GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: relm1 on August 10, 2018, 03:47:47 PM

Title: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 10, 2018, 03:47:47 PM
This is a very hypothetical topic but if by some miracle you had the power to somehow rewrite history and allow five composers to have lived an additional five years who would you choose?  Perhaps they were on the verge of something magical had they only lived a little longer, we would comprehend their artistry in a very different way.

My five:
1. Mahler: how would he have finished No. 10 and what would he do next?  An opera perhaps?  No. 11? 
2. Shostakovich: Though he had a great and very satisfying ending with No. 15, there were reports that he was working on a No. 16 when he died.  What that might have been?
3. Prokofiev: he left quite a few unfinished works and I had wished for completion of his opera, Distant Seas, and perhaps his unrealized revision of Symphony No. 2 (all of his revisions of his symphonies are excellent and wholly individual works), and perhaps a Symphony No. 8.
4. Scriabin: Just died too soon and I love all he did.  It's great that we have a performance version of Mysterium's prelude but it leaves me wanting more and to know where he would have taken his artistry.
5. Sibelius: This is a controversial choice and I am torn with adding it to my list because he had 32 years to finish No. 8.  I suppose I just wish we had an opportunity to hear the work in its final form that he considered the culmination of his artistry but frankly, not sure if five more years would have mattered. 

Sadly this is a futile thread since we'll never know but it is fun to conjecture. 
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Cato on August 10, 2018, 04:34:50 PM
This is a very hypothetical topic but if by some miracle you had the power to somehow rewrite history and allow five composers to have lived an additional five years who would you choose?  Perhaps they were on the verge of something magical had they only lived a little longer, we would comprehend their artistry in a very different way.

My five:
1. Mahler: how would he have finished No. 10 and what would he do next?  An opera perhaps?  No. 11? 
2. Shostakovich: Though he had a great and very satisfying ending with No. 15, there were reports that he was working on a No. 16 when he died.  What that might have been?
3. Prokofiev: he left quite a few unfinished works and I had wished for completion of his opera, Distant Seas, and perhaps his unrealized revision of Symphony No. 2 (all of his revisions of his symphonies are excellent and wholly individual works), and perhaps a Symphony No. 8.
4. Scriabin: Just died too soon and I love all he did.  It's great that we have a performance version of Mysterium's prelude but it leaves me wanting more and to know where he would have taken his artistry.
5. Sibelius: This is a controversial choice and I am torn with adding it to my list because he had 32 years to finish No. 8.  I suppose I just wish we had an opportunity to hear the work in its final form that he considered the culmination of his artistry but frankly, not sure if five more years would have mattered. 

Sadly this is a futile thread since we'll never know but it is fun to conjecture.

A good list!  I would add - or replace  someone - with Bruckner.

Other nominees:

Ernst Chausson

Wolfgang Mozart

Julius Reubke

Hans Rott

Franz Schubert



We might not think of Mozart or Schubert in such a context, because they created so much in such a short time.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 10, 2018, 04:52:36 PM
Ooh. Interesting question.

1. Chopin: I think there's a new kind of depth in his late works that could have developed even further.

2. Bridge: He didn't die that young, but his style underwent a major change and the late phase is where things really get interesting. His reputation might be different if the balance of his output was shifted further towards that style.

3. Schubert: For me there is a pretty direct correlation between time of composition and degree of enjoyment. It seems inevitable that I'd like another 5 years added at the end of that progression.

4. Debussy: Definitely would have done interesting things, and for starters his planned series of six sonatas could have been finished.

5. maybe Mendelssohn. To be honest I don't know his work that well yet, but one thing that has struck me when looking at lists of his works is how many there were that he hadn't got around to publishing from the last couple of years of his life, and it just seems like he was someone who had plenty more to offer.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: San Antone on August 10, 2018, 05:58:46 PM
Gershwin
Webern
Schubert
Mozart
Hendrix
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Brian on August 10, 2018, 06:44:00 PM
Schubert, easily, and no one else comes close. His evolution in his final few years was so dramatic, and his last 10-12 major compositions were masterpieces every single one, and I must imagine that five more years of Schubert would have changed the world of music forever.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Ken B on August 10, 2018, 06:46:28 PM
Schubert, easily, and no one else comes close. His evolution in his final few years was so dramatic, and his last 10-12 major compositions were masterpieces every single one, and I must imagine that five more years of Schubert would have changed the world of music forever.
Schubert 3 times  and Mozart twice.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 10, 2018, 06:52:46 PM
Schubert, easily, and no one else comes close. His evolution in his final few years was so dramatic, and his last 10-12 major compositions were masterpieces every single one, and I must imagine that five more years of Schubert would have changed the world of music forever.

