought it was about time that I clean up the top of the second tier, which includes an unsatisfying eleven cycles.  It must be ten, so a proper top ten can be followed by a second best top ten.  It just makes aesthetic sense.  It also allows for a sussing out of comparative greatness sufficient to ultimately be compared to the top ten, so a refreshed, rejuvenated, and new and improved top ten can be sorted out at some point. 

It's just too time-consuming to listen to all thirty-two sonatas eleven times, so I decided to go with a sampling approach.  Relying on objective rigor that would make Schneider-Kreuznach engineers envious, I selected five sonatas to get to the bottom of this pressing question.  The first round consists of A/Bing two pianists in Opp 10/3 and 31/3.  The second round compares Opp 28 and 78 from the first-round winners.  The third round compares Opp 110 from the second-round winners.  Since eleven pianists are involved, Irina Mejoueva, in her second cycle for Bijin, earns a first-round bye.  While I expect each bracket to have a winner, in the unlikely event of a tie, a coin flip will decide the victor.  So, let the games begin.





Match 1: Fazil Say vs Arthur Schnabel

 

In Op 10/3, Schnabel plays the Presto quite swift in the quickest passages, but he backs off, with perfect fluidity, to play some passages a bit slower, but with perfect flow.  The slow burn Largo epitomizes late 19th century romanticism.  The note imperfect Menuetto has plenty of verve, as does the concluding Rondo.  It had been a while since I last listened to Schnabel's take, and it is indeed good stuff.  Say starts a bit slower, speeds up, amps things up, and uses rubato as deftly as Schnabel.  The Largo is wildly different, with no repeat, and played at a swift tempo, with tension throughout.  It works, just not as well as Schnabel's take.  The Menuetto sounds lovely in the outer sections, and punchy in the middle, while the Rondo has ample verve.  But Schnabel takes it.

In 31/3, Schnabel is pretty much all about verve and speed and playing that veers right to the edge of recklessness.  Such a style works rather well here.  Say opts for more variation in tempo and especially dynamic contrasts, coming close to overthinking the piece.  Fortunately, the end result nevertheless yields ample energy and wit.  And the lightness of touch in some of the playing really hits the spot.  He offers a distinct take on the Scherzo, which, while not slow, sort of rolls along at a relaxed tempo, and his playing in the outer sections of the Menuetto are quite lovely.  Overall, Say is pretty close to Schnabel in this sonata, just different.

Winner: Schnabel

[George]

Should be a fun thread. I have always loved my Schnabel set (on Naxos Historical CDs.)

[AnotherSpin]

Quite an illustration of the scientific approach

[Todd]

Match 2: Kazune Shimizu vs FFG

 

Kazune Shimizu starts 10/3 with crisp, clean, brisk playing, with nary a note out of place, and a perfectly classical mien.  The Largo sounds controlled and mixes drama and reserve nicely, with a rock-steady slow tempo and a satisfyingly loud climax.  The Menuetto and especially Rondo are delivered with pep and clarity.  Nice.  FFG starts faster, and the more closely miked piano sounds beefier.  FFG does not play with the same clarity as Shimizu, but he almost glides along with a sense of serious playfulness in the Presto.  The Largo comes off slightly pressed sounding, rather dramatic, and kind of episodic, but in the best way.  The close, bass-rich recording yields nice forte playing and an overall dramatic feel.  The tuneful outer sections and playful middle section of the Menuetto really hit the spot, and the Rondo just exudes fun.  FFG takes this one.

Shimizu's 31/3 sounds clean and proper, with beefy bass sforzandi and forward momentum.  The Scherzo is left-hand led, and that left hand is again steady, steady, steady.  The Menuetto meets the Moderato e grazioso definition, that's for sure, and the Presto con fuoco displays snap, crackle, pop, and nice sforzandi.  FFG offers playing that's more or less the same in terms of tempi, but the playing is less about clean articulation than about groovy forward motion and flexibility.  This is a live recreative event.  Which one is better, clean and straight-forward or flexible and mischievous?  It's a mood thing and damn close to a tie. 

Winner: FFG, by the slimmest of margins. 

