Well it's 7.30 am and I think we are short a thread for guitarists to discuss their compositions and playing. I know Greg and snyprrr play, as does Toccata and Fugue (because I checked out his guitars on his website!).
So what are people working on? I'm currently working on my speed and execution of the B section of Villa Lobos Prelude 1 and the higher numbered Sor Op 6 exercises.
As for composition, well I'm working on a counterpoint study inspired by Ustaloskoyas late piano sonatas.
I'm still working on that Magnum Opus,... haha,...
I did a dry run through of all the things I could think of that I wanted in it, just as an improv one-off, and it came out to 9mins. So, I satisfied myself that there really is a piece in there. Maybe we'll get into the 11-13min. range, but, at least, I know that there is material there.
The piece is in sections, with various concerns represented in each. I am somewhat pleased that I think that this piece 'sounds' pretty different from other Avant Classical Guitar that I've heard. Most of them sound somewhat like the Ferneyhough: lots of bleepy-bloopy superfast runs,... fragmented,... my piece will have a little of Murail's Tellur in spots, and lots of exploring the 'sounds' such as fingers running up and down strings, and playing notes from the nut position instead of the soundhole position,... and such like, BUT
All these things will be brought together as musically as possible.
Anyhow, I am trying to write something that I CAN'T play, which is difficult because we don't normally think of stuff like that.
I've been working on this for say 9 months now, and I have a very good idea of what the finished product would look like, but I am stuck on the first transition, and most all of the transitions,... and how to write these things.
Now I REALLY need the help of someone with the actual writing. I have so far about 25 pages of 'sections' and bits of sections. Much of it is on multiple staves because I don't know any other way to get around playing two of the same note at the same time (one thing the guitar can do in spades).
I am EXTREMELY undisciplined, and lazy, and spoiled, and have a super hard time not thinking about girls, so this project is becoming like my mockery. It seems that, just like in Spinal Tap, "As long as there's sex and drugs, who needs the rock'n'roll?" haha,... I'm not saying we're THERE, haha, but, it sure feeeels like 'going to work' whenever I start trying to put pen to paper. Dreariness! :'(
I will probably have to hire a transcriber, or ghost writer,...ugh.
Still, if you asked me, I could flub through the piece and give you a good understanding of the concerns presented, and you would see how someone with ten extraordinary fingers could turn this into a real barnburner!
What do you guys think about playing the bass strings very high up on the neck? I love the 'dead' sound that you get here, and prefer to play single note meditations up there. It's like the difference of playing the 'b' of the open b-string, as opposed to playing the 'b' all the way up the neck on the 6th (bass) string.
Also, what do you think about playing notes, plucking from the NUT direction, instead of from the BRIDGE direction? You can find some interesting melodies from there. It's like a reverse neck. Would ALL guitars have the same notes, though? If it's standardized, I would imagine. Haven't checked though.
Also, I AM asking: How many SPECIFICALLY DIFFERENT percussive sounds can the Classical Guitar make? With the hands alone? I find four 'areas':
1) larger (bassier) part of the body.
2) smaller part of the body.
3) side of the body
4) headstock
... and these could be played by:
1) fat part of the hand (palm).
2) knuckles/ fingertips.
3) fingernails.
So, is that 12? What have you found?
I'm glad to hear the piece is coming along. Don't forget to add a Bartok pizzicato ;D. Groundwork and planning are essential, of course. For the piece I'm working on I started with a relatively simple algorithm from which I can map overall note durations, intervals, and clusters to where they should appear in the final piece and from this I develop the work using my own aesthetic criteria. So I'm pretty much at the framework stage and it's a notation mess at the moment. Like you it's slow with other things going on but unfortunately not the sex, drugs, and rock n'roll type. I'l get there. I do have some finished stuff, a Lawesesque canon and a prelude for piano most recently that I wrote for the missus.
I like the bass strings down beyond the 12th fret but with a little bit of vibrato. The Villa-Lobos I mentioned above plays an F sharp (I think off the top of my head) on the D (4th) string (as well as an E earlier on) and it's a beautiful sound. You can also notate the same note played on two strings quite happily (something else the first Villa Lobos prelude does!). If you mark the score with a fret for position, you can normally work out the fingering as it is most commonly a bass string in high position with an open treble.
All this talk of contemporary guitar :D. I checked my amazon wishlist and I saw Starobins Newdance CD nice and cheap so I've just picked that up. I've put the Hoppstock 20th century guitar CDs on my wishlist also (after a rec from Toccata&Fugue) but I'll have to wait until these drop in price.
Quote from: Il Furioso on April 18, 2011, 10:20:28 PM
Well it's 7.30 am and I think we are short a thread for guitarists to discuss their compositions and playing. I know Greg and snyprrr play, as does Toccata and Fugue (because I checked out his guitars on his website!).
Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.
I'm working on Carlo Domeniconi's Chaconne--he took Bach's piece and basically replaced the notes! Aside from the fast scales, Carlo's is even more difficult to play. (Carlo's are primarily slurred and fall under the left hand very nicely, but the big arpeggio section is brutal!)
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 23, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.
I'm working on Carlo Domeniconi's Chaconne--he took Bach's piece and basically replaced the notes! Aside from the fast scales, Carlo's is even more difficult to play. (Carlo's are primarily slurred and fall under the left hand very nicely, but the big arpeggio section is brutal!)
Yes, I did, they looked kind of tough. Have you recorded them yourself? Listening to me midi's, I really liked the contrast between the formal baroque like structures but very contemporary harmonies, but it would be great to hear them in all their glory.
Love your guitars, what strings are you playing with (look out, guitar nerd talk approaching). I play a Kantare I 500 cedar top with Aquila Ambra nylgut strings. The strings can be a bit unstable but I love the warm mellow tone. I went back to try some composites again recently (D'Addario EXP45C) and it felt like I was playing a harpisichord by comparison.
Time to get down to practice now, I'm ironing out bars 39 and 60 of Maximo Pujol's Preludio Triston. I'm meant to be painting the front door ???
Not a guitarist (how I wish I could...) but a composer who is, among many other things, fascinated and seduced by the contemporary classical guitar - from Britten's Nocturnal and Tippett's Blue Guitar through Henze's Royal Winter Music to Ferneyhough (and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar). I'd love to write something for guitar - I think my style might well suit the instrument well. But as a non-player, the idea intimidates me a little!
So I'm posting only to say that I'll follow the thread with interest!
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 23, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.
Where are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.
Quote from: Luke on April 24, 2011, 12:52:03 AM
Not a guitarist (how I wish I could...) but a composer who is, among many other things, fascinated and seduced by the contemporary classical guitar - from Britten's Nocturnal and Tippett's Blue Guitar through Henze's Royal Winter Music to Ferneyhough (and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar). I'd love to write something for guitar - I think my style might well suit the instrument well. But as a non-player, the idea intimidates me a little!
So I'm posting only to say that I'll follow the thread with interest!
Where are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.
To be truthful, I've tried and tried with the Royal Winter Music but it just evades me. It just seems so static to my ear, I really need to give it another go.
The guitar is very idiomatic but if you decide to put pen to paper there are those of us here who would be more than happy to work with you :)
I've played the Pujol this morning, some Dowland, some Sor, de Visee, and Villa Lobos. Now I must go and paint that door.
Quote from: Il Furioso on April 24, 2011, 02:12:18 AM
To be truthful, I've tried and tried with the Royal Winter Music but it just evades me. It just seems so static to my ear, I really need to give it another go.
There's stasis there, but so much variety of texture, and so many degrees of tonality, artfully explored. I love the way it moves through the spectrum as it does, as if 'proximity to tonality' is one of the parameters the composer is exploring, along with 'proximity to regular beat' and 'proximity to textural archetypes', if that makes any sense. It's a beautifully subtle, complex mix, to my mind/ear/eye
Thanks for the offer of advice, btw! Much appreciated. It's a tempting idea, one I may explore at some point when there is time.
My teacher has a recital for all his students at the end of the year. I'll be doing a transcription of Bach's Italian Concerto for two guitars. Jeez, it's next week! I better get off the computer and start practicing.
Quote from: Luke on April 24, 2011, 12:52:03 AM
...and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar).
I listened to 'for piano II' on youtube . Gentle and haunting, really nice piece. I may well have to pick up the CD of his works. If it is of this quality then it's a shame his piano music isn't better served on disc.
I haven't really been working on anything lately. Also, don't forget that Andy is a guitarist, too!
Quote from: Il Furioso on April 24, 2011, 06:08:41 AM
I listened to 'for piano II' on youtube . Gentle and haunting, really nice piece. I may well have to pick up the CD of his works. If it is of this quality then it's a shame his piano music isn't better served on disc.
