There are quite a number of Schumann piano works beyond those established in the repertory and here's what appears to be a complete recording. I don't buy much these days but I just ordered it- can anyone comment on Demus or the lesser known Schumann?
Harking back to your Kempff/Schubert thread, he also has a Schumann box set which is probably better than this.
Sure thing Holden, though this one is a 13 CD survey: I got it for a bargain £30 with a bosted box- otherwise is £100.
Quote from: Holden on August 22, 2007, 12:15:31 PM
Harking back to your Kempff/Schubert thread, he also has a Schumann box set which is probably better than this.
Definitely better. Demus' Schumann is good, but there's much better out there; also Demus isn't afforded very good sonics.
Demus is serviceable. As far as i know it's the only complete set out there so it's not like there's much in terms of choices.
Klara Wurtz released a 3cd set under Brilliant which is the first volume in what i assume is going to be a complete set. Her Mozart was very good so i'd keep an eye on her.
Thanks Josquin- I'll be playing it over the next few weeks.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 06:10:37 AM
Demus is serviceable. As far as i know it's the only complete set out there so it's not like there's much in terms of choices.
I think there's another complete set on the Thorofon label; the pianist is Franz Vorraber, and he's quite good and not mainstream at all.
Amazingly there doesn't seem to be a thread.
Let me kick it off with a question/request
I'm keen to hear Edwin Fischer's Schumann Fantasie, but as far as I can see it's completely unavailable except through a highly priced big Schumann box from andante.
Can anyone help? :D
hello Mandryka
I can't help but would be interested to see what this thread develops into.
Schumann's output for solo piano is quite small when compared to his contemporaries (Chopin, Liszt, etc) but it's overall quality is another matter.
While you are interested in the Edwin Fischer Op 17 can I strongly suggest that you also seek out Sergio Fiorentino (if you don't already have it).
Can't help either, but a review here: http://pianistes.ifrance.com/schumann.htm
suggests it is "laboured and heavy", to temper your disappointment! The Fantasie is one of the greatest and most enigmatic of piano masterpieces, I find, and I don't know of a performance that reconciles its staggering technical demands with the profound poetic suggestion it requires (see Rosen on this work). I haven't heard Fiorentino, though.
I have Klara Würtz, Freire, Pollini, Richter EMI, Annie Fischer, Horowitz, Kempff (mono), Moisewitsch, Gieseking, Backhaus - not so many, I don't know why, I suppose I heard a few more on the radio and came to the conclusion nobody was going to master this piece. Of the above, I dislike Horowitz (in general, actually, but there are a few things...), Kempff can't really bring it off. I hven't listened to it for a while so hesitate to comment on the others; Freire came with advance plaudits, I remember, and certainly masters it technically but I missed the depth, somehow. If you surprise me and say that for instance Arrau or Curzon really cuts it, I would go for that. I haven't heard the Richter on Doremi - is it good? If only I could afford the Dino Ciani box.
A few more records I am curious about:
Catherine Collard's (first) Erato Fantasie and DBT
(http://dvweb.mpf.arcstarmusic.com/mdb_image2/T2/tTVI2_326104_m.jpg)
Schumann Op 11 sonata by Vanessa Wagner (no pic)
Old piano Schumann -- Paul Komen maybe
(http://www.crotchet.co.uk/images/GLO5177.jpg)
or maybe Piet Kuijken (sorry about the enormity of the image) Changed it :), Que
(http://www.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/5400/5400439005624_600.jpg)
Quote from: mjwal on September 17, 2010, 01:56:52 AM
Can't help either, but a review here: http://pianistes.ifrance.com/schumann.htm
suggests it is "laboured and heavy", to temper your disappointment! The Fantasie is one of the greatest and most enigmatic of piano masterpieces, I find, and I don't know of a performance that reconciles its staggering technical demands with the profound poetic suggestion it requires (see Rosen on this work). I haven't heard Fiorentino, though.
I have Klara Würtz, Freire, Pollini, Richter EMI, Annie Fischer, Horowitz, Kempff (mono), Moisewitsch, Gieseking, Backhaus - not so many, I don't know why, I suppose I heard a few more on the radio and came to the conclusion nobody was going to master this piece. Of the above, I dislike Horowitz (in general, actually, but there are a few things...), Kempff can't really bring it off. I hven't listened to it for a while so hesitate to comment on the others; Freire came with advance plaudits, I remember, and certainly masters it technically but I missed the depth, somehow. If you surprise me and say that for instance Arrau or Curzon really cuts it, I would go for that. I haven't heard the Richter on Doremi - is it good? If only I could afford the Dino Ciani box.
I have the Ciani and while it is extremely good, Fiorentino is even better. BTW, there are TWO Fiorentino recordings of this work and they are so similar it's hard to tell them apart.
Just wanting to join this 'new' thread (not sure that we've not done this before?) - but, in the last few years, I've been trying to accumulate recordings of Schumann's Solo Piano Works - below is a list of what I currently own but am completely open to criticisms and further recommendations. I'd also be quite interested in 'complete' sets and/or those perform on pianos of Bob's times, i.e. fortepianos - thanks for all comments - :D
SCHUMANN'S SOLO PIANO WORKS
Op. 02: Papillons - Marc-Andre Hamelin
Op. 06: Davidsbundlertanze - Murray Perahia
Op. 09: Carnaval - Marc-Andre Hamelin
Op. 11: Piano Sonata, No.1 - Eric Le Sage & Klara Wurtz
Op. 12: Fantasiestucke - Marc-Andre Hamelin & Murray Perahia
Op. 13: Etudes symphoniques - Eric Le Sage
Op. 15: Kinderszenen - Martha Argerich
Op. 16: Kreisleriana - Klara Wurtz & Martha Argerich
Op. 17: Fantasie - Murray Perahia & Klara Wurtz
Op. 20: Humoreske - Eric Le Sage
Op. 22: Piano Sonata, No.2 - Klara Wurtz
Op. 26: Faschingsschwank aus Wien - Klara Wurtz
Op. 99: Bunte Blatter - Eric Le Sage
You can hear/watch Fiorentino in Op 17 here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fiorentino+schumann+fantasie&aq=f)
My research tends to suggest that he played this in Naples in 1979 or is it a recording of his famous German1993 concert?
Anyway, his two CDs are
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KK2WCYY1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
it's worth going to Amazon's site to read the reviews
and
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5153mbzimZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This recording was rated by IPQ as the best ever from over 60 including the famous Richter's. I still have a soft spot for the live recording (the CD has much better sound than the Youtube clips). There is something more atmospheric that really lends itself to this, my favourite Schumann piano work.
Some beautiful Schumann comes from Fabienne Jacquinot. I bought her two CDs having read very strong recommendations of her recordings on a different forum:
http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonic-Etudes-Childhood-Papillons/dp/B001NQEZ8I/ref=sr_1_11?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1284776860&sr=8-11
There is another one where she plays the Carnaval and Davidsbundlertanze. These are among my favorite Schumann CDs.
I have both of her Schumann CDs, I'd attach a jpg, but somehow I seem unable to do so.
There should be some excellent Schumann's solo piano music in this box. No?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K0bqHMdaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Holden on September 17, 2010, 01:03:38 AM
Schumann's output for solo piano is quite small when compared to his contemporaries (Chopin, Liszt, etc) but it's overall quality is another matter.
Are you sure about this? I have never checked a library to see the actual inches on the shelf, but I would not consider Schumann's piano solo output small.
Quote from: SonicMan on September 17, 2010, 02:49:42 PM
Just wanting to join this 'new' thread (not sure that we've not done this before?) - but, in the last few years, I've been trying to accumulate recordings of Schumann's Solo Piano Works - below is a list of what I currently own but am completely open to criticisms and further recommendations. I'd also be quite interested in 'complete' sets and/or those perform on pianos of Bob's times, i.e. fortepianos - thanks for all comments - :D
SCHUMANN'S SOLO PIANO WORKS
Op. 02: Papillons - Marc-Andre Hamelin
Op. 06: Davidsbundlertanze - Murray Perahia
Op. 09: Carnaval - Marc-Andre Hamelin
Op. 11: Piano Sonata, No.1 - Eric Le Sage & Klara Wurtz
Op. 12: Fantasiestucke - Marc-Andre Hamelin & Murray Perahia
Op. 13: Etudes symphoniques - Eric Le Sage
Op. 15: Kinderszenen - Martha Argerich
Op. 16: Kreisleriana - Klara Wurtz & Martha Argerich
Op. 17: Fantasie - Murray Perahia & Klara Wurtz
Op. 20: Humoreske - Eric Le Sage
Op. 22: Piano Sonata, No.2 - Klara Wurtz
Op. 26: Faschingsschwank aus Wien - Klara Wurtz
Op. 99: Bunte Blatter - Eric Le Sage
If you like the music I think you'd do yourself a real favor by going back in time a little and seek out recordings by Sv Richter, Arrau (his early Carnaval), Horowitz (Kinderszenen), Rubinstein (Fantasiestucke, Carnaval) and Michelangeli. Oh, and Papillons by Sofronitsky and Yves Nat.
Some favorites:
Humoreske - Schein, de Larrocha, Horowitz, Kempff
Davidsbundlertanze - Backhaus, Schein, Cortot, Gieseking, Anda, Kempff
Kinderszenen - Nat, A. Fischer, Oppitz, Arrau, Haelbler, Haskil, Moiseiwitch, Kubalek, Schnabel, Horszowski, Moravec.
Kreisleriana - Gieseking, Cortot, Schliessmann, Moiseiwitch, Brand, Horowitz, Karnavichius
Waldszenen - Wirssaladze, Richter
Sym. Etudes - Brand, Okashiro, Schliessmann
Fantasy - Richter, A. Fischer, Arrau, Freire, Horowitz
Toccata - Horowitz, Nat
Papillons - Freire, Richter
Romances - Collard, Kempff, Nat
Sonata No. 1 - Gilels, Wirssaladze
Sonata No. 2 - Collard, Berezovsky, Wirssaladze, Blanchard, Kempff
Bunte Blatter - Richter, Varjon, Egorov
Quote from: Bulldog on September 17, 2010, 10:16:38 PM
Some favorites: . . .
Kreisleriana -. . . Moiseiwitch. . .
You mean the LP or the CD?
If it's the LP, could you please transfer it beautifully and upload it for me :D I think Moiseiwitsch was good in Schumann -- but the CD of Kreisleriana doesn't do much for me. I've heard the LP is much better.
Quote from: Bulldog on September 17, 2010, 10:16:38 PM
Some favorites: . . .
Davidsbundlertanze - Backhaus . . .
I would love to hear this :D
Very good you mention Brand. The Symphonic Etudes is crazy -- was this guy on acid in concerts, or what? Too much for me. But the multiple orgasm style works better in Schumann than in Chopin I think. Thank god he never played the Fantasie!
Did anyone here see him?
One slight disappointment about your list is the lack of late works. Maybe you don't like them. Me the more I hear Album for the Young at Heart (Weissenberg, Ranki) and the late Fantasiestueke (Horowitz) the more I value them.
Actually I notice the earlier Fantasiestueke is not on your list either. Maybe it's not a favourite.
By the way, that was one of Yudina's pieces.
There are lots of names I haven't heard in Schumann : Schliessmann, Karnavichius, Okashiro (good Sdcriabin I think) , Varjon. It would be nice if you could sell them a bit -- you know, their style, idiosyncrasies . . .
Quote from: Herman on September 17, 2010, 09:29:28 PM
Are you sure about this? I have never checked a library to see the actual inches on the shelf, but I would not consider Schumann's piano solo output small.
Good point. I actually based this on my own library space so this might not be a good way for me to assess it. However, I'm sure that Liszt's output well and truly exceeds it and Chopin's does as well. The interesting thing is that Schumann seemed to go off solo piano works quite early on in his composing life. He was prolific up until about Op 26 and it then falls away quite significantly.
few I like (thanks for the template, Dave)
Op. 02: Papillons - Freire (live '94)
Op. 06: Davidsbundlertanze - Cortot
Op. 09: Carnaval - Rachmaninov, Michelangeli (live '57 & '73)
Op. 11: Piano Sonata, No.1 - Pollini, Sofronitsky
Op. 12: Fantasiestucke - Rubinstein
Op. 13: Etudes symphoniques - Pogorelich
Op. 15: Kinderszenen - Moiseiwitsch
Op. 16: Kreisleriana - Brand, Neuhaus, Cortot
Op. 17: Fantasie - Sofronitsky (live '59), Egorov
Op. 18: Arabeske - Sofronitsky (live '59)
Op. 20: Humoreske - Feinberg, Horowitz
Op. 22: Piano Sonata, No.2 - Richter
Op. 26: Faschingsschwank aus Wien - Michelangeli (live '68)
To reply to Mandryka's question about the late piano works: among the latter I am fascinated by Op. 133, particularly No.1, Im ruhigen Tempo. I have an obscure recording by a harpsichordist (!), Edith Picht-Axenfeld, playing a 1909 Bechstein (aurophon); Andreas Schiff (Warner); and Laurent Cabasso (naive). I actually prefer the first, because she gets more sheer agony and pathos into No.1 than the others. That torment is multiplied a thousandfold in Holliger's Gesänge der Frühe for chorus, orchestra and tape - after Robert Schumann and Friedrich Hölderlin, a work of what might be called recuperation (in a critical sense and an ironic one). One of the great ecm CDs for me, combining this work with Romanzen for cello and piano by Clara Schumann and Holliger's own Romancendres for the same combination.
Coming back to Op.17: I had a session yesterday afternoon and have revised my opinion: I learned to appreciate the Annie Fischer version more deeply, while the Klara Würtz recording develops tremendous power, I find (I think my first listening was rather uninvolved, as happens often with new purchases in my personal listening routine). Part of the reason why I like Fischer best is her amazing ability to produce different timbres from the piano for the different layers Schumann has created, thus the triumphant opening melody sails away with an obsessively muttering percussive bass line down below that sounds more like woodblocks than a piano's lower keys. And so there is a rich counterpoint of Klangfarbe (clangtint, as Adrian Corleonis used to say on Fanfare) which is maintained throughout the work, undercutting any tendency for it to be merely a romantic effusion; this brings me to a competitor for Holliger, in a way: the third performance of Op.17 I listened to knocked my socks off, being an orchestral re-imagination by Hans Zender (on Haenssler), Schumann-Phantasie for large orchestra (1997). You may know his controversial re-imagining of Winterreise - well, this is so OTT as to defy description, but the way it teases out strands of the musical texture by assigning them to different stylistic parameters has to be heard to be believed. (The recording on Haenssler is conducted - brilliantly - by Cambreling, though the second work on the disc is Z.'s own cello concerto Bardo conducted by himself w/Schiff; there is a recording with the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie conducted by Z. on Berlin Classics with Debussy conducted by Boulez and Ravel by Kondrashin - this looks so interesting that I shall get a copy when I return to Berlin in October). This was my best listening afternoon for quite a while.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 17, 2010, 11:43:27 PM
You mean the LP or the CD?
If it's the LP, could you please transfer it beautifully and upload it for me :D I think Moiseiwitsch was good in Schumann -- but the CD of Kreisleriana doesn't do much for me. I've heard the LP is much better.
I would love to hear this :D
Sorry - it's the Moiseiwitsch cd.
Serendipity - a friend of mine just mentioned hearing the Schumann romances on the radio, and said she'd add those to her repertoire. Watching (and listening) with interest.
There are a handful of recordings of Opus 17 which mean a lot to me.
Sofronitsky's 1951 Russian Conservatory performance has less than perfect sound. But it doesn't matter, because for sheer physical, spiritual, technical concentration, for eloquent singing, this is very marvellous. Glorious especially in the extraordinary profoundly dark, shaded
Etwas bewegter of II.
Sokolov's early LP of Op 17 is very idiosyncratic. Particularly special in III, with pointed rhythms and often rather slow tempos. Idiosyncratic elsewhere too – full of unusual and exciting ideas about the balances of the musical strands. It's an early recording from Sokolov, but you can tell he is a great pianist.
I also like
Pletnev for his gentleness, the way he avoids strong dynamic contrasts. But that's a reading only for the open minded!
Arrau's live one on Ermitage – but it is a long time since I heard that one. will listen again this week maybe. Parts have burnt itself on my consciousness – like the coda of II which is particularly free. But I have forgotten how the whole thing coheres – so who knows if I will still enjoy it?
And
Moiseiwitsch -- just for the beauty of tone.
Quote from: mjwal on September 18, 2010, 08:24:10 AM
To reply to Mandryka's question about the late piano works: among the latter I am fascinated by Op. 133, particularly No.1, Im ruhigen Tempo.
Yes -- very good. I heard Andersiewsky play it beautifully a couple of years ago (how time flies!) I have Brautigham only on CD (not good enough.)
