GMG Classical Music Forum

Hello to my fellow guitarists,

I figured I would start this thread to 1. bring you all out of the woodwork (i. e. your basements ;) ), 2. so we can discuss gear, amplifiers, guitars however we wish, and 3. get to know our each other and our playing styles, etc.

I suppose I'll start:

After 22 years of playing the guitar, I believe I have finally arrived at the sound I've been hearing in my head for so long. Currently, I'm playing a Fender Squier Deluxe Telecaster through a Boss volume pedal which is then ran into a pedalboard of a Boss DS-1 distortion, a Strymon Timeline, and a Strymon BigSky and then my signal is split between two Jay Turser Classic-25RCs amplifiers. I have been thinking of connecting one of my looper pedals again, but I'm not really sure at the moment as the Strymon Timeline has a looping function.

Photos of my setup coming soon! 8)

Cool, will like to see the pics...

My pedalboard is currently in complete disarray, and I'm planning to make a second pedalboard as well and connect the two. Never seen it done before, though.  :-\

Quote from: greg on April 17, 2019, 08:02:50 AM
Cool, will like to see the pics...

My pedalboard is currently in complete disarray, and I'm planning to make a second pedalboard as well and connect the two. Never seen it done before, though.  :-\

What's the difference between connecting a second pedalboard and having a bigger pedalboard?

Are you also planning an amp that goes to 11?

:)

I have three guitars, two of which are in a state of poor repair.

Gibson ES-335 (black)
Gibson Dove (Red sunburst)
Gibson L-5 Super 400 (traditional sunburst).

The one that is in great shape is the oldest, dating to the early 70's. The ES-335.

On the Super-400 all of the gold electroplate on the metal hardware corroded and pealed off, leaving it very ugly. The wood is splintering on the Dove. They were both made during one of Gibson's many low points (early and late 80's). In all fairness they all suffered multiple relocations across the North American continent, and at one point to Calgary, Alberta. Being transported in a moving van through January weather in Alberta can't be good for them.

The bottom line, Gibson was a leading edge manufacturer that made great instruments in its heyday, but later mostly made overpriced crap.

At this point I do not have a guitar amplifier, or even a patch cord. Probably what I need is a gadget to plug the guitar into which would create an appropriately distorted sound for listening on headphones or playing through a stereo system.

I should post photos, if I can find time to get them out of their cases.

     I have 2 guitars, 2 basses, and a variety of amps and cabs. One of the basses was store bought, everything else was custom made. I tend to be techno-obsessive about my stuff, even though I'm not technical enough to build equipment myself.

     (https://i.imgur.com/ZJk2NNq.jpg)

     Custom made stuff

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 17, 2019, 08:17:28 AM
What's the difference between connecting a second pedalboard and having a bigger pedalboard?

Are you also planning an amp that goes to 11?

:)

I already have one pedalboard that is full, but I want more pedals... so it's a bit of a dilemma. Moving around a gigantic pedalboard would be impractical, so it seems that the only solution is to make a second one.

There is also a new pedal by Earthquaker Devices that will let you group pedals together so that you can instantly switch between groups of pedals being on/off, which might help. Also, I believe it is supposed to reduce tone loss which may result in having so many pedals hooked up.

Quote from: greg on April 17, 2019, 08:02:50 AM
Cool, will like to see the pics...

My pedalboard is currently in complete disarray, and I'm planning to make a second pedalboard as well and connect the two. Never seen it done before, though.  :-\

Interesting. There should be a way you can A/B both pedalboards, but, honestly, as Scarpia pointed out, I don't really see the need for two pedalboards as it sounds impractical. But, if this is what you're looking for, it can be done. The best thing you can do, IMHO, is get to the essence of your sound and figure out what pedals need to stay and which ones need to go. This is what could take some time. I'm kind of an effects junkie. Some guitarists like having a lot of guitars or amps, I like having a lot of effect pedals. The key is to find what pedals suit your style and build your sound through those pedals.

Hopefully, I can get some photos on here by tomorrow.

Quote from: drogulus on April 17, 2019, 09:05:36 AM
     I have 2 guitars, 2 basses, and a variety of amps and cabs. One of the basses was store bought, everything else was custom made. I tend to be techno-obsessive about my stuff, even though I'm not technical enough to build equipment myself.

     (https://i.imgur.com/ZJk2NNq.jpg)

     Custom made stuff

Looks quite nice, drogulus. What is that pedal connected to your Vox pre-amp and speaker cabinet?

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 17, 2019, 08:34:33 AM
I have three guitars, two of which are in a state of poor repair.

Gibson ES-335 (black)
Gibson Dove (Red sunburst)
Gibson L-5 Super 400 (traditional sunburst).

The one that is in great shape is the oldest, dating to the early 70's. The ES-335.

On the Super-400 all of the gold electroplate on the metal hardware corroded and pealed off, leaving it very ugly. The wood is splintering on the Dove. They were both made during one of Gibson's many low points (early and late 80's). In all fairness they all suffered multiple relocations across the North American continent, and at one point to Calgary, Alberta. Being transported in a moving van through January weather in Alberta can't be good for them.

The bottom line, Gibson was a leading edge manufacturer that made great instruments in its heyday, but later mostly made overpriced crap.

At this point I do not have a guitar amplifier, or even a patch cord. Probably what I need is a gadget to plug the guitar into which would create an appropriately distorted sound for listening on headphones or playing through a stereo system.

I should post photos, if I can find time to get them out of their cases.

I had no idea you played the guitar, Scarpia. Very cool. 8) When you used to play a lot, did you use any effects?

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 17, 2019, 08:10:17 PM
Looks quite nice, drogulus. What is that pedal connected to your Vox pre-amp and speaker cabinet?

     It's a Strymon Flint reverb trem. The amp is only pretending to be a Vox, it's a clone of an amp used by an obscure British band in 1963. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)}

Quote from: drogulus on April 18, 2019, 04:37:47 AM
     It's a Strymon Flint reverb trem. The amp is only pretending to be a Vox, it's a clone of an amp used by an obscure British band in 1963. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)}

Strymon effect pedals are first-rate. I absolutely love my BigSky and Timeline. They've become two of the main ingredients of my sound. I'm thinking of buying the Mobius at some point, but, honestly, I don't really need it as I don't use modulation effects. I bet that amp sounds great.

Some photos of my setup:

I have a G&L F-100 electric from 1981, an Ovation acoustic from the 1970s, an old Fender Super Reverb amp, and a couple of small practice amps.

Quote from: BasilValentine on April 18, 2019, 07:37:14 AM
I have a G&L F-100 electric from the first year of production, an Ovation acoustic from the 1970s, a very old Fender Super Reverb amp and a couple of small practice amps.

     By very old do you mean a blackface SR?

     (https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--3fWb30iI--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1444926503/koqbjrjphqgdnori9jqv.jpg)

     

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 17, 2019, 08:13:01 PM
I had no idea you played the guitar, Scarpia. Very cool. 8) When you used to play a lot, did you use any effects?

I recall having an Ibanez Tube Screamer, an Ibanez Chorus an and Ibanez Analog delay pedal. I coveted a Wah pedal, but never had one.

     I had a Rat pedal back in the '90s. It sounded pretty good.

Quote from: drogulus on April 18, 2019, 07:45:23 AM
     By very old do you mean a blackface SR?

     (https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--3fWb30iI--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1444926503/koqbjrjphqgdnori9jqv.jpg)

No, silver. Guess I should have said old, not very old. ;) I was never much of a gear head.

I used to wish I had a Fender Amp...

I think I threw those Ibanez pedals in the trash just a few months ago after I found them in a box. I hope they are not valuable relics I could have sold on ebay....

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 18, 2019, 10:14:05 AM
I used to wish I had a Fender Amp...

I think I threw those Ibanez pedals in the trash just a few months ago after I found them in a box. I hope they are not valuable relics I could have sold on ebay....

     Do you worship Satan? _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)}

     

Received this guitar the other day:

[Click to enlarge]
(https://img.audiofanzine.com/images/u/product/normal/squier-vintage-modified-jaguar-158014.jpg)

The guitar played horribly right out of the box (nothing new there), but my dad (a luthier of sorts) set it up and now it plays like a dream. I'm definitely going to be giving this guitar a proper test run over the weekend.

Very nice. What are those switches on the side for?

I don't remember if I showed you the guitar I got recently...
(https://www.schecterguitars.com/images/store/product/HELLRAISER%20C-8%20FR%20BCH%20TILT.png)
https://www.schecterguitars.com/guitars/hellraiser-c-8-fr-detail


I still need to take it to a guitar tech since it came with some problems right out of the box and is unplayable.  ::)

But... despite that I can still tell that this is going to be my new favorite guitar. Very few guitars come with 8 strings and a floyd rose pre-installed. And the scale length doesn't feel too long, so it's fairly comfortable to play. Unlike my 9 string... thinking of trading it in eventually because the scale length makes it uncomfortable to play and the 9th string itself sounds really dull for some reason.

     Long ago I had a guitar that was a merciless Les Paul killer. It was Japanese, it had "flying finger" pickups, it was double cutaway, it was an Ibanez Artist 2617, like this one:

     (https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--SqWdICdM--/f_auto,t_supersize/v1545501029/uqjmmyflmfnw2tfeoyyf.jpg)

     I bought it new in 1979, I think. I didn't know then that this was better than what Gibson was making because I never had a Les Paul to compare it to.

Quote from: greg on April 19, 2019, 07:58:50 AM
Very nice. What are those switches on the side for?

I don't remember if I showed you the guitar I got recently...
(https://www.schecterguitars.com/images/store/product/HELLRAISER%20C-8%20FR%20BCH%20TILT.png)
https://www.schecterguitars.com/guitars/hellraiser-c-8-fr-detail


I still need to take it to a guitar tech since it came with some problems right out of the box and is unplayable.  ::)

But... despite that I can still tell that this is going to be my new favorite guitar. Very few guitars come with 8 strings and a floyd rose pre-installed. And the scale length doesn't feel too long, so it's fairly comfortable to play. Unlike my 9 string... thinking of trading it in eventually because the scale length makes it uncomfortable to play and the 9th string itself sounds really dull for some reason.

On this Fender Squier Jaguar, the switches on the side allow you to have a different tone depending on the position you put them in. Very nice Schecter guitar, btw. I don't think I've ever actually played on one of their guitars before, but, then again, I don't like going to guitar stores very much because of the loudness factor. I can't even hear myself think in one! :) Once you get it properly setup, you'll have to post yourself playing it.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 19, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
On this Fender Squier Jaguar, the switches on the side allow you to have a different tone depending on the position you put them in. Very nice Schecter guitar, btw. I don't think I've ever actually played on one of their guitars before, but, then again, I don't like going to guitar stores very much because of the loudness factor. I can't even hear myself think in one! :) Once you get it properly setup, you'll have to post yourself playing it.

