GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: (poco) Sforzando on October 16, 2010, 09:21:30 AM

Title: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on October 16, 2010, 09:21:30 AM
For a personal project, I am looking for the name of any operatic characters (preferably female) who are sent into exile as part of the plot. Nothing obscure, please, as that would defeat the purpose. Eboli from Don Carlo or Puccini's Manon might do, but can you think of any others?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: karlhenning on October 16, 2010, 09:57:04 AM
Katerina Izmailova (internal exile to prison in Siberia)
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on October 16, 2010, 10:26:07 AM
Katerina Izmailova (internal exile to prison in Siberia)

Thanks. A little off the standard Verdi-Puccini-Wagner mainstream for my needs, but a possibility.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Gurn Blanston on October 16, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Is Monteverdi in the mix? In Poppea, Drusilla and Ottone are sent into exile...

8)

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Now playing:
Malcolm Bilson - Dussek Op 44 Sonata in Eb for Pianoforte 4th mvmt - Rondo: Allegro moderato e espressivo
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on October 16, 2010, 11:01:48 AM
Is Monteverdi in the mix? In Poppea, Drusilla and Ottone are sent into exile...

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Malcolm Bilson - Dussek Op 44 Sonata in Eb for Pianoforte 4th mvmt - Rondo: Allegro moderato e espressivo

Again, a little too off the beaten path, and that's two characters. So far, Eboli and Manon seem my best bets. Thanks.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Scarpia on October 16, 2010, 02:42:11 PM
For a personal project, I am looking for the name of any operatic characters (preferably female) who are sent into exile as part of the plot. Nothing obscure, please, as that would defeat the purpose. Eboli from Don Carlo or Puccini's Manon might do, but can you think of any others?

Thanks.

The Queen of the Night at the end of Zauberflote?
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Anne on October 16, 2010, 05:26:26 PM
I think I might need some help with this but in Macbeth doesn't the army go away and camouflage themselves until Birnum Wood comes to______?
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: karlhenning on October 16, 2010, 05:29:55 PM
Malcolm does willingly quit Scotland for safety's sake, 'tis true.

Nice to see you about, Anne!
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Anne on October 16, 2010, 05:31:53 PM
How about Carmen?  For misbehaving she is to be imprisoned which merely gave her some time to work out her escape in privacy with the soldier's help.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: kishnevi on October 16, 2010, 07:34:51 PM
In Turandot, Calaf, Timur and Liu are already in exile at the start of the opera.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on October 16, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
How about Carmen?  For misbehaving she is to be imprisoned which merely gave her some time to work out her escape in privacy with the soldier's help.

Of course the problem with using Carmen is that she never really gets exiled.

I do appreciate everyone's help. So far I think Eboli remains closest to what I need. The fact that she is cut off permanently from her Queen is just the shading I want.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Wendell_E on October 17, 2010, 05:19:37 AM
Is Monteverdi in the mix? In Poppea, Drusilla and Ottone are sent into exile...

8)
And what about Ottavia in the same opera?  She was the first one that came to mind when I saw this thread title. Her farewell to Rome is one of the highlights of the score.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: knight66 on October 17, 2010, 08:51:37 AM
Anaes in part 2 of The Trojans enters Carthage as an exile from Troy. Perhaps he is really a refugee. Ditto I suppose for Donizetti's Maria Stuarda.

Mike

Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Anne on October 19, 2010, 08:44:03 PM
Nice to see you about, Anne!

Thanks,  Karl.  It's nice to be back.  I was in the hospital for a while.  Then I somehow locked myself out of this BB and could not get back in.

Everyone should have a buddy on this BB who has your email address and you have his.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Superhorn on October 20, 2010, 07:51:20 AM
  In Verdi's rarely performed early opera I Due Foscari, the son of the Doge of Venice is sent into exile on trumped up charges by his enemies,leading ultimately to his death,and that of his father from grief. Not exactly a feel good opera, but a powerful one.
  There's an excellent Philips recording conducted by the late Lamberto Gardelli,who did so much to champion neglected Italian operas,but I'm not sure if it's still available. Check arkivmusic.com,the best website for hard to find classical recordings. And their overall selection of classical CDs and DVDs is amazing. No classical CD and DVD collector should miss it.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: sospiro on October 20, 2010, 09:23:37 AM
  In Verdi's rarely performed early opera I Due Foscari, the son of the Doge of Venice is sent into exile on trumped up charges by his enemies,leading ultimately to his death,and that of his father from grief. Not exactly a feel good opera, but a powerful one.
  There's an excellent Philips recording conducted by the late Lamberto Gardelli,who did so much to champion neglected Italian operas,but I'm not sure if it's still available. Check arkivmusic.com,the best website for hard to find classical recordings. And their overall selection of classical CDs and DVDs is amazing. No classical CD and DVD collector should miss it.

These are wonderful studio recordings.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/618BSYTN9uL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Guido on October 25, 2010, 10:34:13 AM
What is this shady project? My completely arbitrary guess, only because I am also participating is - NaNoWriMo.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Mandryka on October 30, 2010, 10:15:49 AM
Thanks. A little off the standard Verdi-Puccini-Wagner mainstream for my needs, but a possibility.

Isn't the obvious one Bruenhilde -- sent into exile away from Valhalla by her father?



Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Wanderer on October 30, 2010, 12:24:23 PM
Puccini's Manon

Also, Massenet's Manon, same character.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on October 31, 2010, 05:07:17 AM
Also, Massenet's Manon, same character.

I know. But being exiled to a desert in Louisiana somehow sounds better than - well, wherever Massenet's heroine was sent. Brünnhilde is a good idea too. Actually Parsifal, exiled to wander for an entire intermission between Acts 2-3, might work as well.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Luke on October 31, 2010, 05:00:11 PM
...and speaking in Wagnerian tones, not exactly an exile, but Freia's essentially-Wotan-sanctioned taking by F+F and her return are so strikingly portrayed in the score that it's hard to resist mentioning them.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Guido on November 04, 2010, 05:42:49 AM
Which one is that in Luke (embarrassed by y ignorance of the Ring story)
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Luke on November 04, 2010, 05:53:02 AM
Rheingold - she's taken as payment when Wotan won't cough up to Fasolt and Fafnir Inc for their construction work on his new pad. Without her the gods wither and grow old, so it's to get her back again that Wotan and Loge slip off to Nibelheim to nick the gold off of Alberich. Charming.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 06:00:31 AM
Those wacky Teutons! The creators of screwball opera!
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 04, 2010, 02:38:19 PM
Rheingold - she's taken as payment when Wotan won't cough up to Fasolt and Fafnir Inc for their construction work on his new pad.

Actually, she was the initially promised payment (which Wotan never had any intention of honoring) — without which the very large brothers probably wouldn't have built the mansion to begin with, and then Wotan send Loge scrambling all over creation for a substitute.

I think I would enjoy seeing Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid from the Harry Potter films) cast as Fasolt. He would at least be much larger than the giants one sees on stage.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Guido on November 06, 2010, 04:52:28 AM
Except that that was done using CGI trickery - he's not actually that tall.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: knight66 on November 06, 2010, 07:03:15 AM
You probably would not much enjoy him singing, though he used to be able to pass as a rock musician.

Mike
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 06, 2010, 07:25:24 AM
I think I would enjoy seeing Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid from the Harry Potter films) cast as Fasolt. He would at least be much larger than the giants one sees on stage.

Coincidently, I saw Rheingold last night; a new co-production combing the forces of Ludwigshafen and Halle. There was no attempt to depict F & F as giants. Here they are grabbing Freia (dressed like a 30s Krankenschwester--appropriate, I guess, since she does keep the gods healthy):

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/oct2010/Ring02.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 06, 2010, 07:29:17 AM
Those wacky Teutons! The creators of screwball opera!

("chortle")

Sarge
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Guido on November 06, 2010, 08:11:23 AM
Wagner really didn't want to make it easy on his directors did he!
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 06, 2010, 02:00:11 PM
Except that that was done using CGI trickery - he's not actually that tall.

I know. Neither was Frances de la Tour as the French Headmistress. (Of that I can be sure, 'cause I saw her on stage in "The History Boys.")
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: mamascarlatti on November 14, 2010, 04:00:59 PM
In Gounod's Romeo et Juliette, Romeo gets sent into exile after killing Tybalt.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: DavidW on November 14, 2010, 05:22:12 PM
("chortle")

Sarge

It's not an authentic reproduction of the Henning chortle if you don't use the Georgia font Sarge. ;D
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 16, 2010, 07:21:00 PM
In Gounod's Romeo et Juliette, Romeo gets sent into exile after killing Tybalt.

Very good.
Title: Re: Operatic characters who vanish and leave no trace behind
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 16, 2010, 07:23:53 PM
OK, here's another one (and I really can't think of an example): an operatic character who vanishes into thin air, and leaves no trace behind. Again, the more familiar the opera, the better. Thanks.
Title: Re: Operatic characters who vanish and leave no trace behind
Post by: Luke on November 17, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
OK, here's another one (and I really can't think of an example): an operatic character who vanishes into thin air, and leaves no trace behind. Again, the more familiar the opera, the better. Thanks.

Apart from ghosts, you mean? (e.g. Quint at the end of The Turn of the Screw)
Title: Re: Operatic characters who vanish and leave no trace behind
Post by: kishnevi on November 17, 2010, 08:23:35 PM
Apart from ghosts, you mean? (e.g. Quint at the end of The Turn of the Screw)

How about Fiorello in the Barber of Seville.  Apparently,  he's the Count's right hand man at the start;  then after the aubade and choral scene that starts the opera, he exits and is not only not seen again, but never mentioned either. 
Title: Re: Operatic characters who vanish and leave no trace behind
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 17, 2010, 08:28:44 PM
Apart from ghosts, you mean? (e.g. Quint at the end of The Turn of the Screw)

Not quite right, but thanks.
Title: Re: Operatic characters who vanish and leave no trace behind
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 17, 2010, 08:30:06 PM
How about Fiorello in the Barber of Seville.  Apparently,  he's the Count's right hand man at the start;  then after the aubade and choral scene that starts the opera, he exits and is not only not seen again, but never mentioned either.

Maybe he turns up again as Figaro. But he's too minor a character for anyone to notice or care.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Guido on November 18, 2010, 09:07:58 AM
what are these for?
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 18, 2010, 08:48:16 PM
what are these for?

I'll explain via PM.
Title: Re: Operatic characters sent into exile
Post by: Superhorn on November 19, 2010, 01:56:09 PM
   Is his last name La Guardia?



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