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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Dundonnell on November 22, 2008, 04:14:11 PM

Title: Julius Röntgen
Post by: Dundonnell on November 22, 2008, 04:14:11 PM
WARNING: this is not a "this is a great undiscovered genius and I want to tell you all about him" sort of thread ;D

It seems to me that if a composer writes a very large number of symphonies, many of them in quick succession towards the end of his life and does not live to hear them performed and is-to an extent-outside the zeitgeist of his times there is the real possibility of a posthumous cult-status.

Composers like Havergal Brian in Britain and Alan Hovhaness in the USA have their devoted adherents who, over time, have had growing success in persuading others of the intrinsic worth of the music composed. Sometimes-as, I would argue, with Brian, there is a substantial body of great music to be uncovered.

The Dutch/German composer, Julius Rontgen, wrote 21 symphonies(according to the list on the Julius Rontgen Foundation website-
http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/composities/symfonischeMuziek.html
There were two further early symphonies which are lost. Of the extant symphonies, 20 were written between 1926 and 1932, 8 in 1930 and 7 in 1931.

There is the afore-mentioned Rontgen Foundation in the Netherlands and the German record company CPO intends, apparently, a complete set of the symphonies(Nos. 3 and 10 have been released and No.18 is soon to join them; the numbering of the symphonies is a major headache!).

Now I just can't quite get my head round this ;D The Rontgen that I have heard is undoubtedly pleasant in an ultra-conservative style-a Dutch Max Bruch? (Rontgen was born in Leipzig but settled in the Netherlands in his twenties and ended up as Director of the Amsterdam Conservatory.) But..there do seem to me to be a large number of Dutch composers of more interest than Rontgen and who are more deserving of exposure(Andriessen, Pijper, Vermeulen, Badings, Orthel to name a few). Most of these are beginning to receive attention but Rontgen seems to be getting rather more than his fair share! On the evidence so far he was no musical genius.

I know that I will upset Harry(and probably others) who really appreciate Rontgen's music. Apologies in advance! I just find this new found interest in Rontgen slightly puzzling ;D
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Christo on November 28, 2008, 06:04:53 AM
I won't question your general verdict. But I do confess a genuine liking for some of the `later Röntgen', when he was retired, living in a quiet villa (`Gaudeamus') nearby my hometown and composing for his own pleasure and in a much freeer way than before. So far (as I only know a handful of them) my personal favourite is the Symphony [No. 4?] in C sharp minor (`Symphonie in cis kl.t. Herrn Generalmusikdirektor Carl Schuricht zugeeignet') from 1930.

I'm not quite sure about the number attached to it, nowadays (No. 4?). I first heard it live in an amateur performance (an Utrecht Conservatory orchestra) that was also released on CD. But there's a professional reading available: Netherlands Radio Symphony Orchestra under Jac van Steen, with soprano Roberta Alexander singing the beautiful vocalise part, at NM-Classics CD 92096:

                     (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8713309920963.jpg)

In a similar vein are two other `late' symphonies - the Bitonal Symphony of 1930 and the Symphony in A minor of 1931, again without a clear indication of their actual numbers, done by the Noord-Nederlands Orkest under Hans Leenders, Cobra Records 0017:
                     (http://home.wirehub.nl/~jrontgen/Cobra_0017.jpg)

I still have to investigate the more recent releases of CPO, especially the one with the large `Aus Goethes Faust', but also symphonies 10 and 18. Harry, or anyone, on these?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203731121.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w183/front/0/0761203725526.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w183/front/0/0761203730827.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 08:07:04 AM
That is very interesting, Johan :) (I was wondering whether anyone else would post on this thread :))

The later Rontgen does begin to sound more interesting. I must confess that I did find bits of "Aus Goethes Faust" quite impressive-and a lot better than the rather weak Symphony No.3! Symphony No.10 left no great impression on me either but I shall order Symphony No.18(which is scheduled for release by CPO early in December). The three Cello Concertos are pleasantly attractive works too.

I must go back and play the disc I burned of three more Rontgen symphonies-the Bitonal, the Symphony in C sharp minor and the Symphony in A minor(numbers?).