[Todd]

Match 3: Minsoo Sohn vs Paul Badura-Skoda



Sohn opens ever so tentatively in the Presto of 10/3, but that quickly moves to just slightly slower than some other reading playing, but playing possessed of almost crushing forte blasts, though of the entirely non-banging variety.  Serious as the plague, it's also immediately inviting, in one of the great "how'd he do that?" feats of pianism.  Come the Largo, and Sohn heads right for Schnabel territory in terms of slowness and drama.  A minute swifter at a still slow 10'34", Sohn wrings serious, nearly severe drama from the music, and the build up to the climax and the climax itself both hit the spot.   The Menuetto and Rondo both come off direct and serious, and just super-swell.  PBS offers a different approach and soundworld with his instrument, and there's more than a little roughness in the sound when compared to the refined and controlled to the Nth degree Sohn.  PBS has the energy, the swagger, the drive in the Presto, but it falls short of the essentially perfect opening from Sohn.  The larger relative shortcoming appears in the Largo, where right from the outset the dynamic limitations of the instrument limit dramatic potential.  But PBS goes as far as possible with an ancient instrument.  (How one wishes Andras Schiff would revisit Beethoven with HIP keyboards as he did with Schubert.)  Tense and dramatic on its own terms, PBS delivers the goods.  In the outer sections of the Menuetto, PBS makes the instrument hop, making it sound like rustic dance music, and in the Rondo he gets down and boogies.  Still, it's Sohn, in one of the great recordings of the work.

In 31/3, Sohn starts off just a bit reserved in the Allegro, and maintains a refined approach, but one where he lets the left hand lead in spots and where the build-up in dynamics always works, and the dual dynamic levels sound swell.  Sohn then revs up in the Scherzo, backs off, revs up, and then blam, pounds them keys.  It's refined, good fun.  The outer sections of the Menuetto flow beautifully, while the middle section is slow with exaggerated dynamic contrasts, and the Presto con fuoco boogies and thunders as it should.  PBS starts his Allegro similarly to Sohn, it just sounds smaller and rougher.  The wide dynamic contrasts of course sound more limited, but nonetheless they sound nice.  The minute dynamic contrasts probably sound a bit better.  The Scherzo has ample pep, and here PBS, and presumably microphone placement or mixing desk levels, juice the forte volume a bit.  The Menuetto comes across as a scaled down version similar to Sohn's, and the Presto con fuoco has ample, colorful boogie.  But when following a proper modern grand version, it doesn't compel as much.

Winner: Sohn

[Todd]

Match 4: Takahiro Sonoda vs Wilhelm Backhaus



Time for a showdown between two grand old men of different national traditions, Takahiro Sonoda for the Japanese, and Wilhelm Backhaus for the German.  Sonoda starts 10/3 with an almost perfect speed Presto, neither rushed nor slow.  The playing sounds blended and "natural" in that inhuman clarity is not on offer, though the recorded perspective sounds just right.  The Largo is tense and slow, though it could be slower.  It could not really be more serious, though, and the climax is potent but not overwhelming.  The Menuetto and Rondo both remain comparatively serious, though the latter has some serious pep.  Backhaus - in the latest 2019 remaster for the complete Decca box – is recorded much closer, which blunts dynamic contrasts, and as is so often the case, he skips repeats.  Also, as is so often the case, the playing sounds right.  Serious but not dour, quick but not rushed, it just flows.  That applies to all movements.  Alas, the older fingers do not sound as secure as Sonoda's in the Presto.  The shortened Largo also sounds too sped up in places for satisfactory impact.  The Menuetto and Rondo both work well enough and have a sort of free sound compared to Sonoda, but Sonoda gets the nod.

For 31/3, Sonoda starts off slowish in the Allegro and remains on the serious side, even when he the pianist clearly relishes the musical witticisms.  The steadiness appeals here, it must be noted.  That steadiness carries over into the slow yet still quite effective Scherzo.  The Menuetto comes off serious and lovely, and in the Presto con fuoco, Sonoda loosens his tie just a bit, and maybe unbuttons the top button of his shirt.  Still serious in mien, it rollicks along nicely.  Backhaus also starts the Allegro slowly, and only gradually builds up speed to a moderately quick tempo.  He definitely plays with some rhythmic swagger, which he maintains in the nice jocular Scherzo.  The Menuetto alternates nicely between lyrical and punchy, while the Presto con fuoco has drive and heft, but remains slightly restrained in terms of tempo.  Backhaus may be slightly better here, but it's too close to call. 

