This request may start an avalanche of replies or a trickle as many posters may have been asked for their thoughts and recommendations previously.
I am looking to add a set of Prokofiev Symphonies to my collection, I currently have the Weller on Decca and would like an alternative take on what is for me a relatively unknown body of work.
Thanks in anticipation.
If you want something very different from Weller, there's Rozhdestvensky, who does not play down any of the barbarity in these works.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Oct14/Prokofiev_sys_MELCD10011797.htm
I think Litton on Bis is probably the best of recent cycles. I liked the Karabits cycle, but that got mixed reviews.
I'd also like to single out this Ashkenazy set for praise:
[asin] B000068QRW[/asin]
I´d go for the Järvi chandos set, maybe supplemented with a few individual extras, if one is really into them.
I have a patchwork set with several recordings of 1 and 5, the Ashkenazy twofer shown above, the cheap "white" Sony box with Leinsdorf (2,3,5,6) and Rozhdestvensky in 1-4 (on an older BMG twofer). The last one is quite "intense" and rough but would probably be a good complement to Weller's.
The
Ozawa/
Berliner box was my second set (my first was the
Järvi, which I wound up returning to circulation) and it remains largely my favorite set.
Quote from: Jo498 on January 01, 2018, 08:26:16 AM
I have a patchwork set with several recordings of 1 and 5, the Ashkenazy twofer shown above, the cheap "white" Sony box with Leinsdorf (2,3,5,6) and Rozhdestvensky in 1-4 (on an older BMG twofer). The last one is quite "intense" and rough but would probably be a good complement to Weller's.
The
Leinsdorf/
BSO box is very nice; I second this 8)
I'd personally go with Järvi (on Chandos) with Litton's partial cycle making a nice supplementary set. The Ashkenazy set that Daverz linked is a good one, too. Speaking of Ashkenazy, I haven't heard his new cycle on the Exton label (w/ the Sydney SO (?)). Has anyone here heard any of those performances?
Not much to add except to agree with others. I think the Weller set is very good and probably the most musical which sometimes is a disservice to this music when you want rawness rather than lyricism. Jarvi is a very good supplement. I also like Dutoit on No. 1 and 5.
I'd also go for Rozhdestvensky although the orchestral playing is not always 100%. Ozawa, Järvi and Kuchar are all quite good as well—sample if you want—although I'm not sure I'd put any of them in the top league.
I'd go for the Gergiev/LSO set, mainly for two reasons:
- the inclusion of both versions of the fourth;
- the terrific performances of the second and the seventh.
The Järvi set btw also has both versions of the 4th:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Jan09/Prokofiev_symphonies_CHAN10500x.htm
This series has gotten very good reviews. I have the one pictured and like it very much--great playing and spectacular sound.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51kQqxDGVpL.jpg)
I like the cycles by Martinon and Rozhdestvensky in addition to the Weller:
[asin]B004FSJPG8[/asin]
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 01, 2018, 08:29:32 AM
The Ozawa/Berliner box was my second set (my first was the Järvi, which I wound up returning to circulation) and it remains largely my favorite set.
The Leinsdorf/BSO box is very nice; I second this 8)
Quote from: GioCar on January 01, 2018, 10:41:47 PM
I'd go for the Gergiev/LSO set, mainly for two reasons:
- the inclusion of both versions of the fourth;
- the terrific performances of the second and the seventh.
I'll let these two do the talkin (typin). 8)
Cheers, Greg!
Thanks for all for the replies - much food for thought.
This may be hard to believe but I had completely forgot that I had the Jarvi box it was for some reason filed in completely the wrong area of my collection, slightly scary!
I have sampled all the suggested sets I could and I am thinking about Gergiev to give a Russian perspective on the symphonies but I am also drawn to Rozhdestvensky, poorer sound and all there seems to be a bit of soul, if that is the right description, in the samples I listened to.
Thanks again,
Malx.
Listening to this recording of 2 and 3 now via Tidal. Sounds fantastic.
[asin]B075MV1X5X[/asin]
I was not prepared to be destroyed on hearing Prokofiev's Symphony No.7 for the first time (Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln). Wow, simply wow.
I'm now going through the Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln box and have gone through symphonies 1-4. A great journey, I'm totally new to Prokofiev. I've decided this was the year to finally explore Sibelius, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Myaskovsky. Aces!
Quote from: Leo K. on October 26, 2020, 07:13:10 AM
I was not prepared to be destroyed on hearing Prokofiev's Symphony No.7 for the first time (Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln). Wow, simply wow.
