German Baroque Music

[petrarch]

I've had my eyes on this one since it was released:



https://outhere-music.com/store-RIC_323/Georg_Böhm_-_Johann_Sebastian_Bach_-_Johann_Christoph_Bach-Music_for_Weddings_and_other_Festivities-Clematis_-_Leonardo_Garcia_Alarcon.html

And I just found an excerpt on youtube, a perfect example of excellent vibrato-less singing. Divine.

https://www.youtube.com/v/S6ONV33Ifzs

[StLukesguildOhio]

For whatever reason... perhaps its because they were too obvious... I avoided the Italians when I first began to dig deep into the Baroque. The French and the Germans became my initial focus... and vocal music first and foremost... although that has changed with time. I see others have mentioned Westhoff:



and Walther:



as great examples of predecessors to J.S. Bach. Beyond the obvious (Biber, Schutz, Buxtehude, etc...) I would also suggest Johann Joseph Fux:



and Thomas Baltzar:



Baltzar is especially interesting for his compositions for unaccompanied violin.

Sylvius Weiss' works for lute are also a "must have" for the Baroque aficionado:

[petrarch]

Was listening to the previously mentioned Westhoff:

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and noticed how the playing and sound was quite organic. That made me revisit Hélène Schmitt's rendition of Schmelzer's sonatas, which has a much smoother, precise playing and sound overall:

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It certainly is one of my favorite CDs of music from this period. While I was on my Alpha shelf, I also grabbed this:

[asin]B000088SU8[/asin]

This is proving to be a very satisfying Saturday morning .

[Que]

For whatever reason... perhaps its because they were too obvious... I avoided the Italians when I first began to dig deep into the Baroque. The French and the Germans became my initial focus... and vocal music first and foremost... although that has changed with time. I see others have mentioned Westhoff:

[...]

and Thomas Baltzar:



Baltzar is especially interesting for his compositions for unaccompanied violin.

First of all a belated welcome to the forum, and thank you so much for the Baltzar recommendation! After sampling online, I think it is definitely a recording I want to get.

On the topic of pre-Bach violin music, I'd like to point out a recording of very worth-while music by a student of Biber:



Q

[PaulSC]

Baltzar and Vilsmayr are both new to me - thanks for bringing them up!

[SonicMan46]

Yesterday, I left the post quoted below in the 'listening thread', soon to disappear;  both of these are excellent Graupner recordings but the use of the chalumeaux on the one disc stimulated my interest.

The Baroque chalumeau (pic below of a 'family' of these instruments) as quoted in part in a Wiki article: "In the late seventeenth century an improved form of the chalumeau was developed. This baroque chalumeau represents the link between the recorder and the clarinet, and is essentially a cylindrical bore recorder with a mouthpiece like that of a clarinet and two additional "throat" keys controlling notes at the top of the fundamental register. The chalumeau continued to develop for several decades alongside the clarinet, and it has a large repertoire in 18th century orchestral and chamber music."

Jean-Claude Veilhan, one of three performers on these instruments in this recording, has a full page description of the history of the chalumeau, the key differences, and replacement of the single-reed version by the clarinet; he uses a soprano, alto, & tenor instrument in these performances which are copies after Denner ca. 1700 made by Andreas Schöni. 

Graupner, Christoph (1683-1760) - new arrivals:

Overtures for Chalumeaux & Orchestra w/ Mensa Sonora & Maillet; Veilhan, Testu, & Jacquemart on the chalumeaux!

Orchestral Works, Vol.3 w/ Rampe & Nova Stravaganza - period instrument performances; own all three volumes now - excellent -

 

[Que]

Yesterday, I left the post quoted below in the 'listening thread', soon to disappear;  both of these are excellent Graupner recordings but the use of the chalumeaux on the one disc stimulated my interest.