It just seemed to me that when CPO is finished there will be 20 Rontgen symphonies on disc. That is a huge investment of time, energy and money. There are other composers who deserve just as much ;D
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Christo on November 28, 2008, 08:20:24 AM
There are other composers who deserve just as much ;D

A typical (British) type of understatement, no doubt?  ;) Goo that you like Aus Goethes Faust and yes, Symphony No. 18 is only to be released next month.

From Jurriaan Vis, his biographer I learnt that in his own life-time, Röntgen was mostly popular for his `folk-style' pieces, e.g. the ancient Dutch dances that will be included in this coming release, and also other pieces as those combined with the Tenth Symphony. You seem to own that CD - is there anything positive to be said about these accompanying pieces in his `old-Dutch' style??

      (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203730827.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Opus106 on November 28, 2008, 08:30:30 AM
Off-topic: Chirsto, do you know whose painting is on the cover of Sym. 10 album?

And for some thing on topic, the only work I've heard by this composer is the piano trio No. 4 which I liked. :)
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 08:33:04 AM
Ah, you recognize the attempt to be polite ;D

Actually, I do think that the lighter pieces work as well-if not better-than the symphonies I have heard. The Old Netherlands Suite of 1907 on the disc you mention is a jolly piece. There is absolutely nothing profound about it but it does not aspire to profoundity. Taken on its own merits it is an eminently satisfying work reflecting the composer's interest in Dutch folk music and folk songs-which don't seem to have any appeal for any other prominent Dutch composers with whom I am acquainted. It is richly scored, melodious, tasteful and certainly worth hearing! A Dutch Dvorak with a lot of Brahms thrown in ;D
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 08:36:40 AM
Off-topic: Chirsto, do you know whose painting is on the cover of Sym. 10 album?

And for some thing on topic, the only work I've heard by this composer is the piano trio No. 4 which I liked. :)

If I can answer your question-

  the painting is actually van Gogh's 'Die Ebene bei Auvers'(1890)
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Opus106 on November 28, 2008, 08:47:47 AM
If I can answer your question-

  the painting is actually van Gogh's 'Die Ebene bei Auvers'(1890)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Christo on November 28, 2008, 08:52:18 AM
If I can answer your question-  the painting is actually van Gogh's 'Die Ebene bei Auvers' (1890)

I'm not that sure about Van Gogh's command of German - my guess would be that this `Plain near Auvers' is often given this German title because it's in the collection of the Neue Pinakothek in Munich.

Taken on its own merits it is an eminently satisfying work reflecting the composer's interest in Dutch folk music and folk songs-which don't seem to have any appeal for any other prominent Dutch composers with whom I am acquainted. It is richly scored, melodious, tasteful and certainly worth hearing! A Dutch Dvorak with a lot of Brahms thrown in ;D

Very interesting, many thanks! I know of a few other folk music-inspired Dutch composers, though. My favourite example would be Bernard Zweers' Third Symphony (1890) `To My Fatherland', my favourite Dutch 19th C. symphony overall. Another example in a similar vein, but by a lesser composer: Cornelis Dopper, especially his Seventh Symphony (1917) 'Zuiderzee'.

But you are right: I cannot think of a Dutch equivalent to e.g. Falla, Kodály, or Vaughan Williams.
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 08:57:10 AM
I had forgotten Zweers and Dopper :( Thank you for reminding me!

I am attempting to make sense of the numbering of Rontgen's symphonies using the Julius Rontgen Foundation website.

http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/composities/symfonischeMuziek.html

I may need psychiatric help very soon ;D ;D
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 09:14:38 AM
If the 'Walzersymphonie' in D is No.10 and if it was the fourth composed in 1930(as Jurgen Vis sais in his CPO notes) then the Symphony in C sharp minor for soprano and orchestra is not No.4 :) It could be any number between 7 and 14(except 10) depending on when it was composed in relations to its fellow from 1930. Similarly with the Bitonal Symphony. The Symphony in A minor from 1931 must be numbered between 15 and 21.

I do not know exactly which symphony is No.18 since CPO do not give it a key signature on their pre-release publicity!

