GMG Classical Music Forum

If so, what do you like about them? I have decided to pay more attention to them over the next few weeks. I know he was an admirer of Sibelius.

Honestly, Bax is one composer that has remained completely elusive to me. I haven't quite figured him out. That said, his symphonies go in one ear and out the other with nothing sticking out or being memorable, but those are just my ears. Perhaps you can tell us what you admire about these symphonies?

I listened to a little bit of Bax once and at the time I didn't find his aesthetic particularly enjoyable. I was probably into some other music at the time which I liked much more...so I am a very unreliable source for myself of what music I like and what I don't like.

I need to properly investigate his music. I see that sometimes people listen to Bax, but I haven't read about his music much in academic journals on music (omg nerd who tf reads these) so I can't really say I know anything about his impact in the music world either.

I like just about everything that Bax composed.

Bax is among my all time favorites.  In the area of purely instrumental music, he surpasses Richard Strauss.  I generally prefer him to Vaughan Williams in the areas of symphonies and tone poems, concertos, chamber music and solo instrimental music.  Herbert Howells I value highly too but listen to much more Bax than Howells.

Bax was influenced by Sibelius and the Norse legends and apparently after Bax met Sibelius, Bax dedicated his fifth symphony to him. The music is reminiscent of but not imitative of the music of Sibelius as Bax has a voice of his own. The resemblance comes in the orchestral textures that would be part of the Sibelius sound world. The music would not be as profound as that of Sibelius but it is rather good in its own right and it is very accessible and easy on the ear. It is also very important to know that Bax was very taken with Ireland and all things Irish and Celtic mythology played a part in his sources for inspiration. The music of Bax is definitely worth a listen and perhaps a good place to start might be the Tone Poems.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 31, 2016, 08:48:31 PM
Honestly, Bax is one composer that has remained completely elusive to me. I haven't quite figured him out.

The same for me. I hear some Sibelian influences but nothing that sticks in the mind like Sibelius. After a listen I can seldom remember anything particular about the music.

The symphonies are probably ok. I can only recall No. 6 offhand, but, I mean, it's fine, nothing wrong with it. If you like the aesthetic you'll want to hear the symphonic poems as well (which are probably better works overall than the symphonies).

The Piano Quintet's also good as are the first two piano sonatas. (I attempted to sight-read No. 1 once so remember it better, but No. 2 is probably the better work.)

Do you like the Symphonies of Bax? I am not sure that I do.

You might like to browse the Arnold Bax (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,315.0.html) thread for more information.

I don't like the symphonies. I like the tone poems - Tintagel and November Woods are masterpieces, no question about it. The symphonies are rather meandering, like someone already said -in one ear and out the next.

Symphony No. 2 is my favorite.  Nos. 1 and 7 are great too.  I really like all three of his piano sonatas.  Garden of Fand, Tintagel and November Woods are all exellent Orch. Poems.  Spring Fire and the big piano concerto Winter Legends are also very good.

6 is probably my favorite of the symphonies.  But start with the tone poems.

Quote from: andolink on August 01, 2016, 06:05:34 AM
Symphony No. 2 is my favorite.

I'm still trying to sort them...but yeah, at this moment No. 2 ranks at or at least near the top.

Sarge

Thanks for all the responses. I have recently discovered another composer who has a very similar sound to Bax (at least this is my early impression): Cyril Scott. I think one of the reasons Bax is something of a mystery is because he is not so much "expressing" himself in music, as he is merely trying to create according to an ideal form. Bax seems to be lacking passion (this was certainly not the case with Sibelius).

Quote from: Simula on August 01, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
I think one of the reasons Bax is something of a mystery is because he is not so much "expressing" himself in music, as he is merely trying to create according to an ideal form. Bax seems to be lacking passion (this was certainly not the case with Sibelius).

Passion, no, skill, yes.

And if you compare someone with Sibelius very few will come out ahead.

Bax is one of the finest orchestrators this country has ever produced. I'd say his orchestration is comparable with Ravel's. His use of muted brass and tremolando strings is particularly brilliant. My favourite symphonies of his are Nos. 2, 4 & 6.

So in answer to the question: Yes, I do. Very much.

Good question, and I think I read my own slightly hesitating answer before: I still like Springfire most.

It was a long disappeared contributor to this site, Lethevich, who turned me on to Bax with this recording, volume 5 of the Chandos Bax orchestral series.

[asin]B001190KEU[/asin]

Since then I have held Bax in high regard, although I am more familiar with the symphonic poems and smaller pieces than with the symphonies.

I love all the symphonies by Bax. He is one of my favourite composers. The most approachable is No.3 which has a beautiful poetic Epilogue section. I discovered it on LP in the university record library when I was a student and I would listen to it over and over again (LSO, Downes - never released on CD). No.5 is my other favourite and perhaps the most coherent and least rambling of them all - I've  seen it performed live to a largely empty Albert Hall in London. I find them memorable and love the 'legendary' Celtic twilight atmosphere of them. If you can enter enter Bax's sound world the symphonies can give great pleasure. There is a sense of looming catastrophe hanging over Symphony 2 which greatly appeals to me. I think that Bax wrote it following a disastrous love affair and it demonstrates a brooding, oppressive and claustrophobic atmosphere. So, I think they are all great but I'd start with symphonies 3 and 5. I saw his fine tone poem 'Nympholept' used as background music for a TV documentary on J.R.R. Tolkein, the author of 'Lord of the Rings' and Bax's music evokes a kind of mythical world which, to me, is part of his appeal. I was recently in Tintagel, Cornwall on holiday and, of course, had Bax's eponymous tone-poem going through my head as I walked along the cliffs!

PS I like Cyril Scott too - especially the Piano Concerto 1 which has a distinctly Chinese feel to it and the powerful Symphony 'Neptune', influenced by the Titanic disaster I think.

Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 11:00:23 PM
I love all the symphonies by Bax. He is one of my favourite composers. The most approachable is No.3 which has a beautiful poetic Epilogue section. I discovered it on LP in the university record library when I was a student and I would listen to it over and over again (LSO, Downes - never released on CD). No.5 is my other favourite and perhaps the most coherent and least rambling of them all - I've  seen it performed live to a largely empty Albert Hall in London. I find them memorable and love the 'legendary' Celtic twilight atmosphere of them. If you can enter enter Bax's sound world the symphonies can give great pleasure. There is a sense of looming catastrophe hanging over Symphony 2 which greatly appeals to me. I think that Bax wrote it following a disastrous love affair and it demonstrates a brooding, oppressive and claustrophobic atmosphere. So, I think they are all great but I'd start with symphonies 3 and 5. I saw his fine tone poem 'Nympholept' used as background music for a TV documentary on J.R.R. Tolkein, the author of 'Lord of the Rings' and Bax's music evokes a kind of mythical world which, to me, is part of his appeal. I was recently in Tintagel, Cornwall on holiday and, of course, had Bax's eponymous tone-poem going through my head as I walked along the cliffs!

PS I like Cyril Scott too - especially the Piano Concerto 1 which has a distinctly Chinese feel to it and the powerful Symphony 'Neptune', influenced by the Titanic disaster I think.

Nice post  :)

Tintagel was the first Bax work that I ever heard.

Yes I do but have not played any for at least 12-18 mths, I shall remedy that tonight. Thanks for jogging my memory.  ;D

Coincidentally was listening to Symphony 1 as I switched on the computer. The finest performance conducted by Myer Fredman features in a newly released Lyrita boxed set 'British Symphonies'.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Symphonies-London-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B01H5GE0R0/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1474268574&sr=1-1&keywords=british+symphonies

It is a short, violent and characteristically brooding 'legendary' work with moments of intense poetry. The performance is also available on a single CD release with Raymond Leppard's also incomparable performance of Bax's final symphony - the underrated No.7 (picture to follow I hope).
[asin]B000027QWX[/asin]

My current favorites are Spring Fire and Symphony #7, with a last movement so reminiscent of Mahler (indeed a few passages obviously "stolen" from Mahler.)

Quote from: springrite on September 19, 2016, 01:11:02 AM
My current favorites are Spring Fire and Symphony #7, with a last movement so reminiscent of Mahler (indeed a few passages obviously "stolen" from Mahler.)

I must listen to Spring Fire again (you could change your GMG name to 'firespring'  8)).

As for Symphony 7, I agree that the last movement is wonderful and the Epilogue is intensely moving, especially in Raymond Leppard's performance above. The ending is indeed reminiscent of Mahler and also the poignant finale of Malcolm Arnold's 9th Symphony.

Bax remains on my 'to listen' list, but I have heard the 1st Symphony. There is this combination of lyrical, expressive lines along with intermittent, cacophonous outbursts which is strangely captivating. And then there is just that sound that opens the Lento - and it is entirely intoxicating.

Bax is a composer I return to from time to time. I like the first three symphonies. The later symphonies interest me less, although of those No. 6 is probably the one that stands the best chance of getting played in my player.

The first two symphonies are gloriously moody and violent, unusually so for British music of the time. I believe that the 1st Symphony is under the influence of the Irish war of Independence, something that greatly troubled the composer. The deeply atmospheric slow movement suggests something of the tragedy of those events. The 2nd Symphony is perhaps even more violent, and basically just a very large and powerful piece with an organ. The 3rd Symphony is probably better than either, but less striking on first hearing. All three are at times fairly memorable, but for me, not consistently so. I have found that Bax's music is immediately appealing, but repeated hearings rarely reveal hidden secrets/structures. All the rewards are pretty much on the surface with this music.

Some of the tone poems are well worth hearing, especially The Garden of Fand. The genre is commonly considered to play to his strengths, and thats probably fair.

Of other composers, he reminds me most of Gustav Holst. In the orchestration and sheer violence of some of the music, he sometimes reminds me of Brian. The symphonies are far more conventional than those of Brian, though. If compared with Sibelius, Bax comes a cropper.

