I will be moving on to other nationalities later (or maybe not, why disappoint my "fans"?) but right now I'm only about halfway through my basic list of Polish composers. So here's another one.
(http://www.polonia-nova.com/grafika/Panufnik7.bmp)
He was a concert pianist as a young man, and played in a piano duet with Witold Lutoslawski during World War II (Lutoslawski's Paganini Variations were written then). In 1954 he left Poland for good (he lived in England for the rest of his life), and his name was on the censor's index until 1977.
Generally I'm not too fond of his music (I find it too contrived) but I do have a soft spot for two pieces: Autumn Music (1962) and Lullaby (1947).
Maciek
Quote from: MrOsa on April 18, 2007, 12:46:37 PM
I will be moving on to other nationalities later (or maybe not, why disappoint my "fans"?) but right now I'm only about halfway through my basic list of Polish composers. So here's another one.
(http://www.polonia-nova.com/grafika/Panufnik7.bmp)
He was a concert pianist as a young man, and played in a piano duet with Witold Lutoslawski during World War II (Lutoslawski's Paganini Variations were written then). In 1954 he left Poland for good (he lived in England for the rest of his life), and his name was on the censor's index until 1977.
Generally I'm not too fond of his music (I find it too contrived) but I do have a soft spot for two pieces: Autumn Music (1962) and Lullaby (1947).
Maciek
I happen to like this chap.. I like the following:
Arbor Cosmica
Sinfonia Sacra
Piano Concerto
Violin Concerto
Suite of ancient Polish air and dances
Autumn Music
Heroic overture
Nocturne
Sinfonia Rustica
Tragic Overture
I agree with Robert. A charming disc is "Homage to Polish Music" on Naxos (but maybe it is the same as Robert's 'Suite of ancient Polish air and dances'). His Sinfonia Sacra is an impressive work.
X
Could I have some general idea of what his music sounds like, and pointers towards what to listen, which performances! :)
I only have one Panufnik CD, but it's a cracker.
Panufnik - Sinfonia mistica; Sinfonia di sfere
I quote from the AllMusic database:
---------------------
AllClassicalGuide:
Sir Andrzej Panufnik
Birth Sep 24, 1914 in Warsaw
Death Oct 27, 1991 in Twickenham
Period Years Active
Modern 1934-1991
Biography by Roy Brewer
Andrzej Panufnik was living proof that genius is exportable. Without compromising his Polish roots, he became a British citizen, and eventually reached full stature as a composer in his adopted country, but it was not an easy transition.
Son of a leading violinmaker, he studied with Sikorski at the Warsaw Conservatory and Weingartner in Vienna. After the Nazi invasion of Poland, he kept the creative spark alive in the Polish underground, where he became a friend of Witold Lutoslawski and was conductor of the Krakow Philharmonic Orchestra from 1945 to 1946. His first serious work, the Tragic Overture, composed in 1944, was followed in 1949 by Homage to Chopin, for soprano and piano (or — an early example of Panufnik's readiness to encourage freedom of musical expression — for flute and strings).
By 1954, Panufnik was Poland's leading composer, but Russian domination was making artistic freedom impossible; in 1956, while on a recording trip to Switzerland, he boarded a flight to London with no intention of returning to his native country. For some years, he was treated coldly by the British musical intelligentsia. His style was neither traditionally tonal nor fashionably serial; but it certainly sounded "un-British," and for nine years, none of his music was broadcast by the BBC. (American audiences were to prove more responsive).
At his home in Twickenham near the River Thames, Panufnik continued to work on symphonies constructed from small cells of two or three notes arranged in geometric forms, somewhat akin to Webern. By the end of his life, Panufnik had written ten symphonies, including Sinfonia Elegiaca, premiered in Boston in 1957 by Stokowski.
Much of his work reflects the sufferings of the war and its aftermath. It is easy to see why Panufnik would not have survived as an artist under a Stalinist dictatorship. The composer exacted his own bleak revenge: Katyn Epitaph (again premiered by Stokowski in 1968) exposed the massacre of 15,000 Polish officers executed on Stalin's orders. Sinfonia Votiva (premiered in Boston by Seiji Ozawa in 1982) celebrates the popular uprising against Communist rule in the form of a votive offering to the "black Madonna," a statue in Gdansk where the first blows for Polish freedom were struck. After the solo cadenza that opens the Violin Concerto written in 1972 for Yehudi Menuhin, the soloist is (unusually) allowed to decide both the tempo and overall interpretation of the whole work, perhaps yet another symbol of the freedom Panufnik had demonstrated by his own self-exile.
After the collapse of Communism in Poland, Panufnik's reputation there was quickly re-established, and his music became part of the militant modernism for which the country was noted in the liberalization that followed. In Britain, where he conducted the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra from 1957 to 1959, his music was gradually becoming better-known, with performances in London of the Symphony of the Spheres (1976) and Ninth Symphony (1987). The Tenth Symphony was premiered in Chicago in 1990.
When his last work, a cello concerto written for Rostropovich, was played in London in 1990, Panufnik had achieved full recognition in his adopted country. In 1987, he wrote a revealing biography called Composing Myself.
-------------------------
Indeed his music is often coloured by strong rhythms and Polish folksongs. The melodic material is often a repetition of the same four-note cell, he had a tendency to build pieces from similarly limited material.
Dark moods prevail, I think.
X
Well my friend you gave me a piece of info to digest, so thank you again. I keep doing that me thinks ;D
But I am not sure if this composer is my cup of tea, so is there a sort of compilation disc to find out?
Harry, I think you would like him. He is not atonal in the >:D atonal >:D style. It's rather an 0:) atonal 0:) style - very easily digestable.
I'd recommend the Tragic Overture, Autumn Music and Piano Concerto as good entry points. Definitely steer away form the Violin and Cello Concertos until you know you like his style. Some of the Symphonies are quite good but they're usually quite long, so it may be better to start somewhere else. I can't recommend any recordings, the ones I have are all out of print or even never-had-been-in-print ;D.
Maciek
I can recommend the cd on the Unicorn-Kanchana label (UKCD 2020) from, I think, 1989 with:
Concertino Festivo
Landscape
Katyn Epitaph
Concertino
Sinfonia Sacra
Panufnik himself is conducting the Monte Carlo Opera Orchestra. Not sure though whether this disc is still available or not.
X
Quote from: MrOsa on April 19, 2007, 03:19:21 AM
Harry, I think you would like him. He is not atonal in the >:D atonal >:D style. It's rather an 0:) atonal 0:) style - very easily digestable.
I'd recommend the Tragic Overture, Autumn Music and Piano Concerto as good entry points. Definitely steer away form the Violin and Cello Concertos until you know you like his style. Some of the Symphonies are quite good but they're usually quite long, so it may be better to start somewhere else. I can't recommend any recordings, the ones I have are all out of print or even never-had-been-in-print ;D.
Maciek
Thank you Maciek, I will compile a list, and put those works on it.
It will certainly give me a insight into this composer. :)
Quote from: XXXPawn on April 19, 2007, 03:24:57 AM
I can recommend the cd on the Unicorn-Kanchana label (UKCD 2020) from, I think, 1989 with:
Concertino Festivo
Landscape
Katyn Epitaph
Concertino
Sinfonia Sacra
Panufnik himself is conducting the Monte Carlo Opera Orchestra. Not sure though whether this disc is still available or not.
