How would you rate the series? They seem to have much more bass than the other recordings. Sometimes their treble voices can't be clearly heard because their bass instruments are muffling everything. I'm comparing their BWV 1060 and 1062 to that of Hogwood, and they sound very different. Is that just a style or was it poorly recorded? (It doesn't seem to be an issue with some of the albums, but with album 4 and 5 the bass is really really strong)
Quote from: Perpetual on April 28, 2007, 01:17:42 PM
How would you rate the series? They seem to have much more bass than the other recordings. Sometimes their treble voices can't be clearly heard because their bass instruments are muffling everything. I'm comparing their BWV 1060 and 1062 to that of Hogwood, and they sound very different. Is that just a style or was it poorly recorded? (It doesn't seem to be an issue with some of the albums, but with album 4 and 5 the bass is really really strong)
I gather from your post that "Musica Alta Ripa - Solo concertos" refers to recordings of
Bach's concertos! ;D
Maybe a good idea to mention Bach in the thread title?
Anyway those recordings on MDG never made a smashing impression on me too.
Good recordings of Bach's solo concertos (hey, what about that as a title? :)) - especially the harpsichord concertos - are few in numbers.
A series I very much like is on
Alpha (http://www.fugalibera.com/home.php?langue=en) - mixes all kinds of concertos:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4460421.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8584368.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3674125.jpg)
Quote from: Que on April 29, 2007, 11:03:29 PM
I gather from your post that "Musica Alta Ripa - Solo concertos" refers to recordings of Bach's concertos! ;D
Maybe a good idea to mention Bach in the thread title?
Anyway those recordings on MDG never made a smashing impression on me too.
Good recordings of Bach's solo concertos (hey, what about that as a title? :)) - especially the harpsichord concertos - are few in numbers.
Yes, they are the Bach concertos. :)
I have never heard the CDs that you have here. Is Cafe Zimmermann a HIP musician?
I have pinnock's boxset and most of them sound more clear at least than the MDG recordings.
I wonder why there are so many recordings of Bach's concertos and so few good ones. Like the 1043 has been recorded to death and most of them just sound like the musicians are trying to show off to the listeners that they have very nimble fingers and can play very "complicated" pieces. Like those thousands of Baroque concertos written to show off a player's skill.
But one thing that strikes me about this is that the MDG recording of the 1043 is the best one I have ever heard. So that's why I'm thinking with some of the other albums it might be because of the recording engineer instead of the musicians that the bass sounds drowned all the rest of the voices.
Quote from: Perpetual on April 30, 2007, 12:27:17 PM
Yes, they are the Bach concertos. :)
I have never heard the CDs that you have here. Is Cafe Zimmermann a HIP musician?
Yes, Café Zimmermann is a HIP chamber orchestra, they have no conductor just a "Konzertmeister" - which is very HIP too. :)
Q
Quote from: Que on April 30, 2007, 08:34:48 PM
Yes, Café Zimmermann is a HIP chamber orchestra, they have no conductor just a "Konzertmeister" - which is very HIP too. :)
Q
The 3 albums that you listed are far from the complete set of orchestral works by Bach. Are more coming out in the future that will eventually cover all of Bach's orchestral works?
I have played the Bach you mentioned, on MDG, concerning the handling of the bass, my primary system keeps it on the right place, my secondary system has troubles to keep the bass line in check.
The recordings themselves are very good.
Tone controls in neutral, and if possible downscale the bass a little, that helps.
Could you give details of your system my friend?
Quote from: Perpetual on April 30, 2007, 09:10:06 PM
The 3 albums that you listed are far from the complete set of orchestral works by Bach. Are more coming out in the future that will eventually cover all of Bach's orchestral works?
It would seem plausible that other volumes could follow, but I don't know.
I have them in addition to a complete harpsichord concertos set with Leonhardt (Teldec), but that set is really a bit outdated and also out of print (OOP).
I would like to have the complete harpsichord concertos set with Hogwood and harpsichordist Christophe Rousset (Decca), but I missed it somehow and it's now OOP. But Decca is reissuing several items lately, including Rousset, so it could pop up anyday! If it does: strongly recommended.
Q
Quote from: Perpetual on April 28, 2007, 01:17:42 PM
How would you rate the series? They seem to have much more bass than the other recordings. Sometimes their treble voices can't be clearly heard because their bass instruments are muffling everything. I'm comparing their BWV 1060 and 1062 to that of Hogwood, and they sound very different. Is that just a style or was it poorly recorded? (It doesn't seem to be an issue with some of the albums, but with album 4 and 5 the bass is really really strong)
Relistening to Vol.5 today didn´t reveal any of your problems. I find the balance quite natural.