Winner: Sonoda, by a silver hair

[Todd]

Match 5: Yu Kosuge vs Yusuke Kikuchi



Oh, why not?  Ms Kosuge, who belongs to the zero ugly notes school of Beethoven playing, and who is aided by Sony's premium recorded sound, launches 10/3 with a Presto with oodles of energy and nuanced dynamic contrasts.  It's not just the forte playing that catches the ear, but also the delicate diminuendos.  Golly, it sounds nice.  The rubato exhibits mucho taste and refinement.  She takes the Largo at a slow pace, but imbues it with enough energy and tension to satisfy.  And again, the small pauses, the touch, the lack of hardness all work splendidly, and the build-up to the climax is superb, but it is the coda where the best stuff is to be heard.  The Menuetto and Rondo both display a degree of tonal beauty absent from most other cycles, yet they have the snap and energy where needed.  Good stuff.  Mr Kikuchi, all swift, classical, and muscular, delivers a reading that's all, well, swift, classical, and muscular.  The playing at times sounds nearly nutso fast – past Prestissimo in the opening Presto, that's for sure – but the control is absolute and the tone never sounds hard, only appealingly metallic here and there.  His dynamic contrasts rock, too.  That becomes more evident in the crashing forte playing in the taut Largo, and those bracing arpeggios smack the listener upside the head.  And the fast playing in the last two movements beguiles.  There can be no doubt that Kikuchi offers much excitement in his reading, but Kosuge offers just that teeny tiny bit more enjoyment.

Kosuge starts 31/3 slow and quiet, and though her overall timing is a healthy 8'47", the opening Allegro chugs along nicely, with steady accompaniment and laughing melodies.  The clarity of voices Kosuge brings also just really works wonders, or at least sounds nice, depending on one's praise preference.  The Scherzo has nifty sforzandi, and what it cedes in ultimate speed, it more than makes up for in tiny little touches.  (To be clear, it ain't slow, either.)  Kosuge goes for slow and gorgeous in the outer sections of the Menuetto, and slow and punchy in the middle, while the Presto con fuoco remains just a bit broad, but the subdued but clear left hand playing bubbling under the right hand works well indeed, as does the slowish and loud playing.  (I do enjoy me some of that.)  Kikuchi shaves a minute off the Allegro, and the almost slow opening displays tension, things speed up and remain tense, and then things speed up even more, but doesn't sound pressed at all.  The Scherzo revs up further, has ear catching sforzandi, and gobs of energy.  The Menuetto sounds lovely and taut, and that Presto con fuoco, it just zips and rocks along, I tell you what.  As far as straight-ahead takes go, it's one of the best or maybe the best.  But Kosuge essentially matches it.

Winner: Kosuge, in an upset

[Todd]

Match 6: FFG vs Arthur Schnabel

Round two starts off with a Franco-Austrian war!  Very exciting, with stakes as high as in any war.  Schnabel starts Op 28 with a measured, flowing Allegro.  Dynamic contrasts sound perfect, repeated left hand notes sound insistent, right hand runs zippy.  It sounds right.  Pretty much as right sounding is the Andante, where the primary melody sound measured and lovely, while the second section sounds lighter, funner.  Funner yet is the springy, bouncy Scherzo, and the Rondo, a bit chunky rhythmically, nonetheless just kind of cruises along to the end.  Superb.  FFG starts the piece almost like a pianistic representation of waking up, gently and deliberately building up the music, culminating in a more tense climax to the development section than Schnabel.  FFG maintains a broader overall approach, yet manages to maintain nice tension in the Andante, with nicely contrasted sections, which continues with the Scherzo.  The stormy middle section and strong coda aside, FFG opts to bubble along gently in the Rondo.  This here's a tough call, but Schnabel takes it, just barely.

Op 78 finds Schnabel playing the opening Adagio cantabile in a very beautiful manner, and then going for a tense take on the Allegro ma non troppo.  He treats the piece very seriously, and some of the playing sounds as weighty as other middle period masterpieces.  The Allegro vivace is all energy and snap and drive.  Nice.  FFG starts off darker, richer sounding, then moves into zippy but almost dreamy playing, thanks to some fine legato.  I suspect some people may find it too much.  The Allegro vivace is zippy and punchy by turns.  Nice, again.  It's kinda touch to choose between the two pianists here.   

Winner: Schnabel

[Cato]

Match 4: Takahiro Sonoda vs Wilhelm Backhaus


Winner: Sonoda, by a silver hair

  NOOO!!!  Not possible!  Or should I write: NEEEIIIN!!!  Nicht Moeglich! ? 😇

Well, I guess I cannot argue with Science (?). 


When I return home, I will look into Mr. Sonoda!

[Atriod]

  NOOO!!!  Not possible!  Or should I write: NEEEIIIN!!!  Nicht Moeglich! ? 😇

Well, I guess I cannot argue with Science (?). 