All in all, a good composer worth hearing, but not quite top division. In British music, symphonies by Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Tippett probably take precedence, as do a few of the symphonies of Brian, Simpson and Hoddinott. I think Hoddinott could well be the most underrated British composer.

Quote from: Androcles on September 21, 2016, 02:50:38 PM
Bax is a composer I return to from time to time. I like the first three symphonies. The later symphonies interest me less, although of those No. 6 is probably the one that stands the best chance of getting played in my player.

The first two symphonies are gloriously moody and violent, unusually so for British music of the time. I believe that the 1st Symphony is under the influence of the Irish war of Independence, something that greatly troubled the composer. The deeply atmospheric slow movement suggests something of the tragedy of those events. The 2nd Symphony is perhaps even more violent, and basically just a very large and powerful piece with an organ. The 3rd Symphony is probably better than either, but less striking on first hearing. All three are at times fairly memorable, but for me, not consistently so. I have found that Bax's music is immediately appealing, but repeated hearings rarely reveal hidden secrets/structures. All the rewards are pretty much on the surface with this music.

Some of the tone poems are well worth hearing, especially The Garden of Fand. The genre is commonly considered to play to his strengths, and thats probably fair.

Of other composers, he reminds me most of Gustav Holst. In the orchestration and sheer violence of some of the music, he sometimes reminds me of Brian. The symphonies are far more conventional than those of Brian, though. If compared with Sibelius, Bax comes a cropper.

All in all, a good composer worth hearing, but not quite top division. In British music, symphonies by Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Tippett probably take precedence, as do a few of the symphonies of Brian, Simpson and Hoddinott. I think Hoddinott could well be the most underrated British composer.

I agree with most of this (not the Elgar bit or the last sentence!) 1-3 are much better. I find Bax's chamber music is his best. Elgar too. Simpson was a master symphonist.

Why do you like the symphonies of Bax?

Well that question can be divided into two parts.

The first part is why.  Why? Why? Why?  A question that has been confounding theologians and philosophers thousands of years.  Why? Why? Why?

The second part of the question is do you like the symphonies of Bax? The answer to that question is yes.   >:D

Bax is number 13th in my CD library.  I have recordings of eighty-six works.

The short answer is yup! 

The long answer :  Ken is spot-on about the pleasures to be found in Bax's chamber work (not to be missed imo are his works for two pianos, see below).  Still, I would give preeminence to most of his symphonies, 1-3, and 6 are faves (the 7th, interestingly, is dedicated to the people of the U.S.) and esp. tone poems, Tale the Pine Trees Knew, Tintagel, November Woods are recommendable as first listens.  I have not heard much of his choral work which I understand is sizable and appealing.  It's safe to say that, thanks to the Chandos recordings and efforts of the Bax Charitable Trust, he is more popular now than he ever was, even in his lifetime. And btw, it's Sir Arnold Bax, an honor that took him by surprise.  One of the criticisms typically leveled at Bax is that his work is "impersonal," and it's true that he is not much interested in the 'inner life', of himself or others. (Vandermolen is quite right about the esp. passionate second symphony - but I think both #1 and 2 likely relate to the Easter Rising more than amour troubles).  It's the inner life of Faerie that Bax's orchestral work often evokes - dense, rich, vivid landscapes of Celtic mist and mystery that he and Yeats, whose work he admired, found so captivating.  A distinction many reviewers miss is that most of Bax's work is not mere graphic depiction, musical paintings or prints, but the inner, mystical life of the landscape, the power of place.  I mentioned elsewhere in the forum that for many Bax is an acquired taste - it is harmonically original (Debussy, Wagner, Strauss, Sibelius and Glazunov were models and while one can hear them occasionally Bax is very much his own man).  Two musicians I've spoken to describe him as technically difficult.  Well, not everyone is permitted entry into the Twilight Realm.   

Btw, Vandermolen's colorful "off the boil" I had to look up!  :)  So true, that. In the late 1930s, Bax was recorded as saying he wanted "to retire, like a grocer."

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on September 22, 2016, 06:34:50 AM
The short answer is yup! 

The long answer :  Ken is spot-on about the pleasures to be found in Bax's chamber work (not to be missed imo are his works for two pianos, see below).  Still, I would give preeminence to most of his symphonies, 1-3, and 6 are faves (the 7th, interestingly, is dedicated to the people of the U.S.) and esp. tone poems, Tale the Pine Trees Knew, Tintagel, November Woods are recommendable as first listens.  I have not heard much of his choral work which I understand is sizable and appealing.  It's safe to say that, thanks to the Chandos recordings and efforts of the Bax Charitable Trust, he is more popular now than he ever was, even in his lifetime. And btw, it's Sir Arnold Bax, an honor that took him by surprise.  One of the criticisms typically leveled at Bax is that his work is "impersonal," and it's true that he is not much interested in the 'inner life', of himself or others. (Vandermolen is quite right about the esp. passionate second symphony - but I think both #1 and 2 likely relate to the Easter Rising more than amour troubles).  It's the inner life of Faerie that Bax's orchestral work often evokes - dense, rich, vivid landscapes of Celtic mist and mystery that he and Yeats, whose work he admired, found so captivating.  A distinction many reviewers miss is that most of Bax's work is not mere graphic depiction, musical paintings or prints, but the inner, mystical life of the landscape, the power of place.  I mentioned elsewhere in the forum that for many Bax is an acquired taste - it is harmonically original (Debussy, Wagner, Strauss, Sibelius and Glazunov were models and while one can hear them occasionally Bax is very much his own man).  Two musicians I've spoken to describe him as technically difficult.  Well, not everyone is permitted entry into the Twilight Realm.   

Btw, Vandermolen's colorful "off the boil" I had to look up!  :)  So true, that. In the late 1930s, Bax was recorded as saying he wanted "to retire, like a grocer."

Wow! A CD I am unfamiliar with.  On to the wish list.

Quote from: arpeggio on September 22, 2016, 06:47:21 AM
Wow! A CD I am unfamiliar with.  On to the wish list.

arpeggio, that cd is so wonderful it comes with the Ghost's exclusive Money-Back Guarantee.

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on September 22, 2016, 06:50:27 AM
arpeggio, that cd is so wonderful it comes with the Ghost's exclusive Money-Back Guarantee.

Apparently out of print.  Just ordered a used copy from Amazon.

These are the types of posts I want to see.  I am sick and tired of other forums where are too many threads where people complain about death of classical music or how bad Mozart or Cage is.

Thanks for the wonderful recommendation.  With this acquisition Bax may have jumped for 13th to 12th.

Bax Brittanica?

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 22, 2016, 08:53:12 AM
Bax Brittanica?

That's a PUN Andrei!

>:D :laugh:

( aren't I a sardonic baxtard?)

Couldn't help meself, m'lud.

Quote from: Ken B on September 22, 2016, 08:55:59 AM
That's a PUN Andrei!

>:D :laugh:

( aren't I a sardonic baxtard?)

You is  :laugh: :laugh: Bax to the Max, say I.

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on September 22, 2016, 06:34:50 AM

Btw, Vandermolen's colorful "off the boil" I had to look up!  :)  So true, that. In the late 1930s, Bax was recorded as saying he wanted "to retire, like a grocer."

Remember that we drink a lot of tea over here.  :)

I decided to listen to my first Bax Symphony today on Spotify. It was the First Symphony, the recording was this:


It was okay. I didn't hate it. It did not blow my mind. The music is more cubic and a bit clumsy rather than fluid and sophisticated. It had nice movie music type of orchestration. I didn't listen to the "fillers" on the disc.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 25, 2016, 04:29:33 AM
I decided to listen to my first Bax Symphony today on Spotify. It was the First Symphony, the recording was this:

[asin]B0000060CE[/asin]

It was okay. I didn't hate it. It did not blow my mind. The music is more cubic and a bit clumsy rather than fluid and sophisticated. It had nice movie music type of orchestration. I didn't listen to the "fillers" on the disc.

My suggestions if you want to hear anything else by Bax are symphonies 3,2 and 5 and 'Tintagel'.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2016, 05:02:55 AM
My suggestions if you want to hear anything else by Bax are symphonies 3,2 and 5 and 'Tintagel'.

My plan is to listen to all the symphonies chronologically. Tintagel also, since people praise it so much. I will take my time, maybe a couple of symphonies per week.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 25, 2016, 04:29:33 AM
I decided to listen to my first Bax Symphony today on Spotify. It was the First Symphony, the recording was this:

[asin]B0000060CE[/asin]

It was okay. I didn't hate it. It did not blow my mind. The music is more cubic and a bit clumsy rather than fluid and sophisticated. It had nice movie music type of orchestration. I didn't listen to the "fillers" on the disc.

My suggestion would be to listen to those "fillers" first. The Tone Poems are interesting works in themselves and may give you a lead into his sound world in a more concise way.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 25, 2016, 06:49:01 AM
My plan is to listen to all the symphonies chronologically. Tintagel also, since people praise it so much. I will take my time, maybe a couple of symphonies per week.

Let us know how you get on. Other than what has already been recommended to you I'd suggest Nympholept and Christmas Eve in the Mountains, both hauntingly atmospheric scores in my view and the lovely Harp Quintet.

I'm going to try and wrap my mind around Bax. What work(s) should I start with first? Thanks in advance.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 25, 2016, 11:29:54 AM
I'm going to try and wrap my mind around Bax. What work(s) should I start with first?

I have no idea where you should start  ;D  All I can tell you is that Symphonies 2, 1 and 4 (despite its reputation as the weakest of the seven) are my favorites and the Third's Epilogue is the most moving music he ever composed. I need to survey the tone poems again but at this moment I agree with the consensus that Tintagel and Christmas Eve are probably the best.

Sarge

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 25, 2016, 11:29:54 AM
I'm going to try and wrap my mind around Bax. What work(s) should I start with first? Thanks in advance.