X
I will look around and see what is available, and if I find something I will post it here, and ask for advice!
Four I found, plus one already recommended before, so I will not post that one.
And two more, so advise would be appriciated. :)
The Piano Concerto I have is also with Ewa Poblocka (but different conductor ;D). She is excellent!!!
Quote from: MrOsa on April 19, 2007, 03:41:45 AM
The Piano Concerto I have is also with Ewa Poblocka (but different conductor ;D). She is excellent!!!
Fine, on the list then! :)
EMI have recently reissued this excellent introduction from old Unicorn recordings. Both symphonies are excellent;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panufnik-Sinfonia-concertante-rustica-sacra/dp/B000E5L84S/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-5773581-7374844?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176984488&sr=1-1
Quote from: Captain Haddock on April 19, 2007, 04:10:13 AM
EMI have recently reissued this excellent introduction from old Unicorn recordings. Both symphonies are excellent;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panufnik-Sinfonia-concertante-rustica-sacra/dp/B000E5L84S/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-5773581-7374844?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176984488&sr=1-1
Thanks, on my list too. :)
Quote from: Harry on April 19, 2007, 02:51:58 AM
Could I have some general idea of what his music sounds like, and pointers towards what to listen, which performances! :)
Good Morning Harry,
His music typically alternates between quiet and loud, slow and fast, meditative and exuberant....I cannot say it will be all to you liking. I would try the following three pieces to get an idea if he is your cup of tea...
Sinfonia Sacra
Heroic overture
Tragic overture
Quote from: XXXPawn on April 19, 2007, 03:24:57 AM
I can recommend the cd on the Unicorn-Kanchana label (UKCD 2020) from, I think, 1989 with:
Concertino Festivo
Landscape
Katyn Epitaph
Concertino
Sinfonia Sacra
Panufnik himself is conducting the Monte Carlo Opera Orchestra. Not sure though whether this disc is still available or not.
X
If you can find UKCD 2016 it has Sacra, Heroic and Tragic conducted by Horenstein which I would highly rec....
Quote from: Robert on April 19, 2007, 07:11:28 AM
Good Morning Harry,
His music typically alternates between quiet and loud, slow and fast, meditative and exuberant....I cannot say it will be all to you liking. I would try the following three pieces to get an idea if he is your cup of tea...
Sinfonia Sacra
Heroic overture
Tragic overture
Good morning my friend, afternoon for me! ;D
I will make a selection of all what is on offer, and then we will hear what it is all about.
Thanks Robert! :)
Quote from: Robert on April 19, 2007, 07:14:56 AM
If you can find UKCD 2016 it has Sacra, Heroic and Tragic conducted by Horenstein which I would highly rec....
Right, well my list is filled for now, I go a hunting! :)
Quote from: Harry on April 19, 2007, 03:38:50 AM
And two more, so advise would be appriciated. :)
The top one is much better than the bottom one. The only problem I have with the top one is the symphony sound is not that good it is in mono sound the nocturne and rhapsody are in full sound... Not a bad disc........
Well I will make my decision based on getting the music under my skin, sound is secondary Robert, in this case.........
The Interlude from the Old Polish Suite (on that recent Naxos CD) contains some of the most beautiful uses of suspensions I've ever heard - Its like Renaissance polyphony - not a single chord doesn;t have some kind of suspension on it.
The Cello Concerto is naturally the piece I know best. It was his last work, composed in 1991 for Rostropovich, and I think it is a really brilliant piece - There's a simplicity and directness that I find very appealing, even if some passages do sound a little studied and perhaps contrived. But I think thats being unkind. He was obviously hugely talented, and really represents a unique voice, which is all I ask for in a composer!
I've always like "early" Panufnik. (The later symphonies -those that I've heard :6-7-8- however, I find often dull,too long and pedantic in comparison.
The violin concerto is very beautiful .
Symphonia Sacra was recorded by the Concertgebouw Orchestra ( shortly before Panufnik's death) - on Nonesuch (coupled with the string orchestra suite Arbor cosmica). I think that that recording was made for a ballet on Dutch TV - a really horrible thing -where the symphony was combined with pop/rock music.
Sounds ghastly, Peter.
Quote from: Maciek on June 12, 2009, 04:19:06 AM
Page eight? PAGE EIGHT?! How on earth could we let this happen! The BEST thread on the board sank to page EIGHT of the Composer Discussion! :o :o :o :o
Panufnik was on p. 30. (Just saying.)
Quote from: MaciekBTW, the thread has fascinating statistics. Top posters:
Maciek 41 posts (42 with this one)
Symphonien 20
Xantus' Murrelet 1
Bonehelm 1
Oh, where do you rustle
these up? :)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 12, 2009, 05:37:16 AM
Oh, where do you rustle these up? :)
Oh, I think I'd be embarrassed to say. (Let's just say I had a
bit of time on my hands...)
I withdraw the question, your worship.
Is the numbering system (beginning with his third, as the original nos.1 and 2 seem to be permenently lost?) spurious or usable for the purposes of digital media tagging?
I will give the actual symphonies their titles alone, but to make them simpler to find (and to make the album names less lengthy), is the numbering system Wikipedia uses used by anyone (such as writers on his music) other than the editor of that WP page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Panufnik#Orchestral)? The indication that the 10th has no title, I suppose may confirm it - much like Vaughan Williams retroactively titling his first three, but generally CDs seem to simply use the descriptive names rather than the numbers.
Quote from: Lethe on January 05, 2011, 05:41:26 PM
Is the numbering system (beginning with his third, as the original nos.1 and 2 seem to be permenently lost?) spurious or usable for the purposes of digital media tagging?
I will give the actual symphonies their titles alone, but to make them simpler to find (and to make the album names less lengthy), is the numbering system Wikipedia uses used by anyone (such as writers on his music) other than the editor of that WP page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Panufnik#Orchestral)? The indication that the 10th has no title, I suppose may confirm it - much like Vaughan Williams retroactively titling his first three, but generally CDs seem to simply use the descriptive names rather than the numbers.
Actually, even with the current numbering system, Panufnik still has 10 extant symphonies. The Sinfonia Rustica (now No. 1) and Sinfonia Elegiaca (now No. 2) are called by the nicknames to distinguish them from the two lost symphonies that precede them. The numbering system on Wikipedia and Boosey are consistently used on all the CDs that I have seen with them on them, and all of the symphonies have been recorded. Still, it seems that most people don't use the numbers, but rather the nicknames. Given how many times he revised his symphonies, I am glad the names are used more.
I also prefer the names to numbers on an aesthetic level, but they aren't very helpful for cataloguing. Perhaps it is because the CDs I have access to are old issues, but the majority use the titles only - perhaps copying the format of the original vinyls they came from, prior to the composer's "clarification" by calling his tenth by a number and no title. I guess I'll proceed with using numbers for listing albums as the system is well-based (if not widely-used), but retain the titles (without numbers) for naming the pieces contained within.
I didn't know about the revisions, thanks for pointing this out.