This is an understandable view. But now I'm curious to see what your list of late masterpieces consists of. Mostly because I'm wondering if I've missed any of them.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Daverz on August 10, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
Vorisek
Arriaga
Kalinnikov
Schulhoff
Ullman

Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: amw on August 10, 2018, 07:46:51 PM
I would give Schubert 20 years, with the remaining five to be inserted into Mozart's life between 1787 and 1788.

Debussy also would be a solid choice but probably not deliver as much in terms of quantity.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 10, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
Vorisek
Arriaga
Kalinnikov
Schulhoff
Ullman

Arriaga had crossed my mind.

Kalinnikov hadn't but I admire that choice.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: amw on August 10, 2018, 09:56:42 PM
This is an understandable view. But now I'm curious to see what your list of late masterpieces consists of. Mostly because I'm wondering if I've missed any of them.
The generally accepted list would be something like

1827:
- Piano Trio D898
- Impromptus D899
- Winterreise D911
- Piano Trio D929
- Fantasy for violin and piano D934
- Impromptus D935

1828:
- Fantasy for piano four hands D940
- Three Piano Pieces D946
- Allegro for piano four hands D947
- Mass D950
- String Quintet D956
- Schwanengesang D957
- Piano Sonata D958
- Piano Sonata D959
- Piano Sonata D960
- Der Hirt auf dem Felsen D965, arguably
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 10, 2018, 11:49:12 PM
1. Schubert, for the reasons given above
2. Any composers killed in war (especially ww1)
3. Any composers murdered by the Nazis
(In fact with 2 & 3 i’d like to give them normal lifespans
4. Gerald Finzi, because we would have turned from a great composer into a very great one
5. Robert Simpson, i wish his final six years had been as fruitful as the previous six (before he suffered a stroke)
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Wanderer on August 10, 2018, 11:55:57 PM
Beethoven
Mozart
Schubert
Bruckner
Skalkottas
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2018, 12:43:35 AM
George Gershwin (obviously)
Leevi Madetoja (the manuscript of his fourth symphony went lost during a train trip; he would have written a great cycle).
Gustav Holst (just found a new mature style, wish he'd finished his (third) symphony + some more).
Leo Smit (murdered in Sobibor)
Stanley Bate (his third and fourth symphonies are just great; though there were said to be 'a dozen' more, nothing has been found yet).


Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: ritter on August 11, 2018, 12:58:01 AM
Richard Wagner. Parsifal would probably have been his last opera in any case, but he had talked of turning to symphonic music after it. Alas, that was not to be.

Manuel de Falla: He might have made some progress in the fascinating Atlántida.

Bruno Maderna: One of the most fascinating figures of the postwar avant-garde died too young, and still had many things to say.

Ferrucio Busoni: Although very precocious, Busoni’s music only became really interesting after the turn of the century, and by the time of his death he had developed an individual voice that could have produced many things (and he would have completed Doktor Faust).

Mozart: How would he have evolved if he had lived another 5 (or even better, another 30) years?
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Judith on August 11, 2018, 02:42:13 AM
Brahms   If there was the medical knowledge of today, he would  have had treatment and lived to compose approx five more symphonies
Schumann  Todays drugs would have made him mentally and physically stable so would also have given us more symphonies
Schubert Would have gone back to his symphony no 8
Tchaikovsky If he had not been drinking the water in the restaurant a third piano concerto
Bruckner Would have completed his symphony no 9
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2018, 03:15:35 AM
Great thread idea:

Bruckner - so that he could finish Symphony 9

George Butterworth - a major talent killed in WW1

Ernest Farrar - as for Butterworth

Ciurlionis - a talented painter and composer who died too young

Lili Boulanger (as for Ciurlionis)

Also agree with Johan (Christo) about Stanley Bate and with San Antone's Gershwin (and Hendrix) choices.

Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: aukhawk on August 11, 2018, 04:32:06 AM
2. Shostakovich: Though he had a great and very satisfying ending with No. 15, there were reports that he was working on a No. 16 when he died.  What that might have been?

He might have written a couple more string quartets - I've seen it suggested he was going for a 'set' of 24, one in each key.  But he was quite depressed and in a lot of pain, so I wouldn't wish those extra years on him really.

Quote
5. Sibelius: This is a controversial choice and I am torn with adding it to my list because he had 32 years to finish No. 8.  I suppose I just wish we had an opportunity to hear the work in its final form that he considered the culmination of his artistry but frankly, not sure if five more years would have mattered. 

I believe he threw the 8th on a bonfire, long before he died.

5. maybe Mendelssohn. To be honest I don't know his work that well yet, but one thing that has struck me when looking at lists of his works is how many there were that he hadn't got around to publishing from the last couple of years of his life, and it just seems like he was someone who had plenty more to offer.

I've always felt he kinda peaked at 16, and it was all downhill after that.  ;)
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: NikF on August 11, 2018, 04:43:06 AM
Brahms   If there was the medical knowledge of today, he would  have had treatment and lived to compose approx five more symphonies
Schumann  Todays drugs would have made him mentally and physically stable so would also have given us more symphonies
Schubert Would have gone back to his symphony no 8
Tchaikovsky If he had not been drinking the water in the restaurant a third piano concerto
Bruckner Would have completed his symphony no 9

Interesting choices/explanations. Regarding Schumann - obviously the best thing for him and his family would be that he receive such medical treatment, however, I wonder if that would have had a side effect in that it coloured his ability in some way.
And Brahms - yes, absolutely.  8)
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Cato on August 11, 2018, 04:48:55 AM
Beethoven

Skalkottas


Of course!  Beethoven's Tenth Symphony or Sixth Piano Concerto, and any additional Skalkottas works would be wonderful!


Ferrucio Busoni: Although very precocious, Busoni’s music only became really interesting after the turn of the century, and by the time of his death he had developed an individual voice that could have produced many things(and he would have completed Doctor Faust).


Given Busoni's affection for new microtonal tunings, he might have given the movement some heft, if he had lived longer.


Brahms   If there was the medical knowledge of today, he would  have had treatment and lived to compose approx five more symphonies


Brahms: given the enigmatic nature of the Fourth Symphony, any future ones might have approached a quasi-Webernian compression.  Schoenberg always saw Brahms as a musical ancestor, as much as (if not more than)  Mahler, Bruckner, or Wagner,
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Alek Hidell on August 11, 2018, 05:46:21 AM
Schubert
Beethoven (let's not forget, he was only 56 when he died - speaking as a 52-year-old, I can tell you that 56 isn't very old ;))
Mahler (one wonders if his works would have gotten shorter and less "over-the-top" as the Second Viennese School continued to influence his outlook)
Gershwin
Purcell
Leo Ornstein ;D
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: kyjo on August 11, 2018, 07:11:13 AM
Schubert, easily, and no one else comes close. His evolution in his final few years was so dramatic, and his last 10-12 major compositions were masterpieces every single one, and I must imagine that five more years of Schubert would have changed the world of music forever.

+1
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Ainsi la nuit on August 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
First and foremost, without a moment's hesitation, I'll nominate Alban Berg.

The other four: Mahler, Webern, Debussy and Schubert.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Artem on August 11, 2018, 09:12:42 AM
Morton Feldman
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Mahlerian on August 11, 2018, 09:15:18 AM
Mahler (one wonders if his works would have gotten shorter and less "over-the-top" as the Second Viennese School continued to influence his outlook)

Don't forget that the influence went both ways!  With Mahler still around, Schoenberg might have actually finished that projected hour-long symphony with a chorus of 2,000.

I would nominate

Berg
Lili Boulanger
Mahler
Mozart
Purcell
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: (: premont :) on August 11, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
J S Bach
Nicolaus Bruhns
Nicolas de Grigny
Louis Couperin
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Alek Hidell on August 11, 2018, 10:20:23 AM
Don't forget that the influence went both ways!  With Mahler still around, Schoenberg might have actually finished that projected hour-long symphony with a chorus of 2,000.