In the mystery scores thread I posted the first page of the score of this piece, years ago. It's number 223...I'll see if I can turn up the link...
Yes, it's in this post (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3125.msg174894.html#msg174894). For some reason numbered 222 there, but it was definitely 223 in my files! One of the many counting mistakes I made in that wonderful thread ;D
I'd post the image here but can't do attachments at present. Which was, btw, to anyone in power who is reading this, the reason that best-of-all-threads died....for now.
Quote from: Luke on April 24, 2011, 12:52:03 AMWhere are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.
www.johnoster.net/compositions.htm
Quote from: Il Furioso on April 23, 2011, 11:40:23 PM
Yes, I did, they looked kind of tough. Have you recorded them yourself? Listening to me midi's, I really liked the contrast between the formal baroque like structures but very contemporary harmonies, but it would be great to hear them in all their glory.
Love your guitars, what strings are you playing with (look out, guitar nerd talk approaching). I play a Kantare I 500 cedar top with Aquila Ambra nylgut strings. The strings can be a bit unstable but I love the warm mellow tone. I went back to try some composites again recently (D'Addario EXP45C) and it felt like I was playing a harpisichord by comparison.
Time to get down to practice now, I'm ironing out bars 39 and 60 of Maximo Pujol's Preludio Triston. I'm meant to be painting the front door ???
Thank you. No, I can't play them! Well, if I quit my job and worked on them for eight hours a day, maybe in a year or so I could! :) I wrote "Sequentia Offertorium" for Antonio de Innocentis, and he plans to record it this year. Another young man (only 20) plans to give the US premiere of it in the fall. He's also playing Kurtz's I Giardini del Sogno--he's either insane or godly!
I'm down to one guitar, as I sold the Sebastian Stenzel two weeks ago. I'd like to try out a cedar double top to see what all the fuss is about! It might make a nice complement to my spruce Angella. I'm currently using D'Addario J 31rectified trebles and Savarez Cantiga basses. So far, so good!
Quote from: James on April 24, 2011, 06:55:44 AM
It is one of the greatest disappointments imo that the 'electric guitar' .. one of the most popular & versatile instruments of the 20th century hasn't been taken up by any major composers in a truly great way; I asked Boulez about this once and he admitted that there were players out there who could 'play' very well .. but they were not classically trained and that creates a huge barrier in communication.
Well, there is Tippett - his use of the instrument is controversial, and gives fire to those who like to accuse him of all sorts of nonsense, but he was really breaking new ground here, and he does so in typically brave, committed, ambitious ways. He had the same problem Boulez talked about, but once he'd found at least one player with both the technique and the classical training, the potential became real.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 24, 2011, 08:33:26 AM
www.johnoster.net/compositions.htm
Great, thanks! Having a look now...very interesting!
Quote from: James on April 24, 2011, 09:43:04 AM
Interesting I'll have to look for that one, I never realized that .. the earliest successful example I could think of in a truly monumental piece was within Stockhausen's Gruppen where the electric guitar gets some nifty bits that stand out. Steve Reich wrote Electric Counterpoint for jazz guitarist Pat Metheny which generates a complex, pulsating tapestry of sound from the interaction between the soloist and up to 12 taped parts. And Mark-Anthony Turnage has worked closely with American jazz guitarist John Scofield in shaping works such as Blood on the Floor & Scorched ..
There's a few others; Tristan Murail's Vampyr!, Laurence Crane has written at least a couple. I agree, though, the instrument has never realised its full potential in 'classical' art music.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 23, 2011, 06:39:19 AM
Also, I AM asking: How many SPECIFICALLY DIFFERENT percussive sounds can the Classical Guitar make? With the hands alone? I find four 'areas':
Before I forget, you really need to check out Scelsi's Ko-tha for his interesting take on extended technique, including percussion, on the guitar.
This thread got me a little fired up today, and seeing as I am having a fairly-happily fallow time compositionally at the moment, I thought I'd try my hand at a little arranging. I've had a very first attempt at guitar writing, and I've gone in at the deep end, with one of my quite complex piano pieces, but one which I think could make a nice guitar piece both stylistically and technically. Which is not to say that my arrangement will work, at all, but that I think an arrangement that worked could be made by someone who knew their way around a guitar.
The piece I've chosen is my sonata movement for piano written in 2007 - links to score and recordings are somewhere or other on my thread, and I'd upload them here if I could. But I'd like to get a guitarist's eye on what I've done so far, before I commit to doing more. I'm aware that some stretches may be tricky, and that some notes won't sustain as I've written them, but it would be good to know which are the worst areas in this respect (and any other respects too). Any other advice also gratefully accepted. Now, where can I post the thing!? I wish attachments were still working, they made life so easy.....!
Quote from: James on April 24, 2011, 06:55:44 AM
It is one of the greatest disappointments imo that the 'electric guitar' .. one of the most popular & versatile instruments of the 20th century hasn't been taken up by any major composers in a truly great way; I asked Boulez about this once and he admitted that there were players out there who could 'play' very well .. but they were not classically trained and that creates a huge barrier in communication.
If you got to talk to Boulez, that's pretty cool!
I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU
Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video). ;)
Quote from: Luke on April 24, 2011, 03:05:34 PM
This thread got me a little fired up today, and seeing as I am having a fairly-happily fallow time compositionally at the moment, I thought I'd try my hand at a little arranging. I've had a very first attempt at guitar writing, and I've gone in at the deep end, with one of my quite complex piano pieces, but one which I think could make a nice guitar piece both stylistically and technically. Which is not to say that my arrangement will work, at all, but that I think an arrangement that worked could be made by someone who knew their way around a guitar.
The piece I've chosen is my sonata movement for piano written in 2007 - links to score and recordings are somewhere or other on my thread, and I'd upload them here if I could. But I'd like to get a guitarist's eye on what I've done so far, before I commit to doing more. I'm aware that some stretches may be tricky, and that some notes won't sustain as I've written them, but it would be good to know which are the worst areas in this respect (and any other respects too). Any other advice also gratefully accepted. Now, where can I post the thing!? I wish attachments were still working, they made life so easy.....!
Nice! Please do, I'll pm you my e-mail
Thanks - have replied, and expect an email with my efforts so far in the next few minutes! :)
Quote from: Shrunk on April 24, 2011, 04:24:54 AM
My teacher has a recital for all his students at the end of the year. I'll be doing a transcription of Bach's Italian Concerto for two guitars. Jeez, it's next week! I better get off the computer and start practicing.
Good luck with that. I'll bet it makes for a nice transcription as I think the treble clef sits pretty much perfectly for the guitar throughout. There is talk (just talk at the moment) at 4 of us getting together to do a transcription of a Lawes consort piece for 4 guitars. I've never been a huge fan of 4 guitar ensembles so we'll have to see how that goes (so, no I don't have any LA guitar quartet CDs in my collection!!)
Quote from: Greg on April 24, 2011, 03:48:38 PM
I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU
Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video). ;)
Nice! And I wouldn't denigrate the music, either. It's not far removed from a lot of fast instrumental baroque music. You may dig this thread, btw, with Alexi Laiho and friend playing Vivaldi:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18349.msg505839.html#msg505839
Quote from: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 04:20:04 AM
Nice! And I wouldn't denigrate the music, either. It's not far removed from a lot of fast instrumental baroque music. You may dig this thread, btw, with Alexi Laiho and friend playing Vivaldi:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18349.msg505839.html#msg505839
Oh yeah, I watched that one. :)
Quote from: Greg on April 24, 2011, 03:48:38 PM
If you got to talk to Boulez, that's pretty cool!
I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU
Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video). ;)
Yes, this is typical shred stuff, which I dislike, but this is my own personal preference. My own playing is more concerned with harmonic color and texture than these types of shred licks, which I can perform, but playing fast for its own sake never really interested me. My approach is definitely more jazz-oriented than anything else.
Quote from: James on April 25, 2011, 07:38:25 AM
Sounds like Yngwie .. and that kind of Shrapnel metal shred guitar stuff that was all the rage in the 1980s.
Seems like you've got a little technique, but you need to find your own voice and breath a little lol
That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)
http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I
I dig that kind of shred: a lot in common with all the scalar patterns of baroque instrumental music.
Quote from: James on April 25, 2011, 02:11:52 PM
Ouch. Awful. Shred = mindless crap.
So what in particular is mindless about it? Why not take the piece I linked to and break it down for me.
Here's some earlier shred. Hold your ears :)
http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY
Quote from: James on April 25, 2011, 02:11:52 PM
Ouch. Awful. Shred = mindless crap.
That's twice today I agreed with James.
Quote from: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
So what in particular is mindless about it? Why not take the piece I linked to and break it down for me.
Here's some earlier shred. Hold your ears :)
http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY
I have no argument with the statement that Vivaldi is mindless crap.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 25, 2011, 02:36:44 PM
That's twice today I agreed with James.
