I have decided that this great composer deserves his own thread, although I am not expecting many replies. He is 90 this year (no commemoration at the London Proms of course) and I would suggest that, following the recent death of Malcolm Arnold, he is Britain's greatest living composer.
Dutton (all credit to them) are releasing all his symphonies on CD. Nos 2-5 are now available. I was overcome by the epic wartime Third Symphony (hardly ever performed, since Barbirolli misguidedly excised large sections of it at the time of the first performance). Symphony 4 and 5 have just been released and No 5, dedicated to Arnell's father, is a wonderful work, very movingly quoting (although not directly) the music hall tune "Dear Old Pals, Jolly Old Pals" in the second and third movements (there are three), as Arnell's father used to sing this tune. When it returns, in epic form, just before the end, it is a truly wonderful moment, terribly moving. It is one of those tunes that, once heard, resonate in the mind long afterwards. This is the most inspiriting work (composed 1955-7) that I have heard in a long time. After being greatly moved by the Third Symphony I send off a letter of appreciation to the composer (who now lives in a musician's benevolent home in Bromley, London) and received back a lovely card and nice comments from him.
Shame on the BBC for ignoring this composer. If you want to hear an uplifting and thoroughly enjoyable tonal symphony I strongly recommend Arnell's symphonies 3 and 5.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/arnell/
I recently bought this cd:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Arnell_CDLX7161.jpg)
but I haven't come to grips with it yet. A tough nut to crack for me really. I really try to understand this music but I am still a long way off. Sorry.
Are there any - commerical or not - recordings of his Violin concerto op.9 and his Concerto capriccioso op.71??
Quote from: XXXPawn on July 30, 2007, 04:40:32 AM
I recently bought this cd:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Apr06/Arnell_CDLX7161.jpg)
but I haven't come to grips with it yet. A tough nut to crack for me really. I really try to understand this music but I am still a long way off. Sorry.
Thanks for the reply, No 5 may be a better place to start, it is much shorter than No 3 and instantly likeable (in my view anyway!)
Quote from: violinconcerto on July 30, 2007, 07:00:51 AM
Are there any - commerical or not - recordings of his Violin concerto op.9 and his Concerto capriccioso op.71??
Not as far as I'm aware although I heard yesterday that the Bridge label have also recorded all the Arnell symphonies and nos 3 and 4 will be issued shortly.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2007, 11:25:59 AM
No 5 may be a better place to start, it is much shorter than No 3 and instantly likeable (in my view anyway!)
Thanks vandermolen, I will try to obtain the 5th although that may not be so easy.
Quote from: XXXPawn on July 30, 2007, 10:40:58 PM
Thanks vandermolen, I will try to obtain the 5th although that may not be so easy.
You could always get it through Dutton:
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7194
Thanks again vandermolen, I will order via Dutton.
What about this one, are you familiar with this cd:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NsOheen2L._SS500_.jpg)
Arnell. New name for me to explore (I'm planning to make British 20th Century composers a focus over the coming years). I really ought to get some Dutton recordings. I'm endlessly intrigued by the great stuff they appear to be releasing.
Sounds tempting! I'll try his 5th symphony too then :)
vandermolen, I'm a great fan of Vaughan-Williams. Is there any 'connection' between his music and that of Arnell? Or what is Arnell's music like? :)
Quote from: Marple on July 31, 2007, 03:28:00 AM
Is there any 'connection' between his music and that of Arnell? Or what is Arnell's music like? :)
I sometimes think I can discern a certain resemblance with music of George Lloyd (whom I admire). From what I have heard of Arnell (which is not much) Vaughan Williams is far off, no resemblance at all. But vandermolen is probably a better judge.
Quote from: Marple on July 31, 2007, 03:28:00 AM
Sounds tempting! I'll try his 5th symphony too then :)
vandermolen, I'm a great fan of Vaughan-Williams. Is there any 'connection' between his music and that of Arnell? Or what is Arnell's music like? :)
I'm slightly reluctant to suggest comparisons as i tend to get shot down in flames for doing so by those with superior insight ;D
Having said that, I love the music of Vaughan Williams too. Probably the closest to VW are Howells, Finzi non-Planets Holst, Patrick Hadley and, to some extent, Rubbra plus the great Portuguese composer Braga Santos (a neglected genius in my view...try Symphony 1 if you like VW). I think that Arnell is perhaps closer to Walton and Alwyn in spirit with traces of Sibelius and more especially Nielsen. Do try Symphony 5 or the epic No 3 if you can. to me it is one of those pieces that make you feel that life is worth living despite all the vicissitudes involved (pseuds-corner blahblahblah...yes, I know).
Quote from: XXXPawn on July 31, 2007, 02:41:03 AM
Thanks again vandermolen, I will order via Dutton.
What about this one, are you familiar with this cd:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NsOheen2L._SS500_.jpg)
I recently received the CD but have yet to properly listen to it but you have encouraged me to do so tonight and i'll let you know what i think.
Quote from: XXXPawn on July 31, 2007, 03:51:18 AM
I sometimes think I can discern a certain resemblance with music of George Lloyd (whom I admire). From what I have heard of Arnell (which is not much) Vaughan Williams is far off, no resemblance at all. But vandermolen is probably a better judge.
I don't think that my opinion is any more valid than anyone elses but thank you anyway. I don't think that the George Lloyd/Arnell comparison is misplaced...there are elements of populism in the works of both composers and (like Vaughan Williams for that matter) they both wrote good tunes that stay in the mind!
Quote from: vandermolen on July 31, 2007, 11:21:30 AM
I recently received the CD but have yet to properly listen to it but you have encouraged me to do so tonight and i'll let you know what i think.
The same with me. Actually it arrived today and I listened to it once. Interesting music, the piano concerto very lively, the 2nd symphony like the 3d rather long-winded but that is not per se a negative judgment. Anyway, Arnell's music from what I heard sofar is interesting enough for me to order the 5th symphony which you praise so highly, as well, at the Dutton online store. I will let you know but it may take some time before it arrives.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 31, 2007, 11:32:01 AM
there are elements of populism in the works of both composers and (like Vaughan Williams for that matter) they both wrote good tunes that stay in the mind!
Well said! I feel the same. I believe you also mentioned Malcolm Arnold (who is a great favourite of mine) in your opening statement. Now talking about good tunes, there is your man!
Quote from: XXXPawn on July 31, 2007, 11:46:37 AM
Well said! I feel the same. I believe you also mentioned Malcolm Arnold (who is a great favourite of mine) in your opening statement. Now talking about good tunes, there is your man!
Yes, Arnold is a great favourite of mine. Symphony 1 is probably the work of his I play most often. Got his autograph too :)
I enjoyed both the Piano Concerto and Symphony 2 although they did not grab me with the force of the Third or Fifth Symphony. I will need to listen to them several times i think before they really grab me.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 31, 2007, 11:54:44 AM
Yes, Arnold is a great favourite of mine. Symphony 1 is probably the work of his I play most often. Got his autograph too :)
You lucky dog! :D
Reading this I've just found out that I've heard too little of british composers! :) I guess it's caused by the famous continental disadvantage, if you know what I mean. ;)
Arnell, Arnold, Holst, Walton Howells, Finzi, Hadley - I'm going to listen to all of them! ;D
I have just joined this forum having, quite accidentally, discovered its existence whilst doing a Google search for references to Arnell!
I had no idea that Dutton had just released Symphonies Nos.4 and 5. Needless to say I have immediately ordered the CD!
I must confess to being bowled over by the energy and elan of the Piano Concerto and emailed the soloist, David Owen Norris, to congratulate him on rescuing such a refreshing work.
I had been waiting with keen anticipation for Toccata to release the (Arizona) Musica Viva Orchestra's recordings of the Arnell symphonies. Does anyone know what happened to this plan? Anyway, Dutton seem to have stolen a march on any other companies by using a self-confessed devotee in Martin Yates and the RSNO to record these long-overdue works and I, for one, am extremely grateful to that most enterprising company! (Who else would have recently issued the Bainton 2nd and Boughton 1st? Well, I suppose, at one time Chandos might have considered it.)
Delighted to have found this forum! I am afraid that I may use it to punt a number of my favourite under-rated composers! I have people like Peter Racine Fricker, William Wordsworth, Arnold Cooke, Daniel Jones, Alun Hoddinott in mind amongst English composers and the-sadly under-recorded-Hilding Rosenberg amongst others. That however will be for future posts!
Look forward to contributing!
Sorry! My sincerest apologies to the Welsh! On re-reading my own post I should have attributed the correct nationality to Daniel Jones and Alun Hoddinott!
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2007, 06:27:07 AM
I have just joined this forum having, quite accidentally, discovered its existence whilst doing a Google search for references to Arnell!
I had no idea that Dutton had just released Symphonies Nos.4 and 5. Needless to say I have immediately ordered the CD!
I must confess to being bowled over by the energy and elan of the Piano Concerto and emailed the soloist, David Owen Norris, to congratulate him on rescuing such a refreshing work.
I had been waiting with keen anticipation for Toccata to release the (Arizona) Musica Viva Orchestra's recordings of the Arnell symphonies. Does anyone know what happened to this plan? Anyway, Dutton seem to have stolen a march on any other companies by using a self-confessed devotee in Martin Yates and the RSNO to record these long-overdue works and I, for one, am extremely grateful to that most enterprising company! (Who else would have recently issued the Bainton 2nd and Boughton 1st? Well, I suppose, at one time Chandos might have considered it.)
Delighted to have found this forum! I am afraid that I may use it to punt a number of my favourite under-rated composers! I have people like Peter Racine Fricker, William Wordsworth, Arnold Cooke, Daniel Jones, Alun Hoddinott in mind amongst English composers and the-sadly under-recorded-Hilding Rosenberg amongst others. That however will be for future posts!
Look forward to contributing!
Welcome to the forum, where you will find a motley collection of congenial and self-opinionated individuals to discuss your musical interests!
I like all the composers you mention. We really do need a Rosenberg symphony cycle (if they can do it for Tubin and Holmboe they should do it for Rosenberg) although I was pleased that Andrew Davis recorded the great Symphony 3 for Finlandia in Stockholm. Toccata tell me that they will issue Arnell's Third and Fourth symphonies shortly.
I'm sure that you will enjoy Arnell's fourth and fifth symphonies (I find the end of No 5 very moving) and I look forward to hearing your views in due course. Every good wish.
Vandermolen, my Dutton disc with the 4th and 5th arrived yesterday. I listened twice and you were absolutely right, especially the 5th is a great piece of music. Powerfull, moving, what not. Thanks for pointing it out.
QuoteI had no idea that Dutton had just released Symphonies Nos.4 and 5. Needless to say I have immediately ordered the CD!
Same here! ;D Too bad most people are listening to their 46th rendition of Beethoven's 5th instead.
Like to jump in on behalf of Rosenberg. Probably Swedens best composer, and sadly underrecorded. Except for the Caprice complete set, who are recording his quartets for example? Very strange that BIS and cpo have neglected him.
Quote from: XXXPawn on August 05, 2007, 04:09:56 AM
Vandermolen, my Dutton disc with the 4th and 5th arrived yesterday. I listened twice and you were absolutely right, especially the 5th is a great piece of music. Powerfull, moving, what not. Thanks for pointing it out.
So glad that you liked it :)
One of my colleagues bought it and reckoned that it is one of his "discs of the year" and this was on the strength of having only yet played the Fourth Symphony.
How sad that Arnell has been subjected to almost total neglect in recent decades but it is good that he is still around to see two complete cycles of his symphonies being recorded.
Quote from: erato on August 05, 2007, 05:05:55 AM
Like to jump in on behalf of Rosenberg. Probably Swedens best composer, and sadly underrecorded. Except for the Caprice complete set, who are recording his quartets for example? Very strange that BIS and cpo have neglected him.
Totally agree with you; a mystifying omission. Symphony 2-6 are all great works, especially the redemptive endings of 2 and 3.
Apropos of nothing, I strongly recommend Hayasaka's Piano Concerto, in memory of his brother and victims of war, on Naxos; one of my discoveries of the year. It has an epic, memorable and v moving opening movement of c 20 mins.
Yes, Larry, that Monterverdi concert was wonderful. It was your idea, and you also were the one who, 8 years ago, turned my attention to Stockhausen-Verlag in the first place. Thanks!
Quote from: vandermolen on August 05, 2007, 10:30:16 AM
Totally agree with you; a mystifying omission. Symphony 2-6 are all great works, especially the redemptive endings of 2 and 3.
Apropos of nothing, I strongly recommend Hayasaka's Piano Concerto, in memory of his brother and victims of war, on Naxos; one of my discoveries of the year. It has an epic, memorable and v moving opening movement of c 20 mins.
The postings on this thread seem to be straying rather far away from Richard Arnell! However, while it might be better to start a new thread on Hilding Rosenberg, I might just say that Robert von Bahr, the owner of BIS, does seem to have very definite tastes and has totally ignored Rosenberg's music over the years. But then Rosenberg is not alone in this neglect. It was left to that most enterprising German company CPO to record the Swedish symphonic cycles of Kurt Atterberg(BIS did record his 6th), Wilhelm Peterson-Berger, Ture Rangstrom and Dag Wiren. Obviously, von Bahr has no time for Rosenberg et al. Indeed, arguably, BIS has actually done better for some of the other great 20th century Scandinavian symphonists with the complete cycles of the Dane Vagn Holmboe, the Norwegian Harald Saeverud, and the Finns Joonas Kokkonen, Aulis Sallinen(incomplete) and Kalevi Aho(ongoing).
I agree about the merits of those Rosenberg symphonies I have heard-Nos.2-6-but each of these is an old recording(No.5 is actually from the 1940s). I believe that Rosenberg may have withdrawn his 1st. I would love to hear Nos. 7 and 8. Rosenberg was a serious composer rated highly by that great authority on Nordic music, Robert Layton. He was very much the grand old man of Swedish music and his continuing neglect by record companies is most odd. I seem to remember a reference somewhere to a plan for Neeme Jarvi to record the symphonies with the Gothenburg orchestra but obviously this came to nothing. Over to you, CPO!
