Now that we have collectively gloried in the love of our joint interest, we must draw up some divisions and have some arguments.
What one recording, or perhaps more, do you think is nowhere near as good as reviewers/fan say? What are the over-rated recordings out there?
I have a few, and will not go into terrific detail at this point:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XABVSBMAL._SS500_.jpg)
Why bother? I prefer Ancerl and Neumann, plus some of the obvious orchestras.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kGDOtViJL._SS500_.jpg)
Just rubbish, I genuinly fail to see why these are good.
(http://www.3-x.nl/images/front/24895.jpg)
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kGDOtViJL._SS500_.jpg)
Just rubbish, I genuinly fail to see why these are good.
what!! that's like one of the greatest recordings of the fifth!
Quote from: MahlerTitan on May 13, 2007, 08:33:31 AM
what!! that's like one of the greatest recordings of the fifth!
I agree. That I've heard anyway.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
Now that we have collectively gloried in the love of our joint interest, we must draw up some divisions and have some arguments.
Love it! >:D
I'll start with these two, dreary as dishwater:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Apr03/Rattle_Beethoven.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/Sibelius_symphonies_Davis_82876557062_PSe.jpg)
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
Now that we have collectively gloried in the love of our joint interest, we must draw up some divisions and have some arguments.
What one recording, or perhaps more, do you think is nowhere near as good as reviewers/fan say? What are the over-rated recordings out there?
Funny, I was contemplating to start just a thread like this! :)
I share your reservations on the Kleiber LvB. expertly done, but actually very selfconscious and totally unidiomatic "Straussian" (Richard, of course) performances.
Some of my nominees for the new GMG series: "
Overrated Recordings of the Century ;D
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7152737.jpg)
Despite the illustrious line up of names (a common factor in overrated recordings) - with the notable exception of Ingeborg Hallstein, who is really a not an impressive singer - this performance is as exciting as a dead Dodo. Furtwängler did much better (live ' 53), and Böhm ('44) too. And it is said Klemperer outdid himself live (Testament).
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/6692751.jpg)
I've already commented on this one. A major contender.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8119553.jpg)
Fortunately the fame of this recording seems in decline. Giulini is as un-Mozartian as can be! Another dead Dodo.
I'll post some more later! 8)
Q
Quote from: dtwilbanks on May 13, 2007, 08:34:19 AM
I agree. That I've heard anyway.
Then you have heard Toscanini from '33!
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:45:20 AM
Then you have heard Toscanini from '33!
But Toscanini in Beethoven's 5th only lasts 12 minutes, I suspect.
Perahia's wayward Handel/Scarlatti disc and Labadie's Hollywood Bowl-sounding Goldberg Variations immediately come to mind:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J20S1C9XL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 13, 2007, 08:43:18 AM
Love it! >:D
I'll start with these two, dreary as dishwater:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/Sibelius_symphonies_Davis_82876557062_PSe.jpg)
The other Davis/Sibelius cycle too!
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/419PS9RX78L._AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q5VS6RVQL._AA240_.jpg)
Q
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 09:03:51 AM
The other Davis/Sibelius cycle too!
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/419PS9RX78L._AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q5VS6RVQL._AA240_.jpg)
Q
Dunno' Que, whilst I detested the LSO cycle, thought the BSO cycle had some good stuff; 3 + 7 spring to mind. Still got rid of it though, far more interesting interpretations around! ;)
Quote from: Harry Collier on May 13, 2007, 08:57:11 AM
But Toscanini in Beethoven's 5th only lasts 12 minutes, I suspect.
Although I know this fun is suposed to be fun and it would be wayward of me to strongly slam you here, Harry, but this kind of ignorance is unacceptable. Why do silly people like you go along with absurd stereotypes that you have not experienced yourself, only heard?
Toscanini did have relatively fast first movements, but little else. If we take is Brahms 1, for example, his average length is longer than that of Mouteux, Stokowski and within ten seconds or so of Cantelli, Walter and even Karajan!
Toscanini manipluated tempi much more than he did perform things overall faster. And that is obviously what you hear and then wrongly assume. He certainly wasn't the speed freak you suggest.
I certainly enjoy Davis' Sibelius from Boston, particularly his 4th, the darkest on record. Havent heard LSO but only hear bad stuff about it.
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 08:43:40 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7152737.jpg)
Despite the illustrious line up of names (a common factor in overrated recordings) - with the notable exception of Ingeborg Hallstein, who is really a not an impressive singer - this performance is as exciting as a dead Dodo. Furtwängler did much better (live ' 53), and Böhm ('44) too. And it is said Klemperer outdid himself live (Testament).
:o
I got this one yesterday. ??? So far I notice its the only title to appear on both threads. ::)
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 08:43:40 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7152737.jpg)
Despite the illustrious line up of names (a common factor in overrated recordings) - with the notable exception of Ingeborg Hallstein, who is really a not an impressive singer - this performance is as exciting as a dead Dodo. Furtwängler did much better (live ' 53), and Böhm ('44) too. And it is said Klemperer outdid himself live (Testament).
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8119553.jpg)
Fortunately the fame of this recording seems in decline. Giulini is as un-Mozartian as can be! Another dead Dodo.
You and I are of one mind on these two, Q!
The worst thing to befall the planet since the Ice Age:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/511BA4TKP9L._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 09:10:07 AM
I certainly enjoy Davis' Sibelius from Boston, particularly his 4th, the darkest on record. Havent heard LSO but only hear bad stuff about it.
DARK! I'll give you dark bitch!
Maazel/VPO, Berglund/BSO (that's Bournemouth, not Boston!), Segerstam/HPO are all dark as
Don't particularly remember the Davis with Boston, Oh no! gonna' have to hunt down a CD I've already flogged! Damn...
I have bought so many things that I have played once or taken off before it finishes, that it's hard to remember all of them Here are a two stand-outs from the crowd. >:D
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31E8007QXYL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WDRPCE5VL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: D Minor on May 13, 2007, 09:15:58 AM
The worst thing to befall the planet since the Ice Age:
[img height=200 width]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/511BA4TKP9L._SS500_.jpg[/img]
Agreed! Fortunately I've never owned it and heard it at a friend's. Horrible... ;D
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/5033216.jpg)
When I was in my teens, this was new and generally considered the ultimate.
And I believed it - silly me. ;D I played it over and over again, thinking I didn't "get" the music!
Fortunately there was nothing wrong with me, or the music, just with the recording. 8)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KQN7E7MDL._AA240_.jpg)
Another youth sin. And against this recording I have true grudge - it has kept me form LvB's violin sonatas for over a decade. Real "big boned", "fake romantic" garbage.
Q
Here's another one that really stinks up the place - Thibaudet's Chopin.
That and everything else that has been recommended by Gramophone. ;D
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 13, 2007, 09:26:21 AM
DARK! I'll give you dark bitch!
Maazel/VPO, Berglund/BSO (that's Bournemouth, not Boston!), Segerstam/HPO are all dark as
Don't particularly remember the Davis with Boston, Oh no! gonna' have to hunt down a CD I've already flogged! Damn...
I find Maazel and Berglund devoid of power; the ultimately satisfying creshendo in the 3rd movement of the 4th (the moment I merely wait for when hearing the symphony), just doesn't cut it for me -- which is suprsingly, given the superb orchestra Maazel had to work with. My actual favourite is Karajan.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 09:44:33 AM
I find Maazel and Berglund devoid of power; the ultimately satisfying creshendo in the 3rd movement of the 4th (the moment I merely wait for when hearing the symphony), just doesn't cut it for me -- which is suprsingly, given the superb orchestra Maazel had to work with. My actual favourite is Karajan.
Yep, granted, Karajan is very good here. Have the twofer from the 60's with 5, 6 and 7 and Tapiola (very intense and quite terrifying this version). His seventh I find a bit messy, as if he didn't quite get to grips with the structure of it. Would like to hear some his other EMI stuff sometime....
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HJVCYMNYL._AA240_.jpg)
This is a bit of fun. The most boring Bach organ recordings I've ever heard come from the Hans Helmut
Tillmanns cycle on the Danacord label - stodgy tempos, lack of drama, overly rounded contours, lack of variety of touch and tempo, etc. He's worst in the more powerful works where any sense of power is missing.
Below is just a picture of one his discs:
Quote from: Don on May 13, 2007, 09:59:45 AM
This is a bit of fun. The most boring Bach organ recordings I've ever heard come from the Hans Helmut
Tillmanns cycle on the Danacord label - stodgy tempos, lack of drama, overly rounded contours, lack of variety of touch and tempo, etc. He's worst in the more powerful works where any sense of power is missing.
Below is just a picture of one his discs:
Don, I thought of you recently, given that I know how much you love Organ music. I was in St Albans Cathedral here in UK recently and discovered he was the musical director there for some time. A lovely cathedral, it is.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 10:04:28 AM
Don, I thought of you recently, given that I know how much you love Organ music. I was in St Albans Cathedral here in UK recently and discovered he was the musical director there for some time. A lovely cathedral, it is.
Wasn't aware of that. Hopefully, he's better at that job than in his Bach cycle.
Quote from: Don on May 13, 2007, 10:19:58 AM
Wasn't aware of that. Hopefully, he's better at that job than in his Bach cycle.
Sorry, I was silly there, when I said "he", I was referring not to "him", but to Peter Hurford that I forgot to type....sorry.
Yes, the great Peter Hurford.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 10:28:19 AM
Sorry, I was silly there, when I said "he", I was referring not to "him", but to Peter Hurford that I forgot to type....sorry.
Yes, the great Peter Hurford.
Got it. Now Hurford is an exceptional Bach performing artist.
Another folly of my teens (fortunately I don't blindly follow the recommendations in CD guides anymore ;D)
Opinions will be divided on this one, but I don't like Uchida's Mozart....at all.
8)
Q
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B991MT1CL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 09:35:35 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/5033216.jpg)
When I was in my teens, this was new and generally considered the ultimate.
And I believed it - silly me. ;D I played it over and over again, thinking I did't "get" the music!
Fortunately there was nothing wrong with me, or the music, just with the recording. 8)
I actually like this one. Haven't heard a better Hammerklavier...There must be something wrong with me. ;D
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 10:44:00 AM
Another folly of my teens (fortunately I don't blindly follow the recommendations in CD guides anymore ;D)
Opinions will be divided on this one, but I don't like Uchida's Mozart....at all.
8)
Q
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B991MT1CL._AA240_.jpg)
We'll have to part ways on the Uchida cycle and Pollini's 2-cd set of Beethoven's late sonatas. For me, they are as good as it gets.
What strikes me most about the postings on this thread is that members whose musical preferences I tend to agree with are coming up with disliked recordings that I find among the best around. And that's fine - I never expect to locate my clone on discussion boards.
Quote from: George on May 13, 2007, 10:48:19 AM
I actually like this one. Haven't heard a better Hammerklavier...There must be something wrong with me. ;D
One of my favourites too! I really admire Pollini's Chiselled aggression in these late works, really works for me.
Might have to keep away from this thread!
;D
Quote from: George on May 13, 2007, 10:48:19 AM
I actually like this one. Haven't heard a better Hammerklavier...There must be something wrong with me. ;D
I'm sure you're fine, George! ;D
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 13, 2007, 10:55:00 AM
One of my favourites too! I really admire Pollini's Chiselled aggression in these late works, really works for me.
Good description, and precisely what does not appeal to me.
QuoteMight have to keep away from this thread! ;D
I hope not! I'd like to hear your nominations. :)
Q
Bach Orchestral Suites Neville Marriner.....Muzak performances. DULL.
Mike
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 09:10:07 AM
I certainly enjoy Davis' Sibelius from Boston, particularly his 4th, the darkest on record. Havent heard LSO but only hear bad stuff about it.
The LSO Kullervo is magnificent, and the Boston Sixth is the best ever...EVER.
Thus Spake Sargethustra
Seriously ;)
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 13, 2007, 09:26:21 AM
DARK! I'll give you dark bitch!
Maazel/VPO...
Amen, brother (and if M were here, we'd be the Gang of Three)
Sarge
Quote from: knight on May 13, 2007, 11:13:27 AM
Bach Orchestral Suites Neville Marriner.....Muzak performances. DULL.
Mike
Agreed. Marriner and Bach are a poor match.
Quote from: Drasko on May 13, 2007, 09:56:58 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HJVCYMNYL._AA240_.jpg)
FBI-style magnification method determined this image to be :o
Quote from: orbital on May 13, 2007, 12:18:38 PM
FBI-style magnification method determined this image to be :o
I believe its the sound that he rejects. I remember a post ahwile back to that effect.
Quote from: Don on May 13, 2007, 12:08:29 PM
Agreed. Marriner and Bach are a poor match.
I need to take my own advice...bin it and get a decent recording.
Mike
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 09:08:30 AM
Although I know this fun is suposed to be fun and it would be wayward of me to strongly slam you here, Harry, but this kind of ignorance is unacceptable. Why do silly people like you go along with absurd stereotypes that you have not experienced yourself, only heard?
Toscanini did have relatively fast first movements, but little else. If we take is Brahms 1, for example, his average length is longer than that of Mouteux, Stokowski and within ten seconds or so of Cantelli, Walter and even Karajan!
Toscanini manipluated tempi much more than he did perform things overall faster. And that is obviously what you hear and then wrongly assume. He certainly wasn't the speed freak you suggest.
A slight digression here:
Michel, have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbGLDrepqLA
With Toscanini, it was often the way he articulated the music and injected energy into it that made people think he was a speed merchant. Though, he was not one to linger!
Mike
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2007, 10:44:00 AM
Another folly of my teens (fortunately I don't blindly follow the recommendations in CD guides anymore ;D)
Opinions will be divided on this one, but I don't like Uchida's Mozart....at all.
8)
Q
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B991MT1CL._AA240_.jpg)
(I have used this photo before for Sarge....your turn Q! :D)
Q being escorted out of Rick's for his comments concerning the above Uchida effort:(http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/pictures/films/casablanca/casablanca7.jpg)
To dump:
Beethoven Violin Sonatas Nos. 5 and 9 Zukerman/Barenboim EMI
Also possible dumps, these two Pinnock cds:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/5119091DM8L._AA240_.jpg) (http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Bogey on May 13, 2007, 08:36:25 PM
Q being escorted out of Rick's for his comments concerning the above Uchida effort:
(http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/pictures/films/casablanca/casablanca7.jpg)
Indeed!
And that's me in the black hat awaiting orders from
Rick Bill!
Quote from: donwyn on May 13, 2007, 09:08:06 PM
Indeed!
And that's me in the black hat awaiting orders from Rick Bill!