Heh, I started to say something about that (the two-way influence, I mean) but finally didn't.

Speaking of which, sort of, I could easily have put Berg on my list.

Quote from: artem
Morton Feldman

Or this guy - he was only 61 at his death. He might have written a third string quartet that took five years to perform! :)
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 11, 2018, 11:31:36 AM
Guillaume Lekeu - A Belgian composer that died too young (24). His output contains some true gems such as the String Quartet and the Violin Sonata. A true gifted composer, his style could have evolved incredibly.

Carl Nielsen - We know this master intended composing five concertos for the wind quintet instruments (flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon and french horn), of which he could complete the first two. His style was taking new paths with his 6th Symphony. It would have been interesting if he had composed more works.

Ottorino Respighi - Another favorite of mine. With Metamorphoseon, he was trying to incorporate some more advanced ideas in his music. I would have loved if he had composed some exotic works based on Chinese or Japanese cultures.

Albéric Magnard - He was murdered for the reasons we know. He left us a small output, but a very compelling one. I would liked more symphonies or chamber works by him.

Hans Rott - His only (I think) symphony is marvelous. Rott had a tragic fate, where Brahms had an important but unlucky role. He would have been one of the most prominent figures of the symphony evolution if he had lived more years.

Now the most obvious ones: Schubert, Beethoven, Mahler, Tchaikovsky and Brahms.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2018, 11:39:59 AM
Guillaume Lekeu - A Belgian composer that died too young (24). His output contains some true gems such as the String Quartet and the Violin Sonata. A true gifted composer, his style could have evolved incredibly.

Carl Nielsen - We know this master intended composing five concertos for the wind quintet instruments (flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon and french horn), of which he could complete the first two. His style was taking new paths with his 6th Symphony. It would have been interesting if he had composed more works.

Ottorino Respighi - Another favorite of mine. With Metamorphoseon, he was trying to incorporate some more advanced ideas in his music. I would have loved if he had composed some exotic works based on Chinese or Japanese cultures.

Albéric Magnard - He was murdered for the reasons we know. He left us a small output, but a very compelling one. I would liked more symphonies or chamber works by him.

Hans Rott - His only (I think) symphony is marvelous. Rott had a tragic fate, where Brahms had an important but unlucky role. He would been one of the most prominent figures of the symphony evolution if he had lived more years.

Now the most obvious ones: Schubert, Beethoven, Mahler, Tchaikovsky and Brahms.

Don't know the first one but agree with all the others. Some think that Respighi would have become a Hollywood composer had he lived on.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: kyjo on August 11, 2018, 12:10:39 PM
Very much agree with those who mentioned Lili Boulanger and Magnard. The former’s Psalm 130 and the latter’s 4th Symphony - both composed just before their deaths - have been recent revelations to me and indicate that both composers could’ve achieved even greater things had they lived longer.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2018, 10:08:02 PM
Have given this some more thought, so, list No. 2:

Bruckner

Holst

Boulanger

G. Butterworth

Gershwin
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on August 11, 2018, 11:58:03 PM
...
Nicolas de Grigny
...

Now there's an interesting and enlightened choice! I have thought for some time that Grigny was one of the great "what if's" in classical music, having died as young as he did. The small body of work he created showed great creativity and melodic invention. I find much of it, especially the mass to be deeply moving. Even Bach revered his work a great deal.

My list would include some obvious choices:

J.S. Bach
Beethoven
Mendelssohn
Brahms
Debussy

Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: arpeggio on August 12, 2018, 06:10:46 AM
So many times when members propose a list like this I come up with too many choices.  Like what are your five favorite symphonies and my list would be twenty symphonies too long.

Well I can come up with just five.

For me they would be:

Mahler
Gershwin
Mozart
Schubert
Puccini (What would we have if he actually completed Turandot).

I think this would be a great game or poll.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Ken B on August 12, 2018, 06:19:44 AM
Interesting that there are different ideas about the “obvious” ones! I would say the “obvious ones”, which may or may not be my own choices, would be great composers who died young. So
Schubert
Mozart
Debussy

Would seem to top the list. Is there a list here with all 3?

Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: bwv 1080 on August 12, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
Beethoven
Schumann
Debussy
Bartok
Elliott Carter
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 12, 2018, 07:10:52 AM
First and foremost, without a moment's hesitation, I'll nominate Alban Berg.

The other four: Mahler, Webern, Debussy and Schubert.

I checked the thread to see if anyone had already said Webern.

Of course, five years later, and there would have been no curfew during which he would have been shot . . . .
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Christo on August 12, 2018, 07:28:56 AM
I checked the thread to see if anyone had already said Webern.

Of course, five years later, and there would have been no curfew during which he would have been shot . . . .
But the Allied occupation of Vienna - including by the Soviets - lasted for five years more, til 1955: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Austria
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 12, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
Well, you're right.  I ought even to have thought The Third Man . . . .
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: San Antone on August 12, 2018, 07:36:29 AM
I checked the thread to see if anyone had already said Webern.

He was on my list.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 12, 2018, 07:39:16 AM
He was on my list.

In the direction I went, I missed you.  Sorry!
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: JohnP on August 12, 2018, 08:03:33 AM
Thomas Linley
G. F. Pinto
Purcell
Finzi
G.Butterworth
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: aukhawk on August 12, 2018, 09:10:49 AM
Alkan - with a note to avoid tall bookcases.
Lully - with a note to abandon his staff and adopt the new-fangled baton.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: brunumb on August 12, 2018, 09:50:41 PM
I really, really, really want Puccini to finish Turandot.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 12, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
Interesting that there are different ideas about the “obvious” ones! I would say the “obvious ones”, which may or may not be my own choices, would be great composers who died young. So
Schubert
Mozart
Debussy

Would seem to top the list. Is there a list here with all 3?

2 out of 3. I decided I had enough Mozart.  :D
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 13, 2018, 01:53:35 AM
After hearing Lili Boulanger's 'Pour Les Funerailles d'un Soldat' live in London last night it confirms my choice of her. A great talent cut off aged 24.

In fact I wish that Lili Boulanger had lived for an additional sixty years.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Florestan on August 13, 2018, 11:06:15 AM
Mozart
Schubert
Chopin
Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninoff


Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: kyjo on August 13, 2018, 01:04:47 PM

Rachmaninoff


I hadn’t thought of him, but an excellent choice, despite the fact that he lived a reasonably long life. If those Symphonic Dances are anything to go by, he could’ve churned out a couple more masterpieces had he lived five more years.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 13, 2018, 01:38:43 PM
Rachmaninov crossed my mind, but I decided that what he needed wasn’t more years but more time in the years that he already had.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 13, 2018, 03:17:18 PM
Rachmaninov crossed my mind, but I decided that what he needed wasn’t more years but more time in the years that he already had.

This is a very interesting point.  Some composers squandered their years and others were robbed of them.  If Sibelius who lived to be 91 had five more years what would that have mattered?  Meanwhile had Lili Boulanger lived 50 more years what would she have achieved since she was only 25 years old when she died and showed so much mastery? 
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Ken B on August 13, 2018, 06:23:52 PM
Schubert
Mozart
Debussy
Purcell
Chopin

There were certainly a lot of talents who died before 30 — Arriaga, Lekeu, Boulanger, Ives (brain death) — but I am looking at sure things.

And Andrei, not Weber?

Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Florestan on August 13, 2018, 11:31:23 PM
And Andrei, not Weber?

Ooops, I forgot about him. Yes, Weber too.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 14, 2018, 12:27:15 AM
I hadn’t thought of him, but an excellent choice, despite the fact that he lived a reasonably long life. If those Symphonic Dances are anything to go by, he could’ve churned out a couple more masterpieces had he lived five more years.
+1
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 14, 2018, 02:54:16 AM
This is a very interesting point.  Some composers squandered their years and others were robbed of them. 

For Rachmaninov, he spent most of his time after he left Russia as a performer, rather than a composer. He spent all of his time touring. This was how he was able to earn a living (having lost most of his former possessions), but it severely curtailed his composing.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 14, 2018, 05:51:27 AM
For Rachmaninov, he spent most of his time after he left Russia as a performer, rather than a composer. He spent all of his time touring. This was how he was able to earn a living (having lost most of his former possessions), but it severely curtailed his composing.