Quote from: sound67 on August 05, 2007, 10:34:14 AM
It's good there are still enterprising producers around, like Michael Dutton.
Seconded. Another reason for praise is his quickness. If I'm well informed, the recording of the 4th and 5th only took place this Spring - and the CD was released in July or so. With the "big" companies one often has to wait for years.
Due to a holiday spent in Turkey, I missed this recent release. I totally totally agree with all positive comments on the Third, however, one of my greatest recent discoveries. Dutton will soon be short of copies, as all of seem to be ordering it by now.
Is Mehta Jewish? I thought he is Indian...
Gentlemen, I am coming very close to excising a number of these posts that have little to do with Mr. Arnell. If you wish to continue the exchange on other matters, please adjourn to private messages. Thank you. $:)
--Bruce
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 06, 2007, 08:49:41 AM
Is Mehta Jewish? I thought he is Indian...
Mehta is of the Parsi faith. Still, Lebrecht connects him to the "kosher nostra".
Quote from: sound67 on August 06, 2007, 08:40:00 AM
It seems the Mehta-Barenboim-etc. circle is not the only kosher nostra operating in classical music. ;D
Something is going not only away from the subject of the thread, but reveals unfamiliarity with the two artists mentioned.
Zubin Mehta is a Hindu - don't know how seriously his involvement - he only 'acted' at being Jewish at the wedding of Barenboim and DuPrey.
Barenboim is anything but kosher, after all the created the orchestra involving young musicians from Israel and Palestine working together splendidly.
Now what was that all about
Richard Arnell? He got lost in some stampede; let's bring him back, please gentlemen!
uffeviking $:)
Quote from: uffeviking on August 06, 2007, 08:55:55 AM
Something is going not only away from the subject of the thread, but reveals unfamiliarity with the two artists mentioned. Zubin Mehta is a Hindu - don't know how seriously his involvement - he only 'acted' at being Jewish at the wedding of Barenboim and DuPrey.
Barenboim is anything but kosher, after all the created the orchestra involving young musicians from Israel and Palestine working together splendidly.
Now what was that all about Richard Arnell? He got lost in some stampede; let's bring him back, please gentlemen!
uffeviking $:)
I would think you should be more concerned not to endorse anti-Semitic remarks on this forum.
Quote from: sound67 on August 06, 2007, 08:49:01 AM
A-hem. This was an allusion to Norman Lebrecht's book "The Myth of the Maestro".
Mr. Lebrecht is very picky about titles of his books being quoted correctly; it all has to do with publicity and PR!
The Maestro Myth. A Citadel Press Book. Published by Carol Publishing Group
Quote from: sound67 on August 06, 2007, 08:49:01 AM
A-hem. This was an allusion to Norman Lebrecht's book "The Myth of the Maestro". It's a commonly known joke in classical music.
Too bad you didn't get it.
Geez, I don't know about that book. I am not an expert in the biography of conductors but some of the stuff Lebrecht says about some of them, particularly the nasty stuff he said about Bruno Walter (how he is a phony, a miser, and a plain jerk) is highly questionable. I find it hard to take him seriously.
I have temporarily locked this topic, but will be glad to unlock it for further discussion of Arnell's music. Please remember that personal attacks are not appropriate on this forum. Thank you... $:)
Update: topic is now unlocked...please continue. :)
--Bruce
Thanks bhodges for unlocking. I think Arnell is far to important to be the victim of futile and perhaps even insulting dispute.
I had the chance to listen to the 3d symphony a few more times and I am beginning to appreciate this music more and more.
My Dutton CD of Symphonies Nos.4 and 5 have arrived! Only been able to listen to it once so far but have to say I am-again-most impressed. Echoes of Copland and some of the other American symphonists of the time in the 4th-not surprising really considering how long Arnell spent in the USA-and of Sibelius, at times, in the 5th.
What a tragedy that music of this quality should not have been heard for so long! At least Arnell is still alive to witness the revival of interest in his music! The way in which music of this sort should have been so eclipsed in the 1960s is nothing less than a scandal!
In common with others, Arnell was simply a name to me for the last forty years. I had given up hope of hearing his music. Once again, profound thanks to such an enterprising company as Dutton for rescuing such worthwhile music from apparent oblivion.
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 08, 2007, 02:47:55 PM
My Dutton CD of Symphonies Nos.4 and 5 have arrived! Only been able to listen to it once so far but have to say I am-again-most impressed. Echoes of Copland and some of the other American symphonists of the time in the 4th-not surprising really considering how long Arnell spent in the USA-and of Sibelius, at times, in the 5th.
What a tragedy that music of this quality should not have been heard for so long! At least Arnell is still alive to witness the revival of interest in his music! The way in which music of this sort should have been so eclipsed in the 1960s is nothing less than a scandal!
In common with others, Arnell was simply a name to me for the last forty years. I had given up hope of hearing his music. Once again, profound thanks to such an enterprising company as Dutton for rescuing such worthwhile music from apparent oblivion.
Totally agree.
Well I simply cannot stop playing these magnificent works! Both symphonies are superb but the 5th certainly lives up to its reputation.
It would go down a storm at the Proms if only such an audience was ever given the opportunity to hear music of this kind. That would, of course, be asking far too much of the individuals who plan the programmes for the Proms these days!
I cannot recommend this CD enough to anyone of an enquiring disposition. Exciting, dramatic, uplifting music of the highest quality!
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 10, 2007, 06:37:50 AM
I cannot recommend this CD enough to anyone of an enquiring disposition. Exciting, dramatic, uplifting music of the highest quality!
Well said! I totally agree.
My dream is for Richard "Tony" Arnell to be at the Proms to see a performance of his Third or Fifth Symphony but, sadly, for reasons Dundonnell spells out, this is an unlikely scenario. He must, however, be delighted with the renewed interest in his music.
As long as the tastes of Max and Moritz are prevalent among the general public, fat chance for a Proms performance of this music. ;)
Listening to the 2nd Symphony, "Rufus", now. Arrived today, together with Nos. 4 + 5. Utterly compelling music, admittedly Hindemith-ish.
Thomas
Quote from: sound67 on August 10, 2007, 12:31:37 PM
As long as the tastes of Max and Moritz are prevalent among the general public, fat chance for a Proms performance of this music. ;)
Listening to the 2nd Symphony, "Rufus", now. Arrived today, together with Nos. 4 + 5. Utterly compelling music, admittedly Hindemith-ish.
Thomas
Let us know what you think of 4 and 5.
I listened to the 4th and 5th Symphony twice during a lengthy train and bus ride yesterday; a dacapo of the slow movement of the 4th almost made me miss my stop.
The 4th is the more immediately impressive of the two in that at first it seems more cogently argued than the slightly episodic 5th. The claim made above that it must have been influenced by Aaron Copland is totally correct, although I'd argue that Coopland himself never made as persuasive and thrilling a symphonic utterrance as Arnell does here. The tension throughout the three movements just never lets up, "intense" is the word for it. As such, the orchestral writing is very straightforward, there are no chamber-like interludes as there are in the later symphony, it's the whole symphonic aggregate pounding on the listener all the time. The power is increased by Arnell's now familiar technique of repeating a phrase several times over and sustaining a rhythm for extended passages. On listeners who prefer subtelty over power the effect might in fact be over-powering. Shostakovich devotees such as me will love it. ;)
The high point of the work to me was the hymnic slow movement at the center, which gives Copland a run for his money as far as lyrical-yet-ambivalent writing goes. It builds to an almost unbelievably beautiful climax, I just regret that the movement then ends with a somewhat murky afterthought. Maybe it is there just to break the impression of perfect beauty.
If there is a weak spot here it may be the all-too-short final movement (timings go: I- 13:05; II- 9:28; III- 4:03) which makes for a slightly uneasy structural balance in this piece. The work ends very abruptly. I cannot help thinking this is a war symphony (it was written in 1948), given the gloominess of the first movement especially.
The fifth I have yet to hear more often to make a comment. It is more subtle, more open, more chilling in its orchestral colours perhaps.
Thomas
Thanks Thomas for such an in depth and thoughtful analysis. I agree about the Copland connection; at one point in Symphony 5 I was even reminded of Bruckner! (about 7 mins into the slow movement).
I love both works but, for me, the greatest passage on the disc is the closing few minutes of Symphony 5, but I guess that I am something of a sentimentalist :)
Jeffrey
Quote from: vandermolen on August 12, 2007, 01:20:32 AM
Thanks Thomas for such an in depth and thoughtful analysis. I agree about the Copland connection; at one point in Symphony 5 I was even reminded of Bruckner! (about 7 mins into the slow movement).
I love both works but, for me, the greatest passage on the disc is the closing few minutes of Symphony 5, but I guess that I am something of a sentimentalist :)
Jeffrey
I see what you mean with the reference to Bruckner. What I am reminded of in the slow movement of the 5th is the Britten of the 'Dawn' Sea Interlude from 'Peter Grimes'. I totally agree about the closing pages of the 5th-they have me cheering!
In David Wright's article on Arnell on the web he quotes someone as describing Arnell as an "English Rachmaninov". Well, I don't particularly care for Rachmaninov's music and that rather put me off. I can now, however, totally agree with the late Bryden Thomson's commen that the 5th is "a work to fall in love with".
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 12, 2007, 04:52:43 AM
I see what you mean with the reference to Bruckner. What I am reminded of in the slow movement of the 5th is the Britten of the 'Dawn' Sea Interlude from 'Peter Grimes'. I totally agree about the closing pages of the 5th-they have me cheering!
In David Wright's article on Arnell on the web he quotes someone as describing Arnell as an "English Rachmaninov". Well, I don't particularly care for Rachmaninov's music and that rather put me off. I can now, however, totally agree with the late Bryden Thomson's commen that the 5th is "a work to fall in love with".
I see what you mean too about the Peter Grimes "Sea Interludes" connection, especially at the very start of the slow movement of Symphony 5. Bryden Thomson (a much underrated conductor) was right. I am listening to No 5 for the umpteenth time. There are sections (in the middle of the slow movement) which reminded me of another fine and largely unknown score: John Kinsella's Third Symphony (Marco Polo). Kinsella is an Irish composer (former Head of Classical Music at RTE). I was alerted to his music when Gramophone suggested that it should appeal to admirers of Tubin and Lilburn (whose music I love). I've written to Gramophone hoping that they Acknowledge Arnell's 90th bithday in September (and to BBC Music Magazine too). Maybe they will make some amends for the total lack of Arnell's music at the Proms. We shall see!
HAPPY 90th BIRTHDAY RICHARD ARNELL
(born 15th September 1917) :)
Those who have been collecting the excellent Dutton series of Richard Arnell's symphonies(Nos.2-5 have been released so far) may be interested to learn that his "Lord Byron: A Symphonic Portrait"(1952) will be issued by that most enterprising of British companies on October 22nd. The piece is coupled with Thomas Dunhill's Symphony in A minor(1914-16) and played by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra conducted by Martin Yates(CDLX7915).
Thomas Dunhill(1877-1946), a pupil of Stanford, is another of those previously largely forgotten British composers whose work is at last seeing the light of day thanks to the unstinting efforts of people like Lewis Foreman(who appears to be Dutton's British Music Adviser!).
There is a good article about Dunhill on the Musicweb site. Apparently the Symphony(which the article dates as 1922) is subtitled 'Belgrade' and was first performed in that city-surely a unique distinction for a British symphony premiere!
(Incidentally, Dutton is also releasing this month another CD containing the Scottish composer Erik Chisholm's Symphony No.2 'Ossian' coupled with some music by Eric Fogg and Trevor Hold(two new names to me)(CDLX7196))
We used to be told by the big companies that they couldn't possibly record music by composers like these because there was no market for their music and there would be no profit. How do these small companies manage it?????
Exciting news about these new releases. Thanks
(http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/prodimages/7161.gif)
I have listened many times to Arnell's 3d symphony and I now know this symphony to be a masterwork. It is from now on definetely in my shortlist of great symphonies. So far I bought the three Dutton discs (S3, Piano Co with S2, and S4&5). Does anyone know whether there will be more symphonies on the Dutton label?
Delighted to hear that you share our enthusiasm for this composer!! Don't miss the recent Dutton CD with the 'Lord Byron'-a Symphonic Portrait (coupled with Thomas Dunhill's Symphony).
In answer to your question, it is inconceivable that Dutton will not release Arnell's 1st and 6th symphonies. Whether they will be coupled together however is a moot point since they would pose a considerable contrast. Symphony No.1 was written in the USA during the war and is sometimes called the Chamber Symphony whereas the 6th symphony "The Anvil" is a work from the 1990s and is more dissonant than Arnell's other symphonies.
AND...whatever happened to the other complete cycle of the symphonies recorded for Toccata Classics by the Musica Nova orchestra of Arizona conducted by Warren Cohen? According to the Musica Nova website, the intention was to release the first CD(Nos. 3 and 6) in October 2006 and Nos. 1 and 4 in February 2007. I found this odd at the time since Symphony No.3 is over 60 minutes long-so, presumably the 6th symphony must be very short.
According to the article on Arnell by David Wright on the Musicweb website, Arnell was working on a 7th symphony for Nelson Mandela. Warren Cohen, however, states that the 7th symphony was being written in 2005 and dedicated to him!
All very peculiar!! What will Toccata do now? If CD collectors were going to buy Arnell symphonies they would probably have already gone for the very reasonably priced Dutton with the RSNO rather than an unknown Arizona orchestra?
Quote from: Thom on November 18, 2007, 05:30:05 AM
(http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/prodimages/7161.gif)
I have listened many times to Arnell's 3d symphony and I now know this symphony to be a masterwork. It is from now on definetely in my shortlist of great symphonies. So far I bought the three Dutton discs (S3, Piano Co with S2, and S4&5). Does anyone know whether there will be more symphonies on the Dutton label?