Lie down and elevate your feet. The doctors will be in shortly ;)
Quote from: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 10:12:01 AM
That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)
http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I
I dig that kind of shred: a lot in common with all the scalar patterns of baroque instrumental music.
I dislike shred in general. Tony MacAlpine, while technically proficient, has no heart or soul. It's just one scale run after another at breakneck speed with no real purpose. There's no narrative in the music at all. It doesn't go anywhere.
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solely as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 25, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
I agree. These shredders are amusing for maybe a minute or two, but then they become quite tiresome. Most of them have no sense of dynamics, no interest in harmony, and their attention to rhythm is quite juvenile. They simply are making "music" to showcase themselves, which, for me, goes against everything that I believe music is about.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 25, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
Isn't that sort of the point of this particular type of shred? I find it endlessly entertaining. I'm always fascinated by how quickly they can get their fingers to move, no matter the notes that escape their instrument.
Quote from: Grazioso on April 25, 2011, 10:12:01 AM
That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)
I actually liked that a little- thanks for posting. Very similar to Vinnie Moore, another guitarist I like.
http://www.youtube.com/v/cCrxYTk-pBE
His best song, possibly, and one of my dad's favorite songs. It's very melodic and not as much "shred," but still...
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 03:27:35 PM
I dislike shred in general. Tony MacAlpine, while technically proficient, has no heart or soul. It's just one scale run after another at breakneck speed with no real purpose. There's no narrative in the music at all. It doesn't go anywhere.
I can kind of see the "no narrative" part. However, I don't know about heart and soul- I hear some.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 25, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
I only have one MAB CD, but I found the progressive aspect of it amusing enough to keep me listening. Some of his musical ideas are so quirky that they almost make me laugh. :D
Quote from: James on April 25, 2011, 07:38:25 AM
Sounds like Yngwie .. and that kind of Shrapnel metal shred guitar stuff that was all the rage in the 1980s.
Seems like you've got a little technique, but you need to find your own voice and breath a little lol
That's actually not my song lol (it's by Theodore Ziras). Often, when I pick up guitar and mess around, I play a completely different style from anyone else, probably because of my in-depth knowledge of Romantic-Modern classical music. I do stuff that's, um... not very typical for a guitarist to do, but I might have to upload a video so everyone has an idea of what I'm talking about. I just improvise for now, because the only thing I would really want to write for guitar would be for an ensemble of 8-strings (~8 or so), which would end up being just me writing the score and layering the tracks, but I don't have the type of guitar/equipment/time/money to do that right now.
Quote from: Philoctetes on April 25, 2011, 05:48:40 PM
Isn't that sort of the point of this particular type of shred? I find it endlessly entertaining. I'm always fascinated by how quickly they can get their fingers to move, no matter the notes that escape their instrument.
I've been playing the guitar for 20 years and there was a point where I wanted to be faster than anyone else, but ultimately this was a lost cause because 1. it wasn't what I was about on the guitar, 2. I simply wasn't ever going to be faster than a Shawn Lane or Allan Holdsworth, 3. I was only kidding myself, because I wanted to make a real connection to music and 4. all of the musicians I have played with care nothing about shred guitar, they simply wanted to make meaning music like I did. If somebody wants to lock themselves in a basement and learn how to run neoclassical licks all day long, then that's their prerogative, but, for me, I need to make music with other musicians. This is much more meaningful for me. In my own practice time, I try and work on songs or at least fragments of what could possibly be made into a song. I audition them to whoever I'm playing with and if it seems like a good idea, then we'll build off of it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 08:36:43 PM
I've been playing the guitar for 20 years and there was a point where I wanted to be faster than anyone else, but ultimately this was a lost cause because 1. it wasn't what I was about on the guitar, 2. I simply wasn't ever going to be faster than a Shawn Lane or Allan Holdsworth, 3. I was only kidding myself, because I wanted to make a real connection to music and 4. all of the musicians I have played with care nothing about shred guitar, they simply wanted to make meaning music like I did. If somebody wants to lock themselves in a basement and learn how to run neoclassical licks all day long, then that's their prerogative, but, for me, I need to make music with other musicians. This is much more meaningful for me. In my own practice time, I try and work on songs or at least fragments of what could possibly be made into a song. I audition them to whoever I'm playing with and if it seems like a good idea, then we'll build off of it.
An equally valid approach.
Those skills used in shred are just that: a skill set, no different in their way from the techniques Carmignola had to learn to blaze through Vivaldi like that. (His various albums with the Venice Baroque Orchestra are delightful, btw.) A musician can then put those skills to good music or bad. For my part, I find the more well-known Yngwie boring, despite his obvious and acknowledged indebtedness to classical music, but some of MacAlpine's stuff has heart and soul--and damn catchy melodies, like that one I posted. I was whistling that for the rest of the day--well, a simplified version :)
In the guitar community you often hear people creating an opposition between soulful playing (think David Gilmour) and the highly technical guys. For me, those are just different modes of expression, like moving from a baroque violin concerto presto to a lyrical second-movement adagio. There's room for all of it. But the only way you can do both is to develop a level of virtuosity, and I respect the skill and dedication required to reach those high levels.
Anyway, back to classical guitar and real guitar composing! ;D Nikita Koshkin has composed 24 Preludes and Fugues, which will published after his wife finishes recording them. Here she is playing two of them:
http://www.youtube.com/v/YDxYmhze5Do
http://www.youtube.com/v/0nUuvxGdLGk
Quote from: James on April 24, 2011, 09:43:04 AM
Interesting I'll have to look for that one, I never realized that .. the earliest successful example I could think of in a truly monumental piece was within Stockhausen's Gruppen where the electric guitar gets some nifty bits that stand out. Steve Reich wrote Electric Counterpoint for jazz guitarist Pat Metheny which generates a complex, pulsating tapestry of sound from the interaction between the soloist and up to 12 taped parts. And Mark-Anthony Turnage has worked closely with American jazz guitarist John Scofield in shaping works such as Blood on the Floor & Scorched ..
I hear some in Penderecki also.
Keep in mind that the electric guitar featured in many movies from the 60s-70s, where it played pseudo serial soundtrack groovy stuff. The cheaper the movie, the better the soundtrack! Woooah,... I'm gettin a Flashbaaaaack......
Quote from: Il Furioso on April 25, 2011, 12:32:52 AM
Good luck with that. I'll bet it makes for a nice transcription as I think the treble clef sits pretty much perfectly for the guitar throughout. There is talk (just talk at the moment) at 4 of us getting together to do a transcription of a Lawes consort piece for 4 guitars. I've never been a huge fan of 4 guitar ensembles so we'll have to see how that goes (so, no I don't have any LA guitar quartet CDs in my collection!!)
The cd 'New Music for Four Guitars' on NewWorld has at least two Masterpieces, one by Lejaren Hiller, and Stephen Funk's
Mummychogs. This piece is the be all and end all of Four Guitars, as far as I can see. I would like to see a couple more pieces so we could have a good recital: I too was concerned by the abundance of albums, but no interest on my part (LAGQ).
The Xenakis technique would work great on four Guitars.
He wrote a piece for Japanese instruments which he transcribed for flute and three guitars, and this piece (Nyuyo) is really impressive, I think. Very meditative too.
Toccata&Fugue and myself were discussing the 'tracking listing', for want of a better term, on Craig Ogden's latest recital. Latest gossip (sad gossip unfortunately) that I heard last night is that Craig has had his guitar (a Smallman, not cheap or easy to come by, they are not off the shelf) stolen in a scam. A player is invited to perform at a funeral. Before playing, the individual is asked to go and speak to the family. They leave their gear but there is no family/funeral and when they return their stuff is stolen. This is an elaborate scam targeting individuals with expensive instruments. Sucks.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 08:36:43 PM
I've been playing the guitar for 20 years...
:o Impressive! How old were you when you started as (if you don't mind me saying so) you didn't look much over 20 in the photo you posted in the what do you look like thread.
First play
Rodrigo Riera: Four Venezuelan Pieces (Universal Edition; Ed. John Duarte)
Riera studied with Segovia in the 1950's. These four pieces are relatively straight forward, probably about early intermediate level, with the first three forming a tryptich. With the names Melancholia, Monotonia, and Nostalgia these are short pieces dripping with pathos and crying out for vibrato overkill. I think I did overkill it a little as it all got a bit schmaltzy ;D. Still, with a little restraint, these are tender and loving pieces available to anyone beyond beginner and perfect for the end of a sunny day.
Here's the best of No.3 Nostalgia that I could find on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/v/VI_AMRYSuAc
World premiere tonight in my study, Sonata for Guitar by Luke Ottevanger :D
Quote from: Il Furioso on May 04, 2011, 07:31:20 AM
World premiere tonight in my study, Sonata for Guitar by Luke Ottevanger :D
Beauty! We want audio!