The Baroque chalumeau (pic below of a 'family' of these instruments) as quoted in part in a Wiki article: "In the late seventeenth century an improved form of the chalumeau was developed. This baroque chalumeau represents the link between the recorder and the clarinet, and is essentially a cylindrical bore recorder with a mouthpiece like that of a clarinet and two additional "throat" keys controlling notes at the top of the fundamental register. The chalumeau continued to develop for several decades alongside the clarinet, and it has a large repertoire in 18th century orchestral and chamber music."

Jean-Claude Veilhan, one of three performers on these instruments in this recording, has a full page description of the history of the chalumeau, the key differences, and replacement of the single-reed version by the clarinet; he uses a soprano, alto, & tenor instrument in these performances which are copies after Denner ca. 1700 made by Andreas Schöni. 

I absolutely adore the instrument and I have this disc - also by Jean-Claude Veilhan, who I regard as one of the best baroque clarinetist of today.
Another favourite is Eric Hoeprich. Both of them play another related instrument as well: the basset horn.



Q

[Mandryka]

Listening to Hantai's  second record of the Goldbergs today prompted me to go searching for similarly stern performances from him. I came up with nothing, but I did find this youtube of him playing Froberger -- the only time I've heard him playing Froberger in fact:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Gzl4oGzBo10

There's no Froberger from Skip Sempe neither (just imagine what that could sound like!)

[Octave]

From the "What Are You Listening To" thread, Jeffrey responding to Harry:

[re: Brilliant Schutz Edition: Capella Augustana/M. Messori, dir.]
I agree.  Now listening to the final two CDs (18-19: Giestliche Chor-Music, Op. 11) before I go off to work.

There is some undeserved carping in the Amazon US reviews of this set.  I find it very satisfying on all accounts except one: not all of Schutz's work is included here; most important omissions being Psalmen Davids and Symphoniae Sacrae III.

Most of what I know of Schütz is limited to that Augustana/Brilliant box, the PSALMEN DAVIDS by Cantus Colln and the Prince-Valiant-bowlcut-sporting Junghänel, and Bernius' CHRISTMAS/EASTER HISTORIAS.  Since SYMPHONIAE SACRAE III isn't a piece I know at all, I'd like to know if there are some essential recordings of it.  Since I'm asking, any other Schütz recommendations would be much appreciated.  I'm going to read through this German Baroque thread tonight, but for the moment I haven't found much in way of SS3 recommendations, in my searches.  One friend who is not deeply inclined toward HIP recordings has said that Bernius is his favorite Schütz interpreter, but this seems like an opinion that is not universal.  I'm not even sure I'm going to get that ~5cd Schütz/Bernius box (Sony/Vivarte); I just don't know the field well enough.

[Que]

From the "What Are You Listening To" thread, Jeffrey responding to Harry:
Most of what I know of Schütz is limited to that Augustana/Brilliant box, the PSALMEN DAVIDS by Cantus Colln and the Prince-Valiant-bowlcut-sporting Junghänel, and Bernius' CHRISTMAS/EASTER HISTORIAS.  Since SYMPHONIAE SACRAE III isn't a piece I know at all, I'd like to know if there are some essential recordings of it.  Since I'm asking, any other Schütz recommendations would be much appreciated.  I'm going to read through this German Baroque thread tonight, but for the moment I haven't found much in way of SS3 recommendations, in my searches.  One friend who is not deeply inclined toward HIP recordings has said that Bernius is his favorite Schütz interpreter, but this seems like an opinion that is not universal.  I'm not even sure I'm going to get that ~5cd Schütz/Bernius box (Sony/Vivarte); I just don't know the field well enough.

Let me say upfront that I do not have a comprehensive overview of all the Schütz recordings out there. But let me share my own experiences.