I'm glad too Thom that you like these works. I would say that Arnell is the discovery of the year for me. Symphonies 3-5 are all absolutely first rate. Obsessive Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder (OCCDCD) will probably mean that I end up collecting the Toccata series too, if it ever appears. Also on Dutton is Edgar Bainton's fine Third Symphony,which has been another great discovery of this year.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 18, 2007, 02:30:07 PM
I'm glad too Thom that you like these works. I would say that Arnell is the discovery of the year for me. Symphonies 3-5 are all absolutely first rate. Obsessive Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder (OCCDCD) will probably mean that I end up collecting the Toccata series too, if it ever appears. Also on Dutton is Edgar Bainton's fine Third Symphony,which has been another great discovery of this year.
O yes, I am a great fan. I have also ordered the Dunhill/Arnell disk. Edgar Bainton, well I never heard of him either. Are we talking about an Arnell-like composer? Could you give some specifics of his music?
I have some works from Bainton on Chandos Thom, and what I can remember is that it sounded like Moeran, robust...
I will get it out, and listen. :)
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/1567760?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist
Quote from: Harry on November 19, 2007, 09:51:28 AM
I have some works from Bainton on Chandos Thom, and what I can remember is that it sounded like Moeran, robust...
I will get it out, and listen. :)
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/1567760?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist
Thanks Harry, that is a good enough recommendation for me. I was bowled over so to speak by Moeran's Symphony in G minor when I first heard it not so long ago.
Quote from: Thom on November 19, 2007, 10:10:29 AM
Thanks Harry, that is a good enough recommendation for me. I was bowled over so to speak by Moeran's Symphony in G minor when I first heard it not so long ago.
I have to listen to it again Thom, but the fact that I have it, and kept it must mean something... :)
My Dunhill/Arnell cd arrived today
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61sTR4DI5KL._SS500_.jpg)
I like the Lord Byron symphonic portrait by Arnell. I am beginning to recognise his sound, it really is great listening. Tomorrow it is Dunhill again, I must say also promising.
Th.
There supposedly is also a sixth symphony by Arnell. Is there a recording of his 6th? Google didn't find one.
There is now a new recording of the 4th and 5th:
RICHARD ARNELL: Symphonies Nos. 4 & 5 - MusicaNova Orchestra/Warren Cohen - Con Brio Recordings
See: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210 (http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210)
Thom
Quote from: Thom on May 18, 2008, 03:54:01 AM
There supposedly is also a sixth symphony by Arnell. Is there a recording of his 6th? Google didn't find one.
There is now a new recording of the 4th and 5th:
RICHARD ARNELL: Symphonies Nos. 4 & 5 - MusicaNova Orchestra/Warren Cohen - Con Brio Recordings
See: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210 (http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210)
Thom
There is indeed a sixth symphony. It is subtitled 'The Anvil' and was written between 1992-94. According to the highly informative(if frequently contentious) Dr. David Wright on Musicweb the symphony begins with a piano chord and a clang on the anvil, the third section uses the piano in a concertante style and the last section draws on the ode to Joy from Beethoven's Choral Symphony" The symphony was premiered in a broadcast by the BBC Philharmonic under Adrian Leaper in 1995. Wright says that it is a compelling piece but that, unlike the others, it does display "striking dissonances". I have no idea how long the symphony lasts but presumed that it would be coupled with the Symphony No.1(sometimes called the Chamber Symphony) and would be issued by Dutton in due course. I cannot imagine that Dutton will not record these works-indeed they may already have done so!
Yes, I too noticed the Con Brio recording of Nos. 4 and 5. This is the first instalment of the cycle which was originally intended to be released by Toccata Classics but perhaps that rather odd company(well their releases are rather an odd lot, I mean!) pulled out after Dutton started its release programme? The more Arnell the better but the MusicaNova Orchestra? Hmm!
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 18, 2008, 04:27:56 AM
The more Arnell the better
Thanks Dundonnell. I now completely agree! Arnell was my big discovery in 2007.
Th.
Quote from: Thom on May 18, 2008, 03:54:01 AM
There supposedly is also a sixth symphony by Arnell. Is there a recording of his 6th? Google didn't find one.
There is now a new recording of the 4th and 5th:
RICHARD ARNELL: Symphonies Nos. 4 & 5 - MusicaNova Orchestra/Warren Cohen - Con Brio Recordings
See: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210 (http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=4210)
Thom
I have the new Arnell no 4 and 5. Very different from the Dutton but just as good.
Dutton have just announced the release of another CD in their Arnell series!
I had hoped that the next one would be Symphonies Nos. 1 and 6(oh dear, I am so obsessed by symphonies :-[) and was rather disappointed to find that the new CD contains two Arnell Ballets-"The Great Detective"(Sherlock Holmes) and "The Angels".
However, according to the Dutton website, Arnell himself has said that "The Angels is an abstract, symphonically structured work. The form is intricate and is as carefully considered as if the work had ben designed for the concert hall. It is, in fact, a symphony"(ahha, cheers!). The website also says that "The Angels" is squarely in the idiom of Symphonies Nos. 4 and 5 and that the slow movement is one of Arnell's greatest.
That sounds good to me! Another purchase beckons!
Jeffrey, when you return from your walking hols in Austria, here is one for you too :)
I ordered it immediately. Arnell is Arnell. Still waiting for the delivery.
Th.
I am going to listen to this later today:
(http://www.emusic.com/music/images/album/289/112/012/11201212/300x300.jpg)
Edit: I'll download/listen to No. 5 first.
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 23, 2008, 05:05:16 PM
Dutton have just announced the release of another CD in their Arnell series!
I had hoped that the next one would be Symphonies Nos. 1 and 6(oh dear, I am so obsessed by symphonies :-[) and was rather disappointed to find that the new CD contains two Arnell Ballets-"The Great Detective"(Sherlock Holmes) and "The Angels".
However, according to the Dutton website, Arnell himself has said that "The Angels is an abstract, symphonically structured work. The form is intricate and is as carefully considered as if the work had ben designed for the concert hall. It is, in fact, a symphony"(ahha, cheers!). The website also says that "The Angels" is squarely in the idiom of Symphonies Nos. 4 and 5 and that the slow movement is one of Arnell's greatest.
That sounds good to me! Another purchase beckons!
Jeffrey, when you return from your walking hols in Austria, here is one for you too :)
Hi Colin,
Thank you. I am back now. I was like a mountain goat in the Austrian Alps but can now hardly walk. I even found a CD shop in Kitzbuhel (bought Furtwangler conducting Bruckner's 7th Cairo 1951). Back to Arnell. I noticed the new release before I left. I have "The Great Detective" on an old EMI CD. I too hoped that they would issue Symphony No 6 as the next installment.
Jeffrey
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2008, 04:41:18 AM
Hi Colin,
Thank you. I am back now. I was like a mountain goat in the Austrian Alps but can now hardly walk. I even found a CD shop in Kitzbuhel (bought Furtwangler conducting Bruckner's 7th Cairo 1951). Back to Arnell. I noticed the new release before I left. I have "The Great Detective" on an old EMI CD. I too hoped that they would issue Symphony No 6 as the next installment.
Jeffrey
Welcome back, Jeffrey! Ah, that is what holidays are all about-coming home in worse condition than when you left :) Seriously, I hope that you had a great time! I took a school trip to Pertisau on the Achensee(which is not far from Kitzbuhel) in 1978. It rained most of the time!
(Interesting to see that the Germans did eventually get to Cairo nine years late(joke!!!))
Hope Dutton do intend to record the first and sixth symphonies soon, as well as Arnell's other orchestral works.
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 25, 2008, 05:49:36 AM
Welcome back, Jeffrey! Ah, that is what holidays are all about-coming home is worse condition than when you left :) Seriously, I hope that you had a great time! I took a school trip to Pertisau on the Achensee(which is not far from Kitzbuhel) in 1978. It rained most of the time!
(Interesting to see that the Germans did eventually get to Cairo nine years late(joke!!!))
Hope Dutton do intend to record the first and sixth symphonies soon, as well as Arnell's other orchestral works.
Thanks Colin :)
It rained most of the time when I was there too, but I still had a great time.
Sad but unsurprising to see no Arnell at the Proms. One lives in hope but at least we have the recordings.
Welcome back, Jeffrey! And happy convalescing. ;)
Tonight I'll have my first Arnell experience - his Fifth. I'll report back.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 25, 2008, 06:45:22 AM
Welcome back, Jeffrey! And happy convalescing. ;)
Tonight I'll have my first Arnell experience - his Fifth. I'll report back.
Thanks Johan,
I'm sure you'll like No 5. Colin said that the end part had him wanting to cheer. Me too!
Happy listening.
And that 1000th post made you into a Veteran Member, Jeffrey! Congratulations!
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2008, 09:41:12 AM
Thanks Johan,
I'm sure you'll like No 5. Colin said that the end part had him wanting to cheer. Me too!
Happy listening.
Congratulations from me as well on your 1,000th post, Jeffrey!
Did I say that the finale had me "wanting to cheer"? Sounds quite probable :) Must put the disc on again asap ;D
Talking about cheering-I have two versions of the Mahler 1st-one of my favourite symphonies: the famous 1964 LSO/Solti version and a live performance from 1990 with the Chicago Symphony under the late Klaus Tennstedt. This latter Tennstedt recording came out on EMI in 1991 but quickly disappeared although the performance has now reappeared on DVD. It was criticised as being too slow at almost 61 minutes but the finale is as exciting as anything I have ever heard with all the electricity of a live performance. The Chicago brass fanfares are like fireworks going off and the ending of the symphony is just so overwhelmingly exciting that I never fail to cheer(unless that is I am conducting the work myself with my conductor's baton in my sitting room....ok, that's a really guilty secret out of the bag :))
Sorry for the digression!
In his article on Arnell on the Musicweb site David Wright said that the ending of Arnell's 5th left a friend saying "I thought I was in heaven, listening to the music of angels" and quotes Bryden Thomson as saying that it was "a work to fall in love with".
Look forward to your verdict, Johan!
Well, I just listened to the first movement of the Fifth - Arnell is a symphonist in the dark and epic mould. The opening alone is very arresting. I am impressed.
I am inclined to listen to the movement a second time, before proceeding...
Is the Fourth just as good?
Quote from: Jezetha on July 25, 2008, 12:46:36 PM
Well, I just listened to the first movement of the Fifth - Arnell is a symphonist in the dark and epic mould. The opening alone is very arresting. I am impressed.
I am inclined to listen to the movement a second time, before proceeding...
Is the Fourth just as good?
Oh..what a question! The fourth is the symphony which-at the time-struck me as having the most in common with the great American symphonists of the mid century period, particularly Harris and Copland. sound67 wrote a very perceptive post about it(above). He argued that it was more cogently argued than No.5 and heaped high praise on the first two movements in particular. The work is grim, intense but also supremely lyrical. Perhaps it doesn't wear its heart on its sleeve as much as No.5-it is not as 'triumphal'- but it is too a great work!
Sorry-probably not an answer to your question!
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 25, 2008, 12:58:04 PM
Oh..what a question! The fourth is the symphony which-at the time-struck me as having the most in common with the great American symphonists of the mid century period, particularly Harris and Copland. sound67 wrote a very perceptive post about it(above). He argued that it was more cogently argued than No.5 and heaped high praise on the first two movements in particular. The work is grim, intense but also supremely lyrical. Perhaps it doesn't wear its heart on its sleeve as much as No.5-it is not as 'triumphal'- but it is too a great work!
Sorry-probably not an answer to your question!
Don't be sorry! If that wasn't an answer, Colin, you might have pointed me to one that was... ;)
Edit: good post by sound67 (Thomas). I must listen to 4, too. But 5 first...
Quote from: vandermolen on May 18, 2008, 05:29:54 AM
I have the new Arnell no 4 and 5. Very different from the Dutton but just as good.
I don't know Arnell but am curious, and would be interested to receive advice on which disc of symphonies 4 and 5 will best convince me (did anyone imagine such a question possible a year ago?). I like a vigorous romantic approach, but most important is a convincing sense of structure.
Thank you Johan for alerting me to my 1000th post on the Forum, I noticed a while back that I had posted c 990 times but would have missed this great moment ( ;D) had you not alerted me to it. Thanks Colin too for your good wishes. I too own a conductors baton and have conducted all the great orchestras of the world from my living room, sometimes indulging in Leonard Bernstein type dramatic choreographic gestures (although I always ensure that the living room curtains are closed, so that I can not be observed from the street :o)
I have ordered the Arnell CD "The Great Detective" etc.
Eyeresist,
I would be inclined to go for the Dutton CD of symphonies 4 and 5. I know that Arnell himself is delighted with the Dutton performances. In a response to my fan mail he said "I have passed your letter on to the excellent conductor Martin Yates.."
Johan,
I think that symphonies 3-5 are all wonderful and I have been appreciating No 2 more and more. The greatest moment of all for me is the end of No 5. The Symphony is dedicated in memory of Arnell's father, who liked to sing a music hall song "Dear old Pals, jolly old Pals". This appears at the end of the Symphony No 5 and is my favourite Arnell moment of all.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 26, 2008, 02:01:35 AM
I too own a conductors baton and have conducted all the great orchestras of the world from my living room, sometimes indulging in Leonard Bernstein type dramatic choreographic gestures (although I always ensure that the living room curtains are closed, so that I can not be observed from the street :o)
We've all been there. ;) My Brian performances are legendary.
QuoteI think that symphonies 3-5 are all wonderful and I have been appreciating No 2 more and more. The greatest moment of all for me is the end of No 5. The Symphony is dedicated in memory of Arnell's father, who liked to sing a music hall song "Dear old Pals, jolly old Pals". This appears at the end of the Symphony No 5 and is my favourite Arnell moment of all.
