GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Mandryka on August 10, 2013, 10:49:13 PM

Title: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2013, 10:49:13 PM
Please would you recommend some recordings for me?
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Sammy on August 11, 2013, 07:46:52 AM
I love this 2-cd set of organ works on the Motette label (performances on 6 different historical organs):


Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Mandryka on August 11, 2013, 11:07:04 AM
Thanks, I will try to hear it soon.
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Sammy on August 11, 2013, 11:45:21 AM
JPC has 16 audio samples.  I do caution that the samples can only give a little taste of the full flavor of these works.
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Mandryka on August 12, 2013, 01:44:45 AM
These are the disc which I found on spotify which got me interested in Cabezón

(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/92/42/38/6port518.jpg)

(http://bigpondmusic.com/images/AlbumCoverArt/197/XXL/Antonio-De-Cabezon-Glosados-Diferencias-Y-Tientos.jpg)
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: petrarch on August 13, 2013, 03:27:37 PM
I am quite fond of this one:



...and am eagerly waiting for this:

Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Que on August 13, 2013, 09:51:09 PM
The organ set on Motette that Sammy recommended is on my shopping list, as is the harpsichord set by Glen Wilson on Naxos.

Meanwhile I can recommend this (reissue - previously on Symphonia)



Stunning! :)

Q
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: (: premont :) on August 19, 2013, 10:23:03 AM
Antonio de Cabezón has not been that well served by recording artists. Other than a few pieces in collections by e.g. F. Chapelet and M. Torrent,  until a few months ago I only owned three exclusively Cabezón CDs, which are an organ CD (Valois) with Kimberly Marshall and the two CDs with ensemble arrangements by Savall (Virgin) and Ensemble Accentus (Naxos) respectively.  I haven´t purchased the three Cabezón CDs with Uriol, because they are rather expensive and not the least because I own another CD with Iberian organ music by Uriol, which is utterly boring. But a few months ago I acquired Astronio´s complete Obras de Música (Brilliant), Wilson´s three CDs (Naxos),  one harpsichord CD by Paola Erdas (Arcana) and one organ CD by Andrés Cea (Lindoro), and I have ordered but not yet received the three organ CDs by Uriol, on Don´s recommendation and the harpsichord CD by Baiano (Glossa) on the recommendation of  Que, and the ensemble CD by Doulce Memoire (Ricercare).

Listening to the Brilliant set with Astronio I am struck by the strictness and severity of the playing. It seems very monochrome, the predominant color being black. Astronio may have felt likewise, since he uses a variety of keyboard instruments obviously for variety, and  some of the pieces are arranged for small instrumental ensembles, but still the playing is very severe. The title of the work is Obras de Música para tecla, arpa y vihuela, but we hear neither harp nor vihuela, only keyboard instruments, winds and bowed strings. Wilsons three harpsichord CDs are played almost equally strict and severe, and seem even more so because of the use of only one harpsichord throughout.  Surely both Astronio and Wilson demonstrate that Cabezón was a great master of counterpoint and imitation, but there isn´t much more in their playing. Marshall´s and Cea´s CDs are much in the same league, competent but  rather strict and more reverential than severe. Paolo Erdas on the other hand is more free and adds more ornamentation, and even if I do not know, what Cabezón ´s performing style was like, Erda´s style makes more musical sense in my ears than the all too serious style of Astronio and Wilson. The ensemble CDs by Savall and Ensemble Accentus represent arrangements of keyboard music, and the general effect is much like ensemble arrangements of The Art of Fugue. From a superficial point of view the music is made more attractive and “charming” but its integrity is diminished. The sonically refined playing of Savall´s group is BTW captivating no matter which music they play, and the improvised and in my ears very stylish ornamentation and other additions by the Ensemble Accentus, particularly by the recorder player Michael Posch are very instructive. Except the CD by Paola Erdas I can not recommend the other completely without reservations. I have great expectations concerning the Baiano CD, as I think he has got lots of musical imagination (e,g, in his recordings of music by Frescobaldi, Froberger, Scarlatti).

Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Mandryka on August 19, 2013, 09:42:36 PM
I think the playing on the Ensemble Accentus  / Thomas Wimmer CD on Naxos is very attractive, not at all monochromatic and severe. I haven't had much luck appreciating harpsichordists play Canezón yet, except for the harpsichordist on that CD. So far it's my favourite Cabuzón disc, despite premont's worry about the musical integrity. I haven't heard Paola Erdas's CD yet, I know she's an interesting musician from her CD of D'Anglebert. I've also just started to listen to the Denis Raison Dadre CD that petrarch posted, I feel pretty positive about the harpsichord playing there too.

As far as solo keyboard works are concerned, I still await Don's recommended organ CD. I"m wondering, what (if any) are Cabezón's keyboard masterpieces. I know his variations were an  influence on important  writers for the keyboard. But did he himeself write a major work for the keyboard?

When I've done A/B comparisons between Glen Wilson and Enrico Baiano, my initial impression was that Wilson was more humane, Baiano more the virtuoso.
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: (: premont :) on August 20, 2013, 12:51:28 AM
I think the playing on the Ensemble Accentus  / Thomas Wimmer CD on Naxos is very attractive, not at all monochromatic and severe. I haven't had much luck appreciating harpsichordists play Canezón yet, except for the harpsichordist on that CD. So far it's my favourite Cabuzón disc, despite premont's worry about the musical integrity. I haven't heard Paola Erdas's CD yet, I know she's an interesting musician from her CD of D'Anglebert. I've also just started to listen to the Denis Raison Dadre CD that petrarch posted, I feel pretty positive about the harpsichord playing there too.

As far as solo keyboard works are concerned, I still await Don's recommended organ CD. I"m wondering, what (if any) are Cabezón's keyboard masterpieces. I know his variations were an  influence on important  writers for the keyboard. But did he himeself write a major work for the keyboard?

When I've done A/B comparisons between Glen Wilson and Enrico Baiano, my initial impression was that Wilson was more humane, Baiano more the virtuoso.

I have not written, that I find Ensemble Accentus´interpretation monochromatic or severe. These words apply first and foremost to Astronio and Wilson.

I have not yet listened to Baiano, the postman delivered the CD 10 min. ago, but anyway I do not understand, what you mean calling Wilsons interpretation humane, compared to Baiano or not. IMO it is imbued with inhumane rigor, reminding me of the age of the Inquisition.

The surviving works of Cabezón are almost all keyboard works, and to my knowledge no major work has survived.

PS: Thanks for correcting my "serene" to "severe", this was of course what I meant.  :)
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Mandryka on August 20, 2013, 01:58:05 AM
Yes, I knew you didn't think that Ensemble Accentus was monochromatic etc. Sorry for giving the wrong impression.

The two pieces I compared Baiano and Wilson in were Diferencias sobra la Pavana Italiana and Diferencias sobra le llano del Cavallero. I thought that Baiano starts off the Cavallero one really beautifully, when he presents the theme, but Wilson finds a touching poignancy in the middle of the piece that Baiano misses. I thought that Baiano was exciting in the Pavana Italiana, but Wilson more . . . humane.

Wilson's style is something which interests me here and in Byrd in fact. It's not obviously attractive, seductive. The harpsichord isn't sexy sounding or atmospherically recorded. He's not gentle and soothing. He doesn't wow you with virtuosity. He doesn't charm you by making the music sing. It's always serious and almost like a monument - he builds an imposing structure.

But recently, in just some of these Diferencias and also in some of the Byrd Fantasies, (mb 46 is an example) he's completely won me over by the emotions he expresses.

When you say that no major work has survived, do you mean that his real keyboard masterpieces are lost, that what we have are the relatively  minor works? I wonder if Sweelinck and Byrd, for example, wrote anything praising his keyboard writing.

Of course, ths could be just me. You never know how much your own mental state brings to the music. ;)
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: (: premont :) on August 20, 2013, 03:18:00 AM
The two pieces I compared Baiano and Wilson in were Diferencias sobra la Pavana Italiana and Diferencias sobra le llano del Cavallero. I thought that Baiano starts off the Cavallero one really beautifully, when he presents the theme, but Wilson finds a touching poignancy in the middle of the piece that Baiano misses. I thought that Baiano was exciting in the Pavana Italiana, but Wilson more . . . humane.

Wilson's style is something which interests me here and in Byrd in fact. It's not obviously attractive, seductive. The harpsichord isn't sexy sounding or atmospherically recorded. He's not gentle and soothing. He doesn't wow you with virtuosity. He doesn't charm you by making the music sing. It's always serious and almost like a monument - he builds an imposing structure.

But recently, in just some of these Diferencias and also in some of the Byrd Fantasies, (mb 46 is an example) he's completely won me over by the emotions he expresses.

Wilson convinces me more in Byrd, or is it rather so that Byrd´s music stands Wilson´s strict style better than Cabezón´s. I shall not hide, that I find Byrd´s music more appealing and accessible than Cabezón´s.
A propos Byrd mb 46, I recently listened to Bertrand Cuillers version (Alpha) and was completely overwhelmed by his profound expression.

Quote from: Mandryka
When you say that no major work has survived, do you mean that his real keyboard masterpieces are lost, that what we have are the relatively  minor works? I wonder if Sweelinck and Byrd, for example, wrote anything praising his keyboard writing.

Considering what has survived, I am convinced, that major works also would have survived, so it is tempting to think, that he did not write any major works.

Quote from: Mandryka
Of course, this could be just me. You never know how much your own mental state brings to the music. ;)

Certainly. My mental state is most often very balanced, maybe even too much so.
Title: Re: Antonio de Cabezón
Post by: Mandryka on August 20, 2013, 06:21:12 AM
Yes, I like Cuiller's Byrd. He's giving a concert in Paris soon and I can't make up my mind whether to go. On the positive side, he's playing F Couperin, and I like the music. On the negative side it's acompanied by a magic lantern  show.

What I'm worried about is that these projections will be sentimental.

http://www.citedelamusique.fr/francais/evenement.aspx?id=13264

Re the wonderful MB 46, I find myself liking Berben's performance on an organ more and more, and Belder - Belder's Fitzwilliam Virginal Book CDs are great fun I think.

Re Cabezón, maybe he's a great composer who wrote no great music  :)
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 04, 2015, 11:03:42 AM
Don's favourite Cabézon CD has become a real favourite of mine too, despite an initial negative reaction, I find that if you turn the volume down the music ceases to be reminiscent of The Spanish Inquisition. On the  contrary - the music is magically transformed into something rapt and tender even. Are these quiet organs that he plays?  I suppose it depends where you sit in the church.

The other Spanish CD I love is Foccroulle's Arauxo. But the place where I continue to draw a blank is with the Spanish Bach - Cabanilles. Maybe he gets his high reputation from his vocal music, which I've not explored. Any suggestions for good keyboard recordings, preferably organ.
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on January 04, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
Don's favourite Cabézon CD has become a real favourite of mine too, despite an initial negative reaction, I find that if you turn the volume down the music ceases to be reminiscent of The Spanish Inquisition. On the  contrary - the music is magically transformed into something rapt and tender even. Are these quiet organs that he plays?  I suppose it depends where you sit in the church.

It was the seriousness of Astronio which associated me to the Spanish Inquisition, not the Cabezon/Uriol twofer, which I had not heard at that time. Afterwards I got it and well, warmer and more human than Astronios interpretations.

Quote from: Mandryka
The other Spanish CD I love is Foccroulle's Arauxo. But the place where I continue to draw a blank is with the Spanish Bach - Cabanilles. Maybe he gets his high reputation from his vocal music, which I've not explored. Any suggestions for good keyboard recordings, preferably organ.

I know only a few discs containing exclusively works by Cabanilles.