I did consider the Brilliant box set by Messori, but after extensive sampling it failed to convince me enough to give it a try. Actually, Johan van Veen's review HERE pretty much sums up my own impressions:

Let me sum up. The initiative to record a major part of Schütz's oeuvre for a budget label is admirable. The liner-notes show that Messori has invested much time and energy in this project. The performances are sympathetic but unfortunately mostly not of a standard that brings them up to the competition. The overall quality of the singers is just not good enough, and the many changes in the line-up - sometimes for the better - lead to problems with ensemble. You can't just put together a number of singers and change them at will from one piece to the next. The best performances come from ensembles whose members have worked together on a regular basis for a long time. Moreover, in Schütz's music the text always lies at the heart and that makes unacceptable performances by those who have problems with the pronunciation of German. The earliest recordings of pieces in German are pretty painful. The generally slow tempi, the lack of dynamic accenting and the underexposure of the rhythmic pulse further undermine these performances.

Through a wonderful disc with masses by Zelenka and Heinichen, I then bumped into Hans-Christoph Rademann's brand new ongoing Schütz series on Carus. And for me that was bull's eye experience: authentic approach with limited forces, astute and idiomatic renderings, not deliberate or stodgy but still sober and intensely focused on the message of the music. And all that in state of the art recordings. I started with the Geistliche Chor-music 1648 and then went back the his earlier recording (2001) of Schwanengesang on Raumklang - fantastic performances IMO. Also got the Italian Madrigales. Notably the 1st two are strongly recommended - the Schwanengesang is probably hard to find but will probably be reissued (or re-recorded).
The series has by now progressed to 6 volumes in total - see HERE.

 

Some online reviews of the Rademann/Schütz series:
http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Carus_83.232.html
http://www.allmusic.com/album/heinrich-schütz-italienische-madrigale-mw0002131504
http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Carus_83.237.html
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/June12/Schutz_Exequien_83238.htm
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=709101#review

As you can tell Johan van Veen wasn't too pleased with the use of a choir in the Madrigals issue...

I also got the Symphoniae Sacrae III by Bernius/ Musica Fiata...and frankly like your friend I found it disappointing...
Underpowered, blurry singing, uninspired. No, maybe that was how a Schütz performance used to sound, but not any more.

Q

[Octave]

Thanks a lot for that information, Que.

At the bottom of the extensive Van Veen review of the Brilliant box (cf. Que's link above), I notice that he too offers some suggestions for alternatives:

Kleine Geistliche Konzerte and Cantiones Sacrae: Weser-Renaissance/Manfred Cordes (CPO)
Symphoniae Sacrae I: Concerto Palatino (Accent); La Capella Ducale and Musica Fiata/Roland Wilson (deutsche harmonia mundi)
Symphoniae Sacrae II: La Capella Ducale and Musica Fiata/Roland Wilson (Sony); the Purcell Quartet (Chandos)
Weihnachtshistorie: Gabrieli Consort & Players/McCreesh (Archiv; especially recommendable because of the liturgical context); La Petite Bande/Sigiswald Kuijken (deutsche harmonia mundi). I also would like to mention the recording of the Weihnachtshistorie and the Auferstehungshistorie on one disc with the Kammerchor Stuttgart under Frieder Bernius (Sony). The latter work is also available with Concerto Vocale (René Jacobs; Harmonia mundi) and Weser-Renaissance (CPO).
Geistliche Chormusik: Knabenchor Hannover/Heinz Hennig (deutsche harmonia mundi); Dresdner Kammerchor/Hans-Christoph Rademann (Carus); Weser-Renaissance (CPO).
Musicalische Exequien: Vox Luminis (Ricercar); Collegium vocale Gent/Philippe Herreweghe (Harmonia mundi)
Il primo libro de madrigali: Cantus Cölln (Harmonia mundi)

[Wakefield]

Let me say upfront that I do not have a comprehensive overview of all the Schütz recordings out there. But let me share my own experiences.