Quote from: mjwal on September 18, 2010, 08:24:10 AM
. . . with an obsessively muttering percussive bass line down below that sounds more like woodblocks than a piano's lower keys. And so there is a rich counterpoint of Klangfarbe (clangtint, as Adrian Corleonis used to say on Fanfare) which is maintained throughout the work, undercutting any tendency for it to be merely a romantic effusion . . .
Very interesting, and your line of thought makes me even more keen to hear Op 17 on an old piano.
Quote from: Drasko on September 18, 2010, 12:34:19 AM
Op. 20: Humoreske - Feinberg, Horowitz
Is Feinberg on CD in this? I cans ee it's on youtube.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 18, 2010, 10:36:39 AM
There are a handful of recordings of Opus 17 which mean a lot to me.
Sofronitsky's 1951 Russian Conservatory performance has less than perfect sound. But it doesn't matter, because for sheer physical, spiritual, technical concentration, for eloquence eloquent singing, this is very marvellous. Glorious especially in the extraordinary profoundly dark, shaded Etwas bewegter of II.
Mandryka, do you know Sofronitsky's other two recordings? I love the 1959 in particular (in quite good sound overall), but I'll have to revisit the one you mention. There is also one from 1952.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 18, 2010, 10:36:39 AM
Is Feinberg on CD in this? I cans ee it's on youtube.
Yes, Arlecchino or Japanese Triton. Both oop.
(http://www.prox.jpn.org/~piano/feinberg/pianist/feinberg11.jpg)
Quote from: Holden on September 17, 2010, 04:00:43 PM
You can hear/watch Fiorentino in Op 17 here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fiorentino+schumann+fantasie&aq=f)
My research tends to suggest that he played this in Naples in 1979 or is it a recording of his famous German1993 concert?
Anyway, his two CDs are
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KK2WCYY1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
it's worth going to Amazon's site to read the reviews
and
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5153mbzimZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This recording was rated by IPQ as the best ever from over 60 including the famous Richter's. I still have a soft spot for the live recording (the CD has much better sound than the Youtube clips). There is something more atmospheric that really lends itself to this, my favourite Schumann piano work.
Holden,
Do you have both the live Fiorentino and studio in Op.17? I have the live and agree it's out-of-this-world amazing! What is it about the studio that might lead IPQ to pick this one over the live? Is the sound perhaps better? The sound however on the live is quite good so I'm hard-pressed to see this as a factor.
Listening to Fiorentino live in the Fantasy I'm not sure where he could actually improve on himself. His sound is big yet intimate, he's nimble, songful, deep, angular - in short, all-around incredible. Does he ACTUALLY improve on himself in the studio?
Quote from: Drasko on September 18, 2010, 01:15:05 PM
Yes, Arlecchino or Japanese Triton. Both oop.
(http://www.prox.jpn.org/~piano/feinberg/pianist/feinberg11.jpg)
I have that Arlecchino CD. I should spin it again soon.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 17, 2010, 12:30:47 AM
I'm keen to hear Edwin Fischer's Schumann Fantasie, but as far as I can see it's completely unavailable except through a highly priced big Schumann box from andante.
I have that Fischer Fantasy. That Andante box as a whole is marvelously produced and is a giant of a one-stop. Hard to believe it's OOP...
Sadly, as posted earlier, that Fischer Fantasy isn't really all that distinguished. It's exceptionally well
though-out, and Fischer's poetry shines brightly throughout, but evidently his chops had a prior engagement that day and his all-too-many missed notes make it hard to concentrate on the music.
Andante isn't shy about owning up to Fischer's technical shortcomings (it's spelled out in the booklet) but chose to include the performance anyway on the merits of the final movement. The finale is good, yes, but really can't hold a candle to others in this movement, notably Fiorentino live, Richter, and Argerich (heck, even Andsnes).
If you're up for a suggestion in the Fantasy I'd make it priority #1 to locate and purchase that live Fiorentino. It's truly mesmerizing. :)
(Again, thanks to Dave for the template:)
Op. 02: Papillons - Richter
Op. 06: Davidsbundlertanze - Gieseking ('47)
Op. 07: Toccata - Katchen, Richter ('59, & '86), Freddy Kempf
Op. 09: Carnaval - Michelangeli (BBC '57, live '73), Cherkassky (live '70), Solomon, F. Kempf
Op. 11: Piano Sonata, No.1 - Andsnes
Op. 12: Fantasiestucke - Richter, Argerich
Op. 13: Etudes symphoniques - Cziffra, Richter, Pogorelich, Cherkassky (live '91)
Op. 15: Kinderszenen - Argerich, Moravec
Op. 16: Kreisleriana - Argerich, Vogt, Pamela Ross (Connoisseur Society)
Op. 17: Fantasie - Fiorentino (live '93), Argerich, Katchen, Richter, Andsnes, E. Fischer
Op. 18: Arabeske - Katchen, F. Kempf
Op. 20: Humoreske - F. Kempf
Op. 22: Piano Sonata, No.2 - Richter
Op. 23: Nachtstücke - Richter
Op. 26: Faschingsschwank aus Wien - Michelangeli (BBC '57, live '68), Pamela Ross, Richter
Op. 72: Fugues - Richter
Op. 82: Waldszenen - Richter
Op. 99: Bunte Blätter - Richter, Vogt
Notable pianists not mentioned can be found in a couple of very worthwhile one-stopper sets: first, that Andante box (w/ Cortot, Rachmaninoff, Godowsky, Nat, Arrau, Gieseking, Horowitz, Haskil, E. Fischer, and Tagliaferro), and second, a now OOP EMI two-fer by Egorov (though no doubt his Schumann is included in EMI's new Egorov box).
If I had to single out one sleeper performance from the list above I'd give the nod to Cziffra's Symphonic Etudes. Riveting...
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on September 18, 2010, 08:29:35 PM
Holden,
Do you have both the live Fiorentino and studio in Op.17? I have the live and agree it's out-of-this-world amazing! What is it about the studio that might lead IPQ to pick this one over the live? Is the sound perhaps better? The sound however on the live is quite good so I'm hard-pressed to see this as a factor.
Listening to Fiorentino live in the Fantasy I'm not sure where he could actually improve on himself. His sound is big yet intimate, he's nimble, songful, deep, angular - in short, all-around incredible. Does he ACTUALLY improve on himself in the studio?
Yes I have both and listened to them yesterday to compare them after posting to this thread..
Studio - 1996 (IPQs favourite). This is exceptionally well played and is blemish free. The Langsam is absolutely beautiful and I can't think of anybody who plays it like SF. The recorded sound is superb and the brings out the gorgeous sound of the instrument that Fiorentino uses.
Live 1993 - this is not blemish free and there is the odd finger slip but nothing that 'jars' the ears. The sound quality is slightly recessed (but still very acceptable). The performance is just out of this world. You listen to the 1996 recording and hear the first movement and you think "wow"! You then listen to the live version and the former now sounds perfunctory in comparison. All three movements are an improvement on 1996 and that is really hard to achieve. All I can think is that the live venue brought out that little bit extra from Sergio.
So why did IPQ not rate it in their survey? I suspect that they probably hadn't heard it. It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually read that IPQ review
Quote from: Holden on September 19, 2010, 12:13:58 AM
So why did IPQ not rate it in their survey? I suspect that they probably hadn't heard it. It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually read that IPQ review
I have read it, and I cannot remember that they even mentioned the live recording. I guess they were not aware of it. Perhaps I can dig up that issue, I might still have it somewhere, but finding it is easier said than done...
Quote from: Drasko on September 18, 2010, 12:34:19 AM
Op. 15: Kinderszenen - Moiseiwitsch
Are you referring to the Naxos?
Quote
Op. 16: Kreisleriana - Brand,
Studio or live?
Moiseiwitsch Naxos 1930, Brand live 1983 on Palexa.
I played a handful of Op 17s today focussing on II and III.
Sokolov's recording is just really revealing – for me it is one of those performances which completely change your view of a piece. In II, he holds back the tempos, with the result that it's like a real struggle, not just a triumphant swagger from Florestan. II is battle, which Florestan resoundingly wins. In fact, there's one point, just before the Etwas bewegter where there seems to be a tac-à-tac between Eusebius and Florestan – every time Florestan says something, Eusebius (unsuccessfully) tries to respond. No one else I know comes close to paying that passage like that: no one finds so such music in it. The Etwas bewegter has never been a more still and peaceful eye of the storm.
And III is very idiosyncratic. Most striking are the forte passages, which sound more like acts of defiance on the part of Eusebius, with accented bass notes sounding like a passing bell, mourning for his loss. For the first time, thanks to Sokolov, I saw why III ends so positively.
Anyway, I may be over-imaginative. But this is a recording everyone who likes music should know, I think– even if you end up rejecting it. PM me if you want a link.
Quote from: Holden on September 19, 2010, 12:13:58 AM
Yes I have both and listened to them yesterday to compare them after posting to this thread..
Studio - 1996 (IPQs favourite). This is exceptionally well played and is blemish free. The Langsam is absolutely beautiful and I can't think of anybody who plays it like SF. The recorded sound is superb and the brings out the gorgeous sound of the instrument that Fiorentino uses.
Live 1993 - this is not blemish free and there is the odd finger slip but nothing that 'jars' the ears. The sound quality is slightly recessed (but still very acceptable). The performance is just out of this world. You listen to the 1996 recording and hear the first movement and you think "wow"! You then listen to the live version and the former now sounds perfunctory in comparison. All three movements are an improvement on 1996 and that is really hard to achieve. All I can think is that the live venue brought out that little bit extra from Sergio.
So why did IPQ not rate it in their survey? I suspect that they probably hadn't heard it. It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually read that IPQ review
Thanks, Holden.
Having trawled my old mags it turns out I actually have that old issue of IPQ (summer 2000) but unfortunately (after rereading) there's nothing discernible as to why the studio was chosen. In fact, there's little at all in reference to the live version with only a quick parenthetical blurb to give any indication the author's even heard it (it's clear he has, though).
So no real help from the author, although he makes no bones about being totally infatuated with the SOUND on the studio version. Which says zero since some of his other picks are suspect sonically.
For the Op. 17, there are also a couple of excellent recordings by Gieseking. And Pollini ain't bad either. I think, though, that the Fiorentino and Moiseiwitsch remain my favorite from all I've heard, with Gieseking, Richter, Sofronitsky, and Egorov close behind.
Some of you may be curious what our younger pianists have been doing as of late (though I think it's already been posted): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvZ1l2CfTY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvZ1l2CfTY&feature=related)
Quote from: RexRichter on September 20, 2010, 06:16:48 PM
Some of you may be curious what our younger pianists have been doing as of late (though I think it's already been posted): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvZ1l2CfTY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvZ1l2CfTY&feature=related)
Wow, I am listening to that one now and I am very impressed. Thanks for the link.
Quote from: George on September 20, 2010, 06:29:36 PM
Wow, I am listening to that one now and I am very impressed. Thanks for the link.
I posted the entire Buniatishvili Op 17 (in convenient sequence) here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16216.0.html
Quote from: Herman on September 21, 2010, 05:18:35 AM
I posted the entire Buniatishvili Op 17 (in convenient sequence) here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16216.0.html
Thanks. I hope that she records it. The youtube sound is atrocious.
This one is up on my radar. Angela Hewitt Plays Schumann. To be released in November.
(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571177809.png)
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67780
Quote from: George on September 21, 2010, 06:23:51 AM
Thanks. I hope that she records it. The youtube sound is atrocious.
If she records it, it won't be as good as this.
I have enjoyed the YT for a long time.
I don't get this hang-up about "sound".
Pollini has always been recorded in an "atrocious" way by DG, and yet people think he sounds great.
It's all in the ear of the beholder.
Quote from: Herman on September 21, 2010, 10:53:27 AM
I don't get this hang-up about "sound".
It is the medium by which we experience music.
I honestly don't get how you can not be turned off by the sound on that youtube. It's great that you don't, though. I sure wish it didn't bother me.
Without making any specific recommendations, the following works ought also to be in your collection:
Op. 14 Sonata No.2 in F minor (Op. 22 is No.3)
Op. 21 Noveletten
Quote from: Mandryka on September 20, 2010, 11:18:01 PM
Richter for me is a bit too smooth in II (both EMI and Prague) -- he makes it all sound a bit too easy. I want to hear a struggle.
Mandryka
I appreciated your vivid evocation of the struggle between Eusebius and Florestan. And I understand Richter probably takes a more reflexive and mysterious view of this piece than others. Probably there can be some more strongly expressive Florestans. But when Richter assumes Eusebius "the poet speaks" as profoundly as ever. And in some versions (from at least 7 commercially available) Richter is also an unexpectedly strong (almost violent) Florestan – just relisten the fiery contrast between
Durchaus energisch and the entering
Langsam getragen in Budapest 1980 (Doremi DRH-7786).
(http://www.ne.jp/asahi/ponpoko/tanuki/richter_DHR_7786.JPG)
Quote from: George on September 21, 2010, 10:56:12 AM
It is the medium by which we experience music.
I honestly don't get how you can not be turned off by the sound on that youtube. It's great that you don't, though. I sure wish it didn't bother me.
I guess it depends on how great the musicianship is, and in the case of this once-in-a-lifetime performance of Buniatishvili I can handle the limitations of the sound, especially as there is the visual component (although it gets out of sync on my PC).
Quote from: Ten thumbs on September 21, 2010, 10:58:42 AM
Without making any specific recommendations, the following works ought also to be in your collection:
Op. 14 Sonata No.2 in F minor (Op. 22 is No.3)
Op. 21 Noveletten
The F sharp minor sonata (nr 1) is opus 11 (and it's F
sharp minor).
The G minor sonata, opus 22, is nr 2.
Why change nrs and keys, just to make it more complicated?
Quote from: Mandryka on September 17, 2010, 11:43:27 PM
There are lots of names I haven't heard in Schumann : Schliessmann, Karnavichius, Okashiro (good Sdcriabin I think) , Varjon. It would be nice if you could sell them a bit -- you know, their style, idiosyncrasies . . .
Jurgis Karnavichius - His Kreisleriana is on the High Definitions Classics label. Totally obscure, so I wasn't expecting much. I suppose his performance could be considered mainstream - nothing odd or unusual about it. However, I feel he nails each movement and understands Schumann's mindset perfectly.
Burkard Schliessmann - Sort of a combination of Gieseking, Cortot and Moiseiwitch, but in state-of-the-art sound. He fully captures all the tension that's the result of the myriad of dysfunctional personalities involved in Kreisleriana. I think the coupling is the Symphonic Etudes, also superb. If I had to live with only one Schumann piano recording, this is it.
Okashiro - Her Schumann Kreisleriana is much better than her Scriabin. Beautiful and idiomatic playing in great sound.
Varjon - I've only heard his Bunte-Blatter. Don't remember much about it except that it was better than most of the competition (and there isn't a great deal of that compared to Schumann's best known works). He's not as good as Richter.
As an aside, I forgot to mention that Schliessmann has recorded a highly individualized account of the Goldberg Variations. I've yet to get a good handle on it.
Quote from: Bulldog on September 21, 2010, 03:32:48 PM
Burkard Schliessmann - Sort of a combination of Gieseking, Cortot and Moiseiwitch, but in state-of-the-art sound. He fully captures all the tension that's the result of the myriad of dysfunctional personalities involved in Kreisleriana. I think the coupling is the Symphonic Etudes, also superb. If I had to live with only one Schumann piano recording, this is it.
That's quite a review! Thanks.
Quote from: ccar on September 21, 2010, 12:16:33 PM
Mandryka
I appreciated your vivid evocation of the struggle between Eusebius and Florestan. And I understand Richter probably takes a more reflexive and mysterious view of this piece than others. Probably there can be some more strongly expressive Florestans. But when Richter assumes Eusebius "the poet speaks" as profoundly as ever. And in some versions (from at least 7 commercially available) Richter is also an unexpectedly strong (almost violent) Florestan – just relisten the fiery contrast between Durchaus energisch and the entering Langsam getragen in Budapest 1980 (Doremi DRH-7786).
(http://www.ne.jp/asahi/ponpoko/tanuki/richter_DHR_7786.JPG)
Right. I'll try and hear a copy of that one. I love Nina Dorliac with her squillo. I think her Ich Grolle Nicht is, basically, a masterpiece of idiosyncracy.
But I might have to buy it -- how is the sound quality?
Some of those Richter recordings on Doremi are really tremendous. Apart from his Debussy Etudes (poor sound) , his Mozart Concertos with Barshai (good enough sound) , there's also a Schumann record (Vol 13) which has a very good Marchenbilder with Bashmet (good sound), the best Op.10 Etudes that I have ever heard (good sound) , and some nice Op 73 Fantasiestüke with Pierre Fournier (not so good sound)
Quote from: Herman on September 21, 2010, 12:38:49 PM
The F sharp minor sonata (nr 1) is opus 11 (and it's F sharp minor).
The G minor sonata, opus 22, is nr 2.
Why change nrs and keys, just to make it more complicated?
???