Monserrat Torrent LP, ca 1965 
may be downloaded: http://www.amazon.fr/Cabanilles-Bataille-autres-Montserrat-Torrent/dp/B003MOQEKG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420403514&sr=8-2&keywords=cabanilles+torrent
very fine

Sandro Müller:  https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke-Vol-4/hnum/7986408 
pedestrian, bores me

Jan Willem Jansen:  https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke/hnum/1552157
middle of the road, good without being exceptional

Leon Berben:  https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Juan-Bautista-Cabanilles-1644-1712-Orgelwerke/hnum/9183958
missed opportunity, fine playing but impossible acoustics

John Butt:  http://www.amazon.fr/Cabanilles-Obras-Organo-John-Butt/dp/B00B9HYM8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420402948&sr=8-1&keywords=john+butt+cabanilles
interpretation somewhat unexciting, not as boring as Müller´s CD though

Christina Garcia Banegas: http://www.amazon.fr/Organo-historico-espa%C3%B1ol-cdaudivis-folletoint/dp/B003Z75596/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420403371&sr=8-1&keywords=cabanilles+banegas
second only to Torrent´s LP


The rest of the organ works of Cabanilles, of which I own  recordings, are scattered in different collections (Chapelet, Gnann e.g.)

Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
Thanks for doing that Premont, of the ones you listed I'd heard Butt, but I wasn't ever grabbed by the music. Montserrat Torrent's CD was easy to find as download (from google play - better quality and cheaper than amazon.) My feeling so far is that she's made a choice of quite bravura music which she plays with great brio.
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: HIPster on January 05, 2015, 05:48:36 PM
Just ordered ~


What do you think of it, Petrarch?

Looking into Ensemble Accentus's Naxos recording as well in the future.

Nice looking recommendations in this thread - thanks Mandryka.   ;)
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: HIPster on January 06, 2015, 08:54:57 AM
Okay, this thread is very inspiring! ;D

Just ordered the Ensemble Accentus, Naxos release:


Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 06, 2015, 09:02:03 AM
Okay, this thread is very inspiring! ;D

Just ordered the Ensemble Accentus, Naxos release:



You will find that CD ravishing I expect. Amongst other things, the harpsichord player (unnamed) is just absolutely fabulous.

Does anyone prefer Arauxo to Cabezón? I think I do, but it may be just that I'm particularly open to Foccroulle's style.
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on January 06, 2015, 12:41:52 PM
Thanks for doing that Premont, of the ones you listed I'd heard Butt, but I wasn't ever grabbed by the music. Montserrat Torrent's CD was easy to find as download (from google play - better quality and cheaper than amazon.) My feeling so far is that she's made a choice of quite bravura music which she plays with great brio.

My impression from what I have heard of Cabanilles´ organ music (the above mentioned recordings - I have not found him sufficiently interesting to acquire or to find some scores) is, that the bravura quality is the most prominent feature of this music, and taking this into consideration I find Torrent very satisfying.

My priority list of interest in these three Spanish organ composers is 1)Cabezon 2)Correa de Arauxo 3)Cabanilles
Title: Re: Keyboard music by Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on February 19, 2015, 11:31:45 AM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/10/35/5028421943510_600.jpg)

If you didn't know, and you were slightly tipsy, you could easily think that Veronique Musson-Gonneaud was playing a strange harpsichord. In fact she's a harpist. And I would say this is one of the essential Antonio Cabezon recordings for two reasons. One is that she really lets the music breath - Veronique's Cabezon wrote the most gentle, humane, poetic,  tranquil, reflective, introspective music imaginable. And second, she knows that the music is often contrapuntal in essense - no sense whatsoever of tune + accompaniment in the background. All voices equal, all voices mutually responsive. So Cabezon is revealed to be part of Old Complexity - and that makes it stimulating to hear, not just relaxing and moving. Highly recommended.

I wonder if the keyboard-like style of playing harp is a feature of authentic early music harp playing.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 18, 2015, 08:42:52 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dTx6yziFL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

José Enrique Ayarra plays some tientos by Arauxo, on three baroque organs in Seville. What's striking is the separation of the voices by means of registrations, all recorded in a very unreverberant ambiance. There is a very marked separation of lower and upper voices. The consequence is that Arauxo is revealed to be a more interesting explorer of polyphony than I had previously realised. The performances are strong rhythmically too, and the combination of the rhythms and the colours is a winning one, a hypnotic one.

The recording is part of about 6 hours of Arauxo, the first "complete Arauxo edition." The sheer quantity of interestng music in Arauxo's legacy is another revelatory aspect of this release.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 18, 2015, 09:13:50 AM

What's striking is the separation of the voices by means of registrations, all recorded in a very unreverberant ambiance. There is a very marked separation of lower and upper voices.

Most historical Spanish organs have only one manual, but the stops (or the keyboard you may say) are divided, enabling you to use different stops for the upper and lower part of the manual. Much Spanish organ music presupposes this option, which results in the effect you describe.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 18, 2015, 09:36:05 AM
Most historical Spanish organs have only one manual, but the stops (or the keyboard you may say) are divided, enabling you to use different stops for the upper and lower part of the manual. Much Spanish organ music presupposes this option, which results in the effect you describe.

What is this called? I wonder if it was a feature of Arauxo's organs in Seville - I'm not sure if he used the ones in the recording.

Added later: I can see you say "divided registers" and that many of Arauxo's compositions were written in a form specially designed for it - tiento de medio registro. I have yet to learn how the Ayerra CDs are arranged, and how that relates to the arrangement of Facultad Organica. But I can tell you that the registrations are spectaular, the non homogeneous sound is revealing , the rhythms are infectious, and the dissonances are astonishing on the final two CDs. This is good music/performamces.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 18, 2015, 12:09:24 PM
What is this called? I wonder if it was a feature of Arauxo's organs in Seville - I'm not sure if he used the ones in the recording.

Added later: I can see you say "divided registers" and that many of Arauxo's compositions were written in a form specially designed for it - tiento de medio registro. I have yet to learn how the Ayerra CDs are arranged, and how that relates to the arrangement of Facultad Organica. But I can tell you that the registrations are spectaular, the non homogeneous sound is revealing , the rhythms are infectious, and the dissonances are astonishing on the final two CDs. This is good music/performamces.

Now I have ordered the only p.t. available CD from Ayerra´s Arauxo-set. And I look forward to hear it.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 18, 2015, 10:22:13 PM
Now I have ordered the only p.t. available CD from Ayerra´s Arauxo-set. And I look forward to hear it.

Which CD did you order? By the way, when I awoke I found Roland Götz's Arauxo CD had arrived in the mail.

Here's a doctoral thesis on Arauxo

http://ethesis.siba.fi/ethesis/files/nbnfife200805301490.pdf
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 19, 2015, 12:07:35 PM
Which CD did you order? By the way, when I awoke I found Roland Götz's Arauxo CD had arrived in the mail.

This one:

http://www.amazon.de/Organo-Historico-Iglesia-Salvador-Sevilla/dp/B000FS3FW2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426794975&sr=1-1&keywords=ayarra+arauxo

but I got it for 24 Euro´s.

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 25, 2015, 10:13:24 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)


Astronio's Cabezon, CD 3.


This consists of unutterably drab transcriptions of motets, sometimes made bearable barely by attractive viol and brass playing, and some workmanlike preludes to hymns, workmanlike though no doubt pioneering stuff in the day. And then, at the end, everything is saved by eight kirie preluludes which are altogether in a different league, masterful rich polyphonic music, sometimes quite minor-epic in scale, played with great intensity by all concerned.

I was coming to the view that Cabezon was a great composer who wrote no great music. But those Kyrie preludes are making me think that that judgement may be premature. The task is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 25, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)


Astronio's Cabezon, CD 2.

This CD opens with nine beautiful meditative duos and then goes downhill, with some monotonous and workmanlike music based on hymn tunes and a set of fauxbourdons which, though not unattractive, are too tame to sustain my interest for the duration. The longest, taken on strings and organ, is quite memorable though.

The heart of the disc is a sequence of motet transcriptions, all in the expected style of static imitative counterpoint. Some are pretty large, the largest (a motet by Jean Mouton) is played on brass, which is unforunately a timbre I don't like - too brassy. Astronio takes the same Mouton motet on organ, but the playing suffers from the usual Cabezon toughness, you feel more browbeaten rather than wooed. I can do without that. And oh, there's a long and uninteresting Josquin transcription taken on strings and organ.

Hats off to Cabezon for intuiting the potential of instrumental counterpoint, but maybe the music on this CD shows that he hasn't quite mastered it yet.

A CD then which I'm glad to know for the duos, and maybe when I'm in a better mood I'll get more from the fauxbourdons too.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 26, 2015, 11:17:53 AM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)

Astronio's Cabezon, CD 5

This one seems an unmitigated success.

The CD opens with a sequence of tientos, most of them stuffed with imaginative rhythmic variations, and one of them (6th tone) an enormous masterpiece with a great finale - it has to be a summit of not just Cabezon's work, but a summit of early music.

The tientos are then followed by two amazing motet transcriptions, and one of them --Josquin's Stabat Mater --  is every bit a masterpiece as the aforementioned 6th tiento. And the Josquin Inviolata transcription which follows isn't far behind.

At some point - why not tomorrow? - I'll listen to the originals and try to work out what Cabezon was doing in these transcriptions. I have an intuition that they're pretty imaginative.

The CD ends with canciones - less austere music maybe, but utterly charming nonetheless. Good to find some more music in this genre, to put alongside Frescobaldi's,instrumental canzoni.

High standard of performance IMO, and nice instruments. Astronio on organ in the big tiento and transcriptions has great momentum and his registrations are suitably simple and (in the case of the Stabat Mater) imaginative and exciting in the second part.  My only disappointment is that there's no harp or clavichord.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 27, 2015, 08:52:33 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)

Astronio's Cabezon, CD 4

I think one of the pieces here, the 1st tone tiento, is probably a masterpiece, with imaginative imitation and a sectional form like a Frescobaldi capriccio. It's given an alert performance by Astronio on organ.

Apart from that, there are some transcriptions of motets and some canciones. They all have a big tune in one voice and figuration in the other(s), the result is static and rather attractive.

And there are some other tientos, including quite a memorable one based on a song (called "qui lo dira") played on a harpsichord. But in all these other tientos I feel a bit trapped by the form.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2015, 07:31:50 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)

Astronio's Cabezon CD 1

This is a disc of two halves, motet transcriptions and differencias.

The transcriptions are Vogon poetry. They are some of the most boring, sprawling, formless, meaningless, drab, sombre, monochrome music I've ever heard, played with one exception on a heavy sounding old meantone tuned organ. This music calls to mind Morton Feldman's For Samuel Beckett. The best of the bunch is an Ave Maria by Josquin, but really, I'm scraping the barrel for something positive to say.

The differencias on harpsichord are livelier and lighter, but I  thought that Astronio's harpsichord playing is sober and uninvolving. If these are interesting and inspired and imaginative and exciting sets of variations then please let me know, because they didn't sound it to me. The pick of the bunch is "la dama de demanda"

And then, we're plunged back into The World of The Organ for an epic set of variations - "Quien ti me enojó Isabel" Astronio plays it rather rigorously, and then loosens up slightly at the end to create a nice feeling of ecstatcy. It's OK.

The final piece, a harpsichord redition of Duuinsela, which has pretty moments, a central passage,  but, really, no, enough's enough.

I wonder how many people bought the box, played CD 1 first, and never dared to go further.


Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on November 21, 2015, 09:28:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dTx6yziFL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

i've been enjoying José Enrique Ayarra plays two very substantial contrapuntal pieces by Arauxo on the first CD on this set - Tiento 62 and a sort of variations form piece based on what I guess was a pop tune called "Dexaldros mi madre." The latter is particularly impressive: dissonant, not at all cookie-tourist-Spanish-style, and a real sustained sense of being off the rails, transcending the form. The shorter pieces are thoroughly enjoyable and very varied. Once or twice I thought I heard music that sounded almost Dutch even (Tiento MR 51)! I'm starting to think that I enjoy Arauxo more than Cabezón. At least I think that Arauxo is more consistently interesting and his high points are more exciting than Cabezón's.

There are six CDs in the set. I may have to work my through them all carefully soon, I bet there are some real gems tucked away there.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on November 22, 2015, 06:07:54 AM
(http://s26.postimg.org/6p0d0fpgp/back2_2.jpg)

José Enrique Ayarra plays Arauxo on two organs in Seville, one at the cathedral and one in Osuna College Church. It's the second organ which is the real star of the show for me, the puppy on the right in this here image:

(http://s26.postimg.org/4yhbyy7xl/0074_75.jpg)

As you would expect, it's high and acid and full of dissonance and personality. And what's more Ayarra uses it for what sounds to me like a major masterpiece, a piece of music with a real distinctive character, Tiento 60 " de baxon de treinta y dos numeros al compas de segundo tono", whatever that means.