As I wrote earlier, I have listened to the first movement of the Fifth, which I found very powerful indeed. I am busy with an important passage in my novel, and want to listen to the whole of the work when I can devote all my intellectual and emotional attention to it. It would be wrong to hear that ending, for instance, for the first time ever whilst not being
there completely...
Quote from: Jezetha on July 26, 2008, 02:13:05 AM
We've all been there. ;) My Brian performances are legendary.
:) Sorry I wasn't there to see them. My greatest moment was probably the end of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony.
ps good luck with the novel.
I listened to the 4th and 5th symphonies again last night in an attempt to validate what I was trying to say above. Tremendous symphonies both and I am pleased that my judgments on both held up :) As I think that you said earlier, Jeffrey, how one would like to imagine Arnell's 5th being played at the Proms! Top rank orchestra, good conductor....it would indeed raise the roof and bring the house down(interesting mixed metaphors :)). Won't happen, of course, at least not in the next few years :(
Conducting in the privacy of one's own home can be a dangerous business. Certainly scares my cat :) I can recall a couple of accidents as the baton struck some item of furniture or other :( If I had to chose one activity however which would bring me the greatest pleasure in life it would be to conduct a huge orchestra and choir in some great piece of music. And...if I had to choose which........
the last two movements of the Mahler 2nd 'The Resurrection" :) :) :)
(Trouble is...I would probably drop dead with a coronary towards the end ;D :)_
We'll spare you the 'Judex' movement then, from the Gothic. My choice...
I'm looking forward to the Arnell 4th too, now!
If we only had Gilbert Kaplan's money, Johan :( :)
My cat also takes a dim view of my conducting activities.
Listened to "The Great Detective" and "The Angels" tonight. Both very enjoyable. I was reminded of Copland in many places. Neither grabbed me initially as much as symphonies 3-5 on first hearing, but they both left me wanting to replay the CD. I was astonished to read that Arnell is the grandfather of Boris Johnson, the new Mayor of London :o
Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2008, 02:05:08 PM
I was astonished to read that Arnell is the grandfather of Boris Johnson, the new Mayor of London :o
:o :o ;D ;D
Quote from: Jezetha on July 30, 2008, 02:30:12 PM
:o :o ;D ;D
Bizarre, isn't it? But that's what it says in the booklet notes.
I've just listened to the whole CD again and like it more and more. The Angels, in particular. The slow movement is quite beautiful and the very beginning and end of the work is especially memorable. The Great Detective is good fun with some great moments.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2008, 02:47:25 PM
Bizarre, isn't it? But that's what it says in the booklet notes.
I've just listened to the whole CD again and like it more and more. The Angels, in particular. The slow movement is quite beautiful and the very beginning and end of the work is especially memorable. The Great Detective is good fun with some great moments.
I wonder why they care to mention it in the first place (but I wonder too what this tells us of Boris...)
I am still looking forward to listening to 4 & 5, btw. Perhaps tomorrow. I must be in a receptive mood for unknown music. At the moment I am rather creative, ergo: can't have too many things really impinging...
(Addition: nice new Myaskovsky avatar, Jeffrey!)
Quote from: Jezetha on July 30, 2008, 02:52:38 PM
I wonder why they care to mention it in the first place (and I wonder what this tells us of Boris...)
I am still looking forward to listening to 4 & 5, btw. Perhaps tomorrow. I must be in a receptive mood for unknown music. At the moment I am rather creative, ergo: can't have too many things really impinging...
I'm sure that you will really like No 5, especially the end! (No 4 is great too). I look forward to hearing your reactions.
The harps at the end of The Angels remind me of the very end of VW's 9th symphony.
Boris Johnson is also the son-in-law of the recently deceased great British TV and Radio journalist, Sir Charles Wheeler.
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 30, 2008, 04:49:05 PM
Boris Johnson is also the son-in-law of the recently deceased great British TV and Radio journalist, Sir Charles Wheeler.
They share(d) great hair - Charles Wheeler's daughter must like that...
Amateur psychology, I know. ;)
On topic: listening to Arnell's Fifth. I am in the middle movement. Strong work. He is like Brian without the counterpoint - epic power, grimness, grit, unsentimental lyricism. Can't wait for that much-praised coda...
Quote from: Jezetha on July 30, 2008, 10:17:07 PM
They share(d) great hair - Charles Wheeler's daughter must like that...
Amateur psychology, I know. ;)
On topic: listening to Arnell's Fifth. I am in the middle movement. Strong work. He is like Brian without the counterpoint - epic power, grimness, grit, unsentimental lyricism. Can't wait for that much-praised coda...
Johan, congratulations on your 3000th post! I suggest that you celebrate by finally listening to the end of Arnell's 5th Symphony 8)
(Am pleased you like the new NM avatar)
Quote from: vandermolen on July 31, 2008, 12:05:11 PM
Johan, congratulations on your 3000th post! I suggest that you celebrate by finally listening to the end of Arnell's 5th Symphony 8)
(Am pleased you like the new NM avatar)
Thank you!
I already have listened to that end, of course! My verdict - great conclusion. As if the music wants to conjure up the father. Beautifully done.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 31, 2008, 12:10:46 PM
Thank you!
As if the music wants to conjure up the father. Beautifully done.
And beautifully put! You are so right :)
Quote from: Jezetha on July 31, 2008, 12:10:46 PM
Thank you!
I already have listened to that end, of course! My verdict - great conclusion. As if the music wants to conjure up the father. Beautifully done.
And did it leave YOU wanting to cheer? :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 31, 2008, 01:53:12 PM
And did it leave YOU wanting to cheer? :)
No... And that is because of that wonderful and rather wistfully introspective passage just before the coda. That quiet passage, with its mournful accent, to me is so strong that it makes the closing bars not as unequivocally rousing as they otherwise would have been. Sorrow seems subtly to outweigh triumph...
Quote from: Jezetha on July 31, 2008, 02:07:38 PM
No... And that is because of that wonderful and rather wistfully introspective passage just before the coda. That quiet passage, with its mournful accent, to me is so strong that it makes the closing bars not as unequivocally rousing as they otherwise would have been. Sorrow seems subtly to outweigh triumph...
Oh... :(
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2008, 02:11:43 PM
Oh... :(
Cheer up, Colin! :) I am hardly depressed at the end! But it is as I said.
You are clearly a more perceptive listener than I am :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2008, 02:21:48 PM
You are clearly a more perceptive listener than I am :)
It's only
my view. I could be hearing too much!
Quote from: Jezetha on August 01, 2008, 02:43:44 PM
It's only my view. I could be hearing too much!
No, no, Johan......don't worry :) :) Sorry!!
I am just frustrated at how difficult it was to copy three album covers into the 'Purchases Today' thread(took me four attempts because of resizing issues!).
(Also hacked off that nine minutes away from my birthday I am in a bit of pain :()
MANY HAPPY [AND PAINLESS] RETURNS, COLIN!!
(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music13.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/ill1.gif) (http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music25.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/celebrate8.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music10.gif)
Quote from: Jezetha on August 01, 2008, 03:00:39 PM
MANY HAPPY [AND PAINLESS] RETURNS, COLIN!!
(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music13.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/ill1.gif) (http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music25.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/celebrate8.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music10.gif)
THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED!! I really appreciate that :)
(I did get a letter from the surgeon today to tell me that I would hear "soon" about my op. I bet 'soon' is a word of considerable elasticity!)
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2008, 03:04:58 PM
(I did get a letter from the surgeon today to tell me that I would hear "soon" about my op. I bet 'soon' is a word of considerable elasticity!)
His assistant could have simply phoned you. They're playing for time... 'Elastic', indeed.
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
No, no, Johan......don't worry :) :) Sorry!!
I am just frustrated at how difficult it was to copy three album covers into the 'Purchases Today' thread(took me four attempts because of resizing issues!).
(Also hacked off that nine minutes away from my birthday I am in a bit of pain :()
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FROM ME TOO COLIN! :) :) :)
Jeffrey
Quote from: vandermolen on August 02, 2008, 12:18:25 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FROM ME TOO COLIN! :) :) :)
Quote from: Jezetha on August 01, 2008, 03:00:39 PMMANY HAPPY [AND PAINLESS] RETURNS, COLIN!! (http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music13.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/ill1.gif) (http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music25.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/celebrate8.gif)(http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/music10.gif)
As always, I'm a bit late. Still: many happy returns, dear Colin !! Hope you wille enjoy many fine new Arnell recordings to follow :D :D :) :)
Just picked up Arnell's "Lord Byron - Symphonic Portrait" during my Proms trip:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61sTR4DI5KL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Thomas
Quote from: vandermolen on August 02, 2008, 12:18:25 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FROM ME TOO COLIN! :) :) :)
Jeffrey
Thank you very much, Jeffrey!
Quote from: Christo on August 02, 2008, 12:24:25 AM
As always, I'm a bit late. Still: many happy returns, dear Colin !! Hope you wille enjoy many fine new Arnell recordings to follow :D :D :) :)
Bedankt, Johan!!
Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2008, 02:47:25 PM
Bizarre, isn't it? But that's what it says in the booklet notes.
I've just listened to the whole CD again and like it more and more. The Angels, in particular. The slow movement is quite beautiful and the very beginning and end of the work is especially memorable. The Great Detective is good fun with some great moments.
I agree with you about the new Arnell Ballets CD from Dutton. "The Angels" is a particularly impressive score with a splendid slow movement. In his booklet notes the indefatigable advocate of lesser-known British music, Lewis Foreman, jokes that those involved with the recording christened that score as Arnell's Symphony No. 5 and a half :) It certainly is a symphonic work of genuine substance.
I don't wish to be morbid but, given Arnell's age(91) I do hope that Dutton intend to record more of his music sooner rather than later.
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 03, 2008, 04:23:58 PM
I agree with you about the new Arnell Ballets CD from Dutton. "The Angels" is a particularly impressive score with a splendid slow movement. In his booklet notes the indefatigable advocate of lesser-known British music, Lewis Foreman, jokes that those involved with the recording christened that score as Arnell's Symphony No. 5 and a half :) It certainly is a symphonic work of genuine substance.
I don't wish to be morbid but, given Arnell's age(91) I do hope that Dutton intend to record more of his music sooner rather than later.
Yes, me too but at least he has lived to see two cycles of his symphonies being recorded and much renewed interest in his music on both sides of the Atlantic. Just wished they'd played Symphony 5 (or 3) at the Proms with the old man in attendance. But that is sadly unrealistic.
I agree with you Jeffrey about the Ballet Music cd: The Angels is definitely the better score, however - I may add - not in the same league as the symphonies. Still a nice addition to his discography. Couldn't agree more with your wish about Dutton to record more.
Quote from: Thom on August 11, 2008, 06:55:07 AM
I agree with you Jeffrey about the Ballet Music cd: The Angels is definitely the better score, however - I may add - not in the same league as the symphonies. Still a nice addition to his discography. Couldn't agree more with your wish about Dutton to record more.
Hi Thom,
I find that I am enjoying the Dutton CD with the Symphony 2 and Piano Concerto on more and more. No 3 and 5 remain my favourites; terrific scores which deserve performances.
Best wishes
Jeffrey
Hello Jeffrey,
Yes we agree. S2 and the piano co are gradually catching up with the other symphonies, the more i listen to them. What happened with the first symphony by the way? Was is withdrawn by Arnell or is there a chance that the 1st will be released by Dutton also?
Thom
Quote from: Thom on August 11, 2008, 10:52:32 PM
Hello Jeffrey,
Yes we agree. S2 and the piano co are gradually catching up with the other symphonies, the more i listen to them. What happened with the first symphony by the way? Was is withdrawn by Arnell or is there a chance that the 1st will be released by Dutton also?
Thom
Hi Thom,
The article below has some info about Symphony 1 ("Chamber Symphony"). No idea about a recording but I'll keep my fingers crossed!
http://www.musicweb-international.com/arnell/index.htm
There is also now an Arnell website but the link to the musical extract from Symphony 1 does not work:
http://www.richardarnell.com/index.html
Jeffrey
yes of course, that article. I read it some time ago but forgot. The writer calls the 1st "......a very attractive work full of melodic invention, an enviable clarity of texture and a welcome contrast of energy and tenderness." so there may be hope that it is considered worth of a recording.
Thank you for the url to that website. Didn't know that one.
Thom
Quote from: vandermolen on August 12, 2008, 12:23:23 AM
The article below has some info about Symphony 1 ("Chamber Symphony"). No idea about a recording but I'll keep my fingers crossed!
According to the info provided by the Music Director of MusicaNova, coming with their new release of the fourth and fifth symphonies (see Musicweb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/May08/arnell45_CBR27452.htm), they have recorded all six of the symphonies!
"We have not mastered any of the remaining works - both time and money are at a premium, but I fully intend to get on trying to get more finished this summer, and if possible to record some more works - we did the
Sinfonia Quasi Variazione and
Ode to the West Wind as a 90th birthday tribute to Arnell this part fall, and the works were very enthusiastically received."
http://www.musicanovaaz.org/recordingsrelease8_14_05.htm (http://www.musicanovaaz.org/recordingsrelease8_14_05.htm)
This is an interesting though maybe somewhat outdated newsitem on the Musica Nova website. In it a schedule is mentioned: "The first recording, which includes Symphonies no. 2 and no. 5, will be internationally released in June of 2006 with Symphonies no. 3 and no. 6 released in October of 2006 and Symphonies no. 1 and no. 4 released in February of 2007.". This schedule is obviously outdated.
Worthwhile mentioning is also this quote:
"At this very moment, Arnell is working on Symphony no.7, which he is dedicating to me," continued Cohen. And if he has it ready in time (and it is 20 minutes long, as he says it will be) we will add it to the third CD, giving us Symphonies no. 1, no. 4 and no. 7 on that one."
Quote from: Thom on August 12, 2008, 03:44:31 AM
"At this very moment, Arnell is working on Symphony no.7, which he is dedicating to me," continued Cohen. And if he has it ready in time (and it is 20 minutes long, as he says it will be) we will add it to the third CD, giving us Symphonies no. 1, no. 4 and no. 7 on that one."