Quote from: Apollon on May 04, 2011, 07:32:37 AM
Beauty! We want audio!
Me, too!
(and the score, if possible, so I could play through it...)
Quote from: Apollon on May 04, 2011, 07:32:37 AM
Beauty! We want audio!
At this stage any audio might not be family friendly (my playing, not the music) ???
Ha! I hadn't seen this!
Yes, this is what I was referring to in the last post or two on my thread last week - reading through the first few posts of this thread reawakened my desire to write something for guitar. I absolutely love the instrument but have prctically zilch experience with it. Reading through contemporary scores has taught me most of what I know, but there's a difference between that and actually doing it myself.
Because of time constraints and my current composing no-flow I chose to arrange an old piano piece of mine which I thought might be suitable - the piano sonata movement I wrote in 2007; most of those of you who frequent my thread have heard it in its original incarnation. And yes, it does have a lot about it that speaks 'guitar', but in specifics, well, of course not - it was conceived of as a piano piece and even once it's thinned out and the lines reassigned there are still many, many issues!
So I'm really, really grateful to il Furioso for his super-generousness in helping me sort things out. I imagine that tonight he has been wrestling with all sorts of intractable, novice mistakes, poor guy. As I said to him few days ago, this feels like starting again and going back to school. No space for pride here!
Thanks for the interest! I think it may be quite a job that poor old Furioso has landed himself with, so it might take a bit of time for anything to be presentable here. The piano piece and score already exist on my thread, however (there's a link on the very first page, it's quite an old piece - Sonata 2007 is what you are looking for)
Quote from: James on May 05, 2011, 04:49:11 AM
The written instruction (score) is absolutely 100% useless to me as im nothing playing the thing .. but i'll try to dig up the link and give the music a listen when I get some time.
sorry, to clarify, the score and the mp3 are
both linked to on that page. The mp3 is a bit shoddy, but it'll do.
Bumpage on the guitar thread ;D
A bit of a mix of the Ottevanger guitar sonata and Frank Martin Quatre Pieces Breves at the moment but it's exam time so script marking is slowing me down :-[
How's the Ottevanger coming along (apart from the slowdown with the distractions)?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 19, 2011, 02:42:55 PM
How's the Ottevanger coming along (apart from the slowdown with the distractions)?
It's lovely music but I don't think Luke would mind if I said that adapting some parts for the guitar and maintaining its distinct harmonic and structural aspects are a challenge. Not insurmountable for sure but then I've got the easy part so I would say that ;)
I have one of these:
(http://www.drumza.com/images/FenderStandardStratocasterLeftHandedElectricGuitarBlackRosewoodFingerboard.jpg)
I wish I had time to play it. >:(
In terms of guitar, there are only a few guitarists that continue to inspire me to keep playing:
1. Bill Frisell
2. Eric Johnson
3. Dave Bainbridge
4. Shawn Lane
5. Pat Metheny
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 07, 2012, 07:25:10 PM
In terms of guitar, there are only a few guitarists that continue to inspire me to keep playing:
1. Bill Frisell
2. Eric Johnson
3. Dave Bainbridge
4. Shawn Lane
5. Pat Metheny
Reminding me that rock n roll/rock/whatever-you-call-it has ceased to inspire for a very long time now. Seems, where do you go after you've shredded everything to pieces? There's nothing left. I wonder what the "Last Guitar Solo" was? When? 1997? (I'm being generous, and clueless!!)
SurfsUP!!
Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2012, 09:27:13 PM
Seems, where do you go after you've shredded everything to pieces? There's nothing left.
You go to the Presto from Koyunbaba :)
Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2012, 09:27:13 PM
Seems, where do you go after you've shredded everything to pieces? There's nothing left.
Easy- when you play guitar, simply play something that hasn't been done before.
Do we have any spectral guitar pieces (for CG)?
Also, I just started looking into flamenco on YT last night. Any flamenco insights from a Modern Classical perspective? I'm aware that Murail's Tellur fulfills (sort of) both topics here, but I'm looking for something else.
Also, I'm wondering about those such like Elliott Sharp (mainly), and Arthur Kampela (to a lesser degree) who do a lot of eight hand slapping, and double handed fret work (I think Sharp uses a steel string though; it's not real to do Van Halen on a CG,... is it :o???). This stuff seems very impressive right at first, but then it's like, meh, I don'r HAVE to play like that to impress; if there's something there that I can use, great, but my whole piece isn't going to be just one technique.
I keep asking, Exactly how many distinct percussive sounds/effects can the guitar produce? I'm getting less then 10.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 10, 2012, 08:17:18 PM
Do we have any spectral guitar pieces (for CG)?
I keep asking, Exactly how many distinct percussive sounds/effects can the guitar produce? I'm getting less then 10.
Tellur is the only one I know of also.
And, dude, are you still whacking your guitar? ;)
Quote from: Il Furioso on March 11, 2012, 10:53:25 AM
Tellur is the only one I know of also.
And, dude, are you still whacking your guitar? ;)
There's actually some very interesting 'percussive' guitar videos on YT. I think I learned a little.
Though there are many ways to make a percussive sound with the guitar, I think from the audiences point of view, just a few easily ID'd thumps and taps and clicks would do it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKh4lWFSeY
It's cheesy, but I can apply this to my piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTFPV6uchs
What do you think of this? It strives for some of the same sounds I'm looking for. The piece itself is ok, but it seems to get a little better towards the end.
Nik Didkovsky. Pretty impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tkrwB-QDI
Quote from: snyprrr on March 14, 2012, 08:43:05 PM
Nik Didkovsky. Pretty impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tkrwB-QDI
Don't care much for the piece but Kevin Gallagher is a pretty good player. His Naxos recital is top draw, beautiful repertoire.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 14, 2012, 08:41:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTFPV6uchs
What do you think of this? It strives for some of the same sounds I'm looking for. The piece itself is ok, but it seems to get a little better towards the end.
Like you I'm not overly enamoured of the piece but the timbre of the prepared guitar is good. Certainly possibilities there.
THE PREPARED GUITAR: An Overview
What are our options? In the video of Nadir, it says in the comments that the guitarist is using paperclips on the first three strings. I failed in getting mine to stay in the string! ::)
What are your preparations? Any classics?
In a Kampela video, he uses a spoon on the bridge (of a CG) to get a wah-wah effect! It's only on one note at a time, but it's very impressive, like a sick brass plunger.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 10, 2012, 08:17:18 PM
Do we have any spectral guitar pieces (for CG)?
Also, I just started looking into flamenco on YT last night. Any flamenco insights from a Modern Classical perspective? I'm aware that Murail's Tellur fulfills (sort of) both topics here, but I'm looking for something else.
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 26, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
That's just awful. What garbage.
Did I mention Vampyr! on this thread?
http://www.youtube.com/v/4kshdlU2hD8
I don't think it's a great piece, but it's probably the only electric guitar spectral piece you'll find.
Quote from: Greg on April 27, 2012, 05:50:37 AM
Did I mention Vampyr! on this thread?
http://www.youtube.com/v/4kshdlU2hD8
I don't think it's a great piece, but it's probably the only electric guitar spectral piece you'll find.
Sounds like mindless noodling.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 26, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
That's wicked. It has a very Eastern like quality to it. Thanks for posting that. :)
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 26, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
Not my bag. Just buy a drum kit. I would be interested to know if there is an underlying structure whereby the different gestures correspond to a larger musical argument. That would be far more interesting than a purely "hey look at the extended technique I can write for a guitar".
I'm just starting to play Bach 'Prelude, Fugue, and Allegro' BWV 998. Can anyone recommend a preferred transcription for CG. I am starting with Hector Quine's from OUP. I also have Willard for comparison who I have found pretty reliable in the lute suites (well the bits I have played).
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 26, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
OK, I made it half way through! ;) ;D
I have heard OF Riehm's
Lamento di Tristan for 2 guitars, but thank you, you found a video of me practicing, haha!! :P
I'm sorry, but I loooooves :-* me SOME of this stuff:
1) The Player: his name starts with an 'O'? I've seen his pic on cd covers,... of Norgard?, and one with Donatoni, Lachenmann, and Murail, so, he's certainly 'into' this stuff. Love the fingernails; he seems like a heavy weight good guy to me.
2) The Acoustic: obviously very nice and spacious, but for this piece it's the death knell. Why wouldn't this REQUIRE a tighter acoustic? I mean, just look at all the different sounds he's producing, but HEAR the mush that hits your ears: every sound is turned into what sounds like 5 seconds of reverb. For MY piece, this would be ideal, but not here; so much time wasted practicing when so much is lost in the auditorium.