Now I need to lie down ;D
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Bulldog on November 28, 2008, 09:24:57 AM
I know that I will upset Harry(and probably others) who really appreciate Rontgen's music. Apologies in advance! I just find this new found interest in Rontgen slightly puzzling ;D

Nothing puzzling about the attention Rontgen is getting.  His music is well constructed with highly memorable themes.  Personally, I find the Cello Concerto No. 2 a masterpiece, and many of his other works are close behind.
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on November 28, 2008, 09:49:24 AM
Nothing puzzling about the attention Rontgen is getting.  His music is well constructed with highly memorable themes.  Personally, I find the Cello Concerto No. 2 a masterpiece, and many of his other works are close behind.

If I have underestimated Rontgen nothing would give me greater pleasure ;D I love discovering good music which has been neglected previously ;D ;D

It will be a voyage of discovery :)
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: jimmosk on January 06, 2009, 11:31:44 PM
Arriving a little late to the discussion, nevertheless I will be Roentgen's champion.  I think he's an uncommonly inventive tunesmith, and prolific without always sounding the same. There's a great anecdote to the effect that his friend (and admittedly his compositional better) Johannes Brahms had to apologize to Roentgen, once it was pointed out that the main theme in the first movement of Brahms' Second had been inadvertently plagiarized from Roentgen's Serenade for winds -- Brahms had heard it at some point and unconsciously filed the melody away as a Good Idea!

It also happens that one of my absolute favorite moments in Romantic-era triumphant orchestral music comes during Roentgen's 1930 Symphonie.  Here it is; this is something that I'd put alongside Rachmaninov's Second or Glazunov's Fifth:
[mp3=200,20,0]http://jimmosk1.home.comcast.net/RoentgenSym1930_excerpt.mp3[/mp3]

Anyone who can write like that deserves some attention. I encourage everyone to check out that Symphony, the String Quartet in A minor, or this disc http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5223 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5223) of works for piano four-hands. No, Roentgen shouldn't be as famous as Brahms... but he should certainly be more than a hundredth as famous, which seems to be the current situation.

-J
Title: Re: Julius Rontgen?
Post by: Christo on January 07, 2009, 12:43:56 AM
It also happens that one of my absolute favorite moments in Romantic-era triumphant orchestral music comes during Roentgen's 1930 Symphonie.  Here it is; this is something that I'd put alongside Rachmaninov's Second or Glazunov's Fifth:
[mp3=200,20,0]http://jimmosk1.home.comcast.net/RoentgenSym1930_excerpt.mp3[/mp3]

Yes, that is the Symphony in C sharp minor (`Symphonie in cis kl.t. Herrn Generalmusikdirektor Carl Schuricht zugeeignet') from 1930 I have been referring to a few times as my personal favourite.

It was the piece that brought Röntgen to my attention. I heard it play live by the Conservatory's orchestra here in Utrecht, somewhere in the mid-1990s and was as surprised as you are about the total neglect of it. It is still not included in the ongoing CPO series, but can be found on a NM Classics CD showed before in this thread - and that's the version you offer us here too. Many thanks for sharing!  :)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2009, 08:45:26 AM
WARNING: this is not a "this is a great undiscovered genius and I want to tell you all about him" sort of thread ;D


What's the fun in that?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Dundonnell on January 07, 2009, 09:03:19 AM
What's the fun in that?  ;D ;D

I don't know whether you build up a mental picture of other members here, Jeffrey, based on the content of their posts ;D I know that I do :)

Like you, I sometimes get accused of trumpeting the claims of forgotten composers who really rather deserve the obscurity into which their music has shrunk. I can live with that :) In many(though not all) cases the music does not deserve such a fate.

I am not asserting for one nanosecond that Rontgen deserves musical obscurity. I just wanted to make clear that in starting the thread I didn't want anybody to think that this was a composer about whom I was about to wax lyrical. I am yet to be convinced that Rontgen deserves the massive amount of attention he is receiving and will be receiving at the expense of other greater composers ;D

Now that CPO has committed itself to recording the music of composers like Badings, Pijper and van Gilse I don't feel so 'irked' by the attention given to Rontgen. And.....IF I change my mind about him after hearing more of the music-as I very well might-then I shall be very happy indeed :)