I'm now going through the Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln box and have gone through symphonies 1-4. A great journey, I'm totally new to Prokofiev. I've decided this was the year to finally explore Sibelius, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Myaskovsky. Aces!
Excellent!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 01, 2018, 08:29:32 AM
The Ozawa/Berliner box was my second set (my first was the Järvi, which I wound up returning to circulation) and it remains largely my favorite set.
The Leinsdorf/BSO box is very nice; I second this 8)
Did Dutoit/Montreal make a set? His 1 and 5 are fantastic as is all his other Prokofiev but I'm not aware if they went beyond 1 and 5.
Prokofiev's Symphonies 5 and 6 (Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln) are so incredible I'm at a loss of words!
I also listened to Ashkenazy in these performances and they kind of do a better job! I now have the Ozawa set and can't wait to get into that. Aces!
The Fifth & Sixth are stone-cold classics. I'm also a huge fan of the Second.
Quote from: Leo K. on October 29, 2020, 08:40:28 AM
Prokofiev's Symphonies 5 and 6 (Kitayenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln) are so incredible I'm at a loss of words!
I also listened to Ashkenazy in these performances and they kind of do a better job! I now have the Ozawa set and can't wait to get into that. Aces!
Yes, Ashkenazy did one of the best recordings of 6 with the Cleveland Orchestra.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/418LGtKLWsL.jpg)
I am now going through the Ozawa set - wow he is making me get a handle on the 3rd! And the 4th - wow head was blown!
Excellent!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 29, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
The Fifth & Sixth are stone-cold classics. I'm also a huge fan of the Second.
They are all fantastic. I love them all. Even both the 4ths. But I insist on the original 7th ending.
Quote from: relm1 on November 02, 2020, 04:08:54 PM
They are all fantastic. I love them all. Even both the 4ths. But I insist on the original 7th ending.
+1
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 29, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
The Fifth & Sixth are stone-cold classics. I'm also a huge fan of the Second.
You forgot nr 1.
8)
Now listening selectively to my 2 sets of Prokofiev Symphonies, i.e. Järvi & Kitajenko - the last shown below is Litton who has received some 'thumbs up' in a number of threads - not sure if I want to replace the ones owned but could add a third set? Years ago I culled out Valery Gergiev (preferred Kitajenko's approach) - for those wondering about Kitajenko, reviews are attached. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/719qbnZ59XL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51hoAp1qXDL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71vCZSsrSQL._SL1219_.jpg)
Dave,
I really like Alsop in these symphonies.
Quote from: DavidW on May 22, 2022, 09:13:11 AM
Dave,
I really like Alsop in these symphonies.
Thanks
David for the Alsop recommendation - her symphony collection is 6 discs w/ a lot of 'extras' - I'll go on Spotify to see what is available there - :) Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/8106exHvRBL._SL1500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81Jo+WJbA+L._SL1500_.jpg)
You know what's a fabulous cycle? Walter Weller's London Philharmonic/Symphony cycle is wonderful! I started listening to it yesterday and am currently on Symphony No. 3 and am struck with the precision, weight, clarity, and lyricism of this set. It's very good so far.
The set has many different covers.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61RpoC25ADL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41klKT1A5wL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)(https://i.discogs.com/oAiSxBvJUIkhBkCZshgpzbSX58hjRy0CB0PP9ShCBQs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3NzY3/OTAtMTI0Mjg5NTk2/OS5qcGVn.jpeg)
Quote from: relm1 on April 15, 2023, 05:33:15 AMYou know what's a fabulous cycle? Walter Weller's London Philharmonic/Symphony cycle is wonderful! I started listening to it yesterday and am currently on Symphony No. 3 and am struck with the precision, weight, clarity, and lyricism of this set. It's very good so far.
The set has many different covers.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61RpoC25ADL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41klKT1A5wL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)(https://i.discogs.com/oAiSxBvJUIkhBkCZshgpzbSX58hjRy0CB0PP9ShCBQs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3NzY3/OTAtMTI0Mjg5NTk2/OS5qcGVn.jpeg)
Completely agree on the quality of this set; playing/recording/interpretation. Not sure Weller got Decca's "full" backing/promotion when he was recording for them. So as a cycle (and the same is true of his Rachmaninov set) they are known and obviously available but rarely considered when discussing "best cycles" of either composer. I'm not sayng they ARE the best but I certainly prefer them to others which are considered contenders.......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 16, 2023, 12:08:09 AMCompletely agree on the quality of this set; playing/recording/interpretation. Not sure Weller got Decca's "full" backing/promotion when he was recording for them. So as a cycle (and the same is true of his Rachmaninov set) they are known and obviously available but rarely considered when discussing "best cycles" of either composer. I'm not sayng they ARE the best but I certainly prefer them to others which are considered contenders.......