3) The Approach: obviously the Lachenmann piece is the go to here (I have the original ColLegno; must re-study,... awesome booklet with LOTS of technique photos!). This makes me want to 'place' it,... we have Scelsi, Hespos, Lachenmann, now Riehm, Kampela, Sharp,... I'm going to work up a Post on the History of Avant Guitar, maybe?... I really liked this piece, but of course, 'Accountants Love Accounting', so, of course I'm just 'watching' what he's doing for my own ends, my own purposes, not for any purpose of instilling upon Riehm accolades,... in my view he's just a worker bee like all of us, studying, exploring,... waiting for the true Masterpiece to reveal itself. Here, of course, we seem just to have a string of effects,... was there ONE straight note?,...without, at least, Lachenmann's humor (with the vocalizing),...
Still, I'm going to HAVE to study this,... it seems like a looooot of effort to have so much lost in the ether,... are the different sounds REALLY that different?,... should we just not pretend that EVERY sound is so individual that only a philistine couldn't tell the difference?
Hey, the piece is provocative in at least it forces one to confront the issue of what's...mm... pragmatic?,... and what's just utopian navel gazing...
4) The Length: I really thought something needed to happen at a certain point.
Xenakis would usually always switch gears... usually each piece had 7 parts ...mm... it may be going on too long, but hey, it's NOT 20 minutes!! ;)
I'm gonna cut Riehm some slack here. I know there's a whole cd of just his guitar music. Is this the only piece you've heard? Elliott Sharp's acoustic juggernauts can be equally '_____' inducing,... I'm just rambling now, haha :-[...
EXCELLENT!! Thanks for getting the juice squeezed! ;) 8)
I need one of you guys to run some things by in private PM, concerning this guitar piece I'm working on. Please, whoever has time and inclination. Thanks.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2012, 11:04:44 AM
I need one of you guys to run some things by in private PM, concerning this guitar piece I'm working on. Please, whoever has time and inclination. Thanks.
Just PM me and I'll explain. Thanks again.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2012, 11:05:20 AM
Just PM me and I'll explain. Thanks again.
It's Finals at the moment and I'm up to my eyeballs but maybe in a months time. Sorry!
Quote from: Il Furioso on May 17, 2012, 02:20:48 AM
It's Finals at the moment and I'm up to my eyeballs but maybe in a months time. Sorry!
Cool,... where's Greg?
Greg?
I need a Classical Guitar forum. Anyone? I looked, but wasn't really satisfied with what I found.
Delcamp is good--has its share of idiots, though, and it's very heavily moderated.
http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/index.php
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on May 26, 2012, 07:42:57 AM
Delcamp is good--has its share of idiots, though, and it's very heavily moderated.
http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/index.php
I used to go there years ago and it was a lot more relaxed and didn't have quite so many subforums. It did get to be a bit too much "Bream versus Williams vote for your favourite!!1!!1!" so I stopped. Haven't been there in ages now.
How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:
0
0
0
0
6
1
What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.
I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.
Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:
14 15
X X
X X
X X
X X
2 3
You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:
You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? ??? Ahhhhhhh.....
Anyhow, that's enough for now.
I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! ;D (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!
I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 17, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:
0
0
0
0
6
1
What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.
I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.
Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:
14 15
X X
X X
X X
X X
2 3
You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:
You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? ??? Ahhhhhhh.....
Anyhow, that's enough for now.
I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! ;D (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!
I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 26, 2012, 09:18:26 PM
That's just awful. What garbage.
Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 17, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:
0
0
0
0
6
1
What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.
I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.
Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:
14 15
X X
X X
X X
X X
2 3
You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:
You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? ??? Ahhhhhhh.....
Anyhow, that's enough for now.
I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! ;D (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!
I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?
I can play the chord easily.
As far as two distinct melodies sounding apart from 3 octaves, the second half of Toccata Orpheus is based upon the expansion of a motif structured on this idea. It is possible, and once you acquire the proper physical technique it is not difficult. The bass notes can be played with the thumb of the left hand while the left hand also simultaneously plucks the treble melody. Unusual, but certainly not impossible.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about the high click note...I don't appear to get any high pitch clicking unless it is intentional.
Personally, I prefer multiple staves. Ultimately, it depends on the particular passage and how that musical event could best be represented via notation.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'd be very interested in a piece that is "barely playable"!
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on June 20, 2012, 03:50:49 PM
Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.
Because it doesn't rise beyond the experimental nor does it reveal any kind of beauty whatsoever. There's a reason composers like Murail only appeal to a small group of people. I think they compose sonic experiments just for the sake of it instead of creating music from their heart. All of this is, of course, just my opinion.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 17, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:
0
0
0
0
6
1
Ha! I've never tried that one before. Actually sounds quite nice.
This chord should definitely be used in isolation; otherwise, if given to someone else to play, expect your score to become future toilet paper.
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on June 20, 2012, 03:50:49 PM
Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.
I can play the chord easily.
As far as two distinct melodies sounding apart from 3 octaves, the second half of Toccata Orpheus is based upon the expansion of a motif structured on this idea. It is possible, and once you acquire the proper physical technique it is not difficult. The bass notes can be played with the thumb of the left hand while the left hand also simultaneously plucks the treble melody. Unusual, but certainly not impossible.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about the high click note...I don't appear to get any high pitch clicking unless it is intentional.
Personally, I prefer multiple staves. Ultimately, it depends on the particular passage and how that musical event could best be represented via notation.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'd be very interested in a piece that is "barely playable"!
Quote from: Greg on June 21, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
Ha! I've never tried that one before. Actually sounds quite nice.
This chord should definitely be used in isolation; otherwise, if given to someone else to play, expect your score to become future toilet paper.
Thanks guys. The way you guys are talking, I should include some of the more finger pretzel chords that I don't particularly want to do. That one was:
X
X
X
0
6
1
not, all the notes (my bad),... but, well, thanks for the word Greg!
Here's a Xenakis chord for sure:
0
6
8
0
4
0
btw- Mr. Barlow guy, there's a Barlow guitar piece on YT that's full of harmonics! Is that a drone in the background? Tape + guitar?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2012, 07:18:46 PM
Thanks guys. The way you guys are talking, I should include some of the more finger pretzel chords that I don't particularly want to do. That one was:
X
X
X
0
6
1
not, all the notes (my bad),... but, well, thanks for the word Greg!
Here's a Xenakis chord for sure:
0
6
8
0
4
0
btw- Mr. Barlow guy, there's a Barlow guitar piece on YT that's full of harmonics! Is that a drone in the background? Tape + guitar?
Cool chord and very playable. I'd say to write whatever you want and not worry about difficulty. As long as you avoid any outright impossible passages!
Until... Version 7 is the name. I'm not a big fan of the piece. In general, Barlow is not one of my favorite composers. Cogluotobusisletmesi is one of my favorite pieces of music ever though.
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on June 22, 2012, 09:10:11 PM
Cool chord and very playable. I'd say to write whatever you want and not worry about difficulty. As long as you avoid any outright impossible passages!
Until... Version 7 is the name. I'm not a big fan of the piece. In general, Barlow is not one of my favorite composers. Cogluotobusisletmesi is one of my favorite pieces of music ever though.
ok, you just got points in my book, haha. ;) I didn't think the idea matched the length, but, I must admit that one of my all time favorite sounds is that kind of endless guitar harmonics thing. But I will return to the piano piece,... an obvious find.
As to the 'impossible' playing,... I was very humbled since I wrote that,... of course, probably anything can be MADE impossible simply by tweaking things here and there, so, I 'know' that that's not the route to go. But, Extreme Difficulty seems to be
de rigueur in the Modern Classical Guitar World (if Classical Guitarists are anything like their electric cousins!), and so I do feel the need to... I don't know, is there a hint of S&M here?,... the NEED for
in extremis. I think it's just what you said: If "I" think it's too much, someone will surely toss it off like butter?
ok, here's a chord I'm using that I'm considering pretty difficult to execute cleanly:
1) first the easy part:
X
X*(a)
X
X*(b)
1
0
2) Now, on *(a), play the harmonic right before the fourth fret, which sounds as a D#.
3) Now, on *(b), play the harmonic right after the second fret, which sounds as a very high D.
Now play all four notes in perfect relation, as loud as possible without overpowering the weaker notes. Perhaps, because... sigh... I... yes, bite my nails to the quick, I have no idea how perhaps a normal person might view these things with ease. But I do find bringing out the 'side-of-the-pick' harmonics difficult on the CG.