But also like Sibelius - 5 more years wouldn't have really added much to his body of works.  He probably still wouldn't have finished No. 8.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: DaveF on August 14, 2018, 07:23:27 AM
Carl Nielsen - We know this master intended composing five concertos for the wind quintet instruments (flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon and french horn), of which he could complete the first two. His style was taking new paths with his 6th Symphony. It would have been interesting if he had composed more works.

Yes, got to have him on the list, although I'm not sure we'd have got any more concerti; it seems as though his interest flagged after the first one (flute) and he had to be bullied into writing the one for clarinet (luckily Oxenvad the clarinettist was a bully).  But the 6th symphony, the 3 motets and Commotio seem to point the way to something quite new.

And I want more Gibbons - 20 years for him.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 14, 2018, 03:21:31 PM
Three more from me...

* Lepo Sumera who at 50 died way too young and I love his music so much. 
* Arthur Butterworth who died at the age of 91 was extremely prolific up to the end.  I wish he had written more because I love his output...it is sort of like an amalgamation of post Sibelius/Vaughan Williams/Bax.
* Derek Bourgeois who died a year ago and was a friend of mine.  I miss him and his amazing compositional skills. 
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 14, 2018, 10:02:07 PM
Three more from me...

* Lepo Sumera who at 50 died way too young and I love his music so much. 
* Arthur Butterworth who died at the age of 91 was extremely prolific up to the end.  I wish he had written more because I love his output...it is sort of like an amalgamation of post Sibelius/Vaughan Williams/Bax.
* Derek Bourgeois who died a year ago and was a friend of mine.  I miss him and his amazing compositional skills.

Definitely agree with Sumera who died much too young. His Second Symphony, in particular, is a magnificent work - 'modern music with a soul' in my opinion. Arthur Butterworth's 4th Symphony is terrific with an ending which has me on the edge of my seat. I like the quotation from Sibelius's 'The Tempest' as well. Don't know much about Derek Bourgeois but interesting that he was your friend.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 15, 2018, 03:55:20 AM
* Derek Bourgeois who died a year ago and was a friend of mine.  I miss him and his amazing compositional skills. 

I'd like to hear something!
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 15, 2018, 05:18:09 AM
I'd like to hear something!

You might like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLnAHa2aBmk

and he is very big in the brass world. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2a5A-y4L7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYRolAFz3WQ

His style is very British so if you like William Walton, George Lloyd, Vaughan Williams, Herbert Howell, Malcolm Arnold, etc., you should find much to enjoy here.  He had the same post at St. Paul's Girl's school as Gustav Holst and even had the same office/desk and similarly to Holst's St. Paul's Suite, Bourgeois wrote many works for students and competitions.  He was music director/founder of the National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain.  His teachers at Cambridge included Herbert Howells and Sir Adrian Boult.  The symphonies before No. 7 were all performed and broadcast by various BBC orchestras.  In 2002, after Symphony No. 7, he retired and focused full time on composing without much concern if his music would be performed.  This is point where his output exploded.  He wrote 109 more symphonies from 2002 to 2017.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 15, 2018, 05:52:44 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 15, 2018, 10:44:59 AM
In 2002, after Symphony No. 7, he retired and focused full time on composing without much concern if his music would be performed.  This is point where his output exploded.  He wrote 109 more symphonies from 2002 to 2017.

 :o  109? Is that a typo? That's six or seven symphonies a year! If true, that puts Havergal in the shade  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 15, 2018, 12:38:15 PM
Another composer I forgot mentioning is Mieczyslaw Karlowicz (1876-1909), a truly promising Polish composer who died skiing in the Tatra Mountains. His output comprises chiefly a set of great tone poems (Returning Waves, Eternal Songs, Lithuanian Rhapsody, Stanisław and Anna Oświecimowie, A Sad Tale, and Episod during a Masquerade), a Symphony in E minor Rebirth, a Violin Concerto in A major and a Serenade for strings. Some consider his tone poems superior to those by Strauss (I don't give any opinion about it  :) ).

A big loss for music without any doubt.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Cato on August 15, 2018, 01:08:24 PM
Three more from me...