What wonderful news. If only more composers could have such kind advocacy...
One of the obvious difficulties with small record companies is that they operate on shoestring budgets. As a consequence their ambitious plans often prove over-ambitious and the timescales they indicate for releasing new recordings prove unrealistic. This appears to be the case with the Musica Nova plans for releasing Arnell recordings.
Originally the plan seemed to be for Toccata to release an Arnell cycle. When Toccata was launched the intention, apparently, was to release the complete orchestral works of the influential British composer and teacher R.O.Morris(recorded by a Russian orchestra conducted by Gary Brain) but I certainly have heard no further news about this. The Toccata releases have concentrated on chamber and instrumental music and CDs of music from the Baltic countries by totally unknown composers.
Whether or not Arnell has actually composed a 7th symphony or not I do not know. Sometimes record companies are relatively open about their recording and release plans. CPO published its full 2008 release schedule at the beginning of the year. Others-no doubt for commercial reasons-keep these under wraps.
It can all be very frustrating!
Arnell's Symphony 1 and 6 just released on Dutton:
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7217
Quote from: vandermolen on October 25, 2008, 04:29:36 AM
Arnell's Symphony 1 and 6 just released on Dutton:
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7217
You just beat me to it, Jeffrey :) I was just lining up the link for my post, haha!!
What you don't mention though is that the two symphonies are coupled with the early Sinfonia quasi variazioni, op. 13-effectively Arnell's Symphony 'No.0'-which makes this cd even more desirable(if that's possible!).
And, if that is not all......Dutton are also releasing two more mouth-watering British orchestral music cds: the first a coupling of Stanley Bate's Viola Concerto(oh, if it was the 3rd Symphony instead, says he ungratefully), W.H. Bell's Viola Concerto "Rosa Mystica" and an orchestration of VW's Romance for Viola. (W.H. Bell was a British composer who emigrated to and taught in South Africa but the Viola Concerto dates from 1917). The second cd couples some short, orchestrated minatures by John Ireland with Goossen's Variations on 'Cadel Rousselle' and Peter Crossley-Holland's tonal, VW-inspired Symphony in D.
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.asp?cat=366&pg=6
Oh, this is a good morning for British music lovers :) :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 04:40:18 AM
You just beat me too it, Jeffrey :) I was just lining up the link for my post, haha!!
What you don't mention though is that the two symphonies are coupled with the early Sinfonia quasi variazioni, op. 13-effectively Arnell's Symphony 'No.0'-which makes this cd even more desirable(if that's possible!).
And, if that is not all......Dutton are also releasing two more mouth-watering British orchestral music cds: the first a coupling of Stanley Bate's Viola Concerto(oh, if it was the 3rd Symphony instead, says he ungratefully), W.H. Bell's Viola Concerto "Rosa Mystica" and an orchestration of VW's Romance for Viola. (W.H. Bell was a British composer who emigrated to and taught in South Africa but the Viola Concerto dates from 1917). The second cd couples some short, orchestrated minatures by John Ireland with Goossen's Variations on 'Cadel Rousselle' and Peter Crossley-Holland's tonal, VW-inspired Symphony in D.
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.asp?cat=366&pg=6
Oh, this is a good morning for British music lovers :) :)
Hi Colin, yes I just had to beat you to it. As I have been sent loads of extra exam stuff to do I have justified (to myself) a mad splash out of the Arnell, Bate and Crossley-Holland CDs. On the subject of Holland I am off very soon to meet those two famous dutch "so-called Braga Santos experts" , Johan and Johan in Leiden on Monday as we are visiting our daughter who is "studying" there. I am sorry that you will not be there but hope that we meet on a separate occasion. My wife is taking a dim view of the prospect of a six hour ferry crossing in storm conditions :o
Jeffrey
I too have ordered these 3 cds-surprise, surprise :)
A six hour ferry crossing? Where are you going from? That seems rather a long time! I hope that it is not too uncomfortable and unpleasant!! Still, when you do finally arrive I am sure that you will be able to enjoy fine food and company :) Your hard-working and studious daughter will have prepared all manner of cultural delights for you to sample and-of course-you will enjoy meeting those Dutch musical madmen(sorry, I meant afficianados) the two Johans :) I still hope to make it to the Netherlands in November or December but that depends on my forthcoming operation :'(
Don't worry-I am sure that we can indeed arrange to meet up!
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 08:07:49 AM
I too have ordered these 3 cds-surprise, surprise :)
A six hour ferry crossing? Where are you going from? That seems rather a long time! I hope that it is not too uncomfortable and unpleasant!! Still, when you do finally arrive I am sure that you will be able to enjoy fine food and company :) Your hard-working and studious daughter will have prepared all manner of cultural delights for you to sample and-of course-you will enjoy meeting those Dutch musical madmen(sorry, I meant afficianados) the two Johans :) I still hope to make it to the Netherlands in November or December but that depends on my forthcoming operation :'(
Don't worry-I am sure that we can indeed arrange to meet up!
Harwich-Hook of Holland: six hours (or probably 12 in force 10 storm). Sorry to hear of op. Will be in touch when I get back on Wednesday and I can prepare you for your own encounter with the crazy dutchmen later in the year ;D
No surprise about the Dutton purchases ;)
All best wishes
Jeffrey
Bon voyage!
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 08:07:49 AM
and-of course-you will enjoy meeting those Dutch musical madmen(sorry, I meant afficianados) the two Johans :)
Language! $:)
QuoteI still hope to make it to the Netherlands in November or December but that depends on my forthcoming operation :'(
I hope the operation will be soon and very succesful. The polder is already preparing for your arrival. But first - Jeffrey (and his Brian-crazed spouse)!
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
Language! $:)
I hope the operation will be soon and very succesful. The polder is already preparing for your arrival. But first - Jeffrey (and his Brian-crazed spouse)!
Yes, Katy can't wait to hear Johan's six hour monologue on Havergal Brian, Wind-machines, Bantock's Omar Khayam etcetcetc ;D
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
Language! $:)
I hope the operation will be soon and very succesful. The polder is already preparing for your arrival. But first - Jeffrey (and his Brian-crazed spouse)!
18th November :( :'( :-[ ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 08:33:12 AM
18th November :( :'( :-[ ;D
I wish you well, Colin.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 25, 2008, 08:28:45 AM
Yes, Katy can't wait to hear Johan's six hour monologue on Havergal Brian, Wind-machines, Bantock's Omar Khayam etcetcetc ;D
That's why I am reading up like mad. It's important to keep the lady entertained. ;D
Quote from: vandermolen on October 25, 2008, 08:13:52 AM
the crazy dutchmen
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 08:07:49 AM
those Dutch musical madmen(sorry, I meant afficianados)
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
his Brian-crazed spouse)!
Clear indications of growing tension, ever-increasing suspense, wild expectations ...? :)
Back to Arnell and the new CD of the 1st and 6th symphonies and the Sinfonia quasi variazioni :)
Whew! Ah, um!
First thing to say is that these three works are certainly different from each other!!
The Sinfonia quasi Variazioni is the earliest work-Op. 13 written in 1941 when the composer was 24. It is a short symphony, just over 15 minutes long, and very clearly by the same composer who went on to write Symphonies Nos. 2-5. It breathes the same air, has the same sort of broad, swelling melodies, Sibelian and contemporary American symphonic influences(Copland, Barber, Harris). It is affirmative, warm-hearted, direct, imposing.
Symphony No.1 was originally called 'Chamber Symphony' but is in fact the longest work on the disc at 28 minutes in length. It was composed in 1943(again while the composer was living in America) but actually postdates Symphony No.2(originally composed in 1942 but revised in 1944). Lewis Foreman writes that it would be better subtitled the 'Classical Symphony' or 'Neo-Classical Symphony'. I can certainly see what he means! It is a delightfully clean and clear piece of writing, eloquently polished and burnished, possibly influenced by Stravinsky's Symphony in C, but without some of the obviously artful neo-classicisms of the 1920s or 1930s. A delightful work albeit rather different from the Arnell of the later symphonies some of us have come to know and love :)
The Symphony No.6 "The Anvil"(1992-94), on the other hand, is very, very different again and-at the moment, on one hearing-I really don't know what to make of it :-\ It is a short work-under 14 minutes long-and much, much more modern sounding! It open with a piano chord, followed by an anvil clash(the cd covers warns the listener not to play the cd at too loud a volume but it is really not that loud!). There are repeated quotes of 'Muss es sein' and 'Es muss sein' derived from Beethoven's last string quartet. The piano is used in a concertante role in the third section of a four section work. The symphony ends with repeated rising chords but with no resolution to them.
It is an odd work! There are very occasional passages which recall the Arnell of the 1940s and 1950s but otherwise I would never have guessed the composer. The sononities in general are just so totally different. Whether it works I cannot possibly say, yet!
Not I would suggest the CD to start an Arnell collection with! Dutton have sensibly left these works to last in their survey of the series-and what a marvellous discovery the symphonies as a whole have been :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on November 03, 2008, 07:37:15 AM
Back to Arnell and the new CD of the 1st and 6th symphonies and the Sinfonia quasi variazioni :)
Whew! Ah, um!
First thing to say is that these three works are certainly different from each other!!
The Sinfonia quasi Variazioni is the earliest work-Op. 13 written in 1941 when the composer was 24. It is a short symphony, just over 15 minutes long, and very clearly by the same composer who went on to write Symphonies Nos. 2-5. It breathes the same air, has the same sort of broad, swelling melodies, Sibelian and contemporary American symphonic influences(Copland, Barber, Harris). It is affirmative, warm-hearted, direct, imposing.
Symphony No.1 was originally called 'Chamber Symphony' but is in fact the longest work on the disc at 28 minutes in length. It was composed in 1943(again while the composer was living in America) but actually postdates Symphony No.2(originally composed in 1942 but revised in 1944). Lewis Foreman writes that it would be better subtitled the 'Classical Symphony' or 'Neo-Classical Symphony'. I can certainly see what he means! It is a delightfully clean and clear piece of writing, eloquently polished and burnished, possibly influenced by Stravinsky's Symphony in C, but without some of the obviously artful neo-classicisms of the 1920s or 1930s. A delightful work albeit rather different from the Arnell of the later symphonies some of us have come to know and love :)
The Symphony No.6 "The Anvil"(1992-94), on the other hand, is very, very different again and-at the moment, on one hearing-I really don't know what to make of it :-\ It is a short work-under 14 minutes long-and much, much more modern sounding! It open with a piano chord, followed by an anvil clash(the cd covers warns the listener not to play the cd at too loud a volume but it is really not that loud!). There are repeated quotes of 'Muss es sein' and 'Es muss sein' derived from Beethoven's last string quartet. The piano is used in a concertante role in the third section of a four section work. The symphony ends with repeated rising chords but with no resolution to them.
It is an odd work! There are very occasional passages which recall the Arnell of the 1940s and 1950s but otherwise I would never have guessed the composer. The sononities in general are just so totally different. Whether it works I cannot possibly say, yet!
Not I would suggest the CD to start an Arnell collection with! Dutton have sensibly left these works to last in their survey of the series-and what a marvellous discovery the symphonies as a whole have been :)
Thanks Colin,
I hope that my CD arrives soon. I'll let you know what I think. Your thoughtful review really makes me want to explore these works.
I enjoyed Arnell's 6th symphony "The Anvil". I agree with Colin's review. It is a strange, rather anarchic work, with much use of a percussive piano. Like Colin, i didn't quite know what to make of it but I immediately wanted to listen to it again once it finished. There are moments when you can tell it's written by the same composer as nos 3-5, but it is quite different. I was reminded of Malcolm Arnold in some places; especially his more discordant works like Symphony 6 or 7. Worthwhile. Nos 3-5 are the best though.
The Arnell Violin Concerto will shortly be released by Dutton in an interesting coupling with Thomas Pitfield's Concerto Lirico and the female composer Guirne Creith's Violin Concerto.
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7221
Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying Arnell's 6th Symphony 'The Anvil', which took a bit of getting used to at first. The last movement, with its Beethoven quotation, is especially good and rather moving.
RICHARD ARNELL DIED ON APRIL 10th. RIP to a great British composer-arguably the finest British symphonist of his generation.
Arnell would have been 92 in September. He lived long enough to have witnessed the revival-at least on disc-of his music through the recent superb efforts of Dutton. The recordings of seven of his symphonies(counting the Sinfonia con Varazioni), the Piano and (first) Violin Concertos and a number of other orchestral works and ballet music have been a revelation-big, colourful, romantic pieces full of life and energy rendered with supreme eloquence by the conductor Martin Yates. Arnell's almost total neglect in the British concert hall over the past thirty years is a musical disgrace.
(I have been on holiday in Rome and I found a notice of the death in the obituary columns of the London Times. I am shocked that to date-ten days after the death-there does not seem to have been a full Obituary published in either the Times or the Daily Telegraph(the British newspapers I read) or, presumably, in any other quality British newspaper(otherwise I would have imagined that vandermolen, at least, would have picked up on the sad news).
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 20, 2009, 05:41:54 AM
RICHARD ARNELL DIED ON APRIL 10th. RIP to a great British composer-arguably the finest British symphonist of his generation.
Arnell would have been 92 in September. He lived long enough to have witnessed the revival-at least on disc-of his music through the recent superb efforts of Dutton. The recordings of seven of his symphonies(counting the Sinfonia con Varazioni), the Piano and (first) Violin Concertos and a number of other orchestral works and ballet music have been a revelation-big, colourful, romantic pieces full of life and energy rendered with supreme eloquence by the conductor Martin Yates. Arnell's almost total neglect in the British concert hall over the past thirty years is a musical disgrace.
