Does anyone know who this conductor is?
I know only this: The picture was taken between 1958 and 1964.
And he has conducted the Vienna Singverein -- and therefore most probably -- the Vienna Philharmonic.
All guesses (and dead-on identifications) much appreciated!
Looks a bit like him ?
https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/news-photo/conductor-and-member-of-the-vienna-philharmonic-orchestra-news-photo/503014573 (https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/news-photo/conductor-and-member-of-the-vienna-philharmonic-orchestra-news-photo/503014573)
Quote from: Papy Oli on December 04, 2019, 05:00:28 AM
Looks a bit like him ?
https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/news-photo/conductor-and-member-of-the-vienna-philharmonic-orchestra-news-photo/503014573 (https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/news-photo/conductor-and-member-of-the-vienna-philharmonic-orchestra-news-photo/503014573)
A wee bit, but no match. Faltl has a much bigger head. Our mystery conductor... I don't want to get into the dastardly anti-science of physiognomy too much, but he looks Eastern or Southern Austrian "at his most Western". Maybe Hungarian. Then again, he might just as well be French, so what do I know. But those sad eyes!
When I put his image in at Getty Images search, I get this, as the no.2 result:
https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/photo/beautiful-woman-with-stylish-hairstyle-royalty-free-image/486949044 (https://www.gettyimages.fi/detail/photo/beautiful-woman-with-stylish-hairstyle-royalty-free-image/486949044)
In a way, it puts my mind at ease as regards the ease (or lack thereof) that computers still have, with facial reckognition.
The Wiener Singverein isn't very helpful. It gives a long list of all its past conductors but you have to click on each one to find dates and then search elsewhere for an image. I gave up after checking a few likely suspects.
Quote from: Biffo on December 04, 2019, 05:10:25 AM
The Wiener Singverein isn't very helpful. It gives a long list of all its past conductors but you have to click on each one to find dates and then search elsewhere for an image. I gave up after checking a few likely suspects.
Yes, they are not helpful yet... they're in the process of digitizing their archive. It's for them that I ask. ;D
I also don't think he's on their list. I just went through it all... and didn't find a match.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 04, 2019, 05:06:57 AM
A wee bit, but no match. Faltl has a much bigger head. Our mystery conductor... I don't want to get into the dastardly anti-science of physiognomy too much, but he looks Eastern or Southern Austrian "at his most Western". Maybe Hungarian. Then again, he might just as well be French, so what do I know. But those sad eyes!
Reverse image search only gave me "gentleman" as a result... I prefer yours ;D
i found the close getty pic by searching vienna conductors 1960...but no other luck beyond this one.
I don't know the answer but I'm fascinated by this thread!
There's a hint of Barbirolli in this guy... but not enough.
He looks not tall, curiously enough.
Where did you get the picture?
Must be a guy born around 1900.
Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2019, 06:03:58 AM
Where did you get the picture?
Must be a guy born around 1900.
The picture is from the Archives of the Singverein.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 04, 2019, 06:05:33 AM
The picture is from the Archives of the Singverein.
A single photo of a guy in the Archives of the Singverein, without any reference whatsoever. Looks like a mystery novel. :D
Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2019, 06:09:38 AM
A single photo of a guy in the Archives of the Singverein, without any reference whatsoever. Looks like a mystery novel. :D
Well, we have the years. And he may have conducted the Singverein -- I'd have assumed so, until I couldn't find this conductor amid my search of those conductors listed on their website. (I might have failed to check one or two, of course... it he may not have been listed.) But yes, apparently there aren't any other references. He's holding a baton, though... that suggests legitimacy, at least. :-)
Like we Romanians say, this is like searching a needle in a cart full of hay. :D
A bit like Schmidt-Isserstedt, too, methinks.
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/1048015/20363366884.jpg) (https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78611954_10157012498657989_4153523487387942912_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=rIvGOWMeQN8AQnCDKemixsqLpIcPhCWK7n3rAu0d7rkisg3hPP3LhNwSg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3d73cbcec44d0f9f71743b9d282fe743&oe=5E41208D)
Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2019, 06:19:25 AM
Like we Romanians say, this is like searching a needle in a cart full of hay. :D
International: Needle in the haystack. Nadel im Heuhaufen. Maybe even the French have something like "Autant chercher une aiguille dans une botte de foin". Doesn't roll off the tongue as easily, though.
He looks a little bit like (old) Miklos Rozsa or Josef Vlach
(https://www.casopisharmonie.cz/images/casopis/2018/10/josef_vlach_2011_01.jpg)
Vlach
(http://jsebestyen.org/photos/uploads/rozsa/rozsa3.jpg)
Rozsa
maybe Czech, Romanian...?
The first person I thought of, and I don't know why, was Paumgartner.
And the pix I saw didn't look like that person on the photo in question. But here he sortof does.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyPVIbVvYK8w98qObZGC-v5HPsYUmSJesNcj4zZk2MPNkPBbam&s)
Berislav Klobucar?
Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2019, 06:03:58 AM
Must be a guy born around 1900.
This guy fits age-wise, but it doesn't really look like the conductor on the photograph - if it is him he is much younger and slimmer on the picture in the link:
https://www.discogs.com/fr/artist/470027-Ferdinand-Grossmann
Quote from: pjme on December 04, 2019, 06:23:17 AM
Rozsa
Miklos Rozsa might be a good guess. At least the eyebrows fits. :)
(https://images.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2009/207/6678159_124871576209.jpg)
Quote from: ritter on December 04, 2019, 06:27:32 AM
Berislav Klobucar?