Quote from: Lethe on January 05, 2011, 07:19:27 PM
I also prefer the names to numbers on an aesthetic level, but they aren't very helpful for cataloguing. Perhaps it is because the CDs I have access to are old issues, but the majority use the titles only - perhaps copying the format of the original vinyls they came from, prior to the composer's "clarification" by calling his tenth by a number and no title. I guess I'll proceed with using numbers for listing albums as the system is well-based (if not widely-used), but retain the titles (without numbers) for naming the pieces contained within.
I didn't know about the revisions, thanks for pointing this out.
For my cataloguing, I always put the date of composition (including revisions). I actually do this for all pieces without an opus number that I catalogue, particularly for contemporary music.
I'm in the process of becoming better acquainted with Panufnik's music. I have heard only one work in it's entirety and it was called Tragic Overture and what a, if may use the word in this context, rocking piece! That percussion section towards the end of the work just bangs away like a bunch of savage madmen. I love it! Anyway, I'm trying to gain more insight into his music by researching his and he's had quite a life.
Here's a list of his compositions:
Orchestral:
Symphonies
Symphony No. 1 (1939, lost 1944, reconstructed 1945, subsequently withdrawn and destroyed by the composer)
Symphony No. 2 (1941, lost 1944)
Sinfonia Rustica (Symphony No. 1) (1948, revised 1955)
Sinfonia Elegiaca (Symphony No. 2) (1957, revised 1966, incorporates material from the discarded Symphony of Peace)
Sinfonia Sacra (Symphony No. 3) (1963)
Sinfonia Concertante (Symphony No. 4), for flute, harp and small string orchestra (1973)
Sinfonia di Sfere (Symphony No. 5) (1974-75)
Sinfonia Mistica (Symphony No. 6) (1977)
Metasinfonia (Symphony No. 7), for solo organ, timpani and string orchestra (1978)
Sinfonia Votiva (Symphony No. 8;) (1981, revised 1984)
Symphony No. 9, Sinfonia di Speranza (1986, revised 1990)
Symphony No. 10 (1988, revised 1990)
Symphonic Variations (1935-36, lost 1944)
Symphonic Allegro (1936, lost 1944)
Symphonic Image (1936, lost 1944)
Little Overture (c. 1937, lost 1944)
Tragic Overture (1942, lost 1944, reconstructed 1945, revised 1955)
Divertimento for Strings (adapted from music by Felix Janiewicz, 1947, revised 1955)
Lullaby (1947, revised 1955)
Nocturne (1947, revised 1955)
Old Polish Suite, based on sixteenth and seventeenth century Polish works (1950, revised 1955)
Heroic Overture (1952, revised 1969)
Rhapsody (1956)
Polonia (1959)
Autumn Music, for three flutes, three clarinets, percussion, celesta, piano, harp, violas, cellos, and double basses (1962, revised 1965)
Landscape, for string orchestra (1962, revised 1965)
Jagiellonian Triptych, for string orchestra (based on early Polish works, 1966)
Katyń Epitaph (1967. revised 1969)
Concerto Festivo, for orchestra [without conductor] (1979)
Concertino, for timpani, percussion and string orchestra (1979-80)
Paean, for brass ensemble (1980)
Arbor Cosmica, for twelve string soloists or string orchestra (1983)
Harmony, for chamber orchestra (1989)
Concertante:
Concerto in modo antico, for solo trumpet, two harps, harpsichord and string orchestra [originally titled Koncert Gotycki, "Gothic Concerto"] (based on early Polish works, 1951, revised 1955)
Piano Concerto (1962, revised 1970, re-composed 1972, first movement Intrada added 1982)
Hommage à Chopin, for flute and small string orchestra (1966 arrangement of 1949 vocal work)
Violin Concerto (1971)
Bassoon Concerto (1985)
Cello Concerto (1991)
Vocal:
Psalm, for soloist, chorus and orchestra (1936, Panufnik's diploma piece, lost 1944)
Five Polish Peasant Songs, for sopranos or trebles, two flutes, two clarinets and bass clarinet (1940, lost 1944, reconstructed 1945, anonymous Polish text)
Four Underground Resistance Songs, for voice or unison voices and piano (1943-44, Polish text by Stanisław Ryszard Dobrowolski)
Hommage à Chopin, vocalises for soprano and piano, originally titled Suita Polska (1949, revised 1955)
Symphony of Peace, for chorus and orchestra (1951, subsequently withdrawn and not included in the composer's symphonic canon, setting of Polish text by Jarosław Iwaszkiewicz)
Song to the Virgin Mary, for unaccompanied chorus or six solo voices (1964, revised 1969, anonymous Latin text)
Universal Prayer, for soprano, alto, tenor and bass soloists, chorus, three harps and organ (1968-69, setting of English text by Alexander Pope)
Invocation for Peace, for trebles, two trumpets and two trombones (1972)
Winter Solstice, for soprano and baritone soloists, chorus, three trumpets, three trombones, timpani and glockenspiel (1972, English text by Camilla Jessel)
Love Song, for mezzo soprano and harp or piano (1976, optional string orchestra part added in 1991, setting of English text by Sir Philip Sidney)
Dreamscapes, for mezzo soprano and piano (1977, wordless)
Prayer to the Virgin of Skempe, for solo voice or unison chorus, organ and instrumental ensemble (1990, setting of Polish text by Jerzy Peterkiewicz)
Ballets:
While Panufnik's music has been used often for dance, two ballet scores were prepared by the composer using adaptations of existing works with new material.
Cain and Abel (1968, a reworking of Sinfonia Sacra and Tragic Overture with new material)
Miss Julie (1970, a reworking of Nocturne, Rhapsody, Autumn Music and Polonia with new material)
Chamber:
Classical Suite, for string quartet (1933, lost 1944)
Piano Trio (1934, lost 1944, reconstructed 1945, revised 1977)
Quintetto Accademico, for flute, oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon (1953, revised 1956, lost, was rediscovered in 1994)
Triangles, for three flutes and three cellos (1972)
String Quartet No. 1 (1976)
String Quartet No. 2 Messages (1980)
Song to the Virgin Mary, for string sextet (1987 arrangement of 1964 vocal work)
String Sextet Train of Thoughts (1987)
String Quartet No. 3 Wycinanki ("Paper Cuts") (1990)
Instrumental:
Variations, for piano (1933, lost 1944)
Twelve Miniature Studies, for piano, originally titled Circle of Fifths (1947, Book I revised 1955, Book II revised 1964)
Reflections, for piano (1968)
Pentasonata, for piano (1984)
Pieces for Young Players:
Two Lyric Pieces [1: woodwind and brass, 2: strings] (1963)
Thames Pageant, cantata for young players and singers (1969, English text by Camilla Jessel)
A Procession for Peace (1982-3)
Nice to see this thread bumped again. I am really anticipating the new releases in CPO's new Panufnik set. I think Łukasz Borowicz is a great, young conductor who is suited to the music (despite some interpretations on the set that don't live up to older predecessors). I really, really think that Metasinfonia and Sinfonia di Sfere, my two favorite symphonies (aside from Symphony No. 10) need new recordings. The only recording of Metasinfonia is only available on LP right now, and it has a few problems. It could be taken a bit faster, in my opinion, and there are some tuning problems with the timpani in it. Jennifer Bate is an excellent organist in it, though. As far as the Sinfonia di Sfere goes, the recording with Atherton would be hard to improve on, from an interpretative standpoint. It is excellently conducted, but I feel the age of the recording makes it suffer a bit. There are some things in the score that I think could be clearer, especially in the string parts. The modern recording of it on Ondine is extremely weak and has poorly chosen percussion instruments, in my opinion.