I did consider the Brilliant box set by Messori, but after extensive sampling it failed to convince me enough to give it a try. Actually, Johan van Veen's review HERE pretty much sums up my own impressions:

I usually agree with Johan van Veen, but not this time. I think Messori did a wonderful job, the voices of his ensemble are perfectly suitable to this work and his tempi (as deeply enjoying the words) are totally to my taste. I think van Veen disagree with the general philosophy of Messori, who doesn't see this music like a great and brilliant vocal spectacle, but more as an austere exercise of withdrawal in front of the Creator. Not very usual when you talk about an Italian conductor, indeed.

[kishnevi]

I have SSIII as performed by Cantus  Colln, and frankly it underwhelmed me.  One Schutz CD I would recommend is on Naxos, with the Oxford Camerata,  under the title Psalmen Davids--a selection from the full work, together with two very late works,  including the German Magnficat.  The Vox Luminis recording of the Musicalishe Exequien is good, but nothing more.

[Octave]

Late thanks for the feedback on Schutz, Gordon Shumway and Jeffrey.  I'd still like recommendations for the Symphoniae Sacrae III, especially in light of Jeffrey's disappointment with the Cantus Colln recording (and also that recording's more or less OOP status...it's often quite expensive), if anyone has heard a great recording.  The Carus label might have one forthcoming that will do the job. 

I'm also interested in this disc of Italian Madrigals by Cantus Colln with Junghanel:



Though I see there is a volume of these from Carus, pictured in Que's post above; that one might be preferable?

[Que]

I'm also interesting in this disc of Italian Madrigals by Cantus Colln with Junghanel:



Though I see there is a volume of these from Carus, pictured in Que's post above; that one might be preferable?

I have my slight doubts about Rademann....but I have no comparison. Though I found it very enjoyable, it was not on the same wow-level as the other issues so far.

Johan van Veen was not quite happy with it either, because of the decison to use a choir instead of one voice per part: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Carus_83.237.html

So I was looking into other options myself - Van Veen 1st rec. is Concerto Vocale under Jacobs (HM), but I'll definitely check out Junghänel as well.

Q

[Octave]

Thanks, Que; I need to read Van Veen's site more often!  I routinely miss reviews of things I become interested in.

[Que]

I have my slight doubts about Rademann....but I have no comparison. Though I found it very enjoyable, it was not on the same wow-level as the other issues so far.

Johan van Veen was not quite happy with it either, because of the decison to use a choir instead of one voice per part: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Carus_83.237.html

So I was looking into other options myself - Van Veen 1st rec. is Concerto Vocale under Jacobs (HM), but I'll definitely check out Junghänel as well.

Q

Of the three options Van Veen mentions, I actually seem to like this one best: (I definitely did not like the Jacobs btw)



http://www.allmusic.com/album/heinrich-schütz-opus-1-in-venice-il-primo-libro-de-madrigali-mw0001370810

Comment of Giordano Bruno (in a review of their Lasso madrigals rec)

If you have any taste for madrigals and/or the music of Orlande de Lassus, get your ears on this recording any way you can. And while you're at it, get their recording of Heinrich Schütz's Opus 1 Venetian madrigals also, before Thorofon becomes Thoroughly unavailable.[...]

The Orlando di Lasso Ensemble sings these madrigals one on a part, with women's voices carrying the soprano lines. The voices are extraordinarily well matched in timbre and well balanced, so that no "Wallace Line" of discontinuity between the genders can be heard. Their tuning is flawless. Their phrasing is marvelously independent, and yet their cadences are as precise as an Italian chef's recipe for ragú. This gang belongs in the same exalted rank as La Venexiana, Concerto Italiano, and Il Seminario Musicale.

So now I have a new Lassus lead as well...

Q

[Bogey]

On sale for $50.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=733487

[Octave]

Another Schütz question.  Four years ago Que asked about Ehmann's Schütz recordings on the Cantate label.  I don't think there was much response to that, or I missed it.  Does anyone know these recordings?  How do they compare to all other Schütz we have?

[Bogey]

Considering:



Comments?