I am looking for recommendations for these Bach pieces:
1. the motets
2. a HIP or period set of Brandenburgs, to supplement my old traditional Britten set.
Thanks for all recs in advance 0:)
For the Brandenburgs, check out Goebel on Archiv; also Pinnock on Archiv and Avie (more recent).
Quote from: Spitvalve on October 16, 2008, 11:02:24 AM
I am looking for recommendations for these Bach pieces:
1. the motets
2. a HIP or period set of Brandenburgs, to supplement my old traditional Britten set.
Thanks for all recs in advance 0:)
For the Brandenburgs check this thread:
Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites and concertos) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,981.0.html)
My favourite: Hans-Martin Linde & the Linde Consort (EMI/Virgin)
And for the motets: Herreweghe (HM)
Q
I tend to fall in love with the newest recordings that I acquire. My threshold of boredom must be very shallow, or maybe I was just born fickle. Anyway, my current favorite Brandenburgs are those by Diego Fasolis/I Barocchisti and Rinaldo Alessandrini/Concerto Italiano. I think the ones by I Barocchisti are probably the most alive and fun Brandenburgs I've heard. They have such joy about them without any sacrifice of technique or sound. The Brandenburgs by Concerto Italiano are a tad more serious, but they are so warm and intimate.
I have the Linde Brandenburgs, but unless you get very lucky you aren't likely to find them as they are long out of print. I also find them a bit slow and staid when compared to others. When you do find them, they are usually used, not cheap, and the sound quality is acceptable but nothing spectacular. The Goebel/Musica Antiqua Köln Brandenburgs are considered a landmark set, and are also very fine. They've never gone out of print and you should be able to pick up a set fairly reasonably, including a really nice 8 cd boxed set that includes much of Bach's chamber music. I'm only familiar with the earlier Pinnock with the English Concert, and those are, in a word, precise. I don't find any spontaneity in them nowadays. You won't go wrong with either of those sets, or Jordi Savall's Brandenburgs (also reference quality - but super formal: Brandenburg's for the court of Spain as it were); but none of the others have such an infectious sense of sheer joy in music making that the Fasolis Brandenburgs have in spades.
In fact, if you are coming from the Britten Brandenburgs, then the greatest contrast would be either the I Barrochisti set or the ones by Il Giardino Armonico (the play is not as good as the I Barocchisti set and the sound quality is harsh).
Thanks guys. For the B-burgs, any opinions on:
1. Gustav Leonhardt
2. Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
?
1. the motets / My first choice is Harnoncourt. But there are other good versions (in special Bernius, but his recording doesn't include the BWV 230).
2. a HIP or period set of Brandenburgs, to supplement my old traditional Britten set / Goebel and the Musica Antiqua Köln is very dynamic, full of energy. The version of Leonhardt (RCA) is a good alternative.
For the Brandenburgs, I'll second Bunny's recommendation of Fasolis/I Barocchisti on Arts - simply joyous music-making, at the highest technical level (the natural horn playing in the first concerto is the most accurate I've ever heard).
For the motets, I recommend Jacobs on HM. Elegant performances well-recorded, with the added advantage of having each section within a motet individually tracked.
Happy listening!
Quote from: Spitvalve on October 16, 2008, 10:28:49 PM
Thanks guys. For the B-burgs, any opinions on:
1. Gustav Leonhardt
2. Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
?
Before the I Barocchisti and Concerto Italiano recordings came out, the AAMB recording was probably the one I listened to most. I much preferred it to the Goebel.
Quote from: Spitvalve on October 16, 2008, 11:02:24 AM
I am looking for recommendations for these Bach pieces:
1. the motets
2. a HIP or period set of Brandenburgs, to supplement my old traditional Britten set.
Thanks for all recs in advance 0:)
Not familiar with the motets, only know Harnoncourt's recording.
Brandenburg however, i can strongly recommend the following:
Il Giardino Armonico on Teldec. Creative combinations of basso continuo coupled with extreme expressions makes this set the most innovative among most commercially available recordings.
Freiburg Barockorkest on dvd. Traditional in every sense of the word, beautifully played. Look at the horns and trumpets go! WOW.
Finally.....this: http://www.rozhlas.cz/d-dur/download_eng (http://www.rozhlas.cz/d-dur/download_eng) ;D
Howard
I've been doing a bit of Internet research (reading opinions, hearing clips) and it seems that:
1. Goebel/MAK is considered a landmark, but also very controversial for its jackrabbit tempi. Some can't stand it.
2. Fasolis doesn't appear to be that well known, but gets very good reviews from those who know it (the clips I heard were very invigorating).