That's a lot of options then! That's like six extra switches compared to the average guitar.

I sure will post videos and such, eventually...
(now I'm vaguely remember i think i posted about this guitar already a month or two ago on another thread, oh well lol)

Speaking of guitar shop, there's a youtube channel called Said Too Much Productions where he does some really interesting experiments with guitar construction, such as making a soprano guitar that can actually hit the highest C note on a piano. It involved making a shorter scale length, insanely low gauge strings ordered from some special online shop, and 3d printing a fretboard extension that went up over 30 frets (meaning that he couldn't include a neck pickup, only a bridge pickup).

Quote from: greg on April 19, 2019, 10:39:37 PM
That's a lot of options then! That's like six extra switches compared to the average guitar.

I sure will post videos and such, eventually...
(now I'm vaguely remember i think i posted about this guitar already a month or two ago on another thread, oh well lol)

Speaking of guitar shop, there's a youtube channel called Said Too Much Productions where he does some really interesting experiments with guitar construction, such as making a soprano guitar that can actually hit the highest C note on a piano. It involved making a shorter scale length, insanely low gauge strings ordered from some special online shop, and 3d printing a fretboard extension that went up over 30 frets (meaning that he couldn't include a neck pickup, only a bridge pickup).

That's pretty cool about the soprano guitar. I'd love to get a baritone guitar at some point or a guitar with 7-strings (just for the added option of more tonal colors). I'm not a metal guitarist, so the appeal of a 7-string guitar may be strange (or not?), but I do think it could add a new dimension to one's own sound.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 20, 2019, 06:47:12 AM
That's pretty cool about the soprano guitar. I'd love to get a baritone guitar at some point or a guitar with 7-strings (just for the added option of more tonal colors). I'm not a metal guitarist, so the appeal of a 7-string guitar may be strange (or not?), but I do think it could add a new dimension to one's own sound.

Not strange at all. Whenever I've talked about extended range guitars with someone else, either they or I have mentioned how it is also good for such things as playing more unusual chord shapes that might be found in jazz, for example. I've heard extended range guitars being used enough in clean context by now, even if originally they were created for distorted riffing.

Quote from: greg on April 20, 2019, 07:43:58 AM
Not strange at all. Whenever I've talked about extended range guitars with someone else, either they or I have mentioned how it is also good for such things as playing more unusual chord shapes that might be found in jazz, for example. I've heard extended range guitars being used enough in clean context by now, even if originally they were created for distorted riffing.

Finding unique chord voicings seems to be something I'm constantly interested in and, yeah, the 7-string guitar would be a great way to extent the possibilities of finding these voicings. I used to think I was a rock guitarist, then I thought I was a jazz guitarist, but now I'm just a guitarist. I really prefer to think of myself, if I may be so obliged to do so, as a sculptor of sound. I feel affiliated with no certain genre and with this kind of mindset I'm free to think more creatively about the guitar and music in general.

I was drawn in by the title of the thread, but so far this all looks fearsomely electric, so I'm not sure if I'm a fit contributor. All my guitars are acoustic. All of them are hugely better at being guitars than I am at playing them. Here's the list:

Martin HD28V
Taylor 914ce
Taylor 810e
Taylor 210e DLX
Taylor 214ce QM DLX (gives the definitive disproof of the idea that laminated woods all sound alike)
Sigma SG200 (I wanted a Gibson SJ200, but not to the tune of £3000, and with this remarkably fine Sigma copy, I can pretend.)

I have a little acoustic amplifier but I hardly ever use it.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 20, 2019, 04:44:40 PM
I was drawn in by the title of the thread, but so far this all looks fearsomely electric, so I'm not sure if I'm a fit contributor. All my guitars are acoustic. All of them are hugely better at being guitars than I am at playing them. Here's the list:

Martin HD28V
Taylor 914ce
Taylor 810e
Taylor 210e DLX
Taylor 214ce QM DLX (gives the definitive disproof of the idea that laminated woods all sound alike)
Sigma SG200 (I wanted a Gibson SJ200, but not to the tune of £3000, and with this remarkably fine Sigma copy, I can pretend.)

I have a little acoustic amplifier but I hardly ever use it.

Nonsense. You are welcomed here with open arms, Elgarian. You own some fine acoustic guitars. The Taylors that I've played on have been exquisite. I came very close to buying one of their 12-string models many years ago. Do any of the acoustic guitars you own have an electric pickup in them or are they are all purely acoustic?

Well, I caved, I ended up buying a Strymon Mobius effects box. Hopefully, it'll be here later on in the week.

The choruses and flangers are why I bought this unit:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jvH4ovLIUk0

https://www.youtube.com/v/78QcxnXGJGA

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 20, 2019, 07:19:00 PM
Nonsense. You are welcomed here with open arms, Elgarian. You own some fine acoustic guitars. The Taylors that I've played on have been exquisite. I came very close to buying one of their 12-string models many years ago. Do any of the acoustic guitars you own have an electric pickup in them or are they are all purely acoustic?

They all have a pickup except the Martin.  I once bought a cheap Fender Mustang amp so I could play with the effects, but it never caught on. More recently I bought a little Roland AC 33 acoustic amp which has had a bit more use. But after 50 years of playing purely acoustically, I'm not likely to change now!

I've tinkered with recording, using a little 8 track Tascam 'portable studio', which is easy to use, even for me; but mostly I just pick up a guitar and play, without bothering with anything electronic.

I've owned a couple of 12-string guitars, and much as I love the sound of them, I find they are a pain to live with. I still have a Taylor 150e, but though I have tried and tried, it just isn't for me, and it sits in its case, silently whispering 'Mistake! Mistake!'

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 21, 2019, 12:54:33 AM
They all have a pickup except the Martin.  I once bought a cheap Fender Mustang amp so I could play with the effects, but it never caught on. More recently I bought a little Roland AC 33 acoustic amp which has had a bit more use. But after 50 years of playing purely acoustically, I'm not likely to change now!

I've tinkered with recording, using a little 8 track Tascam 'portable studio', which is easy to use, even for me; but mostly I just pick up a guitar and play, without bothering with anything electronic.

I've owned a couple of 12-string guitars, and much as I love the sound of them, I find they are a pain to live with. I still have a Taylor 150e, but though I have tried and tried, it just isn't for me, and it sits in its case, silently whispering 'Mistake! Mistake!'

That's great. Yeah, the important thing to remember about effects is they should never control you. I only use them because they enhance my playing, but also because I just like them and always have. Interestingly enough, I learned to play on an acoustic guitar (an old Gibson or Washburn acoustic model which slips my mind at the moment), but I have always been attracted to the electric guitar for it's potential for building sonic masses of sound. I love the acoustic guitar (esp. nylon string classical guitar) as they provide a great rhythmic backdrop to a piece of music, but they've never been a part of the sound I hear in my mind that I've been trying for 22 years to get out. All the more power to you for sticking to your guns and playing nothing but acoustics.

Like you, I've fooled around with recording, but I don't have a keen interest in recording that much as a lot of what I play is based on pure improvisation and not on some kind of structure. I might think about getting something in the future as there have been several occasions where I wished I had recorded myself and another musician or musicians. I remember playing with a cellist and thinking "Boy, if only I had recorded this!" I forget how I met this cellist, but we did a church gig together if I'm not mistaken, but I do remember what we played at the time was loosely structured and had a lot of improvisation. After the church service was over, some guy walked up to me and the cellist and said what we played was 'extremely beautiful'. That kind of compliment has stayed with me to this day and I've been pursuing beauty in music ever since.

Quote from: San Antone on April 21, 2019, 04:21:19 AM

A George Lowden guitar has been my main instrument since 1986 and I love it, it has done nothing but gotten better sounding through the years.

I've played some Lowdens and they all sounded absolutely wonderful - rich harmonics, and apparently infinite sustain. The only thing that stopped me from trying to get one myself was - apart from the price - they just didn't feel quite right for me. Truth is, I'm just a wannabee pop singer, and the Lowdons weren't a good personal fit to that.

QuoteI don't like acoustic guitar pickups, since they distort the sound so much

Oh yes, I quite agree. It's not that I'm a purist; it's just that having striven to get the finest-sounding acoustic guitars I could find and afford, it seems bonkers to electronically make them sound worse. My Taylors have all been carefully chosen for their specific acoustic qualities - but they all pretty much sound the same through an amp.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 21, 2019, 06:42:13 AMAll the more power to you for sticking to your guns and playing nothing but acoustics.

As I said above, it's not a purist thing for me. I do have a cheap electric guitar in fact, but neither it, nor any other electric I've tried, has ever come alive in my hands. I don't feel any kind of relationship with them. I'd love to be able to, but it doesn't happen.

QuoteLike you, I've fooled around with recording, but I don't have a keen interest in recording that much

My interest in the recording process itself is virtually zero. I never yet managed to make a recording that didn't make me wince to some degree. But I like to be able to make some sort of record of the songs I write, or to be able to compare different arrangements of them. I do the recordings in the kitchen, and they sound like it.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 20, 2019, 07:54:31 AM
Finding unique chord voicings seems to be something I'm constantly interested in and, yeah, the 7-string guitar would be a great way to extent the possibilities of finding these voicings. I used to think I was a rock guitarist, then I thought I was a jazz guitarist, but now I'm just a guitarist. I really prefer to think of myself, if I may be so obliged to do so, as a sculptor of sound. I feel affiliated with no certain genre and with this kind of mindset I'm free to think more creatively about the guitar and music in general.

Basically same here.
Also, the reason for the amount of pedals for me is that I don't just want one or two go-to sounds, but at least 10-20.
I think the goal of second guitar-based album will be that people listen to it and feel so utterly disturbed that they start hallucinating and eventually go crazy and kill themselves. Music like that generally requires many different effects.

(or not, you could just turn on some pop music for the same effect  >:D :P )

Quote from: greg on April 21, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
Basically same here.
Also, the reason for the amount of pedals for me is that I don't just want one or two go-to sounds, but at least 10-20.
I think the goal of second guitar-based album will be that people listen to it and feel so utterly disturbed that they start hallucinating and eventually go crazy and kill themselves. Music like that generally requires many different effects.

(or not, you could just turn on some pop music for the same effect  >:D :P )

Well, there is good pop music you know. :) I'm thinking here of Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, and Björk. These artists push the musical envelope and create worlds of sound that are unique and individualistic. Getting back to the tones and sounds we get from pedals (or rack mount units), I think if a musician isn't allured by their own sound, then they're not going to feel inspired to continue to play. I think once I receive this Strymon Mobius effects unit, I will have the last ingredient to my sound and this is something that I can add in or subtract, because, as you mentioned, it's nice having those options there in the event that you would like to add a different element to your sound or the music you're playing.

Quote from: greg on April 21, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
you could just turn on some pop music for the same effect  >:D :P )

and Mirror Image:

QuoteWell, there is good pop music you know.