HA! ;D The "Uchida Avengers"! ;D
Q
Quote from: George on May 13, 2007, 10:48:19 AM
I actually like this one. Haven't heard a better Hammerklavier...There must be something wrong with me. ;D
Yes, I'm quite fond of this set too. I've always enjoyed his Waldstein.
Quote from: Bogey on May 13, 2007, 08:52:05 PM
Also possible dumps, these two Pinnock cds:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/5119091DM8L._AA240_.jpg) (http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)
So, who do you keep for these works, and why are they better?
Jeebus, what a bunch of trolls.
Quote from: Steve on May 13, 2007, 09:31:29 PM
Yes, I'm quite fond of this set too. I've always enjoyed his Waldstein.
Yes, I assume you've heard the live one?
I like a lot of Pinnock recordings a GREAT deal!
To give only one example:
MUSSORGSKI: Boris Godunov, by Claudio Abbado (with Kotcherga, Leiferkus). A version without life, presence (the choir in the first scene seems an exercise in the Conservatory, when compared to the Melik-Pachaev version) and with the most mediocre Boris I ever heard. And that has nothing to do with the choice of the original version or the one of Rimski.
Interesting; I often find Abbado great in opera. Not heard this one.
Quote from: George on May 13, 2007, 10:48:19 AMHaven't heard a better Hammerklavier
Nor have I.
Quote from: Bogey on May 13, 2007, 08:52:05 PM
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)
I have this set. What's wrong with it? ???
Quote from: 71 dB on May 14, 2007, 04:58:45 AM
What's wrong with it? ???
It's bad . . . . . . You shouldn't like it! :D
Quote from: Michel on May 14, 2007, 03:28:50 AM
I like a lot of Pinnock recordings a GREAT deal!
The irony is that I find his Water Music effort the best I have heard to date.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 14, 2007, 04:58:45 AM
I have this set. What's wrong with it? ???
Absolutely nothing if you enjoy them....I just find them "flat".
Quote from: Bogey on May 14, 2007, 05:18:07 AM
The irony is that I find his Water Music effort the best I have heard to date.
His Fireworks, too...utterly magnificent with a rhythmic and dynamic flare that is breathtaking.
Sarge
Quote from: Bogey on May 14, 2007, 05:18:07 AM
Absolutely nothing if you enjoy them....I just find them "flat".
Well, somehow I have managed to enjoy the set. It never occured me it could be flat. I haven't heard any other performance so I can't compare. What would you recommend as "non-flat" version?
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 14, 2007, 05:23:48 AM
His Fireworks, too...utterly magnificent with a rhythmic and dynamic flare that is breathtaking.
Sarge
If you really want to hear a GREAT
Firework I recommend this one:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G7S9FADZL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Bogey on May 14, 2007, 05:18:07 AM
The irony is that I find his Water Music effort the best I have heard to date.
Absolutely nothing if you enjoy them....I just find them "flat".
I just realized that all Water Music and Royal Fireworks recordings should be binned. ;)
Quote from: val on May 14, 2007, 03:57:40 AM
To give only one example:
MUSSORGSKI: Boris Godunov, by Claudio Abbado (with Kotcherga, Leiferkus). A version without life, presence (the choir in the first scene seems an exercise in the Conservatory, when compared to the Melik-Pachaev version) and with the most mediocre Boris I ever heard. And that has nothing to do with the choice of the original version or the one of Rimski.
Good example Val. Wholeheartedly seconded.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PX2CEZB2L._AA240_.jpg)
Q
Quote from: Que on May 14, 2007, 09:46:56 AM
Good example Val. Wholeheartedly seconded.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PX2CEZB2L._AA240_.jpg)
Q
If I am not mistaken the libretto for that recording is in Russian-Cyrillic (and English). Now unless you can read Cyrillic what use is it ???
Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are: I might have binned.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2007, 09:50:07 AM
If I am not mistaken the libretto for that recording is in Russian-Cyrillic
You could say simply,
in Russian. It is Russian transliterated into Roman letters which is unusual 8)
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2007, 09:50:07 AM
If I am not mistaken the libretto for that recording is in Russian-Cyrillic (and English). Now unless you can read Cyrillic what use is it ???
Well, it also contains a transliteration of the Russian text in Latin script, which is quite handy and can be used to familiarize yourself with the Cyrillic.
Q
Quote from: karlhenning on May 14, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
You could say simply, in Russian. It is Russian transliterated into Roman letters which is unusual 8)
Yes, that is what I meant. Usually we get a phonetic translation which sort of gives you a sense what the singers are saying. But if we get it in pure Russian and you are not familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet then you might as well be reading Egyptian.
Quote from: Que on May 14, 2007, 09:57:20 AM
Well, it also contains a transliteration of the Russian text in Latin script, which is quite handy and can be used to familiarize yourself with the Cyrillic.
Q
True, but that involves one more level of the learning curve. Why can't they do what EMI does and just give you the Latin phonetic spelling. Because of that I haven't listened to this recording.
Quote from: Que on May 14, 2007, 09:57:20 AM
Well, it also contains a transliteration of the Russian text in Latin script, which is quite handy and can be used to familiarize yourself with the Cyrillic.
Depending :-)
Unattaching the smiley, the booklet in the Delos recordings of the
Prokofiev songs (e.g.) has the texts in both English, and in romanized Russian, but the vowels and consonants are not true transcriptions of the Cyrillic, but based on the sound. For example: a voiced consonant, such as
b, when at the end of a word becomes 'de-voiced', so that
b will be pronounced
p . . . so in these liner notes, the transliteration will have
p even if it is
b, but in a position where it sounds
p.
Personally, I find that annoying 8)
Before I go to the opera, it would be nice to have heard a good performance of Godunov, to prepare my self! Bought Oropax already. ;D
Suggestions?
A lot of recordings you don't have to bin. send Pollini's Hammerklavier, Guilini's Giovanni and C. Kleiber's LvB 5&7 in my general direction, and music I love are secured as Christmas presents.
Now here's a real stinker:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3116870.jpg)
Kleiber's versions of Beethoven's Fifth and Seventh were also a huge disappointment.
Quote from: Valentino on May 14, 2007, 10:18:17 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3116870.jpg)
Very stylish cover art. I like! :)
Quote from: Valentino on May 14, 2007, 10:18:17 AM
Now here's a real stinker:
Too bad! I've heard a few of those Red Seal reissues which I've found outstanding.
Quote from: Valentino on May 14, 2007, 10:18:17 AM
A lot of recordings you don't have to bin. send Pollini's Hammerklavier, Guilini's Giovanni and C. Kleiber's LvB 5&7 in my general direction, and music I love are secured as Christmas presents.
Now here's a real stinker:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3116870.jpg)
Knowing the original release ever so briefly, I secondo that stinko. $:)
I should be precise. It's the original release of the Midsummer Night's Dream thats stinking. I haven't heard the reissue. The enginers must have had a field day, turning knobs, turning knobs. No dynamics, only reverb. I just don't get to the music.
This recording is from the late 50s. I've had the recording since then, but I've never been able to warm up to this plodding version of Brahms First. It is often a critic's first choice.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DGEE81G0L._AA240_.jpg%5Dhttp://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DGEE81G0L._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: 71 dB on May 14, 2007, 05:28:02 AM
Well, somehow I have managed to enjoy the set. It never occured me it could be flat. I haven't heard any other performance so I can't compare. What would you recommend as "non-flat" version?
Though not a whole set, this one for example (samples included via the link). I am hopeful that they finish the set off in the near future.:
(http://art.towerrecords.com/coverart.asp?S=1881898&X=178&Y=178)
http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1881898&title=Corelli%3a+6+Concerti+Grossi+Op+6+no+1-6+%2f+Kuijken%2c+et+al
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)
What do you know? Just grabbed a stack of cds out of my car, one of which was the above (thought I would give it another spin....still find it flat) and this particular one, and only this one, out of the dozen I had on the passangers seat, was sopping wet from a torrent of rain we just had here in Denver tonight (my passenger's window was not all the way up). Must be a true sign for me to "toss it". However, I will ship this one for free to any GMG'r that would like a water-damaged copy....it's yours with a simple PM to me with your address. First to do so has it....that is after the paper work has dried out a bit. The 2 discs look just fine and the booklet should dry in still readable fashion. Let me know. I would throw in the Handel disc that I mentioned earlier as well, but that was passed down to me by my father-in-law, so that has to stay here....sentimental? You bet!
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2007, 09:50:07 AM
If I am not mistaken the libretto for that recording is in Russian-Cyrillic (and English). Now unless you can read Cyrillic what use is it ???
No, seriously, what
possible use can there be for a
transcribed/transliterated version?! ??? I've never been able to wade through those unnatural looking imitations of a language that simply does not and cannot work in the depraved Latin transmogrification. I resent transcribed/transliterated Russian as deeply as possible! 0:)
(And, BTW, the alphabet is very closely related to the Latin one - learning how to read it shouldn't take you more than half an hour - reading it fluently is another matter but I understand you just want to get a general idea of where in the text the singers are...)
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2007, 08:38:18 AM
If you really want to hear a GREAT Firework I recommend this one:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G7S9FADZL._AA240_.jpg)
You
know I have that one, PW, both LP and CD. It is a great one of course but if I
had to choose, I'd take Pinnock (luckily I don't have to :) )
Sarge
Quote from: Bogey on May 14, 2007, 07:37:37 PM
Though not a whole set, this one for example (samples included via the link). I am hopeful that they finish the set off in the near future.:
(http://art.towerrecords.com/coverart.asp?S=1881898&X=178&Y=178)
http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1881898&title=Corelli%3a+6+Concerti+Grossi+Op+6+no+1-6+%2f+Kuijken%2c+et+al
Thanks! I listened to some samples. Sounds faster than Pinnock. I'm not sure if that's what these concertos need. ??? The fact that it's not complete set shows disrespect.
"Corelli is a minor composer so we only record half of the set."
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X4WVXTAJL._SS500_.jpg)
Who knew Beethoven could be so dull?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X4RZKKX0L._SS500_.jpg)
Would not be out of place in an elevator.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/410KVFM5X1L._SS500_.jpg)
A Tallis Fantasia of stunning mediocrity.
Quote from: canninator on May 15, 2007, 05:33:37 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X4WVXTAJL._SS500_.jpg)
Who knew Beethoven could be so dull?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X4RZKKX0L._SS500_.jpg)
Would not be out of place in an elevator.
That's what I'm talking about...someone responding to the OP's guidelines ("What one recording, or perhaps more, do you think is nowhere near as good as reviewers/fan say?") Bravo, Canninator.
Of course I utterly,
utterly disagree with you. Barenboim's old school, romantic Beethoven played by one of the greatest orchestras in the world today was such a breath of fresh air after decades of HIP and HIP-influenced Beethoven interpretations. As for Barbirolli's Mahler: sublime stuff.
Sarge
Quote from: canninator on May 15, 2007, 05:33:37 AM
A Tallis Fantasia of stunning mediocrity.
In that case these 3 men do not know what they are talking about:"There have certainly been many wonderful recordings of the popular short orchestral pieces of Ralph Vaughan Williams...For someone coming to these pieces for the first time, though, this issue deserves real consideration...played here by one of the top orchestras Down Under, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra led by British conductor James Judd, whose recordings with this orchestra and the Florida Philharmonic have made his name familiar to discerning record collectors...This issue deserves real praise. Even though this is a budget CD the performances are comparable to the top echelon of full-price releases, and are better than many of them. You can't go wrong here. The playing is nuanced, the sound is crystal clear. The wide dynamic range makes it possible to hear the utterly soft playing called for in, say, the Tallis Fantasia as well as the full climaxes in that and the other pieces. Recommended."- Scott Morrison, Amazon.com, August 2003
"From Gershwin, Copland, and Bernstein, James Judd steers his New Zealand Symphony across the Atlantic towards two of their less glitzy contemporary's most popular bon-bons. Vaughan William's less well-known but atmospheric Norfolk Rhapsody No. 1, plus his tone poem In The Fen Country and five-movement Concerto Grosso are thrown in as much more than makeweight material alongside the almost too familiar Greensleeves and the shimmering Tallis Fantasia. The peripatetic James Judd, recently at the Barbican, seems to be making good down under, these are bargain-price performances to rival any on the market."- Anthony Holden, The Observer, 6/22/03
"Helped by vivid sound, James Judd conducts the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra in glowing performances of these favourite [sic] Vaughan Williams works. There have been a number of discs from this orchestra in recent years, but here Judd shows what quality of player the orchestra now attracts, especially in its ripely resonant string tone. The whole is nicely balanced in a warm but clear acoustic. There is good solo work, too, from the leading string players as well as the woodwind and brass soloists."- Edward Greenfield, Gramophone, August 2003
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2007, 03:45:38 AM
You know I have that one, PW, both LP and CD. It is a great one of course but if I had to choose, I'd take Pinnock (luckily I don't have to :) )
Sarge
Isn't that a great disc? I don't know much about the Cleveland Symphonic Winds but wow ! I certainly prefer that to the water-downed HIP Handel out there.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
What one recording, or perhaps more, do you think is nowhere near as good as reviewers/fan say? What are the over-rated recordings out there?
The
Järvi set of complete
Prokofiev symphonies IMO (and quite a bit of that massive
Järvi/Prokofiev project, which was massively rushed to market for the
Prokofiev centenary).
Quote from: Danny on May 14, 2007, 10:35:36 AM
Kleiber's versions of Beethoven's Fifth and Seventh were also a huge disappointment.
Really, what do you not like about it? There are better 7ths out there but of the 5th this is the pinnacle. Just the opening motif for example, no other conductor quite manages the transition from the fermata to the subsequent three note figure quite like Kleiber. The only one who is similar is (surprisingly) Gardiner. ALSO, the transition between the third and fourth movement in terms of dynamic contrast is magnificent.
I can understand if that is not your favorite 5th, but to say it belongs to the dustbin???
Quote from: johnshade on May 14, 2007, 03:23:09 PM
This recording is from the late 50s. I've had the recording since then, but I've never been able to warm up to this plodding version of Brahms First. It is often a critic's first choice.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DGEE81G0L._AA240_.jpg%5Dhttp://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DGEE81G0L._AA240_.jpg)
Me as well and I love Klemeperer! Never really got on with the cycle that much...
Quote from: SimonGodders on May 15, 2007, 06:15:31 AM
Me as well and I love Klemeperer! Never really got on with the cycle that much...
Which Klemperer Beethoven CD's are the ones to get?
(I suppose the Beethoven Bistro is the appropriate place to respond) :)
Good grief, but I suppose it had to happen...
...somebody with no idea of what puts a set of recordings aside as truly 'Great' and what does not.
Sod consensus, whassat?
Step forward Que, as in: 'Haven't a...'