3. AAMB gets good reviews, and the clips, while not quite as lively as Fasolis, sounded very nice.
4. Pinnock also divides people, though not as strongly as Goebel - detractors find him bland.
5. Savall is as someone described above, rather formal and stately - a defensible approach, though not really what I'm looking for.
6. Alessandrini gets superb reviews, but apparently it's 1-to-a-part? Not what I'm looking for.
So on the basis of the above, I think Fasolis and AAMB are my front-runners.
Quote from: Spitvalve on October 17, 2008, 10:21:00 AM
I've been doing a bit of Internet research (reading opinions, hearing clips) and it seems that:
1. Goebel/MAK is considered a landmark, but also very controversial for its jackrabbit tempi. Some can't stand it.
2. Fasolis doesn't appear to be that well known, but gets very good reviews from those who know it (the clips I heard were very invigorating).
3. AAMB gets good reviews, and the clips, while not quite as lively as Fasolis, sounded very nice.
4. Pinnock also divides people, though not as strongly as Goebel - detractors find him bland.
5. Savall is as someone described above, rather formal and stately - a defensible approach, though not really what I'm looking for.
6. Alessandrini gets superb reviews, but apparently it's 1-to-a-part? Not what I'm looking for.
So on the basis of the above, I think Fasolis and AAMB are my front-runners.
Don't dismiss it on that basis alone. Most of the HIP recordings are 1/part. The Alessandrini Brandenburgs pack plenty of punch. The Savall Brandenburgs also feature Pierre Hantaï on harpsichord for the 5th concerto in a really impressive virtuoso turn. The ensemble Savall assembled for the Brandenburgs is unsurpassed for virtuoso performers. Don't let the formality put you off them. The MAK Brandenburgs only seemed fast to the critics and listeners when they were first released. Nowadays, their tempi fall right into place with the later HIP releases of the concerti.
I suppose by now you may have realized that I believe that no collection is complete with only one or two recordings of the Brandenburgs. >:D
Quote from: Pére Malfait on October 17, 2008, 04:56:40 AM
For the Brandenburgs, I'll second Bunny's recommendation of Fasolis/I Barocchisti on Arts - simply joyous music-making, at the highest technical level (the natural horn playing in the first concerto is the most accurate I've ever heard).
That makes me curious.
Quote from: Bunny on October 21, 2008, 06:06:17 AM
I suppose by now you may have realized that I believe that no collection is complete with only one or two recordings of the Brandenburgs.
:)
Quote from: M forever on October 21, 2008, 03:03:56 PM
That makes me curious.
Good! ;D
Check out the recording - you'll hear what I mean, especially if you follow along with the score.
E.g. The horns actually play all of the 3-against-2 figurations in the first movement *as written* and manage to produce round, full, *in-tune* tone, even at the extremes of the tessitura, throughout. Very impressive.
The natural trumpet playing in Brandenburg III is superb, as well.
Quote from: Pére Malfait on October 22, 2008, 05:22:55 AM
Good! ;D
Check out the recording - you'll hear what I mean, especially if you follow along with the score.
E.g. The horns actually play all of the 3-against-2 figurations in the first movement *as written* and manage to produce round, full, *in-tune* tone, even at the extremes of the tessitura, throughout. Very impressive.
The natural trumpet playing in Brandenburg III is superb, as well.
All I know is that it
sounds as good or better than most of my recordings and it's a joy to listen to. After listening to the concertos as much as I have, you get a good feel for quality. 0:)
Quote from: Spitvalve on October 16, 2008, 11:02:24 AM
I am looking for recommendations for these Bach pieces:
1. the motets
2. a HIP or period set of Brandenburgs, to supplement my old traditional Britten set.
Thanks for all recs in advance 0:)
I have a couple of recordings of Bach Motets on LP but neither is complete, and while they are fairly good, I am sure there are better ones. I shall look carefully at the recommendations in this thread.
For the Brandenburg's, a very special one is the old Nonesuch recording with Karl Ristenpart and the Chamber Orchestra of the Saar on Nonesuch HB-73006. There has been a CD reincarnation but I am not sure it's still available. Beg, borrow, or steal . . .
Someone mentioned the older Pinnock recording (1982). This is superb and has attained something of a classic status. I understand he has a recent recording but I haven't heard it.