Sorry...this probably sounds an extremely pompous and self-righteous response to your jest but I just wanted to clarify my attitude to dear Julius ;D ;D
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2009, 02:24:16 PM
Of course I understand that Colin. As I have probably mentioned before my brother said that my wife was 'doomed to years of listening to music by deservedly neglected composers' (at a speech at my wedding). However, this thread on Rontgen that you have started and the interesting discussion which has followed really makes me want to explore his music.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 23, 2009, 11:17:23 AM
Just obtained & am now listening to my first Röntgen discs - amazingly from the liner notes, he had approximately 650 compositions, much of which is chamber music (had a bunch of sons who played various instruments by two wives) - a great friend of Grieg w/ an interest in both Dutch & Norwegian folk music/legends - would really be interested in hearing his chamber works; plus, the duo piano disc mentioned above sounds outstanding -  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/460180428_Gvn4N-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/460180432_4dfdt-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Renfield on March 20, 2010, 11:53:57 AM
Interesting news for Röntgen fans: a previously-lost symphony. (http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/all-news/symphony-160310)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Christo on March 20, 2010, 02:51:42 PM
Great news indeed! Let's hope CPO will allow conductor David Porcelijn to include it in his recordings of the complete symphonic cycle - if that is ever going to be completed.  ::)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen? - his first wife, Amanda Maier was also a composer
Post by: Scion7 on November 16, 2014, 09:50:47 PM
I quite like her Violin Sonata in b-minor.

(http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/amanda2_250.jpg)

Amanda Carolina Erica Maier received her first violin and piano lessons from her father, who himself had obtained the “Musikdirektörsexamen” at the Royal Conservatory in Stockholm in 1852. When she was sixteen she too was admitted to this conservatory where, three years later, she would take the conducting exam as the first and up until this day only woman in Sweden and achieved the highest possible results in the subjects violin, piano, organ, composition, counterpoint, music history and aesthetics.
From 1873 until 1876 she continued to study in Leipzig with Engelbert Röntgen, leader of the Gewandhausorchester, Carl Reinecke, composer and conductor and Ernst Friedrich Richter, cantor and music theoretician (harmonics and counterpoint). During this period she befriended Edvard Grieg and Julius Röntgen and composed a trio for piano, violin and cello, a sonata for violin and piano which in 1875 won the prize of the Swedish Royal Music Academy and a violin concerto which she premièred very successfully on 8 February 1876 in Leipzig with the Gewandhausorchester conducted by Carl Reinecke.
Between 1876 and 1880 she undertook three large tours with her friends, the soprano Louise Pyk and the pianist Augusta Kjellander. In 1876 they gave a series of concerts in Sweden, in 1878 they performed 31 concerts in 26 Swedish and Norwegian cities and in 1879 they toured several countries including Finland and Russia.
On 28 July 1880 she married Julius Röntgen in Landskrona; the couple settled in Amsterdam. By getting married her career as a violinist came to an end and she no longer performed in public. She did continue to play within the family circle, composed several works together with her husband and entertained many well-known musicians, including Rubinstein, Joachim, Brahms and Grieg.
In 1881 her first son Julius jr. was born and in 1886 a second son, Engelbert, followed. The last seven years of her life she was often ill, probably as a result of a tuberculosis infection she contracted years before.
The Danish singer Bodil de Neergaard-Hartmann (1867-1959), wife of Viggo de Neergaard, at whose manor house Fuglsang the Röntgen family spent many musical summers since 1892, called her: “The interesting and amiable Amanda who, wherever she went, would always be the centre of attention despite her modesty and total lack of aggression”.
    In 1994 Lennart Lundholm, music teacher Drottningsgården 167, 26146 Landskrona, Sweden, wrote an extensive biography of Amanda Maier.Amanda Maier’s diaries and printed and non-printed compositions were donated to Statens Musikbibliotek in Stockholm in 1997.