He was 40 in 1964. The mystery guy looks much older.
Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2019, 06:31:01 AM
He was 40 in 1964. The mystery guy looks much older.
Too much partying? ;D
Moralt is a new idea.
He looked much younger only a few years prior to his death and the picture above...
but then the premature death may well have had the same cause as premature aging? The eyes/lips/mouth part looks quite a bit like him.
(https://www.operamusica.com/media/cache/photo_detail/upload/image/5a/fd/98/5afd98b17109f.jpg) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29354.0;attach=61243;image)
Moralt : unlikely. The eyes are very different.
It is very intriguing. I hope some info pops up at the Singverein....
Moralt has a different hairline although other photos of him do show a more centered, rounded hairstyle.
The mystery is solved!
It is an old Reinhold Schmid.
I surmised that he might be a possibility... since it was the only conductor of the Singverein in those relevant years, whom I could not rule out or get a good picture of.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 05, 2019, 04:13:20 AM
The mystery is solved!
It is an old Reinhold Schmid.
I surmised that he might be a possibility... since it was the only conductor of the Singverein in those relevant years, whom I could not rule out or get a good picture of.
There's no picture of him on Google. Go figure!
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 05, 2019, 04:13:20 AM
The mystery is solved!
It is an old Reinhold Schmid.
I surmised that he might be a possibility... since it was the only conductor of the Singverein in those relevant years, whom I could not rule out or get a good picture of.
How can you know for sure, if you don't have another picture of him?
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 05, 2019, 09:37:38 AM
How can you know for sure, if you don't have another picture of him?
They probably turned the photo on the other side and lo and behold! his autograph was there. ;D
Seriously now, good question.
Schmid conducted the Musikverein choristers in some Karajan high profile projects on DGG in the sixties, like the Mozart and Brahms requiems, the Haydn Creation, Beethoven Missa Solemnis and probably others. I see his name listed in each of these recordings in the Karajan Sacred & Choral Recordings booklet. No picture of him though, it's a Karajan only gallery. I imagine Jens had access to additional material from these sessions ?
One of the oldtimers of the Singverein recognized him, when my father-in-law (who on the board of the SV and on who's behalf I was trying to figure this out) showed the picture further around. It's just that all the photos on the net depict him as a youngster.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 05, 2019, 11:24:15 PM
all the photos on the net depict him as a youngster.
Where are those photos? I couldn't find any.
Quote from: Florestan on December 05, 2019, 11:27:53 PM
Where are those photos? I couldn't find any.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml/musik_S/Schmid_Reinhold.xml&tbnid=lXyf8iOJUFZ4UM&vet=1&docid=DVtAk7ArcRmN-M&w=279&h=384&q=reinhold+schmid+chordirektor&source=sh/x/im (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml/musik_S/Schmid_Reinhold.xml&tbnid=lXyf8iOJUFZ4UM&vet=1&docid=DVtAk7ArcRmN-M&w=279&h=384&q=reinhold+schmid+chordirektor&source=sh/x/im)
It's a photo associated with an encyclopedic entry of his - but when you go to the site, it's not making use of it.
(http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg) (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29354.0;attach=61243;image)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 05, 2019, 11:34:21 PM
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml/musik_S/Schmid_Reinhold.xml&tbnid=lXyf8iOJUFZ4UM&vet=1&docid=DVtAk7ArcRmN-M&w=279&h=384&q=reinhold+schmid+chordirektor&source=sh/x/im (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml/musik_S/Schmid_Reinhold.xml&tbnid=lXyf8iOJUFZ4UM&vet=1&docid=DVtAk7ArcRmN-M&w=279&h=384&q=reinhold+schmid+chordirektor&source=sh/x/im)
It's a photo associated with an encyclopedic entry of his - but when you go to the site, it's not making use of it.
(http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Bildarchiv//BA/902/B10002737T10002742.jpg)
Do you see even a remotely vague or vaguely remote resemblance between this guy and the one in the OP? I don't.
I mean, look at their noses. They couldn't be more different. I agree that ageing modifies the face, but to turn a long, pointed nose into a short, thick one is impossible even for Mr. Time itself.
Quote from: Florestan on December 06, 2019, 01:19:17 AM
Do you see even a remotely vague or vaguely remote resemblance between this guy and the one in the OP? I don't.
I mean, look at their noses. They couldn't be more different. I agree that ageing modifies the face, but to turn a long, pointed nose into a short, thick one is impossible even for Mr. Time itself.
His nose may have been broken at some point.
There are at least some similarities - first and foremost the shape and the relatively low position of the ears but also the eyes and their surroundings.
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 06, 2019, 02:25:34 AM
His nose may have been broken at some point.
There are at least some similarities - first and foremost the shape and the relatively low position of the ears but also the eyes and their surroundings.
I'll grant you the ears but I'm unconvinced by the eyes.
Quote from: Florestan on December 06, 2019, 02:31:29 AM
I'll grant you the ears but I'm unconvinced by the eyes.
Well, he's been positively identified. It's no longer a guessing-game.
It's now a game of: Funny, how people can look different, given different lighting, situations, angles, and 40 years having passed in between takes.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 06, 2019, 04:36:12 AM
Well, he's been positively identified. It's no longer a guessing-game.
It's now a game of: Funny, how people can look different, given different lighting, situations, angles, and 40 years having passed in between takes.
True. I must confess that for me the transformation is shocking. I wouldn't have guessed they are one and the same person.
The eyebrows are exactly the same.
To me, the nose looks the same once you take into account that the photos were taken at different angles and different distances from the subject.