(I have been on holiday in Rome and I found a notice of the death in the obituary columns of the London Times. I am shocked that to date-ten days after the death-there does not seem to have been a full Obituary published in either the Times or the Daily Telegraph(the British newspapers I read) or, presumably, in any other quality British newspaper(otherwise I would have imagined that vandermolen, at least, would have picked up on the sad news).
Oh my goodness - that is sad news - notwithstanding his great age. Certainly he was the greatest living British composer as far as I am concerned. I'm glad that I sent him a fan letter when I did. Thanks for alerting us to this Colin. His symphonies 3-5, at least, should live on.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 20, 2009, 06:42:10 AM
Oh my goodness - that is sad news - notwithstanding his great age. Certainly he was the greatest living British composer as far as I am concerned. I'm glad that I sent him a fan letter when I did. Thanks for alerting us to this Colin. His symphonies 3-5, at least, should live on.
Sad news, indeed. I think I am going to listen to the Fifth later tonight.
I listened to Symphony No 3, in memoriam of Richard Arnell last night - was very moved in the circumstances.
Ha....at last an obituary of Arnell-in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/24/obituary-richard-arnell-composer
Heavens above-the man was married eight times. He also appears to have had "a fondness" for alcohol. Where have I heard that before? Searle, Leighton, Lambert, Warlock, Williamson, Arnold............. Composers often seem to have led extremely tangled personal lives.
Still....what really matters is the music :)
I posted these last few day ago my impressions about Arnell's symphonies 3-5.
I was puzzled by 3 but definitively 'heard' the 4th and 5th's message. It's a pleasing thought that an appropriate obit will be a reference to recent phonographic documents rather than journalistic ones. For once the musical world got its act together before it was too late.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 29, 2009, 06:30:10 PM
Ha....at last an obituary of Arnell-in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/24/obituary-richard-arnell-composer
Heavens above-the man was married eight times. He also appears to have had "a fondness" for alcohol. Where have I heard that before? Searle, Leighton, Lambert, Warlock, Williamson, Arnold............. Composers often seem to have led extremely tangled personal lives.
Still....what really matters is the music :)
Thanks very much Colin for the link - quite an interesting obituary.
Belatedly the Daily Telegraph has acknowledged Arnell's death-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/music-obituaries/5252799/Richard-Arnell.html
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 01, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
Belatedly the Daily Telegraph has acknowledged Arnell's death-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/music-obituaries/5252799/Richard-Arnell.html
Thanks again Colin for the link. I hope that the Times issues one in due course.
From Today's Times:
Richard Arnell: composer of Punch and the Child
(Hulton-Deutsch Collection / Corbis)
Arnell: he was, said Beecham, 'one of the best orchestrators since Berlioz'
In the 1940s and 50s, during his heyday, the music of Richard Arnell was as well known as that of his most prominent British contemporaries, among them Benjamin Frankel, Mátyás Seiber, Franz Reizenstein, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold and William Wordsworth, and enjoyed the advocacy of several distinguished conductors, including Leopold Stokowski, Bernard Herrmann and Sir Thomas Beecham. With the rise of British Modernism in the 1960s and its establishment thereafter as the lingua franca of serious composition, such music was to fall from institutional favour. But, although never of first-rate individuality, Arnell's oeuvre has in recent years — thanks to its solid craftsmanship and a number of important first recordings — enjoyed something of a revival and a cautious upward revaluation.
As it now stands, his reputation would seem to rest on six symphonies (seven if an earlier Sinfonia Quasi Variazioni is included in the canon), six string quartets, sundry concertos, the "symphonic portrait" Lord Byron, and several ballets, notably Punch and the Child, which was staged in New York by George Balanchine and soon after its premiere in 1947 recorded by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra under Beecham, who was perhaps the staunchest of his champions.
Beecham, whom he had first met in 1941 through Virgil Thomson, once described Arnell as "one of the best orchestrators since Berlioz". During the course of the association, which lasted until the conductor's death in 1961, he performed no fewer than eight of Arnell's pieces, beginning with the Sinfonia Quasi Variazione at Carnegie Hall in 1942. Later Arnell made good the debt of gratitude by writing an Ode to Beecham to mark the RPO's 40th anniversary in 1986.
Arnell has also been dubbed the English Rachmaninov, an epithet that recognises not only his penchant for orchestral colour but also an essential musical conservatism epitomised by his fondness for richly harmonised and upward-thrusting romantic melody tempered, however, by a typically British emotional reticence.
Arnell wrote prolifically, perhaps too prolifically for reflection and renewal. The First Symphony dates from 1943, the last from 1994, yet the overall style, at times redolent of Aaron Copland and Roy Harris in its New Deal optimism, remains largely unmodified. Great claims, for instance, have been made for the Fifth Symphony (1956-57), which is now available for closer scrutiny thanks to recent CD releases by Dutton of all six symphonies and various other works. Its approachability is beyond question. Whether it endures, only time will tell.
Born in Hampstead towards the end of the First World War, Richard Anthony Sayer Arnell was an only child whose grandfather had been a violinist in the Hastings Municipal Orchestra and whose builder father was the brains behind the Kingsway and Aldwych development of 1905. His mother was a keen amateur pianist and he had his first piano lessons with his governess. At University College School he made 16mm films and formed a dance band. At the Royal College of Music he studied composition with John Ireland and piano with John Dykes. In his final year he won the Ernest Farrar Prize and enjoyed a student performance of a now withdrawn violin concerto. When war broke out in 1939 the newly married father found himself stranded in New York while attending the World Fair. He stayed on, initially on the advice of the British Consulate, but in the event he remained in the United States until 1947, with a steadily growing reputation and a job as music consultant to the BBC's North American Service.
It was a busy time for the emergent composer. Following his op.1, a set of orchestral variations broadcast by the New York radio station WQXR, Arnell managed to complete nearly a quarter of an oeuvre which would reach upward of about 200 compositions, including four symphonies, a piano concerto championed by Moura Lympany, The War God, a setting of a text by Stephen Spender to celebrate the opening of the United Nations, The Land (the first of many film scores) and a Ceremonial and Flourish for brass to mark the occasion of Sir Winston Churchill's visit to Columbia University in 1946.
And although there were disappointments — the planned premiere by Beecham of the Second Symphony in 1944 failed to materialise, resulting in its postponement for nearly 50 years — his music was in general well received, catching as it did the mood of the times and preparing him well for the second Elizabethan age, with its Festival of Britain optimism, to which he contributed on his return to the United Kingdom in 1947. He continued to make transatlantic visits after his repatriation, principally during the late 1960s as a Fulbright visiting lecturer.
Soon after Arnell's return to England, he became a professor of composition at Trinity College, London, and he remained there until the 1980s. He also directed courses in film music, eventually publishing a book on the subject, The Technique of Film Music, and worked as music consultant to the London International Film School. From 1961 to 1964 he edited Composer magazine and later served as chairman and vice-president of the Composers' Guild.
Arnell's symphonies were ideally suited to the Cheltenham Festival of the 1950s. The most significant of his performances there was probably of the Third Symphony, dedicated "to the political courage of the British people" and already broadcast by the BBC Northern Symphony under Norman Del Mar in 1952. It was publically premiered at Cheltenham a year later by the Hallé Orchestra under Sir John Barbirolli, who excised 20 minutes from the 65-minute score.
From the 1960s onwards Arnell's music began to fall from favour. And although he continued to compose as prolifically as ever — one of his last pieces, written in his late eighties, was an Ode for Mandela — and was taken up by prominent British musicians such as Sir Charles Groves, John Ogden, Edward Downes and Richard Hickox, he was never to rekindle the success of the Beecham years.
He was married eight times. Four children survive him.
Richard Arnell, composer, was born on September 15, 1917. He died on April 10, 2009, aged 91
I was about to post the link ;D
Not, I think, written by a huge enthusiast!
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 16, 2009, 05:20:23 AM
I was about to post the link ;D
Not, I think, written by a huge enthusiast!
Yes, rather damned with faint praise I think.
Whoever wrote The Times obituary is also guilty of at best carelessness and at worst downright ignorance >:(
He names "Benjamin Frankel, Matyas Seiber, Franz Reizenstein, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold and William Wordsworth" as Arnell's "most prominent British contemporaries".
This is just rubbish! Seiber, Reizenstein and Wordsworth have never been "prominent" British composers and to suggest that their music has ever been "well known" is nonsense.
Arnell's contemporaries-if by that word we might include those composers born within five years either side of 1917-would include
Daniel Jones(1912), Benjamin Britten(1913), George Lloyd(1913), Humphrey Searle(1915), John Gardner(1917), Peter Racine Fricker(1920), Robert Simpson(1921), Iain Hamilton(1922) and...yes..Sir Malcolm Arnold(1921). They would not include William Alwyn(1905) or Benjamin Frankel(1906).
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 16, 2009, 06:21:29 PM
Whoever wrote The Times obituary is also guilty of at best carelessness and at worst downright ignorance >:(
He names "Benjamin Frankel, Matyas Seiber, Franz Reizenstein, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold and William Wordsworth" as Arnell's "most prominent British contemporaries".
This is just rubbish! Seiber, Reizenstein and Wordsworth have never been "prominent" British composers and to suggest that their music has ever been "well known" is nonsense.
Arnell's contemporaries-if by that word we might include those composers born within five years either side of 1917-would include
Daniel Jones(1912), Benjamin Britten(1913), George Lloyd(1913), Humphrey Searle(1915), John Gardner(1917), Peter Racine Fricker(1920), Robert Simpson(1921), Iain Hamilton(1922) and...yes..Sir Malcolm Arnold(1921). They would not include William Alwyn(1905) or Benjamin Frankel(1906).
Why don't you write in Colin.
Dundonnell, interesting to see your reviews of Arnell here. I got hold of his Third symphony and Punch and the child not so long ago but wasn't so much taken by these works. The symphony is reminiscent of the way Bax's material moves but without the intuitive insight and is just rather longwinded and unoriginal, asking for my patience rather than providing interest in the detail, as English music typically does. Music I felt hard to care about. I'd certainly try another work though.
Quote from: Sean on June 19, 2009, 05:28:43 AM
Dundonnell, interesting to see your reviews of Arnell here. I got hold of his Third symphony and Punch and the child not so long ago but wasn't so much taken by these works. The symphony is reminiscent of the way Bax's material moves but without the intuitive insight and is just rather longwinded and unoriginal, asking for my patience rather than providing interest in the detail, as English music typically does. Music I felt hard to care about. I'd certainly try another work though.
I'm not Dundonnell but I'd recommend you try Symphony 4 and 5 (on the same CD).
Well, here is an interesting new CD. In fact the best items are Stanley Bate's Third Symphony and I loved Erik Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' in which the 'Inferno' sequence conveys a great sense of looming catastrophe (I always relate to this >:D) but the 'Paradise' sequence offers a movingly poetic contrast. I have only listened to the Bate work once but I shall be returning to it with pleasure. It did not grab me as immediately as the wonderful (IMHO) Viola Concerto but I'm sure it will grow on me. Arnell's 'Black Mountains' (as in USA) is very short but a dramatically atmospheric work - this is a fascinating CD.
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7239
Thanks for this, Jeffrey. Looks like a most interesting - and unusual - program. Dutton does it again !
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on November 19, 2009, 06:34:33 PM
Thanks for this, Jeffrey. Looks like a most interesting - and unusual - program. Dutton does it again !
It is a GREAT CD Andre. The Bate Symphony No 3 and Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' are not to be missed.
This guy writes some seriously awesome melodies. I find him to be more optimistic than a lot of his British colleagues (not necessarily a bad/good thing).
Anyone know where I can but or download mp3 files files of Stanley Bate's music?
The more I listen to this guy the more I like him. Oh, and that Stanley Bate symphony is indeed awesome.
His symphonies are well-discussed, but based on the "world premiere recordings" note, Arnell's string quartets seem to be rather lesser-known.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/720/111my.gif) (http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7268)
I wonder how they sound? The Keller comment in the notes is interesting - in general that guy knew what he was talking about.
I've just joined after reading the entire thread about Arnell. I have been bowled over by him in the past year and I'm hoping with so much more music now released from Dutton we can get a bit more discussion going.
I must say the symphony I have listened to most often is the 4th, particularly the first movt. I am filled with emotion every time the brass start playing those rising figures about 2 thirds of the way through. I remember when I first heard it I played the first movt. for a week over and over before moving on. Imagine how thrilled I was to discover such a lyrical and enigmatic slow movt.
Anyway, I have just got hold of the Unnumbered Symphonies disc which hasn't been mentioned here and thought I'd share my thoughts so far.
I've been lsitening to the Dagenham Symphony and the Sinfonia mainly and am enjoying both. In their why they both add something new to my understanding of Arnell. The Dagenham is full of such wonderfully orchestrated ideas and as I'm always interested in structural devices I love the way the piano part seems to be used to comment on the journey taken by the orchestra rather than joining in. I'm also fascinated by the final march. I'm always thrilled to see how composers use march within a larger structure as I great fan of Brian. Here we get a wonderfully original take on the age old idea. Each time you think you're in for a trio like tune Arnell pulls the rug from under you with the flick on harmony. Great stuff.
Hope there's still people out there to renew this thread. There's lots to talk about. The Chamber music, Yates' completion of the 7th.
Anyone?
Quote from: Dashiell2007 on July 13, 2013, 11:19:29 AM
I've just joined after reading the entire thread about Arnell. I have been bowled over by him in the past year and I'm hoping with so much more music now released from Dutton we can get a bit more discussion going.
I must say the symphony I have listened to most often is the 4th, particularly the first movt. I am filled with emotion every time the brass start playing those rising figures about 2 thirds of the way through. I remember when I first heard it I played the first movt. for a week over and over before moving on. Imagine how thrilled I was to discover such a lyrical and enigmatic slow movt.
Anyway, I have just got hold of the Unnumbered Symphonies disc which hasn't been mentioned here and thought I'd share my thoughts so far.