Do, please, tell us what on this planet is better than, for example, the Klemperer/Ludwig/Vickers/Berry/EMI 'Fidelio.' Or hasn't it happened yet?
Yours,
Truly Puzzled.
How some people love to be contraversial - "anything recommended by Gramophone", Kleiber's Beethoven 5 & 7, Giulini's Don Giovanni, Klemperer's Fidelio, that sort of thing. Why! I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the Callas/Da Sabata Tosca, though now that I've brought it up, I'm sure someone will. I would emphatically disagree, by the way. Nor would I want to bin any of the aforementioned recordings, though I might not always think they are the best around, but that's a different argument.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 15, 2007, 06:32:27 AM
How some people love to be contraversial - "anything recommended by Gramophone", Kleiber's Beethoven 5 & 7, Giulini's Don Giovanni, Klemperer's Fidelio, that sort of thing. Why!
Don't know about the others But as far as Giulini's
Don is concerned, I say bin it for Schwarzkopf alone. She sings a good Marschallin and Ariadne but she has not a snowball chance in hell chance of singing Mozart. It is grotesque. I bought that recording 10 years ago because ALL the magazines say it is THE
Don to buy, boy did I regret it.
In forty years of collecting I've only discarded a handful of recordings but none were critical hits. (Is Rattle's Janacek Sinfonietta loved by anyone?) I can usually find something good in almost any recording that others judge great so threads like this usually leave me speechless. But I just thought of one that meets the OP's guidelines: this was critically acclaimed and is often cited here when Nielsen recommendations are made. But I really dislike Blomstedt's Third:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/goodmusic/N23Bl.jpg)
The major problem is in the first movement. It sounds and feels like a metronome is leading the orchestra. This isn't conducting, it's mechanical, emotionless stick-waving. The pages leading up to the central climax, that incredible 60 seconds when the waltz finally breaks out in full glory, go for nothing. There is no sense of anticipation, no sense that anything major is about to happen, no tingle (listen to Bernstein to find out how this should go). When the symphony finally bursts into dance, there is no sense of arrival let alone catharsis. Bah...into the trash it goes...
...or would if it weren't for that marvelous "Four Temperaments." :)
Sarge
I'm sorry Sir Simon but...
(http://diskunion.net/admin/cgi-bin/render.php?id=114962&tbl=mast_jacket)
I just can't forgive that drippy Mars. From Berlin? Come on... The rest of it is competently played but also lacking in spark. And as La Folia (http://www.lafolia.com/archive/nevin/nevin200609pluto.html) says, yes, the sonics are dull, and I can't forgive EMI for that either.
And especially bad considering his CBSO recording was so good:
(http://images.ciao.com/ide/images/products/normal/779/The_Planets_Sinfonia_Da_Requie_Various__1464779.jpg)
The asteroid fillers are nice to have, but not really that special. And it was just hyped beyond belief.
If you can get it cheap, well go ahead, but there are so many lesser known Planets that are way better. More than I can even count on one hand...
Will probably be back with some more duds later.
Quote from: Greta on May 15, 2007, 07:05:43 AM
I'm sorry Sir Simon but...
(http://diskunion.net/admin/cgi-bin/render.php?id=114962&tbl=mast_jacket)
I just can't forgive that drippy Mars. From Berlin? Come on... The rest of it is competently played but also lacking in spark. And as La Folia (http://www.lafolia.com/archive/nevin/nevin200609pluto.html) says, yes, the sonics are dull, and I can't forgive EMI for that either.
And especially bad considering his CBSO recording was so good:
(http://images.ciao.com/ide/images/products/normal/779/The_Planets_Sinfonia_Da_Requie_Various__1464779.jpg)
The asteroid fillers are nice to have, but not really that special. And it was just hyped beyond belief.
If you can get it cheap, well go ahead, but there are so many lesser known Planets that are way better. More than I can even count on one hand...
Will probably be back with some more duds later.
Agree - the new Rattle Planets is about the worst on the market with Mars particularly weak.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2007, 07:00:54 AM
(Is Rattle's Janacek Sinfonietta loved by anyone?)
Sarge
Gramophone apparently loves it. So much so they recommend it in the
Good CD Guide. They write:
It is brilliantly played, with 12 trumpets coming up gleaming in the final climax. An enticing proposition !
Quote from: PefectWagneriteIsn't that a great disc? I don't know much about the Cleveland Symphonic Winds but wow ! I certainly prefer that to the water-downed HIP Handel out there.
Oh my, is it. Fantastically played and recorded. The balance between the sections is perfection, and a friend of mine who is a sound engineer used the SACD of that to balance his system when he moved. :D
Frederick Fennell was a wind band god, and his Cleveland recordings are among my great treasures. Hey it's the Cleveland Orchestra's winds, what would you expect?
You absolutely can't go wrong with the SACD, which includes the most stunning
Lincolnshire Posy by Percy Grainger...
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=7938
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 15, 2007, 07:12:17 AM
Gramophone apparently loves it. So much so they recommend it in the Good CD Guide. They write:
It is brilliantly played, with 12 trumpets coming up gleaming in the final climax. An enticing proposition !
Well, of course Gramophone would love it ;D Okay then, into the bin it goes.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2007, 07:13:40 AM
Well, of course Gramophone would love it ;D Okay then, into the bin it goes.
Sarge
I guess EMI is in bed with Gramophone because they love it enough to put it as part of the GROC series, which means they think it deserving of such recognition as Karajan's
Meistersinger or Furtwangler's
Tristan.
Quote from: Greta on May 15, 2007, 07:05:43 AM
I'm sorry Sir Simon but...
(http://diskunion.net/admin/cgi-bin/render.php?id=114962&tbl=mast_jacket)
And especially bad considering his CBSO recording was so good:
(http://images.ciao.com/ide/images/products/normal/779/The_Planets_Sinfonia_Da_Requie_Various__1464779.jpg)
Yes, this one is delightful.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 15, 2007, 07:12:17 AM
Gramophone apparently loves it. So much so they recommend it in the Good CD Guide. They write:
It is brilliantly played, with 12 trumpets coming up gleaming in the final climax. An enticing proposition !
Yes, Gramophone loved Rattle's BPO
Planets too..they're usually more than happy to lick his feet. And I personally like him and his conducting, his good stuff is great, so that makes the bad even more hard to fathom.
This is absolutely classic from the Gramophone forum, a long thread about that release and their partialness:
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/mainforum.asp?messagesectionID=53&messageID=49318
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 15, 2007, 07:16:22 AM
I guess EMI is in bed with Gramophone because they love it enough to put it as part of the GROC series, which means they think it deserving of such recognition as Karajan's Meistersinger or Furtwangler's Tristan.
Perhaps the fault of EMI in using the word 'Great' in the first place. An overused word IMO. I'ld have called the series RGROC - Really Good Recordings of the Century ( :D). Admittedly not as catchy, but true!
Anyway, that whole series is about to give place to BROM (Bitchinest Recordings of the Millennium) ;D
Quote from: 71 dB on May 15, 2007, 05:51:13 AM
In that case these 3 men do not know what they are talking about:
"There have certainly been many wonderful recordings of the popular short orchestral pieces of Ralph Vaughan Williams...For someone coming to these pieces for the first time, though, this issue deserves real consideration...played here by one of the top orchestras Down Under, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra led by British conductor James Judd, whose recordings with this orchestra and the Florida Philharmonic have made his name familiar to discerning record collectors...This issue deserves real praise. Even though this is a budget CD the performances are comparable to the top echelon of full-price releases, and are better than many of them. You can't go wrong here. The playing is nuanced, the sound is crystal clear. The wide dynamic range makes it possible to hear the utterly soft playing called for in, say, the Tallis Fantasia as well as the full climaxes in that and the other pieces. Recommended."
- Scott Morrison, Amazon.com, August 2003
"From Gershwin, Copland, and Bernstein, James Judd steers his New Zealand Symphony across the Atlantic towards two of their less glitzy contemporary's most popular bon-bons. Vaughan William's less well-known but atmospheric Norfolk Rhapsody No. 1, plus his tone poem In The Fen Country and five-movement Concerto Grosso are thrown in as much more than makeweight material alongside the almost too familiar Greensleeves and the shimmering Tallis Fantasia. The peripatetic James Judd, recently at the Barbican, seems to be making good down under, these are bargain-price performances to rival any on the market."
- Anthony Holden, The Observer, 6/22/03
"Helped by vivid sound, James Judd conducts the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra in glowing performances of these favourite [sic] Vaughan Williams works. There have been a number of discs from this orchestra in recent years, but here Judd shows what quality of player the orchestra now attracts, especially in its ripely resonant string tone. The whole is nicely balanced in a warm but clear acoustic. There is good solo work, too, from the leading string players as well as the woodwind and brass soloists."
- Edward Greenfield, Gramophone, August 2003
I'm with Hurwitz on this one
Naxos has made some very fine recordings in New Zealand, and some not so fine. Unfortunately this new release falls into the latter category. James Judd leads a frankly weird performance of the stunningly beautiful Tallis Fantasia. The second string orchestra sounds miles away when contrasted to the main body, making their exchanges excessively disjointed, but when interacting with the solo quartet the smaller group suddenly pops up loudly front and center. And the soloists are far too close; the violist's breathing is quite audible. Interpretively, the problems start right at the beginning: Judd's "largo sostenuto" is certainly slow, but hardly well sustained. He plods through the introduction and initial statement of Tallis' theme, and then practically double-times the fortissimo counterstatement--a needlessly cheap tactic. "Appassionato" does not mean "play it faster."
Judd's attention to dynamics is also extremely haphazard--in particular he's consistently too loud in passages calling for the full string orchestra (possibly also a fault of the engineering), and he starts the run-up to the big climax so forcefully he has nowhere to build. When the climax arrives ("Largamente", says the composer), instead of broadening the tempo Judd starts accelerating, a curious move particularly as he ignores the preceding "animato" indication entirely. In other words, he's slow when he should be quick, and quick when he should be slow. There's nothing wrong with tempo flexibility for dramatic effect, and the score allows plenty of freedom in this arena, but Judd's decisions practically amount to a misrepresentation of the shape of the piece. The last couple of minutes especially feature an almost random assortment of gratuitous tempo adjustments, none of them possessing any basis in the written text, or more to the point, clear expressive purpose. Of course, the music itself is so gorgeous that anyone who doesn't know the work might not notice anything wrong, but fans of the composer and of this piece will likely disapprove.Anyway, it's always possible to find some reviewers who like a recorded piece and some who do not, it's all a matter of personal opinion. I'm just blessed that my opinion is always right ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2007, 05:49:35 AM
Of course I utterly, utterly disagree with you. Barenboim's old school, romantic Beethoven played by one of the greatest orchestras in the world today was such a breath of fresh air after decades of HIP and HIP-influenced Beethoven interpretations. As for Barbirolli's Mahler: sublime stuff.
Sarge
I don't think Barbirolli's Mahler comes off until the Adagio (famously recorded first and at night) but I've lost interest by then. I'm not really a great fan of Bruno Walter but I love the original 1938 recording, full of mystery and shadow.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 15, 2007, 06:41:30 AM
Don't know about the others But as far as Giulini's Don is concerned, I say bin it for Schwarzkopf alone. She sings a good Marschallin and Ariadne but she has not a snowball chance in hell chance of singing Mozart. It is grotesque. I bought that recording 10 years ago because ALL the magazines say it is THE Don to buy, boy did I regret it.
And all I can say is that Schwarzkopf was one of the greatest Mozart singers of her day. I'd rather listen to her Elvira, than almost any other soprano, or mezzo, I know. Her portrayal on the Furtwangler recording from Salzburg is markedly different, apparently to accomodate the very different qualities of the respective Annas (Grummer for Furtwangler and Sutherland for Giulini), and create a better ensemble. I don't know of any other soprano with the intelligence to even consider such a thing.
Oh, and lest you think that I am just following the Brit and
Gramophone point of view, let me quote the the American critic London Green in
The Metropolitan Opera Guide to Recorded Opera :
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf is a classic Elvira, outraged and loving, grand and a little absurd all at once. She is brilliant in the recitatives and vivid, exact, and inimitable in the music.Perhaps the fact that his first name is London, helped him to appreciate the subtleties of this great performance.
What fun this thread is.....slaughtering some very sacred cows. I am tempted to suggest that some people sit on their taste, but I would never hint it.
The Barbirolli Mahler 9 is my touchstone recording, the first movement usually feels like an entire angst ridden feast all on its own. The Giulini Mozart has not been admired for so long just because of Gramophone; but performance styles change and although I do like the set, I prefer a more bitingly dramatic approach. Schwartzkopf not a Mozart singer? A leg pull surely. Beethoven 5th from Kleiber.....another top choice trashed.
There are others to defend, but I say let the bloodletting continue.
The Boulez Parsifal; if I still had it, I would take pleasure in sending it off to Room 101. Far too fast and lacking in mystery, also it has the jolly, screeching, wobbling input of Dame G Jones. I wonder if she is the reason the Bernstein Rosenkavalier has been out of circulation for so very long?
Mike
Quote from: canninator on May 15, 2007, 07:51:37 AM
Anyway, it's always possible to find some reviewers who like a recorded piece and some who do not, it's all a matter of personal opinion. I'm just blessed that my opinion is always right ;D
Exactly! So, what is the point of this thread if we all have to make our OWN opinion about what belongs to the bin?
Quote from: 71 dB on May 15, 2007, 10:14:11 AM
Exactly! So, what is the point of this thread if we all have to make our OWN opinion about what belongs to the bin?
That is the
exact point of it.
Mike
On first reading, I thought this thread was a 'best of' ;D
So much for taste
So much good stuff going in the bin from you guys, don't bin 'em send 'em to Lancashire ;D
Tony, I bet you have most of what is being shucked off here!
Mike
Quote from: knight on May 15, 2007, 10:24:27 AM
That is the exact point of it.
Mike! You freewheeling freethinker, you!
It must be catching.
Mike
Quote from: knight on May 15, 2007, 10:30:23 AM
Tony, I bet you have most of what is being shucked off here!
Mike
Quite a few, and proud of them ;D
Perlman/Ashkenazy as Fluff in Beethoven, the Forum gets funnier by the moment!!
Paul, Paul there's no finer LvB 7th than Kleiber and IMO only Szell's live 5th comes close
I love opinions, but no need for Pistols at Dawn :D
Now, can anyone beat the most awful recording of all time...Mahler 5, Rozhdestvensky on Rusky Revelation....and yes, I kept that as well 8)
Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on May 15, 2007, 10:42:00 AM
Now, can anyone beat the most awful recording of all time...Mahler 5, Rozhdestvensky on Rusky Revelation....and yes, I kept that as well 8)
For the Mother-in-Law, no doubt! 8)
Quote from: Hector on May 15, 2007, 06:32:07 AM
Good grief, but I suppose it had to happen...