So far, I've finished No. 3 and 4. Tonight will listen to 5. Who would you consider ARE the best so I can add those to my list if I haven't already heard them?
The Weller set is wonderful. I also like Leinsdorf (not complete).
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 16, 2023, 07:24:48 AMThe Weller set is wonderful. I also like Leinsdorf (not complete).
Leinsdorf is a Boston Legend!
Quote from: Karl Henning on April 16, 2023, 08:32:26 AMLeinsdorf is a Boston Legend!
Great conductor! Karl, btw, do you like The Boston Globe paper like I do?
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on April 16, 2023, 08:36:12 AMGreat conductor! Karl, btw, do you like The Boston Globe paper like I do?
I do, indeed!
Quote from: Karl Henning on April 16, 2023, 08:32:26 AMLeinsdorf is a Boston Legend!
That is one BIG
AMEN!, especially for his
Prokofiev recordings with the
Boston SymphonyI have not yet heard the
Walter Weller/London Symphony/Philharmonic set, but the
Symphonies #3 and #6 under
Maestro Leinsdorf are fantastic!
I first heard them when they were new in the 1960's...
and my poor, little stereo system almost had a meltdown...especially with #3! (Insert
ANGEL E M O T I C O N here!) ;)
Quote from: Karl Henning on April 16, 2023, 08:32:26 AMLeinsdorf is a Boston Legend!
Not only in Boston! ;)
I was lucky enough to see
Leinsdorf conduct
Das Rheingold and
Siegfried at the Met in the early 80s. To think that the man had been conducting there for almost 50 years!
This is making me nostalgic. One of my most cherished LPs back in the day:
(https://i.discogs.com/NMCFkizd08hsXcYSfahRu2bJ4PBYU6PkEwsJJCn732M/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:393/w:400/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTQyNjE1/ODgtMTM2MDAyODg4/OS02Nzg2LmpwZWc.jpeg)
Note that this is with the Philharmonia, not Boston. A great Ravel Left Hand Concerto as well. These were orignally on Capitol records. There was also a great Kije and Hary Janos record with the Philharmonia:
(https://i.discogs.com/tg6ARrWUlAY8GNC3TR-hMowvrUdnht4GCMNkPW5Efbk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUwMDU2/ODItMTQxNTEzODA3/MC0zMDAyLmpwZWc.jpeg)
Leinsdorf uses the sung parts in the Kije both here and on his RCA recording.
EMI then released this CD
(https://i.discogs.com/8tCWqtHjdxA8ZuMDvDfZfS5qOw1LLgP0oSNX7Fkvk4g/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:513/w:522/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE4MjU5/ODAxLTE2MTgxOTQw/MzMtMjA1MC5qcGVn.jpeg)
Unfortunately, 80 minute CDs weren't a thing back then, so they left off one movement of the Hary Janos. >:(
To get back on topic, I can highly recommend this recent digital-only issue:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/yb/qb/ktq0gdnimqbyb_600.jpg)
Fantastic sonics and playing in Cleveland. They've also recorded Symphonies Nos. 2 and 3. Perhaps the rest will follow.
Quote from: Karl Henning on April 16, 2023, 08:32:26 AMLeinsdorf is a Boston Legend!
He introduced me to Mahler I think (old memories)
Tonight, I listened to Walter Weller's cycle continuing with No. 5 and 6. These are flawless. I think it mustn't be forgotten that despite Prokofiev's harsh harmonies (which I happen to love), he is in his heart, a lyricist. Weller really gets that. The phrasing and lyrical structure is never lost nor is the harsh harmonies that are so characteristic of this composer. No. 5 is so damn good. Also great was the tam-tam. I'll geek out for a moment. English versus French versus Russians think of gong and tam-tam differently. For example, Elgar and Holst state a gong is required but it is performed by a tam-tam. I asked a major orchestra's percussionist about this, and they explained that gongs are sort of an umbrella category that can include a gong up through a larger tam-tam. Generally, the gong is smaller and higher pitched. But what about a small tam-tam? French might use a smaller/higher sounding tone than the Russians. Like a Shostakovich tam-tam is darker than a Ravel Tam-tam. Scriabin might use a huge, longer toned tam-tam. Generally, a Prokofiev/Shostakovich tam-tam is 32" to 38". I love the tam-tam the LSO is using in Walter Weller's, it's very Russian and likely between 32" to 38". It has that quality. This is part of why I adore this cycle (so far as I've reached No. 6) it is lyrical, dramatic, epic, and has the gravitas of the music. It's a marvelous cycle! My favorite so far...but I'll explore others next. To my ears, Walter Weller is the equal to Beethoven's Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra / Carlos Kleiber cycle.