The title has made me think, probably quite unfairly, of somethink that Ochs says to butter up the Marschallin in Rosenkavalier "Da gibt's keine Flausen, keine Etikette, keine spanische Tuerei!"

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: The new erato on November 22, 2015, 10:24:51 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81AtlbG-P%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)

Astronio's Cabezon CD 1

This is a disc of two halves, motet transcriptions and differencias.

The transcriptions are Vogon poetry. They are some of the most boring, sprawling, formless, meaningless, drab, sombre, monochrome music I've ever heard, played with one exception on a heavy sounding old meantone tuned organ. This music calls to mind Morton Feldman's For Samuel Beckett. The best of the bunch is an Ave Maria by Josquin, but really, I'm scraping the barrel for something positive to say.

The differencias on harpsichord are livelier and lighter, but I  thought that Astronio's harpsichord playing is sober and uninvolving. If these are interesting and inspired and imaginative and exciting sets of variations then please let me know, because they didn't sound it to me. The pick of the bunch is "la dama de demanda"

And then, we're plunged back into The World of The Organ for an epic set of variations - "Quien ti me enojó Isabel" Astronio plays it rather rigorously, and then loosens up slightly at the end to create a nice feeling of ecstatcy. It's OK.

The final piece, a harpsichord redition of Duuinsela, which has pretty moments, a central passage,  but, really, no, enough's enough.

I wonder how many people bought the box, played CD 1 first, and never dared to go further.
Me.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on November 29, 2015, 08:19:51 AM
(http://s26.postimg.org/43hxaftt5/back2.jpg)

Jose Enrique Ayarra plays Arauxo at San Salvador church in Seville, being Part II CD 2 of his complete Correa.

The organ at San Salvador is characterful, colourful and well balanced. It has a split keyboard (medio registro) and a baxon (bassoon) stop.

Musically many of the pieces here have the familiar structure of  imitation and variation of a simple idea in several voices, leading to an ecstatic climax which gives the impression of transcending the previously established pattern. Tension builds by means of rhythm and tempo, and by the way the voices respond to each other. Some of the pieces are really quite epic and some are clearly explorations of dissonances.  I don't think that there's anything new here in terms of form, but I would say that they have a distinctive Arauxo stamp (which I can't explain), and that they are very high quality. At least as interesting as Sweelinck - if Cabanilles is the Spanish Bach, Arauxo is the Spanish Sweelinck.

High points were the epic and very dissonant Tiento 12th tone (xii); Discurso LV with it's  striking registrations using baxon; the Siguense media registro,  7th tone, this time no baxon  but just a really masterful example of the genre which I enjoyed tremendously. On the whole I thought the first half of the CD was more interesting than the second, but really the whole thing is outstanding. Don't forget we're dealing with a complete works here, not everything can be a masterpiece.

Ayarra is a great organist in the theatrical, rhetorical tradition - rhetorical in the informal sense of giving the feeling of building logically to major events, climaxes, like a discourse. You get a much more showy impression of Arauxo's music than you get from Foccroulle. He's is completely at home with the music, and what he does always sounds organic. I would love to hear Ayarro play Bruhns or Lubeck.

So there you are - organ, music, performance. Ayarro's is an important set of recordings I think, every home should have one.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 08, 2016, 11:30:14 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMjAw/z/enEAAOSwLVZVsh2h/$_35.JPG)

Louis Thiry and Patrick Bismuth play tientos by Correa Arauxo. What strange music, both mad and mystical, passionate, full of abandon, at times I thought of Sufi music.

Some of these pieces are really voix égales, totally independent and characterful voices in different sorts of dialogue. The timbres of the shoulder violin in particular are lovely, fabulous.

Is it destroying the integrity of the music, to divide it up for two instruments? The music was written for organs with medio registro, with all that that implies about the possibility for completely separating the voices with different registrations. The same is not true for Cabezon and Cabanilles, nevertheless I wish Thiry and Bismuth would play some of their music too.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on January 09, 2016, 03:40:49 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMjAw/z/enEAAOSwLVZVsh2h/$_35.JPG)
Louis Thiry and Patrick Bismuth play tientos by Correa Arauxo.

I have had this in my radar and have listened to some clips on JPC. Thiry is as always fascinating, what a wonderful set of Correa he might do on his own. The problem with this CD is the choice of string instruments as a partner, I think they blend badly with the organ in this kind of music, and Bismuth has an annoying tone with too much vibrato as well. A wind instrument had been more appropriate (cornetto/dulcian) blending better with the organ. I own a recording of Peraza´s Tiento played by Jeremy West on cornetto with organ, this is an "efficient" combination displaying some kind of equality between the instruments..
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 09, 2016, 03:49:05 AM
I have had this in my radar and have listened to some clips on JPC. Thiry is as always fascinating, what a wonderful set of Correa he might do on his own. The problem with this CD is the choice of string instruments as a partner, I think they blend badly with the organ in this kind of music, and Bismuth has an annoying tone with too much vibrato as well. A wind instrument had been more appropriate (cornetto/dulcian) blending better with the organ. I own a recording of Peraza´s Tiento played by Jeremy West on cornetto with organ, this is an "efficient" combination displaying some kind of equality between the instruments..

What I had noticed is that the organ doesn't seem to be as well recorded as the strings, and I'd put this down really to the recording quality or the reverberation.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on January 09, 2016, 04:08:03 AM
What I had noticed is that the organ doesn't seem to be as well recorded as the strings, and I'd put this down really to the recording quality or the reverberation.

Well, clips are clips, and I use them mainly to get an idea of the performing styles of the artists.
As to the sound in some low mp3 resolution I do not dare to judge. However on this CD the organ is recorded with close miking, and I hear the sound of it as very integrated and with some resonance adding to the "mystical" feeling of the music. The strings spoil that picture completely, and Bismuth even plays in another very different and romanticized style.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 10, 2016, 01:37:39 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IVVsR7iML.jpg)

I think this selection of music by Arauxo from Roland Götz is attractive. It has (I suggest) a distinctive quality. It is brilliant for showing the poised and dignified aspect of Correa's music. Maybe inevitably, it does so at the expense of mysticism, and of disturbing intensity.

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on February 19, 2016, 05:52:51 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61IYWy-pxRL._SY300_.jpg)

This recording is a musical oxymoron.

Odile Bailleux achieves something which I hear rarely and which I value a lot.  It is both dramatic, mainly through astonishing and extreme contrasts of colour and it is serene and majestic. She achieves the latter partly through her tempos and phrasing, which succeed in making the gestures sound confident. But those words "majestic", "serene", "confident" don't do it justice, because they're all words you could use to describe the slightly pompous Bach recordings  of Albert Schweitzer. What Odile Bailleux expresses which elevates this recording is mysticism.

It made me think of Walcha's idea, from the period of his final Bach recordings,  that baroque music is "still, calm and concentrated", like Gregorian chant.

She's helped by her organ, Almonacid de la Sierra (1773, Sanchez), which is grand, colourful and somehow warm and humane. The recording is glorious, you feel you're there! It had me strapped to my seat for the whole hour or more.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 24, 2016, 07:48:14 PM
(http://www.resmusica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/lorris_colcomb_hortus.jpg)

Damien Colcomb at Lorriel. A particularly fine organ, an interesting programme of relatively rare music played with style. I particularly enjoyed the selections by Rodrigues Coelho, Abraham van den Kerchoven and Peter Cornet. The music of Spanish Netherlands could be a very rewarding area to explore. 

http://www.orgues-koenig.com/lorris-en-gatinais/
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on July 03, 2016, 12:12:09 AM
(https://www.audite.de/media/file/00/26/22/gallery_image_size-big.97713-600.jpg)

A couple of rare pieces on this disc by Martin Neu at the newly restored 1735 Corchado organ of the San Hipólito Church in Córdoba, including a Kyrie by Rodrigues Cuelho played in alternatim.

Most of the the disc is given over to everyone's favourite spaniard - Correa!. It's a good selection, in the sense of representative one, because you get an early glossa, a couple of tientos and a batalla. Neu is particularly impressive in the tiento for medió registro. where finds just the right feeling of transcendent flamboyance. This may just reflect my own preference for this aspect of Arauxo's output. And listening to this recording made me think that there's more diversity in his music than I had previously recognised. The Batalla is a great piece for showing off the organ and speakers, maybe not so special from the poetic point of view.

The CD opens with a very baroque piece Diego Xaraba, Neu did not make me think that this is my sort of music.

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on July 03, 2016, 01:24:29 AM
(https://www.audite.de/media/file/00/26/22/gallery_image_size-big.97713-600.jpg)

This is of course on my wishlist. But from now on I am not going to make new acquisitions until I have established myself in my new place, which may take some time.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on July 17, 2016, 01:22:43 AM
This is nice,

http://juandelarubia.com/en/portfolio-items/hauslaib-claviorgan/

Quote
Hauslaib Claviorgan

Museu de la Música has restored and recovered an exceptional instrument, a claviorgan, for the music world. Its singular sound synchronizes the organ’s sonority with that of the harpsichord or spinet. It is displayed in the Museum’s permanent collection. Made at the organ workshop of Lorenz Hauslaib in Nuremberg, this claviorgan is a magnificent example of a Renaissance musical instrument which has reached our days without alterations of its original timbre, arrangement and tuning.

Music: Gallarda milanesa, Antonio de Cabezón.
Juan de la Rubia, claviorgan
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on July 31, 2016, 01:24:21 AM
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/8911aa0335d9ac18ca77690e72bef574/2300228.jpg)

My relationship with this recording has swung from hate (I just deleted a shameful post where I described it as "boots on the clavichord") to love. The reason I've learned to love it has precisely to do with that extremely lute-like clavichord that he's using: there's such an extraordinary contrast between the primitiveness and saturatedness of the timbre, and the expressiveness of Clemencic's music making.

 I guess I have moved from not being able to hear the expressiveness (too repelled by the instrument, the density of the counterpoint), to being irritated by the tension between the style of play and the instrument, to my current state of relishing the contrast.

No one I have heard,no one, beats Clemencic's way of expressing the emotional content of Cabezon's music. Each gesture is alive and meaningful. And he's doing it on an instrument which, while not exactly sounding like a bunch of elastic bands twanging, is a bit in that vein of things.

This is a wonderful CD, and is probably so rich as to be inexhaustible.  I used to think that Cabezon was a great composer who wrote no great music. Clemencic makes me revise that opinion.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2016, 11:34:25 AM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hxagJRJlbrk/VssVFqRq6gI/AAAAAAAAGmc/SVzWszC2rVQ/s640/orgue-nouveau-monde-k617235-back.jpg)

There are some amazing things on this disc by Norberto Broggini, often by composers completely new to me. Estacio  Lacerna, for example, contributes a very original tiento, and the contribution by Jerônimo Peraza is well made and inspired. The most substantial pieces are by Arauxo, played fervently. The instrument is very special.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 28, 2016, 07:44:25 AM
My impression from what I have heard of Cabanilles´ organ music (the above mentioned recordings - I have not found him sufficiently interesting to acquire or to find some scores) is, that the bravura quality is the most prominent feature of this music, and taking this into consideration I find Torrent very satisfying.

My priority list of interest in these three Spanish organ composers is 1)Cabezon 2)Correa de Arauxo 3)Cabanilles


(http://www.sonoluminus.com/images/Product/medium/263.jpg)

I stumbled across this today, and it has made me think that I've underestimated Cabanilles. I hear a really distinctive organist in Jan Willem Jansen, special for his ability to project something spiritual even in this music. And to project a sense of wonder, discovery . If Jansen played Bruhns or Pachelbel or Buxtehude, I bet it would be quite a thing.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 28, 2016, 08:39:53 AM

If Jansen played Bruhns or Pachelbel or Buxtehude, I bet it would be quite a thing.