Chamber stuff, 2 and 3.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 25, 2016, 01:20:31 PM
I have no idea where you should start  ;D  All I can tell you is that Symphonies 2, 1 and 4 (despite its reputation as the weakest of the seven) are my favorites and the Third's Epilogue is the most moving music he ever composed. I need to survey the tone poems again but at this moment I agree with the consensus that Tintagel and Christmas Eve are probably the best.

Sarge

Bax was a composer I enjoyed when I first started getting into classical music, but, over the years, I've become rather indifferent to his music. I'm not sure why exactly as the idea of his music (i. e. Impressionistic harmonies, swirling atmospheric textures) is actually very appealing to me, but when I hear his music, that's really all I hear. Someone mentioned that Bax's style, to those who aren't attracted to it, is impersonal. I'm inclined to agree since the composer doesn't seem, to me, to have a characteristic sound of his own. It just feels like the music is all smoke and mirrors. There is one work I've loved for many years and that's his chamber work In Memoriam. Really gorgeous work that seems to drop all of the misty harmonies and offers a more intimate portrait of the composer.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 25, 2016, 01:37:05 PM
Bax was a composer I enjoyed when I first started getting into classical music, but, over the years, I've become rather indifferent to his music. I'm not sure why exactly as the idea (i. e. Impressionistic harmonies, swirling atmospheric textures) is actually very appealing to me, but when I hear his music, that's really all I hear. .... It just feels like the music is all smoke and mirrors.

*stifles La Mer comment*

Interesting Bax story.

Our youngest son lives in Los Angeles and we sometimes piggy back our visits with trips to Arizona and New Mexico.  We live in Virginia.  We take some CD's with us to play in the car.  When driving through Arizona and New Mexico my wife likes to listen to Bax.  For her the music seems to fit the scenery.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2016, 09:22:09 AM
Let us know how you get on. Other than what has already been recommended to you I'd suggest Nympholept and Christmas Eve in the Mountains, both hauntingly atmospheric scores in my view and the lovely Harp Quintet.

Symphony 2 done today on Spotify. Somehow I expected an improvement from the first, but it was pretty much more of the same. In fact I felt more bored this time. Hopefully the third is finally an improvement.  :-\

I have the Harp Quintet, the Naxos disc with it. That has been my only Bax disc for over a decade. So far I feel I enjoy the chamber stuff more than the symphonic stuff, but we'll see...

Quote from: 71 dB on September 26, 2016, 04:49:14 AM
Symphony 2 done today on Spotify. Somehow I expected an improvement from the first, but it was pretty much more of the same. In fact I felt more bored this time. Hopefully the third is finally an improvement.  :-\

I have the Harp Quintet, the Naxos disc with it. That has been my only Bax disc for over a decade. So far I feel I enjoy the chamber stuff more than the symphonic stuff, but we'll see...

Ok, fingers crossed for No.3 ( the last movement is best)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 25, 2016, 11:29:54 AM
I'm going to try and wrap my mind around Bax. What work(s) should I start with first? Thanks in advance.

I'd say symphonies 5 and 3 John, although I like them all, even the much derided No.4. Also the Harp Quintet and the tone poems Tintagel, Christmas Eve and Nympholept and Northern Ballad No.1 as well as the Symphonic Variations ( a kind of massive piano concerto).

Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2016, 07:47:46 AM
I'd say symphonies 5 and 3 John, although I like them all, even the much derided No.4. Also the Harp Quintet and the tone poems Tintagel, Christmas Eve and Nympholept and Northern Ballad No.1 as well as the Symphonic Variations ( a kind of massive piano concerto).

Thanks, Jeffrey. I'll keep these works in mind the next time I get the courage to give Bax another try.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2016, 07:47:46 AM
I like them all, even the much derided No.4.

You're kidding me, right? No. 4 is derided? *facepalm* Well whoever derides it, you are so phenomenally wrong it hurts. It's one of his masterpieces, one of the great sea-evoking works.

Ranking: 6-4-2-1-3-5-7

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 26, 2016, 12:01:16 PM
You're kidding me, right? No. 4 is derided? *facepalm* Well whoever derides it, you are so phenomenally wrong it hurts. It's one of his masterpieces, one of the great sea-evoking works.

Ranking: 6-4-2-1-3-5-7

I totally agree with you. Maybe 'derided' was putting it too strongly but it is usually seen as the 'weakest' and most diffuse of them all. I had the original LP with Vernon Handley conducting the Guildford Philharmonic. That release on CD was one of the few genuine releases from the company that perpetrated the Joyce Hatto Fraud.

My Ranking: 3,5,4,2,7,1,6

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 26, 2016, 12:01:16 PM
Ranking: 6-4-2-1-3-5-7

Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2016, 12:30:53 PM
My Ranking: 3,5,4,2,7,1,6

I'm far closer to the Maestro.

2 1 4 6 3 5 7

Good to see we all value the Fourth.


Sarge

I like Nos 2 & 5 best.  Look for Symphony 2 conducted by Myer Fredman on the Lyrita label.  A demonstration-worthy vinyl disc in its day.

Quote from: aukhawk on September 27, 2016, 06:01:36 AM
I like Nos 2 & 5 best.  Look for Symphony 2 conducted by Myer Fredman on the Lyrita label.  A demonstration-worthy vinyl disc in its day.

And here it is - one of the greatest Bax CDs of all time. Anyone who wants to try Symphony 5 must hear this version - it is head and shoulders above any other:

[asin]B0012XDFPG[/asin]

Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2016, 06:34:38 AM
And here it is - one of the greatest Bax CDs of all time. Anyone who wants to try Symphony 5 must hear this version - it is head and shoulders above any other:

[asin]B0012XDFPG[/asin]

Interesting; I like Bax and I like Leppard but I would not have put the two together.

Quote from: aligreto on September 27, 2016, 07:55:19 AM
Interesting; I like Bax and I like Leppard but I would not have put the two together.

He is a great and underrated conductor (aged 89 now). His recording of Bax's valedictory 7th Symphony is also without equal:
[asin]B000027QWX[/asin]

Perhaps my familiarity with these Lyrita recording of symphonies 5 and 7 is why I rate them more highly than others here. For those who find the symphonies rather diffuse I think that No.5, especially in this recording, is the most coherent of the seven. It has  a wonderfully redemptive, liturgical sounding, conclusion. Like Vaughan Williams's 5th Symphony it is dedicated to Sibelius and undoubtedly shows his influence. Lyrita unfortunately never recorded symphonies 3 and 4 as these already existed on record before the Lyrita series started. No.3 in recordings by Barbirolli and Downes (shamefully never released on CD) and Symphony 4 with Vernon Handley and the Guildford PO. Bryden Thomson recorded the finest version of the underrated Symphony 4 with the Ulster Orchestra on Chandos, coupled with a wonderful 'Tintagel'.

My favourite recordings:

No.1 Fredman
No.2 Fredman
No.3 Downes
No.4 Thomson
No.5 Leppard
No.6 Lloyd Jones
No.7 Leppard

Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2016, 12:35:25 PM
He is a great and underrated conductor (aged 89 now). His recording of Bax's valedictory 7th Symphony is also without equal:

[asin]B000027QWX[/asin]

Thank you for that. I have a number of his recordings but in Baroque and Classical music mainly; this opens up a new dimension for me with Leppard  8)

Quote from: aligreto on September 27, 2016, 01:09:32 PM
Thank you for that. I have a number of his recordings but in Baroque and Classical music mainly; this opens up a new dimension for me with Leppard  8)

My pleasure. I'm aware that Leppard is not associated with this repertoire, which makes it even more interesting. Leppard's recording of Bax's 5th Symphony on LP was a revelation to my youthful self.

Just finished listening to the third symphony on spotify. The beginning was promising, somehow more positive and more "fluid" than the first 2 symphonies, but the latter part of the long first movement wasn't so great. The rest of the symphony didn't impress me much either. Maybe this was a bit better than the first two?

This is not looking very good. Nearly half of the symphonies done and even the "highly recommended" third didn't do much. I seem to miss something important in this music, something the fans of Bax understand. I have four symphonies to go and it starts to feel like a burden. I wish Elgar had written 7 symphonies.  :-\

I'm sorry, but I am trying to like Bax and this is just as disappointing to me. At least I don't dislike his music. It has a very neutral effect on me.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 29, 2016, 02:35:01 AM
Just finished listening to the third symphony on spotify. The beginning was promising, somehow more positive and more "fluid" than the first 2 symphonies, but the latter part of the long first movement wasn't so great. The rest of the symphony didn't impress me much either. Maybe this was a bit better than the first two?

This is not looking very good. Nearly half of the symphonies done and even the "highly recommended" third didn't do much. I seem to miss something important in this music, something the fans of Bax understand. I have four symphonies to go and it starts to feel like a burden. I wish Elgar had written 7 symphonies.  :-\

I'm sorry, but I am trying to like Bax and this is just as disappointing to me. At least I don't dislike his music. It has a very neutral effect on me.

Did you not enjoy the long poetic Epilogue to the Third Symphony. I suspect that, if you keep going, you may find Symphony 5 has the most cohesive structure. I'm not sure that not enjoying the music means that you are 'missing something'; maybe it is just not your cup of tea.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2016, 06:39:37 AM
Did you not enjoy the long poetic Epilogue to the Third Symphony.

I expected to be impressed by it, but somehow I wasn't.  :o Maybe I listen to it again to be sure...

EDIT: listened to the third movement again. The first part of the movement it a bit boring. When the epiloque starts halfway into the movement things get better. I wasn't paying attention the first time and I wasn't listening properly. Bax has so much boring stuff in his symphonies it's hard to stay focused for the better parts. Epilogue is good, but not jaw dropping. If all of Bax's music was that good I might be a Bax fan already.  ;D

Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2016, 06:39:37 AMI suspect that, if you keep going, you may find Symphony 5 has the most cohesive structure. I'm not sure that not enjoying the music means that you are 'missing something'; maybe it is just not your cup of tea.