The pianist in me wants another recording of the complete piano works, but I really can't see them getting played any time soon. Perhaps I should them? Heh. I really do like the Pentasonata and Reflections.
Quote from: lescamil on July 19, 2011, 10:14:15 PM
Nice to see this thread bumped again. I am really anticipating the new releases in CPO's new Panufnik set. I think Łukasz Borowicz is a great, young conductor who is suited to the music (despite some interpretations on the set that don't live up to older predecessors). I really, really think that Metasinfonia and Sinfonia di Sfere, my two favorite symphonies (aside from Symphony No. 10) need new recordings. The only recording of Metasinfonia is only available on LP right now, and it has a few problems. It could be taken a bit faster, in my opinion, and there are some tuning problems with the timpani in it. Jennifer Bate is an excellent organist in it, though. As far as the Sinfonia di Sfere goes, the recording with Atherton would be hard to improve on, from an interpretative standpoint. It is excellently conducted, but I feel the age of the recording makes it suffer a bit. There are some things in the score that I think could be clearer, especially in the string parts. The modern recording of it on Ondine is extremely weak and has poorly chosen percussion instruments, in my opinion.
The pianist in me wants another recording of the complete piano works, but I really can't see them getting played any time soon. Perhaps I should them? Heh. I really do like the Pentasonata and Reflections.
I'm just going to collect the CPO recordings as they come for now. I'm not going to overdo it on Panufnik as I have on other composers in the past.
One composer I am surprised not to have seen mentioned among the highways and byways of this site is Andrzej Panufnik. 2014 is his centenary year. He was the most highly respected composer in Poland until his defection in 1954. In Poland he became a non-person. In Britain he was virtually ignored as he was not modern enough. I have liked his music for many years, but after his death in 1991 he has slipped off everybody's radar, it seems apart from the cpo label, currently releasing his orchestral music - which includes 10 symphonies, a violin concerto for Yehudi Menuhin and a cello concerto for Mstislav Rostropovich. He even wrote a piece for the LSO for their 75th anniversary without a conductor! He wrote about it:
"Using a system of cues, I composed this work to be performed, on this particular festive occasion, without a conductor. My idea of a conductorless piece is not a gimmick; it is my highest compliment to the superb virtuosity of the London Symphony Orchestra."
Sadly, the LSO has not returned the compliment by programming much of his music since his death. Nor do I think Boosey & Hawkes have championed him much either. I guess he isn't a "best-seller".
If you don't already know his work, I would suggest either the Sinfonia Sacra (No. 3) or Arbor Cosmica as a good starting point. His music is built up from small cells. There is a sense of something tonal (though it is not written in any particular key). His musical thought is as rigorous as Webern, but with the humanity of Berg. I hate trying to sell it in this way, but I do want more converts to the cause!
He had two children, Roxanna who has made her way in the classical field, and Jeremy (Jem) who works in a different musical field altogether, which, I confess is not to my taste!
There is precious little on YouTube, so I don't know how to get you to hear his music, apart from urging you to seek out the CDs, downloads, getting his autobiography "Composing Myself" or CDs or LPs second hand.
Hey Cassandra, there's already a thread on Panufnik here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,388.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,388.0.html)
I'm new to this site and couldn't find anything. You old hands know all the tricks!
Quote from: cassandra on July 23, 2011, 07:12:02 AM
I'm new to this site and couldn't find anything. You old hands know all the tricks!
It's okay Cassandra, when I first joined I made many of the same mistakes. Some composers are hard to find in searches because their names are associated with other words like, for example,
Schoenberg's Sheen,
Leo's Lair or
Salonen's Helix.
Not quite sure which thread to post in now :-\
Better be the old one..with all respect to cassandra.
(Polite suggestion-why not merge the two threads for convenience?)
I entirely agree with what lescamil says :)
I am very much looking forward to the forthcoming issuing of Metasinfonia, which I haven't heard for many, many years.
I recall a thread about Panufnik on the Chandos forum some time ago suggesting that Chandos record the symphonies. The response from a record industry 'insider' was that no record company would look at this because the cds wouldn't sell! Well that doesn't seem to have stopped CPO(God bless them!). Nor indeed has it stopped Chandos currently giving us all the Violin Concerti of Grazyna Bacewicz!!
Panufnik is just the sort of serious, tough but not too rebarbative composer I like ;D ;D
Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease 'o' gods of GMG merge these two Threads before my eyeballs explode!!!! :o :o
Seriously,... this will constipate me. :-X
Yeah,don't worry about it,Cassandra. 'Ee's up 'ere and 'ees down there (that's the one!).
Oh,and by the way,what IS Schoenberg's sheen?!!! (Shome mishtake,ed?!).
(I must admit,I never knew Bach had a bungalow until I joined the gmg. Learn something new every day!!!)
Just thought I'd resurrect this thread by saying that the 4th volume of CPO's Panufnik survey has come out, and I have already snapped it up. I haven't listened to it all, but I did make sure to check out the recording of Symphony No. 10 on it. This is the most detailed recording of the three commercially available recordings out there. Borowicz just shows how excellent of a conductor he is here. I think the Presto section could be a hair faster (like Schwarz), but it is still an excellent recording that I think does what Panufnik intended it to do - it is a celebration of the modern orchestra. That ending adagio with the harp, a few woodwinds, and divisi strings is simply sublime. I will possibly report back on the other two symphonies featured. I am excited to hear the Sinfonia Elegiaca here, which is the first recording of the final version (an earlier version was recorded on the Louisville Orchestra series), and the first ever stereo recording of the work. Sinfonia Sacra already has a ton of recordings (well, a ton for a Panufnik work), so this will be last. There's something about that percussion laden Vision III (with that awesome timpani glissando) that keeps me coming back to it, heh.
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 23, 2011, 02:21:36 PMI recall a thread about Panufnik on the Chandos forum some time ago suggesting that Chandos record the symphonies. The response from a record industry 'insider' was that no record company would look at this because the cds wouldn't sell! Well that doesn't seem to have stopped CPO(God bless them!).
Ha! My sentiments exactly. I bought
Volume 4 of the CPO series tonight. Can't wait to hear it. 8)
I like Tragic Overture as well, quite a banger of a piece. Haven't really familiarized myself enough with his other works, of which I have a few.