...somebody with no idea of what puts a set of recordings aside as truly 'Great' and what does not.
Sod consensus, whassat?
Step forward Que, as in: 'Haven't a...'
Do, please, tell us what on this planet is better than, for example, the Klemperer/Ludwig/Vickers/Berry/EMI 'Fidelio.' Or hasn't it happened yet?
Yours,
Truly Puzzled.
Maybe you are puzzled but I mentioned two recordings.
FYI there was a Fidelio thread on the old GMG and a lot of favourites were mentioned
other than the Klemperer.
QuoteStep forward Que, as in: 'Haven't a...'
Yes, I have and know my own preferences, thank you very much.
Yours too :),
Q
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 15, 2007, 06:32:27 AM
How some people love to be controversial - "anything recommended by Gramophone", Kleiber's Beethoven 5 & 7, Giulini's Don Giovanni, Klemperer's Fidelio, that sort of thing. Why! I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the Callas/Da Sabata Tosca, though now that I've brought it up, I'm sure someone will. I would emphatically disagree, by the way. Nor would I want to bin any of the aforementioned recordings, though I might not always think they are the best around, but that's a different argument.
Tsaras, it is not my
objective to be controversial but it
is the whole point of this thread to mention "famous" recordings that disappointed. And that is the interesting thing about it. I could mention some obscure ones if you like? ;D (Or all the "famous" recordings I
do like - which would be a by far greater number.)
And why mention Giulini's Don and Klemperer's Fidelio? Because I found them disappointing, that's why.
I like the Callas/De Sabata Tosca btw... 8)
I also like/adore Klemperer's Brahms, mentioned by others as dissapointing - see me getting upset over it?
Q
Quote from: Que on May 15, 2007, 11:54:37 AM
Tsaras, it is not my objective to be controversial but it is the whole point of this thread to mention "famous" recordings that disappointed. And that is the interesting thing about it. I could mention some obscure ones if you like? ;D (Or all the "famous" recordings I do like - which would be a by far greater number.)
And why mention Giulini's Don and Klemperer's Fidelio? Because I found them disappointing, that's why.
I like the Callas/De Sabata Tosca btw... 8)
I also like/adore Klemperer's Brahms, mentioned by others as dissapointing - see me getting upset over it?
Q
But my point is that, although the Klemperer
Fidelio, for instance, might not be my favourite recording of the opera, to suggest that one should
bin it, is to suggest that it is enirely without merit, which it isn't. Ditto many of the recordings suggested in this thread. I also deplore this American obsession that anything recpmmended by
Gramophone, should be ignored, and this attitude, that we Brits praise to the hilt anything recorded by British artistes, when this is patently not true.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 15, 2007, 02:22:11 PM
I also deplore this American obsession that anything recpmmended by Gramophone, should be ignored, and this attitude, that we Brits praise to the hilt anything recorded by British artistes, when this is patently not true.
Although I certainly don't feel that Gramophone recommendations are meaningless, I do detect some British bias from that magazine as well as British websites such as Gramophone.
I want to emphasize that I expect such bias and consider it normal and healthy.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 15, 2007, 05:32:48 AM
*Thanks! I listened to some samples. Sounds faster than Pinnock. I'm not sure if that's what these concertos need. ??? **The fact that it's not complete set shows disrespect. "Corelli is a minor composer so we only record half of the set."
*Maybe not....just suits my taste more.
**So, I guess your generalization of "disrespect" would have to be grafted onto
all those that have recorded excerpts from this complete set? Would this generalization also apply to recordings of other excerpts of other compositions by other composers? I agree I rather have a "complete" recording of any work, but I cannot say that I equate the recording of an excerpt with the word "disrespect". I just cannot see La Petite Bande sitting in the studio saying, "Corelli's Op. 6 ain't worth the effort to record from start to finish....let's "dis" him and only record half. That will show him what we think of his work."
By the way, FWIW, I decided to look up their discography....guess what? They did record Nos. 7-12 in 1977....probably just never made it to disc, or is out of print. Guess they added No. 5 along the way since it is on the disc. Here is the link:
http://www.lapetitebande.be/
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 15, 2007, 02:22:11 PM
But my point is that, although the Klemperer Fidelio, for instance, might not be my favourite recording of the opera, to suggest that one should bin it, is to suggest that it is enirely without merit, which it isn't. Ditto many of the recordings suggested in this thread. I also deplore this American obsession that anything recpmmended by Gramophone, should be ignored, and this attitude, that we Brits praise to the hilt anything recorded by British artistes, when this is patently not true.
Tsaras, of course Klemperer's Beethoven is not without merit. But I think it is in any case
overrated.
Quote from: Michel on May 13, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
What one recording, or perhaps more, do you think is nowhere near as good as reviewers/fan say? What are the over-rated recordings out there?
I did not take the title of the thread literally: the opening post speaks of
overrated and that's a good criterion.
It would be silly to fall in a simplified dichotomy: either must-have or complete garbage. But putting so called "must-haves" in perspective a bit, seems a healthy idea. We don't ALL
have to like ALL recordings branded as "great" or famous. And minority views should be allowed to be expressed - right?? 8)
I agree with Don: Gramophone and Penguin have their merit, but there certainly exists a Britsh bias. British conductors, Britsh composers, British singers.
But I dont mind. There is also an American bias, a French and a German. As an Dutch outsider I'm neutral. ;D
Q
Quote from: Que on May 15, 2007, 11:54:37 AM
Maybe you are puzzled but I mentioned two recordings.
FYI there was a Fidelio thread on the old GMG and a lot of favourites were mentioned other than the Klemperer.
Yes, I have and know my own preferences, thank you very much.
Yours too :),
Q
Tsaras, it is not my objective to be controversial but it is the whole point of this thread to mention "famous" recordings that disappointed. And that is the interesting thing about it. I could mention some obscure ones if you like? ;D (Or all the "famous" recordings I do like - which would be a by far greater number.)
And why mention Giulini's Don and Klemperer's Fidelio? Because I found them disappointing, that's why.
I like the Callas/De Sabata Tosca btw... 8)
I also like/adore Klemperer's Brahms, mentioned by others as dissapointing - see me getting upset over it?
Q
That's it, you backpedal like mad.
It is not just simply a question of taste that you lack, here.
Mind you, I suspect that if you kept a thread going long enough there would be more like you trashing the recognised "Greats."
No, don't get upset, in fact don't bother to reply, that'll show me...oh, you already have!
Quote from: Que on May 15, 2007, 09:14:27 PM
Tsaras, of course Klemperer's Beethoven is not without merit. But I think it is in any case overrated.
I did not take the title of the thread literally: the opening post speaks of overrated and that's a good criterion.
It would be silly to fall in a simplified dichotomy: either must-have or complete garbage. But putting so called "must-haves" in perspective a bit, seems a healthy idea. We don't ALL have to like ALL recordings branded as "great" or famous. And minority views should be allowed to be expressed - right?? 8)
I agree with Don: Gramophone and Penguin have their merit, but there certainly exists a Britsh bias. British conductors, Britsh composers, British singers.
But I dont mind. There is also an American bias, a French and a German. As an Dutch outsider I'm neutral. ;D
Q
I always used to say when in a hole it is best to stop digging.
It clearly states One recording you think everyone should bin. You offered several.
Now you berate Gramophone for favouring Brits like C. Kleiber and Klemperer.
Being Dutch is no excuse. Some of us expect more from our European partners.
Don't worry, you are not alone. Somebody wants to bin Kertesz's Dvorak. Perhaps. they have played it to much?
Quote from: Hector on May 17, 2007, 06:35:03 AM
That's it, you backpedal like mad.
It is not just simply a question of taste that you lack, here.
Mind you, I suspect that if you kept a thread going long enough there would be more like you trashing the recognised "Greats."
No, don't get upset, in fact don't bother to reply, that'll show me...oh, you already have!
Hector, I really don't know what you're on about.
QuoteIt clearly states One recording you think everyone should bin. You offered several.
Quite so, I overlooked that. 8)
Q
Quote from: canninator on May 15, 2007, 05:33:37 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X4WVXTAJL._SS500_.jpg)
Who knew Beethoven could be so dull?
Having recently posted in the 'Barenboim' thread that this set didn't do it for me, I found myself laughing out loud when I read this. There's something to be said for his Symphonies Nos. 7 and 8, but the rest left me cold ... especially his No. 9, during which my mind wandered. Wildly. I still insist that, of the interpretations of Beethoven's Symphonies that I've heard, I'd go for Abbado's VPO set on DG every time if I want something that's 'big-boned', romantic and unidiomatic.
Quote(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/410KVFM5X1L._SS500_.jpg)
A Tallis Fantasia of stunning mediocrity.
Okay, we're on hallowed ground, here. The Tallis Fantasia is a favourite of mine, and I'd let the Devil take my unborn child if it was the only way I could hang on to two particular recordings of this work, both conducted by Sir Andrew Davis. Having said this, I'd be sad to see this recording by Judd slip from my grasp. I downloaded this CD some months ago, and it's been on my MP3 player more times than any other album. I admit, that's for the Norfolk Rhapsody No. 1. But I do also very much enjoy the Tallis Fantasia. Okay, it's far from 'ideal' in the opinions of some, but it has a charm and a quality that's quite endearing ... and the more I hear it, the more it appeals. If you're looking to bin a recording of this work, Lenny's disaster with the NYP from 1976 is a prime candidate. That man murders the piece in a torturous rendition that makes for the most painful 17+ minutes of music I've ever suffered.
This recording has received near-hysterical praise in some quarters (particularly, the British classical press):
Vanska: Beethoven Symphony No. 9 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=BIS-SACD-1616)
Now, I don't mean to sound cussed, but why, exactly, is this good? I've tried to 'get it' on 12 separate occasions, always reapproaching it with the idea in mind that I missed something the last time. Even Barenboim's Ninth got some reaction from me ... this just leaves me cold every time.
Well that's alright Mark, don't fret about it dear fellow.
Karajan is the best shot you can give to a better interpretation, and if HIP, look no further than Gardiner.
Using FBI magnification methods, the text below zoomed out, filtered and sharpened turned out to be a hidden message.
Original copy:
Quote from: orbital on May 13, 2007, 12:18:38 PM
FBI-style magnification method determined this image to be :o
The extract find found below:
We have lots of discussion here about recordings we all recommend. But what about those we recommend others DON'T buy? Well, now we have a thread for this, too.
I'm going to kick off with this lacklustre effort:
(http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1741616.jpg)
Now it's your turn. :)
Well, it of course bringing the wrath of GMG over me, but I would select Wagner.
If it would cause as much pain as it does me, I would not even wish that to them.
8)
My first copy of the Beethoven symphonic cycle - one of only two CDs I've ever just given away. It was the Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra conducted by Some Guy, and the performances were just dribble: overzealous timpanists; underwhelming singers; very little sense of direction with the melodies...just absolutely appaling versions of great pieces, topped off with unexpected background noises (what sounds like a car driving by in the fifth).
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 02:52:42 AM
Well, it of course bringing the wrath of GMG over me, but I would select Wagner.
If it would cause as much pain as it does me, I would not even wish that to them.
8)
Come on, Harry. Have you a particular recording in mind?
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 02:48:51 AM
(http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1741616.jpg)
Gimme a break ..........
I dissent
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 02:52:42 AM
Well, it of course bringing the wrath of GMG over me, but I would select Wagner.
You'd treat your enemies to such great music?
One of the few things I've ever returned immediately because the performance disgusted me was the Ashkenazy/Perlman/Harrell Tchaikovsky Piano Trio. I just couldn't believe how sloppy they sounded. Particularly Harrell. I took it back and got Pletnev/Oliveira/Rosen instead, and that is one of the best recordings of this work ever.
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 03:04:33 AM
Come on, Harry. Have you a particular recording in mind?
Yes, all of them! :o
Any piano recording where the pianist hums along! I literally yell at the CD. SHUT UP!
Quote from: hornteacher on June 07, 2007, 03:17:51 AM
Any piano recording where the pianist hums along! I literally yell at the CD. SHUT UP!
So that's Gould out, then. ;D
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 03:19:19 AM
So that's Gould out, then. ;D
And Jeno Jando, the humming boy too! ;D
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 03:26:44 AM
And Jeno Jando, the humming boy too! ;D
On which discs? I've yet to hear him hum? (Trying say
that after a few pints. ;D)
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 03:27:52 AM
On which discs? I've yet to hear him hum? (Trying say that after a few pints. ;D)
Clear question, definitive answer, on all of them! ;D
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 03:29:41 AM
Clear question, definitive answer, on all of them! ;D
Totally disagree, Harry. Categorically untrue, old boy. I have several Jando CDs, and on none of them can he be heard to hum. You'll need to provide definite evidence there, my friend. :)
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 03:45:28 AM
Totally disagree, Harry. Categorically untrue, old boy. I have several Jando CDs, and on none of them can he be heard to hum. You'll need to provide definite evidence there, my friend. :)
O, that is easy, Young hasty Mark, I have very sensitive gear, that's why I hear it, and you not. Lucky dude! ;D
(http://images.ciao.com/iuk/images/products/normal/670/Schulhoff_Chamber_Music__6170670.jpg)
The Schoenberg Quartet's recording of some of Erwin Schulhoff's string quartets. These works deserve a wider audience, but recordings like this would result in the opposite. Horrible, heavy-handed, and dull.
I've heard comments like this about almost everything the Schoenberg Quartet has recorded.
I guess I'll stay away from all their recordings.
The one that always comes to mind is Jian Wang's Bach Cello Suites. I don't know what his problem is, but either he doesn't like Bach, doesn't like the cello or hates music. This is one conflicted individual playing.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31E8007QXYL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 02:52:42 AM
Well, it of course bringing the wrath of GMG over me, but I would select Wagner.
If it would cause as much pain as it does me, I would not even wish that to them.
8)
Not
all the works of a composer as a class,
Harry; but something with which you seem to have little experience: dawggy recordings 8)
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 03:45:28 AM
Totally disagree, Harry. Categorically untrue, old boy. I have several Jando CDs, and on none of them can he be heard to hum. You'll need to provide definite evidence there, my friend. :)
I think the solution must be this: the
Jando recordings are so good, that
Harry hums along, without realizing it. The humming displeases him (though I have no idea why), and he misattributes this displeasure to
Jando.
Quote from: karlhenning on June 07, 2007, 04:41:29 AM
I think the solution must be this: the Jando recordings are so good, that Harry hums along, without realizing it. The humming displeases him (though I have no idea why), and he misattributes this displeasure to Jando.