I'm not giving up on Bax yet. It's just that the hope of Bax becoming one of my favorite composers isn't big after the first 3 symphonies. I am of course very new to Bax at this point and it is clear I don't necessorily understand everything about the music.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 29, 2016, 08:19:06 AM
I'm not giving up on Bax yet.

It took me about 20 years of trying before I could fully appreciate Bax. He was one of the toughest nuts to crack.

Sarge

Bax's fourth done today. I think this one was the easiest to "get" and most pleasant so far.  0:)

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 29, 2016, 08:24:12 AM
It took me about 20 years of trying before I could fully appreciate Bax. He was one of the toughest nuts to crack.

Sarge

Well, I won't be cracking this nut for 20 years. I move on. So many composers to explore!

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 29, 2016, 08:24:12 AMHe was one of the toughest nuts to crack.

Sarge

Indeed! I still haven't 'cracked the code' yet.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 01, 2016, 11:19:40 AM
Bax's fourth done today. I think this one was the easiest to "get" and most pleasant so far.  0:)

Well, I won't be cracking this nut for 20 years. I move on. So many composers to explore!

Interesting. I really like Symphony 4 too. Looking forward to hearing what you make of No.5 - my favourite overall.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 02, 2016, 01:26:10 PM
Interesting. I really like Symphony 4 too. Looking forward to hearing what you make of No.5 - my favourite overall.

Yeah, #5 is next, maybe tomorrow?  ;)

I was ensorcelled almost immediately, but lucked out surely by beginning with the tone poems, bite-sized Bax.  Further down the road it helped that I read his autobiography - a delightful book - which elucidates some of his work, esp. the tone poems.  That experience surely confirmed me as a Baxian.  Decades ago, I had a Bax-induced dream - a memorable visit to Faerie that I know I wouldn't have had without him.  Just the once.  He is one of my most treasured musical experiences; his colors are so vivid and the harmonies curious as magic.  I think he requires both concentration and imagination, perhaps two qualities not often working in conjunction.  If you find him challenging, a 'nut to crack,' remember that Sibelius called him "my son in music," and persist.

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on October 02, 2016, 02:19:09 PM
I was ensorcelled almost immediately, but lucked out surely by beginning with the tone poems, bite-sized Bax.  Further down the road it helped that I read his autobiography - a delightful book - which elucidates some of his work, esp. the tone poems.  That experience surely confirmed me as a Baxian.  Decades ago, I had a Bax-induced dream - a memorable visit to Faerie that I know I wouldn't have had without him.  Just the once.  He is one of my most treasured musical experiences; his colors are so vivid and the harmonies curious as magic.  I think he requires both concentration and imagination, perhaps two qualities not often working in conjunction.  If you find him challenging, a 'nut to crack,' remember that Sibelius called him "my son in music," and persist.

Well, Ghost, let's not confuse your own listening experience with anyone else's. When I listen to Bax, I don't hear anything that remotely sticks out in my mind. Sometimes there's a nice ostinato pattern that appears only to disappear into a musical passage that I can only describe as uninteresting. He's in one ear and out the other and I've heard all of his symphonies and tone poems. I can't even remember anything other than thinking the music wasn't saying anything or at least saying anything to me. Also, Sibelius' own appraisal of Bax's music doesn't mean that I'm going to enjoy just because Sibelius held him in high regard. There's just something missing in his music IMHO. I never thought I'd say this but even I connect more with Messiaen's music more than Bax's and I'm by no means a fan of Messiaen's music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 02, 2016, 02:27:51 PM
Also, Sibelius' own appraisal of Bax's music doesn't mean that I'm going to enjoy just because Sibelius held him in high regard.

Interesting because my impression of Bax so far is he is a kind of British Sibelius.  :P

Quote from: 71 dB on October 02, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
Interesting because my impression of Bax so far is he is a kind of British Sibelius.  :P

Honestly, I don't even hear Sibelius in Bax except maybe in some atmospheric quality in the music. Sibelius always has purpose in his music. Bax, on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's going anywhere with the music. I suppose I could approach Bax as a soundscape type of composer, but, even then, I still probably wouldn't be fully convinced in what other's hear in his music.

P.S. I know you're not a Sibelius fan.

Last night I listened to the Fourth Symphony - its first recording with Vernon Handley conducting the semi-professional Guildford Philharmonic (1960s recording). Actually it has an urgency and power unlike any other recording including Handley's more recent version on Chandos. It is even better than Bryden Thomson's fine version although that is the No.1 choice for a modern recording. That early Bax Fourth was only the second Bax symphony to be recorded and the first on LP (Barbirolli's recording of Symphony 3 preceded it in the 78RPM era). The CD is interesting it itself as one of the few genuine recordings on the Concert Artists CD label which perpetrated the Joyce Hatto fraud (her husband ran the label). Joyce Hatto's recording of Bax's Symphonic Variations was another genuine recording. This got me thinking following the discussions on this thread and I wondered why all my preferred versions of the Bax symphonies are from the LP era. Is it because these were my earliest experiences with Bax symphonies or are they simply better performances? On reflection I think that they are better performances and have come to the conclusion that the Naxos series, whilst a great and inexpensive introduction to Bax, are solid but no more than that. I recall as a teenager the huge impact the liturgical-sounding conclusion of Bax's 5th Symphony had on me in the performance conducted by Raymond Leppard on a Lyrita LP. This is the one dedicated to Sibelius. I also wonder if it helps to come from this part of the world to appreciate Bax. When I first encountered Symphony 3 (LSO Downes LP - disgracefully never released on CD by RCA) I was at university in the north of England and living in a grotty student flat (apartment) but very close to the sea. Bax's music often reminds me of the more rugged sections of the English countryside (although Ireland was a big influence on him). I agree with the argument that Bax's symphonies lack a coherent structure but, speaking personally, I love wallowing in the atmospheric episodes and the music often has an emotional appeal to me which compensates for the lack of formal coherence in the structure of the works. Vaughan Williams, who admired Bax said that Bax needed some 'gruelling lessons with Stanford' but I wonder if Bax may have lost more that he gained through attendance in Stanford's tyrannical classes at the Royal College of Music.
Just some rambling thoughts.....

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 02, 2016, 02:27:51 PM
Well, Ghost, let's not confuse your own listening experience with anyone else's. When I listen to Bax, I don't hear anything that remotely sticks out in my mind. Sometimes there's a nice ostinato pattern that appears only to disappear into a musical passage that I can only describe as uninteresting. He's in one ear and out the other and I've heard all of his symphonies and tone poems. I can't even remember anything other than thinking the music wasn't saying anything or at least saying anything to me. Also, Sibelius' own appraisal of Bax's music doesn't mean that I'm going to enjoy just because Sibelius held him in high regard. There's just something missing in his music IMHO. I never thought I'd say this but even I connect more with Messiaen's music more than Bax's and I'm by no means a fan of Messiaen's music.

I will tone down my enthusiasm, John, but when I start confusing my "own listening experience with anyone else's," they'll also be getting the bills for my CD purchases.  I noted on this thread and elsewhere that for many Bax is an acquired taste, that's hardly foisting my own experience onto others but an admission that his sound world is distinctive and may require repeated listens.  As far as Sibelius goes, it's customary before hiring someone, whether it's a dept. store manager, attorney to plead one's case, or even a new composer to enjoy, to consider "references" to increase the odds the person hired will be a good fit or success.  Sure, there's no guarantee therein, but Sibelius didn't hand out recommendations lightly.  As far as the Bax/Sibelius link goes my own view is that the latter admired the former for the end more than the means.  Consider what musicologist Burnett James has to say: "The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that, much though Bax admired Sibelius, it is a red herring. I am convinced the line runs far more accurately from Mahler through Bax to Shostakovich. The famous meeting between Sibelius and Mahler seems to me to put Bax squarely in the Mahler not the Sibelius camp. I think this is important, because the eternal references to Sibelius only work to Bax's disadvantage, since his mind worked in a totally different orbit. Bax, with his confessed Russian affiliations looks forward to Shostakovich not back to Sibelius, although at the time and for some time afterwards the real connection could not be seen."

Quote from: vandermolen on October 05, 2016, 03:14:29 AM
I also wonder if it helps to come from this part of the world to appreciate Bax.

I don't think you have to be English to appreciate Bax.  I have always enjoyed his music and I am American. 

I think 71db won't like Bax if he hasn't so far and is so deep into his work list.  Some composers just don't speak to everyone.  I am completely ambivalent to Holbrooke.  After listening to many of his works, they consistently bore me.  Others like him though and eagerly await each new release of his music. 

I did not approach Bax by way of Elgar which seems to be what 71db is doing.  I approached him more through Vaughan Williams but it was immediately apparent these two were not really comparable though I enjoy both.  They are very distinctive and major symphonists. I enjoy everyone of their symphonies.

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on October 05, 2016, 04:48:49 AM
I will tone down my enthusiasm, John, but when I start confusing my "own listening experience with anyone else's," they'll also be getting the bills for my CD purchases.  I noted on this thread and elsewhere that for many Bax is an acquired taste, that's hardly foisting my own experience onto others but an admission that his sound world is distinctive and may require repeated listens.  As far as Sibelius goes, it's customary before hiring someone, whether it's a dept. store manager, attorney to plead one's case, or even a new composer to enjoy, to consider "references" to increase the odds the person hired will be a good fit or success.  Sure, there's no guarantee therein, but Sibelius didn't hand out recommendations lightly.  As far as the Bax/Sibelius link goes my own view is that the latter admired the former for the end more than the means.  Consider what musicologist Burnett James has to say: "The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that, much though Bax admired Sibelius, it is a red herring. I am convinced the line runs far more accurately from Mahler through Bax to Shostakovich. The famous meeting between Sibelius and Mahler seems to me to put Bax squarely in the Mahler not the Sibelius camp. I think this is important, because the eternal references to Sibelius only work to Bax's disadvantage, since his mind worked in a totally different orbit. Bax, with his confessed Russian affiliations looks forward to Shostakovich not back to Sibelius, although at the time and for some time afterwards the real connection could not be seen."