I've been working on this Section A for the last week. I now have about five strings of 'pearls' that I have to somehow conjoin,... but I'm running out of 'glue' chords,... and I still haven't 'seen' exactly how it will link to Section B, though I'm certainly much closer than I was... uh,... a year ago! :-[
This has elements of my piece, but run through a cheese grater. Dig the comments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxC9rfnDB0
Frankly, judging by many of the YT videos I've seen recently, the CG is a horrible horrible sounding instrument and needs severe help! Most of this has to do, it seems, with a) the actual 'video' recording (which, please,... these things are so horrible as to make one weep), and b), the venue the recording takes place. Practically every 'auditorium audition' is a complete washout,... how can the audience enjoy what sounds like mush? How can guitarists PLAY??, when it all leads up to an audition washout?
My piece, for one, will employ solid dynamics throughout. I mean, something has to be thrown out the window here, no? What really gets me on these recordings is when the guitarist is going to show us his sotto voce,.. aye! >:D I see your fingers moving buddy!!
Another thing my piece will have is... one note after another,... none of this, what sounds like apparent noodling, like our friend in the video here. Play a little, stop. Play a little, stop. No,... sorry. That sounds too much like everything I've heard my whole life. I would much more appreciate something like Feldman at triple speed: at least then you're forced to keep playing... something! I'd rather hear the guitar than silence.
Like, our friend in the video does some gilssandi, but in no context. They are wasted in the sea of dis-apprehension. If you're going to use sounds, didn't Xenakis teach that they should be organized? My best example of this 'dis-apprehension' music is Berio's String Quartet 'Sincronie' (1963), WHICH IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE GUITAR PIECE IN THE VIDEO IN THAT IT IS ALWAYS START (WHoops....) always stopping something and starting something new. Perhaps the exact opposite of this is Xenakis's String Quartet 'ST-4' (1962), which is 'Sincronie' organized, really,... for the sake of MY argument, haha!
Anyhow, I rant...
All I know is, my piece WILL be Original! I'm thinking that at least it will 'look' interesting enough for one to WANT to play it. I WANT you to like me, haha! ;) 8)
What does everyone think of this 'new' style which has evolved since the '80s?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ_JHaSF-D8
There's other videos in the margin. I would say 'obviously' it HAS to be a steel string, so, should we even discuss here? 'Classically', wouldn't steel string guitars belong in the 'Mandolin Thread'?
But, I am still very interested in the 'drumming' aspects of the CG.
Question: What is the highest sound produced by a CG?
I'm gonna say the very high 'E' (in quotes) on the high E-string between the peg and the nut. Anything higher seems irrelevant.
Oh wait! When you slide your finger very quickly along the D-string, without fretting,... the faster you slide, the higher the sound,... to the point that it sounds almost equal to the former.
How easy is this for you to play on CG?:
0
3
5
0
7
8
I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands?? :'( :'(
This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ::)...
Quote from: snyprrr on July 09, 2012, 05:46:20 PM
How easy is this for you to play on CG?:
0
3
5
0
7
8
I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands?? :'( :'(
This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ::)...
Also, is this chord playable?:
18
11
3
3
1
1
Please! Please! :o
The first chord is playable, but given the context may be pretty impractical. The second chord is for the most part unplayable. I can arpeggiate it at best, but it is extremely difficult and requires some extended technique. I can't find a way to play all the notes of the chord at once.
I'll try again tomorrow, perhaps I'm just too tired right now.
Hope that helps!
Quote from: snyprrr on July 09, 2012, 05:46:20 PM
How easy is this for you to play on CG?:
0
3
5
0
7
8
I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands?? :'( :'(
This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ::)...
This change would make it considerably easier:
0 -> 0
3 -> 3
5 -> 5
0 -> 0
7 -> 3
8 -> 0
The other one looks quite unplayable, but I haven't played too much recently.
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on July 10, 2012, 01:56:23 AM
The first chord is playable, but given the context may be pretty impractical. The second chord is for the most part unplayable. I can arpeggiate it at best, but it is extremely difficult and requires some extended technique. I can't find a way to play all the notes of the chord at once.
I'll try again tomorrow, perhaps I'm just too tired right now.
Hope that helps!
Quote from: North Star on July 10, 2012, 03:04:51 AM
This change would make it considerably easier:
0 -> 0
3 -> 3
5 -> 5
0 -> 0
7 -> 3
8 -> 0
The other one looks quite unplayable, but I haven't played too much recently.
Thanks guys. That big 'A#/Bb' chord WOULD be a nice one. I tried holding down the two top notes and.... aye, no, haha,... oy, yea, that's just aggravating isn't it. Would it work as an 'A'?,...
I really hope I'll have something to show one day, aye. :'(
Quote from: snyprrr on July 10, 2012, 07:10:10 AM
Thanks guys. That big 'A#/Bb' chord WOULD be a nice one. I tried holding down the two top notes and.... aye, no, haha,... oy, yea, that's just aggravating isn't it. Would it work as an 'A'?,...
I really hope I'll have something to show one day, aye. :'(
Shifting it down to A just makes the huge stretch even bigger, and the advantage of the open strings is negligible. :(
Quote from: North Star on July 10, 2012, 08:07:40 AM
Shifting it down to A just makes the huge stretch even bigger, and the advantage of the open strings is negligible. :(
Today this giant A# chord looks ridiculous to me. Am I just being cranky, or is it hard to make...mm... Power Chords on the CG? I mean, one of my all-time favorite chords is the one I call the 'Beethoven Octave' chord:
12
0
9
9
7
0
The one for 'A' seems harder to pin down. I don't really like any of these:
5 12 mm... maybe this one: 17
5 10 17
2 9 14
2 7 14
0 0 (7) 0
0 0 12 That's a pretty well balanced 'A' chord, no?
Though, this has a nice fuzzy sound. Go back and forth:
X X
X X
0 0
5 3
5 3
3 1
The 'low, with the 'open'. I mean, I know it's obvious, but,... oo oo, NOW the 'point' comes to me. What I'm getting at is that we're all sooo familiar with the electric guitar making Power Chords with amps and distortion, but, 4ths and 5ths themselves ARE the components that give that 'buzzy' sound, especially when you incorporated both fretted and open strings. Now I'm speaking of the CG, which, as I'm exploring, could very well be mined for its own particular brand of 'Metal' characteristics.
It seems very much harder on the CG though, because, pretty much, as you go up the neck you lose some low end 'badness',... though, of course, new strings help,...
Ramble Mode: ON
Ramble Mode: OFF
yeesh, haha ;)
I mean, the low-E note is the 'baddest' note we have,...mm? Maybe F#? What's the 'blackest' piece for CG anyone knows?
Quote from: James on July 13, 2012, 09:09:56 AM
The Electric Guitar Part for Stockhausen's Gruppen (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3533.msg641012.html#msg641012)
Maybe some of you guys (snyprr etc.) would like to shed on this .. it's always good to dig deep into 'the masters' to really learn.
The review lady isn't going just... a little overboard? Is there, what, two minutes cumulative? I was listening today,... I mean,... frankly, I'd liked to have heard a KS guitar piece, proper. But. I'm not seeing the Guitar Composer the reviewer is,... meaning, I don't see KS being all that interested in it (I'm not saying about the guitar part,... I like that just fine in
Gruppen). No one from that generation really cared enough about the electric guitar.
Quote from: James on July 15, 2012, 04:52:22 AM
It's a marvellous guitar part in isolation .. dig into the score and get it under your fingers. If you want her arrangement, let me know.
Sure!!! ;)
ok guys
What is the possibility of doing 'tympani' glissandi rolls on the low 'E' string, with a very low dynamic, rolling very very fast on the right hand (shaking between the thumb and ring finger?), ever so lightly, as you slowly/quickly, something like this (and I'm being sloppy):
EEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFF#F#F#FFFEEEEEEEEEEFFFFF#F#F#GGF#F#FFFEEEEEEFFFF#F#GGG#G#GF#F#FFFEEEEEEEEEEEE
First off, do you know what I'm saying?
This is the best I can come up with for a truly chromatic chord. I don't know if I like the way it sounds. Wh@t do you think?:
0
0
8
11
15
10
(Yea, it's a pain, too! :()
This piece I've been working on is just becoming more and more monstrous. :'( The final form is pretty well clear, but this middle section (how to get from the very beginning, to the 'link-up') is... well,... sigh,...
we're gettin' there,... git'er done, as they say ???...
Quote from: snyprrr on July 31, 2012, 09:05:10 AM
This is the best I can come up with for a truly chromatic chord. I don't know if I like the way it sounds. Wh@t do you think?:
0
0
8
11
15
10
(Yea, it's a pain, too! :()
This piece I've been working on is just becoming more and more monstrous. :'( The final form is pretty well clear, but this middle section (how to get from the very beginning, to the 'link-up') is... well,... sigh,...
we're gettin' there,... git'er done, as they say ???...