The F minor sonata, opus 14, surely must be nr 2. This is an entirely different work from opus 11 and yes, I do have scores of all three sonatas
Quote from: Ten thumbs on September 22, 2010, 10:16:12 AM
???
The F minor sonata, opus 14, surely must be nr 2. This is an entirely different work from opus 11 and yes, I do have scores of all three sonatas
As I understand op.14 was never published as 2nd Sonata. Originally in five movements, Schumann initially dropped both scherzos and published three movement piece under title Concert sans orchestre op.14. Much later he revised the variations, added one of the scherzos and published it as 3rd Sonata but kept original opus number.
Quote from: Drasko on September 22, 2010, 10:38:28 AM
As I understand op.14 was never published as 2nd Sonata. Originally in five movements, Schumann initially dropped both scherzos and published three movement piece under title Concert sans orchestre op.14. Much later he revised the variations, added one of the scherzos and published it as 3rd Sonata but kept original opus number.
Op.22 was published as sonata No.2. Op.14 was composed as a four movement work that was a sonata in all but name and, as you correctly point out it was so published later. The alternative scherzo was also composed at a later date. So technically it is Sonata No.3 and I stand corrected although chronologically it is the second. Anyway, my point was that it is worthy of a place in anyone's collection.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 21, 2010, 11:42:15 AM
What? All of them?
Yes - as was Schumann's standard practice, the Novelletten constitute a cycle. Therefore your ideal recording should include them all in sequence.
Piggybacking on my post on the Brahms piano thread, another disc by the fine Dutch pianist, Ivo Janssen, deserves mention. In fact, it's some of the finest Schumann I've heard on disc.
More excellence from Connoisseur Society. Raim's Schumann recital set is nothing short of amazing:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517V8I5KbzL._SS400_.jpg)
Quote from: Bulldog on September 18, 2010, 09:16:03 AM
Sorry - it's the Moiseiwitsch cd.[Kreisleriana]
DG will release a transfer of the LP next month in a big box called The Liszt Heritage.
I can't get into your beloved Schliessmann at all -- it's just the way it is I suppose. I enjoyed to Sofronitsky recently (1952) and Afanassiev. The latter has a hard ugly piano tone but the interpretation is so original and successful that comments about tone seem superficial.
Here's Pletnev with it in London a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/v/HHdxeJ8s2fA
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on December 06, 2010, 08:26:34 PM
More excellence from Connoisseur Society. Raim's Schumann recital set is nothing short of amazing:
Interesting -- can you upload it? It's hrd to find and I've never heard of her.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2011, 12:17:48 AM
Interesting -- can you upload it? It's hrd to find and I've never heard of her.
Here's her Amazon page with clips:
[asin]B0011NVB9E[/asin]
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2011, 12:17:48 AM
I can't get into your beloved Schliessmann at all -- it's just the way it is I suppose.
Sorry to hear that. :(
Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2011, 12:17:48 AM
DG will release a transfer of the LP next month in a big box called The Liszt Heritage.
That looks to be a fine set!
Recently I learned the Schumann Fantasie op17 and been slightly obsessed with it as you can imagine...
I have the Richter and the Bolet recordings... Please recommend me others thank you
Thanks Toucan. I am not familiar at all with Horowitz's recordings so will definitely check it out.
I've also just downloaded Pletnev's as I quite like his idiosyncratic performance on YouTube.
Quote from: Verena on September 17, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
Some beautiful Schumann comes from Fabienne Jacquinot. I bought her two CDs having read very strong recommendations of her recordings on a different forum:
http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Symphonic-Etudes-Childhood-Papillons/dp/B001NQEZ8I/ref=sr_1_11?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1284776860&sr=8-11
There is another one where she plays the Carnaval and Davidsbundlertanze. These are among my favorite Schumann CDs.
I have both of her Schumann CDs, I'd attach a jpg, but somehow I seem unable to do so.
This is true. I've only just discovered her Davidsbündlertänze, because I found it on spotify. As far as I can see the other, with the Symphonic Etudes, isn't there yet.
By the way, there's a very nice record of Symphonic Etudes from Virssaldze, from a concert in Moscow in 2011 I think. It's downloadable from the russian site intoclassics.
Quote from: Herman on September 17, 2010, 09:33:51 PM
If you like the music I think you'd do yourself a real favor by going back in time a little and seek out recordings by Sv Richter, Arrau (his early Carnaval), Horowitz (Kinderszenen), Rubinstein (Fantasiestucke, Carnaval) and Michelangeli. Oh, and Papillons by Sofronitsky and Yves Nat.
Since Rubinstein recorded Fantasiestucke and Carnaval at least a few times, which recordings do folks prefer?
I highly recommend the recent Schumann recital by Imogen Cooper on Chandos (Fantasiestucke and Kriesleriana), the first volume of the complete solo piano music of Schumann.
Quote from: George on March 26, 2013, 04:07:40 AM
Since Rubinstein recorded Fantasiestucke and Carnaval at least a few times, which recordings do folks prefer?
My favorite Fantasiestucke Op 12 recording of all time is this Rubinstein. It also, by chance, contains Carnaval.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31OK0SXuouL.jpg)
It was remastered here but whether the sound is any better I don't know
[asin]B002IUBH9S[/asin]
I have the remastered CD. It sounds good.
Talking of op 12, one really very special one is here:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_250/MI0001/115/MI0001115468.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Looking for some recommendations on the great piano work, Carnaval, Op. 9
I have the Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli 1975 recording, which is great. This piece is so unique and could see a variety of approaches in playing this work.
What are some other recommended great recordings GMGers love?
Cortot's is the one I most enjoy, Ray.
Quote from: George on November 09, 2013, 04:58:35 PM
Cortot's is the one I most enjoy, Ray.
Excellent, thanks for the recommendation, George! :) I knew you would chime in within 5 minutes of my post. :D
8)
Since folks were talking previously about the Fantasiestucke, I'll chime in and say that I recently back-to-back compared Rubinstein (stereo) and Perahia, and my only conclusion was that the music was beyond fantastic and both performances left me feeling transported. 0:)
So far my favorite works are the Fantasie Op 17, Waldszenen, and Fantasiestucke. Favorite performances? Fantasie (Richter, Wurtz, Andsnes), Waldszenen (Richter), Fantasiestucke (Rubinstein, Perahia), Kreisleriana (Schuch). Would absolutely love recommendations for more.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 09, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Looking for some recommendations on the great piano work, Carnaval, Op. 9
I have the Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli 1975 recording, which is great. This piece is so unique and could see a variety of approaches in playing this work.
What are some other recommended great recordings GMGers love?
I have Michelangeli's '75, too. I agree with you, it's fabulous. (I also have his '73 but it's nowhere near as good).
Other faves are Godowsky and Rachmaninoff, both from 1929 (in that Andante box). Neither are as serious as Michelangeli but they're just as perceptive to the mood swings in the music. It's really neck-and-neck though with Michelangeli. Of course 1929 means historic sound but the pianos are reproduced very nicely.
For stark contrast though to Michelangeli I really enjoy Egorov. He's the most poetic of all and his sense of a running narrative - despite the disparate nature of the work - is very strong. He's also one one of the best at whipping up a genuine carnival atmosphere. The recorded sound is better than any of the above, too.
I haven't heard Cortot's version but he's very reliable in Schumann. Very poetic despite the occasional flubbed note.
Have no living pianists done anything interesting with Carnival?
Quote from: Brian on November 09, 2013, 07:28:11 PM
Since folks were talking previously about the Fantasiestucke, I'll chime in and say that I recently back-to-back compared Rubinstein (stereo) and Perahia, and my only conclusion was that the music was beyond fantastic and both performances left me feeling transported. 0:)
So far my favorite works are the Fantasie Op 17, Waldszenen, and Fantasiestucke. Favorite performances? Fantasie (Richter, Wurtz, Andsnes), Waldszenen (Richter), Fantasiestucke (Rubinstein, Perahia), Kreisleriana (Schuch). Would absolutely love recommendations for more.
I'd say next try to acquaint yourself with the Symphonic Etudes. Top-o-the-heap Schumann. The extroverted nature of the piece is unlike anything else in Schumann's output. But it's no mere showpiece. As with all Schumann's piano music it's the poetry that'll grip you.
I've grown to enjoy Pletnev's iconoclastic way with this piece. And his pianistic color is marvelous. Next would definitely be Richter, though. The piece really breathes under his touch.
[asin]B0001BUC0Q[/asin]
Quote from: Mandryka on November 09, 2013, 09:52:35 PM
Have no living pianists done anything interesting with Carnival?
I have Gavrilov's from 1989 (EMI). It has its stirring moments but it's missing the narrative of the others I've heard. I do like it, though. If it's possible give it a sampling.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 09, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
I have Gavrilov's from 1989 (EMI). It has its stirring moments but it's missing the narrative of the others I've heard. I do like it, though. If it's possible give it a sampling.
I've never explored Carnival records much, it's somehow never grabbed me as much as Davidsbündlertänze or even the etudes.
Sofronitsky played it well - another dead pianist of course.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 09, 2013, 10:03:10 PM
I've never explored Carnival records much, it's somehow never grabbed me as much as Davidsbündlertänze or even the etudes.
I'd say take the piece on its own terms. It doesn't spiral in and out of sanity like some of the other pieces but the fantasy is of a high order. Perhaps try it with some popcorn. ;D
My introduction to Carnaval was Solomon and I still rate it highly. I have to agree that the Egorov is also an excellent recording.
Many thanks for the recommendations. Keep them coming! :)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 09, 2013, 09:55:44 PM
I'd say next try to acquaint yourself with the Symphonic Etudes. Top-o-the-heap Schumann. The extroverted nature of the piece is unlike anything else in Schumann's output. But it's no mere showpiece. As with all Schumann's piano music it's the poetry that'll grip you.
I've grown to enjoy Pletnev's iconoclastic way with this piece. And his pianistic color is marvelous. Next would definitely be Richter, though. The piece really breathes under his touch.
Thanks for this! I've only listened to the Symphonic Etudes three or four times, and haven't really "gotten" them yet. They're more of a challenge to me, anyway, than some of the other works have been.
Does anyone have opinions on Eric Le Sage? I remember sampling a few of his recordings and finding them ... antsy. If that makes sense.
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2013, 06:36:43 AM
Thanks for this! I've only listened to the Symphonic Etudes three or four times, and haven't really "gotten" them yet. They're more of a challenge to me, anyway, than some of the other works have been.
Does anyone have opinions on Eric Le Sage? I remember sampling a few of his recordings and finding them ... antsy. If that makes sense.
You've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that. The key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze. But really you should hear the sonatas too, op 11 especially.
Le Sage I like very much -- try his Fantasiestuke op 12 to hear him at his best I would say.
Re Carnival, which I've decided I just don't really like, I found this live performance from Arrau on youtube (there are 4 parts there. Is it available as a recording?()
http://www.youtube.com/v/dC0JAWQsZwM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 09, 2013, 09:55:44 PM
I'd say next try to acquaint yourself with the Symphonic Etudes. Top-o-the-heap Schumann. The extroverted nature of the piece is unlike anything else in Schumann's output. But it's no mere showpiece. As with all Schumann's piano music it's the poetry that'll grip you.
I've grown to enjoy Pletnev's iconoclastic way with this piece. And his pianistic color is marvelous. Next would definitely be Richter, though. The piece really breathes under his touch.
[asin]B0001BUC0Q[/asin]
I like Pletnev and Richter and Hess too. My top choices though would probably be none of them -- I would chose Nathan Brand, and maybe Pollini (1976), Cortot (1955), Ernst Levy, Sofronitsky, Arrau live.
I wonder what the Schumannists here think of this Symphonic Etudes from Steven De Groote. Too beautiful?
http://www.youtube.com/v/vAL8pqmNSYw
Just you bringing it up made me remember that I wanted to hear Schliessmann's recording again.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
You've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that. The key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze. But really you should hear the sonatas too, op 11 especially.
Thanks for the comment on Le Sage. I listened to the DBT for the first time a few days ago and find it interesting that you call it a key big work - after all, it's a book of little bitty works, no? (At any rate, loved 'em. Pollini. And Pollini's Etudes [DG '83] are queued up for this afternoon.)
I'm glad Mandryka mentioned Natan Brand. His Schumann is really something special. The live and the studio stuff.
I also think Richter, Arrau, Rubinstein and Cortot each have a special way with Schumann's music.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
Ypu've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that.
Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary.
QuoteThe key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze.
I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. Not that having your personal preferences is in any way invalidated by "accepted wisdom" but putting forward DBT as a "go to" work above Carnival and the etudes is like saying Schubert's first symphony is the "go to" symphony over his ninth. Obviously good listening isn't in short supply in either work but structurally and thematically the maturity of the ninth is impossible to beat.
DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2013, 08:10:12 AM
Thanks for the comment on Le Sage. I listened to the DBT for the first time a few days ago and find it interesting that you call it a key big work - after all, it's a book of little bitty works, no? (At any rate, loved 'em. Pollini. And Pollini's Etudes [DG '83] are queued up for this afternoon.)
No DBT's not like orgelbüchlein or something. It's a suite of dances. There's a masterplan, a narrative, incolving a contest. The wikipedia article on it isn't bad.
Pollini's DG etudes aren't bad. If you want me to let you have the live one from 1976, which I prefer, let me know.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary.
I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. Not that having your personal preferences is in any way invalidated by "accepted wisdom" but putting forward DBT as a "go to" work above Carnival and the etudes is like saying Schubert's first symphony is the "go to" symphony over his ninth. Obviously good listening isn't in short supply in either work but structurally and thematically the maturity of the ninth is impossible to beat.
DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.
Really? Whose wisdom? I suspect you need to think harder about DBT.
Rosen would agree with me, for what it's worth.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. [...]
DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.
I'm a DBT fan too. Have been so for decades, and I think it's as cohesive as romantic era music gets.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:05:42 AM
I like Pletnev and Richter and Hess too. My top choices though would probably be none of them -- I would chose Nathan Brand, and maybe Pollini (1976), Cortot (1955), Ernst Levy, Sofronitsky, Arrau live.
Again, eccentric. Cortot '55?? Come now, not even the most ardent Cortot fan will elevate anything from that late in his career as first choice. His technique had simply withered by then.
I only know Levy's Beethoven but it's
very far afield from the mainstream. Literally its over-the-top emotionalism is its only defining feature. Beethoven for those who've become bored with Beethoven. If his Schumann is in a similar vein then it's not a top choice.
I wouldn't be surprised by the Arrau, however, but he's never been a fave of mine in Schumann.
QuoteI wonder what the Schumannists here think of this Symphonic Etudes from Steven De Groote. Too beautiful?
http://www.youtube.com/v/vAL8pqmNSYw
Sounds good to me. :)
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:30:17 AM
Really? Whose wisdom? I suspect you need to think harder about DBT.
Rosen would agree with me, for what it's worth.
I've been thinking about DBT for 25 years now. 0:)
Quote from: Herman on November 10, 2013, 08:39:07 AM
I'm a DBT fan too. Have been so for decades, and I think it's as cohesive as romantic era music gets.
Well, I didn't say I didn't like the DBT. It is indeed a nice piece. I just wouldn't classify it as a "first choice" Schumann piece. That should go to the Fantasie, Kreisleriana, the etudes...even some of the song cycles.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:47:23 AM
Well, I didn't say I didn't like the DBT. It is indeed a nice piece. I just wouldn't classify it as a "first choice" Schumann piece. That should go to the Fantasie, Kreisleriana, the etudes...even some of the song cycles.
The question though isn't about whether or not you like it, it's about coherence. I thought your point was that it's a second rate work for some reason.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:41:24 AM
Again, eccentric. Cortot '55?? Come now, not even the most ardent Cortot fan will elevate anything from that late in his career as first choice. His technique had simply withered by then.
I only know Levy's Beethoven but it's very far afield from the mainstream. Literally its over-the-top emotionalism is its only defining feature. Beethoven for those who've become bored with Beethoven. If his Schumann is in a similar vein then it's not a top choice.
I wouldn't be surprised by the Arrau, however, but he's never been a fave of mine in Schumann.
Sounds good to me. :)
Let me know if you want me to let you have the Levy Etudes. Maybe we could have a better discussion when you're familiar with it.
Have you heard that 1955 recording from Cortot? I don't have a problem with his technique. What technical issues are you hearing which get so much in the way - I think it's a very psychological performance, deep.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:49:36 AM
The question though isn't about whether or not you like it, it's about coherence.
The main thrust of my objection to your comment was elevating the DBT over such renowned works as the etudes and Carnival.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:54:31 AM
The main thrust of my objection to your comment was elevating the DBT over such renowned works as the etudes and Carnival.
Because there's some coherence problem with DBT? Or what?
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary.
Indeed. If one did not connect with the Etudes right off, then I'd guess the pianist would be to blame.
Quote from: George on November 10, 2013, 08:58:58 AM
Indeed. If one did not connect with the Etudes right off, then I'd guess the pianist would be to blame.