Quote from: relm1 on April 16, 2023, 04:36:04 PMTonight, I listened to Walter Weller's cycle continuing with No. 5 and 6. These are flawless. I think it mustn't be forgotten that despite Prokofiev's harsh harmonies (which I happen to love), he is in his heart, a lyricist. Weller really gets that. The phrasing and lyrical structure is never lost nor is the harsh harmonies that are so characteristic of this composer. No. 5 is so damn good. Also great was the tam-tam. I'll geek out for a moment. English versus French versus Russians think of gong and tam-tam differently. For example, Elgar and Holst state a gong is required but it is performed by a tam-tam. I asked a major orchestra's percussionist about this, and they explained that gongs are sort of an umbrella category that can include a gong up through a larger tam-tam. Generally, the gong is smaller and higher pitched. But what about a small tam-tam? French might use a smaller/higher sounding tone than the Russians. Like a Shostakovich tam-tam is darker than a Ravel Tam-tam. Scriabin might use a huge, longer toned tam-tam. Generally, a Prokofiev/Shostakovich tam-tam is 32" to 38". I love the tam-tam the LSO is using in Walter Weller's, it's very Russian and likely between 32" to 38". It has that quality. This is part of why I adore this cycle (so far as I've reached No. 6) it is lyrical, dramatic, epic, and has the gravitas of the music. It's a marvelous cycle! My favorite so far...but I'll explore others next. To my ears, Walter Weller is the equal to Beethoven's Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra / Carlos Kleiber cycle.
Interesting stuff! As a slight aside before going back to Prokofiev - you are not strictly correct about Elgar. For example in his "Crown of India" music he stipulates in the score BOTH a gong AND a tam-tam - he even gives the gong a pitch stating "gong in D" for the opening Introduction movement(!) The closing "March of the Mogul Emperors" so beloved of the Great Sage Across the Sea has parts for both "Big Gong" and Tam-Tam so clearly Elgar understood/appreciated the subtle differences. Off the top of my head I can't think of many other Elgar scores where he used a gong/tam-tam except Gerontius (the latter just marked "Tam" in score)?
Re Prokofiev cycles I slightly misled you. I know/have Weller/Jarvi/Kitajenko/Martinon all of which I enjoy in their different ways. What I meant by "considering Weller" was not that I know say Litton or Alsop or Gergiev etc but simply that Weller is still of such a musical and technical calibre to be used as a valid comparison. Jarvi for years was the go-to cycle and of course included the alternative versions of No.4 which Weller doesn't. Your point about Prokofiev the astringent lyricist is absolutely valid. I enjoy the Martinon cycle because Martinon is such a good conductor. But this
is a cycle where the quality of playing and recording is not at the same level of more modern performances so there is a degree of compromise needed on that front - but they are by no means "bad" and I think worth hearing as interpretations.
The Weller set was the first one I owned and I always thought highly of it and still do.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 16, 2023, 11:46:48 PMInteresting stuff! As a slight aside before going back to Prokofiev - you are not strictly correct about Elgar. For example in his "Crown of India" music he stipulates in the score BOTH a gong AND a tam-tam - he even gives the gong a pitch stating "gong in D" for the opening Introduction movement(!) The closing "March of the Mogul Emperors" so beloved of the Great Sage Across the Sea has parts for both "Big Gong" and Tam-Tam so clearly Elgar understood/appreciated the subtle differences. Off the top of my head I can't think of many other Elgar scores where he used a gong/tam-tam except Gerontius (the latter just marked "Tam" in score)?
Re Prokofiev cycles I slightly misled you. I know/have Weller/Jarvi/Kitajenko/Martinon all of which I enjoy in their different ways. What I meant by "considering Weller" was not that I know say Litton or Alsop or Gergiev etc but simply that Weller is still of such a musical and technical calibre to be used as a valid comparison. Jarvi for years was the go-to cycle and of course included the alternative versions of No.4 which Weller doesn't. Your point about Prokofiev the astringent lyricist is absolutely valid. I enjoy the Martinon cycle because Martinon is such a good conductor. But this is a cycle where the quality of playing and recording is not at the same level of more modern performances so there is a degree of compromise needed on that front - but they are by no means "bad" and I think worth hearing as interpretations.
Fair point about Elgar and Crown of India. My description was more of a generalization though can imagine at times they were specific.
What modern cycles do you think hold up as peers to the vintage cycles?