More problematic is the mixed quality of the interpretations, depending on the fact, that a handful of musicians have shared the works between them. Some interpretations are very good, but there is IMO a general lack of artistic direction as compared to the harpsichord concerto interpretations of Pinnock, van Asperen, Schornsheim to name a few.
So can someone recommend a set of HIP orchestral music of Bach? (Excluding the brandenburgs and overtures) Basically everything on that pinnock archiv set or MDG set, all of his "concertos'. As I have mentioned them, I already have the pinnock and MDG sets.
One thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be the "old" HIP performed in the 60s and 70s, that are supposed to be HIP but still have a large proportion of the non HIP elements in them. I would perfer a more "mature HIP" performance that's recorded recently (not from the early days that's half HIP).
Quote from: premont on May 01, 2007, 12:32:05 PM
Relistening to Vol.5 today didn´t reveal any of your problems. I find the balance quite natural.
More problematic is the mixed quality of the interpretations, depending on the fact, that a handful of musicians have shared the works between them. Some interpretations are very good, but there is IMO a general lack of artistic direction as compared to the harpsichord concerto interpretations of Pinnock, van Asperen, Schornsheim to name a few.
What do you mean by "artisitic direction"?
Quote from: Perpetual on May 01, 2007, 07:28:15 PM
What do you mean by "artistic direction"?
I mean, that there is a lack of unity in the interpretations, - it seems as if there is no common leader of the ensemble, and that the style of the different musicans differs a lot. This results in a certain dissimilarity or even casuality of the interpretations. Compare the two different versions of the slow (solistic) movement of the C-major concerto BWV 1061 for two harpsichords, the one version played by two of the harpsichordists, the other version played by the two others. Which one do you prefer, and why?
Quote from: Perpetual on May 01, 2007, 07:27:48 PM
One thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be the "old" HIP performed in the 60s and 70s, that are supposed to be HIP but still have a large proportion of the non HIP elements in them.
Very true. On the other hand there is a growing number of HIP style interpretations played with discretion on modern instruments.
E.g. Kölner Kammerorkester / Müller Bruhl and
Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum, Leipzig / Max Pommer or Burkhardt Glaetzner.
There isn´t but a few comprehensive HIP sets other than the Musica Alta Ripa set and the Pinnock set, which meet your demands.
You may combine the Virgin harpsichord concerto set by
van Asperen with the Virgin concerto set by the
Orchester of the Age of Enlightenment.
The
Rousset / Hogwood recordings for Oiseau Lyre cover the most.
I have got much plesure from both of these two sets, and I find the Hogwood set preferable, but I think the Virgin combination is easier available.
Quote from: premont on May 02, 2007, 07:46:49 AM
I mean, that there is a lack of unity in the interpretations, - it seems as if there is no common leader of the ensemble, and that the style of the different musicans differs a lot. This results in a certain dissimilarity or even casuality of the interpretations. Compare the two different versions of the slow (solistic) movement of the C-major concerto BWV 1061 for two harpsichords, the one version played by two of the harpsichordists, the other version played by the two others. Which one do you prefer, and why?
Do you mean compare the BWV 1061 with 1061a from the same set or with the 1601 from the Pinnock set?
And for the AAM recordings, the used copies of it cost way too much to buy them all. Since I already have two sets of the works I'm going to let it go for now.
I'm now wondering are the Pinnock recordings from the 1970s partially HIP as well? Some of them sound a bit heavy.
You seem to have problems with sound in general my friend, so first check your system.
I listen again to all MDG recordings, and they sound wonderful.
Quote from: Harry on May 03, 2007, 12:32:16 AM
You seem to have problems with sound in general my friend, so first check your system.
I listen again to all MDG recordings, and they sound wonderful.
Do you mean what speakers I use? I use a 2.1 Altec Lansing system, so it shouldn't have a base problem especially considering I turned the bass down to 50%. (It's no Logitech ;D)
Quote from: Perpetual on May 03, 2007, 09:20:12 AM
Do you mean what speakers I use? I use a 2.1 Altec Lansing system, so it shouldn't have a base problem especially considering I turned the bass down to 50%. (It's no Logitech ;D)
If you have to turn the bass 50% down, than you have a problem!
Altec speakers are not renown for their shyness of bass.
I reviewed the Altec series many years ago, and found them to incapable to produce a satisfying result with classical music.
I recording should sound good with all the controls in the middle, if not so, then most of the time your system is to blame.
And in the case of these MDG recordings, I know that I am right.