When I return home, I will look into Mr. Sonoda!

Sonoda's Evica cycle is extremely good, I'd have to think about this some more to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it would make my top 10 cycles.

[prémont]

  NOOO!!!  Not possible!  Or should I write: NEEEIIIN!!!  Nicht Moeglich! ? 😇

Well, I guess I cannot argue with Science (?). 


When I return home, I will look into Mr. Sonoda!

Sonoda's Evica cycle is extremely good, I'd have to think about this some more to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it would make my top 10 cycles.

For some unknown reason Todd used Backhaus' stereo recording for comparison. The earlier mono recording is generally more successful.

I agree that Sonoda is good and well may be among my top ten cycles too. The many excellent cycles available are difficult to rank precisely. But Backhaus' mono is in my top two, Kempff's mono cycle being the other one.

If you read Todd's evaluations closely it's obvious that he first and foremost is led by his taste, like all of us.

[Brian]

For some unknown reason Todd used Backhaus' stereo recording for comparison. The earlier mono recording is generally more successful.

It is because he is trying to rank his personal #11-20, not his top 10, and the mono version is already in his top 10.

[prémont]

Yes, you are right

It is because he is trying to rank his personal #11-20, not his top 10, and the mono version is already in his top 10.

Yes, you are right. I have re-read the OP. However I didn't imagine this explanation, maybe because I don't see much purpose in ranking no.s 11 to 20. What's the next? Ranking no.s 21 to 30? One can go on ad libitum and the results wouldn't count for anyone.

[Florestan]

Yes, you are right
Yes, you are right. I have re-read the OP. However I didn't imagine this explanation, maybe because I don't see much purpose in ranking no.s 11 to 20. What's the next? Ranking no.s 21 to 30? One can go on ad libitum and the results wouldn't count for anyone.

It's just a vanity project.

BTW, the thread deals with two Beethoven piano sonatas —— the thread's title is inaccurate.

[Todd]

It is because he is trying to rank his personal #11-20, not his top 10, and the mono version is already in his top 10.

Minor correction: it's cycles 11-21. 

The overall objective was clearly stated in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the first post. 

BTW, the thread deals with two Beethoven piano sonatas —— the thread's title is inaccurate.

Incorrect.

[Atriod]

For some unknown reason Todd used Backhaus' stereo recording for comparison. The earlier mono recording is generally more successful.

I agree that Sonoda is good and well may be among my top ten cycles too. The many excellent cycles available are difficult to rank precisely. But Backhaus' mono is in my top two, Kempff's mono cycle being the other one.

If you read Todd's evaluations closely it's obvious that he first and foremost is led by his taste, like all of us.

I too prefer the Backhaus mono cycle in terms of performances, it is the cycle that sounds closest to what his various live recordings sound like in that extra bit of spontaneity/inspiration; which can make all the difference in the world compared to the stereo cycle even if his conception of the music on the two is similar.

That Backhaus mono cycle is squarely in my top 5. I just went through an old post I made on another board and Sonoda Evica does indeed make my top ten, at number 7/8/9 give or take as a couple of the cycles in that ranking are incomplete and one not really a cycle. Plus 5-10 are sort of hard to rank.

[Florestan]

Incorrect.

Comparison between Different Recordings of Two  Piano Sonatas by Beethoven

If the thread's title means the above, mea culpa.

[Todd]

Comparison between Different Recordings of Two  Piano Sonatas by Beethoven

If the thread's title means the above, mea culpa.

More than two sonatas are involved.  Basic stuff.

[George]

For some unknown reason Todd used Backhaus' stereo recording for comparison. The earlier mono recording is generally more successful.

Hi premont,

I compared the the performances in the mono and stereo sets a couple of years ago. I found the mono to be better in 9 of the 32 sonatas but only notably better in two sonatas. Op. 2/2 and 2/3 are much better in the mono set, but Op. 7, 10, 14, 22 are only a bit better in the mono set. Of course, Op. 106 was only recorded once, in mono so I don't count that one. So, for performance, I prefer the stereo set for 22/32 and 9/32 for mono. Since I find the sound quality to be much, much better, I reach for the stereo set when I want to hear Backhaus's Beethoven.     

[San Antone]

It's just a vanity project.

Todd has been posting his lists for a long time, with his tongue firmly in his cheek regarding the objectivity of his rankings.  That said, I find his reviews insightful, enjoyable to read, and his threads have brought to my attention a number of cycles that are well worth hearing. 

This is also true for his thread on Liszt's Années de pèlerinage.