Well there you are, just try some of the Haydn sonatas recordings, and I will stop humming so that you may hear. ;D
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 04:44:30 AM
Well there you are, just try some of the Haydn sonatas recordings, and I will stop humming so that you may hear. ;D
Could you name and shame a particular disc? I have subscriptions to both Naxos's online listening service and to eMusic, so I can readily access the offending article and confirm (or deny) Jando's extra-musical contribution.
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 04:50:25 AM
Could you name and shame a particular disc? I have subscriptions to both Naxos's online listening service and to eMusic, so I can readily access the offending article and confirm (or deny) Jando's extra-musical contribution.
There is no shame in humming
Mark, but since I threw them in the dustbin some months ago, I have no access anymore to them, but he hums on pretty well all discs Haydn.
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 05:06:30 AM
There is no shame in humming Mark, but since I threw them in the dustbin some months ago, I have no access anymore to them, but he hums on pretty well all discs Haydn.
Indeed, there is no shame at all, Harry. Next month, I shall download a Jando Haydn disc at random and let you know what I hear. :)
Gosh, I just hope Harry was careful about his H-composers, and didn't throw Henning in the dustbin! :)
Quote from: karlhenning on June 07, 2007, 05:13:36 AM
Gosh, I just hope Harry was careful about his H-composers, and didn't throw Henning in the dustbin! :)
No, I have them still, and play them regulary, your latest addition to my collection however which you send me by email, does not work, and I remember that happened before, and so I am deprived of your music, of which I have too little as it is.
Could you not publish the complete works, on say 25 discs?
I pre order, if you don't mind. ;D
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 05:21:41 AM
Could you not publish the complete works, on say 25 discs?
I should be delighted! Only, there is so much of my work which awaits performance, let alone recording :-)
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 02:52:42 AM
Well, it of course bringing the wrath of GMG over me, but I would select Wagner.
If it would cause as much pain as it does me, I would not even wish that to them.
8)
Oh yeah? I wouldn't wish half the stuff you listen to on my worst enemies.
Karl, you are aware in which thread this discussion of your music is taking place, aren't you? ;D
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 07, 2007, 06:01:48 AM
Oh yeah? I wouldn't wish half the stuff you listen to on my worst enemies.
Thank you my friend, much obliged I am sure!
Quote from: Harry on June 07, 2007, 06:09:51 AM
Thank you my friend, much obliged I am sure!
Not that I wouldn't listen to them myself of course ;D
Thielemann's Alpensinfonie. The only record, of which I didn't have a duplicate, that I've ever just given away. His Parsifal redeemed him ( ;)), but nothing will fully ameliorate that Alpensinfonie.
Lothar Zagrosek's Rheingold. The orchestral contribution is really splendid, and - for that reason - I still listen to it on occasion; however, some of the singers I cannot deal with. Wolfgang Probst's vibrato is just too annoying for me. If, like Hotter for Solti, vocal problems begin to creep in after Rheingold, that's OK. However, the young god should sound like it. Künzli's Loge almost - almost - makes up for it; however, I wouldn't wish this recording on an enemy. Wagner deserves better, even if they don't.
What is it about Thielemann's work that seems so sharply to divide critical opinion? Some say he's the new Karajan (or at least, made in 'His' image), while others find his direction torturous to the point of shapelessness. There was a discussion recently on radio about his Brahms Symphony No. 1, and the presenter played the opening. Then he played a newly reissued Szell recording of the same work, and my God - what a difference! The Szell outclassed the Thielemann without argument.
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 06:07:58 AM
Karl, you are aware in which thread this discussion of your music is taking place, aren't you? ;D
Arrrgggghhh !!!
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 07, 2007, 06:37:46 AM
Thielemann's Alpensinfonie. The only record, of which I didn't have a duplicate, that I've ever just given away.
I don't think that recording is that terrible. Actually it has some good moments like the low brass in the beginning. But did you ever read the LINER NOTES in that disc, I almost threw up. Here is an excerpt (all in the words of Thielemann):
A conductor has got to love Richard Strauss if he is the least bit interested in orchestral color.
That[Alpensinfonie] really does sound a lot like music [no sh*t Sherlock].
Take for example the eccentric opening on low trombones...how do you come up with such an idea? This is amazing music. It never ceases to fascinate me.C'mon, you can't be a serious conductor and come up with such trite remarks. It is almost as bad as Marin Alsop saying how it is a pleasure to work with a "great" Mahler orchestra like the London SO.
Quote from: D Minor on June 07, 2007, 03:06:33 AM
You'd treat your enemies to such great music?
Haven't you heard? He's
gentle in manner. $:)
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 07, 2007, 06:56:26 AM
C'mon, you can't be a serious conductor and come up with such trite remarks. It is almost as bad as Marin Alsop saying how it is a pleasure to work with a "great" Mahler orchestra like the London SO.
It all started with "Berlioz Takes a Trip," you know . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on June 07, 2007, 06:58:35 AM
It all started with "Berlioz Takes a Trip," you know . . . .
Let's not compare Ms. Alsop with Lenny please. Lenny was a natural, Alsop just sounds so reheased and patronizing.
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 05:11:33 AM
Indeed, there is no shame at all, Harry. Next month, I shall download a Jando Haydn disc at random and let you know what I hear. :)
I have never heard a Jando CD, but I know that he has a reputation for humming along.
My entry is this:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZFBFV9QSL._AA240_.jpg)
It actually gave me nausea :-\
Quote from: orbital on June 07, 2007, 07:09:17 AM
I have never heard a Jando CD, but I know that he has a reputation for humming along.
No man ever caught up with a bad rumor . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on June 07, 2007, 07:13:55 AM
No man ever caught up with a bad rumor . . . .
Happens all the time of course, but I just did a search (http://www.google.com/search?q=jando+humming ;D) and there are reviews upon reviews claiming the same exact thing, be it Haydn, Schubert or WTK. Perhaps it is subtle enough for some people to not notice it.
Any atonal crap
Quote from: orbital on June 07, 2007, 07:24:53 AM
Happens all the time of course, but I just did a search (http://www.google.com/search?q=jando+humming ;D) and there are reviews upon reviews claiming the same exact thing, be it Haydn, Schubert or WTK. Perhaps it is subtle enough for some people to not notice it.
Well, it seems I stand corrected and owe Harry an apology:
Harry, I'm sincerely sorry I challenged and doubted you. :(All I can say in my defence is that I own probably 10-15 discs on which Jando plays, and even through headphones at more than safe volume, I've not yet heard any humming.
Ho hum ... ;D
FWIW Mark, nor have I. :)
Quote from: George on June 07, 2007, 12:14:55 PM
FWIW Mark, nor have I. :)
Thanks. Thought I was going insane. :)
Well, and I was sure that the humming Harry heard was all the busts of Telemann, Gounod & al. vibrating atop his speakers ;D
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 12:15:39 PM
Thanks. Thought I was going insane. :)
Well, as long as you don't find Jando to be one of the great pianists. ::)
Quote from: George on June 07, 2007, 12:18:50 PM
Well, as long as you don't find Jando to be one of the great pianists. ::)
Got no firm opinions on pianists, George. Not an area to which I pay much heed ... evidently. ;D
Toscachichi
Gould's Mozart Sonatas! >:(
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 12:11:04 PM
Well, it seems I stand corrected and owe Harry an apology:
Harry, I'm sincerely sorry I challenged and doubted you. :(
All I can say in my defence is that I own probably 10-15 discs on which Jando plays, and even through headphones at more than safe volume, I've not yet heard any humming.
Ho hum ... ;D
Well I knew you would come around one fine day. ;D
So we're friends again, Harry? ;)
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 02:03:31 PM
So we're friends again, Harry? ;)
There was nothing serious wrong my friend, just a friendly pulling to and fro! :)
Quote from: Steve on June 07, 2007, 12:36:22 PM
Gould's Mozart Sonatas! >:(
Well, in fairness, he did hate them.
I'm actually curious to listen to them myself, though. Does he just give a sardonic reading or what?
........ speaking of Gould recordings .........
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/511BA4TKP9L._SS500_.jpg)
This ranks alongside syphilis, the plague, and bovine spongiform encephalopathy on the list of things to avoid ..........
Quote from: D Minor on June 07, 2007, 03:40:44 PM
........ speaking of Gould recordings .........
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/511BA4TKP9L._SS500_.jpg)
This ranks alongside syphilis, the plague, and bovine spongiform encephalopathy on the list of things to avoid ..........
Seriously, what's so bad about that recording?
Quote from: The Mad Hatter on June 07, 2007, 03:50:19 PM
Seriously, what's so bad about that recording?
Nothing wrong with it. It is an outstanding recording. Should be a reference recording to set alongside Fleisher/Szell.
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/01/601701.jpg)
Quote from: BorisG on June 07, 2007, 05:44:07 PM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/01/601701.jpg)
Is it the music or the performances that you find so lacking? Or perhaps a combination of the two? This certainly isn't my favorite recording, but it's way too good for my enemies.
I haven't got any enemies but if I had it would be any recording featuring Telemann.
It would either bore them to death or they would love it, thus demonstrating that they had no taste or discrimination whatsoever and end up being shunned by society and have fingers pointed at them in public, thus driving them to suicide and a paupers grave. >:D
Well, I'm not sure Telemann is THAT bad.
If you want bad, try Anton Zimmermann's String Quartets Nos. 1-3 (sorry Harry - couldn't resist!). ;D
Quote from: Mark on June 08, 2007, 04:46:54 AM
Well, I'm not sure Telemann is THAT bad.
If you want bad, try Anton Zimmermann's String Quartets Nos. 1-3 (sorry Harry - couldn't resist!). ;D
You'll burn for it, I am sure! ;D
The Naxos Khachaturian Piano Concerto recording is the one that springs to mind. I think it may have been recorded underwater!
Anything by Gloria Coates.
Anything by Nancy Van de Vate.
Quote from: Hector on June 08, 2007, 04:19:41 AM
I haven't got any enemies but if I had it would be any recording featuring Telemann.
I have always wondered why
Telemann is so popular. His music isn't bad but I wouldn't call it interesting either. Personally I like
Fasch and
Graupner much more.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 08, 2007, 09:08:47 AM
I have always wondered why Telemann is so popular.
The vibrational fields, chiefly.
Quote from: Steve on June 07, 2007, 12:36:22 PM
Gould's Mozart Sonatas! >:(
I wasn't exactly wild about these either. But I found his Beethoven worse.
Quote from: The Mad Hatter on June 07, 2007, 03:22:46 PM
Well, in fairness, he did hate them.
I'm actually curious to listen to them myself, though. Does he just give a sardonic reading or what?
Hearing Gould speak ill of Mozart made me cringe! :'(
As to these sonatas, the tempi are eggregiously slow. He seems desperate to remove the Mozart from these sonatas. A miserable set.
My enemies are human and they need to be loved, just like everybody else does. :-\
Quote from: Steve on June 08, 2007, 12:02:03 PM
Hearing Gould speak ill of Mozart made me cringe! :'(
As to these sonatas, the tempi are eggregiously slow. He seems desperate to remove the Mozart from these sonatas. A miserable set.
Steve said it. AVOID. I only keep mine because I'm becoming and insufferable "collector".
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41493509FGL._SS500_.jpg)
This CD contains some of the worst playing I have ever heard on a commercially produced CD. I am a big time Naxos fan and this is the only 'miss' I have ever experienced from them. I find it surprising that such a shoddy effort was produced on a potentially popular collecetion. But there we are!
Quote from: Guido on June 08, 2007, 03:59:27 PM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41493509FGL._SS500_.jpg)
This CD contains some of the worst playing I have ever heard on a commercially produced CD. I am a big time Naxos fan and this is the only 'miss' I have ever experienced from them. I find it surprising that such a shoddy effort was produced on a potentially popular collecetion. But there we are!
Well, that told me. I rather like that disc. :(
But its so out of tune! Can't beat the 'original' release of Fratres with the 12 cellists of the Berlin Philharmonic. Ever. The playing also has a certain cool dissinterest to it in general, or atleast that is my memory of it. Perhaps I should listen again?
Quote from: Guido on June 08, 2007, 04:43:49 PM
But its so out of tune! Can't beat the 'original' release of Fratres with the 12 cellists of the Berlin Philharmonic. Ever. The playing also has a certain cool dissinterest to it in general, or atleast that is my memory of it. Perhaps I should listen again?
Re-listen to track 3 of that Naxos release. I find it incredible sensual, and often feel it belongs to a scene from an erotically charged thriller or a literary novel adaptation.
Quote from: Guido on June 08, 2007, 03:59:27 PM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41493509FGL._SS500_.jpg)
This CD contains some of the worst playing I have ever heard on a commercially produced CD. I am a big time Naxos fan and this is the only 'miss' I have ever experienced from them. I find it surprising that such a shoddy effort was produced on a potentially popular collecetion. But there we are!
I have the
Berliner Mass and the
Passio on Naxos and I must say it is some of the most somnabulistic music out there. How anyone can stand it is beyond me. Each CD has about 3 minutes worth of material stretched into an hour.
Any of Urania's "let's take the worst commercially available transfer, boost the bass till it sounds like white noise, then add masses of reverb" pirate issues. ;)
Quote from: Bunny on June 07, 2007, 07:52:25 PM
Is it the music or the performances that you find so lacking? Or perhaps a combination of the two? This certainly isn't my favorite recording, but it's way too good for my enemies.
I was anxious to hear. While store browsing and seeing it as used, it brought back more than several positive comments and reviews for it, and no negative. These are not amongst Mozart's oft-recorded works, but that is partly why I was attracted to it. That, and the artists of course.
My strong disagreement is with the poor recorded sound. Some good performance is destroyed by uncaring engineering. Doopsgezinde-Kerk, Haarlem, Netherlands, a church used for many HIP recordings, sounds hollow here. Hollow in Holland! Too, the instruments seem about 30 to 40 feet apart. The fortepiano's terribly recessed.
Quote from: edward on June 08, 2007, 05:34:30 PM
Any of Urania's "let's take the worst commercially available transfer, boost the bass till it sounds like white noise, then add masses of reverb" pirate issues. ;)
;D
Quote from: Haffner on June 08, 2007, 02:43:56 PM
Steve said it. AVOID. I only keep mine because I'm becoming and insufferable "collector".
Welcome to the club. 8)
Quote from: Haffner on June 08, 2007, 02:43:56 PM
Steve said it. AVOID. I only keep mine because I'm becoming and insufferable "collector".
...
...
...
I really want to hear them now...
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 06:45:25 AM
What is it about Thielemann's work that seems so sharply to divide critical opinion? Some say he's the new Karajan (or at least, made in 'His' image), while others find his direction torturous to the point of shapelessness.