There was no subtext like that intended. Except that I find the last etude sometimes hard to bear. I always leave it out.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:53:15 AM
Let me know if you want me to let you have the Levy Etudes. Maybe we could have a better discussion when you're familiar with it.
Levy is a pianist for whom the score itself holds little meaning, at least in his Beethoven. The performance is all about the pianist. Which is fine if you enjoy that type of performance. I don't. A leopard can't change its spots. So as far as his Schumann, no thanks.
QuoteHave you heard that 1955 recording?
All post-1950 Cortot I've heard validates the critical consensus. He's gassed by then. So I don't venture there anymore.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
Levy is a pianist for whom the score itself holds little meaning, at least in his Beethoven. The performance is all about the pianist. Which is fine if you enjoy that type of performance. I don't. A leopard can't change its spots. So as far as his Schumann, no thanks.
All post-1950 Cortot I've heard validates the critical consensus. He's gassed by then. So I don't venture there anymore.
I gather then that you have heard neither the Cortot nor the Levy. If so, let's not discuss them.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:55:31 AM
Because there's some coherence problem with DBT? Or what?
Thematically, structurally, whatever, the DBT isn't a top tier Schumann work. I and others ENJOY the piece of course but beyond that...
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 09:06:33 AM
I gather then that you have heard neither the Cortot nor the Levy. If so, let's not discuss them.
Please spare me the platitudes, Mandryka. I've moved beyond the need reopen bad memories of certain pianists at this point in my life.
If you feel justified in thrusting the eccentric on everyone then go ahead. But don't be surprised if you find opposition every once in a while.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
There was no subtext like that intended. Except that I find the last etude sometimes hard to bear. I always leave it out.
Not sure how you know what Brian's subtext is here. Did he PM you?
This conversation thread, if you trace it, goes back to
Brian stating that he didn't "get" the Etudes. My comment refers back to Brian's.
Quote from: George on November 10, 2013, 09:19:14 AM
Not sure how you know what Brian's subtext is here. Did he PM you?
This conversation thread, if you trace it, goes back to Brian stating that he didn't "get" the Etudes. My comment refers back to Brian's.
Oh, I thought the subtext was being read into my comment about the way the text is problematic. My mistake.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 09:11:36 AM
Please spare me the platitudes, Mandryka. I've moved beyond the need reopen bad memories of certain pianists at this point in my life.
If you feel justified in thrusting the eccentric on everyone then go ahead. But don't be surprised if you find opposition every once in a while.
When you say eccentric, who defines the centre and how? Like you made some comment about my claim about DBT being eccentic, I responded that Charles Rosen would agree (I think.) So who were you thinking of?
Quote from: Herman on November 10, 2013, 08:39:07 AM
I'm a DBT fan too. Have been so for decades, and I think it's as cohesive as romantic era music gets.
Same here - it's my favorite major Schumann solo work. That said, I wouldn't say it's better or worse than Schumann's other wonderful piano works.
I sure can't see anything eccentric about placing DBT among the top Schumann compositions. Along with Carnaval, Sym. Etudes, Kreisleriana and Kinderszenen, it represents Schumann at the height of his creative powers.
Quote from: Sammy on November 10, 2013, 09:45:35 AM
Same here - it's my favorite major Schumann solo work. That said, I wouldn't say it's better or worse than Schumann's other wonderful piano works.
I sure can't see anything eccentric about placing DBT among the top Schumann compositions. Along with Carnaval, Sym. Etudes, Kreisleriana and Kinderszenen, it represents Schumann at the height of his creative powers.
Recommend me some Carnival recordings Sammy.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 09:37:00 AM
When you say eccentric, who defines the centre and how? Like you made some comment about my claim about DBT being eccentic, I responded that Charles Rosen would agree (I think.) So who were you thinking of?
Well, at this point Mandryka you've edited your previous posts so many times that what narrative was there has been totally obliterated. ;D So picking things up now won't get me very far.
Maybe later when there's more time to open this huge can of worms... :)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 09:48:08 AM
Well, at this point Mandryka you've edited your previous posts so many times that what narrative was there has been totally obliterated. ;D So picking things up now won't get me very far.
Maybe later when there's more time to open this huge can of worms... :)
I don't think I've edited much, I can't remember, I'm sure nothing substantial. A spelling mistake maybe or something. I think I may have deleted something somewhere which was too agressive for this sort of discussion, where you can't see body language. When I use an ipad I make loads of mistakes.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 09:46:17 AM
Recommend me some Carnival recordings Sammy.
For relatively modern recordings, the ones I've been enjoying the most lately come from Freire, Kubalek, Pescia and Aimard.
Quote from: Sammy on November 10, 2013, 10:12:43 AM
For relatively modern recordings, the ones I've been enjoying the most lately come from Freire, Kubalek, Pescia and Aimard.
Great. I've heard none of those. I like Kubalek's Brahms so I'm looking forward to trying that. Pescia is a complete new name to me.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 09, 2013, 09:52:35 PMHave no living pianists done anything interesting with Carnival?
Schuch and Collard come to mind.
Two CDs that are absolute must haves IMO.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TPCG2qFsL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
The Fantasie is excellent (though Fiorentino is better) and the other two are just amazing.
[asin]B0000026GD[/asin]
Possibly one of the best Schumann recitals I've ever heard. I bought this the day I learned of Horowitz's passing so maybe this has coloured my judgement. His way with the Kinderszenen is just out of this world because he makes it sound so simple and child like.
Quote from: Holden on November 10, 2013, 10:59:04 AM
Two CDs that are absolute must haves IMO.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TPCG2qFsL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
This is perhaps my favourite single solo piano music CD I have. Especially the Fantasy in C and Papillons performance.
Just compared the Richter Papillons to Zacharias. Much prefer Richter's approach.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 10, 2013, 11:01:55 AM
Actually, that disc was what convinced me that I hated Schumann piano music. Then I listened to Pollini and saw the light.
Wow, we are polar opposites on this one. ;D
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 10:02:14 AM
I don't think I've edited much, I can't remember, I'm sure nothing substantial. A spelling mistake maybe or something. I think I may have deleted something somewhere which was too agressive for this sort of discussion, where you can't see body language. When I use an ipad I make loads of mistakes.
Yes, agreed, it's sometimes difficult to convey true intent without the benefit of visuals. Anyway, interesting discussion and much to ponder. :)
Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:53:15 AM
Let me know if you want me to let you have the Levy Etudes. Maybe we could have a better discussion when you're familiar with it.
Well, okay, I got my Levy/etudes kick, Mandryka. :) It's on Youtube.
As charitable as I'd like to be I have to say this is the type of performance that makes me >:( >:(.
Levy is exactly as I remembered him. I hear this as nothing more than an exercise in self-indulgence. Intentional swelling, distortions of line, exaggerated accents, numerous hesitations, the works. Schumann is completely left at the starting gate. Eccentric doesn't do justice to this interpretation. Mugging is more like it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/wKuZ4jkW0sY
1) the first Schumann CD I ever got was Perahia playing the Davidsbundlertanze. The second was Horowitz playing Kreisleriana.
In fact, I never heard the Symphonic Etudes--never even heard of them--until well late in the game, when I got one of that EMI sets of assorted pianists playing assorted Schumann. So for me, it's a case of the Etudes being by far the less celebrated work.
2) regarding modern pianists playing Carnaval
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61eM5lwNwUL._SY300_.jpg)
That was his second Schumann CD; the first CD included the Etudes.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:33:55 PM
Well, okay, I got my Levy/etudes kick, Mandryka. :) It's on Youtube.
As charitable as I'd like to be I have to say this is the type of performance that makes me >:( >:(.
Levy is exactly as I remembered him. I hear this as nothing more than an exercise in self-indulgence. Intentional swelling, distortions of line, exaggerated accents, numerous hesitations, the works. Schumann is completely left at the starting gate. Eccentric doesn't do justice to this interpretation. Mugging is more like it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/wKuZ4jkW0sY
Do we know that an authentic performance of a Schumann piece wouldn't use all those expressive devices?
This comment from a review of Franz Vorraber's Schumann has always intrigued me
Quote from: Gary Higinson http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Nov03/Schumann7_Vorraber.htm. . . I [too] fell in love in my early teens with Schumann's piano music. I persuaded my own teacher that I should tackle 'Kinderscenen'. My piano teacher at this time c.1965 was over 70. He had been a student at the Royal Academy around 1910 and he told me that his teacher at the Academy had been a pupil of Clara Schumann in Germany. My teacher played therefore with certain characteristics inherited from her and her school. He assumed that Clara played Robert's music as he would have done. These characteristics included, often allowing the two hands not to play together, playing with often excessive rubato at the whim of the performer, repeating certain passages even if unmarked, bringing out inner parts even if not marked, treating the dynamics and articulation such as accents and staccatos only as possible guidelines and to arpeggiate chords or not arpeggiate chords depending on the performers preferred hand formations. My teacher himself played in this way but said that this "is not the way you should play Schumann nowadays". I was encouraged not to copy him but to play the composer's markings as precisely as possible and chastised if I failed to do so. It initially came as quite a shock to me to discover that Vorraber plays Schumann like my old teacher, the tempi and expressive qualities in whose performances now seem so muddled to me that aurally I often lose my way. . . Yet having said all of that I am not necessarily being negative. I genuinely feel that I am hearing this music as Schumann and his wife probably played it - a really authentic performance. . .
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
Levy is a pianist for whom the score itself holds little meaning, ....
Don't confuse the score with the music.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:33:55 PM
Well, okay, I got my Levy/etudes kick, Mandryka. :) It's on Youtube.
As charitable as I'd like to be I have to say this is the type of performance that makes me >:( >:(.
Levy is exactly as I remembered him. I hear this as nothing more than an exercise in self-indulgence. Intentional swelling, distortions of line, exaggerated accents, numerous hesitations, the works. Schumann is completely left at the starting gate. Eccentric doesn't do justice to this interpretation. Mugging is more like it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/wKuZ4jkW0sY
That certainly was a highly individualistic interpretation of the Sym. Etudes. Can't say I liked it much. However, such a strange reading probably needs a few listenings to get a good handle on its properties. Will I be making those additional hearings? I doubt it - life's too short. I'll just move forward with the likes of Gieseking, Moiseiwitch, etc. for the historical perspective.
I too listened to Levy's Etudes last night again, I don't think I'd heard them for about a year or more. I like what he does, more than Moiseiewitch certainly, and possibly more than Gieseking (who I can't remember at all) - with one exception. The final etude.
What I like about the Levy performance is the urgency of it. I listened, or rather started to listen, to Chitose Okashiro playing them after and thought, quite frankly, that they were much less fun.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 11, 2013, 01:11:55 PM
Do we know that an authentic performance of a Schumann piece wouldn't use all those expressive devices?
The easy answer to that is if there were
anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.
Levy can be "different" all he wants. That doesn't make him "authentic".
QuoteThis comment from a review of Franz Vorraber's Schumann has always intrigued me
Intriguing, yes. A crystal ball, no.
QuoteDon't confuse the score with the music.
Don't confuse charlatanism with the genuine article.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 11, 2013, 09:07:10 PM
The easy answer to that is if there were anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.
Levy can be "different" all he wants. That doesn't make him "authentic".
If I remember right (and it's entirely possible that I don't ) Harold Bauer is pretty expressive, in op 12. Cortot too in fact - there are some passages in his Kreisleriana which are extremely individual, I can't remember about Cortot's first record of the etudes.
I wonder what the earliest recording of the etudes is - was it Cortot? Or did Grainger record it?
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 11, 2013, 09:07:10 PM
The easy answer to that is if there were anything approaching a performance tradition embracing even a fraction of Levy's "devices" we'd have heard them long before he came along. Let's be real.
Don't confuse charlatanism with the genuine article.
Do you feel the same about Pletnev?
Quote from: Mandryka on November 11, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
Do you feel the same about Pletnev?
You'll have to clarify. I don't fully understand why you're asking.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 11, 2013, 09:06:03 PM
What I like about the Levy performance is the urgency of it. I listened, or rather started to listen, to Chitose Okashiro playing them after and thought, quite frankly, that they were much less fun.
You find fun in the Sym. Etudes? Anyways, Okashiro's is one of my favorite versions; it has everything I could want out of the work.
If you want urgency, check out Natan Brand playing in Amherst/1983 on the APR label. More than urgent, it's brutal.
Quote from: Sammy on November 11, 2013, 10:45:52 PM
You find fun in the Sym. Etudes? Anyways, Okashiro's is one of my favorite versions; it has everything I could want out of the work.
If you want urgency, check out Natan Brand playing in Amherst/1983 on the APR label. More than urgent, it's brutal.
My first impression is that she played the music as if they were a sequence of studies, studies in tone and weight. I never felt sweep, inevitability across the whole sequence. I don't have a priori any objection to the tempos, I just felt that in her hands, things were a bit too turgid for me (contrast Gilels, who also (from memory - so possibly wrong) choses her sorts of tempos, but Gilels is less heavy). I also felt that that at the emotional level things were a bit mundane compared with Cortot 1955 or Sofronitsky. And, as is often the case, I felt very conscious of her controling every little nuance. I don't get the impression of spontanious music making. What does she play - is it a Fazzioli?
I will give it more time given that you're so positive. These are only initial impressions, and I often end up loving your more challenging recommendations in the end ;)
I like Brand's performance a lot. What do you think of Vorraber's? And there's Schliessmann of course.
THis is a performance of the Etudes that I instantly liked on first hearing and still like. It's a little bit different (playing order of central etudes, tempo, etc) but it really seems to work. The copy I have was sent to me by someone whose opinion I really value and who knew I would like it, as he does himself.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41f%2BO9heNYL._SX300_.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 11, 2013, 10:13:06 PM
You'll have to clarify. I don't fully understand why you're asking.
My fault. I was in a hurry when I typed that this morning. You described Pletnev as iconoclastic, so I guess he's removed from any performance tradition. I was really wondering why (if?) you thought Levy s a charlatan and Pletnev isn't.
Quote from: Holden on November 12, 2013, 10:51:28 AM
THis is a performance of the Etudes that I instantly liked on first hearing and still like. It's a little bit different (playing order of central etudes, tempo, etc) but it really seems to work. The copy I have was sent to me by someone whose opinion I really value and who knew I would like it, as he does himself.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41f%2BO9heNYL._SX300_.jpg)
That's one of the few Barto Cds I enjoyed.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 12, 2013, 10:57:56 AM
My fault. I was in a hurry when I typed that this morning. You described Pletnev as iconoclastic, so I guess he's removed from any performance tradition. I was really wondering why (if?) you thought Levy s a charlatan and Pletnev isn't.
Oh, I see. Well to be perfectly honest my "iconoclastic" comment was meant as a qualifying statement, intended to alert interested parties to Pletnev's mannerisms. IOW, it's an interpretation
I enjoy but it's not without certain eccentricities I feel certain listeners might find off-putting (mainly owing to his use of ritardandos, which at first seem jarring but in toto seem completely natural).
That's why I objected to your Levy recommendation so much. Among pianophiles Levy isn't unknown but the uninitiated deserve to be forewarned. It's like recommending a late Celibidache performance - certainly caveats are justified as a matter of principle simply as a courtesy. I mean, not everybody knows about Celibidache...much less Levy!!
If such a principle isn't a priority for certain posters that's okay by me of course. But like I said, don't be surprised if someone comes along and attempts to infuse a bit of perspective on occasion. That's all. 0:)
All that said, the differences between Pletnev and Levy can be boiled down to simply this: I can
recognize the piece under Pletnev. Under Levy...man it's mash.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 12, 2013, 10:38:36 AM
I like Brand's performance a lot. What do you think of Vorraber's? And there's Schliessmann of course.
I did forget to mention Schliessmann - outstanding performance. As for Vorraber, I have a couple of his Schumann discs and don't think all that well of them.
I need a lot more solo piano Schumann recordings.
I currently have Andsnes's PS no. 1 & Fantaisie, Pollini's PS no. 1, Perahia's Papillons, and Barto's Geistervariationen.
Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).
A box set (or two) (the EMI 200th year box? Another EMI box, from 2007 (http://www.amazon.fr/Schumann-Oeuvres-pour-Piano-Coffret/dp/B000V1Z0GM/), Pollini? Endres? Le Sage would be complete, but I have read that the performances aren't anything to write home about), possibly combined with a single CD (or several - Schuch's Kreisleriana, Freire's recent disc, etc?) would be OK. Keeping the total price low would be preferable, though.
Quote from: North Star on November 13, 2013, 05:00:01 AM
Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).
My favorite one-stop Schumann set had always been the Egorov two-fer but lately it's gone OOP. It's all been absorbed into the Egorov complete box however if that kind of thing appeals.
[asin]B00004Z34M[/asin]
[asin]B00151HZ42[/asin]
Quote from: North Star on November 13, 2013, 05:00:01 AM
I need a lot more solo piano Schumann recordings.