Published compositions
   ▪   Sonata in B minor for violin and piano
“Till min käre fader”, 1878
   ▪   Six pieces for violin and piano, 1879
   ▪   “Zwiegespräche” for piano
(composed together with Julius)
   ▪   Schwedische Weisen und Tänze
(composed together with Julius)
   ▪   Quartet in E minor for piano, violin, viola and cello, 1891
   ▪   An orchestra transcription of the aforementioned Six pieces for violin and piano by Fr. Rosenkranz
Unpublished compositions
   ▪   Romance for violin and piano
   ▪   Trio for piano, violin and cello
   ▪   Violin concerto
   ▪   Nordiska Tonbilder for violin and piano
   ▪   Intermezzo for piano
   ▪   Two string quartets
   ▪   March for piano, violin, viola and cello
   ▪   Romances to texts by David af Wirsén
   ▪   Den sjuka flickans sång
   ▪   Aftonklockan
   ▪   Ungt mod
   ▪   Sången
   ▪   Trio for piano and two violins
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 17, 2014, 11:52:01 AM
I've always felt with Röntgen that his music isn't as good as it sounds.

(That's not original by the way, but I can't remember which composer said it about which other composer).

 :)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Scion7 on November 17, 2014, 01:34:41 PM
Well he's obviously not Dvorak, but he wrote solid material.  He was also pretty consistent.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 17, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
I think he's miles better than Dvorak!

 ;)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Daverz on November 17, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
I have this CD:



I quite enjoy this unpretentious music, and that's all that matters to me.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: amw on November 17, 2014, 11:16:57 PM
I have this CD:



I quite enjoy this unpretentious, direct, tuneful, and happy music, and that's all that matters to me.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: schnittkease on June 03, 2018, 11:43:37 AM
I am here to profess my love for Röntgen's 1st Violin Concerto [in A minor]. I truly don't think it has a single weak moment and am dumbfounded as to why it is not talked about more often.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Y7La4-Zr0HQ
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: Daverz on June 03, 2018, 12:10:55 PM
And I can highly recommend the Cello Concerto No. 2:


Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 03, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
I only know two of his string quartets and the String Sextet. All those works are very nice. I'll be interested in listening to his concertos and symphonies soon. Röntgen was incredibly prolific, there are plenty of works to discover.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on June 03, 2018, 01:33:41 PM
BOY!  Julius Röntgen (1855-1932) - looking through this short thread, I have just one post back in 2009 and must have just started to collect his wide variety of recordings - one of my interests, as a retired radiologist, was his relationship to Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen, discoverer of X-rays - indeed they were distant cousins (see first pice below - Source (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/familie/niet-de-beroemde/)) - I now have 10 CDs of this composer (listed in the quote) - one has an interesting cover w/ a chest X-ray.  Now, I've not listened to these in a while but have pulled out the stack and will in the upcoming days.  Thanks for the reminder - Dave :)

Quote
Cello Concertos, No. 1-3 - Muruzabai (Et’Cetera)
Chamber Music - Royal Conservatory Canada (RCA)
Piano Trios, No. 6, 9, 10 - Storioni Trio (MP3)
String Trios, No. 1-4 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
String Trios, No. 5-8 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
Symphony  No. 3 + Suite - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony Nos. 6, 5, & 19 - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony No. 10 et al - Porcelijn (CPO)
Violin Concertos - Ferschtman/Porcelijn (CPO)
Wind Serenades - Linos Ensemble (CPO)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-6ZB43CJ/0/20bf0f46/O/Rontgen1.png) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-WLHWGmX/0/54804bae/O/Rontgen2.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: kyjo on June 03, 2018, 03:30:21 PM
Röntgen is a very fine composer. Everything I’ve heard so far from his pen has melodic memorability, harmonic freshness, and textural variety. His music reflects the influences of his friends Brahms and Grieg, but has a marked individuality to it. I’m quite grateful to CPO for the royal treatment they’ve given him through their excellent recordings of his music.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: Brewski on June 04, 2018, 04:24:47 AM
Also new to Röntgen here, and should fix that, so I appreciate all the recommendations. And as an aside, in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, it's a measure of his stature that he is one of the composers whose names are incised on the balcony. (Mahler is dead-center.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: Christo on June 04, 2018, 08:44:57 PM
Also new to Röntgen here, and should fix that, so I appreciate all the recommendations. And as an aside, in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, it's a measure of his stature that he is one of the composers whose names are incised on the balcony. (Mahler is dead-center.)