I've been lsitening to the Dagenham Symphony and the Sinfonia mainly and am enjoying both. In their why they both add something new to my understanding of Arnell. The Dagenham is full of such wonderfully orchestrated ideas and as I'm always interested in structural devices I love the way the piano part seems to be used to comment on the journey taken by the orchestra rather than joining in. I'm also fascinated by the final march. I'm always thrilled to see how composers use march within a larger structure as I great fan of Brian. Here we get a wonderfully original take on the age old idea. Each time you think you're in for a trio like tune Arnell pulls the rug from under you with the flick on harmony. Great stuff.
Hope there's still people out there to renew this thread. There's lots to talk about. The Chamber music, Yates' completion of the 7th.
Anyone?
Dashiell2007,
Firstly welcome to the forum!
And thanks for reviving this thread. I am a great admirer of this composer. Obtaining the epic Symphony 3 was a revelation to me and I enjoyed all the subsequent Dutton releases of the symphonies. Apart from No 3 I also love No 5 - especially when the 'big tune' returns towards the end - a wonderful movement. I haven't got my head round the Symphony No 7 yes, but I liked the CD with symphonies 1 and 6 on. No 3 would have been a great work for the Proms, but this is wishful thinking. At least Arnell lived long enough to see Martin Yates record his earlier symphonies. I have to say that I did not make much of the 'Dagenham Symphony' disc but the chamber music I found very enjoyable but must listen to it again, so that my comments can be better informed.
Anyway, I hope that you enjoy your membership of this forum as much as I have.
I know what you mean about the Dagenham disc. I was disappointed the first time I listened but after repeated listenings it began to grow on my. Particularly the Sinfonia which I find I listen to a great deal.
As for the Symphony 1 and 6 disc. I loved the 6th from the moment I heard it but still can't quite get into the 1st.
I'm going to listen to the 3rd for I few days not in order to post a more detailed account of my thoughts.
Thanks for the welcome. I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts on some lesser known composers. At present I am exploring Arnell, David Matthews, Alan Bush, Armstrong Gibbs, Grace Williams & George Lloyd.
Cheers!
Quote from: Dashiell2007 on July 14, 2013, 03:05:52 AM
I know what you mean about the Dagenham disc. I was disappointed the first time I listened but after repeated listenings it began to grow on my. Particularly the Sinfonia which I find I listen to a great deal.
As for the Symphony 1 and 6 disc. I loved the 6th from the moment I heard it but still can't quite get into the 1st.
I'm going to listen to the 3rd for I few days not in order to post a more detailed account of my thoughts.
Thanks for the welcome. I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts on some lesser known composers. At present I am exploring Arnell, David Matthews, Alan Bush, Armstrong Gibbs, Grace Williams & George Lloyd.
Cheers!
Yes, I prefer Arnell's 6th too. I like all the composers you list. Especially Matthews Symphony 6, Bush No 2, Armstrong Gibbs 'Westmoreland', Williams Symphony 2 and Lloyd Nos 4,7,8 and 11.
Cheers!
You just listed my favourite symphonies by all those composers. No kidding.
Particularly Armstrong Gibbs 3rd. And the Bush 2nd is particularly a given as I
was born and live in Nottinghamshire.
Walter Gaze Cooper (1895-1981),prolific composer,founder and conductor of the Nottingham Symphony Orchestra is another one. His Fourth Symphony 'The West Wind' with a humming chorus,sounds particularly intriguing;as do all his eight extant symphonies,Concertos & other works. His music was broadcast many years ago. The poor sound & quality of some of the performances at the AMF Forum aren't much help! One for an enterprising small cd label to unearth. It would be a change from more York Bowen. (Cameo Classics have recorded one or two pieces).
Of course,he may be crap? But it all sounds rather intriguing!
Interesting name too! Is it real,or assumed,like 'Havergal' (Brian)? And here's the big man at the keyboard with some of his pupils!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img40/3797/3xss.jpg)
Quote from: Dashiell2007 on July 14, 2013, 04:45:42 AM
You just listed my favourite symphonies by all those composers. No kidding.
Particularly Armstrong Gibbs 3rd. And the Bush 2nd is particularly a given as I
was born and live in Nottinghamshire.
I love the inspiriting end of the Bush Symphony 2.
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 14, 2013, 05:23:46 AM
Walter Gaze Cooper (1895-1981),prolific composer,founder and conductor of the Nottingham Symphony Orchestra is another one. His Fourth Symphony 'The West Wind' with a humming chorus,sounds particularly intriguing;as do all his eight extant symphonies,Concertos & other works. His music was broadcast many years ago. The poor sound & quality of some of the performances at the AMF Forum aren't much help! One for an enterprising small cd label to unearth. It would be a change from more York Bowen. (Cameo Classics have recorded one or two pieces).
Of course,he may be crap? But it all sounds rather intriguing!
Interesting name too! Is it real,or assumed,like 'Havergal' (Brian)? And here's the big man at the keyboard with some of his pupils!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img40/3797/3xss.jpg)
I have heard of Gaze Cooper and it sounds intriguing and probably more interesting than York Bowen. Dorothy Howell's 'Lamia' was a fine discovery for me on Cameo Classics.
Dashiell2007 & vandermolen
Great to read the enthusiasm for those mid-century symphonic figures while the continentals, though not the Russians were going off in their crazy directions. I've also explored many of those composers and works but Arnold's Third symphony is really not a strong work, meandering and looking for the next melodic-orchestral tangle rather than much overall sense of where the music is supposed to be going. I took it to be pretty congested and scatterbrained.
His orchestral Punch and the child is more convincing.
Quote from: Sean on July 15, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
Dashiell2007 & vandermolen
Great to read the enthusiasm for those mid-century symphonic figures while the continentals, though not the Russians were going off in their crazy directions. I've also explored many of those composers and works but Arnold's Third symphony is really not a strong work, meandering and looking for the next melodic-orchestral tangle rather than much overall sense of where the music is supposed to be going. I took it to be pretty congested and scatterbrained.
His orchestral Punch and the child is more convincing.
Presume you mean Arnell rather than Arnold (whose Third Symphony I like too!) I tend to respond to works which move me emotionally, which is certainly the case in Arnell's symphonies 3 and 5 - yes, they can be a bit rambling and perhaps the structure could be tighter in places, but in the end that is what matters to me. For example I prefer the more rambling 1913 version of 'A London Symphony' by Vaughan Williams than the more tightly structured 1936 version (presumably influenced by the example of Sibelius). VW excised the most poetic moment in the Symphony (in my view) just before the end; so what it gained in concision did not, for me, compensate for the removal of moments of intense poetic expression.
I have to say that I found Arnell 3 rambling on first hearing but it did move me emotionally. Particularly the end of the 2nd 3rd and 6th movt. But on repeated hearings I find that the powerful emotion of the end of these movts comes from the developmental journey they take. I look to listen to music which shows a commanding sense of developmental techniques and for me there is nothing better than Arnell 3 for this. The end of the second movt which always gives me chills comes around from the final brass calls which have developed out of the chorle like 2nd subject but were not in the same form when the subject first appeared. Again, for me it is listening to the journey to this point that moves me.
I'm going to stop now as I'm planning to post about my thoughts about this great symphony when I have listened to it a few more times.
Cheers!
Sure thing Dashiell.
And my regrets for my other post.
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 01, 2007, 06:27:07 AM
I have just joined this forum having, quite accidentally, discovered its existence whilst doing a Google search for references to Arnell!
I had no idea that Dutton had just released Symphonies Nos.4 and 5. Needless to say I have immediately ordered the CD!
I must confess to being bowled over by the energy and elan of the Piano Concerto and emailed the soloist, David Owen Norris, to congratulate him on rescuing such a refreshing work.
I had been waiting with keen anticipation for Toccata to release the (Arizona) Musica Viva Orchestra's recordings of the Arnell symphonies. Does anyone know what happened to this plan? Anyway, Dutton seem to have stolen a march on any other companies by using a self-confessed devotee in Martin Yates and the RSNO to record these long-overdue works and I, for one, am extremely grateful to that most enterprising company! (Who else would have recently issued the Bainton 2nd and Boughton 1st? Well, I suppose, at one time Chandos might have considered it.)
Delighted to have found this forum! I am afraid that I may use it to punt a number of my favourite under-rated composers! I have people like Peter Racine Fricker, William Wordsworth, Arnold Cooke, Daniel Jones, Alun Hoddinott in mind amongst English composers and the-sadly under-recorded-Hilding Rosenberg amongst others. That however will be for future posts!
Look forward to contributing!
Wow! Was this really Dundonnell's first post?!! ??? ;D I miss his contributions;but he's still posting at the Art Music Forum.
I ordered these s/h copies of these two Dutton cds of Arnell's Ballet scores,a few days ago. I felt it was time I heard his
Punch and the Child,which I have enjoyed very much in the Beecham recording,in stereo. I also have a Suite from
The Great Detective in a fifties recording,conducted by the composer,on the emi cd,
The Composer Conducts. This cd includes another Ballet,
The Angels.
(http://i.imgur.com/biI5xdT.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lurK6HA.jpg)
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 11, 2017, 08:20:29 AM
Wow! Was this really Dundonnell's first post?!! ??? ;D I miss his contributions;but he's still posting at the Art Music Forum.
I ordered these s/h copies of these two Dutton cds of Arnell's Ballet scores,a few days ago. I felt it was time I heard his Punch and the Child,which I have enjoyed very much in the Beecham recording,in stereo. I also have a Suite from The Great Detective in a fifties recording,conducted by the composer,on the emi cd,The Composer Conducts. This cd includes another Ballet,The Angels.
(http://i.imgur.com/biI5xdT.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lurK6HA.jpg)
These are thoroughly entertaining works although it is to the symphonies, especially 3,4 and 5 that I keep returning as well as the fine CD of chamber music on Dutton.
I've resisted the Dutton cd's of Arnell,so far. I've got to pay boring things like bills,and I'm running out of room,really;so certain composers are out of bounds! :( I decided to buy these though,as I've had the ancient old excerpts for a long time;and I decided I really would like to hear them in stereo sound. If these go down well;I probably won't be able to resist the symphonies you mention at some future date. I have heard his Piano Concerto. I taped it off the radio in the mid 90's,and recall being rather impressed.
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 12, 2017, 08:28:32 AM
I've resisted the Dutton cd's of Arnell,so far. I've got to pay boring things like bills,and I'm running out of room,really;so certain composers are out of bounds! :( I decided to buy these though,as I've had the ancient old excerpts for a long time;and I decided I really would like to hear them in stereo sound. If these go down well;I probably won't be able to resist the symphonies you mention at some future date. I have heard his Piano Concerto. I taped it off the radio in the mid 90's,and recall being rather impressed.
The Piano Concerto is very good I agree.
Actually,Punch and the Child are still in the post. Let's hope Mr Punch isn't delayed too long!! I listened to the cd of The Great Detective and The Angels. I rather like some of those British Ballet scores from that period. Berner's The Triumph of Neptune,Lambert's Romeo and Juliet,Horoscope,Tiresias and Pomona,Checkmate by Bliss,Miracle in the Gorbals;and,of course,Punch and the Child,which I knew,like most people,from the Beecham recording and,of course, The Great Detective by Arnell. The latter composer was,of course,the one most neglected,in terms of recording,until Dutton stepped in. Punch and the Child was the score I liked best;but as a seasoned cd collector,I couldn't just have one of the Ballet music cds,and not the other,could I?!!. Particularly,when The Great Detective cd has such colourful artwork!
The most obvious comparison for this music,is of course,Prokofiev. A bit of Stravinsky,perhaps? Anyway,it's all very propulsive and full of energy. Enjoyable listening. The Angels strikes me as the finest of the two scores, having some,genuinely, powerful moments. According to the booklet;while they were recording it,the engineers jokingly referred to it Arnell's Symphony No 5 ½. I think the only criticism I have of this music,is that it lacks what I would regard as genuinely memorable tunes and identifiable themes. I could also say the same thing about some of the music of Lambert. Bliss (and Berner's The Triumph of Neptune) on the other hand,all have some catchy tunes,that you can immediately identify with. Miracle in the Gorbals has one particular number,which always sets my feet tapping. It's my favourite bit! Prokofiev? Well,what can I say? He is recognised,the world over,as a great composer;so I will be kind and spare Arnell the comparison? (Although,I probably just did!). Punch and the Child is,on the other hand,quite a tuneful score,and not too long!! Those criticisms aside,I am attracted to the atmosphere,and flavour,if you like,of some of these Ballet scores,from that period. So the fact that I'm not going to be humming The Great Detective or The Angels over the kitchen wash basin,or whistling them down the street,as I walk,isn't really a big problem for me. I do have a bit of a problem with ballet music,anyway! Ballet music is composed for a ballet. It written to accompany dancing on stage;and I do think that listening to a ballet score on cd,is a bit like listening to a movie soundtrack. This is why I,generally,prefer suites. And let's face it,this is why composers extract music from ballets,and create suites;so as to make them more enoyable and palatable to an audience bereft of the action on stage. This is certainly why I prefer a suite or ballet;and generally avoid cd's of movie scores. Gripes aside,these are very interesting,and enjoyable releases. They certainly haven't wasted my time! I will wait until the other cd arrives;but the long absence of recordings of Arnell,except in ancient old recordings does seem like a big jigsaw with an important piece missing. If emi hadn't crashed like they did,I would like to think that they would have gone on to add an Arnell cd to their 'British Composers' catalogue. Thank goodness for Dutton,eh?
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 13, 2017, 04:48:12 AM
Actually,Punch and the Child are still in the post. Let's hope Mr Punch isn't delayed too long!! I listened to the cd of The Great Detective and The Angels. I rather like some of those British Ballet scores from that period. Berner's The Triumph of Neptune,Lambert's Romeo and Juliet,Horoscope,Tiresias and Pomona,Checkmate by Bliss,Miracle in the Gorbals;and,of course,Punch and the Child,which I knew,like most people,from the Beecham recording and,of course, The Great Detective by Arnell. The latter composer was,of course,the one most neglected,in terms of recording,until Dutton stepped in. Punch and the Child was the score I liked best;but as a seasoned cd collector,I couldn't just have one of the Ballet music cds,and not the other,could I?!!. Particularly,when The Great Detective cd has such colourful artwork!