I understand and thanks for this thoughtful post. Let me just say: I've tried Bax on numerous occasions and the music just escapes me each time. No fault of the composer's but merely my own listening experience. I'm not sure, though, at this juncture, I want to continue to try when there is a world of music out there that I do love and adore. For me, time is better spent in that other world. :)

Quote from: relm1 on October 05, 2016, 05:50:32 AM
I don't think you have to be English to appreciate Bax.  I have always enjoyed his music and I am American. 

I think 71db won't like Bax if he hasn't so far and is so deep into his work list.  Some composers just don't speak to everyone.  I am completely ambivalent to Holbrooke.  After listening to many of his works, they consistently bore me.  Others like him though and eagerly await each new release of his music. 

I did not approach Bax by way of Elgar which seems to be what 71db is doing.  I approached him more through Vaughan Williams but it was immediately apparent these two were not really comparable though I enjoy both.  They are very distinctive and major symphonists. I enjoy everyone of their symphonies.

I don't think that you have to be English either any more than you need to be American to appreciate Copland. I fact many composers are largely disregarded in their own countries and more appreciated elsewhere (Sibelius in Britain in the 1930s comes to mind). I just wonder how well Bax's music travels. I recall going into a CD shop in Austria about twelve or so years ago and noting that there was a considerable number of CDs of music by Benjamin Britten and none by Vaughan Williams at all, although VW is much better known internationally now. Music and Landscape is an interesting field of study (there is a book about it) and maybe in my psyche Bax and the countryside have kind of merged together. I'm not a fan of Holbrooke either although I tend to prefer the chamber music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 05, 2016, 06:22:03 AM
I understand and thanks for this thoughtful post. Let me just say: I've tried Bax on numerous occasions and the music just escapes me each time.

I think Bax's style lends itself very well to his tone poems. In fact taken as a whole I think his tone poems rank right up there with those of the very best like Strauss, Dvorak, Liszt etc.. I just don't know where he is going with most of his symphonies. I like 3 and 5 somewhat as I think they sound more structured than the others.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on October 05, 2016, 06:46:24 AM
I think Bax's style lends itself very well to his tone poems. In fact taken as a whole I think his tone poems rank right up there with those of the very best like Strauss, Dvorak, Liszt etc.. I just don't know where he is going with most of his symphonies. I like 3 and 5 somewhat as I think they sound more structured than the others.

Interesting. I think that no.4 is more like a collection of tone poems which may be part of its appeal to me. 3 and 5 rank very highly too.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 02, 2016, 01:42:20 PM
Yeah, #5 is next, maybe tomorrow?  ;)

So, did you listen to Symphony 5? We (I) need to know!
8)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2016, 10:13:38 AM
So, did you listen to Symphony 5? We (I) need to know!
8)

No! My computer booted when I opened Spotify and I haven't tried since.  ???

Quote from: 71 dB on October 06, 2016, 01:57:19 PM
No! My computer booted when I opened Spotify and I haven't tried since.  ???

Thanks for update. Hope it gets sorted out.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2016, 02:18:03 PM
Thanks for update. Hope it gets sorted out.

Finally listened to the fifth. I felt it is the weakest one so far, a disappointment after the stronger fourth.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 10, 2016, 04:02:04 AM
Finally listened to the fifth. I felt it is the weakest one so far, a disappointment after the stronger fourth.

Which version did you hear?
No.6 is considered the greatest my many so I look forward to hearing what you think.
I'm not giving up with this!
8)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 10, 2016, 10:07:04 AM
I'm not giving up with this!
8)

He liked 4 and at least part of 2 so I'm relatively content  :)

Sarge

Quote from: vandermolen on October 10, 2016, 10:07:04 AM
Which version did you hear?
No.6 is considered the greatest my many so I look forward to hearing what you think.
I'm not giving up with this!
8)

Naxos cycle.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 10, 2016, 11:03:18 AM
He liked 4 and at least part of 2 so I'm relatively content  :)

Sarge

Yeah, 4 was okay.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 10, 2016, 04:16:33 PM
Naxos cycle.
Yeah, 4 was okay.

I'm sorry that you didn't hear the Raymond Leppard version of Symphony 5 on Lyrita. It is IMHO by far the best version. However No.6 is the best in the Naxos cycle so fingers crossed.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 10, 2016, 11:03:18 AM
He liked 4 and at least part of 2 so I'm relatively content  :)

Sarge

Good point Sarge!
:)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 10, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
I'm sorry that you didn't hear the Raymond Leppard version of Symphony 5 on Lyrita. It is IMHO by far the best version. However No.6 is the best in the Naxos cycle so fingers crossed.

This is why I get frustrated on this board sometimes. Questions like "Do you like the Symphonies of Bax?" makes me feel inferior and unsure of myself. I try to fix it by listening to his symphonies (even if I don't like them that much) and then I am told I am listening to the wrong performances. Yes, I am the guy how does everything wrong. 

I am a total Bax newbie at this point and I listen to the symphonies so I can say I have heard them and to see if Bax is my cup of tea (doesn't look that way at this point). I have never been a "performance whore" and I believe the Naxos cycle is good enough, because those discs aren't from the beginning years of Naxos label, when the label was more hit and miss.

Of course you mean only good and I thank you for the recommendation. If Bax hits me hard someday, I know which fifth to get.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 11, 2016, 01:35:19 AM
This is why I get frustrated on this board sometimes. Questions like "Do you like the Symphonies of Bax?" makes me feel inferior and unsure of myself. I try to fix it by listening to his symphonies (even if I don't like them that much) and then I am told I am listening to the wrong performances. Yes, I am the guy how does everything wrong. 

I am a total Bax newbie at this point and I listen to the symphonies so I can say I have heard them and to see if Bax is my cup of tea (doesn't look that way at this point). I have never been a "performance whore" and I believe the Naxos cycle is good enough, because those discs aren't from the beginning years of Naxos label, when the label was more hit and miss.

Of course you mean only good and I thank you for the recommendation. If Bax hits me hard someday, I know which fifth to get.

Coincidentally I was listening to the Naxos recording of Symphony 6 when I saw this posting. I think that this performance is excellent, possibly the best version.
The last thing I wanted to do is make you feel inferior - so I'm very sorry for having done so, even unintentionally. I have no monopoly of wisdom on this topic or any other - just a view which is mine only. When I was at university in the 1970s it came back to me that another student (one who actually,unlike myself, studied music) told a friend of mine 'never listen to Jeff (ie me) when he talks about classical music as he talks nonsense.'

PS I still want to know what you think of symphonies 6 and 7!
:)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 11, 2016, 02:11:17 AM
Coincidentally I was listening to the Naxos recording of Symphony 6 when I saw this posting. I think that this performance is excellent, possibly the best version.

That is good to hear! I look forward to it.  ;)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 11, 2016, 02:11:17 AMThe last thing I wanted to do is make you feel inferior - so I'm very sorry for having done so, even unintentionally. I have no monopoly of wisdom on this topic or any other - just a view which is mine only. When I was at university in the 1970s it came back to me that another student (one who actually,unlike myself, studied music) told a friend of mine 'never listen to Jeff (ie me) when he talks about classical music as he talks nonsense.'

Sorry, I was a bit too dramatic. I'm good here.  :) I am of course grateful for the help and hints.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 11, 2016, 02:11:17 AMPS I still want to know what you think of symphonies 6 and 7! :)

I will keep you informed, of course.  0:)

Quote from: 71 dB on October 11, 2016, 02:27:36 AM


I will keep you informed, of course.  0:)

Excellent!
:)

Wow, just finished listening to Symphony 6 on Spotify (David Lloyd-Jones) and what a pleasant surprise! I find this symphony superior to 1-5. If I found those earlier symphonies more or less boring, the sixth has a mesmerizing character. Don't know about the last symphony (yet), but this looks like a disc to get.  :P

Quote from: 71 dB on October 12, 2016, 01:01:19 AM
Wow, just finished listening to Symphony 6 on Spotify (David Lloyd-Jones) and what a pleasant surprise! I find this symphony superior to 1-5. If I found those earlier symphonies more or less boring, the sixth has a mesmerizing character. Don't know about the last symphony (yet), but this looks like a disc to get.  :P

Delighted to hear this!  :)
I had a feeling that you might like the turbulent No.6. Many find it to be the greatest of the cycle, where Bax finally works out his demons! No.7 is sometimes seen as an anti-climax and evidence of Bax's declining interest. However, it has the most beautiful Epilogue - a true farewell to his musical muse (that wasn't very well expressed  ::)) which I find very moving - hope you enjoy it and many thanks for feeding back. Your post has inspired me to play it again later.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 12, 2016, 04:03:31 AM
Delighted to hear this!  :)
I had a feeling that you might like the turbulent No.6. Many find it to be the greatest of the cycle, where Bax finally works out his demons! No.7 is sometimes seen as an anti-climax and evidence of Bax's declining interest. However, it has the most beautiful Epilogue - a true farewell to his musical muse (that wasn't very well expressed  ::)) which I find very moving - hope you enjoy it and many thanks for feeding back. Your post has inspired me to play it again later.

Your feelings serve you well it seems.  ;) I would not call the symphony "turbulent" myself, but mesmerazing and interesting. I can take one more symphony by Bax even if it is an anti-climax. Thanks for your support, hints and patience!

Success at last; well done guys  8)

Quote from: aligreto on October 12, 2016, 07:56:30 AM
Success at last; well done guys  8)

:)

Symphony 7 was premiered in Carnegie Hall in 1939 and dedicated to 'The People of America'.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 12, 2016, 07:20:24 AM
Your feelings serve you well it seems.  ;) I would not call the symphony "turbulent" myself, but mesmerazing and interesting. I can take one more symphony by Bax even if it is an anti-climax. Thanks for your support, hints and patience!