I have recently had the opportunity to download the premiere performance(or at least a very early performance from 1951) of the Symphony of Peace, for reciter, chorus and orchestra. This is the work which Panufnik withdrew and from which he used material for the Sinfonia Elegiaca. Panufnik evidently regarded the Symphony of Peace as too long and unbalanced. This despite the protests of Leopold Stokowski who gave the work its first performance in the USA in Detroit. In fact the Symphony is only around 28 minutes long and is to my ears a most beautiful and moving work.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)
Dip Your Ears, No. 114
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004P96X08.01.L.jpg)
A.Panufnik , Sinf.Mistica et al.,
L.Borowicz / Polish RSO
cpo
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/04/dip-your-ears-no-114.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/04/dip-your-ears-no-114.html)
Quote from: jlaurson on April 06, 2012, 04:10:08 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)
Dip Your Ears, No. 114
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004P96X08.01.L.jpg)
A.Panufnik , Sinf.Mistica et al.,
L.Borowicz / Polish RSO
cpo
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/04/dip-your-ears-no-114.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/04/dip-your-ears-no-114.html)
Love your comment on the infamously obtuse, opaque, and in general incomprehensible liner notes from CPO! ;D
Quote from: Cato on April 06, 2012, 04:56:43 PM
Love your comment on the infamously obtuse, opaque, and in general incomprehensible liner notes from CPO! ;D
In that case, get a grip on this:
"Threnodies of the strings seek despairingly to rise above the formless depths of blackly swirling masses of sound, but are interrupted again and again by powerful surges of unsettling brutality. The formal strictness of this gigantic work, with its three themes, its three-part formal layout and its powerful triple fugue exactly at its mid-point is also the expression of a pitiless implacability from which there can be no escape. The few gentle insertions - ethereal sounds of seraphic euphony - are no more than mirages in the sea of despair, sensory illusions in the apocalypse of the present: the expected catastrophe has arrived and has effortlessly surpassed the wildest expectations. The times are marked by unprecedented cruelty and lawlessness with millions of people perishing through wars and starvation. Annihilation is final and complete."
From the cd (not CPO) booklet notes for Piano Trios by Leonid Sabaneev.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 06, 2012, 05:14:01 PM
In that case, get a grip on this:
"Threnodies of the strings seek despairingly to rise above the formless depths of blackly swirling masses of sound, but are interrupted again and again by powerful surges of unsettling brutality. The formal strictness of this gigantic work, with its three themes, its three-part formal layout and its powerful triple fugue exactly at its mid-point is also the expression of a pitiless implacability from which there can be no escape. The few gentle insertions - ethereal sounds of seraphic euphony - are no more than mirages in the sea of despair, sensory illusions in the apocalypse of the present: the expected catastrophe has arrived and has effortlessly surpassed the wildest expectations. The times are marked by unprecedented cruelty and lawlessness with millions of people perishing through wars and starvation. Annihilation is final and complete."
From the cd (not CPO) booklet notes for Piano Trios by Leonid Sabaneev.
I meet your "threnodies of the strings" and raise you "
a primary sensitivity which would be doomed to the fatal lacerations of intensity in all its implacability, were it not entirely surrounded, enfolded, so that it registers any "impact" only as filtered, sifted. It is not yet a "skin" capable of a certain degree of self-defense." That, if you didn't figure it out naturally, was about Schubert's piano music, specifically that for four hands. Here, to clarify: "
Schubert never stopped emphasizing his dream of "community." He was haunted by it throughout his life. He expresses it directly, consciously in the guise of his almost visceral attachment to all his "brothers and sisters," in a communion of the soul incorporating either explicitly or as a watermark all his ineluctable need for creativity."
Incidentally from the bloody best recording of the Fantasie in f-minor I've every heard!
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/schubert-for-two.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/schubert-for-two.html)
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 06, 2012, 05:14:01 PM
In that case, get a grip on this:
"Threnodies of the strings seek despairingly to rise above the formless depths of blackly swirling masses of sound, but are interrupted again and again by powerful surges of unsettling brutality. The formal strictness of this gigantic work, with its three themes, its three-part formal layout and its powerful triple fugue exactly at its mid-point is also the expression of a pitiless implacability from which there can be no escape. The few gentle insertions - ethereal sounds of seraphic euphony - are no more than mirages in the sea of despair, sensory illusions in the apocalypse of the present: the expected catastrophe has arrived and has effortlessly surpassed the wildest expectations. The times are marked by unprecedented cruelty and lawlessness with millions of people perishing through wars and starvation. Annihilation is final and complete."
From the cd (not CPO) booklet notes for Piano Trios by Leonid Sabaneev.
WOW! All I can say is: WOW! And written without a hint of irony!
So does the music match the description? I expect the piano explodes at the end, along with some spontaneous human combustion among the performers! :o
Quote from: jlaurson on April 06, 2012, 05:58:01 PM
I meet your "threnodies of the strings" and raise you "a primary sensitivity which would be doomed to the fatal lacerations of intensity in all its implacability, were it not entirely surrounded, enfolded, so that it registers any "impact" only as filtered, sifted. It is not yet a "skin" capable of a certain degree of self-defense." That, if you didn't figure it out naturally, was about Schubert's piano music, specifically that for four hands. Here, to clarify: "Schubert never stopped emphasizing his dream of "community." He was haunted by it throughout his life. He expresses it directly, consciously in the guise of his almost visceral attachment to all his "brothers and sisters," in a communion of the soul incorporating either explicitly or as a watermark all his ineluctable need for creativity."
Incidentally from the bloody best recording of the Fantasie in f-minor I've every heard!
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/schubert-for-two.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/schubert-for-two.html)
Worthy of a trip to the woodshed of "Cato's Grammar Grumble" for a good whipping! 0:)
Quote from: MDL on April 19, 2007, 02:56:47 AM
I only have one Panufnik CD, but it's a cracker.
Panufnik - Sinfonia mistica; Sinfonia di sfere
This, and the EMI disc of 3 Symphonies = 1,3,4,5,6,... seem very tempting.
Can anyone give me the skinny?,... some say bombast early, dullness later... I've heard the
Nonesuch (No.3)disc many moons ago, don't recall being all that fond of it,... I think I heard the
Conifer (No.9 or 10)disc, I think it seemed like a long 40mins.?,... I've always had the
Hyperion(No.8), with Sessions, and I will pull it tomorrow,... but Maciek called his music contrived, and I tend to agree... I could be swayed by a Masterpiece. I'd be willing to try 9-10 again,... that Atherton disc (5-6)...
That CPO Cycle seems largely unneeded, unless sound is the issue?
Otherwise, Autumn Music seems to be it?
I wouldn't say you could say that any recording of Panufnik's music is unneeded, but many of the symphonies needed modern recordings, or, in the case of the Sinfonia Elegiaca (the final version), a recording, period. The Metasinfonia wasn't even available on CD previously. I personally have a huge affinity for his music, but I would also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. It deserves a try, though.
Quote from: lescamil on January 13, 2013, 11:44:56 PM
I wouldn't say you could say that any recording of Panufnik's music is unneeded, but many of the symphonies needed modern recordings, or, in the case of the Sinfonia Elegiaca (the final version), a recording, period. The Metasinfonia wasn't even available on CD previously. I personally have a huge affinity for his music, but I would also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. It deserves a try, though.
aaaand?,... gimme yer Top3!! I'll be pulling out the 'Votiva' today.
Quote from: lescamil on January 13, 2013, 11:44:56 PM
I wouldn't say you could say that any recording of Panufnik's music is unneeded, but many of the symphonies needed modern recordings, or, in the case of the Sinfonia Elegiaca (the final version), a recording, period. The Metasinfonia wasn't even available on CD previously. I personally have a huge affinity for his music, but I would also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. It deserves a try, though.