For the HIP brandenburgs:
I love the old Pinnock. The new Pinnock is same in the overall conception (perhaps identical), but somehow with 'smoother' contours and more distant sound. Both are great versions.
Savall and Fasolis are also very good versions.
Quote from: Pére Malfait on October 22, 2008, 05:22:55 AM
Good! ;D
Check out the recording - you'll hear what I mean, especially if you follow along with the score.
E.g. The horns actually play all of the 3-against-2 figurations in the first movement *as written* and manage to produce round, full, *in-tune* tone, even at the extremes of the tessitura, throughout. Very impressive.
The natural trumpet playing in Brandenburg III is superb, as well.
Does it say in the booklet exactly what kind of instruments they use (I mean specifically the horn and trumpet)?
For the Brandenburgs I have the Jordi Savall set and I love it!! Much better than anything else I have heard. The 5th concerto, 1st mvmt is outstanding, with a thrilling cadenza on the harpsichord from Pierre Hantai.
I heard some of the Goebel concerti on the radio ..... they sound quite extraordinary at first hearing, but I don't think that I could live with them through repeated hearings.
Incidentally, my other Savall recording is also quite magnificant..... the Handel Fireworks music .... I have never heard such a thrilling sound from the brass and drums.
Quote from: alkan on October 27, 2008, 02:25:14 AM
The 5th concerto, 1st mvmt is outstanding, with a thrilling cadenza on the harpsichord from Pierre Hantai.
Ditto on the 1st movement of the 5th of Savall. This is what I can remember although I heard it a long time ago.
Interesting reading through this.
The main recommendations for Motets seems to be Gardiner or Jacobs.
I know the 2 CD Gardiner set and I find it disappointing -- not sharp and lively enough. I saw him perform a motet last Christmas and it was so good that I ordered the CDs when I got home. But my feeling is that he's much better with this music now than when he made the record.
What do people think -- is Jacobs the best alternative for the Motets?
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2009, 10:54:24 PM
I know the 2 CD Gardiner set and I find it disappointing -- not sharp and lively enough. I saw him perform a motet last Christmas and it was so good that I ordered the CDs when I got home. But my feeling is that he's much better with this music now than when he made the record.
Gardiner is simply inept at phrasing, it's not really his decidedly non-HIP legato phrasing, it's just how lost he altogether is in that department, traditional and HIPs alike run circles around him in that area. And if you can't get that part right, the music will sound limp without tension which is what happens in many of Gardiner's efforts.
I haven't heard Gardiner in the motets, but I haven't heard him handle phrasing well anywhere. There have simply been recordings where he shines just due to mastering the other elements of conducting.
Quote from: Mandryka on September 03, 2009, 10:54:24 PM
Interesting reading through this.
The main recommendations for Motets seems to be Gardiner or Jacobs.
I know the 2 CD Gardiner set and I find it disappointing -- not sharp and lively enough. I saw him perform a motet last Christmas and it was so good that I ordered the CDs when I got home. But my feeling is that he's much better with this music now than when he made the record.
What do people think -- is Jacobs the best alternative for the Motets?
No, although he's good. I don't agree with DavidW's harsh assessment of Gardiner, but his motets aren't my cup of tea.
My far-and-away-favorite over-all is Kuijken. My No.1 re-issue in 2008:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=451 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=451)
My favorite version just for the performance of the voices is the Netherlands Bach Choir under Dijkstra (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001355OV6?ie=UTF8&tag=nectarandambr-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001355OV6). Perfection, indeed. Makes Erik Erickson look like a bloody amateur.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zplILvW9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001355OV6?ie=UTF8&tag=nectarandambr-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001355OV6)
Just found this among my CDs which I don't remember buying.
Bach - The Complete Brandenburg Concertos / Pearlman, Boston Baroque
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414PRHWW9NL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I like it.
For the Brandenburgs (or the other concerti, might I add) go for Cafe Zimmermann on the Alpha label - they really set themselves above the crowd. I only wish they'd hurry up and record No.'s 1 & 6! :-\
Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 05, 2009, 10:03:40 AM
For the Brandenburgs (or the other concerti, might I add) go for Cafe Zimmermann on the Alpha label - they really set themselves above the crowd. I only wish they'd hurry up and record No.'s 1 & 6! :-\
It's funny how the tastes differ between each individual person: I really dislike those hasty performances by the Cafe Zimmermann. I only have enjoyed that group one time, when they recorded two Bach's secular cantatas with Leonhardt. But certainly it's just my opinion.