Actually having listened to the Lloyd-Jones recording again tonight I think that your description is more apt. Also, I think that it is the finest version of all. I have recordings of Symphony 6 by Bostock, Del Mar, Handley, Lloyd-Jones and Thomson and Lloyd-Jones is now my favourite - it has a magical quality to it. Also, the recording is terrific - that brass at the opening and it has a rhythmic drive unlike any other version. So thank you for making me reappraise this symphony. And, oh yes, you have to get the CD.  8)
[asin]B00008IHW3[/asin]

Quote from: vandermolen on October 13, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
Actually having listened to the Lloyd-Jones recording again tonight I think that your description is more apt.

That is cool to hear.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 13, 2016, 11:02:45 AMAlso, I think that it is the finest version of all. I have recordings of Symphony 6 by Bostock, Del Mar, Handley, Lloyd-Jones and Thomson and Lloyd-Jones is now my favourite - it has a magical quality to it. Also, the recording is terrific - that brass at the opening and it has a rhythmic drive unlike any other version.

Sometimes Naxos gets it right.  ;)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 13, 2016, 11:02:45 AMSo thank you for making me reappraise this symphony. And, oh yes, you have to get the CD.  8)
[asin]B00008IHW3[/asin]

You are welcome!
(yeah, I'm getting the disc in the near future  0:) )

I am a big Bax fan but I have only one duplicate copy of one of the symphonies, the Third.  I have the entire Thomas series on Chandos.  They sound good to me.  With the exception of a few band works (big band junkie) I am usually happy with just single copies of most stuff.  (I know of one gentleman in another forum who brags that he has fifty copies of the complete symphonies of Beethoven.  I can see that with a real Beethoven symphony junkie or a musicologist who specializes in Beethoven.  I have a meager four copies including an HIP set.)   

I have the impression from reading the previous threads is that Bax is difficult to conduct.  I remember reading a review of Thomas' recording of the Fourth that, according to the reviewer, if it is not done correctly, the first movement could sound like a mess.

Could it be that Bax can only make sense in the hands of a capable conductor?

Quote from: arpeggio on October 13, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
I am a big Bax fan but I have only one duplicate copy of one of the symphonies, the Third.  I have the entire Thomas series on Chandos.  They sound good to me.  With the exception of a few band works (big band junkie) I am usually happy with just single copies of most stuff.  (I know of one gentleman in another forum who brags that he has fifty copies of the complete symphonies of Beethoven.  I can see that with a real Beethoven symphony junkie or a musicologist who specializes in Beethoven.  I have a meager four copies including an HIP set.)   

I have the impression from reading the previous threads is that Bax is difficult to conduct.  I remember reading a review of Thomas' recording of the Fourth that, according to the reviewer, if it is not done correctly, the first movement could sound like a mess.

Could it be that Bax can only make sense in the hands of a capable conductor?

I think that's true, certainly in the case of the symphonies, whose complexity can be overwhelming.  Vernon Handley would agree :  "Bax's music poses certain problems for the conductor. First of all you've got to study the music, you need to know a lot of it to understand the language. It is not a cross between Richard Strauss and Rachmaninoff. It is very personal. It is also hard to appreciate the form of a Bax work because of all the beautiful melodies and harmony. Bax is a resourceful orchestrator; the colours in his mind are so vivid that sometimes one is tempted to think there is impressionistic music before one but in actual fact there is thematic material there. To present the thematic material, to present the form of the work, poses great problems for the conductor. He has got to make sure that all the tiny joins between one passage and the next are made rather than shown because the more you sectionalize the music in favour of the sensuous sounds, the more damage you do to the form. Indeed I am reminded of a passage in Bax's autobiography, Farewell my Youth, when he says: I slammed the lid of the piano shut and went out because I could not think of a logical continuation. Now a man concerned about logical continuation is clearly concerned about form, not just pretty pictures."

Quote from: Ghost Sonata on October 13, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
I think that's true, certainly in the case of the symphonies, whose complexity can be overwhelming.  Vernon Handley would agree :  "Bax's music poses certain problems for the conductor. First of all you've got to study the music, you need to know a lot of it to understand the language. It is not a cross between Richard Strauss and Rachmaninoff. It is very personal. It is also hard to appreciate the form of a Bax work because of all the beautiful melodies and harmony. Bax is a resourceful orchestrator; the colours in his mind are so vivid that sometimes one is tempted to think there is impressionistic music before one but in actual fact there is thematic material there. To present the thematic material, to present the form of the work, poses great problems for the conductor. He has got to make sure that all the tiny joins between one passage and the next are made rather than shown because the more you sectionalize the music in favour of the sensuous sounds, the more damage you do to the form. Indeed I am reminded of a passage in Bax's autobiography, Farewell my Youth, when he says: I slammed the lid of the piano shut and went out because I could not think of a logical continuation. Now a man concerned about logical continuation is clearly concerned about form, not just pretty pictures."

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting this.

I have the Handley set with all symphonies. I like the first CD with the 1st and 3rd symphony but I had difficulties to get access to the others. I was disappointed.

Quote from: Martin Lind on October 14, 2016, 12:38:29 PM
I have the Handley set with all symphonies. I like the first CD with the 1st and 3rd symphony but I had difficulties to get access to the others. I was disappointed.

I listened to his version of No.5 the other day and found the opening (one of my favourite moments in Bax) to be played too fast and completely lacking in atmosphere compared to the fine Raymond Leppard version on Lyrita. I have been greatly enjoying the Lloyd-Jones Lyrita version of Symphony 6 following the exchanges above - maybe you would like this too.

I've never quite come to grips with Bax, but I'm listening to the 2nd with Myer Friedman on Lyrita now, and it certainly is magnificent.

Quote from: The new erato on October 15, 2016, 04:31:59 AM
I've never quite come to grips with Bax, but I'm listening to the 2nd with Myer Friedman on Lyrita now, and it certainly is magnificent.

That's a fine performance of a great symphony as is its companion on CD, Raymond Leppard's recording of Symphony No.5.

This is a fine performance of Symphony 2 from a 1956 broadcast. Also a brilliantly remastered atmospheric performance of 'Tintagel' from 1928. CD is dirt cheap on Amazon UK:
[asin]B000Q6ZGRU[/asin]

The 7th Symphony and Tintagel done. The Symphony is okay, nice epilogue. Tintagel was a disappointment.

Quote from: 71 dB on October 16, 2016, 07:38:02 AM
The 7th Symphony and Tintagel done. The Symphony is okay, nice epilogue. Tintagel was a disappointment.

Yes, the Epilogue is moving. Thanks for all the feedback on your listening experience and glad that Symphony 6 was a hit.
On to the symphonies of William Alwyn now! (Only joking).
8)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 16, 2016, 07:50:03 AM
Yes, the Epilogue is moving. Thanks for all the feedback on your listening experience and glad that Symphony 6 was a hit.

Yeah, I'll get the Naxos disc of 6.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 16, 2016, 07:50:03 AMOn to the symphonies of William Alwyn now! (Only joking).
8)

Maybe in the future.  ;)

Well done to both parties for endurance and perseverance  8)

Quote from: aligreto on October 16, 2016, 09:20:43 AM
Well done to both parties for endurance and perseverance  8)

Thanks!  :) Had I given up after the first few symphonies I wouldn't have discovered the sixth.  :o

Quote from: 71 dB on October 16, 2016, 09:38:02 AM
Thanks!  :) Had I given up after the first few symphonies I wouldn't have discovered the sixth.  :o

Persistence pays  ;)

Quote from: aligreto on October 16, 2016, 12:25:35 PM
Persistence pays  ;)

The Churchill quote below says it all I think!  ;)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 17, 2016, 07:48:53 AM
The Churchill quote below says it all I think!  ;)

Yes, I had missed that.
There is of course the quote from Irish poet Samuel Beckett: Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

Quote from: aligreto on October 17, 2016, 07:56:13 AM
Yes, I had missed that.
There is of course the quote from Irish poet Samuel Beckett: Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

Yes, I like that quote. Also the way in which Churchill signed off his messages to President Roosevelt during the Second World War:
'KBO' (keep buggering on)
Apologies for bad language.
8)

Quote from: vandermolen on October 17, 2016, 08:19:48 AM

'KBO' (keep buggering on)

;D

Well it certainly worked in this case  ;)

Quote from: aligreto on October 17, 2016, 10:44:55 AM
;D

Well it certainly worked in this case  ;)

Indeed!
:)

I've spent most of today listening to Bax symphonies as part of my ongoing revisitation and fresh discovery of British symphonies.

As usual, I want to say thanks to everyone who loves and doesn't massively appreciate Bax. It's a great education to be here. I love his sound world and am delighted to be listening with your help. I've also benefitted greatly from the Bax Society website while listening.

I don't dislike them, but I don't like them, either. I think his tone poems are more successful, even though I don't think very highly of them, either. What's the word for that, positive indifference? I do think they make for very fine background music once in a while.

Ouch!  Background music?  We'll have to agree to disagree there... Bax's soundworld, harmony and sometimes elusive use of form is much to complex to be relagated to the world of the partially ignored.  I can get that he is a bit of a marmite composer - as is Delius (another composer I personally adore).  But once you get his motivation and very individual style then there is magic to be found (and I'd say exactly the same about Delius too!)  If you've checked the Symphonies then do try Spring Fire - an early masterpiece quite different from his later more brooding music.

I love all the symphonies, including the 'weaker' ones (4 and 7).
I owe this forum thanks for introducing me to the magnificent Piano Quintet.
I also like Tintagel, Christmas Eve, Nympholept, Paen, Festival Overture, Symphonic Variations, Northern Ballad No.1 and November Woods. I'm less keen on the Violin and Cello Concerto.