I'd like to speak up in defence of pop music. When I was a young lad, I could not decide whether I wanted to be a physicist or a pop singer. I earnestly desired to be both, but they seemed to be in two compartments. One was trivial; the other serious. (And there was also the problem that although I was good at science, I couldn't sing, but let's set that aside for now.)

What nonsense it all was, to suppose that pop music was not really worthy of attention.
It took me a long time to realise it, as a conscious thought, but thank goodness I did eventually. All my adult life, running alongside everything else I've done, there has been an acoustic guitar, and I have used it to play pop music. It's been a source of joy, and sometimes a lifeline. I owe Bobby Vee and Elvis Presley just as much of a debt as I do Elgar or Sibelius. Just not the same sort of debt.

The songs I write myself are pop songs. They usually have some sort of serious intent - because I want to mean what I sing, when I sing - but still, they are pop songs. Pop music isn't by definition bad music. It does its own thing. Take it away from me, and I lose half my lifeblood.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 22, 2019, 12:21:22 AM
I'd like to speak up in defence of pop music. When I was a young lad, I could not decide whether I wanted to be a physicist or a pop singer. I earnestly desired to be both, but they seemed to be in two compartments. One was trivial; the other serious. (And there was also the problem that although I was good at science, I couldn't sing, but let's set that aside for now.)

What nonsense it all was, to suppose that pop music was not really worthy of attention.
It took me a long time to realise it, as a conscious thought, but thank goodness I did eventually. All my adult life, running alongside everything else I've done, there has been an acoustic guitar, and I have used it to play pop music. It's been a source of joy, and sometimes a lifeline. I owe Bobby Vee and Elvis Presley just as much of a debt as I do Elgar or Sibelius. Just not the same sort of debt.

The songs I write myself are pop songs. They usually have some sort of serious intent - because I want to mean what I sing, when I sing - but still, they are pop songs. Pop music isn't by definition bad music. It does its own thing. Take it away from me, and I lose half my lifeblood.

No argument from me. I love pop music as there are so many great musicians that have given their all to producing some remarkable music. Like San Antone, I'm beginning to be able to drop the whole attitude of this genre is better than this genre, etc. and just listen. Music is a language of its' own and there's so many different vernaculars, but the end result is it's all music, but as to whether you like it or not is, of course, boils down to personal preference.

Quote from: San Antone on April 22, 2019, 03:29:18 AM
I hope this thread does not digress into that debate over genres.

You're right, and that wasn't my intention. I suppose I was explaining that my love of my guitars is intimately connected with my love of pop music. I wouldn't know how to separate them. And what I decide to play at any one moment is pretty unpredictable, although - to some extent it's determined by which guitar I happen to pick up. The Taylor 210 DLX is the most amazing rock and roll machine, and so sooner or later I give in to what it really wants, and let it rip.

I wonder which comes first? Do I pick up the guitar that suits my mood of the moment? Or Does the guitar I pick up dictate the mood of the moment? I don't know which. It's something of a recent luxury. Most of my life I've owned only one guitar at a time. For years it was an Eko Ranger 6, built like a tank and sounding much like one. Then it was a Martin DM, for about 15 years (oh my, that was a great guitar. I thought I would never need another.)

The idea of having more than one guitar is relatively recent, starting from about 5 years ago. There was an easing of finances with fewer responsibilities; and also a realisation that if I was ever going to experience the possession of really fine instruments, I ought to do it now before my fingers succumb to arthritis or whatever. It is, I must admit, a glorious luxury to have them.

     I was just playing my Green Thing guitar with my newest amp. They sound beautiful together.

     (http://crestonguitars.com/media/gallery/Creston_DarkBass_2.jpg)

     Green Thing

I bought a new toy:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91fdOLbbxHL._SL1500_.jpg)

Basically, the reason I bought is my Line 6 DL4 Delay Modeler which I used for loops has officially bit the dust. Unfortunately, I could only record I think 15-seconds of a loop with the Line 6, but it's sound quality was so impressive. This Digitech JamMan offers 24-bit sound quality (+ stereo outs like my Line 6) and 10 minutes of looping time, which is all I need. Looking forward to messing around with it.

Just bought a power supply, which was much needed as I'm starting to hook up many pedals and effect boxes:

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/zuma_front-1024x573.jpg)

Posted a new video:

https://www.youtube.com/v/65F1dnw7S54

And if you couldn't tell by this video that I'm an incredibly gifted public speaker, then I really don't know what to tell you. ::) ;D

     The Strymon Flint pedal is very old school with '60s/'70s/'80s mini-switches for both the reverb and the trem. Today I played my 5 string bass through it.

So, uh, hope your "tour" includes my city.  ;D

That sound is a lot of shimmer. Seems like it would be great if playing chords or playing slowly, but can't imagine it working if playing leads. Which I'd imagine is the goal?

Quote from: greg on April 26, 2019, 05:05:37 PM
So, uh, hope your "tour" includes my city.  ;D

That sound is a lot of shimmer. Seems like it would be great if playing chords or playing slowly, but can't imagine it working if playing leads. Which I'd imagine is the goal?

Haha! :D Actually, playing melodies and leads, it sounds very good, but I don't play a lot of 'hot licks' nor do I have any interest in running scales up and down the fretboard. Essentially, my own personal playing style is slow-moving, dreamy, and ethereal. I couldn't imagine any other kind of sound than the one I currently have, but, of course, there's always room to tweak everything and refine it. That seems to be my main goal at the moment. When I play acoustic guitar, on the other hand, I don't focus so much on effects with the exception of some reverb (and perhaps some chorus) and try to get a good clean sound without any trailing effect. Right now, I'm working on a piece that kind of has a medieval atmosphere to it (or at least this is what the chord progression suggests to me). For this piece, I'm using an Alvarez Artist Pro acoustic guitar which will serve as the harmonic foundation of the piece while I overdub electric guitar parts on top. It'll probably be a 5 minute piece. When I get it up to performance, I'll have to record it or make some kind of video with it. I'm not really sure yet, but I'm pretty excited by this piece, which has actually been floating around in my head for 15 years or so, but I could never work up a proper idea for it until now.

Sounds neat, will look forward to listening.

In this past some of your clips included some cool lead licks, so figured you'd do more of that, but sometimes people take some time to get into their "sound" and then stick with that.

My goal is slightly different, as I want to create a new universe with each album, though there will be similarities, of course, due to my musical biases.

Quote from: greg on April 27, 2019, 08:03:55 AM
Sounds neat, will look forward to listening.

In this past some of your clips included some cool lead licks, so figured you'd do more of that, but sometimes people take some time to get into their "sound" and then stick with that.

My goal is slightly different, as I want to create a new universe with each album, though there will be similarities, of course, due to my musical biases.

Yeah, that's true. I have done some 'licks' before and I shouldn't have made it sound like I won't ever do any again as, depending on the music, one can't completely avoid them, especially in improvisation, but I would, at least, like to get away from them and think as differently as I can about the guitar and what it can do. I would really like to hear your music, Greg. You're someone who has a million times better technique than I do and can certainly play better than me, so it's always good to hear someone who can actually play their instrument, which I know you can incredibly well.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 27, 2019, 09:52:41 AM
Yeah, that's true. I have done some 'licks' before and I shouldn't have made it sound like I won't ever do any again as, depending on the music, one can't completely avoid them, especially in improvisation, but I would, at least, like to get away from them and think as differently as I can about the guitar and what it can do. I would really like to hear your music, Greg. You're someone who has a million times better technique than I do and can certainly play better than me, so it's always good to hear someone who can actually play their instrument, which I know you can incredibly well.

Thanks, man. After the move I will start getting stuff set up again and will be working on my new album. I'm aiming to finish by the end of the year, but we'll see. Probably will update on fb when progress is made, and maybe do a guitar playthrough video or something.

But man... should have released guitar music many years ago... oh well, now that I'm focused more on it (and also know how to avoid writer's block), that's all that matters.  8)

Quote from: greg on April 27, 2019, 04:48:36 PM
Thanks, man. After the move I will start getting stuff set up again and will be working on my new album. I'm aiming to finish by the end of the year, but we'll see. Probably will update on fb when progress is made, and maybe do a guitar playthrough video or something.

But man... should have released guitar music many years ago... oh well, now that I'm focused more on it (and also know how to avoid writer's block), that's all that matters.  8)

Well, you definitely should post more music. I'm all ears. 8)

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 26, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
Haha! :D Actually, playing melodies and leads, it sounds very good, but I don't play a lot of 'hot licks' nor do I have any interest in running scales up and down the fretboard. Essentially, my own personal playing style is slow-moving, dreamy, and ethereal. I couldn't imagine any other kind of sound than the one I currently have, but, of course, there's always room to tweak everything and refine it. That seems to be my main goal at the moment. When I play acoustic guitar, on the other hand, I don't focus so much on effects with the exception of some reverb (and perhaps some chorus) and try to get a good clean sound without any trailing effect. Right now, I'm working on a piece that kind of has a medieval atmosphere to it (or at least this is what the chord progression suggests to me). For this piece, I'm using an Alvarez Artist Pro acoustic guitar which will serve as the harmonic foundation of the piece while I overdub electric guitar parts on top. It'll probably be a 5 minute piece. When I get it up to performance, I'll have to record it or make some kind of video with it. I'm not really sure yet, but I'm pretty excited by this piece, which has actually been floating around in my head for 15 years or so, but I could never work up a proper idea for it until now.

Interesting. What hardware/software do you use for doing overdubs? I haven't done any of that sort of stuff since my old Tascam 4-track died.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 27, 2019, 08:19:50 PM
Interesting. What hardware/software do you use for doing overdubs? I haven't done any of that sort of stuff since my old Tascam 4-track died.

I record the piece into the Boss Loopstation and from there I can layer different parts on top of the rhythm, but this kind of thing is usually live and on the spot. In terms of actual recording, I have a Tascam 8-Track Portastudio, which I haven't used and is put up right now.

It all sounds extremely impressive and ambitious - far beyond anything I aim at, either musically or technically. If I can bash out a decent pop song or two, that's pretty much all I can hope for.

I did once try something more complicated. Many years ago I used to run to the top of a local "mountain" (ok, a hill). It took about an hour from bottom to top, and was at the limit of what I could physically do. The spectacular view from the top was hidden until I actually reached the top - in a state of utter exhaustion, barely capable of appreciating it. So I wanted to try to express this musically - the hesitant, tentative first few steps, the growing confidence as I warmed up, the steadily increasing determination, the OMG why am I doing this? feeling, the sheer will power keeping me going feeling, and so on, to the top. This was the result, played and recorded in the kitchen, like all my stuff. If you think it sounds like pots and pans, that's partly because of their sympathetic resonance, and partly sheer incompetence on my part.