Some might say that calling him "the new Karajan" isn't exactly a compliment, either. ;D
I hate my enemies so much, their isn't any crappy recording I wouldn't wish upon them.
This steaming pile of manure:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CSRJRX57L._SS500_.jpg)
... although I did send my copy to a member of this forum (sorry about that :().
Seriously, this is awful. The clues that it's going to be are all there in the first movement. Why, oh, why such slow tempi? Such drawn out phrasing? Such a turgid cadenza ... which goes on for so long that you actually forget what the hell you're listening to by the time the main theme returns. I won't go further - it'll only raise my blood pressure. Instead, I'll sum it up in a word: AVOID!
Quote from: Mark on June 10, 2007, 03:08:12 PM
This steaming pile of manure:
Let no one say that this man does not do words. ;D
Quote from: George on June 10, 2007, 03:17:32 PM
Let no one say that this man does not do words. ;D
Very charitable of you, George. Particularly as you were the 'victim' of this gift. :D
Quote from: Mark on June 10, 2007, 03:30:24 PM
Very charitable of you, George. Particularly as you were the 'victim' of this gift. :D
Yeah, with friends like you... ::)
I remember reading an interview with Vengerov where he stated that he was not used to Rostropovich's slow speeds in the Beethoven but trusted Rostropovich enough musically to comply. Apparently it didn't pay off.
Oh yeah. That's right, Vengerov. Blame Slava now he's not here to defend himself. Why you little ... >:(
;D
Quote from: Mark on June 10, 2007, 03:35:52 PM
Oh yeah. That's right, Vengerov. Blame Slava now he's not here to defend himself. Why you little ... >:(
;D
Could well be true though, Mark, I saw Vengerov play the VC with the NYPO / Maazel a couple years ago and he zipped right through it with no problems at all. It's just that when you put something like that on a recording, you are immortalizing your failures, why would you do that? :-\
8)
As a concession to Vengerov, I did once see him play a blinding Sibelius Violin Concerto on a BBC Proms broadcast.
The interview was waaay before Slava popped his clogs. I'm not a massive Vengerov fan, but I don't like to see him wrongly accused!
Quote from: Mark on June 10, 2007, 03:08:12 PM
This steaming pile of manure:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CSRJRX57L._SS500_.jpg)
... although I did send my copy to a member of this forum (sorry about that :().
Seriously, this is awful. The clues that it's going to be are all there in the first movement. Why, oh, why such slow tempi? Such drawn out phrasing? Such a turgid cadenza ... which goes on for so long that you actually forget what the hell you're listening to by the time the main theme returns. I won't go further - it'll only raise my blood pressure. Instead, I'll sum it up in a word: AVOID!
The shirt he's wearing should go into the pile as well. ;)
That's another over worked stinker. I know of someone who thinks that there is nothing that Vengerov can do wrong, but he also thinks Beethoven is cliché because he wrote the opening bars of the Fifth symphony, tatataTAH.
I'd be interested in hearing Vengerov do the Beethoven again, if only to see how he would do it now that Rostropovich is dead. >:D
Quote from: Mark on June 10, 2007, 03:35:52 PM
Oh yeah. That's right, Vengerov. Blame Slava now he's not here to defend himself. Why you little ... >:(
;D
Beats defending Beethoven's skills as an orchestrator over at Elgar's Thread....
Quote from: Bunny on June 10, 2007, 07:46:43 PM
The shirt he's wearing should go into the pile as well. ;)
What's with all this dissing of Vengerov?
He was in the audience for Sokolov at the Wigmore Hall the other night, and man is he a snappy dresser. Wow. Talk about looking a million dollars.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 08, 2007, 09:08:47 AM
I have always wondered why Telemann is so popular. His music isn't bad but I wouldn't call it interesting either. Personally I like Fasch and Graupner much more.
Is Telemann popular?
I suppose he must be whenever there is a requirement for aural wallpaper then, roll out the Telemann.
I do not know of the others you mention but I would, probably, not wish them on my enemies, either.
Wasn't Telemann hugely popular in his own time?
Quote from: Mark on June 11, 2007, 06:19:14 AM
Wasn't Telemann hugely popular in his own time?
Yep.
Quote from: Haffner on June 08, 2007, 02:43:56 PM
Steve said it. AVOID. I only keep mine because I'm becoming and insufferable "collector".
Quite true, mate. At the very least, the packaging is aesthetically pleasing. Or at least, I think it is.... :)
Quote from: George on June 11, 2007, 06:44:47 AM
Yep.
And he produced some worthwhile compositions.
Quote from: Hector on June 11, 2007, 06:08:27 AM
Is Telemann popular?
I suppose he must be whenever there is a requirement for aural wallpaper then, roll out the Telemann.
I do not know of the others you mention but I would, probably, not wish them on my enemies, either.
Popular in the sense you have heard of him (and probably even his music) while you don't know
Fasch and
Graupner. Your attitude implies you never will know them but that's your loss, not mine. ;)
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2007, 06:55:34 AM
And he produced some worthwhile compositions.
Yep. ;D
Quote from: Guido on June 10, 2007, 03:46:52 PM
The interview was waaay before Slava popped his clogs.
Can't be too careful about one's footwear, eh,
Guido?
Quote from: karlhenning on June 11, 2007, 07:06:39 AM
Can't be too careful about one's footwear, eh, Guido?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/83/e9/95c0b2c008a014997cfba010._AA240_.L.jpg)
I don't like Wagner ,but sung in French it becomes even harder to appreciate....Affreux!!!( like the CD cover- abominable in the extreme!)
Peter
A recent disc with Czerny piano Etudes ( presented on radio) I also found very hard to digest. It could be used for torture, I'm sure.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F375VAF6L._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: pjme on June 11, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
[img]http://ec1.images-I don't like Wagner ,but sung in French it becomes even harder to appreciate....Affreux!!!
I enjoyed this very much,
Peter, thanks! :-)
Quote from: pjme on June 11, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/83/e9/95c0b2c008a014997cfba010._AA240_.L.jpg)
I don't like Wagner ,but sung in French it becomes even harder to appreciate....Affreux!!!( like the CD cover- abominable in the extreme!)
Peter
Very funny, indeed! :D
Thibaudet's recording "The Chopin I Love" on Decca; he might love Chopin, but that doesn't stop him from butchering the music.
Beethoven's 9th with the Zagreb Philharmonic conducted by godknowswho on Naxos...geez sometimes I think my wind ensemble plays on a higher level than them in that forsaken recording
Quote from: Bonehelm on August 22, 2007, 09:54:39 PM
Beethoven's 9th with the Zagreb Philharmonic conducted by godknowswho on Naxos...geez sometimes I think my wind ensemble plays on a higher level than them in that forsaken recording
there are lots of medicore recordings on Naxos, do you remember the name of the conductor? however, there are also a ton of good stuff on there, if you search carefully that is.
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Er, hate to tell you this, MT, but we've already got a six-page thread on this topic (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1400.0.html).
Perhaps a Mod could merge yours into mine? ???
Wow Mark, new fresh look! More mafia like this time with the shades, the last one was so ''artistic''.
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Er, hate to tell you this, MT, but we've already got a six-page thread on this topic (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1400.0.html).
Perhaps a Mod could merge yours into mine? ???
i could care less, if you want it so bad, go for it.
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Er, hate to tell you this, MT, but we've already got a six-page thread on this topic (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1400.0.html).
Perhaps a Mod could merge yours into mine? ???
And what about this thread:
The one recording you think everyone should bin (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,868.0.html).
Which had a better approach IMO - not naming just any bad recordings - there are truckloads of those and it's too easy (and not interesting) - but well known recordings that are
overrated. Nominating a few that were favourites of others made me very popular! ;D
Q
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 11:08:58 PM
Oh yeah? And what about this thread: Recordings so terrible you had to rip off your ears and feed them to your hamster (//http://)?
Pity the link doesn't work..... ::) - the title made me very curious! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for the good laugh, Mark. :)
Q
may be i should change the title to "recordings that you think everyone should burn (the act of destroying something with fire)"
plus, i think the old thread spent way too much talking about people who disliked "good" recordings, while only a few truly, bad bad bad recordings were discussed, for starters, no one has yet mentioned Thieleman!
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 22, 2007, 11:28:45 PM
plus, i think the old thread spent way too much talking about people who disliked "good" recordings
Quite a few recordings I
personally consider "not that good" and some even "bad"
Quoteonly a few truly, bad bad bad recordings were discussed, for starters, no one has yet mentioned Thieleman!
Maybe some (many?) would consider his recordings "good"? ::)
In any case he is a wellknown, mainstream performer.
There are a lot of recordings that are
so bad, that everybody agrees that they are bad.
I don't see the point of discussing those or obscure recordings, I'm much more interested in different views on mainstream performers/recordings.
Q
Quote from: Bonehelm on August 22, 2007, 10:27:00 PM
Wow Mark, new fresh look! More mafia like this time with the shades, the last one was so ''artistic''.
He is probably applying for a position as a Mozartian
Quote from: Que on August 22, 2007, 11:52:09 PM
Maybe some (many?) would consider his recordings "good"? ::)
In any case he is a wellknown, mainstream performer.
There is plenty of stuff that Thielemann recorded that I totally do not agree with. At all. But he did some very, very good things, too. In any case, even the recordings I personally do not agree with musically are done on a very decent professional level. I can see what he is trying to do (in most, though not all cases, but that may just be me). I think musical ignoramuses who have no knowledge of and connection to the musical culture he comes from and who don't understand why he is doing things in certain ways, and who probably can't even pronouce the names of the composers or interpreters should just shut up and not make such dramatic statements (by which I *don't* mean you, obviously). They should show some respects for cultures they do not understand and their exponents and come back when they have figured out some of the basic things about all that.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 22, 2007, 05:12:35 PM
this wonderful recording of Bruckner's 7th symphony with WP recorded in 1939
The major beef that i have with this recording is with its atrocious sound quality, the screaming third movement alone should have been labeled "WARNING, might cause serious hearing damage"....Like i said, at times the loud and clear, but at times you can barely hear it....
Duh! The recording was made in *1939*. And who knows under what conditions. The reasons to listen to this, extremely glaringly obviously, can not be expectations of great sound quality. ::) ::) ::) ::)
What you can't understand about this is that for some people, no matter how badly they sound, such recordings are important documents of such things as historical playing and interpretation styles which are highly interesting for those for whom this kind of music isn't just some exciting noise blaring out of the speakers, but a cultural phenomenon and statement which exists in several dimensions, one of which is the history of reception and performance of the music throughout the times. You may not understand that, but you could respect that for some people, these things are part of their cultural heritage and therefore very worth conserving and investigating.
OK, before this gets bad and the entire thread goes to the bin: do you want me to merge it or not? And with which other topic(s)?
The one recording you think everyone should bin (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,868.0.html) starts and ends in May.
Recordings you wouldn't wish upon your enemies (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1400.0.html) starts and ends in June.
I could merge all three and there would be no overlap, so they would remain readable (the heading of each message would still retain the original title, so you would know which thread was originally which)...
OK, Mark, for the time being I'll merge yours with Michel's and wait for what MahlerTitan has to say before I merge his... 8)
Quote from: Mark on August 23, 2007, 02:52:49 AM
I'm up for merging all three under the earliest of the three thread titles. :)
I liked the idea of Mark's Hamster thread best - although the little creatures are usually vegetarian.... ;D
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 11:08:58 PM
Oh yeah? And what about this thread: Recordings so terrible you had to rip off your ears and feed them to your hamster (//http://)?
Q
Stage one: completed (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,868.0.html).
Quote from: Mark on August 22, 2007, 10:28:15 PM
Watch it, or you may end up with a horse's head in your bed! ;D
How about his head in a horse's bed? No, forget it.
Sinopoli's Mahler.
Quote from: Hector on August 23, 2007, 06:32:14 AM
How about his head in a horse's bed? No, forget it.
Sinopoli's Mahler.
I have only heard his 1st, so I can't say his Mahler sucks, but I hereby announce that his Mahler 1st sucks. Not as much vivacity as Kubelik, not as much emotion as Bernstein, not as much power as Abaddo, not as clear as Bertini. Straight to the 'ster.
Sinopoli's Mahler is fabulous. He explores the soundscapes of that music, the complex textures, the emotional values of the colors, the counterpoints of ideas and images like few other conductors. Adequately partnered by highly involved and virtuoso playing from the Philharmonia. A real trip, stimulating, revealing, challenging. Intelligent and inspired music making on a rare level.
One of the miracles of modern recording history.
Apparently only for advanced listeners, though. For those who at least have a notion that Mahler's music is much more than just a blareboombang orchestral thrill ride, but a complex musical expression of immense depth.
Quote from: M forever on August 24, 2007, 02:52:09 AM
Sinopoli's Mahler is fabulous. He explores the soundscapes of that music, the complex textures, the emotional values of the colors, the counterpoints of ideas and images like few other conductors. Adequately partnered by highly involved and virtuoso playing from the Philharmonia. A real trip, stimulating, revealing, challenging. Intelligent and inspired music making on a rare level.
One of the miracles of modern recording history.
Apparently only for advanced listeners, though. For those who at least have a notion that Mahler's music is much more than just a blareboombang orchestral thrill ride, but a complex musical expression of immense depth.
Yeah, right ::)
Solti's Mahler, then. That sounds pretty blareboombang to me.
In fact Solti and Sinopoli can prop each other up in the bin.
Here's another I don't expect many to agree with: Jochum's Bruckner, all of it. Fatally earthbound.
Quote from: Hector on August 24, 2007, 04:38:01 AM
Yeah, right ::)
Solti's Mahler, then. That sounds pretty blareboombang to me.
In fact Solti and Sinopoli can prop each other up in the bin.
Here's another I don't expect many to agree with: Jochum's Bruckner, all of it. Fatally earthbound.
Definitely one of the best Bruckner cycles ever recorded. Very complex interpretations. Highly authentic and idiomatic orchestral playing. You do not understand that, obviously, but that doesn't matter. You simply don't understand the musical culture behind this music. Your loss. But instead of listening and learning, you prefer to simmer in the juice of your own ignorance. People even take the time to point out to you what you are missing. Wasted time. But again, your loss.
Quote from: M forever on August 24, 2007, 02:52:09 AM
Sinopoli's Mahler is fabulous.
I haven't heard the whole set but I agree. Then again, I am a natural Sinopoli fanatic and love mostly everything he touched. He is IMO one of the truly great conductors from the past several decades.
For anyone interested, here is a quote by Sinopoli regarding the Mahler 1:
"The Mahler First is about the loss of nature. In Mahler, there is a feeling of nature as the moment in childhood where everything is in order, and the feeling of loss because as life progresses it moves farther and farther from the natural state. Once you begin to stray, the conflict begins. And what Mahler is saying here is, Come back."