* Lepo Sumera who at 50 died way too young and I love his music so much. 
* Arthur Butterworth who died at the age of 91 was extremely prolific up to the end.  I wish he had written more because I love his output...it is sort of like an amalgamation of post Sibelius/Vaughan Williams/Bax.
* Derek Bourgeois who died a year ago and was a friend of mine.  I miss him and his amazing compositional skills.

:o  109? Is that a typo? That's six or seven symphonies a year! If true, that puts Havergal in the shade  ;D

Sarge

Sarge , I  think your eye skipped!  Bourgeois was born in 1941.  ;)
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 15, 2018, 01:35:03 PM
Charles Ives. A few extra years and he could've written some crazy new insurance policies.


And perhaps completed his Universe Symphony.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: André on August 15, 2018, 03:28:30 PM
Another composer I forgot mentioning is Mieczyslaw Karlowicz (1876-1909), a truly promising Polish composer who died skiing in the Tatra Mountains. His output comprises chiefly a set of great tone poems (Returning Waves, Eternal Songs, Lithuanian Rhapsody, Stanisław and Anna Oświecimowie, A Sad Tale, and Episod during a Masquerade), a Symphony in E minor Rebirth, a Violin Concerto in A major and a Serenade for strings. Some consider his tone poems superior to those by Strauss (I don't give any opinion about it  :) ).

A big loss for music without any doubt.

+ 1

- Pergolesi
- Arriaga
- Lekeu (Guillaume)
- Boulanger (Lili)
- Alain (Jehan)

All of the above died in their twenties (Arriaga was 19 ???). There’s a sense of unfinished business about their oeuvre. That is not the case with most composers who died in their thirties, since they had the time to bequeath the world many fully formed masterpieces.



Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 15, 2018, 03:32:55 PM
:o  109? Is that a typo? That's six or seven symphonies a year! If true, that puts Havergal in the shade  ;D

Sarge

Sarge, no typo.  He died last year having written 116 symphonies.   Before 2002 he had composed 7.   Here is a good traversal of his output: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/feb/09/derek-bourgeois-symphonies

The article is from 2009 when Derek had reached Symphony No. 44. 
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 15, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
+ James Horner one of my favorite film composers who died way too young and was in the midst of a Renaissance.  He composed several concert works the last years of his life that are wonderful.  Full of joy and hope.  One of my own works is dedicated to him since I was composing it when he died and has a few "tips of the hat" to him.  He died tragically in a plane crash at the age of 62. 
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 15, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
+ James Horner one of my favorite film composers who died way too young and was in the midst of a Renaissance.  He composed several concert works the last years of his life that are wonderful.  Full of joy and hope.  One of my own works is dedicated to him since I was composing it when he died and has a few "tips of the hat" to him.  He died tragically in a plane crash at the age of 62.
+1

His death saddened me too. I admired his work from 'The Name of the Rose' onwards.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Brian on August 21, 2018, 04:09:57 AM
Three more from me...

* Lepo Sumera who at 50 died way too young and I love his music so much. 
Robert von Bahr, who recorded his orchestral works for BIS Records, has a sad story about Sumera. The man was so addicted to alcohol that the sound booth reeked of it just from his presence. RvB agrees with you about the tragedy of it...
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Florestan on August 21, 2018, 05:15:05 AM
Carl Filtsch (1830-1845), born in Sebeș (Mühlbach) in present-day Romania.  At the time of his death he was considered Chopin's best pupil. Had he lived five more years he'd have died at 20.  :o

https://www.youtube.com/v/yA5iumIHw6o
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2018, 11:09:57 AM
Another vote for Madetoja from me and a new one for Klami.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 21, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
Sarge, no typo.  He died last year having written 116 symphonies.   Before 2002 he had composed 7.   Here is a good traversal of his output: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/feb/09/derek-bourgeois-symphonies

Thanks for the reply, and the link. Most interesting. I'd love to hear "a short jazz version ("Blue Brahms") of the Passacaglia from Brahms Four."

Sarge
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: kyjo on August 21, 2018, 07:51:14 PM
Korngold. He could've finished his second symphony that he was working on at the time of his death...
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 22, 2018, 02:18:05 AM
Carl Filtsch (1830-1845), born in Sebeș (Mühlbach) in present-day Romania.  At the time of his death he was considered Chopin's best pupil. Had he lived five more years he'd have died at 20.  :o

https://www.youtube.com/v/yA5iumIHw6o

Goodness.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: relm1 on August 22, 2018, 04:48:53 AM
Korngold. He could've finished his second symphony that he was working on at the time of his death...