--Bruce
Dutch composers' names on the balcony are not so much a reflection of their stature - but of the fact that their compositions were premiered here: Röntgen, Verhulst, Zweers, Wagenaar, Diepenbrock, Dopper, Pijper.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on June 07, 2018, 06:44:30 AM
Well for those interested in Röntgen's chamber music, some newer considerations - just ordered the 3rd & 4th volumes of the String Trios w/ the Lendvai String Trio - also, the 2nd volume of the Piano Trios w/ the Storioni Trio is available, but at $20 Amazon Prime - might wait until I earn some VISA credit - for those interested, I left PDF attachments of reviews of the earlier releases from both of these groups recently in the 'Listening Thread'.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FCuFveIIL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71OCpyaUE6L._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Ws%2Bqm9VEL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 28, 2018, 08:02:33 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203711925.jpg)

I'm waiting patiently for the complete recordings of his symphonies. Meanwhile, I'm checking the ones that are recorded and I put the Symphony No. 3 on the player, and what a terrific work this is. As it uses to be with this composer, the music is neither revolutionary nor challenging, but it is fresh, well-crafted and has personality. This work is dramatic (it's in C minor if it helps) featuring stormy moments and struggles. After the tension, all is solved by a majestic and even cathartic ending. Very impressive with no hesitation.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: kyjo on December 28, 2018, 08:37:38 PM
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203711925.jpg)

I'm waiting patiently for the complete recordings of his symphonies. Meanwhile, I'm checking the ones that are recorded and I put the Symphony No. 3 on the player, and what a terrific work this is. As it uses to be with this composer, the music is neither revolutionary nor challenging, but it is fresh, well-crafted and has personality. This work is dramatic (it's in C minor if it helps) featuring stormy moments and struggles. After the tension, all is solved by a majestic and even cathartic ending. Very impressive with no hesitation.

I like this symphony very much, especially the powerful and as you say, cathartic ending. Also, the accompanying Suite "Aus Jotunheim" is a really charming work. Rontgen's music never fails to please.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen?
Post by: kyjo on December 28, 2018, 08:39:34 PM
And I can highly recommend the Cello Concerto No. 2:



I discovered this recently - what a fantastic work! Though written in a comfortable late-romantic style, it's remarkably fresh and original and sounds like no other cello concerto I know.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: mc ukrneal on January 16, 2019, 08:15:49 AM
Does anyone know if they will record any more of his symphonies? So far CPO have done: 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 15, 18, 19, an 21. The most recent issue was from late 2017 I think.

EDIT The previous release before 2017 was from 2013. I hope we don't have to wait another 4 years.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 16, 2019, 09:18:59 AM
Does anyone know if they will record any more of his symphonies? So far CPO have done: 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 15, 18, 19, an 21. The most recent issue was from late 2017 I think.

EDIT The previous release before 2017 was from 2013. I hope we don't have to wait another 4 years.

At the moment, I have 3 discs w/ the Symphonies (3,5,6,10,19) - looking at Röntgen's Website (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/werk/lijst-van-composities/symfonische-muziek/), there are 21 works listed in the 'Symphonic Category' (see pic below) - however, these are not numbered there, and when looking at my CPO liner notes, the numbers assigned to the recorded works do not appear to match (e.g. No. 3 in C minor on the CPO CD is the first one on the website list, however, the 1910 date matches) - I'm assuming the number assignments are not chronologic relative to the composing dates in the chart?  Dave :)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Mr9svpB/0/27b42754/O/RontgenSymphs.png)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SymphonicAddict on November 05, 2019, 12:51:54 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555055-2.jpg)

A nice addition to what has been recorded from the vast oeuvre of this composer. Once again, Röntgen knows how to write music making it sound fresh and engaging despite being very traditional. The Romanze from the 3rd PC is gorgeous, expressive and tender. The heart of the piece IMO. The 6th PC sounds like a Rhapsody or a Fantasy for piano and orchestra rather than a proper PC. The 7th PC has fine moments, with some apparent Baroque-sounding passages (?). Granted, it's not groundbreaking music, but it is utterly pleasant. It's a lovely disc altogether.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: springrite on November 05, 2019, 05:37:47 PM
I first became curious about Rontgen when I read that, when asked about his favorite living composers, Rontgen was the first composer Brahms mentioned. Of course, with Wagner being so popular and with so many followers, Brahms was surely going to mention composers with relatively conservative idioms.
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: Christo on November 05, 2019, 09:20:46 PM
Just received my copy of this volumnuous & heavy (two kilos) tome today: 600 pages by music historian Jurjen Vis (who's untimely death earlier this year meant a genuine loss for Dutch musical history; Vis wrote a couple of fine monographs, the most impressive I read being the one about the young composer Leo Smit (1900-1943), murdered in Sobibor & leaving almost no archive behind, which meant Vis was forced to reconstruct the few fragments of his life we now know almost from scratch; hence its title 'Silhouettes'.