Bax's symphonies are some of the most atmospheric, magical, colourful and epic symphonies I know. That epic element of the music appeals to me hugely. I've come to appreciate them very much over the years. As Jeffrey pointed out, I also find Nos. 4 and 7 like weaker, but the other five are just splendid. These works grow on you with repeated listens. My favorites are 6, 1 and 3, then 5 and 2, and finally 4 and 7.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 16, 2021, 03:01:36 PM
Bax's symphonies are some of the most atmospheric, magical, colourful and epic symphonies I know. That epic element of the music appeals to me hugely. I've come to appreciate them very much over the years. As Jeffrey pointed out, I also find Nos. 4 and 7 like weaker, but the other five are just splendid. These works grow on you with repeated listens. My favorites are 6, 1 and 3, then 5 and 2, and finally 4 and 7.

Can you define "epic" more specifically?  I am curious exactly how you mean that in reference to Bax.  For example, you might mean duration or volume or something - what exactly are you saying with that subjective description?

Quote from: relm1 on May 16, 2021, 04:03:50 PM
Can you define "epic" more specifically?  I am curious exactly how you mean that in reference to Bax.  For example, you might mean duration or volume or something - what exactly are you saying with that subjective description?

I feel "epicness" in many of their themes, melodies, in the big climaxes, in the passages where there is struggle, in the grandeur of the music itself. These works often depict something legendary and heroic to me, and I sum it up like epic. Other works that give me that feel of epic are Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 and Glière's Symphony No. 3.

I also find a 'legendary' quality in much of the music. The music is often brooding and troubled, which I find appealing. I've recently come to appreciate Symphony No.6 more. I much prefer the Lloyd-Jones recording to the rather boxed-in one by Del Mar on Lyrita (IMO the only disappointing Lyrita recording - the others would all be top choices for me). As I said I love all the symphonies - if I had to do a league table it would be: 5,3,7,4,6,2,1.

Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2021, 10:57:07 PM
I've recently come to appreciate Symphony No.6 more. I much prefer the Lloyd-Jones recording...

That's what I have and Symphony No. 6 is the Bax symphony I care about most.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 16, 2021, 04:57:42 PM
I feel "epicness" in many of their themes, melodies, in the big climaxes, in the passages where there is struggle, in the grandeur of the music itself. These works often depict something legendary and heroic to me, and I sum it up like epic. Other works that give me that feel of epic are Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 and Glière's Symphony No. 3.

Would you consider this as epic?  Or not quite because it doesn't have a legendary or quality to it?
https://youtu.be/qezaOJcWVXs?t=1945

Tintagel and the sixth symphony are top shelf imo.

Like his tone poems better. Think Bax does better in shorter forms.

Quote from: relm1 on May 17, 2021, 05:11:51 AM
Would you consider this as epic?  Or not quite because it doesn't have a legendary or quality to it?
https://youtu.be/qezaOJcWVXs?t=1945

No, I don't feel that epic element in Arnold's 5th. Probably that final passage tends to be closer to the term, but overall the symphony doesn't give me that perception. Another example I can bring here is Sibelius's 1st Symphony, or Atterberg's 1st Symphony. I feel those works epic. Or also Walton's 1st Symphony. Obviously this is my very personal opinion and bias.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 17, 2021, 02:59:17 AM
That's what I have and Symphony No. 6 is the Bax symphony I care about most.

I also like the Bryden Thomson recording.

I remember enjoying his Piano Quintet many years ago (on a Chandos cassette a friend lent me, which should tell you how long ago it was!) and kept meaning to explore more of his music, especially the symphonies, but like with so many things just never got around to it. Maybe now is the time! I'm finding myself tempted by the Handley box set on Chandos... would the "Baxians" (is that the correct word?!) on here recommend these recordings?

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjY3MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 18, 2021, 08:14:16 AM
I remember enjoying his Piano Quintet many years ago (on a Chandos cassette a friend lent me, which should tell you how long ago it was!) and kept meaning to explore more of his music, especially the symphonies, but like with so many things just never got around to it. Maybe now is the time! I'm finding myself tempted by the Handley box set on Chandos... would the "Baxians" (is that the correct word?!) on here recommend these recordings?

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjY3MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)

Hello Mountain Goat (nice user name - is that Havergal Brian in the photo?) My own view is that Handley's cycle is good but nothing special. Having said that, I've see Symphony No.3 recommended as a top choice. So, if the price is right I don't think that you'll be disappointed. Others may well rate the set more highly. I prefer the Lloyd-Jones and Bryden Thomson sets, as well as most of the individual Lyrita recordings.

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 18, 2021, 08:14:16 AM
Maybe now is the time! I'm finding myself tempted by the Handley box set on Chandos... would the "Baxians" (is that the correct word?!) on here recommend these recordings?

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMjY3MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI0ODR9)

I'm one of the few who like the Handley cycle. I tried for years to get into the Bax symphonies. Then I purchased the Handley box...and it finally clicked. I think it was due mainly to Handley's swifter tempos which helped me get through Bax's often meandering style. So yes, I recommend it...although I'll get little support here.

Sarge

Quote from: vandermolen on May 18, 2021, 08:29:46 AM
Hello Mountain Goat (nice user name - is that Havergal Brian in the photo?) My own view is that Handley's cycle is good but nothing special. Having said that, I've see Symphony No.3 recommended as a top choice. So, if the price is right I don't think that you'll be disappointed. Others may well rate the set more highly. I prefer the Lloyd-Jones and Bryden Thomson sets, as well as most of the individual Lyrita recordings.

Hi Vandermolen, thanks for you reply! That is indeed Havergal Brian, who I've been somewhat obsessed with ever since being completely blown away by the Gothic Symphony at the 2011 Proms.

I had my suspicions about the Handley set as hardly anyone has mentioned it in this thread, but the price is indeed right, although I'm also considering the Naxos recordings even though I would need to get these individually. There's a box set of Bryden Thomson's recordings, also on Chandos, but at higher cost and with the 4th symphony split between 2 CDs - not necessarily a deal-breaker but I consider this a major disadvantage!

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 18, 2021, 08:56:20 AM
I'm one of the few who like the Handley cycle. I tried for years to get into the Bax symphonies. Then I purchased the Handley box...and it finally clicked. I think it was due mainly to Handley's swifter tempos which helped me get through Bax's often meandering style. So yes, I recommend it...although I'll get little support here.

Sarge

Thanks for your reply! It just goes to show that it's all down to personal taste, there will never be a "definitive" recording. I'll probably listen to samples of both Handley and Lloyd-Jones (Naxos) before actually buying anything, but I suspect I'll end up going with Handley, the price + the convenience of a single box set is just too tempting!

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 18, 2021, 09:08:25 AM
Hi Vandermolen, thanks for you reply! That is indeed Havergal Brian, who I've been somewhat obsessed with ever since being completely blown away by the Gothic Symphony at the 2011 Proms.

I had my suspicions about the Handley set as hardly anyone has mentioned it in this thread, but the price is indeed right, although I'm also considering the Naxos recordings even though I would need to get these individually. There's a box set of Bryden Thomson's recordings, also on Chandos, but at higher cost and with the 4th symphony split between 2 CDs - not necessarily a deal-breaker but I consider this a major disadvantage!

My pleasure. I'm sure that you'll enjoy the Handley set and in view of Sarge's comments I feel that I need to hear the box set again myself. Not only was I at the 2011 performance of the Gothic Symphony, where I had the pleasure of meeting, in the pub, some other members of this forum, but I was also at the 1980 performance conducted by Ole Schmidt, which was the first time that I heard the work.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 18, 2021, 08:56:20 AM
I'm one of the few who like the Handley cycle. I tried for years to get into the Bax symphonies. Then I purchased the Handley box...and it finally clicked. I think it was due mainly to Handley's swifter tempos which helped me get through Bax's often meandering style. So yes, I recommend it...although I'll get little support here.

Sarge

I also really enjoy the Handley cycle for his swifter-than-normal tempi. He may not be as "atmospheric" as others, but the atmosphere in Bax's music speaks for itself; it's the music's structure and forward momentum that need the conductor's "help", and that's exactly what Handley gives it. Oh, and the sonics are great too!

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 16, 2021, 03:01:36 PM
Bax's symphonies are some of the most atmospheric, magical, colourful and epic symphonies I know. That epic element of the music appeals to me hugely. I've come to appreciate them very much over the years. As Jeffrey pointed out, I also find Nos. 4 and 7 like weaker, but the other five are just splendid. These works grow on you with repeated listens. My favorites are 6, 1 and 3, then 5 and 2, and finally 4 and 7.

That would be precisely my ranking of the Bax symphonies as well! ;) I still haven't quite appreciated 4 and 7 as a whole, though 4 has a splendid opening movement and 7 has a most beautiful closing movement. Other Bax works which mean a great deal to me are the tone poems Tintagel, November Woods, and In Memoriam, the Piano Concertino, Piano Quintet, Harp Quintet, and String Quartet no. 1. In fact, I'd even place most of them above the symphonies in my affections. Some truly wondrous music to be found there.

Quote from: kyjo on May 19, 2021, 09:17:00 AM
That would be precisely my ranking of the Bax symphonies as well! ;) I still haven't quite appreciated 4 and 7 as a whole, though 4 has a splendid opening movement and 7 has a most beautiful closing movement. Other Bax works which mean a great deal to me are the tone poems Tintagel, November Woods, and In Memoriam, the Piano Concertino, Piano Quintet, Harp Quintet, and String Quartet no. 1. In fact, I'd even place most of them above the symphonies in my affections. Some truly wondrous music to be found there.

I think that I have you and Cesar to thank Kyle for alerting me to the wonders of the Piano Quintet!

Quote from: kyjo on May 19, 2021, 09:10:59 AM
I also really enjoy the Handley cycle for his swifter-than-normal tempi. He may not be as "atmospheric" as others, but the atmosphere in Bax's music speaks for itself; it's the music's structure and forward momentum that need the conductor's "help", and that's exactly what Handley gives it. Oh, and the sonics are great too!

Excellent, it seems the Handley cycle has more fans here than I thought! I've made up my mind to order that set tomorrow (and will probably throw in the Daniel Jones symphonies 3+5 while I'm at it).

Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2021, 10:21:17 AM
I think that I have you and Cesar to thank Kyle for alerting me to the wonders of the Piano Quintet!