Speaking of Brandenburgs: Here's a review of the Egarr compared directly to Alessandrini and Pinnock II.
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=465 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=465)
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dsc02153.jpg) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/60/605243.jpg) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/101/1013029.jpg)
As the thread starter, I can report that I wound up getting:
for the B-burgs - Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin; for the motets - Herreweghe
And am very happy with them 0:) (both on Harmonia Mundi, a label that has never let me down)
Quote from: jlaurson on September 05, 2009, 11:04:11 PM
Speaking of Brandenburgs: Here's a review of the Egarr compared directly to Alessandrini and Pinnock II.
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dsc02153.jpg)
And speaking of Egarr's Brandenburg, what's the significance of 464? ???
Quote from: Richard EgarrIf this set of 'Brandenburgs' becomes the 464th 'hit' on the search engine, it might illicit a slight numerological smile from Bach in e-heaven."
[Link (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/80460/2)]
Quote from: jlaurson on September 04, 2009, 11:07:39 AM
No, although he's good. I don't agree with DavidW's harsh assessment of Gardiner, but his motets aren't my cup of tea.
My far-and-away-favorite over-all is Kuijken. My No.1 re-issue in 2008:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=451 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=451)
My favorite version just for the performance of the voices is the Netherlands Bach Choir under Dijkstra (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001355OV6?ie=UTF8&tag=nectarandambr-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001355OV6). Perfection, indeed. Makes Erik Erickson look like a bloody amateur.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31zplILvW9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001355OV6?ie=UTF8&tag=nectarandambr-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001355OV6)
Have you had a chance to hear Kuijken's second recording on Challenge Classics yet? I find myself really enjoying it, the 225 for example is fabulous.
Since Mandryka brought up this thread, I've been wanting to ask if anyone has heard this one, since the elusive 'Antoine Marchand' mentioned it ~16 months ago.
My points of reference are Herrweghe/Gent [not the 2011, the somewhat older one]; Kuijken's first [?] on Accent; Hilliard (ECM); Corboz/Lausanne. I am certain I prefer the Kuijken, overall for the moment.
[very lightly edited]
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 26, 2011, 02:44:06 PM
Currently of my favorite versions of the motets:
(http://www.ramee.org/images/cdbachmotets.jpg)
J.S. Bach: JESU, MEINE FREUDE - MOTETS [Sette Voci, dir. Peter Kooij - released by Ramee
http://www.ramee.org/0906gb.html
Clarity and transparency are the key words.
:)
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 27, 2011, 01:53:01 AM
Just organ and violone as continuo, Navneeth. Although the ensemble is named Sette Voci (Seven Voices), the singers are actually eight: two sopranos, two male altos, two tenors and two basses. I wonder if the name "Sette Voci" is a sort of pun for the Italian expression "sotto voce".
Peter Kooij, direction
Hana Blažíková, Zsuzsi Tóth, sopranos
Damien Guillon, Robin Blaze, altos
Satoshi Misukoshi, Chris Watson, tenors
Dominik Wörner, Jelle Draijer, basses
Jan Jansen, Masato Suzuki, organ
Armin Bereuter, violone
Apparently Masato Suzuki is son of Masaaki.
JS Bach: Motets [Herreweghe]
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/610XU3Dwm3L._SS500_.jpg)
Refinement and sensitivity to the music has always been a hallmark of Herreweghe and his troupe in the presentation of Bach's sacred music. They have been consistently excellent in the delivery of this music and so it is with the Motets here. The oftentimes ethereal singing is never less than a very pleasurable aural experience. The proportions of the choir consistently sound perfect in terms of balance in the delivery of the music and the tone is also always very appropriate; hovering between reverential and joyful. This album is an aural delight throughout.
For the Brandenburgs, I have Hogwood/AAM/L'Oiseau Lyre and Pinnock/English Concert/Archiv. Would love to hear more HIP recordings.
For the Motets, I like the Hilliard/ECM. Herreweghe looks interesting.
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 29, 2021, 09:36:02 AM
For the Brandenburgs, I have Hogwood/AAM/L'Oiseau Lyre and Pinnock/English Concert/Archiv. Would love to hear more HIP recordings.
For the Motets, I like the Hilliard/ECM. Herreweghe looks interesting.
A particular favourite of mine in the Brandenburgs is Linde and yes, Herreweghe is wonderful in the motets :)