The most obvious comparison for this music,is of course,Prokofiev. A bit of Stravinsky,perhaps? Anyway,it's all very propulsive and full of energy. Enjoyable listening. The Angels strikes me as the finest of the two scores, having some,genuinely, powerful moments. According to the booklet;while they were recording it,the engineers jokingly referred to it Arnell's Symphony No 5 ½. I think the only criticism I have of this music,is that it lacks what I would regard as genuinely memorable tunes and identifiable themes. I could also say the same thing about some of the music of Lambert. Bliss (and Berner's The Triumph of Neptune) on the other hand,all have some catchy tunes,that you can immediately identify with. Miracle in the Gorbals has one particular number,which always sets my feet tapping. It's my favourite bit! Prokofiev? Well,what can I say? He is recognised,the world over,as a great composer;so I will be kind and spare Arnell the comparison? (Although,I probably just did!). Punch and the Child is,on the other hand,quite a tuneful score,and not too long!! Those criticisms aside,I am attracted to the atmosphere,and flavour,if you like,of some of these Ballet scores,from that period. So the fact that I'm not going to be humming The Great Detective or The Angels over the kitchen wash basin,or whistling them down the street,as I walk,isn't really a big problem for me. I do have a bit of a problem with ballet music,anyway! Ballet music is composed for a ballet. It written to accompany dancing on stage;and I do think that listening to a ballet score on cd,is a bit like listening to a movie soundtrack. This is why I,generally,prefer suites. And let's face it,this is why composers extract music from ballets,and create suites;so as to make them more enoyable and palatable to an audience bereft of the action on stage. This is certainly why I prefer a suite or ballet;and generally avoid cd's of movie scores. Gripes aside,these are very interesting,and enjoyable releases. They certainly haven't wasted my time! I will wait until the other cd arrives;but the long absence of recordings of Arnell,except in ancient old recordings does seem like a big jigsaw with an important piece missing. If emi hadn't crashed like they did,I would like to think that they would have gone on to add an Arnell cd to their 'British Composers' catalogue. Thank goodness for Dutton,eh?
And, once again, thank you cilgwyn. I have these CDs as I loved Arnel's symphonies so much but have hardly listened to them - your posting has encouraged me to do so.
I have listened to the two cd's of ballet scores by Arnell,several times,now. I have been enjoyed all of them. I find these impressive scores,full of invention,and contrary to what I said in a previous post;full of good tunes. In fact,I could probably whistle tunes from The Great Detective,over the kitchen sink! Arnell has his own soundworld,and if you like Bliss,Berners and Lambert,I think you would probably like these. Yet,Arnell has his own soundworld. I think Bliss is probably the closest British comparison. But Arnell,doesn't really sound like Bliss. The music is full of energy,and there is a cartoonish humour in The Great Detective,which I really enjoyed. Harlequin in April is a beautiful and touching score. The Angels has some very powerful music;and the Concerto Capriccioso is another lovely score. All in all,two of the most enjoyable cd's of music I have heard in the last few months. After listening to all of this,it does make me wonder why a composer like Arnell should have been so neglected. Bliss,Berners and Lambert,may not be heard in the concert halls. Their ballet music may not have been danced to,for a long time(more's the pity!) but at least they had some of their music available in recorded form. That said,major scores by Lambert had to wait until Hyperion stepped in. You would think emi would have got around to recording an Arnell Lp,or cd. Perhaps they would have,if the big labels hadn't hit the rocks,in the way they did? It's also a pity that some of these score's aren't danced to,anymore? I can remember seeing Checkmate on the tv!! The emi cd,The Composer conducts,includes an entertaining still from a production of The Great Detective. My late mother loved ballet music,and I'm sure some of these scores would have 'rung a bell',even if she didn't know the actual composer by name? When I go to stay with my father next I will have a look through her old ballet magazines,which contain allot of reviews,and stills,from ballet music like this. Also,some contemporary record reviews. I think there is a good chance there will be something about Arnell there. Maybe,I can reproduce something here? The ballet music from the movie,The Red Shoes,by Brian Easdale,is another wonderful score. (He wrote some concert music that might be worth rediscovery,too?)
By the way. Here are some old Lp's,with the Beecham recording of Punch and the Child,on them. A comical entry,on the left! ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/CRaIcQQ.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4FeZeB4.jpg)
What a nostalgia trip to see that CBS LP cover again!
That would have been an entertaining Lp! I remember you used to get Lp's with Lambert's Horoscope and Holst's The Perfect Fool. Often very old recordings. I didn't really pay so much attention to detail like that when I was young. I just played the Lp;and avidly read the back,of course! I didn't worry about recording dates.
I enjoyed those Lp's of Arnell's music very much I do like that period. Bliss,Lambert,Berner's (and Arnell,now! :)) Allot of it influenced,by French and Russian music from that period. Albeit,with a flavour of it's own. It will be interesting to see how long I can resist those Arnell symphonies! ::) ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 15, 2017, 09:53:38 AM
That would have been an entertaining Lp! I remember you used to get Lp's with Lambert's Horoscope and Holst's The Perfect Fool. Often very old recordings. I didn't really pay so much attention to detail like that when I was young. I just played the Lp;and avidly read the back,of course! I didn't worry about recording dates.
I enjoyed those Lp's of Arnell's music very much I do like that period. Bliss,Lambert,Berner's (and Arnell,now! :)) Allot of it influenced,by French and Russian music from that period. Albeit,with a flavour of it's own. It will be interesting to see how long I can resist those Arnell symphonies! ::) ;D
You MUST hear Symphony 3 cilgwyn.
>:D
Well,I've passed the first test,haven't I? If I like the ballet music on those two cds,I'll presumably respond positively to an Arnell Symphony?
Quote from: vandermolen on August 15, 2017, 11:35:04 AMYou MUST hear Symphony 3 cilgwyn. >:D
Yes, why not try the
Third, written in New York in during the war (it sounds not completely unlike the David Diamond symphonies from the same years). As Bob Barnett wrote when the Dutton recording was released: 'The Third really is a most impressive work of epic symphonic weight, circumstance and moment. If you doubt me try the last five minutes of the finale.' :)
Quote from: Christo on August 15, 2017, 04:03:20 PM
Yes, why not try the Third, written in New York in during the war (it sounds not completely unlike the David Diamond symphonies from the same years). As Bob Barnett wrote when the Dutton recording was released: 'The Third really is a most impressive work of epic symphonic weight, circumstance and moment. If you doubt me try the last five minutes of the finale.' :)
+1
Then go on to symphonies 4 and 5. They are all good but I think that those ones are best. Arnell's mother was killed in the Blitz on London and I suspect that this influenced his Third Symphony. No.5 I find very moving, especially based on the return of 'the big tune' at the end - based on a popular song that his father used to sing.
I've seen some mixed opinions on Arnell's symphonies in reviews I've read. Also some mixed opinions on Amazon,including exchanges with someone by the name of Jeffrey! ??? ;D This has put me off in the past......and been an excuse to save some money! ;D (Now I wish I'd kept my cassette copy of the Piano Concerto!!) Judging by the ballet music I've heard on those two cds,Arnell does have his own sound. Also,The Angels. I can see why the engineers joked about it being his Symphony No 5 1⁄2. It certainly does have a symphonic feel to it. I should point out that,I don't just listen to what any reviewer tells me. I use reviews as a guide. Allot of mixed opinions,or a number of reviews that all seem to share a certain point,for instance. In the case of Arnell,allot of the criticism seems to centre around Arnell having lots of good ideas,but not being so good on structure. One symphony I have been able to listen to,is the Second. I put this on a cd-r with Benjamin's sole effort in the genre. Another one vandermolen repeatedly ::) ;D recommends! While the Benjamin knocked my proverbial socks off,especially that blockbuster,cinematic finale that seems to go on and on,pulling out every stop in the book......one of those pieces of music you want to conduct;the "Rufus" had me reaching for the "off" button! Admittedly,that isn't generally regarded (it seems) as the best one;but it didn't help. The bits of The Fifth I have heard on Youtube have been more encouraging. I think I will try there first!! This time I will listen to the whole work. Incidentally. Why is it nicknamed "The Gorilla"?!!!
Regarding,the Benjamin. Now,I DO like that one. It's got a great tune for a start. And that finale? Is that exciting or what?!! I had my proverbial toothbrush out!! ??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 16, 2017, 01:36:01 AM
I've seen some mixed opinions on Arnell's symphonies in reviews I've read. Also some mixed opinions on Amazon,including exchanges with someone by the name of Jeffrey! ??? ;D This has put me off in the past......and been an excuse to save some money! ;D (Now I wish I'd kept my cassette copy of the Piano Concerto!!) Judging by the ballet music I've heard on those two cds,Arnell does have his own sound. Also,The Angels. I can see why the engineers joked about it being his Symphony No 5 1⁄2. It certainly does have a symphonic feel to it. I should point out that,I don't just listen to what any reviewer tells me. I use reviews as a guide. Allot of mixed opinions,or a number of reviews that all seem to share a certain point,for instance. In the case of Arnell,allot of the criticism seems to centre around Arnell having lots of good ideas,but not being so good on structure. One symphony I have been able to listen to,is the Second. I put this on a cd-r with Benjamin's sole effort in the genre. Another one vandermolen repeatedly ::) ;D recommends! While the Benjamin knocked my proverbial socks off,especially that blockbuster,cinematic finale that seems to go on and on,pulling out every stop in the book......one of those pieces of music you want to conduct;the "Rufus" had me reaching for the "off" button! Admittedly,that isn't generally regarded (it seems) as the best one;but it didn't help. The bits of The Fifth I have heard on Youtube have been more encouraging. I think I will try there first!! This time I will listen to the whole work. Incidentally. Why is it nicknamed "The Gorilla"?!!!
Regarding,the Benjamin. Now,I DO like that one. It's got a great tune for a start. And that finale? Is that exciting or what?!! I had my proverbial toothbrush out!! ??? ;D
Yes, those reviews from Jeffrey are not to be trusted - he's clearly a nutter. 8)
That Arthur Benjamin Symphony is very fine and I have both the Lyrita and Marco Polo recordings. The Lyrita is more epic but the Marco Polo has an interesting coupling, not featured on the Lyrita recording ('Ballade' I think but might have got that wrong).
Then you need to discover symphonies 3 and 4 by Stanley Bate if you don't know them already - can't remember if we discussed them before. Christo is an admirer too.
I'm sure I will get to the Arnell symphonies,eventually! ::) ;D I've just bought a couple more Arnold cd's.They are recordings you listed,in an earlier post (on the Arnold thread) as your own first choice (for each symphony).A clue! I bought a cd of No1,a cd of 1 & 5,a cd of No 3 and a cd of No 4. All will be revealed soon!! :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 16, 2017, 11:16:05 AM
I'm sure I will get to the Arnell symphonies,eventually! ::) ;D I've just bought a couple more Arnold cd's.They are recordings you listed,in an earlier post (on the Arnold thread) as your own first choice (for each symphony).A clue! I bought a cd of No1,a cd of 1 & 5,a cd of No 3 and a cd of No 4. All will be revealed soon!! :)
Excellent!
Quote from: vandermolen on August 16, 2017, 11:01:21 AMThen you need to discover symphonies 3 and 4 by Stanley Bate if you don't know them already - can't remember if we discussed them before. Christo is an admirer too.
Absolutely, Bate 3 and 4 are among the best symphonies that I know
überhaupt ;) - more concentrated and exciting than even Arnell, the Third is comparable to the Walton 1 in that respect.
Revisiting Arnell's numbered symphonies over the last few days prompts me to rank them in my order of preference. I will probably need to revise once I've re-poked the Dagenham, Sinfonia (Symphony 0?), the Sinfonia quasi variazioni, and The Angels (it was a symphony, really), and is only a snapshot in time, but anyway...
5, 3, 6, 2, 4, 1, 7
Low numbers don't reflect a lack of appreciation, merely a necessity to place them somewhere 😁. I actually think Arnell is far too underrated (how often do one of us on the forum write this about a composer?), as for me the cycle is essential for any Anglophile collector. 5 is only marginally ahead of 3, and the next three are almost equals, with Sardis making a fine case to bump higher the more I hear it.
Just my few pennies worth.
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 08, 2022, 04:52:07 AM
Revisiting Arnell's numbered symphonies over the last few days prompts me to rank them in my order of preference. I will probably need to revise once I've re-poked the Dagenham, Sinfonia (Symphony 0?), the Sinfonia quasi variazioni, and The Angels (it was a symphony, really), and is only a snapshot in time, but anyway...
5, 3, 6, 2, 4, 1, 7
Low numbers don't reflect a lack of appreciation, merely a necessity to place them somewhere 😁. I actually think Arnell is far too underrated (how often do one of us on the forum write this about a composer?), as for me the cycle is essential for any Anglophile collector. 5 is only marginally ahead of 3, and the next three are almost equals, with Sardis making a fine case to bump higher the more I hear it.
Just my few pennies worth.
Ouch - 5 years since the last post on the Arnell thread! You are quite right he is a fine composer and this Duttin cycle does him proud. I used to work with Martin Yates years ago when he conducted musical theatre tours. He's a very fine musician and excellent composer/arranger so no surprise these sound so good......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 08, 2022, 10:44:10 AM
Ouch - 5 years since the last post on the Arnell thread! You are quite right he is a fine composer and this Duttin cycle does him proud. I used to work with Martin Yates years ago when he conducted musical theatre tours. He's a very fine musician and excellent composer/arranger so no surprise these sound so good......
Five years is far too long, particularly considering there are several GMGers with a real appreciation for his work. The WAYLT thread is convenient, I guess.
Must have been great to work with Martin Yates!