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha)

But it's not typical of what I do. This is more my usual sort of thing, a sort of updating of the old Thomas the Rhymer story (fade-in start - do not adjust your volume):

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west)

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 29, 2019, 01:38:34 AM
It all sounds extremely impressive and ambitious - far beyond anything I aim at, either musically or technically. If I can bash out a decent pop song or two, that's pretty much all I can hope for.

I did once try something more complicated. Many years ago I used to run to the top of a local "mountain" (ok, a hill). It took about an hour from bottom to top, and was at the limit of what I could physically do. The spectacular view from the top was hidden until I actually reached the top - in a state of utter exhaustion, barely capable of appreciating it. So I wanted to try to express this musically - the hesitant, tentative first few steps, the growing confidence as I warmed up, the steadily increasing determination, the OMG why am I doing this? feeling, the sheer will power keeping me going feeling, and so on, to the top. This was the result, played and recorded in the kitchen, like all my stuff. If you think it sounds like pots and pans, that's partly because of their sympathetic resonance, and partly sheer incompetence on my part.

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha)

But it's not typical of what I do. This is more my usual sort of thing, a sort of updating of the old Thomas the Rhymer story (fade-in start - do not adjust your volume):

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west)

Very cool, Elgarian. I've listened to a few of your recordings and I don't know, but I'm getting a strong Ian Anderson/Jethro Tull vibe from the pieces I heard you play. Your voice has a certain Anderson-like timbre to it. As for the instrumental, if recorded in a proper studio, it could very well be something on a Jethro Tull album like Songs from the Wood or Minstrel in the Gallery.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 29, 2019, 01:38:34 AM
It all sounds extremely impressive and ambitious - far beyond anything I aim at, either musically or technically. If I can bash out a decent pop song or two, that's pretty much all I can hope for.

I did once try something more complicated. Many years ago I used to run to the top of a local "mountain" (ok, a hill). It took about an hour from bottom to top, and was at the limit of what I could physically do. The spectacular view from the top was hidden until I actually reached the top - in a state of utter exhaustion, barely capable of appreciating it. So I wanted to try to express this musically - the hesitant, tentative first few steps, the growing confidence as I warmed up, the steadily increasing determination, the OMG why am I doing this? feeling, the sheer will power keeping me going feeling, and so on, to the top. This was the result, played and recorded in the kitchen, like all my stuff. If you think it sounds like pots and pans, that's partly because of their sympathetic resonance, and partly sheer incompetence on my part.

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/running-up-clougha)

But it's not typical of what I do. This is more my usual sort of thing, a sort of updating of the old Thomas the Rhymer story (fade-in start - do not adjust your volume):

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/travelling-west)

Good stuff. But now that I've listed to it I will hear all of your posts in my head in that reedy Neil Young-ish voice of yours. Previously you sounded like John Gielgud to my minds ear. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 29, 2019, 06:18:05 AM
Very cool, Elgarian. I've listened to a few of your recordings and I don't know, but I'm getting a strong Ian Anderson/Jethro Tull vibe from the pieces I heard you play. Your voice has a certain Anderson-like timbre to it. As for the instrumental, if recorded in a proper studio, it could very well be something on a Jethro Tull album like Songs from the Wood or Minstrel in the Gallery.

That sounds really flattering, and yet ... I'm sorry to say that I have never knowingly heard anything by Jethro Tull in my whole life, and the name Ian Anderson is wholly new to me!

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 29, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
Previously you sounded like John Gielgud to my minds ear. :)

You can now imagine me laughing out loud. Just as John Gielgud might have done.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 29, 2019, 11:20:53 AM
That sounds really flattering, and yet ... I'm sorry to say that I have never knowingly heard anything by Jethro Tull in my whole life, and the name Ian Anderson is wholly new to me!

:o

Check this out when you have time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZaDdPfiu04

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 29, 2019, 01:29:16 PM
Check this out when you have time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZaDdPfiu04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZaDdPfiu04)

Hmm. I don't know. Does that sound like my stuff?
If there were influences on what I do, I'd think of Mike Oldfield, Steeleye Span, Bob Dylan, Elvis ... (the first two having a prog-folk-rock link). But I'm laughing now because
(a) the list is absurd; and
(b) in talking of 'influence', I'm taking my stuff way too seriously.

I was thinking about the things that kick off the impulse to play. Quite often, it's just for the pleasure of holding the instrument, stroking the strings, and hearing the sounds. (I think that's a pleasure that became more marked when I acquired a few guitars, rather than just one.) Quite often I find myself just playing simple chords and twiddling around - sometimes it becomes a tune; sometimes it doesn't.

A real stimulus is weather. If it's sunny, there's no better place to be than outdoors, playing a guitar. There's an element of nostalgia in this: a memory of sunny summers in the sixties, with a group of friends sitting on the grass outside a pub, passing a guitar from one to another. But nostalgia aside, playing outdoors does have something special about it. There's no reverb, so you hear just the guitar - not 'guitar-plus-room'.

Playing to the sea is good too. We've often stayed at a remote cottage in Scotland, right on the sea shore, so there's a lot of gentle natural background sound: the shushing of a quiet sea, the spooky elemental noise of stags rutting on the hills. To bring the sound of a guitar into that environment is really strange, and I have haunting memories of such occasions:

https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/footprints (https://soundcloud.com/user-251833972/footprints)

What is it about a wooden box with wire stretched across it, I wonder? Taylor Guitars produce a magazine called 'Wood and Steel', and there's something in that juxtaposition: the metallic and the organic coming together. It feels unlikely, and yet it produces such music. Maybe that's linked to the Scottish experience - like the contrast between the unyielding granite of the mountains and the ever-changing sea and heather.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 29, 2019, 11:33:43 PM
Hmm. I don't know. Does that sound like my stuff?
If there were influences on what I do, I'd think of Mike Oldfield, Steeleye Span, Bob Dylan, Elvis ... (the first two having a prog-folk-rock link). But I'm laughing now because
(a) the list is absurd; and
(b) in talking of 'influence', I'm taking my stuff way too seriously.

It doesn't sound exactly like your music, no, but I was more or less referring to the timbre of Ian Anderson's voice and how your own sounds similar.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
It doesn't sound exactly like your music, no, but I was more or less referring to the timbre of Ian Anderson's voice and how your own sounds similar.

All weird, from my perspective. I very much dislike the sound of my own singing voice, and I've never made a single recording where my vocal efforts don't make me wince. Whereas Ian Anderson sounds quite nice, doesn't he? So I don't quite know how to respond! I think probably that no one hears his own voice in the way that others do.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 30, 2019, 01:14:58 PM
All weird, from my perspective. I very much dislike the sound of my own singing voice, and I've never made a single recording where my vocal efforts don't make me wince. Whereas Ian Anderson sounds quite nice, doesn't he? So I don't quite know how to respond! I think probably that no one hears his own voice in the way that others do.

Be that as it may, I like your voice and could imagine you doing some professional recordings. I can imagine a subtle string accompaniment behind your guitar in some of the pieces you have performed and written. You're a folk star and don't even know it! ;)

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
Be that as it may, I like your voice and could imagine you doing some professional recordings. I can imagine a subtle string accompaniment behind your guitar in some of the pieces you have performed and written. You're a folk star and don't even know it! ;)

What a nice thing to say! Thank you!

(The cheque is in the post.)

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 01, 2019, 12:39:53 AM
What a nice thing to say! Thank you!

(The cheque is in the post.)

You're welcome. :) I wish you lived near me, because I'd love to collaborate with you. If I can make any sort of claim about my own skills as a guitarist, I believe I'm at my best when I'm accompanying another musician. In particular, a sing-songwriter type of musician where there's a chance to add atmosphere and texture to a piece that's already written.

     I have a question for everyone who knows about this stuff. What overdrive pedal would be best for natural amp-like overdrive, that is not super high gain but like an overdriven vintage tube amp?

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on April 30, 2019, 01:14:58 PM
All weird, from my perspective. I very much dislike the sound of my own singing voice, and I've never made a single recording where my vocal efforts don't make me wince. Whereas Ian Anderson sounds quite nice, doesn't he? So I don't quite know how to respond! I think probably that no one hears his own voice in the way that others do.

I find the sound of your singing voice attractive. Someone who was the closest I ever knew to a successful musician told me that the important thing is not to have a pretty voice but to have a memorable, recognizable voice. Makes sense. Did you ever mistake another singer for Bob Dylan, and did you ever think his voice was 'pretty?'

Quote from: drogulus on May 01, 2019, 09:47:47 AM
     I have a question for everyone who knows about this stuff. What overdrive pedal would be best for natural amp-like overdrive, that is not super high gain but like an overdriven vintage tube amp?

This one from Strymon ought to do the trick:

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/sunset_detailslabels-927x1024.jpg)

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 01, 2019, 10:15:38 AM
I find the sound of your singing voice attractive. Someone who was the closest I ever knew to a successful musician told me that the important thing is not to have a pretty voice but to have a memorable, recognizable voice. Makes sense. Did you ever mistake another singer for Bob Dylan, and did you ever think his voice was 'pretty?'

Thanks for the reassurance. I certainly wouldn't want a 'pretty' voice. I read a good quote from Sam Cooke recently. Someone had complimented him on his 'beautiful' voice, and he thanked them and said, 'I'm glad you like it. But my concern is: does it make you think that what I'm singing is true?'

I guess what I would like to achieve is to sing in a way that draws attention to what's being sung, rather than to the voice itself. But really I have no pretensions about any of this. I sing and play primarily for myself (because it would be very hard and pointless to stop) and (sometimes) a few friends, and so none of this matters much. Most of the songs are miniature diary entries: either fragments of remembered life, or little tales I've woven in idle moments.

Ok, yeah, dude that is a really great, professional level sounding voice.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2019, 08:09:29 PM
This one from Strymon ought to do the trick:

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/sunset_detailslabels-927x1024.jpg)

     I think I want one half of that, a basic drive/level/tone pedal.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 02, 2019, 01:21:05 AM
Thanks for the reassurance. I certainly wouldn't want a 'pretty' voice. I read a good quote from Sam Cooke recently. Someone had complimented him on his 'beautiful' voice, and he thanked them and said, 'I'm glad you like it. But my concern is: does it make you think that what I'm singing is true?'

I guess what I would like to achieve is to sing in a way that draws attention to what's being sung, rather than to the voice itself. But really I have no pretensions about any of this. I sing and play primarily for myself (because it would be very hard and pointless to stop) and (sometimes) a few friends, and so none of this matters much. Most of the songs are miniature diary entries: either fragments of remembered life, or little tales I've woven in idle moments.