Aye! :o, have ye abandoned me? :'(
Quote from: snyprrr on July 31, 2012, 09:05:10 AM
This is the best I can come up with for a truly chromatic chord. I don't know if I like the way it sounds. Wh@t do you think?:
0
0
8
11
15
10
(Yea, it's a pain, too! :()
This piece I've been working on is just becoming more and more monstrous. :'( The final form is pretty well clear, but this middle section (how to get from the very beginning, to the 'link-up') is... well,... sigh,...
we're gettin' there,... git'er done, as they say ???...
It is playable, but only if you play the A-string C with the right hand, and it can't be played too loud. Someone with a huge hand should reach it with the pinkie, though.
Quote from: North Star on August 06, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
It is playable, but only if you play the A-string C with the right hand, and it can't be played too loud. Someone with a huge hand should reach it with the pinkie, though.
I don't have huge hands, but I have done horrible things with them, so I can barely play the thing with the left hand, but, your right hand for the 'C' is perfect. Thanks!
I can play the chord without fingering anything with my right hand. I don't think my hands are particularly large.
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on August 06, 2012, 11:59:25 PM
I can play the chord without fingering anything with my right hand. I don't think my hands are particularly large.
Well, it's really just that my pinkie is short. No real need for genuinely huge hands.
Quote from: Cogluotobusisletmesi on August 06, 2012, 11:59:25 PM
I can play the chord without fingering anything with my right hand. I don't think my hands are particularly large.
Technically, the 'D' note should be up an octave for a true chromatic chord, but,...
What do you think of its sound? I don't like it and I can't seem to find a function for it in my piece (which is basically built on chords 'like' this). It's just TOO loose and open sounding, or not micro-chromatic enough (can't do on a guitar without re-tuning), or something,...
This chord here is quite the perfection of what I'm doing here. Compare to the previous one and see that this one seems like it's going places, whereas the chromatic one feels kind of limp:
0
7
10
0
6
9
AHHHHHHH, just broke a string!! >:D That's still my copyrighted chord 8), haha ;D, grrrr >:D,...
I guess this is where I start the 'Your Favorite Guitar Strings' Thread?
Can we play this?:
5
5
2
7
0
5
My high 'E' string has popped. It's still Ben Gay inducing for me. :( These 'stretchy' chords (which comprise a good portion of my piece) are torturous for me.
I am SOOOOO strung out on this piece I can't tell you. But I'm always making progress,... but I get in these microscopic rabbit holes and I think I need to pull out and take a few macro looks at it.
OK, done. Back to the obsessive-compulsive! ;D
Quote from: snyprrr on August 12, 2012, 02:26:12 PM
Can we play this?:
5
5
2
7
0
5
The higher a is already played on the D-string, so muting G-string shouldn't change the chord too much?
5
5
X
7
0
5
Quote from: North Star on August 12, 2012, 02:56:43 PM
The higher a is already played on the D-string, so muting G-string shouldn't change the chord too much?
5
5
X
7
0
5
Mm.. the two 'A's were assumed, since I was shooting for SIX 'A's. The 'E' is the sacrificial note. I really meant"
5
X
2
7
0
5
Anyhow, I'm rapidly reaching an epiphany and loosing my marbles at the same time, uh boy! ::)
work work work
Haha, I'm suuure I'm pressing my luck here on this Thread, what with all the annoying Posts, but, hey, why not?
What do you think of these 'E; chords? Are there better ones?:
0 This is the darkest one I can come up with. I like it better than: 0 This one sounds drab to me.
0 0
4 4
2 2
7 2 (instead of 7)
0 0
0 (or 12) The (0,0) one is pretty standard, not THE most exciting, and the (12,12) has a good balance.
0 (or 12)
9
9
7
0
19 This one seems very balanced too. I like this one.
17
16
14
14
0
I'm having trouble playing this chord, but only because I have no fingernails. How does this sound to you?:
X
X
0
0
11
1
Yes, you'll be playing the G# with your right hand, whilst plucking all four strings at the same time. It's tricky with no fingernails. Is it easy for you? (I'm hoping so)
Quote from: snyprrr on August 21, 2012, 07:53:07 AM
I'm having trouble playing this chord, but only because I have no fingernails. How does this sound to you?:
X
X
0
0
11
1
Yes, you'll be playing the G# with your right hand, whilst plucking all four strings at the same time. It's tricky with no fingernails. Is it easy for you? (I'm hoping so)
The hardest part of that chord is hearing the G# over the two open strings. The only way to balance the sound of the notes between the chord is to play the two open notes with your LH ring finger (while muting the two top open string with your LH pinky).
Quote from: Greg on August 21, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
The hardest part of that chord is hearing the G# over the two open strings. The only way to balance the sound of the notes between the chord is to play the two open notes with your LH ring finger (while muting the two top open string with your LH pinky).
Very expert, Greg, bravo! 8) I'll try it in the morning.
I'd like to play each open string with a different finger,... I can't play now, 'shhh' time,...
I'm so impressed with your 'crane' technique, haha! Go tell your master! 8)
How feasible is this?:
E- play the natural harmonic 'G#' just below the 4th fret
B- play the natural harmonic 'F#' just after the 3rd fret (the very high sounding one, not the one @7th fret)
G- play the natural harmonic 'G' between the 2nd and 3rd frets (very difficult to produce cleanly)
D- play the natural harmonic 'F#' just below the 4th fret
A- X
E- 3 ('G')
I am convinced the greatest guitarist in the world could pull it off. Well, I'm actually hoping it's not as difficult for you as it is for me. I really want to use it.
Quote from: Greg on August 21, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
The hardest part of that chord is hearing the G# over the two open strings. The only way to balance the sound of the notes between the chord is to play the two open notes with your LH ring finger (while muting the two top open string with your LH pinky).
I've been enjoying your advice here, but I just got pissed and found this solution: just do it overhand, haha!! With your LH over the fretboard, simply place pointer and index fingers on 'A' string 5 ('D'note) and 'D' string 6 ('G#'note), respectively, and then streeeeeeeeeeetch your thumb all the way up to the 'F' on the low 'E'. Yes, it's not that much fun, but I have much better balance control in terms of dynamics.
oy!
Quote from: snyprrr on August 21, 2012, 07:53:07 AM
I'm having trouble playing this chord, but only because I have no fingernails. How does this sound to you?:
X
X
0
0
11
1
Yes, you'll be playing the G# with your right hand, whilst plucking all four strings at the same time. It's tricky with no fingernails. Is it easy for you? (I'm hoping so)
How about arpeggiating it, f - a - d - g# sounds nice to me.
Quote from: North Star on September 01, 2012, 06:03:25 AM
How about arpeggiating it, f - a - d - g# sounds nice to me.
No,... but,... :o :o :o,... that's brilliant!! :-*,... that's the one shape in the first position that hadn't occurred to me. I was hung up on this Bb7 chord that just sounded too obvious:
f-
Bb-d-g#
but here, you just switched to the 'a', and poof, what a radically different sound. Sorry, I'm taking it!! ;) Yes, I think that may actually be the lost chord I have been needing. Aye, blindness, blindness!! ::)
That first position can be wondrous. And also a lot of interesting things happen between frets 9-13,... uh,... nevermind,... there are LOTS of interesting places on the fretboard! ;D
I'm still stuck on the passage between these two chords:
No.1:
X
0 optional
8
8
9
0
and No.2:
X
0
3
2
4
0
I could play them one after another, but I have cleaved them and am working on a passage between them, but I'm getting very indulgent, and savoring the process too much. I can see where some people want to constantly revise, and never get anything done. Hmm. :(
The chord that you were referencing is the chord that is supposed to go right before chord No.2. I'm trying to work backwards, and it's hard for me to musically think backwards like that.
Painting oneself into a corner, haha?!
How easy is it for you to play a simple open harmonic (especially on the treble strings; take g-string 7th-fret 'd' harmonic,... so that you hear both the lower 'g' and the higher 'd')?
I know the low strings work well...
Quote from: snyprrr on September 01, 2012, 08:34:40 AM
No,... but,... :o :o :o,... that's brilliant!! :-*,... that's the one shape in the first position that hadn't occurred to me. I was hung up on this Bb7 chord that just sounded too obvious:
f-Bb-d-g#
but here, you just switched to the 'a', and poof, what a radically different sound. Sorry, I'm taking it!! ;) Yes, I think that may actually be the lost chord I have been needing. Aye, blindness, blindness!! ::)
That first position can be wondrous. And also a lot of interesting things happen between frets 9-13,... uh,... nevermind,... there are LOTS of interesting places on the fretboard! ;D
I'm still stuck on the passage between these two chords:
No.1:
X
0 optional
8
8
9
0
and No.2:
X
0
3
2
4
0
I could play them one after another, but I have cleaved them and am working on a passage between them, but I'm getting very indulgent, and savoring the process too much. I can see where some people want to constantly revise, and never get anything done. Hmm. :(
The chord that you were referencing is the chord that is supposed to go right before chord No.2. I'm trying to work backwards, and it's hard for me to musically think backwards like that.