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/512j6g39jbL._SS500.jpg)

Just found it. Initial impressions are not so positive, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on January 10, 2017, 01:35:05 PM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/15/39/5060113443915_600.jpg)

Timothy Roberts presents Cabanilles as a brash and emotionally limited bravura composer, on a historic meantime tuned organ (Sant Jaume, Valencia, 1724), played with brassy registrations. Unatmospheric recorded sound. 


http://www.grenzing.com/organosshow.cfm?id=204&ip=204204
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on January 11, 2017, 11:31:16 AM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/15/39/5060113443915_600.jpg)

Timothy Roberts presents Cabanilles as a brash and emotionally limited bravura composer, on a historic meantime tuned organ (Sant Jaume, Valencia, 1724), played with brassy registrations. Unatmospheric recorded sound. 

This recording was a great disappointment to me. Straightforward and unsophisticated playing, made worse by too close miking, which results in an uncomfortable straight up in your head impression and insufficient feeling of the acoustics of the venue..
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 12, 2017, 04:17:23 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/cdcb05908cc47f85773075decf3dc274865faa51)

http://discmedi.com/es/disco/7840/antonio-de-cabeznn/entre-lo-sagrado-y-lo-mundano-ignacio-ribas-talnons--orgue-nrgano

Ignacio Ribas Talens' style of music making is probably too careful, too scholarly, too stiff, too controlled. But it is not tough and aggressive, on the contrary, he makes the the music appear sweet and poetic. What's more, these Andorra organs are the bees knees for Cabezon because of the colours. For once it's clear that Cabezon really wrote obras de música para tecla arpa y vihuela. Registrations are very well chosen to offer enough contrast in the voices to make the polyphony clear, without making one voice dominate the rest.

It had me strapped to my seat.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 12, 2017, 06:56:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBAv44aXgAErqfb.jpg)

Very impressed by this release, played on a small late 16th century Claviorganum entirely at octave pitch and above.

There's something here that reminds me of Leonhardt's Alpenlander recordings, with the intimacy of the small instrument and crispness that I've been looking for in Cabezon recordings - just like in the recording of Uriol or Erdas, both favorites.
I guess that this clean, lyrical quality is what makes Cabezon sound different from Sweelinck, although they were both great modal composers churning out variations and toccatas (or Tientos). Of course, Sweelinck's more on the meditative, perhaps plodding side who preferred long, carefully considered works to little bonbons. Arauxo's in the middle.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 12, 2017, 06:57:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IVVsR7iML.jpg)

I think this selection of music by Arauxo from Roland Götz is attractive. It has (I suggest) a distinctive quality. It is brilliant for showing the poised and dignified aspect of Correa's music. Maybe inevitably, it does so at the expense of mysticism, and of disturbing intensity.

Götz seems to have an interesting catalogue that is extremely hard to get; do you know any other discs well?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 12, 2017, 07:35:23 AM
Götz seems to have an interesting catalogue that is extremely hard to get; do you know any other discs well?

I bought quite a few CDs, you could get them easily on Amazon, or direct from here

http://studio-xvii-augsburg.de/cds/

By the way, if anyone can find a track list for his Byrd CD, would they let me know, I ripped it, got rid of the CD and booklet, before tagging the files.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 12, 2017, 07:44:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBAv44aXgAErqfb.jpg)

Very impressed by this release, played on a small late 16th century Claviorganum entirely at octave pitch and above.

There's something here that reminds me of Leonhardt's Alpenlander recordings, with the intimacy of the small instrument and crispness that I've been looking for in Cabezon recordings - just like in the recording of Uriol or Erdas, both favorites.
I guess that this clean, lyrical quality is what makes Cabezon sound different from Sweelinck, although they were both great modal composers churning out variations and toccatas (or Tientos). Of course, Sweelinck's more on the meditative, perhaps plodding side who preferred long, carefully considered works to little bonbons. Arauxo's in the middle.

Arauxo seems the most  the most mystical of the three. Sweelinck seemed to write the most interesting counterpoint.

You really like a certain type of organ. I bet you will like this thing, let me know if you can't find it and I'll upload it.

(http://s26.postimg.org/6p0d0fpgp/back2_2.jpg)

José Enrique Ayarra plays Arauxo on two organs in Seville, one at the cathedral and one in Osuna College Church. It's the second organ which is the real star of the show for me, the puppy on the right in this here image:

(http://s26.postimg.org/4yhbyy7xl/0074_75.jpg)

As you would expect, it's high and acid and full of dissonance and personality. And what's more Ayarra uses it for what sounds to me like a major masterpiece, a piece of music with a real distinctive character, Tiento 60 " de baxon de treinta y dos numeros al compas de segundo tono", whatever that means.

The title has made me think, probably quite unfairly, of somethink that Ochs says to butter up the Marschallin in Rosenkavalier "Da gibt's keine Flausen, keine Etikette, keine spanische Tuerei!"
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 12, 2017, 01:47:45 PM
By the way, if anyone can find a track list for his Byrd CD, would they let me know, I ripped it, got rid of the CD and booklet, before tagging the files.

I own the CD. Will send you the tracklist to morrow.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on June 15, 2017, 07:57:20 AM
How do y'all think of this one?
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DP2eMRX-kik/VrRb9dltB_I/AAAAAAAAGjg/byG2phOckEUP56FKg5Q5_1tIHK3P35hIACKgB/s1600/3383510002359.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 15, 2017, 09:09:30 AM
How do y'all think of this one?
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DP2eMRX-kik/VrRb9dltB_I/AAAAAAAAGjg/byG2phOckEUP56FKg5Q5_1tIHK3P35hIACKgB/s1600/3383510002359.jpg)

Mandryka wrote about it above (reply 47 of this thread). I tend to agree with him. The used instrument is particularly interesting, the repertoire is interesting and the playing engaged. Very recommendable.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on July 11, 2017, 06:40:10 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/cdcb05908cc47f85773075decf3dc274865faa51)

http://discmedi.com/es/disco/7840/antonio-de-cabeznn/entre-lo-sagrado-y-lo-mundano-ignacio-ribas-talnons--orgue-nrgano

Ignacio Ribas Talens' style of music making is probably too careful, too scholarly, too stiff, too controlled. But it is not tough and aggressive, on the contrary, he makes the the music appear sweet and poetic. What's more, these Andorra organs are the bees knees for Cabezon because of the colours. For once it's clear that Cabezon really wrote obras de música para tecla arpa y vihuela. Registrations are very well chosen to offer enough contrast in the voices to make the polyphony clear, without making one voice dominate the rest.

It had me strapped to my seat.

Returning to this has me in complete agreement, apart from the suggestion that he's too scholarly, I don't know why I may have thought that before. This is a really revealing approach to Cabezon and a really attractive one. 
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 09:33:11 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6eDDzWAEbLc/TJ0n10jN7WI/AAAAAAAAACw/9iQ8vG9ss-Q/s1600/caratula+cd+cabezon.jpg)

I'd say it's well worth hearing these Cabezon performances by Anne Landa, which are marked by a combination of seriousness, lyricism, introspection and tenderness. Not the slightest whiff of the Spanish Inquisition.  This is the sort of CD to hear late at night by candlelight . . .
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on September 20, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
(https://www.propermusic.com/cache/images/6/1/6/6160dc63b9fb145f723de5e8610dff4b.jpg)

Nadine Balbeisi and Fernando Marín play music by Cabezon, Henestrosa, Ortiz, D'Upsala and many others who I've never come across before. All I can say is that it is gentle, introspective, beautiful and it opens up a new perspective on what early modern Spanish music can sound like. Worth hearing this one, for sure.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on December 08, 2017, 11:42:37 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/89/d3/9c/89d39cdad2827a20f5f8b681b1b06bcb.jpg)


If there's one thing I can't stand, it's when a harpsichord player uses chords to pound out the pulse. Glen Wilson has often a penchant for this type of playing, and it spoils this disc of Cabezon glosas for me. 

(Compare the rudeness of Wilson with the finesse of Clemencic, admittedly on different instruments but I can't believe there's not a less indelicate of way of interpreting Cabezon on harpsichord.) 
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on December 08, 2017, 11:57:27 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6eDDzWAEbLc/TJ0n10jN7WI/AAAAAAAAACw/9iQ8vG9ss-Q/s1600/caratula+cd+cabezon.jpg)

I'd say it's well worth hearing these Cabezon performances by Anne Landa, which are marked by a combination of seriousness, lyricism, introspection and tenderness. Not the slightest whiff of the Spanish Inquisition.  This is the sort of CD to hear late at night by candlelight . . .

Requoting just to note that this recording gets better and better with repeated listening. Well worth hearing, and not just by candlelight. Much better sound and experience losslessly rather than on Spotify.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on February 05, 2018, 02:22:21 AM
(http://s26.postimg.org/6p0d0fpgp/back2_2.jpg)

José Enrique Ayarra plays Arauxo on two organs in Seville, one at the cathedral and one in Osuna College Church. It's the second organ which is the real star of the show for me, the puppy on the right in this here image:

(http://s26.postimg.org/4yhbyy7xl/0074_75.jpg)

As you would expect, it's high and acid and full of dissonance and personality. And what's more Ayarra uses it for what sounds to me like a major masterpiece, a piece of music with a real distinctive character, Tiento 60 " de baxon de treinta y dos numeros al compas de segundo tono", whatever that means.

The title has made me think, probably quite unfairly, of somethink that Ochs says to butter up the Marschallin in Rosenkavalier "Da gibt's keine Flausen, keine Etikette, keine spanische Tuerei!"

Looking through a new edition of the facultad organica at a library, I noticed that Arauxo comments that this piece is intended to be played on a "Realejo" (Regal, or probably by extension small chamber organ) rather than a grand organ because the heavier touch and greater keydepth of a big organ might present difficulties for playing the 32 notes.

What do people make of Bates' recording of Arauxo?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on February 05, 2018, 04:53:12 AM

What do people make of Bates' recording of Arauxo?

Too much swagger and not enough mysticism for me. Organs a bit disappointing compared with Ayaro who remains by top choice for a big set.

I just listened to the two of them in that Tiento LX, and there's a thing that I didn't notice before, to do with touch. Ayaro varies his touch much more, creating lots of interesting effects, Bates less so.

I also listened to the Las Vacas variations which follow Bates's Tiento LX and feel the same way I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2018, 10:43:12 AM
(http://www.vihueladearco.com/uploads/2/5/2/0/2520686/the-vihuela-de-arco-cover-web_orig.jpg)

One very striking thing about this recording of music by Ortiz, Cabezon and Ganassi by Fernando Marín is the sound of the bow on the string, beautifully captured, it makes listening a visceral, sensual pleasure. I'm not a great fan of Ortiz, so I won't comment, but I will say that Cabezon's the star, and it's a revelation to hear him played on a viol because suddenly the music becomes poetic - I mean fluid and humanely expressive rather than tough and angular and dry and bombastic.

Fernando Marín is a musician I will be following, I knew before a wonderful recording of Spanish  music for voice and viol, rapt and almost erotic with Nadine Balbeisi, who has the sort of voice I like.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Que on May 03, 2018, 12:56:04 PM
New!


Q
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 03, 2018, 02:55:19 PM
New!


Q


Probably mandatory I suppose. Played on the oldest playable organ in Spain.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8438811--correa-de-arauxo-organ-music
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Que on May 03, 2018, 10:20:17 PM

Probably mandatory I suppose. Played on the oldest playable organ in Spain.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8438811--correa-de-arauxo-organ-music

And I expect Francesco Cera to do well....  :)

Q
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 03, 2018, 11:15:02 PM

Played on the oldest playable organ in Spain.



And as far as I can see there is no other recording of the organ at Santa Maria church of Garrovillas de Alconétar. It sounds like the way an organ should sound in Arauxo!

And I expect Francesco Cera to do well....  :)

Q


Cera sounds as though he's enjoying himself to me, a mature and thought-through performance, warm and rich. I hope he can find a spirit of abandon and adventure in the music, and find an essence of each piece -- make each piece sound distinct. I think these have been the weaknesses in some of the other recordings I've heard from Cera.


https://www.youtube.com/v/jqK5gbmI9BM
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 04, 2018, 09:37:52 AM
And as far as I can see there is no other recording of the organ at Santa Maria church of Garrovillas de Alconétar. It sounds like the way an organ should sound in Arauxo!