Yes, an honest voice, more pretty than Dylan, not too pretty. :)

I think the pop/folk singer with the most 'pretty' timbre was James Taylor. He did a few great things in the early days, and degenerated into elevator music, I'd say. Maybe that phrase doesn't work in the UK, music you'd hear playing in the background in the lift. Fire and rain, You've got a friend, Machine Gun Kelly. And there was some sophistication in the ensemble. You could listen to an entire album and not hear a guitar strum a simple chord.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2019, 06:10:49 AM
You're welcome. :) I wish you lived near me, because I'd love to collaborate with you. If I can make any sort of claim about my own skills as a guitarist, I believe I'm at my best when I'm accompanying another musician. In particular, a sing-songwriter type of musician where there's a chance to add atmosphere and texture to a piece that's already written.

I am sure you would be disappointed by my part in such a venture, John! I have at various times played with others - and sometimes it's been fun - but at heart I remain just a chap with a guitar doing his own thing, largely devoid of any ambition beyond that.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 02, 2019, 08:08:09 AM
I think the pop/folk singer with the most 'pretty' timbre was James Taylor. He did a few great things in the early days, and degenerated into elevator music, I'd say. Maybe that phrase doesn't work in the UK, music you'd hear playing in the background in the lift. Fire and rain, You've got a friend, Machine Gun Kelly. And there was some sophistication in the ensemble. You could listen to an entire album and not hear a guitar strum a simple chord.

Spot on. I respond to James Taylor in much the same way. Of course there's nothing wrong with a voice that is as smooth as silk, but if its importance is elevated too far, it  implies a different definition of 'good singing' to the one I rely on. Even if the song is the most lamentable song imaginable, it has to be sung as if the singer means it. Elvis was good at this. Even when his material had sunk to the lowest level, in the mid-sixties movie soundtracks, he still did everything he could to sing them as if they meant something. At least, I think I hear that. Don't ask me to prove the assertion!

Incidentally, the immense capabilities of Dylan's singing become immediately apparent the moment you seriously try to sing one of his songs yourself. Every attempt has failure written all over it.

Has anyone tried the harmonica/acoustic guitar combination that Dylan used to use so distinctively?

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 02, 2019, 10:46:21 AM
Has anyone tried the harmonica/acoustic guitar combination that Dylan used to use so distinctively?

I have the same reaction as I have to Koechlin and his ondes Martenot.  :'(

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 02, 2019, 10:50:49 AM
I have the same reaction as I have to Koechlin and his ondes Martenot.  :'(

Well, that is an especially gruesome form of torture to compare it with.

Is it the sound of the harmonica itself that troubles you? Or the use Dylan makes of it? I'm not a frequent user of the instrument myself, but I do have a harmonica collection and one of those harnesses, which occasionally I dredge out from their box.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 02, 2019, 10:59:31 AM
Well, that is an especially gruesome form of torture to compare it with.

Is it the sound of the harmonica itself that troubles you? Or the use Dylan makes of it? I'm not a frequent user of the instrument myself, but I do have a harmonica collection and one of those harnesses, which occasionally I dredge out from their box.

Yes, I think it is the recorded sound of the instrument particularly in the early recordings. Too harsh and grating. I am conflicted because I would not dare suggest those early recordings, the old testament of the singer/songwriter genre, should be changed in any way. By the time you get to songs like Tambourine Man the sound is more agreeable to me.

Somewhat off-the-wall question:

I am teaching botany (among other things) this semester and, in covering conifers, I mentioned that spruce is used in making musical instruments including violins (violin family), piano soundboards, and guitars.

However, is this true for guitars?? Is spruce always used for a guitar body? If so, what would be a substitute (Aside from really cheapo plastic guitars)? What about lutes, theorbos, etc?

What are electric guitars made of, and how does the wood affect the sound?

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 02, 2019, 01:06:43 PM
Somewhat off-the-wall question:

I am teaching botany (among other things) this semester and, in covering conifers, I mentioned that spruce is used in making musical instruments including violins (violin family), piano soundboards, and guitars.

However, is this true for guitars?? Is spruce always used for a guitar body? If so, what would be a substitute (Aside from really cheapo plastic guitars)? What about lutes, theorbos, etc?

What are electric guitars made of, and how does the wood affect the sound?

For a good guitar the top is made of spruce and the sides and back are of a hardwood, often mahogany or maple. Probably manufacturers at a lower price point are more creative in selecting wood varieties, but the basic idea is a soft wood for the top and a hard wood for the remainder, which forms a rigid resonator.

The main point of an electric guitar is long sustain - which is normally limited by the acoustic coupling from the strings to the top. So electric guitars are typically made of a solid block of hardwood. The Gibson SG and Fender Strat are mahogany and ash, respectively.

     One of my guitars is made of alder and the other one is pine.

Quote from: drogulus on May 02, 2019, 02:13:10 PM
     One of my guitars is made of alder and the other one is pine.

Are these electric or acoustic guitars?

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 02, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
Are these electric or acoustic guitars?

     They are solid body electrics.

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 02, 2019, 01:06:43 PM
Somewhat off-the-wall question:

I am teaching botany (among other things) this semester and, in covering conifers, I mentioned that spruce is used in making musical instruments including violins (violin family), piano soundboards, and guitars.

However, is this true for guitars?? Is spruce always used for a guitar body? If so, what would be a substitute (Aside from really cheapo plastic guitars)? What about lutes, theorbos, etc?

What are electric guitars made of, and how does the wood affect the sound?

For guitar tops, spruce and cedar are the most common ones, used because of their high stiffness-to-weight ratio. Spruce is denser and provides a louder and brighter sound. (generally, denser woods provide brighter and louder sound) Mahogany and maple are common materials for the back and sides, rosewood is a fancier option.

Ebony, rosewood and maple are used in the fingerboards, maple and mahogany in the necks. Some endangered species among the exotic hardwoods used for the fingerboards in particular, Gibson was in trouble with this earlier in the decade (https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/0807/Gibson-Guitar-Corporation-admits-to-importing-endangered-wood).

In electric guitar bodies, ash and alder are the classic material for Fender bodies, with a maple neck and a rosewood or maple fingerboard. Mahogany body and neck with rosewood fingerboard is the classic for Gibson, with the denser maple top added on the Les Paul. On the ES-335, the top, back and sides are made from maple/poplar/maple veneer.

But any number of woods can be used for each of these purposes as long as they have the desired properties (density, hardness, stiffness).

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 02, 2019, 08:46:55 AM
I am sure you would be disappointed by my part in such a venture, John! I have at various times played with others - and sometimes it's been fun - but at heart I remain just a chap with a guitar doing his own thing, largely devoid of any ambition beyond that.

Ah, well I'm kind of chameleon when it comes to playing with others. I'm sure we can come up with something! :)

Thanks for the information guys--very interesting. I also wonder about guitars used in Flamenco music, where slapping is involved--can spruce stand up to that long term?

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 02, 2019, 01:06:43 PM
Somewhat off-the-wall question:

I am teaching botany (among other things) this semester and, in covering conifers, I mentioned that spruce is used in making musical instruments including violins (violin family), piano soundboards, and guitars.

However, is this true for guitars?? Is spruce always used for a guitar body? If so, what would be a substitute (Aside from really cheapo plastic guitars)? What about lutes, theorbos, etc?

An experiment recently seemed to demonstrate that the wood used on the back and sides of an acoustic guitar made no consistently perceptible difference to the tone of the guitar:
http://www.psych.lancs.ac.uk/hearing/the-guitar-experiment/#conclusions (http://www.psych.lancs.ac.uk/hearing/the-guitar-experiment/#conclusions)

This is an extraordinary finding. It goes against the accepted wisdom and experience of guitar players down the years, and indeed against my own daily experience of regularly playing a variety of acoustic guitars. There must be something wrong with the methodology of the experiment - though I'm not interested enough to go through it in enough detail to find out where and why.

The differences produced by the use of different woods are not difficult to hear, but they're not consistent either, partly because no two pieces of wood are the same. My understanding is that the guitar top dominates the character of the sound, with additional characteristics provided by the back and sides. The fact that the back and sides are less critical means that some very fine guitars have been made with laminated woods for the back and sides.

A common combination has been spruce for the top and rosewood back and sides (like the classic Martin country guitars). Blues guitars are often made entirely of mahogany (including the top), and they stand out a mile, with a boxy, woody, raw sound. Guitars like the Gibson J200 have maple back and sides, which tends to give them a ringing clarity that's quite characteristic of that particular wood.

But these are just general trends. So many other factors affect the sound of an acoustic guitar (eg bracing) that one cannot be sure, in advance, how any one particular guitar will sound, purely based on a knowledge of its woods.

Quote from: Elgarian Redux on May 03, 2019, 12:55:17 AM
An experiment recently seemed to demonstrate that the wood used on the back and sides of an acoustic guitar made no consistently perceptible difference to the tone of the guitar:
http://www.psych.lancs.ac.uk/hearing/the-guitar-experiment/#conclusions (http://www.psych.lancs.ac.uk/hearing/the-guitar-experiment/#conclusions)

This is an extraordinary finding. It goes against the accepted wisdom and experience of guitar players down the years, and indeed against my own daily experience of regularly playing a variety of acoustic guitars. There must be something wrong with the methodology of the experiment - though I'm not interested enough to go through it in enough detail to find out where and why.

The differences produced by the use of different woods are not difficult to hear, but they're not consistent either, partly because no two pieces of wood are the same. My understanding is that the guitar top dominates the character of the sound, with additional characteristics provided by the back and sides. The fact that the back and sides are less critical means that some very fine guitars have been made with laminated woods for the back and sides.

A common combination has been spruce for the top and rosewood back and sides (like the classic Martin country guitars). Blues guitars are often made entirely of mahogany (including the top), and they stand out a mile, with a boxy, woody, raw sound. Guitars like the Gibson J200 have maple back and sides, which tends to give them a ringing clarity that's quite characteristic of that particular wood.

But these are just general trends. So many other factors affect the sound of an acoustic guitar (eg bracing) that one cannot be sure, in advance, how any one particular guitar will sound, purely based on a knowledge of its woods.

Well, it's true that the effect of the back and sides to the sound is smaller compared to the top. In that test you linked, I find it strange that they only recorded the guitars from the the bridge as opposed to a microphone in front of the whole guitar, as it emphasizes the top, like they acknowledge in the test - and they even point out that the bridge pickups are not identical in the guitars, even disregarding the Yamaha. If they had also used a microphone in front of the guitarist, they could have compared the signal peaks and assess the effect of the back and sides much better. It seems like they really wanted to prove there's no reason to use unsustainable sources of wood by trying to show it doesn't make a difference what wood you use for the sides and back. I also can't help wondering how much the testing conditions in the blind playing test affected the results. There should have been a blind listening test of sound recordings from a microphone in front of the guitar.

     If you play a solid body electric the tonal concerns are largely shifted to the electronics. My Pinecaster might sound a little different than a typical ash/alder Tele, but it still sounds like a Tele.

     In terms of ampage everything I have is chosen for what the basic circuits could do when they were designed and the uses that are still made of them to this day. One amp is a fanatically correct clone of a 1963 design used by the Beatles when they came to America. My other pieces are what one might call Frankenamps, with a blend of features from different models or even different makers.