It's such a great work, isn't it? Speaking of his chamber works, I was listening to this CD yesterday and enjoying it greatly:

[asin]B000005Z6K[/asin]

Many of the works featured here feature unusual instrumental combinations, which makes for some really colorful listening. Not to mention the performances are absolutely superb! Bax is one of those composers whose music can be killed by a poor performance IMO, and it's great to hear his music being played with such passionate advocacy as it is here.

The Handley set arrived on Monday (together with Daniel Jones symphonies 3+5 and David Matthews symphony 8  + A Vision of the Sea) and I'm really enjoying it so far! Once again I'm wondering why I waited so long to explore this composer.

There were a couple of passages in the 2nd symphony which reminded me a little of Havergal Brian, which made me wonder if Brian was influenced by Bax.

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 25, 2021, 09:02:07 AM
The Handley set arrived on Monday (together with Daniel Jones symphonies 3+5 and David Matthews symphony 8  + A Vision of the Sea) and I'm really enjoying it so far! Once again I'm wondering why I waited so long to explore this composer.

There were a couple of passages in the 2nd symphony which reminded me a little of Havergal Brian, which made me wonder if Brian was influenced by Bax.

Excellent! This has encouraged me to revisit the Handley boxed set.

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 25, 2021, 09:02:07 AM
The Handley set arrived on Monday (together with Daniel Jones symphonies 3+5 and David Matthews symphony 8  + A Vision of the Sea) and I'm really enjoying it so far! Once again I'm wondering why I waited so long to explore this composer.

There were a couple of passages in the 2nd symphony which reminded me a little of Havergal Brian, which made me wonder if Brian was influenced by Bax.

I have also just pulled the Handley cycle to work through. I am completely convinced of Bax as a major composer and love his music, so I look forward to putting this alongside the Thompson and DLJ versions. I know I am unusual amongst folk who post on GMG, but I am usually not very interested in owning numerous cycles and interpretations of the same works once I have a couple, but it will be interesting to explore these.

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 26, 2021, 01:49:10 AM
I have also just pulled the Handley cycle to work through. I am completely convinced of Bax as a major composer and love his music, so I look forward to putting this alongside the Thompson and DLJ versions. I know I am unusual amongst folk who post on GMG, but I am usually not very interested in owning numerous cycles and interpretations of the same works once I have a couple, but it will be interesting to explore these.

With Bax I would certainly seek out any and every disc of his music (and as much of the sheet music - preferably in original editions!) as I can.  But with many other composers I end up with multiple versions almost by accident.  I don't conciously buy them in the sense of "I must have 10 cycles of Beethoven symphonies" but somehow along the way I might end up with that number!  Mainly because with music I like a lot I'm seeking versions that add to my appreciation and understanding of the music.  I'm not sure any single performance of any great work can have all the "answers" about that work.  Also, over time my appreciation of a particular conductor/performer may wax or wane.  So with the former, I'll want to expand my knowledge of them as a conductor across a range of composers -  Stanislaw Skrowaczewski is someone who I've very recently begun to fully appreciate for just what a good conductor he was....

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2021, 02:41:25 AM
With Bax I would certainly seek out any and every disc of his music (and as much of the sheet music - preferably in original editions!) as I can.  But with many other composers I end up with multiple versions almost by accident.  I don't conciously buy them in the sense of "I must have 10 cycles of Beethoven symphonies" but somehow along the way I might end up with that number!  Mainly because with music I like a lot I'm seeking versions that add to my appreciation and understanding of the music.  I'm not sure any single performance of any great work can have all the "answers" about that work.  Also, over time my appreciation of a particular conductor/performer may wax or wane.  So with the former, I'll want to expand my knowledge of them as a conductor across a range of composers -  Stanislaw Skrowaczewski is someone who I've very recently begun to fully appreciate for just what a good conductor he was....

I suspect, despite listening to serious music for a good many years, that my lack of musical understanding has a lot to do with it. I think if I 'understood' music rather than simply feeling it, I would be more committed to understanding which interpretation is closer to the score, or which works better with three minims and eight crotchets rather than four semibreves etc... I feel my inferiority there. I am left simply with how the music makes me feel and whether I enjoy it, which of course, has value, but is my only benchmark. For that reason, my limited capacity means that I can only process a small number of alternatives with any meaningful added value. I also don't particularly enjoy the granular drilling down into whether a performance is 'dreadful', 'woeful', 'poor', 'adequate', 'excellent', etc, probably because I don't have the verbal and musical weaponry to be able to quantify that. I find I want to understand what I am hearing in the music, rather than some of the comparatives with each performance. I find much more than that to be distracting from enjoying the nuances in each performance that I do own. I understand that is my lack and perhaps in time my competence will grow. I am also conscious that there are hundreds of composers I want to hear, and that I have a limited time to do so... if I listen to 10 cycles of Bruckner, say, then I can't listen to a cycle of Hovhaness, Diamond, Pavlova, etc etc. Rambling now.

As for gathering as much of Bax is possible, I am in. I do want to hear everything he wrote and appreciate its depth and beauty, but probably only in a couple of versions at most. I am very much enjoying the symphonies above all else, presently.

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 26, 2021, 01:49:10 AMI know I am unusual amongst folk who post on GMG, but I am usually not very interested in owning numerous cycles and interpretations of the same works once I have a couple, but it will be interesting to explore these.

That makes me unusual too - when both money and storage space are limited, I don't see much value in using it on music I already have, when there is still so much music I don't!

Still enjoying the Handley set - I've heard the first 6 symphonies now. No. 6 is a clear favourite so far, probably followed by No. 3.

Quote from: vandermolen on May 18, 2021, 10:19:35 AM
Not only was I at the 2011 performance of the Gothic Symphony, where I had the pleasure of meeting, in the pub, some other members of this forum, but I was also at the 1980 performance conducted by Ole Schmidt, which was the first time that I heard the work.

That must have been an experience! I hope to be able to manage 2 performances of the Gothic in my lifetime - I was briefly excited a few years ago when a performance in Braunschweig was advertised, but it never went ahead. Hopefully it won't be another 30 years anyway! Hearing some of his other symphonies live occasionally would be nice too - I've managed so far to attend performances of 19 and 27, but they don't happen very often.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2021, 02:41:25 AM
With Bax I would certainly seek out any and every disc of his music (and as much of the sheet music - preferably in original editions!) as I can.  But with many other composers I end up with multiple versions almost by accident.  I don't conciously buy them in the sense of "I must have 10 cycles of Beethoven symphonies" but somehow along the way I might end up with that number!  Mainly because with music I like a lot I'm seeking versions that add to my appreciation and understanding of the music.  I'm not sure any single performance of any great work can have all the "answers" about that work.  Also, over time my appreciation of a particular conductor/performer may wax or wane.  So with the former, I'll want to expand my knowledge of them as a conductor across a range of composers -  Stanislaw Skrowaczewski is someone who I've very recently begun to fully appreciate for just what a good conductor he was....

Coincidentally, at lunch today I was talking to one of the musicians at the school where I teach. He had studied conducting with many well known figures and spoke especially highly of Skrowaczewski. I own an excellent CD of him conducting Shostakovich's 10th symphony.

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 26, 2021, 03:10:20 AM
I suspect, despite listening to serious music for a good many years, that my lack of musical understanding has a lot to do with it. I think if I 'understood' music rather than simply feeling it, I would be more committed to understanding which interpretation is closer to the score, or which works better with three minims and eight crotchets rather than four semibreves etc... I feel my inferiority there. I am left simply with how the music makes me feel and whether I enjoy it, which of course, has value, but is my only benchmark. For that reason, my limited capacity means that I can only process a small number of alternatives with any meaningful added value. I also don't particularly enjoy the granular drilling down into whether a performance is 'dreadful', 'woeful', 'poor', 'adequate', 'excellent', etc, probably because I don't have the verbal and musical weaponry to be able to quantify that. I find I want to understand what I am hearing in the music, rather than some of the comparatives with each performance. I find much more than that to be distracting from enjoying the nuances in each performance that I do own. I understand that is my lack and perhaps in time my competence will grow. I am also conscious that there are hundreds of composers I want to hear, and that I have a limited time to do so... if I listen to 10 cycles of Bruckner, say, then I can't listen to a cycle of Hovhaness, Diamond, Pavlova, etc etc. Rambling now.

As for gathering as much of Bax is possible, I am in. I do want to hear everything he wrote and appreciate its depth and beauty, but probably only in a couple of versions at most. I am very much enjoying the symphonies above all else, presently.

Interesting and not rambling at all. I can't read music and therefore my response is purely intuitive. Glad you are enjoying the Bax. You have to hear the Piano Quintet if you don't already know it.

Quote from: vandermolen on May 26, 2021, 12:20:50 PM
Interesting and not rambling at all. I can't read music and therefore my response is purely intuitive. Glad you are enjoying the Bax. You have to hear the Piano Quintet if you don't already know it.

Thanks for being kind. Also, the Piano Quintet is a winner, without a doubt! Tone poems, next...

Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 26, 2021, 10:22:04 AM
That makes me unusual too - when both money and storage space are limited, I don't see much value in using it on music I already have, when there is still so much music I don't!

Still enjoying the Handley set - I've heard the first 6 symphonies now. No. 6 is a clear favourite so far, probably followed by No. 3.

I moved to using streaming services a while ago, having also ripped about a thousand of my own CDs to mp3, before gifting the hard copies. I also have an inordinate amount of previously downloaded music, so the shift was ok. Space and cost savings all in one.

Like you, I want to experience breadth not just depth during the windows when I'm able to listen to music. I know others do also, but I am making priorities that best fit, I guess.

I do love 3 and 6. Not as much as 1, maybe, but that trinity leads the pack right now.

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 26, 2021, 02:19:42 PM
Thanks for being kind. Also, the Piano Quintet is a winner, without a doubt! Tone poems, next...

Also the Harp Quintet - lovely work.