So what brand of speakers would be good for Classical music? I know that Logitech speakers have a LOT of bass and that's why I didn't get them. Which brand has the least bass?
Quote from: Perpetual on May 03, 2007, 01:17:51 PM
So what brand of speakers would be good for Classical music? I know that Logitech speakers have a LOT of bass and that's why I didn't get them. Which brand has the least bass?
That really depends on what the rest of your gear is, and what you are willing to spend.
It is not a question of which speaker has the least bass, is a question of fitting the right equipment together.
So tell me your amplification, and brand of player, and we will see what sort of speaker would be best.
Quote from: Perpetual on May 03, 2007, 01:17:51 PM
So what brand of speakers would be good for Classical music? I know that Logitech speakers have a LOT of bass and that's why I didn't get them. Which brand has the least bass?
Logitech speakers? You mean Logitech soap boxes? ;D
Bass is a complex thing. Most of the problems are not in the speakers but in room acoustics and speaker placing.
The best result is obtained with flat but slowly decaying bass response (most Finnish loudspeakers are designed using this philosophy) in a room with good acoustics and with good placing (away from hard surfaces).
Boomy bass means often too much higher bass (100-200 Hz) and lack of low (20-50 Hz)/middle bass (50-100 Hz).
Quote from: Perpetual on May 02, 2007, 02:32:59 PM
Do you mean compare the BWV 1061 with 1061a from the same set..
Yes.
Quote
And for the AAM recordings, the used copies of it cost way too much to buy them all. Since I already have two sets of the works I'm going to let it go for now.
A great pity, but I suppose they are bound to become rereleased some day.
Quote
I'm now wondering are the Pinnock recordings from the 1970s partially HIP as well? Some of them sound a bit heavy.
Yes, they are informed performances, but of course the individual personality of the performer is important too (as usual in music-making).
By the way, can you tell me: What became of Tsearcher from the old forum? I just wondered.
Quote from: premont on May 04, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
Yes.
A great pity, but I suppose they are bound to become rereleased some day.
Yes, they are informed performances, but of course the individual personality of the performer is important too (as usual in music-making).
By the way, can you tell me: What became of Tsearcher from the old forum? I just wondered.
I remember that Tsearcher always asked many questions, often the same questions already answered. Does any new name on the board have that M.O.?
Quote from: premont on May 04, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
By the way, can you tell me: What became of Tsearcher from the old forum? I just wondered.
Ahah!
Tsearcher, I forgot all about him... ;D
Well, posts by
Perpetual here, are longer than one sentence.
Which would be a serious improvement in communication skills if they are the same person.... 8)
Q
Quote from: premont on May 04, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
By the way, can you tell me: What became of Tsearcher from the old forum? I just wondered.
I am the same person, just a new name.
QuoteWell, posts by Perpetual here, are longer than one sentence.
Which would be a serious improvement in communication skills if they are the same person....
I certainly hope that you weren't serious about that. I do want a reply from you.
Quote from: premont on May 04, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
QuoteDo you mean compare the BWV 1061 with 1061a from the same set..
Yes.
I prefer the 1061a version on the first album. Although softer sounding, it's more musical and has more emotional depth (IMO).
Quote from: Harry on May 03, 2007, 01:40:26 PM
So tell me your amplification, and brand of player, and we will see what sort of speaker would be best.
I play with my computer with a Soundblaster card. I don't know what an amplifier is.
Quote from: Perpetual on May 04, 2007, 12:11:12 PM
I am the same person, just a new name.
I certainly hope that you weren't serious about that. I do want a reply from you.
Please take it as you like.
Q
Quote from: Que on May 04, 2007, 12:24:08 PM
Please take it as you like.
Q
That's just rude.
Quote from: Perpetual on May 04, 2007, 12:19:53 PM
I play with my computer with a Soundblaster card. I don't know what an amplifier is.
Oke that explains a lot. Your system sucks MDG sounds good, problem solved.
Quote from: Perpetual on May 04, 2007, 12:11:12 PM
I am the same person, just a new name.
I thought it was you. How's it going with Bach?
Quote from: Perpetual on May 04, 2007, 12:11:12 PM
I am the same person, just a new name.
Yes, I was sure of that. Shocking indeed, that we are revealed by every word, we write.
Quote from: Perpetual on May 04, 2007, 12:16:37 PM
I prefer the 1061a version on the first album. Although softer sounding, it's more musical and has more emotional depth (IMO).
I am inclined to agree.
Quote from: Que on May 04, 2007, 09:30:56 AM
Ahah! Tsearcher, I forgot all about him... ;D
I didn´t. And then I got a number of déjà-vue experiences in a row.