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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 27, 2018, 12:32:30 AM

Title: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 27, 2018, 12:32:30 AM
This is supplemental to the ongoing  "The Greatest Recording Ever Made" thread.
I'm not trying to figure out the greatest Bruckner recording ... I'm just trying to eliminate some of the recordings for the big list from contention.


I was thinking brackets, but that's not really necessary. Many votes go one, few votes don't. This is preliminary.

I took the liberty to add a few performances to the list we already had. But I had to stop myself... because why not include Boulez 8 and Sinopoli 5 and Jochum RCO last concert 5 and whatnot.


EDIT Accidentally hit enter and posted this. Can I change the number of votes people have afterwards? (No, but one can delete the poll and create a new one.)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: mc ukrneal on April 27, 2018, 12:51:59 AM
Well, my favorite recording of all time is the Bruckner 9 Haitink (the second one on Philips - not the one made with the cycle). It is beautifully recorded and performed. After that, the Bruckner 8 Wand BPO would probably be next. Perhaps the Karajan 7.  I have the Haitink 6 on the list, but I think 9 is far better.

I wasn't clear if I should post here or whether you were going to start another thread.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Biffo on April 27, 2018, 01:03:02 AM
Although the list contains some of my favourite Bruckner conductors - Haitink, Giulini, Jochum and Klemperer - none of them were there for my favourite recordings from them. In the end I only voted for Karajan and the Vienna No 7.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 27, 2018, 01:27:11 AM
Well, my favorite recording of all time is the Bruckner 9 Haitink (the second one on Philips - not the one made with the cycle). It is beautifully recorded and performed. After that, the Bruckner 8 Wand BPO would probably be next. Perhaps the Karajan 7.  I have the Haitink 6 on the list, but I think 9 is far better.

I wasn't clear if I should post here or whether you were going to start another thread.

This one?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbyE8uZXcAEUc6w.jpg)

#morninglistening to #Haitink & @RCOamsterdam in #Bruckner on
@DeccaClassics

: http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK

- his 1981 recording of the #9th #Symphony. (http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: mc ukrneal on April 27, 2018, 02:30:04 AM
This one?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbyE8uZXcAEUc6w.jpg)

#morninglistening to #Haitink & @RCOamsterdam in #Bruckner on
@DeccaClassics

: http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK

- his 1981 recording of the #9th #Symphony. (http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK)
I have a different cover, but I think it's the same...
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Draško on April 27, 2018, 03:22:57 AM
From that list Bohm 8th (DG), Keilberth 6th and Haitink Dresden 6th.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2018, 03:46:46 AM
Haitink 9
Jochum 5
Giulini 9
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 27, 2018, 05:03:15 AM
Well, my favorite recording of all time is the Bruckner 9 Haitink (the second one on Philips - not the one made with the cycle). It is beautifully recorded and performed.

Seconded (or thirded), which makes its relative non-availability puzzling. I have it in an LP box with his 8th, also excellent and hard to find.

I think Bruno Walter should be on there - certainly his 9 and possibly his 4 as well. And the Klemperer 6th.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: André on April 27, 2018, 12:40:22 PM
From that list Bohm 8th (DG), Keilberth 6th and Haitink Dresden 6th.

+1 for the first two, Klemperer’s 5th for the last spot  ;)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Daverz on April 27, 2018, 12:47:54 PM
I'd go for Haitink's latest BRSO recording of 6.

So the only one I might agree on is the Haitink 9.

My greatest might be:

4: Klemperer/BRSO
5: Karajan, Kempe (XRCD)
6: Celibidache/EMI, Haitink/BRSO
7: Karajan/EMI, Rosbaud (Zyx transfer)
8: not sure
9: Schuricht

I think the rule for Böhm is that he was better in concert, but I haven't compared the different recordings, at least the ones I can find.

I'd like to get my hands on the Zurich Tonhalle recording on Palexa:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/bruckner-symphonie-no-8-mw0001858004

More on the various Böhm recordings here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29.msg350218.html#msg350218
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Baron Scarpia on April 27, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
I've only heard one of the records listed, and I don't like it.  (Bohm 8th, VPO).

:(
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Cato on April 27, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
How about Jochum for all of them, Wand also for the SixthRattle's   completed Ninth ?

I know: you are trying to whittle them down, and here I go "whittling" them up!  ???
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: betterthanfine on April 27, 2018, 01:41:51 PM
Seconded (or thirded), which makes its relative non-availability puzzling. I have it in an LP box with his 8th, also excellent and hard to find.

If it's the 1981 recording, it's in this boxset:



I'll schedule a listening session for this weekend, since so many of you think highly of it.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 27, 2018, 03:13:10 PM
Interesting. So far, I think, this might have been partly mistaken as a "Greatest Bruckner Recording" poll... when I just wanted to take a few recordings of the "TGREM"(TM) list and narrow it down.

I might change that for the next preliminary poll.

So far, Guilini's Vienna 9th is the front runner. A classic... and overrated, like a classic SHOULD be. But the votes that Karajan got in the "TGREM"(TM) list suddenly aren't there anymore. That's weird.

And no one nominated the Luebeck/Wand recording? Yes, also overrated, but long considered one of those mythical great Bruckner recordings.