I listened to the Hyperion 'Votiva': it's such a subtle piece, that I had completely forgotten how it went. As 'New Music', I liked it, sounding to me like a secular Messiaen, with perhaps some Dutilleux (isn't HE the 'Secular Messiaen'? haha),... Ohana?,... anyhow, Part I was very spare and atmospheric, though Ozawa and Boston (and Hyperion engineers) need to be given proper credit. Part II was quite a bunch of cacophonous brass and percussion fanfares that won me over by the end: I especially liked the wash of cymbals, another engineering triumph.
I'm now finishing
No.10(I'm not sure which recording on YT). To me, it sounds like Part II of 'Votiva' continued, a very aggressive, stabbing allegro, that almost winds down a la Pettersson, though not as melodically ornamented. I started not to like it, but, its short length (16mins. divided by four 'movements'... attacca...), and the winding down... maybe also like a much much cooler Nielsen 'Inextinguishable'?
I'm going to go give either 3 or 9 a shot next.
Quote from: lescamil on January 13, 2013, 11:44:56 PM
I wouldn't say you could say that any recording of Panufnik's music is unneeded, but many of the symphonies needed modern recordings, or, in the case of the Sinfonia Elegiaca (the final version), a recording, period. The Metasinfonia wasn't even available on CD previously. I personally have a huge affinity for his music, but I would also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. It deserves a try, though.
I listened to the first three parts of
No.3('Sacra'), which starts with a fanfare reminiscent of Janacek's 'Sokol' Fanfare, followed by what sounds like the string music to Ives's
Unanswered Question. Again, in the third part, I hear again those same stabbing rhythms that I heard in both 8 and 10.
I'm now in the middle of
No.9 ('Sinfonia della Speranza'). AGAIN! :o I've heard the same rhythms as in all the other previous works. I'm going to call it the 'Tear Down This Wall'-Allegro style. I'm hearing a low wattage
Robert Simpson (no cut, just not as much tension), I'm hearing the "'80s' Symphonic Sound" that I've heard in many other 'Symphonies' composed around the same time. I might like 9 better if it were Tracked. ::)
Oh, I just had a Composer comparison that would have brought it all together... brain fart.
There is that one Composer... the Tblisi guy... 7 Symphonies, CPO and Nonesuch... Maximalist, starts with a 'K'... even though that's not of whom I was thinking.
Yea, it's very... Reaganesque-Era,... Panufnik says the 9th is about Hope, but it sounds pretty East Bloc to me: grayness punctuated by vaguely 'People-Against-Oppression' fanfares...
So far, it's the 8th for me, it seems to unify all his musical and political concerns into One Nice Postcard.
I think the
Atherton recording holds the most promise for me, perhaps followed by the
EMI 1/3/4. Still haven't heard
Autumn Music.
Have you heard the Schwarz on JVC?
The Schwarz disk on JVC is one of the best Panufnik disks. All of the performances are excellent, especially the Symphony No. 10 and Autumn Music. You should like Autumn Music. It has the same form as a lot of his mature works, but the musical ideas are quite different. It is a nice mix of his mature style and the immature style you see in the Violin Concerto and Sinfonia Elegiaca.
Also, I don't see Panufnik as being similar to Kancheli (the Georgian composer you are thinking of). Kancheli is a much more static composer, and Panufnik's music has much more movement and development.
A friend played me the Lullaby yesterday and I was blown away. One of the most gorgeous yet haunting pieces I have heard in ages, almost reminded me of a Schnittke-esque atmosphere. Loved it.
Listened to Autumn Music since, also lovely, and the Tragic Overture which was very exciting with that relentless rhythmic motif. Very excited to continue exploring..
Quote from: madaboutmahler on October 31, 2014, 09:17:04 AM
A friend played me the Lullaby yesterday and I was blown away. One of the most gorgeous yet haunting pieces I have heard in ages, almost reminded me of a Schnittke-esque atmosphere. Loved it.
Listened to Autumn Music since, also lovely, and the Tragic Overture which was very exciting with that relentless rhythmic motif. Very excited to continue exploring..
Autumn Music is my favorite work by Panufnik. I think he's an incredibly uneven composer. I tend to like his earlier works a lot more than his later works, which tend to rely too heavily on some kind of gimmick. Not to my taste at all.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 31, 2014, 06:57:49 PM
Autumn Music is my favorite work by Panufnik. I think he's an incredibly uneven composer. I tend to like his earlier works a lot more than his later works, which tend to rely too heavily on some kind of gimmick. Not to my taste at all.
Ah! Do you know the Lullaby, John? I was so stunned by this piece.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on November 01, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
Ah! Do you know the Lullaby, John? I was so stunned by this piece.
Yep,
Lullaby is a nice work indeed, Daniel. It's a late 40s work, so it's apart of his early oeuvre.
Andrzej Panufnik : Born in Warsaw on 24th September 1914 (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/andrzej-panufnik-born-in-warsaw-on-24th-september-1914/)
(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cropped-mk2.png)
"In all my works, I attempt to achieve a true balance between feeling and intellect, heart and brain, impulse and design."
Andrzej Panufnik is one of the most important and original symphonic composers of the 2nd half of the 20th century. His output includes ten symphonies, with Centenary commissions from Sir Georg Solti for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Seiji Ozawa for Boston.
(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/panufnik2.jpg?w=330&h=399)
RTRH
(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/mk2-e1442935996117.jpg?w=50) (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/andrzej-panufnik-born-in-warsaw-on-24th-september-1914/)
(http://s20.postimg.org/i8q2uioks/LP_Front_r.jpg) ç1975 (http://s20.postimg.org/guyfz7pbg/LP_Back_r.jpg)
The last work written by Panufnik before leaving Poland is the short, artistically not very distinguished Quintet for Woodwinds. Composed in 1952 it was Performed in Warsaw in 1953 and published by PWM Edition in 1954, however, after moving to England, Panufnik did not include it in the catalog of his compositions, and it was not until after his death That his wife, looking through his papers, came across the manuscript of the work with a changed title - Quintetto Accademico (the change of title would confirm That the composer regarded the piece as a kind of exercise). The score and the voices were prepared for publication by Panufnik's daughter, Roxanna, and in 1999 the quintet was published by the composer's publisher, Boosey & Hawkes.
Quintetto Accademico is written for flute, oboe, two clarinets and bassoon; it Consists of three movements: Prelude, Old Polish Triptych and Postlude. One again, the composer uses themes from early Polish music. Like the Old Polish Suite and Concerto in Modo Antico , the quintet has a simplified texture, archaizing harmony and simple, diatonic melody. The outer movements are figurative and use similar musical material. When it comes to the formal structure of the piece, the composer Provides a formal "framework" for it (a device he often used in his works), Minogue in the last two bars of the Postlude exactly the same material from the first two bars of the Prelude, but reversed ( "mirror reflection").
The use of mirror symmetry testifies to the composer's growing interest in the possibilities provided by the Principles of symmetry in the construction of musical works. With time symmetry Became the basic determinants of the formal as well as the melodic-harmonic structure of Panufnik's works.