Cera sounds as though he's enjoying himself to me, a mature and thought-through performance, warm and rich. I hope he can find a spirit of abandon and adventure in the music, and find an essence of each piece -- make each piece sound distinct. I think these have been the weaknesses in some of the other recordings I've heard from Cera.


https://www.youtube.com/v/jqK5gbmI9BM

Beautiful! I'm excited for it too. Never heard that organ before either...

Although I'm sure there are older organs in Spain
(https://jordicarrio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/IMG_8993-Editar.jpg)
Calatayud, early 15th century, only a few original inner pipes and the case remains but still old

(http://www.patrimonioculturaldearagon.es/image/image_gallery?uuid=8a730765-291a-4a66-a47f-a540cd27af9b&groupId=10157&t=1413876765177)
Daroca, Pascual de Mallén 1488 (My favorite Cabezon CD is recorded here!)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Zaragoza_-_La_Seo_29.JPG)
Zaragoza, Johan Ximénez Garcés 1444

But I guess these have been modified more over time
Sorry, just couldn't resist posting pictures of these beautiful Gothic organs!
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 04, 2018, 09:48:35 AM

(http://www.patrimonioculturaldearagon.es/image/image_gallery?uuid=8a730765-291a-4a66-a47f-a540cd27af9b&groupId=10157&t=1413876765177)
Daroca, Pascual de Mallén 1488 (My favorite Cabezon CD is recorded here!)



Paulino Ortiz de Jocano?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 04, 2018, 10:48:39 AM
Paulino Ortiz de Jocano?

 Paulino ORTIZ DE JOCANO
 
• Colección de Música Antigua Española /8 •
A. de Cabezon : Verso y Kyries del cuarto tono; Diferencias sobre ”El canto del cavallero”; Diferencias sobre ”La Gallarda Milanesa”; Discante sobre La Pavana Italiana; D'ou vient cela; Tiento VIII del Octavo Tono; Fabordon del Cuarto Tono; Tiento III del Primer Tono; Tiento V del Segundo Tono; Tiento VII del Cuarto Tono; Tiento X del Primer Tono; Tiento IX del Quinto Tono
- Covarrubias, Daroca
- Disque Hispavox-Erato, 1968

Only LP it seems.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 04, 2018, 12:01:38 PM
Paulino ORTIZ DE JOCANO
 
• Colección de Música Antigua Española /8 •
A. de Cabezon : Verso y Kyries del cuarto tono; Diferencias sobre ”El canto del cavallero”; Diferencias sobre ”La Gallarda Milanesa”; Discante sobre La Pavana Italiana; D'ou vient cela; Tiento VIII del Octavo Tono; Fabordon del Cuarto Tono; Tiento III del Primer Tono; Tiento V del Segundo Tono; Tiento VII del Cuarto Tono; Tiento X del Primer Tono; Tiento IX del Quinto Tono
- Covarrubias, Daroca
- Disque Hispavox-Erato, 1968

Only LP it seems.

I have that on LP; it's excellent (although I will have to pull it out and hear it more.)
Here's part of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGkdq39MwX8

But I was thinking of this:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fPcVa7zsL.jpg)

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 05, 2018, 04:22:32 AM
Ha, that one!

If anyone wants the whole of  Paulino ORTIZ DE JOCANO's transferred then they can PM me.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 05, 2018, 06:19:50 AM

But I was thinking of this:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fPcVa7zsL.jpg)

I had this in the radar for some time, but missed the chance in time.

What do you think of Uriol's other Cabexon CDs:

https://www.amazon.de/Antonio-Cabezon-J-l-Gonzales-Uriol/dp/B000059Q7V/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525533465&sr=1-2&keywords=uriol
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2018, 11:50:22 AM
I had this in the radar for some time, but missed the chance in time.

What do you think of Uriol's other Cabexon CDs:

https://www.amazon.de/Antonio-Cabezon-J-l-Gonzales-Uriol/dp/B000059Q7V/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1525533465&sr=1-2&keywords=uriol

I just looked around, I didn't know the Cabezon CD I mentioned is effectively out of print (not counting MP3, other lossy formats on itunes)! I do have it lossless. I think the organ sound is very crisp and attractive, so it works well with the playing.
Sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juI3JFgcYVM

As for the one you mentioned, I'm interested in it but I think it's OOP (as evidenced by the high prices charged). But it has a wider range of organs etc., seems very interesting.
I was less impressed by the other recordings of Uriol, though. But something about the Daroca organ just works well with him.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 05, 2018, 12:11:52 PM

As for the one you mentioned, I'm interested in it but I think it's OOP (as evidenced by the high prices charged). But it has a wider range of organs etc., seems very interesting.
I was less impressed by the other recordings of Uriol, though. But something about the Daroca organ just works well with him.

It can be had a bit cheaper here, if you do not want second hand:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Antonio-de-Cabezon-1500-1566-Orgelwerke/hnum/3277588

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 05, 2018, 01:11:09 PM
.
I was less impressed by the other recordings of Uriol, though. But something about the Daroca organ just works well with him.

Have you heard him play Pablo Bruna? 
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 05, 2018, 02:26:57 PM
Have you heard him play Pablo Bruna?
No I haven't! Any samples? (I don't know Bruna as well as Cabezon or Arauxo)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 05, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
No I haven't! Any samples? (I don't know Bruna as well as Cabezon or Arauxo)

I'll put it on symphonyshare later, there's 3 CDs, one at Daroca, one at Sàdaba, one at Almonacid de la Siera. I blow a bit hot and cold about the music.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Que on May 06, 2018, 12:32:59 AM
What's the word on Bates?


Q
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2018, 03:11:52 AM
 I was very glad to hear the organ at Berkeley California in Bates's Arauxo. This is by Greg Harrold, a factor based in LA, I'd like to hear more of his work. I'm sure I've heard another one of his organs before, op 11 maybe, and I remember being impressed, I can't remember where though (something played by William Porter maybe?)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 06, 2018, 04:28:10 AM
I was very glad to hear the organ at Berkeley California in Bates's Arauxo. This is by Greg Harrold, a factor based in LA, I'd like to hear more of his work. I'm sure I've heard another one of his organs before, op 11 maybe, and I remember being impressed, I can't remember where though (something played by William Porter maybe?)


Not Porter, but John Butt's Cabanilles CD.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2018, 06:08:23 AM
I think I may have been confusing Harrold with Fisk, because I see that Fisk also gives opus numbers to his organs, I may have been thinking of Christa Rakich's Leipzig Chorales CD. I never listen to Butt in fact.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 06, 2018, 09:21:04 AM
I was very glad to hear the organ at Berkeley California in Bates's Arauxo. This is by Greg Harrold, a factor based in LA, I'd like to hear more of his work. I'm sure I've heard another one of his organs before, op 11 maybe, and I remember being impressed, I can't remember where though (something played by William Porter maybe?)

This organ sort of had a weird story -- it was built for a place on the Berkeley campus that was never actually finished, so had to be housed in a lutheran seminary (along with a nice 19th century organ) where it was only used a few times a year for concerts. A few years ago, the Lutheran seminary had to sell their property, so Cal was forced to sell the organ after they couldn't find any churches in the bay area willing to house the organ.
It's in Oberlin now! I guess they have more use for it as a conservatory...
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on May 06, 2018, 09:34:07 AM
I'll put it on symphonyshare later, there's 3 CDs, one at Daroca, one at Sàdaba, one at Almonacid de la Siera. I blow a bit hot and cold about the music.
Thank you! Will be interesting!
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2018, 08:37:35 PM
What's the word on Bates?


Q

Spanish organists who use Spanish organs and who have a native contact with duende, make the music sound exotic. Bates seems to locate Arauxo very much in the tradition of Sweelinck and Philips.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Que on May 06, 2018, 08:46:00 PM
Spanish organists who use Spanish organs and who have a native contact with duende, make the music sound exotic. Bates seems to locate Arauxo very much in the tradition of Sweelinck and Philips.

That's the feel I got when sampling as well.... :)

Q
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 06, 2018, 08:51:25 PM
That's the feel I got when sampling as well.... :)

Q

This issue is interesting because, as you know better than me, Spain had plenty of "contact" with the Netherlands, and so there was, I suppose, some cultural cross fertilisation.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 02, 2018, 09:39:42 PM
New!


Q

What’s distinctive about many of these performances is how, while reflecting some  contrasts and silences in the music, Cera plays with great fluidity, as if he  wants to turn the music into a long stream, sometimes tranquil, sometimes turbulent. He manages to suggest the requisite spiritual ardour I think.

The pieces aren’t well identified in the booklet - for example, it’s just not enough to print “Tiento de septimo tono.”

The organ sounds good, meantone 1/4 comma apparently,  it sounds very clean and neutral, like a good modern organ - sweetly restored, there’s no noise from the action. The sound engineering is transparent.

This comment in the booklet essay caught my attention.

Quote
His [Correa’s] way of blending different styles and techniques within a single tiento points to the idea of different realities, some part of the experience of the common man, some far removed from the day-to-day. The tiento thus becomes a path bringing the human and the divine closer together, an agonising interplay between reason and emotion within a musical-rhetorical scheme which is highly complex and yet speaks to all listeners. It is also a reflection of the erudite but challenging environment in which the composer lived and worked.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mr. Minnow on June 06, 2018, 03:39:09 PM
Spanish organists who use Spanish organs and who have a native contact with duende, make the music sound exotic. Bates seems to locate Arauxo very much in the tradition of Sweelinck and Philips.

That does sound interesting. It's quite pricey though - the cheapest I can find is about 40 euros, which is a fair bit of cash to drop on a single item. Would you recommend it at that sort of price?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 06, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
That does sound interesting. It's quite pricey though - the cheapest I can find is about 40 euros, which is a fair bit of cash to drop on a single item. Would you recommend it at that sort of price?


I can’t answer that question.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: "Harry" on June 07, 2018, 01:04:29 AM
What’s distinctive about many of these performances is how, while reflecting some  contrasts and silences in the music, Cera plays with great fluidity, as if he  wants to turn the music into a long stream, sometimes tranquil, sometimes turbulent. He manages to suggest the requisite spiritual ardour I think.

The pieces aren’t well identified in the booklet - for example, it’s just not enough to print “Tiento de septimo tono.”

The organ sounds good, meantone 1/4 comma apparently,  it sounds very clean and neutral, like a good modern organ - sweetly restored, there’s no noise from the action. The sound engineering is transparent.

This comment in the booklet essay caught my attention.

As I have it my possession now I can confirm the excellence of the playing and the sound of the organ. Clean it is, not neutral, and it certainly does not sound like a good sweet organ. Most of the pipe work is original, and since I heard quite a few Renaissance organs all over the world, this one has the stamp of authenticity in sound.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: "Harry" on June 07, 2018, 01:06:04 AM
What's the word on Bates?


Q

This release is on my list of maybe purchase. But I need to listen to longer samples I guess.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 01:38:51 AM
This release is on my list of maybe purchase. But I need to listen to longer samples I guess.

I'd be very interested in what you think about this.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 01:40:30 AM
As I have it my possession now I can confirm the excellence of the playing and the sound of the organ. Clean it is, not neutral, and it certainly does not sound like a good sweet organ. Most of the pipe work is original, and since I heard quite a few Renaissance organs all over the world, this one has the stamp of authenticity in sound.

It's the cleanness of it which struck me, it's true. It was a sound which I wasn't expecting from such an old organ. But it does sound good.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mr. Minnow on June 07, 2018, 02:40:14 AM

I can’t answer that question.

OK, I'll see what other info I can find. In the meantime Cera's new Brilliant release looks very good, definitely one to get I think.

 
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 04:02:19 AM
OK, I'll see what other info I can find. In the meantime Cera's new Brilliant release looks very good, definitely one to get I think.

My own top preference for Arauxo remains Ayarra. It’s strange this, because he’s possibly the only composer where I have a top choice!
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 07, 2018, 05:50:38 AM
My own top preference for Arauxo remains Ayarra. It’s strange this, because he’s possibly the only composer where I have a top choice!