     My approach is so antique it might puzzle some contemporary electric players that have many more sonic options at their fingertips. The reason for it stems from the tradeoff between getting a very wide set of tonal options and getting fewer ones that to me sound better. A complex "sound like anything" amp can sound like anything up to a point, and that point is that it can't sound like a "sound like basically one thing" amp.

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 02, 2019, 08:48:19 PM
Thanks for the information guys--very interesting. I also wonder about guitars used in Flamenco music, where slapping is involved--can spruce stand up to that long term?

I think any stress/strain due to "slapping" is minuscule compared to the stress/strain involved in sustaining the tension on the 6 strings.

Quote from: drogulus on May 06, 2019, 10:44:56 AM


     If you play a solid body electric the tonal concerns are largely shifted to the electronics. My Pinecaster might sound a little different than a typical ash/alder Tele, but it still sounds like a Tele.

     In terms of ampage everything I have is chosen for what the basic circuits could do when they were designed and the uses that are still made of them to this day. One amp is a fanatically correct clone of a 1963 design used by the Beatles when they came to America. My other pieces are what one might call Frankenamps, with a blend of features from different models or even different makers.

     My approach is so antique it might puzzle some contemporary electric players that have many more sonic options at their fingertips. The reason for it stems from the tradeoff between getting a very wide set of tonal options and getting fewer ones that to me sound better. A complex "sound like anything" amp can sound like anything up to a point, and that point is that it can't sound like a "sound like basically one thing" amp.

I guess I am an old/school Luddite, but excessive reliance on pedals and electronic effects strikes me as threatening to turn the guitar into a toy rather than a musical instrument.

I think of musicianship as the art of encountering an instrument as it is and exploring its possibilities, finding out what music can be teased out of it. That's why I ended up with the hollow body electric, to get the 'sound' I found so attractive on my Jazz albums.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 06, 2019, 10:51:49 AM
I guess I am an old/school Luddite, but excessive reliance on pedals and electronic effects strikes me as threatening to turn the guitar into a toy rather than a musical instrument.

I think of musicianship as the art of encountering an instrument as it is and exploring its possibilities, finding out what music can be teased out of it. That's why I ended up with the hollow body electric, to get the 'sound' I found so attractive on my Jazz albums.

     I mostly disagree. I'm totally with Hendrix when he observed that his guitar and amp were one instrument. I don't intend my sonic preferences to be treated as rules of musical conduct, though I would suggest that it would be wise for any electric guitarist to learn as much as they can stand about how play play in a "straight wire with gain" kind of way. Playing at low gain settings forces you to clean up your act technique-wise. Then when you stomp on your Klon Centaur you will rule the world. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)}

Quote from: drogulus on May 06, 2019, 11:04:55 AM
     I mostly disagree. I'm totally with Hendrix when he observed that his guitar and amp were one instrument. I don't intend my sonic preferences to be treated as rules of musical conduct, though I would suggest that it would be wise for any electric guitarist to learn as much as they can stand about how play play in a "straight wire with gain" kind of way. Playing at low gain settings forces you to clean up your act technique-wise. Then when you stomp on your Klon Centaur you will rule the world. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)}

I agree with the bolded, an electric guitar doesn't work with high-fidelity amplifier. Distortion in the amp is part of the 'instrument.'

I guess you can compare a guitar with numerous pedal effects available at the flip of a switch to a pipe organ with it's myriad ranks and stops. But I don't find the pipe organ, for all of it's sonic splendor, to be a particularly expressive instrument.

I think this is the amp I had back in the day. This or something similar, Univox S150R.

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--7xQ4blxP--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1449696124/mkaeqw0caxybsncfnoue.jpg)

It had built in reverb and tremolo effects. Later I tended to use it with a Ibanez tube screamer pedal, because the amp itself didn't lend itself to overdriving.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 06, 2019, 11:20:12 AM
I agree with the bolded, an electric guitar doesn't work with high-fidelity amplifier. Distortion in the amp is part of the 'instrument.'

     Ooooohhhhh yes it does! While there is a class of "pawn shop" amps that are low fidelity, amp distortion is not to be associated with low fidelity. Many amp designs met the hifi standards of the day. The most famous ones didn't (Fender, Marshall, Vox). Others (Sunn, Standel, Hiwatt, Magnatone) did just as well as the Fisher and Dynaco stuff in peoples homes. Sunn amps were Dynaco. Listen to Mississippi Queen by Mountain, that's Dynaco. Jimi Hendrix used Sunn at times.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 06, 2019, 10:51:49 AM
I guess I am an old/school Luddite, but excessive reliance on pedals and electronic effects strikes me as threatening to turn the guitar into a toy rather than a musical instrument.

I think of musicianship as the art of encountering an instrument as it is and exploring its possibilities, finding out what music can be teased out of it. That's why I ended up with the hollow body electric, to get the 'sound' I found so attractive on my Jazz albums.

Would you say the same thing about synthesizers? I think it's important to remember that effects only can help those that are willing to explore their possibilities. If sonic exploration is of no interest, then one might as well get an amplifier they like and a guitar they love to play and just plug straight into it and forget everything else. Some guitarists are interested in doing just that while others, like myself, enjoy shaping a guitar's sound and manipulating it to get otherworldly sounds and the only way to achieve this is through digital processing. Don't get me wrong I love a jazz tone a la Jim Hall or Wes Montgomery, but I love hearing guitarists that get beyond this tone and craft new ones.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
Would you say the same thing about synthesizers? I think it's important to remember that effects only can help those that are willing to explore their possibilities. If sonic exploration is of no interest, then one might as well get an amplifier they like and a guitar they love to play and just plug straight into it and forget everything else. Some guitarists are interested in doing just that while others, like myself, enjoy shaping a guitar's sound and manipulating it to get otherworldly sounds and the only way to achieve this is through digital processing. Don't get me wrong I love a jazz tone a la Jim Hall or Wes Montgomery, but I love hearing guitarists that get beyond this tone and craft new ones.

Well yes, it is a matter of taste and what you are interested in. I am primarily interested in the basics, melody, harmony and rhythm.

I think of it this way: piano literature developed so far because the piano itself was a given (although there has been a slow evolution in timbre from a 19th century instrument to the ones that are produced today). Electronic manipulation can give a lot of flexibility, but a lot of flexibility can result in a failure to focus the art of composition.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 06, 2019, 03:06:45 PM
Well yes, it is a matter of taste and what you are interested in. I am primarily interested in the basics, melody, harmony and rhythm.

I think of it this way: piano literature developed so far because the piano itself was a given (although there has been a slow evolution in timbre from a 19th century instrument to the ones that are produced today). Electronic manipulation can give a lot of flexibility, but a lot of flexibility can result in a failure to focus the art of composition.

Well, I realized a long time ago I'm not a gifted melodist nor am I particularly good at rhythm, so where does that leave me? Harmony and texture mainly. I've always been interested in atmosphere in music and creating an atmosphere in which I could escape in. I suppose this could be my creed. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2019, 04:02:18 PM
Well, I realized a long time ago I'm not a gifted melodist nor am I particularly good at rhythm, so where does that leave me? Harmony and texture mainly. I've always been interested in atmosphere in music and creating an atmosphere in which I could escape in. I suppose this could be my creed. :)

I'm not great an any of it (except listening). We all gravitate towards what we like. I think I'll listen to Wes Montgomery on the drive home from work. I have his guitar, but not his genius.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 06, 2019, 04:07:41 PM
I'm not great an any of it (except listening). We all gravitate towards what we like. I think I'll listen to Wes Montgomery on the drive home from work. I have his guitar, but not his genius.

I wish I had the skill of Montgomery's thumb alone! Enjoy the music.

    I played my Green Thing 2 days in a row through my newest amp. I was surprised to find that even a little bit more fooling around allowed some of the skills I lost from 20 years of non playing to come back. I flipped the "Purity of Essence" switch on the amp on Day One and was so dazzled by the sound I went back the next day for more.

I think I finally have my dream effects board put together and I've backed off considerably on the effect level of each effect to where some are now more subtler than they were before. I also switched to a 'Hall' reverb setting that I'm more than pleased with and the trailing effect is not quite so prominent. The purity of my tone is preserved.

Photos coming soon and hopefully I can run through a quick demonstration of my board.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2019, 06:38:06 AM
I think I finally have my dream effects board put together and I've backed off considerably on the effect level of each effect to where some are now more subtler than they were before. I also switched to a 'Hall' reverb setting that I'm more than pleased with and the trailing effect is not quite so prominent. The purity of my tone is preserved.

Photos coming soon and hopefully I can run through a quick demonstration of my board.

     My Strymon pedal has 2 Fendery spring reverb settings and something like a hall setting, which I find myself using a lot.

Quote from: drogulus on May 10, 2019, 08:11:48 AM
     My Strymon pedal has 2 Fendery spring reverb settings and something like a hall setting, which I find myself using a lot.

Very nice. What I like about hall reverbs is the spaciousness of them and how they make your sound fuller. I never did care for spring or plate reverb.

Hopefully, a better video than the last one I did of my effects setup:

https://www.youtube.com/v/tYtDTVz1-Y8

By the time of this video, I have assembled my final pedalboard (I hope), but in the video I didn't explain what I'm using or how any of the effects are setup. If anyone wants to know, I'd be more than willing to go through the video and point out what's what.

Interesting sounds, and interesting harmonies.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 15, 2019, 08:30:42 PM
Interesting sounds, and interesting harmonies.

Thanks, Scarpia. The majority of the demonstration was improvised, but there were some snippets of pieces I've been working on lately. :)

For those wondering, which I know is no one ;D , here are the effects and equipment I'm using:

I won't picture any guitar as I usually play through a Fender Stratocaster or a Les Paul, but in the video from above I was playing an Ibanez SA-160.

So from the guitar, I go into the following (in order):

(https://www.thomann.de/pics/bdb/133225/10035143_800.jpg)

(https://www.long-mcquade.com/files/6942/tu2.JPG)

(https://img.audiofanzine.com/images/u/product/normal/clone-central-pedals-demon-tube-screamer-261954.jpg)

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/mobius_topdown_1600.jpg)

(https://static.roland.com/assets/images/products/gallery/dd6_gal.jpg)

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/TimeLine_knobs_1600-1024x751.jpg)

(https://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/BigSky_knobs_1600-1024x754.jpg)

From here my signal is split to two of these amplifiers:

(http://davesguitar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ISI7566.jpg)

     What about strings? Who uses what, and why?

     Up to now I've used EB regular 10-46, because why not?

Quote from: drogulus on June 06, 2019, 10:16:10 AM
     What about strings? Who uses what, and why?

     Up to now I've used EB regular 10-46, because why not?

I use Ernie Ball 10s. I've also used D'Addario from time to time.