I currently have Andsnes's PS no. 1 & Fantaisie, Pollini's PS no. 1, Perahia's Papillons, and Barto's Geistervariationen.
Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).
A box set (or two) (the EMI 200th year box? Another EMI box, from 2007 (http://www.amazon.fr/Schumann-Oeuvres-pour-Piano-Coffret/dp/B000V1Z0GM/), Pollini? Endres? Le Sage would be complete, but I have read that the performances aren't anything to write home about), possibly combined with a single CD (or several - Schuch's Kreisleriana, Freire's recent disc, etc?) would be OK. Keeping the total price low would be preferable, though.
Have you checked into this one? I found the performances in this box to range from solid to magnificent.
[asin]B004D3BPHW[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T-eg%2BSOJL._SY300_.jpg)
The
magnificent applies to Schmidt-Leonardy in particular. His contribution to that set is available as an individual item, and if you don't get the set, get that.
Amazon also lists complete sets from Demus and Ashkenazy; never heard them, although I'd go for the Demus first.
The EMI anniversary set, while far from complete, is a nice catch all; beyond that I'd say it's pick and choose from a variety of pianists for individual pieces.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 13, 2013, 06:38:12 AM
Have you checked into this one? I found the performances in this box to range from solid to magnificent.
The magnificent applies to Schmidt-Leonardy in particular. His contribution to that set is available as an individual item, and if you don't get the set, get that.
Although it's been rather a long time since I listened, Klara Wurtz's contributions also struck me as being very good. Jed Distler also likes them (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-8683/?search=1).
Quote from: Brian on November 13, 2013, 06:52:58 AM
Although it's been rather a long time since I listened, Klara Wurtz's contributions also struck me as being very good. Jed Distler also likes them (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-8683/?search=1).
For me, they were more to the solid end of the spectrum. Of course, much of her contribution to that box was with pieces that have been recorded by, it seems, almost every pianist who has ever had a microphone plunked down in front of them, and she was therefore competing with several of the greats names in piano playing.
One otherwise good pianist who I found to be somewhat weak in Schumann, btw, is Angela Hewitt.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 13, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
One otherwise good pianist who I found to be somewhat weak in Schumann, btw, is Angela Hewitt.
Probably right, but I rather enjoyed her DBT. I can't explain why except to say thay when I hear it I always think of those rock and roll dances where the man keeps all still and dignified and the woman twirls and pirouettes around him.
Quote from: North Star on November 13, 2013, 05:00:01 AM
I need a lot more solo piano Schumann recordings.
I currently have Andsnes's PS no. 1 & Fantaisie, Pollini's PS no. 1, Perahia's Papillons, and Barto's Geistervariationen.
Kinderszenen, Kreisleriana, Études symphoniques, and Carnaval are the ones I'm most interested in - although I'm interested in hearing at least most of his solo piano pieces. I don't care too much for very eccentric performances like the Levy Études, and I'd prefer modern sound (certainly later than 50s, preferably more recent).
A box set (or two) (the EMI 200th year box? Another EMI box, from 2007 (http://www.amazon.fr/Schumann-Oeuvres-pour-Piano-Coffret/dp/B000V1Z0GM/), Pollini? Endres? Le Sage would be complete, but I have read that the performances aren't anything to write home about), possibly combined with a single CD (or several - Schuch's Kreisleriana, Freire's recent disc, etc?) would be OK. Keeping the total price low would be preferable, though.
Just download the Le Sage. Having said that I think Egorov is not a bad either either. Another one to think about is Anda, there's this CD which collects Carnival and Kreisleriana and the Etudes.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/179/MI0001179662.jpg)
Thanks for the comments!
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 13, 2013, 06:33:46 AM
My favorite one-stop Schumann set had always been the Egorov two-fer but lately it's gone OOP. It's all been absorbed into the Egorov complete box however if that kind of thing appeals.
I certainly wouldn't mind having that set, for the Chopin, Schumann & Debussy.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 13, 2013, 06:38:12 AM
Have you checked into this one? I found the performances in this box to range from solid to magnificent.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T-eg%2BSOJL._SY300_.jpg)
The magnificent applies to Schmidt-Leonardy in particular. His contribution to that set is available as an individual item, and if you don't get the set, get that.
Amazon also lists complete sets from Demus and Ashkenazy; never heard them, although I'd go for the Demus first.
The EMI anniversary set, while far from complete, is a nice catch all; beyond that I'd say it's pick and choose from a variety of pianists for individual pieces.
I recall reading here at GMG that the Demus isn't too good.
Quote from: Brian on November 13, 2013, 06:52:58 AM
Although it's been rather a long time since I listened, Klara Wurtz's contributions also struck me as being very good. Jed Distler also likes them (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-8683/?search=1).
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 13, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
For me, they were more to the solid end of the spectrum. Of course, much of her contribution to that box was with pieces that have been recorded by, it seems, almost every pianist who has ever had a microphone plunked down in front of them, and she was therefore competing with several of the greats names in piano playing.
I hadn't looked too closely at this set, certainly an option!
Quote from: Mandryka on November 13, 2013, 07:21:08 AM
Just download the Le Sage. Having said that I think Egorov is not a bad either either. Another one to think about is Anda, there's this CD which collects Carnival and Kreisleriana and the Etudes.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/179/MI0001179662.jpg)
So you know the Le Sage set, Mandryka? I don't doubt that it's a solid set, but any further comments would be greatly appreciated.
(If I decide to get the Le Sage, I will certainly get the real box, none of that download stuff, especially since it's not even any cheaper)
For what it's worth, Anda is my go-to pianist for Schumann. The Carnaval/Kreisleriana/Etudes Symphoniques collections on Testament (or Archipel..) as well as on the Brilliant Classics 4CD box are great. There is a very nice Davidsbuendlertanze on AURA/Ermitage.
Quote from: North Star on November 13, 2013, 08:40:00 AM
So you know the Le Sage set, Mandryka? I don't doubt that it's a solid set, but any further comments would be greatly appreciated.
(If I decide to get the Le Sage, I will certainly get the real box, none of that download stuff, especially since it's not even any cheaper)
I think it's solid, that's all. I think he's better in the Florestan music. I enjoyed his first recordings for EMI most, especially the op 12. These were later incorprated into the Schumann project.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 13, 2013, 09:11:01 AM
I think it's solid, that's all. I think he's better in the Florestan music. I enjoyed his first recordings for EMI most, especially the op 12. These were later incorprated into the Schumann project.
OK, thanks.
Well, I just ordered the Le Sage box. :)
I can always get other recordings later ::)
Arrau plays op 11 live in 1969
http://www.youtube.com/v/XOiF0KTCI6Y
This is so different from any op 11 I've heard before that I just don't know what to make of it. I know I don't like it.
Arrau's Schumann was an acquired taste for me, but I really enjoy it now. In this repertoire he's in some respects the polar opposite of Pollini, whose Schumann I likewise wouldn't want to be without.
Rubinstein and Cziffra are other favorites. Hamelin's underrated here, too.
For a box set, though, Arrau's the way to go if you can find it IMO. Ashkenazy and Demus are fine and worth hearing, but if you can get past Arrau's slowness, there's much to admire in his thoughtful playing and gorgeous tone.
Quote from: aquariuswb on November 13, 2013, 04:33:13 PM
...but if you can get past Arrau's slowness, there's much to admire in his thoughtful playing and gorgeous tone.
The Raim set I mentioned a few pages back has something of that slowness but it only takes a couple minutes before aurally you've come to terms with her conception and the rest of each respective work literally glows.
She's aided by a huge technique and her dynamics are spread out like the Great Basin. It's hard to even think of another pianist with such a wide palette, much less another
female pianist.
And I can't think of another record label more appropriate for her than Connoisseur Society, since from the sound of it to capture her enormous range it'd take practically a magician. No doubt E. Alan Silver is just the man.
[asin]B0011NVB9E[/asin]
Hey Don,
Mama mia!! That amazon editorial review is by far the longest I have ever seen!!
Quote from: George on November 13, 2013, 06:08:17 PM
Hey Don,
Hi, George.
QuoteMama mia!! That amazon editorial review is by far the longest I have ever seen!!
:o
Whoa! I didn't even notice!
Totally unsung, totally under the radar, maximum obscurity...yet she gets a book for an editorial. :D Loaded with compliments, too. I have to say I agree with them.
Quote from: aquariuswb on November 13, 2013, 04:33:13 PM
Arrau's Schumann was an acquired taste for me, but I really enjoy it now. In this repertoire he's in some respects the polar opposite of Pollini, whose Schumann I likewise wouldn't want to be without.
Rubinstein and Cziffra are other favorites. Hamelin's underrated here, too.
For a box set, though, Arrau's the way to go if you can find it IMO. Ashkenazy and Demus are fine and worth hearing, but if you can get past Arrau's slowness, there's much to admire in his thoughtful playing and gorgeous tone.
Are the comments about Arrau a response to that op 11 on youtube I posted? Anyway I'm not sure if you're saying that in that performance there's "much to admire." If so, what? I don't have a problem with the slowness, it's his conception of the music that I find a bit difficult. In the live op 11, it's as if he plays it wanting to highlight classical values like balance, elegance.
His studio version of op 11 is smilar, though I think I prefer the live one slightly.
Generally there are one or two wonderful Arrau Schumann recordings, but maybe not in the studio recordings he made for Philips. Having said that, the Philips DBT, which he was proud of, is certainly worth catching even if it is, in my opinion, ultimately unsatisfactory.
There's a fine live Fantasie on Aura, a great Symphonic Etudes live from Prague, and an interesting early kreiseriana, a studio recording.
Has anyone heard this?
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/974/MI0000974000.jpg)
Quote from: North Star on November 13, 2013, 08:40:00 AM
I recall reading here at GMG that the Demus isn't too good.
FWIW, Gordo called the
Demus set "mandatory" early this year; Sammy's response was negative mainly about the sound of the recording:
Quote from: Sammy on January 04, 2013, 02:56:53 PM
I'm a little less enthusiastic. Although I do consider the performances close to top-flight, the sound bothers me some. It's a boxed-in sound where the top notes don't ring out and bass notes/chords are rather murky.
(Gordo's post is just above Sammy's.)
I do not yet know the Demus at all. I did get the Le Sage set some time back and I have really enjoyed it.
I've also recently enjoyed Michael Endres' 3cd collection on Oehms (though there is no CARNAVAL in it), which I got for Endres and also to have another complete
Album für die Jugend.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 13, 2013, 09:12:32 PM
A thing like that really needs to be on youtube or spotify. Noone's going to buy the CD sight unseen, even I wouldn't do it.
Yeah, I've looked in vain for Raim's Schumann on Youtube. Unfortunately obscurity comes with the territory for many of the tiny labels. Being an advocate is the only way to get the word out.
But I picked up this set after listening to the samples on Connoisseur Society's website. Took a gamble and it surely paid off.
Quote from: Octave on November 13, 2013, 09:08:11 PM
FWIW, Gordo called the Demus set "mandatory" early this year; Sammy's response was negative mainly about the sound of the recording:(Gordo's post is just above Sammy's.)
I do not yet know the Demus at all. I did get the Le Sage set some time back and I have really enjoyed it.
I've also recently enjoyed Michael Endres' 3cd collection on Oehms (though there is no CARNAVAL in it), which I got for Endres and also to have another complete Album für die Jugend.
Ah yes, I only remembered that sound quality comment, apparently.
The Endres set looks great indeed.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 13, 2013, 09:27:36 PM
Yeah, I've looked in vain for Raim's Schumann on Youtube. Unfortunately obscurity comes with the territory for many of the tiny labels. Being an advocate is the only way to get the word out.
But I picked up this set after listening to the samples on Connoisseur Society's website. Took a gamble and it surely paid off.
Hey, what the heck?? Where'd your post go, Mandryka? You and your editing!!! :laugh:
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 13, 2013, 09:32:13 PM
Hey, what the heck?? Where'd your post go, Mandryka? You and your editing!!! :laugh:
You're just too quick :)
Mandryka:
No, my comments about Arrau weren't about the video you posted, and I'll also agree that his studio recording of Op. 11 isn't his best Schumann.
I was simply stating my appreciation for Arrau's Schumann in general. I've heard most of his studio recordings and also his live Symphonic Etudes. In my opinion he's best with the sets of miniatures like Carnaval, DBT, Waldszenen, and Kreisleriana—pieces that frequently demand stark contrasts in mood. Here and there I wish Arrau would pick up the pace, but the mercuriality of Schumann's piano music has just as much to do with articulation and phrasing as it does with tempo, and Arrau (even in his old age) was a master of articulation and phrasing.
One of my favorite moments in Arrau's Schumann comes in Carnaval at the very end of "Paganini," just before the "Valse allemande" returns. The pounded-out chords give way suddenly to a sustained pianissimo chord, and Arrau achieves this in such a way that you don't even hear the pianissimo chord articulated—instead, you just hear the loud chords disappear leaving the soft sustained notes ringing out as if from nowhere. It's magic. Not sure how else to describe this, but I've heard Arrau do something similar in other places, too. There's so much shading and subtlety in his playing!
Oh, and I also like his Fantasy Op. 17. The opening measures alone are worth hearing for the warm color and balance of voicing. Just remarkable. One must ignore his too-audible breathing, as is often the case.
Ah, that effect I was talking about at the end of "Paganini"—Arrau actually does something similar in the first movement of the Fantasy, a little before the 9-minute mark. It's definitely more striking at the end of "Paganini," but still, this is the kind of thing I love about Arrau's playing.
Also, I recommend listening to the last minute of Arrau's Papillons with the volume turned way up. I'm not sure I've ever heard a pianist make better use of the instrument's resonant frequencies.
*end Arrau/Schumann rant*
Universal really needs to reissue that Philips Schumann Arrau set!!
I bought the Demus set as it's a complete survey of the solo music on 13 discs. It's excellent for getting to know this truly fascinating and original repertory but the sound indeed is a little dated and recessed, and although his technique is up to it and the articulation is there he fails to really sufficiently characterize each work. The only other Demus recording I know is the highly regarded early Winterreise with Fischer-Dieskau.
There probably is already a thread about this if moderators want to merge.
Just curious if people would like to share some of their favourite recordings of any/some/all of the following works:
Papillons
Impromptus on a theme of Clara Wieck (original version preferably)
Davidsbündlertänze
Carnaval
Sonata No. 1 in f-sharp
Fantasiestücke
Etudes symphoniques
Kinderszenen
Kreisleriana
Fantasie in C
Humoreske
Noveletten
Nachtstücke
Bunte Blätter
Albumblätter
Gesänge der Fruhe
Beethoven-Etudes
Checked my last.fm to find out that Schumann has actually eclipsed Beethoven and Bach to become my most listened-to composer over the past 12 months, and I still haven't found wholly satisfactory recordings of all of these. Was thinking of doing this as a "One X to Rule Them All" thread but that trend died pretty quickly.
(favourite Fantasiestücke - Demus or Nat; favourite Kreisleriana - probably Argerich; favourite F# minor sonata - Pollini... favourite Fantasie possibly Richter? That's actually about it)
I was taken with Wolfram Schmitt-Leonardy on Brilliant
[asin]B001G0LC1O[/asin]
The main Schumann thread is called Schumann's Shoebox.
Not that others are bad, but he seems to be a name not often mentioned. His Brahms is also excellent.
Papillons - Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Davidsbündlertänze - Alfred Cortot '37
Carnaval - ABM (EMI)
Sonata No. 1 in f-sharp - Maurizio Pollini
Fantasiestücke - Murray Perahia
Etudes symphoniques - Maurizio Pollini
Kinderszenen - Benno Moiseiwitsch '30
Kreisleriana - Vladimir Ashkenazy '72
Fantasie in C - Walter Gieseking '47
Humoreske - Andras Schiff (ECM)
Noveletten - Michel Block
Nachtstücke - Herbert Schuch
Bunte Blätter - Arcadi Volodos
Gesänge der Fruhe - Dina Ugorskaja
Quote from: amw on July 04, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
There probably is already a thread about this if moderators want to merge.
Just curious if people would like to share some of their favourite recordings of any/some/all of the following works:
Papillons
Impromptus on a theme of Clara Wieck (original version preferably)
Davidsbündlertänze
Carnaval
Sonata No. 1 in f-sharp
Fantasiestücke
Etudes symphoniques
Kinderszenen
Kreisleriana
Fantasie in C
Humoreske
Noveletten
Nachtstücke
Bunte Blätter
Albumblätter
Gesänge der Fruhe
Beethoven-Etudes
Checked my last.fm to find out that Schumann has actually eclipsed Beethoven and Bach to become my most listened-to composer over the past 12 months, and I still haven't found wholly satisfactory recordings of all of these. Was thinking of doing this as a "One X to Rule Them All" thread but that trend died pretty quickly.