What about Bernard Herrmann?  Had he lived 5 more years he might have scored the new Star Trek The Motion Picture.
Title: Which 5 composers do you wish were immortal like in the that movie Highlander?
Post by: bwv 1080 on August 22, 2018, 09:58:19 AM
Another 5 years for Jimi Hendrix so that planned Miles Davis collaboration could have happened

and what would be more valuable than 5 more years of Beethoven?
Title: Re: Which 5 composers do you wish were immortal like in the that movie Highlander?
Post by: Florestan on August 22, 2018, 10:18:31 AM
and what would be more valuable than 5 more years of Beethoven?

Five more years of Mozart.

Title: Re: Which 5 composers do you wish were immortal like in the that movie Highlander?
Post by: bwv 1080 on August 22, 2018, 12:07:59 PM
Five more years of Mozart.

But there is already more Mozart than I can listen to
Title: Re: Which 5 composers do you wish were immortal like in the that movie Highlander?
Post by: Florestan on August 22, 2018, 12:10:26 PM
But there is already more Mozart than I can listen to

By the time Beethoven died there was already more Beethoven's music that he could compose.  ;D

EDIT: By which I mean I don't see how far he could have got beyond where he already got in the late string quartets, piano sonatas and the Ninth. He squeezed these forms of all their juices; going farther meant giving them up altogether and coming with something completely new and unheard of. But for all his idiosyncracies and whimsical behavior he was essentially a man of the Enlightenment; besides, his literary culture was Classical --- he couldn't have done it imho. To see it happening the world had to wait the birth of a new generation, nurtured with Romantic literature and harboring genuinely Romantic feelings and thoughts, which he didn't have, witness his failure in the most Romantic of genres, the Lied, the piano non-sonata works and the opera.

On the other hand, had Mozart lived another five years it would have been probably he, not Beethoven, who changed music forever and possibly even Beethoven wouldn't have been the same.

All this is but pure speculation, of course.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: amw on August 24, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
For me the interesting counterfactual is reversing Beethoven and Mozart's lifespans: Beethoven 1770-1806, Mozart 1756-1813. Beethoven dies already a world-famous composer whose "Eroica" stands as an isolated monument larger than any other symphony ever written, with the Fourth and Fifth Symphonies left in sketch form (perhaps Mozart tries his hand at completing them?). Nonetheless, Beethoven is the firebrand who died young, Mozart is the composer who reacts to him and takes his most revolutionary works onboard as influences—as a composer Mozart was voracious in assimilating the styles of others—for another seven years. Any signs of burnout in Mozart's style circa 1791 might thus have not been permanent and instead lead to a period from circa 1795 (when Beethoven began his study with Haydn; presumably Beethoven would have gone to Mozart instead had he been alive) onwards defined by the relationship between Beethoven and Mozart.

Having Beethoven live until 1832 (or even 1837, 1842 etc) is less counterfactual just because he already had plans for what he was going to compose which he shared in the conversation books: another symphony, an additional set of quartets beginning with Op.135, a Requiem and approximately one oratorio per year "in the manner of my grand master Handel".
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: lisa needs braces on August 24, 2018, 10:43:52 PM
Instead of lamenting dead composers let's ask why contemporary composers are incapable of equaling them.  >:D


Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: vandermolen on August 24, 2018, 11:16:52 PM
Robert von Bahr, who recorded his orchestral works for BIS Records, has a sad story about Sumera. The man was so addicted to alcohol that the sound booth reeked of it just from his presence. RvB agrees with you about the tragedy of it...

That is very sad. I think his Second Symphony is great.

The fine Russian/Soviet composer Gavril Popov faced similar issues and was under 70 when he died.

Ever shorter lived was Vissarion Shebalin who would be another candidate in this thread.
Title: Re: Which five composers do you wish had another five years to live?
Post by: Madiel on August 25, 2018, 02:27:12 AM
Instead of lamenting dead composers let's ask why contemporary composers are incapable of equaling them.  >:D

Feel free to start a thread on that.