Norman Lebrecht, The Maestro Myth (London: Simon and Schuster, 1991), 229.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 24, 2007, 09:54:59 AM
that is an interesting take on the 1st symphony.
Regarding to Sinopoli's Mahler, which performance are you guys talking about? be more specific, "Sinopoli's Mahler" that's pretty vague there.
I would assume they're talking about the DG cycle. :)
I bin almost all my recordings. I only have a few box sets in the drawer of some hard to borrow stuff that I wanted to get to know, plus some minimalism for the car.
I don't like possessing stuff, and before all that long all hardware will be obsolete with all music ever recorded available on the internet...
Quote from: Sean on August 24, 2007, 11:01:40 AM
I bin almost all my recordings. I only have a few box sets in the drawer of some hard to borrow stuff that I wanted to get to know, plus some minimalism for the car.
I don't like possessing stuff, and before all that long all hardware will be obsolete with all music ever recorded available on the internet...
Since I am the ultimate materialist, just send me all your possessions. 8)
Just looking through this thread... what's with all the Kleiber-haters? ???
Quote from: Corey on August 29, 2007, 08:14:12 AM
Just looking through this thread... what's with all the Kleiber-haters? ???
Well, personally, I don't dislike
Kleiber: I dislike the way he handles Beethoven's 5th symphony. It's too "Strauss-like", as Que suggested; too "glossed over" for me to rank it among my favourite recordings of the work, for all its fantastic articulation.
I mean, just put on the Toscanini 1930's 5th, and it's a different world. Much the same applies for the Klemperer, as well as (for me) the recent Vänskä , and of course the 1960's Karajan, which is my personal favourite 5th, "objective" quality set aside. ;)
Quote from: Renfield on August 29, 2007, 08:47:31 AM
Well, personally, I don't dislike Kleiber: I dislike the way he handles Beethoven's 5th symphony. It's too "Strauss-like", as Que suggested; too "glossed over" for me to rank it among my favourite recordings of the work, for all its fantastic articulation.
I mean, just put on the Toscanini 1930's 5th, and it's a different world. Much the same applies for the Klemperer, as well as (for me) the recent Vänskä , and of course the 1960's Karajan, which is my personal favourite 5th, "objective" quality set aside. ;)
I don't really buy into the "cult of the performer" so maybe that's why I'm confused as to why people are so vehemently opposed to his recordings.
Quote from: Corey on August 29, 2007, 08:50:07 AM
I don't really buy into the "cult of the performer" so maybe that's why I'm confused as to why people are so vehemently opposed to his recordings.
I counted only two posts on (Carlos) Kleiber in this thread and both contained comment on his recording of the LvB 5&7. You translate that to "vehement" opposition to Kleiber in general -
as a conductor. I don't see any evidence of that, and I personally wouldn't subscribe to anything like that
at all. BTW, any dissention on the status of a recording as "ultimate", "legendary" and "must-have" can't be equated to "hate".
Q
Quote from: Que on August 29, 2007, 09:07:59 AM
I counted only two posts on (Carlos) Kleiber in this thread and both contained comment on his recording of the LvB 5&7. You translate that to "vehement" opposition to Kleiber in general - as a conductor. I don't see any evidence of that, and I personally wouldn't subscribe to anything like that at all. BTW, any dissention on the status of a recording as "ultimate", "legendary" and "must-have" can't be equated to "hate".
Q
Indeed. And even more so, Carlos Kleiber is a conductor I appreciate very much indeed, myself. I just don't like his reading of Beethoven's 5th enough to attribute to it any of the three above epithets ("ultimate", "legendary", "must-have"), or an equivalent.
In fact, there are very few recordings I would go as far as to describe as being "definitive", much less "ultimate", or "must-have". It's too dependent on personal preference to be otherwise, and I'm likely being subjective even about those "very few". :)
Carlos Kleiber as a conductor was a rare phenomenon which is very hard to describe in words, but many people, especially musicians, understood what he was about, and there is a good reason for why many top orchestras admired him and loved working with him - when he actually showed up. He even had the nerve of walking out on the Wiener Philharmoniker in the middle of a rehearsal. And they still asked him back.
It is really hard to describe in words, but his understanding of music and music making was extremely "to the point", concentrated and somehow absolutely "natural", and the way he was able to communicate his vision of the music to orchestras led to some very special events, as the few studio productions he actually did and the live recordings in circulation demonstrate. I only saw him live once, with the BP in 1994 (one of only two times he actually showed up in Berlin) with Coriolan, Mozart 33 and Brahms 4. One of the two or three typical programs he did in his later years. He had rehearsed the program meticulously with the orchestra (I went to one of the rehearsals), and the program was obviously as standard repertoire as it can get. But the concert was incredibly "spontaneous", Kleiber led the orchestra through the program with very elegant, fluent, but highly nervously charged gestures, and in many of the "right" moments, he stepped back and just let the orchestra play, added just a few "remarks" here and there. Which all totally registered in the playing. That ability to squeeze the very best out of an orchestra of that stature was one of the elements which made him such a good conductor. He clearly had some very serious issues, probably because he always felt the shadow of his famous father looming above him. But he was also extremely private, so he never talked about himself and his music making.
Here is an interesting recent article (in German only) from the news magazine Der Spiegel: http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/musik/0,1518,495249,00.html
There is also a new biography coming out in Germany in October.
Thanks M, once again.
Your words describe what makes C. Kleiber such a special conductor to me, I think.
C. Kleiber, the greatest part-time conductor?
A slim repertoire. One Mahler work (Das Lied von der Erde), no Bruckner, no modern.
Having heard Stephen Cleobury and the Choir of King's College, Cambridge, make a thorough pig's ear of Rachmaninov's sublime All-night Vigil, I thought it couldn't be possible to hear a recording of this work that would impress me less.
Then this plopped onto my doormat:
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R7V2VR7ZL._AA240_.jpg)
Having heard 22 versions of this work, let me assure you that this one is the most one-dimensional. The recording is flat (something I often find with Telarc discs, actually); articulation and details are lost in a bland, uniform choral sound which, while well-drilled, is utterly uninspiring; and the tempi choices are soporific.
If you love this work, avoid this CD.
Quote from: Mark on October 20, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
If you love this work, avoid this CD.
Guy from classicstoday loves it, the CD I mean.
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=8668 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=8668)
Quote from: Drasko on October 20, 2007, 03:00:08 PM
Guy from classicstoday loves it, the CD I mean.
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=8668 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=8668)
David Vernier clearly knows nothing. For him to compare Shaw's dire rendition alongside the
astronomically superior (in EVERY way) Hillier recording and still conclude that he remains a 'Shaw fan' is ridiculous beyond this listener's belief.
I must conclude that he has wooden ears on a tin head.
The following particularly riled me:
Many, many excellent choirs have performed and recorded this liturgical masterpiece, and overall the most impressive combination of emotional integrity, artful choral blend and balance, and sheer sumptuousness of tone belongs to the Robert Shaw Festival Singers (Telarc), whose sincerity of expression offsets the choir's decidedly non-Slavic vocal timbre.My apologies at this point (parents, cover your kids' eyes), but that's total f**king b*llocks! He then goes on to say this:
The sound is a bit on the bright side, with some significant resonance that creates some harshness and messes with the otherwise fine blend and balance in the loudest passages.Again, crap. The recording is damned near perfect, especially on SACD. I could point to several recordings of this work about which that comment might justifiably be made - Hillier's is most definitely NOT among them.
Now I remember why I stopped taking ClassicsToday reviews seriously. ::)
Quote from: Mark on October 20, 2007, 03:14:47 PM
Now I remember why I stopped taking ClassicsToday reviews seriously. ::)
Their opera reviewer, Levine something, is generally quite sane.
Quote from: Mark on October 20, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
Having heard 22 versions of this work
Do you have Polyansky and Chernushenko?
Quote from: Drasko on October 20, 2007, 03:37:00 PM
Do you have Polyansky and Chernushenko?
The Melodiya and Saison Russe recordings (respectively)? Yes, sir, I do. Polyansky is wildly over-rated: he slows everything down so much that by the mid-way point, you're lucky if you're not asleep. Beautiful singing, mind you - marred only by bad engineering which causes some really grating peak distortion in louder, higher ensemble work. The Chernushenko (or, more correctly, Tchernouchenko) recording is good enough, but only that. Some interesting and colourful touches along the way (almost every recording of this work adds
something to one's understanding and appreciation of it), but it wouldn't make my top five.
For the record, here's a picture from my media library showing 19 of the 22 recordings in my collection (the other three have yet to be converted to MP3).
Any LvB symphony on Naxos.
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 20, 2007, 04:56:41 PM
Any LvB symphony on Naxos.
Yeah check out that crap that Naxos puts out--
(http://img.verycd.com/post_thumbs/0708/post-324771-1186725109_thumb.jpg)
;D
Quote from: DavidW on October 20, 2007, 06:29:40 PM
Yeah check out that crap that Naxos puts out--
(http://img.verycd.com/post_thumbs/0708/post-324771-1186725109_thumb.jpg)
;D
Yeah, the Lucerne one
is so much better! ;) ;D
Only get Furty on either EMI or Music & Arts. They are the only good transfers. Plus the 1942 recording is the only great performance of Furty LvB 9th to me.
Quote from: DavidW on October 20, 2007, 06:29:40 PM
Yeah check out that crap that Naxos puts out--
(http://img.verycd.com/post_thumbs/0708/post-324771-1186725109_thumb.jpg)
;D
Yeah! And what about that legendary Toscanini 1939 Beethoven cycle? waste of space I tell ye... ::) ;D
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 01:09:27 PM
Only get Furty on either EMI or Music & Arts. They are the only good transfers. Plus the 1942 recording is the only great performance of Furty LvB 9th to me.
1) Tahra has also done a remastering.
2) Regarding the emphasised text: !!!???!!! :o :P
No, seriously, I think you're being a bit unfair to both the excellent Bayereuth 1951 performance, and of course the scintillating, awesome and superb Lucerne 1954 Beethoven 9th. Though it is your opinion, and I do respect it. :)
Quote from: Renfield on October 21, 2007, 01:59:07 PM
1) Tahra has also done a remastering.
2) Regarding the emphasised text: !!!???!!! :o :P
No, seriously, I think you're being a bit unfair to both the excellent Bayereuth 1951 performance, and of course the scintillating, awesome and superb Lucerne 1954 Beethoven 9th. Though it is your opinion, and I do respect it. :)
I respect your's too. Something about that recording (probably the war time setting) just adds that much devilish power and intense cruelty to it.
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 02:47:26 PM
I respect your's too. Something about that recording (probably the war time setting) just adds that much devilish power and intense cruelty to it.
Absolutely: and precisely why I don't prefer it, respect it as I do. To me, Beethoven's 9th Symphony is about "cosmic awe", and jubilation in the company of others; and the way Furtwangler transforms it for that 1942 performance, though an admirable and impressive achievement, is still not
Beethoven's 9th, in a way.
Like his superb Brahms recordings with the BPO and VPO, which are also outstanding, but also not
Brahms' symphonies, to me. :)
Quote from: Renfield on October 21, 2007, 03:09:17 PM
Absolutely: and precisely why I don't prefer it, respect it as I do. To me, Beethoven's 9th Symphony is about "cosmic awe", and jubilation in the company of others; and the way Furtwangler transforms it for that 1942 performance, though an admirable and impressive achievement, is still not Beethoven's 9th, in a way.
Like his superb Brahms recordings with the BPO and VPO, which are also outstanding, but also not Brahms' symphonies, to me. :)
Well Furty is Furty. He has always been like that, criticized for being "over-the-top", overly dramatic, too much exaggeration, too this too that...but in a way he is also the most exciting conductor ever, making his performances extraordinary. You never get the same kind of intensity that be brings with any other conductor...so when you listen to his recordings, pretend you never knew the piece; don't think he is being disloyal to the composer's music. Just try to appreciate Furtwangler's unique sense of drama and personality... :) :) :)
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 01:09:27 PM
Only get Furty on either EMI or Music & Arts. They are the only good transfers.
You're forgetting the best transfers of all: Tahra. They're the gold standard for live Furtwängler on records. They reissue if at all possible using only original source material. No other company strives for such standards. Not Music & Arts, not Melodiya, not even DG (according to BBC Music Magazine) in their latest Furtwängler releases.
Tahra's reputation is based on delivering high quality live Furtwängler performances in beautifully refurbished sound.
And I don't understand the EMI reference. EMI only reissues what was originally recorded by EMI in the first place. Nothing more. They're not a player in the live Furtwängler reissue-go-round like Tahra, M&A, etc... Moreover, the vast majority of EMI's recordings are studio (the ninth excepted) and are not highly sought after by Furtwängler aficionados. Nothing against them but it's the live recordings collectors go after.
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 20, 2007, 04:56:41 PM
Any LvB symphony on Naxos.
false.
Edlinger's Zagreb recordings are perfectly fine, Halasz' Pastorale is wonderful, and Konstantin Scherbakov's solo piano cycle is excellent.
:)
Quote from: brianrein on October 21, 2007, 08:58:01 PM
false.
Edlinger's Zagreb recordings are perfectly fine, Halasz' Pastorale is wonderful, and Konstantin Scherbakov's solo piano cycle is excellent.
:)
To
you.
Quote from: donwyn on October 21, 2007, 08:31:38 PM
You're forgetting the best transfers of all: Tahra. They're the gold standard for live Furtwängler on records. They reissue if at all possible using only original source material. No other company strives for such standards. Not Music & Arts, not Melodiya, not even DG (according to BBC Music Magazine) in their latest Furtwängler releases.
Given the family background of the person behind Tahra (Hermann Scherchen's daughter Myriam), is it any wonder they do such a good job?
Tahra must be one of the few labels which are run almost entirely for artistic reasons, not commercial ones.
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 04:04:19 PM
Well Furty is Furty. He has always been like that, criticized for being "over-the-top", overly dramatic, too much exaggeration, too this too that...but in a way he is also the most exciting conductor ever, making his performances extraordinary. You never get the same kind of intensity that be brings with any other conductor...so when you listen to his recordings, pretend you never knew the piece; don't think he is being disloyal to the composer's music. Just try to appreciate Furtwangler's unique sense of drama and personality... :) :) :)
Of course he was, and of course I do. But seeing as he
has, in my opinion, given the world a nonpareil 9th (Lucerne), I won't put his more "Furtwanglerised" accounts before it, despite how much I enjoy and/or appreciate them musically.