     I'm thinking about getting some premium strings. I have Pyramid Gold flats on my Starfire bass, and they will never come off. For guitar I could go with one of the Pyramid sets, or Thomastik-Infeld.

Quote from: drogulus on June 06, 2019, 08:58:06 PM
     I'm thinking about getting some premium strings. I have Pyramid Gold flats on my Starfire bass, and they will never come off. For guitar I could go with one of the Pyramid sets, or Thomastik-Infeld.

Hey drogulus,  FWIW (probably f*ck all) I'm using a Thomastik set on one of my custom shop telecasters. I like them, but then again, I'm prone to buying whatever nickel 11 gauge I can for cheap - some places will sell you 24 sets at a discount. Labels mean little to me.

MI, glad to see you're obviously enjoying your playing.  Keep it up, bro. 8)



e:


(https://i.imgur.com/z09KFtP.jpg)

Quote from: NikF4 on June 07, 2019, 05:00:29 AM
Hey drogulus,  FWIW (probably f*ck all) I'm using a Thomastik set on one of my custom shop telecasters. I like them, but then again, I'm prone to buying whatever nickel 11 gauge I can for cheap - some places will sell you 24 sets at a discount. Labels mean little to me.

MI, glad to see you're obviously enjoying your playing.  Keep it up, bro. 8)



e:


(https://i.imgur.com/z09KFtP.jpg)

     Cool, I'll stick with 10s, and people swear by the TI Blues Sliders. OTOH the Pyramid round core pure nickel are surprisingly inexpensive.

Quote from: NikF4 on June 07, 2019, 05:00:29 AMMI, glad to see you're obviously enjoying your playing.  Keep it up, bro. 8)

Thanks, Nik. I wouldn't say I'm enjoying my own playing, but I do enjoy playing the guitar quite a bit. :) I guess I do enjoy playing since I've been playing for 25 years now. ;)

     I'm enjoying playing the Green Thing through my newest amp and speaker with my 3D cab.

     (https://i.imgur.com/BIQ6ua6.jpg)

     AMP: Divided/13 JRT 9/15, 9 watts in class A, 15 in normal mode

     Speaker: Fane AXA 12-100 OOP for several years now but I managed with inhuman persistence to score a new old stock one.

     A 3d cab is closed in the back with side vents and internal deflector panels. So, unlike a typical open back amp you can put it up against a wall and it will sound the same.

Another addition to my effect pedal arsenal:

(https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/618982/files/13179478/800x1024x2/electro-harmonix-electro-harmonix-grand-canyon-del.jpg)

This will be the fourth delay pedal I've bought. The others being the Strymon Timeline, Boss DD-6 Digital Delay, and Electro-Harmonix Memory Man with Hazarai.

     I think I would be happy just using an overdrive pedal into my Flint, though I'm intrigued by the Strymon El Capistan.
     

Ah, the good old days when "overdrive" was obtained by actually overdriving your equipment, not a DSP programmed by a bunch of applied mathematicians...

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on June 10, 2019, 01:48:00 PM
Ah, the good old days when "overdrive" was obtained by actually overdriving your equipment, not a DSP programmed by a bunch of applied mathematicians...

     I don't even like master volumes on amps, that's how puritanical I am. But I live in an apartment, so cooking the power tubes is not an option.

Currently, I have my eyes on this effects box:

(https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-c31cfb81db28c9d0__hmac-aced4f93263d0ca57a2c3fe48f9add954327ae27/images/items/750/AvalancheV2-large.jpg)

     I fear pedals metastasizing all over the floor. It give me the heebee-jeebies to even think about them all sitting on my spare gear table looking accusingly at me.

     In a situation like that nothing else will do than buying another pedal. Not just any pedal though, but a Swiss Army pedal to put an end to the madness.

     (https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-e2ceb5ac6a75b72e__hmac-d3ab696dcd2a981a99480b08cebd2dd7cd10504e/images/items/750/RumbleSeat-large.jpg)

     One pedal for everything.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/MRVGhVGvAwc

Quote from: drogulus on June 10, 2019, 06:38:07 PM
     I fear pedals metastasizing all over the floor. It give me the heebee-jeebies to even think about them all sitting on my spare gear table looking accusingly at me.

     In a situation like that nothing else will do than buying another pedal. Not just any pedal though, but a Swiss Army pedal to put an end to the madness.

     (https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-e2ceb5ac6a75b72e__hmac-d3ab696dcd2a981a99480b08cebd2dd7cd10504e/images/items/750/RumbleSeat-large.jpg)

     One pedal for everything.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/MRVGhVGvAwc

I really despise pedals like this. One problem I have with this particular pedal is it does many things but doesn't really succeed at any of them as most multi-effects pedals and processors have proven to me in my 20+ years of playing. I think if you build a pedalboard and pick out certain pedals that you'd like use, then it wouldn't give you the 'heebee-jeebies'. But you don't really strike me as a guitarist that likes to explore new sonic terrain. You come across as a plug-and-play type of player, which is fine, but, personally, I like to have a variety of tonal palettes at my disposal.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2019, 06:39:56 AM
I really despise pedals like this. One problem I have with this particular pedal is it does many things but doesn't really succeed at any of them as most multi-effects pedals and processors have proven to me in my 20+ years of playing. I think if you build a pedalboard and pick out certain pedals that you'd like use, then it wouldn't give you the 'heebee-jeebies'. But you don't really strike me as a guitarist that likes to explore new sonic terrain. You come across as a plug-and-play type of player, which is fine, but, personally, I like to have a variety of tonal palettes at my disposal.

     You are mostly right. My tonal explorations can be done with a minimal pedal set. With the right overdrive pedal and the Flint I'd have all the options I need. For me the most important considerations are having the right guitar and pickups, and the right amp/speaker combination. These give me a base strong enough to get a good sound with or without pedals.

Quote from: drogulus on June 11, 2019, 07:18:12 AM
     You are mostly right. My tonal explorations can be done with a minimal pedal set. With the right overdrive pedal and the Flint I'd have all the options I need. For me the most important considerations are having the right guitar and pickups, and the right amp/speaker combination. These give me a base strong enough to get a good sound with or without pedals.

Yes, you're definitely an amphead (if I may use such a term). I like a great sounding amplifier as much as you do, but I place more importance on the guitar (esp. pickups, the neck, and just the general playability of it), but also the effects that I'm using as I absolutely hate a dry signal and if I'm not inspired by my own sound, then I'm likely to put the guitar down in frustration, which is why I usually avoid guitar stores, because 1. I can't hear myself think :D and 2. I can never get a good sound in those places, but, also, the people (not all of them) that work in guitar stores are usually incredibly obnoxious.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2019, 07:41:39 AM
Yes, you're definitely an amphead (if I may use such a term). I like a great sounding amplifier as much as you do, but I place more importance on the guitar (esp. pickups, the neck, and just the general playability of it), but also the effects that I'm using as I absolutely hate a dry signal and if I'm not inspired by my own sound, then I'm likely to put the guitar down in frustration, which is why I usually avoid guitar stores, because 1. I can't hear myself think :D and 2. I can never get a good sound in those places, but, also, the people (not all of them) that work in guitar stores are usually incredibly obnoxious.

No one can dispute the bolded statement.  :laugh: I remember the last time I bought a guitar, it was the late 80's at the Sam Ash store in Manhattan, on 48th street. The procedure: you say, "I'm interested in that one," he takes it down and says, "let me check that it's set up okay" and plays it for 5 minutes to demonstrate that he plays better than you. Then he hands it over with an irritated look as if the say "I'm the one who should have this guitar, not a no-talent idiot like you." I want to say, "Nice that you play so nice, but I'm the one that can afford to buy the guitar."

     Most of my stuff can't be bought in stores, not even online. The thing is, custom built stuff is not necessarily super expensive. Both of my guitars and my custom bass were less than $2k. You can spend much more than that in a store.

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on June 11, 2019, 08:03:31 AM
No one can dispute the bolded statement.  :laugh: I remember the last time I bought a guitar, it was the late 80's at the Sam Ash store in Manhattan, on 48th street. The procedure: you say, "I'm interested in that one," he takes it down and says, "let me check that it's set up okay" and plays it for 5 minutes to demonstrate that he plays better than you. Then he hands it over with an irritated look as if the say "I'm the one who should have this guitar, not a no-talent idiot like you." I want to say, "Nice that you play so nice, but I'm the one that can afford to buy the guitar."

That sounds like a similar experience of my own. :) I remember one guy shredding the guitar like a Yngwie Malmsteen clone that I asked if I could play and a a couple of minutes went by before I couldn't take his egomania any longer, so I told him "If I wanted to hear Yngwie Malmsteen, I'd go listen to one of his boring albums to hear the real thing, so can I now play the guitar I asked you to get down for me?" The look this wanker gave me was priceless. ;D

Quote from: drogulus on June 11, 2019, 10:01:22 AM
     Most of my stuff can't be bought in stores, not even online. The thing is, custom built stuff is not necessarily super expensive. Both of my guitars and my custom bass were less than $2k. You can spend much more than that in a store.

Same here. My dad has built several guitars. Well, I shouldn't have said 'built' but assembled from various parts, but he's done a lot of work with pickups (soldering and so forth). He does fine work and knows exactly how to setup a guitar to where it's playing extremely well. We both favor lower action on the strings.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2019, 07:12:43 PM
Same here. My dad has built several guitars. Well, I shouldn't have said 'built' but assembled from various parts, but he's done a lot of work with pickups (soldering and so forth). He does fine work and knows exactly how to setup a guitar to where it's playing extremely well. We both favor lower action on the strings.

     I wouldn't have action so low I couldn't do bends right. I call it the Black Magic Woman test. If I can't do my cruddy approximation of what Peter Green did the action is probably too low.

     

     

Quote from: drogulus on June 12, 2019, 06:35:33 AM
     I wouldn't have action so low I couldn't do bends right. I call it the Black Magic Woman test. If I can't do my cruddy approximation of what Peter Green did the action is probably too low.
   

Yeah. When bending the third string it's usually up the way - towards the fourth string - but sometimes I incorporate a bend (of a whole tone) by bending the third string down towards the second string, keeping it ringing, then catching the second string under the same finger, and playing it, then finally pushing them both back up that same whole tone. And there's no way I can do that with a low action. Having said that, all my Telecasters have 6100 frets.
Maybe someone with more skill can do it with a low action, but not me.

e: if my description of that bend doesn't make sense, let me know and maybe I'll break the habit of a lifetime and record a video to illustrate it. Or you could always check out Jerry Donahue executing it with panache.  ;D

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 06:43:59 AM
Yeah. When bending the third string it's usually up the way - towards the fourth string - but sometimes I incorporate a bend (of a whole tone) by bending the third string down towards the second string, keeping it ringing, then catching the second string under the same finger, and playing it, then finally pushing them both back up that same whole tone. And there's no way I can do that with a low action. Having said that, all my Telecasters have 6100 frets.
Maybe someone with more skill can do it with a low action, but not me.

e: if my description of that bend doesn't make sense, let me know and maybe I'll break the habit of a lifetime and record a video to illustrate it. Or you could always check out Jerry Donahue executing it with panache.  ;D

     A whole tone bend down towards the second string makes sense, but I'm not good at it.