'Gaudeamus' being BTW the name Röntgen gave to the "Norwegian" villa he had himself built at Bilthoven, a place his close friend Edvard Grieg never saw, since it was buit after (also untimely) Grieg's death (I visited it one month ago and attended a concert there). All of this, of course, for those who manage to read Dutch (but one could choose to learn it for the sake of Röntgen alone  >:D).

(https://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebase3/large/FC/8/5/9/9/1001004004439958.jpg)(https://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebase3/backcover/large/FC/8/5/9/9/1001004004439958.jpg) (https://www.monumenten.nl/files/styles/large/public/externals/3f2c79736fecc095cce58e7beeae0feb.jpg?itok=5CLTstxe)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 04, 2020, 10:29:22 AM
Well, now reviewing and listening to my modest collection of Julius Röntgen's works - last time mentioned (2nd quote at bottom) was nearly 2 years ago in this thread when I had 10 CDs - now I am up to 15 discs (1 MP3) (first quote) - I've been starting w/ mainly the chamber works (7 of the 8 shown below) - attached are numerous reviews of nearly all of these recordings for those interested and just wondering what to purchase first (or stream - many Röntgen albums are available on Spotify).

I'm enjoying all of these performances; the first 2 CDs shown are great 'starters' w/ excellent reviews - love the Lendvai Trio gals but would probably recommended the middle two volumes.  The Storioni Trio is also quite good and there is a 2nd volume.  Julius was a long-lived and prolific composer w/ well over 600 works to his credit - a detailed list can be found HERE (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/work/list-of-compositions/) - will post my remaining recordings in my next entry - not sure that I want to add much more (maybe the 2nd Storioni Trio recording)?  BUT, much is missing, e.g. String Quartets (he wrote about 20 according to the link) and his solo piano works (on Amazon, 4 volumes are listed w/ Mark Anderson).  Dave :)

Quote
Cello Concertos, No. 1-3 - Muruzabai (Et’Cetera)
Chamber Music - Royal Conservatory Canada (RCA)
Piano Concertos, No. 2 & 4 - Porcelijn (CPO)
Piano Trios, No. 6, 9, 10 - Storioni Trio (MP3)
String Trios, No. 1-4 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
String Trios, No. 5-8 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
String Trios, No. 9-12 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
String Trios, No. 13-16 - Lendvai String Trio (Champs Hill)
Symphony  No. 3 + Suite - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony Nos. 6, 5, & 19 - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony Nos. 8 & 15 - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony No. 10 et al - Porcelijn (CPO)
Symphony No. 18 et al - Porcelijn (CPO)
Violin Concertos - Ferschtman/Porcelijn (CPO)
Wind Serenades - Linos Ensemble (CPO)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51153PcFs3L.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71eP4U4mUaL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/617BajLcglL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71cGhER6j5L._SL1000_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9%2Bt-z-NL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pDdgXtOjL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FCuFveIIL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZIpU4x2WL._SS500_.jpg)

BOY!  Julius Röntgen (1855-1932) - looking through this short thread, I have just one post back in 2009 and must have just started to collect his wide variety of recordings - one of my interests, as a retired radiologist, was his relationship to Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen, discoverer of X-rays - indeed they were distant cousins (see first pice below - Source (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/familie/niet-de-beroemde/)) - I now have 10 CDs of this composer (listed in the quote) - one has an interesting cover w/ a chest X-ray.  Now, I've not listened to these in a while but have pulled out the stack and will in the upcoming days.  Thanks for the reminder - Dave :)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-6ZB43CJ/0/20bf0f46/O/Rontgen1.png) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-WLHWGmX/0/54804bae/O/Rontgen2.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: mc ukrneal on May 04, 2020, 10:34:34 AM
Well, now reviewing and listening to my modest collection of Julius Röntgen's works - last time mentioned (2nd quote at bottom) was nearly 2 years ago in this thread when I had 10 CDs - now I am up to 15 discs (1 MP3) (first quote) - I've been starting w/ mainly the chamber works (7 of the 8 shown below) - attached are numerous reviews of nearly all of these recordings for those interested and just wondering what to purchase first (or stream - many Röntgen albums are available on Spotify).