Concerning Tahra, which I
did mention above (;)), I'll agree with the comments so far: their transfers are outstanding, and the performances they reissue are generally superb. In fact, just recently I bought a Bruckner 8th by Jochum with the Hesse Radio Symphony Orchestra (I think), which is positively
outstanding, and far superior to his DG account, to my ears.
Also a fabulous Schubert 9th by Fricsay with (again, I think) the same orchestra, and the list goes on! 8)
Edit: Incidentally, Weingartner, Toscanini, and Walter's Beethoven recordings are issued on Naxos, too: are
they recordings you think everyone should bin!? :o :P
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 20, 2007, 04:56:41 PM
Any LvB symphony on Naxos.
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 09:12:47 PM
To you.
"The best pastoral I've heard is by Slovak Philarmonic [sic] on Naxos" - Bonehelm. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3497.msg84305.html#msg84305)
Oh wait ... that's you! >:D
Quote from: brianrein on October 22, 2007, 09:40:16 AM
"The best pastoral I've heard is by Slovak Philarmonic [sic] on Naxos" - Bonehelm. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3497.msg84305.html#msg84305)
Oh wait ... that's you! >:D
Did he really say that? But that's an AWFUL performance (or at least, nowhere near a good one). Belongs in this thread, actually ...
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 21, 2007, 01:09:27 PM
Plus the 1942 recording is the only great performance of Furty LvB 9th to me.
To which 1942 recording are you referring? There are two different 1942 recordings.
Quote from: brianrein on October 22, 2007, 09:40:16 AM
"The best pastoral I've heard is by Slovak Philarmonic [sic] on Naxos" - Bonehelm. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3497.msg84305.html#msg84305)
Oh wait ... that's you! >:D
Bonehelm, not to get on your case here, but if you want a better version of the 'Pastoral' on the Naxos label, this is the one to choose. (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553474) ;)
However, if you want a truly beautiful version, give the one in this set a spin:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/33/854333.jpg)
Thanks for the recommendation, Mark.
And Keemun, I prefer the March recording, in which Furty played the music in celebration to Adolf's birthday.
By the way, the comment about the Pastoral on Naxos, that was clearly sarcasm. Can't believe some people don't get it ::)
Quote from: edward on October 21, 2007, 09:39:50 PM
Given the family background of the person behind Tahra (Hermann Scherchen's daughter Myriam), is it any wonder they do such a good job?
Tahra must be one of the few labels which are run almost entirely for artistic reasons, not commercial ones.
Hadn't known about the connection to Scherchen, Edward.
A labour of love for her, indeed!
Quote from: Keemun on October 22, 2007, 01:44:52 PM
To which 1942 recording are you referring? There are two different 1942 recordings.
I have one '42 version - the one from the eve of Hitler's birthday. It is on a bootleg label - Archipel, so I don't know if it sounds better on another, legitimate one. The sound on mine is pretty awful. The performance? It's like being in the path of an oncoming, crashing, train!
Yet this version, as I'm sure most other Furtwangler aficionados will be aware, is so so different from the '51 Bayreuth with Schwazkopf. This belies the apparent reputation of him being all sturm und drang with the slowest take on the ninth that I have yet heard (I only have nine versions so there are probably many slower). Whereas some slow versions of pieces can destroy the tension, Furtwangler's interpretation allows the first three movements to breathe and I find myself listening even more intently. It is the most involving version of any large-scale piece of music I have ever heard.
Is there a Furtwangler or a Beethoven's ninth thread?
Quote from: Great Gable on October 22, 2007, 08:35:52 PM
Is there a Furtwangler or a Beethoven's ninth thread?
The Art of Wilhelm Furtwängler (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,415.0.html)
Your favorite recordings of the LvB's 9th (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2638.0.html)
Q
^Thanks ;D
Quote from: Que on October 22, 2007, 10:48:02 PM
The Art of Wilhelm Furtwängler (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,415.0.html)
Your favorite recordings of the LvB's 9th (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2638.0.html)
Q
Que should be hired to be Concierge of GMG. :)
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 22, 2007, 04:31:30 PM
And Keemun, I prefer the March recording, in which Furty played the music in celebration to Adolf's birthday.
I believe the April 19, 1942 recording (not the March recording) is the one played in celebration of Hitler's birthday (April 20). Here is his DISCOGRAPHY (http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Furtwangler/furtwangler-discography.htm#No.9).
Quote from: Keemun on October 23, 2007, 05:43:58 AM
I believe the April 19, 1942 recording (not the March recording) is the one played in celebration of Hitler's birthday (April 20). Here is his DISCOGRAPHY (http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Furtwangler/furtwangler-discography.htm#No.9).
I agree - well that's what my one says. Although I have a version on Archipel which is the crappy bootleg - does this appear on another label with better sound?
Quote from: Great Gable on October 23, 2007, 06:54:11 AM
I agree - well that's what my one says. Although I have a versions on Archipel which is the crappy bootleg - does this appear on another label with better sound.
AFAIK that's the only available recording, and the reason I got rid. There's a limit to my tolerance of historical recordings...
Now if Tahra came up with something, I'm sure that would be loads better...
Quote from: Great Gable on October 23, 2007, 06:54:11 AM
I agree - well that's what my one says. Although I have a versions on Archipel which is the crappy bootleg - does this appear on another label with better sound.
Yes, Archipel puts out seemingly nothing but crappy bootlegs. :-\
Seems ridiculous that you can buy these anywhere in the US, while I have to order overseas for reputable Historical releases. >:(
Quote from: George on October 24, 2007, 06:57:50 AM
Seems ridiculous that you can buy these anywhere in the US, while I have to order overseas for reputable Historical releases. >:(
The Old World triumphs! :P
bump for laughs
Pretty much all of the recordings by Brendel, Schiff, Perahia and Uchida. Just overly fussy, clinical, boring and lifeless playing. Although I admit Perahia's Mozart concertos and Goldberg Variations are okay (the latter is nowhere near Gould though).
Also a lot of Karajan's stuff (Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms etc) is seriously overrated.
Quote from: Mark on June 07, 2007, 02:48:51 AM
We have lots of discussion here about recordings we all recommend. But what about those we recommend others DON'T buy? Well, now we have a thread for this, too.
I'm going to kick off with this lacklustre effort:
(http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1741616.jpg)
Now it's your turn. :)
I LOVE this recording. In my mind it is the only one that balances the raw nervous/angry energy, with the sublime, lyrical intimate moments. I am going to burn in hell, aren't I? :(
Quote from: raduneo on April 22, 2012, 07:08:11 AM
I LOVE this recording. In my mind it is the only one that balances the raw nervous/angry energy, with the sublime, lyrical intimate moments. I am going to burn in hell, aren't I? :(
I like it too, so I guess we'll burn together.
As for thread topic I'd suggest Arthur Schonensomething's Chopin on Alpha, hideous.
Klemperer's St Matthew Passion.
This turned me off the SMP for years. I generally love Klemperer. It takes a great musician to do anything remotely this awful.
I almost got lapidated by friends of mine for saying this the other day, but I stand by my comment ;) :
20 years ago, I thought Gieseking's Debussy was the nec plus ultra...nowadays, I really can't understand what all the brouhaha is about...I find it simply bland... :-[
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/60527857/Debussy+Complete+Works+for+Piano+CD1+folder.jpg)
Quote from: ritter on February 10, 2014, 09:11:23 AM
I almost got lapidated by friends of mine for saying this the other day, but I stand by my comment ;) :
20 years ago, I thought Gieseking's Debussy was the nec plus ultra...nowadays, I really can't understand what all the brouhaha is about...I find it simply bland... :-[
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/60527857/Debussy+Complete+Works+for+Piano+CD1+folder.jpg)
Let me know if it needs a new home. ;)
Quote from: Bogey on February 10, 2014, 07:26:59 PM
Let me know if it needs a new home. ;)
Will keep this in mind, don't worry ;) ... but for the time being, I don't intend to go as far as punishing Gieskeing with exile from my collection ;D
I can't think of very many recordings I've actually gotten rid of. On one occasion I checked out a library CD of Paganini caprices played by the usually reliable Thomas Zehetmair and found the playing sloppy, rushed and oddly interpreted. So I returned it and checked out a different version of the Paganini caprices, played by Salvatore Accardo. These I found lacking in energy and displaying some odd intonation, so I returned that one too. I think I was on my fourth recording of those pieces before it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I just didn't like Paganini.
Actually, I remember not enjoying a Bernstein/NY Phil recording of Brahms 2 and 3 very much. Everything about it just felt wrong. But I don't think it was really bad, just not up to the standards I was used to.
Quote from: amw on February 10, 2014, 11:57:12 PM
I can't think of very many recordings I've actually gotten rid of. On one occasion I checked out a library CD of Paganini caprices played by the usually reliable Thomas Zehetmair and found the playing sloppy, rushed and oddly interpreted. So I returned it and checked out a different version of the Paganini caprices, played by Salvatore Accardo. These I found lacking in energy and displaying some odd intonation, so I returned that one too. I think I was on my fourth recording of those pieces before it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I just didn't like Paganini.
You might want to check Michael Rabin:
[asin]B0000589SZ[/asin]
Perhaps not a very original recommendation, but a great recording.
Q
I didn't know what "bin" meant as a verb, so I went back to the beginning of the thread. I agree with whoever nominated that Kleiber Beethoven 5 & 7 CD, whose giant-killer status eludes me completely. I've owned and "binned" it twice.
Also, I binned all of Wagner when I inherited 1,000+ classical CDs some years ago.
Quote from: Jay F on February 11, 2014, 10:17:22 AM
Also, I binned all of Wagner when I inherited 1,000+ classical CDs some years ago.
Wow! ??? I guess you either love him or you hate him with a passion! :) I don't quite get how I ended up somewhere in between? 8)
Q
Quote from: Que on February 11, 2014, 12:17:23 PM
Wow! ??? I guess you either love him or you hate him with a passion! :) I don't quite get how I ended up somewhere in between? 8)
Q
I sat through the Ring in Seattle in 1979 and 1980. It really was as bad as it sounded. My most Germanic-stuff-loving friend was thrilled to get all these Wagner CDs, though.
I've given away CDs when I had acquired duplicates as part of a box set, or a better remastering. My individual Perahia and Rubinstein CDs will, once I weed them all out, find a home at the local public library, for instance.
But the only CD I've ever given away because of the sheer awfulness of the performance (as in, so bad I never want to hear a note played by this guy again) was a Bach-centered recital by Cameron Carpenter.
Quote from: Ken B on February 10, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
Klemperer's St Matthew Passion.
This turned me off the SMP for years. I generally love Klemperer. It takes a great musician to do anything remotely this awful.
One of my favorite Klemperer pieces, and I really
like Kemperer a lot.
This is a fun thread. I've bought 2K cds over the last year, and the only thing I regret buying was the huge Furtwangler Membran box. Sound is a bit too historical for my ears.
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 13, 2014, 12:02:06 AM
I've bought 2K cds over the last year, and the only thing I regret buying was the huge Furtwangler Membran box. Sound is a bit too historical for my ears.
Historical. Nice diplomatic way of putting it. I'll have to remember that one.
Baklavaboy: I've bought 2K cds over the last year ...
You are my new hero! Not only that I can show this to my girlfriend and say, "See? See?"
Quote from: Ken B on February 10, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
Klemperer's St Matthew Passion.
This turned me off the SMP for years. I generally love Klemperer. It takes a great musician to do anything remotely this awful.
Interesting. Klemperer's is the only non-hip version I've ever enjoyed, but I have to admit it's a very slow trek.
Quote from: Ken B on February 13, 2014, 04:43:05 PM
Baklavaboy: I've bought 2K cds over the last year ...
You are my new hero! Not only that I can show this to my girlfriend and say, "See? See?"
In my defense, they are ALL parts of sets and boxes. I have only bought about 10 that are in jewel cases, and those were jazz. About a 1/3 were a dollar a disc (Jazz encyclopedia boxes, Meister Conzerte, Toscanini, Rubinstein, furtwangler) , and virtually all the others at $3 or less a disc. Still insane, though. I also bought 3 stereos... 8)
Quote from: ritter on February 10, 2014, 11:37:41 PM
Will keep this in mind, don't worry ;) ... but for the time being, I don't intend to go as far punishing Gieskeing with exile from my collection ;D
;D
Quote from: Sammy on February 13, 2014, 04:54:25 PM
Interesting. Klemperer's is the only non-hip version I've ever enjoyed, but I have to admit it's a very slow trek.
Ah, that's just because the others play it way too fast >:D. I also love Mengelberg which is ever more non-hip.
As for records to bin, I've always been mystified by the popularity of Hamelin's Haydn recordings. Hamelin is nice for Alkan and Godowsky and the likes. But Haydn?
The one recording you think everyone should bin???
There is no such beast, period. De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum est. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Florestan on February 14, 2014, 10:38:50 AM
The one recording you think everyone should bin???
There is no such beast, period. De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum est. ;D ;D ;D
I totally agree.
Therefore, here goes my recommendation: the one recording I think everyone should own. :P
[asin]B000B7G0RY[/asin]
(I ignore if other versions with different covers have the same remastering)
:D
I dislike most modern atonal/serial/radical music. However, there are some pieces I especially hate. But I fear to post the CD titles in the fear that a minority who like that stuff will actually try these deservedly obscure recordings. I prefer to keep them obscure and impecunious.
I can remember some premieres in particular, that were so awful and unpleasant that I violated all protocol and loudly booed the conductor and the composer at the end of the piece when they both came up on stage.
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 13, 2014, 06:45:58 PMI also bought 3 stereos... 8)
That must help - you can listen to all the disc three times faster now! :laugh:
Quote from: cournot on February 14, 2014, 01:57:51 PM
I dislike most modern atonal/serial/radical music. However, there are some pieces I especially hate. But I fear to post the CD titles in the fear that a minority who like that stuff will actually try these deservedly obscure recordings. I prefer to keep them obscure and impecunious.
I can remember some premieres in particular, that were so awful and unpleasant that I violated all protocol and loudly booed the conductor and the composer at the end of the piece when they both came up on stage.
Some musicians would think it a good thing to be booed.
But I was once part of a choral group in college which gave the premiere of a new work; our feelings for the composer and the work by the end of the rehearsals can be deduced from the fact that we nearly booed the composer (who made no attempt to win us over) ourselves. But we merely said to each other, "thank God that's over! Now for some decent music!" (I've recounted this episode in some thread or other.)
In truth, I'm not keen on the sort of music you refer to. But I usually pass it over as "not to my taste", and instead give a weak sort of applause for the sake of the performers, who (my experience notwithstanding) really believe in this music, if they are going to the effort of performing it.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Mc0LCcf8L._SY300__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
Snore fest. ;D