I suppose this relates to complete sets, and I agree about this. But as to individual CDs my preferences are Odile Bailleux and Francis Chapelet, even if they have recorded very little.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: "Harry" on June 07, 2018, 05:58:59 AM
Well I had the chance to listen through the Bates recordings, all five of them, and decided its not for me. I find his playing too mellow, and the organs he used rather lame, apart from the two last ones in the US. Neither was I fond of the recordings, somewhat diffused and distant. Did not feel connected to the composer at all like in the Cera recordings. I must explore other recordings of this composer.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 06:44:02 AM
Well I had the change to listen through the Bates recordings, all five of them, and decided its not for me. I find his playing too mellow, and the organs he used rather lame, apart from the two last ones in the US. Neither was I fond of the recordings, somewhat diffused and distant. Did not feel connected to the composer at all like in the Cera recordings.

Much appreciated, I understand where you're coming from.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 08:14:51 AM

I suppose this relates to complete sets, and I agree about this. But as to individual CDs my preferences are Odile Bailleux and Francis Chapelet, even if they have recorded very little.

Have you had a chance to hear a Andres Cea’s Arauxo CD? I think it’s well worth hearing, serious, noble.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YSLFzcukL._PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mr. Minnow on June 07, 2018, 11:07:17 AM
My own top preference for Arauxo remains Ayarra. It’s strange this, because he’s possibly the only composer where I have a top choice!

Ayarra's set looks very good, but unfortunately it appears to be deleted and impossible to find at anything like an affordable price. For complete sets it looks like a choice between Bates or nothing. There's a very positive review of Bates on Amazon UK by Stephen Midgley, with whom I often find myself in agreement; on the other hand, we have Pjotr on this thread expressing a very different view. No easy choices here!
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 11:45:05 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xQ8AAOSw2iJbEFeK/s-l1600.jpg)

Anyone heard either of these two?

Without wishing to appear racist, I really think that Arauxo needs to be played by a Spaniard on an old Spanish organ, with a split keyboard and meantone tuning. Someone who has duende and the inquisition in his blood. The music is just so much an exploration of Spanish organs and of harmonies in meantone. And the nature of his imagination and his  inspiration, his sensibility, seems so exotic. More so than Cabezon  and Cabanilles IMO.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 07, 2018, 12:17:19 PM
This one, even if only played on a fine modern organ in Spanish style by Patrick Collon, is also worth considering:

https://www.amazon.de/Francisco-Correa-Arauxo/dp/B000084HF2/ref=sr_1_11?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1528404835&sr=1-11&keywords=correa+arauxo

I know Mersiovsky's CD. She is Portuguese. Short playing time but rather Iberian mood.

Clemente Terni is Italian, I do not know his CD.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 07, 2018, 12:25:37 PM
Have you had a chance to hear a Andres Cea’s Arauxo CD? I think it’s well worth hearing, serious, noble.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YSLFzcukL._PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)

I have owned it for some years now. Yes rather noble.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2018, 08:31:21 PM
I have owned it for some years now. Yes rather noble.

There are a lot of recordings by Andres Cea: Scarlatti, compilation CDs of obscure and anonymous early Spanish music, vocal music. At the moment I only know his Cabezon and Correa.

I have Götz’s Arauxo but I can’t get on with it, it sound too tame.

I found Clemento Terni’s Arauxo on Spotify -my first impressions are rather positive. 

It’s a long long time since I heard Foccroulle play this music, my memory of it is quite positive.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 09, 2018, 03:18:23 AM
I own another CD by Cea wit a few more tientos by Arauxo (one of the compilation CDs).

Götz's Arauxo needs perhaps a few re-listenings on your part.

I have ordered Terni's Arauxo from an AMP seller, shall notify you when it arrives.


Just revisited some of Bates' Arauxo CDs. The organs are historically interesting and the recorded sound acceptable, if not up to the high standard we are used to with LOFT. But I agree with you and Harry about the interpretations, whish I find earthbound and unimaginative. It is obviously only completists or listeners with a special interest in Spanish organs, who need this set.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 09, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
I have ordered Terni's Arauxo from an AMP seller, shall notify you when it arrives.


.

Yes I found Teni’s CD on Spotify and, though I’ve hardly been able to listen properly, I doubt you’ll be disappointed by your purchase.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 13, 2018, 07:28:20 AM

But as to individual CDs my preferences are . . . Francis Chapelet, even if [t]hey have recorded very little.

All I’ve heard is on the Livre d’orgue des chiquitos CD. Some of it is very spontaneous and flamboyant playing.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 13, 2018, 11:22:11 AM
All I’ve heard is on the Livre d’orgue des chiquitos CD. Some of it is very spontaneous and flamboyant playing.


I own this and a few more. Flamboyant is a good description. I think there is a flamboyant element in many of Arauxos tientos.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 14, 2018, 09:02:43 AM

I own this and a few more. Flamboyant is a good description. I think there is a flamboyant element in many of Arauxos tientos.

I just found this 2017 release from Chapelet, music by Louis Couperin, Arauxo and others. A lot of it is as charismatic as a battering ram, but the Arauxo is not totally uninteresting. 

(They play a Louis Couperin prelude which is supposed to be “fort lent” quite quickly),it would be nice to see the booklet to see what they have to say.


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517BuzA6yDL._SX355_.jpg)

I’ve also been listening to Céa and Cera play Arauxo, I find Cera a bit tiring to listen to for very long, this is a problem I’ve had with him on harpsichord, and I find Céa very rewarding. Cera’s registrations, colourful and contrasted, may not be my cup of tea. Céa is dusky and mystical.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on June 14, 2018, 09:18:26 AM
I just found this 2017 release from Chapelet, music by Louis Couperin, Arauxo and others. A lot of it is as charismatic as a battering ram, but the Arauxo is not totally uninteresting. 

(They play a Louis Couperin prelude which is supposed to be “fort lent” quite quickly),it would be nice to see the booklet to see what they have to say.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517BuzA6yDL._SX355_.jpg)


Uriel Valadeau (isn't it he who plays the Couperin prelude?) is an unknown name to me, and the programming is too mixed. For that reason I have passed this CD (which was released 2006 according to Amazon fr.) by.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on June 14, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
Ah it must have been the transfer to music files which was 2017.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 09, 2018, 04:50:09 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xQ8AAOSw2iJbEFeK/s-l1600.jpg)

Anyone heard either of these two?

Without wishing to appear racist, I really think that Arauxo needs to be played by a Spaniard on an old Spanish organ, with a split keyboard and meantone tuning. Someone who has duende and the inquisition in his blood. The music is just so much an exploration of Spanish organs and of harmonies in meantone. And the nature of his imagination and his  inspiration, his sensibility, seems so exotic. More so than Cabezon  and Cabanilles IMO.

Extraordinary slowed down noble spiritual Tiento XV in Terni’s recording. Quite a contrast from Ayarra.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on October 10, 2018, 01:44:08 AM
Extraordinary slowed down noble spiritual Tiento XV in Terni’s recording. Quite a contrast from Ayarra.

Yes, very slow. I find most of the pieces on this CD to be too slow.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 10, 2018, 07:16:10 AM
Yes, very slow. I find most of the pieces on this CD to be too slow.

Tempo varies a lot in the handful of performances I could find of that Tiento. I’m guessing that there’s nothing in the score to indicate one tempo over another.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2018, 01:38:47 AM
I’ve sometimes had a bit of trouble appreciating Cabezon on record, that’s not to say that I haven’t enjoyed many things by him, but occasionally I’ve felt that fundamentally he’s not a composer for me.

Reading Leon Berben’s essay in his new recording for Aeolus, I’m starting to see that Canezon is specially challenging to get off the page. In fact, I see that his publisher (i.e, his son) asked people to be indulgent in their judgement of the music

Quote
In the  the Proemio or introduction to the ”Obras de música para tecla, arpa y vihuela” (1578), Hernando de Cabezón, son of Antonio and publisher of much of his father’s music, writes the following: ”His duties and travels did not allow him to compose as he could have done in tran- quillity and ease. And as far as the content of this vol- ume is concerned, one must compare it with the crumbs that fell from his dish rather than view it as premeditated and well-wrought compositions; are they not merely pieces which he used to teach his pu- pils, which do not represent the artistic judgement of the master but were tailored to talent and skills”.

Berben goes on to suggest that the scores require a particularly imaginative, creative, interpretation - his reading of Fray Tomás de Santa María’s ”Libro llamado Arte de tañer fantasiá para tecla, vihuela y todo instrumento...” and other documents lead him to the conclusion that

Quote
the written music does not (always) include all the information re- quired for its execution and is sooner intended ’only’ as point of departure for performance. But it is not simply a matter of adding the cus- tomary ornaments such as trills and mordents (mostly referred to as quiebro and redoble). The characteristic glosas too, based on the embel- lishment of intervals – the art of diminution – are vital to the performance of Iberian music. In his ”Tratado de glosas” Diego Ortiz (1553), for example, meticulously describes this type of or- namentation.

Rather fancifully, Berben suggests that Canezon’s blindness may itself indicate that when he played at least, he was specially free

Quote
Is the blind musician liber- ated from the slavery of the physical score and
14 the necessity of a finished, definitive version? Does this not also underline the position of the interpreter, of the improviser? Experience and memory gain new importance and create the circumstances for new and perhaps unforeseen occurrences.

Re the music itself Koos van de Linde, who’s involved in the production of the booklet at least,  says the following

Quote
. . .  Cabezón’s works are not purely organ or keyboard music, but rather abstract compositions to be played on all sorts of instruments

I’ve not had a chance to listen to the whole recording yet, but I’m wondering what the impact, if any, of this last idea will be for his interpretations. In the booklet, Berben does not comment on Koos van de Linde’s proposal.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2019, 03:38:30 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/8111MVj1g3L._SL1260_.jpg)

It's nice that this CD exists, because the music's rare, especially on a harpsichord. Nishiyama is a harpist as well as a keyboard player, so I was hoping for harp effects on the clave, but if there are any I didn't notice -- on harpsichord the music remains a bit tough, but not unbearable. I just wish that Nishyama varied her attacks more, and I wish that she had the skill to make her music less flat -- to give the sense of one voice interrupting or supporting another to create a 3D texture. But when she recorded this, her first CD I think, she hadn't. She's a bit grim monochrome too, and is not beyond pounding the keyboard with her boots. Ouch.

The final three tracks are on a virginal, and here she begins to show a slightly more tender and poetic sensibility.

After listening to it I went back to Erdas in Cabezon

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/963/MI0002963148.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

and here we're in an altogether superior world of music making -- so it can be done.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on May 10, 2019, 01:35:46 PM
Leon Berben plays organ music by Cabezon on the Gothic organ in St. Andreas Soest-Ostönnen.

The organ is meant to stem from the early 14th century. It is well preserved and recently well restored, and is claimed to contain the oldest existing still sounding pipes. It contains seven stops on one manual.  Temperature unequal after Schlick modified by Harald Vogel without further specification. The sound of the organ is individual, magnificent and athmospheric, and the sound quality of the recording is outstanding. Leon Berben's well-known rather strict style suits Cabezon's music very well and creates a meditative (Mandryka would probably say mystic) aura around the music. My only objection is, that the differencias, which obviously are secular music, should be interpreted a tad more flexible, preferably on harpsicord.

Need I to write, that this CD is a must.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: "Harry" on May 10, 2019, 01:41:29 PM
Leon Berben plays organ music by Cabezon on the Gothic organ in St. Andreas Soest-Ostönnen.

The organ is meant to stem from the early 14th century. It is well preserved and recently well restored, and is claimed to contain the oldest existing still sounding pipes. It contains seven stops on one manual.  Temperature unequal after Schlick modified by Harald Vogel without further specification. The sound of the organ is individual, magnificent and athmospheric, and the sound quality of the recording is outstanding. Leon Berben's well-known rather strict style suits Cabezon's music very well and creates a meditative (Mandryka would probably say mystic) aura around the music. My only objection is, that the differencias, which obviously are secular music, should be interpreted a tad more flexible, preferably on harpsicord.

Need I to write, that this CD is a must.

On my ordering list. Thank you Poul for the thumbs up
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 10, 2019, 08:46:21 PM
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/hdtrack_img/HD5060113444516_185.jpg)

This is the start of an interesting essay on style in Cabanilles by Andrés Cea Galán, interesting because it shows how hard it is to make authentic style judgements, it’s taken from Vol. 3 of Timothy Roberts’s survey, the previous two volumes I found  myself very much enjoying, so I’m looking forward to getting to know this third.