I'm enjoying all of these performances; the first 2 CDs shown are great 'starters' w/ excellent reviews - love the Lendvai Trio gals but would probably recommended the middle two volumes.  The Storioni Trio is also quite good and there is a 2nd volume.  Julius was a long-lived and prolific composer w/ well over 600 works to his credit - a detailed list can be found HERE (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/work/list-of-compositions/) - will post my remaining recordings in my next entry - not sure that I want to add much more (maybe the 2nd Storioni Trio recording)?  BUT, much is missing, e.g. String Quartets (he wrote about 20 according to the link) and his solo piano works (on Amazon, 4 volumes are listed w/ Mark Anderson).  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51153PcFs3L.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71eP4U4mUaL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/617BajLcglL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71cGhER6j5L._SL1000_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51X9%2Bt-z-NL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pDdgXtOjL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FCuFveIIL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZIpU4x2WL._SS500_.jpg)

Great Stuff. I've been interested in those piano volumes. Maybe next time presto has a sale on those downloads, I'll consider it...
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 04, 2020, 11:06:47 AM
Great Stuff. I've been interested in those piano volumes. Maybe next time presto has a sale on those downloads, I'll consider it...

Hi Neal - looking forward to your comments - might put together a Spotify playlist of the solo piano music (all 4 Anderson volumes are available) and possibly one of string quartets just to sample these two genres; but don't feel like adding much more.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 04, 2020, 12:13:47 PM
My Röntgen Collection - Part 2 - shown below are my remaining 7 CDs, mostly Symphonies, plus Violin Concertos & Wind Serenades - the first image shows a list of Julius' symphonic output, 21 works (Source (http://www.juliusrontgen.nl/en/work/list-of-compositions/symphonic-music/)) of which 8 are on the pics shown - mostly excellent reviews in the attachment, except for a couple by Dubins, so I've included several rebuttal comments.  Again not sure that I want to obtain every Rontgen symphony but looking forward to suggestions by others.   Dave :)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-dnxHMTq/0/0eac0edf/O/Rontgen_Symphonies.png)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61ydMY%2BwcYL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91aDUmXxOPL._SL1429_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619jKQUmehL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JvSo%2BEEgL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DuE4Q2pXL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81aaYraN-jL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YiYqzR-cL._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: Christo on August 28, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
Posted here from the Pieces that have blown you away recently-thread:

Julius Röntgen.

I have just discovered this fine composer.  There are not that many entries about him in GMG.


Title: Re: Julius Röntgen
Post by: André on December 19, 2020, 02:03:29 PM

Cross-posted from the WAYL2 thread:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61cLuIs-gYL.jpg)

Disc one: 3 Suites for solo violin.

Donald Tovey, the Scottish composer, pianist, musicologist, editor etc was composer Julius Röntgen’s best friend. It’s on Tovey’s advice that Röntgen embarked on writing solo violin works ‘in the style of Bach’ in the period 1921-1930. Tovey would provide themes and Röntgen wrote preludes, bourrées, sarabandes, fugues, arranging them in suites (3). To complete the corpus he also wrote 3 sonatas, again in the Bach style.

Anyone with a liking for solo violin works will dip into this set as in a candy jar. Röntgen’s suites are more tuneful than comparable works by Reger, while less overtly original and fantastical than Ysaÿes’s contemporaneous works for solo violin. I didn’t know of violinist Oliver Kipp, but on the evidence of his work here he is an excellent technician and a fine musician. He studied under Thomas Brandis (longtime concertmaster of the BP) and currently leads the violin section of the NDR Radiophilharmonie.

Perfectly natural sound, with good presence and hall ambience. Produced in 2015, this extremely fine set is warmly recommended. The other two discs are devoted to solo cello works and duets for violin and cello.