Painting oneself into a corner, haha?!
Steal it, by all means.
Playing the chords in the order you said works pretty well - of course some fine tuning may make it even better.
And regarding the chord, how about playing
X
X
12
12
11
13
?
Quote from: North Star on September 03, 2012, 02:25:28 PM
And regarding the chord, how about playing
X
X
12
12
11
13
?
I'm already using that one! ;) It's a good 'glue' chord, not to 'this', not to 'that'.
Here's a chord shape I'm desperately trying to avoid:
X
1
0
1
0
(0) optional
but it may be useful yet!
work work work
Can I play these two chords one after another,... do they sound different enough to you, or, is it the SAME chord (sound wise)?:
X
2
0
6
6
6
X
X
6
6
10
6
I hear a slight upwardness, just enough to distinguish the two. Also, the open 'g' lends the first chord a more 'live' countenance, whereas the second one has quite the thud. I hesitate to give the two chords surrounding these two, but I don't think they're necessary to the 'problem'.
Quote from: snyprrr on September 09, 2012, 09:38:43 AM
Can I play these two chords one after another,... do they sound different enough to you, or, is it the SAME chord (sound wise)?:
X
2
0
6
6
6
X
X
6
6
10
6
I hear a slight upwardness, just enough to distinguish the two. Also, the open 'g' lends the first chord a more 'live' countenance, whereas the second one has quite the thud. I hesitate to give the two chords surrounding these two, but I don't think they're necessary to the 'problem'.
Well, I guess I answered my question. In the first chord, the open 'g' seems to take prominence, but in the second chord one is able to bring out the 'g#' more, so, they do 'sound' different.
What ARE 'p', 'mf', and 'f' in practical guitar playing terms? If I just strum any simple chord like I am now, like any guitar player would if they were asked to just strum a chord,... is that 'mf'??,... "middle of the road"??
Is 'mf' the 'standard', or most medium, default setting, or is it 'f'?
As I play it, a 'standard' strum, one without any particular 'strength' to it, I would put down as 'mf', and if I strum WITH 'strength', then it's an 'f'. Yes?
How many, practical, levels of dynamic should I really use? One in the middle and three on either side? Ahhh, this is getting to me. ???
Quote from: snyprrr on September 09, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
What ARE 'p', 'mf', and 'f' in practical guitar playing terms? If I just strum any simple chord like I am now, like any guitar player would if they were asked to just strum a chord,... is that 'mf'??,... "middle of the road"??
Is 'mf' the 'standard', or most medium, default setting, or is it 'f'?
As I play it, a 'standard' strum, one without any particular 'strength' to it, I would put down as 'mf', and if I strum WITH 'strength', then it's an 'f'. Yes?
I found a few charts.
How many, practical, levels of dynamic should I really use? One in the middle and three on either side? Ahhh, this is getting to me. ???
How easy, or difficult, is it for you to play an open note, and one of its natural harmonics, at the same time? It seems to me that this is a bit of a finesse job, especially in chords, say,
X
X
X
0 + harmonic at 7th fret
7
5
In the mush of the chord, I can't necessarily hear everything as four notes. If I added another note, would I even hear the effect? Is it just a subtle thing to add the feeling of density?
Either way, the idea of playing two notes per string is tempting.
Quote from: snyprrr on September 26, 2012, 10:00:14 PM
How easy, or difficult, is it for you to play an open note, and one of its natural harmonics, at the same time? It seems to me that this is a bit of a finesse job, especially in chords, say,
X
X
X
0 + harmonic at 7th fret
7
5
In the mush of the chord, I can't necessarily hear everything as four notes. If I added another note, would I even hear the effect? Is it just a subtle thing to add the feeling of density?
Either way, the idea of playing two notes per string is tempting.
How did this Thread make it to the top without a Post? ??? Huh. I'd still like to know how you feel about the above question.
That seems to work for me, but I wouldn't add anything to it.
Quote from: North Star on October 02, 2012, 12:45:43 PM
That seems to work for me, but I wouldn't add anything to it.
Cool. Yea, the CG is a delicate instrument of nuance. Every event has to be perfectly balanced for all the inner workings to come through.
New Question:
What are y'all's feelings about
natural open harmonics versus
fretted harmonics? How much does fretting deaden the actual sound, or affect your tone production? I've been (unconsciously) staying away from fretted harmonics, but I saw a Takemitsu piece that has a good amount that sounded fine.
What is the symbol for 'right hand muting'? I can't find a good list of guitar oriented symbols. :(
Quote from: snyprrr on October 10, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
What is the symbol for 'right hand muting'? I can't find a good list of guitar oriented symbols. :(
The palm muting symbol isn't really anything but an "x" where the notes are at or you could put a P.M. under the staff and indicate how many measures you want the notes to be palm muted.
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on April 26, 2012, 10:46:20 AM
Would Rolf Riehm's Toccata Orpheus count? (I hate it, by the way!)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy-0JKaCz9g
I found a companion to the Riehm, Roger Reynolds's
The Behavior of Mirrors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3isi1yZ7KDc
I think it actually makes Riehm look like a genius, which I hate to say about Reynolds, but I do think it's important to be hard on Composers of High Modernism, since, there is no 'marker' for where they're coming from. Just listen to a bit of the Reynolds and tell me it makes overt sense. I'd say Riehm succeeded far more in doing... SOMETHING... interesting with the Spanish Classical Guitar, at least compared to the Reynolds, IMHO.
I have yet to listen to the Berio...
QUESTION:
Are the harmonics that occur at the 7th fret, and the 19th fret (same octave for both positions), are they written as corresponding to the fretted note at the 7th,... or the 19th? It sounds to me like the 19th,... aaand, that's the way I've been writing it, on-top-of-one-leger-line-above-the-staff. I'm looking for something on the net... but...
Quote from: snyprrr on November 13, 2012, 12:18:45 PM
QUESTION:
Are the harmonics that occur at the 7th fret, and the 19th fret (same octave for both positions), are they written as corresponding to the fretted note at the 7th,... or the 19th? It sounds to me like the 19th,... aaand, that's the way I've been writing it, on-top-of-one-ledger-line-above-the-staff. I'm looking for something on the net... but...
DOH! ::)
WRONG: I meant 5 ledger lines above the staff. Right?
I'm trying to figure out the general DYNAMICS of Guitar Notation. Can you tell me what the standards are? I've noticed that 'ff' is the upper limit of most guitar music. No matter HOW HARD I pluck a giant chords, it still does seem like 'ff' is the upper limit. I mean, I TRIED to go for 'fff', but it seems like the guitar is self limiting in this regard. I think Ferneyhough has 'sfffz' and things like that, but, when I listen to the recording as I'm looking at the score, I'm like, How can one possibly follow THAT?
Likewise, I'm finding 'pp' to be at the lower limit. Sure, 'ppp' sounds doable, but, in an auditorium, who's gonna hear THAT?
My music friend says it's all in CONTEXT, but, I feel like standards of this sort shouldn't be a mystery. I got a guitarist to play the first page of my piece, but, his reading of my dynamics was about 3-clicks lower than what I intended. He did not 'ff' like I thought he would. Does that mean I have to exaggerate everything, into the 'ffff'/'pppp' realm? Currently, I'm using 'mf-f', 'f-ff'. 'mp-mf', and the such like to visualize what I'm 'hearing'.
Anyone? Pleeeze...
Quote from: canninator on April 24, 2011, 11:37:47 AM
There's a few others; Tristan Murail's Vampyr!, Laurence Crane has written at least a couple. I agree, though, the instrument has never realised its full potential in 'classical' art music.
Vampyr! is the single piece that tells me we have a LOOONG way to go before the Electric Guitar... well, there IS
Eruption.
Come on guys,... you HAVE to admit,...
EruptionOK, I'll give you Murail, Reich, and 'Four on the Floor' guy,... but then, Fripp seems to emerge as greater then them all, though even he seems a bit self-limited in his concerns and interests.
Here is my (copyright alert!) Compositional Idea:
Mndeke-Ton-Tannefor 2 Electric Guitars, 2 Electric Bass Guitars, 2 Percussions, 2 Pianos, & Brass Quintet
I simply ask your imagination run wild in a Meshuggah-meets-Xenakis-meets-Reich/Riley-meets-Fripp/Van Halen, African-Nordic...
mm? :o mm? :o
Writing the dribbling, 'Pick of Destiny' drums seems to be the big issue, along with notating the guitars,... well, the whole thing's a giant mess in need of a saviour! The point here would be to write a piece that people like us who love the history of the Electric Guitar finally get our day in the Gorecki Sweepstakes!