Quote
From the standpoint of present knowledge it is rather hard to comment on matters of style in relation either to Spanish instrumental music in general, or to Cabanilles’ keyboard music in particular. Numerous musical sources (scores, treatises) survive to provide a quantity of explicit details that cast light on the form and structure of his compositions and enable scholars to analyse his use of counterpoint and harmony. Such objective criteria enable each work to be ascribed to one of a range of particular musical genres, although by their nature such stylistic categories must remain tentative.

When one turns to the interpretation of Cabanilles’ music, the information provided by those explicit, ‘foreground’ elements is overshadowed by the much more important implicit ones. The latter include essential aspects of performance such as, first, the selection of the instruments to be used, taking into account, for example, the number and range of the manuals; the style and number of the stops, and their pitch and temperament. It is then also necessary to consider questions of tempo, and variations of tempo; the use of suitable fingering and articulation (including rhythmic inequality); the introduction of appropriate ornaments; and finally the actual use of the manuals and the registrations the instrument makes available.

In the process of (re)discovering such implicit elements in the music, questions will also arise concerning the function of the pieces in their historical context, as well as about the intended meaning of the music in that context, including any rhetoric and symbolism that may be associated with a particular composition. Last but not least, there is the capacity of Cabanilles’ music to transmit a specific mood or emotion, which performers have to try to deliver convincingly to the listener. Such historical aspects of an interpretation will have an enormous influence from the stylistic point of view; but even if one gets that far, alongside the knowledge gained from an extensive, complimentary study of documents and of the organological evidence, the personal approach that each performer brings is another vital element in the understanding of this music.

The problem of defining style is even more complex when one considers the possible influences on Cabanilles in the course of his career, and the way in which those influences may be reflected in his compositions. To state that Valencia, where he made his living as a musician and as a priest, was historically connected to Italy politically, socially, culturally and economically, is to say both everything and nothing: such links are the inevitable result of a natural relationship between two seventeenth- century Catholic countries facing each other across the Mediterranean in the era of the Counter-Reformation.

The manuscripts containing Cabanilles’ music do indeed include some keyboard pieces by Italian, or Italianate, composers, such as Frescobaldi, Froberger and Kerll, as well as instrumental balleti e correnti and even some of Corelli’s violin sonatas and

concertos. But it should be observed that some of those collections also offer a few copies of French keyboard works, by Couperin or Lebègue, for example, as well as many arrangements of single movements from Lully’s operas and ballets. To this extent the Cabanilles sources are not exceptional, as several other Spanish sources of keyboard, harp or guitar music dating from his lifetime also contain Italian and French pieces among the traditional Spanish compositions. Such examples leave no doubt that around 1700 Spanish musicians absorbed foreign tastes and influences both in their composing and their playing, although it is difficult to be sure of the degree to which they were really conscious of such stylistic subtleties, or how they treated them in practical terms. To sum up, musicology has yet to investigate in depth how far Cabanilles was able to assimilate such different idioms, or to bring the style of his compositions into conformity with those foreign influences.


Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on May 10, 2019, 08:54:49 PM
Leon Berben plays organ music by Cabezon on the Gothic organ in St. Andreas Soest-Ostönnen.

The organ is meant to stem from the early 14th century. It is well preserved and recently well restored, and is claimed to contain the oldest existing still sounding pipes. It contains seven stops on one manual.  Temperature unequal after Schlick modified by Harald Vogel without further specification. The sound of the organ is individual, magnificent and athmospheric, and the sound quality of the recording is outstanding. Leon Berben's well-known rather strict style suits Cabezon's music very well and creates a meditative (Mandryka would probably say mystic) aura around the music. My only objection is, that the differencias, which obviously are secular music, should be interpreted a tad more flexible, preferably on harpsicord.

Need I to write, that this CD is a must.

Apparently in Spain, the use of the organ was forbidden in Holy Week, which gives some  credence to the idea that even the pieces which aren’t variations may have been heard publicly on a harpsichord.

I recently listened to a lot of Cabezon recordings and yes, I enjoyed very much Berben. But I also enjoyed some of the music on Astronio’s set, in particular those pieces played on harpsichord or on brass instruments - organ less so on the whole.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2019, 12:47:22 AM
(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/S33601.jpg)

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/S3%203601


Here’s something I missed. Paola Erdas has her own ensemble of singers and instrumentalists, Janas Ensemble, and this is their latest recording from last year, early Spanish baroque music most of which from composers I’ve never heard of, but someone of Paola Erdas’ stature being involved, I’m keen to explore. Initial impressions is that the music’s very easy going and tuneful, lovely, lively, not at all cerebral, pretty predictable, and that makes it reassuring. With stuff like this a lot depends on the singers, or rather in this case, Lia Serafini, whose quasi-operatic voice I like very much, clearly there’s nothing generalisable from that. I wish we heard more of her on the CD. The ensemble itself is wonderful - colourful, precise, expressive, flamboyant and superbly recorded. I don’t have much patience for early instrumental music, but what they do is fine, and I didn’t feel myself getting too irritated by strict rhythms. Anyone who liked Skip Sempe’s Cabezon will probably enjoy at least some of this.

As so often before, this is the sort of CD which, if it were a concert, especially if it were a relaxed concert in a club like setting, we’d be up on our feet shouting Bravo at the end, and be remembering it the day after with great pleasure. Good for streaming, but unfortunately as far as I can see they’ve not put it up for streaming.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2021, 12:49:15 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5MTc3Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTM2NDgzMTl9)

I can’t find any details of the organ, but it sounds good. The notes say that Céa went to sources, this is a scholarly release. They also say that Cabanilles is misunderstood, that he’s not a bravura merchant, that in fact his music is rich in both contrapuntal imagination and in emotional variety. Initial dipping into this release bears that out.

This site has the most I can find on the CD

https://www.lindoro.es/catalogo/cabanilles-ante-ruet-mundus/
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Que on March 20, 2021, 01:08:11 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5MTc3Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTM2NDgzMTl9)

I can’t find any details of the organ, but it sounds good. The notes say that Céa went to sources, this is a scholarly release. They also say that Cabanilles is misunderstood, that he’s not a bravura merchant, that in fact his music is rich in both contrapuntal imagination and in emotional variety. Initial dipping into this release bears that out.

This site has the most I can find on the CD

https://www.lindoro.es/catalogo/cabanilles-ante-ruet-mundus/

The organ used was built in 1765 by Juan de Chavarría Murugarren.

More details on the organ HERE (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Orgeln_von_San_Juan_Bautista_(Marchena)&ved=2ahUKEwiBwNKLwr7vAhUI_aQKHefsDq8QFjAGegQICxAC&usg=AOvVaw292otvNfE1PTNuMOmJqr1Q)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2021, 01:09:39 AM
The organ used was built in 1765 by Juan de Chavarría Murugarren.

More details:
https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Orgeln_von_San_Juan_Bautista_(Marchena)

Thanks, it is dominating my listening at the moment, so that’s a good sign. However, that link says “page not found!”
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 23, 2021, 07:00:59 AM

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517BuzA6yDL._SX355_.jpg)

Uriel Valadeau (isn't it he who plays the Couperin prelude?) is an unknown name to me, and the programming is too mixed. For that reason I have passed this CD (which was released 2006 according to Amazon fr.) by.

I acquired the CD later but found it disappointing. Most of the music is too uninteresting, and the great Chapelet can't hide this.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 23, 2021, 10:41:58 AM
I acquired the CD later but found it disappointing. Most of the music is too uninteresting, and the great Chapelet can't hide this.

Well I did try to warn you.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 23, 2021, 11:06:02 AM
Well I did try to warn you.

Yes, I know. But it was the presence of Chapelet (and the label), that tempted me. This is the first recording from Chapelet's hands  I have heard, which isn't less than outstanding.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: deprofundis on March 27, 2021, 05:55:11 AM
I did not know or am aware of someone mentioning this LP.

(https://i.discogs.com/R-3235617-1321716823.jpeg?bucket=discogs-images&fit=contain&format=auto&height=498&quality=90&width=500&signature=OCje1XUDvMyRgzuxgUMiRhmHaMoeu4vmaAM7ZUH1p6c%3D)

Mine mint, worth hearing, Mandryka, if you want it can send it to you, via post, good recording, have a nice day. Private message me if interested.

 8)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 27, 2021, 07:22:14 AM
I did not know or am aware of someone mentioning this LP.



Mine mint, worth hearing, Mandryka, if you want it can send it to you, via post, good recording, have a nice day. Private message me if interested.

 8)

You mean this

https://www.discogs.com/Helmuth-Rilling-Spanish-Organ-Music/release/3235617

It does look interesting.  I have a transfer of it in fact, but can't remember anything about it! I'll try to listen to it soon.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on March 27, 2021, 07:48:48 AM
You mean this

https://www.discogs.com/Helmuth-Rilling-Spanish-Organ-Music/release/3235617

It does look interesting.

I owned this recording long time ago. It was one of those discs I culled without digitizing it. Rilling plays in an engaged way, but the organ is completely un-Spanish sounding and was in the long rum unbearable..

https://organindex.de/index.php?title=Stuttgart,_Ged%C3%A4chtniskirche&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

https://www.discogs.com/Helmuth-Rilling-Spanish-Organ-Music/master/605705
(scroll down and read the review at the bottom of the page.)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 27, 2021, 07:50:53 AM
the organ is completely un-Spanish sounding and was in the long rum unbearable..


Yes, I just played the first track.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: mabuse on March 27, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
I don't know much about this repertoire...
But at one point I was fond of the Bamboo Organ of Las Piñas and I discovered this very pleasant recording :
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51W7xsYK8rL.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/T8pNSFbOgyHXvSSyhKoa8k3sXpo=/fit-in/600x509/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-14093996-1567918406-4571.jpeg.jpg)
Die Bambusorgel von Las Piñas
Albert Bolliger
Ex Libris / Sinus (1989-1990)

Authentic in its own way... 🇪🇸
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_Organ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_Organ)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 27, 2021, 01:04:01 PM
I don't know much about this repertoire...
But at one point I was fond of the Bamboo Organ of Las Piñas and I discovered this very pleasant recording :
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51W7xsYK8rL.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/T8pNSFbOgyHXvSSyhKoa8k3sXpo=/fit-in/600x509/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-14093996-1567918406-4571.jpeg.jpg)
Die Bambusorgel von Las Piñas
Albert Bolliger
Ex Libris / Sinus (1989-1990)

Authentic in its own way... 🇪🇸
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_Organ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_Organ)

I've not heard it but I have heard quite a few recordings by Bolliger and I like what he does very much: Pachelbel, North German music and indeed this

(https://img.discogs.com/M-mz2agX0aV0J_Dc0xh6700ime4=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10944877-1506963572-9923.jpeg.jpg)

I shall get the Bamboo Organ recording today.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on March 28, 2021, 02:24:56 AM
I owned this recording long time ago. It was one of those discs I culled without digitizing it. Rilling plays in an engaged way, but the organ is completely un-Spanish sounding and was in the long rum unbearable..

https://organindex.de/index.php?title=Stuttgart,_Ged%C3%A4chtniskirche&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

https://www.discogs.com/Helmuth-Rilling-Spanish-Organ-Music/master/605705
(scroll down and read the review at the bottom of the page.)

As stated above I agree about the Rilling.  The experience prompted me to go back to Jens Christensen’s Spanish CD, and the organ there seemed much more listenable.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2021, 12:14:59 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41u4cbRwvML.jpg)

Revisiting the tracks on the Lerma organ on first CD of this with Glen Wilson’s concept of delicate fluency and otherworldliness in mind, and yes it is delicate, it is fluent and it is otherworldly. However it is severe and unsmiling. The otherness is a sort of non-humanity.


https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp?item_code=8.572475-76&catNum=572475&filetype=About%20this%20Recording&language=English
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2021, 01:03:32 AM
And this is the only other recording I can find of the interesting Lerma organ

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0OTM2MC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzM2Njc3MTN9)

How well that image on the cover seems to go with the drama and passion of the music in Cea’s hands. Quite a contrast from Uriol’s style in Cabezon.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 22, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
And as far as I can see there is no other recording of the organ at Santa Maria church of Garrovillas de Alconétar. It sounds like the way an organ should sound in Arauxo!