LINK for low-quality sound file: http://nina.pd.e54-po.insyscd.net/panufnik-kwintet-na-flet-oboj-2-klarnety-i-fagot-pc-966.m4a
original title: Quintetto academico
1. Quasi Preludio
2. Old Polish Triptych
3. Postlude
year of completion: 1952
instrumentation: flute, oboe, 2 clarinets, bassoon
performer: Polska Orkiestra Radiowa
genre/form:quintet
category:instrumental music, chamber works
musician:Henryk Bartnikowski (flute), Ludwik Szymański (oboe), Ludwik Kurkiewicz (clarinet), Michał Podsiadły (clarinet), Benedykt Górecki (bassoon)
producer: Polskie Radio
production year: 1954
premiere: Warsaw, 1953
The (early) piano trio by Panufnik is also pretty good! Click to enlarge - the info came from Google books or Amazon - I forget now, it's been a few weeks. ::)
(http://s20.postimg.org/ymgjkg2ct/Info_Piano_Trio_Panufnik.jpg)
I've recently learned that Krzysztof Rzączyński's documentary My Father, the Iron Curtain and Me is available on the NInA Panufnik site ("available" in the sense "viewable online for free"):
http://ninateka.pl/kolekcje/en/panufnik/movie/tata-zza-zelaznej-kurtyny-krzysztof-rzaczynski (http://ninateka.pl/kolekcje/en/panufnik/movie/tata-zza-zelaznej-kurtyny-krzysztof-rzaczynski)
I found it very moving and it's one of the best documentaries about musicians that I have seen lately. I think Jem (Jeremy) Panufnik is an excellent narrator, one whom it is easy to empathize with. This isn't by any means a straightforward biographical documentary - a lot of it is devoted to the exploration of a father son relationship and it also touches on general questions of the meaning of art and creativity.
So a heads up. NInA is on the verge of being dismantled or at least reorganized, and I've heard all sorts of speculation about the future of these sites, so there's no telling how long the film will stay up there. (And even if nothing much changes at NInA, there's still no telling how long that particular film will be available on their site.)
Checking on recordings, I found this on Amazon:
[asin]B010GJTWNA[/asin]
The "product description" also had one of the more ridiculous sentences I have ever seen about any work:
Quote...The symphony achieves its supreme sound quality through the combination of various groups of instruments, with Panufnik allowing each grouping to convey humanity and an intense, profound musicianship.
??? ??? ???
Sigh! So the composer "allows" the orchestra to do those curious things!
Oh, and on the PolMIC Panufnik site you can listen to the Sinfonia Sacra along with the score. There's an annoying, distracting pink stripe that was probably meant to be synchronized with the music, but with a little practice it's possible to ignore it:
http://www.panufnik.polmic.pl/index.php/en/sinfonia-sacra (http://www.panufnik.polmic.pl/index.php/en/sinfonia-sacra)
(I know you can sometimes get this sort of thing on Youtube, but with contemporary music I doubt the legality of most of those videos.)
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 01, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Yep, Lullaby is a nice work indeed, Daniel. It's a late 40s work, so it's apart of his early oeuvre.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on November 01, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
Ah! Do you know the Lullaby, John? I was so stunned by this piece.
Seems very advanced for the 40s ???... not the "piece", but all the "fuzz" composed around it... it definitely has a hallucinatory quality... yes, very S ???chnittke... quite bizasrre... what?, a lullaby for the devil??????
cree=pee!!
checking out Autumn Music now... sounds "normal", ha
Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2017, 10:07:30 AM
Seems very advanced for the 40s ???... not the "piece", but all the "fuzz" composed around it... it definitely has a hallucinatory quality... yes, very S ???chnittke... quite bizasrre... what?, a lullaby for the devil??????
cree=pee!!
checking out Autumn Music now... sounds "normal", ha
ok, he lost me at the introduction of the typewriter/woodpecker percussion :(... now I'm in the "low piano tone" section... massive bloodloss of enthusiasm now... draining quickly.... makes me want to hear some Ives :laugh:
Quote from: Cato on April 26, 2017, 01:22:18 PM
The "product description" also had one of the more ridiculous sentences I have ever seen about any work:
Actually, that's a more or less direct quote from the composer's notes to the score. Of course, the crux is the "more or less", as the sense has been obfuscated, disfigured through some slight alterations to the text and the removal of the original context. A bit odd not to credit the composer, anyway.
Here's how it went originally (I'm quoting from the Boosey and Hawkes site - http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076 (http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076), IIRC the score only had the first paragraph? - I'll check in a minute):
QuoteMy first thought was to write a show-piece with virtuoso pyrotechnics to take fullest advantage of the celebrated technical possibilities of the Orchestra. However, I eventually decided that the best homage to these brilliant players would be a symphony which, through various combinations of groups of instruments, would demonstrate their supreme sound quality, show off their collective musicianship and humanity, and their ability to convey their intense and profound feeling.
thing with panufnik is, I can always go from one unsatisfying experience with him, to another, and another... I feel like it's half way between two unsatisfying poles, taking this and that and this (MI's "gimmicks"?)...
All I've ever kept of his is the 'Votiva', mostly because it's with that Sessions, on Hyperion,... and I went about trying to find more that was like that, until, probably documented in this Thread, I realized 'Votiva' might be the best it got for me :(
Now listening to Symphony 3... Solti... is this the 'Sacra' that was on Nonesuch? (another highly touted album that just poured off of me like milk)... yea, I remember this opening fanfare, brutal allegro, religious ending...bing bam boom... 1 2 3... A B C...
is Panufnik too "easy" for us meat eaters? There's definitely something ALWAYS missing... it's like he should be Penderecki, or Dutilleux, or Lutoslawski, or someone, something like that, but... The Grande Meh...
too soft... too noisy... too complex... too pat...
yukk... do not want...
broccoli
Quote from: Maciek on April 27, 2017, 10:15:49 AM
Actually, that's a more or less direct quote from the composer's notes to the score. Of course, the crux is the "more or less", as the sense has been obfuscated, disfigured through some slight alterations to the text and the removal of the original context. A bit odd not to credit the composer, anyway.
Here's how it went originally (I'm quoting from the Boosey and Hawkes site - http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076 (http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076), IIRC the score only had the first paragraph? - I'll check in a minute):
NOW it makes much more sense! The word "homage" takes care of it all! 0:)
Quote from: Maciek on April 27, 2017, 10:15:49 AM
(I'm quoting from the Boosey and Hawkes site - http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076 (http://www.boosey.com/shop/work-info/Andrzej-Panufnik-Symphony-10/6076), IIRC the score only had the first paragraph? - I'll check in a minute):
I just checked: the printed edition of the score doesn't have the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of the Composer's Notes given on the Boosey & Hawkes site. Disappointingly enough, it has no diagram either (and I can't find one on the Panufnik site they link to).
Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2017, 10:37:23 AM
thing with panufnik is, I can always go from one unsatisfying experience with him, to another, and another... I feel like it's half way between two unsatisfying poles, taking this and that and this (MI's "gimmicks"?)...
All I've ever kept of his is the 'Votiva', mostly because it's with that Sessions, on Hyperion,... and I went about trying to find more that was like that, until, probably documented in this Thread, I realized 'Votiva' might be the best it got for me :(
Now listening to Symphony 3... Solti... is this the 'Sacra' that was on Nonesuch? (another highly touted album that just poured off of me like milk)... yea, I remember this opening fanfare, brutal allegro, religious ending...bing bam boom... 1 2 3... A B C...
is Panufnik too "easy" for us meat eaters? There's definitely something ALWAYS missing... it's like he should be Penderecki, or Dutilleux, or Lutoslawski, or someone, something like that, but... The Grande Meh...
too soft... too noisy... too complex... too pat...
yukk... do not want...
broccoli
I see what you mean although I rather like the 'Rustica' and 'Sacra' symphonies.
