Haydn's Haus

[lordlance]

A terrific Haydn 100 for those looking for a new performance that's modern instrument but HIP-influenced:

I did not know until today that Haydn asks for the percussion to enter the hall and march towards the stage. Haydn sure loved using novelties in his symphonies, huh?

There's no information on the video about the orchestra or the year of performance. If anyone has any clue, please let me know.

[DavidW]

A terrific Haydn 100 for those looking for a new performance that's modern instrument but HIP-influenced:

Nothing is there, what are you talking about?

[lordlance]

Nothing is there, what are you talking about?

Edited. 

[Madiel]

A terrific Haydn 100 for those looking for a new performance that's modern instrument but HIP-influenced:

I did not know until today that Haydn asks for the percussion to enter the hall and march towards the stage. Haydn sure loved using novelties in his symphonies, huh?

There's no information on the video about the orchestra or the year of performance. If anyone has any clue, please let me know.

That thing you didn't know until today... how do you know it now?

[Anooj]

Regarding the Adam Fischer set of complete symphonies, it seems to generally be agreed that the Paris and London symphonies are the weak link there. I've been thinking of getting that set, and since I already have very satisfactory recordings of the Paris & London symphonies, it won't really matter if those are indeed inferior.

But what about the intermediary symphonies 88-92? Are those problematic too? Or should I instead go for the Naxos complete set, which right now is on sale at JPC?

[Jo498]

The Naxos set is with half a dozen different conductors/ensembles recorded over 20 years or more. It's very uneven although I admittedly have heard only a handful of discs and they were mostly decent.

I like Fischer, although it's also uneven and took almost 20 years for completion. I don't remember enough about his 88-92, they are probably not up with the best. I dimly recall that I liked his 91 (could also have been 84, both Eb major) but not his 90. The Concertante is pretty good and has famous Vienna soloists, I think.

The Fischer is 3 EUR more than Naxos right now on jpc which is not cheap (it used to be 30-40 EUR a few years ago, I think), but I'd probably still go for Fischer.

[DavidW]

Regarding the Adam Fischer set of complete symphonies, it seems to generally be agreed that the Paris and London symphonies are the weak link there. I've been thinking of getting that set, and since I already have very satisfactory recordings of the Paris & London symphonies, it won't really matter if those are indeed inferior.

But what about the intermediary symphonies 88-92? Are those problematic too? Or should I instead go for the Naxos complete set, which right now is on sale at JPC?

Regarding the Adam Fischer set of complete symphonies, it seems to generally be agreed that the Paris and London symphonies are the weak link there. I've been thinking of getting that set, and since I already have very satisfactory recordings of the Paris & London symphonies, it won't really matter if those are indeed inferior.

But what about the intermediary symphonies 88-92? Are those problematic too? Or should I instead go for the Naxos complete set, which right now is on sale at JPC?

I really think that it is only the Londons that are questionable.  You can certainly do better in the Paris and Chunnel symphonies than Fischer but they're pretty good.  The Fischer set is highly consistent.  I've heard a few sets and the only I thought was competitive was Dorati, which is long oop.

[Madiel]

Regarding the Adam Fischer set of complete symphonies, it seems to generally be agreed that the Paris and London symphonies are the weak link there. I've been thinking of getting that set, and since I already have very satisfactory recordings of the Paris & London symphonies, it won't really matter if those are indeed inferior.

But what about the intermediary symphonies 88-92? Are those problematic too? Or should I instead go for the Naxos complete set, which right now is on sale at JPC?

The basic rule of thumb is that the later the recording date in the Fischer set, the better the performance. I don't know when 88-92 were recorded but it should be possible to find this information somewhere.

[Jo498]

Yes, that's the rule of thumb for the Fischer set, and it applies also to sound quality!

1987 101, 103
1988 102, 100, 96, 94, 105, 45
1989 93, 95, 97, 98, 99, 104, 6, 7, 8, 22, 24, 27
1990 1-5, 9-12, 92, 25, 88, 90
1991 13-20, 40, 91, 83, 85, 89
1992 82, 86
1994 42-44, 51, 52, 84, 87
1995 41, 46-50, 53, 54
1996 55-61, 63
1997 62, 64-71, 73
1998 72, 74-81
2000 21, 23, 26, 28, 29, A, B
2001 30-39

As the Brilliant issue has the discs in numerical order, one sometimes gets one of the weaker earlier recordings right next to a much better one. I remember this clearly about 21 and 26 both of which are very good, maybe the best recording of them on modern instruments (but by then Fischer was somewhat influenced by HIP) while 22, 24, 27 are rather lame.
I am not sure and it's been a while I heard any of them but I think the ones recorded since 1994 are considerably better.