(favourite Fantasiestücke - Demus or Nat; favourite Kreisleriana - probably Argerich; favourite F# minor sonata - Pollini... favourite Fantasie possibly Richter? That's actually about it)
In general I like Perahia best in Schumann, and Richter. Richter owns Faschungsschwank. Kempff is good too, especially in Kinderszenen. I, unlike some, am finding Eric Le Sage excellent overall as well. I pick him for Abegg in particular. There are some pieces I have heard only Denus and Le Sage, and the frenchman gets all of those. :)
Perahia is the one to rule them all if you can have but one.
The Schumann piano thread is located here. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17231.0.html)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 04, 2014, 07:55:02 PM
The Schumann piano thread is located here. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17231.0.html)
Thanks. This should probably get shifted over there.
And thanks for the info everyone, keep it coming—I'll do some hunting around Qobuz as time permits.
Quote from: amw on July 04, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
There probably is already a thread about this if moderators want to merge.
Just curious if people would like to share some of their favourite recordings of any/some/all of the following works:
Impromptus on a theme of Clara Wieck
Beethoven-Etudes
Ragna Schirma plays the Beethoven-Etudes, as does Katsaris, but I like Le Sage most I think. Sofronitsky plays the Impromptus on a theme of Clara Wieck.
Quote from: amw on July 04, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
Just curious if people would like to share some of their favourite recordings of any/some/all of the following works:
Papillons - Freire, Francois
Davidsbündlertänze - Cortot '37
Carnaval - Michelangeli '58 & '73, Sofronitsky
Sonata No. 1 in f-sharp - Pollini
Fantasiestücke - Rubinstein '62
Etudes symphoniques - Anda '56 Salzburg
Kinderszenen - Moiseiwitsch
Kreisleriana - Horowitz (Sony), Brand, Schuch
Fantasie in C - Sofronitsky, Egorov, Freire
Humoreske - Horowitz
Quote from: amw on July 04, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
There probably is already a thread about this if moderators want to merge.
Just curious if people would like to share some of their favourite recordings of any/some/all of the following works:
Papillons
Impromptus on a theme of Clara Wieck (original version preferably)
Davidsbündlertänze
Carnaval
Sonata No. 1 in f-sharp
Fantasiestücke
Etudes symphoniques
Kinderszenen
Kreisleriana
Fantasie in C
Humoreske
Noveletten
Nachtstücke
Bunte Blätter
Albumblätter
Gesänge der Fruhe
Beethoven-Etudes
Checked my last.fm to find out that Schumann has actually eclipsed Beethoven and Bach to become my most listened-to composer over the past 12 months, and I still haven't found wholly satisfactory recordings of all of these. Was thinking of doing this as a "One X to Rule Them All" thread but that trend died pretty quickly.
(favourite Fantasiestücke - Demus or Nat; favourite Kreisleriana - probably Argerich; favourite F# minor sonata - Pollini... favourite Fantasie possibly Richter? That's actually about it)
I think this performance of the Beethoven Etudes is outstanding - strange sound quality, maybe a very poor stream on spotify. I prefer to Ragna Schirma's, though maybe not to le Sage's, I'll check sometime. Elena Kuschnerova is an interesting pianist.
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/4260191310449.jpg)
Well, for those of you who have followed this thread from the beginning or have skimmed it all through as I just have or have dipped in from time to time the consensus was that the Fischer Fantasy wasn't up to much. If you want to hear how dreadful it actually was you'll find it here
http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/transcriptions_07.php
with some Impromptus on the other Classical page. I'm assuming this was the only recording on 78s.
Quote from: Scherzian on November 21, 2014, 01:43:11 AM
Quite a few blank spots and gaping holes for me too, but at the moment it would go like this...
Papillons, Op.2: Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Sofronitsky, Alfred Cortot, Yves Nat.
Davidsbündlertänze, Op.6: Walter Gieseking, Yves Nat.
Toccata, Op.7: Josef Lhevinne, Sviatoslav Richter.
Carnaval, Op.9: Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (1957 IIRC, on a DGG Dokumente CD), Sergei Rachmaninoff.
Sonata Nr.1 in f-sharp, Op.11: Vladimir Sofronitsky (1960), Vladimir Sofronitsky (live 1948), Elisso Virssaladze (later one), Emil Gilels. (Sofronitsky's four accounts [well, three and a half] of the Sonata are impressively different from one another; just listen to the way he plays the Introduction to the first movement, then integrates it to that movement and the Aria.)
Fantasiestücke, Op.12: Mariya Yudina, Sviatoslav Richter (incomplete and all).
Études symphoniques, Op.13: Vladimir Sofronitsky, Alfred Cortot (the later one, 1950s). (Also Yves Nat, Ivo Pogorelich.)
Sonata, Op.14: Vladimir Horowitz.
Kinderszenen, Op.15: Maryla Jonas, Mariya Grinberg. (Esteban Sánchez is also quite interesting here.)
Kreisleriana, Op.16: Vladimir Sofronitsky (1952), Vladimir Horowitz (studio and live, both from the late 1960s), Elisso Virssaladze (at La Roque d'Anthéron), Alfred Cortot (the later one, 1950s).
Fantasie in C, Op.17: Vladimir Sofronitsky (1951), Vladimir Sofronitsky (1959), Sergio Fiorentino (APR), Sviatoslav Richter (Prague), Vladimir Horowitz, and yes Edwin Fischer.
Humoreske, Op.20: Sviatoslav Richter (1956). (According to his daughter, Vladimir Sofronitsky was at his Schumann apex in Humoreske, but apparently the microphones had something better to do...)
Noveletten, Op.21: Yves Nat.
Faschingsschwank aus Wien, Op.26: Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (same DGG Dokumente CD as above).
Romances, Op.28: Vladimir Sofronitsky (live 1958 at the Scriabin Museum).
Album für die Jugend, Op.68: Carlo Zecchi (apparently a 1967 private recording that I know only thanks to Youtube; Carlo Zecchi's a wonderful musician: what a marvellous Chopin Barcarole, for instance!).
Waldszenen, Op.82: Sviatoslav Richter.
Bunte Blätter, Op.99: Sviatoslav Richter.
Have you seen the documentary about VVS with English subtitles?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQL7JxTHaV0
Is this all there is?
(By the way there's a very long Russian documentary about Maria Yudina with subtitles on yourtube too.)
Has anyone explored Franz Vorraber's Schumann.
I can let you have Zecchi Aura recording of Album for the Young at Heart if you want. It's excellent, I think it's 1967. . Zecchi's is spoilt for me a bit by the fact that he announces each piece before playing it.
Nat's Noveletten is good, but if you can you may enjoy hearing Dino Cianni. Nat's an interesting pianist with some major highs (like Moments Musicaux) and some major lows (quite a few Beethoven sonatas)
Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2014, 03:53:20 AM
Have you seen the documentary about VVS with English subtitles?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQL7JxTHaV0
Thanks!
If you think there might be more, have you looked on rutracker?
And don't forget Levy's Schumann etudes. Recently listened to Sofronitsky playing Chopin's 3rd sonata. Here's a reference to the Zecchi
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Album-Fur-Jugend-Carlo-Zecchi/dp/B00005QJRW
I don't think I can tell my favourites for all the works above. I actually have to listen to many more Schumann recordings, in most pieces. even in Kreisleriana or Symphonic Studies I'm not 100% sure of what I love. I mean, yes, of course, some Annie Fischer and Virsaladze here, Gilels and Nat there, but there are too many versions I haven't heard for a long time, if at all...
The only piece on which I am quite sure of what my favourites are (even if that can always evolve, and I always seek new versions to listen to) is the Fantasie op. 17. I'm not a big original guy in this.
- Richter, preferably live, preferably in Prague in 1959 and preferably December 2 (Praga) slightly over December 1 (Supraphon)
- Annie Fischer live, London, February 2, 1971 (BBC Legends)
- Sergio Fiorentino, Berlin studio in 1996
I really love this piece though, and there are more excellent versions, first coming to my mind being Gieseking, Argerich, Virsaladze...
Has anyone recorded the fantasie op 17 on a fortepiano?
I do not really know the Novellettes well, except for the one (F major) Richter played/recorded frequently, but Ciani is in MUCH better sound than Nat's. (Brilliant is probably the easiest way to get the Ciani as DG never issued it internationally on CD)
While I have had Nat's EMI set for almost 10 years, I find quite a bit of it hard to appreciate because the sound is mediocre, even for the 50s.
What are the opinions on Demus cheapo set for the "odds and ends" (works unfrequently played/recorded)? I got it years ago for the sake of completeness (there were no other options) but I am not sure how much of it I actually listened to...
I think Staier has two discs out on historical instruments, but the fantasy is not included.
I have pretty high opinions of Demus—his set isn't consistently good, sound is variable at best, but there are definitely some highlights incl. the Fantasiestücke op. 12 and Impromptus op. 5. Eric le Sage's playing is technically better, but somewhat bland to my ears (others have higher opinions of him). Florian Uhlig's as-yet incomplete set is fairly similar to Le Sage's except more interesting, and will probably be the one to have once it's done. I don't know the Brilliant one.
For the Novelettes, I'm finding András Schiff's live ECM recording with the Humoreske and Third Sonata to be a winner all around. Also try Piet Kuijken's recording of the works from 1838-9 on a fortepiano.
I also prefer Demus to Le Sage, that I find very artificial, and haven't managed to listen to his whole set because of that. Despite mediocre sound Demus is on the other hand an excellent Schumann interpreter and nothing sounds "bad" with him.
Haven't tried Uhlig (yet). But the whole concept of complete sets for Schumann is clearly not very interesting...
Frankl recorded a complete set for Vox, from which all I heard is very good at least. But only half of the Brilliant complete set comes from it, mixed with recordings by "bad Brilliant pianists" as Würtz etc. And I believe it hasn't been completely released on CD...
What is hard to find in the big sets is a pianist who can do the dreamy music and can do the bouncy extrovert music, and can move from one to the other crazily. Le Sage, I thought, was excellent in the Florestan music. I think (I may be wrong) that Mr Bulldog has explored some complete sets, maybe he'll comment if he sees this. Bulldog, where are you? Woof woof.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 22, 2014, 05:36:35 AMWhat is hard to find in the big sets is a pianist who can do the dreamy music and can do the bouncy extrovert music
I agree. I used to own the Demus set, and I currently own the Le Sage set, but neither pianist comes close to matching any number of versions in the big works, and they do not handle the significant stylistic differences between earlier and later works especially well. As much as I enjoy LvB and Mozart and Schubert and even Debussy complete sets, I'm done even trying with Schumann. Unless Schiff or Endres end up releasing complete sets slowly.
Quote from: Todd on November 22, 2014, 07:35:29 AM
I agree. I used to own the Demus set, and I currently own the Le Sage set, but neither pianist comes close to matching any number of versions in the big works, and they do not handle the significant stylistic differences between earlier and later works especially well. As much as I enjoy LvB and Mozart and Schubert and even Debussy complete sets, I'm done even trying with Schumann. Unless Schiff or Endres end up releasing complete sets slowly.
Did you ever try the Brilliant set, which goes the multi pianist route?
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 23, 2014, 12:43:58 PMDid you ever try the Brilliant set, which goes the multi pianist route?
Nah. For Schumann more than most other composers, I definitely prefer picking individual discs or twofers when buying piano music.
Quote from: Discobolus on November 22, 2014, 02:35:29 AM
Frankl recorded a complete set for Vox, from which all I heard is very good at least. But only half of the Brilliant complete set comes from it, mixed with recordings by "bad Brilliant pianists" as Würtz etc. And I believe it hasn't been completely released on CD...
Since nobody else will, I'll chime in and say I do NOT think Klara Würtz is a "bad pianist". Her goals may not be the same goals as yours, but her success at achieving them is unquestionable.
(Disclaimer: I have only heard her Schumann, not any of her other recordings.)
I don't think Wurtz was bad in Schumann; it impressed as much (or as little) as Frankl.
The best segment of the box was this one, which is available independently.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41sR32Y6OZL.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DPDe4gDcL.jpg)
His Brahms is also good.
Quote from: Todd on November 23, 2014, 01:11:49 PM
Nah. For Schumann more than most other composers, I definitely prefer picking individual discs or twofers when buying piano music.
I hadn't thought about it before but now that you mention it I'm in the same boat as far as Schumann. Interesting. I have single-pianist complete sets of...XYZ...but not Schumann.
The guy does have one heck-o-va unique muse...
Quote from: Brian on November 23, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
Since nobody else will, I'll chime in and say I do NOT think Klara Würtz is a "bad pianist". Her goals may not be the same goals as yours, but her success at achieving them is unquestionable.
(Disclaimer: I have only heard her Schumann, not any of her other recordings.)
What were her goals?
Quote from: Scherzian on November 23, 2014, 09:31:33 AM
A friend of mine pointed out that the more recent (ca. 2006) Yves Nat's EMI box:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61xCoMXsfiL._SY355_.jpg)
is in significantly better sound than the previous one(s?). I agree that the earlier 4-CD EMI box devoted to Schumann music played by Yves Nat is really disappointing soundwise. (Something I would not say, for instance, about the old 8-CD EMI box of LvB PS played by him; really don't know what has happened in the case of the Schumann box.)
I don't find the sound on the Novelletten a problem on that transfer.
I only know the older (90s) issue of the Nat in a 4-disc-box. It's ages that I listened to it and the sound it variable. But to my recollection it ranges from "acceptable" to astonishingly bad for 1950s.
For me, the point of the bigger sets like Demus' or Le Sages' is of course not hoping to get the best or even particularly memorable recordings of warhorses like the Fantasy or Kreisleriana. Clearly, one will get some of the more famous recordings for these often-recorded pieces. But good luck getting all those Novelletten, Fughetten, Nachtstücke, whatever that were NOT recorded by Richter, Sofronitzky, Argerich and others...
Quote from: Jo498 on November 23, 2014, 10:59:19 PMBut good luck getting all those Novelletten, Fughetten, Nachtstücke, whatever that were NOT recorded by Richter, Sofronitzky, Argerich and others...
With little digging one can find
great readings of most of the bigger works, famous or not. For instance, for the Novelleten there's Michel Block and Andras Schiff, and for the Nactstucke there's Herbert Schuch and Andras Schiff. These recordings are far preferable to Demus or Le Sage.
Quote from: Todd on November 22, 2014, 07:35:29 AMI used to own the Demus set, and I currently own the Le Sage set, but neither pianist comes close to matching any number of versions in the big works, and they do not handle the significant stylistic differences between earlier and later works especially well. As much as I enjoy LvB and Mozart and Schubert and even Debussy complete sets, I'm done even trying with Schumann.
I absolutely agree. A friend whose taste I generally trust raves about the Demus set; but, although I'm usually a sucker for big, cheap box sets, I've managed to resist the lure so far. Questions about the set's sonics aside, I find it difficult to believe that, good as Demus might be, he is able to bring something special to each performance over the entire oeuvre. I'm more than happy to explore a single pianist's complete Beethoven sonatas or Brahms solo works, but Schumann is one composer who seems to demand that the listener pick and choose among individual recordings of specific works. Perhaps that's because that, while it's instructive and illuminating to consider a particular piano work by Beethoven or Brahms in the context of other works by that composer, Schumann's piano pieces seem much more self-contained. Does that make sense?
And when there are magnificent interpretations of individual Schumann piano works by Horowitz, Rubinstein, Richter, Argerich, Wild, Pletnev, Uchida, und so weiter, is there really any need to consider a "complete Schumann" box set of by one pianist?
For me it is/was a practical consideration. I do not remember exactly but I had several recordings of Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Faschingsschwank, C major Fantasie etc. before I got the Demus set. Hardly anyone claimed that Demus was as good as the best interpretations. (I certainly do not.) But not everyone is willing to spend the effort and money to get the 50% or more of this corpus that is not frequently recorded separately in hopefully more convincing interpretations.
This is the big difference to Chopin, Beethoven or Debussy. In those cases almost all works are very frequently recorded and widely available, both in boxes and separately.
I posted this in the WAYLT thread but it will soon be buried, so...
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/100/MI0001100928.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Album fur die Jugend op. 68
Is there more to it than music for children? Given Schumann's literary propensities and his penchant for musical symbolism, there might be. This article draws some unexpected but interesting parallels:
http://www.appca.com.au/proceedings/2009/part_2/Green_Elizabeth.pdf (http://www.appca.com.au/proceedings/2009/part_2/Green_Elizabeth.pdf)
Be it as it may, if you want to briefly escape the world's madness this music is perfectly suited to the task, its charming simplicity and genuine innocence aptly conveyed by Endres. Actually, he belongs to my favorite species of pianists: technically brilliant, performance-wise delicate, sensitive and turning into gold almost everything they touch, yet unbelievably modest, unaffected and unassuming, sometimes to the point of self-effacing --- such as Murray Perahia, Maria Joao Pires, Nelson Freire, Nikolai Demidenko, Christoph Eschenbach, Brigitte Engerer, Catherine Collard, Thierry de Brunhoff, Tamas Vasary...