     Uh oh.....my Green Thing cost more than $2k. I went to the site and read the FAQ.

Quote from: drogulus on June 12, 2019, 07:01:32 AM
     A whole tone bend down towards the second string makes sense, but I'm not good at it.

     Uh oh.....my Green Thing cost more than $2k. I went to the site and read the FAQ.

'Not good at it'; It's like anything else, mate - time and patience bring reward. And I'll be fucked if I ever allow myself to be intimidated by learning something new on guitar. Really, bollocks to that.
Having said that, your Green Thing intimidates both me and even the inanimate objects that are my Teles. Good stuff.  ;D

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 06:43:59 AM
Yeah. When bending the third string it's usually up the way - towards the fourth string - but sometimes I incorporate a bend (of a whole tone) by bending the third string down towards the second string, keeping it ringing, then catching the second string under the same finger, and playing it, then finally pushing them both back up that same whole tone. And there's no way I can do that with a low action. Having said that, all my Telecasters have 6100 frets.
Maybe someone with more skill can do it with a low action, but not me.

e: if my description of that bend doesn't make sense, let me know and maybe I'll break the habit of a lifetime and record a video to illustrate it. Or you could always check out Jerry Donahue executing it with panache.  ;D

Um... I'm gonna have to try this.
But not completely sure what you mean by the final bend.

Sometimes i like to play the strings using dimes over the frets, with both hands. You can even make it contrapuntal this way.

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2019, 07:39:31 AM
Um... I'm gonna have to try this.
But not completely sure what you mean by the final bend.

Sometimes i like to play the strings using dimes over the frets, with both hands. You can even make it contrapuntal this way.

I've made a video but can't get my new YouTube account to accept it. So for now, bend any note on the third/G string down and away from you a whole tone. While it rings, with the same finger on the same fret play the second/B string. Note: at this point the third/G is still ringing. Push the second/B string up and towards you a whole tone while allowing the third/G string to return to it's original pitch. It's two notes sounding at the same time, but one bending up while the other bends down.
Further, you can make it bluesy by playing it natural and loose, or almost pedal steel like by making it mechanical and almost sterile im execution.

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 09:02:04 AM
I've made a video but can't get my new YouTube account to accept it. So for now, bend any note on the third/G string down and away from you a whole tone. While it rings, with the same finger on the same fret play the second/B string. Note: at this point the third/G is still ringing. Push the second/B string up and towards you a whole tone while allowing the third/G string to return to it's original pitch. It's two notes sounding at the same time, but one bending up while the other bends down.
Further, you can make it bluesy by playing it natural and loose, or almost pedal steel like by making it mechanical and almost sterile im execution.

Ok thanks for clarifying. This is what i thought you might have meant, but wasn't sure.
I'll try it at home, though like you said, might be hard for a guitar with low action.

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2019, 09:18:11 AM
Ok thanks for clarifying. This is what i thought you might have meant, but wasn't sure.
I'll try it at home, though like you said, might be hard for a guitar with low action.

You're welcome.

I can't seem to get YouTube to accept the whole file, but -
https://youtu.be/mZaSmcH3pCM

Yeah, I get the difficulty with the low action. It's a compromise.

     
     Reverb says these are the best selling overdrive pedals on their site. Some are used, some new.

1    Electro-Harmonix Soul Food    $50 - $79
2    Paul Cochrane Timmy    $115 - $130
3    Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer    $65 - $100
4    Fulltone OCD V4    $80 - $115
5    Xotic EP Booster    $80 - $115
6    Boss BD-2 Blues Driver    $50 - $99
7    Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive    $30 - $49
8    Ibanez Tube Screamer Mini    $65 - $80
9    J. Rockett Archer    $130 - $189
10    Fulltone Full-Drive 2 MOSFET    $80 - $115
11    JHS Morning Glory    $140 - $199
12    Klon KTR    $220 - $270
13    Xotic RC Booster    $110 - $169
14    Analogman King of Tone V4    $400 - $500
15    Ibanez TS808 Tube Screamer Reissue    $100 - $179
16    Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret MKIII    $120 - $169
17    J. Rockett Archer Ikon    $150 - $199
18    JHS Superbolt    $135 - $199
19    Walrus Audio Voyager    $120 - $189
20    Earthquaker Devices Palisades    $180 - $250

     Something tells me I want a Klon (or "Klone"). Something else tells me to just get the goddam Tube Screamer and stop being a gear snob about something that doesn't matter.

     

Quote from: drogulus on June 12, 2019, 10:10:50 AM
     
     Reverb says these are the best selling overdrive pedals on their site. Some are used, some new.

1    Electro-Harmonix Soul Food    $50 - $79
2    Paul Cochrane Timmy    $115 - $130
3    Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer    $65 - $100
4    Fulltone OCD V4    $80 - $115
5    Xotic EP Booster    $80 - $115
6    Boss BD-2 Blues Driver    $50 - $99
7    Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive    $30 - $49
8    Ibanez Tube Screamer Mini    $65 - $80
9    J. Rockett Archer    $130 - $189
10    Fulltone Full-Drive 2 MOSFET    $80 - $115
11    JHS Morning Glory    $140 - $199
12    Klon KTR    $220 - $270
13    Xotic RC Booster    $110 - $169
14    Analogman King of Tone V4    $400 - $500
15    Ibanez TS808 Tube Screamer Reissue    $100 - $179
16    Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret MKIII    $120 - $169
17    J. Rockett Archer Ikon    $150 - $199
18    JHS Superbolt    $135 - $199
19    Walrus Audio Voyager    $120 - $189
20    Earthquaker Devices Palisades    $180 - $250

     Something tells me I want a Klon (or "Klone"). Something else tells me to just get the goddam Tube Screamer and stop being a gear snob about something that doesn't matter.

   

I've no idea, but only because it's not my bag.

e: it's like custom wound pickups '5 or 10% under/over wound' - there are no conditions under which I'm going to perceive any difference.

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 10:16:06 AM
I've no idea, but only because it's not my bag.

e: it's like custom wound pickups '5 or 10% under/over wound' - there are no conditions under which I'm going to perceive any difference.

     I wouldn't want hot humbuckers. They're hot enough just being the kind of pickups they are. A Peter Green set would be just the thing for me.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/nMrbz_gsYSk

     

Quote from: drogulus on June 12, 2019, 10:49:01 AM
     I wouldn't want hot humbuckers. They're hot enough just being the kind of pickups they are. A Peter Green set would be just the thing for me.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/nMrbz_gsYSk

   

Very nice. Despite all the variables they kind of sound underwound to me, although I'm not sure that's the correct term. I remember playing a Duncan Seth Lover set for all of five minutes and liking them - especially the neck pickup - and those seem in the ballpark.
Anyway, you thinking of acquiring that Peter Green set and putting them in something?

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 10:55:04 AM
Very nice. Despite all the variables they kind of sound underwound to me, although I'm not sure that's the correct term. I remember playing a Duncan Seth Lover set for all of five minutes and liking them - especially the neck pickup - and those seem in the ballpark.
Anyway, you thinking of acquiring that Peter Green set and putting them in something?

     I'm always thinking about what I might like in the way of a set neck guitar, either with humbuckers or P90s. That doesn't mean I'm going to buy something.

     Greenie pickups shouldn't be hot, they are supposed to have a rich tone. Greenies are an aberrant version of the perfect pickup for a 335. The aberration is that the poles on one pickup are magnetically reversed and the neck pickup is installed backwards.

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 09:32:45 AM
You're welcome.

I can't seem to get YouTube to accept the whole file, but -
https://youtu.be/mZaSmcH3pCM

Yeah, I get the difficulty with the low action. It's a compromise.

Cool!

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
Cool!

Now take your third finger and move it up two frets and on to the D string. Bend that up a whole tone and keep it ringing while you play the part I've shown in the video. And finally end it by bringing the (still ringing) bent note on the D back down so the three notes are all sounding together.
Or just take the idea and/or the technique and do your thing to suit your needs.

Quote from: NikF4 on June 12, 2019, 01:03:25 PM
Now take your third finger and move it up two frets and on to the D string. Bend that up a whole tone and keep it ringing while you play the part I've shown in the video. And finally end it by bringing the (still ringing) bent note on the D back down so the three notes are all sounding together.
Or just take the idea and/or the technique and do your thing to suit your needs.

Gotcha.

Pretty easy to do quickly with moderately low action, actually. All you gotta make sure to do is make sure your index finger is angled so that it's pointing in the direction of your bridge, and right before the B string is struck, mute it with the left hand pinky by pressing down

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2019, 03:04:10 PM
Gotcha.

Pretty easy to do quickly with moderately low action, actually. All you gotta make sure to do is make sure your index finger is angled so that it's pointing in the direction of your bridge, and right before the B string is struck, mute it with the left hand pinky by pressing down

Cool. I'll check that out when I've a suitable guitar at hand.

So John inspired me to listen to some boring Malmsteen album that I haven't listened to in a long time.

I chose... Eclipse. Because actually half of it is kinda boring, actually. But a few good tracks.

I love this track. Takes me back to 8th grade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kjxV3Z5ypk&list=PLNc-FFHqewsO0RZ2uYeR5gdjNGiNZqnGI&index=5

That outro riff is just... dirty.  ;D

But tbh the majority of his discography focuses a bit more on catchy melodies, so that's really where it is hit or miss, more so than his playing itself.

     Eclipse means something different to me. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)}

     (https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/photos/var/resizes/Pink-Floyd-Photos/tour-programmes/1972-Eclipse-A-Piece-For-Assorted-Lunatics/01.jpg?m=1391961530)

     I went to the NY Academy of Music in 1972 to see one of my favorite bands touring their upcoming album.

     Hang on, I think it must have been Carnegie Hall.

     After a consultation with experts it's determined that the concert in question was at Radio City Music Hall on March 17, 1973

Set One:

    "Obscured By Clouds"
    "When You're In"
    "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun"
    "Careful with That Axe, Eugene"
    "Echoes" (served as the opening number during the first few weeks in March)

Set Two:

    "Speak to Me"
    "Breathe"
    "On the Run"
    "Time"/"Breathe (Reprise)"
    "The Great Gig in the Sky"
    "Money"
    "Us and Them"
    "Any Colour You Like"
    "Brain Damage"
    "Eclipse"

Encore:

    "One of These Days"

     

     The best electric guitar sound I ever heard live was:

     (https://i.imgur.com/mK7jVNU.jpg)

     Clapton > Firebird I > coily cord > Marshall Superlead x 2 > 16 Celestion greenbacks