Cera sounds as though he's enjoying himself to me, a mature and thought-through performance, warm and rich. I hope he can find a spirit of abandon and adventure in the music, and find an essence of each piece -- make each piece sound distinct. I think these have been the weaknesses in some of the other recordings I've heard from Cera.


https://www.youtube.com/v/jqK5gbmI9BM

This is still my favorite Correa de Arauxo recording so far, I like the natural feel to the playing but also the organ, really beautiful (and full of those black sounds we all love!). I think I am finally warming to his music.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2021, 07:37:30 AM
This is still my favorite Correa de Arauxo recording so far, I like the natural feel to the playing but also the organ, really beautiful (and full of those black sounds we all love!). I think I am finally warming to his music.

Well that sent me off listening to it, not sure I ever properly did when it came out.

Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 23, 2021, 07:51:07 AM
Well that sent me off listening to it, not sure I ever properly did when it came out.

First reaction: The recording quality sounds squeaky clean, like a new organ in an non reverberant environment! No sense of hall. This somehow gives the music energy, no doubt helped by Cera’s intense playing, that energy is something I’d associated more with Cabanilles and Bruna and Heredia than Arauxo before.

(Have you heard Ayarra?)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 23, 2021, 10:01:40 PM
First reaction: The recording quality sounds squeaky clean, like a new organ in an non reverberant environment! No sense of hall. This somehow gives the music energy, no doubt helped by Cera’s intense playing, that energy is something I’d associated more with Cabanilles and Bruna and Heredia than Arauxo before.

(Have you heard Ayarra?)

I'm curious what you you think of this recording, on the same organ. I do like the Garrovillas de Alconétar organ a lot, sounds ancient to me and very different from later Spanish organs from the 17th century on. 

Ayarra I've heard and tried to like, very arcane playing on equally strange instruments captured by outdated recording technology - but I think I am also starting to appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k8AMaU4uX_x1g9fc42Cati4YF7M04tO0o

I think out of all the composers named above I like Heredia the most. A bit more concise version of Correa de Arauxo I think.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 24, 2021, 06:29:36 PM
Anyone heard this yet?

(https://static.fnac-static.com/multimedia/Images/FR/NR/17/3e/a8/11025943/1507-1/tsp20190314111047/Siglo-De-Oro-Digipack.jpg)

Ablitzer, his Titelouze has now become my favorite.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 24, 2021, 06:54:47 PM
A very nice recital on a nice organ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab76oFRgul4
Frédéric MAYEUR on a copy of a 17th century Peruvian organ.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on October 25, 2021, 12:50:53 AM
Anyone heard this yet?

(https://static.fnac-static.com/multimedia/Images/FR/NR/17/3e/a8/11025943/1507-1/tsp20190314111047/Siglo-De-Oro-Digipack.jpg)

Ablitzer, his Titelouze has now become my favorite.

Yes. owned it for half a year or so. As expected played in the usual Ablitzer-authoritative way. Very recommendable.

Darasse is my Titelouze favorite (he only recorded four of the hymns in Sarlat), and Bates (Bolbec) is the one who comes nearest to him.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 25, 2021, 06:55:37 AM
I'm curious what you you think of this recording, on the same organ. I do like the Garrovillas de Alconétar organ a lot, sounds ancient to me and very different from later Spanish organs from the 17th century on. 

Ayarra I've heard and tried to like, very arcane playing on equally strange instruments captured by outdated recording technology - but I think I am also starting to appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k8AMaU4uX_x1g9fc42Cati4YF7M04tO0o

I think out of all the composers named above I like Heredia the most. A bit more concise version of Correa de Arauxo I think.

Why do you say arcane? It's true that I hear a sort of spooky mysterious quality, and somehow I've always associated that with Arauxo rather that Ayarra -- but maybe I was wrong.

BY the way, re Hedera, the only recording I own is Ablizer, which I shall play soon and comment on if anything comes to mind.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 25, 2021, 12:24:52 PM
Why do you say arcane? It's true that I hear a sort of spooky mysterious quality, and somehow I've always associated that with Arauxo rather that Ayarra -- but maybe I was wrong.

BY the way, re Hedera, the only recording I own is Ablizer, which I shall play soon and comment on if anything comes to mind.

I don't know, it's just a bit of a weird sounding recording to me. Also somewhat old-school. I need to listen more to it, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2021, 12:46:25 AM
Heredia - I have two CDs dedicated to his music, Ablitzer and Miguel del Barco Diaz on Brillant. Love the Diaz, both at the level of interpretation and of organology.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2021, 11:14:18 PM
Really enjoying this, Uriol at Zaragoza on Valois. In fact I may be enjoying it more than any other Heredia I’ve heard, though that may be just a reflection of my mood. The recording is full of composers I’ve never even heard of, Andres de Sola and Diego Xavara and Jusepe Ximenes and Sebastian Duron . . . All baroque petits maîtres who are maybe worth a listen once at least, though for me they’ve mostly outstayed their welcome before their music is over.


(https://images.recordsale.de/570/570/jose-luis-gonzalez-uriol-la-escuela-de-zaragoza--ii.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 28, 2021, 12:16:40 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/814tAkQlQBL._SS500_.jpg)

This one is tremendous! Fabulous Heredia and the other minor composers sound fabulous too. It may be just that the sun is shining, but this sounds like the best of the Uriol bunch that I’ve heard.

I didn’t realise that there was a whole organ school associated with Zaragoza. I have only been there once, and I remember a working city dominated by a cathedral with some impressive paintings and an old district with a lively market and a weird name for an Englishman - tubo. At the time I wasn’t interested in organ so I never explored it, it was a filthy wet November in the early 1980s, I missed out on something obviously  . . . .

Anyway this is a good recording worth hearing probably many times.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 29, 2021, 02:27:09 AM
Now for something completely different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-BJkJMHKS4
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on October 29, 2021, 01:42:25 PM
Now for something completely different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-BJkJMHKS4

By coincidence just yesterday I discovered this CD, which is full of music by Arauxo played on a harpsichord - I’m not sure what I think.

(https://www.passacaille.be/48-large_default/folias-artistslydia-maria-blank-composerjbj-cabanilles-fc-de-arauxo-j-ximenez-pbruna.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on October 29, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
By coincidence just yesterday I discovered this CD, which is full of music by Arauxo played on a harpsichord - I’m not sure what I think.

(https://www.passacaille.be/48-large_default/folias-artistslydia-maria-blank-composerjbj-cabanilles-fc-de-arauxo-j-ximenez-pbruna.jpg)

As far as I recall, we discussed this CD a few years ago and agreed it was very impressive, I think I used an expression "Lydia Maria Blank's recordings are self-recommending" cf. her Trabaci and Göttweig manuscript recordings. I have enjoyed it several times since then.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on November 08, 2021, 01:34:27 AM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/f8c9674230c9128775c52936b3fbc32a/e88cj8-antoniodec-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)

Returning to this this morning, it’s obvious that the music gains a lot from the colourful instrument, and from the fact that Berben doesn’t press forward aggressively, and that he finds a sobre yet sweet tone of voice. Not a hint of the Grand Inquisitor about these performances.

Certainly one of the more interesting Cabezon recordings out there, and a pleasure to hear.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: "Harry" on November 08, 2021, 02:52:37 AM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/f8c9674230c9128775c52936b3fbc32a/e88cj8-antoniodec-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)

Returning to this this morning, it’s obvious that the music gains a lot from the colourful instrument, and from the fact that Berben doesn’t press forward aggressively, and that he finds a sobre yet sweet tone of voice. Not a hint of the Grand Inquisitor about these performances.

Certainly one of the more interesting Cabezon recordings out there, and a pleasure to hear.

Well then, high praise indeed. On the order list. But first the Hieronymus Praetorius double CD, on which I wait impatiently. :)
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on November 09, 2021, 02:27:26 PM
As far as I recall, we discussed this CD a few years ago and agreed it was very impressive, I think I used an expression "Lydia Maria Blank's recordings are self-recommending" cf. her Trabaci and Göttweig manuscript recordings. I have enjoyed it several times since then.

I think I’d assumed it was just full of music based on La Follia, which didn’t appeal - I remember talking to you about the Trabaci and thr Goettweig Sonatas, but not this. Anyway, it is really outstanding.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Selig on December 09, 2021, 05:29:37 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273951ef9df9cf1a562260ec47e)

Looks like I chose a good time to start listening to 17C Spanish organ music  :)

Montserrat Torrent has completed her Arauxo integral! A final volume was recorded just last year in Tordesillas (San Pedro) and has been released together with the previous volumes.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on December 09, 2021, 06:33:18 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273951ef9df9cf1a562260ec47e)

Montserrat Torrent has completed her Arauxo integral! A final volume was recorded just last year in Tordesillas (San Pedro) and has been released together with the previous volumes.

Still active? She was born 1926.

Do you know any valid link for the Arauxo set?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Selig on December 09, 2021, 08:08:31 AM
I was surprised to learn she still plays concerts. And I found a couple articles (in Spanish) about her final disc, recorded at age 94.

The physical product seems currently only available directly from la Sociedad Española de Musicología (email for shipping outside of Spain: sedem@sedem.es).

But you may want to buy only the previously unreleased material digitally: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C2SC326/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Disc 6 should be the recently recorded disc, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but disc 5 may be previously unreleased too?

Disc 1 = Vol. I (Sevilla, El Salvador)
Disc 2 = Vol. II (Granada, San Jeronimo)
Disc 3 = Vol. III  (Almonacid de la Sierra)
Disc 4 = Vol. IV (all of the above)
Disc 5 = ?
Disc 6 = Tordesillas, San Pedro
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on December 09, 2021, 11:22:45 AM
I was surprised to learn she still plays concerts. And I found a couple articles (in Spanish) about her final disc, recorded at age 94.

The physical product seems currently only available directly from la Sociedad Española de Musicología (email for shipping outside of Spain: sedem@sedem.es).

But you may want to buy only the previously unreleased material digitally: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C2SC326/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Disc 6 should be the recently recorded disc, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but disc 5 may be previously unreleased too?

Disc 1 = Vol. I (Sevilla, El Salvador)
Disc 2 = Vol. II (Granada, San Jeronimo)
Disc 3 = Vol. III  (Almonacid de la Sierra)
Disc 4 = Vol. IV (all of the above)
Disc 5 = ?
Disc 6 = Tordesillas, San Pedro

Thanks for this. It seems to be mp3 download from Amazon. Do you know if it is the highest mp3 quality? Otherwise I am not convinced, that it is suitable for organ music.

And do you know how La Sociedad Española de Musicología wants a transfer of money to take place? Paypal? Creditcard?
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: Mandryka on December 09, 2021, 12:25:10 PM
Thanks for this. It seems to be mp3 download from Amazon. Do you know if it is the highest mp3 quality? Otherwise I am not convinced, that it is suitable for organ music.

And do you know how La Sociedad Española de Musicología wants a transfer of money to take place? Paypal? Creditcard?

These things are also on Qobuz - and here

https://www.sedem.es/es/catalogo/producto.asp?id=301
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: (: premont :) on December 09, 2021, 12:51:23 PM
These things are also on Qobuz - and here

https://www.sedem.es/es/catalogo/producto.asp?id=301

Thanks. I have sent La Sociedad Española de Musicología a mail to ask if they post to my country and - if they do - how they want the transfer of money to take place.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 09, 2021, 06:32:32 PM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273951ef9df9cf1a562260ec47e)

Looks like I chose a good time to start listening to 17C Spanish organ music  :)

Montserrat Torrent has completed her Arauxo integral! A final volume was recorded just last year in Tordesillas (San Pedro) and has been released together with the previous volumes.

Audio quality seems to be a little outdated, sort of like the Ayarra set. Can't comment much on the playing. I have a feeling that later Iberian organs (starting 18th century) tend to be a little more faceless and not as colorful as earlier ones, they got too distracted making horizontal trompetas.
Title: Re: Cabezón, Arauxo, Cabanilles etc etc
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on December 09, 2021, 07:48:22 PM
Listened more to it and I'm starting to like it, as expected from a 94 year old, Montserrat Torrent isn't the most agile but still has very interesting ideas and registrations. Overall very calm and subtle. The audio quality is actually quite good, I made the judgement too early just based on samples.