[Madiel]

I bought the separate box covering symphonies 70-81, both because it covered some symphonies that are quite hard to get and because it's got some of the very best performances.

Edit: For 88-92 I actually have a nice 2CD set, I want to say it's Kuijken (spelling?).

[JBS]

I bought the separate box covering symphonies 70-81, both because it covered some symphonies that are quite hard to get and because it's got some of the very best performances.

Edit: For 88-92 I actually have a nice 2CD set, I want to say it's Kuijken (spelling?).

Kiujken's is an excellent set, so if it's not it should be.

While on the subject of complete sets:
How is Buchbinder's set of the piano sonatas? It's rather cheap on both Amazon and Presto, and I don't have a set on modern piano--just the Brautigam and Beghin sets.  Fullest I have on modern piano is Hamelin's series.

[lordlance]

The Naxos set is with half a dozen different conductors/ensembles recorded over 20 years or more. It's very uneven although I admittedly have heard only a handful of discs and they were mostly decent.

I like Fischer, although it's also uneven and took almost 20 years for completion. I don't remember enough about his 88-92, they are probably not up with the best. I dimly recall that I liked his 91 (could also have been 84, both Eb major) but not his 90. The Concertante is pretty good and has famous Vienna soloists, I think.

The Fischer is 3 EUR more than Naxos right now on jpc which is not cheap (it used to be 30-40 EUR a few years ago, I think), but I'd probably still go for Fischer.

You can also get this set if you want 88-92 with a tasty bonus of the Sinfonia Concertante:

[lordlance]

That thing you didn't know until today... how do you know it now?

From watching the performance.

[Jo498]

yes, I like that Rattle/Berlin box quite a bit (although not all do). Haven't heard Kuijken but his other Haydn symphonies rank from good to great, so I'd imagine them to be good as well. Hugh Wolf did them with Frankfurt but on 3 disc with other fillers and no concertante, IIRC. They are also among Dorati's best, his 90 used to be my favorite. Of course 88 and 92 are quite well covered anyway.

For ~70-80 Fischer is both at his best and has only little competition, mostly Goodman (no 79-81 and annoying harpsichord) and a few scattered recordings like Rattle in 70, Harnoncourt in 73 etc.

The partial Nimbus boxes were introuvable or expensive for some time but with the Brilliant box not as cheap anymore, they might be an option again, also for ca. 50-70.

[Madiel]

From watching the performance.

Watching a performance doesn't tell you that the percussion marching onto stage was Haydn's idea, unless somewhere in the video they actually tell you it was Haydn's instruction.

I've seen a marvellous live performance of The Rite of Spring where the orchestra incorporated an enormous amount of movement, in the absence of any ballet dancers. That wasn't Stravinsky's idea.

[lordlance]

Watching a performance doesn't tell you that the percussion marching onto stage was Haydn's idea, unless somewhere in the video they actually tell you it was Haydn's instruction.

I've seen a marvellous live performance of The Rite of Spring where the orchestra incorporated an enormous amount of movement, in the absence of any ballet dancers. That wasn't Stravinsky's idea.

Oh I assumed it was Haydn's idea much like he did with Farewell or other little novelties like false endings. Do you know that this was not Haydn's idea?

[Madiel]

Oh I assumed it was Haydn's idea much like he did with Farewell or other little novelties like false endings. Do you know that this was not Haydn's idea?

I know that you're the only person I've ever seen suggest that it was. Given how often the scenario in the Farewell symphony is mentioned, I would find it incredibly strange if the score of the Military had a stage direction all this time and nobody had ever mentioned it.

[Jo498]

It's not in the score. But as the use of the military percussion is a bit gimmicky anyway, I wouldn't say it's against the spirit to enhance it by giving them a special effect of entering.

I think I have heard one recording of Bibers "Battaglia" where they used some effect like passing musicians from left to right on a cart so that they sound like moving band.

[Madiel]

It's not in the score. But as the use of the military percussion is a bit gimmicky anyway, I wouldn't say it's against the spirit to enhance it by giving them a special effect of entering.

I think I have heard one recording of Bibers "Battaglia" where they used some effect like passing musicians from left to right on a cart so that they sound like moving band.

Oh no, I'm certainly not intending to suggest there's something wrong with the marching idea. I agree it fits the spirit of the piece perfectly well.

[lordlance]

If it is Honeck's invention, it's a really great idea honestly. I really liked it.