The only work from Panufnik that had any kind of impact on me was his Autumn Music, but I do find Katyń Epitaph quite moving as well.
I am quite a large fan of Panufnik's final symphonies. I love that his sense of form and harmony was structed around his famous 3 note cell and his geometric shapes. You can ignore all that and it still makes perfect sense. Sad to see so many haters of his late work but it appeals to me.
Quote from: lescamil on April 27, 2017, 08:30:16 PM
I am quite a large fan of Panufnik's final symphonies. I love that his sense of form and harmony was structed around his famous 3 note cell and his geometric shapes. You can ignore all that and it still makes perfect sense. Sad to see so many haters of his late work but it appeals to me.
But, when you speak of "three note cells" and geometry (Panufnik an obvious FM?), the first thing I think of is Robert Simpson, who, I think, does this kind of thing with... mm... "better" results??
lol- hey, I'll still keep tryin- at least Panuknik has a lot of murk that needs to be brought to light and examined- it's just that evey time I do, I'm always left with "meh" :(
But, I'll try the later stuff some more, after all 10 Symphonies and they all have a different MO... maybe I'll take the Votiva with me today...
Quote from: snyprrr on April 28, 2017, 06:33:25 AM
But, when you speak of "three note cells" and geometry (Panufnik an obvious FM?), the first thing I think of is Robert Simpson, who, I think, does this kind of thing with... mm... "better" results??
Robert Simpson did this? I've heard some of his music and it must be done quite differently because I just don't hear it. Simpson's music for the most part hasn't done much for me, though. Maybe I just haven't heard the right stuff yet.
I like Panufnik's use of geometric ideas. This idea of geometry comes from the chromatic scale, and using its symmetry (12 notes) as the starting point, rather than a scale or harmonic device. The music composed in such a way is necessarily going to sound chromatic, rather than diatonic. That makes perfect sense to me.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODQyNDg5MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1MTkzMDIyNzR9)
I'm enjoying this self-recommending set which has plenty of sensational compositions. Katyn Epytaph, a short work of orchestra is playing here right now. Intensely moving.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 05, 2022, 06:57:16 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODQyNDg5MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1MTkzMDIyNzR9)
I'm enjoying this self-recommending set which has plenty of sensational compositions. Katyn Epytaph, a short work of orchestra is playing here right now. Intensely moving.
I agree. Not all Panufnik registers strongly with me. Some of his later symphonies just aren't that interesting. I would say my favorite work of his is
Autumn Music --- an emotional piece for me, especially for its inspiration.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2022, 07:09:28 PM
I agree. Not all Panufnik registers strongly with me. Some of his later symphonies just aren't that interesting. I would say my favorite work of his is Autumn Music --- an emotional piece for me, especially for its inspiration.
I agree. The 'Rustica' and 'Sacra' symphonies are my favourites. I must listen out for the Autumn Music.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2017, 10:37:23 AM
thing with panufnik is, I can always go from one unsatisfying experience with him, to another, and another... I feel like it's half way between two unsatisfying poles, taking this and that and this (MI's "gimmicks"?)...
All I've ever kept of his is the 'Votiva', mostly because it's with that Sessions, on Hyperion,... and I went about trying to find more that was like that, until, probably documented in this Thread, I realized 'Votiva' might be the best it got for me :(
Now listening to Symphony 3... Solti... is this the 'Sacra' that was on Nonesuch? (another highly touted album that just poured off of me like milk)... yea, I remember this opening fanfare, brutal allegro, religious ending...bing bam boom... 1 2 3... A B C...
is Panufnik too "easy" for us meat eaters? There's definitely something ALWAYS missing... it's like he should be Penderecki, or Dutilleux, or Lutoslawski, or someone, something like that, but... The Grande Meh...
too soft... too noisy... too complex... too pat...
yukk... do not want...
broccoli
Was reading back through this thread and came across this post which made me chuckle! :D I do miss snyprrr's entertaining posts, though I do recall hearing that he had some rather controversial things to say in other parts of the forum. :-X
Quote from: vandermolen on March 05, 2022, 11:00:37 PM
I agree. The 'Rustica' and 'Sacra' symphonies are my favourites. I must listen out for the Autumn Music.
I really need to do a whole traversal of the Panufnik CPO series. So much music, so little time.
Worth the revisit indeed. I've been delighted and enthralled by the orchestral works apart from symphonies and concertos. There is something transcendent in his music, it's thought-provoking and haunting.
Quote from: kyjo on March 08, 2022, 11:28:54 AM
Was reading back through this thread and came across this post which made me chuckle! :D I do miss snyprrr's entertaining posts, though I do recall hearing that he had some rather controversial things to say in other parts of the forum. :-X
To some extent I can relate to snyprrr's views on Panufnik. I like the Sacra, Rustica and the Katyn Epitaph but much of the rest of his music doesn't appeal to me.
+1
I purchase a very inexpensive CD version of this yesterday:
(//)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 08, 2022, 05:18:10 PM
Worth the revisit indeed. I've been delighted and enthralled by the orchestral works apart from symphonies and concertos. There is something transcendent in his music, it's thought-provoking and haunting.
What would you say are the standout works in his orchestral oeuvre, Cesar? So far I've only heard the
Sacra and
Rustica symphonies which I've enjoyed, but I'm a bit intimidated by his later works, which I've read are compositionally based on geometric shapes, palindromes, and other mathematical principles (which is rather off-putting to me).
Quote from: kyjo on March 09, 2022, 09:26:45 AM
What would you say are the standout works in his orchestral oeuvre, Cesar? So far I've only heard the Sacra and Rustica symphonies which I've enjoyed, but I'm a bit intimidated by his later works, which I've read are compositionally based on geometric shapes, palindromes, and other mathematical principles (which is rather off-putting to me).
Have you heard the
Bassoon Concerto, Kyle? This is another work I'd rank highly along with
Autumn Music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2022, 09:48:09 AM
Have you heard the Bassoon Concerto, Kyle? This is another work I'd rank highly along with Autumn Music.
I'll check out both of those works, thanks! Anyone know his Cello Concerto written for and recorded by Rostropovich?
Quote from: kyjo on March 09, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
I'll check out both of those works, thanks! Anyone know his Cello Concerto written for and recorded by Rostropovich?
I know it, but to be honest, I have yet to wrap my mind around it. I do recall enjoying the
Piano Concerto. Oh and for the
Bassoon Concerto, be sure to listen to the CPO recording as it's the best one of the three I own, IMHO.
Quote from: kyjo on March 09, 2022, 09:26:45 AM
What would you say are the standout works in his orchestral oeuvre, Cesar? So far I've only heard the Sacra and Rustica symphonies which I've enjoyed, but I'm a bit intimidated by his later works, which I've read are compositionally based on geometric shapes, palindromes, and other mathematical principles (which is rather off-putting to me).
It seems like I'm listening to one of those works. His
Rhapsody for orchestra (is playing now) sounds meandering and mysterious, without a direction...
... but it gets more in motion and becomes more poignant and expressive. An intriguing piece.