This has been in my shopping cart for weeks, but I just ordered it this morning:
Schumann Project: Complete Piano Solo Music
Eric Le Sage
[asin]B0092YHIAA[/asin]
13 disc collection
Quote from: sanantonio on October 15, 2015, 05:22:39 AM
This has been in my shopping cart for weeks, but I just ordered it this morning:
Schumann Project: Complete Piano Solo Music
Eric Le Sage
[asin]B0092YHIAA[/asin]
13 disc collection
I bought every single volume separately (mixed with Schumann's chamber music), even if this cycle was finally a sort of disappointment.
I would really love to see re-released the complete cycle by
Peter Frankl.
P.S.: btw, Frankl's recordings are available via Apple Music, now digitally re-released and remastered, as far as I can listen to, under the label "Menuetto Classics". Highly recommended.
:)
I think the Demus set is loaded with very fine interpretations in less than sterling sound. He's most effective in the slower and more contemplative music (Eusebius). With Florestan, he's quite gritty and demonstrative, but not at the highest levels. FWIW, I never feel that Demus is scaling the heights. On the other hand, the set is available on Amazon for under $17.
I would consider Demus's Fantasiestücke to be up there with the best (on the other hand the MDG version on a piano from Schumann's time may be considered even better). From the Le Sage set the Beethoven Variations are among the best, but that work is rarely recorded. The Uhlig super-integral (including all the fragments and unpublished works) is probably the most promising due to a very slow (30 min.) but quite expressive Humoreske, almost as good as András Schiff's, and a quite good 'reference' Davidsbündlertänze. On the other hand I think his Fantasy in C was a bit boring so who knows.
I do not think that Schiff is the pianist to listen to Schumann at all. Schumann's soul is apparently divided and often tortured and I can't hear that at any off Schiff's interpretations...even if I listen hard.
Quote from: El Chupacabra on October 16, 2015, 04:19:55 AM
I do not think that Schiff is the pianist to listen to Schumann at all. Schumann's soul is apparently divided and often tortured and I can't hear that at any off Schiff's interpretations...even if I listen hard.
I'm a big fan of Schiff and I love Schumann's music, too; but curiously I have listened to almost anything of Schumann played by Schiff. So this conversation is a good stimulus to me. That said, your comment recalled me an old idea of mine. I love when Schumann isn't played "biographically." I mean when his music is simply played like great music and not as a sub product of an ill spirit. But obviously, it's just me. :)
Quote from: Gordo on October 16, 2015, 07:57:29 AM
I'm a big fan of Schiff and I love Schumann's music, too; but curiously I have listened to almost nothing of Schumann played by Schiff. So this conversation is a good stimulus to me. That said, your comment recalled me an old idea of mine. I love when Schumann isn't played "biographically." I mean when his music is simply played like great music and not as a sub product of an ill spirit. But obviously, it's just me. :)
+1 on both accounts.
Interesting article: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jul/01/in-defence-of-schumann-steven-isserlis (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jul/01/in-defence-of-schumann-steven-isserlis) (Btw,
Geliebte Clara, the movie alluded to in the picture is actually available on Youtube, dubbed in Spanish no less so Gordo you should be busy tonight. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoY9FgeoS3c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoY9FgeoS3c) )
There is an amazing op. 17 by Catherine Collard on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op-W-amR1vU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op-W-amR1vU)
The sound is less than ideal (which I don´t mind), but the performance is mindblowing. Passion, frenzy, despair, resignation, sadness and an overall mental imbalance to the point of desintegration --- it´s all there, in spades.
Quote from: Gordo on October 16, 2015, 07:57:29 AM
I'm a big fan of Schiff and I love Schumann's music, too; but curiously I have listened to almost anything of Schumann played by Schiff. So this conversation is a good stimulus to me. That said, your comment recalled me an old idea of mine. I love when Schumann isn't played "biographically." I mean when his music is simply played like great music and not as a sub product of an ill spirit. But obviously, it's just me. :)
My intention was not a how it should be played imposition. I just don't think that using or throwing different names, with contextual approach differences, in the same context implies a healthy or informed approach...in terms of classicak music. If it
was the taste, everything is surely acceptable.
I listened to Schiff playing op 11/i on ECM. Excellent sound quality.
I'm afraid that, unless this music is played in a torrid way, I just can't make head nor tail of it. The sort of approach which Schiff takes seems to me really misconceived. Arrau plays it rather like this, though in his case it has some partially redeeming qualities: wonderful burnished tone and an intense romantic lyricism. But in both cases the result isn't really very interesting to hear because the unexpected mood swings which give the music its singularity are pretty much ironed out. This is just not a classical poised sonata.
I do not believe the torrid style of Wirssaladze or Gieseking or Gilels is necessarily allied to an attempt to show something about Schumann's life in the music, though it may contingently have been partly inspired by it. Rather I think that the music demands the Wirssaladze style.
Quote from: El Chupacabra on October 17, 2015, 06:09:21 AM
My intention was not a how it should be played imposition.
.. and, no doubt, your words didn't betray your intention.
It's crystal clear you were expressing a personal preference in a totally acceptable way. Sorry if my message gave a different impression. :)
Quote from: El Chupacabra on October 17, 2015, 06:09:21 AM
My intention was not a how it should be played imposition. I just don't think that using or throwing different names, with contextual approach differences, in the same context implies a healthy or informed approach...in terms of classicak music. If it was the taste, everything is surely acceptable.
Frankly, I don´t quite get you. Are we not allowed to post our thoughts about this or that performance of
Schumann´s Solo Piano Music, or to state our liking for this or that pianist? Or should we simply refrain from doing so just because we might not meet your criteria of a healthy or informed approach?
Quote from: Florestan on October 18, 2015, 10:55:55 AM
Are we not allowed to post our thoughts about this or that performance of Schumann´s Solo Piano Music, or to state our liking for this or that pianist?
No. I mean, why you like the pianist may be worth posting, or what aspects of the performance you like, but just saying "I like it" -- don't bother.
Quote from: Mandryka on October 18, 2015, 10:58:50 AM
No. I mean, why you like the pianist may be worth posting, or what aspects of the performance you like, but just saying "I like it" -- don't bother.
I like Alfred Cortot. ;D ;D ;D
Würtz, a fine pianist, cf. her Mozart sonatas, has a Schumann Vol. II now (at least).
There´s a surprisingly good and cheap 5 CD set on EMI with various pianists playing many of the works, but of course it´s not complete:
http://www.amazon.com/Oeuvres-Pour-Piano-Collard-Ciccolini/dp/B000V1Z0GM
I had one of the Demus CDs, but found his playing uninteresting. I also have the old Frankel Vox Box LP set of the complete piano music, and many individual recordings. Frankel is usually OK, but not really exceptional, I think.
Some Würtz and Frankel is in the Brilliant 13 CD box of the complete piano music http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schumann-Complete-Piano-Works-Boxset/dp/B002VZ2MQC
I am listening to Byron Janis's recording of Prokofiev and Rachmaninoff concertos on Mercury. One of the additional CD tracks is Schumann's Variations on a Theme by Clara Wieck ("Quasi Variazioni"). No catalog number is given. Is this the same piece as the op. 5 Impromptus on a Theme by Clara Wieck?
Quote from: Pat B on May 11, 2017, 08:44:37 AM
I am listening to Byron Janis's recording of Prokofiev and Rachmaninoff concertos on Mercury. One of the additional CD tracks is Schumann's Variations on a Theme by Clara Wieck ("Quasi Variazioni"). No catalog number is given. Is this the same piece as the op. 5 Impromptus on a Theme by Clara Wieck?
No, it's the slow movement of Sonata op.14.
Quote from: Draško on May 11, 2017, 09:02:40 AM
No, it's the slow movement of Sonata op.14.
Thanks!
Talking about bad Naxos discs the Schumann disc of Piano Sonatas 1 & 3 (Glemser) IS bad. There's a sniffing distortion that modulates with the piano sound. Perhaps not Glemser's fault, but the CD is not enjoyable. Pretty useless disc and I wonder if people at Naxos were deaf at the time since they released such junk. ::)
I have remained a "newbie" with Schumann. I have a half dozen Naxos discs of his music and th symphonies orch. Mahler on BIS. That's it. Reading messages on this board makes me feel so inferior. I don't know how you people get so smart with all the performances and stuff. Must take so much time, money and energy. Maybe you invest so much more on those things on classical music than i do?
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 12:39:43 AM
I don't know how you people get so smart with all the performances and stuff. Must take so much time, money and energy. Maybe you invest so much more on those things on classical music than i do?
Very probably. In addition, there are also people with a gift for writing eloquently about all kinds of stuff, including music and performances. The latter is not necessarily related to having great understanding or conveying useful information but sometimes it is and in any case it gives the appearance of being deeply familiar with a lot of music in a lot of performances.
I have another disc with Glemser (incl Sonata #2) and as far as I recall it is pretty good (collaboration with Swiss Radio). (Edit: I have Naxos 8.550715 with opp.22,23,18,32,7 and the original finale of op.22. Rec. August 1993 in Lugano.)
But the sonatas are not really Schumann's best music (maybe #1). Try the Fantasie op.17, Carnaval (this one and the "Toccata" might be the most obviously "brilliant" and also very accessible pieces), the Symphonic Etudes (one of the more "classical", less fancifully romantic pieces), Kreisleriana, Davidsbündlertänze and Fantasiestücke (the last three all very fanciful and romantic).
As you like baroque music you might try a few of his that were somewhat influenced by (mainly) Bach: Toccata op.7, Fughetten and especially the "canonic studies" op.56 for Pedal piano (there are arrangements for normal pianos).
If you like any Lieder, try Schumann's Dichterliebe and the op.39 Eichendorff-Lieder.
I also love a lot his chamber music; the most popular piece is the piano quintet but the piano quartet is as good (and more in a chamber style) and the trios, quartets and violin sonatas all worth listening to. Although I like his symphonies I am not sure they are his strongest pieces.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AM
there are also people with a gift for writing eloquently about all kinds of stuff, including music and performances. The latter is not necessarily related to having great understanding or conveying useful information but sometimes it is and in any case it gives the appearance of being deeply familiar with a lot of music in a lot of performances.
;D
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AM
I have another disc with Glemser (incl Sonata #2) and as far as I recall it is pretty good (collaboration with Swiss Radio).
Yes, the disc with Brahms' third. That's sonically better if I remember correctly. Recorded 3 and a half years earlier (the bad disc is Swiss Radio too).
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AMBut the sonatas are not really Schumann's best music (maybe #1).
I agree. The sonatas were a disappointment to me and the bad sonics didn't help appreciating the music. :P
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AMTry the Fantasie op.17, Carnaval (this one and the "Toccata" might be the most obviously "brilliant" and also very accessible pieces), the Symphonic Etudes (one of the more "classical", less fancifully romantic pieces), Kreisleriana, Davidsbündlertänze and Fantasiestücke (the last three all very fanciful and romantic).
Thanks for this list! :) Out of these recommendations I have Kreisleriana, Davidsbündlertänze and Fantasiestücke.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AMAs you like baroque music you might try a few of his that were somewhat influenced by (mainly) Bach: Toccata op.7, Fughetten and especially the "canonic studies" for Pedal piano (there are arrangements for normal pianos).
Sounds interesting! Anything influenced by Bach is interesting.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AMIf you like any Lieder, try Schumann's Dichterliebe and the op.39 Eichendorff-Lieder.
Perhaps not my alley...
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AMI also love a lot his chamber music; the most popular piece is the piano quintet but the piano quartet is as good (and more in a chamber style) and the trios, quartets and violin sonatas all worth listening to. Although I like his symphonies I am not sure they are his strongest pieces.
Yes, chamber music seems perhaps the most interesting part of his output and in fact about half of my Schumann collection is chamber music. But I don't have all of it.
So, Fantasie op.17, Carnaval, the Symphonic Etudes, Toccata op.7, Fughetten the "canonic studies" and rest of his chamber music is where to look next. :)
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AM
there are also people with a gift for writing eloquently about all kinds of stuff, including music and performances. The latter is not necessarily related to having great understanding or conveying useful information but sometimes it is and in any case it gives the appearance of being deeply familiar with a lot of music in a lot of performances.
Yes, I would say that an authoritative writing style does not necessarily indicate knowledge or discernment. And even someone who has all of those things may have wildly different taste than the reader.
ETA: I actually have not read this thread yet, was speaking generally.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 12, 2017, 01:08:59 AM
there are also people with a gift for writing eloquently about all kinds of stuff, including music and performances. The latter is not necessarily related to having great understanding or conveying useful information
@me next time
I´ve ordered the Le Sage complete piano works set, quite cheap at JPC.de currently, as a supplement to my other recordings. Judging from the samples, he seems to give a lot of life to the lesser known pieces as well, and his style suits my taste, so: looking forward.
Quote from: Turner on May 24, 2017, 01:22:16 AM
I´ve ordered the Le Sage complete piano works set, quite cheap at JPC.de currently, as a supplement to my other recordings. Judging from the samples, he seems to give a lot of life to the lesser known pieces as well, and his style suits my taste, so: looking forward.
Unfortunately I can´t find the
Arabeske opus 18 in this box set, which is supposed to be the complete piano works, and even though it is listed at JPC.de´s and Presto Classical´s lists of the content of the CD box
(https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Robert-Schumann-1810-1856-Das-Klavierwerk/hnum/1287680)
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/llf/-/Eric%2Ble%2BSage%2BSchumann/1)
The same possibly applies to the
Geisterthema Variations.
CD 13 only has the 9 tracks of Waldszenen, and a playing time just around 20 mins.
Has anyone found it, or experienced the same problem? Is it hiding somewhere among the tracks, and thus missed by the booklet or CD covers listing the content? I know the piece, but haven´t heard all the discs or the many tracks yet ...
OK, problem solved, via downloading the accompanying liner notes as a PDF file, 185 pages.
In the CD box itself, a CD cover contains an error; it omits that in CD 12, Track no.4 is the Arabeske, and of course not a 4th track of the "3 Romanzen op.28" as listed.
In the small booklet of the CD box, the Arabeske op.18 is indeed listed as track 4 on CD 12, but it is not highlighted like it should.
The Geister Variations (1854) are likewise on CD 12, just called Variations there.
I remember getting some Schumann PM from the library, whoever the famous Schumann pianist (K??), and, mm, yea, either the wrong piece or what,...
Besides the Cello Concerto, I don't know if I can handle Schumann,... but let's stay with the PM...
some reviewer said, after a while, Schumann PM seems to all be "variations on...LOUD"... banging, crescendos, chords,... says Schumann's butt would be in the air most of the time...
compared to Chopin???... whom I am now enjoying (enough)
What's the pearls before swine with Schumann? please 0:)
Quote from: snyprrr on June 08, 2018, 03:17:01 PM
I remember getting some Schumann PM from the library, whoever the famous Schumann pianist (K??), and, mm, yea, either the wrong piece or what,...
Besides the Cello Concerto, I don't know if I can handle Schumann,... but let's stay with the PM...
some reviewer said, after a while, Schumann PM seems to all be "variations on...LOUD"... banging, crescendos, chords,... says Schumann's butt would be in the air most of the time...
compared to Chopin???... whom I am now enjoying (enough)
What's the pearls before swine with Schumann? please 0:)
You mean Kempff? Famous Schumann pianist?
Anyway I am kind of with you, I don't really "get" Schumann's solo piano music either. Maybe some day I will.
I've listened to Schumann's piano music off and on for years, and while I liked it, it was never a big favorite for me. For whatever reason, over the past few weeks it's really started to "click," and this past weekend I listened to little else. Better late than never, I suppose :)
Digging through my library, it turns out I have more Schumann than I thought I did, much of it tucked away in various box sets. Listed below is what I think is my entire collection of Schumann solo piano recordings (barring I'm sure a few CD couplings here and there that I've yet to track down)...
I think I have more than enough to enjoy for quite a while, but if I were to add a few more items to my shelves, which of your favorite recordings am I missing?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/411hqPEJtZL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71twZSPloML.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81UyrdVYnuL.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51efBF1JnhL._SX355_.jpg)(https://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/0028947439325_p0_v1_s550x406.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81MH6MUFt7L.jpg)(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2737664a4a2b45364085a037584)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XZKS3PE7L.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RmbR77MRL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71MYhM8EdML.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/414KG3P24JL.jpg)
Quote from: j winter on March 09, 2020, 07:07:47 AM
I've listened to Schumann's piano music off and on for years, and while I liked it, it was never a big favorite for me. For whatever reason, over the past few weeks it's really started to "click," and this past weekend I listened to little else. Better late than never, I suppose :)
Digging through my library, it turns out I have more Schumann than I thought I did, much of it tucked away in various box sets. Listed below is what I think is my entire collection of Schumann solo piano recordings (barring I'm sure a few CD couplings here and there that I've yet to track down)...