Once we have a few more voters, I'll start cutting a few under-performing choices.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on April 27, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Karajan's Bruckner is okay, but I haven't yet seen his recordings regarded as in the same league as Wand or Jochum, who are rightly revered. I do love that beauty and cohesion in the orchestral sound, but this aspect is only one thing that makes Jochum so wonderful to listen to.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Cato on April 27, 2018, 03:50:44 PM
Karajan's Bruckner is okay, but I haven't yet seen his recordings regarded as in the same league as Wand or Jochum, who are rightly revered. I do love that beauty and cohesion in the orchestral sound, but this aspect is only one thing that makes  0:) Jochum  0:) so wonderful to listen to.

Amen, brother, amen! 0:)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Ken B on April 27, 2018, 04:37:20 PM
Well, my favorite recording of all time is the Bruckner 9 Haitink (the second one on Philips - not the one made with the cycle). It is beautifully recorded and performed. After that, the Bruckner 8 Wand BPO would probably be next. Perhaps the Karajan 7.  I have the Haitink 6 on the list, but I think 9 is far better.

I wasn't clear if I should post here or whether you were going to start another thread.

Oddly I have never heard Haitink's 9, so I will seek it out. I have heard little of his cycle.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: André on April 27, 2018, 04:54:56 PM
I'd go for Haitink's latest BRSO recording of 6.

So the only one I might agree on is the Haitink 9.

My greatest might be:

4: Klemperer/BRSO
5: Karajan, Kempe (XRCD)
6: Celibidache/EMI, Haitink/BRSO
7: Karajan/EMI, Rosbaud (Zyx transfer)
8: not sure
9: Schuricht

I think the rule for Böhm is that he was better in concert, but I haven't compared the different recordings, at least the ones I can find.

I'd like to get my hands on the Zurich Tonhalle recording on Palexa:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/bruckner-symphonie-no-8-mw0001858004

More on the various Böhm recordings here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29.msg350218.html#msg350218


Thanks for finding the exact spot, Daverz. I recalled vaguely having written on the subject but didn’t have the patience to look at my old posts  :P.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Ken B on April 27, 2018, 05:04:03 PM
How about Jochum for all of them, Wand also for the SixthRattle's   completed Ninth ?

I know: you are trying to whittle them down, and here I go "whittling" them up!  ???

KISS: Karajan and Jochum twice  :). And Stan Skrow.

Did nobody nominate Skrowaczewski?
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: aukhawk on April 27, 2018, 11:06:16 PM
Karajan's Bruckner is okay, but I haven't yet seen his recordings regarded as in the same league as Wand or Jochum, who are rightly revered. I do love that beauty and cohesion in the orchestral sound, but this aspect is only one thing that makes Jochum so wonderful to listen to.

Conversely, there's a strident edge to the sound of the Wand recordings on RCA that makes them unlistenable, to my ears.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 27, 2018, 11:26:57 PM
Oddly I have never heard Haitink's 9, so I will seek it out. I have heard little of his cycle.

We're not talking about the 9th from his cycle but his second of three (http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK). You can make a nearly complete (3-9) cycle of Haitink's recordings outside the cycle. (See the "Alternative Haitink Cycle" here (https://amzn.to/2KiU4OW)). There's no critical consensus on which alternative 6th one would include; I prefer Dresden others the BRSO version. On the 9th the consensus is clear: RCO over London.

KISS: Karajan and Jochum twice  :). And Stan Skrow.

Did nobody nominate Skrowaczewski?

Love him as a conductor - but he's got no claim to having made "TGREM". Although by now I might just give up the idea that this is not a GRBROAT thread.  :)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Daverz on April 28, 2018, 12:09:44 AM
We're not talking about the 9th from his cycle but his second of three (http://a-fwd.to/8bdu7QK). You can make a nearly complete (3-9) cycle of Haitink's recordings outside the cycle. (See the "Alternative Haitink Cycle" here (https://amzn.to/2KiU4OW)). There's no critical consensus on which alternative 6th one would include; I prefer Dresden others the BRSO version.

I may be mistaken, but I think I've heard (and enjoyed) the Dresden recording.  Both are on Tidal.  I'm not sure I could tell the difference blind.

Haitink Bruckner on Tidal:

Dresden Bruckner 6: https://tidal.com/album/12231612
BRSO Bruckner 6: https://tidal.com/album/80594065
1981 Bruckner 9: https://tidal.com/album/58971999 or https://tidal.com/album/21844236 (The Philips Years)
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Biffo on April 28, 2018, 12:38:29 AM
I am totally confused as to what is going on but never mind.

I always associate Haitink with No 8. I heard him conduct it with the LPO and it is the greatest Bruckner performance I have ever heard, live or recorded. I have a complete Haitink 'cycle'  but it is made up of recordings from Amsterdam and Vienna - the 9th, with the Concertgebouw, dates from 1965 - presumably the later one is better.

No one has mentioned Tintner; he has usually had enthusiastic mentions in other Bruckner discussions. I only have his recording of the 1887 version of No 8; it is excellent but possibly doesn't come into the category of 'greatest ever'.

I have Wand's live Berlin recording of No 8. I made the mistake of reading the booklet notes first and was put off by the sycophantic gush. I am sure it is a fine performance but I haven't returned to it very often. I like his Brahms, symphonies 3 & 4, with No 3 being my favourite version for many years.
Title: Re: The Greatest Recording Ever Made: 1st Poll for Bruckner
Post by: Ken B on April 28, 2018, 06:28:24 PM
Conversely, there's a strident edge to the sound of the Wand recordings on RCA that makes them unlistenable, to my ears.
+1 Worst Bruckner Ever