I think I have more than enough to enjoy for quite a while, but if I were to add a few more items to my shelves, which of your favorite recordings am I missing?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/O-0AAOSw66hdTIZT/s-l300.jpg)
Quote from: j winter on March 09, 2020, 07:07:47 AM
I've listened to Schumann's piano music off and on for years, and while I liked it, it was never a big favorite for me. For whatever reason, over the past few weeks it's really started to "click," and this past weekend I listened to little else. Better late than never, I suppose :)
Digging through my library, it turns out I have more Schumann than I thought I did, much of it tucked away in various box sets. Listed below is what I think is my entire collection of Schumann solo piano recordings (barring I'm sure a few CD couplings here and there that I've yet to track down)...
I think I have more than enough to enjoy for quite a while, but if I were to add a few more items to my shelves, which of your favorite recordings am I missing?
Hi
JWinter - I go through my Schumann piano collection periodically and have been culling and adding for years - pictured below are the 6 performers I own at the moment, from single CDs to the 13 disc Le Sage box - quoted at the bottom is simply a listing of the works from the recordings w/ symbols marking the performances and showing the MANY duplications - for me Schumann's solo piano has always been problematic.
NOW,
San Antone just showed a box set w/
Dana Ciocarlie, which he and
André lauded a few days ago in another thread - since these were 'live' performances, I left a question about audience noise (i.e. coughs, applause, etc.) - hope someone will answer the query (just me, but dislike a lot of audience participation unless I'm at a concert). Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61qWQ-qMNbL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71MYhM8EdML._SL1400_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41ukJdei-RL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81VtvjLM3lL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71L2iitWMSL._SS500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61jVrtNfdOL.jpg)
QuoteSchumann Piano Works (solo)
Albumblatter, Op.124@
Arabeske, Op.18*^
Blumenstuck. Op.19*@
Bunte Blatter, Op.99#@
Carnaval, Op.9^@
Davidsbundlertanze, Op.6@
Drei Clavier-Sonaten...Jugend, Op.118a-c@
Drei Phantasiestucke, Op.111@
Drei Romanzen, Op.28*@
Etudes Paganini Caprices, Op.3 & 10@
Etudes Symphoniques, Op.13@
Fantasie, Op.17+@
Fantasiestuche, Op.12#@
Faschingsschwank,Op.26+@
Fur die Jugend, Op.68@
Gesange der Fruhe, Op.133#@
Humoreske, Op.20*@
Intermizzi, Op.4@
Kinderszenen, Op.15*^$@
Kreisleriana, Op.16+#$@
Nachtstucke, Op.23*#@
Novelletten, Op.21*@
Papillons, Op.2^@
Sieben Fuguetten, Op.126@
Sonatas+@
Vier Klavierstucke, Op.32@
Vier Fugen, Op.72@
Waldscenen, Op.82@
*Kuijken,Piet on fortepiano - Fug562 - 2 CDs
+Wurtz,Klara - Brilliant (99791) - 3 CDs
#Cabasso, Laurent - Naive (1004) - 2 CDs
^Freire, Nelson - Decca (473 902-2)
$Argerich, Martha - DG (410 653-2)
@Le Sage, Eric - Alpha 813 - 13 CDs (most above)
Of the pianists who recorded Schumann for Brilliant, I think the best is Wolfram Schmitt-Leonardy.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41xfeHVrHtL.jpg)
Pricing for a physical copy is downright ridiculous on Amazon US, but Amazon download price is only $6.99
As a physical CD, this single is available used rather cheaply
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AVrU9FPKL.jpg)
The full Brilliant box (including Wurtz) is here.
[asin]B002VZ2MQC[/asin]
There's another issue of the set with a different cover, but it's another one of those things Amazon thinks is worth almost $1000.
Quote from: j winter on March 09, 2020, 07:07:47 AM
Digging through my library, it turns out I have more Schumann than I thought I did, much of it tucked away in various box sets. Listed below is what I think is my entire collection of Schumann solo piano recordings (barring I'm sure a few CD couplings here and there that I've yet to track down)...
My favorite solo piano Schumann performances are by Richter and Cortot. And Natan Brand.
This complete set is usually overlooked, if known at all and it's a pity because it's at least as good as Demus'. Unfortunately it appears to be OOP.
(https://www.music-bazaar.com/album-images/vol17/787/787715/2640234-big/Reine-Gianoli-Schumann-Complete-Piano-Works-CD6-cover.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 09, 2020, 08:19:24 AM
NOW, San Antone just showed a box set w/ Dana Ciocarlie, which he and André lauded a few days ago in another thread - since these were 'live' performances, I left a question about audience noise (i.e. coughs, applause, etc.) - hope someone will answer the query (just me, but dislike a lot of audience participation unless I'm at a concert). Dave :)
If the cover had not said these were live performances I would not know. No audience sound of any kind, at least for the parts I've listened to.
I really like this set
[asin]B00004Z34M[/asin]
I got it from a friend who upgraded to this box:
[asin]B00151HZ42[/asin]
Thanks to all for the suggestions :)
I think I'm standing pat for now, until I get more familiar with what I've got, but I'm definitely compiling a wishlist.
Regarding Wilhelm Kempff... Is his later stereo set notably different than the mono set above (other than covering more works and presumably being in better sound)?
Regarding Richter... there are so many options out there. Any favorites beyond the EMI above? Preferably something that wasn't recorded on wax cylinders under somebody's overcoat in a bathroom in 1952.... ;D
Quote from: j winter on March 10, 2020, 07:18:09 AM
Regarding Richter... there are so many options out there. Any favorites beyond the EMI above?
This one is great:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41WzVAO9LqL.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Waldszenen-Fantasiestu%CC%88cke-Novellette-Abegg-Variationen/dp/B00000E53F
https://www.ebay.com/p/71476596
Quote from: Daverz on March 09, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
I really like this set
[asin]B00004Z34M[/asin]
That makes at least two of us. Though I'd add another 'really'. If not two.
Schumann's piano music is about as truthful as music gets for me, and I don't think there's any music I feel closer too. The world's been blessed by many fine players, Richter, Egorov, Kempff, Argerich etc .. the list is long. And I can't ever remember hearing a performance that I really took against (Pletnev when I'm not in the mood perhaps, but when I am, wow), but anyway look forward to exploring a few names above I've not yet heard.
This looks quite comprehensive, j winter, probably listen first to all this before you get more ;) (I should do the same myself :D)
+1 to Richter Waldszenen etc. There is also a newer issue and the sound is mostly very good studio mono from the late 1950s.
+1 to Egorov as well. Bunte Blätter is not that well covered on disc, but there is also a Richter recording on Altus/Regis (I think)
Re Richter's Schumann, he explored quite a lot of Schumann in the final part of his career, after his heart trouble. That's when his piano playing is interesting for me. There's a recording of the op 23 Nachtstucke here which I like a lot. He digs deep, as it were, it's probing.
(https://www.pianistdiscography.com/Images/Sviatoslav_Richter/Decca_Japan/UCCD/Richter-UCCD9944.jpg)
In his day his Schumann was really well received, and he played all the big war horses, including the Fantasy Op 17. For me, it's once again the late recordings which matter most, because what's striking in those performances, is the depth of feeling rather than the technique. There's only one late op 17 I know and I like it very much, here
(http://www.doremi.com/img/Richter7jp)
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
Re Richter's Schumann, he explored quite a lot of Schumann in the final part of his career, after his heart trouble.
If you have heart troubles stick with Schumann, no more Schubert. Doctor's orders.l
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
Re Richter's Schumann, he explored quite a lot of Schumann in the final part of his career, after his heart trouble. That's when his piano playing is interesting for me. There's a recording of the op 23 Nachtstucke here which I like a lot. He digs deep, as it were, it's probing.
(https://www.pianistdiscography.com/Images/Sviatoslav_Richter/Decca_Japan/UCCD/Richter-UCCD9944.jpg)
I have this set, which contains performances from 8th July 1986 in Odd Fellow Palæet, Copenhagen, the same year as the CD above. I'll give it a spin soon, it's been awhile.
(https://img.discogs.com/h-d__Bg96tq2nrTF0GcbLuMQAQQ=/fit-in/600x539/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10290342-1494755228-6170.jpeg.jpg)
Quote from: George on March 10, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
I have this set, which contains performances from 8th July 1986 in Odd Fellow Palæet, Copenhagen, the same year as the CD above. I'll give it a spin soon, it's been awhile.
I just found a crazy turbulent Nachtstucke from Natan Brand, bad sound.
To me, the greatest performance of a Schumann piano work - and he did it twice. The amazing and not that well known Sergio Fiorentino.
This one on December 14 1992 which is a studio recording from Berlin
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51RoJzfWwbL._AC_UY327_QL65_ML3_.jpg)
And there's this recorded live in Germany almost exactly a year later December 12 1993 in Paderborn
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81j9EJ40X2L._SX355_.jpg)
I feel that the live recording slightly shades the studio but it's very close.
The Studio recording is available on Spotify.
Quote from: Jo498 on March 10, 2020, 12:41:12 PM
This looks quite comprehensive, j winter, probably listen first to all this before you get more ;) (I should do the same myself :D )
Sound advice $:) I am definitely keeping a list for later, though.... thanks to all for the suggestions!
Quote from: Daverz on March 09, 2020, 02:58:48 PM
I really like this set
I got it from a friend who upgraded to this box:
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00151HZ42.01.L.jpg)
That said, I am seriously contemplating pulling the trigger on the above bargain box. Looks like lots of good stuff in there besides the Schumann...
I also "upgraded" to the larger Egorov Box after having owned the twofer before, but this was many years ago. But for me the Schumann recordings remained the most important/impressive from the box.
My latest Schumann obsession is Papillons, and I just listened to Erogov's recording. Splendid, just wonderful.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71WEY73xdVL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61gZmERd7yL._SS500_.jpg)
The Nachtstucke here is really really outstanding.
If I remember correctly it was part of his first Schumann CD, made before the Alpha project was started, but later incorporated into Alpha. It also had Fantasiestucke, Kinderszenen and Gesänge der Frühe. I can't find an image of the original CD
Anyway, this is an extraordinary performance.
I don't know if the older recordings were included in the Alpha set, or some of them, but here is the double with the 1996 and 2001 recordings on RCA
ASIN: B0000AK0DS
[asin]B0000AK0DS[/asin]
The timings for the old one are
5,45
5,25
3,32
5,00
I'm not sure if he remade it for the complete set.
I can't compare because I only have the disc I linked to, not the Alpha set.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 11, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
The timings for the old one are
5,45
5,25
3,32
5,00
I'm not sure if he remade it for the complete set.
Exact match with the Alpha apart from more silence in the last track.
Quote from: North Star on March 12, 2020, 10:01:22 AM
Exact match with the Alpha apart from more silence in the last track.
Any thoughts on why he recorded it twice? They seem very similar to me.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 12, 2020, 10:25:29 AM
Any thoughts on why he recorded it twice? They seem very similar to me.
Contractual reasons spring to mind, or maybe Le Sage just wanted to record the piece again even if his interpretation hadn't changed over time, for the sake of unity or whatever.
Quote from: j winter on March 11, 2020, 07:58:21 AM
Sound advice $:) I am definitely keeping a list for later, though.... thanks to all for the suggestions!
That said, I am seriously contemplating pulling the trigger on the above bargain box. Looks like lots of good stuff in there besides the Schumann...
I own it and highly recommend it.
Gregorio Nardi looks like he could be an interesting piano player. He records on a real obscure label, Phoenix Classics, but it's on Spotify. He's partly interesting because of the repertoire - early drafts of music, unpublished music, fragments etc. But somehow these seem to be assembled into attractive programme CDs - the one that's caught my attention is called Papillotten.
I discovered him because a string quartet which interests me - The 3G String Quartet (they have recorded Klaus Huber) - said on their webpage that they are recording Schumann with him for a platform called Limenmusic. I haven't looked into this yet.
Well worth checking out I'd say if you have Spotify - he doesn't seem to be on Qobuz.
It's interesting that Samuel Feinberg, the most mystical of pianists, should have chosen to record the album for the young. Does he make anything magical, mystical, out of it?
I think he does actually. Try it if you don't trust me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg7_1roqBng
Quote from: Mandryka on October 23, 2022, 01:43:55 PM
It's interesting that Samuel Feinberg, the most mystical of pianists, should have chosen to record the album for the young. Does he make anything magical, mystical, out of it?
I think he does actually. Try it if you don't trust me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg7_1roqBng
There's more to
Album for the Young than meets the ear. See this booklet:
https://d2vhizysjb6bpn.cloudfront.net/TOCC0522DIGIBKLT.pdf (https://d2vhizysjb6bpn.cloudfront.net/TOCC0522DIGIBKLT.pdf)
TD: an exceptionally lively, fresh and youthful
ABEGG-Variationen is to be found on the first CD of this set:
(https://i.discogs.com/0DVutjVeFQlDi22VErFN47cvCNpbasQ1p9pGV1D6mBY/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:500/w:500/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3ODg4/NDY0LTE2MTYwMDg2/NTEtNjEyNy5qcGVn.jpeg)
I can let you have it if interested.
Cziffra Schumann op 11 Besançon 1961 -- pretty good I'd say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alPh57OZfJQ&ab_channel=PianoJFAudioSheet
Annie Fischer Schumann op 11
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkXIy6sURw
(https://i.discogs.com/oWmYkiy_SK1gfMojokQvnj9I_JkCz73P0GPzmQTm9lM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:592/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNjcz/MDEyLTE1MjA0MzAz/OTMtMjkxMi5qcGVn.jpeg)
The Schumann Etudes. This is muscular playing which manages to be be rather fine and graceful. The piano has a certain steeliness, not unattractive. I don't know why Russian recordings have that quality sometimes, as if Steinway provided them with a certain style of Model Ds. Vedernikov deserves to be heard I think.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mw_hnq5FvuU
Vitaly Margulis Kreisleriana. I mean anything from his has to be worth a shot. It's also here
https://open.spotify.com/track/0ZZkuh7iRr6dNdzGEQEigA
Quote from: Ratliff on March 11, 2020, 09:03:19 AMMy latest Schumann obsession is Papillons, and I just listened to Erogov's recording. Splendid, just wonderful.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71WEY73xdVL._SS500_.jpg)
I recall really enjoying Kreisleriana from this disc which is also in the box someone posted above (also enjoyable, though a bit uneven) and sure enough it was fantastic. I've been reacquainting myself with all the recordings I own after a really great live performance. Listened to Herbert Schuch after and this was also good.
I too really like that Youri Egorov EMI 2CD of Schumann.
Found my all time favorite of Kreisleriana thanks to Mark Ainley. I have Brand's APR and Palexa albums where the Kreisleriana on them is quite good however I greatly prefer the performance on this studio recording. If I heard it blind without knowing who the pianist was I would have thought it's Claudio Arrau; the quality of this recording really shows off Natan Brand's round/rich tone and like Arrau is played with the perfect amount of sensitivity and brio when called for. I guess Horowitz's recordings are the most famous and might have even been the first I heard but I never loved the work when I heard him. The balance between "very slowly/intimate" and lively pieces lacks contrast with Horowitz.
(https://i.imgur.com/vgMBVBx.jpg)
Quote from: Zauberschloss on August 28, 2023, 03:57:00 PMFound my all time favorite of Kreisleriana thanks to Mark Ainley. I have Brand's APR and Palexa albums where the Kreisleriana on them is quite good however I greatly prefer the performance on this studio recording. If I heard it blind without knowing who the pianist was I would have thought it's Claudio Arrau; the quality of this recording really shows off Natan Brand's round/rich tone and like Arrau is played with the perfect amount of sensitivity and brio when called for. I guess Horowitz's recordings are the most famous and might have even been the first I heard but I never loved the work when I heard him. The balance between "very slowly/intimate" and lively pieces lacks contrast with Horowitz.
(https://i.imgur.com/vgMBVBx.jpg)
It's not just the sound that's so much better than the two live Kreislerianas, I think the performance is more thoughtful, in some sense more mature. In a way that's not surprising I guess - you sound ideas out in concert and put your considered view down in the studio.
Thanks for reminding me of these recordings by the way, I hadn't heard them in a very long time.
Really enjoying op 118/2 here - not "great" music, but somehow rather agreeable
Quote from: Mandryka on August 29, 2023, 08:47:09 AMIt's not just the sound that's so much better than the two live Kreislerianas, I think the performance is more thoughtful, in some sense more mature. In a way that's not surprising I guess - you sound ideas out in concert and put your considered view down in the studio.
Thanks for reminding me of these recordings by the way, I hadn't heard them in a very long time.
I don't like the studio recording more because of the recording the quality, on the studio Kreisleriana comes across as better balanced between the two styles of pieces.
I have been meaning to revisit all the pieces you suggested in the Schumann composer thread, every time we leave I forget to take the Eric Le Sage box with me. I need to solve this, maybe with Roon Arc or some other file sharing method that won't compromise our network.